Open Thread: Today’s GOP Apologists — Queuethers!

In the spirit of Valentine’s day, let’s spread some blogospheric love for Dave Weigel’s brilliant suggestion:

The Media Matters crew grab audio from one of those Fox News radio shows that only makes news when something horrible gets broadcasted. In this case, it’s morning show TV host Brian Kilmeade and ostensible daytime anchors Bill Hemmer and Martha MacCallum making fun of Desiline Victor:

MACCAULLUM: What’s the big deal? She was happy. She waited on line, she was happy that she voted.”

HEMMER: They held her up as a victim! What was she the victim of? Rashes on the bottom of her feet?

Ha, ha, rashes! Seriously, that’s sociopathic, and anyone who takes five or six seconds to examine the issue learns that 1) voting lines were asymmetrically longer in black and Hispanic precincts than in white precincts, 2) at least 200,000 Floridians gave up on voting last year because the lines were too long.

I propose a catchall term. Another (superior) word for “line” is “queue.” Thus:

Queuether (n): One who doubts that long voting lines cause problems for anybody and that there’s any need to reform them.

Also, may MacCallum, Hemmer, Kilmeade, and all their smarm-buddies at Faux News be afflicted by a foot rash over their entire bodies, but particularly the parts that they think with sit on.

Apart from the Usual Gang of Sociopaths, what’s on the agenda for the evening?

180 replies
  1. 1
    Baud says:

    Your post doesn’t even mention that she is 102 years old.

    Fox is disgusting.

  2. 2
    raven says:

    As I watch Gone With the Wind.

  3. 3
    sb says:

    Stayed home all day with this one because of morning siezures that looked for all the world like a heart attack. Hoping we don’t see a repeat tomorrow morning because that was scary. Emergency room this a.m. didn’t know what it was–neurological exam was negative. Blood tests next week.

    That and a long night watching NBA hoops.

  4. 4
    different-church-lady says:

    I’d love to have a hidden camera on one of those idiots if they had to wait more than six minutes for their caramel mocha latte.

  5. 5
    Joseph Nobles says:

    So odd. Going to Balloon Juice at work takes me back to February 7th on the front page, even though at home everything’s fine. I guess there are cookies I should delete.

  6. 6
    Mnemosyne says:


    There’s always one classic movie that a film fan hasn’t seen, and that’s my big one. I really have no desire to see it, either.

    For tonight, we’re going to eat frozen pizza, drink Coppola Rosso, and watch an old movie, but I can’t make up my mind: should I go for classic romantic comedy or classic romantic drama?

  7. 7
    raven says:

    @efgoldman: I’m just killin time but I do like Clark.

  8. 8
    Alison says:

    @Baud: Yeah, I mean…shit, a three hour wait (and I thought it was six? isn’t that what Obama said?) would be annoying and problematic enough for a young, healthy, able-bodied person. But for a 102-year-old woman who clearly has some physical disabilities…they seriously can’t imagine how basically impossible that would be?

    Or wait. I’m sure they can imagine it. They just couldn’t possibly give a fuck.

  9. 9
    Baud says:


    are developing the same kind of callousness

    “have developed” is the more accurate tense

  10. 10
    Alison says:

    And since it’s an OT: anyone here watch Top Chef? I will go full-uterus-mode and just say that I am really glad there’s a 2/3 chance of FINALLY having another woman win.

  11. 11
    gogol's wife says:


    I like Clark and I like Hattie. But because this was the only movie I’d ever seen Leslie Howard in until fairly recently, I thought he was a terrible actor. Boy was I wrong about that.

  12. 12
    raven says:

    @Mnemosyne: I’m going to a conference in Kennesaw tomorrow and I’m going to visit Cheatham’s Hill at the battlefield. When I moved here 28 years ago I went there and saw the “Illinois Monument”. The Illinois regiment executed the only frontal assault of the campaign up the hill and was badly mauled. Since then I have learned that I have an ancestor that was a member of Cheatham’s Rifles, the confederate unit that defended the hill. He was killed a few days later at Peachtree Creek so I’m kind of in a Civil War kind of mood.

  13. 13
    sb says:

    @Alison: I watch ‘Chopped’ a lot. Great show. My sister, a much better cook than I, is highly recommending either Iron Chef or Top Chef, one or the other.

    Pretty good shows on Food Network.

  14. 14

    If it’s not their problem, they don’t care. Isn’t that one of the most consistent principles of modern conservatism?

  15. 15
    raven says:

    @efgoldman: Command Decision and the Misfits were great.

  16. 16
    jamick6000 says:

    what’s on the agenda for the evening?

    I’m having a bake sale outside of my local supermarket to raise money to endow a SimpsonBowles Professorship of Political Economy at Georgetown University. David Gergen bought 8 rice crispy treats.

  17. 17
    Suffern ACE says:

    The sociopath is unfortunately me. Or maybe I’m just a sadist. Anyway, I’m going to get some therapy. Or just chuckle at your problems.

  18. 18
    OldBean says:

    MacCallum, Hemmer, Kilmeade

    Anyone else feel like pouring a scotch right now?

  19. 19
    Mnemosyne says:


    I just get retroactively annoyed at how much Hollywood pushed the “Lost Cause” bullshit mythology. Even my favorite filmmaker of all time got caught up in it and made a movie about the heroic Confederates.

  20. 20
    ruemara says:

    Sometimes, I’m a touch astounded at just how bloody awful every person who works on camera at Fox News truly is.

  21. 21
    Rosie Outlook says:

    @efgoldman: I never liked Gone With the Wind either. Too long, heroine too unpleasant, Ashley too Hamlet-like. It’s 3hours and 45 minutes of boredom wrapped around the burning of Atlanta. When I left the theatre, I yelled to the sky, “As God is my witness, I’ll never sit through THAT again!”

  22. 22
    realbtl says:

    Since all of the main roads are dry and it has been in the 40s lately I’m trying to psychokineticly melt the sheet of ice on my driveway and 1st 50′ of the little road I live on so I can get one of the scooters out for a ride. If Uri Geller can bend spoons I should be able to melt ice right?

  23. 23
    Thoughtful David says:

    So, it’s ok to get a rash on your feet to vote? At any age? For a 102-year-old, any little health issue can be so serious. It had to be very hard for her. Sociopaths, indeed.

  24. 24
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    HEMMER: They held her up as a victim! What was she the victim of? Rashes on the bottom of her feet?

    Ol’ Maw Hemmer must be so proud.

    as long as we’re doing cooking…. I have a half-plus bottle of mediocre cabernet, I was thinking of freezing the wine until I can use it in some kind of recipe. Anybody know if it will keep that way?

  25. 25
    lamh35 says:

    some good Valentine Day heck “any day” advice from POTUS to married men and all the others:

  26. 26
    Jay says:

    Given that another of Weigel’s recent posts kicks Marty Peretz right in the balls, I’d say the guy who once wished Matt Drudge would set himself on fire is, in fact, on fire.

  27. 27
    raven says:

    @Rosie Outlook: Well, since it’s about a 2 hr drive through the hellish North Atlanta traffic I’m going going to bolt about 5:30 so I’m not staying up for the end.

  28. 28
    Mnemosyne says:

    @gogol’s wife:

    Fun fact: Leslie Howard really championed Humphrey Bogart in his early career (he basically got Bogey the role that made him a star in The Petrified Forest) and they remained good friends. That’s who Bogey’s daughter is named after (he didn’t think it would be right to saddle an American boy with the first name of “Leslie.”)

  29. 29
    Rosie Outlook says:

    P.S. I remember thinking “For God’s sake, Ashley, just throw her down in the mud and fvck her. You’ll be happier, she’ll be happier, and I’ll be happier because the movie will end a lot sooner.”

  30. 30
    Francis says:

    Starting to look for a new job.
    Staring in the mirror and wondering how, at age 49, I ended up here.
    Giving wife and dogs big huge.

  31. 31
    TriassicSands says:

    I was just thinking about Oscar Pistorius, the NRA’s next celebrity spokesperson.

    Apparently, he has spoken out in the past about his love of firearms; now, it appears his love of guns exceeded his love for his girlfriend, since he’s been charged with her murder and there are no other suspects. One more gun nut tragedy.

    The sprinter’s former coach, Andrea Giannini, said he hoped the shooting was “just a tragic accident.”

    The woman,Reeva Steenkamp, was shot four times. I suppose that actually could happen if the gun were a fully automatic model. Otherwise….it seems like it would be pretty hard to accidentally shoot someone four times.

  32. 32
    raven says:

    @Francis: Twenty years ago tomorrow I crashed my first marriage basically started over with zip. Granted I was only 43 but. . hang in there.

  33. 33
    gogol's wife says:


    They are in this great film with Joan Blondell, Stand-in. Howard is great in it. Also Pygmalion and The Scarlet Pimpernel. But he’s so bad in Gone with the Wind!

  34. 34
    Mike in NC says:


    I liked him a lot better in the submarine movie with Burt Lancaster. Run Silent, Run Deep.

    The sequel was called Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.

  35. 35
    Spaghetti Lee says:

    Speaking of Valentine’s Day and Wingnuts…http://livewire.talkingpointsm.....ein-hitler

    I just can’t comprehend how these people think. “Hey, boss, you got the Hitler-themed Valentine’s Day cards! This will be great! Everyone will love us for our wit and charm!”

    As for Tweedledee and Tweedledum up there, it amazes me how the wingnut shit parade never ends. I’ve never heard of these two, but no doubt they have plenty of listeners. It’s like Fox, Clear Channel, Murdoch and the rest are big clumps of shit, covered in ever-smaller clumps of shit, down to the atomic level.

  36. 36
    Baud says:

    @Thoughtful David:

    Rashes are the new poll taxes.

  37. 37
    Baud says:

    Lautenberg not running for reelection.

  38. 38
    Patricia Kayden says:

    200,000 Floridians giving up their right to vote because of unnecessarily long lines is a national embarrassment and tragedy. Hopefully, Floridians will vote out the Skeletor asap and put in someone who values democracy.

  39. 39
    Rosie Outlook says:

    I recommend The Twilight Samurai as the ideal Valentine movie. If you like your love stories to have happy endings, STOP THE MOVIE right after the scene of Tomoe and Seibei hugging on the porch ends. If you like bittersweet, go all the way to the end of the movie.

  40. 40
    Lord Jesus Perm says:

    Having listened to John McCain’s grandstanding today, I can honestly say that I liked him better when he was in Hanoi.

  41. 41
    Mr Stagger Lee says:

    When will Rupert Murdoch die, so maybe one of his heirs(supposedly more progressive than dad) can run Roger Ailes the fuck out, and maybe make Fox News respectable? Yeah Rainbow Ponies are more realistic.

  42. 42
    freelancer says:

    @Spaghetti Lee:

    I can’t remember who coined it, but the term fractal wrongness comes to mind.

  43. 43
    NotMax says:

    Would like to be a fly on the wall afterwards were MacCallum and Hemmer forced to stand for the entirety of one single broadcast of their program.

    Also too, no one outside of the FOXverse is holding her up as a victim. She is an exemplar of the free exercise of the right to vote being the victim of policies intentionally put into place to squelch it.

  44. 44
    Rosie Outlook says:

    Sorry about repeating myself repeating myself. FYWP. (IPhone recognizes FYWP as a word!)

  45. 45
    ChrisNYC says:

    Nice to see that Weigel has come around to being pro umm voting. Back in April he was all about the “vote integrity” movement, chatting about the evil vote fraudsters with the repellent John Fund and Artur Davis. He described Davis as “ringing bells about voter fraud.” Hahahaha. What vile nonsense.

  46. 46
    handsmile says:

    @gogol’s wife: , @Mnemosyne:

    [I was just finishing up a comment on Leslie Howard and “The Petrified Forest” when I saw M.’s reply.]


    Each time I watch the film, I pray that Bogart, as dangerous gangster Duke Mantee, will finally do what any decent human being would do, and shoot the insufferable, sanctimonious Howard long before he finally does.

    You might imagine that Ashley Wilkes is insufferable and sanctimonious, but he’s a crude barbarian compared to Howard’s Alan Squier.

    ETA: And now back to “New Scandinavian Cooking” with Andreas Viestad…

  47. 47
    Caliph Garrett says:

    Can you imagine if these fuckfaces had to spend even a fraction of that time in line at a post office, or the DMV? Why, it would be an indictment of the entire government, and proof everything must be privatized, etc.

  48. 48
    Cacti says:

    Long lines are often alleviated by early voting…

    Which the GOP also wants to end.

  49. 49
    WereBear says:

    @Mnemosyne: Mmmm. Mimsy Hopkins or Joan Fontaine. Tough choice.

    Unfortunately, Mr WayofCats (who has a chronic illness) wore himself out putting together “my” new pantry with the kitties today. We watched a couple of Jeeves & Wooster episodes before he crashed. However, we have a whole long weekend together so I’m not neglected.

    He and the cats had fun with the previous kitchen acquisition, too.

    But we will both enjoy finally getting this upgrade in place. It’s hard enough to find things; much less digging through boxes for them.

  50. 50
    Mike in NC says:

    @TriassicSands: I read his alibi and he doesn’t have a leg to stand on.

  51. 51
    Litlebritdifrnt says:

    Is it just me or is Fire Fox completely borked, I cannot access drop down boxes, I cannot post anything that involves capital letters or any upper case symbols, or anything for that matter. What the fuck.

  52. 52
    NotMax says:

    @Rosie Outlook

    An oddball entry I’d throw into the Valentine’s film ring is Tampopo.

    Not a traditional love storyline, as the object of the romance is the perfect bowl of ramen. (No, not in that way; it is perfectly chaste.)

    Regardless, a must watch movie. Lots o’ fun.

    Add me to the list of those who have never seen (and have no desire to watch) GWTW.

  53. 53
    Cacti says:


    I was just thinking about Oscar Pistorius, the NRA’s next celebrity spokesperson

    I’ve looked at the evidence, and the guy doesn’t have a leg to stand on.

  54. 54
    raven says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt: Did you not read NotMax’s reply to you on the last thread?

  55. 55
    Fluke bucket says:

    Oh how I love the Paul Broun ads.

  56. 56
    schrodinger's cat says:

    Since this is an open thread, I have a question. Going for dinner and a movie this weekend. Two candidates for the movie are Argo and Les Miz. Any suggestions?

  57. 57
    Baud says:

    Watching Rachel. Oklahoma’s pre-K program sponsored by okie dem. Good for him.

  58. 58
    raven says:

    @Fluke bucket: Then you’d love to run into him in Home Depot.

  59. 59
    NotMax says:


    Responded in earlier thread, here.

    However, just the little bit of extra info you gave above more strongly suggests a sticking key on the keyboard, possibly one of the Ctrl keys.

  60. 60
    Rosie Outlook says:

    @Spaghetti Lee: Gee. All I got was a lousy Stalin valentine. The coveted Hitler went to that knob-polisher in the next cubicle.

  61. 61
    Mr Stagger Lee says:

    @NotMax: Personally I go with Run Lola Run. Lola tries to save her boyfriend who seriously screws up a money transfer, with alternative sequences. I love the music.

  62. 62
    WereBear says:

    @Mnemosyne: I find it extraordinary that every Caucasian in the movie is massively dysfunctional. Even that durn Melanie is an enabler.

    But then, I lived in the South, and this does not surprise me :) People who clung to the Lost Cause… were.

  63. 63
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @efgoldman: That’s me. My husband kept bothering me to watch it and I finally did a few years ago. Slavery apologia to the hilt. I’m glad I watched it because apparently some of the Black actors/actresses were actually children of slaves (ironic given the pro-slavery tilt of the movie) and it is an important iconic film.

    The “I don’t know nothing bout birthin’ no babies” woman was an atheist, which kind of surprised me.

  64. 64
    Cacti says:

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    Two candidates for the movie are Argo and Les Miz. Any suggestions?


  65. 65
    mai naem says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: Take some alcohol in a spray bottle and spray down the seat to get rid of any bed bugs that may be on the seats. Oh, you were asking about movie suggestions? I dunno.

  66. 66
    opie_jeanne says:

    @Rosie Outlook: Meh. My boyfriend in college (1968) took me to see it at a drive-in theater in his convertible Karmann Ghia when I had a nasty cold. I mean, I was really sick. It was Thanksgiving. Mr opie_jeanne had stolen his thunder already, by having a hilariously awful centerpiece flower arrangement delivered to my parents’ house just as he pulled up at the curb (I was irritated, my parents were highly amused).

    The timing was accidental and brilliant: Barry sulked because of it and because I was so sick and because I thought Scarlet was a pain in the ass. The dear boy did bring me hot chocolate from the concession stand twice and wrapped me up in his coat, but I married Dave anyway. I mean, Barry had seen that damned movie 6 times and wept every time. I thought it was bunk.

  67. 67
    Maude says:

    The book Gone With The Wind was harsher than the movie.
    Scarlett was a greedy grasping, mean, self absorbed woman.
    The movie is beautiful as far as the cinematography goes. In the theaters, when it was a new movie, there was an intermission. Same for Lawrence of Arabia.
    The Fox people, well, I’m using the word people, are just too special to have to do anything that’s not fun to them.
    They probably pull wings off of flies during the commercial breaks.

  68. 68
    Mike in NC says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: Both Argo and Les Miserables were great, but I’d give a slight edge to Ben Affleck’s movie.

  69. 69
    Maude says:

    #57. I’m of FF 18 updated. It’s fine. I;d uninstall and reinstall.

  70. 70
    raven says:

    @Maude: It’s on TCM, no commercials.

  71. 71
    WereBear says:

    @gogol’s wife: One of my favorite Leslie Howard roles was in 49th Parallel. It’s a WWII movie set in Canada. With Lawrence Olivier as a patriotic fur trapper.

    Lots of fun. With a young Glynis Johns.

  72. 72
    mouse tolliver says:


    Sometimes, I’m a touch astounded at just how bloody awful every person who works on camera at Fox News truly is.

    Remember, Hemmer used to work for CNN. As did Beck and so many other current Fox News employees. There’s a reason why CNN seems like Fox-lite most of the time.

  73. 73
    Richard Fox says:

    I know GWTW has lots of ummm…. “issues” shall we say? But Vivien Leigh is just one of the greats. I would have loved to see her on stage. Rare to see great acting ability combined with such a perfect face…

  74. 74
    Francis says:

    @raven: thanks.

    Some day I’d love an open thread consisting only of people’s jobs. Getting fired may turn out to be a blessing; after 20 years of practicing law I’ve come to fvking hate it. Time to do something completely different,

  75. 75
    raven says:

    @Francis: You do have a foundation. I was half-way through a doctoral program so I was fortunate.

  76. 76
    gelfling545 says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: For cooking, fine. For drinking, definitely not. Freeze it in ice cube trays, then put into plastic freezer bags.

  77. 77
    sb says:

    @Rosie Outlook: Two of the best fight scenes I’ve ever seen. The movie was too slow for me in spots but I enjoyed it. Good recommendation.

  78. 78
    sb says:

    @Rosie Outlook: Two of the best fight scenes I’ve ever seen. The movie was too slow for me in spots but I enjoyed it. Good recommendation.

  79. 79
    Alison says:

    @Richard Fox: Yeah, I admit, it’s one of those where I know the story is super problematic from a liberal POV, but damn it, I just love the movie. And I mean…I think it’s okay to watch something like that *knowing* there’s some fucked up shit going on and enjoying it as like…I don’t know, a sociological commentary, or whatever.

    I mean, hell…the dress made from the curtains was awesome. Earliest known Project Runway challenge! :P

  80. 80
    mouse tolliver says:

    Can anyone recommend a good keyboard to go with a Kindle Fire HD 8.9? I need a keyboard with crunchy keys. And preferably something that comes with a cover.

  81. 81
    Maude says:

    Only way to see it. It is an extraordinary film.
    The first scene shot was the burning of Atlanta and that’s when Vivian Leigh went up to Selznick and applied for the part of Scarlett.
    Didn’t know if you knew that. I think it’s a great bit of history.

  82. 82
    different-church-lady says:


    With Lawrence Olivier as a patriotic fur trapper.

    Won the Oscar for “Most ridiculous portrayal of a Canadian” that year.

    “Sure we heer der war on!

  83. 83
    Nick says:

    Wow, I hate Gone With The Wind so much. The only character I didn’t find totally repellent from the beginning was Rhett, basically because he was real-life-trolling everyone else. But by the end I hated him too. Throughout the whole thing, the following kept echoing in my mind: “I don’t care what happens to these people.”

    By the way, Prissy’s cringeworthy childlike personality makes a lot more sense when you learn that she actually is a 12-year-old girl in the book.

  84. 84
    gogol's wife says:


    Isn’t Miriam Hopkins divine?

  85. 85
    Matt McIrvin says:

    In antebellum-Georgia-related news, the libertarians are making noise again about how the minimum wage should be $0.00.

  86. 86
    Maude says:

    They weren’t nice people. That was the whole idea behind the book. At that time, not many people in the south were in good spirits.

  87. 87
    Richard Fox says:

    @Alison: I was a great fan of this as a kid, then hated it for years, for many reasons.. The inherent racism, the antiquated mores, values, etc. but when all is said and done, watching Leigh and Hattie McDaniel together is a joy. The character of Mammy has a dignity and wisdom that goes beyond the moment into something greater. She isn’t a stereotype because the actress refuses to turn her into one. Same with Leigh. Guess I really admire good actors. Can’t stand bad ones. On that note, can’t stand Nicholas Cage…

  88. 88
    Mnemosyne says:


    I think it’s come down to starting with Joan and then trying to watch Miriam if G can stay awake.

    (He has no chronic health problems that we know of — he just tends to fall asleep in front of the TV if he tries to watch past 9 pm. And then I laugh at him.)

  89. 89
    Mnemosyne says:

    @gogol’s wife:

    I have The Story of Temple Drake waiting for me on the Tivo. I’m a little afraid to watch it since I’ve read so much about it.

  90. 90
    NotMax says:

    Q: Texas?

    A: Texas.

    As marriage equality supporters prepare for marriage counter protests today, State Rep. Lon Burnam, D-Fort Worth, gave the LGBT community a Valentine’s Day gift in the form of HB 1300.

    The bill filed this morning would remove provisions in the Texas Family Code from 2003 that deny same-sex couples the ability to marry in the state. It would also allow Texas to recognize same-sex marriages from other states.

    “Marriage has been the greatest and most rewarding experience of my life,” Burnam said in a statement. “Continuing to deny all Texans the freedom to marry robs them of that experience and is detrimental to their families. Texans want a state where anyone can work hard and provide for their families. Our Texas values mandate defending the right of all Texans to have their rights and responsibilities as couples recognized by the state.”

    This is the fifth relationship recognition bill filed in two weeks in the Texas Legislature.… Source

  91. 91
    sb says:

    Anybody read “The Wind Done Gone?” One of my student’s parents loaned that to me last week. It’s on my reading list.

  92. 92
    gogol's wife says:


    It’s very interesting. Sick, but interesting.

  93. 93
    gogol's wife says:


    I’ve read it. It’s worth a read. It’s kind of a Wide Sargasso Sea treatment of Gone with the Wind.

  94. 94
    AliceBlue says:

    Vivien Leigh was with her agent, Myron Selznick (brother of David) at the burning of Atlanta scene. Myron took her up to his brother and said “Dave, I want you to meet Scarlett O’Hara.”

  95. 95
    different-church-lady says:

    @Nick: I always thought that was part of the point of the film: none of the characters were sympathetic.

  96. 96
    James Gary says:

    Re: “Gone With The Wind:” maybe it’s just my Gen-X (born in ’67) short attention span, but so many of the long-winded “classic” Hollywood blockbusters–GWTW, “Camelot,” “Lawrence of Arabia,” “Ben Hur,” “The Searchers,” etc. etc…just seem unbearably slow and boring to a 2013 viewer. There’s so much redundant exposition in all those films…they just drag to the point of near-unwatchability.

    As noted above, “Tampopo,” however, is genius.

  97. 97
    Spaghetti Lee says:

    I’ve never really gotten the point of not letting yourself enjoy something because of its politics. I like lots of stuff created by people with lousy politics. Enjoying the art and approving of the politics are, in my opinion, two separate and only somewhat related things. I mean, if you can’t bring yourself to see things from a different perspective in a work of fiction, how are you going to do it in real life?

  98. 98
    gogol's wife says:

    @James Gary:

    I saw Ben Hur, Camelot, and Lawrence of Arabia when they came out, and I can assure you, they were always boring.

    But I don’t agree that Gone with the Wind or The Searchers is boring.

  99. 99
    Suzanne says:

    My husband got me a Swedish massage, I got him a new pad for his digital drum kit. He sent me hilarious pictures and text messages all day. On Saturday, we’re doing a volunteer project, then going out for Ethiopian food and seeing the new “Die Hard”. And I ate frozen yogurt for dinner.

    Life is good. Can’t complain.

    And thank GOD I’m not on the floating cesspool of a cruise ship. Will never cruise. Ever.

  100. 100
    Mnemosyne says:

    @gogol’s wife:

    That’s what I’ve heard. G got me a book for Christmas a couple of years ago called Hollywood Censored that covers all of the ins and outs of the Production Code and how it ended up being implemented. The version that got to the screen was vastly cleaned up from the Faulkner version (where apparently she’s basically just an asshole who revels in being degraded and couldn’t care less if she ruins other people’s lives in pursuit of her kink).

  101. 101
    James Gary says:

    @gogol’s wife: GWTW definitely holds up best of my list in terms of entertainment value. But it’s just impossible for me to watch “The Searchers” with any interest–sure, it invented many of the tropes of the Hollywood Western than went on to become tired clichés, but in 2013 they’re clichés nonetheless, and nonetheless tired.

  102. 102
    Mnemosyne says:

    @James Gary:

    Lawrence of Arabia really is best seen on the big screen, especially if they give you an intermission (as intended) so you can digest what you’ve seen before diving in for the second half, where Lawrence’s life and plans all go to shit.

  103. 103
    TheOtherWA says:

    voting lines were asymmetrically longer in black and Hispanic precincts than in white precincts

    And this is why repubs hate Vote-by-Mail. No lines, no bullshit. Drop off your ballot at any mail box, or the ballot drop boxes setup around town.

    If they succeed in destroying the Post Office, the bonus gravy will be the end of vote-by-mail. Probably the only reason the local repubs haven’t been trying to sneak in bullshit voter ID bills. No point, yet. I’m sure they’re pre-written and ready to go.

  104. 104
    Alison says:

    @Spaghetti Lee: Well, and also, sometimes we’re not *meant* to support the politics of something. I mean, GWTW was made in the days of segregation of course, so…I don’t know about that one, but certainly with a lot of things, it’s the movie/book/tv show version of “RT does not = endorsement”.

  105. 105
    Robin G. says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: Argo. Haven’t seen it, but I promise it’s better than Les Mis. I’m still recovering from Russell Crowe’s butchering of “Stars”… not to mention that every scene between Valjean and Cosette made me think, “Damn, Hugh Jackman would be AWESOME in Lolita.”

  106. 106
    James Gary says:

    @Mnemosyne: Naah, I live in NYC and first saw “Lawrence” (full-length, with intermission) on the big screen at Film Forum a couple years back. Didn’t help.

  107. 107
    gogol's wife says:


    Well, a bit of that does remain in the film. It’s definitely worth watching.

  108. 108
    Alison says:

    @Suzanne: I have never ever ever seen the attraction in cruises. I’ve known a lot of people who’ve gone on them (mostly older relatives, but also some folks closer to my own age) and people always try to persuade you that you’ll love it.

    I would do the opposite of love it. I would hate it more than I’d ever hated any experience. I am 1000% certain of that.

  109. 109
    Mnemosyne says:

    Also, too — back when I was single, I told my therapist that I was holding out for a straight guy who loved Sense and Sensibility. She thought I was crazy, but I managed it. The only downside is that I have to live with the knowledge that if Emma Thompson ever showed up on our doorstep, G would be off with her like a flash. :-)

    Which is a long way of saying how happy I am to have married someone who says, “Sure, let’s watch Letter from an Unknown Woman tonight.”

  110. 110
    Maude says:

    It was in the book Memo to Selznick.

  111. 111
    sb says:

    The “Jesus is my Nigga” video from earlier–which was real, not a parody–is no longer available on youtube because of copyright reasons.

    Yeah, copyright–that was the issue.

  112. 112
    Maude says:

    They were 5 miles from port 50 minutes ago.
    I bet they can’t wait to get off that ship. The conditions are awful. And it must really stink.

  113. 113
    Yutsano says:

    @NotMax: Meh. I’m not holding out much in the way of any hope here. Texas is just way too much of a hickville mess in the backwaters to allow anything like this to move forward.

  114. 114
    gogol's wife says:


    I’ve got one of those too. He loves Sense and Sensibility. We haven’t managed to catch Letter from an Unknown Woman, but I’m sure it’s right down his alley.

  115. 115
    Suzanne says:

    @Alison: I cannot imagine a whole lot in life that I would enjoy less than a cruise. Shitloads of people, only very brief stays at the various ports of call, crappy activities, plus you’re trapped on a damn boat. It seems like traveling for the lazy and uninteresting. I would just want to stay in my room and read, and I’m sure I would have more fun doing that in my bed at home.

  116. 116
    Maude says:

    The cruise ship is at port.
    They did ID Dorner.

  117. 117
    Rosie Outlook says:

    @sb: Sanada Hiroyuki re-choreographed the fight scenes for The Last Samurai, which were originally choreographed in wushu (the American producers didn’t realize most Japanese viewers would know better). Since Sanada had to be on the set all day anyway he just fixed that for them.

  118. 118
    sb says:

    @Maude: Even when they port, it will take more than five hours to get everyone off the ship.

    They have only one working elevator.

  119. 119
    Suzanne says:

    @Maude: They better treat them all for dysentery.

  120. 120
    Mnemosyne says:

    @gogol’s wife:

    It’s directed by Max Ophuls. If you haven’t discovered Ophuls yet, you’re in for a treat. He was Kubrick’s favorite filmmaker.

    The Earrings of Madame de…
    may be easier to find on DVD and is also well worth it if the spouse does subtitles. If he doesn’t, keep an eye out on TCM for an Ophuls movie called Caught, with Barbara Bel Geddes, Robert Ryan, and a young James Mason.

    For some reason, Letter isn’t available on DVD in the US (or wasn’t a few years ago) so our copy is a region-free import from South Korea.

  121. 121
    Mnemosyne says:

    Movie sign! Gotta go.

  122. 122
    sb says:

    @Rosie Outlook: I didn’t see Last Samurai. Tom Cruise, right? Was that worth a look?

  123. 123
    Joseph Nobles says:

    Fox News 1955:

    “This Rosa Parks woman, she’s supposed to be some kind of victim? All she had to do was move back one row! Were her poor tired feet too lame for that?”

    “How was she going to walk off the bus, then?”

    “Exactly. Maybe Ms. Parks doesn’t understand that the Montgomery bus system is losing money?”

    “White people aren’t going to ride with black people in the same row. The city has to do something to get whites to ride.”

    “Hey, I heard Ms. Parks is a little more than just a maid. She’s actually part of a radical group looking to sue!”

    “Really? How about that?”

    “I guess Ms. Parks and her radical friends would prefer no whites ride the city buses and the city just keep losing money to ferry them back and forth to their dusting jobs.”

    “I think the city should just ‘park’ the buses in honor of Ms. Parks. Let them walk back and forth to their jobs for a while.”

    “Oh, yes! I bet the back of the bus will start to look mighty comfortable then!”

    “Ha-ha! Coming up on Fox and Friends, Eisenhower’s proposal for an interstate highway system: can the government really create jobs, or is this just another way the Warsaw Pact is secretly infiltrating our country?”

  124. 124
    waynski says:

    Does anyone give a flying you know what about this cruise ship?

  125. 125
    mainmati says:

    Lived in Britain for years and still find myself using certain words unconsciously, especially queue as opposed to line. I think it’s because queue sounds nicer than line. But didn’t get much into the any other many vocabulary differences, e.g.:
    cookie = biscuit
    (car) hood = bonnet
    (car) trunk = boot
    (car) windshield = windscreen
    dessert = pudding
    hot dog = banger
    …and many others besides these.

  126. 126
  127. 127
    Maude says:

    These poor people. There’s no power, they prolly have to use the stairs. There’s been no power for 4 days.

    I wonder how many of the passengers are ill.
    I’ve been across the Atlantic on a small ship. I can’t imagine how difficult it has been for them.

  128. 128
    eemom says:


    Shitloads of people

    You did what I see there.

  129. 129
    Maude says:

    Yes. There are 3,000 people aboard that ship.

  130. 130
    Suzanne says:

    @eemom: Not an accident. Apparently the crew told them to crap into their wastebaskets every day and then someone’s been collecting it. Considering that these people are probably preparing and passing out food with unclean hands, I cannot imagine the smell. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if they have norovirus or something awful.

    Cruising just went from a “naaaaah” to a “oh HELL no”.

  131. 131
    eemom says:


    These poor people.

    Agreed, of course.

    But if you can forgive the perspective of a quarter century in my dreary profession, once they are all cleaned off, rehydrated and recovered, they’re gonna sue Carnival into smithereens.

  132. 132
    TheOtherWA says:

    @Joseph Nobles: If they could have, they would have. Well done.

  133. 133
    Maude says:

    Of, course. I would. These aren’t cheap cruises. I bet the lawyers on board have a rough draft of a lawsuit written.
    The cruise ship companies have to figure out a way to get people off these huge ships when the power goes off. Wither that or make smaller ships. This type of thing is happening too much.
    How much for mental anguish? A lot.
    ETA BBC: over 4,000 on board.

  134. 134
    GregB says:

    If only these people aboard the ship had been armed all of this trouble would have been avoided.

  135. 135
    catclub says:

    @Maude: I say give them all a copy of “Endurance” (Shackleton’s Antarctic expedition) to read.
    Now _THEY_ had problems.

  136. 136
    Suzanne says:

    @eemom: Damn straight. There’s no excuse for a loss of sanitation merely because of a power outage. The E power systems should be designed in order to keep basic life and health safety systems working.

  137. 137
    Alison says:

    @Suzanne: Yeah, it’s basically like my version of hell. I am not a mingler, I don’t swim or gamble, I don’t drink, oh and I also hate being on the water. I don’t give a shit what people say about “oh, it’s different on a big ship”. STFU.

  138. 138
    catclub says:

    @Suzanne: If you can ever get on a ship that goes near ice, do it. I could just watch the water and ice for hours. Who needs the people?

  139. 139
    NotMax says:



    Oh, agree that – today – chance of passage is zilch.

    But that the bills are being submitted (and reported on) is the proverbial camel’s nose in the tent.

    In Texas’ case it is a camel, perhaps, with a record-breaking long neck, but the rest of the camel will eventually get into the tent.

  140. 140
    Maude says:

    There was damage from a fire.

  141. 141
    Suzanne says:

    @Alison: See, I want to actually SEE THINGS when I go abroad. I seriously don’t understand. Why, for example, would an American go to Europe for a cruise? Why not actually stay in one of the cities or the countryside and meet the people and eat the food and go see the beautiful architecture and museums and sporting events and shop? Why the hell would you want to stay on a damn boat and do the same thing you do when you go to Vegas? Why not just go to Vegas?

  142. 142
    NotMax says:


    Plus the ship was listing enough that gravity forced water and effluent to places they were not intended to be nor supposed to flow.

    Now, if only they had all had Macs, all would have been well. :)

  143. 143
    Yutsano says:

    @NotMax: I can just see the good ol’ boys now. “Daggummit, that durn camel’s stickin’ his nose in heah! Where’s mah thirty-aughtsix?”

  144. 144
    Suzanne says:

    @Maude: I know. In regular buildings in the US that can hold that many occupants, though, life and health safety systems are typically designed to work on E power so that even a disturbance of moderate size—fire, power surge, storm— doesn’t endanger everyone like that. I realize that a ship is not a building, but FFS, there is no way that that is not some huge oversight.

  145. 145
    NotMax says:


    Not a U.S. flagged vessel (Carnival ships are, I believe, registered in Bahamas).

    This treaty, plus whatever Bahamian governing authority there may be, are the main actors.

    Per the treaty, apparently the fire safety provisions worked as designed and intended and extinguished the fire.

  146. 146
    NotMax says:

    As we’re mentioning cruise ships –

    One of the most horrific maritime cases of the law of unintended consequences (retrofitted safety measures mandated after Titanic sank) was the Eastland Disaster.

  147. 147
    different-church-lady says:

    I’m cynical enough to think, “Oh, yeah, 5000 people got a 5 day taste of what it was like for maybe half of their grandparents/great grandparents/great great grandparents to come to America.”

  148. 148
    Groucho48 says:

    I not only like Sense and Sensibility, I also like Little Women, especially the Susan Sarandon version. If I ever decide I’m really not a bachelor, guess I know what to include in my bio.

  149. 149
    MomSense says:


    I love that!

  150. 150
    qwerty42 says:

    @Rosie Outlook: …It’s 3hours and 45 minutes of boredom wrapped around the burning of Atlanta. …
    Movie aside: I believe the sets for the old silent Intolerance were used for the burning. I have some dental work looming and I recall the statement “Sorry soldier, no morphine.” So then I had to look up the scene in Marathon Man, and considered cancelling the whole thing.

  151. 151
    John says:

    ” I cannot imagine a whole lot in life that I would enjoy less than a cruise.”

    Not if you think of it as cheap room and board (cheaper than anything on land in the Caribbean) while you snorkel or dive a different island each day. The ship is only for eating and sleeping.

  152. 152
    Pink Snapdragon says:

    @eemom: Passing out business cards, are you?

  153. 153
    Xenos says:


    But if you can forgive the perspective of a quarter century in my dreary profession, once they are all cleaned off, rehydrated and recovered, they’re gonna sue Carnival into smithereens

    No, language in 6–point font on the back of the tickets will compell them to go through arbitration. Federal jurisdiction here means SOL for serious damages.

  154. 154
    Darkrose says:

    @Spaghetti Lee:

    I’ve never really gotten the point of not letting yourself enjoy something because of its politics. I like lots of stuff created by people with lousy politics. Enjoying the art and approving of the politics are, in my opinion, two separate and only somewhat related things.

    I’m not saying this to say “You are a bad person,” but this is a prime example of privilege talking. It’s easy to say that you can separate the art from the politics when the politics in question aren’t about denying your humanity.

    Technically speaking, Birth of a Nation was a remarkable movie. It’s also a hideous apologia for racism that was used to convince Northerners that the KKK were the good guys, and to promote the same mythology that Gone With the Wind did later: that the Civil War was really the War of Northern Aggression and that black people really were better off under slavery.

    GWTW is “problematic” in much the same way Triumph of the Will is problematic. The art can’t be separated from the politics because the point of the art is to articulate the politics.

    Also, for more modern work, the issue of money comes in. I appreciate that Orson Scott Card has every right to be a hateful, lying homophobe. I also accept that his homophobia may not be reflected in everything he does, including his work for DC Comics. However, if I were to buy Adventures of Superman, OSC would gain financially, and I’m not going to give him my money so he can actively work to make me a second-class citizen under the law.

  155. 155
    Steeplejack says:


    Trouble in Paradise is a particular favorite of mine, not only for the “Lubitsch touch” but for Charlie Ruggles, one of my favorite character actors. Also a standout in Ruggles of Red Gap and Bringing Up Baby.

    Earlier today I DVR’d the 1937 version of The Prisoner of Zenda just so I can watch the amazing tracking shot down the stairs at the opening of the ballroom scene. The rest of the movie is good too.

  156. 156
    Darkrose says:

    @qwerty42: That’s interesting, about the sets for Intolerance being used, since Intolerance was D.W. Griffith’s response to the NAACP complaining about Birth of a Nation. It’s basically 3 and a half hours of “How dare you darkies be intolerant of my racism!” (Also, it’s really fucking boring. I had to watch it for my History of Film class.)

  157. 157
    Darkrose says:


    Lawrence of Arabia really is best seen on the big screen, especially if they give you an intermission (as intended) so you can digest what you’ve seen before diving in for the second half, where Lawrence’s life and plans all go to shit.

    Also, so you can go to the concession stand and get a bucket of something liquid. After watching him ride across the desert, I was so thirsty.

  158. 158
    Nick says:

    @Maude: But they weren’t even interestingly unsympathetic, or admirable in any way. I mean, I really like a lot of dramas and such which are filled with terrible people — the Godfather films, Mad Men, Game of Thrones, Caprica. But none of them had the effect Gone With The Wind had on me, where the burning of Atlanta happened and I was cheering “Yeah, take that ya bastards!”

  159. 159
    Anoniminous says:


    … the point of the art is to articulate the politics.

    IOW, propaganda.

    See: Riefenstahl’s Triumph of the Will

  160. 160
    Steeplejack says:


    Letter from an Unknown Woman now available from on DVD and Blu-ray.

  161. 161
    Mnemosyne says:


    We ended up watching Letter from an Unknown Woman. Turns out that G thinks a romantic movie is one where there’s a happy ending, not one where everyone dies in the end. I think it may be a guy thing. ;-)

    (He liked it, but was like, “Jesus, Grandpa, what did you tell me this stupid story for?!”)

  162. 162
    Spaghetti Lee says:


    I get your point, but at the same time, I don’t think GWTW can be fairly compared to TOTW. Triumph of the Will served no purpose but to make Hitler and Nazism look superior. There was no human element, and what can be described as ‘craft’ was put to the aforementioned purpose, not used for its own sake. GWTW may come to some bad conclusions about politics (and I wasn’t referring to GWTW specifically, having never seen the thing and speaking about art generally) but as I understand it it’s at least partly about human interpersonal tragedies as well.

  163. 163
    Mnemosyne says:


    I’m actually very happy with my Korean DVDs — the print was beautiful, if a bit soft. You could clearly see that it was Lisa’s husband in the carriage in the final sequence, which is not the case with every print of it that I’ve seen. It’s a three-pack that includes Le Plaisir and Madame de…

  164. 164
    Steeplejack says:


    Sounds like a nice package.

  165. 165
    joel hanes says:


    holding out for a straight guy who loved Sense and Sensibility.

    Congratulations indeed.

    How does he feel about Mrs. Gaskell’s excellent Cranford?

  166. 166
    opie_jeanne says:

    @Suzanne: I have been on two cruises, was forced on both of them by circumstances (youngest was an entertainer on both).

    Neither was run by Carnival but we met cruisers from Carnival and compared notes, and they were furious when they heard what ours was like for similar money. I think the first was Viking and I knew I would hate it but it was ok.

    The second was a Disney cruise in the Caribbean and there we were, two people in their 50s with no children, and it was AWESOME! Lots of other people with no kids and they had kid-free environments on the ship and on the island where we stayed for a day. The beaches were separated into a family beach about a quarter of a mile from the adults-only beach. I probably won’t ever go on another cruise because it’s really not my thing, but that Disney cruise was just great.

  167. 167
    opie_jeanne says:

    @NotMax: I have photos from my grandfather’s collection of that one, here:

    We were never sure if he took those photos or not. He was a professional photographer and lived near there but we know that he also purchased the negatives of some disasters and “art” photos because people would buy prints of them. Ahem.

  168. 168
    opie_jeanne says:

    @qwerty42: That’s interesting. My grandfather was a still photographer in Hollywood and he worked on Intolerance. We have a number of photos from the film, including a couple of shots of the missing harem scene, the one that is now considered by some to never have happened. Ha! The pillow fight by the girls wearaing smiles and jewelry and nothing else is pretty interesting.

  169. 169
    Steeplejack (tablet) says:


    Your link leads to a Yahoo sign-in screen (for people not already signed in, presumably).

  170. 170
    NotMax says:


    Sounds like one cool grandpa.

  171. 171
    Another Halocene Human says:

    @Spaghetti Lee: Seriously? How familiar are you with Triumph of the Will? I would consider that movie to be far more significant as a film than Gone With The Wind, which was a commercial success the likes of which have never been repeated.

    (On a level playing field, perhaps Titanic was greater commercially because television and cable and the intert00bs and video game existed.)

    Riefenstahl had a history of making films with racial themes that were appealing to the Nazi conception of race and Volk, and Hitler much admired her work, which is how she got the gig to film the ’36 Olympics. However, it has been often noted that she seemed captivated by Jesse Owens and portrayed Hitler’s response to his victory in a somewhat negative light, risking his ire. (She later went on to do a ton of still photography of Africans in the ’70s, probably fetishized or whatever because she was still a total racist to her dying day, she just wasn’t a xenophobic annihilationist like her Nazi cronies.)

    Triumph of the Will is the source of much consternation and interest because while the film was intended as propaganda (as were the Munich Olympics per se), Riefenstahl was not fain to make a crude propaganda film like the utter rot the Nazis had been flogging like “Hans Westmar” or vile, Jew-baiting garbage like “Jew Suess”. The film is more of an art film (it kind of drags in between impressing you, to be honest) and was to be Riefenstahl’s magnum opus. Unlike other German film industry greats who fled the continent when the Nazis rose to power and racked up further artistic and commercial achievements in London and California, Triumph of the Will would be the apex of her career.

  172. 172
    p says:

    “Triumph of the Will served no purpose but to make Hitler and Nazism look superior. There was no human element,”

    ah, so you’ve never seen the film.

  173. 173
    TerryC says:

    @Francis: Hey, you’ve got a wife and two dogs! And, you’re you. That’s a lot.

  174. 174
    bulworth says:

    @Frankensteinbeck: Yeah, and it isn’t like this woman was trying to buy a gun. Then any delay would be Tyranny!

    These people suck.

  175. 175
    Ash Can says:

    I remember when GWTW was aired on tv for the first time. I had never seen it or read the book, so I was looking forward to seeing what all my GWTW-fangirl classmates were fussing about. IIRC, it was shown in 2 parts (in prime time) because of its length. I barely made it through the first part and blew off the second. Visually, it was delightful, but I can never get into stories whose characters I don’t care about, let alone actively hate. Knowing that General Sherman wasn’t going to run his army over that entire fucking plantation an hour and a half into the film, kill off all those godawful characters, and ride off into the sunset, I gave up on the flick.

  176. 176
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Joseph Nobles: I’m sure the 1950’s equivalent to Faux Noise was saying just that about Ms. Parks and other civil rights activists back then.

  177. 177
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Darkrose: I don’t see how you can separate Gone With the Wind’s obvious support of slavery from the film itself. I cannot do it and won’t try.

  178. 178
    Rosie Outlook says:

    @sb: If Sanada Hiroyuki is one of your 2 favorite actors, yes, it is. Otherwise, not so much.

    If Sanada and Christopher Lee ever make a movie together I will be ecstatic.

  179. 179
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Another Halocene Human:

    I just found out that Conrad Veidt did a version of Jew Suss in Great Britain after he fled the Nazis, which was apparently an attempt to give a more balanced view of the character. It sounds interesting, but I have no idea if it’s available in the States.

    Veidt was so anti-Nazi that he claimed to be Jewish even though he wasn’t, just to piss them off.


    I’ve seen it. There is no human element, unless you think rows of shining blond boys shouting slogans counts as a “human element.”

    It’s basically a concert film, and Hitler is the Talking Heads.

  180. 180
    Joseph Nobles says:

    @Patricia Kayden: Even as I was writing, I was thinking that very thing. Sad, isn’t it, that the poison once whispered in secret is now openly modeled as cooler conversation on America’s number 1 cable news network?

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