Fuck the Snark

Really peeps? We’re gonna wallow in shallow pleasure of making fun of Mittens and Orange Julius?

The Republicans are clowns. Destructive, dangerous, mendacious clowns. But, clowns nonetheless. And while it is easy to see them as the problem, they really aren’t. They are just deluded and scared, greedy and ignorant.

Here’s the reality: Our country is being torn apart by income inequality. We’re one of the richest countries in the world, and yet we can’t afford to provide health care to our citizens because our health care system is twice as expensive as anyone else’s. We’re an unparalleled force for good in the world, and yet our engagement in the world in fraught due to bad choices and ill-considered commitments. We spend huge amounts on education and yet our educational system is problematic at best.

We have, in office, just an amazing, inspiring president. We have four years more  to make a difference. The first four have been pretty damn good, and the next four can be historic. But victory isn’t about kicking the GOP in the teeth — as fun as that might be — but in making a real difference in the lives of our fellow citizens.

I know you all know all of this. I am preaching to the choir. But, I guess, I want to encourage all of us to aim higher now — myself included. It is so easy, so tempting to just focus on tactical victories against the Republicans. And yet, I think we live in a historic moment. Let’s not squander it.

When I think of this, I can’t help but go back to 2008… to Obama concession speech in New Hampshire. It is is a speech that, I think, deserves to be remembered with the great political addresses in our history. A speech that is moving and realistic, intelligent and inspiring.

Anyway, can you guess, I’ve had a few… but that said… consider this a Friday night music thread:

Yes. We. Can.

The speech:

The video:

Share On Facebook
Share On Twitter
Share On Google Plus
Share On Pinterest
Share On Reddit

162 replies
  1. 1
    Keith says:

    consider this a Friday night music thread

    More like a Friday night Daddy Lecture Thread. You have a problem with the post about Mitt, take it up with ABL; it’s a BJ post, so it invites comments (literally).

  2. 2
    Xecky Gilchrist says:

    Don’t feed the troll!

  3. 3
    Jewish Steel says:

    The only two things that motivate me and that matter to me are revenge and guilt. — Elvis Costello

  4. 4
    redshirt says:

    Fuck that. I’ll never stop snarking. Snark till you die all.

  5. 5
    Raven says:

    “If you love anything about competitive sports, anything at all, you had to love this game. “That was a great football game by both teams, and they could have won today the same as us,” said Nick Saban, the hard-driving Alabama coach. “It came down to the last play.”

  6. 6
    redshirt says:

    Also, seriously: Figuratively, we need to curb-stomp the Republican party. There’s no single more important thing we could for the betterment of America and the world. Dems need to go on the attack and stay on the attack, relentlessly, against everything the Republican party stands for, and the Party itself. Only when they’re dead in the ground (metaphorically!) can we as a nation and a world grow the fuck up, move on, and solve our problems using reason and logic.

  7. 7
    efgoldman says:

    The Republicans are clowns. Destructive, dangerous, mendacious clowns. But, clowns nonetheless. And while it is easy to see them as the problem, they really aren’t. They are just deluded and scared, greedy and ignorant.

    Dismiss them at our peril. They are all that you say they are. They are also the majority in the House of Representatives, and likely to be for the balance of Obama’s term (that’s what sweeping in a census/redistricting year will do for you). The TeaHadis still control the governorships and legislatures in an alarming number of states, many with veto-proof majorities. They are quite willing to burn down the house and take the state or country with it. And while many rear-guard actions are being fought, and won, in the courts, the ultimate court is inclined to let TeaHadis run wild.
    There’s an awful lot of mischief, and an awful lot of real damage, left for the GOBP to do.

  8. 8
    Roger Moore says:

    But victory isn’t about kicking the GOP in the teeth—as fun as that might be—but in making a real difference in the lives of our fellow citizens.

    And how do you propose we make a difference in our fellow citizens’ lives without kicking the Republicans in the teeth? Every time we try to improve things, the Republicans fight it kicking and screaming. Maybe we shouldn’t kick them in the teeth just to watch them scream, but there’s going to be a lot of ugly with every success.

  9. 9
    Gin & Tonic says:

    A slightly belated Friday night music thread, then. I just hope you haven’t been tying one on since Friday night and lost track.

  10. 10
    Schlemizel says:

    As soon as you can tell me why I can’t have that progress and all my snark we can discuss it. If you are going to suggest that snark might prevent those fine fellows of the GOP from cooperating in our pathetic attempts to undo the damage they have done I’d suggest you should wear a cup for that exchange.

  11. 11
    bk says:

    Yeah, but ordering Thanksgiving dinner from Boston Market???

  12. 12
    redshirt says:

    Great thread Bernie! Lots of lines in the water. I agree 100% about Barack though. I’ve never sincerely loved a politician before, but I sincerely love Obama. I’m well versed in history and feel damn lucky to be living in this age, which might be the most incredible of all of human history, and right there in the mix for most incredible is Barack Hussein Obama.

  13. 13
    General Stuck says:

    But victory isn’t about kicking the GOP in the teeth—as fun as that might be—but in making a real difference in the lives of our fellow citizens.

    I agree with the lameness of gratuitous wingnut bashing, and one of the reasons I haven’t visited Sadly No for years. But that does not mean mockery of more substantial issues of basic ideology and dangerous world views of the GOP should not be deployed at every opportunity. And humans are the creatures that carry details of right wing bullshit into policy, as reps of that kind of thinking. I don’t much care for shallow mocking of a MCcardle for her clownish antics, because she is not an intellectual heavyweight, or even a viable courier of conservatism.

    I also agree with your primary problem with this country, being income inequality, that has been case for years. It is a cancerous situation that moves a country toward instability and all sorts of bad shit flowing from it.

    The political coin of the realm in this country and democracies in general, is credibility. Anything that can discredit the general conservative mindset should be done, imo. But cheap thrill bashing of idiots on the right that is not tied to bankrupt RW philosophy, can well turn the discredit back on us. Though it can be a distraction from the very bored.

  14. 14
    jl says:

    What, we are not supposed to enjoy crushing our enemies, seeing them driven before us, and hearing the lamentations of their consultants?

    Edit: and to be honest, I luuurrrvvv hearing the lamentations of their consultants. That is way fun.

  15. 15
    BGinCHI says:

    Jesus BF:

    We spend huge amounts on education and yet our educational system is problematic at best.

    This must be the liquor talking, because that is one gigantic dumbass of a sentence.

    That’s like saying, “when I was a kid you could really get a good candy bar for a quarter.”

    It’s so fact free and dumb you can’t even analyze it. It’s what a GOP stalwart would say.

  16. 16
    jharp says:

    Still watching Obama’s speech.

    Cool. Thanks for posting. He is amazing.

  17. 17
    CW in LA says:

    Really peeps? We’re gonna wallow in shallow pleasure of making fun of Mittens and Orange Julius?

    Um…

    Is this a trick question?

  18. 18
    El Cid says:

    Why the fuck is this appearing at a blog called “Balloon Juice” instead of some more sober forum?

    Who the fuck imagines this place to be representative of the highest aspirations of sober liberal and Democratic organizing?

    What the fuck enters into peoples’ heads?

  19. 19
    jl says:

    @CW in LA: I didn’t realize there was a question. I thought it was snark. Did I miss something?

    @El Cid: I thought it was snark. This IS Balloon-Juice, after all.

  20. 20
    JustAnotherBob says:

    How about we simply ignore the Republicans as much as possible and get the folks who struggle to start talking about a living wage?

    Why should someone who is willing to work an honest 40 hour week have to live in substandard housing and not have enough to eat? Especially when the top end hired labor is making millions of dollars per year?

    Maybe it’s time to reinvent the labor union.

  21. 21
    Biff Longbotham says:

    Dude, what’s that liquor you’re swilling? I want some of it!

  22. 22
    redshirt says:

    I’ll stop snarking when you pry the snark out of my cold, dead hands. Snarky4Lyfe.

  23. 23
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @redshirt:

    Great thread Bernie! Lots of lines in the water. I agree 100% about Barack though. I’ve never sincerely loved a politician before, but I sincerely love Obama. I’m well versed in history and feel damn lucky to be living in this age, which might be the most incredible of all of human history, and right there in the mix for most incredible is Barack Hussein Obama.

    THIS is the OBOT EVENT HORIZON.

    You may all go home now.

  24. 24
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @BGinCHI: Well, when I was a kid, you could get a candy bar for a nickel. So there.

  25. 25
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @El Cid:

    Who the fuck imagines this place to be representative of the highest aspirations of sober liberal and Democratic organizing?

    Hmmm…ever read Kay’s posts? Or those of the Obot front pager who was out harrassing people to vote?

    Where have you been?

  26. 26
    kdaug says:

    Kishi Bashi

    Earworm for the last 48h or so

  27. 27
    some guy says:

    President Kill List: Best President or Bestest Human Being Evah?

  28. 28
    Bruce S says:

    Uh…some music.

    Iris Dement, “Sing the Delta”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UlfgWeNRKw

  29. 29
    piratedan says:

    since its an open music thread…. here’s something working class, cautiously optimistic that kind of embodies my own hopes… written by the Boss and sung by Ms. Bad Reputation

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HibE5KIVxBs

  30. 30
    El Cid says:

    @Ted & Hellen: Right, yet, there’s no contradiction. How do you see that there is one?

    Is there no difference between (a) posting a variety of things on a web blog known for a degree of snark and silliness which apparently is related to why many people read it, including sober stuff, and (b) continually expressing shock that people are failing to take this mixed blog seriously enough and often posting silliness?

    Is that somehow confusing to you?

    People can do whatever they want. And write whatever they want.

  31. 31
    Bago says:

    .5 miles away.

  32. 32
    Roger Moore says:

    @Gin & Tonic:
    When I was a kid, our computer didn’t have a hard drive. It didn’t even have floppies. All we had was an unreliable tape drive that used audio tapes, so you had to make about 10 copies of anything if you wanted to have a prayer of keeping it. And if you really wanted it to be safe, you had to put it on paper, which required you to write it down longhand because we didn’t have a printer. But we were happy, because most people didn’t even have computers…

    ETA: And get off my lawn, you damn kids!

  33. 33
    efgoldman says:

    @JustAnotherBob:

    How about we simply ignore the Republicans as much as possible and get the folks who struggle to start talking about a living wage?

    See my post at #7 above. They can and will fuck the country up to a fare-thee-well if allowed to. Their “ideas” are truly mockable (except the ones that are too horrible to contemplate, and which they will still implement whenever and wherever possible at the state level).

  34. 34
    jl says:

    GOTV is not the highest aspirations of sober liberal and Democratic organizing. That is just G-damned smash ’em in the face organizing. The kind that works.

    Edit: “smash ’em in the face” in the most civil and appropriately electoral and democratic way, of course.

  35. 35
    YellowJournalism says:

    @El Cid: Anne Romney advocated for scrapping the entire education system and blamed teachers/unions for all of the problems, so I don’t begrudge anyone a chance to swim in her tears. However, I get that we can’t just sit back and nibble on schadenfreude sandwiches while waiting for the next election.

  36. 36
  37. 37
    Maude says:

    @General Stuck:
    The battle is about the Bush tax cuts now. If the Republicans are defeated in this, it will go a long way to undoing more damage that they have done to this country.
    We can ridicule them when they lose.
    We are in trouble with the income disparity. Wall Street is very unhappy with Obama. they are afraid that the free ride is over.
    As for music? It’s the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine.

  38. 38
    Schlemizel says:

    @BGinCHI:

    More than that is is not a true statement.
    ADJUSTED FOR INFLATION WE SPEND HALF OF WHAT WE DID PER PUPIL IN 1978

    That is a true statement. Despite the increase in poverty and joblessness that we KNOW causes poorer school results we spend less per student now than at any time in the last 30+ years.

    ADJUSTED FOR INFLATION WE SPEND HALF OF WHAT WE DID PER PUPIL IN 1978
    ADJUSTED FOR INFLATION WE SPEND HALF OF WHAT WE DID PER PUPIL IN 1978
    ADJUSTED FOR INFLATION WE SPEND HALF OF WHAT WE DID PER PUPIL IN 1978
    ADJUSTED FOR INFLATION WE SPEND HALF OF WHAT WE DID PER PUPIL IN 1978

    And when people on our side don’t know that but gladly buy into the bullshit of the right they add to the problems of our educational system. But as long as we don’t get snarky I’m sure its all for the best.

  39. 39
    CW in LA says:

    Also, too: REPEAL THE 22ND AMENDMENT!!

    And as long as I’m gloating: Los Angeles Galaxy, MLS Champions! Eat it, people who would’ve preferred that not happen!

  40. 40
    Bruce S says:

    “nibble on schadenfreude sandwiches”

    Yum…and, of course, one of those dishes best eaten cold.

  41. 41
    redshirt says:

    @Ted & Hellen: I’d wax more poetic, if I could. Nobel Peace Prize winner, two term President, awesome jump shot, accomplished nerd. Choom Gang, Represent!

  42. 42
    arguingwithsignposts says:

    @El Cid: Forget it El, it’s Special Timmeh,

  43. 43
    efgoldman says:

    @Roger Moore:

    When I was a kid, our computer didn’t have a hard drive. It didn’t even have floppies. All we had was an unreliable tape drive that used audio tapes, so you had to make about 10 copies of anything if you wanted to have a prayer of keeping it. And if you really wanted it to be safe, you had to put it on paper, which required you to write it down longhand because we didn’t have a printer. But we were happy, because most people didn’t even have computers…

    When I was a kid, there weren’t computers, until the 1960 election, when they used this thing called “Univac” to tally the votes. My cousin who went to MIT, and my uncle who worked for Raytheon, carried slide rules, but I never learned how to use one.
    I was 40 when we got our first computer, an Atari 65XE, two outboard floppies (that’s why we didn’t get the Commodore – I didn’t want a tape drive).

  44. 44
    Schlemizel says:

    @CW in LA:

    All six or 7 people who cared? 8-{D

  45. 45
    Rhubarb says:

    @Ted & Hellen–I know I shouldn’t respond to you, but I can no longer forbear (and no, there’s not an “e” in the middle)to say what an utterly small-minded and obnoxious poison toad you are.

  46. 46
    kasnarski says:

    O/T but just saw ‘Flight’

    What a waste of $7

  47. 47
    some guy says:

    @Schlemizel:

    with a decreasing percentage going to actual instruction and a larger percentage going to administration

  48. 48
    jl says:

    @efgoldman:

    Ha, when I was in HS, paper punch tape was old school. But we had an old broken down ‘puter in the corner that used it. And we had piles and piles of tape.

    That stuff had a lot of creative and innovative uses when it wore out around the HS. That got us to programming, let me tell you. We made a computer tape mummy for the Halloween party. That was fun.

  49. 49
    jacy says:

    By all accounts, the past month has been most difficult on Romney’s wife, Ann, who friends said believed up until the end that ascending to the White House was their destiny. They said she has been crying in private and trying to get back to riding her horses.

    You know what I’m doing? Busting my butt 18 hours a day to get my kids through private school and college, even thought I haven’t bought any new clothes or name-brand vegetables or fixed my broken molar in the past three years. So I’ll snark, thank you. We need to keep kicking the losers in the teeth until there are no more teeth to kick, because until they’ve been marginalized to the degree that every lower middle class family has been marginalized to in the last 20-odd years, nothing is going to get better.

  50. 50
    eemom says:

    Lemme get this straight: dumbass FP concern troll extraordinaire, aka “OMG Obama fucked up the first debate he’s gonna fuck up the next ones we’re all gonna diiiiiiiiie” — is now dictating the terms on which we celebrate the victory that his pious ass warned us we’d be denied…..by citing, of all things, an Obama speech??

    Sheeyit, I’m just glad it’s Friday and not Saturday like I thought…..cuz otherwise I might think I’m not hallucinating this…..and then my brains would be exploded all over the walls and I’d have to clean them up.

  51. 51
    Llelldorin says:

    While I agree that we should work on the issues of the day, we should under no circumstances drop the snark. Snarky sarcasm is the first oratorical weapon that I’ve actually seen work against modern conservatism in my lifetime. Outrage doesn’t—they’re just as happy to drink our sweet, sweet tears of outrage as we are theirs. Ignoring them _certainly_ doesn’t. Open mockery, though (“It’s like they take pride in being ignorant,” or “…fewer bayonets and horses,” or any of many others over the last few years) seems to work.

    Snark is our greatest weapon. Nothing is ever too serious to deploy snark. Abandoning snark would be unilateral disarmament, and we should never, never agree to it if even one Republican is in a position of power, lest all our attempts to do real good be blocked.

  52. 52
    jl says:

    @some guy:

    The increase in the people named Dean around where I work is amazing. Yet I look up most popular first names I never see it.

    Anyone know what is up with that?

  53. 53
    JustAnotherBob says:

    @efgoldman:

    “My” first computer had a punched paper tape data/program storage system.

    One booted it up by setting a series of binary switches and then pushing a button. About 20 times.

    You always made a couple copies of your program/data each session. Paper tore.

    It only cost ~$75,000 in today’s dollars….

  54. 54
    JordanRules says:

    Came for the snark, stayed for the snark and as redshirt so eloquently put it, Snarky4Lyfe!

    Great Orange Satan started to take itself too seriously for my tastes but I get what Markos is doing I suppose. Just not my bag long term I s’pose. I do visit more often during the height of an election season.

    But this place is so much more than snark and to discount that seems strange. It’s like good gumbo to me and usually tastes fresh.

  55. 55
    Schlemizel says:

    @some guy:

    So you are not involved in your local school board are you.

    Some gooper legislators here wanted to pass a law that schools spent at least 80% of their money on classroom educational expenses. It turned out they couldn’t find a single district in the state that was not already doing that, most of them without counting the busing expenses.

  56. 56
    efgoldman says:

    @jl:

    Ha, when I was in HS, paper punch tape was old school.

    My first real job (i.e. not going back to school) was in a trucking company home office. We communicated with our terminals by teletype, punching the message onto paper tape, then loading the tape into the machine. Western Electric machines that never broke, full of mechanical relays and parts that interlocked.
    No, I’m not nostalgic.

  57. 57
    Cassidy says:

    But victory isn’t about kicking the GOP in the teeth—as fun as that might be—but in making a real difference in the lives of our fellow citizens.

    Actually, there the same. To achieve the latter, the former must be performed multiple times, followed with a curb stomp.

  58. 58
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @efgoldman: I still have a slide rule somewhere.

  59. 59
    Bruce S says:

    Consensus seems to be “Fuck Fucking the Snark”

    Anyway, I’ve been digging this bit of Etta doin’ country. Recorded in Muscle Shoals, 1967.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXKYpyt4iT8

  60. 60
    jurassicpork says:

    I don’t know what the hell this guy’s been smoking but it could replace medical marijuana.

    The income inequality is largely due to the fact that Obama owns part of that by caving endlessly to the Republican Party and allowing them to take hostage unemployment insurance and other things desperately needed by rank and file Americans so they could get tax cuts for those least deserving of it. I guess this guy also forgot when Obama used Steve Rattner to illegally fuck with GM’s pension plan to screw the workers who were counting on it.

    And don’t even get me started on the drone strikes, the NDAA, the assassination program, the longstanding opposition to gay rights and a whole host of things that put him to the right of Nixon, who at least started the fucking EPA.

    As for curbstomping the Republicans, I say we should American History X those pieces of shit, starting with those elderly, frothing lunatics Chuck Norris and John McCain, whose brain is spottier than a Ralph Steadman cartoon. If they’d taken this election like they did two years ago, you can bet your sore ass they’d be gloating about it and shaking the pigeon shit from the rafters. Schadenfreude is priceless and the day will come when we’ll lose our collective minds and vote in the right wing lunatics again when the Democrats fuck up, as they surely will.

  61. 61
    Chris says:

    And while it is easy to see them as the problem, they really aren’t. They are just deluded and scared, greedy and ignorant.

    Here’s the reality: Our country is being torn apart by income inequality.

    That income inequality has been caused by thirty years of hard work reversing as many as possible of the mechanisms that were put in place during the previous seventy or so years in order to sustain a healthy, prosperous, middle class society.

    And those thirty years were caused by Republicans.

    So yes, the Republicans are very much the problem.

  62. 62
    Roger Moore says:

    @efgoldman:
    There were computers before the 1960 election. In fact, one of those computers correctly predicted the 1952 election, but the media refused to release the results for fear of influencing the outcome(!) And why didn’t you learn to use a slide rule? I have an old Pickett that was obsolete long before I bought it, but I know how to use it, even the tricky stuff like logarithms and trig functions.

  63. 63
    lamh35 says:

    ok, music thread, I was wondering what all the hype was about those Beatz by Dre headphones, but whatever the case may be, Dr Dre is taking home bank all due to those damn headphones!!! He’s the highest paid musician from last year. $110 million !!!

    http://entertainment.time.com/.....-main-lead

  64. 64
    redshirt says:

    @Llelldorin:

    Snark is our greatest weapon. Nothing is ever too serious to deploy snark. Abandoning snark would be unilateral disarmament, and we should never, never agree to it if even one Republican is in a position of power, lest all our attempts to do real good be blocked.

    Well said! And so very correct. We can attack them with snark and they can’t snark back – they can’t do snark, even when they try their hardest. Because snark requires knowledge of reality, and the wit to mock that reality. When you live in the Bubble, there’s no reality but what Fox tells you, and thus unmoored, you could never be sharp enough to snark.

  65. 65
    Alison says:

    @CW in LA: WOOT! I am as happy about the win as I am gleeful at others’ unhappiness about it :P I snark on Galaxy haters and Republicans alike!

  66. 66
    jl says:

    @efgoldman:

    Here is something for snarking. One old computer in the corner in my HS computer lab used some kind of COBOL, except the commands were numeric codes. I forget the name of it. Nightmare city.

    Somehow I got stuck with that monstrosity for a project one semester. It was not kewl. I wanted to learn more Basic, C, and structured FORTRAN, which were also old school, but I did not realize it then.

    I didn’t go to a fancy HS. CS happened there because some fantastic HS math teachers scrounged computers that local businesses were going to junk.

  67. 67
    JustAnotherBob says:

    @efgoldman: I didn’t say dismiss them. I said ignore them as much as possible.

    If we are interested in the working poor getting better lives, that is probably legislation that can’t be passed. Unless there is a major cultural shift.

    But if there was a rebirth of the labor movement, updated for the current century, it might be possible to create change.

    As a slightly formed thought on how to get it going, a web site where folks who struggle for a living could meet and start to discuss how to improve their lot.

    Offer up a summary of the previous labor movement as a starter.

    With the internet it, or something like it, could quickly get the exchange of ideas going.

  68. 68
    efgoldman says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I still have a slide rule somewhere.

    Oh, I think there’s one, in a leather belt case, kicking around the basement somewhere, but I still never learned to use it.

  69. 69
    arguingwithsignposts says:

    I say we punch them in the neck.

  70. 70
    JordanRules says:

    @Chris: Right! And here I thought we had achieved a ‘no, the world is not flat’ consensus about them being exactly the problem. SMDH

    Still can’t figure out why he’s hating on my kinfolk Snark either!

  71. 71
    mdblanche says:

    Uh oh, someone somewhere may be happy. We can’t have that.

    So, you want a buzz-kill, here’s a buzz-kill. I don’t think we can do anything about income inequality you mention in the next four years and maybe not for a long time afterwards either. A majority may agree we need to do something about it, but once you take out everyone who still regard helping non-whites too a deal-breaker even after the last market crash, you’re back below 50%. And for all his other talents Barack Obama is literally the worst positioned president in history to reach them. I’ve just had too many conversations with people who say we need to tackle this problem but regard getting rid of all the Mexicans as a good first step and voted for Romney because there’s “something” wrong with Obama. Until the aggrieved white nationalism out there starts dying off, trying to advocate these issues is probably going to be as productive as banging your head against a wall. Damn, now I need some snark to cheer myself up.

    Oh, and those Republican clowns? Don’t take your eye off them for even a second. They looked even deader four years ago, and we know how that turned out.

  72. 72
    efgoldman says:

    @Roger Moore:

    And why didn’t you learn to use a slide rule?

    I was a music major, fer kreye-eye. And if not that, I would have been an English major. My last math course was in high school, my last science course (not counting Acoustics for Musicians) was high school physics.

  73. 73
  74. 74
    some guy says:

    @Schlemizel:

    no, mostly referred to secondary ed, where admin costs are ballooning while per pupil costs are deceasing or staying stagnant.

  75. 75
    some guy says:

    @Schlemizel:

    no, mostly referred to secondary ed, where admin costs are ballooning while per pupil costs are deceasing or staying stagnant.

  76. 76
    Schlemizel says:

    Apparently Mr. Finel has taken a page out of our hosts playbook. Crap out a front page post & then ignore any rebuttal/comments in the thread.

    There was a time here when that was considered so uncouth that Erectile Dysfunction Kane hid in his room & promised he would never come out if we pointed it out again & Papa John made him come out of his room and face the music.

    Recently it appears to be the norm for some FP’ers

  77. 77
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @lamh35: Mostly a style statement, as explainable by logic as Chuck Taylors. Not actually a terrible headphone, but for the majority of the customers you could put $2 drivers inside and they’d never know the difference.

  78. 78
    efgoldman says:

    @JustAnotherBob:

    If we are interested in the working poor getting better lives, that is probably legislation that can’t be passed. Unless there is a major cultural shift.
    But if there was a rebirth of the labor movement, updated for the current century, it might be possible to create change.
    As a slightly formed thought on how to get it going, a web site where folks who struggle for a living could meet and start to discuss how to improve their lot.

    Loomis over at Lawyers, Guns, & Money talks about this all the time.

  79. 79
    Keith G says:

    You may well be raked for this, BF.

    Seems to be a few on our side who didn’t learn the lesson of ’09. Spiking the ball and laughing at the empty-headed behavior of the other side is not a substitute for the type of grass roots organization that gets the American middle to buy into our policy choices. As an example:

    Figuratively, we need to curb-stomp the Republican party. There’s no single more important thing we could for the betterment of America and the world. Dems need to go on the attack and stay on the attack, relentlessly, against everything the Republican party stands for, and the Party itself. Only when they’re dead in the ground (metaphorically!) can we as a nation and a world grow the fuck up, move on, and solve our problems using reason and logic

    Compassionate problem-solving based on reason must come first and must be the focus of the policies that we push, and by doing that we reveal the current GOP for the empty swamp of avarice that it is. That is how we curb stomp them – not by snark and insults. That is their game.

    Notice that even our President has caught on to this. Create sound policy and then take no prisoners as you take the case (the winning case) to the people. The village and the conservatives will complain, but at present they have little ammunition to fire back. That won’t always be the case, so now is when we have to work like hell to press our advantage as for the moment, the cycle favors us.

  80. 80
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Schlemizel: Yeah, he faced the music very briefly then took his ball and went home.

    We could use an ombudsman again.

  81. 81
    Strandedvandal says:

    Wait, did you just post that Republicans aren’t the problem? Where the hell have you been? I don’t want the hear from you about anything, much less be lectured by you, when it’s clear you have no friggin clue what the reality is.

  82. 82
    jl says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    “We could use an ombudsman again.”

    I thought Tunch and Rosie did that.

  83. 83
    efgoldman says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    …as explainable by logic as Chuck Taylors.

    Hey, my kid wears Chucks. Its not a style statement. She’s got size 11 feet that are flatter than my living room floor. Any arch support at all is painful.

  84. 84
    Schlemizel says:

    @Keith G:

    Not sure where you were in 09 but there was a hell of a lot of grassroots work going on for the stimulus package (Dems sold us out to get a Republican vote) and on the ACA.

    That we enjoyed that victory would not come as a surprise after 8 years of the worst President in the history of the country. The reason the circus has clowns is so we can point and laugh at them but does not mean we can’t also organize. Snark does not take much time when you are in a target rich environment provided by todays GOP.

  85. 85
    jurassicpork says:

    Btw, in case you’ve been wondering where I’ve been for the past week and a half, this ought to answer at least some of your questions.

  86. 86
    redshirt says:

    @Keith G: First, Balloon Juice is NOT Congress, nor the Senate, nor the White House, nor any body dedicated to making or changing laws. This is a blog on the interwebs that talks politics, pets, food, sports, and other random stuff. Our snark here simply rouses the troops, rather than somehow undignifies the process.

    Second, your proposals are sound and I agree – the Democratic Party is the only home to smart, compassionate people, and as such, we tend to go out of our way to be polite and respectful, even to Republican slime. But that’s a game for the politicians – let them play it – while we snark and argue and demand fat cat pictures.

  87. 87
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @efgoldman: Go to Brooklyn. It’s a style statement.

  88. 88
    Schlemizel says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    No, all we need is front pagers like Betty and Sooner and Annie and a couple others who are willing to hang around and defend their post. Bernie should have just put up an open thread

  89. 89
    jl says:

    @Keith G:

    Yeah, that will do the trick. Seriously it will, and I agree with you. Except you need some snark with it. Snark aimed at the damn lies, which tend to go round the world before the truth gets its boots on. Unless you deploy some well aimed snark.

    Edit: snark backed up with evidence and truth and good argument, but still, snark.

    No more hunting of the snark, people hands off. Or, maybe we snarkers could get them to wander off into the underbrush on a snark hunt?

    There, there’s one! See it? That was a snark, I tell you. Hurry up, they are quick little buggers. You’ll have to go crawling through that mess now to get one.

  90. 90
    amk says:

    Snark is a great weapon. It killed that tundra twit. There is that.

  91. 91
    Cassidy says:

    @jurassicpork:

    Btw, in case you’ve been wondering where I’ve been for the past week and a half,

    No. Not really.

  92. 92
    arguingwithsignposts says:

    @jurassicpork: Damn, I was going to compliment you for not blogwhoring in your earlier bullshit rant. Oh, well.

  93. 93
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Schlemizel: Yeah, just taking a shot at Kane or Kain or whoever he was. He ever so humbly suggested that as a role for himself and got laughed out of the room.

  94. 94
  95. 95
    Schlemizel says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I forget his last name but Erectile Dysfunction fits him perfectly enough, that is how he will always be remembered.

  96. 96
    Cain says:

    Obama still inspires me to this day. I don’t agree with everything, but honestly if we want the change, it’s really up to all of us to change the culture.

  97. 97
    Roger Moore says:

    @jurassicpork:

    Btw, in case you’ve been wondering where I’ve been for the past week and a half,

    Only in the sense that now you’re here, I wish you’d go back to wherever it was that was keeping you away. We really don’t need people who only show up to blogwhore.

  98. 98
    Full Metal Wingnut says:

    @Ted & Hellen: Dude, this continuity auditor shit is like the highest form of trolling. Wow.

  99. 99
  100. 100
    Keith G says:

    @Schlemizel: There was activity but it seemed to me that it came later in the process as more of a counter to the Tea Party aggression. And as such, we lost the best opportunity for traction. Offense is quite often better than a hurried defense. I like what the Prez has finally snapped to…leave nothing on the table; get folks energized before the fight begins.

    And

    @jl: Snark away. Its fun and when used appropriately an important tool in our tool kit, but remember:

    If you can snark- and not make snark your master;
    If you can dis – and not make insults your aim;

    With apologies.

  101. 101
    Bruce S says:

    @redshirt:

    “while we snark and argue and demand fat cat pictures”

    I sort of liked the one of a disheveled, despondent Romney pumping gas.

  102. 102
    Ruckus says:

    @efgoldman:
    Used a slide rule in my job for a number of years till the first reasonably priced calculators came out. Used one to work on the molds for a series of calculators that Rockwell was going to come out with. It was supposed to be much cheaper than HP that few could afford. We got all done with the project and Duracell used them in a battery commercial just in time for the market to be flooded from the far east. That’s when Rockwell dumped the whole project because they would have lost about $50 per unit. It’s also when I put my slide rule away for the last time.

  103. 103
    eemom says:

    @jurassicpork:

    in case you’ve been wondering where I’ve been for the past week and a half

    k, that does it. I AM hallucinating.

  104. 104
    Smiling Mortician says:

    @some guy: Really, not. Expenditures in both primary and secondary ed are heavily weighted toward actual instruction of students. Now if you want to talk about post-secondary education, you’ll get no argument from me. Administrative bloat has increased drastically in recent decades.

  105. 105
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @redshirt:

    Nobel Peace Prize winner, two term President, awesome jump shot, accomplished nerd.

    Pretty sure they’d take that peace prize back if they could. They don’t generally issue those to folks who kill innocent people at the drop of a drone.

  106. 106
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @El Cid:

    People can do whatever they want. And write whatever they want.

    Except for Bernard, right? Idiot.

  107. 107

    @jurassicpork:

    Btw, in case you’ve been wondering where I’ve been for the past week and a half,

    I believe you have received your answer.

  108. 108
    Ruckus says:

    @Cassidy:
    I was going to say the thought never crossed my mind even when brought up.
    But you do pithy better.

  109. 109
    Sawgrass Stan says:

    Man, I really hate it when I get off work and miss getting into a thread like this until the peeps are arguing about how many trolls can dance on the head of a pin…
    I had something nice to say about maintaining our shared ideals and the value of community, I really did, but I lost my train of thought trying to come up with some clever puns about butfvcking elephants.

  110. 110
    redshirt says:

    @Ted & Hellen: LOL. Yeah, right. Ending the war in Iraq, about to do the same in Afghanistan, the world in greater stability then the last 12 or so years, yeah. Nobel Committee’s all up in arms and demanding the medallion back.

  111. 111
    Redshift says:

    @Keith G:

    Compassionate problem-solving based on reason must come first and must be the focus of the policies that we push, and by doing that we reveal the current GOP for the empty swamp of avarice that it is. That is how we curb stomp them – not by snark and insults. That is their game.
    __
    Notice that even our President has caught on to this.

    Yeah, I remember how Obama spent all of his first term throwing snark and insults at the Republicans, instead of compassionate problem-solving based on reason.

    There’s been quite a lot written about how liberals tend to make the mistake that all they need to do is present reasoned arguments and facts, and that will surely convince everyone. You might want to check it out.

  112. 112
    Pinkamena Panic says:

    Troll post.
    Troll commenter being fed.

    Same old song and dance here.

  113. 113
    Sawgrass Stan says:

    @Redshift: Well, BARNEY FRANK,goddammit!!!– Liberal, Samuel Johnson-grade wit, and effective as a legislator. Why should you or any lefty be agreeing with the Fox crowd about how lame libruls are?

  114. 114
    Anne Laurie says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Yeah, he faced the music very briefly then took his ball and went home.

    IMO, Kain got exactly what he wanted — he leveraged the larger Balloon Juice platform (‘lookit all the hits I got! Mostly calling me seventeen varieties of idiots, but still: HITS!’) to get a paid job blogging for the right-wing media.

    This may or may not have come as a surprise to the Blogmaster, but ever since, Cole’s been valiantly trying to achieve the same success for other FPers, on the progressive side. Unfortunately, there’s just not as much money to throw around in our tribe, but kudos to John for trying….

  115. 115
    clayton says:

    @Keith: Keith you forgot your g

  116. 116
    fleeting expletive says:

    Just to say, there’s a really good doc on PBS,Independent Lens, Episode Reel Injun, about american indians in cinema.

    One segment I just saw, an Indian man says he loves the sound “PFFFFFFT” as an arrow penetrates some cowboy or whatever. He says I love pffft because shoot an arrow-problem solved. Diabetes? —- pfffft! IRS man?——pffffft!

    Etcetera. If your problems could be solved with pffffffttt arrows. Even then they probly had problems that couldn’t be solved with arrows. I guess Hollywood didn’t think so, didn’t care of course.

    Marlon Brando’s Oscar gesture with Sacheen accepting his award was bold, if ineffective, I guess.

  117. 117
    Mandalay says:

    @Bernard Finel

    We spend huge amounts on education and yet our educational system is problematic at best.

    We spend huge amounts on social security and yet our social security system is problematic at best.

    We spend huge amounts on health care and yet our health care system is problematic at best.

    We spend huge amounts on infrastructure and yet our infrastructure system is problematic at best.

    We spend huge amounts on assholes and yet our asshole system is problematic at best.

    Hey, I can write meaningless drivel as well! Thanks for providing the template on how to do it Bernard.

  118. 118
    efgoldman says:

    @Ruckus:

    … till the first reasonably priced calculators came out.

    The plant where I worked bought Sharp calculators for everyone in Production control. Four function, I think they set the company back $300-$350 each.
    About a year later, my dad was real pleased with himself because he got a Bowmar Brain (five function with percents? I don’t remember) on sale for $65.

  119. 119
    Cassidy says:

    @redshirt: Don’t bother. Teddy Ruxpin will get a new shipment of black light paints and velvet in soon and then it’ll disappear to do more flea market art work. Just ignore it until then.

  120. 120
    Schlemizel says:

    @Keith G:

    Sorry to hear that was your world. My experience was different

  121. 121
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Ruckus: Rockwell must have produced some, cause I had one. It was my first calculator in high school.

  122. 122
    Concerned Citizen says:

    Snark is what makes it bearable. It’s horrible how stupid this country is. George Bush twice? Snark is good.

  123. 123
    srv says:

    : Our country is being torn apart by income inequality.

    You are so quaint.

    I remember when a glibertarian here could not be bothered to show up in the comments. I guess the rest of the FPers get a pass.

  124. 124
  125. 125
    fleeting expletive says:

    In 197? I got a Ti 50 (?) whatever the hot calculator was then, from my little brother who was a tech wizard of that day and he had some kind of an inside track to this hot new toy, like the latest i-whatever. Then, a year or so later my house was burglarized and the calculator was one of the stolen items. I paid my brother something like 150 bucks I think for the new calculator, maybe it was 65. When it was listed among the burglarized items it was 12 I think.

    Now they are practically McDonalds toys by now.

  126. 126
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @srv: Yup, that’s the one.

  127. 127
    fleeting expletive says:

    Snark is good indeed. This blog often yields good snark.

  128. 128
    Joel says:

    You’re right Bernard. I think we need to address the Republican platform more seriously.

  129. 129
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @redshirt:

    Ending the war in Iraq, about to do the same in Afghanistan, the world in greater stability then the last 12 or so years, yeah.

    What are you on?

    The war on Iraq is not over, moron. Violence continues and we have thousands of contractors over there, not to mention the largest fucking Taj Mahal of an embassy in the world, as well as multiple huge bases. Not to mention the many soldiers and bases in the countries AROUND Iraq. But yeah, sure, the war is over.

    The war in Afghanistan rages on and has moved into Pakistan as well. Your guy has had FOUR years to end it. He didn’t do it. How many have died there in the last four years. All on Baracks’ hands.

    The world is more stable? lol Syria, Iran, Yemen, and Egypt would disagree… Obot Event Horizon is perhaps infinite.

  130. 130
    Xenos says:

    Snark is how lefties do ridicule.

    Ridicule is actually a pretty important phenomenon that helps consolidate a political faction and helps it mobilize itself.

    It has a somewhat ugly side to it as it holds out people and ideas for a group ritual of contempt, but welcome to the human race.

    And snark is a far, far better thing than the racism and misogyny used to consolidate and mobilize the reactionaries and revanchistes on the right.

  131. 131
    Joel says:

    @Keith G: A cogent post. I disagree for two reasons:

    1) you’ve reversed the cause and effect of the mockery/republican gains in 2010. the motivating factor for repbulicans was losing power. the mockery came after the wheels were set in motion.

    2) the president recognized the window the first time around. remember the ACA? president obama advanced an ambitious liberal agenda and paid a poltiical price for it. this time around, there is a limited opportunity to repeat the act. after this bit of leverage falls out, prepare yourself for some more disappointment. it’s baked in the cake.

  132. 132
    Forum Transmitted Disease says:

    Btw, in case you’ve been wondering where I’ve been for the past week and a half, this ought to answer at least some of your questions.

    @jurassicpork: I didn’t click, but based on your past behavior you were probably:

    1. Begging for moneys
    2. Bitching about how no one links to your shit blog any more
    3. Writing at least ten thousand words about how Obama is the worst president since Hitler
    4. The word “sheeple” was used at least twenty times in oh-so-bitter posts about how the tyrant Obama got re-elected
    5. Still unemployed and wondering how you can sucker someone into paying your bills

    Close? I’m betting I’m 5 for 5.

  133. 133

    @Schlemizel:

    Do you have a source for that? I could use it in the many arguments I get on this point, but I don’t have a source for spending.

    Also too, a huge portion of the increased spending for public education is for things, like special education, that were not part of public educations mandate.

  134. 134
    srv says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Might be exaggerating, it could have been a 14 or 28 something.

    Then had a bunch of TI’s. They didn’t last long. Finally, I went to a HP 11c. That became a problem when I got a real job. I was sitting at a console in no less than the Mission Control Center building at JSC when a dinosaur (what we called them) saw it and said “If Gene sees that, you’re going to get thrown out of the building.”

    Gene as in Gene Kranz. Seems HP had been banned since the 70’s.

    That said, I’ve got a 20s that is on batteries like 15 years old. And I use it every week.

  135. 135
    srv says:

    @Ted & Hellen: Decent Interval. Look it up.

    If you’d wanted a liberal, Rosanne was on the ticket.

  136. 136
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    Hmmm, paper tape and cassette ports.

    30 years ago next month I got my first PC. An IBM even. 64kb(16 standard) cassette port, but I got the 320 dual sided 5 1/4″ floppy disk drive and DOS 1.1.

    I never worked with paper tape, though my dad had some for his ham station. But in college we used punch cards. The problem is the machine at our fine public university didn’t budget much for maintenance of the punch card printers. So they’d punch OK but without any text on the top to see what was on the card. After typing your program you’d run it through the compiler to get a printout of what was on the cards. If your cards got shuffled, you had to rerun it though the compiler. You could always ID the CS majors, they’d be carrying punch card boxes. I actually saw a girl cry when she dropped her punch card box during a Santa Ana wind.

  137. 137
    dmbeaster says:

    Just saw Lincoln which is definitely worth seeing. Lincoln teaches us that judicious use of snarky wit and high principles can easily coexist , hell, even serve each other.

  138. 138
    redshirt says:

    @Ted & Hellen: Way to resort to expletives and insults rather than debate and discussion. Typical of Obama Haters, I’ve found. I guess you just aren’t capable of understanding how awesome Obama truly is. Don’t worry, there’s plenty (27%) of others who are in the same boat.

  139. 139
    El Cid says:

    @Ted & Hellen:

    Except for Bernard, right? Idiot.

    You actually think that was connected, don’t you?

  140. 140
    xian says:

    @Gin & Tonic: i’ve got a sliderule app on my iPhone

  141. 141
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Ted & Hellen: Sure. Doesn’t mean people can’t criticize him for it.

    @Ted & Hellen: Teddy Roosevelt got one. Admittedly, he didn’t use drones, but then again, they didn’t exist back then.

  142. 142
    Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason says:

    @Roger Moore:

    And if you really wanted it to be safe, you had to put it on paper,

    I asked my Dad once, how he managed to do all his research before Xerox machines. His answer?

    We took notes!

  143. 143

    @Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason: you just reminded me of this machine they used in the schools when I was in elementary school, the “ditto machine”. Everything would turn out purplish, and had a funny smell until it dried.

  144. 144
    Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason says:

    @JordanRules: Check out Kos’s posts these days. Man, he is wallowing in schadenfreude. The rest of the site may be dull dull dull, but he’s posting things asking essentially for “What was your favorite Republican fuckup?”

  145. 145
    Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason says:

    @efgoldman: I’ve still got my K&E Log Log Duplex Decitrig and my Dad’s Log Log Duplex Vector. (Slide rules for you dummies)

    When the IT guys came for my computer to “upgrade” me, I told them my Dad managed to use the same tool for most of his career, the computer did what I needed it to do, I had it set up the way I wanted, and that if I got a new one, they needed to give me a charge number for the day of headaches it would cause me.

    They went away. I’m gonna ride this dinosaur into the tar pits. Waving my slide rule.

  146. 146
    redshirt says:

    Kos is pretty chillax these days. It’s sweet. He’s worked wicked hard and this Democratic success is in some small way thanks to him (as of course thanks to so many others as well, people other than BHO).

    I’d gloat and boast about my successful predictions for the election if I were him. He was right, and deserves a place on the national media level to speak it.

  147. 147
    taylormattd says:

    Fuck off you sanctimonious scold.

    And fuck off a second time, since you didn’t give two shits whether Mitt or Obama was elected.

    Why the fuck is this asshole posting here Cole?

  148. 148
    owlbear1 says:

    The Republicans are clowns. Destructive, dangerous, mendacious clowns.

    Don’t forget well armed and prone to conspiracies…

  149. 149
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @owlbear1: And mockery is a weapon. Let’s use it. People don’t vote for candidates they see as laughingstocks.

  150. 150

    @taylormattd:

    Why the fuck is this asshole posting here Cole?

    I asked him that basic question once, about a different person, and he said, approximately: “I like a diversity of opinions on the front page”.

  151. 151
    redshirt says:

    This thread reminds me of that classic Aretha album, “Who’s Trollin’ Who?”

  152. 152
    Lojasmo says:

    @Bago:

    fucking great to meet you. mang.

  153. 153
    eemom says:

    @taylormattd:

    The assholier the asshole Cole invites to FP turns out to be, the redder in the face Cole gets stomping up and down to defend that choice.

    Next Q?

  154. 154
    pluege says:

    delusional poppycock

    furthermore regarding:
    But victory isn’t about kicking the GOP in the teeth—…—but in making a real difference in the lives of our fellow citizens.

    the former is necessary if you have any chance of achieving the latter since it is the republican/conservative psycho sociopath’s objective to impoverish as many of the 98% as possible. if you think peace, love, and joying republicans will do anything but help them destroy the lives countless millions, you are completely out of touch with American political reality.

  155. 155
    Joe Max says:

    The human race has one really effective weapon, and that is laughter. — Mark Twain

  156. 156
    Bago says:

    @Lojasmo: I can say likewise.listen to Ween?

  157. 157
    Fred says:

    Mock ’em if they stand
    Mock ’em if they run
    Mock ’em ’cause it wins
    Mock ’em ’cause it’s fun

  158. 158
    Bobby Thomson says:

    Well, it’s all been said already, but I especially liked “Fuck off, you sanctimonious scold.”

  159. 159
    Ken_L says:

    ‘We’re an unparalleled force for good in the world …’

    Is the world going to be consulted about this drivel or are you pretty much like the neocons, so full of yourself that you are incapable of evidence-based reasoning?

    America will continue to decline and fall whilst ever it wallows in this kind of self-congratulatory American
    Exceptionalism fantasy. To people from other countries (like me), the differences between Democrats and Republicans are trivial. You’re all assholes who are incapable of dealing with reality.

  160. 160
    J R in WVa says:

    Income inequality is happening because the Republicans have managed to destroy the power of the labor movement. The only way to get money from Republican corporate management is to demand it with a crowbar on the bargaining table. All the power of strikes and organizing was whittled away by the National Labor Relations Board and the Taft-Hartley Act.

    Once upon a time if you voted to walk out, the company was shut down until the workers agreed to go back to work because they got a living wage and good benefits, and the company was unable to fire their workers and hire replacements.

    Now, the company in theory cannot fire workers, but they can hire so-called temporary workers and keep the business going as usual. If they fire union activists, it takes the Republican-oriented NLRB 2 or 3 years to decide that, whoops, it WAS illegal to fire that guy for passing around union cards, 23 or 35 months after he lost his house, his car, and his life.

    Without the ability to shut down a business, unions have almost no ability to pry wage increases equivalent to productivity and profitability increases, so all that extra profit goes into the CEO and Board and their cronies.

    Americans work more hours a year and are more productive than any work force in the world. There is no reason for us to take a back seat to any country in terms of earning power, vacation time, health care, you name it.

    But until it is again illegal – in an enforceable and meaningful way! to hire replacement workers, or otherwise attack union members who are organizing or striking during labor negotiations, we won’t be able to address income inequality successfully. Every worker should have union leadership helping them manage their benefits and squeeze the bosses for real wage increases.

    The Republican propaganda teaching workers that unions just protect bad workers and take union dues for the benefit of fat-cat union bosses has been even more successful than their demonization of liberals. Without unions workers get to take the leavings of their bosses and learn to like it or fu*k off and die, sometimes literally!

  161. 161
    xian says:

    when did Bernard turn into an O-bot?

    and what is the obsession on the left with “you’re doing it wrong”?

  162. 162
    rikyrah says:

    I don’t really understand the point of this post.

    Yes, I’m thrilled that the sociopath known as Willard Romney didn’t make it to the White House.

    Yes, I’m going to mock a muthafucka that dismissed 47% of this country.

    And his equally ENTITLED wife that had the nerve to say it was THEIR TURN to win the White House.

Comments are closed.