Knowing that you lied, straight-faced

I hate it when people lie to me. Hate it. Hate it. Hate it.

I don’t hate lying in principle, but I hate it that anyone think they could pull the wool over my eyes like that. Who the fuck do they think they’re dealing with?

I was at a department meeting yesterday where one department member repeatedly lied to advance his cause (which I more or less also supported, to the extent that I cared about the issue at all). Some of the lies were non-quantifiable (they were essentially inaccurate value judgements), but two of them were things that were checkable (one involved numbers, the other some kind of university policy).

I pointed this out to a few other people in the department (not in front of the person who told the lies) and they didn’t care at all. Nearly all of my coworkers are tote-bagging milquetoasts, so they express everything in the Brooks/Dionne-style “while I disagree with my good friend blah blah blah”…but I couldn’t even get them to agree that the guy lied his ass off to their faces. Even when I showed them the evidence.

I have to ask…do you think most people hate being lied to? Or is it just me?

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197 replies
  1. 1
    Ted & Hellen says:

    Why didn’t you take your case directly to the alleged liar, in a non confrontational, non emotional manner?

    Taking the case to coworkers might well have jsut made you look like a douche.

  2. 2
    var says:

    Not just you. I think that’s why we’re here (here being Cole’s joint)

  3. 3
    Ted & Hellen says:

    Also, too, your coworkers may just have decided to follow President Obama’s example on lying, and to “look forward, no back.”

  4. 4
    Doug Galt says:

    @Ted & Hellen:

    I defer to your greater knowledge and experience of looking like a douche.

  5. 5
    chopper says:

    @Doug Galt:

    don’t argue with douchebags. he’ll just drag you down to his level and douche you with experience.

  6. 6
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Doug Galt:

    OK, but why didn’t you confront the alleged liar directly instead of gossiping behind his or her back?

  7. 7
    eemom says:

    omg, I LOVE that song.

    Tim Hardin’s heartbreaking, understated original, that is –not the POS abomination by Rod Stewart.

  8. 8
    Maude says:

    I can’t stand liars. There is no way to deal with them. They have decided to change reality to their liking.
    Some people don’t like to admit someone lied to them. Some may have an agenda that the lies fit into. Others may not want to confront the lies.
    Liars are incompetents.

  9. 9
    Face says:

    Depends on the lie. If the wife wants to tell me I look handsome with a receding hairline, I’ll tell her she looks great in that ugly-ass brown dress. Lies, but harmless.

    As for work, I would not call someone out, especially if the veracity of the statement is subjective in any way. You’re going to piss that person off, and they’re going to scrutinize everything you do and say from that point on. Not worth it.

  10. 10
    cathyx says:

    Most people hate confrontation, and that’s what would happen if they called him on it.

  11. 11
    Ted & Hellen says:

    Lying is OK!

    “Look forward, not back!”

  12. 12
    Dracula says:

    While I hate lying, I do like lying down.

  13. 13
    eemom says:

    Ah, I now see the post has a topic.

    Good question.

    Actually, my reaction to liars is less anger than incredulity. Lying is so against the grain for me that I just don’t get how people do it — and yes, especially straight-faced.

  14. 14
    gogol's wife says:

    @eemom:

    Gee, I love the Rod Stewart version. I’ve never heard the original.

    I hate being lied to. Unfortunately it’s an occupational hazard of the university (and I guess of most walks of life).

  15. 15
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    This whole retyping your info shit is a pain.

  16. 16
    Maude says:

    @eemom:
    Especially when they don’t need to lie. They seem to think that the lies pass muster.

  17. 17

    Nearly all of my coworkers are tote-bagging milquetoasts, so they express everything in the Brooks/Dionne-style “while I disagree with my good friend blah blah blah”…but I couldn’t even get them to agree that the guy lied his ass off to their faces. Even when I showed them the evidence.

    I have to ask…do you think most people hate being lied to? Or is it just me?

    Yes, I think most people hate being lied to when it affects them.

    When it’s a lie that is directed towards or affects others or the workplace, I think most people don’t give a damn.

    I wish they did. This world would be a lot better if we called a liar, a liar right to their faces, if need be.

    The world would be an even better place if we also instantly threw a pie into the face of anyone who started a sentence by saying, “I’m sorry if any of you were offended by my words/actions/thoughtlessness/etc…”

  18. 18
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    Rod Stewart this morning?

    I think people are conditioned to be polite. In most instances this is a good thing, but it creates an opportunity to for someone who is willing to push the boundaries of polite behavior by, for example, lying. Most people will let many lies go rather than endure the social disruption of calling the person out on them. If someone says he was late because his car wouldn’t start but it is fairly obvious that he is hungover and probably overslept, why bother to call it out? Most ot the time we go along and accept the little lies as social grease. The challenge is determining when the lie is big or offensive enough that it needs to be called out.

  19. 19
    Ted & Hellen says:

    Are we to believe that NO ONE at BJ has ever told a work-related lie?

    I call utter bullshit.

    I will go first: I have told non-earth shattering work-related lies.

    Who’s next?

  20. 20
    taylormattd says:

    No, they don’t like being lied to.

    And in fact, that is what leads them to take these milquetoast positions. If it is just a difference of opinion, then the other person isn’t a fucking liar.

    So this reduces uncomfortable feelings two-fold: “I don’t have to feel all nervous or pissed off at the liar, because he’s not really lying”; and it essentially eliminates the possibility of conflict between the person and the liar.

  21. 21
    Capri says:

    If your university environment is anything like mine, I wouldn’t assume somebody misstating policy was deliberately lying. Policies change all the time at lots of levels, department, school and central university, and most of the times the changes are communicated poorly. There are some policies at the institution where I work that are so murky and nebulous that if I asked 5 faculty members what the policy was, I’d get 5 different answers. Then there are the non-policy “everybody knows” type stuff – we do things because “everybody knows” that the provost does things a certain way.

    Best way to handle situation – stand up in the faculty meeting right after the person misstated the policy and numbers and say that this isn’t as you understood facts, could that person please explain further. It could even be that you were the person in error, not the original speaker.

    Worst way – gossip behind person’s back about how you hate liars to your co-workers, and then grouse on the internet when said co-workers don’t gather up their own pitchforks and torches to join your cause.

  22. 22
    Grumpy Code Monkey says:

    Knowing nothing about university politics, IMO the time to point this out would have been during the meeting; if you were aware that his statements were, shall we say, “at variance” with what you knew to be university policy or the actual numbers, then you could have pointed that out at the time, not in a “YOU LIE” kind of way, but more of an interrogative, “but isn’t the policy X instead of Y?” or “are you sure those numbers are correct, because they don’t jibe with what I remember”, at which point somebody could go to the source and clear things up.

    At least that’s how I believe things should work.

  23. 23
    Quicksand says:

    No Doug, it’s not just you. I think at least 47% of people hate being lied to.

  24. 24
    taylormattd says:

    @Ted & Hellen: oh ffs.

  25. 25
    Doug Galt says:

    @taylormattd:

    I think that is exactly right.

  26. 26
    Yutsano says:

    @Comrade Dread: I LIKE PIE!

  27. 27
    gbear says:

    @eemom:

    –not the POS abomination by Rod Stewart.

    Hey, it was two more albums before Rod became a POS. Every Picture Tells a Story was a really good album.

    I get most annoyed in the workplace when I’m in a meeting and I catch my boss lying, because I know who’s going to get stuck in the middle of the mess it creates. It also means I can’t always trust him when he’s talking to me.

  28. 28
    Li says:

    Most people love being lied to, as long as those lies support their own biases, beliefs and agendas.

    I submit as evidence, all of government and media.

  29. 29
    burnspbesq says:

    I don’t hate lying in principle

    Then you have no standing to object.

    I hate hate hate that when I read the title of this post, it was Rod Stewart’s voice that invaded my head.

  30. 30
    eemom says:

    @gogol’s wife:

    I think you might understand what I mean if you heard Hardin’s version.

    Nothing against Rod Stewart, per se. Well — sorta.

    (There, ya see? I can’t even lie about Rod Stewart not being a talentless warbling drama queen.)

  31. 31
    elmo says:

    I have to ask…do you think most people hate being lied to? Or is it just me?

    Well, let me check.

    ::brief online research::

    Yep, the Republican Party still exists. So that means at least a significant percentage of people don’t give a shit about being lied to.

  32. 32
    mistermix says:

    No, you’re not the only one.

    Also, for those of you who are questioning why he didn’t confront the guy, life isn’t TV. In an environment where lying is accepted, tolerated or ignored (hard to tell from this story which it is), if you confront the liar directly in private, that just gives the liar some knowledge they don’t need to have (i.e., that their lies didn’t work), calls you out as their enemy (because you’re challenging the lie), and gives them an incentive to go around telling lies about you. And those lies will be accepted, obviously, because everyone else either was fooled by or tolerated the lies.

    Better to take the temperature of the audience first.

  33. 33
    Doug Galt says:

    @Capri:

    Best way to handle situation – stand up in the faculty meeting right after the person misstated the policy and numbers as you understood them, could that person explain further.

    I pointed his lies at the meeting as well, politely. He just shrugged.

  34. 34
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @eemom:

    Eemom! You’re a LAWYER FFS! Are you telling me you’ve never told a work-related lie?

  35. 35
    eemom says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Rod Stewart this morning?

    omfg. You TOTALLY got even with me for The Clash, by thinking of him first. :(

  36. 36
    burnspbesq says:

    @gbear:

    Every Picture Tells a Story was a really good album.

    I agree, but the goodness is not primarily due to this song.

  37. 37
    Jewish Steel says:

    I have a good friend with whom I have a hard time spending time anymore. It’s not lying so much as the spinning of tall tales. Any topic you care to mention, he’s spent time with the most famous people you can imagine. It’s absurd and feels a little compulsive. Quite a shame because he’s otherwise a pretty bright guy.

    I too am more bothered by this than others. What’s the fucking point of communication in the first place if it’s wholly untethered to reality?

  38. 38
    Haydnseek says:

    C’mon Doug, a lot of people love being lied to. How else do you explain the success of Fox News? You might say that these people think Fox is telling them the truth, so they don’t know that they’re being lied to. Nevertheless, they ARE being lied to, and they can’t get enough…

  39. 39
    ThatLeftTurnInABQ says:

    do you think most people hate being lied to?

    People don’t like being lied to, but if they can ignore the lie by pretending it didn’t happen and ignoring contrary evidence proving the lie, then most folks will do so and get on with life, unless the lie in question is of vital importance to them.

    This isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Homo sapiens sapiens are prolific and highly creative liars. If most people went nuclear over every lie they encounter in their daily lives we would have self-exterminated the species a long time ago and cats would rule the Earth.

  40. 40

    do you think most people hate being lied to? Or is it just me?

    Yes, we ladies love it when our significant other tells us he’s going out of town on business when in fact he’s going to St. Simon’s Island with some bimbo he met at a conference (true story! My ex was a douche.) We think it’s so charming when a coworker you think is your friend says she never, ever suggested to the boss that our department get saddled with a completely odious, ridiculous, impossible responsibility we should never, ever have, when in fact she did (true story! Yeah, that’s why I quit that job.) We think it’s really cute when a colleague steals our idea (true story for everyone, everywhere).

    C’mon. Of course we hate being lied to. But some people hate confrontation and are chicken shit and therefore continue to lie. It’s human nature. So it will always be with us.

  41. 41
    Cassidy says:

    Some people just like to live a fantasy.

  42. 42
    Lawrence says:

    I have said for years that the culture of lying that has deeply permeated our business, government, and public life is the true moral crisis of our times. Honesty is regarded as quaint, at best, where I work. It marks you as a bumpkin who could never roll with the power players. I am an analyst. My bosses keep me around for the problems that can’t be solved by lying, or ‘relationship management’ or whatever else they tell themselves they do.

  43. 43
    Doug Galt says:

    @Jewish Steel:

    One of my best friends does that. That doesn’t even bother me that much.

    I think it’s different in different contexts. I know that his boss can’t stand these lies when he tells them at work.

  44. 44
    Cassidy says:

    @Southern Beale: St. Simon’s huh? You’re right up the road from me (if you’re close).

  45. 45
    gbear says:

    @Jewish Steel: The term my dad had for people like that was ‘Chronic Bullshitter’.

  46. 46
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @eemom: Are you trying to suggest that the fact that I associated a lyric from a song with its best known recording – noting that this recording took place around the time I turned seven and the song itself was written a year after I was born – somehow is equivalent to confusing Soft Cell and the Clash? If so, you are out of your gourd.

    ETA: Just looked up the Tim Hardin version. It is very good. Thanks for pointing it out.

  47. 47
    quannlace says:

    It’s not lying so much as the spinning of tall tales. Any topic you care to mention, he’s spent time with the most famous

    Has he insisted he used to work for the CIA? I know the type.

  48. 48
    Cassidy says:

    @quannlace: Or how every guy in the VFW used to be a CIA assassin or SEAL in Vietnam. My mom knows quite a few of those coincidentally hanging out in one VFW hall.

  49. 49
    MikeJ says:

    What I really hate is going on a sales call as the technical expert with a salesman. They’ll sit there and lie their asses off about what the product can do, and then as the technical expert I’m supposed to convince the customer’s technical people that the lie wasn’t actually a lie. That’s when you explain that with enough consulting hours to support the product anything is possible.

    You have to telegraph to the techies what the truth is in such a way that the sales droids don’t understand you stabbed him in the back by telling the truth.

  50. 50
    ThatLeftTurnInABQ says:

    @quannlace:

    Has he insisted he used to work for the CIA?

    Even chronic bullshitters have to keep up with the latest fashions. The CIA is sooooo last century. Navy SEALs are the new black.

  51. 51
    Eljai says:

    I think there’s some study out there about how the more you confront people with the facts, the more they dig into their own version of reality, even if it flies in the face of said facts.

    My co-workers annoy the crap out of me, but not for lying. They just irritate me.

  52. 52
    shortstop says:

    @Maude: I have more of a problem with people who can’t admit when they’re wrong.

  53. 53

    As Mr. Tweedy sang: “All my lies are always wishes.
    I know I would die if I could come back new”

    I forgive them (and myself) for lying but I don’t forget.

  54. 54
    David in NY says:

    @Grumpy Code Monkey:

    not in a “YOU LIE” kind of way

    You can usually deal with lies by pretending they’re misunderstandings or mistakes. I don’t think any of my current colleagues (or I that I can recall) intentionally lies, but people are just wrong — bad memory, convenient memory, honest mistake, etc., lots and lots. We’re all relatively low-key lawyers, but we don’t let decisions get made on what we think are flawed bases.

  55. 55

    @Cassidy:

    I’m in Nashville. I’ve, um, never been to St. Simon’s. It’s always been associated with cheating for me.

  56. 56
    Jewish Steel says:

    @Doug Galt: Absolutely.

    What grates on me is the undercurrent of insecurity. Very bright but no college. I want to tell him, “Dude, I like you. I like spending time with you. You’re obviously very smart. You don’t have to puff yourself up beyond recognition.”

    His fantasy self largely revolves around how punk rock he is, how much coke, with which asshole musician. Hyper-masculine. I hate that shit.

  57. 57
    David in NY says:

    @MikeJ: Oh sales. Let’s not even go there.

  58. 58
    Gex says:

    Conservatives have made it impossible for the follower types in our country to accuse anyone of lying. They’ve adopted this strange “since we can’t really know anything, whatever nonsense I make up could possibly be true in some respect” attitude. See evolution, climate change, or anything where the real world contradicts what their party tells them.

    Then they use their tone patrolling to make calling out a lie worse than lying.

    I believe this was a very deliberate tactic post Nixon.

    Totebaggers…Well I don’t know what to make of people who should know better, but just don’t seem to get it. Other than we tend to try to fit in with our communities and they’ve just followed the culture.

  59. 59
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @Jewish Steel: I had a friend like that, but we were both 13 then.

  60. 60
    Punchy says:

    Nearly all of my coworkers are tote-bagging milquetoasts

    You do know that this Intertoobz thingy runs on their computers, too, right? If they didn’t like/trust/understand you before, well…I’m guessing things may get a bit frostier, as you’ve called them chickenshits in front of the entire planet.

    Yikes.

  61. 61
    shortstop says:

    Tainted love I want, he gives it to meeeee, tainted love I want, he gives it but not for free. It’s taintful and I’m so grateful to be nowhere.

  62. 62
    Cassidy says:

    @Southern Beale: Gotcha. Not close then. I’m about 45 minutes (roughly) south.

    Sorry. I went there as a kid once. It was pretty in a Southern, Old Savannah kind of way.

  63. 63
    currants says:

    Yah, can’t stand it. Something about the to-your-face part that makes me wild. Guess I’m intolerant.

  64. 64
    Dr. Squid says:

    @Ted & Hellen: Don’t wrench your shoulder complimenting yourself on what a contrarian you are. Kneejerk contrarianism isn’t any better than Limbaa.

  65. 65
    ThatLeftTurnInABQ says:

    @MikeJ:

    They’ll sit there and lie their asses off about what the product can do

    After decades of working with salespeople on both sides of the table I’ve become convinced that there is something different about them neurologically, their brains just aren’t wired up the same way as non-salespeople. Because it isn’t so much that they are habitual liars, as it is that at a very deep level they just don’t seem to get the concept of objective, empirically verifiable reality. To them, everything is negotiable and/or something that can be overcome with sufficient application of willpower and desire. There are no non-social realities in their world. Everything that can’t be dealt with in social terms they are simply blind to, as if it doesn’t exist.

  66. 66
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @shortstop: You are going to go to hell for that.

  67. 67
    Doug Galt says:

    @Punchy:

    They already know I think this.

    I worry sometimes that I’m a tote-bagging milquetoast at heart.

  68. 68
    eric says:

    dude…you dont what lying is until an opposing counsel says “you said X” and you actually NEVER said X and then opposing counsel puts “you said X” into a pleading seeking sanctions against you. That brings me to a level of anger that I cant verbally express. And, why yes, that is happening as we speak.

  69. 69
    shortstop says:

    @ranchandsyrup: What a good idea. Yes, I will put on YHF right now.

  70. 70
    Jewish Steel says:

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    Yes!

    “Stop being 13, you fucker!” would also be a good thing to say. But I fear it would shatter him.

  71. 71
    handsmile says:

    @ Doug Galt:

    You certainly don’t lack for ideas in this regard, but a post devoted to songs about lying could be an epic exercise in “readership capture.” (Perhaps you’ve already done so.) For instance, these first come to my mind:

    Your Cheatin’ Heart – Hank Williams (obviously)
    Would I Lie to You – The Eurhythmics
    Please Baby – The Mississippi Sheiks

    I have nothing of much insight in reply to your question/dilemma: I don’t like it; I encounter it too often; the context/situation determines my response. But I do find it, I guess, endearingly trustful that you pose such a question to commenters on a website.

    ETA: Evidently a number of others here are musically inspired by the topic as well.

  72. 72
    shortstop says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: More than for previously saying tainted love in Andalusia? Oh, mi corazon.

  73. 73
    22over7 says:

    It depends on who’s doing the lying. My granddaddy told my daddy that he hated liars and thieves, and if he caught any of his kids engaging in those behaviors, he’d (insert something so awful that you know you’d never survive the onslaught).

    I think that what he meant was that he wouldn’t tolerate his children lying to or stealing from him. You can’t trust a liar or a thief, and trust is the foundation on which love is built. If my daughter tells me she’s fine when she’s having a bad day, that’s not a problem. But if she lies about something important, and does it to my face, then I can’t trust anything that comes out of her mouth and our relationship is compromised. And that would break my heart.

    As for Doug’s colleague, well, you now know that he lies and you can’t trust him. Proceed accordingly.

  74. 74
    Bubblegum Tate says:

    Norm MacDonald had a great bit about lying for no reason:

    “Did you ever catch yourself telling a lie for no reason at all? Like your friend asks, ‘Hey, have you seen that new Meryl Streep movie?’ and you say, ‘Uh…yes.’ When you know you haven’t seen the new Meryl Streep movie. And what could you possibly stand to gain by this lie?”

    OK, so it’s way funnier with Norm MacDonald’s delivery.

  75. 75

    @Cassidy:

    I’ve not been to any of the Georgia islands. Only been to Hilton Head and Pawley’s Island in S.C. We really liked Pawley’s Island. We used to go to St. George Island off Appalachicola in Florida, but it started getting really built up and then Florida went insane and I started boycotting it.

    So now when I want to do an island I go to (or dream of going to) the San Juan’s in Washington. When I win the lottery I’m getting a house there. I love it there.

  76. 76
    David in NY says:

    @eric: Some lawyers are like salespeople, consummately able to convince themselves that some fantasy of theirs actually happened. It is not, thank god, universal in the trade, but when it comes up it is really annoying (as you are well aware). My wife works as a law assistant in a NY state court and boy does she have occasional stories (though the worst are lawyers, or former lawyers, going pro se).

  77. 77

    @shortstop: Back in the heyday of peer sharing, I accidentally downloaded a file of YHF that wasn’t broken out into song files. For years I would listen to that CD from front to back. I miss that now when a YHF song comes up on shuffle.

  78. 78
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @eric: And this is why I follow up every telephone or in person conversation with opposing counsel with a letter summarizing the conversation and requesting that, if opposing counsel disagrees with the summary, he or she respond immediately. I have found it very useful in situations like yours to be able to pull out my contemporaneous and uncontradicted record of the interaction.

  79. 79
    Cassidy says:

    @Southern Beale: Cool. I’d really like to move to SC/ Charleston area. It’s nice. But then you have all the residents of South Carolina to deal with and kind of shatters the mystique.

  80. 80
    AnonPhenom says:

    Lying dosen’t bother me, nor is it as important to me as the reason ‘why’ the person is lying. Deception has been part of human nature since before we learned to communicate using language.

  81. 81
    Jewish Steel says:

    @Doug Galt:

    I worry sometimes that I’m a tote-bagging milquetoast at heart.

    My reputation for pugnacity outstrips my inclination to mix it up. I prefer the well placed snotty remark.

  82. 82
    shortstop says:

    I’ve known two people who were bona fide compulsive liars. The stuff that came out of their mouths was unbelievable — they’d fib about anything, from innocuous stuff like the weather or the time of day straight on up to past marriages and criminal records. When it gets that bad, it stops being offensive and becomes absolutely fascinating in its pathology.

  83. 83
    shortstop says:

    @ranchandsyrup: Definitely one of my favorites of all time, and best listened to in one go.

    That reminds me that it’s time to buy tickets for JT’s annual solo benefit show at the Vic! It’s an all-request show — songs are picked by the first 20-25 people standing in line. I wish some of them would be more imaginative, though.

  84. 84
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @shortstop: I either did not see that one or I blocked from my memory.

  85. 85
    Felinious Wench says:

    I don’t tend to take it personally…lying shows someone else’s insecurity or weakness. If I feel a need to correct it, I will back them into a corner in front of the group, such as “I’d love to see the data you used, it doesn’t match mine and I’d like to see where I messed up.” Just lead them down the path and let them expose themselves publicly without realizing what I’ve done because I’m so nice about it.

    I’m a Southern woman. This is what we do.

  86. 86
    ruemara says:

    I hate being lied to. I hate when people postulate and call it facts. Now that I’ve gotten to see the world of politics more up close, I hate the lies that people will believe because they want it to be true. Covers both sides of the political spectrum, it’s costly, destructive and in the end, stupid.

    That being said, I have had to lie. I thinned out my resume to get this job. I’m adding things I haven’t had time or inclination to learn in the hopes I can get a better one. It’s not a huge lie, because I have studied them, but if I’m not getting paid for it, the impetus to keep using those skills so the mental space is not filled with the Banana Splits theme is not there. I dunno, man. Your douchey colleague will keep lying until inevitably, he or a superior gets caught in the bullshit explosion.

  87. 87
    eric says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: i know. I havent had to do that in forever. I have been very fortunate that most of my opposing counsels have been relatively sane. In this case, I am just stunned by the threat of sanctions. It is the all-in style of p0kr playing. Hope (not unwarranted, sadly) the judge says a pox on both of you and he wins by not doing what he was supposed to do. “Red, I should have been a farmer.”

  88. 88
    UncommonSense says:

    To me, the act of lying is an expression of contempt. When someone lies to me, I take it as an insult.

  89. 89

    @shortstop: Was not aware of such a show. That is awesome and enjoy the show. Which one would you suggest?

    YHF and Being There and Summerteeth sure helped me get through some shitty times.

  90. 90
    eemom says:

    hmm. Thread branching out into salespeople, pathological liars, asshole opposing counsel, pants-ass-fat husbands.

    Perhaps lying is a complex topic.

  91. 91
    What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us? says:

    I don’t like being lied to, but there are folks that love being lied to all the time. For instance, Fox News’s regular viewers. Also, the average NRA member who believes Wayne LaPierre’s every distopian fever-dream.

  92. 92
    Anoniminous says:

    I despise liars. If someone tells me A is B and I later find out it is actually C and the person knew it at the time they’re dead to me. I’ll never trust them again and do my utmost to cast them out of my life.

    I don’t have time to deal with that horsesh*t.

  93. 93
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @eemom: There could also be a discussion about the difference between puffery and a fraudulent statement of fact.

  94. 94
    shortstop says:

    @ranchandsyrup: I guess I don’t understand why people always ask for, say, “Misunderstood” or “Outtasite (Outta Mind),” both of which you can hear at every single Wilco show. If I were to get there at 2:00 p.m. to wait in line, which I would not do because I’m an old broad now and have shit to get done, I’d ask for something from A.M. — or maybe even some Uncle Tupelo stuff that you never get to hear performed anymore and that really lends itself to a one-guitar (usually acoustic) rendition. Not that I remotely mind hearing anything he plays.

    Where do you live? You would love this, and also the solo shows he frequently puts on in smallish local bars.

  95. 95
    shortstop says:

    @What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?: Also my neighbor, whose boyfriend is going to get a divorce any minute from the wife who doesn’t understand him.

  96. 96
    Cheryl from Maryland says:

    I can’t stand lying, especially when it evolves from a fantasy world the liar substitutes for reality. Once the lie is out there, it doesn’t go away unless people take action. However, I find the current climate of demanding “civility” and “respect” to be equally henious. Civility is not the same as no criticism of poor work, and respect comes from quality work.

  97. 97
    gbear says:

    @handsmile:

    That list would have to start out with ‘Lies’, the best fake Beatles song ever to be put on a 45. The full album sucks donkey dicks.

  98. 98
    Cassidy says:

    @shortstop: You need to check out 500 Miles to Memphis and Two Cow garage.

  99. 99

    @shortstop: I live in San Diego. Founded by the Germans in 1904. I’ve seen Wilco prolly 7 times. I’d catch them quite a bit when I lived in Denver. I would completely love that show, though. When is it?

    I’ve been listing to How to Fight Loneliness a lot.

    ETA: Excited to see Low up in Hollyweird in April.

  100. 100
    shortstop says:

    Thinking about one of the pathological liars I mentioned above, get this: he wanted to get out of working one weekend, so he told his boss and coworkers it was his weekend to have his daughter (joint custody from a marriage that ended in divorce). But he didn’t have a daughter and he’d never been married. So he decided he had to keep up this lie for the 12 years he worked for the company, and he kept embellishing it, pretending to attend spelling bees, Little League games, camping weekends, etc. In the end, I think he really believed he had a daughter. That is truly one of the most fucked-up things I’ve ever witnessed.

  101. 101
    BC says:

    We just had an election in which the nominee for a major party lied to the American people – the Jeep going to China ad being the most egregious, but there were other whoppers, too – and almost 50% of the American people did not mind they were being lied to. The rightwing Christians don’t care that James Dobson and Franklin Graham lie to them. So, maybe it’s just us DFHs that care if people lie.

  102. 102
    AnonPhenom says:

    Attention all self-righteous haters of deception:

    The King of All Liars welcomes your hate!

  103. 103
    shortstop says:

    @ranchandsyrup: Next month. Let me know if you ever get to Chicago, especially in March, and we’ll see if he’s playing. After that we can all go out looking for fourth-wave ska. ;)

  104. 104
    jl says:

    I have no idea whether DougJ should bring up the issue with the person he accuses of lying.

    The question at the end of the post was whether people in general hated being lied to. I don’t know about that in general, but I sure do not like dealing with lies of any kind.

    Well, except for how to reply to ‘Do I look pretty in this, Honey?’ That kind of thing requires a separate analysis.

  105. 105
    schrodinger's cat says:

    There are lies people tell others and the lies they tell themselves. What would you say to a person who is estranged from her husband, who says that he will come back when he realizes what a good wife she has been. When the man in question does not respond to her calls, and whose address she does not have.

  106. 106
    gbear says:

    @shortstop:

    I think he really believed he had a daughter.

    Invite him over for a movie night sometime but don’t tell him the movie will be ‘Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf’.

  107. 107
    aimai says:

    @Southern Beale:

    I think the thing I’ve learned most about as I’ve gotten older is that many people not only hate confrontation but dislike people who are willing to fight about principle or make a fuss about a truth/lie or rights based situation. And people are quite attuned to the beginnings of these situations, especially in corporate or academic settings, and they will simply run away from the fight before it even begins. You can see it happen all the time–someone will present a “problem” for the organization and even seemingly “good people” will rally round to squelch the problem/hide the issue so that important people don’t feel uncomfortable.

    There is a story being reported today in the Boston Globe about the multi year campaign of abuse by a top Medical Doctor at Beth Israel in Boston. Up to and including (apparently) testimony about how he displayed a barbie doll with a noose around her neck at a female colleagues graduation, how he commented on women’s breasts, how he demeaned and demoted respected women–these stories were, apparently, the tip of the iceberg and Beth Israel finally settled out of court for 7 million to one woman complainant. But the guy is still present at some important weekly meeting/discussion. People don’t have the guts to confront high status offenders even when secrecy has been stripped from them and everyone knows what an abusive asshole they are. Meanwhile low status people get tossed from the system with a single complaint or when the cost of employing them goes up a dollar an hour.

  108. 108
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @jl: To that question I appreciate honesty with tact. I’d rather let my husband tell me if a certain outfit does not work, but he do it gently while sparing my ego.

  109. 109
    Thymezone says:

    A lie is not a lie.

    If I am late to work and tell you that it’s because I had a problem with my car, and that’s not true, well, that’s a thing. The truth is that it’s none of your fucking business why I was late so when you ask me as if you deserve to know I am going to give you an answer that sends you away to bother somebody else. I did have a problem with my car, namely, I didn’t get in it until 5 minutes before 8 when I am supposed to be here at 8. Get it?

    But … if I tell you that I fucked up that little project because A told me B when she should have told me C …. and that’s not true, then that’s a real lie and you should fire me if you find out. I won’t tell lies like that. For one thing, it’s easier to just say I fucked up, sorry, and move on. If I don’t know the answer to your question, I will just tell you I don’t know instead of making up some bullshit answer like 80% of my peers do all the fucking time.

  110. 110
    dww44 says:

    @LawrenceThank you for this. It’s as true in the business world (from my experience there) as it is pervasive in the political one. Like yesterday afternoon when on ATC on NPR at 4:30p.m. they led with Rand Paul talking about Obama lying in the State of the Union. They let that become the meme of that bnews segment and never provided a direct rebuttal. Oh they had a clip of Dick Durbin a few minutes letter, but nah, the listener was left with the Rand Paul comment firmly implanted in their brains. They did that all afternoon: let GOP spokesmen lead the headlines;not the President or any other Democrat. This is what is wrong with the media these days. I wish I had access to a wayback machine that compiled NPR coverage from 2001 to 2009.

    I’ve not contributed to public radio/tv in 2 years and unless they change a bit it’s not going to be this year either.

  111. 111
    Capt. Louis Renault says:

    The topic of honesty is one that many trolls must torture themselves over

  112. 112

    @shortstop: Will do. :) Same if you ever get ’round to SD. I have a bunch of great reasons to go to chi. Just need to make it happen.

  113. 113
    Yutsano says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: Most men I know don’t really have the tact to pull this off unfortunately. I’m not saying it’s all straight men, but most that I know just can’t seem to qualify their language enough to handle that delicate task. Kudos to you since you’ve found the real gem who can. :)

  114. 114
    Seanly says:

    @Doug Galt:

    Nicely played.

  115. 115
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    I cry very easily so I generally prefer to be lied to, especially if it’s something that I know is going to hurt me. I’ll generally hide in the bathroom or under the blankets so I don’t care if the person lying is doing it straight-faced or not.

  116. 116
    Cassidy says:

    @Yutsano: My wife and I have figured out she’d be much happier if I didn’t let her walk out of the house looking foolish.

  117. 117
    aimai says:

    @dww44: @dww44:

    Yeah, I heard NPR discussing the debate over the sequester in terms of a “philosophical difference.” I wanted to shout “its not a philosophical difference” as to whether you believe that slashing government spending during a recession creates a disaster or “pays for itself” in higher revenues from all that job creation. They’ve actually tested it out in Europe and its called “Austerity” and a shrinking economy. There is no “philsophical difference” here–its a question of fact. If you want to shrink the economy then slash spending. If you want to grow the economy then keep spending government money on important initiatives. Opposing spending may be ideolgoical but its not a mere “philosphical” difference. There’s actually a real world outcome.

  118. 118
    Ruckus says:

    @ThatLeftTurnInABQ:
    cats would rule the Earth

    They Don’t? I was sure they did. When did this change?

    I think we hate lies when they affect us. Like rethugs. We hate them for lying all the time. Like when their lips move. What we really hate is that their constant lies make our lives much worse.

  119. 119
    Patricia Kayden says:

    “I pointed this out to a few other people in the department (not in front of the person who told the lies) and they didn’t care at all.”

    Probably would be better to keep that to yourself or just talk to a few good friends in the department about his lies. If lying is okay in the department’s culture, the “few other people” may look at you as a spoilsport or a goody two-shoes.

  120. 120
    shortstop says:

    @Just Some Fuckhead: Do you ever take the blankets into the bathroom? That’d be extra protection.

  121. 121
    MikeBoyScout says:

    Doug,
    I’m late to the thread, but lying and giving liars a pass is the easy way out. Water flows down hill brother. Real work is hard.

    I don’t know the size of your business organization, but it has been my experience the larger it is the more prone to lazy thinking and propaganda proposals it is.

    Usually I’d default to “I blame Obama!”, but in this case I blame powerpoint chart ware. If Brezhnev had had powerpoint the USSR would still be going strong.

  122. 122
    Raven says:

    @Yutsano: Years ago my bride was making handbags for a juried show. She asked me what I thought of a specific bad. Honestly it is the only thing she ever made that I didn’t care for. I told her. She flipped out. I told her never to ask me again. She hasn’t.

  123. 123
    quannlace says:

    Rand Paul talking about Obama lying in the State of the Union. They let that become the meme of that bnews segment and never provided a direct rebuttal.

    No need for rebuttal. If Rand Paul says anything, I just assume it’s bullshit.

  124. 124
    hitchhiker says:

    Once a pastor (whom I thought of as a personal friend) shared some private information about a member of my family with others in my (former) church. It got back to me, and when I asked her about it, this is how it went:

    Me: Did you tell so-and-so about . . . ?
    Her: Wellllllll. I’m not sure . . . . . but if I did, I would have had a very good reason.

    The end. Of friendship. I found out later that she’d actually dropped this information (which had to do with my daughter and was nobody’s business) casually at a lunch with five or six other people present. She was just gossiping because she could.

    If she had said, I did and I’m so sorry. That was unforgiveable and stupid. I was wrong.

    or words to that effect, it might have been okay.

    I get that people feel cornered and find all kinds of reasons to justify themselves, but if a friend asks you a direct question and you can’t bring yourself to admit to the basic facts, I’m done with that person. What’s the point of being around someone you don’t trust?

  125. 125
    Kip the Wonder Rat says:

    @Capri: Exact-a-mundo!

    I’m fairly advanced in my academic career and I completely agree with Capri. You have to address “misstatements” or “misunderstandings” immediately, and you have to do it for many reasons.

    Be polite but be clear. Keep statements short and avoid adjectives, adverbs, or other qualifiers. Start from the position that what the other guy said is not your understanding of the reality at hand. Don’t assume a lie – assume ignorance or misunderstanding – but don’t let it float by without a discussion with either a clear resolution on the spot or clear action steps whose outcomes are to be reported at the next meeting.

    You may end up living the old saying: Friends come and go, but enemies accumulate.

    However, if this person is really lying, then you will also get to state, even if only to yourself: I welcome their hatred! (And don’t we all want to be a bit more like FDR? Even if just for the cocktails?)

    I’ve conducted my professional activities this way since my student days, and I’ve survived just fine, and indeed, have been elected or appointed to fairly high positions exactly because of this approach.

  126. 126

    The otherwise venerable PRI radio program Marketplace’s program on the Tesla/NYTimes imbroglio sided with the Times, of all things, and repremanded Tesla CEO for picking a fight. The Times reporter lied and the CEO was defending his company’s integrity and the show thought to side with Broder. Ugh.

  127. 127
    Yutsano says:

    @Cassidy: It’s just the minor shitstorm from the brief moment of brutal honesty that gets you in trouble, at least initially. I agree that one should never let their espoused head out looking terrible and not say anything. Sometimes the temporary anger with the thanks later works better.

    @Raven: I always tell people if you didn’t want to know you shouldn’t have asked me. I’m not one for sugarcoating when you ask me for an honest opinion. And if you give me flak for it I just won’t give them anymore. It’s that whole Scorpio never forgetting thing. :)

  128. 128
    kuvasz says:

    Generally, in my business career I have had people bold-face lie to my face. In such cases I reach for my wallet, withdraw my ID, look at it intently, then flip it in front of the liar and ask him if my ID states “STUPID FUCKING ASSHOLE.” When he, startled says “no,” I then ask him if not, then why did he think his lies would be undetected.

  129. 129
    AnonPhenom says:

    Excellent book on the subject.

  130. 130

    @Yutsano: Lots of people pose their request for validation as a request for honest feedback. Frustrates me. Caution, blawghoooaring ahead: http://ranchandsyrup.com/2012/.....ttle-lies/

  131. 131
    MikeJ says:

    I think people let a lot of workplace lies slide because they really just don’t care that much about the company. You know the old joke, they pretend to pay us, we pretend to work. Sure, some people care, and the ones who do care will lie to get ahead. The people who are just putting in time have seen what happens in the past to those who bring things up.

  132. 132
    eemom says:

    Also too, a lie gets halfway around the word before the truth has gotten its boots on. True story.

  133. 133
    Yutsano says:

    @ranchandsyrup: There are several questions that start the “DANGER WILL ROBINSON!!” alert in my brain. An honest opinion of how someone is dressed definitely falls under that category. I have a friend who still asks me that and I refuse to answer her and then she gets upset. Then I remind her of the last time she asked and I answered. Usually she changes after that.

  134. 134
    johnny aquitard says:

    I don’t hate lying in principle

    Why don’t you hate lying in principle? And if you don’t hate it in principle, why are you bothered by it in practice?

    That’s not a rhetorical question, I’m puzzled and I’d like to know why.

  135. 135
    Doug Galt says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    I had to point it out because it was an unimportant lie on an important topic. If someone (one particular powerful person) had found out the next day it would have been “the numbers are wrong oh my god, that changes our decision” whereas I could say “his numbers are wrong, but I checked and the actual numbers are okay anyway so this doesn’t change anything”.

  136. 136
    ricky says:

    There are studies which suggest latent fabrication resistance is statistically correlated to milquestoast intolerance, even when controlling for disdain of accessories.

  137. 137

    @Yutsano: I have started to ask people whether they want validation or honest feedback. So far so good.

  138. 138
    catclub says:

    @Yutsano: A diplomat is someone who can convince his wife that a new fur coat would make her look stout. And have her thank him for the advice.

    Not a common ability.

  139. 139
    FlipYrWhig says:

    Most people in meetings are interested in one thing. The end of the meeting.

    I was also at a meeting with colleagues yesterday. I had several ideas about ways to reform various internal procedures. They almost all got shot down. Why? Because, see, what may seem unfair now… well, admittedly, it _is_ unfair, but things just have a way of working themselves out over time, while making changes can lead to slippery slopes and unanticipated consequences. I thought, no wonder the Senate still has stupid rules about the filibuster.

  140. 140
    catclub says:

    @pacem appellant: Yep. No mention of comparison of the logs to the statements made in the article.

  141. 141
    Gravenstone says:

    @Ruckus: They would have to evolve into opposable thumbs to effectively rule on their own. In the interim, why do you think they maintain human staff?

  142. 142
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @eemom:

    a lie gets halfway around the word before the truth has gotten its boots on. True story.

    The truth should really start wearing flip-flops. That way it could catch up faster.

  143. 143
    Yutsano says:

    @catclub: Indeed.

    We kan haz new thread naow?

  144. 144
    ThatLeftTurnInABQ says:

    @catclub:

    A diplomat is someone who can convince his wife that a new fur coat would make her look stout.

    That, or somebody who can go out in public and with a straight face tell everyone else that “serious and frank discussions were had” after she brains him with a cast-iron frying pan.

  145. 145
    rea says:

    Many people apparently find being lied to quite comforting . . .

  146. 146
    MomSense says:

    @Ruckus:

    I know that the world belongs to my cats. For now they are letting me live in it (to serve them!). This is why I am very, very nice to them.

  147. 147
    Culture of Truth says:

    Remember…. it’s not a lie…. if you believe it.

  148. 148
    Culture of Truth says:

    I pointed this out to a few other people in the department (not in front of the person who told the lies) and they didn’t care at all.

    “oh, you were actually listening?”

  149. 149
    Soonergrunt says:

    I think most people take umbrage at lies from the opposition (whom they’re programmed to mistrust in the first place) than from the people they perceive to be on “their side.”

  150. 150
    Gregory says:

    Of course I hate being lied to. That’s one reason I am not a Republican.

    And why I hardly listen to NPR anymore. Their — for lack of a better word — *reporters* aren’t usually guilty of lying, but they let Republican lies go unchallenged all the time.

  151. 151
    raven says:

    @Yutsano: OOO, didn’t know it had and astrological basis. Nov 10 here.

  152. 152
    Culture of Truth says:

    NPR on Hagel:

    GOP SUCCESSFULLY upheld Hagel’s nomination, after DEMOCRATS FAILED to get the NECESSSARY 60 VOTES

  153. 153
    kerFuFFler says:

    @Dracula:

    While I hate lying, I do like lying down.

    So refreshing—–seems like most people nowadays like “laying” down. ;)

  154. 154
    John says:

    @chopper:

    He who fights with douches must take care lest he become a douche; and if you gaze for long into David Brooks, David Brooks gazes also into you.

  155. 155
    Ruckus says:

    @Yutsano:
    I think a lot of the problem is that women only ask a man they know, usually well, if something makes their ass look fat. And unless that man has his radar on all the time it can be taken as an offhand remark that doesn’t require a lot of thought for an answer. IOW people tend to get comfortable with each other and forget that some questions are always loaded and need tact and a thoughtful response. Of course there is always the guy with no clue.
    OTOH, is there generally a question(s) that men ask women that require the same tactful and thoughtful response. Like, Is it big enough?

  156. 156
    MikeBoyScout says:

    @152Culture of Truth: You say that like you don’t appreciate the hard work of journalism mental gymnastics that went into stringing words together to describe an action which stands what was actually seen on its head.

    It ain’t easy.

  157. 157
    Ruckus says:

    @Gravenstone:
    The same way rich assholes maintain human staff. To do the stuff they are incapable of or that is beneath their station in life.

    Isn’t that sort of the definition of a ruling class?

  158. 158
    Higgs Boson's Mate says:

    Lying annoys me because it makes me feel that the liar is attempting to diminish me. “You look like you’re stupid enough to believe that…”

    Being lied to used to infuriate me. It’s happened so many times now that when I’m lied to I take a deep breath, try to understand, and garrote the lying fuck in the parking lot when nobody’s looking.

    Protip: Always take your victim’s wallet; the cops love quick solutions.

  159. 159
    YellowJournalism says:

    @Face: Agreed. It’s the big stuff or constant lying that is the problem. Sometimes, though, little lies make te world go ’round.

    I’ll let Dr. Doofenshmirtz explain.

  160. 160
    wasabi gasp says:

    The other phat.

  161. 161
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Yutsano: I tend to operate by expressing a preference for a different garment. As in, “That looks fine, but you look really hot in the black dress with the red flowers.” Who wants to look fine when she can look hot?

  162. 162
    xian says:

    @Dr. Squid: actually, your attention is reward enough. I do admire the commetariat’s evolving ability to ignore sad, socially inept, cries for attention at all costs.

  163. 163
    Mike E says:

    @Culture of Truth: And Reid should step down from Majority Leader because, you know, math.

  164. 164
    JoyfulA says:

    Then there’s confabulation. I’ve seen it in a quite elderly person and in a person with brain trauma; I’ve come to perceive it as painting the past in prettier colors, and it doesn’t do any harm except to reality, but I was taken aback when I first encountered it because I personally, factually, knew otherwise.

    I suppose confabulation comes from other people I wouldn’t so readily forgive, but I haven’t encountered it. I am normally hot-headed in response to lies or to nonsense, and I get in that person’s face. Friends tell me I’m going to get beat up on account of that, one of these days, but I don’t have much of a working mouth monitor anymore.

  165. 165
    different-church-lady says:

    @Doug Galt:

    I defer to your greater knowledge and experience of looking like a douche.

    Just now a bunch of people in this cafe looked over at me to find out what all uncontrollable cackling was about.

    To answer your question: for me it’s not so much just lying, it’s more the kind of lies that elicit the “How dumb do you think I am?” reaction in me.

    And, as with any discussion of lying and the lying liars who lie, we need to consider the famous Frankfurtian distinction between lying and bullshit.

  166. 166
    pacem appellant says:

    @catclub: It made me angry at I show I normally love. Even with its slight rightward bent, it’s easily one of the best PRI programs produced. It’s been sliding since Dubner was given a weekly feature, but I let it slide as the Marketplace equivalent of Dog-bites-Man filler story. But this was unconscionable: Tesla alleges that the Times reporter lied and can prove it. So Marketplace sides with the times, basically saying, they’re the big bully, so don’t pick a fight with them.

  167. 167
    different-church-lady says:

    @Higgs Boson’s Mate:

    Lying annoys me because it makes me feel that the liar is attempting to diminish me. “You look like you’re stupid enough to believe that…”

    Yes, that’s how we feel, but it’s probably not what the liar is thinking. Their mindset is more along the lines of either “How am I going to get what I want” or “How am I going to get out of this?” A calculated evaluation of whether you’re going to bite on it or not probably doesn’t occur.

  168. 168
    Higgs Boson's Mate says:

    @different-church-lady:

    You’re probably right. OTOH, I have a whole roll of piano wire and I’m not going to let it go to waste.

  169. 169
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    @FlipYrWhig: It’ll never be able to keep up wearing flip flops. The truth just needs to stop taking its fucking shoes off.

  170. 170
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Just Some Fuckhead: It should change its socks frequently or else it will get blisters.

  171. 171
    Bob2 says:

    Of course there’s the old study http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_.....061002.php
    “The study, published in the journal’s June issue, found that 60 percent of people lied at least once during a 10-minute conversation and told an average of two to three lies.”

    Then there are categories of lies like white lies, lies told to gain, lies told for no reason at all, lies that aren’t lies so much as honest mistakes, and then you have your McArdles.

    The work liar is harmless unless they’re doing it to railroad someone or something.

  172. 172
    Shortstop says:

    So 1,500 homes and businesses, including this one, just lost power. My question to you people is: why would that make all the dogs in the neighborhood start barking?

  173. 173
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Shortstop: Do you want the truth?

  174. 174
    wuzzat says:

    @different-church-lady: I think that’s what got me about the Romney campaign. I wasn’t surprised by how much he lied; I was surprised by how bad he was at it. Seriously, if you’re going to cheat to get ahead, at least be a little clever about it.

  175. 175
    Wally Ballou says:

    @gbear: Hey, it was two more albums before Rod became a POS..

    Three more albums. Atlantic Crossing is fantastic.

  176. 176
    ThatLeftTurnInABQ says:

    @Shortstop:

    My question to you people is: why would that make all the dogs in the neighborhood start barking?

    Because without any power everybody stopped using their wonderful electric tea kettles and went back to the Stone Age, aka using the whistling stovetop kind instead ?

  177. 177
    wuzzat says:

    @Shortstop: Sounds to me like the dogs are in on it.

  178. 178
    Shortstop says:

    These are good theories, ThatLeft and Wuzzat. I wonder if beeping CO detectors and so forth also have something to do with it

  179. 179
    David Flower says:

    Doug, once again in awe at your musical reference.

  180. 180
    Bob2 says:

    @wuzzat: Let’s be grateful he was bad at it. George W. Bush lied every time he opened his mouth during his first campaign, but crapcoated it in compassionate conservativism.

  181. 181
    Bob2 says:

    @wuzzat: Let’s be grateful he was bad at it. George W. Bush lied every time he opened his mouth during his first campaign, but crapcoated it in compassionate conservativism.

  182. 182
    smintheus says:

    @mistermix: Academics are incorrigible temperature takers…because they know that most of their colleagues will also be taking the temperature. When nobody trusts their fellows to stand up and speak forthrightly, they don’t expect anybody to back them up if they do. So academic politics tends to be driven by the most dishonest, aggressive, and self-aggrandizing individuals.

    My dad, a one-time academic administrator, jokes about one prof who approached him privately after a meeting to say “I want you to know that I agree with you 100%…but don’t tell anybody I said so.”

    I once sat through a long presentation by a colleague in another dept. about diversity hiring, the gist of which was that their department made a practice of publishing dishonest job descriptions (in Psychology) for the purpose of discouraging/excluding as many white applicants as possible. Large meeting, nobody said a word. So I spoke up and pointed out that falsifying job requirements was illegal under the CRA. The person responded by denying that they did what he’d just bragged of doing…and several others supported him, insisting that he couldn’t have done anything illegal. For pointing out the simple truth about the law to this gathering, that was effectively the end of my tenure-track there.

  183. 183
    wuzzat says:

    @Bob2: Oh, I’m not sorry about it, I’m just puzzled. Not sure how you even get into politics, let alone get that far into politics, without being able to surpass the “I was dead at the time! I was on the moon!” level of lying your ass off.

  184. 184

    DougJ, you are definitely NOT alone in this. When I hear a wingnut lying on TV I get positively apoplectic because the audience that hears that is sooooo much larger AND so much more vulnerable to parroting that crap to other people….It’s gotten to the point that if I even walk by a TV with Fox News turned on, I start twitching. It doesn’t drive me as crazy as those people who are in my day to day life because I can actually confront them with the truth EXCEPT at work. At the small private company I work for it is impossible to call someone out in front of the others. I have to keep my job and that means putting up with more than a little BS, particularly when it comes to politics. I will probably manifest an ulcer later in life as a result of holding it all in.

  185. 185
    RSA says:

    @AnonPhenom:

    Deception has been part of human nature since before we learned to communicate using language.

    And non-human animals exercise a wide range of deception as well, in signaling and in direct communication.

  186. 186
    Jebediah says:

    @shortstop:
    That is pure distilled evil, what you just did.

  187. 187
    Jebediah says:

    @shortstop:
    Jeeziz, how many of these do you have?

  188. 188
    Ted & Hellen says:

    All of the commenters here who are pretending they have not or do not tell work-based lies from time to time (at least) are liars.

  189. 189
    ThatLeftTurnInABQ says:

    @Ted & Hellen:

    Congratulations, you figured out that all of the commentors in this thread are liars. Now go collect your parting gift from that nice man Mr. Epimenides who is standing next to the door; just don’t accept anything he pulls out of his crate. That doesn’t end well, or so I’ve heard.

  190. 190

    @Thymezone:

    If I am late to work and tell you that it’s because I had a problem with my car, and that’s not true, well, that’s a thing. The truth is that it’s none of your fucking business why I was late so when you ask me as if you deserve to know I am going to give you an answer that sends you away to bother somebody else. I did have a problem with my car, namely, I didn’t get in it until 5 minutes before 8 when I am supposed to be here at 8. Get it?

    But … if I tell you that I fucked up that little project because A told me B when she should have told me C …. and that’s not true, then that’s a real lie and you should fire me if you find out. I won’t tell lies like that. For one thing, it’s easier to just say I fucked up, sorry, and move on. If I don’t know the answer to your question, I will just tell you I don’t know instead of making up some bullshit answer like 80% of my peers do all the fucking time.

    I do love you, you grumpy old fuck.

  191. 191
    brantl says:

    I have to ask…do you think most people hate being lied to? Or is it just me?

    Mostly just honest people hate that shit, it’s why they don’t do it. <>

  192. 192
    brantl says:

    @Ted & Hellen:

    Why didn’t you take your case directly to the alleged liar, in a non confrontational, non emotional manner

    And how does one tell someone that they deliberately lied, in a non-confrontational, non-emotional manner, unless they’ve had a lobotomy,like you?
    Honestly, what a slopehead.

  193. 193
    Doug Galt says:

    @Thymezone:

    I agree with all of this.

  194. 194
    Yutsano says:

    @Sarah, Proud and Tall:

    I do love you, you grumpy old fuck

    You seem in good spirits dear. Did you get a cute new orderly at the home who moonlights as a male stripper and gives free shows?

  195. 195
    brashieel says:

    I’m not crazy about lying, but… It happens all the time. Work retail, customer service, or marketing for a few months. See how many lies you tell at work during that period. Really, anything where you interact with the general public and aren’t in total control of the business.

  196. 196
    Benno says:

    The head of my HR department is an inveterate liar. Lies to my face absolutely all the time. Denies a benefit because “your contract specifies” when my contract says no such thing. He told a coworker a couple of days ago that his company-provided car had already been delivered to him. A two-ton physical object that nobody has seen, he insisted that it had been handed over. It’s like I’m working for Rod Blagojovich.

  197. 197
    Paul in KY says:

    @Cassidy: I think he (Southern Beale’s ex) took the bimbo there.

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