An Odd Christmas Day Document Dump

Seems like they could have timed this better for more exposure:

The Times on Tuesday released about 1,200 previously unpublished files kept by the Boy Scouts of America on volunteers and employees expelled for suspected sexual abuse.

The files, which have been redacted of victims’ names and other identifying information, were opened from 1985 through 1991. They can be found in a database along with two decades of files released by order of the Oregon Supreme Court in October. The database also contains summary information on about 3,200 additional files opened from 1947 to 2005 that have not been released publicly.

Together, the material in the database represents the most complete accounting of suspected sexual abuse in the Scouts that has been made public. All of the material was obtained as a result of lawsuits against the Scouts by alleged abuse victims or by media organizations. The Boy Scouts kept the files for nearly a century for internal use only, to keep suspected abusers from rejoining.

Seems like the Scouts should spend less time fainting over possible gay members and scout leaders and start looking into the pedophiles they have known about for decades.

75 replies
  1. 1
    Maude says:

    For internal use only. CYA.

  2. 2
    hildebrand says:

    Getting the vapors over what someone might do is so much easier than addressing what somebody actually did.

  3. 3
    Anonymous says:

    Seems like the Scouts should spend less time fainting over possible gay members and scout leaders and start looking into the pedophiles they have known about for decades.

    Now where have we heard this story before…

  4. 4
    jheartney says:

    An organization the size of the Scouts is inevitably going to have some problems with sexual predators in its ranks. The real question is what does it do when it finds them. Did they report the incidents to the relevant authorities? Did they work to separate accused staff from contact with children in their care? Did they try to cover up the incidents? Did they threaten victims to keep them quiet?

    The Catholic Church has really been a model for exactly what not to do when dealing with pedophile staff. If there’s any wrong way to handle any part of it, that’s precisely what they have done. Hope the Scouts are not as bad (admittedly a very low bar).

  5. 5
    Punchy says:

    The Boy Scouts kept the files for nearly a century for internal use only, to keep suspected abusers from rejoining getting sued


  6. 6
    cathyx says:

    Were the police notified in these cases?

  7. 7
    JPL says:

    OT.. It appears that Papa Bush is in intensive care. The only time I voted for him was during the republican primary for President when he was running against Reagan in 1980. I wish him well though.

  8. 8
    Maude says:


    Well, at least fiscal cliff goes to the back burner. President Obama is flying home anyway. He can’t catch a break.

  9. 9
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    Seems like the Scouts should spend less time fainting over possible gay members and scout leaders and start looking into the pedophiles they have known about for decades.

    That would be the scientific method applied to this, which of course is anti-Christian in nature, so we won’t go there. No way, no how.

  10. 10
    Seanly says:

    Ummm, it’s only been 65 years since 1947. If they have been keeping files for “over a century”, that would imply they have some files since the founding in 1910.

  11. 11
    Liberty60 says:

    I was a Scout leader from 2007-2008 in Southern California.
    Based on my limited viewpoint, our Council did an admirable job of protecting youth.

    In openly acknowledged response to erlier scandals, the Scouts have a rigorous program of alerting authorities and have a mandatory reporting requirement.

    Any program is only as good as the people enforcing it, and in my case, the officials I worked with, who trained me, were zealous about hammering in the importance of it.

    I don’t really have any insight on what went on previous or subsequent to my involvement, but the ones I worked with did a pretty good job.

    Oh, and by the way, our Council also had a policy of deliberately not enforcing the ban on gays; we had at least one same-sex set of parents, who were welcomed.

    Whether this is the way it is in other areas of the country, I can’t say.

  12. 12
    Higgs Boson's Mate says:

    Twisted me, the post called to mind the Monty Python Expedition to Lake Pahoe sketch.

  13. 13
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    Shit, I don’t know how I survived my childhood unmolested as I was both a Catholic and a Boy Scout. That’s like being a cheeseburger positioned between a homeless camp and the poor part of town.

    Erick, Son of Erick, has a post up about how, as an attorney, he used to represent indigent people in criminal court. His story is about how one of his last clients died ten years ago and it was her mental health issues and drug abuse that led to her death. Then he follows that up with how everyone is looking at guns as a problem in the mass killings and that they are once again ignoring the real issue, mental health. As an article it’s pretty weak and clear that Erick is abusing the memory of this woman’s death to divert attention from any talk of new gun regulations. What caught my eye was something Erick stated in his post that was completely irrelevant to the ‘story’ he is telling:

    This is how Erick opened his story:

    For five and a half years I was an indigent criminal defense attorney as one area of my law practice.
    I never once represented an innocent person. They were all guilty. I never had a criminal trial. They were all willing to take deals. Most of them were black men between the ages of 18 and 35 and their crimes most often involved drugs.

    Erick then proceeds to tell his story about the white woman with mental health and drug issues, wrapping it up with:

    The urge to “just do something” may seem easier when applied to guns, but focusing on mental health is a far better focus.
    My last criminal client was a statistic. Her entered the system because of crime. Only then were her mental issues addressed. No person should be just a statistic. And some people do need help from society. We should not let the gun debate, yet again, get this issue ignored.

    It’s kind of weird to see him start out about his representing a lot of poor black people in criminal court and how none of them were innocent of their charges and then he rambles off into a story about a white woman who died from drug abuse that mental health issues made worse for her. Then he wraps that up with a call for helping people with mental health issues and blaming those talking about doing something about the gun problem for ignoring the real issue, mental health.

    Nowhere in Erick’s story is anything explaining his opening statement that the poor black people he represented were guilty of violating every law that they were charged with. Ignoring that huge Freudian slip, maybe they pleaded guilty to everything they did because Erick was a shitty attorney.

    That and he is a shitty writer.

  14. 14

    Has anyone blamed the gays yet? Oh, wait. The Boy Scouts are anti-gay. Never mind.

  15. 15
    gordon schumway says:

    I haven’t had this much sex since I was a Boy Scout leader!

  16. 16
    arguingwithsignposts says:

    Yeah, WTF Times? Merry Christmas present?

  17. 17
    cathyx says:

    @Odie Hugh Manatee:

    Shit, I don’t know how I survived my childhood unmolested as I was both a Catholic and a Boy Scout. That’s like being a cheeseburger positioned between a homeless camp and the poor part of town.

    It’s a little insulting, isn’t it? Not even perverts wanted you.

  18. 18
    James E Powell says:

    I will never understand why people in institutions dedicated to the welfare of children protect pedophiles. The Catholic Church, Boy Scouts, Penn State, what were they thinking?

  19. 19
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:


    If that’s the case then I’ll gladly take the insult. :)

    More like there were more fertile young minds to go after, safety in numbers and all that. Or is that there were more young minds to fertilize?

  20. 20
    Strontium 90 says:

    OT question: if someone unfriends (defriends?) you on facebook, are you permanently unable to find them again in a search fro new friends? I am trying to figure out if the person in question has completely opted out of facebook entirely or just whacked my as a friend.


  21. 21
    gordon schumway says:

    @James E Powell: Gosh, it’s enough to make one think that maybe those institutions were dedicated to something other than the welfare of children.

  22. 22
    JPL says:

    @Odie Hugh Manatee: Wow.. I’m not going to link to his story but from your description, it appears that he has personal reasons why he thinks mental health is an important issue. Maybe we can collect money for him to see a therapist.

  23. 23
    Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason says:

    @Liberty60: I was a Scout leader in the late 90s and early 2000s and I found the same thing with our Council as yours. The Youth Protection training was rigorous, we were required to take it every year, and if followed, it would be nigh impossible for anything bad to occur.

    IIRC, the Council just sort of shook its head over what National was doing with gay scouts and did its own thing.

  24. 24
    cathyx says:

    @Odie Hugh Manatee: Actually, they prey on children who come off as weak and vulnerable, so that should actually be a complement that they didn’t go for you, if there were perverts in your organizations.

  25. 25
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:


    Any money collected would be wasted if given to him. Probably on a new shotgun.


    Yeah, probably that. I wasn’t vulnerable or weak as a kid, that’s for damned sure.

  26. 26
    askew says:

    OT – I am pissed about Abercrombie’s pick to replace Senator Inouye for so many reasons. I am pissed that he picked a less qualified white man over a more qualified minority woman in a state where whites make up less than 25% of the state’s population. I’m pissed that when I point this out I’m told that race/sex doesn’t matter. I’m pissed that sex/race only matter when a woman or minority gets picked over a white man. Then, it is a scandal. I’m pissed that it seems that all of the latest appointments by Democrats lately have gone to white men – Hawaii Senate, Kerry as SoS, Hagel to SoD, likely Senate replacement for Kerry.

  27. 27
    Bubblegum Tate says:

    Seems like the Scouts should spend less time fainting over possible gay members and scout leaders and start looking into the pedophiles they have known about for decades.

    I’m guessing this will be used as an excuse to keep out possible gay members/leaders.

  28. 28
    Mnemosyne (iPhone) says:


    One question I need answered before I get pissed off is, is this a permanent appointment, or is Hawaii one of those states that requires a special election within X amount of time, so today’s appointee is just a seat warmer?

  29. 29
    BGinCHI says:

    I think the South Park episodes with Big Gay Al effectively ripped the shit out of Scouting and its hypocrisy.

    When those guys are on, they’re on.

    Also, too who is more into Scouts than Mormons?

    No one.

  30. 30
    askew says:

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone):

    It’s an appointment until 2014 and he already announced his intention to run in 2014.

  31. 31
    Mnemosyne (iPhone) says:


    Then I’m happy to join you, especially since apparently the late senator had named the person he wanted to be his successor on his deathbed. Guv is definitely a jackass.

  32. 32
    j says:

    Time to ask “Bishop” Mitt and “Bishop” Crappo what they know about all of this.

    With mutual exaltation of God and country and a shared aim of nurturing “morally straight” men with leadership skills and a service ethic, the Mormons and the Boy Scouts seem made for each other, as entwined as a square knot. And in an unusual partnership dating to 1913, the Mormon Church has embraced scouting wholesale, giving it a central role in preparing male youths for their two-year missionary stints and adulthood as lay priests.

    Virtually every Mormon church, or ward, has a scout troop. Every Mormon boy is automatically enrolled, and the vast majority participate. An exceptional share — three out of four at Troop 1194, here in Cedar Hills — attain the top rank, Eagle.

    Maybe “Tagg” isn’t only a name but a verb. It would be irresponsible not to speculate.

  33. 33
    Bubblegum Tate says:

    @Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason:

    Your stories are encouraging. It’s good to hear that individual chapters can just ignore some of the dumber shit the national hierarchy demands (as I understand some Catholic parishes do, too).

  34. 34

    They could have walked out back, dug a hole in the parking lot and literally buried this. Nice job, and by nice job I mean they suck.

  35. 35
    PurpleGirl says:

    Seems like they could have timed this better for more exposure:

    John, they don’t want more exposure for this story. This was perfect timing for the National office: they hope people are more preoccupies with the holidays, eating, shopping and other stuff.

  36. 36
    Schlemizel says:

    @Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason:

    I was a Scout leader in the mid-90’s through early 00’s and my experience was the same as yours. If the rules were followed as given there would never have been a problem. Obviously the problem is pedophiles may see an advantage in not following the rules and the boys may not catch on.

    The occasional pedophile could appear in any organization, its what they do about it when discovered that is important. Report them to the police, forbid any further contact with the kids and not only is the problem solved but the word on the street is BSA is not a safe hunting ground. Lie, cover up, attack the victims and you not only are making the attacks worse you are sending the message that pedo’s are safe

  37. 37
    Roger Moore says:


    The Boy Scouts kept the files for nearly a century for internal use only, to keep suspected abusers the organization from rejoining getting sued


    More Accurafied. I’m pretty sure the Scouts don’t really care one way or the other about the abusers; they care about the organization. They chose to cover things up because they thought it was the best way of avoiding lawsuits and bad publicity. If they thought they would look better by throwing abusers to the wolves, that’s what they would have done. If we want to end the coverups, we have to change the incentives so that coverups are more painful than openness.

  38. 38
    Raven says:

    The last encounter I had with Boy Scouts was on a tree planting project. I got to shootin the shit with one of their leaders, dude wearing a 82nd Airborne jacket. Fucker tried to tell me Lee Greenwood was Special Forces. Fucking jerk was nothing but a draft dodger. Dumb fuck.

  39. 39
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    Seems like the Scouts should spend less time fainting over possible gay members and scout leaders and start looking into the pedophiles they have known about for decades.

    I’m pretty sure the Scouts believe that it’s the gays that are the pedophiles. In their mind, being gay means wanting to have sex with every boy they come in contact with.

  40. 40
    Liberty60 says:

    @Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason:
    Not surprisingly, the organiation behaved according to the principles and moral vision of the people actually carrying it out, instead of the people writing policy at the top.

    I was also a Catholic youth leader for part of the time.

    It was interesting to see the similarities and differences in the two cultures.

    They were similar in that the front line people- meaning the Scoutmasters, and lay faithful- were pretty much like anybody else in Southern California who were relaxed towards gays, protective of their children, and not Calvinistic in their piety.

    They were different in that I did notice the brittleness of the clergy. When you got close, as in hanging out with these people off hours several times a week, you heard the rumors, the sense of a pervading silence and aversion to open discussion of matters sexual.

    In the culture I knew, the Big Secret was that many of the clergy were gay; I never heard anything darker than that, but ended up pitying them for their unwillingness to confront or even acknowledge their sexuality on honest terms. One priest was assigned by the Archbishop to be the outreach to the gay community, but ironically, he and his mission were shunned and scorned more by a loud subsection of laity than the Church hierarchy.

    When the scandals began pouring out, I recognized some of the names and honestly grieved. Not protesting their innocence, but grieved at the awful senseless unnecessary waste of it all.

    I honestly believe that a good portion of the pedophiles became that way out of the structural unwillingness to deal honestly with sexuality and marriage.

    I ended up leaving the Church, for these and other reasons. It isn’t capable of carrying out its core mission, that of speaking truth on human nature.

  41. 41
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:


    Speaking of the perfect fit between churches and organizations for little boys…

    from the Washington Times.

    Say no more.

  42. 42
    Supernumerary Charioteer says:

    @Odie Hugh Manatee: The comments there are great. “Look at how compassionate we are! We want mental health funding more badly than those filthy hypocritical latte-chugging gun-stealing libs!”

    “… but not from the federal government. State governments all the way! TENTH AMENDMENT TENTH AMENDMENT TENTH AMENDMENT”

    “Funding? Uh… there’s got to be some kind of waste we can cut! Yeah! Not going to look into it, but yeah!”

  43. 43
    ThatLeftTurnInABQ says:

    One thing to be said in favor of the Boys Scouts is that they harbor more than a few liberal values underneath the Edwardian Era Godbothering and para-military uniforms and rank system. Such as a communitarian ethos, a commitment to performing public service projects, environmentalism, and a requirement that scouts learn some basic civics (your government, how does it work?), increasingly so as they advance in rank. And none of this The Earth is only 6000 years old nonsense. If Liberals are looking for a putatively Conservative institution to join and work within to move them our direction on the cultural front, moving the Overton Campfire leftward so to speak, this is a much more practical project than doing the same thing to say the NRA, in my opinion. Having said that, in some councils Mormons are majority of the people involved in Scouting, so that’s going to be a tough slog.

  44. 44
    Uncle Ebeneezer says:

    @Southern Beale: And don’t forget atheists.

  45. 45
    Mnemosyne (iPhone) says:

    @Odie Hugh Manatee:

    I’m stuck watching Fox News with my ailing dad and Laura Ingraham is whining about gun owners’ names being published. Gosh, Laura, did you get this upset when people published the names of abortion doctors?

  46. 46
    Baud says:

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone):

    You are a wonderful child.

  47. 47
    Narcissus says:

    There is literally no reason I can think of to release this on Christmas except to kill it.

  48. 48
    NotMax says:


    Unsure if you intended it that way, but –

    CYA, indeed.

    As for the rank of Tenderfoot, well, the snark practically writes itself.

  49. 49
    Mnemosyne says:


    He is what he is. It’s getting close to bedtime for them (aka 7:00 pm) so I headed back to the hotel. Tomorrow, haircuts!

  50. 50
    Raven says:

    tap tap

  51. 51
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    @Supernumerary Charioteer:

    Yeah, the new found compassion on the right for people with mental health issues sure is heartwarming…

    or it would be if it wasn’t feigned. If the issue of government funding for mental health were to have arisen without the shooting prompting it, everyone knows that Republicans would be railing against funding it, calling it another grab of power by the government. That and it would fuel all kinds of conspiracy theories on the right about how Obummer would abuse it to lock up good conservatives.

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone):

    My sympathies. Putting on my winger hat, I would say that her response would be that the abortion doctors are murderers and conservative gun owners deserve their anonymity.

    That was easy. :(

  52. 52
    LanceThruster says:

    OT but wanted to put them up before I forgot them – from Oliver Stone’s excellent “Untold History of the US”

    “Power always thinks… that it is doing God’s service when it is violating all his laws.” ~ John Adams

    [unabridged 1st part]
    “Power always thinks it has a great soul and vast views beyond the comprehension of the weak.”

    And an architect of the cold war from 1948 –
    “We have about 50% of the world’s wealth, but only 6.3% of its population. … In this situation, we cannot fail to be the object of envy and resentment. Our real task in the coming period is to devise a pattern of relationships which will permit us to maintain this position of disparity. … To do so, we will have to dispense with all sentimentality and day-dreaming; and our attention will have to be concentrated everywhere on our immediate national objectives. … We should cease to talk about vague and … unreal objectives such as human rights, the raising of the living standards, and democratization. The day is not far off when we are going to have to deal in straight power concepts. The less we are then hampered by idealistic slogans, the better.”—George F. Kennan, Policy Planning Study 23 (PPS23), Foreign Relations of the United States (FRUS), 1948

  53. 53
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:


    I did see one commenter at Redstate say that it could be funded and handled at the state level; IOW, nothing changes except some buddies in some states get rich from a new (R) state government program designed to fail. They said any needed money could be obtained from the failed existing mental health services in each state.

    Programs that are failing because they are underfunded and have been gutted, but never mind those little details.

  54. 54
    LanceThruster says:


    And for good measure, I’ll throw in Joseph Heller’s observation of Catch-22. “Catch-22 means people have the right to do to you anything that you cannot prevent them from doing to you.”

  55. 55
    geg6 says:

    OT, but the Kennedy Center Honors is a fucking kickass show. Loved the Buddy Guy tribute. Tracey Chapman and Bonnie Raitt and Jeff Beck, all at once? And now Letterman is up. Can’t wait to see the Zep segment.

  56. 56
    burnspbesq says:

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone):

    If Inouye wanted Hanabusa to succeed him, he should have retired in 2008 and endorsed her in the primary.

    Until Abercrombie explains his choice, and until I have more than one person’s unsubstantiated assertion that Hanabusa was the most qualified of the three names listed by the state Dem Central Committee, I’m withholding judgment.

  57. 57
    Raven says:

    Wild ass bowl game.

  58. 58
    Hill Dweller says:

    @geg6: Kid Rock? Really?

  59. 59
  60. 60
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:


    On that note I want to wish John “we got 98% of what we wanted” Boehner a very Merry Cliff Mess!

  61. 61
    mdblanche says:

    @Odie Hugh Manatee: It’s enough to bring a man to tears. Or drive a man to drink. Maybe both.

  62. 62
    Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason says:


    Also, too who is more into Scouts than Mormons?

    The LDS controls Scouting at the National level and they are busy ruining something that was one the best things I had growing up.

  63. 63
    Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason says:

    @LanceThruster: I always loved that definition of Catch-22 because Heller slipped the word “right” into it. Sure, people can do to you anything that you can’t prevent them from doing. Happens all the time. But to tweak it to say they have the right to do anything you can’t stop them from doing …

    Well that’s some Catch, that Catch-22.

  64. 64
    opie_jeanne says:

    Any of the front pagers see this thing from the Pew Research Center?

    “According to a study from the Pew Research Center, African-Americans saw a high voter participation rate this year: while that demographic makes up 12 percent of the “eligible electorate,” African-Americans accounted for 13 percent of the total votes, and could have outpaced the turnout rate of white voters….”

    Read more:

    And of course the data is being misinterpreted by some news services as “more black voters voted than white ones”.

  65. 65
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    @opie_jeanne: “And of course the data is being misinterpreted by some news services as “more black voters voted than white ones”.”

    That’s the first thing I thought of; crazy wingers will think that this is proof that the blahs are committing voter fraud. Anyone who is stupid enough to claim this is a fraud.

    And stupid as fuck.

  66. 66
    LanceThruster says:

    @Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason:

    Thank you for noticing that too. When I saw him say it on the “Great Books” series, I thought ‘right’ doesn’t belong there. But he said it exactly as he meant to.

    Yep, that’s some catch.

  67. 67
    LanceThruster says:

    @Odie Hugh Manatee:

    Merry Cliff Mess!


    He’s got the reverse Midas touch. Everything he touches turns to shite.

    Looks like Boehner had to drop some “presents” down the chimney…if you know what I mean.

  68. 68
    Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason says:

    @LanceThruster: Was your quote from Heller? This is what I remember from the book, it’s a little simpler (via Wikipedia):

    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can’t stop them from doing.

    This is also from Wikipedia, and it’s priceless:

    Yossarian comes to realize that Catch-22 does not actually exist, but because the powers that be claim it does, and the world believes it does, it nevertheless has potent effects. Indeed, because it does not exist, there is no way it can be repealed, undone, overthrown, or denounced.

    Apologies for highjacking the thread.

  69. 69
    Jay in Oregon says:

    @James E Powell:

    I will never understand why people in institutions dedicated to the welfare of children protect pedophiles. The Catholic Church, Boy Scouts, Penn State, what were they thinking?

    They were thinking that the reputation of the organization was more important than the welfare of the kids, and that they could somehow keep it under wraps forever. The fact that it protects the pedophile is incidental.

    It’s like how many cons involve the mark doing (or at least attempting) something illegal or potentially humiliating; their shame, or desire to avoid criminal charges, keeps the sucker from going to the cops.

  70. 70
    LanceThruster says:

    @Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason: I was so struck by the way he phrased it in the book special interview, I forgot or didn’t realize how he spelled it out in the book itself.

    Thanks for the “doesn’t exist” reminder, too.

  71. 71
    onlymike says:

    @JPL: I do as well – i didn’t vote for but he walked on water compared to W. Of course just about anyone looks good compared to W.

  72. 72
    onlymike says:

    @Bubblegum Tate: Exactly.
    They don’t see any distinction between being gay and being a pedophile.

  73. 73
    Lojasmo says:

    @Strontium 90:
    They either blocked you, or deleted their own account. a defriending does not eliminate them from your sight.

  74. 74
    Lojasmo says:

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone):

    Schats got the most votes. I understand where you’re coming from, but it was a pretty “democratic” appointment.

  75. 75
    xian says:

    @opie_jeanne: numbers, how the fuck do they work?

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