The Great Brown Hope

Nobody mentioned Marco Rubio’s “I am not a scientist” remarks yesterday, so here goes: Reader JB sent this link to Commentary, where the commenters are pissed because Commentary’s Peter Wehner takes Rubio to task for denying reality. Check that out if you’re in a nutpicking mood.

As for Rubio in general, the thinking seems to be that Rubio is going to show Republicans the way out of the wilderness on immigration, and wash all their sins away by passing a watered-down version of the DREAM act or some other piece of “reform” legislation that is daring by Republican standards, and a half-measure by any other standard. That’s clearly why Rubio ended up in Iowa this week — he knows the tribe is reeling, and he wants his brown-eyed visage to be all over Fox to facilitate post-traumatic imprinting.

But back here in the actual physical world, where nobody gives a shit about 2016 and Latinos are still enjoying the feel of their newfound electoral muscle, Marco’s ACHIEVE Act is seen for the turd that it is. Latinos know that as long as a Democrat is in the White House, Obama’s executive order barring deportation of DREAM-eligible young people will stand. That took some of the immediate pressure off, so if the House Republicans block immigration reform, as they probably will, what’s pushing Democrats to take the first shit compromise Boehner throws down? Wouldn’t it be better politics, leading to better policy, to turn the 2014 election into a referendum on immigration reform?

Meanwhile, Louie Gohmert, Trent Franks, Michelle Bachmann and the rest will be holding Klan meetings on the House floor to discuss lazy Mexicans and their nefarious ways. His weak-ass “I’m not a scientist” performance in the hard-hitting GQ, of all places, is a pretty good indication that Rubio isn’t ready to stand up to the immigration shit show his party is about to stage. So spare me the Rubio 2016 talk until we see if he has a spine under that perfect suit.






260 replies
  1. 1
    Ben Grimm says:

    Rubio is really, really overrated. I saw a lot of him when he was in the Florida Legislature, and the only thing separating him from the life model decoys that populate the Republican party here is his last name. He follows orders well, and beat Crist because Crist wasn’t a tea partier, and the tea party was able to dictate terms.

    I don’t know that he’s ever run in a competitive election, since the senate seat was essentially handed to him and Legislative districts are hyper-gerrymandered here.

  2. 2
    Punchy says:

    From your Commentary link, this gem:

    One of the attributes of conservatism, at least as I understand it, is openness to evidence, including scientific evidence, and embracing reality

    Hahahahahahahahahahahaha! I just spit my Coke Zero over my keyboard.

    He’s either intentionally trolling his readers, or subtly clowning on the knuckledraggers. There’s no way he really believes this.

  3. 3
    aimai says:

    I’ve already received a hysterical NRO emission (don’t ask me why I get them all over my email) that is entitled something like

    Astronomical Debt Overshadowed By Geological Age Debate

    followed by a pissy little bitch fest.
    aimai

  4. 4
    c u n d gulag says:

    Rubio’s an empty suit.

    He’s a lot like Ryan – when you look for their intelligence, you find that there’s no there, there.

    He’s one of their tokens, so about the best you can say about him, is that he’s bright enough to realize that if he wanted to get into the politic’s business, he’d best do it as a Republican.
    Running as a Democrat, me might not get much above dog-catcher.

  5. 5
    Dork says:

    From the comments:

    According to the bible, the Earth was created in 6 days, but how did they measure days back then before there was even a sun? These “God-days” could stretch millions upon millions of years. So he needs to realize that you can believe in God and also believe the world is billions of years old at the same time. Obviously he hasn’t thought about it much.

    So the Earth was there before the sun? And there were, um, “people” on Earth “measuring days” without a source of heat/light/energy. Are 3rd graders allowed on political blogs, or are these the 27% I was warned about?

  6. 6
    Schlemizel says:

    When has a spine been required to get the GOP nomination? Did anyone mention that to Willard?

    I think they want another stealth candidate like Boy Blunder. Some useless door nob that people want to have a beer with and can toss BS phrases like “compassionate conservative” around as if they believed it.

    The wingnuts will all wink and nod because they know, the media will praise this great man of the moderate middle and if the voters are stupid enough to fall for it we’ll be back getting completely screwed again

  7. 7
    Cacti says:

    I always thought the GOP solution to immigration was to coerce immigrants into becoming cannon fodder for the MIC, or as I like to call it, “An Army of Juan”.

    Rubio can’t even get that part right.

  8. 8
    Anya says:

    He’s one of the worst. At least people like Aiken believe their own nonsense, aso their crap is from an actual conviction, not pandering. Rubio is catholic and his church does not teach creationism. I have friends who went to Catholic schools, and they were taught evolution.

    Maybe he should visit a Catholic University and see what their stand is on evolution.

    I cannot stand Rubio. He’s a prototype of college Republicans, smarmy, unprincipled lightweight.

  9. 9
    scav says:

    @Punchy: I think we found (one of) the problems. They can’t openly in public embrace anyone but their xian-married opposite sex wives in public. They have to go on long hikes on the AT in order to read Darwin and Lyell under the covers with a flaslight and “It’s only for the pictures.”

  10. 10
    Scott S. says:

    Rubio strikes me as Paul Ryan redux — lots of love from the GOP and the Villagers, but completely shallow and inexperienced. The first serious pressure from a real national campaign, and he’d fold like laundry.

  11. 11
    some guy says:

    Rubio is a serial liar. He lied about his parents (economic emigres, not political refugees) and he lies about his own positions.

    please please please nominate Rubio, and when they do maybe somebody could ask why 50% of Cuban voters in Florida wen for Obama?

  12. 12
    ding dong says:

    Marco rubio reminds me of john edwards and i dont even think hes a lawyer like edwards. edwards did have the gift of salesmanship. rubio advantage is his skin color. if i was a repub i would be working on susanna martinez or brian sandoval.

  13. 13

    Plus, Rubio’s Cuban, a group that comprises under 10% of US Hispanics, with a highly atypical experience comparatively. So even his superpower of being Latino isn’t all that great. It’s like the 08 GOP thinking Palin would peel off support from women. Doesn’t work that way, guys. We aren’t as tribal as you are. Politics does involve policy, you know, it’s not 100% marketing & Etch-a-Sketching.

  14. 14
    JPL says:

    Since Rubio is not a scientist, he’s going to ask for the opinion of his priest/minister. Yup, that makes some good republican sense.

  15. 15
    rlrr says:

    @JPL:

    Maybe he should consult with a Jesuit biologist ;)

  16. 16
    dmsilev says:

    @Dork: That dodge of “maybe a ‘day’ is really umpteen million years long” is actually a fairly common work-around used by several Christian denominations to reconcile the Biblical Creation story with accepted reality.

  17. 17
    MattF says:

    There’s also been a little Ted Cruz boom– note, though, that Cruz is an unreconstructed hard-core winger. What I expect is that, sooner or later, Latino Republicans will be seen in the same light as gay or AA Republicans. Deluded, and, somehow, missing the point.

  18. 18
    EconWatcher says:

    @Anya:

    I was taught evolution by a guy in a Roman collar in my Catholic boys’ high school. “This is what happened, but there’s still room for God,” the Brother who was teaching the class said.

  19. 19
    rlrr says:

    @dmsilev:

    An even easier work around is to treat it as bronze age mythology…

  20. 20
    gf120581 says:

    @ding dong: Not a bad comparison. I’ve also heard John Thune get the Edwards comparison (which is “Yeah, he looks good, but has he ever done anything?”).

    It’s true that Martinez and Sandoval are more substantial than Rubio, but neither of them are as “telegenic” as he is. The Republicans really want their own version of Obama and Rubio is the only one who supposedly has Obama’s charisma and youthful good looks combo. Bobby Jindel is too much like Howdy Doody/Kenneth the Page and Ted Cruz is, well, insane (not to mention born in Canada).

  21. 21
    Kane says:

    When all is said and done, I’ll be surprised if the GOP nominee is anyone other than Jeb or Christie.

  22. 22
    HG Hay says:

    This is wonderful:

    Bull’s eye on the globull warming religion of the left, David Thomson. How can we forget? With Gaia as the benevolent, but threatening deity, it has its high priesthood, The Goracle, catechisms which are taught in school, carbon credit indulgences, a Hot Hell and a Sustainable Heaven. Pilgrims go on eco tours and the faithful faithfully carry their dirty shopping bags and reusable coffee mugs, suffer heat and cold and collect sort, wash and de-label all their leavings, volunteering themselves as eager collectors of raw materials which they meekly hand over to mobster-controlled, unionized processors who in turn bill taxpayers for the expensive, energy-demanding and totally useless process of “recycling .”

    And they think they are rationalists.

  23. 23
    Keith says:

    Few Latinos will forget Rubio’s long-time support of the fight against Taco-Neck Syndrome when 2016 rolls around.

  24. 24
    gf120581 says:

    @MattF: Ted Cruz has two major strikes against him.

    1. He wasn’t born in this country (born in Canada).

    2. He’s insane. Seriously, this is a man who believes Sharia Law is a serious threat to the US and that George Soros is conspiring with the UN to seize all our golf courses. He’s completely out there.

  25. 25
    Cacti says:

    @MattF:

    There’s also been a little Ted Cruz boom—note, though, that Cruz is an unreconstructed hard-core winger. What I expect is that, sooner or later, Latino Republicans will be seen in the same light as gay or AA Republicans. Deluded, and, somehow, missing the point.

    The problem with the GOP and their minority candidates in general, is that the winger base and establishment isn’t interested in the blacks or browns having a seat at the table and a voice in the process.

    They want a black or brown face to cheerlead for the “whites first” agenda, and guard dog against accusations of racism.

  26. 26
    Ben Grimm says:

    @Kane:

    Christie’s pro-gun control. I don’t think it’s going to be him. I think the GOP would nominate a Muslin gay-married to an illegal immigrant before they nominated someone who supports gun control.

  27. 27
    Cacti says:

    @Kane:

    When all is said and done, I’ll be surprised if the GOP nominee is anyone other than Jeb or Christie.

    Or maybe Scott Walker or Mitch Daniels.

  28. 28
    redshirt says:

    There is no better example of the insanity that has infected the Repuke party and thus our nation and the world than this anti-science agenda. That ostensibly intelligent people must deny the basics of established science for political reasons is flabbergasting, and yet here we are, and it only seems to get more entrenched each year.

    This cannot continue.

  29. 29
    schrodinger's cat says:

    Rubio is not going to win over many Latinos or other immigrants for that matter. What makes him brown? His last name? He looks pretty white to me.

  30. 30
    RSA says:

    the commenters are pissed because Commentary’s Peter Wehner takes Rubio to task for denying reality

    Pretty funny that “How old do you think the Earth is?” is viewed as a trick question. See also “What newspapers and magazines did you regularly read?” and “Do you support access to abortion in the case of rape?”

    Damn those liberal interviewers!

  31. 31
    Kane says:

    @Ben Grimm: Once upon a time Romney was also pro-gun control. If we have learned anything from this past election, it is that republicans don’t seem to mind if their candidates flip-flop and etch-a-sketch their way to the nomination.

  32. 32
    amk says:

    2016 ? Really?

  33. 33
    RaflW says:

    @Punchy: One of the attributes of conservatism, at least as I understand it, is openness to evidence, including scientific evidence, and embracing reality

    Coupled with Brooksie’s Since Nov. 6, the G.O.P. has experienced an epidemic of open-mindedness I’ll go out on a limb and suggest that these wankers have no idea what is right in front of them.

    That Commentary thread is really good, btw. I ‘thumbs up’d some of the jucier moron-rants. Egg ’em on. They haven’t struck the righthand ditch with sufficient force yet.

  34. 34
    Thlayli says:

    @ding dong:

    i dont even think hes a lawyer like edwards

    He has a law degree, I don’t know if he ever practiced.

  35. 35
    redshirt says:

    @RSA: Asking any sincere question to a Republican is now a “gotchya” question. Only questions from the Right Wing media are allowed, along the lines of:

    “Mr Rubio, your campaign seems to have the momentum of a runaway train. Why are you so popular?”

  36. 36
    nancydarling says:

    I happen to be Anglo, but if I were Hispanic, I think I would be insulted by the repubs thinking they can just throw any brown (sort of) guy who can roll his r’s on to the national stage and I would fall for him.

  37. 37
    kindness says:

    Went to the Commentary link & read the comments.

    Those folk are nutz. I mean, they call belief that global warming could be a human affected idea ‘anti-science’ and in the same breath suggest the fundie belief of a 6000 year old universe should be equivalent to other scientific theories regarding the universe. And the whole time they are furiously patting themselves on the back for being the only truly enlightened and open minded geeks around.

    Talk about unclear on the concept of science. Conservatism, when did it become equivalent to ‘I can make up my own facts and they are better than what others may say’? These are folks that would have called for Galileo’s murder for heresy.

  38. 38
    RSA says:

    @redshirt:

    Asking any sincere question to a Republican is now a “gotchya” question.

    Exactly. Of course, you can’t prevent Republicans from messing up on their own. And I forgot to mention that Rubio is being quite Reaganesque. People my age may remember this:

    I have flown twice over Mt St. Helens out on our west coast. I’m not a scientist and I don’t know the figures, but I have a suspicion that that one little mountain has probably released more sulfur dioxide into the atmosphere of the world than has been released in the last ten years of automobile driving or things of that kind that people are so concerned about.

    Reagan was only off by a factor of 40 in the wrong direction.

  39. 39
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    @Dork: Please go read Genesis, and realize that this is Moses relaying God’s description of creation. Moses was probably the smart one of the group, but considering he hadn’t taken astrophysics, chemistry, or biology, God would have had to simplify it. Then, when Moses relates it to the rest of the Jews, it would have to be further simplified.

  40. 40
    schrodinger's cat says:

    Comprehensive immigration reform will go nowhere. If miraculously something passes in the Congress it will go and die in the Senate. They are going to have to do it piece-meal.

    Most GOPers will be against legalization of the undocumented workers and Senators Grassley, Sanders and Durbin will be against any thing that makes the legal immigration less of a hassle skilled immigrants.

    So very little will happen.

  41. 41
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    I don’t know if we want to make 2014 a referendum on immigration unless we can figure out a way to get most of the Hispanics registered and get Democrats to vote like they do in presidential elections.

  42. 42
    gbear says:

    Louie Gohmert, Trent Franks, Michelle Bachmann and the rest

    Has anyone compiled a list of the truely batshit, completely detatched-from-reality house and senate members since the election? What kind of numbers are in the crazy caucus now? This is for the ones that are really nuts, not just the ones following along. I think Louie and Michelle top the list.

    MN got rid of one last election, and now Alan West is gone too.

  43. 43
    schrodinger's cat says:

    A new trick question for rising GOP stars, do you think Galileo was right about the earth and the sun?

  44. 44
    Shawn in ShowMe says:

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent):

    God would have had to simplify it. Then, when Moses relates it to the rest of the Jews, it would have to be further simplified.

    Or God could have simply created human beings smart enough to understand physics.

  45. 45
    James K. Polk, Esq. says:

    Want to see the visage of a vanquished man?

    Romney pumps his own gas?!?

  46. 46
    rlrr says:

    @gbear:

    Has anyone compiled a list of the truely batshit, completely detatched-from-reality house and senate members since the election?

    Just look for members with an “R” after their name.

  47. 47
    redshirt says:

    I hope we can take this right back to flat earth/round earth “debates”. Teach the controversy! World looks flat to me! Does it look flat to you? Who you gonna believe? LIBERALS? Or your own eyes?

  48. 48
    Ben Grimm says:

    @Kane:

    I don’t think Christie is a leaf in the wind like Romney. Romney’s spinelessness was part of his appeal; Christie’s refusal to bend is a large part of his.

  49. 49
    Culture of Truth says:

    Nobody mentioned Marco Rubio’s “I am not a scientist” remarks yesterday

    I did :) I got it from Paul Krugman.

  50. 50
  51. 51
    Napoleon says:

    @Dork:

    So the Earth was there before the sun? And there were, um, “people” on Earth “measuring days” without a source of heat/light/energy. Are 3rd graders allowed on political blogs, or are these the 27% I was warned about?

    I went to a Catholic grade school, which taught that the earth was billions of years old and evolution occured and this type of answer is how they squared it with the bible.

  52. 52
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @Napoleon: I went to a Catholic school till 10th grade and we were taught about evolution and stellar formation. God and Jeebus were left for the religion class, which you didn’t have to take if you were not Catholic. My school was run by Jesuits.

  53. 53
    eric says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: jesuits will soon go the way of dinosaurs if Ratzy has his way….

  54. 54
    gbear says:

    @Dork:

    These “God-days” could stretch millions upon millions of years

    That God, he’s such a procrastinator. His kid too. What is he, like, 2000-some years late for his next meeting. I’ve had a woman tell me that it wasn’t important to floss because Jesus would get here before her teeth rotted (true story). He’s really in need of a reliable personal manager.

  55. 55
    redshirt says:

    @Napoleon: I am not religious in the least and would like to see all “God Talk” swept into the dustbin of history, but! It seems very easy to reconcile God with any and all science findings. Big Bang? God did it. Evolution? God created a system that can evolve to more perfectly worship Him. Global Warming? God gave us this perfect Earth but in our Sin we’ve abused it and are sending ourselves to Hell.

    Etc etc.

  56. 56
    Felonius Monk says:

    Earth to Rubio: I Am as Old as Dirt!

  57. 57
    Culture of Truth says:

    I predict the 2016 GOP nominee will be Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer

  58. 58
    rlrr says:

    @Culture of Truth:

    Nope, an unfrozen caveman would be evidence the earth is more than 6,000 years old….

  59. 59
    J says:

    @HG Hay: That’s excellent. If it had worked in reference to dark Kenyan doings, Islam, socialism and Benghazi it would be perfect.

  60. 60
    Napoleon says:

    @Shawn in ShowMe:

    Or God could have simply created human beings smart enough to understand physics.

    I am willing to bet Moses was, but since Hebrew schools of the era did not teach all the necessary precursers to learning physics, let alone the fact that culturally anything in physics would have been so far removed from how he experianced the world, problems a Jewish person in the last, say, 100 or so years (lets call this Jewish person Einstein) would not have had.

  61. 61
    hueyplong says:

    If Scott Walker manages to dodge the issuance of any indictments as a result of the grand jury investigations Charlie Pierce about which keeps teasing us, he’d be someone who would have a shot at the 2016 nomination. Presumably, Koch bros money would float him in a manner that would make Sandy Alderson look like small potatoes, and Walker would be a guy who could brag that he “took the liberals’ best shots” and survived to carry the winger flag forward toward that bright Dickensian future to which we as Americans are entitled.

    Pierce seems confident about the grand jury, but at first he was pretty confident about the recall, too.

    I’m concentrating a large percentage of my malevolent thoughts and wishes on Scott Walker.

  62. 62
    Napoleon says:

    @redshirt:

    You see things exactly as I do. I am not a believer but I do not see (and didn’t while I was still a believer) any real inconsistency between the bible and modern understandings of biology and physics. God did not talk to Moses to give him a science lesson, and even if he wanted to short of using magic powers to give Moses the ability to understand the real explanation God would have been stuck with giving a story book version of reality. Big deal, who reads the bible for science.

  63. 63
    Citizen_X says:

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    A new trick question for rising GOP stars, do you think Galileo was right about the earth and the sun?

    Just add “…or do you think the Bible was right?” and there’ll be only one way they can possibly answer.

  64. 64
    NotMax says:

    Gonna do 2 posts, as there are 4 decent links (and FYWP chokes on more than 3) which touch on known skeletons in Rubio’s closet, all of which (and who knows what else) will dog him and be subject to much deeper investigation and wider dissemination if/when he should choose to step into the center ring.

    His cozy relationship with the just defeated for re-election shady sleazebag David Rivera.

    Some more.

  65. 65
    lgerard says:

    What a laugh to see someone like Peter Wehner criticize others for not accepting reality. He is one of the deadest of the Iraq dead enders. I vividly recall his appearance on CSPAN’s Washington Journal exactly 5 years ago, when he spouted the myths of WMDs and Saddam’s complicity in the 911 attacks.

    Every single caller from across the political spectrum called him a liar and a fool, and 3 of them explicitly expressed a desire to “punch him in the face”

    Good times.

  66. 66
    Citizen_X says:

    @Napoleon: Moses was a smart guy, but given that he couldn’t find his way out of the Sinai, he seems to have been a bit spatially challenged…

  67. 67
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Dork:

    It’s allegory.

    Something that the fundies do not get as a concept.

  68. 68
    burnspbesq says:

    @eric:

    jesuits will soon go the way of dinosaurs if Ratzy has his way….

    He won’t.

  69. 69
    rlrr says:

    @Citizen_X:

    I find it odd the events described in Exodus were largely unnoticed by the Egyptians…

  70. 70
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @Citizen_X: Someone should put this question to Ryan the “policy wonk”.

  71. 71
    NotMax says:

    And the other 2 links, as mentioned in #64:

    Rubio’s, shall we say, wide latitude in use of a party credit card.

    Some more.

    The smells-of-the-swamp pattern of behavior and total lack of remorse evinced by Rubio’s activities is evident. What else may come out that occurred during his time in the Senate is anyone’s guess right now.

  72. 72
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Napoleon:

    Big deal, who reads the bible for science.

    Let’s see…Franklin Graham, Pat Robertson, Donald Wildmon, James Dobson, Benny Hinn…need I go on?

  73. 73
    Balconesfault says:

    @Dork: Sadly, that was one of the most reasonable of the comments in that thread…

  74. 74
    mikeyes says:

    Not the Bible, but from the Declaration of Independence concerning immigration (and King George III):

    “He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.”

    Like many who are Bible literalists, inconvenient passages are ignored or forgotten. The Declaration was pro-immigration in order to both further individual liberty and to enhance the country by supporting immigrants who, for the most part, add value to the population. The signers knew this and Jefferson put it in the document for that reason.

    America is greater beacause of immigration (and in spite of the Nativists) and there is no denying that fact – even Senator Rubio knows this.

  75. 75
    burnspbesq says:

    In other news, the Islamic Center of Murfreesboro (remember them?) officially opened on Sunday.

    It’s a little depressing that the local U.S. Attorney and a senior official from DOJ were honored guests at the ceremony, but at least there was a ceremony. Any time the mouth-breathers lose is a good time to celebrate.

    http://www.dnj.com/article/201.....ck_check=1

  76. 76
    rlrr says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Also, all the candidates competing in the 2012 Republican Presidential primary except John Huntsman.

  77. 77
    Emma says:

    @eric: I’m betting on the Society. They’ve outlasted EVERYONE who’s wanted them gone.

  78. 78
    Balconesfault says:

    @Citizen_X: He and the Israelis were clearly among the “takers” … willing to go wherever the free manna was, without worrying about the ultimate destination …

  79. 79
    Culture of Truth says:

    Speaking of science, I heard a rumor that NASA is sitting a big discovery on Mars. Could it be proof of life?

  80. 80
    burnspbesq says:

    @hueyplong:

    Sandy Alderson look like small potatoes

    As a Met fan, let me assure you that Sandy Alderson is indeed small potatoes.

    Sheldon Adelson, on the other hand, …

  81. 81
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @redshirt:

    That ostensibly intelligent people must deny the basics of established science for political reasons is flabbergasting, and yet here we are, and it only seems to get more entrenched each year.

    It’s a lot like living under Stalin.

    I don’t think the “conservatives” realize this, but it is.

  82. 82
    NotMax says:

    @Villago Delenda Est

    Also too, any number of the suddenly sprung up charter schools at which Jindal is throwing money in Louisiana, stunting and polluting the minds of the next generation.

  83. 83
    mattH says:

    5 comments threaded in and “Casey of Pennsylvnia” rears it’s head. No evidence ever pierces the bubble.

  84. 84
    hueyplong says:

    @burnspbesq:

    I am often outed as someone who pays more attention to baseball than politics.

  85. 85
    dantoujours says:

    @Anya:

    Rubio as a Catholic should remember the words of St. Augustine (410 AD):

    It not infrequently happens that something about the earth, about the sky, about other elements of this world, about the motion and rotation or even the magnitude and distances of the stars, about definite eclipses of the sun and moon, about the passage of years and seasons, about the nature of animals, of fruits, of stones, and of other such things, may be known with the greatest certainty by reasoning or by experience, even by one who is not a Christian. It is too disgraceful and ruinous, though, and greatly to be avoided, that he [the non-Christian] should hear a Christian speaking so idiotically on these matters, and as if in accord with Christian writings, that he might say that he could scarcely keep from laughing when he saw how totally in error they are.

    — De Genesi ad literam 1:19–20, Chapt. 19 [408]

  86. 86
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @NotMax:

    It’s interesting that the Jeebofascists realized, a bit late, that their charter schools law was written in such a way that it would allow madrassas to be set up in Louisiana and be taxpayer subsidized just like the Jeebofascist schools.

    Doh!

  87. 87
    Xecky Gilchrist says:

    But back here in the actual physical world, where nobody gives a shit about 2016 and Latinos are still enjoying the feel of their newfound electoral muscle,

    Who was the doofwad who kept shrieking in the comments here before the election that the latin@s wouldn’t turn out and never did?

    Have they STFUed yet?

  88. 88
    Tone in DC says:

    …George Soros is conspiring with the UN to seize all our golf courses.

    LULz.
    His lack of sanity is just conformity with 95% of the G00pers (self deportation, moar and bigger wars etc.)

  89. 89
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @aimai:

    Astronomical Debt Overshadowed By Geological Age Debate

    Astronomical debt provided to you by the deserting coward, through both his tax cuts for the parasite overclass, and his excellent adventures in western Asia.

  90. 90
    Xecky Gilchrist says:

    @Punchy: One of the attributes of conservatism, at least as I understand it, is openness to evidence, including scientific evidence, and embracing reality

    This is true enough, if the scientific evidence or reality are received from an ideologically-correct source and conform to wingnut preconceptions.

  91. 91
    ArchPundit says:

    He’s a fucking Catholic–they accept evolution for fuck’s sake
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C....._evolution

    The Church has deferred to scientists on matters such as the age of the earth and the authenticity of the fossil record. Papal pronouncements, along with commentaries by cardinals, have accepted the findings of scientists on the gradual appearance of life. In fact, the International Theological Commission in a July 2004 statement endorsed by Cardinal Ratzinger, then president of the Commission and head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, now Pope Benedict XVI, includes this paragraph:

    According to the widely accepted scientific account, the universe erupted 15 billion years ago in an explosion called the ‘Big Bang’ and has been expanding and cooling ever since. Later there gradually emerged the conditions necessary for the formation of atoms, still later the condensation of galaxies and stars, and about 10 billion years later the formation of planets. In our own solar system and on earth (formed about 4.5 billion years ago), the conditions have been favorable to the emergence of life. While there is little consensus among scientists about how the origin of this first microscopic life is to be explained, there is general agreement among them that the first organism dwelt on this planet about 3.5–4 billion years ago. Since it has been demonstrated that all living organisms on earth are genetically related, it is virtually certain that all living organisms have descended from this first organism. Converging evidence from many studies in the physical and biological sciences furnishes mounting support for some theory of evolution to account for the development and diversification of life on earth, while controversy continues over the pace and mechanisms of evolution.[5]

    That’s from Benedict himself. The Church has compared creationism to paganism. Rubio doesn’t understand his own faith.

  92. 92
    feebog says:

    Rubio is a lightweight and as Notmax has demonstrated in his links, has some ‘splainin’ to do on several fronts. The guy who concerns me is Christie. Yeah, yeah, I know all the arguments; too fat, too nasty, comes from a liberal state, too cozy with Obama. None of that matters. If he wins re-election in 2013 I make him the favorite for 2016.

    First, say what you want about the guy, he has demonstrated a level of competence during hurricane Sandy rarely seen in a Republican. Second, the guy is genuine. That is not to say he isn’t a dick and a bully, he is. But he makes no bones about it, and he makes no apologies. Third, he is one of the few potential candidates who will stand up to the real crazies in the Republican party. That is going to make him very attractive to the money guys, who know that the crazies are going to keep pulling the party so far to the right they will never win another presidential election.

  93. 93
    ruemara says:

    Here’s your boatload of butthurt for the day. Or at least the morning. http://www.wnd.com/2012/11/how.....l-college/

  94. 94
    👽 Martin says:

    Wife informs me that my mom isn’t talking to me for a bit. Mom sent me what she thought was a safe right-wing chain email about a train setting a bridge on fire and being destroyed because of government rules. It was a lie. I replied with an article about the true cause of the accident and decided to make something of a polite point, that conservatives need to stop resorting to lies to bolster their ideological case. It makes them look gullible and dishonest – particularly when every single email, easily identified, is bullshit.

    I guess she’s a bit butthurt.

  95. 95
    Shawn in ShowMe says:

    @Napoleon:

    God did not talk to Moses to give him a science lesson, and even if he wanted to short of using magic powers to give Moses the ability to understand the real explanation God would have been stuck with giving a story book version of reality

    Magic powers aren’t necessary. Slightly larger brains would have done the trick.

  96. 96
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @ruemara:

    That fuckhead had better share that shit he’s smoking, or with FSM as my witness, I’m calling the narcs on his ass.

  97. 97
    jayjaybear says:

    @burnspbesq: Agreed. A fair number of popes (as well as a fair number of extra-hierarchical enemies) have tried to end the Jesuits historically, and it’s pretty obvious that it’s never actually worked.

    You just don’t mess with the Jesuits.

  98. 98
    jayjaybear says:

    @burnspbesq: Agreed. A fair number of popes (as well as a fair number of extra-hierarchical enemies) have tried to end the Jesuits historically, and it’s pretty obvious that it’s never actually worked.

    You just don’t mess with the Jesuits.

  99. 99
    👽 Martin says:

    So, California’s carbon auction went well. They sold all of the allowances. The average price was just over the minimum, but that’s okay. They’ll hold auctions every 3 months, and it should raise $1B per year in revenue for the state, and help further lower our per-capita CO2 output.

    Assuming the world doesn’t end here, we may see some other states jump on board. California is trying to get other states to participate in the auction.

  100. 100
    Cmm says:

    @Napoleon:

    Exactly. Our version of it was the nun being asked if evolution/big bang etc is “ungodly” because Genesis, and she said, okay say everything did start from a dust cloud that blew up. Who made the dust? Who made the rules of what would happen after a Big Bang?” end of controversy, at least for the believers in the class. Made perfect sense to me at the time. I tend to waver between agnostic and atheist but even so it is an argument that still works for me.

    You can have a much longer discussion on how god created light and dark and periods of day and night but didnt create the sun and the moon and stars until several days in.

  101. 101
    rlrr says:

    @Cmm:

    Where did God come from?

  102. 102
    Shawn in ShowMe says:

    @feebog:

    First, say what you want about the guy, he has demonstrated a level of competence during hurricane Sandy rarely seen in a Republican. Second, the guy is genuine. That is not to say he isn’t a dick and a bully, he is. But he makes no bones about it, and he makes no apologies. Third, he is one of the few potential candidates who will stand up to the real crazies in the Republican party.

    The only point that matters is can he “stand up to the real crazies” and win a primary election. How will this be done? Will he have them physically removed from the debates? Will he bully creationists into accepting the findings of science? Will he convince NRA fanboys that gun control is a nifty idea? I need to see the evidence.

  103. 103
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Ben Grimm:

    I don’t think Christie is a leaf in the wind like Romney. Romney’s spinelessness was part of his appeal; Christie’s refusal to bend is a large part of his.

    It would take a stiff breeze to lift the Christie leaf, that’s for sure. And for “refusal” read “inability.”

  104. 104
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @rlrr:

    He was created by Joss Whedon.

  105. 105
    👽 Martin says:

    @rlrr: From God. On the 3rd day he builds a time machine, goes back in time, and stays there. On the 4th day he destroys the time machine so it doesn’t fall in the wrong hands.

  106. 106
    Cmm says:

    Thats when I went all Star Trek and suggested that what we think of as God may be some sort of alien intelligence so far beyond ours that it seems supernatural, and our universe is its version of an ant farm that it watches. Then I got kicked out of religion class for being a smart ass. Again.

  107. 107
    Cmm says:

    Thats when I went all Star Trek and suggested that what we think of as God may be some sort of alien intelligence so far beyond ours that it seems supernatural, and our universe is its version of an ant farm that it watches. Then I got kicked out of religion class for being a smart ass. Again.

  108. 108
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Shawn in ShowMe:

    “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.”

    Arthur C. Clarke

  109. 109
    rlrr says:

    @Cmm:

    The universe is actually a historical simulation run by post-human scientists…

  110. 110
    El Cid says:

    Save us Marco Rubio! You’re our only hope!

  111. 111
    scav says:

    @rlrr: trick question. GOD didn’t create GPS until later in the week because he forgot where he parked his time machine (why do you think the angels have the phone box is pre-wired into our neurons?). Whole thing about destroying it was spin.

  112. 112
    Lurking Canadian says:

    @Shawn in ShowMe: Moses (assuming there was such a person) was a fully modern H. sap just like you and me. He didn’t need a bigger brain. What he needed was twelve years of primary and secondary schooling. Compressing that into a few sentences would indeed have required magic.

    God did not talk to Moses to give him a science lesson, and even if he wanted to short of using magic powers to give Moses the ability to understand the real explanation God would have been stuck with giving a story book version of reality. Big deal, who reads the bible for science.

    I have heard some atheists say, “If God wanted us to believe the Bible was his true unerrant word, he could have put something in there that only made sense to us.”

    Like:
    12. Jehosaphat begat Jeroboam.
    13. Jeroboam begat Moab.
    14. Know ye that the product of the uncertainties in position and momentum is constant.
    15. Moab begat …

  113. 113
    jibeaux says:

    @👽 Martin: Remind me to hug my mom this Thanksgiving and be thankful she just sends me emails about what color curtains do I like better.

  114. 114
    Cmm says:

    @rlrr:

    I also got kicked out once for arguing in favor or reincarnation by asserting that reincarnation makes perfect sense if our world is the Purgatory that Catholics believe you go to after death if you haven’t been good enough to go straight to heaven. There is nothing other than Dante that says that Purgatory is a separate place entirely from earth and heaven, just “where you go when you die.”.

    I spent a good amount of time in the hall outside religion class but I still think the reincarnation one was a good theory. Plus since Catholics spend a lot of time praying for the “poor souls in Purgatory” it makes sense of senseless seeming deaths of babies–they were reincarnated for another pass but someone’s prayers got that soul out of purgatory so they left…

  115. 115
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @El Cid: Are you wearing cinnamon buns in your hair?

  116. 116
    Cmm says:

    @rlrr:
    I like that one…kind of like we are all inside the Matrix after all…

  117. 117
    El Cid says:

    Maybe the God of the Old Testament just didn’t feel like explaining the whole thing to these god-awful tribesmen anyway.

    They wouldn’t get it, and it would take valuable time away from smiting.

  118. 118
    Cmm says:

    @Lurking Canadian:

    Oh man, would the Talmudic scholars have had a field day with that!

  119. 119
    Anoniminous says:

    @Lurking Canadian:

    I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.

    You shall have no other gods before me.

    The Speed of Light is 186,000 miles per second

    You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

    (etc.)

  120. 120
    sherparick says:

    @ArchPundit: There is a movement (at least in American Ultra-rich, Ultra-reactionary circles) of more Conservative Catholics (we Papists refer to these folks as “more Catholic than the Pope”) to walk back the Church’s conditional acceptance of the Theory of Natural Selection on the Origins of Species (what we in short hand call “Evolution”).

    Of course, Rubio is not thinking about Catholics, he is thinking about Iowa and Evangelicals when he decides to retrat back to the 17th century. Apparently 47% of Americans are as crazy as loons and believe Bishoap Ussher’s 17th century guess that the world started in 4003 BCE, and in the Iowa Republican primary I bet it runs close to 90%.

    Among the Evangelicals I have found at some of their web sites a great unhappiness with St. Augustine because of his rejection of the literal interpretation of scripture. It is a core belief among these people that “The Bible” is it, and prexisted the Church (that the Bible did not exist in its present form until the 5th century C.E., and was assembled by the Church over a series of Church councils is considered another of the Devil’s lies (even though one of the Bible’s most famous books, Job, show that God and Satan appear to be on the best of terms).

    The problems of the modern consrvative movement and the Republican Party is that the grifting and conning have become the raison d’etre for most of these pols and consulttants. Look at the millions these folks made fr themselves in the 2010 and 2012 campaigns. As far as these people or concern, 2012 went splendidly.

  121. 121
    Lurking Canadian says:

    @rlrr: I once saw an argument that this is almost certainly the case. It went something like this:

    1) Assume computing power will one day be available to simulate the entire universe.

    2) Assuming such computing power is one day available, Moore’s law will mean everybody can eventually have it on their desktop.

    3) Since everybody has UniverseSim on their desktop, kids will be assigned Universal Simulations as homework.

    4) There are billions of kids, therefore there will one day be billions of Universal Simulation programs running.

    Now, what are the odds that you live in the one (1) single actual corporeal universe, and not in one of those billions of simulations?

    I am…unconvinced by certain pieces of this syllogism, but it’d probably be good after a few hits of the really righteous weed.

  122. 122
    PurpleGirl says:

    @Thlayli: Did he pass the Florida bar exam? Did he pass it the first time or take it multiple times?

  123. 123
    Cmm says:

    @El Cid:

    He did create humans with big enough brains to understand it, just not right away. Do you start dungeon quest or whatever with a giant full treasurebox and stocked armory? No, you have to go on quests and fight past monsters and bosses and do side quests to accumulate the stuff that makes you a stronger and stronger player. We are just playing a version that takes multiple generations…

  124. 124
    Keith G says:

    Another post talking about the perfidy of the GOP and not developing the next concrete policy efforts of the Democrats.

  125. 125
    El Cid says:

    @Lurking Canadian: This just reinforces the fact that there needs to be more testing to assess God’s qualifications as a teacher; otherwise He just does the minimum necessary for Him to do to collect His paycheck and wait until He can retire, whether or not His students ever go on to achieve any success from their education.

  126. 126
    Lurking Canadian says:

    @Anoniminous:

    The Speed of Light is 186,000 miles per second

    It’s not just a good idea. It’s the Law.

  127. 127
    Shawn in ShowMe says:

    @Lurking Canadian:

    Moses (assuming there was such a person) was a fully modern H. sap just like you and me. He didn’t need a bigger brain. What he needed was twelve years of primary and secondary schooling.

    And if he had a bigger brain he wouldn’t have needed twelve years of primary and secondary schooling.

    Here’s an observation from Neil DeGrasse Tyson: We share 98-99% DNA with the chimpanzee. Everything that distinguishes us from chimps emerges from that 1% difference in DNA. Maybe the difference between constructing and launching a Hubble telescope and a chimp combining two finger motions as sign language isn’t all that great.

    Imagine another life form that is 1% difference from us? What are we to them? We would be blithering idiots in their presence.

  128. 128
    quannlace says:

    Saw a story over at Daily Kos, basically saying the Republican party mucky-mucks are still pissed off at Chris Christie. Lots of moaning about how this will hurt his chances in 2016. “We won’t forget this!”
    Right, Repubs. God forbid you should nominate someone who might appeal to a majority of voters. Since Sandy, Christie’s approval has gone through the roof in this very Blue state of New Jersey.

  129. 129
    Lurking Canadian says:

    @El Cid: We need vouchers and an end to Divine Tenure.

  130. 130
    El Cid says:

    @Keith G:
    __

    Another post talking about the perfidy of the GOP and not developing the next concrete policy efforts of the Democrats.

    I’m just shooting in the dark, here, but I’m pretty sure there is one, maybe even more fora where people discuss such things.

    I don’t understand why it would be such a failure or crime that there would exist blogs with silly names (i.e., Balloon-Juice) where people may argue about such things but just as if not more frequently visit for snark and entertainment.

    At least I know that I can find such places — and go to them when I desire.

    Given precedent as to the discussions here, would you want this blog cited as the go-to place for Democratic Party policy aims?

  131. 131
    Cassidy says:

    @Keith G: I hear Blogger is free. You could name it “Hi. I’m Keith G. and I approve this message. I got the magic in me…”. I know, it’s a little long.

  132. 132
    rlrr says:

    @Anoniminous:

    More likely 800,000,000,000,000 cubits/fortnight…

  133. 133
    Napoleon says:

    @Lurking Canadian:

    I have heard some atheists say, “If God wanted us to believe the Bible was his true unerrant word, he could have put something in there that only made sense to us.

    Really? I guess there are some pretty stupid people out there.

    This is kind of a riff off of something said up thread but pretty much how I view religion arose as a 7 year old stepping on ants in my driveway. It suddenly occurred to me that the vengeful God model was surely wrong for the same reason it got boring stepping on ants and that if I suddenly needed to explain to ants how the solar system works I would have to come up with something ants were capable of understanding.

  134. 134
    Cmm says:

    @Keith G:

    Wow, you are right! I suggest you demand your subscription fee to be refunded (pro rated of course) and take your business elsewhere.

    I said good day, sir!

  135. 135
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @El Cid:

    Given precedent as to the discussions here, would you want this blog cited as the go-to place for Democratic Party policy aims?

    Policy aim #1: Preservation and expansion of the schadenfreude reserves.

  136. 136
    Elizabelle says:

    @James K. Polk, Esq.:

    I appreciate that Romney pumps his own gas. It’s humanizing.

    ETA: Although. With that wind blown hair. It looks like he’s been riding on top of the SUV.

  137. 137
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Napoleon:

    Really? I guess there are some pretty stupid people out there.

    27% of the adult population, minimum.

  138. 138
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @Elizabelle: So its real hair, that covers the positronic pathways. His hair always looked like a helmet, when he was campaigning.

  139. 139
    Svensker says:

    @ArchPundit:

    He’s a fucking Catholic—they accept evolution for fuck’s sake

    Maybe the Church does but not all Catholics do. There’s a big pocket of conservative Catholics in Ontario who are 6,000-Year-Old Earthers, too. One kid I know is a (very bright) philosophy Ph.D. candidate at University of Toronto and his dad is a (very bright) engineer at Blackberry, but they’re both absolutely sure the Bible is a geology textbook. Can’t argue it, either.

  140. 140
    PurpleGirl says:

    @Cmm: That’s as good a creation story as any I’ve read from other religions or philosophies. I myself though of petrie dishes and bacteria colonies being taken care of by the uber scientist.

  141. 141

    Not related but today, my Gannett-owned daily fishwrap put a story on a museum’s “full-sized replica of Noah’s Ark” on the front page, above the fold.

    That’s my daily newspaper, making us all dumber by the day.

  142. 142
    Svensker says:

    @Keith G:

    Link to your blog?

  143. 143
    Palli says:

    Isn’t the family of Rubio one of the rich Batista refugees from the early days of the Cuban revolution?

    BTW, wasn’t Batista a rich black dictator?

  144. 144
    Ash Can says:

    Actually, I question Rubio’s supposed Catholicism. Doesn’t he claim he was born Catholic and raised Mormon, and now attends some fundie Church, Inc.? Or does he just say that to pander to the most voters possible?

  145. 145
    PurpleGirl says:

    @rlrr: What is that in furlongs per fortnight?

  146. 146
    Full Metal Wingnut says:

    @Anya: I will give my Marist high school credit. We were taught evolution. Never creationism (we did take a Bible History class, which even as an atheist i found interesting, and we only that evolution was somehow GREATER evidence of God). We also had a Jewish teacher, an open atheist teacher, aaaand….well, we still learned abstinence and that gayness is sick and wrong. But it was surprisingly nothing like The Chocolate War (which was actually on our 9th grade reading list, they even had a sense of humor!)

  147. 147
    catclub says:

    @Schlemizel: John Thune

  148. 148
    rlrr says:

    @PurpleGirl:

    1.8026175 × 10^12 furlongs per fortnight

  149. 149
    Full Metal Wingnut says:

    @Full Metal Wingnut: and then there was our “morality” class and seminars on sex within marriage, abortion crap. I like to call it the banality of brainwashing.

  150. 150
    catclub says:

    @Palli: Nope, His family left BEFORE Castro took over, cause they did not like their chances under free market icon Fulgencio Batista.

    But don’t tell the rubes. Rubio has tried to imply his family were refugees from the Castro dominated Cuba.

  151. 151
    Catsy says:

    @Cmm:

    You can have a much longer discussion on how god created light and dark and periods of day and night but didnt create the sun and the moon and stars until several days in.

    That’s easy enough. The day and night cycles that existed prior to the sun and moon were just placeholders. The sun and moon systems weren’t going to make it through QA until day four, so in order to take the Earth itself to production it was necessary to spoof darkness and light using test data. The difference would’ve been obvious to anyone standing on the surface of the planet, but since the earth wasn’t taking any production user traffic until days 5 and 6, it was close enough for test sign-off.

    What? We do it all the time.

  152. 152
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @Full Metal Wingnut: They called it Moral Science class, in my school. The most boring stuff ever, we never paid any attention, as far as I can remember it was about stuff like the Golden rule, being honest etc. nothing about abortion or the ghey.

  153. 153
    schrodinger's cat says:

    I also encourage all wingnuts to find a tall building and test the theory of gravitation. It is a theory after all.

  154. 154
    PurpleGirl says:

    @rlrr: I laughed so hard, I began to cough. Thanks.

  155. 155
    rlrr says:

    Consider – according to the Bible, pi = 3.

  156. 156
    Palli says:

    @Palli:
    Thanks, catclub, for the answer.
    So the Rubios represent an insular branch of the American Hispanic population. I doubt their universal appeal if truth be told. (which is, of course, our responsibility because the media likes a story more.

  157. 157
    Thlayli says:

    @PurpleGirl:

    Wiki doesn’t say anything about the bar exam or employment with any law firm.

  158. 158
    Chris says:

    @Lurking Canadian:

    “But my Lord, what’s a mile?”

  159. 159
    sherparick says:

    More from the GQ article/interview, a gift that will keep on giving. (From Washington Monthly)

    But I found this exchange most interesting:

    “GQ: Who’s your best friend?
    Marco Rubio: My wife. We talk every day.
    GQ: Besides your wife.
    Marco Rubio: [South Carolina Senator and Tea Party favorite] Jim DeMint. He’s a great source of wisdom as a person who’s had to make decisions that have made him unpopular in his own party. Jeb Bush is another guy I admire for his ability to analyze issues and call them for what they are.”

    “Wow. It’s bad enough that Rubio mentions his Florida political patron, Jeb Bush, as an afterthought. But anyone who thinks of Rubio as a potential GOP vehicle for “modernizing” the party should think again given his proud kinship to the antediluvian DeMint, the heaviest right-wing heavy of them all. You don’t need to be a “scientist, man” to spot a brontosaurus when you see one.”

    Being Jim Demint’s best friend in the Senate will be a great way to attract the Blahs, Hispanics, single women, and northern whites to cut their throats and vote Republican.

  160. 160
    👽 Martin says:

    @ArchPundit:

    He’s a fucking Catholic—they accept evolution for fuck’s sake

    What can you say, we’re a center-right lobe nation. He’s just here to pander to it.

  161. 161
    aimai says:

    @rlrr:

    Maybe the Egyptians were like Republican Dead Enders and simply refused to accept the events described because they oversampled the Jews?

    aimai

  162. 162
    Uncle Ebeneezer says:

    @redshirt: In short: everything you see, attribute to God. Everything you don’t see, attribute to God. Everything you aren’t sure about…God’s mystery. Now pay me your tithe and let me pick your politicians for you. A brilliant little racket, amen.

  163. 163
    blingee says:

    Ok I’ll bite. The Rubio thing is so hilarious. Typical Republican thinking. Don’t change the message, just change the packaging.

    Let’s see…we are weak with latinos so we need someone who looks latino and can speak spanish to deliver the message that we still hate brown people.

    Lol…they will never learn god bless em.

  164. 164
    different-church-lady says:

    Man, 2016 starts early this year.

  165. 165
    JustAnotherBob says:

    @Keith: Ah, the Bentneck Sisters.

    Hopefully they’re about 14 minutes into their 15.

  166. 166
    cokane says:

    I thought not having a spine was a pre requisite to being the Republican nominee

  167. 167
    different-church-lady says:

    @redshirt: That God, he’s a clever guy.

    I agree it’s an easy fix — for sane people. But for most of the God-types, they’re not hung up on God, they’re dogmatically hung up on the very stories about God they’ve been told. These are not people who grasp the concept of metaphor.

  168. 168
    JPL says:

    @different-church-lady: Let’s hope not. My stomach was tied in knots for month at the thought of a Romney presidency.

  169. 169
    Johnny Sack says:

    By the way, has anyone on this blog mentioned that scumfuck war criminal Allen West finally conceded?

  170. 170
    Higgs Boson's Mate says:

    FWIW, the word “cubano” is used as a pejorative by many of the Hispanics with whom I’ve worked here in Southern California.

  171. 171
    JustAnotherBob says:

    @kindness:

    Conservatism, when did it become equivalent to ‘I can make up my own facts and they are better than what others may say’?

    It came as part of the package that Nixon bought with his Southern Strategy. There’s a very high correlation between being a racist and being intentionally stupid.

  172. 172
    Johnny Sack says:

    @catclub: Because if your middle class white family lost their money under the Commie Castro, they were martyrs and refugees. But if you were just a poor brownie immigrating anyway, then fuck you. Not that I don’t sympathize with the former (my family, basically), but it’s amazing how narrow one’s sympathies can be sometimes.

  173. 173
    Maude says:

    OT
    Corey Booker is preparing to live a week on food stamps.
    A crummy stunt. And, it is offensive.

  174. 174
    SatanicPanic says:

    @redshirt: This is pretty much intelligent design though. Or the First Mover argument. I guess it’s better than creationism, but I can’t really endorse this either.

  175. 175
    MikeJ says:

    @Higgs Boson’s Mate: What else would you call someone covered in pickles?

  176. 176
    Yutsano says:

    @MikeJ: Mmm…cubanos.

    Wait…what were we talking about again?

  177. 177
    Shawn in ShowMe says:

    @Maude:

    I understand it’s a contest that will be moderated by the University of Bridgeport, which already had a food stamp challenge planned for December.

    Here in my state, St. Louis Food Outreach has been doing food stamp challenges for 4 years now.

  178. 178
    GregB says:

    I think we should refer to Marco Rubio as his greatest anagram generated name:

    CIA Rub Room

  179. 179
    Full Metal Wingnut says:

    @Maude: I never understood the appeal of Cory Booker. I don’t and won’t support him for the White House, ever, because of bullshit like this. Just strikes me as a media grubber and empty suit.

  180. 180
    different-church-lady says:

    @SatanicPanic: Not endorse-able, but easily ignorable. I mean, once you get into “But why the big bang? Why is there matter? Why this way and not another way?” you’re in the realm of metaphysics by definition. So should we really care if one person’s mystery differs from another? As long as it’s not a rejection of observable reality, where’s the harm?

    I mean, really, if religions were clever they’d say something like, “Sure, that story about the arc? That’s about what God thought we could handle at the time, but things have changed quite a bit, and now God’s got much more interesting stories to tell us.”

    But they won’t do that because it means that God has the power, not them.

  181. 181
    pseudonymous in nc says:

    I’m sure there’s a writeup of all the bits of science that have to go out of the window with a young earth — so the nuts in comments saying “well, this has nothing to do with the economy” are also saying that large chunks of geology, biology, chemistry and physics don’t matter either.

  182. 182
    Cassidy says:

    @redshirt: That isn’t good enough. That allows them to be believers without forcing all of us to be one as well. Religion always poils down to passing ont he good word even if coercion and force are necessary.

  183. 183
    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet says:

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent): There’s actually more to it than even that. E.g. There are 2 creation myths in Genesis that were folded together so as not to offend the two different traditions.

    A fascinating book on the subject is Who Wrote the Bible?

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  184. 184
    different-church-lady says:

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent):

    Then, when Moses relates it to the rest of the Jews, it would have to be further simplified.

    There’s actually footage of it!

  185. 185
    J.D. Rhoades says:

    Of course, any opposition to Rubio will now be put forth as “evidence” that it’s Democrats who are the REAL racists.

  186. 186
    Maude says:

    @Shawn in ShowMe:
    How about they live on food stamps permanently. It is offensive.

  187. 187
    SatanicPanic says:

    @different-church-lady: Not necessarily. I’m not claiming to be a major science guy, but there are people working on why there was a big bang. I just don’t like the idea that if you say “god made all the rules” because then you have to agree that god could unmake them. Unless you want to define God as a set a rules that govern existence. I don’t know if that satisfies anyone.

  188. 188
    Cassidy says:

    @Maude: If it’s a stunt that somehow leads to making the lives of the working poor better, I’m all for it.

  189. 189
    schrodinger's cat says:

    I remember a couple of years back, they were castigating the Theory of Relativity, because it had the word relative in it. I wonder what all those poor home-schooled kids are learning when it comes to science.

  190. 190
    J.D. Rhoades says:

    I just read Rubio’s remarks, and I see them not as a denial of science, but as him trying desperately to avoid the whole issue, because if he does, he’ll either enrage the fundies or bring down a hailstorm of derision from the sane. So he just shrugs and goes, “what do I know about that, let’s talk about the economy.”

    Problem is, if you don’t accept basic science and the basic principle that statements are either true or they’re not, then you have no business discussing the economy.

  191. 191
    different-church-lady says:

    @SatanicPanic:

    Unless you want to define God as a set a rules that govern existence.

    I define God as “a good story to comfort us while we try to figure out the stuff we haven’t yet figured out.”

    I think we can all see why organized religion ain’t gonna go along with that, but it’s interesting to think about.

  192. 192
    different-church-lady says:

    @J.D. Rhoades: What the hell does economics have to do with science?

  193. 193
    ding dong says:

    An. Oregon rep or sen did this a few years ago. It was well done and eye opening. He talked about how expensive protein was. I don’t see what’s wrong with that.

  194. 194
    Maude says:

    @Cassidy:
    It does nothing for the poor. It is a look at us aren’t we wonderful, pretending to be poor?
    Think about it.
    Temporary inconvenience is not being poor.

  195. 195
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @different-church-lady: Economics has a serious case of physics envy, many of the theoretical foundation of econ try to mimic physics. Also many of the products we take for granted would not be possible without modern science, the internet, television, you name it.

  196. 196
    Maude says:

    @ding dong:
    He is living just fine now. It doesn’t do anything.

  197. 197
    👽 Martin says:

    @J.D. Rhoades:

    Problem is, if you don’t accept basic science and the basic principle that statements are either true or they’re not, then you have no business discussing the economy.

    Worse than that, how the fuck can you be the leader of the free world if you can’t make a definitive statement on whether the earth is 6,000 years old or not. Every policy the President deals with is going to piss off some constituent group. You can’t avoid every issue.

  198. 198
    Chris says:

    @Cacti:

    The problem with the GOP and their minority candidates in general, is that the winger base and establishment isn’t interested in the blacks or browns having a seat at the table and a voice in the process.

    They want a black or brown face to cheerlead for the “whites first” agenda, and guard dog against accusations of racism.

    This.

    Sorry guys, it doesn’t work that way. When the Democrats won the black vote over, they had to actually start addressing the issues black voters cared about. When you won the Dixiecrats over, you had to drop all your previous civil rights positions and become the party of white hate. People aren’t going to suddenly switch sides because of a transparent PR stunt.

  199. 199
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Maude:

    It’s a pretty common publicity stunt sponsored by a lot of liberal groups like this one. I’m kind of surprised this is the first time you’ve heard of someone doing one — I think I first heard of it three or four years ago.

  200. 200
    Cassidy says:

    @Maude: No, but if it can be spotlighted and forced into the national conversation instead of talking about where Petreaus went all in, I don’t see a bad thing. With all that’s going on: the scheduling discussed earlier today, especially going into holiday hours, Hostess pitching a fit because its workers won’t go down to $9.20 an hour, all this shit about cutting services and the fiscal cliff; what het’s lost is the discussion about very real people who work, maybe, 40 hours a week if their employer will do it, pays a shit ton of money to healthcare and childcare, and has to go through the humiliating ritual of hoping people aren’t staring when they whip out that EBT gummint card to buy t-bones, porno, and ciggarettes groceries to make your kids dinner.

  201. 201
    👽 Martin says:

    @Maude: Okay, I’ve been trying to think this one out, and for the life of me I cannot figure out how it’s offensive. Care to educate us?

  202. 202
    PurpleGirl says:

    @Cassidy: Living on “food stamps” has been done before and not much changes. Congress doesn’t increase the money allocated for food support and they don’t give the states more and the states don’t increase the amounts they give to people. Academic surveys and studies have been done for years, too. The Congress and politicians ignore the findings.

    All that seems to happen at times are that the poor get lectured to about how they could better use the nutritional support.

  203. 203
    different-church-lady says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: Economists would be better off if they’d just admit they’re a branch of psychology.

    @👽 Martin:

    how the fuck can you be the leader of the free world if you can’t make a definitive statement on whether the earth is 6,000 years old or not.

    We want to look forward, not back.

  204. 204
    Cassidy says:

    @👽 Martin: What i think she’s saying is that someone who is well off, pretending to be poor for a week to “understand how it feels” is offensive. Any knucklehead can suffer for a week, knowing it will end, and won’t come close to experiencing what it’s like to be poor. That’s the truly debilitating part. People can adapt, but the not knowing when or if things willl ever get better is what makes it hopeless.

    Am I reading that right?

  205. 205
    Cassidy says:

    @PurpleGirl: Doesn’t hurt to be an optimist.

  206. 206
    SatanicPanic says:

    @different-church-lady: That’s a fine definition. I’ve always said I would believe in God if I could.

  207. 207
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @different-church-lady: Economics is more akin to theology than anything else. I believe and therefore I am.

  208. 208
    Ruckus says:

    @James K. Polk, Esq.:
    You don’t think he’d pay extra for full service do you?

  209. 209
    Shawn in ShowMe says:

    @Maude:

    I understand where you’re coming from. But from the perspective of nonprofits trying to draw attention to food insecurity and drive fundraising, this is the equivalent of sweeps week.

    Are they appealing to the vanity of well-meaning but comfortable liberals? Probably. Is it a small price to pay to help nonprofits carry out their mission? Absolutely.

  210. 210
    different-church-lady says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: Well, that’s the way it’s practiced at any rate, but it’s not the way it has to be.

    I suppose as long as we have a fiat currency we need someone to describe the workings of the belief system to us. Otherwise it’s back to bartering chickens and throwing rocks at each other.

  211. 211
    Ruckus says:

    @Napoleon:
    Big deal, who reads the bible for science.
    Or really any other kind of guidance.

  212. 212
    aimai says:

    @Maude:

    I don’t like Cory Booker because he knows which side his banker is buttered on, but this “stunt” is not at all a bad idea because if it is represented correctly in the press (that is, if he does his job right) the resulting publicity can make clear how impoverished the safety net is.

    aimai

  213. 213
    rikyrah says:

    Marco’s nothing but a grifter

  214. 214
    catclub says:

    @Ruckus: Do justice, love mercy, wait humbly…

    Sometimes it is not all chopping off enemy foreskins.

  215. 215
    Ruckus says:

    @ding dong:
    You don’t need to do a stunt to know that protein is expensive, just go to the store and look. You don’t need to do a stunt to see that food stamps don’t pay for much, just go to the same store and shop.
    Stunts are exactly that. If no changes occur because of the stunt then it is a waste of time and it is just offensive.

  216. 216
    Ruckus says:

    @catclub:
    And that message is only available in the bible?
    And that is the only message people take from the bible?
    I didn’t think so.

  217. 217
    burnspbesq says:

    @Full Metal Wingnut:

    I never understood the appeal of Cory Booker. I don’t and won’t support him for the White House, ever, because of bullshit like this. Just strikes me as a media grubber and empty suit.

    He has a chance to kill off Chris Christie’s White House hopes by beating him for guv of NJ next year. Close your eyes and think of England.

  218. 218
    burnspbesq says:

    @aimai:

    I don’t like Cory Booker because he knows which side his banker is buttered on

    In case you’ve forgotten, (1) running for statewide office is expensive, (2) their money is as green as anyone else’s, and (3) it comes in bigger bundles.

  219. 219
    👽 Martin says:

    @Cassidy:

    What i think she’s saying is that someone who is well off, pretending to be poor for a week to “understand how it feels” is offensive. Any knucklehead can suffer for a week, knowing it will end, and won’t come close to experiencing what it’s like to be poor. That’s the truly debilitating part. People can adapt, but the not knowing when or if things willl ever get better is what makes it hopeless.

    Except that’s not what he’s doing, and it’s stupid to think that it is.

    People on TAMF are pariahs in this country. The only way to have a debate about how hard it is to survive on TAMF is for people with public voices to do it for a while. Better yet, having policy makers see first hand how their policies work is never a bad idea. While Booker doesn’t have any direct legislative impact on TAMF, he can as mayor provide a host of satellite services to it, and he certainly has enough of a political voice to help move the debate around the program.

    The alternative to this is to have legislators continue to be willfully ignorant of their own policies and for there to be no debate around the merits and failings of TAMF because those on the program will continue to remain in the shadows of the debate, in no small part out of shame and fear that the Fighting 101 will come out and pillory them for eating human food instead of worms or dog shit or whatever their fevered minds believe the lowest degree of human dignity deserves to be.

    Didn’t someone once say something about walking in another persons shoes? I don’t recall the chorus coming back and saying that it was offensive to do so.

  220. 220
    Keith G says:

    @Cassidy: I like your approach.

    Quite a workable plan. Don’t imagine important possibilities. Don’t learn from past lessons. Just do what feels good and is comfortable. Push away discordant views and rest blissfully in a bog of ultimate self-satisfaction.

    The GOP is self-destructing so why should we come together and discuss the type of policy choices that will serve our society and strengthen our coalition? We won the election, now let’s sit back and watch the magic happen. Right?

    This sounds very similar to what was being said in late November 2008 and in the absence of our activism, the GOP came roaring back. Let’s try not to repeat that. Please?

    While I have intentionally over-stated the premise, all I am suggesting is that the lefty voting grass roots cannot take much of a break. Important battles are being fought as we type insults about the other side. We have to organize, assess, and assert and not leave any doubt about what we expect from our government.

  221. 221
    Full Metal Wingnut says:

    @aimai: I agree. Offensiveness notwithstanding, if it makes one ignorant liberal or kneejerk reaction conservative take a fresh look at the safety net, that’s a good thing. Of course, offensiveness in pursuit of an end can go too far. See, e.g., PETA. I definitely disagree with Goldwater. Extremism in defense of liberty is no virtue, imho.

  222. 222
    👽 Martin says:

    @aimai: In his case they’re also constituents. And after 9/11 more than a few firms moved into his city. Rule #1 of politics is stand up for your constituents – all of them.

  223. 223
    Full Metal Wingnut says:

    @burnspbesq: I might be moving across the Hudson soon. I’ll gladly vote for him over Christie. But not for the White House.

  224. 224
    Ruckus says:

    @aimai:
    And how many times has this happened? What I see is people saying we need the churches to do more or that we need more/bigger non-profits because the problem is so big.
    Isn’t the government the largest non-profit? (Medicare cost/benefit ratio) Maybe we should be having the discussion that there are better ways of helping than adding layers of more costly and less efficient services.

    Someone up thread pointed out that these kind of stunts where someone is “poor” for a week are supposed to bring light to the subject. One is not poor if they know that in a week things will change back to “normal”. One is poor when they know they don’t have enough money to eat or keep a roof over their heads and that there is no foreseeable end to that. We can all talk about that but experiencing it with no end in sight is about 1800 levels different.

  225. 225
    swbarnes2 says:

    @J.D. Rhoades:

    I just read Rubio’s remarks, and I see them not as a denial of science, but as him trying desperately to avoid the whole issue, because if he does, he’ll either enrage the fundies or bring down a hailstorm of derision from the sane.

    In light of his work to undermine the teaching of evolution in Florida schools, I think his answer has to be taken as science-denial. He’s not a fence-sitter. He pushes Creationist policies.

    So he just shrugs and goes, “what do I know about that, let’s talk about the economy.”

    The sane answer would be for him to say “Scientists agree that the universe is about 15 billion years old, and they seem to have done a good job with computers, and vaccines, and rocketing rovers to Mars, so I’m going to go with them on this one too.”

    What he said was nothing at all like that.

  226. 226
    Maude says:

    @👽 Martin:
    I am on food stamps, have been since I became disabled.
    I have a lot of company.
    I don’t need anyone to demonstrate how it is to be poor to the rest of the affluent folk.
    They aren’t poor. They don’t need to be on food stamps. They are play acting. It is also look at me. They do the stamps bit and then go back to their regular food budget.
    Congress has cut food stamps this past year. It will take effect next year.
    Food prices have been going up. There are families who aren’t making it on food stamps and food pantry.
    I would tell them to go to hell and be quick about it.
    It is fake.
    It is common knowledge that food prices have gone up. It is also common knowledge that food stamps don’t cover the higher prices.
    There are over 45 million people on food stamps. That speaks for itself.
    The people who do these do gooder things are malicious.
    They put people like me into a category where I am defined by income.
    I know this has been a popular little play act for some years.
    It dehumanizes people.
    I can’t explain it better.

  227. 227
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @👽 Martin: I think a lot of entitled food bloggers and mommy bloggers have done this experiment before, and they come out sounding quite offensive. I lived on such such budget and I only cooked healthy food. They don’t seem to take into account whether that would be possible for a person working more than one low paying job and no car. May be Maude was thinking about those experiments.

    ETA: I see that she has answered your question, so this comment is now redundant.

  228. 228
    Shawn in ShowMe says:

    @👽 Martin:

    Well said. I assume you meant TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families).

  229. 229
    Maude says:

    @Ruckus:
    Thank you.

    @👽 Martin:
    It’s TANF.

  230. 230
    fuckwit says:

    You know, there are plenty of places in government for people who are not a scientist, man.

    BUT NOT ON THE FUCKING SENATE SCIENCE COMMMITTEE!!

    Jeebum crow. What the fuck?

    I could see being ignorant of a topic, and admitting it. But how the fuck is anyone in America allowed to be PROUD of being ignorant of a topic that they’re supposed to be legislating on?

    That’s FREE-DUMB at work, lemme tell ya!

    And, the Rethugs are all atwitter about Rubio because the same reason they were excited by Allan West and the guy with the girl-on-girl strippers who was running the RNC for a while– they think it’s about identity politics. SO, if Latinos don’t like Rethug policies, that’s easy to fix, just throw a Latino at them! They won’t be able to resist! Victory! Muahahaha!

    These fucking people are so stupid. They think we’re idiots.

    Keep fucking that chicken.

  231. 231
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @👽 Martin: An example of what I am saying.

  232. 232
    Cassidy says:

    @👽 Martin: I agree. I was just trying to answer your question about Maude’s intent. I could easily be wrong. I’ve had to use EBT. I know how humiliating it is. I welcome any attempt to push it into the public’s face and make them cringe.

    @Keith G: I don’t disagree, but lamenting on Balloon Juice because they’re not being activist enough, right now, for you, doesn’t strike me as productive. If you’re bothered by it that much, do something. personally, I think Kay and the others have earned a little downtime.

  233. 233
    👽 Martin says:

    @Maude:

    Congress has cut food stamps this past year. It will take effect next year.
    Food prices have been going up. There are families who aren’t making it on food stamps and food pantry.
    I would tell them to go to hell and be quick about it.

    How’s that working out for you? You want to keep sticking with the strategy, or maybe you think we should change it up a bit?

  234. 234
  235. 235
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Maude: Well, here’s the thing. _You_ don’t need to know all that. But lots of other people do. They think food stamps are free goodies. Having someone who gets publicity for other things get publicity for exposing the stinginess of social welfare programs, as opposed to their extravagance, doesn’t strike me as any more hollow or offensive than any other gesture of empathy.

  236. 236
    Cassidy says:

    @Maude: I hear you. I guess I just hope that because the media loves them some Cory Booker, and so do casual newswatchers, that maybe this can finally be something that gets the issue in the public eye. It’s probably misplaced optimism, but somethings got to give and it ain’t gonna happen because people are working 2-3 jobs, have one running car, and kids who don’t eat every night. It’s going to take someone affluent and the camera loves to make our society realize we have a problem.

  237. 237
    different-church-lady says:

    @Ruckus:

    You don’t need to do a stunt to know that protein is expensive, just go to the store and look. You don’t need to do a stunt to see that food stamps don’t pay for much, just go to the same store and shop.

    But you might need to do a stunt to bring all that to the attention of the “young bucks buying T-Bones” crowd. I mean, this ain’t about educating Booker, this stunt is about waking up some clueless minds. It’s arguable whether it works, but there it is.

  238. 238
    FlipYrWhig says:

    How many people do you think assume that food stamps must be pretty generous because a lot of poor kids are fat? Millions upon millions upon millions. It’s a monstrous attitude. but that’s how they think.

  239. 239
    different-church-lady says:

    @Maude: OK. Fine. Tell the folks trying to shine a spotlight on all that to go to hell. Because… what, they’re not “really” poor? OK, fine, they go to hell and you remain invisible. If that’s what you want.

  240. 240
    Cassidy says:

    @FlipYrWhig: @different-church-lady: Relax Frankie. Maude is right in the respect that is offensive that someone has to “live like me” for a week to showcase how shitty some people in this country have it. I disagree with her on the impact, but I get her feelings about it. It’s almost as offensive as a TV series about some young heiress going to get dirty with them hillbillies and live on a farm for a month or people going to an island where other people live and “surviving” for a month. It’s offensive that it has to happen. Ithink Booker’s heart is in the right place and am willing to hope he can make this into an issue.

  241. 241
    Maude says:

    @different-church-lady:
    I’m not invisible.
    @Cassidy:
    Booker is a fraud. He is ambitious and will do anything to get ahead.

  242. 242
    scav says:

    @Maude: “I’m not invisible.”
    actually, that’s kinda funny on the internet. thank for the minor giggle, it set off my cough again but it was worth it.

  243. 243
    different-church-lady says:

    @Cassidy:

    Maude is right in the respect that is offensive that someone has to “live like me” for a week to showcase how shitty some people in this country have it.

    The word we’re looking for here is not “offensive”, it’s “disgraceful”. And it’s not Booker who’s doing it, it’s society.

    This is what’s really great about being a liberal: we can make enemies out of people on our own side for the stupidest reasons.

  244. 244
    Maude says:

    @scav:
    I owe you cough syrup. I hope it isn’t the one I had. It didn’t go away forever and ever.

    @different-church-lady:
    To me it’s offensive and i am an expert.

  245. 245
    NotMax says:

    @Maude

    Knowing I’m setting myself up for a slap upside the head –

    It’s offensive to you, and (of course) you are perfectly within your rights to find it so and stress your reaction.

    If he (or they) had announced that they were going to “live for a week like Maude,” that would be patently offensive to everyone.

    Also too, something can be offensive and not be denigrating. Might that apply in this case?

    It’s a political stunt, not an entertainment stunt.

    Full disclosure: I am eligible for food stamps, but have never applied and have no plans to do so. Mentioned not to in any way crow about it, but solely for informational purposes.

  246. 246
    different-church-lady says:

    @scav: You know, I’m pretty miffed at Maud’s attitude here, but nonetheless I’m not going to succumb to playing stupid games with her dignity in the name of retort, and appeal to others not to either. Her attitude doesn’t make sense to me, but there’s no point in belaboring it, especially if it’s going to devolve into a cutting contest. Sorry I went in that direction — I did have a point I was trying to make, but obviously it won’t get made.

  247. 247
    Maude says:

    @NotMax:
    It’s fake.
    I didn’t say it was offensive to me, I said it was offensive.
    It’s not about me per say, but about poor people as a whole. It lumps us all together into a mushy dirty ball. I can speak to it. I do.
    If these do gooders want to help, they can donate to food banks. Do so without the publicity.
    It doesn’t create awareness. When the show is over, people forget all about it. This has been done before. How did that work out? Have things changed? No.
    If they were serious, they could pressure the Republicans in the House and Senate to up the amount of the stamps.
    It’s the principle of the thing.
    You were expressing an opinion.
    I was, by some, being lectured because I’m not grateful to my betters.
    That gives me a happy.

  248. 248
    Maude says:

    @different-church-lady:
    My dignity is fully intact. Your concern is duly noted.

    Edit, I’m done with the topic. It’s gotten boring.

  249. 249
    Ruckus says:

    @different-church-lady:
    You think the assholes you are talking about give a shit? Do you think that one politician(they don’t like) doing a stunt like this is going to change their minds?
    Sorry it just won’t. The evidence of high food prices and low paying/no jobs, how much food stamps pay, how much unemployment/welfare is, is all available easily online. They don’t care. A stunt to give them evidence is a waste. Look at people who are on programs and not paying taxes (you don’t get on the programs we are talking about and pay taxes) who yell and whine about moochers. They don’t care. They don’t think and we are not going to make them think or care. They will resist with their dying breath to care. Major politicians in their party are discussing the age of the earth in terms of total stupidity.
    They don’t care.

  250. 250
    NotMax says:

    (you don’t get on the programs we are talking about and pay taxes)

    Bull.

    ‘Those people*’ pay lots and lots of taxes.

    Many of which are regressive and hit them as a percentage of income at a greater rate than the more financially well situated.

    *And that includes the unseemly percentage of those in the military who receive food stamps.

  251. 251
    Ruckus says:

    @NotMax:
    Sorry
    You are correct.
    I meant income taxes and should have stated that. If you are in the military and are eligible for food stamps, your net taxable income should put you out of owing income tax, just like anyone else.

  252. 252
    Rome Again says:

    According to Birthers, Rubio is not eligible for the presidency because he doesn’t have two citizens parents who were born here. Some Birthers have also noted this and used the argument to make themselves seem reasonable when questioning Obama’s eligibility.

    I personally fall under the belief that both of these men are in fact natural born citizens, but I would never vote for either of them anyway. If either of them seeks the 2016 nomination, they have to convince the Birthers that they are eligible. Good luck with that. :P

  253. 253
    Rome Again says:

    I should clarify, the article I linked to questioned both Rubio’s and Jindal’s eligibility. That is the two I would never vote for.

  254. 254
    different-church-lady says:

    @Ruckus: On second thought, you’re spot on. It’s really the people who don’t inherently think that, but could be swayed by the assholes I should have cited.

    That, of course, is premised on the idea that there’s still a middle remaining to persuade. And saying we manage to change the zeitgeist, is there anyone left in congress who might care?

    I dunno, when it comes to this kind of propaganda and vilification I’ve lost track of who’s the dog and who’s the tail. Used to be the evil bubbled up from the sewers and congress critters cowered in fear, but now the Tea Party has turned that formula upside down and the Bachmanns of the world shower the sewage onto the masses from above.

  255. 255
    J R in WV says:

    @different-church-lady:

    Science gives us tools that allow us to understand economic events, to model and make predictions about how economies will behave given various changes over time. Statistics is a branch of math that appears to explain the probability of events taking place in patterns, for example.

    Without science as a mechanism to work with, the word economics is meaningless in any productive way. It really would be voodoo, or witchcraft, or some other factually meaningless word, instead of a method for understanding market behavior.

    Some people call economics the dismal science, and it isn’t yet as exact as high-energy physics, but there are things we don’t understand completely about physics, just as we don’t fully understand market behavior as a science. There are “laws” that underlay economics, like the law of supply and demand.

    I’ll stop there, but people wouldn’t get Nobel Prizes for Voodoo as they do for Economics, if it wasn’t a part of science. Just think about it.

  256. 256
    different-church-lady says:

    @J R in WV: I was kidding.

  257. 257
    Desmond says:

    I apologize if this has been mentioned earlier in the thread but it irritates me that Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz, both of white Cuban ancestry, are somehow the Great Brown Hope of the Republican party.

    If they are people of colour, I guess I am too, since I’m of white Spanish ancestry. In fact, they’re no more “brown” than any other Americans of southern European ancestry.

    I suspect many people don’t get this distinction, but in Cuba, you really don’t have the same demographics that you have in other Latin American countries. Rather than the mixed European and Native American ancestry of most Mexicans and other Hispanics, in Cuba, the native Taino population was mostly wiped out in the early days of European settlement.

    Cubans today are descendants of either White Europeans or African slaves, with a large mulatto population as well.

  258. 258
    Hobbes says:

    @Lurking Canadian:

    my beloved is all radIant and ruddy,distinguished among ten thousand.
    his head is the finest goLd; his lOcks are wavy,black as a raven.
    his eyes are like doVes beside springs of water,bathed in milk,fitly set.
    his cheeks are like bEds of spices,yielding fragrance.
    his lips are lilies, distilling liquiD myrrh.
    his arms are roUnded gold,set with jeweLs.
    his body is ivory work,enCrusted with sapphires.
    his legs are alabaster columns,set upon bases of gold.
    hIs appearance is like lebanon,choice as the cedars.
    his speech is most sweet, and he is altogether dEsirable.

  259. 259
    Steeplejack says:

    @Anoniminous:

    The Speed of Light is 186,000 miles 654.72 million cubits per second.

    Fix’d.

    ETA: D’oh! Late again.

  260. 260
    Steeplejack says:

    @PurpleGirl:

    1.7998848e+12 furlongs per fortnight.

    Straight from McArdle’s calculator.

    ETA: Damn! Late again again.

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