White on rice

What do I know, I’m just a hack blogger who drinks too much and falls in love with girls? But I doubt this would have happend if Susan Rice was an old white guy. Josh Marshall:

I have to say I find this disappointing. I didn’t come into this with any particular feeling that Susan Rice needed to be Secretary of State. I was even a tad surprised when someone first floated the idea to me a couple months ago. But a totally cooked up smear campaign against Rice seems to have worked. My sense was that the President was personally deeply offended by the attacks on Rice. And yet it worked. I’m curious to find out what really happened.






240 replies
  1. 1
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    The smear campaign worked, in that Rice didn’t want to have to fight the political battles. I was actually kind of discouraged by a statement she made in her statement to Obama for choosing to remove her name: She said the SoS should not be politicized. Well, as much as that might be an ideal, the nominating process is by definition political. She can’t stop that. If she didn’t realize that it would be a political fight, then she’s far more naive about Washington, DC than I was led to believe.

  2. 2
    dmsilev says:

    I think I speak for many when I say “Dear Senator McCain: I hope you spend the rest of your life strapped to a chair with your eyelids held open, forcing you to watch a continual loop of Obama’s first inaugural”:

    “Senator McCain thanks Ambassador Rice for her service to the country and wishes her well. He will continue to seek all of the facts surrounding the attack on or consulate in Benghazi that killed four brave Americans.”

  3. 3
    BGinCHI says:

    Can’t Kerry just remain a Senator while he does the Sec State job?

    As Colbert points out, it’s only a part-time gig anyway.

  4. 4
    dedc79 says:

    dmsilev – I second that wish.

  5. 5
    Corner Stone says:

    Whoever she was, she really fucked you up DougJ.

  6. 6
    👽 Martin says:

    @BGinCHI: Honest to God, the MA legislature should change the Senator law again citing this as evidence. Call it the ‘Maverick Vacant Seat Replacement Act’ and cite the willingness of Republican senators to act like some sentient form of herpes as the need to balance that power at the state level.

  7. 7
    piratedan says:

    “Senator McCain thanks Ambassador Rice for her service to the country and wishes her well. He will continue to seek all of the facts surrounding the attack on or consulate in Benghazi that killed four brave Americans.”

    Well then lets all chip in for an airline ticket to Benghazi so the the sonofabitch can go there and conduct interviews in the street to find out what really happened.

    America First, my ass you bitter old fuck.

  8. 8
    The Dangerman says:

    @dmsilev:

    …will continue to seek all of the facts surrounding the attack on or consulate in Benghazi that killed four brave Americans.

    Therein lies the answer; we’ve learned all about Benghazi we are going to learn…

    …but there is probably more to the story there (i.e., the CIA activities). I don’t know if confirmation would have exposed those activities, but it is probably best to not go there.

  9. 9
    Hunter Gathers says:

    Huckleberry Closetcase will soon be doing a tour of South Carolina with her resignation taped to his forehead, in order to stave off a primary challenge. The teabaggers threatened to out his candy ass a few years ago (for daring to even entertain a climate bill), and I imagine Rice’s scalp will keep those dogs at bay, at least for a little while.

  10. 10
    Maude says:

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent):
    She worked in the State Department in the 1990s. The type of political rancor going on would be destructive to her job as SoS.
    There’s politics and then there’s a hatchet job. This wasn’t politics. The Republicans wanted to us a confirmation hearing to try to destroy Obama and Rice.

  11. 11
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    The vermin of the Village went along with that because they want to ride the tire swing some more.

    Every last one of them should hang. ESPECIALLY the repugnant lower life form that is Dancin’ Dave.

  12. 12
    DougJ says:

    @Hunter Gathers:

    Is he even that far in the closet?

  13. 13
    Chris says:

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent):

    The smear campaign worked, in that Rice didn’t want to have to fight the political battles.

    That’s my theory too.

    Like I said on the other thread: Congressional hearings are a fucking cesspool, and quite a few public servants who’ve risen high enough in the ranks of their organization choose to retire rather than go through with them precisely because of what we’re seeing. Rice may have decided, after an entire season of being the latest political football in the GOP’s drive, first, to win an election and then, to get even for having lost it, that she’s done with this shit. And I really can’t blame her.

  14. 14
    Maude says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:
    This. For the second time today.

  15. 15
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @piratedan:

    America First, my ass you bitter old fuck.

    Bitter old fuck and dishonorable, buddy fucking to feed his insatiable ambition.

    As I posted before, McCain could have had a legacy of being the conscience of America. He choose instead to be an abject, willing slave to ambition.

    He’s offal. Dispose of him.

  16. 16
    mai naem says:

    Well, if I was a firebagger I would say that Obama CAVED. But I’m not. I kind of wish she didn’t do this. I hope Obama appoints her to some position where she has to deal with Old Fart Nevergonnagitoverit McCain and Cracker Graham all the time but with a foreign affairs chair who makes sure the Dos Amigos look mucho loco all the time.

  17. 17
    MattR says:

    I wonder how much of this is about having to deal with Republicans during the confirmation hearings and how much is about having to deal with them during the four years she would have been Secretary of State.

  18. 18
    Chris says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Amen.

    Who was it who said “he had an almost infinite reserve of public goodwill after his POW status. He has now used up that goodwill.” ? I agree with that.

  19. 19
    Ted & Hellen says:

    Score another Obama cave to Republican tantrum throwing.

    Look for PBO to now nominate John Kerry, who will then resign as senator, allowing Scott Brown to win the following special election for Kerry’s seat, thus weakening what little numerical dominance the senate Dems have now; all the better to provide excuses for FAIL down the road.

    So predictable.

  20. 20
    Alison says:

    God I fucking hate John McCain. What a miserable, pathetic, sad old sack of shit he is.

  21. 21
    BGinCHI says:

    @👽 Martin: How about the Fuck John McCain and that Asshole Lindsay Graham Act?

  22. 22
    JustAnotherBob says:

    I’m really hoping that PBO announces someone who is not John Kerry, or any other Democratic Senator.

    Nothing against Kerry, just want the Pubs handed a fail if getting Brown back into the Senate was driving their performance.

  23. 23
    The Dangerman says:

    @DougJ:

    Is he even that far in the closet?

    Is there a rating system (“he’s so Tom Cruise”)?

  24. 24
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @mai naem:

    Well, if I was a firebagger I would say that Obama CAVED.

    Well, since you’re censoring yourself to maintain your BJ kool kid kred, I’ll say it: Obama caved, predictably so.

    So a 400 year old senile fuckwad and a closeted milquetoast frightened Obama and Rice into backing off before they even got started.

    Looks like four more years of Democratic spinus minimus. Just the way the powers that be like it: Dem good cop to Repub bad cop. Enjoy the show.

  25. 25
    JWL says:

    “..I doubt this would have happend if Susan Rice was an old white guy”.

    I disagree. McCain and Graham are surely gloating tonight, but no more or no less than if their prey had been an old white guy. The administration bungled, and there is no excuse for it.

  26. 26
    Paul says:

    Who was it who said “he had an almost infinite reserve of public goodwill after his POW status. He has now used up that goodwill.” ? I agree with that.

    McCain in my opinion is just scum. He had no problems with all the lies that Condi Rice told the public. But when Susan Rice simply restated the same talking points that the CIA authorized then the hypocrite balked.

    He is the poster boy for what’s screwed up in DC. I am so glad he lost in 2008. At least there is some sweet justice in the world.

  27. 27
    Maude says:

    @MattR:
    Exactly. They would continually make it difficult.
    Dr. Rice did the right thing, but it makes me sad.

  28. 28
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    @Ted & Hellen: Since I’m not a firebagger, unlike you obviously, I’ll say that Rice caved. There ain’t a whole lot of crap that can be done if a person doesn’t want to run.

  29. 29
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Alison:

    God I fucking hate John McCain. What a miserable, pathetic, sad old sack of shit he is.

    John McCain just kicked Obama’s and Rice’s asses. So how does that make you feel about THEM?

  30. 30
    kindness says:

    What really happened?

    Please forgive my French when I say that I really really want Obama to fuck Republicans hard on the fiscal cliff and the debt ceiling. Oh sure, I wanted Obama to screw the Repubs on these previously but now I want bruises and pics on the web.

  31. 31
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Maude:

    Dr. Rice did the right thing, but it makes me sad.

    Your comment is codependency defined. Rice and Obama did exactly the WRONG thing. Her withdrawal rewards bad behavior, which encourages more of the same, just as we’ve seen over the last four years.

  32. 32
    Paul says:

    @Ted & Hellen:

    Look for PBO to now nominate John Kerry, who will then resign as senator, allowing Scott Brown to win the following special election for Kerry’s seat, thus weakening what little numerical dominance the senate Dems have now; all the better to provide excuses for FAIL down the road. So predictable.

    Why would Scott Brown win the special election? You think the Democratic voters are not going to show up as they chose not to do in 2010? If so, isn’t the bigger issue, what the hell is wrong with the Democratic voters? Or do you, like the Republicans, think anything that happens is Obama’s fault? If you overslept this morning – I guess in your mind that’s Obama’ fault.

    If Brown wins in a Democratic state, don’t you think the candidate, the local voters etc bear the vast bulk of the blame?

  33. 33
    Richard Fox says:

    What would really blow Republican lizard brains is Hagel for Defense and Lugar for Secretary of State. Real bipartisanship, not the faux kind. Personally I want Dems in both positions but the scenario I highlight would be cause for much mirth and hijinx.

  34. 34
    Hunter Gathers says:

    @DougJ: He’s in so far that even him pulling a Charlie Crist and marrying some poor woman wouldn’t be enough to keep him from that type of threat. It’s South Fucking Carolina, for corn’s sake. Haley put out an oppo dump on Colbert for joking about wanting to be Senator. Evidently, she’s unaware that he’s not really a conservative. Some poor staffer had to dig through Google for a few days because his boss lacks the sense of humor God gave the common housecat.

  35. 35
    Patricia Kayden says:

    Very disappointing. From the time I heard that she was meeting Republican Senators in closed door meetings, I knew her nomination was doomed. Why was she going around to them as if she had something to prove?

    When are Democrats going to figure out that Repubs want their scalps and that you cannot appease them? They are the enemy who want nothing more than to destroy the President and his party.

    Score one for the Repubs. Can just imagine the joy in Wingnuttia tonight.

  36. 36
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Paul:

    If Brown wins in a Democratic state, don’t you think the candidate, the local voters etc bear the vast bulk of the blame?

    If it plays out this way, I would blame Obama for nominating Kerry which opened up the seat. No nomination, no election.

    Mass. isn’t as hard core blue as people like to imagine.

  37. 37
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    When are Democrats going to figure out that Repubs want their scalps and that you cannot appease them?

    Come on…do you really think they don’t already know this?

    Which leads one to ask: Then why do they keep responding to them the way they do?

    Why indeed?

  38. 38
    The Dangerman says:

    @Ted & Hellen:

    Rice and Obama did exactly the WRONG thing.

    Which is why I think it was the lesser of two evils kinda thing; seems to me, if Obama nominated Rice and both went to the mat, she would get confirmed. There was some other downside risk that was worse than this alternative.

  39. 39
    Mike in NC says:

    I do look forward to pissing on Johnny Mac’s grave some day.

  40. 40
    Marc says:

    Y’know, it’d be handy not to make the thread all about the troll.

    Rice is not exactly all that progressive in any case. What was done to her by the Republicans was vile, but casting her as some liberal knight is truly odd. Unless you have some pathological need to attack Obama at the slightest pretext (e.g. see above.)

  41. 41
    General Stuck says:

    I been a big Susan Rice fan from the earliest Bush years, and I hate to see this. But it is not bean bags, and part of fighting the war is picking the right battles. I think this would have been a righteous fight, but as the pro she is, Rice did not want to distract from the epic class war on the horizon in this country. Obama can make her National Security Advisor,, or she can keep her UN rep job. And she remains a class act in the diplomacy world.

  42. 42
    Violet says:

    Remember when Elizabeth Warren took herself out of the running to head the new consumer finance org? Everyone was upset. That has worked out pretty well. Maybe it will work out as well with Rice.

  43. 43
    mai naem says:

    I wouldn’t be surprised if Obama goes after McCain when/if he runs for his Senate seat. I think he’ll either talk Carmona or Napolitano into running against McCain. Carmona came pretty close to beating Flake. AZ’s demos should be shifting enough to get a Dem senator.

  44. 44
    John O says:

    Occam’s Razor? She fell on her sword because she didn’t want to cost the POTUS the political capital, and maybe didn’t want the job that bad.

    And yes, John McCain is a serious prick.

  45. 45
    Valdivia says:

    Been drowned in family insanity for so long I haven’t had time to comment but had to do make an exception on this.

    First: as always DougJ you win win win the title as always.
    Second: How is this an Obama folding vs McCain thing? Really? This is what both the vapid Villagers are saying and also the whining emos who didn’t want her to begin with because she was a neocon or something.
    I guess this is the official day when the liberal firing circle begins and ruins Obama second term before it even begins. exasperating.

  46. 46
    sparrow says:

    @Ted & Hellen: How do I block this annoying person?

  47. 47
    Zifnab25 says:

    I see McCain has decided that no, he will not stop fucking the corpses of our brave men and women serving abroad, for his own political gain.

    Real patriot, that one.

  48. 48
    PsiFighter37 says:

    Fuck McCain – that’s a bumper sticker I could get behind.

    Could we get a free one if we order the pet calendar?

  49. 49
    Catsy says:

    I’d just ignore “Ted & Hellen”, as it’s apparently merely the latest appellation for one of our recurring trolls. I know I’ve seen that writing style and relentless mendacity before.

    Look no further than the assertion that Obama is somehow at fault for the Republican smear campaign and Rice’s decision to withdraw in the face of it. You pretty much have to abandon any pretense of good faith or credibility in order to make that argument.

  50. 50
    Alison says:

    @Ted & Hellen: He did not kick their asses, FFS. And how do I feel about them? I feel very sympathetic to Rice, a woman who saw what she was going to be in for and did not wish to bring that level of vitriolic, sexist hate upon herself. If for her own sense of sanity and inner peace she chose not to put herself out there, I do not blame her in the least, because I don’t fucking victim-blame.

    Obama? I have no ill-will towards him for this, because why should I? He publicly and vehemently denounced McCain and Graham’s bullshit, and made clear his staunch support of Rice. What should he have done – demand that she allow him to nominate her even if she didn’t want to be? Now THAT would have bothered me, because that would have ignored her agency and would have forced her to do what he wanted rather than what she wanted for herself.

    Nice try, but sorry – McCain is the a-hole here. Though you’re running a close second.

  51. 51
    BGinCHI says:

    @Valdivia: I think it’s Win the Battle, Lose the War, Val.

    Bullies always think they win at this kind of thing but it’s the short game.

  52. 52
    Turgidson says:

    @Violet:

    Maybe Susan Rice can run for Kerry’s vacated seat if he’s nominated. Ha.

  53. 53
    JustAnotherBob says:

    @Violet: It is amazing how some people assume that every move PBO and his crew makes is a fatal mistake.

    Especially if one takes a moment and considers how often he wins.

    Little faith….

  54. 54
    Brachiator says:

    I have to say I find this disappointing. I didn’t come into this with any particular feeling that Susan Rice needed to be Secretary of State. I was even a tad surprised when someone first floated the idea to me a couple months ago. But a totally cooked up smear campaign against Rice seems to have worked

    Yeah, the whole thing stinks. The timing stinks since Secretary of State Clinton is scheduled to appear before the Congress next week. I was expecting her to take any heat that was so stupidly focused on Rice.

    And there is no reason, none, for Obama to appoint Kerry, which is what the Republicans want. McCain and other Republican goons overstepped their “advise and consent” duties by saying in interviews that they wanted Kerry. It’s not their freaking choice to make.

    And yeah, they think that they can sneak Scott Brown in on the heels of a Kerry appointment to State.

    That said, it is still not clear whether something Rice said or did in the past especially raised the hackles of some of these little weasels.

    But the way things work in the Village, Rice’s letter could as much have been crafted for her as much as it could represent her honest sentiments.

    Had she been nominated and won confirmation, there really would not have been much that the Congress could have done except grind their teeth and chew their knuckles.

    And no matter what, Republican Congressmen are going to run back home and gloat about their victory here all over their Christmas recess.

  55. 55
    Valdivia says:

    @BGinCHI:

    I agree! I just cannot for the life of me understand the absolute rush to call Obama a coward by people supposedly on our side which they do while aiding the constant repetition by the Village of this idea (see Ben Smith about Obama being weak).

    between the Village and the chicken littles on our side the fate of the Republic seems dim to me.

  56. 56
    Paul says:

    @Valdivia:

    I guess this is the official day when the liberal firing circle begins and ruins Obama second term before it even begins. exasperating.

    It is no different than his first term when the firebaggers joined the tea baggers in criticizing Obama for anything in the world that wasn’t to their liking. Astonishing really. I’m just amazed at how much Obama has gotten accomplished in spite of having to fight a party that could care less about America (see the insane debt limit hostage taking) and fighting people in his own party who are completely clueless as to the limits of Presidential power and apparently to lazy to vote (2010).

  57. 57
    Ben Franklin says:

    Will the white revenge ever be complete post-Bork-ing?

  58. 58
    Carl Nyberg says:

    I suspect it was Rice’s investments that sealed the deal.

    Obama and the Dems would have been willing to fight the fight and lose, if it weren’t for the investments.

    With the investments, it would be too easy for the GOP to make Rice look bad.

    Having a Sec of State nominee heavily invested in foreign oil companies… come on, that looks bad.

  59. 59
    MikeJ says:

    @sparrow:

    How do I block this annoying person?

    Use firefox or chrome as your browser.
    Install Cleek’s pie filter.

  60. 60
    SteveinSC says:

    @sparrow: “How do I block this annoying person?” That’s right Sparrow, you do that, you fucking pansy. By the way, if throwing poor Susan Rice to the wolves will gain anything, let’s just remember. It isn’t Susan Rice they are after. Ring a bell? White Water, Travelgate, Paula Jones, Vince Foster, and finally Monica. They picked and they picked and finally pulled open a scab, thereby embarrassing the country forever with blow-job impeachment. Make no mistake about it, this is just another version of the Karl Rove “attack the messenger” ploy to divert from the train wreck the Repukes are facing on the budget.

  61. 61
    Ben Franklin says:

    @Carl Nyberg:

    I don’t mourn her passing, as a corporate girl, but I sure as hell don’t want Kerry, Scott Brown notwithstanding.

  62. 62
    Napoleon says:

    Great to see that gutless piece of shit Obama again folded. Hey Barry, you idiot, you just emboldened them like you did on the debt ceiling. What a fucking idiot.

  63. 63
    Valdivia says:

    @Paul:

    Somehow I thought that after the way he won reelection and the amazing things he accomplished in the first two years the hyper critical and the bed-wetters on our side would have learned the lesson. I guess I was to naive thinking that.

    I particularly love that there are people going around still saying– after the fucking congressional democrats knee capped him–that Obama caved on closing GITMO. And that today it is being used as yet another example of how like with Rice Obama is a weakling. I just cannot take this.

  64. 64
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @John O:

    Just this.

    Rice didn’t want the job that bad…wasn’t worth all the hassle, and she had a sneak preview of the confirmation hearing when she met with McGrumpy, Huckleberry, and the token broad from New Hampshire.

  65. 65
    Napoleon says:

    PS, I bet Obama proves he learned nearly nothing from his first term by nominating Kerry instead and giving them what they want.

  66. 66
    Hill Dweller says:

    Let’s see where Rice ends up before passing judgement. People freaked out when Warren withdrew herself from consideration for the head CFPB, only to find out later that she and Obama had formed a different plan.

    If Rice ends up at NSC, replacing Donilon, the wingnuts still lose.

    As an aside, Hagel getting the Sec. of Defense job is a big FU to McGramps.

  67. 67
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @JustAnotherBob:

    Well, the guy is, after all, a ni*CLANG*. It’s not like he’s smart enough to outfox the Rethugs or anything.

  68. 68
    Davis X. Machina says:

    @Carl Nyberg:

    I suspect it was Rice’s investments that sealed the deal.

    She was already taking significant heat for them — aand not from the right.

  69. 69
    Baud says:

    @Valdivia:

    Don’t sweat it. The trolls lost when Obama won reelection. They are irrelevant.

  70. 70
    weaselone says:

    Now would be the time for Obama to put forth some candidate who would serve as a two-fingered salute to the Republicans in the Senate.

  71. 71
    Paul says:

    @Valdivia:

    The GITMO thing just shows they are blatantly misinformed (I’m trying to be nice).

    It is funny that they seem to think Obama is worse than bush/devil, yet they give Bernie Sanders a free pass. The same Bernie Sanders who voted to keep GITMO open.

    We now have a couple of trolls above, who claim they are on our side, who are using derogatory names for our Democratic President. Who needs enemies with friends like that? Not exactly the type you want on your side in a war.

  72. 72
    J.W. Hamner says:

    I will wait until I see some solid reporting before rendering judgement, but I’ll be pretty disappointed if it turns out Obama caved to pressure on this. If, on the other hand, Rice decided she didn’t want to deal with the circus then that is also disappointing but clearly her prerogative.

  73. 73
    mai naem says:

    I don’t think it’s going to be Kerry. I may be wrong but after what happened 08-10 I don’t see Obama risking a seat even in Mass. There are other people out there. I wouldn’t have a problem with Lugar but if it’s going to be a Repub I would rather it be a younger Repub whose GOP political career would be over. I have a problem with Hagel. I don’t see why Dems think they should have republican Sec.s of Defense. There’s plenty of Dems out there. Also, like Tweety said, he’s going to have diversity in the bigger positions and right now if Holder resigns, it’s could be four white men.

  74. 74
    ogler says:

    You people sure have picked a hill to die on for someone who let Osama bin Laden traipse out of Sudan.

  75. 75
    scav says:

    Is hyperventilation an Olympic event yet?

  76. 76
    The Sheriff's A Ni- says:

    @scav: Its only been a little over a month since the election, maybe we set a new Olympic record.

  77. 77
    Darkrose says:

    @MattR: At a guess, it’s both. “So…if I make it through having my name dragged through the mud during the confirmation hearings, I can look forward to being called everything but a child of God for the next four years…nah. Fuck y’all; I’m outta here.”

  78. 78
    VOR says:

    Rice made some comments in the 2008 election critical of Senator McCain. I am sure that has a lot to do with his reasons for attacking her.

  79. 79
    Valdivia says:

    @Paul:
    amen. I would be even not nice saying some of those things :)

    @Baud:
    I know, it’s just makes me angry anyway.

  80. 80

    OT but my boss had dental surgery yesterday. Today he looks like someone had at him with a fucking baseball bat. He has two black eyes and his entire face is swollen to the size of a basketball. I would love for someone to explain to me what kind of surgery is worth that kind of abuse?

  81. 81
    The Sheriff's A Ni- says:

    @Paul:

    I’m just amazed at how much Obama has gotten accomplished in spite of having to fight a party that could care less about America (see the insane debt limit hostage taking) and fighting people in his own party who are completely clueless as to the limits of Presidential power and apparently to lazy to vote (2010).

    To be fair, we did win in 2012 without them.

  82. 82
    Darkrose says:

    @Brachiator:

    That said, it is still not clear whether something Rice said or did in the past especially raised the hackles of some of these little weasels.

    It’s clear to me. She had the nerve to be born with two X chromosomes and a high concentration of melanin.

  83. 83

    Well, McCain’s happy.

    But he’s still not President. And never will be.

  84. 84
    Ben Franklin says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt:

    Dental surgery? Sounds like he tripped in the shower. heh.

  85. 85
    Studly Pantload, the emotionally unavailable unicorn says:

    @Ted & Hellen: Dear, you’re once again trying too hard to disguise the fact that you’re a right-wing troll. But it *is* cute. ;o )

  86. 86
    Valdivia says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt:

    dental surgery? is that what the kids are calling it these days? ;)

  87. 87
    TheMightyTrowel says:

    FYWP just decided to switch itself into a rather fubar’d version of the mobile theme (on my desktop). Fucking joy.

  88. 88
    Humble Lurker says:

    @Ted & Hellen:

    So predictable.

    Projecting again I see.

  89. 89
    JWL says:

    @J.W. Hamner: Rice need not have said a word, much less “released a statement” to the world. She could have simply stayed quiet about it, until called on to endorse the eventual nominee. That’s it, that’s all she had to do. But she didn’t, because she wasn’t calling the shots. “Tattalglia is a pimp. He could have never pulled the wool over Santino’s eyes. But I never knew until tonight that it was Barzini all along”. The chef of this shit sandwich is the president, you can bet on that.

  90. 90
    Keith G says:

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent):

    Since I’m not a firebagger, unlike you obviously, I’ll say that Rice caved. There ain’t a whole lot of crap that can be done if a person doesn’t want to run

    I imagine that the goal to be SoS is/was so strong in her that she still wants it, but she was told that the fight would distract too much from issues facing the White House (the polite and very DC way of saying, “We are done.”)

    If she truly quit on her own, she would not have been a very good Sec of State. Brass is the ultimate prereq.

  91. 91
    MattR says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt: If it was dental surgery then I am guessing it was something necessary for the long term continued ability to chew. (EDIT: Unless of course that is code for getting cosmetic work done, in which case I completely don’t get it) I had nasal surgery about 10 years ago and while I definitely did not look that bad afterwards (EDIT: Though the doctor did warn me that black eyes were possible), I gladly would have accepted that kind of damage in exchange for the renewed ability to breathe out of my nose. Humorously, one of the biggest benefits is that it makes dental exams and cleanings much more pleasant.

  92. 92
    srv says:

    Blame the thugs all you want, but this is all kabuki theater. The realists in State and the NSC are throwing the Wilsonian R2P crowd out the door. There will be NO courtesy bombs for Syria, folks.

    I’ll predict that Samantha Powers will soon find more time to spend with her family and chair some new policy department at an appropriate institution.

    Next up DoD.

  93. 93
    Politics Follower says:

    The real question is this: if John Kerry is picked, is it possible for Scott Brown to be back in the Senate? That has to be entering Obama’s mind right now.

  94. 94
    Mandalay says:

    @Alison:

    I feel very sympathetic to Rice, a woman who saw what she was going to be in for and did not wish to bring that level of vitriolic, sexist hate upon herself.

    I don’t feel very sympathetic; she brought this on herself to some extent, since she has not been shy in dishing out vitriol herself.

    Our useless media is choosing to ignore that Susan Rice has twice very publicly branded McCain as a clueless warmonger in the past. It is difficult to disagree with that, but it is also hardly surprising that McCain chose to exact a massive dose of revenge once the opportunity arose.

  95. 95
    Taylor says:

    From the Guardian:

    Rice served in Bill Clinton’s administration as a national security adviser and an assistant secretary of state for Africa. She was out of office by the time of 9/11 and the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. But she backed the Bush administration’s claims that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, the false pretext for the invasion.

    “It’s clear that Iraq poses a major threat. It’s clear that its weapons of mass destruction need to be dealt with forcefully, and that’s the path we’re on. I think the question becomes whether we can keep the diplomatic balls in the air and not drop any, even as we move forward, as we must, on the military side,” she told National Public Radio in December 2002.

    In other NPR interviews, Rice supported the notion of “regime change” in Iraq, saying it did not require additional UN security council resolutions and reiterated her view that the case was proved that “Iraq has these weapons and is hiding them”.

    Aside from HRC losing the presidential nomination, has any member of the foreign policy elite paid any price for the Iraq fiasco?

    As soon as I heard that reptile Michael O’Hanlon was a backer of Rice, I stopped caring what happened to her.

    Maybe some Dem Senators sent Obama a note.

  96. 96
    Keith G says:

    @Darkrose:

    It’s clear to me. She had the nerve to be born with two X chromosomes and a high concentration of melanin.

    No

    She was just the lowest hanging fruit, the easiest scalp to be collected to show Obama that the R’s in the Senate can still kick him in the balls.

    Pure gamesmanship.

  97. 97
    karen marie says:

    @Patricia Kayden: Yes, but they’re still morons, celebrating a Pyrrhic victory.

  98. 98
    guachi says:

    Well, Obama got rolled and I don’t think there is any other way to parse it.

    The withdrawal letter claims that it’s bad to politicize the nomination and then gives in to the politicizers thus confirming that it’s GOOD to politicize the nomination. It worked!!

  99. 99

    @Ben Franklin: @Valdivia:

    No seriously, they somehow convinced him that a chipped tooth he got when he ran into a door while he was at Duke thirty years ago meant that his jaw bone was deteriorating and he had to have this surgery to stop his head falling off or something. Of course the 6 grand that the surgery was going to cost has nothing to do with it :) They scheduled the surgery on a Wednesday, obviously knowing that the resulting looking like you have been hit in the face with a baseball bat look would prevent him from working on Thursday and Friday. These people are insane.

  100. 100
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Violet:
    @Hill Dweller:

    I third this sentiment. Republicans should be careful what they wish for, because Obama seems to have a record of stuffing things right back up their asses in unexpected ways.

    I still love the fact that all of the Republican Senators who refused to let Warren’s nomination through are now forced to accept her as a colleague with more power than she would have had in the position they denied her. Nicely played, Sen. Warren and President Obama. Nicely played.

  101. 101
    catclub says:

    @sparrow: go find the pie filter

  102. 102
    redshirt says:

    Cool, the Firebaggers have something to be happy about.

  103. 103
    MattR says:

    @guachi:

    Well, Obama got rolled and I don’t think there is any other way to parse it.

    The easiest way to parse it is that nobody has sufficient information to reach any sort of informed conlusion about what happened.

    @Mnemosyne: Makes me wonder who Obama really had in mind for his first choice.

  104. 104
    catclub says:

    @Taylor: “As soon as I heard that reptile Michael O’Hanlon was a backer of Rice”

    I did not know that. Definitely takes away much of her appeal to the non-warmonger set.

  105. 105

    @BGinCHI: Don’t know. But a part of me really liked the suggestion I read that Obama should nominate Al Gore.

    It would be worth it just to see the GOP’s heads explode.

  106. 106
    Valdivia says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt:

    yikes! I feel bad for him now. :)

  107. 107
    General Stuck says:

    @Taylor:

    That was a crock of shit hatchet job by a crock of shit leftist euro rag writer and paper.

  108. 108
    redshirt says:

    @Comrade Dread: I LOVE the Al Gore idea, specifically to give Climate Change the attention it deserves.

  109. 109
    JPL says:

    Obama and Susan Rice are meeting on Friday in the Oval Office.
    I wonder if the meeting will be longer than the meeting with Boehner.

  110. 110
    JPL says:

    @Comrade Dread: I want Bill Clinton although just for two years until Patrick can run for Senate in MA.

  111. 111
    Mandalay says:

    @Taylor:

    Aside from HRC losing the presidential nomination, has any member of the foreign policy elite paid any price for the Iraq fiasco?

    Several come to mind:

    – Kerry, though TBF that was really because of his waffling and flip-flopping. If he had just chosen a position on Iraq and stuck with it (the actual position wouldn’t matter) he would have been fine.

    – We will have to wait a few years to see, but I think history will be brutal on Cheney and Dubya.

    – Rumsfeld is already seen as ruthless and incompetent. Plus he has to be careful about what countries he visits so he doesn’t get arrested.

    – Powell destroyed his own reputation.

    But as far as our gullible media elite is concerned, I can’t think on anyone who sustained lasting damage except Judith Miller.

  112. 112
    Paul says:

    @Taylor:

    Great find! It certainly makes her less appealing.

  113. 113
    Full Metal Wingnut says:

    No one has any leverage over Obama to force his hand on a Kerry SoS nomination. So can we drop that?

  114. 114

    @JPL: Yeah, but Bill will probably be too busy helping Hillary get ready for the nearly-inevitable 2016 run.

    Gore would bring Climate Change and Clean Energy to the front of the table. He’s extremely qualified for the job, and mostly he would piss off Republicans for constantly reminding Americans that they are anti-science when said science does not conform to their carefully constructed reality.

  115. 115
    Hill Dweller says:

    @Mnemosyne: Also too, I can’t imagine Warren would have run the CFPB any better than Richard Cordray has thus far.

    Obama ultimately got a competent CFPB and a potentially great Senator.

    Let’s see how the Rice ordeal plays out.

  116. 116
    Lojasmo says:

    @SteveinSC:

    Hey fucktard. How did your dire prognostications about the election turn out?

  117. 117
    Violet says:

    @Comrade Dread: I love the Al Gore idea too.

  118. 118
    weaselone says:

    Hmmm. I like the idea of Gore. Perfect choice to both piss off the reptiles and bring important issues to the forefront.

  119. 119
    Full Metal Wingnut says:

    Since Gore was actually elected 12 years ago, Obama should sign an executive order making him president in 2016. They had their Bush fun, now it’s finally time for the duly elected president to take office.

  120. 120
    JPL says:

    @Comrade Dread: True but which one would be able to tell Netanyahu to go entertain himself..

  121. 121
    Mandalay says:

    @General Stuck:

    That was a crock of shit hatchet job

    Bullshit – the Guardian article was quoting public remarks made my Susan Rice. How is that a hatchet job?

  122. 122
    Lojasmo says:

    @Napoleon:

    Yes, such an idiot he ended DADT, enacted a health care system better than Hillarycare, ended hostilities in Iraq, and killed Bin Laden.

    Also, elected president twice.

    Total idiot.

  123. 123

    @Valdivia: Don’t, he is gullible. He never once asked what would be the consequences of not having this done. He never once asked the various dentists (there are two of them in collusion) what would happen if he just left his crowns in place. He took at face value the fact that two dentists who are trying to make money told him that he HAD to have this 10K procedure. You know if it was me I would wonder what the dentists’ motivation was. Hmmmmmm wonder what that was? Oh look we have a Lawyer! He’s got money right? Let’s tell him he needs all this expensive surgery! Profit!

  124. 124
    gogol's wife says:

    @Full Metal Wingnut:

    I love that idea.

    No one has mentioned the stuff about Rice and her dealings in Africa that was in the Times the last few days. I have to admit I’m too tired at night when I finally read the paper to understand it, but it sounded as if there were some issues that could have been sticky. When I heard she’d withdrawn today, I assumed that it was more about that than about Benghazi.

  125. 125
    joeyess says:

    While I agree with this sentiment:

    But I doubt this would have happend if Susan Rice was an old white guy.

    I was a bit troubled by the reported conflict of interest regarding the XL Pipeline.

    Correct me if I’m wrong. I often am.

  126. 126
    Raven says:

    Here come Jerome Corsi, John O Neill and the SBV for Troof.

  127. 127
    Full Metal Wingnut says:

    @Mandalay: If it doesn’t conform to my perception it’s a hatchet job.

  128. 128
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    @sparrow:

    How do I block this annoying person?

    Intolerance, meet Asshole. Asshole, Intolerance.

  129. 129
    Keith G says:

    Well, at least the SoS post can now be given to a high profile diplomat who has a proven track record working with the military:

    Jill Kelley.

  130. 130
    mai naem says:

    BTW, Susan Rice is in her forties. John Kerry is in his sixties as is Hillary. She can comfortably sit through six presidential terms before she’s considered too old to be nominated for SOS. This is not some unfixable problem for Rice’s career goal.

  131. 131
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    Was Susan Rice ever a candidate for Sos? I don’t recall anyone in the administration saying that. And did she refuse a possible nomination because of McCain or Graham or rightwing nonsense? I never saw that reported anywhere.

    I’m admittedly out of the loop on this but it seems possible that we generated this whole thing out of nothingness and are now slotting a completely imagined series of events into our favorite political narrative.

  132. 132
    General Stuck says:

    @Mandalay:

    Rice served in Bill Clinton’s administration as a national security adviser and an assistant secretary of state for Africa. She was out of office by the time of 9/11 and the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. But she backed the Bush administration’s claims that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, the false pretext for the invasion.

    A lot of people thought Hussein still had WMD’s, and backed having inspectors go in to verify. That is not the same as stating, or implying that Rice was on board for the decision to invade Iraq. And I been following her career since the 90’s, and from the time of the Iraq Invasion on, she was a dependable and fierce critic of the Bushies.

    Please provide a clear statement that she supported the actual invasion in 2003, and especially Bush’s ignoring the UN requirement for a second vote.

    As for Rwanda, a lot of people missed that, until it was too late. And near all the killing happened in a three week period. If someone is to blame, the French and Belgians are at the top of that list. And Rice admitted her error, and vowed to step up when genocide was imminent into the future, and did so with Libya.

    In other NPR interviews, Rice supported the notion of “regime change” in Iraq, saying it did not require additional UN security council resolutions and reiterated her view that the case was proved that “Iraq has these weapons and is hiding them”.

    There is no link provided by the guardian supporting this claim. insinuation and innuendo – Hatchet job.

  133. 133
    karen marie says:

    @Taylor: Given this, and the foreign oil investments, I’m not surprised she’s withdrawn.

  134. 134
    Raven says:

    @mai naem: How about because, besides having been in congress, he carried a fuckin ruck in the bush?

  135. 135
    Full Metal Wingnut says:

    @Just Some Fuckhead: Maybe people aren’t giving Obama enough credit. McCain and Graham (especially the former) burned through a shitload of political capital to torpedo her. It was worth it alone to try to further discredit McCain. But even so, towards the end of Grampy Walnuts’ conniptions over Rice, even Lieberman thought it was too much. And that shit is imputed to the rest of the party (or it would be in a rational world). How many people can you realistically torpedo? The senate torpedoed Bork and then Doug Ginsburg withdrew. Sooner or later you’ve got to confirm someone (or that’s what the rules USED to be, anyway). And the Republicans just burned through one. This will be used against them when the time comes to really nominate someone. And again, nothing is forces Obama’s hand on the nomination. He’s playing war of attrition, and McCain’s gonna need to sit out for a while before anyone takes him seriously again.

  136. 136
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @sparrow:

    How do I block this annoying person?

    Cleek’s Pie Filter

  137. 137
    FlipYrWhig says:

    Maybe she decided she was done dealing with the bullshit. Sometimes people decide things themselves, you know, rather than having every apparent decision be the sign of some deep-down well-coordinated Matrix-style illusion.

  138. 138
    Mnemosyne says:

    @joeyess:

    I’m guessing that the financial ties to the Keystone pipeline backers were more of a problem for the administration than anything related to Benghazi, especially since we’re talking about foreign investors having a direct line to the US Secretary of State.

  139. 139
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Carl Nyberg:

    Having a Sec of State nominee heavily invested in foreign oil companies… come on, that looks bad.

    Ummm…plus, it IS bad.

  140. 140
    Anne Laurie says:

    @Brachiator:

    And there is no reason, none, for Obama to appoint Kerry

    Well, there’s the fact that the poor fella would love to get that job, and he’d be good at it. But if we start letting little issues like qualifications & competency stand in the way, what are the pundits gonna do for employment?

    If I were Susan Rice I would announce tomorrow that I was moving to South Carolina to explore running against Lindsay Graham, just to watch the explosion of bloody noses and babbling in tongues that would ensue.

  141. 141
    Full Metal Wingnut says:

    @FlipYrWhig: Unpossible. Yeah, State is probably a sweet job, but subjecting yourself to months of getting dragged through the mud, in public hearings. Fuck that. And your reward is a high-stress job. Probably a pretty awesome one, but still. Better to have a life.

  142. 142
    Kip the Wonder Rat says:

    @General Stuck: And so we start the “war” by giving away the first battle.

    Well, I guess it’s a strategy.

  143. 143
    Darkrose says:

    @Keith G: John McCain never would have said a white guy–or even a guy–who was a Stanford graduate and a Rhodes Scholar was “not very bright”.

  144. 144
    Mnemosyne says:

    @joeyess:

    Though it will be pretty funny to see all of the firebaggers who hated the XL pipeline screeching about how Obama threw Rice under the bus. Where’s my popcorn?

  145. 145
    Darkrose says:

    @FlipYrWhig: There you go with that Earth Logic.

  146. 146
    Lojasmo says:

    @Comrade Dread:

    Al gore is a GREAT idea!

  147. 147
    Comrade Jake says:

    I’m just mystified by this cw floating around that the worm really started to turn against Rice when Susan Collins came out against her. Jesus. Who the fuck cares what Collins thinks?

  148. 148
    General Stuck says:

    @Kip the Wonder Rat:

    STupid comment

  149. 149
    Anya says:

    But I doubt this would have happend if Susan Rice was an old white guy.

    Or an old white woman, apparently. Benghazi was the responsibility of Hilary Clinton and David Petraeus, yet Susan Rice who had nothing to do with it was crucified by the republicans and the media.

  150. 150
    redshirt says:

    @Full Metal Wingnut: SoS seems like a VERY stressful job. Second most stressful in the Administration, I reckon. So much traveling. So much research, So much shmoozing and smiling and hand shaking and sitting for hours upon hours at dinners where you cannot slip for even a moment. I mean, no doubt it’s awesome at times, but it must be a real grind.

  151. 151
    waratah says:

    @Just Some Fuckhead: Thank you for this post. We do not know if she was who he was going to choose.
    You have nailed it.

  152. 152
    General Stuck says:

    Oh well, forget it me. It’s firebagger town

  153. 153

    I have a suspicion that Rice was not the president’s choice to begin with, that some other person or persons were putting her name out there right after the election, and that the whole thing is now over.

    McCain & Company went after Rice because they had to do something other than wallow in the shit that rained all over them on November 6th, and none of them have the balls to go after Obama or Hillary Clinton in public.

    ETA – Or Petraeus either.

  154. 154
    Elizabelle says:

    @Anne Laurie:

    If I were Susan Rice I would announce tomorrow that I was moving to South Carolina to explore running against Lindsay Graham, just to watch the explosion of bloody noses and babbling in tongues that would ensue.

    Oh God, that would be awesome. I would go down there and canvass for her.

    Kerry’s term is up in 2014. Why not nominate someone good now, and maybe nominate Kerry later, when you’re assured a bigger turnout (such as you might get in a midterm).

  155. 155
    Steve Crickmore says:

    @General Stuck:
    Susan Rice: “We need to be ready for the possibility that the attack against the U.S. could come in some form against the homeland, not necessarily on the battlefield against our forces. And I think there, too, is an area where the American people need to be better prepared by our leadership. … It’s clear that Iraq poses a major threat. It’s clear that its weapons of mass destruction need to be dealt with forcefully, and that’s the path we’re on. I think the question becomes whether we can keep the diplomatic balls in the air and not drop any, even as we move forward, as we must, on the military side.” (NPR, Dec. 20, 2002)

    Susan Rice:“I think the United States government has been clear since the first Bush administration about the threat that Iraq and Saddam Hussein poses. The United States policy has been regime change for many, many years, going well back into the Clinton administration. So it’s a question of timing and tactics. … We do not necessarily need a further Council resolution before we can enforce this and previous resolutions. (NPR, Nov. 11, 2002)
    Of course, Hillary Clinton had this view and John Kerry as well.

  156. 156
    Anne Laurie says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt:

    I would love for someone to explain to me what kind of surgery is worth that kind of abuse?

    Can’t speak to your boss’ particular issues, but chronic low-grade dental infections have been strongly implicated in inflammation-related diseases like heart attacks & strokes. I’m pretty dental-phobic, but watching many older dogs & cats ‘turn back the clock’ after dental cleanings have reconciled me to tooth-doctoring whatever the anxiety & expense.

  157. 157
    General Stuck says:

    @Steve Crickmore:

    You got something to say. Spit it out. Spit it out.

  158. 158
    Anya says:

    @Richard Fox: Lugar is a thousand years old, he needs to retire. I like Hagel but I want Dems at both those positions.

  159. 159
    srv says:

    @Anya:

    Benghazi was the responsibility of Hilary Clinton and David Petraeus, yet Susan Rice who had nothing to do with it was crucified by the republicans and the media.

    Well, she certainly got herself onto the Sunday news circuit to talk about it.

    I’d consider she chose or was asked to throw herself onto that sword, but the ‘spin’ didn’t make things better, it made them worse.

    It’s time for the guy who is too old for 2016 and lord of the realists to take his rightful place at SoS and let Hillary assume the mantle.

  160. 160
    Taylor says:

    @General Stuck:

    Here:

    Here are some of her claims shortly before the invasion of Iraq: “I think he [then Secretary of State Colin Powell] has proved that Iraq has these weapons and is hiding them, and I don’t think many informed people doubted that.” (NPR, Feb. 6, 2003)

    “We need to be ready for the possibility that the attack against the U.S. could come in some form against the homeland, not necessarily on the battlefield against our forces. And I think there, too, is an area where the American people need to be better prepared by our leadership. … It’s clear that Iraq poses a major threat. It’s clear that its weapons of mass destruction need to be dealt with forcefully, and that’s the path we’re on. I think the question becomes whether we can keep the diplomatic balls in the air and not drop any, even as we move forward, as we must, on the military side.” (NPR, Dec. 20, 2002)

    “I think the United States government has been clear since the first Bush administration about the threat that Iraq and Saddam Hussein poses. The United States policy has been regime change for many, many years, going well back into the Clinton administration. So it’s a question of timing and tactics. … We do not necessarily need a further Council resolution before we can enforce this and previous resolutions. (NPR, Nov. 11, 2002)

  161. 161
    Maude says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt:
    Those two dentists scared him. It’s not his fault. There are doctors that do this. Procedures bring in money.
    He has had a rough time. I hope he feels better soon.

  162. 162
    redshirt says:

    A pre-emptive “fuck that” to anyone who says everyone thought Iraq was a threat in 2002 or had WMD. I did not, and knew plenty of people who did not. So Rice’s support does dim her in my eyes. I also had no idea she was so rich.

  163. 163
    Maude says:

    @Taylor:
    Give it a rest. She’s gone. You can start picking on someone else now.

  164. 164
    Comrade Jake says:

    Dangerous question, I know, but what exactly has Rice done to make us think she’d be a kick-ass SoS?

  165. 165
    General Stuck says:

    @Steve Crickmore:

    She said a lot of things in the NPR interview, and none of them were a clear position to go into Iraq. And the Guardian bases it’s conclusion, or implied conclusion that Rice was a supporter for invasion at the time. If you want to ding her for not taking a strong stand either way, then that would be accurate. But after the invasion, she was a pit bull pundit against the Bush Administration, and there was no ambiguity about that, nor failing to finish the job in Afghanistan. I heard it with me own ear,

  166. 166
    clayton says:

    I like her staying at the UN. While the hearings for SoS in the Senate would have opened the door for the GOP to attack Obama, having the UN slot open as well would have doubled the trouble.

    Let Rice stay at the UN. The Russian ambassador just said tonight that if she stays for another 4 years there that he wants double the pay for the effort he will have to make — because she is that good.

  167. 167
    Msskwesq says:

    I think that when her portfolio of investments came to light and Dems started questioning her nomination, she read the writing on the wall.

  168. 168
    Msskwesq says:

    I think that when her portfolio of investments came to light and Dems started questioning her nomination, she read the writing on the wall and withdrew her name.

  169. 169
    Keith G says:

    @Darkrose: There was this one Rhodes Scholar, a white fellow, not a Cardinal, but a Hoya, who McCain obviously felt had been very stupid.

    Now, I am not sure that McCain ever publicly called him stupid (I am sure he did in private), but he did vote to remove this guy from the office of President on very flimsy reasons.

    While it could be that McCain is prejudiced against Hoyas (I don’t much like them myself), my feeling is that McCain carries grudges like a mutha fucka, and he cannot resist a good political “gotcha.”

    YMMV.

  170. 170
    Paul says:

    @redshirt:

    A pre-emptive “fuck that” to anyone who says everyone thought Iraq was a threat in 2002 or had WMD. I did not, and knew plenty of people who did not. So Rice’s support does dim her in my eyes.

    I recall how the UN inspectors were ridiculed in our country before the war started. They were called blind, retarded, idiots and what have you.

    But they were proven right and the name callers were wrong. I would have hoped somebody like Susan Rice would have paid more deference to the UN inspectors when it counted.

  171. 171

    I think it has less to do with race/gender in this case and more to do with Rice not being “in the club.” Keep in mind, these were the same people who thought Condi Rice was an awesome Secy of State — she with the oil tanker named for her.

  172. 172
    General Stuck says:

    @Taylor:

    The transcripts of those interviews at NPR are behind a paywall, it seems. She also said other things in those interviews that were negatives about an invasion. Like i said, if you want to ding her for not taking a clear stand one way or another, then fine, that is accurate. But the guardian is dealing with poor evidence to imply she was an Iraq war supporter, and certainly not after the invasion. I just hate it when liberals seem to go out of their way to stomp on quality public servants because they don’t live up to the leftist purity standards. And really, what does O’Hannlon supporting have to do with her qualifications? Some twisted guilt by association.

    It’s not true, as some left-wing websites claim, that Rice “was a cheerleader for Bush’s invasion of Iraq.” But if, as Rice herself claims, she supported Obama in 2008 because on Iraq he made “the same unpopular choice I had made,” the evidence is hard to find. In fact, what’s striking about the four NPR interviews Rice did in the run-up to war was her capacity to avoid taking a clear position one way or another. At times, Rice does indeed sound skeptical of military action. In November 2002, she warned that there are “many people who think that we haven’t finished the war against al Qaeda and our ability to do these simultaneously is in doubt.” In December, she urged a “more honest assessment of what the costs will be of the actual conflict, as well as the aftermath.” And the following February, she said that “there are many who fear that going to war against Iraq may in fact in the short term make us less secure rather than more secure.”

  173. 173
    Steve Crickmore says:

    @General Stuck:

    I was responding to your statement on the Guardian.,
    There is no link provided by the guardian supporting this claim. insinuation and innuendo – Hatchet job

    Her statements in support of the Iraqi invasion(like senators Clinton’s and Senator Kerry’s) should have endeared Susan Rice to conservatives like McCain. My main criticism is that the same GOP senators, there were only two dissenters, voted in favor of the nomination of Hillary Clinton 94-2, as Secretary of State, someone that Carl Bernstein wrote,

    Since her Arkansas years, Hillary Rodham Clinton has always had a difficult relationship with the truth… Judged against the facts, she has often chosen to obfuscate, omit, and avoid..Her record as a public person is replete with “misstatements” and elisions and retracted and redacted and revoked assertions…

    Susan Rice, an easier and less formidable target was more open and forthright and but not a member of the club like Kerry and Hillary, even though her views, center-left, on foreign affairs are very similar to those two.

  174. 174
    Mandalay says:

    @General Stuck:

    When you are in a hole stop digging.

    Your unwavering support for Susan Rice is touching, but your claim that quoting Rice’s remarks amounts to a hatchet job is just willful blindness.

    But after the invasion, she was a pit bull pundit against the Bush Administration

    If that was immediately after the invasion then she did an amazing flip flop. If it was sometime after the invasion then she was hardly alone.

  175. 175
    Comrade Jake says:

    There really weren’t a whole lot of national-level pols who were public in their opposition to the Iraq invasion beforehand.

  176. 176
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Full Metal Wingnut: I wish you were right but I doubt the Repubs and their T’Bagging supporters are thinking that they “burned through one” and therefore won’t do their utmost to block future nominees.

    How many judges nominated by President Obama have been blocked (perhaps permanently) by the Repubs? They block his nominees at much higher rates than Clinton or Bush nominees.

  177. 177
    General Stuck says:

    @Paul:

    But they were proven right and the name callers were wrong. I would have hoped somebody like Susan Rice would have paid more deference to the UN inspectors when it counted.

    And how do you know she didn’t? Most of the NPR bullshit happened in 2002, before the inspectors got going and found cobwebs where Colin Powell and the CIA claimed were wmd factories.

  178. 178
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Comrade Jake:

    True. Obama was against the war, but he was an Illinois state senator at the time, not someone with a national profile.

  179. 179
    Lolis says:

    I don’t really care who is SoS or Defense Secretary. Obama sets the policy goals and they carry them out. It is ridiculous to get lathered about this as if it were a huge policy proposal like the public option or Medicare for All. This is pretty small potatoes stuff. If McCain and Graham feel like they won–let them. They are not winning anything else these days.

  180. 180
    Baud says:

    OT: Just heard Michael Moore on Ed talking about Michigan and saying people didn’t take 2010 seriously enough.

  181. 181
    Maude says:

    @General Stuck:
    The Guardian slips into gossip on American politics at times. They love stuff like what happened to Susan Rice.

  182. 182
    Violet says:

    @Baud: Who did he mean by “people”? Democrats in 2010? Democrats now, looking back and thinking 2010 wasn’t a big deal? Republicans? The media? Who are “people”?

  183. 183
    Punchy says:

    Hey John…..the site is a steaming pile of abortion using an Android mobile system. Please unfuck the WP and gimmie back my BJ

  184. 184
    Valdivia says:

    She might go to NSA as well or stay at the UN.

    It bothers me that no one is mentioning that if Obama only nominated her because she was being attacked by McGrumps, if she wasn’t his first choice, then McCain would have forced his hand in that way. But then that would have been seen as strong by the Village and the whiners because spiting people is the way these people think governing happens. One of the things I actually appreciate about Obama is that he governs the way he sees fit, not by revanchist instincts.

  185. 185
    Cacti says:

    Former Iraq war cheerleader who was never actually nominated withdraws name from consideration.

    Could one of my progressive betters tell me which part I’m supposed to be outraged about?

  186. 186
    Lojasmo says:

    @Ted & Hellen:

    Well then, since she was shitcanned before her nomination ever occurred, then Obama did a good.

    Amirite?

    Also too, I never saw you screaming that she was a potential nominee who was an Iraq war cheerleader.

    One wonders, are you 90% full of shit, or 93% full of shit, doesn’t one?

  187. 187
    General Stuck says:

    @Mandalay:

    Your unwavering support for Susan Rice is touching, but your claim that quoting Rice’s remarks amounts to a hatchet job is just willful blindness.

    Fuck you. I am not defending Rice so much as throwing firebagger shit back at the source. You have nothing but a John McCain like drive to go out of your way to smear this woman. Who happens to be black. It is a hatchet job when you don’t quote all she said, to reach a conclusion that isn’t proven by those remarks. Nothing good about Rice was in the Guardian hatchet job, and it was innuendo for the purpose of playing to American leftist bullshit to smear one of their own. My opinion? and for the same reason McCain went after her, cause she is black and a woman. Easy target.

  188. 188
    Chris says:

    @Punchy:

    Hey John…..the site is a steaming pile of abortion using an Android mobile system. Please unfuck the WP and gimmie back my BJ

    Really? I’ve got a droid and I love the changes. Used to be whenever I loaded Balloon Juice the writing would be tiny and I’d have to increase it every time I reloaded, commented or moved to a new page, now it’s all the right size. And no negative side effects that I can tell.

  189. 189
    Baud says:

    @Violet:

    Don’t know.

  190. 190
    Gregory says:

    The liberal media strikes again.

  191. 191
    General Stuck says:

    @General Stuck:

    Once again for the morons on this thread. Rice said other shit in those interviews of 2002.

    It’s not true, as some left-wing websites claim, that Rice “was a cheerleader for Bush’s invasion of Iraq.” But if, as Rice herself claims, she supported Obama in 2008 because on Iraq he made “the same unpopular choice I had made,” the evidence is hard to find. In fact, what’s striking about the four NPR interviews Rice did in the run-up to war was her capacity to avoid taking a clear position one way or another. At times, Rice does indeed sound skeptical of military action. In November 2002, she warned that there are “many people who think that we haven’t finished the war against al Qaeda and our ability to do these simultaneously is in doubt.” In December, she urged a “more honest assessment of what the costs will be of the actual conflict, as well as the aftermath.” And the following February, she said that “there are many who fear that going to war against Iraq may in fact in the short term make us less secure rather than more secure.”

  192. 192
    Lojasmo says:

    @Punchy:

    John can unfuck WP as well as god can save the world.

    Get a real device.

  193. 193
    AA+ Bonds says:

    Why the SHIT is he going with John Kerry?

    Do you want to know why he’s expected to face little opposition from Republicans?

    Because he makes the Democrats look like fucking losers.

  194. 194
    Sasha says:

    Obama should nominate Lugar. I fucking dare the GOP to block his appointment.

  195. 195
    Keith G says:

    @Sasha: I do’t think we are ready for an 80 y.o. Sec of State.

  196. 196
    lacp says:

    Whether it was Rice’s or Obama’s decision for her to bow out, it was a good one. The Republicans would have jammed the works forever, all the while complaining that they couldn’t get the nation’s work done because the President was “obsessed” with making Rice SoS. No result and bad optics? Doesn’t sound like a winning hand.

    I kind of like Pat Lang’s suggestion of John Huntsman for SoS, although I doubt that will happen.

  197. 197
    LC says:

    Susan Rice withdraws her name. The “royal” nurse commits suicide. Parallels?

    Discuss.

  198. 198
    srv says:

    @AA+ Bonds: The two Johns have been locked in a fitful embrace for 20 years.

  199. 199
    Full Metal Wingnut says:

    @Patricia Kayden: But again, nothing is forcing Obama’s hand on this one. I keep hearing talk as though Rice and Kerry are the only two people in the known universe qualified for State.

  200. 200
    Darkrose says:

    @Southern Beale: But Condi Rice was okay, because she was their human shield. Any time someone suggested that the GOP was hostile to woman and people of color, you could always point to Condi and say “See! We have A Black Woman, so we can’t possibly be misogynistic or racist! You liberals are the real racists because you criticized her for saying we couldn’t have known Bin Laden was Determined to Attack in US!”

    And C. Rice knew better than to rock the boat. I lost whatever respect I had for Colin Powell after the UN presentation, but at least he admitted that he was wrong (WAY too late), and he’s been willing to call his (former?) party out on their racist bullshit. Meanwhile, Condi Rice accepts a speaking slot at the GOP convention and certainly doesn’t use that as a platform to to speak truth to power.

    I could be wrong. Maybe McCain’s vitriol toward Susan Rice has nothing to do with her being a member of two groups he’s expressed contempt for in the past. Maybe the whispers about S. Rice flipping off Richard Holbrooke and being too “blunt” and “brash” and other b-words for the SoS have nothing to do with her race or gender or the combination of both.

    I just don’t think I am.

  201. 201
    Full Metal Wingnut says:

    @Darkrose: Hell, he was what, third from the bottom at the Naval Academy? He has no standing to attack anyone’s intelligence, really.

    And I’ve known a couple people who went there, and I know it’s not an easy school, but…come on…

  202. 202
    Mandalay says:

    @General Stuck:

    You have nothing but a John McCain like drive to go out of your way to smear this woman.

    Nonsense. In other threads I have supported her, and attacked McCain. I am merely pointing out that your views are absurd.

    My opinion? and for the same reason McCain went after her, cause she is black and a woman.

    Well that is a easy and convenient accusation to make, but there is no evidence for it at all. There are several much more plausible reasons for what McCain did:
    [1] McCain did it for the same reason a dog licks his balls: because he can, and there was no downside to going after Rice.
    [2] McCain loathes Obama, and attacking Rice was indirectly attacking Obama.
    [3] My own view is that McCain has a deep personal dislike for Susan Rice because of remarks she has made about him in the past, regarding McCain walking around Baghdad in 2007, and his comments on Russia’s invasion of Georgia in 2008 of which she said this: “When this crisis began, Barack Obama, the administration indeed and all of our NATO allies took a measured and reasoned approach because we were dealing with the facts as we knew them. John McCain shot from the hip, very aggressive, very belligerent statement. He may or may not have complicated the situation.”

    So while what happened to Rice may seem unfair, I think she has brought it on herself to some extent.

    Fuck you.

    Stay classy.

  203. 203
    Lojasmo says:

    In this thread, we discover Mandalay is Ted & Helen’s sock.

  204. 204
    gwangung says:

    Jeezus. Lot of dim people on this thread. Can’t play poker for shit, let alone real world politics.

  205. 205
    JKormac says:

    Well, I can’t wait to see who Senator McCain nominates for Sec of State.

  206. 206
    Full Metal Wingnut says:

    @AA+ Bonds: When did Obama indicate he was going to do that? Nice trolling.

    It is all over the press though. I wonder if it’s the Administration feeling it out, or just the Media really wants Kerry out of the Senate and has jumped on that bandwagon. Who knows.

  207. 207
    catclub says:

    @lacp: “The Republicans would have jammed the works forever”

    I thought it would be the clearest reason to end filibusters on nominations.
    Now they have an excuse to not bother to change the filibuster rules.

  208. 208
    sylvan says:

    @Mandalay:

    I am still astounded at how almost all the FPers dutifully report on the latest awful thing that well known jerkoffs like Palin/Coulter/Sullivan/Trump/etc. have said or done, as though they have performed some vital public service

    You lost the 2012 election to President Barack Hussein Obama.

    He will be your president for the next four years.

    No amount of whining or payback is ever going to change that.

    Deal.With.It.

  209. 209
    master c says:

    Why does everyone think Brown can get voted back in in Mass? He just got smoked. He is done

  210. 210
    Corner Stone says:

    @lacp:

    Whether it was Rice’s or Obama’s decision for her to bow out, it was a good one. The Republicans would have jammed the works forever,

    God damn. We’re really going to be in a defensive crouch forever, aren’t we?

  211. 211
    mark says:

    when is an open thread coming so we can talk about this fresh? i wanna post this near a top where folks can discuss.

    but at work today, in a very very bohner red part of ohio, my co workers were all elated. they said basically “its about time the country isnt represented by a colored woman.” that was their only focus. i never heard benghazi from one of them.

  212. 212
    sylvan says:

    @Corner Stone:

    It’s realistic.

    Unless you’re one of those party before country folks.

  213. 213
    FlipYrWhig says:

    Isn’t it far stupider to have Chuck Hagel as SecDef than any of this?

  214. 214
    Hill Dweller says:

    Again, let’s wait and see where Rice ends up. She very well could replace Donilon at NSC.

  215. 215
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Corner Stone: who is “we”?

  216. 216
    General Stuck says:

    @Mandalay:

    My views are absurd? All I said was that the guardian article was a hatchet job, and it was. There was nothing positive in it. It was written so idiots like you can continue smearing this woman, like Mccain. I gave you links to where there were quotes of hers at that time that were not positive for going into Iraq. What she was doing, not being a politician, was giving fuller analysis of pro and con. The guardian purposely left those quotes out of their hatchet job. And reached their intended stooge. Mandalay, et al. And I have no intent on staying classy with this kind of bullshit., deal

  217. 217
    Fluke bucket says:

    @LC: made my night. I am going to bed. Thanks

  218. 218
    Corner Stone says:

    What have “we” given up longing for the better nature of men? What fights are left that “we” need to give proper respect to the obstructionist powers of Republicans?
    When will they give “us” the all clear to actually stand for anything.

  219. 219
    General Stuck says:

    @Mandalay:

    3] My own view is that McCain has a deep personal dislike for Susan Rice because of remarks she has made about him in the past, regarding McCain walking around Baghdad in 2007, and his comments on Russia’s invasion of Georgia in 2008 of which she said this: “When this crisis began, Barack Obama, the administration indeed and all of our NATO allies took a measured and reasoned approach because we were dealing with the facts as we knew them. John McCain shot from the hip, very aggressive, very belligerent statement. He may or may not have complicated the situation.”

    Christ, so she was asking for it from being mean by criticizing mccain in the past concerning Iraq, plus now, good riddance cause she was an Iraq war cheerleader as well. stupid

  220. 220
    sylvan says:

    @Corner Stone:

    When “we” stop bitching about Hillary Clinton losing in a primary four years ago.

  221. 221
    lacp says:

    @Corner Stone:I wouldn’t know if the Dems are doing a defensive crouch or not, since I’m not a Dem, but I’m not sure what advantage you see in having the Senate do nothing for the next four years except hold a marathon hearing on why Susan Rice should or should not be SoS. This looks like another non-issue that Republicans very much wanted to turn into a circus.

  222. 222
    Mandalay says:

    @General Stuck:

    Christ, so she was asking for it from being mean

    You are very naive if you find that implausible, but she went beyond “being mean”. Susan Rice twice chose to publicly ridicule and demean McCain.

    I fully agree with her remarks about him, but it is hardly surprising that he is now going after her as payback. That is human nature. We can see the same process on this board, with your tantrums after I ridiculed you.

  223. 223
    Narcissus says:

    Is there any reason at all to think Rice was even being considered for the position in the first place? Because I don’t remember hearing anything about that until after the smear campaign started, and it was usually in the same breath she was being smeared that I was hearing about how this could keep her from SoS.

    Basically what I’m saying is this thread reminds me of internet discussions about whether or not the starship Enterprise could win a fight with a Star Destroyer

  224. 224
    Mandalay says:

    @Narcissus:

    Is there any reason at all to think Rice was even being considered for the position in the first place?

    There are several reasons to that that she was:
    1. She had said nothing to squash rumors that she wanted the job.
    2. She was qualified for the position.
    3. There are not that many other eligible candidates, and giving the job to Kerry would mean his seat is up for grabs.
    4. She is very close to the president personally.
    5. Obama went out of his way to publicly defend her after the initial attacks.

    All just circumstantial stuff, but collectively it seems persuasive to me that she wanted the job, and Obama wanted to give it to her.

  225. 225
    General Stuck says:

    @Mandalay:

    ou are very naive if you find that implausible, but she went beyond “being mean”. Susan Rice twice chose to publicly ridicule and demean McCain.

    I didn’t say it was implausible. I said you pulled it out of your ass and seemingly to justify a ‘she asked for it”; opportunity.

    Preceded by eagerly accepting a foreign newspaper polemic attack on an American diplomat, putting up half the story on what she said about Iraq in 2002 and concluding she was a Iraq war cheerleader.

    And squaring that with her relentless criticism of not only Mccain, but most all the Iraq war supporters that are republican, after the war started.

    I don’t know what you are, or what your angle is, but keep talking, we’ll figure it out together.

  226. 226
    Pseudonym says:

    Why not have Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden switch places? It’s not like the VP has a ton of work to do.

  227. 227
    Nickws says:

    @ogler:

    You people sure have picked a hill to die on for someone who let Osama bin Laden traipse out of Sudan.

    Whoa champ, don’t go too deep into the conspiracy theory weeds there; your FoxNewsverse narrative can do without the added incoherence for explaining why Amb. Rice is History’s Greatest Monster 2.0., what with the Benghazigate fairytale already being so unbelievable.

  228. 228
    Alex S. says:

    @General Stuck: +

    Come on, the article was published AFTER Rice withdrew her nomination. There was no need for a hatchet job anymore.

    I don’t see too many downsides here. The Obama administration can once again show to the black community that the Republicans are out to get them. Also, it’s simply Kerry’s turn. He deserves it. I don’t think that the threat of Scott Brown is that great. It would be his 3rd election in 6 years. There must be some kind of Scott Brown-fatigue. His campaign is probably cash-stripped. Warren won with a healthy margin and the democratic machine still has the Coakley campaign in mind. And even if Brown is elected, that still leaves 54 democratic senators, which means nothing right now, and it still leaves republicans in 2014 with an uphill battle.
    As for Rice, yes it’s disappointing that the Benghazi thing was overblown, but Rice was not THAT perfect. The Benghazi thing should be off the table now. Rice will get another job.

  229. 229
    Paul says:

    @General Stuck:

    And how do you know she didn’t? Most of the NPR bullshit happened in 2002, before the inspectors got going and found cobwebs where Colin Powell and the CIA claimed were wmd factories.

    Here’s what Susan Rice said in December 2002:

    “It’s clear that Iraq poses a major threat. It’s clear that its weapons of mass destruction need to be dealt with forcefully, and that’s the path we’re on. I think the question becomes whether we can keep the diplomatic balls in the air and not drop any, even as we move forward, as we must, on the military side,” she told National Public Radio in December 2002.

    The UN inspectors started its inspection program in November 2002. Don’t you think Rice’s comments were just a bit irresponsible (don’t get me started on the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Powell rhetoric which now is beyond embarrassing) considering she obviously didn’t have all the facts? Don’t you think she, like Bush, should have given the UN inspectors more time before claiming that they had WMD’s as fact? Otherwise, as with Bush/Cheney, you look awfully stupid down the road when the facts come out.

  230. 230
    Paul says:

    @General Stuck:

    And how do you know she didn’t? Most of the NPR bullshit happened in 2002, before the inspectors got going and found cobwebs where Colin Powell and the CIA claimed were WMD factories.
    Here’s what Susan Rice said in December 2002:

    “It’s clear that Iraq poses a major threat. It’s clear that its weapons of mass destruction need to be dealt with forcefully, and that’s the path we’re on. I think the question becomes whether we can keep the diplomatic balls in the air and not drop any, even as we move forward, as we must, on the military side,” she told National Public Radio in December 2002.

    The UN inspectors started its inspection program in November 2002. Don’t you think Rice’s comments were just a bit irresponsible (don’t get me started on the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Powell rhetoric which now is beyond embarrassing) considering she obviously didn’t have all the facts? Don’t you think she, like Bush, should have given the UN inspectors more time before claiming that they had WMD’s as fact? Otherwise, as with Bush/Cheney, you look awfully stupid down the road when the facts come out.

  231. 231
    Paul says:

    @General Stuck:

    And how do you know she didn’t? Most of the NPR bullshit happened in 2002, before the inspectors got going and found cobwebs where Colin Powell and the CIA claimed were WMD factories.
    Here’s what Susan Rice said in December 2002:

    “It’s clear that Iraq poses a major threat. It’s clear that its weapons of mass destruction need to be dealt with forcefully, and that’s the path we’re on. I think the question becomes whether we can keep the diplomatic balls in the air and not drop any, even as we move forward, as we must, on the military side,” she told National Public Radio in December 2002.

    The UN inspectors started its inspection program in November 2002. Don’t you think Rice’s comments were just a bit irresponsible (don’t get me started on the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Powell rhetoric which now is beyond embarrassing) considering she obviously didn’t have all the facts? Don’t you think she, like Bush, should have given the UN inspectors more time before claiming that they had WMD’s as fact? Otherwise, as with Bush/Cheney, you look awfully stupid down the road when the facts come out.

  232. 232
    Paul says:

    Testing

  233. 233
    brantl says:

    The Republicans have been desperately throwing shit at the wall lately ( see: The Great Orange Boner, John) as a way to try to sabotage the government, and now they have found that truly deranged shit, has hit the wall, and stuck.

  234. 234
    joeyess says:

    @Elizabelle: Imagine that conversation in the Oval Office…..

    Rice: “Just for the hell of it, I should announce my candidacy for Senator of South Carolina”

    Obama et al: *crickets* (Obama et al leave hurriedly, obviously to huddle up the strategy)

    Rice: “Guys? I was joking…… Guys? GUYS!!!!!

  235. 235
    Triassic Sands says:

    It’s time to give the Republicans a State nominee the whole world will love — Bill Clinton.

    Best possible nominee. And it would infuriate the Republicans to have to vote on him, but how could they say no?

    Oh, yeah, I remember now — they’re completely insane and don’t give a shit about what’s good for this country. It would provide a real spectacle to have the GOP reject the incomparably qualified and more popular than ever Clinton. I can’t think of anything that would hold Republican senators up for world-wide rebuke than the spectacle of them trying to fabricate reasons for opposing Clinton.

    Worst possible nominee? John Kerry. Why not just deliver a semi-permanent Republican senate seat to Republicans in what should be a reliably Democratic state. Talk about rewarding bad behavior.

  236. 236
    General Stuck says:

    @Paul:

    The UN inspectors started its inspection program in November 2002. Don’t you think Rice’s comments were just a bit irresponsible (don’t get me started on the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Powell rhetoric which now is beyond embarrassing) considering she obviously didn’t have all the facts? Don’t you think she, like Bush, should have given the UN inspectors more time before claiming that they had WMD’s as fact? Otherwise, as with Bush/Cheney, you look awfully stupid down the road when the facts come out.

    What i am saying is that those words said to NPR, were not the only ones she stated in those interviews. And she also provided notes of caution and criticism for an Iraq invasion at that time. Which few people with a career on the line were providing. The guardian simply googled some blog posts from some left wing American blogs, touting only the more favorable comments to invading Iraq she said with a ‘Iraq war cheerleader’ implication, and that was all. I’ve posted and reposted those remarks of a more cautionary note she also stated, on this thread, but some folks only want to hear what they want. A major newspaper publishes a story with a theme that only uses part of the evidence that may support that theme, and that is the definition of a polemic hatchet job. I’m only surprised that Greenwald didn’t have the byline. Dana Milbank took the same road a few weeks back for a Rice bashing, and I think Cole even put up a post on it here.

  237. 237
    AxelFoley says:

    @Ted & Hellen:

    Fuck the fuck off, bitch.

  238. 238
    AxelFoley says:

    @Napoleon:

    Fuck you and your family.

  239. 239
    AxelFoley says:

    @Napoleon:

    Fuck you and your family again.

  240. 240
    AxelFoley says:

    @Baud:

    OT: Just heard Michael Moore on Ed talking about Michigan and saying people didn’t take 2010 seriously enough.

    The fuckin’ gall of him saying that. He, along with Ed, were telling people to sit out 2010 to teach Obama and the Dems a lesson.

    How’d that work out for ya, Mikey?

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