But I used a little too much force

I guess the Beowulf bit wasn’t a give away but posting the full email was hubris:

Dear Andrew and Co.,

I’m a gun safety consultant, currently working with the Danish
government. While it’s easy to mock Megan McArdle for suggesting
shooter rushing, there is actually a long tradition of shooter rushing
in many of the Nordic countries, and these countries have
traditionally had among the lowest rates of mass shootings (Anders
Behring Breivik being a true outlier) of any western countries. It’s
counterintuitive, but most shooters “freeze” when run at by a group,
even a group of children,

Believe it or not, there is even a passage in Beowulf involving
“shooter rushing”, albeit with spears. Hengest briefly loses his mind
after drinking tainted water and is subdued by a group of unarmed men
who run at him.

Douglas Jones

Copenhagen

Daily Dish earlier today:

 

Another:

I’m a gun safety consultant currently working with the Danish government.  While it’s easy to mock McArdle for suggesting shooter rushing, there is actually a long tradition of shooter rushing in many of the Nordic countries, and these countries have traditionally had among the lowest rates of mass shootings (Anders Behring Breivik being a true outlier) of any western countries.  It’s counterintuitive, but most shooters “freeze” when run at by a group, even a group of children.

The above email appears to have been a Balloon Juice blogger trolling the Dish with false information.

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165 replies
  1. 1
    shortstop says:

    Snort! One of my undergrad classmates was a truly insane guy named Douglas Jones who loved loved LOVED guns. For a second, I thought it was legitimately he advising the Danish government on gun safety.

  2. 2

    Someone around here is a rat. *eyes everyone suspiciously*

    keep on trollin on, Doug. I laughed for quite a bit at Sully’s expense.

  3. 3
    Violet says:

    Just posted about this below. The win is strong with this one. Can’t believe the Beowulf comment wasn’t a giveaway.

  4. 4
    trollhattan says:

    Heh-heh, first WaPo, now Sullyville. [golf clap]

    Now, sir, about Bobo’s forthcoming “Humility” college class, if you please!

  5. 5
    Rafer Janders says:

    I saw that on Sullivan’s site earlier today, and couldn’t believe he fell for it.

  6. 6
    Tractarian says:

    Well done.

    Well done indeed.

  7. 7

    As I posted downstairs Weigel on that Charlotte Allen piece

    Surely “12-year old husky boys” was the moment we reached peak derp. We can derp no derpier.

    Peak Wingnut!

  8. 8
    Elizabelle says:

    Coffee, meet screen.

    Glad to see this, had heard it was a beaut.

    there is actually a long tradition of shooter rushing in many of the Nordic countries

    It’s counterintuitive, but most shooters “freeze” when run at by a group, even a group of children,

    Hello?

  9. 9
    trollhattan says:

    @shortstop:
    On LGM some winger commenter was trolling Nazi concentration camp prisoners “successfully” rushing the guards as supporting McMegan’s “well reasoned” post. I kid you fucking not.

  10. 10
    gbear says:

    Those nasty, trolling, misinformation-dispensing Balloon Juice bloggers!

    VICTORY!!

  11. 11
    Elizabelle says:

    @trollhattan:

    Yeah. You could raise funds from us for your tuition in “Humility 101.”

  12. 12
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    So, fuckwit admits he was trolled.

    How very, very brilliant of him. Hook, line, and sinker.

    What an imbezel. What an ultramaroon.

  13. 13
    Forum Transmitted Disease says:

    Saw it before Sully figured it out, I LOLed hard.

    The man is such a fucking chump. Never seen a man more in love with his own intelligence, who had so little of it to love.

  14. 14
    Soonergrunt says:

    At least he (or his minions) acknowledged having been trolled, and didn’t just disappear it.

    Baby steps, Doug. Baby steps.

  15. 15
    Arclite says:

    The Dish crew knows its way around BJ, as they’ve referenced the site several times in the past. I’m surprised that they didn’t pick up on “Douglas Jones.”

    Hilarious, but hard to detect given that rushing the shooter is actually a military technique in an ambush. The Nordic countries but was a bit of a giveaway for sure.

    Kudos, Doug.

  16. 16
    chrismealy says:

    I love it. Keep trolling.

  17. 17

    Holy shit, you win all the internets.

  18. 18
    Elizabelle says:

    I guess now it can be

    Blogs we monitor and mock, and troll, as needed

  19. 19

    OT but related: Our good friend Dr. Tom Levenson is engaged in some twitter twattering with Blenderella right now. My breath, it is bated, waiting for the fisking.

  20. 20
    Amir Khalid says:

    You, DougJ, are deliciously wicked.

  21. 21
    Patricia Kayden says:

    “there is actually a long tradition of shooter rushing
    in many of the Nordic countries”

    Wouldn’t the giveaway be that there are very few incidents of shootings in Nordic countries? How many mass shootings have there been in Scandinavian countries?

  22. 22
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    Could someone rescue me from moderation hell? I seem to have used a naughty word, although I’m damned if I can figure out why. Perhaps I’ve stumbled on a brand name for some male enhancement device, other than “Bushmaster” of course…

  23. 23
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    Could someone rescue me from moderation hell? I seem to have used a naughty word, although I’m damned if I can figure out why. Perhaps I’ve stumbled on a brand name for some male enhancement device, other than “Bushmaster” of course…

  24. 24
    Joel says:

    Bragging about it was hubris. If you didn’t say anything, you would have been the Montresor to Sullivan’s Fortunado. In Pace Requiescat.

  25. 25
    khead says:

    It’s called a “search engine”. You can copy some of the words and paste them in – and then the google machine will tell you if it’s been posted elsewhere! Crazy, I know.

    Doug – If it’s not too much trouble, I would like you to troll a WaPo chat to make fun of this crap from Sally Jenkins.

  26. 26
    hitchhiker says:

    I think the phrase “shooter rushing” should have been the tipoff. Sounds like a college drinking game.

  27. 27
    Maude says:

    @trollhattan:
    That deserves a fine troll. DougJ is banned from the NYT.
    THere is something wrong that Brooks has a job at all.

  28. 28
    jl says:

    If Western Civilization had not gone soft after the fall of the Rooskies, and had kept the righteous Christian wrathful berserker tradition alive, our elementary schools would not be so feminized, and these shootings could not occur. (Edit: or be ended after only a dozen or so deaths after school children bum rush the crazy person with the machine gun).

    There you go. Everything would be fixed and we could keep our manly ordnance up and running. Or something.

    Seriously, there seems to be a polite convention in the media that we have to tolerate the ravings of lunatics on this topic. Everyday in the media or on the respectable portions of the internets, some maniac is allowed to spout madness about why the only thing that will work for this society to preserve itself is for everyone over 6 months old to be at the ready 24/7 to blow stuff up and people to pieces.

    Are we patronizing them, or did this civilization scheme not work out.

    Someone please explain to me.

  29. 29
    shortstop says:

    @ranchandsyrup: I love you for being one of the 10 people on earth who know it’s “bated breath,” not “baited breath.”

  30. 30
    EconWatcher says:

    DougJ, true artists are never fully appreciated in their own lifetimes, but at least know we understand and love your art here.

  31. 31
    BGinCHI says:

    And Sully would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn’t for you meddling kids!

  32. 32
    Soonergrunt says:

    @Arclite: “rushing the shooter is actually a military technique in an ambush.”
    We precede the act of rushing the shooter by pelting him with fragmentation and smoke grenades. After we’ve dropped straight to the ground. Then we get up, attack directly, shooting at everything that moves as we attempt to sweep across the enemy ambush line.
    That whole “frag the enemy, THEN rush him, WEAPONS BLAZING” is kind of an important bit of details. It’s not remotely like McCardle’s fucked up version of Kindergarden Red Rover.

  33. 33
    DPS says:

    Just going to leave this here for you, Doug.

  34. 34

    @shortstop: I’m a master bater of breath. I loves you to shortstop. You had me at teh comment when you suggested that we start a 4th wave of ska, back when I was a wee lurker.

  35. 35

    I salute you DougJ–I am sitting at my desk but mentally standing, holding up my lighter, grinning

  36. 36
    Raven says:

    @Soonergrunt: No indirect fire from the redlegs?

  37. 37
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Raven:

    I suppose that depends on if you’ve got a radio handy and the details needed to get fire on the position.

    This sounds like a job for the 81mm or four-deuce guys, though, not for the redlegs.

  38. 38
    Culture of Truth says:

    “most shooters “freeze” when run at by a group, even a group of children.”

    That this was purported to be a factual statement was not a giveaway?

  39. 39
    jl says:

    Can we get DougJ in as the next public editor at the NYT? That would be cool. They run one of those schlubs into the ground every year or so, and should be an opening soon.

    DougJ, you can sure get yourself in with a little pre-planned spoofing, I think.

    It would be a brief and glorious run.

  40. 40
    JPL says:

    Doug, I have a dummy email and you can use it anytime… I’d be honored to share with such a pro.

  41. 41
    Valdivia says:

    Doug you are just the master. When I saw that this morning I almost choked on my coffee.

  42. 42
    shortstop says:

    @ranchandsyrup: That was you?! What a fun conversation that was. Did you change your nym?

    @Culture of Truth: Mr. Jones gave Mr. Sullivan several options within that paragraph to exercise a modicum of critical thinking, but it was not to be.

  43. 43
    JPL says:

    Personally, I’d rather teachers grade papers than practice shooting at a range but it appears the repubs are going to push through laws to allow teachers to carry. What about day cares? What about priests and ministers?

  44. 44
    Arclite says:

    @Soonergrunt: Thanks for the explanation, SG. I guess I meant it would have been hard to pick that one out when lots of other people are writing in with similar emails.

  45. 45

    “A blogger at Balloon Juice” is my favorite blogger at Balloon Juice. Congrats.

  46. 46
    The Dangerman says:

    The amazing thing about this McArdle piece of shit is running towards a shooter is EXACTLY opposite of what cops want people to do. If this asshole had spent a few seconds googling, this exactly wrong information wouldn’t be out in our cyberspace. Dipshit.

  47. 47

    @shortstop: started a blawg with my wife and changed the nym to pimp it. I’m a whore.

  48. 48
    jl says:

    Those sissified totalitarian liberal social engineers banned dodge ball from our schools. That’s the problem.

  49. 49
    shortstop says:

    @ranchandsyrup: Cool! Tying together two threads, can Rafer Janders come over and post his sex fantasies there?

  50. 50
    Culture of Truth says:

    I’m surprised no one has suggested “serpentine” yet

  51. 51
    shortstop says:

    @jl: OT, my husband had a truly sadistic high-school gym teacher who had everyone playing dodgeball with half-inflated balls. WTF?

  52. 52
    trollhattan says:

    @Elizabelle:
    My humility-themed fundraiser calendar would be easy-peasy: pictures of me.

    Can’t actually imagine eighteen weeks of Bobo lectures, at least not without being perpetually hammered.

    “C’mom man, tell us again about the Koch brothers!”

  53. 53
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @JPL: What about TAs? What if they are furrin and muslin?

  54. 54
    Culture of Truth says:

    It all started when everyone got a blue ribbon for their “self esteem”

    now we have a generation of wussified kids who expect a pat on the head just for suviving a massacre

  55. 55
    t4toby says:

    Bravo. You won the innerb00bz for the day.

  56. 56

    @shortstop: Who am I (or who is anyone) to say no to that?

    Susan of TX finally chimes in (she’s busy these days) on McMegs. http://agonyin8fits.blogspot.c.....brain.html

  57. 57
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @trollhattan: No wonder he is teaching about humility, he has much to be humble about. Some one said that in an earlier thread this morning.

  58. 58
    taylormattd says:

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

    omg.

    You win the internet, like forever.

  59. 59
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Could someone rescue me from moderation hell? I seem to have used a naughty word, although I’m damned if I can figure out why.

    I’m guessing it was hõøk.

  60. 60
    SatanicPanic says:

    You truly are the Michael Jordan of trolling DougJ.

  61. 61
    jl says:

    @shortstop:

    Damn strait. Me too. I will rush any half inflated dodge ball you want to throw at me.

    Anybody want a great reckoning in a little room, I’m your man. Yep sir. I will bravely volunteer kids and teachers to run at crazy people spraying bullets at them. Toughens you up for life.

    Can I haz Fox expert interview now? I am survivor of survivor style dodge ball, and I say, we just need tougher people other than me ready to sacrifice themselves.

  62. 62
    Soonergrunt says:

    @Raven: The drill I described is for close ambush, which is considered hand grenade range. The drill for far ambush, which is considered small arms range is for the element in the kill zone to lay down a base of fire while the adjacent elements maneuver on the enemy force and execute a close assault from his flank.
    Either one almost always occurs when the enemy initiates their ambush and in both cases, the ranges are well inside danger close range for artillery, which is 600 meters for 105mm if memory serves. I’ve called light (60mm) mortar, (danger close range is 50 meters) on a far ambush, but that’s really hard to co-ordinate the indirect element to lift/shift fire as the assault element approaches the enemy line on the fly. Sometimes you can use artillery or mortars on the far side of the enemy to prevent his escape once you’ve routed him.

    On the other hand, when Infantry plan the mission in the first place, they may schedule artillery to walk in front of them, or schedule fire on call on TRPs as you move.

  63. 63
    taylormattd says:

    @DPS: /facepalm

  64. 64
    JPL says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: Mentioned it earlier but Congress needs to take down the metal detectors. We should be allowed to carry guns into Congress because it is funded with tax payer money but only cowards conceal their weapons. John Wayne didn’t conceal his weapon.
    Rob McLaughlin didn’t hide his gun. (I loved My Friend Flicka by the way.) Concealed weapons are for cowards.

  65. 65
    Scamp Dog says:

    Yeah, that bit about “shooter rushing with spears” doesn’t match the version of Beowulf that I read. I thought Sully would have caught that, aren’t those Oxford boys supposed to read it in the Old English? At any rate, well done!

  66. 66
    Schlemizel says:

    Dougie – you are my hero!

    The only surprise is that he didn’t double down on how you were right anyway

  67. 67
    schrodinger's cat says:

    I think we can replace all the bloggers on the Daily Bust with monkeys typing random stuff on keyboards.

  68. 68
    Calouste says:

    Sullivan forget to add: “and I am so completely lacking in contact with reality, common sense and even the slightest amount of critical thinking that I fell for it, even though the email contained more warning signs than a nuclear power plant.”

    Sullivan wouldn’t recognize a trolling email if it painted itself purple and danced naked on top of a harpsichord, singing “Trolling Emails are Here Again!”

  69. 69
    jl says:

    @Culture of Truth:

    Yeah ‘self esteem’. That’s right. These kids today are too damn important to sacrifice themselves at mass shootings so big shot all Americans can sit around with loaded semi automatic weapons sitting around the house fantasizing about how they will shoot the place up if some totalitarian local gummint puts a tyrannical sugar tax on their big gulps.

    Kids are spoiled rotten these days. Only think of themselves, never of fantastical middle age would be lunatics with guns, and THEIR rights.

  70. 70
    Soonergrunt says:

    @Arclite: No problem. I just didn’t want anyone to get the idea for one moment that this was a remotely viable option, especially for small children.
    We were always taught that in a close ambush, you toss frags and smoke (or a rock if that’s all you’ve got) and rush because you were most likely going to be killed or wounded either way and this way had a slightly better chance of survival.
    We would practice it as a drill over and over and over again until it became an instinctive reaction.

  71. 71
    👽 Martin says:

    @Scamp Dog:

    I thought Sully would have caught that, aren’t those Oxford boys supposed to read it in the Old English? At any rate, well done!

    They only read it if Oakeshott or Burke did the translation.

  72. 72
    gogol's wife says:

    @jl:

    Oh, what a fabulous idea!

  73. 73
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @Calouste: I don’t think he does the lowly job of going through emails, must be one of his minions. While he writes his searing insights about New York Shitty and views from the winder and the elebentieth post bout smoking pot makes you the awesome.

  74. 74
  75. 75
    Soonergrunt says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: cleared.

  76. 76
    Jerzy Russian says:

    @Soonergrunt:

    The drill I described is for close ambush, which is considered hand grenade range. The drill for far ambush, which is considered small arms range is for the element in the kill zone to lay down a base of fire while the adjacent elements maneuver on the enemy force and execute a close assault from his flank.
    Either one almost always occurs when the enemy initiates their ambush and in both cases, the ranges are well inside danger close range for artillery, which is 600 meters for 105mm if memory serves. I’ve called light (60mm) mortar, (danger close range is 50 meters) on a far ambush, but that’s really hard to co-ordinate the indirect element to lift/shift fire as the assault element approaches the enemy line on the fly. Sometimes you can use artillery or mortars on the far side of the enemy to prevent his escape once you’ve routed him.

    This is getting way too complicated for first graders to execute.

  77. 77
    Soonergrunt says:

    @JPL: My sister is a teacher in Moore, OK. She said she’ll retire the moment that bill becomes law and open a small homeschool for my daughter and her son.

  78. 78
    Soonergrunt says:

    @JPL: My sister is a teacher in Moore, OK. She said she’ll retire the moment that bill becomes law and open a small homeschool for my daughter and her son.

  79. 79
    jl says:

    Actually it’s not Beowulf, its the Battle of Maldon. True story!

    So then did Aethelgar’s CHILD enbolden them all,
    Godric to battle. Often he sent forth spears,
    deadly shaft sped away onto the Vikings;
    thus he on this people went out in front of battle,
    cutting down and smiting, until he too on the battlefield
    perished.

    (emphasis added)

    The lost text, which I happen to know, goes on to say how they threw all the fat kids on top of the Vikings and crushed them, and beat them that way. A liberal conspiracy has covered up the truth. I will be on an expert panel tonight on however calls me first to discuss the policy implications.

  80. 80

    That is hilarious. Balloon Juice blogger or commenter?

    there is actually a long tradition of shooter rushing
    in many of the Nordic countries, and these countries have
    traditionally had among the lowest rates of mass shootings

    I’m sure that’s the reason, the tradition of “shooter rushing.” Not, you know, their strict gun control policies.

    God I”m so sick of this shit. I’m just waiting for someone — it will probably be Jon Stewart but God I wish someone in the “real” media would do this — would just tell the right wing to STFU already. I mean God, today we have the NRO running a column saying Newtown happened because there were too many women leading the school, the place was “feminized.” And Sen. Lamar Alexander blames violent video games and liberal Hollywood. And others have blamed abortion and Hucksterbee blames no God in schools and on and on and on.

    IT’S THE GUNS, STUPID.

  81. 81
    JPL says:

    @Soonergrunt: I met someone while checking out groceries who home schooled. Because I’m not shy, I asked how did you make sure they got appropriate socializing. She said it was hard. I don’t blame you though and if I had younger children, I’d pull them out of GA schools.

  82. 82
    David in NY says:

    I vaguely see the artistry in that work of trollery, but I’m not sure that Sullivan or anybody else is really getting the point. In fact, I’m not sure I get the point.

    (So hit me, go ahead.)

  83. 83
    JPL says:

    Concealed Weapons Laws are for wusses. Ask John Wayne…
    If I’m shopping at Macy’s, I want to know who is carrying so I have the freedom to leave.

  84. 84
    Culture of Truth says:

    This is getting way too complicated for first graders to execute.

    The New York Jets, also.

  85. 85
    Soonergrunt says:

    @Jerzy Russian: well, kids today are pretty smart, but the real problem is logistics. If a Kindergartener weighs 60 pounds, then once you’ve issued the body armor, M-4 carbine, 4 frag grenades, helmet, night vision, water, ammo, and sundries, you’ve doubled his weight, and you’re seriously slowing down his ability to maneuver in the kill zone.
    It’s a leadership challenge, surely.

  86. 86

    I’m in comment moderation. I have no clue why, I didn’t use any embargoed words. Let me try reposting:

    That is hilarious. Balloon Juice blogger or commenter?

    there is actually a long tradition of shooter rushing in many of the Nordic countries, and these countries have traditionally had among the lowest rates of mass shootings

    I’m sure that’s the reason, the tradition of “shooter rushing.” Not, you know, their strict gun control policies.

    God I”m so sick of this shit. I’m just waiting for someone — it will probably be Jon Stewart but God I wish someone in the “real” media would do this — to just tell the right wing to STFU already. I mean God, today we have the NRO running a column saying Newtown happened because there were too many women leading the school, the place was “feminized.” And TN’s. Lamar Alexander blames violent video games and liberal Hollywood. And others blame abortion and Hucksterbee blames no God in schools and on and on and on.

    IT’S THE GUNS, STUPID.

  87. 87
    jl says:

    @Soonergrunt: That is why tactical nuke and death-ray free zones these humanity hating liberals allow to remain our midst are so deadly.

    Edit: and, some daily STEROIDS will get them kids in shape to do their duty, also too.

    Edit: and Southern Beale is right, too many stupid people don’t know how to use a gun on a second’s notice. Sad what our country has come to.

  88. 88
    Culture of Truth says:

    meanwhile Virginia will consider a law requiring teachers to be armed.

  89. 89
    Raven says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: Having been in both Signal and Arty all I can say is shoot, move and communicate!

  90. 90
    trollhattan says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    How in aitch-ee-double-hockeysticks are we supposed to discuss fishing?

  91. 91
    Soonergrunt says:

    @JPL: I really don’t want to do this. I’m hoping that some of the moderate Republicans in the State House band with the few remaining Dems to stop this madness. But I was a marksmanship instructor in the National Guard as one of my additional duties, and I’ll tell you that no teacher has the time to be both a well trained body guard and an effective educator. There’s not enough hours in the day to be both. My daughter isn’t going to be a martyr, literal or figurative, to some winger State Assemblyman’s wet dreams.

  92. 92
    Raven says:

    Off to a little 55th celebration for the princess!

  93. 93
    MikeJ says:

    @jl:

    Those sissified totalitarian liberal social engineers banned dodge ball from our schools.

    If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a bullet.

  94. 94
    trollhattan says:

    @Southern Beale:
    TDS and Colbert are on holiday break, which is kind of frustrating but gives them time to collect the awesomest truffles in the Konservative Godiva box to set before us, come January. They’ll each need four hours, minimum.

  95. 95
    Raven says:

    @MikeJ: You can tune a piano but you can’t tuna fish!

  96. 96
    gogol's wife says:

    @Raven:

    Have a great time!

  97. 97
    Rex Everything says:

    With the social safety net hoisted onto the chopping block, we hear nothing from Balloon Juice except fish-in-barrel shots at McArdle, the NRA, Bork, demented anti-feminists, etc.

    PLEASE: Call your congressperson and urge him/her to oppose any raw deal. http://act.boldprogressives.or.....676.vr8oLa

  98. 98
    Violet says:

    @Jerzy Russian:

    This is getting way too complicated for first graders to execute.

    That’s only because children are coddled. If we’d start teaching our kids when they were mere infants how to take out shooters they’d be prepared for this kind of thing. No more wussy infants. Drop and roll, toddler!

  99. 99
    JPL says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: ot.. If you are around, I always have an interesting crew for xmas eve. We enjoy food, desserts and some of us drink. You are certainly welcome, if you are available and there is even a Colin Powell connection which I’ll explain later.

  100. 100
    pk says:

    Why are there gun ads on this site?

  101. 101
    Violet says:

    @Culture of Truth:

    meanwhile Virginia will consider a law requiring teachers to be armed.

    How many teachers will quit if this becomes law?

    The first time a teacher takes out their own classroom full of students with the gun they’re required to carry, there’s going to be hell to pay.

  102. 102

    For teh love of the FSM, a barbershop discussion over Newtown turns into another shoosting (no one was hurt).
    http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/20.....rd-patron/

  103. 103
    trollhattan says:

    @Violet:
    North Korean toddlers would be perfect, if they weren’t so miniaturized from malnourishment. They’re quire organized. Say, are Kaddafhi’s hawt women bodyguards still looking for work?

  104. 104
    slightly_peeved says:

    it should be noted that the sane approach to tackling a shooter (i.e. when they are reloading) has stopped massacres more often than the concerned private citizen exercising their 2nd amendment rights has. though that’s not hard, given the latter method has never stopped a massacre, ever, AFAIK.

    Given the range of bullshit talked in this area, it’s a prime ground for trolling.

  105. 105
    jl says:

    @Rex Everything:

    The internets are too slow to keep up with Very Serious Person Negotiations. My understanding is that this morning Boehner said ‘take it or leave it’ to deal WH and Senate have already turned down.

    Hello fiscal cliff. Goodbye sanity.

  106. 106
    jl says:

    @ranchandsyrup:

    ” For teh love of the FSM, a barbershop discussion over Newtown turns into another shoosting (no one was hurt).”

    Mayan apocalypse Friday. Coincidence? I think not.

  107. 107
    trollhattan says:

    @ranchandsyrup:
    Tracy Morgan’s not looking so good after 30 Rock ended.

  108. 108
    David in NY says:

    I must say, though, that I think the key phrase in DougJ’s troll was, “While it’s easy to mock Megan McArdle ….”

    Sullivan’s antennae (or whatever people like him have) should have shot up when he saw that.

  109. 109
    Soonergrunt says:

    @Rex Everything: except for all of the pulling of hair, gnashing of teeth, front pagers like Dennis G exhorting commenters to contact their congresscritters, yeah, you’re right, there’s been nothing about it.
    Moron.

  110. 110
    Soonergrunt says:

    @Violet: I guarantee you that somebody is going to have an accidental discharge within the first semester, and then policy will come down requiring the weapons to be kept unloaded in locked drawers.

  111. 111
    👽 Martin says:

    The right has learned nothing from the Cold War.

    What they advocate is logically equivalent to Mutually Assured Destruction. The rationale at the time was that offensively, your opponent will be irrational and the aggressor, but defensively will be sensible. That is, your opponent is eager to destroy you, but unwilling to destroy themselves in the process, and that you are uneager to destroy them, unless you face the prospect of your own destruction. So each party presents overwhelming force to overcome the perceived offensive irrationality of the other, and to provide such force (and present the willingness to use it) as to assure that all parties get destroyed if either party moves. And that mutually assured destruction results in a stalemate.

    It turns out, though, for most of these shootings we’re describing, that’s not the dynamic. These shooters are equally irrational offensively and defensively as committing suicide or suicide by cop is the common end result. You cannot deter them. They will not hesitate in the face of danger as they entered the situation with the full expectation that they would die. Their desired outcome is all parties getting destroyed – you, them, anyone nearby – everyone. They want mutually assured destruction. They’re inviting it.

    But the folks the right wants to arm have a completely different calculus. They not only are uneager to be the aggressor, but destroying all parties is an unacceptable outcome even if they themselves will be killed. If you told the teacher with their shiny new assault rifle that they could stop the shooter, they wouldn’t shoot because they know full well that they’re also likely to hurt or kill some of the kids. They’ll sooner give their own life than to see that outcome – and so that’s what ends up happening. They’ll either plea with the shooter to take them instead, or they’ll try something that isn’t going to result in collateral damage.

    There simply is way to arrange offensive pieces on the board to make this work. This is the tactical equivalent of a queen against a king. The king can never, ever take the queen because it is an almost purely defensive piece, where the queen is a purely offensive one. The only solution is to make sure the queen never gets placed on the board.

  112. 112
    Soonergrunt says:

    @pk: because we are talking about guns, and google adservices isn’t smart enough to read the context.

  113. 113
    David in NY says:

    @Rex Everything:

    Call your congressperson and urge him/her to oppose any raw deal.

    You are plainly just another firebagger out to undermine the President’s 11th dimension chess moves. /notserious

  114. 114

    @trollhattan: Well played trollhattan. that is hilarious.

  115. 115
    dmsilev says:

    @Violet: It worked for the Spartans, right?

  116. 116
    Legalize says:

    Late entry for troll of the year. My vote is for post punk David Broder, though.

  117. 117
    General Stuck says:

    Just made the mistake of surfing some of the liberal blogs and they haven’t changed a bit with the Obama sold us out shit.

    They are stupidest motherfuckers on the internet, bar none. Even stupider than the republicans. And that is embarrassing to say.

  118. 118
    👽 Martin says:

    @ranchandsyrup: I’ll try and translate:

    A patron made the comment that the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School made him want to kill the suspect gun nuts. For unknown reasons, Because every gun nut is a perpetual victim, police say Davis took the comment as a threat and asked, “You want to murder me?”

    Davis then allegedly went to his car, retrieved a pistol and fired three times in the customer’s direction. No one was hurt.

  119. 119
    johnny aquitard says:

    @Soonergrunt:

    She said she’ll retire the moment that bill becomes law and open a small homeschool for my daughter and her son.

    This is exactly what the republicans want. Do not doubt for a moment they are using this tradegy to both create more fear and to undermine public schools and teachers unions.

    Their ‘guns everywhere, all the time’ strategy is paying off. They put enough guns into as many peoples’ hands as they can without restriction, and this is what we get.

    School massacres are a feature not a bug, they advance the GOP agenda of privatization, union busting, homeschooling, and christian fundamentalism.

    And I guarantee you when they get their privatization scheme in place, the fight over teaching creationism vs science in schools will be over. Their push for teaching creationism garners a great deal of opposition because it is public school science curriculum and public institutions they are trying to insert their religion into. They will get to do what they want with a privatized system. On what grounds do parents have to oppose mixing religion and private business?

  120. 120
    Peregrinus says:

    OT, but the right wing is trying to find a new scapegoat to distract from the losing issue on gun control.

    tl;dr version — Wingnuts are trying to get Erik Loomis, who is an untenured professor at University of Rhode Island, fired because he said he wanted Wayne LaPierre’s head on a stick. Our Lady of Perpetual Outrage deployed her armies, Instapundit fired off some sneers, and even Colonel Mustard’s gotten in on it.

    I’m going to write their administrators in a bit, and if any of you are academics, your support would be fantastic. If they don’t get him fired, they’ll likely keep using this as a smokescreen wherever they can so they don’t have to fess up to their own bullshit.

  121. 121
    jl says:

    @Soonergrunt: I haven’t seen any gun ads on my screen at all. My second amendment rights have been violated by this blog’s ad placement algorithm.

  122. 122
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Rex Everything:

    There’s been a specific thread on it for the last three days, plus several of the open threads (including the Robert Bork one) have turned into threads about it.

    Maybe you need to take a look at what’s actually been posted before complaining that your pet topic hasn’t been posted about.

  123. 123
    Violet says:

    @Soonergrunt: Yep, I can see that happening. I hope when it does, that a student isn’t injured or killed and only a wall is harmed.

    Even if they require the guns to be locked in a drawer, at some point the kids are going to figure out how to unlock that drawer. Will the teacher be required to carry the gun when not in the classroom? Say, when headed to the bathroom or lunch? Will the gun be loaded or unloaded at that time? If the teacher leaves the gun locked up and the kids in the classroom, what’s to stop an enterprising student from breaking into the drawer/cabinet and taking the gun?

  124. 124
    BGinCHI says:

    Anybody else see this??

    http://www.nbcwashington.com/n.....72411.html

    Holy fucking crazy.

    What is wrong with these people?

  125. 125
    Rex Everything says:

    @Soonergrunt:

    Today’s posts consist of: Doug’s trolling adventures, a National Review antifeminist, a gun nut conspiracy theory, an Army sergeant’s murder trial, Bork’s death, a 6th grade gun incident, the NRA, and a photo of a walrus. Nothing from Dennis since his admirable Walmart column yesterday. I don’t know about any hair pulling or teeth gnashing. But there are no columns currently on the front page, by front pagers, regarding the budget negotiations.

    PLEASE: Call your congressperson and urge him/her to oppose any raw deal. http://act.boldprogressives.or.....676.vr8oLa

    Oh, and I almost forgot: Soonergrunt has poop in his pants.

  126. 126
    jl says:

    @👽 Martin:

    ” The right has learned nothing from the Cold War. ”

    I think the way the Cold War turned out may have been profoundly disappointing to the reactionaries. No KABOOM!. What is victory without that? And they are acting out.

    That is my theory, never argued in such detail or with such care before, that popped into my head a minute or so ago.

  127. 127
    👽 Martin says:

    @Peregrinus:

    tl;dr version — Wingnuts are trying to get Erik Loomis, who is an untenured professor at University of Rhode Island, fired because he said he wanted Wayne LaPierre’s head on a stick.

    So, because someone hurt their fee-fees, the wingnuts decide to go and provide the most ideal justification possible for keeping the tenure system installed as widely as possible.

    What a bunch of fucking retards.

  128. 128
    jl says:

    @Rex Everything:

    ” Oh, and I almost forgot: Soonergrunt has poop in his pants. ”

    Thanks for the info. At least that part of your comment is new and interesting.

    Sooner… ? Better go check something.

  129. 129
    Peregrinus says:

    @Martin:

    Essentially.

    When I write the URI people, I’ll be writing from the perspective of a dude who wants to be on a college faculty one day and would like to know that my administration won’t just hang me out to dry the moment some rightwing pendejo sends me a couple death threats.

  130. 130
    Rex Everything says:

    @Mnemosyne: Today’s posts consist of: Doug’s trolling adventures, a National Review antifeminist, a gun nut conspiracy theory, an Army sergeant’s murder trial, Bork’s death, a 6th grade gun incident, the NRA, and a photo of a walrus. I don’t know about what’s been said in the comments. But there are no columns currently on the front page, by front pagers, regarding the budget negotiations.

    PLEASE: Call your congressperson and urge him/her to oppose any raw deal. http://act.boldprogressives.or.....676.vr8oLa

    P.S. Mnemosyne has no friends and he’s dumb.

  131. 131
    👽 Martin says:

    @Rex Everything:

    PLEASE: Call your congressperson and urge him/her to oppose any raw deal. http://act.boldprogressives.or…..676.vr8oLa

    Especially that DINO Nancy Pelosi:

    Though Chained CPI would reduce lifetime benefits relative to the current cost of living adjustment formula, Pelosi said she does not consider it a benefit cut.

    “No, I don’t,” consider it a benefit cut, she said. “I consider it a strengthening of Social Security.”

    Pelosi sold us out again!

  132. 132
    Alien Radio says:

    I’m dumbstruck by the beauty of this trolling effort, the brazeness, the titillating bait, the bidirectional cutting edge. While not giving us anything as sumptuous as Post-Punk David Broder, “I’m a gun safety consultant working with X” is Oh, Exploitable!

    you are an artist and a master sir. This should be in a gallery.

  133. 133
    Rex Everything says:

    @David in NY: *applause* Nailed it.

  134. 134
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @👽 Martin: And the local teevee news, too dumb to know what “metaphor” means, just mentioned this story and said that he wrote a “threatening” tweet, then went on about some other Newtown/gun stuff, and ended the segment by posting URI’s craven response.

  135. 135
    Rex Everything says:

    @👽 Martin: Indeed. It won’t hurt to give Nancy a ring. http://act.boldprogressives.or.....i&t=3

  136. 136
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Rex Everything:

    I don’t know about what’s been said in the comments.

    And that’s why you look like an idiot right now.

    P.S. Mnemosyne has no friends and he’s dumb.

    Dude, if you’re going to insult me, at least get my gender right.

  137. 137
    Peregrinus says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    You in URI territory, then?

    But yeah, it seems Loomis got actual death threats over this. Given recent events, I feel like most official media that reports on this will try to be as bland as humanly possible so they don’t invite that shit on them.

    That’s the great thing – they’re pissed at him for threatening LaPierre but they’re perfectly okay with threatening him.

  138. 138
    JenJen says:

    Oh, DougJ. I love you so, you merry prankster!

  139. 139
    Rex Everything says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    In my personal hierarchy of priorities, promoting civic activity of even the mildest sort is more important than worrying about looking like an idiot.

    With that in mind: PLEASE: Call your congressperson and urge him/her to oppose any raw deal. http://act.boldprogressives.or.....676.vr8oLa

    Also—Mnemosyne picks her nose, eating the viscid bounty therefrom.

  140. 140
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Soonergrunt:

    On the other hand, when Infantry plan the mission in the first place, they may schedule artillery to walk in front of them, or schedule fire on call on TRPs as you move.

    Planning in advance like that is for losers and wimps, according to Feldmarschal von Rumsfailed.

  141. 141
    batgirl says:

    @JPL: Not only Congress. All lawyers and watchers should be allowed to conceal carry in the United States Supreme Court.

  142. 142
    Rex Everything says:

    Corey Robin has a good post up on Loomis, btw. With links on substantial ways to support him in his fight to retain his livelihood. http://coreyrobin.com/2012/12/.....ik-loomis/

    (Have to say I find it amusing, and telling, that no one has been accused of promoting a “pet topic” re the Loomis thing. Eric Loomis’s career is of universal concern to all liberals but the survival of the New Deal is, per Mnemosyne, my pet topic.)

  143. 143
    YellowJournalism says:

    Begin the slow movie clapping now.

  144. 144
    Violet says:

    @Rex Everything:

    Oh, and I almost forgot: Soonergrunt has poop in his pants.

    @Rex Everything:

    P.S. Mnemosyne has no friends and he’s dumb.

    @Rex Everything:

    Also—Mnemosyne picks her nose, eating the viscid bounty therefrom.

    Not really sure what your point is with these kinds of comments.

  145. 145
    Gex says:

    @Southern Beale: In a way, they are right. Every move towards progress that removes guns from the streets, frees people from having to pray to someone else’s God at government behest, and treats women as humans makes straight white Christian cavemen so angry they HAVE to shoot places up. Therefore all of those things are to blame.

    Stupid liberals might point at the culture of the shooters being a problem, but we all know it is the victims who are to blame.

  146. 146
    magurakurin says:

    @Jerzy Russian:

    This is getting way too complicated for first graders to execute.

    especially when they don’t have artillery.

    No. Guns. Artillery. Guns like the Turkish guns at Medina. You give us guns, and keep the training.

    Interesting to hear soonergrunt’s descriptions, though. Modern warfare is truly horrifying. America’s backyard militia’s wouldn’t last long about against a truly committed US military. No need for assault rifles. The whole, protect against tyrannical government line, has well and truly left the barn. Probably after 1918, see Bonus Marchers.

  147. 147
    Gex says:

    @pk: Ads are dynamically targeted. Your browsing history and the topics on Balloon Juice influence the ads. The bots can’t tell if we are for or against, just that we are discussing guns.

  148. 148
    👽 Martin says:

    @Rex Everything:

    Eric Loomis’s career is of universal concern to all liberals but the survival of the New Deal is, per Mnemosyne, my pet topic.

    Um. So changing from one measure of inflation to a more accurate measure of inflation on cost of living threatens ‘the survival of the New Deal’?

    Seriously? I can understand being concerned by it, but holy shit man. Perspective. You lost it.

  149. 149
    Rex Everything says:

    @Violet:

    Not really sure what your point is with these kinds of comments.

    Soonergrunt called me a moron; Mnemosyne called me a pet-topic monger; I was responding in like spirit and with equal intelligence. (I insulted Mnemosyne twice because she requested that I get her gender right when insulting her.)

  150. 150
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    DougJ, Professor of Trolling and Spoofing, strikes again! Congrats on bagging and tagging a big one, just be sure to get it stuffed and mounted soon so you can hang it in a prominent place. :)

    @Jerzy Russian:

    Here’s the translation for kids:

    The drill I described is for close ambush, which is considered hand grenade range. The drill for far ambush, which is considered small arms range is for the element in the kill zone to lay down a base of fire using objects like sack lunches, erasers, pens, pencils, compass, protractor and such while the adjacent elements in the next classroom maneuver on the enemy force and execute a close assault from his flank using coats, lunch boxes, desks, chairs and their own bodies.

  151. 151
    John O says:

    This debate is so depressing it’s hard to believe at Christmas time.

    MMac has written the dumbest single thing on the internets, ever. Every fucking 3rd grader on the planet has figured out overwhelming “collective” action is going to beat a single…”idea”…the whole “collective is better than the individual” irony apparently lost on McMeg.

    She is everything I hate in a person of privilege.

    PW protect the guns. Mark and register the ammo. No, we can’t stop all this shit no matter what we do, but we sure as hell can figure out who did what. Since we’re going to enter an era of circular firing squads for a while, I suggest that an ounce of proof is worth a pound of speculation, though it (speculation) would be irresponsible of me not to do.

  152. 152
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Violet: it’s basically the standard student council election strategy: SEX! Now that I have your attention… Only this time it’s BOOGER POO! Now that I have your attention…

  153. 153
    Rex Everything says:

    @👽 Martin:

    a more accurate measure of inflation on cost of living

    ! It’s a cut to Social Security benefits. “More accurate,” my ass.

    If I’ve lost perspective, I’m in pretty good company. I’m an idiot like Paul Krugman. Ow.

  154. 154
  155. 155
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @👽 Martin: Personally, I don’t see why we’re supposed to assume that benefits are always supposed to keep going up at a certain rate and any downward revision of that arc counts as a cataclysmic cut. That said, this sounds like a solution in search of a problem, insofar as tinkering with Social Security has jack squat to do with The Fiscal Cliff.

  156. 156
    shortstop says:

    Do the usual suspects REALLY have to fall for every single plodding piece of trollery?

  157. 157
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Rex Everything: it’s a cut to future benefits compared to where they would be if they continued on with the current adjustment method. We already know that doing nothing means a 30% cut in benefits at some point, and this prevents that from happening, presumably. Is it a cut to future benefits relative to now? I doubt that’s even mathematically possible, but I haven’t heard that one way or the other, but I’ve been trying to avoid the news for obvious reasons lately.

  158. 158
    SamR says:

    Where’s the email section where you praise Sully as a postpunk David Broder?

  159. 159
    Rex Everything says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    it’s a cut to future benefits compared to where they would be if they continued on with the current adjustment method.

    Yes. Exactly. It’s a cut to benefits. There’s no confusion about that anywhere.

    doing nothing means a 30% cut in benefits at some point

    What are you talking about?

  160. 160
    Ruckus says:

    @Violet:
    7 yr olds don’t normally have a point to their ranting. Mostly it’s just a tantrum for attention.

  161. 161
    Jerzy Russian says:

    @Odie Hugh Manatee: Now that was funny. It is also very sad that this is even being discussed.

  162. 162
    Jerzy Russian says:

    @Soonergrunt:

    It’s a leadership challenge, surely.

    Teachers will have to choose the hall monitors carefully, to be sure.

  163. 163
    Soonergrunt says:

    @jl: Well, that’s me caught.

  164. 164
    slag says:

    You’d think that they might learn something from these instances. But apparently, a little introspection is a bit too much to ask for from our Villagers.

  165. 165
    An noise mouse says:

    @Violet:

    The poster is trying to make a humorous point about the lack of maturity of Soonergrunt et al, and looking pretty childish in the act thereof.

    But they are right about a phoney terrible deal on the Hill. I don’t think Pelosi is stabbing anyone in the back, just trying to nudge the other side towards a deal the President can live with.

    But I’m not a professional political scientist like so many posers posters here…

    edit to look more mature, in addition to my white beard… har ;-)

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