Guns Don’t Kill People, Black People Kill People

Via Elon James:

At some point we’re just going to have to demand that these assholes appear on television in their Klan uniforms.

159 replies
  1. 1
    c u n d gulag says:

    Do they make slinky black cocktail Klan outfits?

  2. 2
    Roger Moore says:

    At some point we’re just going to have to demand that these assholes appear on television in their Klan SS uniforms.

    FTFY. F1rst G0dwin P0$t!

  3. 3
    flukebucket says:

    I am 100% for it. As long as people like Ted Nugent, Ann Coulter and John McCain are the public faces of the GOP then they will become less and less and less relevent as time passes. Only the nuttiest of the nuts pay any attention to them at all.

  4. 4

    Reposting this from downstairs

    Interesting tweet from Joe Scarborough on the gun thing from today.

    RT @joenbc House can pass comprehensive gun legislation now and have Boehner shape it, or wait two years for Speaker Pelosi to do it.

    Also Robert Gibbs was on Morning Joe this morning and he opined that POTUS was going to unleash OFA on the guns issue. He said “The NRA has a long list but OFA has a longer one” I certainly hope he is right.

  5. 5
    Ted & Hellen says:

    So…is what she said about demographics inaccurate?

  6. 6
    TooManyJens says:

    That’s Elon James White, btw.

  7. 7
    PaulW says:

    Like I said on Facebook, if you compare Green populations, our death rate is lower than Orion’s. All those green-skinned alien babes kill their mates, according to that one episode…

  8. 8
    Another Halocene Human says:

    If scary Black people are doing all the killing, why would you make it easy for them to acquire and hold onto legal and illegal weapons?

    Is that what stop&frisk is supposed to do? Doesn’t seem to be working. 99.99% of the youths have nothing on them.

    Oops, I forgot this was a diversion away from the complicity of gun manufacturers in smuggling illegal guns into the US to be sold to criminals.

  9. 9
    Comrade Jake says:

    She’s special, that Ann Coulter. I for one am shocked that despite being engaged several times, she’s never married.

  10. 10
    Another Halocene Human says:

    @PaulW: So when Christopher Pike pictured Vina as an Orion slave girl in that one episode, he was a lot kinkier David Carridine than we thought?

  11. 11
    The Other Chuck says:

    Um, remind me again what skin color is possessed by the overwhelming majority of mass shooters?

  12. 12
    Roger Moore says:

    @Another Halocene Human:

    If scary Black people are doing all the killing, why would you make it easy for them to acquire and hold onto legal and illegal weapons?

    So law abiding white people will have a bigger incentive to buy. Remember, the goal isn’t to make the country safer, it’s to sell more guns.

  13. 13
    Ted & Hellen says:

    Lesbolicious?

  14. 14
    Another Halocene Human says:

    @Comrade Jake: It’s Bill Maher. She doesn’t know how to quit him.

  15. 15
    Seanly says:

    Wow, Ted & Hellen might as well just whip out the N-word.

  16. 16
    GregB says:

    Oh that Aryann Coulter, she’s such a card!

  17. 17
    dan says:

    @Ted & Hellen: Who the f*** knows? Do you think for a second that SHE knows? She just throws this crap out and the racists Fox audience laps it up.

  18. 18
    Chris says:

    @Another Halocene Human:

    If scary Black people are doing all the killing, why would you make it easy for them to acquire and hold onto legal and illegal weapons?

    So they can wipe each other out.

  19. 19
    Chris says:

    @Seanly:

    At least it lays to rest the question of whether he’s anything other than a right-wing troll.

  20. 20
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Tom Brokaw sees no pattern of racism on Fox News, and this is all Obama’s fault for not having Rupert Murdoch over to the living quarters for milk and cookies.

  21. 21
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Seanly:

    Wow, Ted & Hellen might as well just whip out the N-word.

    How so?

    Is what the Lesbovicious one said about demographics accurate or not?

  22. 22
    Maude says:

    Seeing her, all I could think was, it was a really expensive dye job on her hair. I’m shallow.

  23. 23
    Joel says:

    @Ted & Hellen: Stop trolling. Seriously.

  24. 24
    Joel says:

    @Ted & Hellen: Stop trolling. Seriously.

  25. 25
    Joel says:

    @Ted & Hellen: Stop trolling. Seriously.

  26. 26
    scav says:

    Should we game this through a bit? if she’s advocating (and there are alternate interpretations, such as the one T&h is probably flogging) that there should be race based regulations of who can possess implements dangerous to the larger population, does that means can take away the keys to all hedge fund and banking board rooms from white guys?

    test, scusi

  27. 27
    Comrade Jake says:

    I wonder how Ms. Coulter thinks we should go about fixing our “demographic problem”. I assume it involves ovens of some sort.

  28. 28
    Calouste says:

    @Comrade Jake:

    She’s special, that Ann Coulter. I for one am shocked that despite being engaged several times, she’s never married.

    Some men are a bit slow on the uptake.

  29. 29
    Comrade Jake says:

    @Ted & Hellen:

    So…is what she said about demographics inaccurate?

    I did some research on Google, and found your answer right here.

  30. 30
    Ted & Hellen says:

    From what I can quickly gather from the googletrons, blacks are six times more likely than whites to be the victim of gun violence in the U.S., and eight times more likely than whites to be the shooter.

    What are the ramifications of this for gun control policy/laws? I guess we’ll never know at Balloon Juice, because until you can actually say things like this out loud you can’t even have the conversation.

    Most mass shooters, as in Sandy Hook, are white. That too, is a statistic. It has implications and potential meanings.

    Try not to be afraid of facts. Liberals are fact based, remember? Jesus.

  31. 31
    Mandalay says:

    I don’t know where Coulter got her numbers for her claim that “If you compare white populations, we have the same murder rate as Belgium”, but this is what I found:

    US murder rate for non-Hispanic whites = 2.7
    US murder rate for non-Hispanic blacks = 23.1
    Belgium murder rate = 1.7

    http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/previe.....4.htm#tab1

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L.....icide_rate

    So her claim would seems to be false, but she probably has a source to support it. The reliability of her source would be another matter.

  32. 32
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Comrade Jake:

    So it’s good for us all to know that you are afraid of factual information.

    Thank you for sharing that.

    Now…WHY are you afraid. Could you share that information as well?

  33. 33
    Comrade Jake says:

    Trolls gonna troll.

  34. 34
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Mandalay:

    So the bleach blonde hyena is off by one percentage point…it’s still pretty damn close, no?

  35. 35
    trollhattan says:

    @Roger Moore:
    Coulter always reads better in the original German, also, too.

    Bless her heart, she’s getting a little long in the tooth to pull off the hawt-blonde-in-the-cocktail-dress thing. Next stop: giant Nancy Reagan head atop dessicated social xray body.

  36. 36
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Comrade Jake:

    Dishonest fear-based idiot gonna dodge.

  37. 37
    Todd says:

    @dan:

    Do you think for a second that SHE knows? She just throws this crap out and the racists Fox audience laps it up.

    Like dogs to vomit…

  38. 38
    Chris says:

    @Mandalay:

    I don’t know where Coulter got her numbers for her claim that “If you compare white populations, we have the same murder rate as Belgium”

    I’m still not sure what that’s supposed to mean, that the murder rate among American white people is the same as the murder rate among Belgian white people, or Belgians in general? Not that it really matters, as you point out.

    So her claim would seems to be false, but she probably has a source to support it. The reliability of her source would be another matter.

    What’s the Belgian version of the BNP again?

  39. 39
    Comrade Jake says:

    Frum has a pretty good takedown of Coulter’s “logic” up on CNN.

  40. 40
    The prophet Nostradumbass says:

    @Chris: that would be Vlaams Belang.

  41. 41
    Ted & Hellen says:

    Here’s the deal, folks: I’m about as far left on gun control as one can get. I want European style gun laws. I want assault weapons banned. I want everything else locked up tight. I want background checks and mental health screening and waiting periods and strict licensing laws, renewable with tests annually. I want a massive gun buy-back program followed by severe penalties for those who don’t comply.

    And none of that changes the fact that blacks are hugely more likely than whites to kill and be killed by guns in this country. Of course there are many reasons for that to be so, and all of it needs to be examined and dealt with, right along with tough gun control.

    But until you can say the words out loud as they pertain to any category of gun violence statistics including that white men are the serial killers and the mass shooters, you’re just part of the problem.

    What the fuck are you afraid of?

  42. 42
    trollhattan says:

    @Chris:

    Yeah, but if you just take the Walloons, their murder rate is eleventy-billion per zillion, so there!

    Am awaiting the renewed “discussion” of Chicago murder rates the Republicans so enjoy serially rolling out.

  43. 43
    lyford says:

    Regardless of who says it, the publically available data seems to show that blacks are killed and kill with firearms at a higher rate than whites. If accurate, that’s not political. It’s data.

    The reasons, consequences, and possible solutions — those can argued to death, along with the merits of the messenger. But any rational discussion has to start with data that everyone agrees is valid.

  44. 44
    Mandalay says:

    @Chris:

    I’m still not sure what that’s supposed to mean, that the murder rate among American white people is the same as the murder rate among Belgian white people, or Belgians in general? Not that it really matters, as you point out.

    Interestingly, the only way she could be correct would be if the murder rate of white Belgians was higher than that of non-white Belgians, but I doubt if that is an argument she would want to push even if it were true.

    Just to be clear though, it is tricky to compare murder rates between countries. To draw any worthwhile conclusions you need to be comparing apples to apples with respect to sample periods, data reliabilty, trends, etc.

  45. 45
    J says:

    It would be a splendid thing, and a blow for equal rights, if she were the first Kleagle of the invisible empire, or would that be ‘Kleagle-ess’?

  46. 46
    McJulie says:

    She’s right. We DO have a demographics problem. According to the CNN article, 90 percent of all gun homicides are committed by men. So, only women can own guns. Problem solved!

  47. 47
    Cassidy says:

    @Ted & Hellen: The problem is that your jumping on an unecessary bandwagon. This is being thrown out, by a pretty consistent race-baiter, to muddy the waters of the gun control debate. So while it may be a worthwhile conversation to have, especially regarding race, poverty, etc., having it right now is taking one’s eye off the ball.

    For once, we actually agree on something, but I don’t think we should allow the propagandists to continue to put up smokescreens and that’s Coulter’s main purpose in life. YMMV, but I think we should stay focused. The reality is that AA’s die every day due to gun violence, but this country doesn’t give a shit until white people start getting offed. Secondly, these mass shootings don’t happen due to the issues of poverty and being a minority, but instead are directly related to the gun fetishism of white people, so they’re not the same issue.

  48. 48
    Comrade Jake says:

    @lyford: Suggesting that people here are ignoring the data is pretty fucking obtuse. This isn’t about the data.

    Coulter’s statement amounts to “guns aren’t the problem, black people are the problem”. You see, if we just get rid of the black people, we’ll be a peaceful nation, just like Belgium.

  49. 49
    Mandalay says:

    @GregB:

    Oh that Aryann Coulter, she’s such a card!

    Her goal in making those incendiary comments was to move the debate. Our troll swallowed the bait and begged for more.

    [ETA: Ha!…I see the previous two posts are making a similar point.]

  50. 50
    Helen Bedd says:

    Does Ann cite any numbers? [My computer doesn’t have sound]

    The latest numbers I can find for Belgium are from 2005 [before new strict gun control laws were added] and the annual rate of all gun deaths per 100,000 population is 3.0112.

    That’s much lower than recent numbers for very white states like NH [5.8], IO [6.7], VT [9.6],KS [9.7], UT [9.7] OR [10.5], MT [14.5], WV [14.7] or WY [18.8].

  51. 51
    gvg says:

    @Ted & Hellen: We’ve heard this line before and are too cynical to fall for it. At best someone says it who just wants to be rude. Usually its cover for racism. It does not lead to any enlightenment or insight. We know this because we have all heard it sooo many times before all through our lives.

    If you ACTUALLY want to cause thought, find another way to begin a conversation. It doesn’t even matter if you think you are sincere. That is just too rudely aggressive to get any good discussion going. Just drop it and think of some other way.

  52. 52
    eemom says:

    @Ted & Hellen:

    And none of that changes the fact that blacks are hugely more likely than whites to kill and be killed by guns in this country. Of course there are many reasons for that to be so, and all of it needs to be examined and dealt with, right along with tough gun control.

    However, T, as you well know, Coulter has less than zero interest in doing any of that and such was not her purpose in citing whatever numbers she used. Rather, her purpose was to advance a racist pro-gun nut agenda.

  53. 53
    Mandalay says:

    @McJulie:

    She’s right. We DO have a demographics problem. According to the CNN article, 90 percent of all gun homicides are committed by men. So, only women can own guns. Problem solved!

    You have captured the critical flaw in Coulter’s supposed argument. Instead of citing the white murder rate, she could have cited the murder rate of blacks over 65, or black people with incomes over $100,000 per year. Those rates are probably lower than the white murder rate though, so they would not serve her purpose.

  54. 54
    Chyron HR says:

    @Ted & Hellen:

    Where did you (and your new hero Ann) get the idea that anyone is proposing to only restrict white peoples’ access to guns?

  55. 55
    Anna in PDX says:

    @Ted & Hellen: We are talking about gun control, and racists like Ann Coulter are trying to make the conversation about race. Why is this a good idea? What has it got to do with gun control? Discussing demographics is getting us where in terms of gun control? Are you suggesting that we have demographic based laws about gun control? Why is “let’s talk about something else” a good thing to do and those who say “no, let’s keep focused on gun control” being cowardly?

  56. 56
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    @Comrade Jake: There are 6000 comments on that article. Luckily there are so many my browser could not load them. The article was good, though. I especially liked the part where he points out that maybe the reason blacks in Baton Rouge are carrying guns is same reason that whites say they have to carry them.

  57. 57
    Mandalay says:

    @Anna in PDX:

    We are talking about gun control, and racists like Ann Coulter are trying to make the conversation about race.

    This, a gazillion times over.

  58. 58
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    @Ted & Hellen: Read the Frum article that Comrade Jake links to.

  59. 59
    dan says:

    She’s not making a statement about statistics, and if you argue about that you’re chasing the wrong rabbit. That is like looking at the paragraph below and focusing on the phrase “numbers show.”

    She’s saying that there shouldn’t be any increase in gun control because numbers show that it is mostly blacks that are being killed. So leave white people’s guns alone. Cause we’re the good ones. If blacks are being killed, that is not a problem we need to fix.

  60. 60
    The prophet Nostradumbass says:

    @Anna in PDX:

    We are talking about gun control, and racists like Ann Coulter are trying to make the conversation about race

    and the twit is trying to make the conversation about himself.

  61. 61
    John (not McCain) says:

    @Comrade Jake: She’s never married because her fiances all discovered she’s like Barbie “down there”.

  62. 62
    Gotta Ask Why says:

    @Ted & Helen:

    The only reason why raced based statistics are of any relevance is because our love for all things “American Dream” requires that we ignore the study of homicide rates by income level and level of income inequality. Luckily in The Socialist Republic of Canada they try such things. Here are a portion the concluding remarks:

    “The results of these analyses support the proposition that the degree to which resources are unequally distributed is a stronger determinant of levels of
    lethal violence in modern nation states than is the average level of material welfare.”

    Please read for yourself. From:
    http://psych.mcmaster.ca/dalywilson/iiahr2001.pdf

  63. 63

    @Joel Says:
    @Ted & Hellen: Stop trolling. Seriously.

    @Joel Says:
    @Ted & Hellen: Stop trolling. Seriously.

    @Joel Says:
    @Ted & Hellen: Stop trolling. Seriously.

    Best FYWP ever

  64. 64
    kc says:

    Actually, Coulter’s head already looks kinda like a pointy white hood . . .

  65. 65

    My juicing experience is vastly improved with using Cleek’s pie filter on kitchen implement. Unsolicited BJ PSA. http://ok-cleek.com/blogs/2149.....mvoweller/

  66. 66
    Sir Nose'D says:

    @Ted & Hellen:

    What the fuck are you afraid of?

    I am afraid that the focus on race frames the issue without any constructive social purpose.

    Why not look at gun violence among people who live below versus above the poverty line? Why not look at perpetrators versus victims of violence based on gender? The google will tell you there are some interesting trends there as well.

    There is a social purpose served by Ms. Coulter’s statistics, for a particular audience. And perhaps it is “just my opinion” that such a social purpose is not what you might call constructive.

  67. 67
    scav says:

    Maybe if we could reassure the ultra leftist, self-declared professed BFF of “John”, destoyer of NASA that Coulter might just possibly assert that it’s Wedneday on the appropriate day of the week she’ld shut up? (not a chance, a rhetorical flourish too far). The Wednesday comment of Coulter has about as much relevence to the issue as the price of life in Belgium.

  68. 68
  69. 69
    weaselone says:

    @Ted & Hellen:

    No. It is not pretty close. The numbers provided were rates. The 2.7 murder rate for whites in the US is ~59% higher higher than the murder rate in Belgium.

  70. 70
    Elizabelle says:

    @McJulie:

    HIlarious.

    Some sociologist wrote a book a few years ago, Men are not Cost Effective.

  71. 71
    dan says:

    She’s not making a statistical point. She’s not making a statistical point. She’s not making a statistical point. She’s not making a statistical point. She’s not making a statistical point. She’s not making a statistical point. She’s not making a statistical point. She’s not making a statistical point.

    She is saying that we don’t need gun control because white people are not being killed by guns in any statistically relevant numbers. Only blacks are. So … no big deal!

  72. 72
    El Caganer says:

    Ann Coulter? She’s still alive? Shut my mouth – learn something new every day.

  73. 73
    El Caganer says:

    Ann Coulter? She’s still alive? Shut my mouth – learn something new every day.

  74. 74
    LAC says:

    @Ted & Hellen: Hey, TedfistsHelen, please go away. There has a to be some carny job somewhere that your skill level matches.

  75. 75
    Betty Cracker says:

    @dan: Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner.

  76. 76
    One And Done says:

    For all the talk from spatula that he’s trying to push the conversation to the left, can anyone remember him taking an actual left position?

    The only goal I can see from this guy is to take the most douchebaggious position and then tripling down on it. I would love to be wrong, and I don’t read every thread here but it would greatly decrease my suspicion that he’s more interested in ratfuckery if someone could point to one issue where he’s liberal.

  77. 77
    maya says:

    Did Annie get her gun?

  78. 78
    lyford says:

    You can correlate gun violence with all sorts of things: gender, race, economic status, population density, drug use, gun laws, etc. That’s all useful data if you’re thinking like an epidemiologist, and it all should be part of the discussion.

    Tighter gun laws are not the reason that Vermont is safer than Illinois. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.....s_by_state

  79. 79
    Patricia Kayden says:

    Let’s just say that Ms. Coulter is right. So what? Okay, Black people kill Black people at higher rates than White people kill White people in the United States.

    How would that impact the need for sensible gun control? Especially in light of the fact that we’ve had several mass shootings where White men were the perpetrators.

    I’m hoping that sensible Americans do whatever they can (including calling their Congress Reps) to support President Obama’s gun control initiatives. Ms. Coulter is nothing to me. She can kiss my Black hindquarters.

  80. 80
    Seanly says:

    @Ted & Hellen:

    One issue is that the federal, state & local governments are not allowed to have one set of laws for one group & another for a different group. Plus I’m not seeing what race has to do with any of the items Obama requested today. Coulter was hinting at some sort of supremicist-type solution like deporting all undesirables as decided by her.

    And as was pointed out, most of the mass shooters in the USA have been white.

  81. 81
    Tone in DC says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    I like it.

  82. 82
    Forum Transmitted Disease says:

    Racist and a pedophile. Well, our John Cole-sanctioned Timmy troll of many names is just full of surprises.

  83. 83
    JosieJ says:

    @Ted & Hellen:

    And none of that changes the fact that blacks are hugely more likely than whites to kill and be killed by guns in this country. Of course there are many reasons for that to be so, and all of it needs to be examined and dealt with, right along with tough gun control.

    But that’s not what she was saying. She was saying, basically, that it’s just black people killing black people, so obviously we don’t need gun control. (Unless her aim was the far more odious “get rid of the blacks and we won’t have a problem.”) She wasn’t advocating for any such debate, examination or discussion. If she’d said that gun control might help bring down the gun-death rates due to black-on-black gun violence–something, by the way, that black activists have been saying for years–she might have actually connected with something constructive.

    But this is Ann Coulter we’re talking about: she’d never miss a chance to obfuscate the debate in the most offensive manner possible.

  84. 84
    TG Chicago says:

    @McJulie: Excellent point! Somehow I don’t see the NRA wackos embracing that logic, even if the numbers are far more convincing.

  85. 85
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @gvg:

    We’ve heard this line before and are too cynical to fall for it. At best someone says it who just wants to be rude. Usually its cover for racism. It does not lead to any enlightenment or insight. We know this because we have all heard it sooo many times before all through our lives.
    If you ACTUALLY want to cause thought, find another way to begin a conversation. It doesn’t even matter if you think you are sincere. That is just too rudely aggressive to get any good discussion going. Just drop it and think of some other way

    Well, OK, you’re an idiot.

    Although I had not heard your rationalization before, which is interesting: FACTS ARE RUDE.

  86. 86
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @eemom:

    Could you point to where I deny or refute Coulter’s bias?

    For god’s sake, I called her “Lesbovicious.” That’s not enough?

    She probably would agree that the sky is blue on a cloudless day. I’m not going to deny the truth of that either.

  87. 87
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @McJulie:

    She’s right. We DO have a demographics problem. According to the CNN article, 90 percent of all gun homicides are committed by men. So, only women can own guns. Problem solved!

    I could not agree more.

    I say that as a Penis-American.

  88. 88
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Chyron HR:

    Where did you (and your new hero Ann) get the idea that anyone is proposing to only restrict white peoples’ access to guns?

    Piss off, dipshit.

  89. 89
    Mandalay says:

    @Forum Transmitted Disease:

    I enjoy almost all of your posts, but IMHO you are saying more about yourself than the troll by playing at being Simon Wiesenthal.

    Just my 2 cents.

  90. 90
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Anna in PDX:

    We are talking about gun control, and racists like Ann Coulter are trying to make the conversation about race. Why is this a good idea? What has it got to do with gun control? Discussing demographics is getting us where in terms of gun control? Are you suggesting that we have demographic based laws about gun control? Why is “let’s talk about something else” a good thing to do and those who say “no, let’s keep focused on gun control” being cowardly?

    Anna, calm yourself. She said one thing that is largely true. We gain nothing by pretending otherwise. I say acknowledge the truth of things that are true, and then go on to clarify the rest of the argument.

    I think it matters to AA’s a great deal that their children are dying of gun violence at such a catastrophic pace. I think tight gun laws will help prevent those deaths too.

    I’m not afraid of a debate on those terms. Why are you?

    SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP is a right wing argument. Fuck that.

  91. 91
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @dan:

    She’s saying that there shouldn’t be any increase in gun control because numbers show that it is mostly blacks that are being killed. So leave white people’s guns alone. Cause we’re the good ones. If blacks are being killed, that is not a problem we need to fix.

    So then THAT’S one of the many subsequent arguments I would take up with the Bleached Broomstick.

    Seem to me DATA is one thing. INTERPRETATION of data is another, and that’s where the argument begins and where liberals easily win.

    I hear Cole and others on this thread saying “DON’T SAY TRUE THINGS DON’T SAY TRUE THINGS.” Which implies you think the truth weakens your argument.

    I disagree.

  92. 92
    Raven says:

    @maya: No but she got her Guns and Gardens in the mail just now!

  93. 93
    Original Lee says:

    @Comrade Jake: The funny part (in a not very funny way) is that Belgium has a population of African immigrants that is not insignificant.

  94. 94
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Sir Nose’D:

    Why not look at gun violence among people who live below versus above the poverty line? Why not look at perpetrators versus victims of violence based on gender? The google will tell you there are some interesting trends there as well.

    I agree we SHOULD look at all those perspectives. I’m all for it! And race too! It’s all facts! Facts are good!

    Please quote where I said the ONLY thing we should consider is whatever Man Coulter says.

    Wow…she has you guys thoroughly trained to freak out at her command.

  95. 95
    xian says:

    amateur troll piggybacks off teevee troll. film at 11.

  96. 96
    nellcote says:

    AP: “Former Democratic presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich has signed on as a regular contributor to Fox News Channel.”

  97. 97
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @dan:

    She is saying that we don’t need gun control because white people are not being killed by guns in any statistically relevant numbers. Only blacks are. So … no big deal!

    She has you just where she wants you. You are behaving in a reactionary manner, which makes you her plaything.

  98. 98
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Okay, Black people kill Black people at higher rates than White people kill White people in the United States.
    How would that impact the need for sensible gun control? Especially in light of the fact that we’ve had several mass shootings where White men were the perpetrators.

    Excellent. That’s pretty much the next question I would ask the freak if I were sitting across from her while she munches her oats.

  99. 99
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Seanly:

    One issue is that the federal, state & local governments are not allowed to have one set of laws for one group & another for a different group.

    Did someone propose that?

    I certainly did not. Nor I believe it to be something that should be considered.

  100. 100
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Forum Transmitted Disease:

    So you got nothing on the Coulter thing, eh?

  101. 101
    Raven says:

    Folks, I’m as guilty as anyone else on this but we need to stop talking to this person. He or she is obviously totally unhinged and wants nothing but to carry on this shit day-in-and-day-out.

  102. 102
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Original Lee:

    The funny part (in a not very funny way) is that Belgium has a population of African immigrants that is not insignificant.

    Which would be an awesome point to make in refuting her implications.

  103. 103
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Raven:

    lol

  104. 104
    PeakVT says:

    @El Caganer: Well, she’s ambulatory, at least. I doubt anyone so heartless is actually alive.

  105. 105
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Raven:

    Says the dry drunk alleged vet who lives in a fox hole in his head.

  106. 106
    Comrade Jake says:

    @Ted & Hellen:

    “I hear Cole and others on this thread saying “DON’T SAY TRUE THINGS DON’T SAY TRUE THINGS.”

    How you possibly extracted this from Cole’s post or the subsequent comments is beyond me. You’re either an unskilled troll or a class-one idiot.

  107. 107
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Comrade Jake:

    Man Coulter said a fact that was true, in the clip provided.

    BJ lost its collective shit.

    Not because what she said wasn’t true…because it IS true.

    But because she SAID something that was true…and this is not allowed…or something.

    Also because apparently she has Agnew Republicans trained to freak out at her slightest command, which then lends her additional wing nut cred, which helps sell her books and on and on.

  108. 108
    Comrade Jake says:

    @Raven: Agreed. I’m done.

  109. 109

    Guns don’t kill threads. Right wingers pretending to drone on about firebagger purity do.

  110. 110
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @ranchandsyrup:

    Poor baby.

    Poor dead little thread.

  111. 111
    trollhattan says:

    @ranchandsyrup:
    OCD can/will tend to do that.

  112. 112
    TerryC says:

    @c u n d gulag: ”
    Do they make slinky black cocktail Klan outfits?”

    Yes. Tou’ve no doubt seen Ann Coulter in one?

  113. 113
    TerryC says:

    @c u n d gulag: ”
    Do they make slinky black cocktail Klan outfits?”

    Yes. You’ve no doubt seen Ann Coulter in one?

  114. 114
    Original Lee says:

    Ms. Coulter just demonstrated, once again, that she only uses The Google for the most superficial possible figleaf to support (in the loosest possible interpretation of the term) the red herring points she is handsomely paid to spout.

    Approximately 1.2 million inhabitants of Belgium are from Algeria and D.R. Congo, according to Wikipedia. A simple back-of-the-envelope calculation puts this, percentagewise, as approximately 9%, which shows she doesn’t do arithmetic, either.

    Additionally, crime statistics for Belgium show something different than I think she was trying to say, which of course is why she doesn’t probe too deeply.

  115. 115

    @trollhattan: Heh. Not all OCD people are gaping assholes. Le implement is (or I presume it still is because all I see is pie).

  116. 116
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @ranchandsyrup:

    Heh. Not all OCD people are gaping assholes. Le implement is (or I presume it still is because all I see is pie).

    So you say.

    And yet even with your delicate eyes shielded from all that is evil in the world, here you still are. Transfixed. Commenting. Engaged. Interesting.

  117. 117
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    John needs to put up a thread solely for Special Timmeh to shit all over in so he can smear the walls with his ‘artistic’ finger painting. Maybe Special Timmeh can frame it and sell it to John to hang on his wall! This thread is nothing but Timmeh baiting his hooks with his special sauce and reeling the suckers in, one after the other. Just like every other thread that Timmeh comes to shit in.

    What a fucking waste.

  118. 118
    Brachiator says:

    @Ted & Hellen:

    Here’s the deal, Teddie,

    Belgium is also home to the most crazed pedophiles:

    Mr. De Baets was in charge of interrogating the X-witnesses after they volunteered to give information. The most controversial of them was a young woman originally known only as X1, but whose real name, it emerged, was Regina Louf.
    __
    Amid silence and tears during the course of several all-night interrogations, she poured out a terrifying tale of having been sold into prostitution by her grandmother and later introduced into a circle of orgies at which, she said, she had seen young children tortured and murdered.
    __
    The other X-witnesses, one of whom worked for the police, told similar stories of childhood abuse, and described hunts at which children were chased through woods with Dobermans.

    The demographics suggest that white Belgians are decidedly and sadistically perverse, and probably should all be put into camps.

    Ann Coulter’s kind of people.

  119. 119
    dan says:

    @Ted & Hellen: I’m not interpreting her data, I am interpreting what she is saying.

  120. 120
    dan says:

    @Ted & Hellen: I know how to argue with assholes, I just don’t enjoy it. You are changing the subject to distract from the point.

    She is saying that we don’t need gun control because white people are not being killed by guns in any statistically relevant numbers. Only blacks are. So … no big deal!

    Is there any other possible reason that she would cite that data (correct or not)? What point do you think she is trying to make?

  121. 121
    Ruckus says:

    @Patricia Kayden:
    I wouldn’t let her do that. And by the way she is like barbie, no human intelligence in that plastic little head.

  122. 122
    Ruckus says:

    @Raven:
    This.
    Pie this idiot and move on.
    Please…

  123. 123
    Soonergrunt says:

    @One And Done:

    For all the talk from spatula that he’s trying to push the conversation to the left, can anyone remember him taking an actual left position?
    The only goal I can see from this guy is to take the most douchebaggious position and then tripling down on it. I would love to be wrong, and I don’t read every thread here but it would greatly decrease my suspicion that he’s more interested in ratfuckery if someone could point to one issue where he’s liberal.

    No, I’d say that you’ve got his number. That’s our Timmy to a ‘t’.

  124. 124
    Machine-Gun Preacher (formerly Ben Franklin) says:

    This must be the pulling the wings off flies thread….

  125. 125
    Splitting Image says:

    @c u n d gulag:

    Do they make slinky black cocktail Klan outfits?

    I’d rather the Klan stayed away from slinky black outfits. I have a couple of friends who wear the niqab. They have enough problems with someone like Coulter wearing a similar outfit.

  126. 126
    Julia Grey says:

    From what I can quickly gather from the googletrons, blacks are six times more likely than whites to be the victim of gun violence in the U.S., and eight times more likely than whites to be the shooter.

    What are the ramifications of this for gun control policy/laws?

    That’s a damn good question.

    Since you think this is such an important piece of data to consider in terms of gun control policy, let me ask you what YOU think the implications/ramifications of this oh-so-important data point are.

    Are you suggesting, for example, that our new gun policy should somehow take a gun purchaser’s race into account? That, perhaps, black people’s access to guns should be limited by law? How would that work, exactly?

    If you do not believe that a person’s race should constitute any kind of limitation/consideration in terms of gun control laws, THEN WHY THE HELL DO YOU CONSIDER COULTER’S “DATA” SO DAMN IMPORTANT to “consider” right now, in the very midst of the debate over gun control laws?

    (This reminds me of the conversations people had over The Bell Curve. Even IF you conceded that the premise was correct/proved (black people as a population tend naturally and ineluctably to be less intelligent than white people as a population) — which is NOT true, of course — what good would that “knowledge” do you in terms of making public policy? The Law cannot treat individuals differently from other individuals on the basis of statistical group characteristics. Because even TBC itself conceded that its groups both had “bell curves” of their own with considerable overlap; individual blacks could easily be smarter than individual whites, etc.

    In other words, if you can’t actually use a certain piece of data in your policy prescriptions, it’s useless to “discuss” it.)

  127. 127
    DougW says:

    9th circle of hell for you Coulter… Hope you’re ready for it. I hope you have protection, because your message and intended targets could create a danger to you or your family. We wouldn’t want that, a dead Coulter isn’t nearly so wonderful as a live Coulter spitting out vitriol that continues to cause Republicans to reclassify as Democrats and Independents just to get away from the crazy that is YOU!

    I actually hope that you continue hale and whole and enjoy a long (and fruitless) career. You have one up on Ms. Bachmann, as she has ladybird Bachmann, who can’t possibly be less important to either Ms. Bachmann or her mini-Rasputin confidant…

    In the meantime, happy new year to you. It would be really nice for all of us if you dropped the schtick, and just got out there doing the peoples business.

    Happy New Year, and please cover you ass and go middle of the road… You’re Michelle Bachmann and you can get away with it with the leadership.

    G’Night!

  128. 128
    anthrosciguy says:

    It’s enough to make you think Aldo Raines had the right idea.

  129. 129
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Odie Hugh Manatee:

    What a fucking waste.

    Indeed.

    Indeed you are.

  130. 130
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Julia Grey:

    OMG.

    Complete idiocy.

    She said a thing. The thing was true. That’s it. That’s my point.

    The fact that you can’t admit that without going off into all kinds of weeds in all kinds of directions is just amazing.

    If you bothered to read the thread, you’ll see that I pointed out several rejoinders that could immediately be used to counter as soon as she was finished saying the thing that she said.

    The thing that was true.

    This the Kool Kid Clique on this blog keeps getting stupider and stupider. No wonder Cole hardly takes part in comments anymore.

  131. 131
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Ruckus:

    Please, yes, for the love of god, will all you stupid, fearful Pie Persons please pie me already?

  132. 132
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @One And Done:

    Hey stupid: Is this liberal enough for you?

    41Ted & Hellen Says:

    Here’s the deal, folks: I’m about as far left on gun control as one can get. I want European style gun laws. I want assault weapons banned. I want everything else locked up tight. I want background checks and mental health screening and waiting periods and strict licensing laws, renewable with tests annually. I want a massive gun buy-back program followed by severe penalties for those who don’t comply.

  133. 133
    lyford says:

    @Julia Grey: Two groups have vastly different outcomes related to the use of a device. We are considering how best to regulate those devices. Knowing why the outcomes are different would help us make logical choices about which regulations would be most effective.

    Do the differences relate to ease/method of acquisition? Specific devices used? Demographics of users? Method of use? If one really wanted to understand the problem, those would be valid questions.

  134. 134
    Kropadope says:

    @Julia Grey:

    Perhaps this data could be used, but not in a way that promotes racial stigmatization. If our efforts to curb gun violence included anti-poverty measures and efforts to improve the culture in violent urban neighborhoods, that would be a wonderful thing. I couldn’t find a link, but I have heard of excellent results from a new program where they’re turning empty lots, which attract a lot of crime, into gardens and playgrounds. These measures have been effective in deterring criminals, largely by raising neighborhood pride and giving people something they want to protect.

  135. 135
    Visceral says:

    @flukebucket:

    As long as people like Ted Nugent, Ann Coulter and John McCain are the public faces of the GOP then they will become less and less and less relevent as time passes. Only the nuttiest of the nuts pay any attention to them at all.

    Or they just end up mainstreaming those beliefs. If the only public figures identifying as conservatives are violent nutcases, then it stops being violent nutcasery and becomes ordinary conservatism.

  136. 136
    Julia Grey says:

    She said a thing. The thing was true. That’s it. That’s my point.

    For some values of “true,” yes. There was valid discussion in this very thread about HOW “true” it was. But never mind. That’s not really the argument you and I are pursuing.

    Because I am one of this blog’s “stupider and stupider” “Kool Kids,” I must continue this rhetorical thrill ride and contend that in the particular post that I was addressing — the one that I took care to quote directly in my earlier “idiocy” — the idea that Coulter’s statement was true was NOT, in fact, the entirety of your point.

    In that post you reinforced the “truth” of Coulter’s claim with statistics you gleaned from the “googletrons,” and THEN you immediately asked

    What are the ramifications of this for gun control policy/laws?

    And immediately following that you said

    I guess we’ll never know at Balloon Juice, because until you can actually say things like this out loud you can’t even have the conversation.

    You weren’t just making the point that Coulter was saying something true. You were also trying to say that that “truth” might have some relevance for gun control policy/laws, and that a “conversation” about the ramifications would need to acknowledge the “truth” of Coulter’s claim.

    So. Your point was 1) she said something true and 2) it needed to be considered in the law/policy debate.

    Therefore I asked you to explain in what way, exactly, it had any relevance at all.

    The answer is, as I illustrated in my supposedly idiotic post: whether it is “true” or not, Coulter’s little factoid is TOTALLY IRRELEVANT to gun law “conversations,” at Balloon Juice or anywhere else, since — as you yourself acknowledge — any race-based law or policy taking her “true statement” into account would not be constitutional…or moral.

    So tell me again, why is it so necessary for Balloon Juicers to acknowledge her (possibly un)”true” statement as true? It’s certainly not, as you implied earlier, because acknowledging its truth is necessary for an honest discussion of gun policy.

    Come on, man, you can tell us. What’s your REAL need, Speed?

  137. 137
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Original Lee: Wonder why Coulter picked Belgium. Aren’t there more racially pure, i.e., White countries in Europe that would be more appropriate for her purposes? As you have pointed out, there is a significant percentage of non-White people living in Belgium.

  138. 138
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Brachiator: Well think of what Belgians did in the Congo. Not surprised at all.

  139. 139
    Kropadope says:

    @Julia Grey:

    I, for one, favor not being afraid to have a discussion because it has uncomfortable sociological or political ramifications.

  140. 140
    Kropadope says:

    @Julia Grey:

    I also found what I think is a constructive way this data can be incorporated into policy, see 134. Ann Coulter’s little factoid isn’t irrelevent to the conversation. It was framed in a racist and demeaning way, however it points to a truth, less about race than poverty induced crime.

  141. 141
    Ted & Hellen says:

    Hey Julia, if you seriously think any policy that would take into account race based differences in gun violence would automatically be unconstitutional, you are dumber than I thought.

    But you are obviously NOT dumb, so another possibility is that you are willfully stupid and tribally based in your thinking.

    Man Coulter said a true thing you don’t like to hear because it makes you uncomfortable. I get that. What she said remains true. And that truth can even be used in ways that would benefit the AA community, which is hardly the direction Man was headed, but so what? Who cares how SHE would use the information? What matters is how liberal and progressive policy/lawmaking would take it into account.

    Would laws which include gun violence and education programs targeted at the AA community automatically be unconstitutional? Why and how so?

  142. 142
    Julia Grey says:

    Perhaps this data could be used, but not in a way that promotes racial stigmatization.

    This data is RACE-based, not ECONOMICALLY-based. The variable being discussed is race (an inborn characteristic which cannot be changed) and not socioeconomic CLASS (which can be changed by policy and crosses all color lines). Therefore it can only be used to stigmatize people based on race.

    If you wanted to make the point that the economically disadvantaged in this country are the greatest source of gun violence, and then have a policy conversation based on THAT (true) fact, everyone would see the relevance of that statement to the debate, and all of your uplifting suggestions might be useful adjuncts to direct gun-related law.

  143. 143
    LanceThruster says:

    It occurred to me that those same people who consider the 2nd Amendment inviolate would be throwing the 1st Amendment under the bus if a Mooslim had committed the Newtown murders. As it is, the Focus on the family people are blaming Lanza’s actions on his Satanism. On a side note, Bill Donohue of the Catholic League was saying that dead UK pedophile Jimmy Saville’s child raping orgies were also a product of Satanic rituals.

    Time to ban all superstition and mythology?

  144. 144
    Kropadope says:

    @Julia Grey:

    So, Ann Coulter’s data simultaneously pointed out two unfortunate facts, that too much of American’s black population lives in poverty and poverty generates crime. Frankly, that’s rather cumbersome. It’s like a “Happy Holidays” for the rest of the calendar year, shorthand.

  145. 145
    Kropadope says:

    Oh, my mistake, it’s lazy racism. Fortunately for the BJ community, many of us can see the forest around this really ugly tree Ann Coulter and you are so fascinated by.

  146. 146
    Julia Grey says:

    You really don’t need to keep insulting me to signal your contempt. If you were better at rhetoric, you’d realize that a continual need to tell the audience how dumb you think the other guy is only makes you look weak. Try to take it as given that the people reading this know that you think I’m a moron and just go on from there.

    It’s the old, Show, Don’t Tell thing. Try to cleverly demonstrate that I’m an ass. That works much, much better than just pointing and screaming, “She’s an ass!”

    Another hint: picking up liberals’ lamest insults, like “Man Coulter” — for PITY’S sake — doesn’t make you seem more authentic, it just makes you look like you’re trying too hard.

    Now, on with the show…

    Would laws which include gun violence and education programs targeted at the AA community automatically be unconstitutional? Why and how so?

    You mean a law which essentially states outright in relation to specific programs or initiatives, “only AAs need apply”? You don’t see any constitutional questions being raised about that?

    Wouldn’t there need to be some kind of stated justification in the law itself for such restrictions? You know, in the preambles or whatever: “Whereas the black population is more likely to be involved in gun violence…” No. A justification based on Coulter’s race-based “fact” would probably need to be skipped in order to pass constitutional muster.

    BUT, if the programs you’re thinking of are not targeted specifically at the black community, but only at the lower socioeconomic community, they will be unquestionably constitutional. Why not do it that way, and leave racial words out of it entirely? Then white teenagers in Appalachia or Chinese gang members in West Coast slums could get the same kind of special gun violence education!

  147. 147
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Julia Grey:

    Hi Doug.

    Like your acolytes on here, you CANNOT argue a topic without putting words in my mouth, can you.

    It’s hilarious that you think you’re an expert rhetorician now too. ahahahaha

    Back out of the weeds and to the point that I originally made: What Mann Coulter (I like calling her that, fuck you very much)said about black gun violence in the U.S. is mostly very true. That was my point. And I’m right. The rest is all of you shrieking RACCCCCCCCCCCCCISSSSS as per usual.

    Idiot.

    BTW, are you also Ulee and Gex?

  148. 148
    Ted & Hellen says:

    Doug: Now that we’ve again established that Man Coulter’s statement is true, why don’t you take it from there and email all your wisdom to HER?

    In a way, you are making my point for me. She said a thing that is true. And you have now expounded on that point and taken it in a whole other direction from where she was likely headed…which is good. So I’m not seeing the problem between you, me, and Julia at this point.

  149. 149
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    @Ted & Hellen:

    You fucked up the thread pretty good for what exactly? To get a consensus that Ann Coulter’s racism is well-founded? Whatever larger point you want to pretend you.were making, it’s pretty clear you just wanted to say mean things under the auspices of “hard truth”

    The Balloon Juice threads are as unreadable as ever, a real tragedy since they used to be the place to be on the intertrons. And your ceaseless campaign as the outrage troll makes me long for the halcyon days of unfettered Obottery.

    I’ve seen enough to know it does no good to tell you to shut the fuck up or otherwise try to get you to censor yourself so I don’t have to, but I will take the time to remind you that discretion is the better part of valor. There may be a small chance that in one of your valorous jihads against whatever the hell you think you are battling that you will connect the dots.

  150. 150
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Ted & Hellen: Why would there be gun violence programs targeting the Black community? All Blacks are not impacted/involved in gun violence.

    Now you’re trying to make it seem as if every Black American is somehow implicated in the violence which plagues some portions of the inner cities.

    Believe it or not, White Americans could do with some gun violence programs also given the number of y’all who engage in egregious acts of gun violence — mass shootings as an example.

    Yes, if any politician tried to target the Black community for any gun violence programs as if only Black people have gun violence issues, this would be unconstitutional.

    White Americans could also use some gun violence programs to deal with your issues of shooting up people in malls, schools and workplaces.

  151. 151
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    Hey Fuckhead:

    I used to think you were one of the intelligent ones.

    Sorry.

    Fuck yourself.

    The poor, unreadable, desperately dead thread is dead.

    You people are freaks.

  152. 152
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Quit wasting your time responding to things I never wrote, you turd.

  153. 153
    brantl says:

    God, what a douche; and not just Ted & Helen, Coultergeist, too.

  154. 154
    brantl says:

    @Ted & Hellen: Hey, turdface, why don’t you work on the economic side of this, before you set it off as she’s racially correct. Maybe this mostly happens to poor people (as I fully suspect, as gun violence is much more prevalent in the downtrodden, especially when someone is grinding the boots n their necks)? What, too lazy to think of that? I thought so.

  155. 155
    brantl says:

    @Ted & Hellen: Blacks are probably at least that much more likely to be among the extremely poor, too, douchebag.

  156. 156
    brantl says:

    @Ted & Hellen: Blacks are probably at least that much more likely to be among the extremely poor, too, douchebag.

  157. 157
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @brantl:

    Hey, turdface, why don’t you work on the economic side of this, before you set it off as she’s racially correct. Maybe this mostly happens to poor people (as I fully suspect, as gun violence is much more prevalent in the downtrodden, especially when someone is grinding the boots n their necks)? What, too lazy to think of that? I thought so.

    Well, you stupid dumbfuck, to even get to that part of the equation you have to start by admitting the truth of the statistics with which you’re dealing, now don’t you?. Or are you too retarded to realize that?

  158. 158
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @brantl:

    Blacks are probably at least that much more likely to be among the extremely poor, too, douchebag.

    Gee, do you really think so, genius fuck?

    That would be one of the points I’d get to immediately after agreeing with Man Coulter (I just used that name to make myself appear to be more authentically progressive. In reality I am a paid right wing troll.) that the statistics she spewed are roughly accurate.

    But since the statistics she spewed ARE roughly accurate I would demonstrate my lack of fear of dealing with reality by admitting that to be the case, you pustulant, oozing taint zit.

  159. 159
    Justin says:

    I know here in Michigan that it’s blacks who are doing a majority of the killings.

    I was looking at the Michigan State Police statistics. They show the statistics of each individual city in Michigan. The majority of homicides in Michigan happen in Flint and Detroit which are both black.

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