There’s a party in my mind

This is as true today as when Atrios tweeted it in 2010.

“Right-center” is perfect of course, because the “right” part punches hippies, and the “center” part proclaims the majesty of independent centrist nonpartisan moderates like Evan Bayh and Joe Lieberman.

Ah, the vital center!

Of course, in reality, we have one centrist corporatist party and one far-right even-more-corporatist in this country. Moreover, the centrist corporatist party tends to run the federal government reasonably competently, whereas the far-right even-more-corporatist party does not.

Anyone with half a brain has known this for quite some time. I understand that it was possible to imagine that the Republican party wasn’t just a right-wing confederacy of dunces when Bush I was president, but that was twenty years ago now.

It doesn’t matter, though, official Washington still contends that we need a new centrist corporatist party to split the far left Che Democratic party and the slightly-too-far-right GOP daddies.

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170 replies
  1. 1
    LD50 says:

    Spatula calls this a ‘center-right blog’, so it must be true!

  2. 2
    Schlemizel says:

    @LD50: last I check a spatula is still a tool. Nothing here makes the definition change

  3. 3
    Scott S. says:

    Bah. Spatula is a Republican troll trying to depress voter turnout.

  4. 4
    Speculum Spatula says:

    Totes a center-right blog!

    Glad you people are finally admitting it to yourselves.

  5. 5
    Chris says:

    Of course, in reality, we have one centrist corporatist party and one far-right even-more-corporatist in this country. Moreover, the centrist corporatist party tends to run the federal government reasonably competently, whereas the far-right even-more-corporatist party does not.

    The civil war between Rockefeller and Goldwater Republicans has engulfed the entire spectrum, except Goldwater would be considered some kind of communist by the current Teahadis.

  6. 6
    mikefromArlington says:

    Sheesh, elections not over and already back to bashing Democrats.

  7. 7
    AA+ Bonds says:

    @LD50:

    Spatula calls this a ‘center-right blog’, so it must be true!

    I’d grant that this blog is to the left of the Democrats now

  8. 8
    Speculum Spatula says:

    @Scott S.:

    Spatula is a Republican troll trying to depress voter turnout.

    Uh huh…tell us more about that. Do most republican trolls hang out at the same blog for going on eight years?

    Seeing as how FEWER than half of eligible voters in this country are expected to participate in this faux election, it would be hard to depress the vote further than the last four years have already.

    Let me ask you, genius: Do you think PBO’s actual performance in office has ANYTHING at all to do with the fact that he’s in a squeaker against another center-right corporatist who has the distinction of being bland? Or is it ONLY racism, the republicans, and the fact that we are too blind to see his perfection thru his imperfection?

  9. 9
    TaMara (BHF) says:

    Any chance of Rick Scott getting impeached anytime soon? Florida gets what it deserves for electing the crook, but still, this is criminal.

    I hope this backfires and FL swings wide to blue because the Dems were more committed to sticking the wait times out.

    I no more want Mitt Romney to win than I would want to stick needles in my eyes, but I would NEVER restrict anyone’s voting rights, ever. Fucking rethugs need to get beat down hard Tuesday.

  10. 10
    AA+ Bonds says:

    I mean, globally, the “center” is somewhere around the Muslim Brotherhood (compare them to the Democrats on capitalism, for instance)

  11. 11
    taylormattd says:

    Ikr?

    That Nancy Pelosi is such a corporate whore.

  12. 12
    28 Percent says:

    Since the only viable parties we have are center-corporatist vs far-right nationalist/corporatist, it’s difficult to imagine what descriptor would be more accurate than “center-right”. Have you any suggestions?

  13. 13
    LD50 says:

    @Schlemizel: Oh come on, Cole loves his black velvet paintings of celebrities!

  14. 14
    mclaren says:

    Calling a president like Obama who murders U.S. citizens without even charging them with a crime and orders the mass murder of innocent Red Cross workers in other countries and who signs off on extending the Bush tax cuts and who has prosecuted more whistleblowers than all previous presidents combined, a “centrist” is about like calling Pol Pot a “centrist” or Stalin a “centrist.”

    And, yes, ordering the murder of your own citizens without even accusing them of having committed a crime is the kind of thing Pol Pot and Stalin did.

    Barack Obama isn’t another Pol Pot or Stalin because he hasn’t murdered millions of people. He now has the lawless and unconstitutional power to do that, though.

    Obots have been obediently whimpering about “what we’ll face on Tuesday if Romney gets elected.”

    How about waking the fuck up and starting to tremble with fear and loathing at what you’ll face on Tuesday if Obama gets re-elected?

    [*] The War on Terror becomes permanent, creating a garrison police state with de facto martial law. Any time you refuse to show your papers to the polizei, you get beaten and tased and pepper-sprayed and chokeheld while a K-9 police dog savages your genitals.

    [*] The War on Drugs ramps up. Obama refuses to prosecute the Bush torturers, but he’ll eagerly send Eric Holder’s muggers with badges to beat and tase and handcuff dying cancer patients in wheel chairs for the pseudocrime of buying a joint at a state marijuana dispensary.

    [*] The insane uneforceable unwinnable War on Copyright continues — now with new and improved insanity, including making it a crime to the use the FAST FORWARD button on your TV set-top DVR and making it a crime to re-sell books or DVDs or music CDs you already own. Don’t look for help from the Obama administration — Obama has filled his administration with former RIAA lawyers. Obama even pointed an RIAA lobbyist as the Solicitor General.

    [*] More endless unwinnable wars in foreign countries. Coming soon: an attack on Iran!

    [*] A bigger more sadistic more unworkable military-police-surveillance-prison-torture complex. Watch for riot-armored police to smash in the doors of high school classrooms and bash high school girls in the face with their rifle butts and drag them out in a 500-yard-long blood trail for the pseudocrime of jailbreaking their iPhones.

    [*] More warrantless wiretapping. Every email you ever sent, now stored on hard drivers in a giant data storage center in Nevada. NSA whistleblower William Binney says “the NSA now has a dossier on almost every American.” Coming soon: lots of new federal jobs hiring snoops who will pore over every one of your emails and tweets and instant messages and phone calls for possible signs of “criminal activity.”

    [*] When the fiscal cliff hits, watch Obama gut social security and medicare while ramping up U.S. military spending all in the name of a so-called “grand bargain.” His corporate puppet masters will shower Obama with honors and riches for delivering the final death blow to America’s safety net.

    DougJ gazed up at the enormous face. Four years it had taken him to learn what kind of smile was hidden beneath the dark visage. O cruel, needless, misunderstanding! O stubborn, self-willed exile from the loving breast! Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Barack Obama.

  15. 15
    Alexandra says:

    Talking Heads. Nice.

  16. 16
    Gravenstone says:

    /golf clap

    Nice job guys, mention is three times and you fucking summon it on cue. Fortunately, it remains monomaniacally focused on pies.

  17. 17
    FlipYrWhig says:

    I think it’s a mistake to try to assign a single ideology to the Democratic Party. There are certainly center-right “corporatists” — whatever that means; I’ll take it to mean pro-business rather than pro-labor — with a lot of power and influence in the party. There are also bleeding-hearts and champions of minority rights. Then there are labor stalwarts. They converge around technocratic and good-government stuff, like effective management of scarce resources, and have an uneasy truce around matters of economic justice.

    Lately, they (happily) have started to converge around race, gender, and sexuality — mostly because a lot of working-class white people started to migrate to the other party, so the Democrats no longer need to bend over backwards to accommodate the preferences of racist populists. Like, it must be said, LBJ and FDR did.

  18. 18
    taylormattd says:

    @mikefromArlington: It’s sloppy and stupid.

    But apparently everyone has to pull a Sister Souljah every once in a while.

    Otherwise Glenn Greenwald or Joan Walsh might ignore you at the next blogger meetup or something.

  19. 19
    Speculum Spatula says:

    @LD50:

    Oh come on, Cole loves his black velvet paintings of celebrities!

    You know…I haven’t done that yet, but I’d be happy to paint on velvet for you, DougJ!

  20. 20
    Laura says:

    @mclaren: I’m pretty sure my genitals will be fine. Yours seem to have grown out of your brain, however, making you a dickhead.

  21. 21
    Amanda in the South Bay says:

    Anyone with half a brain has known this for quite some time. I understand that it was possible to imagine that the Republican party wasn’t just a right-wing confederacy of dunces when Bush I was president,

    Emphasis on confederacy.

  22. 22
    dmsilev says:

    Christ, all we need is the paid Romney representative and we’ll hit the annoying-poster trifecta.

  23. 23
    taylormattd says:

    @mclaren:

    Obama who murders U.S. citizens without even charging them

    That right there is proof you are just as stupid and delusional Glenn Beck.

  24. 24
    LD50 says:

    @mclaren: TL; DR

  25. 25
    taylormattd says:

    @Gravenstone: Doug *has* to be doing this on purpose.

  26. 26
    JPL says:

    @mclaren: Really…Really… our health policy has been killing people for years and now we have a candidate that wants to rid the country of medicare.
    Drones are not good things but neither is invading other countries.
    Hopefully on Wednesday we don’t have to see how many people die in our country and also abroad because you don’t seem to think there is a choice.

  27. 27
    Baud says:

    Thanks Doug. I appreciate the confidence that this post represents.

  28. 28
    scav says:

    Given the number of trolls already on this thread, I’m beginning to read a little more into Doug J’s title.

  29. 29
    taylormattd says:

    @JPL: Don’t bother, he’s either a fucking nutcase or dumber than a sack of hammers.

  30. 30
    Chris says:

    @AA+ Bonds:

    I mean, globally, the “center” is somewhere around the Muslim Brotherhood (compare them to the Democrats on capitalism, for instance)

    If you took a global vote, I suspect left-wing views on social issues and right-wing views on economics would both be absolutely fucking buried. They’d both reemerge in time, but it’d take a bit of time.

  31. 31
    J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford says:

    Just two more days. Just two more days.

  32. 32
    Anne Laurie says:

    @Speculum Spatula:

    Totes a center-right blog!

    Be fair. Cole grew up (from his own reports) in a hardcore Republican Germanic-heritage university-based family in West Virginia. That’s a lot of authoritarianism for one mind to overcome. It speaks well for him that his first front-page “hire” was TimF, Unabased Liberal, and that he’s made every effort to add more voices from all parts of the blog-available spectrum.

    IMO, the fact that some of us on the non-authoritarian end of the spectrum tend to come across as hair-on-fire cartoon characters rather than independent minds in action is predictable, because Cole is simply less experienced outside the Republican tribal councils. (Also, remember, some of us are spoofs, or at least willing to play that role for attention.)

    On the other hand, there is no possible explanation for Erick Kain, outside of bribery/deliberate deception…

  33. 33
    FlipYrWhig says:

    Rethinking my last a bit… it seems to me that pro-business and bleeding-heart segments can often converge on things like race/gender/sexuality and even the environment: if it’s good for business, let humanity and toleration bloom. But it seems to me that trying to get more populist economics into the mix is a bit like squeezing a balloon, essentially because the working-class white people who might respond to the populist message are not always so keen on race/gender/sexuality or, say, civil liberties for suspected terrorists. So you’d get a few more in, but a few more would leave.

    I know a lot of people think the Democratic party swung right (from some baseline that may never have existed in actuality) because that’s where the money was, but I think it’s because that’s where the votes are in the vast majority of states.

  34. 34
    JPL says:

    @taylormattd: I’m breathing now. Initially I was going to say gfys. You are definitely right btw.

  35. 35
    aimai says:

    I was just notified that people are being robocalled with a fake date for the election here in MA (of all places). Can’t the republicans give it a rest, even once, for one election cycle in a supposedly safe blue state? They really want this senate seat.

    aimai

  36. 36
    taylormattd says:

    @Anne Laurie: 99% of us are on the “non-authoritarian” side of the spectrum, no matter how many times the troll to whom you are speaking, or you for that matter, attempts to take the mantle for himself.

  37. 37
    General Stuck says:

    I think people get confused as to the pre Southern Strategy status quo that had a genuine mix of characters all over the ideological spectrum in both parties, with the 60’s taking prominence, simply because there were so much puritan ethic running the mores that a breakout was needed.

    So it gave the impression of the dem party as a far left free love party that was stuck in time as the SS shift marched on toward parties being more ideologically harmonious within, that was kicked off by the CRA, VRA, etc… where southern racist former dems became republican, and fiscal conservative socially liberal republicans became independent, moderate repubs or John Cole.

    And even with the country turning right in 1980 from the trauma of a lot of progressive change in a short period of time. Liberal progressive values have mostly continued evolving into the national identity. We still have some biggies to go, like gay marriage, certain areas of women’s rights and just a more affirmative attitude toward minorities in general. BUT WE ARE A MUCH MORE LIBERAL COUNTRY THAN BEFORE AND DURING THE 60’S AND 70’S, on up to today. Except for economic class.

    The democratic party just appears more conservative, cause it is that on fiscal responsibility, thank goodness. And the fact that the causes of yore have been fought and conquered, with only skirmishes needed to maintain those victories.

    We do have a great big biggie to tackle now, and that is the matter of class, economic class, and the wingnuts will not give that one up easily, or maybe at all if they get real stubborn and take their ball and go home to dixie.

  38. 38
    Davis X. Machina says:

    @TaMara (BHF): None. FL has veto-proof GOP majorities in both houses, and not all states have the mechanism.

  39. 39
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @taylormattd: Don’t overlook the putative “non-authoritarians” who nonetheless long for a political leader who smashes all opposition by force of sheer will.

  40. 40
    Speculum Spatula says:

    @taylormattd:

    99% of us are on the “non-authoritarian” side of the spectrum

    Which is, of course, why you support PBO, who has prosecuted more whistle blowers than all other previous presidents combined. Nothing to see here.

  41. 41
    AkaDad says:

    @Laura:

    I usually ignore personal insults, but that one made me lol.

  42. 42
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    @mclaren:

    Are you telling me that DougJ has sworn off boobs? Do tell!

  43. 43
    taylormattd says:

    @Speculum Spatula: No, it’s because unlike you, troll, I’m not a simpering half-wit, and I realize who the republicans are.

  44. 44
    taylormattd says:

    @FlipYrWhig: BULLYPULPIT SMASH!!

    Edit: President Jill Stein EVISCERATES conservative Senators with her bullypulpit, and now we have MEDICARE FOR ALL!

  45. 45
    scav says:

    @taylormattd: There really should be a varient of the authoritarian description formthose that garb themselves in the balm, the sceptre and the mantle of ultimate self-proclaimed authority of all true whateveritis-ism.

  46. 46
    A Humble Lurker says:

    @Speculum Spatula:
    Desperate ones with nothing else going on, I would imagine. Oh, hey!

  47. 47
    Davis X. Machina says:

    @General Stuck:

    We do have a great big biggie to tackle now, and that is the matter of class, economic class….

    That will have to wait till the Civil War is over.

  48. 48
    Baud says:

    When you only have two major parties because of first past the post voting, labeling them as anything other than left and right makes no sense whatsoever.

  49. 49
    Chyron HR says:

    @Speculum Spatula:

    Do most republican trolls hang out at the same blog for going on eight years?

    That’s an interesting question. When that one guy who shows up every night to scream about PRESIDENT-ELECT ROMNEY arrives, you should ask him how long he’s been at it. Not 8 years, surely, but I don’t see him stopping anytime soon.

  50. 50
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @General Stuck: I agree with you in broad strokes: essentially, working-class racists slowly shifted from Democrat to Republican, so the median white Democrat is now less populist or pro-labor than he used to be, but more tolerant towards people of different ethnicities and non-normative sexualities. More architects, fewer pipefitters.

  51. 51
    Davis X. Machina says:

    @taylormattd: Left authoritarians aren’t all that rare…. especially considering how rare an actual leftist is in this country. They made DemocraticUnderground.com basically a swamp.

  52. 52
    Speculum Spatula says:

    @taylormattd:

    Oh noze, the unself aware simpering half-wit called me a TROLL…oh noze, I must now end it all.

    Or not…hey what the hell does “I realize who the repubicans are” mean to you?

    Is that similar in meaning to “I see dead people?”

  53. 53

    Have you guys seen this shit?

    http://2012.talkingpointsmemo......-obama.php

    Linda McMahon tells people to vote for Obama! Holeeeee Shit!

  54. 54
    Davis X. Machina says:

    @Baud: In Europe you establish a party, fight elections, and then form the coalition.

    Here we form the coalition, then fight the election, and then establish the party.

  55. 55
    Chris says:

    @General Stuck:

    Liberal progressive values have mostly continued evolving into the national identity.

    I think it’s remarkable the extent to which people loathe the sixties and the DFHs associated with it compared with the extent to which they agree with them on everything. If you took a poll today, I’m pretty sure people who wanted to bring back segregation, fifteenth-century sexual morals, or the draft would all be in a very definite minority. But God forbid we actually make the link between that and the Sixties/New Left that made these things go away.

  56. 56
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Davis X. Machina: There are at least as many Actual Leftists as there are Actual Hipsters. It’s easy to spot the poseurs. It’s basically anyone who grew the mustache after you did.

  57. 57
    mclaren says:

    @taylormattd:

    That right there is proof you are just as stupid and delusional [as] Glenn Beck.

    Of course. I’m “stupid” and “delusional” because I’m stating the documented fact that Barack Obama has ordered the murder of U.S. citizens without even charging them with a crime.

    And when The Guardian points out that Obama’s murder of U.S. citizen Anwar Al-Awlaki creates a “terrifying precedent,” why, that’s just another example of a “stupid” and “delusional” hallucination.

    Anwar al-Awlaki’s extrajudicial murder: The law on the use of lethal force by executive order is specific. This assassination broke it – that creates a terrifying precedent.

    Source: The Guardian, 30 September 2011.

    And when Berekely professor Brad de Long writes:

    Social Studies 50th Anniversary Symposium: Is There Hope for the Rule of Law in America?

    That was the question asked by Denver University Professor Alan Gilbert during the morning panel.

    Here is the answer I gave, as best as I can reconstruct it:

    The question is: “Is there hope for the rule of law in America?” My answer is: No. (..)

    By 2001 with a Republican as president John Yoo…was then claiming that the president’s commander-in-chief powers contained within them prerogative powers to torture and kill outside of legal procedure that would have astonished George III Hanover, and even exceeded those of William I Conqueror. When William I Conqueror tortured or killed, he agreed owed his barons at least an after-the-fact accounting of why if not any before-the-fact procedural checks.

    Backed by John Yoo and company, George W. Bush claimed that he did not owe even an after-the-fact accounting. And Barack Obama holds to the same line.

    So I see no hope.

    Source: Brad deLong’s blog “Is there hope for the rule of law?” 26 September 2010.

    Of course we know the answer to that. Brad deLong is “stupid” and “delusional.” He’s hearing voices. He’s living in a weird fantasy world and all the newspapers and the TV reports are completely wrong. Obama isn’t ordering the murder of U.S. citizens, anyone who believes that is just “delusional.” Including all the reporters who have reported it, all the professors of constitutional law who have condemned it, all the ACLU lawyers who went to court to try to stop it. All delusional. Armies of lawyers and professors and reporters, all hallucinating.

    And when the New York Times reports on Obama’s `secret kill list,’ we know why:

    This was the enemy, served up in the latest chart from the intelligence agencies: 15 Qaeda suspects in Yemen with Western ties. The mug shots and brief biographies resembled a high school yearbook layout. Several were Americans. Two were teenagers, including a girl who looked even younger than her 17 years. (..)

    “How old are these people?” he asked, according to two officials present. “If they are starting to use children,” he said of Al Qaeda, “we are moving into a whole different phase.”

    Source: “Secret ‘Kill List’ Proves a Test of Obama’s Principles and Will,” The New York Times, 29 May 2012.

    We know why the New York Times reports things like this: the editors and reporters at the New York Times are “stupid” and “delusional.” They’re hearing voices. They’re hallucinating. None of this is actually happening.

    Continue the denial, Obots. Keep sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting I CAN’T HEAR YOU, NANANANANA!

    Two or three president after Obama, when the death squads start going house to house and dragging citizens out and kneeling them on the street and shooting ’em in the head, you can shut off the TV and scream “You’re stupid! You’re delusional! That isn’t happening!”

    …Right up until they knock on your door.

  58. 58
    Davis X. Machina says:

    @FlipYrWhig: I grew mine in ’78. That’s a lot of hipsters….

  59. 59
    mclaren says:

    @LD50:

    The president of the United States has to obey the law.

    LD50: “Too long, didn’t read.”

    The epitaph for democracy in America.

  60. 60
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @mclaren: They should probably just merge the death squads with the death panels, so they can go house to house exterminating both political opponents and the costly infirm. I mean, that’s just good government.

  61. 61
    Darkrose says:

    I just completed my NaNoWriMo novel filled out my CA ballot. As in every election since moving back here, I had a nice long rant session about the utter stupidity of direct democracy as practiced in this great state. If I’m not going to get paid to do the Legislature’s job for them, I really feel like I should at least have the opportunity to make editorial comments on the various ballot measures–for example, voting “HELL FUCKING NO” on 32, with an added “Suck my Koch Brothers, you 1% assholes!” would make me feel marginally better about the fact that bullshit is probably going to pass because most people won’t read or can’t find the fine print.

  62. 62
    BGinCHI says:

    I wonder if mclaren goes to skating rinks and during the part where everyone sings “do the Hokey Pokey…that’s what it’s all about” he screams “NO, that’s NOT what it’s all about, not EVEN CLOSE!”

  63. 63
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Davis X. Machina: Did I say it backwards? I meant that the baseline is always you. You’re always the last cool one, and anyone after that is a johnny-come-lately ruining the scene. So the real hipsters, strictly speaking, would be people who had mustaches since the day before you grew yours in 1978, and yours would be the last authentically hipster-leftist badge of honor.

  64. 64
    eemom says:

    Cole grew up (from his own reports) in a hardcore Republican Germanic-heritage university-based family in West Virginia. That’s a lot of authoritarianism for one mind to overcome. It speaks well for him that his first front-page “hire” was TimF, Unabased Liberal, and that he’s made every effort to add more voices from all parts of the blog-available spectrum.

    This is fucking hilarious.
    John Cole as affirmative action baby.
    A credit to a mind narrowed through no fault of its own. Overcome horrific non-disadvantage to master the art of independent thought at age 35+.
    Let’s name a Special Olympics after him.

  65. 65
    General Stuck says:

    @Chris:

    I think it’s remarkable the extent to which people loathe the sixties and the DFHs associated with it compared with the extent to which they agree with them on everything.

    It was a genuine social rebellion/revolution, and the causes were mostly righteous. We just kinda overdid stuff to make our point, and to express real rage that the machine was killing our friends in a far away jungle in large numbers for no good reason. Youthful Excesses were excessive and the weed cheap.

  66. 66
    Riilism says:

    …Right up until they knock on your door.

    We’ve been waiting for you……
    Where the kisses are hers and hers and his,
    Three’s company too.

  67. 67
    arguingwithsignposts says:

    So am I to expect the next three days to be a constant parade of trolling the firebaggers, punctuated by brief spurts of UNLIMITED PREZNIDENT ROMNEY!?

    Okay then. Carry on.

  68. 68
    Keith G says:

    It does seem that aggregate voting behavior indicates a whole bunch o’ folks in the center, many of whom have no problems with conservative-leaning policies. To deny this seems foolish.

    It’s likely that very many of the non-voting citizens now-a-days tend to be a bit left of the center post and if they ever regularly showed up, we might rightfully be called a center left society. But they don’t.

  69. 69
  70. 70
    General Stuck says:

    @BGinCHI:

    I wonder if mclaren goes to skating rinks and during the part where everyone sings “do the Hokey Pokey

    No. But he does go down to the bog to warm his feet.

  71. 71
    Bostondreams says:

    @mclaren:

    You say all this as if it is new and unusual in our history. For God’s sake, Hamilton and others suppressed resistance in Pennsylvania through brute force and extra-legal trials and executions. It is nothing new, and you act as though this is some shocking development.
    And who is Brad DeLong voting for, anyway?

  72. 72
    RossInDetroit, Rational Subjectivist says:

    Have they evacuated the culverts under all of the bridges because of the flooding? It’s troll-riffic around here.

  73. 73
    Sm*t Cl*de says:

    And when The Guardian points out that Obama’s murder of U.S. citizen Anwar Al-Awlaki creates a “terrifying precedent,” why, that’s just another example of a “stupid” and “delusional” hallucination.

    It is less than honest to cite a political blogger given a voice through the Guardian’s ‘Commentisfree’ section as if the words were the paper’s reportage or editorial stance.

  74. 74
    LD50 says:

    @eemom: if you hate Cole so much, may I ask why you bother to spend time here?

    I mean, you don’t seem to have that element of craven ego-stroking as Spatula and no one’s paying you 50 cents a post like Political Whateverthefuckhescallednow…

  75. 75
    Chris says:

    @General Stuck:

    It was a genuine social rebellion/revolution, and the causes were mostly righteous.

    Yeah, I’m getting that. And as for “overdoing it,” I don’t see anything the New Lefties did that was even a fraction as bad as their opponents. Segregationists lynching and beating civil rights activists, cops and National Guardsmen shooting protestors, Hoover’s FBI violating virtually every amendment in the Bill of Rights as a routine matter.

    Yeah, I agree that the Weather Underground belonged in jail, but so did all of these pricks, and unlike the Weather Underground, very few of them ended there.

  76. 76
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Keith G: You will never get some people to stop believing that The Left is a silent majority that doesn’t vote because they’re too dispirited by how conservative everyone else is content to be. And if only someone would speak to them, we’d have a progressive utopia forever, but no one ever tries, because it’s all corporate, man.

  77. 77
    LD50 says:

    @Chris:

    Yeah, I’m getting that. And as for “overdoing it,” I don’t see anything the New Lefties did that was even a fraction as bad as their opponents. Segregationists lynching and beating civil rights activists, cops and National Guardsmen shooting protestors, Hoover’s FBI violating virtually every amendment in the Bill of Rights as a routine matter.

    Yeah, but there was decades and decades of precedent for that.

  78. 78

    Whoa – people are freezing at a Romney event and the staffers are refusing to let people leave.

    “We’ve got to get out! My daughter is frostbitten,” begs mom, asking to leave Romney rally. Staffer replies: “It’s not cold enuf for that.”

    Man just pulled me aside and said “My son is on the verge of hypothermia” just as staffer starts letting people out a few at a time.

  79. 79
    gwangung says:

    It does seem that aggregate voting behavior indicates a whole bunch o’ folks in the center, many of whom have no problems with conservative-leaning policies.

    Particularly conservative-ish economic policies. And they hold them a bit more strongly than social policies, which are liberal-ish.

  80. 80
    Paul says:

    @mclaren:

    Of course. I’m “stupid” and “delusional” because I’m stating the documented fact that Barack Obama has ordered the murder of U.S. citizens without even charging them with a crime.

    If you feel so strongly about this, why didn’t you do what the tea baggers did so well, ie organize and primary the establishment in your party earlier this year?

    As it is, you are now trying to get Romney elected, a man that will easily kill many more US citizens than Obama ever is accused of. People like you are enabling him. But I guess you don’t care. As long as you have your so called moral superiority. At least in your own mind.

  81. 81
    MikeJ says:

    @arguingwithsignposts:

    So am I to expect the next three days to be a constant parade of trolling the firebaggers,

    Next four years.

  82. 82
    Baud says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt:

    Is it really that cold, or is that just the feeling people get when they get near Mitt Romney?

  83. 83
    General Stuck says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt:

    Wow, that sounds very weird.

  84. 84
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    While Smerconish isn’t my cup of tea, he wrote a thing of beauty here.

  85. 85
    FlyingToaster says:

    @aimai: Seriously???

    Here in [unidentified urban burb of TheHub], I’ve received 4 robocalls. 3 over the past three weeks from Crossroads GPS attacking Elizabeth Warren, to which I curse and hang up.

    1 yesterday from Matt Damon in favor of Elizabeth Warren. To which I refrained from cursing, said “Robocalls REALLY DON’T WORK HERE” and hung up.

    I’m just waiting for the next two days of non-stop robocalling, though. Pfeh.

  86. 86
    Davis X. Machina says:

    @FlipYrWhig: A lot of them, at least in the circles I travel in, are ex-DEC retired Unix wizards, and libertarians to a man, albeit left-libertarian.

  87. 87
    Kane says:

    Haven’t you written this post about a hundred times already?

  88. 88
    Baud says:

    @Kane:

    Haven’t you written this post about a hundred times already?

    It’s still works every time, so why should he stop?

  89. 89
    blingee says:

    I’ll sure be glad when Tuesday evening comes and goes. After that Obama could get caught in a hotel room with a bag of coke and a dead hooker and it won’t matter. He will still be a 2 term president no matter how much the winguts stomp and scream!

    As for my plans, I intend to rub it in as much as possible. I’ve got a list of wingnuts to tweak on twitter. Starting with reminding Ted Nugent he promised us he will die or go to prison if Obama wins.

  90. 90
    smith says:

    I live in NY and I have been seeing Romney commercials all day during the football games. But, hey, if the RNC and/or the Romney campaign want to waste money on ad time in NY, be my guest. That’s less money they’re spending in swing states.

  91. 91
    sharl says:

    FYI, pretty interesting hour-long radio program on our nation’s long, long history of voter suppression and manipulation.
    Why, it’s an American tradition!

    The struggle goes on and on and on…

  92. 92
  93. 93
    Baud says:

    @blingee:

    Exactly. Lame duck = let our freak fly!

  94. 94
    Democrat Partisan Asshole says:

    voting “HELL FUCKING NO” on 32, with an added “Suck my Koch Brothers, you 1% assholes!” would make me feel marginally better about the fact that bullshit is probably going to pass because most people won’t read or can’t find the fine print.

    @Darkrose: Prop 32 down by 16 points – that’s right, 16 – in latest Field poll as of November 2.

    It ain’t passing.

  95. 95
    General Stuck says:

    With complaints streaming in from angry voters, the Florida Democratic Party and the League of Women Voters asked Gov. Rick Scott and state election officials on Thursday to extend early voting. They argued that some voters were leaving without voting because they did not have all day to wait in line. The Monroe County election supervisor, Harry Sawyer, also asked Mr. Scott to use his emergency powers to extend early voting.

    But the governor and state elections officials turned down the request, saying that the process was running smoothly and that the move was unnecessary.

    This is where they get us every national election. Our voters tend to be clustered in high population areas, and all the wingnut governor or legislature has to do is drag their feet on providing infrastructure to handle the large turnouts. Some folks just say fuck it, and go home. I don’t honestly know if I would wait 7 hours in a line to vote. Fortunately, there are plenty of liberal lawyers out there to help out.

  96. 96

    Heh, more Fear of Music refs, never a bad thing. I wish I still had it on vinyl.

    Hold on to that paper
    Hold on to that paper
    Hold on because it’s been taken care of
    Hold on to that paper

    …keep voting, people.

  97. 97
    Baud says:

    @General Stuck:

    Voters standing in long lines just need to click their heels together and incant “There’s no difference between Democrats and Republicans” over and over again.

  98. 98
    Roger Moore says:

    @General Stuck:
    I wasn’t around at the time, but I get the impression that the big issue with the DFHs is pretty well encapsulated by the description; it’s a matter of style much more than one of substance. The DFHs may have been right on the issues, but they rubbed enough people the wrong way that people who actually agree with what they stood for still want to give them the occasional punch.

  99. 99
    1badbaba3 says:

    @LD50: What an august responsibility it must be to write the epitaph for democracy. Stones the size of a small moon, they must be.

    Oh, and outing 3MDougJ in the same thread: Bonus!

  100. 100
    Democrat Partisan Asshole says:

    More news from Cali on the vote to repeal the death penalty – Prop 34 – poll results broken down by religious affiliation:

    While Protestants oppose repealing the death penalty 48% to 30%, a plurality of Catholics are favoring its repeal (47% to 38%). Support for repeal is even stronger among voters affiliated with other non-Christian religions (54%) and among voters with no religious preference (60%).

    Looks like the most pro-life folks are those who’re atheists.

    I’m going to be rubbing this in the faces of the jerks who try to tell me non-believers have no morals for the next twenty years.

  101. 101
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    This is America, we do capitalism here, so I’m not surprised that both major parties are business oriented. I would argue that the two parties are different on this front: One is concerned more with the workers, while the other is more concerned with net profits. Taking into account that there will be some corporatist Democrats (especially if you accept that there are some places that will not elect a liberal Democrat), I would say the Republican party is the truly corporate party. If they could find a way to make you work and then sell your body for parts right before the paycheck, I think they would. The Democrats are at least interested in the welfare of workers.

  102. 102
    Wag says:

    20,000+ for the POTUS’s rally in Denver tonight. So f***ing cool!

  103. 103
    Paul says:

    @General Stuck:

    Some folks just say fuck it, and go home. I don’t honestly know if I would wait 7 hours in a line to vote. Fortunately, there are plenty of liberal lawyers out there to help out.

    For those folks who think America is number 1 and all that, do they really think our election system is #1 in the world? Do they really think in every other democracy people have to wait 7 hrs to cast a fricking vote?

    It is beyond me what a disgrace our election system is. It is 2012 for crying out loud.

  104. 104
    Glyph_2112 says:

    Can someone explain to me what scale we are using? It must be a global scale because if it was just taking into account our nation, wouldn’t center right BE the center? Some how I think the center must be as elusive as the undecided voters.

  105. 105
    PurpleGirl says:

    FYI: Mahablog has a list of states and their polls’ closing time with their EC vote count.

    http://www.mahablog.com/

  106. 106
    Paul says:

    @Democrat Partisan Asshole:

    While Protestants oppose repealing the death penalty 48% to 30%,

    I think these folks also favor getting rid of the “thou shalt not kill commandment” in their bible…

  107. 107
    Baud says:

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent):

    Democrats are focused on the right balance, which pisses of the GOP, which is focused on corporate power, and the left, which is focused on working class power. We don’t have dichotomous political parties in the U.S. (mostly because of social issues), and that is difficult for some people to wrap their heads around.

  108. 108
    Scamp Dog says:

    I like to think that our country has two parties: a conservative party and a radical right-wing nationalist party with a taste for authoritarianism and theocracy. Not being an authoritarian theocrat, I’m a Democrat. Pre Bush II, I thought of myself as a small-c conservative who didn’t like the GOP “Freedom Party” agenda of “let’s amend the constitution to ban abortion and flag burning!”. Based on my idea of freedom, I voted for Democrats. Now I realize that thinking the government should do things like disaster relief, regulating business and protecting the environment makes me a radical leftist hippie of some sort. Whatever.

    I went out and voted early this past Wednesday for the Kenyan muslim socialist, and spent yesterday working at the local OFA office.

  109. 109
    redshirt says:

    Soon there will be mandatory nails in the road to voting.

  110. 110
    Democrat Partisan Asshole says:

    If you feel so strongly about this, why didn’t you do what the tea baggers did so well, ie organize and primary the establishment in your party earlier this year?

    @Paul: Good commentor mcclaren doesn’t live in the United States, nor is a US citizen, which would make any work done on behalf of an American political party a bit difficult.

    And he is one dishonest sonofabitch as well, citing his own comments on a Guardian story as the actual report from the Guardian.

  111. 111
    Roger Moore says:

    @Democrat Partisan Asshole:

    I’m going to be rubbing this in the faces of the jerks who try to tell me non-believers have no morals for the next twenty years.

    And they’ll counter by claiming that the death penalty is divinely ordained, so the religious people backing it are showing they’re more moral than the non-religious people opposing it. See how easy it is?

    ETA: Voting for Prop 34 on Tuesday.

  112. 112
    kay says:

    PublicPolicyPolling ‏@ppppolls
    Barack Obama leads Mitt Romney 52-47 on our final Ohio poll. Up 60-39 with early voters

    So I tell them this at the staging location, thinking it’ll make them happy and productive, and they all start babbling about the “Ohio newspaper poll!” they are anxiously anticipating. I think we already got the Ohio newspaper poll(s). It seems like we did. We got the one and then the other.. I don’t remember. I had to leave. They’re impossible to please.

  113. 113
    Baud says:

    @kay:

    Whatever it takes to keep them motivated. Polls are irrelevant (to me, anyway).

  114. 114
    eemom says:

    @LD50:

    This may come as a shock to you, but there’s more to the place than Cole at this point.

    Hell, even AL picked that one up.

    And just FTR, there are very few commenters here who Cole has been a bigger personal asshole to than me. Road goes both ways, baby.

  115. 115
    Roger Moore says:

    @kay:
    I guess they think they’ll be more motivated and productive if the whole thing is still too close to call and only their heroic effort between now and Tuesday can put us across the line. Whatever works.

  116. 116
    taylormattd says:

    @FlipYrWhig: If 1/10oth of what McTrollen wrote about Obama was true, Obama would have droned McTrollen to death years ago.

  117. 117
    Anne Laurie says:

    @Keith G:

    It’s likely that very many of the non-voting citizens now-a-days tend to be a bit left of the center post and if they ever regularly showed up, we might rightfully be called a center left society. But they don’t.

    Of course, if they did, they cheerleading squads are squared up and ready to scream traitorfirebaggeremoDIAF at them…

  118. 118
    kay says:

    @Roger Moore:

    “It doesn’t matter unless he’s at 50” That’s the mantra.

    So. 52! What do they want from him :)

  119. 119
    Peter says:

    Wow, who hid mclaren’s medication? I haven’t seen them lose their shit like this in a long time.

  120. 120
    Roger Moore says:

    @kay:

    What do they want from him :)

    270+ Tuesday night.

  121. 121
    Baud says:

    @Anne Laurie:

    if they did, they cheerleading squads are squared up and ready to scream traitorfirebaggeremoDIAF at them…

    Huh? Why are you assuming that these people wouldn’t vote Democratic if they voted?

  122. 122
    Kane says:

    Chuck Todd explained on Saturday in his daily rundown that this election will be decided between the “white versus the non-right.”

  123. 123
    Roger Moore says:

    @Peter:

    I haven’t seen them lose their shit like this in a long time.

    AFAIK, McLaren is a her.

  124. 124
    General Stuck says:

    @Anne Laurie:

    If they don’t bother to show up and vote, they are not firebaggers. They are lazy. And if they need someone to hold their hand, they are self absorbed. And lazy

  125. 125
    Peter says:

    @Roger Moore: That’s what I thought too, but I wasn’t sure so I fell back on good old singular they.

  126. 126
    some guy says:

    the Center Righties here always get their panties in a bunge when dougj points out that the Democratic Party is a center right party.

    too funny. and as always, eeMoron is a moron.

  127. 127
    dogwood says:

    @kay:

    Thanks for all the information on Ohio that you share here.

    I have an ex-student who works for the DNC who spent quite a bit of time in Michigan with the Stabenow campaign. His mother called be to say he was moved to Virginia about ten days ago. He had called to talk her down from the ledge and assure her that all was well. The Obama campaign and the DNC are feeling cautiously optimistic about VA. and are putting more resources there.

  128. 128
    Anne Laurie says:

    @Baud:

    Why are you assuming that these people wouldn’t vote Democratic if they voted?

    Irony. If the disaffected leftists did show up to vote Democratic, how many people — some of them BJ regulars — would be complaining they did so for the wrong reasons, or that their impulse to vote for the right candidates was insufficiently ardent?

  129. 129
    Narcissus says:

    OT: Steve Kroft on 60 minutes says the Senate doesn’t work because both sides do it.

  130. 130
    Baud says:

    @Anne Laurie:

    I can’t speak for anyone else than me, but I would never complain about someone voting the Democratic Party (as long as they didn’t use the fact that the voted for the Dems as an excuse to unfairly trash the Dems).

    And I don’t think most of the people who don’t vote are disaffected leftists. I think a lot of them, however, have bought into the lie put forward by leftists — and others — that voting doesn’t matter.

  131. 131
    Davis X. Machina says:

    @Roger Moore:

    And they’ll counter by claiming that the death penalty is divinely ordained,

    Not if they’re orthodox Catholics, they won’t.

    I so love being bad-mouthed as a ‘cafeteria Catholic’ by pro-death penalty Legion of Mary types.

  132. 132
    arguingwithsignposts says:

    @Anne Laurie:

    If the disaffected leftists did show up to vote Democratic, how many people—some of them BJ regulars—would be complaining they did so for the wrong reasons, or that their impulse to vote for the right candidates was insufficiently ardent?

    ITT: I have officially lost track of who’s moar pure.

  133. 133
    Baud says:

    @arguingwithsignposts:

    Mirror, mirror on the wall
    Who’s the purist of them all?

  134. 134
    JPL says:

    @Narcissus: yup and I changed the channel.

  135. 135
    General Stuck says:

    Irony. If the disaffected leftists did show up to vote Democratic, how many people—some of them BJ regulars—would be complaining they did so for the wrong reasons, or that their impulse to vote for the right candidates was insufficiently ardent?

    LOL, that is fairly high off the wall, even for you AL. Does somebody need a big Obot hug?

  136. 136
    ericblair says:

    @some guy:

    the Center Righties here always get their panties in a bunge when dougj points out that the Democratic Party is a center right party.

    From a perspective of Western democracies, yes, I don’t see the problem. The Dems mostly correspond to the Center-Right Technocrat Natural Ruling Party, the goopers correspond to the National Front, the Greens are the Greens, and we don’t have a separate social democratic party, since they make up one of the wings of the Dems. That the National Front is getting over 40% of the vote should be our main concern.

    @Anne Laurie:

    Irony. If the disaffected leftists did show up to vote Democratic, how many people—some of them BJ regulars—would be complaining they did so for the wrong reasons, or that their impulse to vote for the right candidates was insufficiently ardent?

    Mind explaining who you’re talking about? The Obots here seem to want everybody to show up and mark the right box, since your poll booth emotional state makes fuck-all difference to the tabulation devices. Similarly, an ardent philosophically-argued refusal to vote for ethical reasons is completely indistinguishable from not being able to find your car keys and deciding fuck it, Wheel of Fortune is on.

  137. 137
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Anne Laurie:

    Of course, if they did, they cheerleading squads are squared up and ready to scream traitorfirebaggeremoDIAF at them…

    I don’t follow. If more liberals came out of the woodwork, that would be a great thing for the nation and the nation’s politics. Liberals need to take over the Democratic Party by force of numbers if they are to push the country left. But I don’t see any reason to think that there are liberals in the woodwork waiting to come out.

    And, even then, I’d want to say that liberals already _do_ dominate the party on matters of race, gender, and sexuality. The big sticking point is what to do in the South, plains, and Midwest about social-program spending and balanced budgets, which are two sides of the same coin. That’s where the “center-right” aspect shines forth, because Democrats who don’t at least pay lip service to small businesses and paying down the deficit and being efficient rather than wasteful about public services don’t get elected in those places.

    There, the leftmost margin of viability becomes Mark Warner. Running Mark Warner isn’t stopping you from getting Sherrod Brown, it’s stopping you from getting Ken Cuccinelli.

  138. 138
    Kirbster says:

    It’s a real toss-up as to which of our country’s “un-systems” is less efficient: health care or elections.

  139. 139
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Anne Laurie:

    If the disaffected leftists did show up to vote Democratic, how many people—some of them BJ regulars—would be complaining they did so for the wrong reasons, or that their impulse to vote for the right candidates was insufficiently ardent?

    Um, none of them? I don’t understand what you’re implying.

  140. 140
    1badbaba3 says:

    @Kane: See, it’s all perfectly normal. What could be more American than that?

    @eemom: So there are, like, these sparks between you two? Like, you’re at each mother’s throats all the time, and you don’t know why? Cool. It’s like Sam and Diane, or Buffy and Angel in the beginning. You crazy kids just need to get a room, be happy, and don’t forget to write.

    We’ll break the news to ladyfriend. *sigh*

  141. 141
    Roger Moore says:

    @Baud:

    And I don’t think most of the people who don’t vote are disaffected leftists.

    I doubt that most of them are disaffected leftists, but the received wisdom is that Democrats are helped more than Republicans by high turnout, which suggests that people who vote infrequently or never are probably more left leaning than the population as a whole.

    That said, I think a lot of the infrequent voter demographic is made of people who basically dislike the whole concept of politics. They think that the whole system is corrupt, it’s just a bunch of power suckers sucking power, and/or that in encourages people to be disagreeable, and if everyone were just sensible and willing to compromise then we could avoid all the bother. Those people can be convinced to vote if they think they’re voting for somebody who transcends regular politics and avoids whatever pitfall it is that they believe is the key thing that corrupts our political system. I think people like that are inherently difficult to categorize as left or right because they generally reject the basic premises of the left-right system.

  142. 142
    eemom says:

    @some guy:

    awwww. Does some dipshit tough guy wuvs him some John Cole?

    That’s sweet.

  143. 143
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Kirbster: That’s a good point. I think, since both systems are unwieldy and ossified, it makes sense to enroll in and make the best use of the inefficient system, rather than pining for a better one without much of a plan for how to get it.

  144. 144
    Keith G says:

    deleting a d/p. :(

  145. 145
    Keith G says:

    @General Stuck:
    @Anne Laurie:
    When I said this:

    It’s likely that very many of the non-voting citizens now-a-days tend to be a bit left of the center post and if they ever regularly showed up, we might rightfully be called a center left society. But they don’t.

    I was not referring to those who have voted, but are non-voting recently to make a statement.

    I was thinking about those of our fellow citizens who have not crossed over to the good side due to social or cultural reasons, eg: 18 – 24 yr olds or Hispanics.

    I would guess that their regular and committed participation in elections would/will move the balance to slightly left of center.

  146. 146
    Roger Moore says:

    @ericblair:

    From a perspective of Western democracies, yes, I don’t see the problem. The Dems mostly correspond to the Center-Right Technocrat Natural Ruling Party, the goopers correspond to the National Front, the Greens are the Greens, and we don’t have a separate social democratic party, since they make up one of the wings of the Dems. That the National Front is getting over 40% of the vote should be our main concern.

    Yeah, though I would make one small correction. I think the Democrats basically represent a relatively stable coalition between the Center Right Technocrats and the Social Democrats, rather than one or the other. They’ve formed a stable coalition rather than being the two major parties the way things are in most of Europe, because the National Front is so huge.

  147. 147
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Roger Moore:

    That said, I think a lot of the infrequent voter demographic is made of people who basically dislike the whole concept of politics.

    I think a lot of the infrequent voter demographic is people who are busy, and often poor, and have to make a conscientious effort to arrange their lives to participate in the whole thing while making sure the baby is fed and the bills are paid.

  148. 148
    arguingwithsignposts says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    I think a lot of the infrequent voter demographic is people who are busy, and often poor, and have to make a conscientious effort to arrange their lives to participate in the whole thing while making sure the baby is fed and the bills are paid.

    If only there were some way the government could arrange elections so that it would be *easier* for people to vote, instead of making it such a pain in the ass. Like, I don’t know, a national holiday or weekend voting, or mail-in ballots or some combination of things.

    I know, crazy talk.

  149. 149
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Roger Moore: I think that makes a lot of sense, but I think the “technocrats” aren’t necessarily center-right ideologically — they’re basically invested in providing public services so that they are evenly distributed and efficiently managed. I think American technocrats tend to be center-left because the right has gotten so wildly anti-government lately.

  150. 150
    MikeJ says:

    Three new Wa gov polls. Inslee has a narrow lead in all three.

    Imagine beating McKenna, beating Romney, passing marriage equality, and MJ decrim all on the same night.

  151. 151
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @arguingwithsignposts: Maybe we need a “grand bargain” on voting rights. Make it easier to participate, easier to audit, and also at the same time do something to eliminate the remotest possibility of fraud (which doesn’t happen, but throw them a sop to climb aboard the technocrat reform train).

  152. 152
    scav says:

    yup. Third basement of a glass-bottomed shithouse this one was for the ever-expected few.

  153. 153
    Chris says:

    @ericblair:

    No, the Goopers are a very American fusion of the economic elites that in Western Europe would be center right, and the racist nationalists that would be the far right. I don’t think Europe has an equivalent, exactly. Yet. Based on the way Sarkozy spent the last five years trying to Southern Strategy the National Front, I wouldn’t be surprised if the French right wing looked exactly like the GOP in a decade. Can’t speak for the rest of Europe.

  154. 154
    JustAnotherBob says:

    Yep, “one centrist corporatist party” that believes in equal rights for all. Believes in good public education systems. Believes in helping out those who are having a hard time. Believes in fixing our environmental problems. Believes in rolling back the power of corporations. Believes in working toward world peace.

    And “one far-right even-more-corporatist party”.

    And, I suppose, some batshit crazy folks on the left who define those not as extreme as them as “centrist corporatists”.

    I mean, if you don’t believe in free unicorn ponies for all you must be an evil centrist.

    Thanks, asshole.

  155. 155
  156. 156
    Roger Moore says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    I think a lot of the infrequent voter demographic is people who are busy, and often poor, and have to make a conscientious effort to arrange their lives to participate in the whole thing while making sure the baby is fed and the bills are paid.

    And I’ll guess that a lot of those voters fall into a fourth group who I sadly (and ironically) left out: neglected voters. These are people who have given up on the system because the system isn’t addressing them and their interests. Some of these people are kooks who give way too much emphasis to a relatively minor issue, but a lot of them are poor minorities who have recognized that their issues are systematically ignored. They would probably make the effort to vote if they saw candidates who were genuinely working to make their lives better, but they just don’t see anyone who fits in that category. I have a lot more sympathy for people who see things that way than for the other disaffected voters.

  157. 157
    ericblair says:

    @Chris:

    No, the Goopers are a very American fusion of the economic elites that in Western Europe would be center right, and the racist nationalists that would be the far right.

    I see your point, but it looks like many of the mover and shaker billionaires essentially running the goopers are as looney-tunes as and indistinguishable from the unwashed masses. Unfortunately, it looks more like a proper fascist party from the bad old days, with nationalism, institutionalized racism, and domination by a set of favored corporate interests.

  158. 158
    Roger Moore says:

    @FlipYrWhig:
    A beautiful idea, but it isn’t going to fly. The Republicans can see they’re getting closer to a day when voter suppression and fraud are their main way of winning nationally; they aren’t going to make any kind of bargain that gives them up.

  159. 159
    Shawn in ShowMe says:

    @Anne Laurie:

    Of course, if they did, they cheerleading squads are squared up and ready to scream traitorfirebaggeremoDIAF at them…

    Yeah, that’s totally what would happen. Or we could just crush the Republican party for all time and get on with our lives.

  160. 160
    Chris says:

    @ericblair:

    I think a lot of these elites are malleable about who they back. If the national mood is far enough to the left, they’ll back a moderate party rather than get cut out (as they do in Europe and used to in America). If the mood of the country shifts more to the right, then they can get away with backing fascism, always a good ally against organized labor and other checks on elite power.

    Our elites on Wall Street used to back old school Victorian conservatism, then they backed moderate Eisenhower/Rockefeller Republicans, then they aligned with the insane modern conservative movement. IOW those guys aren’t fascist by conviction so much as just following their interest.

  161. 161
    LD50 says:

    @eemom: You are taking this place way too seriously.

  162. 162
    Darkrose says:

    @Democrat Partisan Asshole: That’s really good to know. Thanks.

  163. 163
    opie_jeanne says:

    @Roger Moore: Did she have another user name until recently?

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    Yutsano says:

    @MikeJ: I just want that fucking liar’s political career to end. The best part is I could be describing either one.

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    opie_jeanne says:

    @MikeJ: Yay! Thank you for sharing that with us. I’ve had to really dig to find out about the Governor’s race.

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    gwangung says:

    @Roger Moore:

    And I’ll guess that a lot of those voters fall into a fourth group who I sadly (and ironically) left out: neglected voters. These are people who have given up on the system because the system isn’t addressing them and their interests. Some of these people are kooks who give way too much emphasis to a relatively minor issue, but a lot of them are poor minorities who have recognized that their issues are systematically ignored. They would probably make the effort to vote if they saw candidates who were genuinely working to make their lives better, but they just don’t see anyone who fits in that category

    I think this just as well applies to poor whites as well. They’re thinking that they’ve been abandoned by politics and the two major parties; given that, they are most certainly against anything that would threaten their status vis a vis other poor people.

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    gwangung says:

    @MikeJ: Damn, I hope so.

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    opie_jeanne says:

    @Yutsano: I think my daughter is coming with us. She called off the party at her house, too exhausted from painting, so we suggested she come along.

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    Brachiator says:

    Of course, in reality, we have one centrist corporatist party and one far-right even-more-corporatist in this country. Moreover, the centrist corporatist party tends to run the federal government reasonably competently, whereas the far-right even-more-corporatist party does not.

    Not really true at all and pointlessly reductive. And anyone who seriously believes this is as useless as the Tea Party. But a hundred times more irrelevant. The Tea Party people have the GOP by the cojones. The strident “anti corporatists,” meanwhile, can only whine and stamp their feet as they paint themselves into an ideological corner.

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    NobodySpecial says:

    @General Stuck: I just love the way you talk about how you don’t know if you’d wait 7 hours in line to vote, then get all ‘Personal Responsibility!’ on people who don’t vote. Romnesia must be a hell of a drug.

    That’s almost as funny as everyone here who makes jokes about unicorns and Candyland whenever an actual leftist shows up to make an argument and then did a ‘Who? Me? What did I do?’ when Anne Laurie points it out.

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