Happy Turkey Day Everyone

The Lions got totally jobbed by the only rule in football dumber than the helmet rule in the NCAA where someone has to leave the game because someone knocked the shit out of them and their helmet flew off.

What was the logic of that rule? Were Bidwell and the corpse of Al Davis involved in that idiocy? “Hey- every touchdown is automatically reviewed. But if a coach demands a review on that same play, we just say to hell with it, no soup for you, then penalize him 15 yards.”

Complete idiocy. If you want to penalize someone for throwing a challenge flag on an automatically challenged play (and even then I don’t know why you would), I don’t have any idea why you would then refuse to review the play at all. Charge them a timeout or something for being an idiot. But letting absolute garbage like that through? Some team may have just lost home field advantage because of that, and the Lions season may be over. Just appalling stupidity.

Oh, and Happy Thanksgiving.

89 replies
  1. 1
    arguingwithsignposts says:

    You know what’s missing? Hockey.

  2. 2
    Bobbyk says:

    Dumbest freakin thing I’ve seen since the “tuck rule”.

  3. 3
    Mr Stagger Lee says:

    And the NFL’s rule on tie-breaking is stupid too, at least they avoided that turkey, that happened with the St.Louis-San Francisco. I like the NCAA’s tie breaker, better. Oh BTW Gary Bettmann of the NHL, may you die the most painful death ever devised.

  4. 4
    cathyx says:

    You’re giving too much importance to football. Let’s have some more wine.

  5. 5
    burnspbesq says:

    It’s clear that the NFL Competition Committee evaluates every potential rule change based on its potential to leave Cole spluttering in incoherent rage.

  6. 6
    Felonius Monk says:

    Gobble, Gobble! Just desserts for the intentional kick-in-the-nuts, I think.

  7. 7
    Linnaeus says:

    As a lifelong Lions fan, this one was a real downer. At least in the Lions’ previous eight Thanksgiving Day losses, they were totally overmatched (with the exception of, maybe, last season). This year, they’re not so much bad as they are underachieving. They outplayed one of the best teams in the league and still didn’t get the win.

  8. 8
    HobbesAI says:

    Why would the coach demand a review of a play that will automatically be reviewed?

  9. 9
    Linnaeus says:


    Schwartz says he threw the flag before the touchdown was scored, but admits that it was an error on his part. Still doesn’t make sense to wipe out the review itself.

  10. 10
    Politically Lost says:

    Glad I missed that.

    The old trusty, rusty Webber kettle decided to give up the ghost in the most spectacular fashion. I had just placed the turkey, stabilized the temp at perfect, and thrown a last sprig of thyme in the gravy fixins and was placing the lid back on when BLAM! the leg literally snapped off the kettle and unceremoniously dumped its contents on my foot. An impressive man scream ensued.

    Fortunately, almost everything was saved by the quick thinking of Ms. Lost and I wasn’t burned.

    We’ll all be talking about that moment for many years.

  11. 11
    Raven says:

    Catching an enormous redfish on thanksgiving is swell! Go Bears!

  12. 12
    Raven says:

    @HobbesAI: Because he’s the loser coach of the loser Lions!

  13. 13
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    Some team may have just lost home field advantage because of that

    Yep, prolly the Ravens.

  14. 14
    AA+ Bonds says:

    Well, things worked out a little different from the way I thought, but let me tell you, I still love New York.

    My fellow Democrats and my fellow Americans, I have come here tonight not to argue as a candidate but to affirm a cause. I’m asking you–I am asking you to renew the commitment of the Democratic Party to economic justice.

    I am asking you to renew our commitment to a fair and lasting prosperity that can put America back to work.

    This is the cause that brought me into the campaign and that sustained me for nine months across 100,000 miles in 40 different states. We had our losses, but the pain of our defeats is far, far less than the pain of the people that I have met.

    We have learned that it is important to take issues seriously, but never to take ourselves too seriously.

    The serious issue before us tonight is the cause for which the Democratic Party has stood in its finest hours, the cause that keeps our Party young and makes it, in the second century of its age, the largest political party in this republic and the longest lasting political party on this planet.

    Our cause has been, since the days of Thomas Jefferson, the cause of the common man and the common woman.

    Our commitment has been, since the days of Andrew Jackson, to all those he called “the humble members of society–the farmers, mechanics, and laborers.” On this foundation we have defined our values, refined our policies and refreshed our faith.

    Now I take the unusual step of carrying the cause and the commitment of my campaign personally to our national convention. I speak out of a deep sense of urgency about the anguish and anxiety I have seen across America.

    I speak out of a deep belief in the ideals of the Democratic Party, and in the potential of that Party and of a President to make a difference. And I speak out of a deep trust in our capacity to proceed with boldness and a common vision that will feel and heal the suffering of our time and the divisions of our Party.

    The economic plank of this platform on its face concerns only material things, but it is also a moral issue that I raise tonight. It has taken many forms over many years. In this campaign and in this country that we seek to lead, the challenge in 1980 is to give our voice and our vote for these fundamental democratic principles.

    Let us pledge that we will never misuse unemployment, high interest rates, and human misery as false weapons against inflation.

    Let us pledge that employment will be the first priority of our economic policy.

    Let us pledge that there will be security for all those who are now at work, and let us pledge that there will be jobs for all who are out of work; and we will not compromise on the issue of jobs.

    These are not simplistic pledges. Simply put, they are the heart of our tradition, and they have been the soul of our Party across the generations. It is the glory and the greatness of our tradition to speak for those who have no voice, to remember those who are forgotten, to respond to the frustrations and fulfill the aspirations of all Americans seeking a better life in a better land.

    We dare not forsake that tradition. We cannot let the great purposes of the Democratic Party become the bygone passages of history.

    We must not permit the Republicans to seize and run on the slogans of prosperity. We heard the orators at their convention all trying to talk like Democrats. They proved that even Republican nominees can quote Franklin Roosevelt to their own purpose.

    The Grand Old Party thinks it has found a great new trick, but 40 years ago an earlier generation of Republicans attempted the same trick. And Franklin Roosevelt himself replied, “Most Republican leaders have bitterly fought and blocked the forward surge of average men and women in their pursuit of happiness. Let us not be deluded that overnight those leaders have suddenly become the friends of average men and women.”

    “You know,” he continued, “very few of us are that gullible.” And four years later when the Republicans tried that trick again, Franklin Roosevelt asked “Can the Old Guard pass itself off as the New Deal? I think not. We have all seen many marvelous stunts in the circus, but no performing elephant could turn a handspring without falling flat on its back.”

    The 1980 Republican convention was awash with crocodile tears for our economic distress, but it is by their long record and not their recent words that you shall know them.

    The same Republicans who are talking about the crisis of unemployment have nominated a man who once said, and I quote, “Unemployment insurance is a prepaid vacation plan for freeloaders.” And that nominee is no friend of labor.

    The same Republicans who are talking about the problems of the inner cities have nominated a man who said, and I quote, “I have included in my morning and evening prayers every day the prayer that the Federal Government not bail out New York.” And that nominee is no friend of this city and our great urban centers across this Nation.

    The same Republicans who are talking about security for the elderly have nominated a man who said just four years ago that “Participation in social security should be made voluntary.” And that nominee is no friend of the senior citizens of this Nation.

    The same Republicans who are talking about preserving the environment have nominated a man who last year made the preposterous statement, and I quote, “Eighty percent of our air pollution comes from plants and trees.”

    And that nominee is no friend of the environment.

    And the same Republicans who are invoking Franklin Roosevelt have nominated a man who said in 1976, and these are his exact words, “Fascism was really the basis of the New Deal.” And that nominee whose name is Ronald Reagan has no right to quote Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

    The great adventures which our opponents offer is a voyage into the past. Progress is our heritage, not theirs. What is right for us as Democrats is also the right way for Democrats to win.

    The commitment I seek is not to outworn views but to old values that will never wear out. Programs may sometimes become obsolete, but the ideal of fairness always endures.

    Circumstances may change, but the work of compassion must continue. It is surely correct that we cannot solve problems by throwing money at them, but it is also correct that we dare not throw out our national problems onto a scrap heap of inattention and indifference. The poor may be out of political fashion, but they are not without human needs. The middle class may be angry, but they have not lost the dream that all Americans can advance together.

    The demand of our people in 1980 is not for smaller government or bigger government but for better government. Some say that government is always bad and that spending for basic social programs is the root of our economic evils. But we reply: The present inflation and recession cost our economy $200 billion a year. We reply: Inflation and unemployment are the biggest spenders of all.

    The task of leadership in 1980 is not to parade scapegoats or to seek refuge in reaction, but to match our power to the possibilities of progress. While others talked of free enterprise, it was the Democratic Party that acted and we ended excessive regulation in the airline and trucking industry and we restored competition to the marketplace. And I take some satisfaction that this deregulation was legislation that I sponsored and passed in the Congress of the United States.

    As Democrats we recognize that each generation of Americans has a rendezvous with a different reality. The answers of one generation become the questions of the next generation. But there is a guiding star in the American firmament. It is as old as the revolutionary belief that all people are created equal, and as clear as the contemporary condition of Liberty City and the South Bronx.

    Again and again Democratic leaders have followed that star and they have given new meaning to the old values of liberty and justice for all.

    We are the party. We are the party of the New Freedom, the New Deal and the New Frontier. We have always been the party of hope. So this year let us offer new hope, new hope to an America uncertain about the present, but unsurpassed in its potential for the future.

    To all those who are idle in the cities and industries of America let us provide new hope for the dignity of useful work. Democrats have always believed that a basic civil right of all Americans is their right to earn their own way. The party of the people must always be the party of full employment. To all those who doubt the future of our economy, let us provide new hope for the reindustrialization of America. And let our vision reach beyond the next election or the next year to a new generation of prosperity. If we could rebuild Germany and Japan after World War II, then surely we can reindustrialize our own nation and revive our inner cities in the 1980s.

    To all those who work hard for a living wage let us provide new hope that the price of their employment shall not be an unsafe workplace and a death at an earlier age.

    To all those who inhabit our land from California to the New York Island, from the Redwood Forest to the Gulfstream waters, let us provide new hope that prosperity shall not be purchased by poisoning the air, the rivers and the natural resources that are the greatest gift of this continent.

    We must insist that our children and our grandchildren shall inherit a land which they can truly call America the beautiful.

    To all those who see the worth of their work and their savings taken by inflation, let us offer new hope for a stable economy. We must meet the pressures of the present by invoking the full power of government to master increasing prices.

    In candor, we must say that the Federal budget can be balanced only by policies that bring us to a balanced prosperity of full employment and price restraint.

    And to all those overburdened by an unfair tax structure, let us provide new hope for real tax reform. Instead of shutting down classrooms, let us shut off tax shelters.

    Instead of cutting out school lunches, let us cut off tax subsidies for expensive business lunches that are nothing more than food stamps for the rich.

    The tax cut of our Republican opponents takes the name of tax reform in vain. It is a wonderfully Republican idea that would redistribute income in the wrong direction. It is good news for any of you with incomes over $200,000 a year. For the few of you, it offers a pot of gold worth $14,000. But the Republican tax cut is bad news for the middle income families.

    For the many of you, they plan a pittance of $200 a year, and that is not what the Democratic Party means when we say tax reform.

    The vast majority of Americans cannot afford this panacea from a Republican nominee who has denounced the progressive income tax as the invention of Karl Marx. I am afraid he has confused Karl Marx with Theodore Roosevelt–that obscure Republican president who sought and fought for a tax system based on ability to pay. Theodore Roosevelt was not Karl Marx, and the Republican tax scheme is not tax reform.

    Finally, we cannot have a fair prosperity in isolation from a fair society. So I will continue to stand for a national health insurance.

    We must not surrender to the relentless medical inflation that can bankrupt almost anyone and that may soon break the budgets of government at every level. Let us insist on real control over what doctors and hospitals can charge, and let us resolve that the state of a family’s health shall never depend on the size of a family’s wealth.

    The President, the Vice President, the members of Congress have a medical plan that meets their needs in full, and whenever senators and representatives catch a little cold, the Capitol physician will see them immediately, treat them promptly, fill a prescription on the spot. We do not get a bill even if we ask for it, and when do you think was the last time a member of Congress asked for a bill from the Federal Government?

    I say again, as I have before, if health insurance is good enough for the President, the Vice President and the Congress of the United States, then it is good enough for you and every family in America.

    There were some who said we should be silent about our differences on issues during this convention, but the heritage of the Democratic Party has been a history of democracy. We fight hard because we care deeply about our principles and purposes. We did not flee this struggle. We welcome the contrast with the empty and expedient spectacle last month in Detroit where no nomination was contested, no question was debated, and no one dared to raise any doubt or dissent.

    Democrats can be proud that we chose a different course and a different platform. We can be proud that our Party stands for investment in safe energy instead of a nuclear future that may threaten the future itself.

    We must not permit the neighborhoods of America to be permanently shadowed by the fear of another Three Mile Island.

    We can be proud that our Party stands for a fair housing law to unlock the doors of discrimination once and for all. The American house will be divided against itself so long as there is prejudice against any American buying or renting a home.

    And we can be proud that our Party stands plainly and publicly and persistently for the ratification of the Equal Rights Amendment.

    Women hold their rightful place at our convention, and women must have their rightful place in the Constitution of the United States. On this issue we will not yield, we will not equivocate, we will not rationalize, explain or excuse. We will stand for E.R.A. and for the recognition at long last that our nation was made up of founding mothers as well as founding fathers.

    A fair prosperity and a just society are within our vision and our grasp, and we do not have every answer. There are questions not yet asked, waiting for us in the recesses of the future, but of this much we can be certain because it is the lesson of all our history: Together a president and the people can make a difference. I have found that faith still alive wherever I have traveled across this land. So let us reject the counsel of retreat and the call to reaction. Let us go forward in the knowledge that history only helps those who help themselves.

    There will be setbacks and sacrifices in the years ahead but I am convinced that we as a people are ready to give something back to our country in return for all it has given to us.

    Let this be our commitment: Whatever sacrifices must be made will be shared and shared fairly. And let this be our confidence: At the end of our journey and always before us shines that ideal of liberty and justice for all.

    In closing, let me say a few words to all those that I have met and to all those who have supported me, at this convention and across the country. There were hard hours on our journey, and often we sailed against the wind. But always we kept our rudder true, and there were so many of you who stayed the course and shared our hope. You gave your help, but even more, you gave your hearts.

    Because of you, this has been a happy campaign. You welcomed Joan, me and our family into your homes and neighborhoods, your churches, your campuses, your union halls. When I think back of all the miles and all the months and all the memories, I think of you. I recall the poet’s words, and I say: What golden friends I have.

    Among you, my golden friends across this land, I have listened and learned.

    I have listened to Kenny Dubois, a glassblower in Charleston, West Virginia, who has ten children to support but has lost his job after 35 years, just three years short of qualifying for his pension.

    I have listened to the Trachta family who farm in Iowa and who wonder whether they can pass the good life and the good earth on to their children.

    I have listened to the grandmother in East Oakland who no longer has a phone to call her grandchildren because she gave it up to pay the rent on her small apartment.

    I have listened to young workers out of work, to students without the tuition for college, and to families without the chance to own a home. I have seen the closed factories and the stalled assembly lines of Anderson, Indiana and South Gate, California, and I have seen too many, far too many idle men and women desperate to work. I have seen too many, far too many working families desperate to protect the value of their wages from the ravages of inflation.

    Yet I have also sensed a yearning for new hope among the people in every state where I have been. And I have felt it in their handshakes, I saw it in their faces, and I shall never forget the mothers who carried children to our rallies. I shall always remember the elderly who have lived in an America of high purpose and who believe that it can all happen again.

    Tonight, in their name, I have come here to speak for them. And for their sake, I ask you to stand with them. On their behalf I ask you to restate and reaffirm the timeless truth of our Party.

    I congratulate President Carter on his victory here.

    I am confident that the Democratic Party will reunite on the basis of Democratic principles, and that together we will march towards a Democratic victory in 1980.

    And someday, long after this convention, long after the signs come down, and the crowds stop cheering, and the bands stop playing, may it be said of our campaign that we kept the faith. May it be said of our Party in 1980 that we found our faith again.

    And may it be said of us, both in dark passages and in bright days, in the words of Tennyson that my brothers quoted and loved, and that have special meaning for me now:
    “I am a part of all that I have met….
    Tho much is taken, much abides….
    That which we are, we are–
    One equal temper of heroic hearts,
    …strong in will
    To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.”

    For me, a few hours ago, this campaign came to an end. For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die.

    Senator Edward M. Kennedy – August 12, 1980

  15. 15
    Maude says:

    @AA+ Bonds:
    Have you thought of getting your own blog?
    We are in med rant about football here.

  16. 16
    ploeg says:

    I wasn’t in front of TV when the CBS studio people explained it, but I think I heard them say that the basic rationale is that they don’t want coaches getting in the grille of the refs for no good reason at a time when the refs have enough trouble keeping the players in line. So OK, fine, give the coach a penalty, but look at the play anyway.

  17. 17
    AA+ Bonds says:


    Read it. What do you have to lose?

  18. 18
    quannlace says:

    @AA+ Bonds:

    Jesus, I think the Lincoln/Douglas debates were shorter than that

  19. 19
    Maude says:

    @AA+ Bonds:
    I get bored easily. I don’t want to.
    I’m too stupid to understand it.
    Take your pick.

  20. 20
    Felonius Monk says:

    Redskins vs Cowboys: WTF? Why did he slide to the 1 yard line and not run it in the end zone? Just being nice? With only a 7 point lead it’s not like they’d be running up the score.

  21. 21
    cathyx says:

    @Maude: It’s like a book. On the comment section.

  22. 22
    1badbaba3 says:

    Jobbed or not, the Lions would fare much better if they paid more attention to their O-line. But they never do.

    @AA+ Bonds: Football nut here, but thanks for that. It should be written, said, and done.

  23. 23
    zach says:

    FYI, here’s the relevant rule: “[The booth replay official] must initiate a review before the next legal snap or kick and cannot initiate a review of any ruling against a team that commits a foul that delays the next snap.”

    Sort of odd since any defensive penalty delays the next snap. For example, if there’s a questionable touchdown pass on a play where there’s also a dead-ball late-hit on the receiver, is that reviewable? 15 yards seems like enough of a penalty, although 15 yard penalties on defenses that give up touchdowns are pretty worthless since they moved the kickoff; kicking teams should be able to apply the penalty after the return.

  24. 24

    Happy Thanksgiving, good people!

    My pie came out better than I had hoped. We’re back home now and watching Magic Mike on the DVD. All in all a good day.

  25. 25
    rammalamadingdong says:

    If I die tonight, know it was the mac & cheese that killed me. And I died with a smile.

  26. 26
    zach says:

    @Felonius Monk: If there was more time left (at least 1 minute), the only ways Dallas could win were if he’d scored and Dallas got 2 TDs w/ a recovered onside kick or if the Redskins fumbled the snap on the 1 after he slid. Sort of a reasonable logic to Hall’s move were it not for not having enough time on the clock for 4 plays.

  27. 27
    Yutsano says:

    @1badbaba3: That’s all well and good but FFS that is the very definition of TL;DR.

    Sitting at the table. Bacon and Brussels sprouts cooking and the sink is clogged. Oh and +1 and a Percocet so I’m not feeling a thing right now.

  28. 28
    Decreae Mather says:

    I thought attempting the field goal on 3rd down was lost as big a mistake by Swartz. Has my one seen that pay off? Gaining just a yard on the 3rd down play would have won it.

  29. 29
    Anonymous says:

    Nothing tasted sweeter this Thanksgiving than the sweet, succulent Cowboy tears.

    Happy Thanksgiving, all!

  30. 30
    Felonius Monk says:

    @zach: Certainly a very safe move on Hall’s part, but with only 11-12 sec left, I don’t think there was much Dallas could do and they could certainly never win it. Well, on to the Pats & Jets.

  31. 31
    ploeg says:

    @zach: Yeah. If you automatically review a scoring play, it’s the refs who are delaying the next snap to allow the review to go forward. A coach who throws the challenge flag needs to get his shit together, but the coach isn’t delaying the next snap.

  32. 32
    Yutsano says:

    @Felonius Monk: Bring on the Tebows!!

  33. 33
    PurpleGirl says:

    @Politically Lost: Ouch! It’s good you weren’t burned and you were able to save most of the food. Hope that when it finished being cooked, the meal was still great.

  34. 34
    Karl says:

    I don’t follow football. Not sure if this John bitching about a game or Tom Friedman talking about the globalization.

  35. 35

    If there is a rule, or if there are several rules, that include the phrase “a challenge flag shall not be thrown when . . .” how does a head coach not know these rules?

  36. 36

    @AA+ Bonds:

    I’d feel a lot better about that speech if I didn’t know that the Senator had spent the previous three years trying to destroy the Carter presidency. I’m probably being unfair, maybe even being an ass, but I never really forgave him for that.

  37. 37
    Decrease Mather says:

    @James E. Powell:

    He forgot them in the heat of the moment. Plus it’s a new rule this year.

    Still a dumb move by Schwartz, but that doesn’t excuse the dumb rule. And the officials may have thought the runner was down to begin with, but let the play go because it keeps replay in play.

  38. 38
    Yutsano says:

    @arguingwithsignposts: Bettman. Must. Die. And go T-Birds!

  39. 39
    Keith G says:

    What? No love for the Texans?

  40. 40
    1badbaba3 says:

    C’mon, youse guys. Are we going all JohnBoner here? Next you’ll be throwing the American Recovery Act on the floor of the House claiming you didn’t have time to read it.

    It’s not easy being Orange.

  41. 41
    Keith G says:

    @James E. Powell: Throughout the 80s and the 90s, Teddy became a stalwart warrior for the common good. As you suggest, before that time he was a barely controlled, id driven ass. He did a great service for the Reagan revolution.

  42. 42
    redshirt says:

    Having no TV for the first time ever, I’ve not watched a moment of football this year. Everything has come via radio or online updates.

    So I finally got to see RG3 play. Wow. What an arm. What an athlete. Impressive. That said, he seems on the small side, and if Vick is any lesson, he’s not gonna last long.

  43. 43
    Danny says:

    As a huge Texans fan I have to say that the rule is complete BS. What behavior are we penalizing? I understand why you’d penalize throwing the flag when a coach is out of challenges, but this is just silly.

    Of course, as a huge Texans fan, I have to point out that if the play had been reviewed that doesn’t guarantee the Lions would have won. It was too early in the game, and the Texans were only down by a touchdown, so I feel John is overreacting a bit in this post.

  44. 44
    PurpleGirl says:

    As someone who does not watch football nor knows much about it (despite a boyfriend trying his damnest to teach me), I sometimes do like to read the football threads. May not understand the technical stuff but I like the snark about players and teams. Carry on BJers, carry on.

  45. 45
    TheMightyTrowel says:

    @Yutsano: +1 and a Percocet so I’m not feeling a thing right now

    Your family clearly has the best thanksgiving menu ever.

    ETA: fucking grammar.

  46. 46
    magurakurin says:

    It’s already Black Friday here in Japan. Of course there is no Black Friday in Japan, nor Thanksgiving. Yesterday, Thursday, I worked 9 hours. Today actually is a holiday though (but I will work anyway…I work for myself) Labor Day, here in Japan. It used to weird me out how there was just absolutely no trace of Thanksgiving at all, but after so many years, I’ve more or less forgotten what Thanksgiving is anyway.

    And one more thing. Let’s not let the stores get away with changing the origin of Black Friday by saying the “black” means “black ink” because that’s when they turn a profit for the year. That’s bullshit on every level. It isn’t when they turn a profit(who believes that?) and it isn’t where the name came from. It came from Philadelphia police describing the cluster fuck that was (is) the day after Thanksgiving. The “black” in Black Friday should continue to hold it’s ominous tones that were intended and are deserved.

    Oh, and Fuck Walmart, too.

    No NFL here either. Just shitty J1 soccer, so quit yer bitchin’, it could be way worse for you sports fans…you could be talking about FIFA soccer rules…just shoot me….

  47. 47
    Decrease Mather says:

    But the penalty stands! Seems to me, if the TD was “never scored”, there was nothing to celebrate, and the penalty never happened either. Am/was I crazy to think that?

    Yeah, you are kind of crazy. If it’s unsportsmanlike conduct to over-celebrate, it is whether the TD stands or not.

    This reminds me of George Brett getting tossed out of the pine tar game for making a run at an ump. When they changed the call and re-started the game, he was still tossed.

  48. 48
    Comrade Jake says:


  49. 49
    scav says:

    @efgoldman: well, if a trial is declared a mistrial or judgement is overturned on a technicality, does,that mean the murder never occured? They were mistakenly unsportsmanlike,, that’s all.

  50. 50
    zach says:

    @ploeg: “A coach who throws the challenge flag needs to get his shit together, but the coach isn’t delaying the next snap.”

    That’s what I initially thought, but all possible booth reviews (except for last two minutes and overtime) come after stoppages that are similar to touchdowns and all dead-ball defensive penalties are similar to throwing the challenge flag. If the rule is applied at all it should be applied here I guess. I just think they need to change the rule so that it only applies in the last two minutes and during overtime on plays that aren’t automatically reviewed.

    There sometimes are scoring plays that in hindsight should have been reviewed, but the booth doesn’t have time to figure that out for whatever reason before the PAT is done. It’s conceivable throwing the flag or committing a more minor defensive penalty (intentional offsides on the PAT, say) could confer some advantage, but it almost never happens.

  51. 51
    MikeJ says:


    We have a long history of furnace breakdown or water heater failure on holiday weekends.

    Seattle tradition is power outages. I heard people on the news planning what to do if the power went out.

    I think we got it out of the way early this year. Two hour outage Tuesday.

  52. 52
    piratedan says:

    @Felonius Monk: most likely it was to allow RGIII the chance to do the victory formation in Dallas on Thanksgiving… call it one of those symbolic messages.

  53. 53
    zach says:

    @magurakurin: I don’t know kanji readings well enough to know if it’s accurate, but 勤労感謝の日 is “Labor Thanksgiving Day” according to Wiki and Google translate. So no turkey, but at least we get the day off to watch football.

  54. 54
    Mark B. says:

    @AA+ Bonds: TL;DR

  55. 55
    Comrade Jake says:


  56. 56
    scav says:

    @MikeJ: huh, power outages growing up were for New Years. ‘f course, that was usually followed by the ceremonial clearing away of the drunk who had run into an electric pole, but every so often we were lucky and it was wind or a rockfall that brought them down.

  57. 57
    redshirt says:

    How ’bout them Patriots! Or, conversely, wither thou, Jets?

  58. 58
    Laertes says:


    Yeah, you’re crazy. Unsportsmanlike conduct is unsportsmanlike conduct, even if, on reflection, you conclude that the players would most likely have not engaged in said conduct had they known how a penalty was going to turn out.

  59. 59
    redshirt says:

    @efgoldman: That was an awesome stretch of football.

    Watch though to see the Patriots go into Prevent D and give up 35 second half points.

  60. 60
    magurakurin says:

    @zach: Indeed. douroukansha no hi. Thanks to Labor Day. So, yeah, that’s kind of Thanksgiving. Cool. And there is sometimes NFL games on NHK Premium (I watch it with the “please pay you cheap bastard” message plastered on the left of the screen) and on our cable network there are NFL games, but they are tape delays. Of course, I never know who wins or loses, so sometimes we watch a quarter or two for ole times sake.

    No holiday for me, but the regular working stiffs have a three day weekend, so that’s pretty good, eh?

  61. 61
    Mark B. says:

    @efgoldman: cowboys almost came back from a similar halftime deficit. However, the Cowboys have a better QB. Just to be clear, I’m not saying that Romo is that good …

  62. 62
    1badbaba3 says:

    It would appear that the era of the Wrex is ovah. Unless they can conjure zombie Bill Walsh or clone Lombardi, it may be time to back the armoured money dump truck into Cowher’s driveway.

  63. 63
    PaulW says:

    The Jets are just getting KILLED against the Pats right now. I don’t see the coach surviving this season. Not even sure about Sanchez either, although it’s not (mostly) his fault.

    They should never have traded for The Tebow. Now, it’s not that Tebow is a bad player (he can be good in the right system…), but that Tebow brought with him the wrong kind of attention for a team already coping with dysfunction.

  64. 64
    PaulW says:

    @Mark B.:

    cowboys almost came back from a similar halftime deficit. However, the Cowboys have a better QB. Just to be clear, I’m not saying that Romo is that good

    The ‘Boys have the components of a good team, just not meshing them well. Dunno if the coach is the problem, but the lack of talent across the board and the overall malaise of the team is all on the owner. Jones needs to hire an independent GM and take a hands-off approach.

  65. 65
    redshirt says:

    LOL. Another touchdown for the Pats. Bye-Bye Jets.

    Writes in notebook: Game over.

  66. 66
    Mr Stagger Lee says:

    @efgoldman: And if Notre Dame loses to USC on Saturday, Mike and Mike will even more un-listenable. Well back to the Hatfields and McCoys on History.

  67. 67
    PaulW says:


    It would appear that the era of the Wrex is ovah. Unless they can conjure zombie Bill Walsh or clone Lombardi, it may be time to back the armoured money dump truck into Cowher’s driveway.

    Just as long as USF Bulls have a clean shot tempting Tony Dungy to coach a college team, I don’t care either way. ;-)

  68. 68
    PaulW says:

    At least middle school football games have a skunk rule, for mercy’s sake. The Jets should just quietly disband at halftime and let NBC broadcast that ‘Heidi’ movie again.

  69. 69
    PsiFighter37 says:

    Good God this game is ugly. As a Jets fan, this is slightly worse than par for the course.

  70. 70
    PaulW says:

    @Mr Stagger Lee:

    And if Notre Dame loses to USC on Saturday, Mike and Mike will even more un-listenable.

    How intolerable do you think Mike & Mike will be if Notre Dame WINS?! /headdesk

    There’s a reason God gave us 15+ years of peace. Why now, O Lord? WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN US?!

  71. 71
    PaulW says:

    HOLY SH-T they are both down! Oh man, that ain’t healthy.

  72. 72
    Quaker in a Basement says:

    Wasting a challenge on a play that’s going to be reviewed anyway seems like penalty enough.

  73. 73
    Comrade Jake says:

    @efgoldman: I swear he gets a hard-on for some player on the field every game he calls.

  74. 74
    Mr Stagger Lee says:

    @PaulW: God help us both if Notre Dame wins the BCS. I will guarantee all of you that there will be no discussion of the NFL playoffs it will be Irish all week. NBC Sports will be Notre Dame worship 24/7. FSM DAMN YOU GARY BETTMAN !!!

  75. 75
    Bubba Dave says:

    @PaulW: They have the offensive line of a good Division II team. That rarely leads to success outside Division II.

  76. 76
    Bostondreams says:


    – Recovered another Sanchez fumble and ran it back for a TD. 21-0.

    I would just like to note that the O-Lineman’s butt caused the fumble. Sanchez ran into his guy’s butt and got smacked to the ground.

    It was the perfect summary of the Jets season.

    Go Pats.

  77. 77
    Mark B. says:

    I can’t understand why Ash has been in the whole second half of the Texas game. McCoy needs to play and try to recapture some of his brothers magic.

  78. 78
    Yutsano says:

    @TheMightyTrowel: +3 now and nice and toasty. I’ll have to check how the NYD did playing poker in the barracks. He’s a card shark. :)

  79. 79
    Mark B. says:

    @efgoldman: They lost to Oklahoma by 40, but they’ve been on a mini winning streak. If they win out they’ll go to a BCS bowl. That isn’t going to happen.

  80. 80
    lacp says:

    Looks like another Ryan gasbag deflated. Being in Philadelphia, though, I should probably STFU about the Jets.

  81. 81
    redshirt says:

    @lacp: What is it with “The Ryans”? I swear, if you didn’t know better, based on TV time, Rob Ryan is the head coach of the Dallas Cowboys.

    I don’t get it.

  82. 82

    @Mr Stagger Lee: Normally I would be rooting for SC to stomp the bejeezus out of ND, but because both Golic and Lou Holtz have been even more insufferable than usual, I want an Irish win, so Bama can drop some reality on ’em.

  83. 83
    Mark B. says:

    McCoy throws a bad interception and ends the game. I think it’s time for Mack to retire.

  84. 84
    zach says:

    @magurakurin: “And there is sometimes NFL games on NHK Premium (I watch it with the “please pay you cheap bastard” message plastered on the left of the screen) and on our cable network there are NFL games, but they are tape delays.”

    I splurged on NFL Game Pass to keep me occupied till my shipment arrives from the States here in Okinawa. Not so bad and the condensed games are only 30 minutes long.

  85. 85

    @efgoldman: In that case, my condolences for your sore throat and state of silliness.

  86. 86
    1badbaba3 says:

    @PaulW: Sorry I missed this before, but you put Jerry Jones and hands off approach in the same sentence. I’ve had a few today, so my apologies if I missed the snark. Otherwise, I’ll have to throm the flag. It is to the benefit of the Anti-Cowboy Nation that he’s such a putz, thinking he’s both coach and GM. He’ll not change, and there’s no Mike Lynn out there to bail his ass out. Too bad, so sad. How ’bout ‘dem ‘Boyz?

  87. 87
    Bostondreams says:


    Yeah, if any team could blow a 35-0 lead, it’s a team with the Pats secondary. Sigh.

  88. 88
    Emdee says:

    Sorry I’m so late to this, but was out being actually festive and with humans and other unlikely occurrences.

    The challenge flag rule is the NFL’s fault. Before every scoring play was reviewed, the rule said that it was unsportsmanlike conduct and a 15-yard penalty if a coach threw a red flag on a play when he could not challenge that play: inside of 2:00 in each half, or he was out of either time-outs or challenges. (Note that they did not enforce this for plays that weren’t challengeable by football rule, such as down-by-contact, etc.—only for challenge flags that couldn’t work regardless of what just happened on the field.) They felt that throwing such flags were a clear attempt to delay the game or try to get the booth to review a play when a coach couldn’t, and they wanted it penalized. And not just 15 yards, but making sure that an attempt to “force” a challenge would never “work,” so the booth was then forbidden from reviewing the play that the coach improperly tried to challenge.

    But when they added automatic review of scoring plays, they just added that into the list of plays where the booth, not the coach, initiates a challenge. This did not consider the case when play was stopped because there had been a scoring play and the booth would be reviewing anyway, so by the letter of the rule, it meant that if a coach ever made this mistake it would be a big problem.

    Some people seem to have figured that out a month or so ago, but since the NFL doesn’t change rules in mid-season, they were just hoping it wouldn’t happen. They weren’t expecting Detroit.

    As for the NCAA rule that the player comes out for a down if the helmet pops off, suck it up Cole. They added this because too many of the kids were keeping the helmets on far too loosely for comfort, to the point where they weren’t adequately protecting the head. The rule makes them keep the helmets on tight enough to actually protect the head, and not so loose that the damn things do no good and pop off on every other down. If you’re against this rule, you’re objectively pro-concussion, as Putz would never say because he doesn’t care about Those People.

  89. 89

    […] John Cole gets it right: The Lions got totally jobbed by the only rule in football dumber than the helmet rule in the NCAA where someone has to leave the game because someone knocked the shit out of them and their helmet flew off. […]

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  1. […] John Cole gets it right: The Lions got totally jobbed by the only rule in football dumber than the helmet rule in the NCAA where someone has to leave the game because someone knocked the shit out of them and their helmet flew off. […]

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