Briefings on the fiscal staircase of very gradual change…

Keven Drum over at Mother Jones has two good posts up about the latest manufactured deadline of scary fiscal doom.

This one breaks down what the facts really are and this one points out that the tax solutions President Obama is offering are the same ones he put forth over a year ago–and made a core part of his re-election effort. He won decisively and he has a clear mandate from voters for his policies.  Nutters everywhere just hate that.

How about an open thread…

Cheers

ps: Pumkinhead the Younger met the Nancy Smash earlier this morning. Good times.

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90 replies
  1. 1
    Corner Stone says:

    fucking word press, how does edit work?

  2. 2
    Corner Stone says:

    He sold me out(tm) !!

  3. 3
    dmsilev says:

    Luke Russert probably thinks he got where he is solely on merit.

  4. 4
    Yutsano says:

    Note to Little Luke: Pelosi is a nonna. You do not fuck with nonnas. They will cut you and make you thank them for the experience.

  5. 5

    Apparently Luke Russert just asked Nancy Pelosi why she didn’t step aside to make way for younger leadership.

    Which begs the question: why doesn’t Luke Russert step aside to make way for more experienced journalists? Let’s start a WhiteHouse.gov petiion.

  6. 6
    Zifnab25 says:

    I don’t know if “Fiscal Cliff” is going to benefit Republicans this time around. Obama’s had four years to play the game, and if the Sequestration fight is any indication, his 11-D chess moves are nothing to sneeze at.

    If anything, working the conservatives in Congress into a panicked lather over nothing is going to make them more likely to leap at another deal Boehner can walk away from, having been satisfied with 98% of it, and still regret like hell six months later.

  7. 7
    Ted & Hellen says:

    He won decisively and he has a clear mandate from voters for his policies.

    Now if he will just act accordingly, we’ll be all set.

  8. 8
    Ash Can says:

    The fact remains, though, that we’re going to continue to hear the term “fiscal cliff” regardless of how often and/or thoroughly it’s debunked, because the press no longer has the election “horse race” to tout, and needs to find another “horse race” to hitch its collective ratings to.

  9. 9
    Culture of Truth says:

    KE7EN

    what’s in the box?!!?

  10. 10
    JCT says:

    @Yutsano: Hah – no joke, especially in the kitchen, I learned that one the hard way.

    The best part is that he didn’t shut up — kept pressing his “point”.

    Fucking maroon old Lil Luke.

  11. 11
    The Red Pen says:

    Every other wingnut post complains that “the liberals” or “the DemonRATS” or whatever “don’t follow the Constitution.” It’s a senseless rant, but I finally figured out a context where it’s perfectly true: if the constitution we’re talking about is for the Confederate States of America. I don’t think the wingnuts realize they’re talking about the CSA, but it makes total sense when you think about it — which you shouldn’t because life is short.

    BTW, there’s this growing cacophony about Valerie Jarret being the Most Evil Person Evah(tm). Don’t know where it came from, but she’s the new Van Jones/Elizabeth Warren/Ted Kennedy/(ad infinitum).

  12. 12
    Cassidy says:

    Which begs the question: why doesn’t Luke Russert step aside to make way for more experienced journalists in front of a bus moving at high speed?

    A man can dream right?

  13. 13
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Yutsano:

    Note to Little Luke: Pelosi is a nonna. You do not fuck with nonnas. They will cut you and make you thank them for the experience.

    Unless of course you are George Dubya Bush, in which case the nonna will pre-emptively take impeachment off the table and cut herself while thanking you for the experience.

  14. 14

    Ah just saw the P.S.

    Sorry.

    Okay here’s another one: 1,000 Broward County ballots found in a warehouse. Ooops.

  15. 15
    Nethead Jay says:

    Heh, I just clicked over here to post Nancy Smash slapping Russert Junior upside the head but glad to see you’re on it. Here’s video of it :-)

  16. 16
    WereBear says:

    Honest to goodness, when talking to people about the election, “deficit” came up about as often as “carbon credits.”

    Good or bad, it’s just not as high on the radar of most.

  17. 17
    dr. bloor says:

    Lil Lukie jumped to the head of the class solely on his last name, and undoubtedly fancies himself as among the young, new leadership in journalism. Why should Congress work differently?

    I seldom feel urges to violence, but if we ever cross paths I’m going to plant my boot right in that little fuckwit’s junk. I simply cannot abide arrogance and rank ignorance in one package.

  18. 18
    Ash Can says:

    I’m starting to understand why the only people Russert ever seems to have on his show are John McCain and Lindsay Graham. He pisses everyone else off so much that even if they were to agree to come on his show, he’s afraid to have them on for fear that they’d be doing it for the sole purpose of rolling up their sleeves and beating the shit out of him on live TV.

  19. 19
    Culture of Truth says:

    Someone once asked Queen Elizabeth if she would step aside for Prince Charles. He was brought to the Tower and never heard from again.

  20. 20
    Bulworth says:

    I don’t see any problem with Luke’s original question, but as the back and forth continued it sounded like he had some particular ax to grind. Pelosi could have pointed to younger House Dems involved in leadership such as Chris Van Hollen (Budget) and I don’t how old Steve Israel is (DCCC) but there are younger Dems involved. At the same time, NancySMASH could have pointed out that she’s merely stating her intention to run for the leadership post and that the party is free to select which leader they believe will be best at achieving Democratic goals, etc.

  21. 21
    handsmile says:

    Via TPM, a video clip of Nancy SMASH disemboweling nepotistic nitnit Luke Russert at the press conference announcing her decision to seek reelection as House Minority Leader:

    http://livewire.talkingpointsm.....s-question

    This deserves to go viral. Russert, once again, demonstrates why he deserves a new line of employment.

    Pelosi’s withering riposte and evident contempt for Russert is more evidence of what James Fallows identified last week:

    “For the first time in my conscious life, the Democratic party is now more organized and coherent, and less fractious and backbiting…”

  22. 22
    Culture of Truth says:

    Russert has a show? What’s it about?

  23. 23
    Literalreddy says:

    @Ash Can: We can start using the term ‘Austerity Bomb’ (h/t Brian Beutler of TPM via High Priest of Shrill Krugman) instead of fiscal cliff. ‘Austerity Bomb’ is more accurate on so many levels.

  24. 24
    Yutsano says:

    @Culture of Truth: It’s like Seinfeld, but nowhere near as entertaining.

  25. 25
    Cassidy says:

    @Yutsano: Seinfeld was entertaining?

  26. 26

    @The Red Pen:
    You’re just not speaking Narcissist (which admittedly most people stop speaking after the age of two). What they’re saying is ‘I didn’t win, so you must be cheating!’ The language of the Constitution is archaic and deliberately vague enough they can come up with a few quotes that sorta sound like they support this argument, and assume the rest must be in there somewhere.

    They really believe this, though. They’re SURE they’re the large majority of normal people and much better than us in every way, so if we ever win it has to be because we’re cheating. Alcoholics, domestic abusers, narcissists, religious conservatives, and racists, the GOP is a true melting pot.

  27. 27
    shortstop says:

    As was asked two threads down, what (other than tra-dish-un, tra-dish-un, TRADITION!) is stopping Steny Hoyer and James Clyburn from stepping down if age is really the issue?

    I can’t think of an “older” (in outlook, mien and work style) Democrat than Hoyer.

  28. 28
    Keith says:

    The constant use of metaphor to describe the impending default, etc drives me nuts. Not so much on blogs, but on the news. It’s to the point where NOBODY even says what “the fiscal cliff” is; it’s “the donut hole” all over again. Why is it that no news person in the last 30 years can mention a black hole without qualifying it with “gravity so strong that nothing – not even light – can escape”, yet they can talk about “fiscal cliffs” and “donut holes” without ever explaining what they are?

  29. 29
    MattR says:

    @Bulworth:

    I don’t see any problem with Luke’s original question, but as the back and forth continued it sounded like he had some particular ax to grind.

    I actually saw it exactly the opposite. His initial question was offensive as hell because it focused on Nancy Pelosi but his follow ups indicated that he was referring to the Democratic leadership as a whole. I still have a problem with his “Some Democrats privately say” formulation, but I don’t think it is unreasonable to point out that the Democratic leadership is getting up there in age and asking what they are doing to prepare the next generation to step in. Who is the youngest democrat in a Congressional leadership position? I am not counting Debbie Wasserman Schultz since she is head of the DNC.

  30. 30
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Southern Beale: He’s younger than his dad was, therefore he is better.

  31. 31

    Speaking of nutters everywhere:

    Madison – As Gov. Scott Walker contemplates whether to create a state health care exchange under Obamacare, he will have to contend in the coming legislative session with nine lawmakers who have said they back a bill to arrest any federal officials who try to implement the health care law.
    __
    Eight of the nine Republicans also have gone on record saying they also want to write a law that would see airport screeners charged with sexual assault if they conduct overly invasive pat-downs of passengers going through security.

    Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t Obama win decisively in Wisconsin, despite a native son being on the Republican ticket? Yes, he did. Wonder if Scott Walker gets that message. Seems to me he is not the brightest bulb in the chandelier.

  32. 32

    @Keith:
    Assume laziness and incompetence. The answer becomes ‘Trying to explain the Fiscal Cliff is confusing and boring. Explaining black holes sounds cool and is a level of science you (the journalist) need reminding of.’

  33. 33

    @SatanicPanic:

    Sometimes young people just need to get the fuck offa my lawn.

  34. 34
    Yutsano says:

    @Cassidy: I personally hated the show. But for whatever reason people watched it.

    Wait, are we talking about Lil Luke Fauntleroy still?

  35. 35
    shortstop says:

    @MattR:

    I actually saw it exactly the opposite. His initial question was offensive as hell because it focused on Nancy Pelosi but his follow ups indicated that he was referring to the Democratic leadership as a whole.

    Right, and when she asked him if he was suggesting that all three of them step down, he was flummoxed.

  36. 36
    Ash Can says:

    @Bulworth: The problem with Luke’s original question is that he’s asking it of the most effective legislative party leader in recent memory, in front of the single group of people who are the most supportive of her, after giving no one any reason to believe he’d ask the same question of any of Pelosi’s counterparts, for any of the same reasons. (Can you see him posing that same question to John Boehner? If he did, I’d expect to hear a crash offscreen as several knives and a hand grenade fell out of Eric Cantor’s inside jacket pocket as he attempted to remain hidden behind some drapery.) I can agree that the question in and of itself, in a vacuum, is reasonable. In context, however, Russert is doing no more than painting a big target on himself and begging to be ridiculed.

  37. 37
    shortstop says:

    @Southern Beale: It’s true. We focus so much on the many inappropriate lawn clearings that we forget some yards really need to be swept of certain utes.

  38. 38
    kindness says:

    I am literally hating NPR right now. Since Obama took office they have been total deficit scolds always proclaiming how these terrible deficits are threatening America. Now we come to a moment where the deficit can be actually addressed and what does NPR do? Just today they mount the Shrieking Harpy posture of proclaiming how these ‘burdens’ of additional taxes are going to KILL America (and yet they also managed the difficult double hypocrite move of also saying how the deficits will kill us in the very same piece).

    There are some Media Outlets that deserve death. I’m lookin’ at you NPR!

  39. 39
    shortstop says:

    @Ash Can:

    (Can you see him posing that same question to John Boehner? If he did, I’d expect to hear a crash offscreen as several knives and a hand grenade fell out of Eric Cantor’s inside jacket pocket as he attempted to remain hidden behind some drapery.)

    Hilarious.

  40. 40
    Culture of Truth says:

    He’s younger than his dad was, therefore he is better

    Tim Russert wrote a whole book like that

  41. 41
    MattR says:

    @shortstop:

    Right, and when she asked him if he was suggesting that all three of them step down, he was flummoxed.

    Because that is an over the top solution to the problem. To use a sports analogy, pointing out that a football team’s QB, RB and two top WR are all over 35 and wondering if that team has a plan for the future after those players retire does not mean that they should get rid of all those players right now.

  42. 42
    Jewish Steel says:

    @kindness:

    I listened to NPR on election night for the first time in years. Have you ever been patronized by an imbecile? That’s what it felt like.

  43. 43
    bemused says:

    Lukie is an obnoxious little turd. Not very bright either.

  44. 44
    Democrat Partisan Asshole says:

    Eight of the nine Republicans also have gone on record saying they also want to write a law that would see airport screeners charged with sexual assault if they conduct overly invasive pat-downs of passengers going through security.

    @Southern Beale: Having been the victim of one a couple of years ago, to be honest I’m all for this.

    nine lawmakers who have said they back a bill to arrest any federal officials who try to implement the health care law.

    OTOH, fuck that noise. Although it would be great fun watching the military come get the Feds out of jail. With tanks.

  45. 45
    shortstop says:

    @MattR: Right, but it was a logical response to him originally asking why she didn’t step down due to her age. Had he done as you’re suggesting and simply asked if they had a plan for moving forward because all three of them are over 70, the question would not have been offensive.

  46. 46
    The Red Pen says:

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    You’re just not speaking Narcissist (which admittedly most people stop speaking after the age of two). What they’re saying is ‘I didn’t win, so you must be cheating!’

    OK, yeah, you nailed it. On a side note, I do speak Narcissist.

    A few years ago, I ended a friendship after putting up with several decades of tantrums and sitting in stunned silence after the guy would make the most baffling self-assessments. My wife opened the DSM IV to “Narcissistic Personality Disorder” and the only thing missing was an actual picture of him.

    When we were in high school, we got in a big fight because he lost a board game and said, “I didn’t win, so you must be cheating!” He said that verbatim. He had already started on his, “I didn’t say that [losing point], what I really said was, [different point that wasn’t as wrong]” act, so I started a tape recorder to compensate for his rapidly-evolving “recollection.” I had the tape until about 10 years ago, so I revisited it a few times and can repeat the whole thing from memory.

  47. 47

    @kindness: Right there with you. The waaaahmbulance is prolly gonna come for me but I have been calling my local NPR stations during their pledge drives and telling them why I am no longer donating after 15 years of doing so. I have been writing recommendations on their FB pages and leaving messages on their listener comment lines. Will amount to a hill of beans, but it gives me the illusion of doing something.

  48. 48
    Mark S. says:

    Overall, CBO estimates that the spending cuts will reduce GDP by about 0.8 percentage points; the end of the payroll tax holiday will reduce GDP about 0.7 percent; and the expiration of the Bush tax cuts will reduce GDP by 1.4 percentage points. . . CBO figures that letting the middle-class tax cuts expire would shrink GDP about 1.3 percentage points.

    But, but, Job Creators.

  49. 49
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Jewish Steel: That’s the best description I’ve ever heard of their political coverage. Man is it infuriating to hear morons talk like they know so much.

  50. 50

    @dmsilev:
    Well, one must at least complement his taste in parents.

    (The Tayter-Tot is truly something out of Chris Hayes Twilight of the Elites, come to life).

  51. 51
    Lee Hartmann says:

    @Southern Beale: +1000

  52. 52
    Lee Hartmann says:

    @Southern Beale: +1000

  53. 53
    Culture of Truth says:

    Yesterdy morning on NPR I learned Obama “wants to raise taxes” while Republicans “want to fix Social Security.”

    I wonder if they are even aware of how they sound.

  54. 54
    Culture of Truth says:

    Yesterdy morning on NPR I learned Obama “wants to raise taxes” while Republicans “want to fix Social Security.”

    I wonder if they are even aware of how they sound.

  55. 55
    Just One More Canuck says:

    @Ash Can: That would actually get me to watch

  56. 56
    Arclite says:

    Glad Nancy Smash. Russert’s an idiot.

    Also, glad that my rep is Tulsi. I was worried a bit, b/c her father (state senator Mike Gabbard), despite being a Dem (an expat Repub, actually), is an anti-gay bigot who lead the charge getting an anti gay marriage amendment added to the state consitution. Fortunately, she’s more socially liberal than him:

    A woman’s decision to end her pregnancy is one of the most fundamental, difficult, and soul-searching decisions in her life. I do not want government to have the power to force a woman to go through with a pregnancy or punish her if she does not. I will oppose all efforts to repeal Roe v. Wade or undermine our reproductive freedom.

    And

    Everyone deserves equal privileges, benefits, and rights and no one should be discriminated against because of their gender, age, race, ethnicity, or sexual orientation. The present two-tier system is inherently discriminatory. Therefore, I favor one legal status for all couples, regardless of sexual orientation: civil union.

  57. 57
    Jewish Steel says:

    @SatanicPanic: I mean, I’m just some knucklehead who reads a couple of blogs. How can I possibly be better informed than people who get paid to know this stuff?

    @ranchandsyrup: Good on you! Next time you fire off a letter, you can sign my name too.

  58. 58

    @The Red Pen:
    Every time the current GOP does anything, both as a party and as individual conservatives, compare it to that guy. The coverage will be damn near 100%.

  59. 59
    burnspbesq says:

    @Ted & Hellen:

    Unless of course you are George Dubya Bush, in which case the nonna will pre-emptively take impeachment off the table and cut herself while thanking you for the experience.

    Did you pass third-grade arithmetic? It appears that the number 67 is a concept that you are struggling with.

  60. 60
    geg6 says:

    ps: Pumkinhead the Younger met the Nancy Smash earlier this morning. Good times.

    I loved, loved, loved, loved that! I was just coming over here to post the video and saw you already had it, Dennis. So much awesome there that I could hardly contain myself.

  61. 61
    MattR says:

    @shortstop:

    Right, but it was a logical response to him originally asking why she didn’t step down due to her age. Had he done as you’re suggesting and simply asked if they had a plan for moving forward because all three of them are over 70, the question would not have been offensive.

    But she did not ask that question in response to his original question. She asked it in response to him clarifying that he was referring to the fact that Pelosi, Hoyer and Clyburn were all over 70. IMO, that clarification removed the offensiveness of the sexism in the initial question (but left the general offensiveness of a twit like Russert who got his job via nepotism questioning the succession plans of any other organization)

  62. 62
    burnspbesq says:

    One of the salutary effects of the discussion about the Austerity Bomb is that it has exposed the hypocrisy of the deficit scolds. Apparently, they were lying when they said they wanted the deficit reduced.

    Simpson, Bowles, and all of their groupies should be forcibly shoved back under whatever rocks they crawled out from under.

  63. 63
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Ted & Hellen:

    Because installing Dick Cheney as President after Bush’s impeachment would have solved all of our problems.

  64. 64
    catclub says:

    @burnspbesq: “it has exposed the hypocrisy of the deficit scolds”

    only to people who are paying attention.

    Atrios makes it clear, but I suspect the average person Jay Leno meets on jaywalking does not read Atrios.

  65. 65
    catclub says:

    @burnspbesq: I just read Kevin Drum, and he says (if I read correctly) that Bowles Simpson starts out by assuming that present law goes into effect — i.e. Bush tax cuts are repealed. And then cuts taxes from there.

    All the B&S groupies ignore that.

  66. 66
    MattR says:

    @catclub: Yep. There are far too many people who still think that Paul Ryan is a policy wonk with a serious proposal to reduce the deficit (or at least for those in the media, they still repeat this even if they don’t actually believe it)

  67. 67
    Yutsano says:

    @MattR: But he’s just so dreamy!!

    Seriously, at what point do the Villagers figure out he’s just an idiotic Randian hack?

  68. 68
    MattR says:

    @Yutsano: As soon as they have some financial incentive to do so.

  69. 69
    Yutsano says:

    @MattR: I just died a little. Where’s my damn TARDIS? I want off this rock!

  70. 70
    shortstop says:

    @MattR: Oh, look (every time I say that I wish I had long, skinny fingers like the president’s to wave in the air), nothing was stopping Russert from asking your edited version of the question the first time or even the second time. Russert seems to have asked the follow-up question (which never asked for a general plan of succession as you did, just kept mentioning everyone’s age) simply to justify his original question.

    Maybe it was what he’d meant originally or maybe he was looking to back himself up on having asked her specifically why she’s not stepping down. You’re assuming it was a clarification, while it sounded to me that he asked exactly what he meant to ask the first time–it was pretty obviously exactly the question he’d prepared and he was reading it–and was fumbling afterward. Either way, I don’t think it “removes the offensiveness of the original question.”

  71. 71
    lacp says:

    Pinhead, Son of Pumpkinhead

  72. 72
    Culture of Truth says:

    the average Jaywalker doesn’t care about the debt either

  73. 73
    Amusing Alias says:

    This morning Thomas Roberts used the term “Austerity Crisis” instead of “Fiscal Cliff”. I propose that we follow his lead.

    Remember: It’s not a “Fiscal Cliff”, it’s an “Austerity Crisis”.

  74. 74
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Because installing Dick Cheney as President after Bush’s impeachment would have solved all of our problems.

    A competently run Impeachment process would have exposed Cheney also. Problem solved. But you already know that; you’re just belching all the tired excuses for inaction.

    Like a true Establishment Democrat, you seek out ways to fail before you even begin to pursue your goal. Well done.

    I’m sure Schmancy had this all worked out with the Bush White House in advance anyway. Certain lines are not crossed when playing Good Cop for the entertainment of the masses.

  75. 75
    burnspbesq says:

    @Amusing Alias:

    Or, alternatively (Lawrence O’Donnell’s preferred formulation), it’s a “Fiscal Curb.”

    Interestingly enough, the governor of the Bank of England apparently said earlier today that the UK is looking at a triple-dip ice cream cone recession as a result of the Tories’ austerity fetish.

  76. 76
    burnspbesq says:

    @Ted & Hellen:

    A competently run Impeachment process would have exposed Cheney also. Problem solved Massive constitutional crisis ensues.

    FTFY. And you still haven’t told us where the 67 votes were going to come from.

  77. 77
    Anoniminous says:

    Can’t you people stop getting icky gurl cooties all over the place and go back to the kitchen where you belong?

  78. 78
    fuckwit says:

    Creating an artificial deadline is the oldest sham in the book. Every salesman and marketeer knows it.

    “Order now! Supplies are going fast!”
    “I’ve got another buyer! You’d better bid now!”
    “Offer good until…”
    “Auction ends in 2d1h15m”

    It’s just bullshit, is all.

    When people are in a hurry, they don’t think clearly, and then they buy shit they shouldn’t ought to have bought.

  79. 79
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Ted & Hellen:

    A competently run Impeachment process would have exposed Cheney also. Problem solved.

    Because, what, exposing Cheney would have magically caused him to self-destruct into a cloud of smoke and brimstone so a second trial to remove him from office after being sworn in as president wouldn’t have been necessary? Or are you picturing simultaneous impeachment trials being run at the same time? And what happens when they’re both found innocent by the 49-49 Senate? Does Cheney get to cast his own tiebreaking vote for his and Bush’s acquittal?

  80. 80
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @burnspbesq:

    A competently run Impeachment process would have exposed Cheney also. Problem solved Massive constitutional crisis ensues.

    Ah Burnsy, you really are a Republican rat fucker, aren’t you? Always coming up with reasons why the Dems just CAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN’T do anything.

    Please explain why there would be a constitutional “crisis,” since you, the MSM, and the republicans would be the only ones pretending it to be so. The constitution provides for a rather long list of succession to the presidency.

    As for your cry of OH NOZE, WHERE’S THE 67?, perhaps it would calm you, but I doubt it, to reflect on the fact that all that is required to impeach is a simple majority vote of the house.

    Oh…you, in your ratfucking hysteria, have moved on the Senate…I see how that works.

    Well, keep in mind that IMPEACHMENT, regardless of conviction or not, would have been a very healthy exercise for this country to have undergone during the reign of Bush the Retarded Younger.

    Though I’m guessing that you, being a suspect Republican Ratfucker, may disagree.

  81. 81
    burnspbesq says:

    @Ted & Hellen:

    I’m not wasting any more time trying to introduce reality into your hermetically sealed bubble, because you’ve obviously decided you’re not having any. Sod off, troll.

  82. 82
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    And what happens when they’re both found innocent by the 49-49 Senate? Does Cheney get to cast his own tiebreaking vote for his and Bush’s acquittal?

    Perhaps so…but meanwhile, we will have had a proper impeachment and trial, and most, perhaps all of the dirty, filthy, bloody laundry will have been aired for the entire world to see.

    I am all in favor of that. Why aren’t you?

    Also too: Yours and Burnsy’s reasoning is classic codependent, do nothing, good cop/bad cop Repub/Dem establishment beltway thinking. You should be proud.

  83. 83
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @burnspbesq:

    I’m not wasting any more time trying to introduce reality into your hermetically sealed bubble, because you’ve obviously decided you’re not having any. Sod off, troll.

    Shorter Burnsy: SHUT UP, SHUT UP CAUSE THAT’S WHY BELTWAY FOREVER REALITY WE JUST CAN’T TROLL TROLL.

  84. 84
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Ted & Hellen:

    Perhaps so…but meanwhile, we will have had a proper impeachment and trial, and most, perhaps all of the dirty, filthy, bloody laundry will have been aired for the entire world to see.

    Ah, yes, I had forgotten that you’re in the “stupid, useless gesture” camp, where it’s actually better to fling yourself at a brick wall over and over again than to take an action that has a chance of succeeding.

    What are you picturing, a popular rebellion of the American people that would rise up and throw Bush and Cheney into a jail cell after their acquittal just out of sheer anger? That Republicans and Republican supporters wouldn’t close ranks and screech about how all of this was just payback for Clinton’s impeachment?

    I can tell you one sure result of a Bush/Cheney impeachment in 2008: President McCain in a landslide. But since you would have preferred that, I’m guessing that’s a feature, not a bug, for you in your dream scenario.

  85. 85
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    I can tell you one sure result of a Bush/Cheney impeachment in 2008: President McCain in a landslide.

    Let’s see now: Impeachment trial exposes MASSIVE, historically unprecedented, mendacity/lying/treason/corruption/$$$ waste/thousands needlessly dead and maimed in existing Republican administration.

    Your imagined result: Election of ANOTHER Republican administration headed by a senile warmonger.

    Ummm…no. Even the American electorate is not THAT stupid or shameless.

    You are either on drugs, just plain stupid, a right wing ratfucker, or a Beltway Democrat.

  86. 86
    Brachiator says:

    @Ash Can:

    The fact remains, though, that we’re going to continue to hear the term “fiscal cliff” regardless of how often and/or thoroughly it’s debunked, because the press no longer has the election “horse race” to tout, and needs to find another “horse race” to hitch its collective ratings to

    .

    Actually, it hasn’t been debunked. The Kevin Drum piece misses the tax forest for the fiscal trees. And in a couple of places, he just flat out lies:

    You see? We’re not really going to fall off a cliff on January 1. The cumulative effect of all this stuff will be pretty small for the first few weeks. It’s only if it drags on forever that we really feel the hit….
    __
    And everyone agrees we should extend the middle-class tax cuts.

    Not everyone, and certainly not the GOP, agrees that the middle-class tax cuts should be extended.

    And Drum plays a typically weasel-word game here by conflating middle-class tax cuts with tax credits and deductions that mainly benefit the middle class and small business.

    Hell, Romney and Ryan based their entire campaign on the idea that many middle-class tax benefits were just a sop to moochers.

    Also, it is not just that the impact on delaying a decision about tax policy would be slowly cumulative; apart from any impact on GDP, it would hurt people in their pocket books immediately, and continually until Congress and the president finally came to some agreement.

    And as Drum and the Village never seem to understand, the fools in Congress also have to clean up 2012 tax issues as part of their grand bargain, or else 30 million taxpayers will see an immediate tax increase.

    @Yutsano:

    Didn’t get a chance to agree in an earlier thread about your point that the fight over taxes could seriously hurt the working poor, particularly if the Earned Income Tax Credit, the Child Tax Credit and other benefits are allowed to expire or fall back to Clinton era levels.

    Education credits may go away, as might mortgage relief and some of the more reasonable small business incentives.

  87. 87
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Ted & Hellen:

    Your imagined result: Election of ANOTHER Republican administration headed by a senile warmonger.

    Yes, because Ronald Reagan never existed. Good one.

    Ummm…no. Even the American electorate is not THAT stupid or shameless.

    Again, Ronald Reagan. Followed by HW Bush. Followed by the Clinton impeachment that helped George W Bush take the White House.

    Now who’s being naive, Timmy?

  88. 88
    Ted & Hellen says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Yes, because Ronald Reagan never existed. Good one.

    Yes, because RR was elected following the impeachment of the notorious Republican War Criminal president Jimmy Carter.

    Followed by the Clinton impeachment that helped George W Bush take the White House.

    Um hmmm…except that a huge majority of Americans OPPOSED the impeachment and Bush LOST the popular vote.

    You really do just pull bullshit right out of thin air.

  89. 89
    Felonius Monk says:

    Lukehead Junior is fast becoming the underwear stain of journalism.

  90. 90
    piratedan says:

    @burnspbesq: obviously T&H is the new purity/firebagger troll we ordered, complete with the new optional unicorn rainbow dust reality installed.

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