Open Thread: NeoFeudalists, Meet the Company Town

Hey, remember the proposed walled Citadel and its Best H.O.A. Ever? It’s an even bigger grift than it looked at first notice (surprise!). Commentor Trollhattan links to an update from the Seattle Times:

The group has purchased 20 acres atop a mountain in the county and hopes to break ground shortly after summer 2013, the website said. More than 200 families already have applied to join the Citadel, according to its website.

The project would be a “martial endeavor designed to protect residents in times of peril” and “built as a fortified bastion of liberty,” the website says…

At least one core member lives near Coeur d’Alene, the group said. “It is our hope that the residents of Benewah County will quickly learn that our intent is to be an asset to their lives, not an intrusion,” the website said. But the project could move to Montana, Wyoming or a different Idaho county, it said.

At the center of the development is a firearms-manufacturing company, III Arms, that would employ residents and raise money to help fund the Citadel. The company was incorporated in Idaho in August, its headquarters listed in Gaithersburg, Md., a suburb of Washington, D.C.

Foxconn must be sooo jealous. Sure, they have a captive workforce living in company dormitories bound by company rules, but I don’t think they’ve been able to demand their serfs buy Apple products as a condition of employment.

One or two square miles of the Citadel would be protected by walls and towers, the website said, adding that the community “intends to become a premiere tourist destination for Americans from sea to sea and border-to-border.”…

The application, with a $208 fee, asks if the person plans to raise livestock, farm or start a business at the Citadel. Residents also can choose to live inside or outside the community’s walls….

My emphases. You can join the Society for Creative Anachronism for only $45 — maximum family fee $75 — you won’t have to move to Idaho to participate, and you get to design your own coat of arms. On the other hand, SCAdians don’t encourage gunplay, at least with live rounds, which I guess is key to some peoples’ enjoyment.

***********
Outside the Barony of Ye Gonne (Pratchett joke), what’s on the agenda tonight?

183 replies
  1. 1
    Rosie Outlook says:

    I’d pay good money to watch SWPLs lay siege to that tower.

  2. 2
    Linda Featheringill says:

    And people are supposed to pay good money to be allowed to live in that isolated, walled off feudal society? Are people really that stupid?

  3. 3
    Irving says:

    We do, however, encourage playing with swords, bows, and axes. And you have to do something at least slightly spiffy for a baron or knight or whatnot to earn an “official” coat of arms. FWIW.

  4. 4
    SatanicPanic says:

    I smell a drone strike

  5. 5
    BGinCHI says:

    In no decent novel would people retreat to a Citadel with walls and weapons before the zombies/vampires/Russians/Red Chinese/aliens (space, Mexican) actually showed up to destroy their society.

    It’s like they aren’t even aware they live in a culture.

  6. 6
    Rosie Outlook says:

    Also too, if you join the SCA, you immediately become nobility. (I’ve been to a couple of their functions and everyone is Lord This and Lady That. No one ever plays a serf or even a religious.)

  7. 7
    efgoldman says:

    Irony is dead.
    Parody is dead and cremated.
    Sarcasm is waiting for its oxygen to get cut off, then it will be eviscerated, quartered, burned, and the ashes scattered over a New Jersey landfill.
    Kee-reist!

  8. 8
    Yutsano says:

    @Linda Featheringill: I personally can’t wait for the first civil dispute to break out. They might just end up resolving themselves while the survivors get absorbed back into the main population.

    Is now a good time to tell them Idaho has an income tax?

  9. 9
    efgoldman says:

    @Linda Featheringill:

    Are people really that stupid?

    Hey, I know you’ve been hanging around here long enough to know that the question answers itself.

  10. 10
    BGinCHI says:

    @Yutsano: Who do you think has the liquor concession all sewed up?

    Coors?

  11. 11
    Cassidy says:

    @Yutsano: Maybe they’ll all stand their ground at the same time and then we can place the kids with happy gay couples who really want children.

  12. 12
    Tara the Antisocial Social Worker says:

    I want the tinfoil franchise!

  13. 13
    Baud says:

    The last line of the article is the best:

    According to its website, The Citadel started as an idea in the “patriot blogosphere” in early 2012. It will not have a leader.

  14. 14
    Yutsano says:

    @BGinCHI: Or either Jack Daniels or Southern Comfort. Something tells me a good Italian wine will be quite the scarcity at this place.

    Oh and someone needs to provide the Cheetos, so some kind of convenience/grocery will pop up. Oh and what about electricity?

  15. 15
    efgoldman says:

    @Yutsano:

    Is now a good time to tell them Idaho has an income tax?

    I’m sure they’ll try the old “we’re not part of your country/state/county” dodge.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmnHLUW8Z1o

  16. 16

    Seeing as this is an open thread I thought I would let you know about the sweat shirt that I have been wearing today. I bought it in 1978 when I was serving at HMS Daedalus, home of the Fleet Air Arm Field Gun Crew. Yup 34 years old and still going strong.

    http://crittersbybritty.com/

  17. 17
    Irving says:

    @Rosie Outlook: Serfs are dull. We’ve got too many happy sewers and seamstresses to wear burlap. There are a few religious out there, but they’re rare. You get to write your own back story, and who wants to be someone dull? (FWIW, I remember talking with an aged Duke at a coronation who pointed out we were all rich and well-traveled enough that we all could have, say, been to the same party as Machiavelli or the King, if not been actual friends.)

  18. 18
    BGinCHI says:

    @Yutsano: Obviously no bike lanes. And the one screen cinema will only show Red Dawn and Chuck Norris flicks.

    I’d add George Dickel to your list. And pork rinds.

  19. 19
    BGinCHI says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt: Your sweatshirt is several years older than Ezra Klein.

  20. 20
    Cassidy says:

    If anyone is interested the UFC has finally started a women’s division and are considering having a women’s season of the Ultimate Fighter.

  21. 21
    dmsilev says:

    @Baud: How long until a warlord arises to rule over the Citadel with an iron fist? I mean, it’s a dramatic necessity, and will happen sooner or later, the only question being when.

  22. 22
    efgoldman says:

    @BGinCHI: @Litlebritdifrnt:

    Your sweatshirt is several years older than Ezra Klein.

    But I am twice the age of your sweatshirt.

  23. 23
    BGinCHI says:

    Among other things, we need a 2013 upcoming excellent TV show thread.

    I’m looking forward to that new Kevin Bacon show called The Following. Jan 21 I think.

  24. 24

    Oh and in other news, did anyone else see the brilliant Dr. Who Christmas special? My favorite line of the whole show

    ‘Good evening, I am a lizard woman from the dawn of time, and this is my wife’

    Strax was brilliant, Clara was brilliant, Madam Vastra and her wife Jenny were brilliant. Needless to say Matt Smith was just Epic. I cannot wait for the new series.

  25. 25
    BGinCHI says:

    @dmsilev: Shortly before the tree of liberty is sprinkled with the blood of idiots.

  26. 26
    MikeJ says:

    @efgoldman: How many were going to St Ives?

  27. 27
    efgoldman says:

    @dmsilev:

    How long until a warlord arises to rule over the Citadel with an iron fist?

    Including droit du seigneur, do you suppose?

  28. 28
    redshirt says:

    This is so awesome. On so many levels. Gun factory? With a fortress of serfs around it? Who pay the factory for the privilege? Who believe themselves to be PATRIOTS? It’s like an awesome parody of a bad movie, but real. Maybe.

    Of course it won’t be. But wouldn’t it be hilarious if it’s an entirely planned community (run by the Gun Factory) and people are assigned jobs based on 5 year plans and the like? For are freedoms!

  29. 29
    Mike in NC says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt: Well, I was given a navy blue turtleneck cashmere sweater when I was in college (graduated in ’77) and I still have the damn thing, which still fits, too.

  30. 30
    dmsilev says:

    @Yutsano:

    Oh and what about electricity?

    They’ll shoot bullets at little paddle wheels that will spin and run generators. If that’s not enough, I’m sure all the hot air emanating from the residents’ mouths could be piped into turbines.

  31. 31
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    This thing will not end well…with litigation and much rancor, I predict.

    Most of these “utopian communities” type things, regardless of the ideology involved, have a bad tendency to end in all sorts of personal animosity and enrich attorneys.

    Somehow, a large sum of money will be found missing, the land will be foreclosed on, and a bunch of people screwed out of their life savings.

  32. 32
    BGinCHI says:

    @redshirt: It’s like Thunderdome, but without the classy outfits.

  33. 33

    @BGinCHI:

    I know isn’t that surreal? I have a piece of clothing that I still wear that is older than a bunch of people on the tee-vee. Having said that I have a piece of clothing older than that, however I no longer wear it, it is the bridesmaids dress that I wore when my mother re-married in 1974.

  34. 34
    Baud says:

    @dmsilev:

    All Patriots are equal, but some are more equal than others.

  35. 35
    dmsilev says:

    @BGinCHI: Wouldn’t mulching be easier?

  36. 36
    Higgs Boson's Mate says:

    Other than the pure silliness there may be this; in good ol’ Vietnam my outfit was tasked with holding a hilltop. The problem with that is that they know exactly where you are and if they’re smart (Our opposition was) they know the ways down. Not the best idea.

  37. 37

    @Mike in NC:
    Don’t you just love it? My DH still wears a huge floppy sweat shirt that I bought in 1986 when I was serving in Hong Kong, I haven’t worn it for years but he loves it.

  38. 38
    redshirt says:

    A proper fascist version of the hippy commune.

  39. 39
    efgoldman says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    This thing will not end well…with litigation and much rancor, I predict.

    Oh, I expect litigation and rancor (great name for a law firm or a punk rock group, BTW) will be the least of it. I’d expect real blood to flow. That many guns and that many crazies? Epic!

  40. 40
    dmsilev says:

    @Baud: Two guns bad! Four guns good!

  41. 41
    BGinCHI says:

    @dmsilev: Perfect.

    Shortly before the tree of liberty is mulched with the blood of idiots.

  42. 42
    Mike in NC says:

    Said it before but I’ll say it again: never met anybody from Idaho who wasn’t a complete asshole and/or wingnut. The place is a haven for white supremacists and tax resistors. 25% of the population is Mormon, so there’s that, also too.

  43. 43
    BGinCHI says:

    Will they have a shooting range or will that just be what Main Street is called?

  44. 44
    RSA says:

    @dmsilev:

    How long until a warlord arises to rule over the Citadel with an iron fist?

    I’d nominate Dennis Hopper except, well… RIP.

  45. 45
    nellcote says:

    @Baud:

    It will not have a leader.

    Occupy the Citadel!

  46. 46
    Linda Featheringill says:

    @efgoldman:

    But I am twice the age of your sweatshirt.

    What a fine wine you are, my dear. :-)

  47. 47
    Tom says:

    How about warren Jeffs (when he gets out of prison)?

  48. 48
    redshirt says:

    Is it going to be self-sustaining? It must be, right? You can’t depend on the Sheeple’s grocery or hardware stores!

    So there will be a baker and a brewer and smithies of all sorts, right? Barbers and farmers and maid’s a milking, armed to the teeth? Will they have an internal currency? Hopefully gold based?

    So many questions! I wish I could live there with them, but like as a National Geographic reporter living with a tribe in Borneo or some such. Though they’d string me up sooner or later, I’m sure.

  49. 49
    SectionH says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt: Yes, although I had to wait until Boxing Day to download it. I thoroughly enjoyed it (“Is there a kitchen?” FTW!) even though no one will ever equal David Tennant’s Doctor for me.

  50. 50
    efgoldman says:

    @Linda Featheringill:

    What a fine wine you are, my dear. :-)

    You’ve never heard me whine, sweetheart. A privilege almost entirely reserved for mrs efgoldman.

  51. 51
    Raven says:

    @RSA: Ever see him in Riders of the Storm?

    ” A group of Vietnam vets disturbs television programs from a B-29 airplane. They want to sabotage Mrs Westinghouse’s political campaign who is running for the Senate in support of US military involvement in South America. Mrs Westinghouse orders some nuclear missiles to be launched against the saboteurs, but they manage to avoid the impact and even succeed in exposing a big secret of hers.”

  52. 52
    efgoldman says:

    @redshirt:

    So there will be a baker and a brewer and smithies of all sorts, right? Barbers and farmers and maid’s a milking, armed to the teeth?

    Hah! We got back from Colonial Williamsburg a couple of weeks ago. Sounds just the same. Almost. Not quite.

  53. 53
    Linda Featheringill says:

    @redshirt: #48

    Self sustaining? Oh my. Most people don’t know how much work that entails. And how few comforts.

  54. 54
    Alex says:

    Apparently wingnut morons are unfamiliar with the term “Maginot Line.”

    The people who forked the money over to these grifters stay at Excalibur when they go to Las Vegas, because they think it is safer than, say, the Bellagio.

  55. 55
    efgoldman says:

    @Linda Featheringill:

    Self sustaining? Oh my. Most people don’t know how much work that entails. And how few comforts.

    I’m sure they all think they’ll have their flat screens and Play Stations in between the gun racks and the ammo shelves.

  56. 56
    dmsilev says:

    @redshirt: Never mind that, how about the raw materials for that weapons shop? Are they going to mine and smelt their own ore, produce their own propellants (better have good chemical quality control on that one), make their own machine tools to do all the precision shaping and forming? Etc.

  57. 57
    Baud says:

    @Linda Featheringill: @efgoldman:

    They won’t last a week without Internet porn.

  58. 58
    Yutsano says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt: The new TARDIS interior is very purdy. And a nice throwback to the earlier designs from the classic series.

    @redshirt: Nah. They expect all those services to be performed for them. They have good patriotin’ to do, like target practice and teaching children the Second Amendment is the only one that matters. The fact that they don’t have anyone to actually DO these things is beside the point.

    Thought experiment: Herman Cain applies to join them. Hilarity or instantly adopted token?

  59. 59
    General Stuck says:

    Liberty in a red state commune, will have to be funded by taxes from wealthy blue states, just like they are now. We call it the south.

  60. 60
    BGinCHI says:

    @Yutsano: Sugar Daddy.

  61. 61
    Warren Terra says:

    Can some civil engineer weigh in on the virtue of building on a mountaintop in Idaho? I mean, it sounds all butch and manly, and just the thing for a walled fort to repel invaders – but in terms of having a sustainable post-apocalyptic community with access to water and survivable winters, wouldn’t a valley be a better choice?

  62. 62
    Mnemosyne (iPhone) says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt:

    Is River still a character on the show? ‘Cos if she’s not, I may be out.

  63. 63
    phantomist says:

    As soon as I see something advertized or promoted using the words ‘liberty’ or ‘freedom’, I reflexively check for my wallet.

  64. 64
    dmsilev says:

    @redshirt: On second thought, we missed a key point from the article. They intend to support themselves by being a tourist attraction. I mean, who among us hasn’t been on a road trip in northern Idaho and felt the irresistible urge to detour and spend a day enjoying the thrills of SurvivorVille?

  65. 65

    @SectionH: I agree. Last year, or perhaps before, I was watching a Dr. Who special from the Royal Albert Hall. It was all about the music and the orchestra played the “regeneration” music and showed David morphing into Matt and there was not a dry eye in the house, I mean literally the entire audience was in tears when David said “I don’t want to”. I love Matt, I truly do, but I really miss David.

  66. 66
    Warren Terra says:

    @redshirt:

    So there will be a baker and a brewer and smithies of all sorts, right? Barbers and farmers and maid’s a milking, armed to the teeth?

    You know these people. This will be an army with a thousand colonels and no privates; a lot of wanna-be cattle barons, and nobody signing up to muck out the cow sheds.

  67. 67
    Cassidy says:

    @Warren Terra: A male prostitute would make a killing.

  68. 68
    Dave says:

    I know it’s fun to speculate on what grisly end this clusterfuck will meet, but let’s be honest: it will never get that far. Money will be collected from the rubes, and the organizers will disappear into the night. Not one structure will ever be built.

  69. 69

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone):

    There has been a lot of speculation about that. There are discussions that we may see River and The Doctors last date and there are others saying that their “last date” will be seen in the background. We know that their time lines are moving in the opposite direction, and we know that eventually they will end up in the Library when River will die. She always knew that would be the case, he not so much. There are also thoughts that seeing as River’s conscious was downloaded there may be a way for her to come back. We shall see.

  70. 70
    Higgs Boson's Mate says:

    @Linda Featheringill:
    True that. In my hippy days I stayed with some folks up in the Northwest They had some acreage on a road I believe named something “Umptux” up in southern Washington.

    Anyhow, they took the good time and trouble to purchase some good plow horses and some mules and they further found horse-drawn farming equipment. At the time it was still being sold to South and Central America.

    They were working their asses and their asses’ asses off. No salt, whoops. Gotta have flour, damn. Thread, that’s in town.Cloth; gotta weave it and then sew it into garments.

    Those folks hurried me on my way when I suggested that they grow pot and relax.

  71. 71
    Allen says:

    It really pisses me when these wingnuts move to my home state, and not just my home state, the home portion of my home state. at least the Mormons are Boise, and south.

  72. 72
    Capt. Seaweed says:

    The Rajneeshee’s already tried this in Oregon back in the 1980’s and it didn’t end particularly well. And they had more money and more land and more of a Plan. They were also heavily armed and promised the locals not to worry about them trying to change everything. Like taking over all the local politics was just an afterthought.

  73. 73
    Ken says:

    @Baud:

    It will not have a leader.

    Yes. Undoubtedly.

    So (just idle curiosity, you understand), whose name is on the deed to that 20 acre estate? Or, if it’s held by a corporation, who is on the board of directors?

  74. 74
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt:

    Brit, OT if you’re still around, did you see my Email today that you might have been hacked or have a virus? I got a very odd message supposedly from you.

  75. 75
    amk says:

    HP = stupidity, courtesy, the dame who is quite adept in losing millions billions.

  76. 76
    Baud says:

    @Ken:

    King Arthur: Please, please, good people, I am in haste. Who lives in that castle Citadel?

    Woman: No one lives there.

    King Arthur: Then who is your lord?

    Woman: We don’t have a lord.

    Dennis: I told you, we’re an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to be a sort of executive officer for the week…

    King Arthur: Yes…

    Dennis: …but all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting…

    King Arthur: Yes I see…

    Dennis: …by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs…

    King Arthur: Be quiet!

    Dennis: …but by a two thirds majority in the case of…

    King Arthur: Be quiet! I order you to be quiet!

    Woman: Order, eh? Who does he think he is?

  77. 77
    Rosie Outlook says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt: I don’t have any clothes that old, but I have sheets that are so old they were made in the U.S. by organized labor at the Dan Rivet company. I inherited them from my grandmother who died in 1980 and she had bought them in the ’70’s.

  78. 78
    Raven says:

    @Higgs Boson’s Mate: We had that kind of deal going on in Champaign-Urbana in those days. Big ass gardens, worker controlled collectives with “community taxes” that funded other such affairs. It was fun for a while.

  79. 79
    Raven says:

    @Rosie Outlook: We drove through Danville, VA, home of Dan River just the other day. They have a really cool Tank Museum there.

  80. 80
    Emma says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt: Yep. Epic. My favorite lines:

    “It’s smaller on the outside”
    “well, that’s different”

  81. 81
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Dave:

    I agree with this assessment, actually. The rubes will be fleeced and nothing will ever come of it.

  82. 82
    Maude says:

    They will run into nasty weather up there.
    Are they drilling wells?
    They will have winds on that hill. Winters will be cold and hot summers.

  83. 83
    SectionH says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt:

    Oh yeah! The End of Time is srsly tear-jerky.

    I’m hoping we get a lot of the Ninth and Tenth Doctors for the 50th anniversary special(s).

  84. 84
    Emma says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt: I saw that too. And wept like an idiot. Still, I have a thing for Eccleston. He always looked on the edge of cutting loose and burning down the place.

  85. 85
    Felonius Monk says:

    Umm, let’s see: Mostly closed community — everyone sitting around smelling each others farts — oxygen levels decline — people start acting crazy — guns are drawn — shooting starts —– WOW, Utopia!

  86. 86
    Geoduck says:

    @Mike in NC:

    I’ll say it again: never met anybody from Idaho who wasn’t a complete asshole and/or wingnut. The place is a haven for white supremacists and tax resistors. 25% of the population is Mormon, so there’s that, also too.

    No idea what the man is like in real life, but native Idahoan Patrick McManus writes very funny stories, so I’ll give him a pass. As someone else noted, I’m really curious where the Citadel plans to get their electricity. If they truly plan to be self-sufficient, their best bet is (shudder) solar panels and (gag puke) windmills.

    @Litlebritdifrnt:

    the orchestra played the “regeneration” music and showed David morphing into Matt and there was not a dry eye in the house, I mean literally the entire audience was in tears when David said “I don’t want to”.

    I liked Tennent as the Doctor just fine (as I do Smith), but my tears remained firmly in their ducts, refusing to be jerked, after wallowing through the – painfully – extended – farewell – montage that proceeds that scene. And, ya know, Tennent did want to leave, so.. yeah. Enjoyed the new Christmas special.

  87. 87
    MBL says:

    Would it be wrong for the feds to reduce the place to a smoking crater right after everyone moves in, just to make a point?

    … Damn, the answer’s yes, isn’t it.

  88. 88
    Rosie Outlook says:

    @Rosie Outlook: Er, that’s Dan River, not Dan Rivet. Stupid spell check changed it and I didn’t catch it.

    I hate spell check with the burning intensity of a thousand suns but can’t turn it off on this phone. Well, I can turn it off, but a day or so later it sneakily turns itself on again.

  89. 89
    Raven says:

    @MBL: MOAB

  90. 90
    Rosie Outlook says:

    @Warren Terra: Well, like Irving said, burlap isn’t fun.

  91. 91

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    Yeah I got it, sent Norton to do a complete scan, hopefully that will fix it.

  92. 92
    Gravenstone says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt: I commented on FB that it must simply suck to be Matt Smith. First he has to work with Karen Gillan, and now Jenna-Louise Coleman. Simply torture…

  93. 93
    Higgs Boson's Mate says:

    @Rosie Outlook:
    No harm. I kind of like “Dan Rivet.”

    Picture bass driven music, a shadowy figure walks down a dark and sinister ally. And then

    DAN RIVET, Private Eye.

  94. 94
    Rosie Outlook says:

    @Geoduck: I have all of McManus’s essay collections. I believe he has switched to writing murder mysteries.

  95. 95
    RSA says:

    @Raven:

    Ever see him in Riders of the Storm?

    No–thanks for the recommendation!

  96. 96
    Rosie Outlook says:

    @Higgs Boson’s Mate: Hee Hee Hee Hee. (Spell check capitalized every damn Hee. I’d stand outside Foxconn and protest if I didn’t fear being dragged inside and enslaved.)

  97. 97
    Exurban Mom says:

    Riiiiiight, a tourist attraction. Yeah, I’d love to bring my kiddo to a place where every wahoo is armed to the teeth. +2, holiday break, y’all. These wahoos deserve each other.

    But it will most certainly not come to fruition…we will see much litigation and belly-aching and money that just evaporates.

  98. 98
    Suzanne says:

    @Yutsano:

    Oh and someone needs to provide the Cheetos, so some kind of convenience/grocery will pop up. Oh and what about electricity?

    I predict ranch dressing sales will be strong.

    I actually think this is a great idea. I would just like to get them all in there, then build the wall about 300 feet higher while they’re all asleep.

  99. 99

    I thought Eccleston was a brilliantly mad Doctor, but I pretty much knew he wouldn’t stick around, I thought Tennant was my favorite Doctor ever (since Davidson) but I knew once he lost Rose he could not quite live with himself. I was so hoping to hate the fuck out of Matt Smith but not only did he grow on me but I now actually like him (if there is one thing I love it is that he scratches his left cheek with his right arm, constantly.) It is really weird that I have grown up hating the doctor after the one I loved. I was born in 1960, the show was born in 1963, it is my entire life. I am guessing that I will love the next doctor, just as I loved the last one.

  100. 100
    Ash Can says:

    I sincerely hope nothing actually gets built and nobody actually moves into this idiotic clusterfuck. I’d cheer them on and then laugh at them when their scheme crashes and burns, but I hate the idea of kids being dragged into this bullshit.

    @Litlebritdifrnt: The characters were fabulous in the Christmas special. I love what they’ve done with Strax, how they’ve taken a rather nasty villain character and made him comic relief, of all things. And I’m looking forward to seeing how they resolve the paradox of Clara/Oswin. I think she could be able to out-River River. :)

  101. 101
    redshirt says:

    @dmsilev: It’s for the new “Ironic Hipster Vacation Tourlines”. Whom do you think keeps Ken Hamm’s Creationist Museum going (besides the state of Kentucky)? Ironic hipsters, of course. Lots of disposable income!

    I hope the tours are done just like at Old Williamsburg, where the residents are forced to perform for each group and answer questions “in character”.

  102. 102
    Origuy says:

    @amk: The Autonomy deal happened before Meg got to HP. It was her predecessor, Leo Apotheker, who cooked that one up. I wouldn’t vote for her for anything, but as CEO, she’s been the best one since I got there. (Starting with Carly, I was at Compaq before the merger.)

  103. 103
    Matt says:

    @Linda Featheringill:

    Yes. See also the Tea Party.

  104. 104
    trollhattan says:

    O/T Lisa Jackson resigning as EPA chief. Can’t wait for the nomination fight over the next to head the Republican’s Most Dreaded Agency.

    http://seattletimes.com/html/p.....rator.html

    My sole stipulation for the Citadel: gate must lock from the outside.

  105. 105
    WJS says:

    I’m surprised no one has mentioned Verdun. These good, God-fearing Americans should look to the wisdom of the French, who created a fortress, nearly lost it to some wily Germans, and then proceeded to hang on to it for dear life, resulting in nearly a million casualties for both sides.

    Such an impenetrable fortress, one that can only be defended by such brave folk, would be a great place for them to sink all of their dough. If they think they can live on a mountain top that cannot be subdued in mere moments by modern arms, let them entertain their delusions of martial adequacy. This sounds like nothing more than an attempt to assert sovereign citizen status and create martyrs for the noble cause. God speed to them in their endeavors.

  106. 106
    Ohio Mom says:

    @redshirt: Most of the people I know who’ve been to the Creation Museum are actually senior-citizens and Jewish, but yeah, they went there for a laugh and were not disappointed. They wouldn’t have gone if it was a trek but we’re all just across the river.

  107. 107
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Higgs Boson’s Mate: “Dan Rivet” sounds halfway between Mike Hammer and Don Draper.

  108. 108
    Merganser says:

    “[M]otion-activated soap dispenser” is the new pink Himalayan salt.

  109. 109
    srv says:

    You know, there is just too much nattering nabob of negativity here. I’m wondering if some Jonathan Ive inspired armaments and Silicon Valley glibertarianism might lead to a new form of gunsmithing.

  110. 110
    Cacti says:

    A company town with willing marks.

    It’s a robber baron’s wet dream.

  111. 111
    amk says:

    @Origuy: from the linky

    In the aftermath of the Autonomy fiasco, Whitman blames everyone but herself and the current HP directors. First she points a finger at her predecessor, Apotheker. Apotheker smiles and benignly lets it be known he is ready to help: “I will make myself available, however I can, to assist HP …”

    (Apotheker has since assumed a more assertive stance in reminding everyone of the role that Ray Lane, HP’s chairman, played in the Autonomy transaction: “No single CEO is ever able to make a decision on a major acquisition in isolation … and certainly not without the full support of the chairman of the board.”)

    Whitman then focuses on the company’s then-CTO, Shane Robison, who led the team that performed the due diligence. Blaming the well-liked Robison, who recently – and conveniently – retired, hasn’t won Whitman any friends inside the company.

    Finally, she accuses Mike Lynch, Autonomy’s founder and chief, of “accounting improprieties”. HP considers a referral to the SEC’s enforcement division and the UK’s Serious Fraud Office, and threatens to force Lynch to testify “under the penalty of perjury”.

    Yup, typical bestest ceo alright.

  112. 112
    Walker says:

    @Geoduck:

    And, ya know, Tennent did want to leave, so.. yeah.

    Exactly. He went into the job saying he wanted to outlast Baker and he barely made Davidson’s term.

    The rapid regenerations in the new series are really starting to destroy their emotional value.

  113. 113
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Merganser: I have motion-activated soap, too. I pick it up out of the soap tray with my right hand to activate it.

  114. 114
    different-church-lady says:

    Hey, as long as none of them ever leave the compound then I’m all for it.

  115. 115
    Merganser says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Sounds like something you’d find in a bathroom, not a powder room.

  116. 116
    Bago says:

    The best part about Christmas was getting my Fox News fed Mother to read about Operation Ajax.

    https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/cia-operation-ajax/id472099770?mt=8

    Given that my family is bound by the oil industry, it was a real eye opener for her. I lent her the iPad, gave her a laptop to corroborate any assertions that she doubted, and came back 8 hours later to a woman still processing the fact that oil rules our lives, and gets people killed. If you have an iOS device, download and read the book, as it will give you perspective and is a useful tool to educate people who normally dismiss critical thought with the “blame America first” trope.

  117. 117
    Uncle Ebeneezer says:

    How funny would it be if on move-in day, a dozen or so white families found themselves vastly outnumbered by “those people?”

  118. 118
    Geoduck says:

    @Rosie Outlook:

    I have all of McManus’s essay collections. I believe he has switched to writing murder mysteries.

    Yeah, I’ve read ’em, but they just aren’t the same. I also read a article/interview which said his latest MM is gathering dust at his publishers due the usual voodoo-based marketing decisions. He did put out another collection of short stuff (The Horse In My Garage) that was explicitly described as “stuff I scrounged out of my back-files”, so I’d say he’s pretty close to being retired. He’s getting up there in age, so I can’t blame him.

  119. 119
  120. 120
    Comrade Carter says:

    Foxconn must be sooo jealous. Sure, they have a captive workforce living in company dormitories bound by company rules, but I don’t think they’ve been able to demand their serfs buy Apple products as a condition of employment.

    Or, on the other hand, they probably don’t have to by Samsung or any of the other vendors that use their products.

    Why is it always Apple with you?

  121. 121
    Bago says:

    Additionally, it would be hilarious to troll their message board with the knowledge that walls are useless to stop cheap 200 dollar quadracopter drones carrying a a cell phone to use GPS to paint targets inside of the citadel.
    Just sort of leaving that out there.

  122. 122
    arguingwithsignposts says:

    I love this half-survivalist gun-nut/half-Dr. Who thread. What makes Balloon Juice.

  123. 123
    redshirt says:

    @Bago: The UN will be sure to have a drone floating above the Citadel 24/7, for their own survival, of course. Because such a force as Citadel is a direct threat to UN World Domination and they’ll stop at nothing to thwart the mighty Patriots of Citadel.

  124. 124
    MikeJ says:

    @arguingwithsignposts: I support the right to bear sonic screwdrivers. Also fish fingers and custard.

  125. 125
    J. Michael Neal says:

    UCLA should investigate this newfangled concept called “defense.” They could use some.

  126. 126
  127. 127
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Merganser: Yeah, my house doesn’t have a powder room.

  128. 128
    Rosie Outlook says:

    @Geoduck: I noticed his later collections were beginning to repeat themselves ; by the time I got to the final Strange story, I could have written it myself. But his earlier essays were the funniest things I’ve ever read.

  129. 129
    arguingwithsignposts says:

    @MikeJ: You can have my fish fingers when you pry them from my cold, dead hands!

  130. 130
    Jon H says:

    20 acres?

    200 families?

    I doubt these are the sorts of people who would be keen on living 10 families per acre.

  131. 131
    Joseph Nobles says:

    Cue Charlton Heston:

    “It’s a FEMA camp! THE CITADEL IS A FEMA CAMP!”

  132. 132
    Morzer says:

    Sounds like a load of Benewah balls to me.

    Sorry, too indecorous?

  133. 133
    MikeJ says:

    @Joseph Nobles: I have enough fun with my wingnut neighbors just by naming my wireless network “ATF surveillance van”.

  134. 134
    Joseph Nobles says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt: Coincidentally, this will be the best way to completely wig out the Citadel.

  135. 135
    Soonergrunt says:

    Who else besides me thinks this thing will never get any farther than one or two related families living on it, and the rest of them scammed out of their money, just like these things almost always do?

  136. 136
    arguingwithsignposts says:

    @MikeJ: Win!

  137. 137
    Joseph Nobles says:

    @MikeJ: I’ve been meaning to rename mine “DEA Surveillance Post – #34R-B” for that one resident in my condo we all know about.

  138. 138
    arguingwithsignposts says:

    @Joseph Nobles: @MikeJ: Damn, now I almost wish I had wingnut neighbors so I could rename my wifi.

  139. 139
    Suzanne says:

    @MikeJ: I always wanted to name mine “Phoenix Police Department Sex Crimes Division—Pedophile Surveillance Unit”.

  140. 140
    Bago says:

    @redshirt: I was thinking of a kid with a Christmas present added to anonymous message board trolling leading to amusing anecdotes.

    If I was 17, I would have SO much fun messing with their heads.

  141. 141
    Rosie Outlook says:

    @Morzer: *chortle*. Shall we say the Fortress of Wingnuttia is more fun than a barrel of benwa balls?

  142. 142
    Brachiator says:

    @Soonergrunt:

    Who else besides me thinks this thing will never get any farther than one or two related families living on it, and the rest of them scammed out of their money, just like these things almost always do?

    This, or some similarly dumb experiment, will end badly. Children will suffer.

    Delusion and fear too often provides a catalyst for tragedy. An ordinary scam in this case would be a positive outcome.

  143. 143
    Anne Laurie says:

    @Geoduck: Glad to find another couple McManus readers! You’re right, the mysteries are strictly okay, but his earlier collections can still put a smile on my face…

  144. 144
    Anne Laurie says:

    @Soonergrunt: Heck, if I thought it would get beyond the “take money from the wililng marks” stage, I wouldn’t be able to make fun of these fools with a clear conscience.

  145. 145
    freelancer says:

    @Suzanne:

    “Agenda 21 Gun UN Mobile Confiscation Unit.”

    I have a few ideas for my network name.

  146. 146
    arguingwithsignposts says:

    “Illuminati Listening Post #1523”

    This would be a fun game.

  147. 147
    Dexter's new approach says:

    Freedom and central planning. At last the wingnuts get their utopia.

  148. 148
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @MikeJ: that is just fucking awe to the some with WIN sauce.

  149. 149
    JohnK says:

    @Jon H: Their plan is for 2000-3000 acres. The 20 acre purchase is probably the key strategic high ground. Acquiring the surrounding 3000 acres might be tricky never mind building The Wall around it.

  150. 150
    CaseyL says:

    Isn’t there another wingnut paradise being built somewhere in New Hampshire, or did that one fizzle out already?

    I would love it if the Citadel actually got built and was successful for, oh, say five years. Long enough for them to acquire the additional acreage and become home to a few thousand wingnuts. All living in a walled citadel far, far away from anyone.

    Smallish population, isolation, and a “leaderless” people who don’t believe in government regulation or central planning. Think they’ll have any waste disposal systems more advanced than septic tanks and landfill? I don’t. Within one year, the place will be rancid with contaminants.

    It’ll be one hell of a growth medium for mutagenic strains of infectious diseases. Flu, dysentery, e. coli, hantavirus, no doubt some new variants of STD.

    Won’t that be something to see.

  151. 151
    freelancer says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt:

    I did, I thought the villain was totes weak, but I’m head over heels for Clara the new companion.

    It was surprising, I generally love Moffat’s original villains: The Weeping Angels, The Silence, the Vashta Nerada, but the Snowmen fell flat for me.

  152. 152
    Concerned Citizen says:

    @Cassidy: favorited. I couldn’t agree more.

  153. 153
    Yutsano says:

    @CaseyL: We’re gonna need a bigger wall. And quite possibly a tactical nuke from orbit just to be sure.

  154. 154
    Xenos says:

    @Higgs Boson’s Mate:

    Other than the pure silliness there may be this; in good ol’ Vietnam my outfit was tasked with holding a hilltop.

    A fortified compound on top of a hill? Has that worked for anyone since the invention of the trebuchet?

    If it came down to vicious fighting a single mortar company could wipe them out unless they have some very deep caves Tora Bora-style.

  155. 155
    Elizabelle says:

    Ah. New thread up. JCole has lost another friend and mentor.

    Anyhoo: cruising the Houston Chronicle for any news on how GHWBush is doing, and found this:

    Northern California firefighters found an orphan bobcat kitten who seems to have imprinted on them. She’s too nice — she was friendly from the start, and a rescue group is trying to toughen her up for returning to the wild.

    Wondering if this little bobcat will end up living closer to human company; maybe she’ll be a bobcat ambassador.

  156. 156
    Brachiator says:

    @CaseyL:

    I would love it if the Citadel actually got built and was successful for, oh, say five years. Long enough for them to acquire the additional acreage and become home to a few thousand wingnuts. All living in a walled citadel far, far away from anyone.

    You mean, for example, like a David Koresh? Problem is, wingnuts drag in their families, including lots of people who are not quite as dialed in to the crazy, but who go along for all kinds of reasons.

    I truly love to mock these people, but there are times when the craziness will not easily be contained behind the walls of a citadel.

    When Koresh finally unravelled, 54 adults and 28 children were dead.

    Hopefully, this pie-in-the-walled-city crap will dissipate with maybe some money lost and some egos bruised, and nothing more.

  157. 157
    Anne Laurie says:

    @CaseyL: The Free State Project supporters don’t want to separate themselves, they want to take over New Hampster by force of numbers combined with their irresistable arguments for FREEEEDUM. Since NH has a long tradition of leaching off their neighbors (said the bitter Masshole) while proudly rejecting gubmint efforts to enforce minimum safety / education standards, the FSP people should’ve fit right in. Two problems: The natives (think David Souter) may be stone-hearted conservatives, but they hate People From Away even more than they hate liberals; and so many non-aligned suburbanites have moved into the southern part of the state to avoid MA taxes that NH has moved from reliably red to purple-trending-blue.

  158. 158
    karen marie says:

    @Suzanne: I’ll volunteer for that party!

  159. 159
    trollhattan says:

    @Elizabelle:

    Hard not to say “awww, bobcat.”

    Slightly longer story, here.

    http://www.sacbee.com/2012/12/.....k=misearch

    Sierra Wildlife Rescue folks are tops. Used to work with a lady who’s an active volunteer; they do it all. She and a friend once went on a call for a “hawk” that had been hit by a car. Got there to find a very pissed, injured golden eagle on the roadside. Her pics of the eagle in the friend’s kitchen were a sight. (Large doesn’t begin to describe.)

  160. 160
    Brachiator says:

    Tried to post up an appreciation of the latest Doctor Who Christmas special, but my browser is acting up.

    In short, I loved it.

    Good night everybody.

  161. 161
    Chris says:

    @redshirt:

    The UN will be sure to have a drone floating above the Citadel 24/7, for their own survival, of course. Because such a force as Citadel is a direct threat to UN World Domination and they’ll stop at nothing to thwart the mighty Patriots of Citadel.

    Heh.

    Reading this about a Patriots’ Citadel made me think of the Calvin and Hobbes where he builds a mighty snow fort in defiance of the neighborhood, but nobody cares.

  162. 162
    Elizabelle says:

    @trollhattan:

    I’m thinking that little bobcat is not suited for the wild, and should land in a sanctuary or even a topflight zoo.

    One of the SacBee readers suggested she do film work.

    Another suggested she be exposed to video games to wild her up.

  163. 163
    g says:

    @redshirt:

    This is so awesome. On so many levels. Gun factory? With a fortress of serfs around it? Who pay the factory for the privilege?

    Let’s see how long it takes before they start paying them in scrip that can only be accepted at the company store.

  164. 164
    Calouste says:

    @Xenos: The Nazis managed to hang on for four months at Monte Casino, in the face of bombers and artillery. Of course it helps to have some artillery of your own.

  165. 165
    sm*t cl*de says:

    Oh and in other news, did anyone else see the brilliant Dr. Who Christmas special?

    The action supposedly happens in the lead-up to Christmas Eve of 1892, and we see scenes of a spiral staircase to the clouds — shown by the light of a full moon — when as any fule kno, the full moon in that month was actually December 4th.

    I am disappoint by the lack of adherence to physical reality in Dr Who episodes.

  166. 166
    hep kitty says:

    Good morning. Apparently people are setting homeless people on fire in LA and pushing people onto subway tracks in NYC. We need more guns.

  167. 167
    greenergood says:

    The Citadel, Idaho: twinned with Mordor, Middle Earth.

  168. 168
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @greenergood: Kind of an insult to Mordor, isn’t it?

  169. 169
    Ronzoni Rigatoni says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt: Friend of mine from Olde Blighty (Taffs Well, near Cardiff) gave me a hand knitted black sweater (Merino Wool) which was made for somebody in the RAF during the Big Deuce (WW II). Probably as old as I am. I wore it for years when it still fit me. Still have it as it bears a white blot from the first daughter’s first puke (she’s 46 now and hasn’t changed much). Unlike people, I guess, some things were truly built to last.

  170. 170
    bemused says:

    Wow, all those paranoids living together in one walled off place. They envision a freedom lovers paradise but what good is it without any liberals to hate?

  171. 171
    jayjaybear says:

    @freelancer: That’s possibly because it wasn’t an original villain. The Great Intelligence is a 2nd Doctor villain, originally taking possession of robotic yetis (the episode “The Abominable Snowmen”, in contrast to this episode about abominable Snowmen). The reveal to that was really awkward and confusing, though, and unless you’re a Whoviac you’ll probably have missed the significance.

  172. 172
    Wally Ballou says:

    @Rosie Outlook: I can remember being 10 or 11 and literally laughing myself sick at the one about Rancid Crabtree rigging his fishing shack with a mast and sail. Good times.

  173. 173
    catclub says:

    @Dexter’s new approach: Freedom, central planning, and an overbearing homeowners association.

    Sounds like the start of a Monty Python skit.

    Freedom, central planning, an overbearing homeowners association, and dysentery.

  174. 174
    Lojasmo says:

    Ron Paul can finally be president of something!

  175. 175
    bemused says:

    @phantomist:

    I get the same feeling seeing ads for “Christian” dating sites, health insurance plans and banks.

  176. 176
    Cassidy says:

    So, maybe a new open thread, or something?

  177. 177
    Woodrowfan says:

    @Mike in NC: I have a very good friend from Idaho and she’s neither a wingnut nor a jerk. She has lived in Northern Virginia for 25 years so maybe that has something to do with it…

    She is conservative, but in the “reads the Economist and listens to NPR” and not the “What Rush said today” type…

  178. 178
    Woodrowfan says:

    wait a minute, isn’t the Doctor married to River now??

  179. 179
    TenguPhule says:

    One gun to rule them all. One gun to find them. One gun to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.

  180. 180
    TenguPhule says:

    @Woodrowfan

    wait a minute, isn’t the Doctor married to River now??

    Was, River is going back to the 9th Doctor to meet him in the library of air pirahnas.

    The current doctor is going forwards to find out about the mysterious girl who keeps getting killed once per episode.

  181. 181
    Bendal says:

    Ok, I’m a civil engineer, grew up on a farm, and have read extensively about medieval and ancient history warfare, so take what I’ve got to say with that in mind.

    Basically, anyone buying into this plan is stark raving insane.

    First off, unless they are buying a high mountain valley, they’ll have no water except for what falls during the winter as snow. That won’t be nearly enough for their own survival, much less animals and gardening and sanitation.

    Second, a wall around a square mile of land? Really? That’s a wall FOUR MILES in length. Let’s assume it’s a standard double stone wall with rubble/soil in the middle, and it’s 10′ thick and 10′ high. A wall like that would require nearly 90,000 cubic yards of material to construct, assuming standard compaction rates for mountain soil. If they build the face out of stone 1′ thick, they’ll need over 210,000 cubic feet of cut stone. This is before towers, gates, outposts, etc. You could build the wall from timbers, but they rot and will burn as well. A reinforced concrete wall could be a lot thinner, but would also be a LOT more expensive.

    Now, since this wall is there for a purpose, presumably for defense from whatever they’re living here for, you need someone to patrol it. A good rule of thumb is a sentry or watch post every 100-200′. You’ll need over 100, manned at least at night in case the zombies/mutants/government comes at you. That’s 100+ people who aren’t doing anything but patrolling the wall, not eating, not growing, not making stuff.

    Let’s get to making stuff. Are they going back to pre-Industrial Revolution days? Blacksmiths, farriers, horse drawn farm equipment, stuff like that? Animals don’t eat snow in the winter, and each cow/horse/ox/sheep/whatever eats a LOT of hay, every day they can’t graze for themselves, and if they’re doing hard work in the fields, you have to feed them then too. That’s a lot of hay growing, along with the people food growing, etc, etc. Even if they had a stream flowing through a mountain valley, it wouldn’t be enough unless they dammed it up to create a reservoir, then they’d have to treat it since all their and their animals’ sewage is headed to that stream too.

    This proposal sounds like something the guys from City Slickers would have come up with, long before they ever went to that ranch in the movie. Oh, and also, a mountaintop fortress worked really well in the days of ground-based armies. When you also have to worry about (black) helicopters and drones, not so much.

  182. 182
    Fred says:

    Remember “The Mother Earth News”? Back in the 1970s they published articles about subsistance farming, how to modify your VW to run on corn husks, building a livable two room house out of stuff you could collect out of dumpsters and things like that. Of course that was a couple years after they got tired of trying to promote a communist revolution in the USA.
    Anyway, they had a big place in Hendersonville SC they touted as a research center and educational facility. So my wife and I were in the neighborhood and stopped by to pay a visit and caugh up some madatory donation for the pivilege. It was so sad to see all those grand experiments rusting in a big field. The sun tracking solar parabolic water boiler, the mold covered wood masonry building, all just useless utopian toys that looked so grand in the magazine. And then there was the class in, I forget what but the “professor” was bitching about the management and dammit he was getting the hell out of there and moving down the road to start his own blah, blahh…
    Now this utopian coop in Idaho sounds a lot like that except based on paranoia instead of let’s all save the world type idealism.
    Of cousre the guy who is puting this togeather will up and evaporate with whatever cash that can be conned out of any fools dumb enough to hand over their life savings. Any dumb lieutenants left behind will probably get strung up ’cause there’s no peace love and groovy vibes in this crowd.

  183. 183

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