Open Thread

Just a reminder, Downton Abbey is two hours tonight. Oh, the Grammy’s, also too.

Let’s count how many minutes this thread remains live before Anne Laurie stomps on it. The over under is fifteen minutes.

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260 replies
  1. 1
    cathyx says:

    You shouldn’t pick on Anne Laurie. She’s the only one who keeps this blog going sometimes.

  2. 2
    Corner Stone says:

    DRONEZ BITCHEZ!
    My name’s Zander and I hate you all! Good night!

  3. 3
    Knockabout says:

    Alllllllllllmost there, John Cole. Keep pushing it down man.

    I cannot stop laughing at this.

  4. 4
    efgoldman says:

    @Corner Stone: Keeriste. Now you’re gonna’ draw Zandar’s personal troll into another thread. Just have to poke the anthill, don’t you?

    ETA: And you fucking succeeded.

  5. 5
    Corner Stone says:

    @efgoldman: Yeah. Cole doesn’t actually read his own blog so might as well poke.

  6. 6
    Suffern ACE says:

    Trying to figure out the differences between hinds and does, bucks, harts and stags. I think I’m figuring it out, but it is useless knowledge night. Next up, work training video.

  7. 7
    The Dangerman says:

    Oh, the Grammy’s, also too.

    If you are a 6 foot, 270 lb, balding African-American, please steer well clear of the Grammy’s. Or, for that matter, SoCal. Thank you.

  8. 8
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Suffern ACE: “Knowledge is good.”

  9. 9
    Baud says:

    @Suffern ACE:

    You can spot a young buck by T-bone steak he’s eating.

  10. 10
  11. 11
    LT says:

    Cole already responded to Zandar’s post – last October.

  12. 12
    RobertDSC-iPhone 4 says:

    Watching Letters From Iwo Jima. Kind of meh.

  13. 13
    Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again) says:

    D.A.F.T.W.!

    When was the last time the Grammys were relevant? Were they ever?

  14. 14
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @LT: The drone thread was full of stupid; do we need to track it in here too?

  15. 15

    @Cockabout: We can’t stop laughing at you, either.

  16. 16
    Comrade Jake says:

    Fuck Downton Abbey, man, The Walking Dead is back!

  17. 17
    MikeBoyScout says:

    Grammys?
    What is this? A tribute to Grandpa Walnuts 5 years of constant Sunday yammering?

  18. 18
    Cassidy says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Attention trolls need attention.

  19. 19
    LT says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Hey it was already here like 8 times before I did that!

    And I get to bug Cole for letting teh stupid in here the same as you and anyone else, no? (I actually twittered him about it – then deleted it, cuz it should be kept here.)

  20. 20
    Maude says:

    @Baud:
    WIN and thank you.

  21. 21
    Mike in NC says:

    @RobertDSC-iPhone 4:Definitely the weaker of the two films. And after his performance at the Republican convention, Clint needs to retire as gracefully as possible.

  22. 22
    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN) says:

    Back from Columbus. The Gophers didn’t play particularly well this weekend, by their own standards at least, but they did win twice. 30-0 with four more games in the regular season. Amanda Kessel needs 26 points in the remaining 11 (hopefully) games to break the NCAA single season scoring record. Assuming she returns to school after being off for the Olympics next year she needs another 79 points to break the Gopher record for most career points by any hockey player, currently John Mayasich’s 298, and 83 points to become the all time leading scorer in NCAA women’s hockey history.

    Noora Rӓty needs two more shutouts to tie the NCAA career record and four more to tie the single season record.

    The team needs eight more wins to break the record of 37 in a season.

    Given that the next six games are two against Bemidji, two against St. Cloud and then two more against one of those teams again in the first round of the WCHA playoffs, I expect a lot of progress to be made towards all of these over the next three weeks.

  23. 23
    Mike in NC says:

    @Comrade Jake:

    Fuck Downton Abbey, man, The Walking Dead is back!

    Hoping for a mashup: “Downton Dead” with zombie English aristocrats could be cool.

  24. 24
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @LT: You are the one that caused me to write the comment. Could have been aimed at any of the previous ones. Nothing personal.

  25. 25

    @LT: It’s cute how you think Cockabout’s issue is with Zandar’s opinion.

  26. 26
    scav says:

    Or maybe attentiontroll is a cut-rate publicist trying to drive Zander’s post up the google charts.

  27. 27
    raven says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): The men’s b-ball team didn’t either! Go Illini!

  28. 28
    Comrade Jake says:

    @Mike in NC: all I know is I can’t wait for 9pm to roll around, because the Grammys suck rocks.

  29. 29
    Spaghetti Lee says:

    @Mike in NC:

    It’s been done.

  30. 30
    Mnemosyne says:

    @scav:

    Argh! Zandar!

    I don’t know why it drives me nuts that so many people get his name wrong, but it does. Probably because my IRL name is constantly misspelled and mispronounced.

  31. 31
    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN) says:

    @RobertDSC-iPhone 4: The book it’s based on, So Sad to Fall in Battle is very, very good. I haven’t seen the movie.

  32. 32
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Probably because my IRL name is constantly misspelled and mispronounced.

    Yeah, I bet no one has any trouble with your ‘nym though.

  33. 33
    mainmati says:

    @cathyx: Anne Laurie rocks. I am a big fan (of course I was originally from the Bay State).

  34. 34
    Mnemosyne says:

    This is an amusing and appropriate link:

    The 7 Most Unforgivable Grammy Award Snubs Of All Time

    It once again reinforced my feeling that Elvis Costello is not someone you want to get on the wrong side of, because that guy holds onto grudges forever.

  35. 35
    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN) says:

    @raven: After a great start, the basketball team remembered that they’re the Gopher basketball team, not the hockey team, and that they have a long tradition of sucking when it counts. (If they finish the season not sucking on the court, they inevitably sucked in the classroom and the season will be vacated.)

    This is slightly different than the football team’s longstanding tradition of just sucking in all circumstances. Fortunately, neither football or basketball is really all that important.

  36. 36
    scav says:

    @Mnemosyne: Sorry. wasn’t aiming for buttons, but I’m afraid I’m not quite up to perfection 24/7 in this lifetime. will go off myself, it’s a dull night in any case and I’m a bit grumpy myself.

  37. 37
    PurpleGirl says:

    Did not realize that Downton Abbey was two hours tonight. Is it the last episode of this series then?

  38. 38
    Comrade Jake says:

    @Mnemosyne: interesting read. Those are all terrible.

  39. 39
    LT says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: And just to note, it’s not just the opinion in Zandar’s post – it’s also that it was obvious trolling of Cole’s commenters. Nothing new, of course, but Christ. Why not just kick Cole in the nuts while he’s at it?

  40. 40
    MikeBoyScout says:

    @34 Mnemosyne: @Mnemosyne: Sweet. :-)

  41. 41
    JS says:

    If Rand Paul is getting airtime to give the Tea Party response to the State of the Union, I want to see Bernie Sanders give the Socialist response.

    Also, how can Rubio give the official Republican response in both English and Spanish without pre-taping at least one of them?

  42. 42
    MikeJ says:

    The Grammys are not about music, they’re about the music industry. When that is kept in mind there’s no surprise about how much it sucks.

  43. 43
    raven says:

    Wicked Tuna is on,

  44. 44
    Narcissus says:

    @Mike in NC: This week on Downton Dead, the Dowager Countess locks herself in the laboratory to prove the link between the zombie plague and the Spanish influenza using the corpses of Great War veterans.

    Kramer becomes a Freudian.

  45. 45
    Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again) says:

    @LT:

    So, wait…Just because I’m a bit fuzzy on your take on this…But you think Zandar was trolling Cole’s readers on that (much) earlier thread? Am I getting that right? Because, ya know, the hundred or so other times you typed those words earlier just weren’t taking in my brain. Zandar was trolling the readers? Right? LT? Right? LT? Is that what you’re getting at? LT? Is that it? LT?

  46. 46
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @efgoldman:

    @Corner Stone: Keeriste. Now you’re gonna’ draw Zandar’s personal troll into another thread. Just have to poke the anthill, don’t you?
    ETA: And you fucking succeeded.

    Good god, some people. Why do you even give a shit?

    It’s a blog. Not your life.

    …or…is it?

  47. 47
    Spaghetti Lee says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Some of those were pretty bad. But I do wonder why people who actively say how little they care about the grammys end up getting mad about who wins and who doesn’t.

  48. 48
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Yeah, I bet no one has any trouble with your ‘nym though.

    Nary a one. ;-)

  49. 49
    WereBear says:

    FYI, I still have to fill in my personal info. But I haven’t had to dump my cache, so Chrome will helpfully fill those in.

    I just went through more than 12 hours of rebuilding my financial information, so now I’m relaxing with a bit of liqueur (43) and Season 5 of Mission: Impossible on Amazon Prime.

    Gee, was there ever a better premise for a weekly television show? Maybe The Fugitive. But really, top five.

  50. 50
    Corner Stone says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Yeah, I bet no one has any trouble with your ‘nym though.

    Well, to be fair, “lying sociopath” isn’t all that difficult to work with.

  51. 51
  52. 52
    Corner Stone says:

    @Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again):

    Zandar was trolling the readers? Right? LT? Right? LT? Is that what you’re getting at? LT? Is that it? LT?

    Yes. Zandar is a troll. He’s a fucking trolling FP’er. He trolls his tiny little balls off here because he’s a sad little desperate man who simply can’t stand the idea that someone on the interwebs has criticized Obama. Zandar is a troll. He trolls here. He’s a fucking troll poster.
    Is that clear enough for you, you fucking authoritarian hump?

  53. 53
    Ultraviolet Thunder says:

    @jeffreyw:

    Wash your mouth out with…cookies.

  54. 54
    Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again) says:

    @Corner Stone:

    So Zandar doesn’t fit your orthodox view of what is “liberal”? And he’s a troll?

  55. 55
    JPL says:

    @PurpleGirl: Next week is the Christmas episode, That episode is ninety minutes.

  56. 56
    Suffern ACE says:

    @Mnemosyne: sure. Anyone can pick out the flaws of a group that has given out hundreds of awards over the years. But where’s the article on the top awards the Grammys got right? The best Grammy nods ever?

  57. 57

    @Corner Stone: If you keep projecting like that, you’re going to owe dues to the IATSE.

  58. 58
    Ultraviolet Thunder says:

    My wife has the Grammy’s on while I’m listening to record-albums on the headphones.
    Between sides I caught Justin Timberlake. I have to say that he does that thing that he does as well as or better than anyone else doing that thing. He’s good at it.

    And good at this.

  59. 59
    chopper says:

    @Self-Righteous Little White Guy:

    i’m tellin’ ya, the guy is an irony-killing machine.

  60. 60
    Corner Stone says:

    @Self-Righteous Little White Guy: Who are you again? Which ankle are you biting on?
    It’s so hard to keep track of you boring little motherfuckers.

  61. 61
    Corner Stone says:

    @Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): he’s clearly trolling in that FP piece. C’mon, admit it. Anyone here who says that wasn’t an ersatz Mac v Windows post is a damn liar.

  62. 62
    PsiFighter37 says:

    Hi friends, flying about 6.5-7 miles over your head as I traverse flyover country on the way back to NY. I usually never buy inflight entertainment, but my seat light points at the seat next to me instead of mine…so I get to do this instead of read Kurt Vonnegut’s ‘Galapagos’. Oh, and my flight left 90 minutes late, so I am arriving closer to 1 AM instead of 11. If I had known these clowns at United would have plane maintenance issues, I would’ve saved money and taken a later flight. At least I got a $100 e-certificate out of it, but goddamn that is annoying.

    Anything exciting going on Grammy-wise?

  63. 63
    The prophet Nostradumbass says:

    @Mnemosyne: The thing I think is telling about the importance and respect the Grammy awards get is that it is shown on tape delay in the city where the ceremony takes place.

  64. 64
    Suffern ACE says:

    So my training tonight is on active listening and building positive relationships for managers. I’ve been putting it off for months and have to complete it tonight or I’m on a list. A list. But I think I’m gonna try to create a zone of complementary action in this comment soon if y’all don’t settle your grievances.

    What can I do to help you feel safe and open to shared potentials?

  65. 65
    WereBear says:

    @Suffern ACE: What can I do to help you feel safe and open to shared potentials?

    You have made me LOL. Does that count?

  66. 66
    cathyx says:

    @Suffern ACE: A hug would be nice.

  67. 67
    efgoldman says:

    @Ted & Hellen:

    It’s a blog. Not your life.

    One troll defending another, eh?
    Its annoying the same way someone on the phone during a movie is annoying.

  68. 68
    Cassidy says:

    Someone’s been hitting the bottle hard tonight.

  69. 69
    Corner Stone says:

    @cathyx: I would also like a hug.
    Don’t judge me.

  70. 70
    srv says:

    Patraeus overthrow was a palace coup, led by his bodyguards, ex-SEALs say:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....z2KVQpNCmp

    Brennan running his own secret war behind the CIA’s back. Not sure how it makes sense unless DCIA is a demotion for Brennan, which it sorta is.

    Or maybe every SEAL is selling a book now.

  71. 71
    Corner Stone says:

    @Suffern ACE:

    What can I do to help you feel safe and open to shared potentials?

    I’ve been self taught on playing a funky bass. But I’m thinking of taking lessons. Tell me I’m not too old to embrace my dreams.

  72. 72
    Knockabout says:

    @Corner Stone:

    100% correct. And yet he’s still posting. Cole lets him.

    So why is that?

  73. 73
    Corner Stone says:

    @srv:

    Or maybe every SEAL is selling a book now.

    Probably a better decision than giving range instruction.

  74. 74
    Suffern ACE says:

    @Corner Stone: I’ll be the first to buy a ticket to your show at the Mercury Lounge. But I want comps to Irving Plaza or Webster Hall.

  75. 75
    RedKitten says:

    Gad…am I imagining things, or are people in the comments section a lot more pissy with each other than in earlier days?

  76. 76
  77. 77
    Corner Stone says:

    @Suffern ACE: I don’t actually want to play for an audience, except maybe just friends/family. I certainly am not looking to make money off it. Just enjoy myself a little. I think I’ve hit the wall where my limited selfness has taken me, musically.
    I still have a universe to explore of my unlimited selfness otherwise.

  78. 78
    Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again) says:

    @Corner Stone:

    And if he hadn’t put the Obot part in there, no one would have brought up the Obot thing, right?

    Whether it’s LT, Knockabout, T&H or you (amongst a handful of others), there’s always going to be one elephant*, so to speak, in the room whenever Zandar or Imani posts anything here. They bring the elephants out even when they don’t hang out the elephant crossing sign. Anyone who’s spent any significant time at this site would be disingenuous to state otherwise.

    *This is not to be taken literally. There is no actual elephant involved.

  79. 79
    Ultraviolet Thunder says:

    I’m sitting out the Grammys listening to Segovia records. I swear this recording from the ’50s had to be recorded outdoors. You can gear seagulls and waves in the background under the hiss from the vacuum tubes, recording tape and vinyl.

    And yeah, efgoldman, it’s me. Gone underground. I’ve unexpectedly attracted a small amount of flattering attention attached to my old nym so I’ve decided to be a cranky prick under a different name for a while.

  80. 80
    trollhattan says:

    Just now watching Friday’s Maher, asking for the Donald’s long form birf certificate proving he’s not an orangutan. He certainly has the “this raises even more questions” schtick nailed.

    One of next week’s guests is George Zimmerman’s brother. WTF?

  81. 81
    Corner Stone says:

    @RedKitten: What the fudge is that supposed to mean?

  82. 82
    Doug Galt says:

    You can’t stomp on an open thread. An open thread is a cry for more posts, IMHO.

  83. 83
    Corner Stone says:

    @Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): You ever consider the simple fact that they just fucking suck?

  84. 84
    MikeBoyScout says:

    @srv: Also too, Brennan is a secret mooselem :-o

    New Winger Conspiracy Theory Takes Flight

  85. 85
    MikeBoyScout says:

    DICK Cheney said
    “I believe we’re all going to pull together, work hard, dig in and do what needs to be done,”

    If by digging DICK means to dig his grave, count me in!

  86. 86
  87. 87
    Mike in NC says:

    @Corner Stone: I met a whole bunch of former enlisted SEALs when I was going through Navy Officer Candidate School back in the 80s. They were all complete assholes but that was probably to be expected.

  88. 88
    Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again) says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Sure, I’ve considered it. I don’t think they do. I considered the same about you before I ever saw their names around here.

    BTW: When the ultra-orthodox liberals get to define “liberal”, you won’t make the cut. Shoulda given up on the Texans- or rather the game they play- long ago.

  89. 89
    Narcissus says:

    @RedKitten: Yeah it is super bitchy lately

  90. 90
    Knockabout says:

    @Corner Stone:

    To be fair Doug, Soonergrunt and Mistermix are all third stringers too.

    But they don’t get a pass like Z and ABL.

  91. 91
    RedKitten says:

    @Corner Stone: It means that no matter what thread I read, someone always seems to have a problem with the person who posted it, or people are dragging fights with each other from thread to thread. It’s really quite tiresome.

  92. 92
    salsify says:

    Watching the Baftas to enjoy Stephen Frye hosting and the different angle to review excellence in the arts that comes from across the pond.

  93. 93
    eemom says:

    @RedKitten:

    are people in the comments section a lot more pissy with each other than in earlier days?

    Something’s in the air tonight, I think. Maybe a perfect storm of the Zandar post and all the stuff on teevee and some leftover angst from all the site fuckery last week.

    Whatever the cause, it certainly IS pissy in here this evening. Even I am feeling a bit….intimidated.

  94. 94
    MikeBoyScout says:

    @87 Mike in NC: Most of the Navy Seals I’ve known are stand-up guys. Sure, there are nutjobs, but the percentage of nutjob wingers with the Seals always seemed less than the proportion of those in the Ward Room.

  95. 95
    Yutsano says:

    @RedKitten: It’s been quite a Sunday. I haven’t checked, but maybe the moon is waxing.

  96. 96
    Knockabout says:

    @eemom:

    Or maybe Zandar’s post was so out of line that the community has finally had enough of his trolling bullshit.

    I say about damn time.

    Notice nobody is bothering to defend him. Not ABL, not Cole, not even himself.

    This was long overdue TBH.

  97. 97
    Corner Stone says:

    @RedKitten: Why are you being such a jerk about it all?

  98. 98
    SatanicPanic says:

    @RedKitten: It’s the same bunch trying to stir up trouble with the same fucking complaints each time. We’ve all heard 1000+ times that Imani is just trying to drag traffic to her site and that Zandar is an OBot.

  99. 99

    @Corner Stone: I left you a link trail to the origins of my new handle, but let me give you a hint: I’ve had two more posts elevated to the front page of this blog than you ever will.

  100. 100
    danielx says:

    @MikeJ:

    This is true. Music industry executives hate pretty much everybody involved in the music industry (artists, managers, audiences/listeners, etc) except themselves. Because all those other people are either making money that ought to be theirs (musicians, those shiftless drug addled bastards!) or stealing from them (goddamned downloaders!) or have too much power (who the fuck does Steve Jobs think he is, anyway?). Which explains a lot about how somebody can get a $150,000 fine for downloading a single song.

    Oh yeah, they really hate YouTube. (How dare those bastards advertise new artists without contracts for free!)

  101. 101
    askew says:

    So, the GOP is threatening a walkout over Chuck Hagel’s vote next week. So, will Levin cave again and postpone the vote?

  102. 102
    Spaghetti Lee says:

    @Self-Righteous Little White Guy:

    I’m going to guess you’re Colonel Mustard in the library with the wrench.

  103. 103
    Corner Stone says:

    @Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): I think they made it about as far as the Packers did. Which is to say, sitting on their keesters on Feb 3rd.
    And, honestly, I’m not taking any shit from you about liberal, orthodox liberal, ultra-orthodox liberal or Voltron liberal.
    You have displayed here, time and time again, that you are an authoritarian. That’s not a judgment from one of your “liberal betters”. That’s pretty indisputable given your comments and conduct here.
    Zandar and ABL post a certain type of post, and they pray to garner a certain type of response. They are both awful writers, shitty bloggers and just generally Obama partisans. Neither give two shits about democracy, policy or the larger sphere of politics. They write in a funnel, and are very happy when they can trap people in the tiny little spout at the end they have set up for them.
    They suck. Period.

  104. 104
    JCT says:

    @Mnemosyne: Yikes! Those were hilarious.

    Funny coincidence, husband is traveling so I was blasting music while cooking tonight — and I was listening to Costello’s “Imperial Bedroom” (1982). Was explaining to my eldest that there are few artists that jog my auditory memory as much as Costello — still remember the first time I listened to all of his work from about 1978 to 1988.

    Had just moved into my first apartment in Berkeley when Imperial Bedroom came out — the first bars of Beyond Belief still resonate….

    And GO BEARS — took down AZ tonight. Was offered tickets to the game but couldn’t bring myself to root against the home team in McKale.

  105. 105
    danielx says:

    @Self-Righteous Little White Guy:

    I’ve had two more posts elevated to the front page of this blog than you ever will.

    Dude: get a life. If this is something you consider an important accomplishment, you need to get out more.

  106. 106
    Corner Stone says:

    @Self-Righteous Little White Guy: I guess you think you’re pretty fly, for a white guy.

  107. 107
    danielx says:

    @jeffreyw:

    That kitteh is teh awesome. Best female cat we ever had was a calico who had an opinion on everything and wasn’t shy about expressing it. A great deal to say, on a wide variety of topics.

    She also instantly shifted her allegiance to our daughter after we got her home, but that’s another story.

  108. 108
    The Dangerman says:

    So, in the latest episode of Whack-A-Dorner (Yo, LAPD, that’s a reference to the game, not your desires), he’s been spotted in a Lowe’s in Northridge.

    Perhaps that Million Dollar reward wasn’t the best idea ever…

  109. 109
    Redshift says:

    @askew: A walkout? I can’t bear to look at a Politico link, so can you tell me if that means a filibuster, or if they’re just going to do some bizarre grandstanding and refuse to vote? Try to prevent the committee from having a quorum?

    It sounds bizarre. And frankly, it sounds like losing.

  110. 110
    RedKitten says:

    @Corner Stone: Um yeah…in this entire thread, I’m the big jerk for pointing out the increased level of acrimony. Right.

  111. 111
    Knockabout says:

    @Self-Righteous Little White Guy:

    With incoherent arrogance like this I’m going to guess you’re another one of the ABL crew. Emily Hauser and Chris Savage were smart to get out when they did.

    Too bad you weren’t.

    Go back and look at Zandar’s shit. Every post is dominated by the giant chip on his shoulder about white liberals who don’t worship Obama enough.

    Tonight everyone got tired of it. Cole has to do something about it now.

  112. 112
    Corner Stone says:

    @RedKitten: Why are you trying to give me a hard time about it?
    I swear, I don’t know what’s in the water round here but it seems like a lot of people have been extra pissy lately.

  113. 113
    Cassidy says:

    @Knockabout: Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha….whoo, breathe, ….Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

    Man, I’ve got an ego, but damn. The overblown sense of self-importance is amusing.

  114. 114
    Suffern ACE says:

    @Redshift: it’s a little weird. What it does is end the collegial bipartisanship of the foreign relations committee. If I follow that correctly, it would look bad for levin to be chairman that ended the string of 50 years of passing every military action, every arms program, etc.

  115. 115
    The prophet Nostradumbass says:

    @Knockabout:

    Every post is dominated by the giant chip on his shoulder

    that’s funny, coming from someone who only ever comments here in order to attack Zandar. Your foaming at the mouth rage at him posting here is pretty fucking pathetic.

  116. 116
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Cassidy: He’s right that tonight everyone is tired of something, he’s just wrong about what that is.

  117. 117
    Knockabout says:

    @Cassidy:

    Maybe.

    But I’m still right.

    Nobody’s defending him either.

    It’s starting to get comically pathetic.

  118. 118
    Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again) says:

    @Corner Stone:

    You have displayed here, time and time again, that you are an authoritarian.

    And why and to whom exactly? Is it because I supported the invasion of Iraq- which I didn’t? Is it because I think Ellsberg was right when he dished out the Pentagon Papers to Neil Sheehan, but I don’t think that what Bradley Manning did equates? Is it because I’m critical of Glenn Greenwald for making emotional appeals (American citizens are afforded no more right to due process than non-citizens, so stop beating that fucking horse!) when his arguments fail on their merits? Is it because I think that Aaron Schwarz’s actions would have a chilling effect on the digitization of the same information he so wanted to free?

    For the second time today, I’m going to use this word to describe your worldview: Manichean. Black and white. That I see nuance and you can’t or won’t doesn’t make me an authoritarian. It’s quite the opposite. Really.

    And , btw, it’s not the teams but the game that’s catching heat. It’s bloodsport, in case you missed the memo.

  119. 119
    askew says:

    @Redshift:

    It means a walkout so their can’t be a quorum. That plus Graham is putting a hold on Bennan and Hagel until he knows exactly what Obama was doing on 9/11 makes me want to punch Levin and other Dems for watering down Senate reforms.

  120. 120
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    @RedKitten:

    Consider the source. Opinions are like assholes and Cornerstone is one big Texas-sized ‘opinion’.

  121. 121
    Cassidy says:

    @Knockabout:

    It’s starting to get comically pathetic.

    Yes. Yes you are.

    Let me know how the great Balloon Juice Proletariat Rebellion of 2013 goes.

  122. 122
    p says:

    An estimated 26.2 percent of Americans ages 18 and older — about one in four adults — suffer from a diagnosable mental disorder in a given year.1 When applied to the 2004 U.S. Census residential population estimate for ages 18 and older, this figure translates to 57.7 million people.2 ”

    “As much as we want to think that these are just people behind computer screens, those people are living next door to you,” he says. “They are people behind computer screens in schools. In hospitals. Working in Washington, D.C. These are real people.”

  123. 123
    Suffern ACE says:

    @askew: inhofe is such an ass. His staff admits that Hagel has met the disclosure requirements of every passed defense secretary, but still will walk out because he wants more disclosure.

  124. 124
    Cassidy says:

    @SatanicPanic: Troll lacks self-awareness.

  125. 125
    David Koch says:

    based on all the teeth gnashing and hand wringing, Zandar’s post really stuck some nerves.

    hopefully, Obamacare will cover/treat thin-skins.

  126. 126
    askew says:

    @Suffern ACE:

    Yeah, they have no basis for walking out except trying to deny the President his nominees. The press will give them a pass on it again I am sure.

  127. 127
    David Koch says:

    Katy Perry’s dress fucking rawked it

    http://www.eonline.com/eol_ima.....021013.jpg

  128. 128
    amk says:

    @David Koch: Yup, plenty of noobie trolls. Also, too whiny corner stone.

  129. 129
    Suffern ACE says:

    @askew: went over to tpm discover Cheney weighing in about the picks. Not surpringly he hates them. But gosh damnit if he didn’t hit the Iran card, implying that all of the turmoil in the Mideast is due to Iran’s nuclear ambitions. Oh, and Obama is purposefully wrecking the military so that future presidents can’t use it.

  130. 130
    General Stuck says:

    Some things never change. And the wingnut wurlitzer scrubs clean its own back to bright shiny and new.

    A shocking new book makes dramatic claims about the motives behind the 9/11 terrorist attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi, Libya, that left Ambassador Chris Stevens and three other Americans dead. It also claims former CIA director David Petraeus was the victim of an internal coup by some of his deputies and bodyguards, who arranged for his extramarital affair to be investigated by the FBI, a highly unusual course of action.

    Fucking libtard spy conspiracy, to make the Boy King Generali’s pecker take up residence within a strange and un betrothed vagina.

  131. 131
    David Koch says:

    @Suffern ACE:

    Cheney weighing in about the picks. Not surpringly he hates them.

    Which means Brennan and Hagel must be great picks.

  132. 132
    askew says:

    @Suffern ACE:

    If we had a decent media, Cheney would never be given a platform to spew his views. Now, let’s see if the Dems give into the crazy GOP or if they actually manage to get Obama’s nominees confirmed.

  133. 133
    Corner Stone says:

    @amk: Good to see you friend! Fresh from sticking your face into the shit filled Ganges! Welcome!

  134. 134
    Jay Noble says:

    If the Armed Services Committee is 51% Democrats who are going to vote for Hagel, Let the GOP walk. That’s quorum. Dem’s have walked out in the House with same result – a visual protest that doesn’t change the end result.

    Quorum is why I question, the validity of Pro-forma sessions. Even by the minimum limits of quorum (gasp – only 11 Senators), Pro-forma sessions lack the ability to actually do anything in the way of business which I would say pretty much means you’re in recess.

  135. 135
    Suffern ACE says:

    @David Koch: he threw Kerry in for good measure. As to how I feel about the enemies of the Brennan and Hagel changing my mind. No comment. Have you ever gotten a fond feeling for a CIA director?

  136. 136
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Mike in NC: The SF guys in Army OCS were the same. Competent as hell, but pricks.

  137. 137
    askew says:

    I am less worried about not getting quorum than I am with Levin caving and agreeing to postpone the Hagel vote again. Also, worried about Reid honoring Graham’s holds. He’s refused to honor Democrats holds before but he’s always honored the GOP holds.

  138. 138
    Suffern ACE says:

    @askew: as an aside, is there some rule that says you need to accept a resignation of a cabinet secretary before nominating a new one? I didn’t much like panetta or petraeus, but who is running the show while the senate dodders?

  139. 139
    PsiFighter37 says:

    @askew: Seriously, can Democrats just start calling Repiblicans domestic terrorists? They basically want there to be no functioning government unless they absolutely get their way. And their way, of course, is that they have no fucking idea. It’s pure Calvinball when those assholes have power. They have no shame in being shitty little hypocrites when it comes to anything.

    Oh, and Dick Cheney can go fuck himself. Why the hell does anyone care what that asshole thinks.

  140. 140
    David Koch says:

    @Suffern ACE:

    Have you ever gotten a fond feeling for a CIA director?

    I thought Turner was good, so was Panetta. I think Brennan has done a good job at counter-terrorism and as coordinator for disaster relief.

  141. 141
    PsiFighter37 says:

    @askew: Levin deserves this crap after being scared shitless that the filibuster might get reformed. That said, he better not cave to that science-denying clown Inhofe.

  142. 142
    Donut says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Man, you need a break from the InterTubez. Stop posting here for awhile – go interact with some other people for awhile. Like, maybe some people who don’t make you agitated as fuck. What is or is not posted on Ballon-Juice is seriously not worthy of the emotion you’re investing in it. Not even close.

  143. 143
    Steeplejack says:

    @cathyx:

    A hug and a raise.

  144. 144
    askew says:

    @PsiFighter37:

    That’s my thought as well.

    @Suffern ACE:

    I don’t know about that, but I was worried when Panetta stepped down before Hagel even got out of committee.

    I know Obama won’t do it, but I’d love to see him call out the Senate GOP for obstructing all of his nominees over the past 4+ years. And note that there is a judicial vacancy crisis right now.

  145. 145
    David Koch says:

    Phew! Holy smokes! JLow and TSizzle really brought it tonite!

  146. 146
    Corner Stone says:

    @Donut: Mmmm…donuts…aaaallgghhghg…

  147. 147
    Suffern ACE says:

    @David Koch: yeah. I don’t actually like Panetta. I think he was supposed to lead a transition and jumped ship on that duty waaaay too early to get the CIA post. He was CIA director and it seems we missed the Arab spring. He jumps to defense and there is nothing in his record that says “wow.” Has he met a defense appropriation he didn’t like? Oh, let’s get involved in Libya. Apparently Syria, too.

  148. 148
    Steeplejack says:

    @RedKitten:

    I thought it would get better after the election, but it hasn’t.

  149. 149
    Steeplejack says:

    Does LL Cool J still have any “street cred” (if that’s what the yoots still call it)? I mean, he’s a star of NCIS: Los Angeles, which is like a modern version of The Mod Squad.

  150. 150
    Suffern ACE says:

    @Steeplejack: ah, but my next class is probably on how to make employees feel loved without paying them more. Your raise is provisional and based on objective performance metrics and other such things. Sorry, out of my hands. But we can still go out for wings on Thursdays.

  151. 151
    askew says:

    When I think of LL Cool J rapping, I think of his unfortunate deodorant issue during his unplugged. It was hanging in clumps from his armpit hair. It killed the sexy for me.

  152. 152
    amk says:

    @Corner Stone: Ah, as mature as only a firebagger could be.

  153. 153
  154. 154
    Yutsano says:

    @askew: For a side of beef like that I’ve been known to be rather forgiving, one could say.

  155. 155
    General Stuck says:

    Pleasant little blog you have here. I try to bring some peace and understanding, but the cage fights continue unabated. Think I’ll repair to the fainting couch, and have a spot of tea/

  156. 156
    Suffern ACE says:

    I just realized that we probably are going to go through this with Jack Lew. As chief of staff he might have known what time Obama went to bed on 9/11/12 and whether he had his evening cackle.

  157. 157
    PsiFighter37 says:

    @askew: Obama is too polite to do that, but it would be awfully nice to dream of him calling out the entire Senate GOP (and the House leaders) for shit like fucking that dead chicken known as the filibuster repeatedly, voting to repeal health care reforms a bajillion times, wasting money defending DOMA, and so on. He should just stop being nice and start playing serious fucking hardball. Issue an ultimatum – either you start playing the game within the rules, or you can own taking down the government and accelerate your political decline even faster.

    Either way, the SOTU seems like a nice place to start by stomping on the GOP and peeing in the eye of the Village Meatpressers for good measure.

  158. 158
    Debbie(aussie) says:

    @RedKitten:
    How goes life in the ‘kitten’ household with the arrival of Alex(?)? Hope you are getting plenty of sleep and samkitten is enjoying his new role as by bro.

  159. 159
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Steeplejack: He hasn’t done any relevant music in quite some time.

  160. 160
    askew says:

    In another annoying piece of news, Daily Kos is now in the Obama CT market. There really is no difference between the ODS on the left and the right. Both can’t handle having Obama as president.

  161. 161
    Steeplejack says:

    @Suffern ACE:

    Oh, cool, that makes everything all right.

  162. 162
    Chris says:

    @Suffern ACE:

    Was there really a tradition of collegial bipartisanship in foreign relations? I thought that pretty much went out McCarthy figured out that you could use anticommunist hysteria as a partisan weapon. That’s pretty much where conservatives have been ever since.

  163. 163
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @askew:

    There really is no difference between the ODS on the left and the right.

    I think you are largely incorrect about this. The right hates any Democrat and would find ways to question his or her legitimacy. With Obama, it is in overdrive, of course, for rather obvious reasons. OTOH there are many on the left who simply are not willing to accept the compromises that a successful politician must make in order to reach the top. I think many of them expected that Obama would be different and their disappointment has been extreme.

  164. 164
    Corner Stone says:

    @amk: You’ve got a little something there. A smudge or something in the edge of your cheek. You may want to wipe that off before you go out into polite society.

  165. 165
    SatanicPanic says:

    Bruno Mars and Sting- BARF. Together on stage- Double BARF

    Edit- fixxed my spelling

  166. 166
    eemom says:

    this is an open thread right?

    FUCK college financial aid apps.

    That is all.

  167. 167
    David Koch says:

    @PsiFighter37:

    He should just stop being nice

    On the other hand, one of his biggest assets is his likability.

  168. 168
    General Stuck says:

    @askew:

    I posted upthread the response from the wingnuts via John Fund. But thanks for linking the similar response from the left nutters. And yes, I think you are correct. When the bullshit washes away, what you have left is a shared antipathy toward president Barack Obama, for likely a host of reasons, some shared by the left and right, others not so much@General Stuck: .

    I got a belly laugh out of this at the end of the Dkos post

    Given that this article has been published in a British tabloid, it requires a lot of scrutiny,

    give it a no shit sherlock

  169. 169
    Suffern ACE says:

    @General Stuck: but published by a division of harpercollins owned by newscorp.

  170. 170
    askew says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I think you are largely incorrect about this. The right hates any Democrat and would find ways to question his or her legitimacy. With Obama, it is in overdrive, of course, for rather obvious reasons. OTOH there are many on the left who simply are not willing to accept the compromises that a successful politician must make in order to reach the top. I think many of them expected that Obama would be different and their disappointment has been extreme.

    I think you are dead wrong on this. There is a portion of the left who never supported Obama and has been twisting themselves into knots to find reasons to criticize him. They get their talking points from the rich, white, urban liberals on MSNBC and other places who have never given Obama even 1/100th credit or respect that he deserves. These same people never treated Clinton like this.

    On the right, it is the same thing. Clinton got more cooperation and respect than Obama ever has.

  171. 171
    askew says:

    @General Stuck:

    Given that this article has been published in a British tabloid, it requires a lot of scrutiny,

    What makes me nuts about the ODS suffering left is that they’ll give the benefit of the doubt to anyone in the media pushing anti-Obama talking points. But, Obama never gets that benefit of the doubt. Had this conspiracy theory been about Hillary being behind Benghazi they would have dismissed it out of hand. On DK, we’re not allowed to talk about why white reporters and the Clintons get more slack than Obama. But, it’s not just the right that has problems with racism.

  172. 172
    Spaghetti Lee says:

    Because I’m always at least 5 years behind with everything, I finally got around to downloading album art for my music library yesterday. I’m not sure how they nailed the cover for the obscure folk/world ensemble that performs at colleges and such, but had to punt on, for example, Paranoid and The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway.

  173. 173
    Spaghetti Lee says:

    @askew:

    You think it’s mostly a race thing?

  174. 174
    Corner Stone says:

    @askew: Arrgghh!! Blargghh!! Oogie Boogie Fucking Argly Diddly Blargly!
    Shut the fuck up you fucking douchebag idiot.

  175. 175
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @askew:

    There is a portion of the left who never supported Obama and has been twisting themselves into knots to find reasons to criticize him. They get their talking points from the rich, white, urban liberals on MSNBC and other places who have never given Obama even 1/100th credit or respect that he deserves. These same people never treated Clinton like this.

    I don’t disagree that such people exist. I happen to think that there is also a significant group who are uncomfortable with holding and wielding power and with those who want to do so. They are not necessarily wrong. To make it to the top in our system, one has to be ruthless and ambitious. Ruthless and ambitious people can be quite worrisome. It ain’t a bad idea to keep an eye on them. That being said, in our system, Obama is about as good and decent as we could expect to see.

  176. 176

    @Corner Stone:

    Arrgghh!! Blargghh!! Oogie Boogie Fucking Argly Diddly Blargly!

    A reasonable approximation of most of your comments.

  177. 177
    General Stuck says:

    @askew:

    I do think it has to do with race, and a different form of racism we’ve seen on some parts of the left. I don’t think some of these folks can subordinate their egos to a black man that is president from their side of the isle. Nor easily accept a man with consumate political skills of his own.

    I think they have given him very little slack and made judgments of his success through the lens of the ideal, rather as compared to past dem presidents. And when they have been most frustrated with the process and compromise short of the ideal, have taken up known racist memes, that belittle Obama in very personal ways, as being inadequate and attacks on his manhood. It is a more insidious form of racism, and not to be compared with the violence tinged racism of the right, but there nonetheless. We have discussed this many times on this blog.

  178. 178
    freelancer says:

    Anybody else use Google Reader for their RSS? And if so, has it been going apeshit in the last couple hours?

  179. 179
    General Stuck says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I don’t disagree that such people exist.

    Spend more time reading comment sections of the most successful and prominent left wing blogs. And front page posts riddled with all sorts of ODS coded encouragement

  180. 180
  181. 181
    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN) says:

    @PsiFighter37: There really is a part of me that wishes that Obama would deliver the STFU address.

  182. 182
    General Stuck says:

    @Hypatia’s Momma:

    So tiny, and seems like their eyes haven’t opened yet. Thanks

  183. 183
    Suzanne says:

    Oh, how cute.

    I can see the headline: LL Raps, Thinks He’s Relevant.

  184. 184
    Hypatia's Momma says:

    @General Stuck:
    ha ha, just you wait.

  185. 185
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @General Stuck: I don’t see why I need to do that. I accept that the people you and askew are talking about exist. I just don’t think that they constitute the whole of the Obama “opposition” on the left.

    In addition, I have a more realistic/cynical/non-utopian set of expectations for politicians than the people I was describing. Pure idealists are important though. If the ideal is being held out there, then people are simply fighting for position and status. If the ideal is being held up by someone, we can judge whether a deal or a compromise moves us closer to that ideal and whether what is being given to get that deal makes that deal worthwhile.

  186. 186
    wheresmynymdammit says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Pretty strong case that the Grammys are about the most useless awards show ever. At least the Oscars generally have the good sense to award films and the people who made them that hold up over time, despite basically being a black tie circle jerk.

  187. 187
    Yutsano says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): It’s not like he has anything to lose. And there are just enough traitors to the Republican cause for Nancy to be de facto Speaker over the Great Oompa-Loompa should it become necessary. Right now Miss Lyndsey will continue to be quite put out until s/he knows the exact location of Obama every second on September 11th 2012 with verifiable witness accounts, then find something else to get bitchy about. The Senate is a clown show right now.

  188. 188
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Yutsano:

    The Senate is a clown show right now.

    Right now?

  189. 189
    General Stuck says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I just don’t think that they constitute the whole of the Obama “opposition” on the left.

    This is why I suggested reading more of the writings of the internet activist community, and you might be surprised at the breadth and depth of intense antipathy most of these folks have toward Obama. And I can find no real evidence the right wing is any more discerning about their judgments on Obama.

    Balloon Juice is the exception rather than the rule, that for whatever reason, has a sizable and feisty population of un apologetic Obama supports. There are a few others, but only a few like BJ, and a lot haters, just as passionate a hatred of Obama than any mainstream right wing blog.

  190. 190
    Redshift says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Right now?

    Peak Clown Show is a lie. But it has gotten worse.

  191. 191

    @General Stuck:

    Balloon Juice is the exception rather than the rule, that for whatever reason, has a sizable and feisty population of un apologetic Obama supports. There are a few others, but only a few like BJ, and a lot haters, just as passionate a hatred of Obama than any mainstream right wing blog.

    I like Lawyers, Guns and Money as well. Not as many comments as here, certainly, but there’s a variety, and as its own oddities as well. There’s some crossover in the commenters, too.

  192. 192
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @General Stuck: I was not denying the antipathy. I was suggesting the reasoning behind it might spring from different causes with different groups.

  193. 193
    Higgs Boson's Mate says:

    @Yutsano:

    Right now Miss Lyndsey will continue to be quite put out until s/he knows the exact location of Obama every second on September 11th 2012 with verifiable witness accounts, then find something else to get bitchy about. The Senate is a clown show right now.

    Graham’s dearest hope is to find the equivalent of the August, 2001, Presidential Daily Brief. That was the one entitled “Bin Laden determined to strike in US.” Just as Clinton had to be impeached in retaliation for the impeachment of Nixon, so Obama must be accused of The Greatest Security Failure Evar.

  194. 194
    General Stuck says:

    @The prophet Nostradumbass:

    I like LGM as well. But just can’t deal with the comment section format trying to figure out who is responding to who and the like. I think a main reason I have stuck with BJ through thick and thin, as it simply has the best and relaxing formats on the blogs. Maybe that’s just me, but about all the other blogs have a more or less cramped feel to them.

  195. 195
    General Stuck says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Okay :)

  196. 196
    Hill Dweller says:

    @Higgs Boson’s Mate: They’re going to have a tough time finding an equivalent considering it happened in a remote area of a foreign country, with a huge CIA operation headquarters just down the street.

    That said, they’ve never needed evidence for their crazy ass theories.

  197. 197
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Higgs Boson’s Mate: I don’t see how a fuck-up in which four people in a reasonably dangerous part of the world are killed can be compared to people flying airliners into skyscrapers in the NYC. Failure of imagination on my part? Perhaps.

  198. 198
    Yutsano says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Point taken.

    @Higgs Boson’s Mate: Miss Lyndsey just wants to find ANYTHING to pin on that durn one in the White House so s/he can get the Orange Man to start impeachment. They really think if they take Obama out they automatically get the White House and Republican utopia will flower across the land. It’d almost be cute if it weren’t so pathological.

  199. 199

    @General Stuck: Their comment format there doesn’t bother me, really, as I was used to reading comment sections like that from places like Slashdot and Kuro5hin.

  200. 200
    Donut says:

    @askew:

    Say what??? Did you live through the 90s? The same people (or their contemporary equivalents) not only treated the Clinton’s like that, they fucking impeached him over nothing more than lying to protect himself from embarrassing behavior. Do you understand how many presidents have been impeached? Do you understand that was a failed coup attempt? Wow. Just…wow. I’m appalled at the way Barack Obama is treated sometimes, but ferfucksake, let’s not pretend like he’s the first president to get this bullshit from the Right and their buds in the media.

  201. 201
    Jewish Steel says:

    @The prophet Nostradumbass: Great commenters over there. But I too find the format a less satisfying experience. I always feel like I’m missing something unless the thread is pretty well dead.

  202. 202
    Higgs Boson's Mate says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Most of us here understand it just the way you do. The people who re-elected Bush, not so much, and the people who still believe that Saddam was involved in 9-11 even less. Finally, there are the 27% who would readily believe that Obama had Chris Stevens killed by US special forces because Stevens was about to reveal that Obama was having a secret affair with his boyfriend.

  203. 203
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Jewish Steel: I like the chronological format here. It can cause less focused discussions, but it also leads to some of the more interesting ones.

  204. 204
    Jewish Steel says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Yes, I can see that, now that you mention it. It’s a format that leads to fruitful derailment.

  205. 205
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Higgs Boson’s Mate: So, in effect, what you are saying is that my inability to see the equivalence is a sign of relative mental health.

  206. 206
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Hypatia’s Momma:

    Whenever I look at those photos, I always tell Keaton that he has an identical cousin who lives in Canada. Maybe we can get them a sitcom.

  207. 207
    Higgs Boson's Mate says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    You are correct. OTOH, the Republicans slipped the surly bonds of mental health years ago.

  208. 208
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Jewish Steel: It is also why I like Cole’s policy of avoiding bannings. I don’t pie people. You never know what is going to spark a good thread. OTOH some really fucking suck.

  209. 209
    wasabi gasp says:

    @General Stuck: Maybe it’s not racism, maybe they’re just bored. Tomato Topapaoommowmow.

  210. 210
    Hill Dweller says:

    @Donut: The impeachment and government shutdown was a joke(although it ultimately helped Clinton), but for the most part, Clinton was allowed to govern.

    During Obama’s first term(first two years especially) Republicans shattered filibuster records. They blocked so many Obama nominees, both executive and judicial. In the last couple of years, it’s been hostage situation after hostage situation. There is no equivalent to the level of obstructionism Obama has faced.

  211. 211
    askew says:

    @Donut:

    Say what??? Did you live through the 90s? The same people (or their contemporary equivalents) not only treated the Clinton’s like that, they fucking impeached him over nothing more than lying to protect himself from embarrassing behavior. Do you understand how many presidents have been impeached? Do you understand that was a failed coup attempt? Wow. Just…wow. I’m appalled at the way Barack Obama is treated sometimes, but ferfucksake, let’s not pretend like he’s the first president to get this bullshit from the Right and their buds in the media.

    The difference is that Clinton didn’t have the entire liberal media helping the right target him. Clinton had the party apparatus and CNN. Who does Obama have to defend him? No one in the media outside of Rev. Sharpton and the party apparatus has been MIA on defending Obama in the media. Outside of a handful of Obama surrogates – Axelrod, Plouffe, Cutter and Gibbs, Obama’s been on his own. And Clinton didn’t have to deal with a media and left that worshiped Carter the way today’s media and left are worshiping Clinton.

  212. 212
    Donut says:

    @Donut:

    Oh, and I don’t know what you’re smoking, but the same ideological cohort that identify as “left” back in the 90s fucking DETESTED Bill Clinton. Welfare reform? Left hated it. NAFTA. Left hated it. Bosnia? Total freakout on the left. War in Drugs? Not exactly a big with win for lefties. DADT? DOMA? Yeah, truly embraced by the far left. Health care reform fucked up? Durrrrrr, not a happy day for liberals. Fucking Ralph Nader hated the DLC crowd so much he went on a personal vendetta against Gore and fucking helped install Dubya in the White House. Those are just a couple of quick examples for you, and it would be easy, if I cared any more, to think up many

  213. 213
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Hill Dweller: The question is how much of that obstruction is related to Obama qua Obama and how much is due to the fact that the GOP has gone off the fucking rails. I think there is an element of feedback loop involved.

  214. 214
    eemom says:

    @Donut:

    There’s a rather major difference, however, which I think is worth pointing out, though MMV as to the significance.

    Clinton WAS a fucking irresponsible asshole to do what he did and then to lie about it — thereby leaving himself — and the rest of us — exposed to the result.

    That’s in no way to excuse or condone, much less justify, the impeachment circus — but that’s just rather a huge difference from the kind of unprecedented disrespect leveled at Obama that he did NOTHING to deserve.

  215. 215
    Higgs Boson's Mate says:

    @Hill Dweller:

    There is no equivalent to the level of obstruction Obama has faced.

    There won’t be until the next Democratic president takes office. The Republicans feel entitled to the presidency and that feeling has hardened over the years. Combine that with their embrace of nihilism and the beat will go on until they’re comprehensively beaten.

  216. 216
    Hypatia's Momma says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    Mango-Kitten about killed me.

  217. 217
    Hypatia's Momma says:

    Also, the box containing awesome is awesome.

  218. 218
    Donut says:

    @askew:

    What media are you talking about that went easy on Clinton? Who the hell do you think kept Whitewater and Paula Jones alive? Not just CNN. Rather, Jennings and Brokaw did “hard-hitting” stories on those nothing burgers for years. So did the Times and the Post, and here in the Midwest, the Tribune.

    To my mind, Barack Obama has way more liberal media voices behind him than Bill Clinton ever did. You must be high.

  219. 219
    Hill Dweller says:

    @askew: Clinton also benefited from a really good economy for most of his presidency. Granted, he had a hand in that good economy, but he also got a boost from the tech boom.

    When the economy is humming, people are happy, and it’s hard to get the bullshit to stick to a politician.

  220. 220
    Yutsano says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I think distilling the exact cause won’t be known until long after Obama is out of office. The fact is there are elements of both with residual flavours of racism also clouding up true motivations here. So we might never know for sure until it’s all over which element was stronger. I do know that it remains vital the semi-sane party keeps control of at least one branch until the fever on the right breaks. And if the Dems lose the Senate in 2014, Allah help us all, because government will stop.

  221. 221
    Hypatia's Momma says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    Two Fat Boys, One Catnip Mouse.

    I’d watch it.

  222. 222
    Hill Dweller says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    The question is how much of that obstruction is related to Obama qua Obama and how much is due to the fact that the GOP has gone off the fucking rails. I think there is an element of feedback loop involved.

    I think it is a combination of Obama’s race, the exploitable fear associated with a weak economy, and Republican insanity.

  223. 223
    askew says:

    @Donut:

    To my mind, Barack Obama has way more liberal media voices behind him than Bill Clinton ever did. You must be high.

    Name the Obama media voices behind him. Name the media cheerleaders. Rev. Sharpton is the only one. Maddow, Schultz, Matthews, O’Donnell, Olbermann, and Stewart have been unduly critical of him and give Obama almost no credit for what he has accomplished. Hell, Clinton still has more cheerleaders on today’s cable news than Obama has. According to Matthews, Clinton is the only reason Obama got re-elected.

  224. 224
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Donut: I thought askew was talking about the shit Obama, as opposed to Clinton, took from the left. But… That’s wrong too. The left never liked Clinton either, from the primaries and continuing through the budget fights, the wars, NAFTA, all kinds of things. Frankly I think the left, as much as they dislike Obama for not being partisan enough and also with the death robots and so forth, STILL likes Clinton even less.

    But in my view there are also people who are Obama critics not because they’re idealists or persons of impeccable principle, but because they have a lot psychologically invested in the idea of being skeptical and unsatisfiable people. And they egg each other on. I know this guy who’s an art history professor who wears, like, madras and tasseled loafers and looks for all the world like Tucker Carlson’s roommate at Choate, who is CONSTANTLY posting Occupy links and Greenwald and stuff on FB. At a certain point the issue is only somewhat what Obama is or isn’t doing–for a rather large number of people it’s also putting on a display that demonstrates how radical they, contrary to all appearances and the way they actually live their actual lives, actually are.

  225. 225
    Donut says:

    @Hill Dweller:

    A joke? You’re insane. I remember those events clearly. Neither one was comical. They were some of the most undemocratic actions ever taken in this country’s history. They were precursors to what we are living through now. I don’t agree that Obama has it rough, but again, no Democrat since Reagan has faced anything less from the Right while simultaneously getting attacked by ideological purists on the Left. As the cliche goes: it’s a feature of our politics, not a bug

  226. 226
    askew says:

    @Higgs Boson’s Mate:

    There won’t be until the next Democratic president takes office. The Republicans feel entitled to the presidency and that feeling has hardened over the years. Combine that with their embrace of nihilism and the beat will go on until they’re comprehensively beaten.

    The media would never let the GOP get away the filibuster and destroying the US economy intentionally under a white President. Just listen to major media voices and the way they talk about Obama. There are some white men who are having a hard time dealing with the fact we have a Black president.

  227. 227
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @eemom: Actually, I think that Clinton believed that the normal rules still applied and that no one in D.C. would give a flying fuck about some sex on the side. In retrospect, what happened was the the first sign of the sea change. Then Kerry believed that no one would actually question his heroism. I think he was ready for people to have gone after him for the antiwar stuff, but for his war service? Obama has been on the receiving end of a vastly increased firehose of crazy, but he has also benefited from seeing what happened to Clinton, Gore, and Kerry.

  228. 228
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Hill Dweller: you really can’t tell the story of the Clinton presidency without humming and stickiness.

  229. 229
    askew says:

    @Donut:

    If you don’t think Obama has it rough, you have your head buried in the sand. Name another president who had to produce his long form birth certificate years after he was elected president. Name another president who had Congresspeople and Supreme Court justices mock him during the SOTU. Name another president who had a Congress intentionally default on our country’s debt by refusing to raise the debt ceiling. Name another president who had 100s of filibusters on routine nominations and legislation.

    Clinton got slammed by rightwing media and the left did bitch about his decisions. But, I never saw the left media push conspiracy theories and help the rightwing smear Clinton.

  230. 230
    askew says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I think the difference is that Obama is squeaky clean. The Clilntons and the McCain camp dug for any dirt on Obama and couldn’t find any. If there was some there, it would have been found. The Clintons did get smeared, but they brought some of it on by playing fast and loose with ethics and the fact that Bill can’t keep it in his pants. He should have known after Gary Hart that Democrats can’t get away with infidelity. Kerry was unfairly smeared but the media has never been able to see reason on Vietnam. They are still pissed that the dirty hippies were right in protesting that war.

  231. 231
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @askew: Bosnia was probably the closest match. Antiwar left teaming up with obstructionist right. I don’t know if it mattered much to the way it got covered in the Times and the Post, but I have a garage full of old issues of The Nation pounding on Clinton for the aerial campaign in the former Yugoslavia. Also either Hitchens or Cockburn said that Clinton should have been impeached over the bombed pharmaceutical plant in the Sudan.

  232. 232
    Donut says:

    @askew:

    I don’t disagree with you one bit about the racism and the unmitigated bullshit Obama has had to deal with, but I’m telling you, it was the same shit for Clinton, minus the racial aspect.

    Draft-dodging, free-loving Hippie ant-war intellectual educated at Yale and in Europe and used that cover in Europe to travel to Moscow and smoke dope with Brezhnev and plot to kill Dabid Koresh and take away our guns and give our jobs to Mexicans and turn our sovereignty over to the UN and give FEMA control of the military?. That was our President in the 90s. Do you remember any of that?

  233. 233
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @askew: I think there was a typo in Donut’s comment. I think a “not” was left out.

    @askew:

    I think the difference is that Obama is squeaky clean.

    Yeah, I agree. He had to be. One, because he is black. Two, because look what the GOP did to any Democrat who committed what were formerly seen venal sins.

  234. 234
    Donut says:

    @askew:

    When did I say Obama doesn’t have it rough? Oh, that’s right, I never said that. I’ve been saying the opposite.

    Oh, and if you don’t think MSNBC’s entire line up didn’t carry water for Obama all last year, you are definitely out if your mind. So what if there is also some criticism? Why is it bad to criticize Obama sometimes, in a reasonable way?

  235. 235
    askew says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Bosnia was probably the closest match. Antiwar left teaming up with obstructionist right. I don’t know if it mattered much to the way it got covered in the Times and the Post, but I have a garage full of old issues of The Nation pounding on Clinton for the aerial campaign in the former Yugoslavia. Also either Hitchens or Cockburn said that Clinton should have been impeached over the bombed pharmaceutical plant in the Sudan.

    Maybe the difference is that I didn’t hear those views on the cable news night after night and didn’t read articles in Washington Post and NY Times with this nonsense. It seems like the always angry left was more marginalized during Clinton’s term. Clinton also got the benefit of some balance in the news. He had his share of moderate media cheerleaders to combat the rightwing noise. Today, we have angry lefties and rightwing crazies. There really isn’t anyone who stands up for the Obama administration outside of some minor blogs.

  236. 236
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    I have a garage full of old issues of The Nation pounding on Clinton for the aerial campaign in the former Yugoslavia.

    And this was when I chose not to renew my subscription to The Nation. My sub to TNR got non-renewed not too long later over different issues.

  237. 237
    Hill Dweller says:

    @Donut: I didn’t mean it was a literal joke. I meant the Republicans were a joke.

    Obama walked into a much worse situation. In fact, he walked into the biggest mess since FDR’s first term, while having to deal with an opposition party full of nihilists who were dead set against him governing. Again, they shattered filibuster records in Obama’s first two years. By any metric, Obama has had fewer nominees confirmed, while dealing with an economy on the brink of depression and two wars.

    In the last two years, it has been nothing but hostage situation after hostage situation, including an attempt to intentionally destroy the full faith and credit of the United States.

    Yes, Clinton faced similar wingnut conspiracies, and the impeachment was pathetic, but he was allowed to govern. Republicans are doing shit now that one has ever seen. Ornstein and Mann has documented this pretty well.

  238. 238
    Donut says:

    @Donut:

    Meant to say “I don’t disagree that Obama has it rough”. iPad auto correct.

    You read what you want to read, askew.

  239. 239
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Hypatia’s Momma:

    Keaton is turning 7 this year (yikes!) so we usually allow him the dignity of being called “Mr. Big,” though sometimes we slip back to calling him “Big Boy.”

    Catnip makes him paranoid, so we only give it to him once in a while. You can practically see the black helicopters circling him when he gets a really good whiff of it.

  240. 240
    askew says:

    @Donut:

    Yes, I remember it but there was balance to offset it. And unlike Obama, Clinton did bring some of the attacks on himself. He did repeatedly cheat on Hillary; he did lie about the Monica mess; he didn’t go to Vietnam. Now, that doesn’t excuse the media witchhunt about the Clintons, but some of it does lay at the feet of the Clintons. I still don’t think that compares to what Obama has had to go through with absolutely no media allies and very few allies in the party.

  241. 241
    Spaghetti Lee says:

    A lot of really leftist types didn’t like Clinton and still don’t, at least not when I talk to them. If they’re acting friendlier toward him now, well, absence makes the heart grow fonder.

    I think the real test will be if the next white Democrat elected gets treated better. Comparing anti-Clinton nuttiness to anti-Obama nuttiness has limited returns. The right was nuts in the 90’s, but it wasn’t quite as vicious, or as institutional, as it is now. Yes, the 90’s had Dan Burton and Gingrich and Dick Armey, who were and remain nuts. I don’t think it had 20-year incumbents fearful of putting a toe out of line because a psychotically devoted group of righties would primary their ass right out of office.

  242. 242
    Yutsano says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    You can practically see the black helicopters circling him when he gets a really good whiff of it.

    Are they laughing? And do they fax their credenzas?

    (That thread will never cease to be epic.)

  243. 243
    Jewish Steel says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I don’t pie either. I consider it my duty to wade through even the swampiest threads. Same with FB.

    And in the spirit of the evening, I want to let you all know that you’re worse than Stalin and Cole has finally seen you for what you are.

    Nighty Night! XOXO

    -JS

  244. 244
    Jewish Steel says:

    @Jewish Steel:

    Stalin and Cole

    Worst Norman Lear sitcom ever.

  245. 245
    askew says:

    @Donut:

    Oh, and if you don’t think MSNBC’s entire line up didn’t carry water for Obama all last year, you are definitely out if your mind. So what if there is also some criticism? Why is it bad to criticize Obama sometimes, in a reasonable way?

    You obviously missed the entire MSNBC’s week long meltdown over Obama’s debate performance. Or all of the MSNBC crowd outside of Sharpton claiming that Bill saved the DNC convention and Obama would be in seriously trouble if Bill didn’t save Obama. Obama gets some compliments on MSNBC for his speeches or for occasionally getting something “right”. But, for the most part, it has been negative stories about the GOP and stories about how Obama has failed us once again. I still remember Rachel spending months claiming that Obama was selling gays out on DADT repeal and when it finally passed, she thanked everyone else’s hard work and barely mentioned Obama.

  246. 246
    Yutsano says:

    @Jewish Steel: Well no one bats a thousand. And I see my imitation of Pol Pot has fallen upon deaf ears.

  247. 247
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Yutsano:

    As you know, I could discuss Keaton all night, given that he is Mr. Charm & Personality, but he has just informed me that it’s time for me to go to bed, and he will nag me until I close the computer and head for the bedroom.

    It starts with meowing, and then he moves on to biting my knees and ankles if I don’t obey, so I’ve really gotta go.

  248. 248
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Jewish Steel:

    worse than Stalin

    Sure, but from a left or right perspective? Are you offering a Trotskyite or McCarthyist critique? And do I want to microwave some taquitos? I am not actually hungry but they sound good to me right now.

  249. 249
    Spaghetti Lee says:

    @askew:

    I see where you’re coming from. Honestly, I do. And I agree that, objectively speaking, to be successful a president can’t be constantly under attack from the media, and that if Maddow et al want Obama to do better they could give him a boost.

    But…you know, I’m not trying to start the same old fight, really, but when certain people throw the word Obot around? Maybe they use it too much, but this is what they’re talking about, this idea that mostly uncritical loyalty and boosterism should be expected from the media. Especially when the complaint isn’t ‘he’s wrong’ or ‘he’s stupid’, but ‘he did poorly in a debate’, and even pointing that out is considered out of line. I get that you don’t really think that, and you’re more arguing from frustration, but just my two cents here.

  250. 250
    Hill Dweller says:

    My biggest problem with the first debate analysis wasn’t the Obama(mostly deserved) criticism; it was the media completely ignoring Romney’s lies. I’m not sure a presidential candidate has ever a) lied that much in a debate and b) got away with it.

  251. 251
    Elizabelle says:

    Good evening, all.

    ETA: Yeah, we got us a dysfunctional media. Even the ones Fox News considers suspect.

    Next.

  252. 252
    Steeplejack says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Just in the last few weeks the housecat has started to nag me to go to bed. She gets down from her workstation (heated throw by the computer) and meows in her really jangly voice (her only bad feature), which is usually a signal that she wants to be fed, but when I follow her she goes past the kitchen and sort of stops while pointed in the general direction of the bedroom. Like a “What is it, Lassie? Is Timmy trapped in the well?” vibe. A couple of times I have put her on the bed and indicated that she could start without me, but that doesn’t work. She wants me to go to bed.

    The damned thing is that she’s right. I should go to bed earlier. My circadian rhythms are really screwed up.

  253. 253
    gene108 says:

    @Higgs Boson’s Mate:

    You do realize that on the Right Benghazi is considered worse than Watergate?

    With Watergate no one died.

  254. 254
    askew says:

    I don’t expect uncritical loyalty from the left media, but I do expect it to be weighted in Obama’s favor. Right now MSNBC is split between negative stories about the GOP and negative stories about Obama to “hold his feet to the fire” with a positive Obama news day once in a blue moon. I don’t need MSNBC to be Fox News for the left, but I do expect to see some positive Obama news. Right now, all they are doing is depressing Democratic voters. People complain that the Obama admin can’t tell the story about their accomplishments. Who in the media will tell those stories? Not CNN or Fox. And the MSNBC anchors are too worried about their leftist cred to tell the positive Obama admin stories.

    And it wasn’t that they said he did poorly in the debate. Chris Matthews practically started sobbing after the debate. The entire panel went into full-on meltdown mode and didn’t recover for a week. Every one of their shows for that week had a story devoted to Obama’s screw-up. At that point, they are not covering the news, they are making the news.

  255. 255
    Donut says:

    @askew:

    All of that critical stuff you mentioned was also tuned out by a majority of the country. So maybe you would consider that you’re justified in being upset at the media’s hideous treatment of Obama, which I have said over and over I agree is correct, but also keep in mind with the media supposedly on his side, sometimes, Bill Clinton won two elections with only a plurality? Does that not tell us something? Barack Obama is more popular than Bill Clinton ever was. So maybe all this media bullshit you get worked up about is not as crucial as you think? I think the GOP would have done all the same shit to Hillary as president that they’ve done to Barack, it just would have had a different flavor. They have reached the tip of the nadir. The GOP has bit been able to win the presidency fair and square since Poppy Bush bear Dukakis. Of course they have tuned to legislative obstructionism. They are not doing that just because Obama is a black man. They’re doing it in part because of racism, but also because that is all they have left, as a political force. I am just saying, it’s a lot more complex than just sayin “Obama gets all this hell because he’s black.” It’s way deeper than that.

    I’m done. Lights out for me.

  256. 256
    Hill Dweller says:

    @gene108:

    You do realize that on the Right Benghazi is considered worse than Watergate?

    I love watching wingnut heads explode when they’re asked about the number of embassy attacks/deaths during Dubya’s term(s).

  257. 257

    @askew: I appreciate where you’re coming from, but I would point out a few things:

    1. It’s sweeps month, and the people who own MSNBC think it’s good for ratings for Rachel and Ed to try to get in there and bloody up Obama a bit. They’re wrong of course, as anyone who willfully employs Joe Scarborough in a job that doesn’t involve scrubbing toilets must inevitably be.

    2. Their viewers are not buying it. Ed and Rachel in particular are being pilloried in social media, and though they may not read their twitter feeds, they have employees who do. And the other night Ed’s own audience refused to validate his silly poll on OH NOE DROOOOONNNEEZZZ.

    3. What Donut said at #255.

  258. 258
    The prophet Nostradumbass says:

    @Self-Righteous Little White Guy: Rachel Maddow has said, repeatedly, that she should not be considered a supporter of any particular administration. She said it during the Bush administration, she still says it now. anyone who is surprised at her not being an OBot is, in short, silly.

  259. 259
    Uriel says:

    @Knockabout:

    God, you’re delusional.

  260. 260
    mainmati says:

    @Mnemosyne: There’s probably a Muse of Misspelling too.

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