Sorry, Charlie

Charles Murray has a sad about Asians (h/t reader S):

And yet something has happened to define conservatism in the minds of Asians as deeply unattractive, despite all the reasons that should naturally lead them to vote for a party that is identified with liberty, opportunity to get ahead, and economic growth. I propose that the explanation is simple. Those are not the themes that define the Republican Party in the public mind. Republicans are seen by Asians—as they are by Latinos, blacks, and some large proportion of whites—as the party of Bible-thumping, anti-gay, anti-abortion creationists. Factually, that’s ludicrously inaccurate. In the public mind, except among Republicans, that image is taken for reality.

White evangelicals made up about half of Republican primary voters in a 14 state poll, Republicans are substantially more likely to be creationists than Democrats of independents, 72% of Republicans identify as pro-life (as compared with 38% of Democrats), Republicans have consistently opposed marriage equality, even putting measures opposing it on ballot initiatives.

So Murray is just plain wrong about the Republican party.

Share On Facebook
Share On Twitter
Share On Google Plus
Share On Pinterest
Share On Reddit

127 replies
  1. 1
  2. 2
    Short Bus Bully says:

    The one thing that ALL self identified Republicans have in common across the board? A deep and abiding dedication to living in a self-sustaining Alternate Reality.

    This demographer is the perfect example.

  3. 3
    Joe Max says:

    It’s quite simple, Mr. Murray – Asian-Americans see how much the GOP actively disparages everyone who isn’t a white male evangelical, and they are not stupid.

  4. 4
    gwangung says:

    Old news.

    But far from me to refrain from thumping bigots like Murray and the Republican party over the head….

    DId you remember the one I told about how Republicans pissed away their advantage with Asian Americans in the state of Washington….?

  5. 5
    Turgidson says:

    Here goes another effort to clean up some slight errors in the quoted text:

    “And yet something has happened to define conservatism in the minds of Asians as deeply unattractive, despite all the reasons that should naturally lead them to vote for a party that is identified with liberty [to own guns, but little else], opportunity to get ahead [only if you’re already rich], and [considerably worse] economic growth [than when Democrats govern]. I propose that the explanation is simple. Those are not the themes that define the Republican Party in the public mind. Republicans are seen by Asians—as they are by Latinos, blacks, and some large proportion of whites—as the party of Bible-thumping, anti-gay, anti-abortion creationists [because that’s what they are]. Factually, that’s ludicrously inaccurate. In the public mind, except among Republicans [who deny reality], that image is taken for reality”

    There, that’s an improvement.

  6. 6
    Brachiator says:

    Charles Murray is so full of shit that even his full of shitness is full of shit.

    America was the land of opportunity where they could rise in the world.

    Once again, stupid wingnut motherfuckers. Three goddam words.

    Chinese Exclusion Act.

  7. 7
    WarMunchkin says:

    Well, as an American whose parents are immigrants from Asia:

    vote for a party that is identified with liberty, opportunity to get ahead, and economic growth

    That’s why I vote Democrat.

  8. 8
    Joe Max says:

    Oh, and Asian-Americans also value education, especially in the sciences, and the GOP openly embraces anti-science idiots.

    Even their politicians who actually know better are loth to say in public that Adam and Eve didn’t ride dinosaurs.

  9. 9
    Kent says:

    Another factor not mentioned in the discussion.

    Republicans are increasingly becoming a rural party. I’m not sure where but I recall seeing maps that show how the 2012 vote closely correlated with population density.

    Guess where most Asian-Americans live? Hint, it’s not Appalachia or the scrub lands of West Texas. It is cities, especially blue cities like LA, Houston, Seattle, SF, and NYC.

    I expect the Asian-American trend towards voting Democratic has as much to do with WHERE they live as who they are.

  10. 10
    gwangung says:

    America was the land of opportunity where they could rise in the world.

    And Republicans have been determined to take that back and turn America right back into the country they moved from.

    There’s a LARGE non-racial component to this that Republicans just don’t simply see. As a specific, Asian Americans definitely DO see themselves as part of the 47%. All the efforts against immigration, social services (for things like ESL and the like), English Only, etc. reinforce that.

    And they see Republicans as the party of the rich…and as the party against those who want to become rich.

  11. 11
    the Conster says:

    Murray:

    Large numbers of Independents and Democrats who are naturally attracted to arguments of fiscal discipline, less government interference in daily life, greater personal responsibility, and free enterprise refuse to vote for Republicans because they are so put off by the positions and rhetoric of social conservatives, whom they take to represent the spirit of the “real” GOP.

    Republicans are the party of runaway deficit spending, more government interference in women’s health and reproductive decisions and everyone’s marriage decisions, blaming everyone but themselves for their own failures, and crony capitalism and regulatory capture corporatism run amuck. Murray’s just another wingnut living in opposite world.

  12. 12
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    the party of Bible-thumping, anti-gay, anti-abortion creationists. Factually, that’s ludicrously inaccurate.

    Actually, racist fuckwit, it’s spot on. You are factually challenged, again, vile offal.

  13. 13
    J says:

    @Turgidson: Well said, Buck!

  14. 14

    I think Charles Murray has reached the “acceptance” part of his grief over the election. Because he’s right, the Republican Party is not, in fact, identified with liberty, opportunity to get ahead, and economic growth. It IS identified with Bible-thumping, anti-gay, anti-abortion creationists. And he left off a few, too. He forgot misogynist, war-mongering, Muslim-hating, reactionary, fearful …. anything else?

    And speaking of evangelicals, the latest is this $750,000 slick ad campaign for God featuring celebrities talking about their faith. It screams “pathetic rebranding effort.” But maybe that’s just me.

  15. 15
    Citizen Alan says:

    So Murray is just plain wrong about the Republican party nearly everything.

  16. 16
    Jim Pharo says:

    He probably means some other “Republican Party”….only explanation.

  17. 17
    SatanicPanic says:

    This was written by the Bell Curve guy? I am shocked.

  18. 18
    Stooleo says:

    Shorter Charles Murray

    ” we’re not assholes, really we’re not. How could these fucking chinks think we’re assholes”

  19. 19
    gwangung says:

    @the Conster:

    Republicans are the party of runaway deficit spending, more government interference in women’s health and reproductive decisions and everyone’s marriage decisions, blaming everyone but themselves for their own failures, and crony capitalism and regulatory capture corporatism run amuck.

    Sorry to re-emphasize, but this is what a lot of immigrants were escaping when they came to this country. If Republicans weren’t so dead stupid and so enthralled with American exceptionalism, they’d realize that. You really wouldn’t wonder why Asian Americans would vote for folks who’d bring back the shit they were escaping from.

  20. 20
    Goblue72 says:

    Granted I’m a coastal liberal so I travel in liberal social circles, but every Asian-Pacific Islander I know, including my wife, correctly perceives the GOP as the white peoples party.

    They all remember white people calling them goo$, chin$, or ja$ growing up. And the GOP is clearly home for racist white people.

    The math is not that hard. Even white people should be able to do it.

  21. 21
    Higgs Boson's Mate says:

    From the article:

    Many of the Jews who immigrated to America had been socialists, trade-union activists, or otherwise committed to the Left in their native lands, and those family traditions have sometimes perpetuated themselves.

    Nothing like stereotyping in a piece that’s supposed to be refuting a purported stereotype.

  22. 22
    Goblue72 says:

    @gwangung: your average Asian immigrant ran from was bone crushing poverty and war (with the latter often being American bombs) – although maybe that’s what you meant

  23. 23
    Warren Terra says:

    Leaving aside his erroneous claim that the Republicans aren’t really a bunch of backwoods redneck honky bible-beaters, his affirmative claims (“liberty, opportunity to get ahead, and economic growth”) are also nonsense. The data clearly state that economic growth has been better under Democrats than under Republicans (and the most recent Republican administration drove the economy right off a cliff); opportunity to get ahead has been slipping for decades, always worse under Republicans and with specific Republican policies about access to education and about workers’ rights really putting the nails in its coffin; and as to “liberty”, the Republicans want everyone to be free to cower in fear gripping their Bible and their gun, but otherwise not so much.

  24. 24
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Higgs Boson’s Mate:

    Self awareness. Not one of Murray’s strong suits.

  25. 25
    gwangung says:

    @Goblue72: Well, southeast Asians fer sure (but lots of class struggle there with haves vs. have nots); less so for Hong Kong. Chinese and Filipinos definitely a lot of poverty, but not a lot of bombs…

  26. 26
    schrodinger's cat says:

    And yet something has happened to define conservatism in the minds of Asians as deeply unattractive,

    It is not conservatism that is deeply unattractive, it is the Republican Party

    Republicans are seen by Asians—as they are by Latinos, blacks, and some large proportion of whites—as the party of Bible-thumping, anti-gay, anti-abortion creationists. Factually, that’s ludicrously inaccurate

    It is not inaccurate at all. Did he not see the Republican Primary Debates this cycle?

  27. 27
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Warren Terra:

    and as to “liberty”, the Republicans want everyone to be free to cower in fear gripping their Bible and their gun, but otherwise not so much.

    They want the same “liberty” and “freedom” that Horatio Hornblower reveled in as the unquestioned tyrant of one of His Majesty’s Ships during the Napoleonic Wars, said “liberty” and “freedom” being purchased at the cost of the abject servitude of everyone else on the ship.

    These assholes aspire to be feudal lords. Which is why tumbrel rides are the appropriate response in dealing with their ambitions.

  28. 28
    Higgs Boson's Mate says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Actually, racist fuckwit, it’s spot on. You are factually challenged, again, vile offal.

    It’s ludicrously incomplete. In his list of things that the Republican party isn’t, Murray forgot to include; bigoted, xenophobic, union-busting, crony capitalist, divisive, homophobic, hypocritical, nihilistic…

  29. 29
    aimai says:

    @Higgs Boson’s Mate:

    Well, to be fair, its a sterotype that really applies–at least to every Jew I’m related to.

    aimai

  30. 30

    How dare people pay attention to the social conservatives after the GOP consciously chose to bring them under their tent to increase their base? Incontheivable.

  31. 31
    Rafer Janders says:

    despite all the reasons that should naturally lead them to vote for a party that is identified with liberty, opportunity to get ahead, and economic growth. I propose that the explanation is simple. Those are not the themes that define the Republican Party in the public mind.

    Not in the public mind, nor in reality, either. The party of torture, legitimate rape and transvaginal wands can’t really credibly claim to be the party of liberty, and as for opportunity to get ahead and economic growth? Well, let’s just say Second Great Depression and leave it at that.

  32. 32
    Rafer Janders says:

    Republicans are seen by Asians—as they are by Latinos, blacks, and some large proportion of whites—as the party of Bible-thumping, anti-gay, anti-abortion creationists. Factually, that’s ludicrously inaccurate.

    Absolutely. Just ask Rick Santorum.

  33. 33
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    It is not conservatism that is deeply unattractive, it is the Republican Party

    This this this.

    What is called “conservative” nowadays is anything but. They hate, hate, HATE the idea, for example, of energy conservation as one tool in the box of US energy independence. Instead, it’s drill baby, drill…which at best is a short term solution to a long term problem. Not that they can even perceive that much, mind you.

    They are not conservative at all. They’re nihilists.

  34. 34
    Culture of Truth says:

    I’ll say this – he appears to have accurately diagnosed the problem.

  35. 35
    TXSwede says:

    as the party of Bible-thumping, anti-gay, anti-abortion creationists

    As a middle-aged, libertarian-leaning, white guy I am Murray’s target audience, but the ‘perceptions’ he points to are the reasons that I will probably be a Texas Democrat until I move back out of here or die.

    These guys have no idea how badly they have screwed the pooch. And they don’t seem to be able to stop.

  36. 36
    owlbear1 says:

    You silly goose. Republicans aren’t Bigoted Bible-thumpers, they just like to be represented by them.

  37. 37
    Yutsano says:

    @gwangung: Not since WWII anyway, although a lot of Chinese were also escaping Mao and the civil war of 1949 as well.

  38. 38
    Higgs Boson's Mate says:

    @aimai:

    Well, to be fair, its a sterotype that really applies—at least to every Jew I’m related to.

    See? If it wasn’t for that, according to Murray anyway, you’d be a Republican.

  39. 39
    Rafer Janders says:

    And yet something has happened to define conservatism in the minds of Asians as deeply unattractive, despite all the reasons that should naturally lead them to vote for a party that is identified with liberty, opportunity to get ahead, and economic growth.

    Um, Asias already DO vote for the party of liberty, opportunity to get ahead, and economic growth. They vote for the Democrats. So what’s the problem?

  40. 40
    The Red Pen says:

    Is my memory going or is this the third or fourth time this exact article has come up on BJ?

    Here’s an apropos joke that got Sarah Silverman in trouble:

    I was called up for jury duty and I didn’t want to be there all day. My friends told me that if I write something crazy on my application card, they’ll dismiss me right away so I thought I’d write, “I hate chinks.” Then I thought, “I don’t want them to think I’m racist!” so I wrote “I hate Asians” instead.

    Remember, Republicans don’t hate “chinks” and “gooks,” (well, John McCain does) they hate Asians so you see, they’re not racist.

  41. 41
    Roger Moore says:

    @Joe Max:

    Oh, and Asian-Americans also value education, especially in the sciences, and the GOP openly embraces anti-science idiots.

    This. I remember somebody discussing the Asian American swing to the Democrats here in California; their point was that you only had to look at one of the UC campuses to understand why Asian Americans wouldn’t vote for a party that prioritizes tax cuts over funding for education.

  42. 42
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    Et tu, Chu?

  43. 43
    KG says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: not just nihilists, reactionary nihilists… the worst kind of nihilists.

  44. 44
    Culture of Truth says:

    Spent three minutes with tea partier/GOP the other day. Within 90 seconds it was ‘Sanrda Fluke is a slut!’ and ‘acorn!1’ – and this is someone I generally think of as decent person and reasonably intelligent, and with a sense of humor. Granted they were doing it to “get at me” but Fluke is a sore spot for them ,not us, so it was all so stupid. At least “needle” me about monica lewinsky or solyndra or something

    anyway, that’s why the GOP is so unpopular among normal people these days.

  45. 45
    BGinCHI says:

    Shorter Murray: Why do the races, who I am generalizing about as a race, not vote for racists?

  46. 46
    Rathskeller says:

    Dude, cut him some slack. He’s just not good with numbers.

  47. 47
    The Other Chuck says:

    … the party of Bible-thumping, anti-gay, anti-abortion creationists. Factually, that’s ludicrously inaccurate. In the public mind, except among Republicans, that image is taken for reality.

    Looks like someone’s still in the “Denial” stage of grief.

    Oh, and it’s Charles “Bell Curve” Murray. His name should never be spoken without that appellation.

  48. 48
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @The Red Pen: No your memory serves you right. DougJ has brought up this issue before.

  49. 49
    lahru says:

    a tiger cannot change it’s stripes.

    all I see is republicans telling everyone who did not vote with them.

    that they are doing it wrong

  50. 50
    dr. bloor says:

    @Higgs Boson’s Mate: You know what they say, “Latkes is destiny.”

  51. 51
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Culture of Truth:

    The entire “Sandra Fluke is a slut!” meme is so bizarre. It’s not based on what she said, at all, but that doesn’t stop them. They’ve got their marching orders from the fat Nazi pig, and they’re obedient little serfs who do as their fat Nazi pig demands.

  52. 52
    the Conster says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    They are not conservative at all. They’re nihilists.

    Hey, at least it’s an ethos.

  53. 53
    gwangung says:

    … the party of Bible-thumping, anti-gay, anti-abortion creationists. Factually, that’s ludicrously inaccurate. In the public mind, except among Republicans, that image is taken for reality.

    Hm…if everyone around you is saying that about you…maybe there’s something about yourself that you’re missing…

  54. 54
    Corner Store Operator says:

    “…is identified with liberty, opportunity to get ahead, and economic growth.”

    You don’t get to just say that like its a fact. Not one of those things is empirically true.

    It really would be like being totally flummoxed that all libertarians don’t vote for Democrats. After all we’re the party of choice.

  55. 55
    Culture of Truth says:

    Shorter Murray:

    “Not many people know this, but the Republican party is very popular.”

  56. 56
    RSA says:

    Remembering how Republican nominees for President deal with quotes, I’m happy to know that Charles Murray believes,

    Republicans are… the party of Bible-thumping, anti-gay, anti-abortion creationists. Factually.

    I’m glad that’s settled.

  57. 57
    👽 Martin says:

    Uh, this can be measured:

    How many jobs vs abortion vs voter restrictions vs civil rights bills have state republican legislatures passed?
    How many have been passed in the US House of Representatives, GOP controlled?

    Policy is the best measure of what your party stands for, and the last 2 years seem to tell us that the GOP is the party of everything he says is wildly inaccurate.

  58. 58
    Baud says:

    And yet something has happened to define conservatism in the minds of Asians as deeply unattractive, despite all the reasons that should naturally lead them to vote for a party that is identified with liberty, opportunity to get ahead, and economic growth.

    Assuming for the sake of argument that this is an accurate description of the current GOP, why would Asians be more inclined to vote GOP than any other minority group? Does Murray think that African Americans or Latinos don’t look for this quality in selecting a political party to support. Why single out Asians?

    Yes, these are all rhetorical questions.

  59. 59
    trex says:

    Here’s the comment I posted to Murray’s article that will never likely emerge from moderation. I opened with TBogg’s synopsis of Murray’s argument and continued:

    “The very framing of the conversation tips your hand. And trying to pretend that the leaders and spokespersons of the Republican party aren’t reactionary crazies? OK, put together a list of those who will admit the true age of the earth or that CO2 is heating the atmosphere. You would be hard pressed even a handful who would go on record admitting.

    Liberty? You’ve got to be kidding me? How about the liberty to marry someone of the same sex or determine the course of one’s own pregnancy or to have access to birth control in one’s health plan? Or even just to have access to basic health insurance? Or the liberty to build a mosque in Manhattan or Kentucky? To vote without a constant barrage of obstacles? How about the liberty to bargain collectively for fair wages and benefits in order to [be the party of] “get[ing] ahead”?

    All of the Republican initiatives at the state and federal levels over the past decade and half-decade in particular have proven the party to be reactionary, nativist, anti-science, anti-privacy and anti-liberty. You may as well own it. The funny thing is that contra this article, Republicans keep moving further even in this direction, ostensibly to find success eventually in some “true” or pure form of arch-conservatism.

    If you want to appeal to Asians, you need to be honest about your aims and philosophy and bias. Calling everything “liberty” when it is not is transparently silly. It might work with the rubes who are easily swayed by charged symbolism but it does nothing for a thinking crowd.

    Don’t get me wrong: please do proceed just as you have been. The unconscious racism combined with cultural initiatives straight out of the 1860’s could not make me, as a liberal, any more hopeful towards the long-term prospects of political change. Carry on!”

  60. 60
  61. 61
    FormerSwingVoter says:

    party that is identified with liberty

    PROTIP: If you want people who aren’t you to identify you with liberty, respect their fucking rights, you worthless sack of horse shit.

    You can’t go out of your way to restrict labor rights, womens’ rights, and even fucking voting rights, and then claim to be the party of liberty. That’s the opposite of liberty. That’s un-fucking-liberty, you jackass.

    I am sick and fucking tired of the conservatives in this country shrieking FREEDOM as they stomp on the faces of everyone around them.

  62. 62
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Culture of Truth:

    Sorta counter-intuitive, is it not? But, gosh, if Charles Murray says it, well, you have to stop and cogitate for a bit and then come to the conclusion that the correct counter question is “Chuck, what color is the sky in your world?”

  63. 63
    MikeJ says:

    @The Red Pen: I thought the punchline was, “I love chinks.”

  64. 64
    Rafer Janders says:

    As a CaucAsian, I am deeply offended….

  65. 65
    Culture of Truth says:

    @Corner Store Operator: Indeed, it’s a curious turn of phrase. He doesn’t say the GOP IS the party of liberty, opportunity to get ahead, and economic growth — because of course it isn’t and there’s no evidence for it — instead he says it is “IDENTIFIED WITH liberty, opportunity to get ahead, and economic growth,” and then turns around and says “Those are not the themes that define the Republican Party in the public mind.”

    It’s like watching an amphibian struggle to develop legs and walk on land. Soooo close….

  66. 66
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @Baud: I have heard the same thing about Latinos, since they are religious why don’t they vote for Republicans.

  67. 67
    scav says:

    The GOP doesn’t need to get all of the Latino vote, just its fair share. That’s true, and I should have made my point clearer.

    Consider the sense of entitlement, the sense of people as objects that can be allocated and deserved that undergirds that world view.

  68. 68
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    Sorry, Charlie…but only the least distasteful Rethug apologists get to be star-kist.

  69. 69
    DPS says:

    Why do Asians stubbornly refuse to adopt Charles Murray’s incorrect views about his party’s views?

  70. 70
    Culture of Truth says:

    Is it true Charles Murray is writing a children’s book about Kwanzaa?

  71. 71
    redshirt says:

    Charles Murray is one of their “academics”, right?

    Makes sense he’d be totally wrong.

  72. 72
    Baud says:

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    I’ve heard that too, and have heard that reasoning applied to blacks also.

  73. 73
    Mike in NC says:

    The American Enterprise Institute is like Heritage Foundation Lite. Assholes all.

  74. 74
    Don K says:

    Where to start?

    A few days after the election my partner had an appointment with a doctor who is from south Asia. We chatted for a bit about the election, and she said, “It’s really very simple. Republicans just really don’t like brown-skinned people.”

    Add to that gays and women who actually enjoy sex, and you’ve pretty much covered it.

  75. 75
    schrodinger's cat says:

    Asians, and immigrants in general have seen the demonization of illegal immigrants, once the illegal immigrants have been “convinced” to self-deport, who do you think is next? Legal immigrants without the correct pigmentation will be the next on GOP’s long list of hate. At some level people can just feel it in their bones when they are hated and not considered human enough.

  76. 76
    Arclite says:

    Factually, Charles Murray is ludicrously inaccurate.

  77. 77
    Rafer Janders says:

    In the public mind, except among Republicans, that image is taken for reality.

    Look, if everybody thinks you’re a jerk, face it…you may be a jerk.

  78. 78
    Goblue72 says:

    @gwangung: Sorry – I meant and/or rather than both.

  79. 79
    BGinCHI says:

    Murray is rightly amazed that Asians refuse to act like uneducated white southerners.

  80. 80
    Bill Arnold says:

    Off topic, PKrugman just used the following in a blog posting:

    I’m going to cross my fingers and hope that this is just a case of creeping Broderism,

    edit: hah, the term dates back to at least 2005

  81. 81
    Todd Dugdale says:

    Even if Murray’s ‘facts’ were correct, it wouldn’t diminish the impressions formed by Asians’ real life, personal contacts with the Republican base. It’s hardly a stretch to describe the wingnut, FNC-soaked, Republican base as a subculture. The peril for every subculture is that it strongly risks being defined by their worst elements.

    It’s hardly unlikely that Asians do not have wingnut uncles forwarding them crazy screeds, or co-workers that parrot Fox News, Glenn Beck, or Bryan Fischer. They’ve learned how to nod and make non-committal responses to hysterical, hyperbolic, and vicious rants. Engaging these people is pointless, and we’ve all learned that.

    Unless you accept the wingnut world-view, you are simply not credible to that subculture. You are either a clueless dupe or you have some dark agenda. There is no longer any way to rationally or constructively communicate with the Republican base. Complete, enthusiastic agreement is the only acceptable response. Anything less marks you as suspicious and/or ‘the enemy’.

    This goes beyond any kind of “image problem”. It’s a communication problem. Republicans have essentially given up on talking to anyone of their subculture. It’s easier to tell themselves that there are far more of their “own” than there appears to be. In the Republicans’ mind, it’s the media’s job to change the minds of the unwashed masses; they merely have a responsibility to welcome the newly-converted and teach them the mysterious ways of the subculture.

  82. 82
    AA+ Bonds says:

    Republicans are seen by Asians—as they are by Latinos, blacks, and some large proportion of whites—as the party of Bible-thumping, anti-gay, anti-abortion creationists. Factually, that’s ludicrously inaccurate.

    The problem is that Asian-Americans see the Republican Party as the party of Charles Murray. Which it is.

  83. 83
    jamick6000 says:

    DUDE has anybody seen this yet? It’s a FishbowlDC “Separated at birth” involving ace Breitbart “reporter” Matthew Boyle:

    http://www.mediabistro.com/fis.....ott_b91184

  84. 84
    Culture of Truth says:

    One possibility is that Asian and other voters see the GOP as racist and so vote for Democrats, while white men see the GOP and offering opportunity for all, and vote Republican.

    Another is that Asian and other voters the Democrats as offering opportunity, and see the GOP as incomptent and beholden only wealthy donors, rich individuals and corporations, while it is white men see the Republican party as racist, and therefore vote for Republicans.

    I imagine this thought had not occurred to Murray, though as I noted, he’s getting closer…

  85. 85
    The Golux says:

    It’s just astonishing how self-unaware these clowns are. They continue to believe that the problem is that they haven’t been artful enough in selling their lump of shit, rather than what they are selling is a lump of shit.

    Better turd-polishing. Yeah, that’s the ticket!

  86. 86
    Culture of Truth says:

    of course both can be true, and more. just throwing it out there.

  87. 87
    gwangung says:

    @Goblue72: Ah! Yeah, the and/or makes a difference….lots of shit happens….

  88. 88
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @The Golux:

    I’m reminded of this bit from President Andrew Shepherd’s (Michael Douglas) press conference monologue from The American President:

    I’ve known Bob Rumson for years, and I’ve been operating under the assumption that the reason Bob devotes so much time and energy to shouting at the rain was that he simply didn’t get it. Well, I was wrong. Bob’s problem isn’t that he doesn’t get it. Bob’s problem is that he can’t sell it!

  89. 89
    The Golux says:

    FYWP — That was supposed to be:

    Better turd-polishing. Yeah, that’s the ticket!

  90. 90
    PurpleGirl says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: Add anyone who doesn’t speak/read English.

    One of the political fights in areas of Queens (for example, Flushing’s Main Street) is store signage not being in English but any one of several Asian languages. Republican politicians have been hell bent to stop foreign language signage. Recent winners in NYC local elections have been Chinese immigrants who became Democrats.

  91. 91
    Tony J says:

    @FormerSwingVoter:

    I am sick and fucking tired of the conservatives in this country shrieking FREEDOM as they stomp on the faces of everyone around them.

    Someone wrote a book or ten about that.

    And boy, an awful lot of alt-history loving wingnuts really don’t like him for it. Can’t think why.

  92. 92
    El Cid says:

    __

    a party that is identified with liberty, opportunity to get ahead, and economic growth

    These people always believe their own press releases.

  93. 93
    Roy G. says:

    What’s the drug dealer’s number one rule? Don’t get high on your own supply.

    Like the rest of his party, Mr. Murray appears to have been hitting the Conserva-Crack Pipe a leetle too hard. Time to put down the bong, old timer!

  94. 94
    gwangung says:

    @PurpleGirl:

    One of the political fights in areas of Queens (for example, Flushing’s Main Street) is store signage not being in English but any one of several Asian languages. Republican politicians have been hell bent to stop foreign language signage. Recent winners in NYC local elections have been Chinese immigrants who became Democrats.

    And the irony is that these folks really, really, really want to learn English and they for sure want their kids to learn English….

    But to flat out tell them NOT to use their own language? Well screw them. We’ll get to English on our own sweet time, on OUR schedule, not yours.

  95. 95
    danielx says:

    @Higgs Boson’s Mate:

    Factually, that’s ludicrously inaccurate. In the public mind, except among Republicans, that image is taken for reality. Republicans are seen by Asians—as they are by Latinos, blacks, and some large proportion of whites—as the party of Bible-thumping, anti-gay, anti-abortion (bigoted, xenophobic, union-busting, crony capitalist, divisive, homophobic, hypocritical, nihilistic, gun-waving, fuckwit) creationists.

    How could this have happened?

    Well, Chuckles, listening to any Rush Limbaugh broadcast or judging the participants and audiences in the recent Republican primary debates (remember those?), it’s an amazingly accurate perception. Those Asians are really smart people, aren’t they?

  96. 96
    Sm*t Cl*de says:

    a party that is identified with liberty, opportunity to get ahead, and economic growth

    Apparently “identifying” one’s brand with Nice Things is no longer enough. Who could have known?

  97. 97
    mai naem says:

    I know a lot of Asians IRL. Chinese, Taiwanese, Thai, Japanese, Indians, Pakistanis, Nepalis,Bangladeshis and Koreans. The only ones who care about the social issues are 3 Koreans. Nobody else gives a crap about gay rights and abortion. Their attitudes are generally to each his own. Most of them come from poor countries with poor infrastructure with corrupt governmental systems. These are the people who appreciate that you don’t have to bribe the clerk at the DMV to get your drivers license or bribe the cop to get out of a traffic ticket. With a lot of work and a little luck, your kid can make it to a top flight college. Most of them realize taxes are the annual cost of admission to the USA unlike the republicans who think taxes are a massive burden.

  98. 98
    Onihanzo says:

    @gwangung: The blatant (and fucking sadistic) xenophobia of the ‘won’t learn English’ conservative myth always makes my blood boil. It’s been proven, time and again, that first gen immigrants to the US have a more difficult time adjusting to English (naturally, as it’s not their language of birth) but that their children almost always EXCEL at bilingualism. By the third gen, it might prove difficult to even find grandkids able to speak the old language.

    It’s the same brickbat that Irish immigrants, Italian immigrants and any number of old Europe immigrants were beaten with. We should be ashamed, as a nation, of how we still treat new arrivals.

  99. 99
    feebog says:

    Republicans are seen by Asians—as they are by Latinos, blacks, and some large proportion of whites—as the party of Bible-thumping, anti-gay, anti-abortion creationists.

    Mr. Murray must assume that Asians were not watching the Republican primary debates. Santorum, Cain, Bachman, Perry and Paul are the very defintion of Bible thumping, anti-gay, anti-abortion creationists. Of course Newt is simply a grifter. And even though rMoney may not meet the defintion, he was compelled to tack to right of these loons during the debates. When five of seven most recent Presidential candidates meet the definition you have already lost the argument.

  100. 100
    Joel says:

    @Southern Beale: Tim Tebow couldn’t be bugged to do one of these?

  101. 101
    gwangung says:

    @Onihanzo: Yup. You’re not the only one.

    @mai naem: Yup. Double to this. Again, Republicans don’t realize that what they’re standing for looks an awful lot like what Asians and Latinos were escaping FROM.

  102. 102
    gwangung says:

    @Onihanzo: Yup. You’re not the only one.

    @mai naem: Yup. Double to this. Again, Republicans don’t realize that what they’re standing for looks an awful lot like what Asians and Latinos were escaping FROM.

  103. 103
    Keith says:

    Guess Mr. Murray missed Rush Limbaugh’s ‘ching chang chong’ speech on the radio. Lots of Asians heard about it, though.

  104. 104
    Linda Featheringill says:

    Murray:

    Republicans are seen by Asians—as they are by Latinos, blacks, and some large proportion of whites—as the party of Bible-thumping, anti-gay, anti-abortion creationists.

    Those groups named as having a negative opinion of Republicans, what percentage of the US do they make up? Off hand, I’d say 51% and increasing.

  105. 105
    gwangung says:

    @Keith:

    Guess Mr. Murray missed Rush Limbaugh’s ‘ching chang chong’ speech on the radio. Lots of Asians heard about it, though.

    I think a lot of Republicans don’t get this. If a prominent figure on your side does a racial slur, you’d better ostracize him, criticize him and make him do an apology. Don’t lionize him or give him any respect.

    Because if you still look up to him, the folks being slurred are gonna figure that you’re OK with slurring people, too…

  106. 106
    Joe Buck says:

    Let me get this straight. This is the guy who publishes pseudo-scientific books about how whites are genetically superior and blacks and Latinos are allegedly less intelligent (The Bell Curve, etc), and he’s having a sad because Asians think (accurately) that his party is racist, or at least, consciously appeals to racists?

    He would probably answer that he thinks Asians are genetically superior too, so they should join the overlord party.

  107. 107
    👽 Martin says:

    @gwangung:

    I think a lot of Republicans don’t get this. If a prominent figure on your side does a racial slur, you’d better ostracize him, criticize him and make him do an apology. Don’t lionize him or give him any respect.

    They want to have it both ways – Rush is both a powerful voice to get the conservative message out and build loyalty to the party, and an entertainer like Jon Stewart that should be ignored.

    They don’t understand that Stewart has zero influence on those running for office and those in office or on policy. Colbert has so much influence that Nancy Smash forbid her caucus from going on his show for a year. So yes, when we say to ignore those two as they’re entertainers it’s true – they really are.

    But legislators cow-tow to Rush all the time. They shape policy around him and repeat his assertions frequently. He can’t be dismissed as an entertainer in those cases, and it’s impossible to determine when he’s speaking for the party and when he’s just some asshole, so we’re not wrong to always treat him as a spokesperson for the party.

  108. 108
    g says:

    Wah. The folks who traffic in negative stereotypes are sad that the people they stereotype have a stereotypical negative view of them.

  109. 109
    Onihanzo says:

    @Keith: Wow. Just…. wow.

    I totally missed that one.

  110. 110
    trollhattan says:

    “Murray”? Typical fucking mick, also, too. Go back to potatoland, ye gobshite!

    Also, also, too, I see your problem right here.

    Factually, that’s ludicrously inaccurate. In the public mind, except among Republicans, that image is taken for reality.

    If your neighbors all tell you your house is on fire, but you haven’t smelled smoke, do you tell them to piss off and slam the door in their faces? Trick question.

  111. 111
    Keith G says:

    Who is Charles Murray? Why would anyone care?

  112. 112
    El Cid says:

    He’s hurt because he assumed that Asians would join him in seeing blacks and browns as inferior because all his racial IQ hackery praised Asians for being even smarter than whites.

    Rejected by his own ideal group.

  113. 113
    Ivan Ivanovich Renko says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: Gotta differ with you on that. Movement conservatism is all about white superiority and white supremacy.

  114. 114
    Ivan Ivanovich Renko says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: Gotta differ with you on that. Movement conservatism is all about white superiority and white supremacy.

  115. 115
    Ivan Ivanovich Renko says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: Gotta differ with you on that. Movement conservatism is all about white superiority and white supremacy.

  116. 116
    Forum Transmitted Disease says:

    Republicans are seen by Asians—as they are by Latinos, blacks, and some large proportion of whites—as the party of Bible-thumping, anti-gay, anti-abortion creationists. Factually, that’s ludicrously inaccurate.

    Link, plz.

    Looks like nuthin’ but fact from where I sit, white guy that I am.

  117. 117
    Suffern ACE says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: well that was just a show to impress the rubes. The REAL Republican Party is quite different, or so they tell me. Although to be honest the guys who tell me that are kind of dickish, and offer no reason to believe them.

  118. 118
    gex says:

    @Joe Buck: Indeed he did. He found Asians to be smarter than Caucasions, and uses that to defend himself from charges of racism. Because he just doesn’t fucking get it. He cannot for the life of him figure out why lumping together a lot of us individuals with some common features and telling us what we are like and what we should do sounds racist to us.

    Brown people aren’t lesser anymore. We’re just supposed to shut up and listen, then do what they say.

    ETA: I suppose, since Asians and Hispanics are being invited into the “white” club, I should call myself off-white and not brown.

  119. 119
    Narcissus says:

    This reminds me of Derbyshire and his Arctic Alliance

  120. 120
    Tehanu says:

    Republicans are seen by Asians—as they are by Latinos, blacks, and some large proportion of whites—as the party of Bible-thumping, anti-gay, anti-abortion creationists. Factually, that’s ludicrously inaccurate.

    So … how many Bible-thumping, anti-gay, anti-abortion creationists are Democrats? Just wondering, Chuckles.

  121. 121
    Joe Max says:

    @gex: Congratulations! It’s like how they decided that Jews are actually honorary White People™. Don’t you feel flattered?

    But it hasn’t been working too well, really. Obama still got, what, 70% of the Jewish vote? I don’t expect the wingnuts will do even that well with their new buddies the Off-Browns™.

  122. 122
    Fort Geek says:

    Hey, Chuckie: we non-Republicans don’t have an attitude problem, you just have a being an asshole problem.

  123. 123
    jefft452 says:

    “a party that is identified with liberty, opportunity to get ahead, and economic growth. … Those are not the themes that define the Republican Party in the public mind”

    For a group that insist that immigrants learn English, you would think that they would want a native speaker to understand it enough to see the contradiction in those two statements

    In short, to paraphrase John Sununu, why cant Charles Murray learn to be an American

  124. 124
    Mike G says:

    “Republicans are seen by Asians—as they are by Latinos, blacks, and some large proportion of whites—as the party of
    Bible-thumping (50% of Republican primary and caucus voters have been white evangelical, or born again, Christians — CBS poll)
    anti-gay (70% of Republicans oppose gay marriage — Pew Research)
    anti-abortion (72% of Republicans “pro-life” — Gallup poll)
    creationists (58% of Republicans believe that God created humans in their present form within the last 10,000 years – Gallup poll)

    Factually, that’s ludicrously inaccurate”.

    Charles Murray seems to have as much trouble as the Rmoney campaign grifters with librul concepts like “statistics”.

  125. 125
    Me says:

    “Asians who became successful because everyone in the family worked two or three jobs (a common strategy behind Asian success) are likely to be offended by the liberal “You didn’t build that” mentality.” And here we see that Mr. Murray is so intellectually lazy and/or dishonest that he genuinely does not distinguish between the out-of-context attack ads centering around that phrase, and the actual statement in context. The antecedent of the word ‘that’ in the referenced statement was the infrastructure that enabled a successful business to become successful, not the business itself. In that context, Mr. Murray’s claim shows exactly why Asians would be likely Democrats instead of Republicans – because “everyone in the family” worked together to achieve common success, a Democratic theme opposed to the you’re-on-your-own-ism of Republicans. If Mr. Murray was intellectually honest, he would rely on actual arguments instead of recycling known-false attack ads.

  126. 126
    Ken J. says:

    From his view of the Republican party, I can only assume that Charles Murray took a nap which began somewhere in the Nixon-Ford years and he has only now awakened.

    Either that, or he doesn’t get out much.

  127. 127
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @Ivan Ivanovich Renko: I don’t disagree, I meant the English meaning of the term. The current Republican party is nihilist and selfish rather than conservative.

Comments are closed.