Early Morning Open Thread

Hey, has anybody noticed that those restaurant chains that are talking about cutting hours on staff to keep them from eligbility for healthcare are all places no one with any taste wants to eat anyway?  And in many cases, it’s not the chains themselves, but the larger franchisees that are doing it.

The State of Florida has officially certified the election of Patrick Murphy to Congress.  Allen West has flat refused to accept reality (which trait is consistent with his teabagger politics) but once the election is certified, there’s not a whole hell of a lot the courts can do.  That’s why Kathleen Harris was so quick to certify the bullshit election of GW Bush back in 2000.

What’s everybody got going today?


151 replies
  1. 1
    Karmus says:

    I’m planning on another day of schadenfreuding, with a side order of Colorado Delight.

  2. 2
    Scott S. says:

    Florida being the Stand-Your-Ground hellhole that it is, I think someone should start a betting pool on when Allen West gets shot trying to break into Patrick Murphy’s home — and how quickly the teabaggers wash their hands of him.

  3. 3
    Jon Rockoford says:

    Please, please, someone with a megaphone make this point:

    The restaurants that do not want to give health care to their employees are places where their employees prepare food for public consumption! And they are admitting that their employees neither have health insurance, nor will they get health insurance. They can stay sick while making food for you!

    Who the fuck wants to eat in a place where sick employees have to work with food and without the opportunity to heal? Why isn’t there a nationwide revulsion at eating at restaurants that essentially have been advertising that if their employees get sick, they should stay sick while making food for us?

    Why isn’t this a scandal in itself? Why would anyone want to eat food prepared in such unhygienic conditions? I don’t want Typhoid Mary making my pizza!

    Beyond the moral issue of not giving a shit about your employees health and well-being, this should be a public health issue and a marketing disaster for these asshole restaurant CEOs.

    I wrote Papa John’s: “For the record, I’d be happy to pay far more than a dime per pie to ensure that your employees have access to health care. Not only because it is the morally right thing to do, but because it’s far more hygienic to get pizza from a company that makes sure its employees can visit a doctor and remain healthy.”

    They never replied, but had enough mercy to remove me from their mailing list because I’m not eating Typhoid Mary pizza any longer.

  4. 4
    mai naem says:

    The Seattle Times has the photo that shirtless secret agent sent to the stalkee of the allupinmysnatch author. He looks like a doofus skinhead(yeah, I know that’s redundant)


  5. 5
    weaselone says:

    Probably because most of the better places and chains know that trotting out a 15 cent increase in the price of a pizza or a 5% surcharge on the bill to cover health insurance makes them and the company look like Grade A asshats. Those type of statements don’t engender hatred of Obamacare, they raise questions as to why the company in question wasn’t already providing insurance to its workers. It’s reminiscent of the antifreeze companies refusing to add foul tasting chemicals to the ethylene glycol in order to save 2 cents a bottle.

  6. 6
    kay says:

    I’ve only read one of the low wage employers whines, but I don’t think they can get around the law by cutting hours. I think the IRS just adds part-time employees together to make full time employees so the company is still on the hook to either provide insurance or pay the government for subsidizing their employees health care.
    We’re subsidizing their employees health care anyway, it’s just now we can collect a sum- certain for reimbursement.
    Low wage employers have been relying on the social safety net a long time, because the fact is people can’t really survive on such low wages. It’s about time they started paying for it.

  7. 7
    WereBear says:

    @Jon Rockoford: Excellent point, and one I’ll be using.

  8. 8
    arguingwithsignposts says:

    @Jon Rockoford: This really is an excellent point. Sadly, we can’t agree that animal factory farms shouldn’t be polluting the watershed, or that inspectors should be funded to stop salmonella outbreaks because of these galtian types.

  9. 9
    Elizabelle says:

    @mai naem:

    The gentlemen to the right and left of Agent Hustings have a brighter future than he does.

    What would you do with an FBI agent with a rightwing “worldview”, who whistle-blows to rightwing congressmen when he perceives his agency isn’t scandalmongering fast enough?

    Snake inspections in Guam? Someone on Morning Joe suggested Alaska. Take him off investigations and have him count pencils at HQ?

  10. 10
    bemused says:

    Metz of Denny’s: I’ll be forced to put surcharge on meals due to socialist Obamacare. Customers can choose to tip the servers less.

    Classy all the way.

  11. 11
    danielx says:

    Allen West has flat refused to accept reality…

    And he has lots of company.

  12. 12
    Older_Wiser says:

    Years ago, county health depts required TB x-rays of all food service workers.

    Most restaurants don’t even require gloves or hairnets anymore. It might clash with the “ambience” I suppose. Do we really know what goes on in the kitchen? Out of sight, out of mind, while it’s the front staff they want attractive and part of the scenery.

    If we want healthy folks preparing and serving our food, in a country that seems to eat out more every year rather than cooking at home, shouldn’t we as consumers lobby our county health depts to require that owners pay for medical exams for their employees? And get the State to back it up?

    Those county health inspectors at food establishments worry more about the food temp, placement, etc. than they do about whether or not employees are spreading communicable diseases. And everyone knows when they’re going to show up. Like clockwork. I worked in a couple of grocery store delis in my retirement mode and I’m quite aware of what goes on. We did have to wear hair coverings (except for guys with short hair and male mgrs (they were always males)–sexist!) and gloves when handling food and most of us were careful (even w/o formal sanitary training), but still, there is no backup when an employee calls in sick and is told to come in or lose their job. Keeping the payroll slim (absolutely no O/T), keeping numbers of hours worked, is the bottom line the co strives for, no matter how it affects service–or health.

  13. 13
    kay says:


    The health care bill allows small employers to compete with large employers on benefits because it offers tax credits for small employers and a guarantee of health insurance should you choose to leave your large employer and start your own pizza shop.
    So the worse thing that could happen is we get small, local restaurants to replace the giant chains who go Galt :)

  14. 14
    amk says:

    All this talk of adding ‘obamacare’ surcharge. How legal is that ? Or simply these nutters are just blowing smoke up their asses ?

  15. 15
    Kirbster says:

    If the internet and the multi-billion dollar right-wing noise machine had been around in the 1960s, we’d have seen the same sort of defiant whining from certain business owners in regard to employer funding of the new Medicare program. (Perhaps they’d have derisively referred to it as “Johnsoncare”.) The assholes have always been with us. They just have a bigger megaphone these days.

  16. 16
    Hawes says:

    I’m guessing Fieri won’t be offering benefits to his employees either then.

    I’m shocked to find out that pennies will be added to my Moon Over My Hammy in order to make sure millions of Americans don’t go bankrupt when they get sick or die sooner.

    The humanity profit margin.

  17. 17
    R-Jud says:

    There’s no November buffer holiday in Britain, so the German Christmas market is already in town: http://instagr.am/p/SFsKhiwW8k/

    I may have had a mulled cider and rum for lunch.

  18. 18
    La Caterina says:

    Going down to Coney Island to do disaster relief (legal services). This will be my first shift in this neighborhood and I’m a little nervous.

  19. 19
    Kane says:

    President Obama and Obamacare are simply the excuse du jour. In large measure these are the same people who are opposed to unions, raising the minimum wage, pay equity for women, workers rights and all the rest.

  20. 20
    Stentor says:

    I sincerely hope that Allen West spends all of his money on a pointless court battle, impoverishing him to the point where he has to start blowing hobos for food money. It couldn’t happen to a nicer dickbag. Wrap a fucking anvil around his neck & send him off to the dustbin of history. Good riddance asswipe.

  21. 21
    j says:

    That’s it. Just announced. The unions refused to accept their 3rd cut in pay and benefits since 2004, so Hostess locked the gates to all their plants and announced that they will start liquidating assets starting November 30. 18,000 people were just fired.

    Hostess has an appointment with a judge on Monday.

    Better stock up on Twinkies and HoHo’s.

  22. 22
    Valdivia says:

    Truly amazing piece about the techs who worked for the O campaign. Totally worth a read.

  23. 23
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    Is there a list somewhere of the restaurant chains that have publicly taken the “we’re forced to add a surcharge/raise prices/cut staff because of Obamacare”? Papa John’s and Denny’s I know about. What are some of the others?

  24. 24
    Older_Wiser says:

    Some locals are a whole lot worse. Like the seafood restaurant in NC where kitchen employees came in after hours and slaughtered a goat, winding up contaminating the kitchen, causing an e-coli outbreak which resulted in hundreds of people becoming ill and resulting in the death of at least one elderly customer. http://www.ecoliblog.com/e-col.....ns-galley/

  25. 25
    Paul says:

    They can do whatever the hell they want. On the other hand, I don’t have to eat there. As a result, I will never again eat at Papa Johns (what a shameful owner (the same goes for Payton Manning for doing an ad with them), giving away 2 million free pizzas, yet won’t pay for health care for his employees)) or at Applebees. The list keeps growing…

  26. 26
    ronathan richardson says:

    If there’s a better definition of a–hole than “person who complains that they have to pay an extra 40 cents for their meal at Denny’s so their servers can have health care”, i don’t know what it would be.

  27. 27
    PeakVT says:

    @amk: Why would it be illegal? Plenty of restaurants have a mandatory “gratuity” of 8 or even 15%. They may be required to disclose it somewhere on the menu or near the door, but other than that there’s nothing stopping them that I can think of.

  28. 28
    R-Jud says:

    @Valdivia: Holy shit, Harper Reed! I dated a good friend of his for a couple of years when I lived in Chicago, we used to hang out and play board games. And here I was thinking I’d done something with my life!

  29. 29
    JPL says:

    @j: Wow.. If only ordinary folks bought twinkies and wonder bread then the world would be a better place.

  30. 30
    gf120581 says:

    I hope Allen West finally faces reality and throws in the towel, but given how unhinged the man is, I’m not holding my breath. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if this ends with him refusing to surrender his Capitol offices to Murphy in January and being dragged out of the building kicking and screaming by Capitol security.

  31. 31
    PeakVT says:

    @j: Can a bankruptcy judge order management to start production and order everyone back to work? I don’t know the details here, but liquidation usually means creditors get less than they would if the concern was kept going. The action by Hostess management may be punitive instead of necessary, and thus they are shafting the creditors more than would happen if they kept it going.

  32. 32
    jibeaux says:

    @mai naem: White men need to make the headshaving decision carefully. They might look like badasses, they might look like giant peeenises/Rick Scott. Choose wisely, white dudes.

  33. 33
    Schlemizel says:

    @Jon Rockoford:

    Great letter – BTW Forbes magazine puts the cost at no more than 4.6 cents per pizza so the bastard can’t even tell the truth about that

  34. 34
    amk says:

    @PeakVT: Isn’t there a difference between a gratuity and an ‘obamacare’ tax or surcharge or whatever you wanna call them?

  35. 35
    Schlemizel says:


    Since they can charge pretty much whatever the customers will allow its legal. Not bright but legal

  36. 36
    bemused says:


    Harper Reed: “I think the Republicans fucked up in the hubris department”.

    There seems to be a pattern here.

  37. 37
    Maude says:

    Hostess can’t run the business without bakers.
    If they liquidate Monday, that’s the end of it.
    The union should negotiate. The economy is still bad and now, if Hostess goes out, the 18,500 will be out of a job.

  38. 38
    Soonergrunt says:

    @bemused: supposedly, he’s backing off the whole thing with a “it’s a misunderstanding that I represented myself as a whistleblower” kind of thing.

  39. 39
    EconWatcher says:

    Boy, elections do have consequences. Have you seen all the Republicans piling on the criticism of Mittster for his “gifts” comment? If he’d won, they’d be cheerfully and openly talking about how to disband the “moocher society.”. But instead, they have to pretend to be shocked by what they voted for. Consequences, indeed.

  40. 40
    Schlemizel says:


    Suddenly I hate you!

    German Christmas markets are not to be missed. Seriously. Its as if they bring out the best chocolate and the best pastries and the best sausages that they have been hiding for months. & you can wash it down with all sorts of cider, chocolate and/or alcohol refreshments served hot.

  41. 41
    Kane says:

    It’s good business to have happy and healthy employees. There’s fewer sick days and less of a turnover rate, which means less time training new employees.

    If I were a local restaurant owner or owned a large franchise that provides healthcare to my employees, I would advertise how I care about the local community and my employees by providing healthcare to all of my employees. I would market my business as the family restaurant who cares about families.

  42. 42
    bemused says:


    That’s how they roll. Reveal themselves as the greedy, selfish pigs they are and then say, “Never mind”.

  43. 43
    Schlemizel says:


    I bet they enter bankruptcy & are allowed to start up again but with brand new, non-unionized workers making $8/hour with few benefits. Profits will soar, now is the time to buy shares.

  44. 44
    PeakVT says:

    @amk: I don’t see why there would be. It’s wrong to call it a tax, because it’s not being paid to the government. Calling it tax may be illegal, too, but who knows? I doubt many people do without looking it up.

  45. 45
    Ash Can says:

    @amk: Perfectly legal. A private business owner can charge whatever s/he damn well pleases for the product or service for whatever reason, and especially in the case of a non-essential product such as restaurant food, it’s entirely up to the consumer to respond by saying “Fuck you, asshole; your shitty food is overpriced as it is” and decline to pay the asking price.

  46. 46
    JPL says:

    @Schlemizel: Profits will share because people want Wonder Bread… Really? When was the last time you ate Wonder Bread or a Twinkie?

  47. 47
    Valdivia says:


    I know, that should be the motto no? Loved the way he put it too, just simple and on point.

  48. 48
    Gordon, the Big Express Engine says:

    @Paul: i beg to differ. Peyton manning is a genius. He buys into a couple of dozen papa johns franchises (hence the ads) in Colorado months BEFORE they legalize pot!

  49. 49
    PeakVT says:

    @Schlemizel: Hostess is already in bankruptcy. The management is planning on moving from reorganization to liquidation (Ch. 11 to Ch. 7) on Monday. Some other company might buy all of the bakeries and restart them, but it would be a fundamentally different company.

  50. 50
    Valdivia says:


    I love that you know him, even more that you used to play board games with him. :)

  51. 51
    pluege says:

    great to move on but its really discouraging that allen west could be close in any election.

  52. 52
    jibeaux says:

    Maybe the Hostess workers could make the Candy Cane JoJos for Trader Joe’s that sell out every damn year and get hoarded on the black market by unscrupulous people.

  53. 53
    Kane says:

    @EconWatcher: If one reviews the archives from the days following the 2008 election, the quotes from Republicans concerning what they needed to do moving forward as a party are almost identical to what they are saying now. But rather than adapt and modify their policies to a changing world, Republicans ultimately decided that all they needed was a new salesman and a catchy new slogan to sell the same failed policies.

  54. 54
  55. 55
    El Cid says:

    Because mocking the low pay and benefits of your cooks and waitstaff with possibly undiagnosed and untreated illnesses always ends well for the customer, and fills people with confidence in selecting your company to buy food from.

  56. 56
    Raven says:

    Years ago I was in Sacramento for a family event. After the official doings we went to a Denny’s that had a bar. About 20 of us drank for four hours. When my old man got the bill his eyes bugged out, it was a tiny fraction of what it should have been. Being the cheap ass Norwegian he was he payed up, tipped big and we vamoused!

  57. 57
    amk says:

    @pluege: Dems made it only in 10/27 FL CD’s. It’s time dems ditched those old nutters and concentrated on TX and AZ.

  58. 58
    bemused says:


    One sentence sums up the GOP.

  59. 59
    Trinity says:

    Bwhahahahahahaha @ Allen West. May he choke on his way out.

    Also, too. Hostess sucks.

  60. 60
    Schlemizel says:

    So you are saying nobody has bought a loaf of Wonder Bread or a Twinkee, Ho-Ho or other crap-cake in years? Well then how they not go broke years ago?

    NOBODY ever went broke overestimating American taste for junk food.

  61. 61
    PeakVT says:

    The AP has called CA-07 for the Dem. Still outstanding are CA-52, UT-4, AZ-1, and NC-7 (according to the NYT). LA-3 will be decided by runoff in December, but a Republican is certain to win as both of the top two were Republicans.

  62. 62
    Schlemizel says:


    I assume that the carcase will be bought by the same group that is running it now. I have seen this done before. Not only do they get out of all their debt they buy the assets for pennies on the dollar & the bank even loans them the money to do it.

    The are freed of creditors and crush the union. The new workers (often the same people because where else are they gonna find work?) make quiet a bit less and have no protection.

  63. 63
    JPL says:

    @Schlemizel: You are probably right. When my thirty something son, first had a slice of wonder bread at the age of two, he thought it was a cookie.

  64. 64
    NonyNony says:

    @El Cid:

    Because mocking the low pay and benefits of your cooks and waitstaff with possibly undiagnosed and untreated illnesses always ends well for the customer, and fills people with confidence in selecting your company to buy food from.

    I think it’s fairly obvious that these Masters Of The Universe who run restaurants where they demand to be able to pay their workers a pittance with no health care to make food care as much about their customer’s health as they do their employees.

  65. 65
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @JPL: Never. BTW who owns Hostess, is it Bain by any chance.

  66. 66
    Narcissus says:

    I haven’t been to a Denny’s or Papa Johns in years.

  67. 67
    schrodinger's cat says:

    I have eaten at Denny’s once and never at Papa John’s. It would be interesting to see how this decision affects their sales.

  68. 68
    PurpleGirl says:

    @j: You want to bet that Hostess is owned by a hedge fund or a “private equity” fund? (Something like Bain Capital.)

  69. 69
    double nickel says:

    Off to Winnipeg to see Neil Young and Crazy Horse tonight. Good times!

  70. 70
    hep kitty says:

    I don’t want to hear about Benghazi from republicans.

    It took 3 years for the 9/11 Commission, which was formed one year after the attacks, to issue its final report which was a joke.

    I think republicans need to be reminded of this when they start whining about Benghazi.

  71. 71
    hep kitty says:

    @Jon Rockoford: This is an excellent point. My niece, who used to work in restaurants, had to go in sick in the past.

    Those ppl who care only about “me and mine” and screw the wait staff should care about that. Most of them eat at crappy places just like that.

  72. 72
    jibeaux says:

    We went to Denny’s once, for breakfast on the road with the two kids. Oddly, the waitress was phenomenally good, funny and patient with the kids, and quick and didn’t miss a beat. I would’ve hired her as a nanny on the spot.

  73. 73
    jibeaux says:

    @hep kitty: Going out on a limb here, but I bet the 9/11 Commission members attended security briefings too.

  74. 74
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    I view complaining about quality of restaurants in the same way I view criticism of music: People have wildly different tastes and comforts, and it’s really kind of pointless bashing things like that. A lot of people like chain restaurants because you can generally walk into one anywhere and know exactly what you are getting.

  75. 75
    bemused says:


    The Honey Boo Boo families of America.

  76. 76
    PeakVT says:

    @Schlemizel: Good point. One might think that kind of self-dealing would be barred, but apparently not.

  77. 77
    magurakurin says:

    @Jon Rockoford:

    Here’s the deal. If you eat a pizza a Papa John’s you deserve whatever you get. Fuck Papa John’s. I’d rather eat my own vomit than eat a Papa John’s pizza.

  78. 78
    Jay in Oregon says:


    Well then how they not go broke years ago?

    Acording to Wikipedia, Interstate Bakeries (the original name for Hostess) filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in 2004 and spent five years there before emerging as Hostess. And Hostess filed for Chapter 11 again in January of this year.

  79. 79
    NonyNony says:


    So you are saying nobody has bought a loaf of Wonder Bread or a Twinkee, Ho-Ho or other crap-cake in years? Well then how they not go broke years ago?

    Tastes change. Wonder bread used to be a high-end brand when it first hit the scene back in the 1920s. Well off families bought Wonder bread. That changed over the decades to where Wonder bread is now part of the punchline to a joke about mayo and trailer parks.

    Twinkies, Ho-hos, and their other cakes are the same way. When they hit the scene they were a premium brand. They got hit on the one side by health consciousness and on the other side by changing fast/quick service food models. Why buy a Twinkie when you can stop by Starbucks and get a fresh(er) cupcake? Or Panera and get a cinnamon roll? Or McDonalds and get warm cookies?

    Hostess has been bleeding business for decades. If it had better management it could have adjusted by changing its portfolio of brands. But from what I’ve read, Hostess management has mostly been inept over the years and assuming that the American appetite for junk food would be endless.

  80. 80

    I decided to get with the times and do what any self-respecting novelist does in the innertubz age: Set up a dedicated blog to my novels and try to drive up a reader base. This is better than inflicting my literary musings as a readership that comes to Pottersville looking for political content. So far, I have four posts up and plan on publishing excerpts, reviews, articles about writing and the publishing game and perhaps even interviews.

  81. 81
    lol says:

    Saw a similar kind of bellyaching in Seattle when we passed a law mandating a small amount of paid sick leave for restaurant employees. Some restaurant owners screamed to the press that they were going to have to cut hours, etc. Amounted to nothing.

  82. 82
    R-Jud says:

    @Valdivia: I have never been so humiliated playing Scrabble before or since. It was me and the then-boyfriend against Harper and his roommate, who was a professional juggler with a geology degree, and they just blew us away. I did, however, clean up at Boggle a couple of times.

  83. 83
    Seanly says:


    The thought is that the old couple who tips only $0.50 will drop their tip to $0.25 when their Denny’s bill goes from $20 to $20.10.

  84. 84
    MomSense says:

    The owners of these chain restaurants and companies like WalMart are the real “moochers” or “takers” or whatever the hell the correct term is in Galtian parlance.

    Their business model depends on taxpayer’s assistance for the TANF and Medicaid and food stamps that make it possible for their employees to subsist while earning piss wages.

    Having worked near one of those Hostess bakeries for a number of years I will tell you that whatever they were baking inside smelled awfully good and made you want to pig out on donuts. I feel terribly for the workers.

  85. 85
    Dork says:

    blowing hobos for food money

    I smell a great band name.

  86. 86
    RSA says:


    I think it’s fairly obvious that these Masters Of The Universe who run restaurants where they demand to be able to pay their workers a pittance with no health care to make food care as much about their customer’s health as they do their employees.

    A couple of years ago my wife and I had burgers at a bar and grill, a local franchise. We had a bit of stomach upset afterwards and so we called the place to let them know; we weren’t asking for any compensation, but were thinking that they might want to know–we liked the place. The manager argued that it couldn’t have been their food, because they’d had no other reports.

    So we came away from that experience with three lessons. First, we weren’t going back to that place. Second, some businesses are defensive about their product to the point of being jerks about it. Third, it’s probably really hard to prove that you got bad food somewhere, unless you get very sick and have your stomach pumped.

  87. 87
    Schlemizel says:

    @Jay in Oregon: @NonyNony:
    Yet they are still selling crap. Maybe not as much crap as 40 years ago but there is still a market.

    Given the shelf life maybe they can move operations to China & ship the crap here. That would reduce the price & help them move more crap.

    But having worked with vendors who went through the bankrupt/buy-self-back route thats my guess

    As for who owns them – Ripplewood Holdings has a 50 percent equity stake with lines/loans by GE Capital, Silver Point Finance and Monarch Master Funding.

    BTW – they also make Dolly Madison, Natures Pride and a couple of other lines so its not all wonder & ho-ho. MY personal favorite of their other brands though is BIMBO – which if you have been to Mexico you may have seen. My younger son has a BIMBO soccer jersey!

  88. 88
    Schlemizel says:


    Ripplewood Holdings

    an American private equity firm based in New York, New York[1] that focuses on leveraged buyouts, late stage venture, growth capital, management buyouts, leveraged recapitalizations and other illiquid investments.


  89. 89
    Guess Who says:

    Papa John is now living the American Dream thanks to intelligence, hard work, and determination. He is of course everything envious Marxists hate–wealthy, powerful, successful, self-reliant.

    He even has his own private golf course by his mansion! Boy, that must REALLY piss you off.

    He is also from my area originally–southern Indiana, just outside Louisville. And nothing hits the spot like an extra large with extra cheese and pepperoni w/Papa’s garlic sauce! Mmmm Mmmm MMM! Best pizza around.

  90. 90
    PurpleGirl says:

    Yup… Hostess is owned by a private equity firm, looks like it’s Ripplewood something. Their website has been shut down; go to it and you get “This website is unavailable”.

  91. 91
    R-Jud says:

    @Schlemizel: They opened here yesterday and are in town through the 22nd of December. I shall have many more sausages this holiday season.

  92. 92
    Schlemizel says:



    you lucky busterd

  93. 93
    schrodinger's cat says:

    If finance is the life blood of an economy, the financial sector has now become a cancer on the economy, if we don’t treat it aggressively it will devour the entire economy, again.

  94. 94
    Jamey says:

    @Jay in Oregon: Which, of course, means that everything is the overpaid line-workers’ fault… (qv: Pontiac Aztek.)

  95. 95
    PeakVT says:

    @Schlemizel: According to Wikipedia, BIMBO is an entirely separate baking multinational.

  96. 96
    Paul says:

    @Guess Who:

    Papa John is now living the American Dream thanks to intelligence, hard work, and determination. He is of course everything envious Marxists hate—wealthy, powerful, successful, self-reliant. He even has his own private golf course by his mansion! Boy, that must REALLY piss you off.

    Marxists? Why am I not surprised at the name calling from people of your ilk. Actually I am a strong believer in capitalism and free markets. This also means I believe that people have the right to boycott who ever they want. What Papa John said is not much different than your pal Romney’s disgusting comments last night.

    If you are going to insult your customers, don’t be surprised if they take their business elsewhere as I have already done. As a matter of fact, I found a local pizza place just around the block whose pizza is better tasting than Papa John’s. Capitalism in its truest form. You should try it some time.

  97. 97
    Guess Who says:


    Drop in the bucket. Papa John will remain very wealthy and extremely successful. Jealous?

  98. 98
    Schlemizel says:


    eh? maybe they sold it – BIMBO was part of the company in the mid-00’s I know. I suppose I could wiki it but thats haaaaard.

  99. 99
    magurakurin says:

    @Guess Who:

    Best pizza around.

    of course, this is coming from a guy who likes to lick buffalo ass, so, you know, your mileage may vary.

  100. 100
    MattMinus says:

    I’ve never run a restaurant, but I have managed other types of shops, and I have to imagine that all this talk of moving to an almost entirely part time workforce is bullshit. Hiring costs money, and part timers aren’t going to stick around as long as full timers. I’d have to imagine that your training costs go up, both due to increased churn and the fact that you’re doing the same job with more people.

    There are probably about a billion more reasons why this is stupid, but if staffing with part timers was such a great thing, they’d be doing it already.

  101. 101
    Guess Who says:

    BTW, local pizza places are even more likely to have Republican, conservative owners. They hate ObamaCare even more than the big boys. Producers will almost always be rock-ribbed Republicans.

  102. 102
    magurakurin says:

    but if staffing with part timers was such a great thing, they’d be doing it already.

    exactly. The reason this asshole is whining so loud is because he is stuck like a pig. He’ll have to comply with the law or shut down his shitty business. His choice. I’ve never eaten his shitty pizza and I never will and his employers will find work at the next pizza shop that fills whatever void he leaves. Fuck him.

  103. 103
    Guess Who says:


    Papa John makes more money in a day than you will make in a lifetime. :)

  104. 104
    Ksmiami says:

    @Jon Rockoford: my servsafe teacher made the point that you should only eat in places where employees earn a living wage and healthcare if not for moral reasons but for your own health!!!

  105. 105
    magurakurin says:

    @Guess Who:

    local pizza places are even more likely to have Republican, conservative owners.

    except when they don’t.

    Pizza man power lifts Obama

    hahahahahaha. what an asshole you are. Don’t you have some goats to fuck or something?

  106. 106
    PurpleGirl says:

    @MattMinus: My local Key Food grocery store apparently has moved to all part time cashiers and only a few of them at that. I imagine that the owner thinks he’s saving money but, yes, he’s had turnover in staff and people who can drive to other stores do so and therefore his overall revenue is down. Stupid is as stupid does (and I dislike that movie so much, but that line is so true and applicable).

  107. 107
    magurakurin says:

    @Guess Who:

    Maybe if your lucky, Papa John will let you toss his salad. I mean you can dream, right? hahahahahahaha. asshole.

  108. 108
    bemused says:


    Tastes do change when you have stopped eating “food” products with a lot of preservatives and who knows what all. When we attend benefits, graduation parties, etc. and hit the food table, I can immediately smell an awful odor from rolls, buns that are loaded with this stuff and want to gag.

  109. 109
    Schlemizel says:


    Many already run on PT help. Truth be told kitchen help can some of the most difficult there is to manage. Stable, reliable, cooks are a gift from FSM.

    But the slop shops we are hearing from don’t really have professional staff anyway. They mostly rely on kids & undocumented workers. There is a huge turnover (my kid went from line cook to kitchen manager in one well-known chain in about 8 months while working PT & going to college FT simply because he was willing to work & stayed through the constant churn of people coming & going).

    Those places, the big chains, make money by serving consistent if uninspiring food as cheaply as possible. Quality is not high on their agenda & the formulas for churning it out don’t suffer all that much when the staff is inexperienced (speed does though). They just don’t care. The crudest example is McDonalds. They did not sell trillions of brown cow-like things because they care about quality they did it because you can get the cow-like stuff very cheap and any kid who does not want to churn it out for minimum wage & personal abuse can be replaced by one who will put up with it for a few months.

  110. 110
    Ksmiami says:

    @Maude: of course hostess should have gone public and expanded to Asia a long time ago so their management is obvious the suck!

  111. 111
    Scott S. says:

    @Guess Who: Herman Cain would like a word with you.

  112. 112
    Kane says:

    Hostess got Bained.

  113. 113
    dmsilev says:

    @Guess Who:

    And nothing hits the spot like an extra large with extra cheese and pepperoni w/Papa’s garlic sauce! Mmmm Mmmm MMM! Best pizza around.

    As knowledgeable about pizza as you are about electoral politics.

  114. 114
    jake the snake says:

    Papa John’s comments are bullshit, because the great majority of the workers are already part-time.
    He is blowing smoke, unless he is will the gamble that
    reduction in service will be blamed an the ACA and
    not on the individual restaurants.
    @ Guess Who
    Rent-seekers are indeed mostly Republicans, producers are mostly Democrats.

  115. 115
    j says:

    @Maude: Hostess is demanding that the employees take another 8% pay cut (on top of the other 2 they agreed to in 2004 and 2009) plus the employees have to pay more for health insurance, which will offer less than they are now getting, plus the employees have to say goodbye to their pensions, which they have been paying into for years.

    It’s only the bakers union that is on strike, but the rest of the employees are backing them.

    Why won’t Hostess management take a pay cut?

  116. 116
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:


    Only after he fucks the buffalo though.

  117. 117
    Schlemizel says:


    Well I think, as others here have pointed out, that they are just on the wrong side of the market right now. People want actual taste in bread and are avoiding the huge caloric loads of sugar filled with whipped fat.

    That the vultures should now swoop in & pluck the carcase insuring the worst possible outcome for the workers, the creditors and the shareholders while fattening their own greasy parasitic bodies is just SOP in todays America.

  118. 118
    PurpleGirl says:

    @Schlemizel: the shareholders

    The shareholders are the private equity firm and their own investors; Hostess such as it is doesn’t have separate shareholders. It’s wholly owned by the private equity fund and they want to get all the cash out of it that they can at this point.

    ETA: What we are seeing here is exactly what Romney and Bain did to the companies they owned, screwed and then closed.

  119. 119
    Jamey says:

    @Paul: I guess if somebody has to feed the trolls, it should be with Wonder Bread and Poopoo John’s pizza.

  120. 120
    peorgietirebiter says:

    @Guess Who: I get the feeling you think great wealth is required to fully realize your god given “assholiness” potential. Carefull what you wish for, wealth is a double edged sword and the road is littered with the wealthy who’ve “settled” for the human condition of occasional “assholiness” often followed by reflection and remorse. You may want to focus on staying in the present- you’re quite the asshole just as you are, enjoy it.

  121. 121
    Schlemizel says:


    only 50% of the share holders. Their half will do OK but the other half . . . no so much

  122. 122

    @Jon Rockoford:

    I don’t want Typhoid Mary making my pizza!

    Now there’s a good bumper sticker…

  123. 123
    KXB says:


    Hostess has not introduced new snack products in 40 years. By contrast, Nabisco & Frito-Lay are always introducing new snacks, and if they don’t sell well, they stop making them. Hostess’ problems are the result of market competition and consumer tastes, not the unions. I have not eaten a Hostess product since I was 10, because they taste like a factory floor.

  124. 124
    hep kitty says:

    @Guess Who: I’m not the one going to Hell so I’m not particularly jealous

  125. 125

    @Guess Who:
    “If you want to know what God thinks of money, just look at the people he gave it to.” (Dorothy Parker)

  126. 126
    shortstop says:


    BTW Forbes magazine puts the cost at no more than 4.6 cents per pizza so the bastard can’t even tell the truth about that

    And probably lower than that. Who could have predicted the juvenile grandstanders would also be liars?

  127. 127


    The crudest example is McDonalds. They did not sell trillions of brown cow-like things because they care about quality they did it because you can get the cow-like stuff very cheap and any kid who does not want to churn it out for minimum wage & personal abuse can be replaced by one who will put up with it for a few months.

    I think this is actually missing an important point. Companies like that stay in business precisely because they can produce food of acceptable quality in spite of the problems you describe. The ability to make consistent food despite completely inconsistent staff is their real specialty. McDonald’s* isn’t the worst hamburger out there because they’re incapable of cooking; they’re the worst hamburger out there because they define the minimum quality standard. Your mom-and-pop place can’t match McDonald’s for price, so if you can’t beat them on quality you aren’t going to stay in business for long.

    And if you crave a fast food burger and have it available, go to In-n-Out. They not only make an excellent fast food burger, they do it while treating their staff decently.

    *Or whichever chain you think is the absolute worst; no arguments about McD vs. White Castle.

  128. 128
    TR says:

    Wow, I’m amazed that such a progressive chain as Denny’s — you know, the one that was notorious for its racism against black customers — has acted in this way.

  129. 129


    As knowledgeable about pizza as you are about electoral politics.

    At least Brick Oven Bill cared about decent pizza.

  130. 130
    shortstop says:

    I heard Allen West is so depressed he’s spending the day slumped in a corner booth at Denny’s.

  131. 131
    TR says:

    @Guess Who:

    Papa John’s pizza is cardboard and ketchup.

    You’re from southern Indiana? Well, no wonder you like it. You probably think Chef Boy-ar-Dee’s canned ravioli is the tastiest pasta in the world too.

  132. 132
    shortstop says:

    @dmsilev: I know a Twinkie-lover when I see one. Probably has Ho-Hos on the sly, too.

  133. 133
    James K. Polk, Esq. says:



  134. 134
    jonas says:


    Low wage employers have been relying on the social safety net a long time, because the fact is people can’t really survive on such low wages. It’s about time they started paying for it.

    This times a million. Eric Schlosser really hit home this point in Fast Food Nation — part of the “fast food” business model is to foist off expenses such as training, health care, workman’s comp, etc., onto the individual worker or society and pocket the profit. So if a slaughterhouse worker gets injured, you don’t work to increase safety, you just fire the guy and let Medicaid take care of his maimed arm.

  135. 135
    kathleen says:

    “Katherine” Harris, hon. I’m picky about who I share my name with.

  136. 136
    Schlemizel says:

    @Roger Moore:

    I agree with your point. A part of the problem is people accept really awful burgers (its not just mickie Ds) because they are cheap and dependable. Those are two admirable qualities but hardly a gold standard when it comes to food.

    The modern American supermarket is full of tasteless shit simply because it is cheap and dependable. There is a reason you can have a tomato in January in Minnesota and it is inexpensive. The price you pay is the cardboard container the tomato was shipped in cost more to produce and tastes as good.

  137. 137
    Schlemizel says:


    Its not just the food industry any more. CBS SUnday morning did a bit about a manufacturer in NV that was having problems finding workers capable of handling the skills needed for their plant. Had to read blue prints & do complex math. Not really that difficult but enough I guess. They got the State to run a training program – 16 weeks of remedial training after which they hired a few . . . for $12 an hour.

    Not that long ago a factory worker could get by with less skill and still make enough to buy a house, raise 6 kids, help them with college and retire with dignity (thanks dad). Today he would have to know trig, have a working spouse and still qualify for the earned income credit. SOmething is deeply wrong in this society & it ain’t the government!

  138. 138

    Privatize profits and socialize costs. It’s the essence of modern crony capitalism.

  139. 139
    Soonergrunt says:

    @Guess Who: You are a stupid motherfucker. 60% of small businesses provide health insurance to their employees.
    Here’s one such right here:

    And I for one don’t mind paying a little bit extra. If an extra 3 to 15 cents is what it takes to help John Schnatter be a good Christian, that’s my duty.

  140. 140
    MaryRC says:

    Even the customers are getting into the act. From one of the more hysterical wingnut blogs:

    We are leaving the following on a business card at all restaurants starting January 1
    Barack Obama and YOUR TIP:
    We are sorry to inform you , that due to the cost of OBAMACARE, your normally 20-25% tip has been adjusted to the amount you see reflected . We will now have to put the amount that would have otherwise gladly gone to you, towards paying our increased taxes. Unfortunately, OUR “fair share” now results in YOUR decreased tip. We hope that, if you voted for the current president, if nothing else, this will be “food” for thought. If you didn’t, please share this with other like-minded people, so they can see the results of such disastrous policy in action.

    Fair enough. Just don’t think of going back to that particular Denny’s again.

  141. 141
    Origuy says:

    Twinkie fans will have to smuggle them over the border.

    Despite its troubles, Canadians need not worry about Hostess products disappearing anytime soon.
    Saputo holds the rights to the Hostess brand in Canada and operates it as a separate entity.

  142. 142
    Jay in Oregon says:

    The GOP goal for the next four years is to simply punish everyone who voted for Obama.

    Or may have voted for Obama.

    Or shares a skin tone with the President.

  143. 143
    peorgietirebiter says:


    Had to read blue prints & do complex math.

    When I graduated high school in 1970 – the ability to read bluprints or schematics and do complex math, with no other experience,would get you hired at my old man’s tool & die shop. He would probably start the kid at $7.75 per hour & bump him to $12.00 after a year of solid, reliable work.
    Over time after 40, one week vacation, health insurance and dental if you wanted to pay for it.

    This was 1970 and the old man was a Goldwater Republican. He hated unions but believed you paid for a persons time- properly and promptly.

  144. 144
    LanceThruster says:

    This always worries me in these situations because the individual franchisee and corporate are not necessarily in lockstep. Just like with “punish the oil companies” boycotts, it’s usually individual station owners who bear the brunt of the anger however unjustified.

  145. 145
    shortstop says:

    @MaryRC: Please. Like one of these motherfuckers ever tipped 20-25 percent. I know these people from my table-waiting days in college, and from being related to a couple of them now. They leave a buck for a $50 check when eight of them eat at Denny’s.

  146. 146
    priscianusjr says:

    Allen West needs to take a vacation. A permanent vacation.

  147. 147
    bemused says:


    Best pizza around? This has to be Doug playing troll.

  148. 148
    j says:

    Just heard on the Stephanie Miller show that that wingnut franchisee in New York who owns a shit load of Denny’s restaurants and was going to charge an “Obamacare surcharge of 5%” got a “friendly, persuasive” call from the corporate offices and he is now “walking it back”.

    I guess Denny’s doesn’t their brand being stunk up by some asswhole. That guy could lose his franchises for this stunt.

  149. 149
    Felonius Monk says:


    MY personal favorite of their other brands though is BIMBO – which if you have been to Mexico you may have seen.

    Interesting. Are you talking about the BIMBO that I buy in my local grocery store made by BimboBakeriesUSA? They also make SaraLee baked goods, Entenmanns, Arnold, Thomas, etc.


  150. 150
    j says:

    ANOTHER deep sea oil well just blew up in the Gulf. 4 injured (being flown to a hospital) 2 missing, presumed to be blown out to sea.

  151. 151
    Another Halocene Human says:

    @amk: But it’s the party that sucks, and FWIU, the Tex Dem Party is actually worse.

    The Fla AFL-CIO is pretty active and doing good things. They’ve got a 10-year plan to flip state house seats, plus the FairDistricts law, so this gerrymandered situation will not be eternal. Well, except for Corrinne Brown.

    If you want to see Florida turn blue, I would suggest donating to Fla AFL-CIO’s COPE Committee instead of to the Florida Dem Party or the DCCC. Because they suck.

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