Serious People…

ETA: I notice that as I wrote this John has come up with more on Lindsay Graham’s ongoing star turn theater of the absurdly malicious.  Must be a harmonic convergence or something…

_______________

It’s getting sad, really, watching Senator Graham twist and turn as he tries to find some way of avoiding being Lugared next election.

Here he is on how to avoid the damage of the sequester:

“Here’s my belief: let’s take Obamacare and put it on the table,” he said. “If you want to look at ways to find $1.2 trillion in savings over the next decade, let’s look at Obamacare. Let’s don’t destroy the military and just cut blindly across the board.”

Here’s the Congressional Budget Office on what the budget would look like without the health care reform measure that is the signature accomplishment of President Obama’s first term:

Assuming that H.R. 6079 is enacted near the beginning of fiscal year 2013, CBO and JCT estimate that, on balance, the direct spending and revenue effects of enacting that legislation would cause a net increase in federal budget deficits of $109 billion over the 2013–2022 period. Specifically, we estimate that H.R. 6079 would reduce direct spending by $890 billion and reduce revenues by $1 trillion between 2013 and 2022, thus adding $109 billion to federal budget deficits over that period.

So forget the fact that there is exactly zero chance that the President or his party would acquiesce in this latest ham-fisted South Carolinian attempt at the nullification of duly passed federal law. Pass over in silence the fact that this kind of nonsense is exactly what is needed to continue to paint the GOP as the party of rigidity, incapable of anything other than fighting the last war…

Matthias_Robinson_Charge_of_the_Light_Brigade_1864

…and ignore all of the reasons that the utterance of this crap may play great on Fox News — and that such theater is exactly what (some) Republicans themselves have noticed constrains the party’s ability to speak past its dwindling core.

Instead, do what is sadly laughable in our politics today:  pay attention to the actual policy.

If you do, you’ll notice that a sitting, senior senator just proposed deficit reduction by increasing the deficit.*

That this fact doesn’t earn immediate ridicule from the mainstream media — and not just us DFH bloggers — is a pretty precise measure of how deep is the sh*t in which our polity now wallows.  To be sure, this is hardly the most risible, or most corrosive of Graham’s recent performances; nor that of the GOP at large.  But the sheer bald obviousness of the big lie here gets my goat. Does he think we’re that stupid?

Don’t answer that.

*I do know that Graham’s statement could suggest something other than the repeal examined in the CBO analysis cited above.  But every GOP proposal on health care that I can recall that calls for something other than a total reversal of Obamacare makes the fiscal picture worse.  So unless and an until Sen. Graham advances a specific plan, I’ll default to the existing corpus of Republican “ideas” on the matter.

Image: Matthais Robinson, Charge of the Light Brigade, 1864.

103 replies
  1. 1
    BGinCHI says:

    To answer your question, the Southern Queen is banking on the fact that SC Republicans are every bit that fucking stupid.

    I mean, they elected him before, didn’t they?

  2. 2
    raven says:

    You must be physic.

  3. 3
    efgoldman says:

    The two of them – Southern Belle and Grandpa Walnuts – are embarrassments to their electorate, except the people who voted for them – and Cruz makes three – are beyond embarrassment, as is the GOBP.

  4. 4
    raven says:

    @efgoldman: Don’t leave out my congressman.

  5. 5
    Bobby Thomson says:

    Too bad, I’m answering anyway. “We,” meaning enough of the people who actually pay attention to politics, are that stupid. Witness the fact that virtually all push back to Graham accepts his proposal at face value. And of course, mass publics are fucking stupid enough to reelect Junior Bush, so yeah. Graham’s not going out on a limb assuming stupidity.

  6. 6
    Bowser's Clown Copter says:

    @BGinCHI: they elected Jim DeMint a few times, so yes, they really are that nutty.

  7. 7
    Ted & Hellen says:

    Tom, any theories on why it is that we almost NEVER hear any prominent Democrats, including the President, state the above in the clear, concise, unambiguous language that you used.

    It is not hard to understand. They just don’t do it.

    The democratic party, with a few minor exceptions, refuses to play the messaging game as though they mean it.

    Why?

  8. 8
    robotswillstealyourjobs says:

    Uh, am I missing something here? The quoted bit says spending will go down by 890 billion and revenues will go down by 1 trillion. That’s a deficit increase, not decrease.

  9. 9
    BGinCHI says:

    @Bobby Thomson: There must be a Mencken quote for this….

  10. 10

    Does he think we’re that stupid?

    He’s that stupid, and he believes he’s the smartest man around gifted with perfect knowledge, so… yeah.

    @Ted & Hellen:
    You are yet again complaining that Obama does not do something that he does all the time. The man can’t get credit for anything.

  11. 11
    efgoldman says:

    @raven:

    Don’t leave out my congressman.

    The first really intense exposure to Congress that a lot of people had, was the various Watergate hearings in the 70s. Every minute of both the Senate and House committee meetings was broadcast. I remember thinking, when some Republican or other asked questions or made statements that controverted truth and common sense, in defense of Nixon: “These guys are members of Congress and Senators. How does someone that stupid ever run, let alone get elected…”
    Silly me. I was young and stupid. Now I’m old and cynical.

  12. 12
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    You are yet again complaining that Obama does not do something that he does all the time. The man can’t get credit for anything.

    Please link to the fireside chats with graphs and charts and concise language such as Tom’s in which it is laid out like this. I’ll wait.

    I am also referring to Dems on the chat shows who just do not seem to know how to argue back with clear, concise language such as Southern Belle uses in laying out his lies and obfuscations.

  13. 13
    Litlebritdifrnt says:

    Not one of these weasles ever talk to the root of the problem. Health care costs, not insurance, not medicaid, not medicare. It is the skyrocketing costs of healthcare that is the problem. The health care industry is like the oil industry, they keep pushing the price of gas up a couple of pennies every now and again and get people used to the higher cost. They never explain it, they just get people used to that higher price, so that when the next couple of pennies go on people just shrug and accept it.

    There is a reason that the US spends the most on health care per capita and gets the lousiest results, because fewer and fewer people are being charged larger and larger amounts without ever saying anything about it.

    I saw a study the other day showing that the highest health care costs charged are in the last few years of a persons life. I saw that up close a year ago when a hospital were preparing a 90 year old man who was on the verge of death for a quadruple bye-pass surgery. Luckily for him he died before they got the chance to charge him $100K for completely unnecessary surgery. Take the profit out of health care and you solve the problem.

  14. 14
    geg6 says:

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    But if T&H didn’t lie about what Obama does or doesn’t say (and in this case, he says this very thing constantly and consistently), he wouldn’t have anything to say at all. And he’s so impressed with the sound of his own voice, that would give him a sad. And we wouldn’t want that, would we? Oh, wait…

  15. 15
    eemom says:

    @Ted & Hellen:

    Southern Belle

    I’ve been wondering about this. There are those who frown upon such references to the gender identification and/or sexual orientation of the senator from South Carolina. I take it you are not one of them?

    As is well known, I am far from a PC police chief myself. I am honestly just curious.

  16. 16
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Ted & Hellen: “Graphs and charts” don’t persuade anybody who isn’t already open to the idea that the way they feel about an issue ought to be related to having information about it.

  17. 17
    raven says:

    @eemom: I think it’s talking about OUR Southern Belle. I think.

  18. 18
    Mr Stagger Lee says:

    I suspect before long, Lindsay Graham will campaign in a Confederate Uniform, with pictures of Lee and Jackson in the background, and expound on how Great-great-granddaddy Graham died carrying the rebel flag up Seminary Hill during Pickett’s Charge, but still that won’t help him, then he will go full Pitchfork Ben Tillman, but he is still toast in the state known as too small for a republic and too large for an lunatic asylum.

  19. 19
    BGinCHI says:

    @FlipYrWhig: T&H thinks The American President is a documentary of a utopian future.

    The pulpit, it is bully.

  20. 20
    1bb3 says:

    Drama Queen.

  21. 21
    BGinCHI says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt: This.

    Next it will be education for profit. Wait…..

  22. 22
    raven says:

    @BGinCHI: “T&H thinks” Hahahahahah. I see what you did there!

  23. 23
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt: Bob Somerby at The Daily Howler is not everyone’s taste, especially when he gets hold of something idiosyncratic and then spends weeks flogging it as the thing everyone should or shouldn’t be talking about at every moment. But one of his best points on the health care debate was to highlight that paying that much money per capita for no better health outcomes than nations paying significantly less means, by definition, that we’re all collectively being “looted.” Money goes out, bupkes comes in, like no other place on earth. Pretty horrifying when you think of it that way. Also pretty hard to fix, because the only thing worse than getting hosed by your insurance company is not having insurance in the first place.

  24. 24
    MikeJ says:

    @FlipYrWhig: The problem is that healthcare in the US is bad for people on average, and very, very good for the few that get it. Nobody wants to get the second best care possible so that somebody they never met can get basic care.

  25. 25
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @BGinCHI: I think it’s fair to say that “messaging” and “communications” and all that should be better. But often the suggestions of how to make them better either (1) involve things that already happen, or (2) aren’t convincingly better than what already happens.

    Giving a speech with charts and graphs isn’t going to win anyone over who isn’t already won. Talking about health care reform as something that actually helps the deficit has been happening for years. But people don’t believe it. They don’t get the concept of how spending money up front can save money later. When it comes to money, people in general are extremely stupid. I’m one of them.

    Also, when Republicans say “the deficit” they mean “spending on ungrateful, lazy moochers,” so by definition anything progressive that helps struggling people _must_ increase “the deficit,” and pointing out that that’s not what “the deficit” is will fall on deaf ears for eternity.

  26. 26
    AHH onna Droid says:

    The art for this post, she is perfection.

  27. 27
    BGinCHI says:

    @FlipYrWhig: Agreed completely on needing better messaging. That’s the point though: it always needs to be responsive and sharp and smart. It’s a fantasy to think you can deliver a message that will end the entire argument at once.

    I wish we used the word “investment” more for what the government does when it’s spending wisely for the future.

  28. 28
    Redshirt says:

    Serious People < Tomorrow People

  29. 29
    eemom says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Bob Somerby at The Daily Howler

    mercy, is that old lunatic-savant still spluttering? I would’ve thought he’d have launched himself into orbit by now.

    Srsly, I used to read him, until it just got too nerve-wracking worrying about his blood pressure.

  30. 30
    Julia Grey says:

    Lindsey knows exactly what he is doing and why. “2014” is tattooed on the inside of his eyelids. He thinks it is possible to avoid being primaried by the Tea Party loons.

    He is mistaken.

    He is NOT stupid, just desperate, a state unto which even smart people sometimes succumb, and he does not, in fact, believe everything he says in public. But he says it anyway. Which makes him a colossal dick. Yet he still thinks of himself as being one of the Nicest People. So, in a ways, he IS delusional, just not in the usual Republican fashion.

    As to calling him affectionate little names, that’s just for fun amongst ourselves. He’s apparently been very discreet or behaved himself as Republicans say His Kind should, and it’s not our place to be nasty about his perceived preferences as a political tool anyway. Not only are we the Good Guys on this issue, it wouldn’t matter anyway, any more than Nikki Haley’s indiscretions mattered. Republicans choose not to believe what they don’t want to believe and/or will suddenly see the light on tolerance.

  31. 31
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @BGinCHI: My pet cause is, or would be, trying to find ways to adapt the household analogies that the liberal blogosphere always seethes about. Like how not borrowing money at low rates to stimulate the economy is like having a chance to refinance your mortgage and refusing to take it. Or how even when things get tough and you need to take a long hard look at where your money is going, you don’t want to pull your kid out of college unless you’ve exhausted a lot of other options: in other words, not all spending of borrowed money is frivolous. Or how when you’ve paid only the minimum on your credit card statement to get through a lean month, and you’re doing better now and trying to catch up again, you shouldn’t be so aggressive in paying down the balance that you can’t keep paying your rent: in other words, sometimes it’s a bad idea to concentrate on paying off debt when the crisis is past but money is still tight.

    Everyone always says that equating the nation’s finances and personal finances is dumb, but we’re never going to stop people from making that connection, so let’s try to use it to our advantage once in a while.

  32. 32
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @eemom:

    I’ve been wondering about this. There are those who frown upon such references to the gender identification and/or sexual orientation of the senator from South Carolina. I take it you are not one of them?

    Eemom, as you know I am gay.

    To me, it’s beyond reasonable doubt that Dear Linds is a big closet queen. The first time I saw him on TV many years ago my very reliable gaydar went off the charts, for one thing.

    So he’s a gay man in a homophobic party, living in shame in the closet while he agitates for the conservative agenda. Fair game.

    D.C. is so hypocritical about this. Beltway types are always obsessing about “character” issues. But when someone they know well is living in the very psychologically damaging and self-hating world of the closet, they’re cool with that.

    wtf?

  33. 33
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @eemom: To be honest, I haven’t checked him out with any regularity since he was being a stubborn contrarian about Trayvon Martin. But his health care stuff was solid.

  34. 34
    Redshift says:

    @BGinCHI:

    I wish we used the word “investment” more for what the government does when it’s spending wisely for the future.

    I agree. There are still way too many Democrats who accept that the “argument” about taxes is lost, rather than recognizing that it’s only lost if you let the conversation be about taxes in isolation.

    However, I’ve been pretty pleased with the increased use of “we believe in paying our bills.” I think that gets the point across pretty well.

  35. 35
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    But one of his best points on the health care debate was to highlight that paying that much money per capita for no better health outcomes than nations paying significantly less means, by definition, that we’re all collectively being “looted.” Money goes out, bupkes comes in, like no other place on earth

    And we have yet to hear this from Obama’s mouth. Natch.

    It is one of the many unspoken truths inside the Beltway, the rules of which O abides by carefully.

  36. 36
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Redshift: @BGinCHI: Obama, FWIW, says “investment” all the time. So much so that there was a recent montage from The Daily Show (IIRC) in which Fox News was smirking about how when Democrats said “investment” all they really meant was “spending.”

  37. 37
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Yet another tack not taken by Obama, who is to busy explaining the veracity of republican talking points about how the deficit must be tackled NOW.

  38. 38
    Cassidy says:

    The recipe for a good weekend: a bottle of Jack Daniels Honey Whiskey, Ginger Ale, and

    Ted & Hellen Says:

    Jack be nimble, Jack be quick… no, no… Peter Piper picked a… no, that’s not it either. What’s the one about pie?

    I’ve also added pizza and orange creamsicle cookies, but those are optional.

    Look, pedobear is going to come on here and say some dumb shit, in every thread, about how it’s Obama’s fault. One of our FPer’s can come on here and bitch about how they burnt their grilled cheese and that mommy’s mistake will somehow make into being Obama’s fault. It’s a worn out shtick of a one trick pony.

  39. 39
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Ted & Hellen: Of course when Bill Clinton tried to do something more progressive with health care, the insurance companies threw a shit fit _and won_. People hate insurance companies, and they still liked the insurance company position better than Big Gummint In Mah Med’cine Cab’nit. Aggressive rhetoric doesn’t mean diddlysquat if you lose the debate anyway.

  40. 40
    Mandalay says:

    @eemom:

    There are those who frown upon such references to the gender identification and/or sexual orientation of the senator from South Carolina.

    I am not keen on that approach because it is small minded, and detracts from whatever valid criticism you are trying to make. By analogy, if you wanted to be critical of (say) Gingrich or Christie, what’s the point in calling them fat? It would say more about you than them.

    But in this thread, and Cole’s preceding thread, Graham has been referred to as “Southern Queen”, “Huckleberry Closet Case” and “Miss Lindsey”, and everyone seems fine with that, which I find surprising.

  41. 41
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Ted & Hellen: That’s not just “Republican talking points,” though. There are a lot of true-believing deficit hawks among Democrats, some of which are unquestionably liberal, like (one whose statements on the subject I happened to read within the past few years) Michael Capuano, D-MA. Fault Obama if you like, but there’s virtually no politician at any point on the spectrum from center to left who says anything even close to what you’d like, and at a certain point you might want to think about why that would be — whether no one talks like that because of endemic corruption and a conspiracy of silence, or, perhaps, because they’ve considered it and concluded that it’s just not a winning argument.

  42. 42
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Aggressive rhetoric doesn’t mean diddlysquat if you lose the debate anyway.

    Well of course it doesn’t. That’s why you don’t lose. With reality/truth and the willingness to meet force with force, you are not going to lose.

    Aggressive as in “factual and consistent and unyielding” is only going to win the day. Dems always, including the Clinton initiative on health care, are all too ready to argue from the Republican point of view. They allow them to set the paramteres of the debate, always trying to be civil to barbarians.

    Fuck that.

    Please link even once to where Obama has ever spoken aloud the simple truth that Americans pay twice as much as other western countries for lesser health outcomes. Please indicate where he has said that.

  43. 43
    Cassidy says:

    Ted & Hellen Says:

    I’d kick a nun in the crotch for a slice of sweet pie right about now.

    Oh no, not the nuns. They’re good people. If you’re going to go after the Catholics, go for the priests.

  44. 44
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Cassidy:

    I’ve also added pizza and orange creamsicle cookies, but those are optional.

    It is fascinating that even with your alleged pie filter on you are unable to simply ignore me. You simply must comment.

    I acknowledge your love, but sadly it is unrequited. Please turn on the filter for real.

  45. 45
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Mandalay:

    But in this thread, and Cole’s preceding thread, Graham has been referred to as “Southern Queen”, “Huckleberry Closet Case” and “Miss Lindsey”, and everyone seems fine with that, which I find surprising.

    Oh please, self righteous one. He is a known closet case. This is an effective way of mocking him in general. It’s very human, and it’s not over the line. As soon as Linds respects himself and acts accordingly by coming out of the closet, perhaps he can begin to expect the same in return.

  46. 46
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Cassidy:

    Wow. You have not one shred of self awareness.

    Even with your pie filter on (allegedly) you are as a moth to my flame.

    Sorry, we will never copulate. Let it go.

  47. 47
    Mandalay says:

    @Ted & Hellen:

    The first time I saw him on TV many years ago my very reliable gaydar went off the charts, for one thing.

    But is your gaydar ever (and I mean “ever”) wrong? Any false positives? Any false negatives?

    So he’s a gay man in a homophobic party, living in shame in the closet while he agitates for the conservative agenda. Fair game.

    As a hypothetical, would he also be “fair game” if he was (say) an athlete, or a media personality, or a Democrat? Or is he “fair game” only because he is a Republican?

    These are not loaded questions…I have mixed feelings on these issues myself.

  48. 48
    Cassidy says:

    42 Ted & Hellen Says:

    Pie is the cornerstone of any nutritious breakfast.

    43 Ted & Hellen Says:

    Stick your thumb, deep in that pie. Pull it out, stick it in your eye.
    Reply

    44 Ted & Hellen Says:

    While my wife was out of town, our rabbi’s wife borrowed a fancy pie pan. It was returned a few days later filled with an apple pie. When my wife asked where the pie came from, I told her it was baked by our rabbi’s wife, who said she never returns something without filling it up.

    “Good, you should let her borrow our checkbook,” she replied.

    Someone likes pie way too much.

  49. 49
    raven says:

    @Ted & Hellen: Did you get a chance to look at the profiles of the people your boy murdered or were you to busy with a candlelight vigil protesting how the cops made him kill himself instead of surrendering?

  50. 50
    Cassidy says:

    @Mandalay: I think you’re running into a couple of different issues here. For one, is he fair game? That’s not a question with a definitive answer. The reality is everyone has their own line and you can’t set that for them. Is it fair to ridicule him? Personally, I don’t think it’s horrible. One man’s shame is not a good enough reason to condemn millions of others to second class citizen status. Considering the harm he has done to this country, no it’s not a bad thing.

    Secondly, it’s about identity politics. Republicans love trying to sound manly, but all it does make the ones like Graham sound ridiculous and give T&H a little shiver up his spine. Constant ridicule breaks through and cracks the facade.

  51. 51
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Mandalay:

    But is your gaydar ever (and I mean “ever”) wrong? Any false positives? Any false negatives?

    I am unaware of any case in which my gaydar, which I believe to be a very natural human phenomenon, has been mistaken. BTW…for the same reason, I believe Tim Tebow to be gay. Mark my word for when he finally stumbles out in however long it takes. :)

    As a hypothetical, would he also be “fair game” if he was (say) an athlete, or a media personality, or a Democrat?

    Of course. I think the fact of living in the closet is inherently a character/health issue, and tells the observer a lot about the person in question. NOT that they are in the closet, but that they are HIDING THEIR NATURAL ORIENTATION AND ARE ASHAMED OF IT.

    Linds is one of those at the head of the line because he spouts and propogates the right wing line.

  52. 52
    Cassidy says:

    @raven: Was that Obama’s fault too? I can’t tell; I’ve got pedobear pied at home.

  53. 53
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Cassidy:

    When will you address my question: Why are you unable to ignore me even when pied? Does that not defeat the purpose of your little filter?

    Google self awareness.

    I am beginning to suspect that Linds is not the only one in the closet.

  54. 54
    raven says:

    @Cassidy: Nah,sweetheart was all torn up because he didn’t like the fact that I wasn’t all that concerned HOW Dorner died.It launched all that anti-military bullshit it loves to spout.

  55. 55
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @raven:

    Fuck you, you dishonest piece of shit.

    Google “fair trial,” then google “police state.”

    Then google “militaristic loser who can’t get over the fact that he once served in the military during another stupid U.S. war, and keeps bringing it up all the time.”

  56. 56
    Cassidy says:

    @raven: Gotcha. It hasn’t visited that in a while. Maybe it realized it’s spiel was getting a little dry and had to switch back to older material.

    And what’s the issue? How Dorner died is that he shot himself in the head. That’s not even controversial.

  57. 57
    raven says:

    @Ted & Hellen: All he had to do was surrender. Answer my question you punk ass motherfucker. Did you read about the people he fucking murdered? You don’t give a fuck do you?

  58. 58
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Cassidy:

    This is fascinating!

    Assidly is responding to MY posts, which he claims to have pie’d by reason of my vileness, b responding to another commenter who interacts with me.”

    Riveting psychodrama!

  59. 59
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Cassidy:

    It hasn’t visited that in a while. Maybe it realized it’s spiel was getting a little dry and had to switch back to older material.

    I don’t have to visit you. You’re constantly humping my leg.

  60. 60
    cmorenc says:

    I was stuck for a few minutes this afternoon in a place where Fox News was on, and Chris Wallace was interviewing Lindsey Graham. One of the truly scariest parts of the interview was when they were discussing the issue of whether it should be allowable for drones to kill US citizens without any prior judicial determination that they were enemy combatants posing a clear terrorist threat to the US. Graham responded that the pre-9/11 notion of treating terrorism as a law enforcement issue was a terrible, wrongheaded idea, that Al Quaeda and terrorists should be regarded as enemy combatants for the military to deal with, not as criminal suspects for judges to deal with, and we’re at war and judges shouldn’t be allowed to get in the way of military judgment on how to conduct it. The most chilling part was that Graham went on to say that although so far the drone strikes had only been conducted against terrorists in locations abroad, that it should also be ok to go after US citizens within this country if they were enemy combatents.

    It was clear that Graham did not believe any sort of judicial process was necessary to go after anyone who was Al Quaeda or an “enemy combatent” within the US, even if they were a citizen of the US. It was one of the most chilling embraces of right-wing military authoritarianism I’ve ever seen from a prominent US politician. Graham would be perfectly comfortable as a major government figure in a classic South American military authoritarian dictatorship.

    As irritating as grumpy old man McCain is, Lindsey Graham is many times the more malevolent figure, and would do far more damage if he was somehow ever POTUS.

  61. 61
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @raven:

    Hysterical is ugly, even on an ugly douche like you.

    Fuck off and google “authoritarianism.”

    Then google “dry drunk rage issues.”

  62. 62
    raven says:

    @Cassidy: No, that’s when it thought the horrible cops willie-petered his ass. Sugar plum wanted more cops to die trying to talk him into surrendering so he could get “a fair trial”.

  63. 63
  64. 64
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @cmorenc:

    It was clear that Graham did not believe any sort of judicial process was necessary to go after anyone who was Al Quaeda or an “enemy combatent” within the US, even if they were a citizen of the US. It was one of the most chilling embraces of right-wing military authoritarianism I’ve ever seen from a prominent US politician. Graham would be perfectly comfortable as a major government figure in a classic South American military authoritarian dictatorship.

    Raven wholly approves of authoritarianism. Ask him. He’ll tell you how he fought for our right to be murdered by the police prior to trial. He’ll explain how due process and the importance of the system of justice is for suckers who actually believe in that fag stuff. He’ll even tell you how he don’t need to see no fucking evidence.

  65. 65
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @raven:

    Why would I be tingly? You’re the psycho who is obsessing. Do you touch yourself while you read those profiles? Tell me, do you watch all of the Law and Order type tv shows?

  66. 66
    Cassidy says:

    @raven: They weren’t going to talk him out. They wouldn’t have been able to. I think it watches too much tv.

  67. 67
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @cmorenc: That kind of view from Graham is also a reason why it might not be a good idea to invite the Senate to make any actual new policy about drones and targeted assassinations, because it could make crystal-clear legal things that are now shady. Vesting such decision-making powers in the president, the executive branch, and their consciences is bad news. But codifying them with the input of your Grahams and McCains… that could be even worse.

  68. 68
    raven says:

    @Ted & Hellen:

    “Unfortunately, this is a necessary evil that I do not enjoy but must partake and complete for substantial change to occur within the LAPD and reclaim my name.”

    Read more: http://ktla.com/2013/02/12/rea.....z2LCyOmdXK
    Read more at http://ktla.com/2013/02/12/rea.....v1hRoVq.99

  69. 69
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Cassidy:

    They weren’t going to talk him out. They wouldn’t have been able to. I think it watches too much tv.

    You don’t have to talk to me thru Craven, darling. I’m here for you.

  70. 70
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @raven:

    Do you know anything at all about civil procedure?

    Guys like you are the ones that make it suck for the few intelligent people in the military.

  71. 71
    raven says:

    HUMINT will be utilized to collect personal schedules of targets. I never had the opportunity to have a family of my own, I’m terminating yours. XXXX, XXXX, XXXX, and BOR members Look your wives/husbands and surviving children directly in the face and tell them the truth as to why your children are dead.

    Read more: http://ktla.com/2013/02/12/rea.....z2LCz8Y75s
    Read more at http://ktla.com/2013/02/12/rea.....v1hRoVq.99

  72. 72
    raven says:

    @Ted & Hellen: I know a loudmouth punk when I see one. Bye bye.

  73. 73
    Ted & Hellen says:

    Can someone call the psych unit? We have a Code Nutjob here.

  74. 74
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @raven:

    I know a loudmouth punk when I see one. Bye bye.

    Well, you should by now. You see him every time you shave. Assuming, of course you shave, which now that I think about it…

    You used the word “punk.” Such butch fiercitude have I never seen.

  75. 75
    Cassidy says:

    @raven: @raven: Hey dude, your tilting at windmills, man. It’s got this fictional narrative in it’s head, part white privilege, part bigot and all narcissist, and things like facts and reality ain’t going to crack it. Seriously, when you look at everything pedobear has said, it’s nothing more than your usual white people problems suburban bullshit. Don’t waste your time. It lives in a bubble.

  76. 76
    raven says:

    @Cassidy: I’m cool, watchin my Illini.

  77. 77
    Ted & Hellen says:

    Glad you guys are cool and everything. Me too.

    Have a great evening.

  78. 78
    doofus says:

    @FlipYrWhig: Insurance? Try finding out the price for a routine colonoscopy from your doctor.

  79. 79
    Todd says:

    Cole, Ted and Hellen are killing your blog. Dude is a one note troll.

  80. 80
    Cassidy says:

    @Todd: Cole don’t care, man. He checked out months ago.

  81. 81
    raven says:

    @Todd: IS killing.

  82. 82
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Todd:

    Cole pays me to post here. I keep telling you folks and no one believes me. He buys velvet paintings from me, too, for big bucks. As do four other Bj’ers but I can’t reveal their names for fear for their lives.

    Oh, and Todd: Why don’t you do what Assidy is unable to, ignore me. You guys are pathetic.

  83. 83
    raven says:

    Just like Illinois IS killing Northwestern!

  84. 84
    gene108 says:

    I find cutting our military budget, when hordes of Canadians are amassing at our northern border waiting to invade, at the first sign of weakness, whilst the Mexican army gathers at our southern border and hordes of Pacific salmon, whales and sea lions are just waiting to execute a flanking maneuver with the Mexican army to seize California, to be ill-timed.

    We are after all a country beset by enemies on all sides. Canadians to the north, Mexicans to the south, sea lions to the west and Atlantic cod to the east.

    Our huge military is the only thing defending our freedom from the tyranny of our neighbors.

    Best to ruin whatever hope 30 million people have of having affordable access to healthcare, than risk our freedom by cutting one cent from the military budget.

    We are beset on all sides by enemies.

  85. 85
    Anne Laurie says:

    @cmorenc:

    One of the truly scariest parts of the interview was when they were discussing the issue of whether it should be allowable for drones to kill US citizens without any prior judicial determination that they were enemy combatants posing a clear terrorist threat to the US. Graham responded that the pre-9/11 notion of treating terrorism as a law enforcement issue was a terrible, wrongheaded idea, that Al Quaeda and terrorists should be regarded as enemy combatants for the military to deal with, not as criminal suspects for judges to deal with, and we’re at war and judges shouldn’t be allowed to get in the way of military judgment on how to conduct it. The most chilling part was that Graham went on to say that although so far the drone strikes had only been conducted against terrorists in locations abroad, that it should also be ok to go after US citizens within this country if they were enemy combatents.

    It was clear that Graham did not believe any sort of judicial process was necessary to go after anyone who was Al Quaeda or an “enemy combatent” within the US, even if they were a citizen of the US. It was one of the most chilling embraces of right-wing military authoritarianism I’ve ever seen from a prominent US politician. Graham would be perfectly comfortable as a major government figure in a classic South American military authoritarian dictatorship.

    To be fair, that’s the postion of the DoJ right now, so it’s not like the next President from either party is going to get a lot of disagreement on the issue from the Sensible Professionals.

  86. 86
    Baud says:

    @Anne Laurie:

    When has the DOJ said that principle applies to people located in this country? They may have, but I’m not aware of it.

  87. 87
    Jay C says:

    @gene108:

    Well, I’d say at least one of our threatened fronts – the Atlantic seaboard – is probably going to be safe for a long tome time to come: after years-long protracted campaigns, our war against the Atlantic Cod seems to be drawing to a close: and we’ve won.

  88. 88
    raven says:

    @Jay C: That’s some sad shit.

  89. 89
    Suffern ACE says:

    I do have to give the military chiefs credit. We may not actually know how to set up stable d remocracies after deposing their leaders. But we do know how to design budgets that once doubled can never be scaled back without making us vulnerable to amphibious landings in Miami and Los Angeles. It’s a point of genius that is rare. I think similar folks work for homeland security. It’s full of waste and foolish ideas! But if you get rid of those foolish ideas, our buildings get blown up.

  90. 90
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Ted & Hellen:

    FactCheck.org : Obama’s Health Care News Conference, July 23, 2009:

    Obama: And we know that we’re spending on average, we here in the United States are spending about $6,000 more than other advanced countries where they’re just as healthy.

    The linked fact-check piece doesn’t agree with the figure he cites, but it certainly indicates he has in fact made such a comparison at least once.

  91. 91
    Chris says:

    @Suffern ACE:

    I honestly don’t know how the fuck one scales back a security state like this one. The last attempt made was the Church Committee hearings, and the legacy of that isn’t really promising. We might not actually make any meaningful changes in the security state until the U.S. falls from superpower status, whenever that is. And even then I’m not sure.

  92. 92
    Djur says:

    @robotswillstealyourjobs: Yeah, that’s the CBO’s estimate for what happens if the “Repeal of Obamacare Act” is passed.

  93. 93
    A Humble Lurker says:

    @Ted & Hellen:

    Well of course it doesn’t. That’s why you don’t lose. With reality/truth and the willingness to meet force with force, you are not going to lose.

    And lemon drops fall from the sky when it rains and milkshakes fall when it snows. And Cole never has to beg for money for animals treated inhumanely and the good guys always win.

    Sweet Jesus, kid. You don’t really believe that, do you? That’s some naïveté right there.

  94. 94
    Scamp Dog says:

    If you do, you’ll notice that a sitting, senior senator just proposed deficit reduction by increasing the deficit.*

    Given that all the non-health care-related deficit reduction plans involve tax cuts, and nobody thinks that’s worth noticing, it shouldn’t be a surprise that health care “deficit reduction” works the same way.

  95. 95
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @A Humble Lurker:

    Wait, don’t tell me! You’re a…pragmatist! You capitulate even before negotiations begin! You could work for the Obama administration.

    I believe what I wrote, because it’s true.

    Problem is, such a method has rarely been tried in this country. Kinda, sorta regarding WW2, but other than that…not so much.

  96. 96
    A Humble Lurker says:

    @Ted & Hellen:
    Pragmatist? I don’t know about that, but I do know I’m old enough to have figured out the world doesn’t become sunshine and lollipops if I just want it enough.

    This explains your philosophy about those kids Sandusky abused, I guess. If they’d really not wanted to be abused, they wouldn’t have been. Because the world is just, and if you happened to be suffering, it’s totally your fault.

  97. 97
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @A Humble Lurker:

    the world doesn’t become sunshine and lollipops if I just want it enough.

    Guess you missed the whole part about meeting “force with force,” then, didn’t you, dishonest numb nuts.

    If they’d really not wanted to be abused, they wouldn’t have been. Because the world is just, and if you happened to be suffering, it’s totally your fault.

    Hoo boy, yeah, that’s exactly what I said; that’s exactly what I meant. Your fantasist summaries of what other comments write are almost as left field as Mennoszine’s. Again though, so interesting how certain of you Bots are obsessed with pedophilia.

  98. 98
    A Humble Lurker says:

    @Ted & Hellen:

    Guess you missed the whole part about meeting “force with force,” then, didn’t you, dishonest numb nuts.

    Ah, name calling. Always a sign of a poster with a strong argument. Since you wanna be obtuse, I’ll rephrase: the world doesn’t turn into sunshine and lollipops if I just apply enough force. Or are you under the impression you can scream down a hurricane? Because do try it, if you are, and report back the results.

    Hoo boy, yeah, that’s exactly what I said; that’s exactly what I meant. Your fantasist summaries of what other comments write are almost as left field as Mennoszine’s. Again though, so interesting how certain of you Bots are obsessed with pedophilia.

    Is this, or is this not you?

  99. 99
    Bob h says:

    I’m guessing Lindsay’s queen-liness does not play well with many S.Carolingians, and he has to be extra macho to compensate.

  100. 100
    Cassidy says:

    @Ted & Hellen: I don’t ignore you because I enjoy mocking you. You’re a small, pathetic bigot who shouldn’t be allowed around children.

  101. 101
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Cassidy:

    I’m in bed with 17 of them right now. They all say hello to Daddy Assidy.

  102. 102
    Cassidy says:

    Ted & Hellen Says:

    Remember Warrant? That was a good band. Any band with a song about pie knows what’s important.

    Amazing.

  103. 103
    Lurking Canadian says:

    If somebody did ask Graham, he’d explain that the CBO estimates are not trustworthy, because the CBO is a well-known pro-Democrat mouthpiece. Therefore, there is no point asking.

Comments are closed.