• Menu
  • Skip to primary navigation
  • Skip to main content
  • Skip to primary sidebar

Before Header

  • About Us
  • Lexicon
  • Contact Us
  • Our Store
  • ↑
  • ↓
  • ←
  • →

Balloon Juice

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

Screw the Judean People’s Front. Splitters.

I can’t take this shit today. I just can’t.

An almost top 10,000 blog!

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Nevertheless, she persisted.

Han shot first.

If senate republicans had any shame, they’d die of it.

We are aware of all internet traditions.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

Shock troops for the Unitarian Jihad.

A sufficient plurality of insane, greedy people can tank any democratic system ever devised, apparently.

The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.

Lighten up, Francis.

A snarling mass of vitriolic jackals

A last alliance of elves and men. also pet photos.

Women: they get shit done

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll

Where tasty lettuce and good mustard aren’t elitist.

Consistently wrong since 2002

We still have time to mess this up!

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

Mobile Menu

  • Look Forward & Back
  • Balloon Juice 2021 Pet Calendar
  • Site Feedback
  • All 2020 Fundraising
  • I Voted!
  • Take Action: Things We Can Do
  • Team Claire, and Family
  • Submit Photos to On the Road
  • BJ PayPal Donations
  • Politics
  • On The Road
  • Open Threads
  • Topics
  • Nature & Respite
  • Information As Power
  • COVID-19 Coronavirus
  • Authors
  • About Us
  • Contact Us
  • Lexicon
  • Our Store
  • Politics
  • Open Threads
  • On The Road
  • Garden Chats
  • Nature & Respite
  • Look Forward & Back
You are here: Home / Politics / An Unexamined Scandal / Petraeus Scandal: It wasn’t 30,000 emails, you guys. Get a grip.

Petraeus Scandal: It wasn’t 30,000 emails, you guys. Get a grip.

by Imani Gandy (ABL)|  November 13, 20124:55 pm| 55 Comments

This post is in: An Unexamined Scandal

Facebook0Tweet0Email0

WaPo wants you to know that General Allen and Jill Kelley did not exchange 30,000 emails. The media got it wrong. (I didn’t, but that’s neither here nor there.) It was 30,000 pages of emails; but when you remove all the repeated email threads (you know, at the bottom), and when you delete headers, email signatures and lolcats, and then divide by two and carry the one, it’s only, like, three emails.

Four, tops.

A defense official originally stated that the e-mails, sent since about 2010, numbered 20,000 to 30,000. It was quickly reported that this number in fact refers to the number of printed pages of correspondence, which actually number “a few hundred,” Craig Whitlock and Rajiv Chandrasekaran reported in today’s Post.

Allen and Kelley, who threw parties and other social events involving senior leaders at the Central Command, did exchange “a few hundred e-mails over a couple of years,” beginning when Allen was the deputy commander at the Central Command, this senior official said. But “most of them were about routine stuff.”

“He’s never been alone with her,” the senior official said. “Did he have an affair? No.”

The senior official also emphasized that the volume of communications between the two “was nowhere near” 20,000 to 30,000 personal messages. The official said the high page count reported by the FBI may have been the result of printing numerous individual messages that contained lengthy threads of earlier exchanges.

If 20,000 to 30,000 still seems like a lot of pages, consider that investigators likely reprinted entire threads every time a new message was added, and that the rigorous requirements for legal document discovery often entail repetitions, onerous formatting restrictions, and exhaustive inclusiveness. As Reuters reporter Erin Smith tweeted, “Clearly anyone who thinks that 30,000 documents = 30,000 substantive/non-duplicative documents has never suffered through a doc review.”

WaPo wants you to stop getting it wrong, America. Why? Because this is the crucial part of the story, obvs, and WaPo wouldn’t be doing its job if it didn’t report accurately the number of times General Allen was ignoring his job, or, you know, not killing bin Laden, just so he could email Ms. Kelley sideways buttcones. “get on with the slut-shaming, shall we? That’s always a good time.

[cross-posted at ABLC]

Facebook0Tweet0Email0
Previous Post: « Straight, No Chaser
Next Post: Majors and generals »

Reader Interactions

55Comments

  1. 1.

    Dave

    November 13, 2012 at 4:58 pm

    There’s something horribly ironic with ABL urging others to get a grip and stop sensationalizing facts.

    Still, though, it’s a point.

  2. 2.

    WarMunchkin

    November 13, 2012 at 5:00 pm

    I don’t really understand the Allen part. At all actually.

  3. 3.

    Chris

    November 13, 2012 at 5:03 pm

    yeah, a doctor’s wife, and “self appointed go-between” key Central Command figures and Lebanese officials has a few hundred emails to a four star which threaten another four star’s girlfriend, but which are clean enough that his staff process them.

    Outside of the FBI agent from “There’s Something About Mary”, the fatal attractions are the least interesting part of this story. This is about intelligence and high politics.

    http://www.emptywheel.net

    Enjoy.

  4. 4.

    Corner Stone

    November 13, 2012 at 5:05 pm

    @Dave:

    There’s something horribly ironic with ABL urging others to get a grip and stop sensationalizing facts.

    Well, there’s also the whole contacting the FBI thing.
    This whole scenario has me reeling.

  5. 5.

    Culture of Truth

    November 13, 2012 at 5:05 pm

    Kelley and her husband appointed themselves ad-hoc social ambassadors for military personnel at nearby MacDill Air Force Base.

    The social galas seemed to spare no expense, guests said, and often featured copious buffets, valet parking, string quartets, as well as premium cigars and champagne.

    While they were throwing glamorous parties, the Kelleys racked up substantial debt, prompting banks to initiate foreclosure proceedings on two properties and other creditors to sue them for tens of thousands in credit card debt.

  6. 6.

    Tone In DC

    November 13, 2012 at 5:07 pm

    @Dave:

    Given how some people troll certain FPers’ posts, it’s plain some of these trolls ought to get a grip.

  7. 7.

    Corner Stone

    November 13, 2012 at 5:08 pm

    I’m just not sure Irony can actually survive.

  8. 8.

    Handy

    November 13, 2012 at 5:09 pm

    Pat Robertson grades infidelity on a curve.

  9. 9.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    November 13, 2012 at 5:12 pm

    I once printed out a Balloon-Juice thread and it was around thirty thousand pages also, but once I edited out the quoted and repeated comments, the flame wars, arguments, name-calling and all the other useless stuff clogging it up, what was left was, well, actually nothing. No pages. Just the title.

  10. 10.

    El Cid

    November 13, 2012 at 5:12 pm

    Wait — so now the Washington Post supports the use of facts and numbers and verifying and stuff in reporting?

    What if they do this in actual foreign policy coverage? Won’t that make a lot of off-the-record sources less likely to use them as a PR conduit?

  11. 11.

    Felonius Monk

    November 13, 2012 at 5:14 pm

    In case anyone missed this:

    ABC Affiliate: ‘All Up In My Snatch’ Petraeus Book Graphic A ‘Mistake’

    Here’s a link: MISTAKE

    Things are getting crazy.

  12. 12.

    Yutsano

    November 13, 2012 at 5:19 pm

    @Bill E Pilgrim: Hot Air and Ill-informed Banter. It’s not just a slogan you know.

  13. 13.

    El Cid

    November 13, 2012 at 5:20 pm

    On the plus side: the whole thing is emerging with so many flat-out silly clownish aspects that it’s devaluing its prospects as the GOP’s hope for the proof of the dark conspiracy of the Obama administration’s coverup of “Benghazi” (the scandal which exists in Republican minds, and not the Libyan city where an attack was made against U.S. personnel).

    It’s not exactly seeming like the clever machinations of a puppet master, it’s more seeming like an episode of Arrested Development or some such.

  14. 14.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 13, 2012 at 5:21 pm

    @Bill E Pilgrim: I am surprised that much was left.

  15. 15.

    EconWatcher

    November 13, 2012 at 5:21 pm

    You gotta feel for the spouses. I mean, that’s some humiliating s#!t, to have the whole world reading about how you were cuckolded.

    This Dr. Scott Kelley got chumped bad. His wife Jill seems to have been the self-appointed welcome wagon for top military brass in the Tampa area. The dude’s a surgeon, graduated from Columbia University Medical School. Like I said, humiliating s#!t.

  16. 16.

    Chris

    November 13, 2012 at 5:23 pm

    @WarMunchkin:

    I don’t really understand the Allen part. At all actually.

    Wingnut friend was freaking out because Obama apparently said that Allen still had his full confidence, and yet he threw Petraeus under the bus, and liberal double-standard argle bargle.

    I find the entire thing freaking bizarre, but what the hell.

  17. 17.

    LanceThruster

    November 13, 2012 at 5:23 pm

    Let’s just get on with the slut-shaming, shall we?

    From what preacher Pat opined, it was clearly a legitimate rape.

    Poor, poor, Petraeus. Even hopelessly outgunned, he was a warrior to the end.

    If Pat follows his thought to the logical conclusion, he might see that the Mooslim burka safety shield makes a lot of sense (at least until we can go full Taliban and just not let them travel without a male relative as escort).

    “In Muslim countries, women don’t have a lot of rights. While this may seem like a good idea in theory…” Jim Jefferies

  18. 18.

    El Cid

    November 13, 2012 at 5:24 pm

    Does this mean that right wingers can’t brag as happily about THE SURGE any more?

  19. 19.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    November 13, 2012 at 5:24 pm

    @Yutsano: At least it comes with a disclaimer. How many blogs can say that?

  20. 20.

    Raven

    November 13, 2012 at 5:25 pm

    @EconWatcher: Welcome to the real world. For all anyone know it was an “arrangement”. You know, like some other people we know.

  21. 21.

    Corner Stone

    November 13, 2012 at 5:26 pm

    @Bill E Pilgrim:

    I once printed out a Balloon-Juice thread

    Why the hell would you kill a poor damn sapling for something so ill-advised?

  22. 22.

    Corner Stone

    November 13, 2012 at 5:27 pm

    @El Cid:

    Does this mean that right wingers can’t brag as happily about THE SURGE any more?

    Hm. The Surge won the war. That can not be denied.
    Ever.

  23. 23.

    Robin G.

    November 13, 2012 at 5:29 pm

    Seems to me that this was a case of accidentally reaching the correct outcome. These people all strike me as too stupid to be trusted in positions of power.

  24. 24.

    arguingwithsignposts

    November 13, 2012 at 5:30 pm

    I’m already sick of this shit, and it’s what, only day 3?

  25. 25.

    EconWatcher

    November 13, 2012 at 5:31 pm

    @Robin G.:

    Well, I hate to say it, but none appears more stupid or reckless than our own Big Dog. Just sayin’….

  26. 26.

    maya

    November 13, 2012 at 5:32 pm

    The US Postal Service could use this lesson in e-mail fail to promote old-fashioned pen-palling as a better security issue. Expedited deliveries for a few $$$s more.

  27. 27.

    LanceThruster

    November 13, 2012 at 5:36 pm

    @maya:

    The US Postal Service could use this lesson in e-mail fail to promote old-fashioned pen-palling as a better security issue.

    I was pretty young when I first learned how to steam open an envelope. And how often are spooks worried about federal laws on the penalties for violating the sanctity of the US mail?

  28. 28.

    Jay in Oregon

    November 13, 2012 at 5:36 pm

    It was 30,000 pages of emails; but when you remove all the repeated email threads (you know, at the bottom), and when you delete headers, email signatures and lolcats, and then divide by two and carry the one, it’s only, like, three emails.
    __
    Four, tops.

    This is one of the best things I’ve read all day.

  29. 29.

    Robin G.

    November 13, 2012 at 5:41 pm

    @EconWatcher: Fair point, but Lewinsky was before everyone had extensive email and social network shadows that followed them everywhere (the affair was in 1995). The chances of getting caught at stuff these days are much higher, which makes engaging in them a greater indication of stupidity, IMO.

  30. 30.

    SatanicPanic

    November 13, 2012 at 5:46 pm

    @Bill E Pilgrim: Interesting, are you suggesting this is a problem?

  31. 31.

    Mouse Tolliver

    November 13, 2012 at 5:47 pm

    Jill Kelley is an incredibly unfortunate name given the nature of ths story.

  32. 32.

    Yutsano

    November 13, 2012 at 5:48 pm

    @Bill E Pilgrim: We is occasionally kind folk like that.

  33. 33.

    Suffern ACE

    November 13, 2012 at 5:52 pm

    @EconWatcher: Except that he wasn’t actually Cuckholded, unless by that we mean, some guy sent a shirtless picture to his wife. Unless I’m missing something here. Did something break in the story in the eight hours I was actually working today to change that?

    The folks I feel sorry for actually were the kids attending the Kelley’s daughter’s birthday party which was suddenly besieged and crashed by panty-sniffing reporters. There is no way those reporters are appropriate to have around children. They probably should make them wear those bands so we know when they are more than 500 feet from playgrounds.

  34. 34.

    Seanly

    November 13, 2012 at 5:57 pm

    I thought we wasted a lot of paper in the consulting engineer industry…

    I suppose if I opened up one of my Outlook folders & printed all the emails for a big project I could probably beat 30k pages. All of those 8 or 9 emails in a thread.

    This whole thing is very strange. Was either of the Kelley’s in the military? Seems kinda wierd to be throwing lots of parties for nearby brass if you’re not part of the group.

    That said, I did know a woman who worked at the Mechanicsburg Naval Depot as a social coordinator so I thought originally that this Kelley lady was the same kinda thing.

  35. 35.

    Jay in Oregon

    November 13, 2012 at 5:58 pm

    @Suffern ACE:

    The folks I feel sorry for actually were the kids attending the Kelley’s daughter’s birthday party which was suddenly besieged and crashed by panty-sniffing reporters.

    I’d be breaking crap over reporters’ heads until they got the hell out. WTF.

    And I think you mean “within 500 feet”?

  36. 36.

    Mandalay

    November 13, 2012 at 5:59 pm

    @Robin G.:

    These people all strike me as too stupid to be trusted in positions of power.

    This. At least for Petraeus.

    Forget about morality, ethics, the families, the impact on his professional conduct, the duration of the affair, the potential for security breaches and blackmail, etc.

    The very fact that the Director of the CIA was dumb enough to have an affair and document it in emails automatically disqualifies him from the job he held.

    Petraeus was just too stupid for that position.

  37. 37.

    Keith G

    November 13, 2012 at 6:00 pm

    @Tone In DC: Yeah Dave, how dare you voice a differing opinion – that’s not why god invented the net.

  38. 38.

    pagodat

    November 13, 2012 at 6:12 pm

    All the more reason to wish there were clearer limits on which emails to search through, so Jill Kelley feeling threatened by one emailer didn’t translate to some FBI creep having carte blanche to go on a fishing expedition through her entire email history looking for more people’s lives to ruin.

  39. 39.

    SatanicPanic

    November 13, 2012 at 6:13 pm

    @Mandalay: Seriously, this is looking like high-schooler stuff. Next we’ll find the notes they passed each other in class. Do you like me Y/N?

  40. 40.

    Keith G

    November 13, 2012 at 6:14 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    This whole scenario has me reeling.

    I can’t imagine that there are many things that do that.

    My hope is that the Russian Doll aspect of this tale, allows cover for Obama to quietly meet and make progress with what few serious and sane legislators he can find and develop a strategy for dealing with the so-called “fiscal cliff”.

  41. 41.

    Chris

    November 13, 2012 at 6:16 pm

    @Mandalay:

    The very fact that the Director of the CIA was dumb enough to have an affair and document it in emails automatically disqualifies him from the job he held.

    A wingnut I don’t agree with very much most of the time sent me an article this morning that said “Petraeus shouldn’t be fired because he had sex, he should be fired because we can’t have a CIA director dumb enough to think Gmail is a secure system.”

    When she’s right, she’s right.

  42. 42.

    aimai

    November 13, 2012 at 6:27 pm

    @Culture of Truth:

    Is that true? Because the first thing I though tof when reading the beginning reports about Ms. Kelley was the Salahis–that weird on th emake couple who waltzed into the white house uninvited?

    aimai

  43. 43.

    El Cid

    November 13, 2012 at 6:30 pm

    Supposedly this technique of not mailing an e-mail but saving it as a draft in Gmail and then the other party logging in, reading, editing, or saving new draft, was learned by monitoring the electronic communications of Al Qa’ida and other terrorist organizations.

    So, I guess, our intelligence agencies do really learn a lot from monitoring their electronic communications.

  44. 44.

    El Cid

    November 13, 2012 at 6:31 pm

    @Corner Stone: BUT YOU WILL ADMIT THAT THE SURGE IS WORKING. YOU MUST ADMIT THAT THE SURGE IS WORKING.

  45. 45.

    Chris Grrr™

    November 13, 2012 at 6:34 pm

    I have been internetting since before there was a WWW, and don’t recall ever seeing the words “sideways buttcones” next to each other before.

  46. 46.

    Herbal Infusion Bagger

    November 13, 2012 at 6:54 pm

    @Culture of Truth:

    While they were throwing glamorous parties, the Kelleys racked up substantial debt, prompting banks to initiate foreclosure proceedings on two properties and other creditors to sue them for tens of thousands in credit card debt.

    This is Florida, right? I thought anybody who’s anybody in Florida has a foreclosure pending.

    Anyway, back to talking about how Kelley and Broadwell are slutty sluts of extreme sluttiness, because it’s vital to our nation.

    Sometimes life imitates art, and sometimes it imitates a “Desperate Housewives” episode.

  47. 47.

    bjacques

    November 13, 2012 at 7:03 pm

    Shades of Col. Ollie North thinking deleted emails in PROFS stayed gone…

  48. 48.

    Herbal Infusion Bagger

    November 13, 2012 at 7:04 pm

    @Chris:

    The very fact that the Director of the CIA was dumb enough to have an affair and document it in emails automatically disqualifies him from the job he held.

    As I read it, it was a bit more careful than that: they didn’t actually send the emails to each other – they saved them as drafts and then logged into each other’s account to read them. So the emails didn’t actually leave Google’s servers. Also, while a spouse might peek into an inbox, it’s less likely they’d poke around in the drafts folder.

  49. 49.

    Herbal Infusion Bagger

    November 13, 2012 at 7:08 pm

    @Keith G:

    My hope is that the Russian Doll aspect of this tale, allows cover for Obama to quietly meet and make progress with what few serious and sane legislators he can find and develop a strategy for dealing with the so-called “fiscal cliff”.

    Yep. If the press wasn’t slavering over teh CIA sexytime, then they’d be mindlessly yapping about “oh noes teh fiscal cliff!!!!” and about how compromise is needed in Washington by Obama agreeing to everything McConnell, Cantor, and the Orange Speaker want.

    As it is, this occupies news cycles until the Bush tax cuts expire, and then Obama can hammer out a deal where the wingnuts don’t have to vote for a tax increase.

  50. 50.

    ABL

    November 13, 2012 at 7:16 pm

    @Corner Stone: Irony will be survived by its cousin Sarcasm, the understanding of which seems to be lacking in this thread.

  51. 51.

    Corner Stone

    November 13, 2012 at 8:24 pm

    @ABL: I think we all get you. If you get my meaning.

  52. 52.

    Corner Stone

    November 13, 2012 at 8:27 pm

    @El Cid: I would do any thing for love. But I won’t do that.

  53. 53.

    teabow

    November 13, 2012 at 8:52 pm

    are you sayin’ that pat robertson is still livin’?

  54. 54.

    Djur

    November 13, 2012 at 8:58 pm

    Considering how many people were going “omg how do you send 30,000 emails how could he have any time to actually do his job”, I think it’s a reasonable clarification.

    And yes, as someone who used to have a job scanning the shit-tons of documents lawyers work with, the way this stuff is printed is usually extremely redundant.

    Actually, many of the documents I would scan and OCR were photocopies of printed out versions of electronic documents or emails. That means that someone took nice, perfect fidelity digital content, printed it, copied it two or three times, let it fall down a flight of stairs or rot in a dank warehouse for a few years, and then eventually I got to restore it to a much less accurate digital version.

    I scanned documents for a case where this company apparently routinely printed out a growing collection of reports and invoices every week for the CEO’s review, and I guess they just appended the new week’s data and printed the whole thing every week. So I’d see documents A, B, and C. Then I’d see A, B, C, D, E. Then A, B, C, D, E, F. By the end, I’d probably scanned document A over 100 times — and it was around 5 pages. It doesn’t surprise me at all that you’d end up with tens of thousands of pages from rooting through some dude’s email.

    ETA: Also, do we have any actual evidence Jill Kelley was boinking any of these generals? Because I’ve seen suggestions of that everywhere but no actual evidence.

  55. 55.

    Pococurante

    November 13, 2012 at 9:01 pm

    Let’s just get on with the slut-shaming, shall we? That’s always a good time.

    Because only men are responsible for the tango?

    He lost everything because he was a dick to the nation and his family.

    She’ll get a book and royalties. Because she was a dick to the nation and his family.

    Want to try that again?

Comments are closed.

Primary Sidebar

Guest Posts: Priorities

Kakistocracy
I believe In My Fellow Americans
Defeat Them
Turning Bystanders Into Activists
UFOs and Officers
First Up, COVID
Idiots and Maniacs
Our National Illness
Libraries
You Have One Job

Do Something!

Call Your Senators & Representatives
Directory of US Senators
Directory of US Representatives
Letter to Elected Officials – Albatrossity
Letter to Elected Officials – Martin

I Got the Shot!

🎈Ways to Support Our Site

Become a Balloon Juice Patreon
Donate with Venmo, Zelle or PayPal
Shop Amazon via this link to support Balloon Juice ⬇  

Recent Comments

  • satby on Sunday Morning Garden Chat: Hydroponics for Winter Cheer (Jan 24, 2021 @ 6:50am)
  • Amir Khalid on COVID-19 Coronavirus Updates: Saturday/Sunday, Jan. 23-24 (Jan 24, 2021 @ 6:45am)
  • Amir Khalid on COVID-19 Coronavirus Updates: Saturday/Sunday, Jan. 23-24 (Jan 24, 2021 @ 6:29am)
  • wvng on COVID-19 Coronavirus Updates: Saturday/Sunday, Jan. 23-24 (Jan 24, 2021 @ 6:23am)
  • NeenerNeener on COVID-19 Coronavirus Updates: Saturday/Sunday, Jan. 23-24 (Jan 24, 2021 @ 6:22am)

Team Claire, and Family

Help for David’s Niece Claire
Claire Updates
Claire update for the holidays 12/23

Balloon Juice Posts

View by Topic
View by Author
View by Month & Year

Featuring

John Cole
Silverman on Security
COVID-19 Coronavirus
Medium Cool with BGinCHI
Information Is Power

Calling All Jackals

Site Feedback
Submit Photos to On the Road
Nominate a Rotating Tag
Meetups: Proof of Life
2021 Pets of Balloon Juice Calendar

Culture: Books, Film, TV, Music, Games, Podcasts

Noir: Favorites in Film, Books, TV
Book Recommendations & Indy Recs
Mystery Recommendations
Medium Cool: What If (Books & Films)
Netflix Favorites
Amazon Prime Favorites
Netflix Suggestions in July
Fun Music Thread
Longmire & Netflix Suggestions
Medium Cool: Places!
Medium Cool: Games!
Medium Cool: Watch or Read Again

Twitter

John Cole’s Twitter

[custom-twitter-feeds]

Site Footer

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

  • Facebook
  • RSS
  • Twitter
  • Comment Policy
  • Our Authors
  • Blogroll
  • Our Artists
  • Privacy Policy

Copyright © 2021 Dev Balloon Juice · All Rights Reserved · Powered by BizBudding Inc

Share this ArticleLike this article? Email it to a friend!

Email sent!