Saturday Evening Open Thread


__
__
Thanks to faithful Obot and BJ commentor Lamh35.

Tom Scocca at Slate, on the same topic, “parsing the narrow tribal appeal of the Republican nominee“:

… There is a real, airtight bubble in this election, but it’s not Obama’s. As a middle-aged white man, in fact, I’m breaching it. White people—white men in particular—are for Mitt Romney. White men are supporting Mitt Romney to the exclusion of logic or common sense, in defiance of normal Americans. Without this narrow, tribal appeal, Romney’s candidacy would simply not be viable. Most kinds of Americans see no reason to vote for him….

What is it with these white men? What are they seeing that ordinary people don’t see? What accounts for this … secession of theirs, from the rest of America? John Sununu, Romney’s campaign co-chair, responded to Colin Powell’s endorsement of Obama by saying, “I think that when you have somebody of your own race that you’re proud of being president of the United States—I applaud Colin for standing with him.”

Sununu was trying to be snide. But there he is, standing with Mitt Romney. Just like Donald Trump and Clint Eastwood and Buzz Bissinger and Meat Loaf—one aging white man after another. It’s a study in identity politics…

For your further amusement, Paul Constant addresses the good people of Saskatchewan:

It’s easy to fall prey to the belief that all Americans are racists who’ll hang Obama in effigy on their lawns, or monstrous shambles of men who claim with alarming sangfroid that rape isn’t really that bad, or gun-worshipping ghouls who believe that God is a little bearded man who perches on their shoulders and whispers homophobic, anti-science rants into their ears. And you probably believe we Americans all vote against our own financial interests — affordable health care, higher taxes on the wealthy, laws to protect us from corporate greed — because we harbor the illusion that we’re just one lottery ticket away from becoming spiteful billionaire slave-drivers ourselves. But that’s not true. Only about half of us are like this.

The impulse to blame is strong, and culprits are everywhere. Our news media are easily the dumbest and laziest in the First World. Because we loathe taxes down to our DNA, our schools are fomenting armies of vacuous boobs who believe critical thought means posting a one-star review on Yelp. Then 9/11 happened, blowing out the circuit boards of a whole generation of our wishy-washiest liberals, transforming them into paranoid, frightened babies who throw their tantrums at the ballot box, electing only the shrillest and most offensive candidates. Bill Clinton pushed liberals to the political middle, and then George W. Bush pushed conservatives to the primate side of the evolutionary scale. You could throw around enough accusatory fingers to blind a good-sized metropolitan area….

What else is on the agenda this evening?

166 replies
  1. 1
    Baud says:

    Waiting to watch the Virginia rally, but C-Span now says 10:35 pm.

  2. 2
    gbear says:

    @Baud: Yep, I just went over to tune it in and wondered why it hadn’t started yet. Hell if I’m going to watch the Romney rally.

    ETA: Maher actually had a pretty funny synopsis of the 2012 campaign on his New Rules segment. I chuckled out loud. Can’t embed while editing so:

    http://videocafe.crooksandliar.....obama-wins

  3. 3
    JPL says:

    Maureen Dowd has her usual snarky oped piece but this comment stood out If we know him, why does he seem so much slighter than the Barack Obama who thrilled the country a mere four years ago? Since my comments have not been posted before I didn’t say you are a fucking asshole, but mentioned GM and Osama. The President brought us back from the brink of despair and in my eyes he is a giant.

  4. 4
    Robin G. says:

    Watching Rifftrax‘s take on Revenge of the Sith. (All their Star Wars stuff is on sale in celebration of the unholy merger.)

  5. 5
    ruemara says:

    Sitting here with a balloon up my nose, ensuring that I do not have another nosebleed and another trip to the hospital. The human body is super gross.

  6. 6
    Baud says:

    @gbear:

    C-Span is currently showing a libertarian program – “Young Americans for Liberty and GOLD!”

    Ok, I made up that last part.

  7. 7
    Old Dan and Little Ann says:

    I played FSM and already turned my clocks back an hour. Also, wine, reveling in ND’s win, and looking forward to telling most of my friends to kiss my fucking ass on Wednesday.

  8. 8
    NotMax says:

    Where’s the FOX/Trump empty outrage about Obama’s scheduling of the time change right before the election?

  9. 9
    Garbo says:

    Programming note: Louis C.K. Is hosting Saturday Night Live. That’s where I’ll be (watching at least) at 11:30.

  10. 10
    dmsilev says:

    @NotMax: Not only does Obama control the weather, he controls the very fabric of time itself.

    (How else do you think he faked his own birth certificate?)

  11. 11
    Patricia Kayden says:

    So what will it mean on Tuesday night if President Obama wins even if Romneybot 2.0 gets 65% of the White male vote? Doesn’t that mean that they don’t matter now and won’t matter in the future as far as determining national politics?

    Or maybe we can flip the dialogue to emphasize that White male voters in the mid-west (particularly in the states helped by the auto bailout) ensured that The Bot couldn’t win this election?

    I assume the Repubs will work on reaching out to Hispanic voters the next time around.

  12. 12
    Garbo says:

    @JPL: The higher the stakes, the more vacuous her commentary. The inverse ratio is perfect.

  13. 13

    “Don’t worry Canada. We aren’t ALL like this, only half of us are!”

    I don’t know how that’s suppose to calm their fears.

    @Robin G.:

    Love Rifftrax. And the prequels make for better jokes than the Original Trilogy.

  14. 14
    jacy says:

    @dmsilev:

    Moon Bases. Or was it Mars? I forget. But there’s a time-travel station somewhere up there. I saw it on the interwebs.

  15. 15
    Garbo says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    I assume the Repubs will work on reaching out to Hispanic voters the next time around.

    Patricia made a funny.

  16. 16
    MikeJ says:

    @dmsilev:

    Not only does Obama control the weather, he controls the very fabric of time itself.

    “The Democrats have the phonebox!” That’s my favourite. I have it on a t-shirt.

  17. 17
    trollhattan says:

    Grilling a frozen hunk of salmon (WTF, in September they thaw in that amount of time?!?) and polishing off last night’s zin, eyeballing the next bottle that must surrender its cork.

    Oh yeah, cursing Adobe Lightroom for crashing in the middle of a 150GB file move. You bastards! /Stan Marsh

  18. 18
    Raven says:

    Waiting for Cassidy to show up and tell me how my Dawgs “choked” against Ole Miss.

  19. 19
    eemom says:

    @JPL:

    MoDo’s columns have one and only one subject: her.

    And that, would be a despicable, pathetic, self-absorbed old has been who hasn’t gotten laid in 25 years.

  20. 20
    Ruckus says:

    @Garbo:
    Or she forgot the urban definition of assume.

  21. 21
    Raven says:

    @trollhattan: Why are you using Lightroom for video?

  22. 22
    Robin G. says:

    @freelancer (iPhone): Have you watched the Rifftrax for the Twilight saga? They’re life-changing.

  23. 23
    PsiFighter37 says:

    Polishing off a Harpoon IPA and waiting for Big Dog + Big O before calling it a night. There are more doors waiting to be knocked tomorrow.

  24. 24
    Chris says:

    What is it with these white men? What are they seeing that ordinary people don’t see? What accounts for this … secession of theirs, from the rest of America?

    You have no idea how much I’d like it if we started addressing the fact that these people are the anomaly, not the norm, that sees something that every other demographic in America doesn’t. And I say this as a perfectly white man.

  25. 25
    Yutsano says:

    @jacy: There’s a much simpler explanation. Just look over the President’s left shoulder.

  26. 26
    efgoldman says:

    White people—white men in particular—are for Mitt Romney. White men are supporting Mitt Romney to the exclusion of logic or common sense, in defiance of normal Americans. Without this narrow, tribal appeal, Romney’s candidacy would simply not be viable.

    I get so fucking tired of this generality. I am an old angry white male. I would sooner move to Pyongyang than vote for Mittster or any other of today’s GOBP. That’s who I’m angry at. They have fucked up American democracy to a fuck-thee-well. I want each and every one of the TeaHadis to DIAF, and as I said last week, I never felt that way before in the 22 elections cycles I’ve voted in since I turned 21.

  27. 27
    Cathy D says:

    @Baud: I would tell them that one issue important to “Younger Voters” – not being called “younger voters.” And cake.

  28. 28
    Ruckus says:

    @eemom:
    And that, would be a despicable, pathetic, self-absorbed old has been who hasn’t gotten laid in 25 years.

    If that is true she must be much worse in person than in print because we men have very little in the way of standards when it comes to getting laid. Some standards mind you, but the bar can be set pretty low, especially if there is alcohol involved.

  29. 29
    EconWatcher says:

    Middle-aged white guy here. Looking forward to voting for the President (with gusto) and Tim Kaine (because it’s time for George Allen to go back to running a small law office with a noose hanging from a tree outside, just like the old days [true story, by the way]).

    What’s wrong with my kind? I really don’t know.

  30. 30
    Baud says:

    The show is on!

  31. 31
    trollhattan says:

    @Raven: Shoving an entire year of photos from one drive to another. Just rechecked and it’s actually 180GB. Isolated the folder it was moving when the crash happened, so I probably only need to check that one for corrupted files.

    I just want to note that computers are our friends because they save us time. [stage whisper: I think HAL is spying on me.]

  32. 32
    West of the Rockies (formerly Frank W.) says:

    Thank you, Anne for the video ~ funny stuff! 72 hours from now, we just may be celebrating! 4 MORE YEARS!

  33. 33
    Steeplejack says:

    Checked the DVR to make sure the time shift will not screw up anything critical. I seem to remember being impressed at how the Cox Cable gnomes handled things last year, but I don’t remember the specifics.

    And I don’t remember from last year if things have been fixed on this blog. The server seems to not get its time updated promptly, and that has caused problems in the past. But, hey, it’s WordPress–what could go wrong?

  34. 34
    Raven says:

    @trollhattan: OH MOVE, I had a long day at the stadium and read MOVIE.

  35. 35
    Alexandra says:

    Don’t wait for C-Span. Virginia event now streaming. Bill Clinton sounds incredibly hoarse.

    http://www.barackobama.com/LIVE/

  36. 36
    Pavonis says:

    Speaking of Canada…

    Imagine what would have happened if the American invasion of Quebec in 1775 had succeeded. The new United States would have had a different balance of power; the slave plantation economies of the South would have been even more weaker compared to the free labor economies of the North and Canada. I think American history would’ve been much more liberal up until the present day.

    And another alternative history which could have easily happened: Britain cuts a deal with the American colonies giving them representation in Parliament, stopping the rebellion. At the time of the American Revolution the population ratio between the 13 Colonies and England was roughly 1 to 3. But the U.S. surpassed the U.K. in population around 1840 meaning that America would have the more seats in Parliament than England in this alternate history. Would a British Empire which still held all its North American territory have evolved into a mega-American empire with most of North America, India, Southern Africa, Oceania, etc.? Such an empire would be larger than any in our history.

  37. 37
    Woodrowfan says:

    @EconWatcher: We need some kind of gang sign we can flash at each other so we know which older white guys are not the stereotypical Rushfanboy, Fox-watching, OMG-the prez-is-a-nCLANG, repuke-voting bozos. I have gotten to the point where I get nervous around older white people because I keep expecting them to start talking about Glenn Beck or what Hannity said today!

  38. 38
    Yutsano says:

    @MikeJ: I hate you on occasion. But at least I had photographic evidence. :)

    PS: Will be at Montlake around 4ish. As soon as the idiotic rah-rah thing is done at work I’m out the door.

  39. 39
    freelancer says:

    @dmsilev:

    Not only does Obama control the weather, he controls the very fabric of time itself.
    (How else do you think he faked his own birth certificate?)

    The long form is on Psychic Paper.

  40. 40
    gbear says:

    Yep, I turned back my clocks too, grabbed a handful of cookies, and I’m heading off to CSPAN.

    Senior white guy here. Complete Obot. Please let me vote.

  41. 41
    freelancer says:

    @Robin G.:

    Line?

  42. 42
    PsiFighter37 says:

    Goddamn Bill Clinton’s voice is nearly gone. Bet he’s still loving it as much as ever.

  43. 43
    redshirt says:

    I think tomorrow is the worst day of the year, every year. The day darkness comes. Sunset tomorrow for me is 4:25. It’s going to get as bad as 3:50. Such epic darkness, all the time. SAD!

  44. 44
    JPL says:

    @Alexandra: Thanks.. He does sound hoarse. Hopefully his voice holds up for two more days.

  45. 45
    pkdz says:

    I loved the picture of the mom jeans. Chris Rocks the vote!

    The New Yorker has a great cartoon. A doctor is talking to a patient over the phone, “O.K., Carolyn, I want you to do your breathing exercises, have a hot bath, take a Xanax, get into bed, and read Nate Silver again.

    http://www.newyorker.com/carto.....82#slide=2

  46. 46
    weaselone says:

    @efgoldman:

    It’s also inaccurate. While the split nationally is 65% for Romney, it’s far more favorable for Obama in the states he is actually winning and those white male voters are an essential part of his coalition of voters. Without white males in the swing and safe states, Obama does not win the election.

  47. 47
    suzanne says:

    My husband and the baby and I spent most of the day canvassing for our local Dems. Richard Carmona came by the office to give the volunteers a pep talk. I’m getting so damn excited. My third-grade teacher is running for our State Senate seat, and I’m hopeful that she’ll pull out a victory. Maybe it’s just because I want it so badly, but I really feel like things here in Arizona are on the upswing. More and more of my friends are finding jobs, our housing values are slowly climbing, my office is getting busier and busier. Having good people representing us would absolutely fill me with happiness.

  48. 48
    gbear says:

    @Alexandra: Really, Clinton’s voice is shot. Sounds painful.

  49. 49
    eemom says:

    @Ruckus:

    According to legend as recounted by a FDLer long ago, she bought him a drink at a Yearly Kos once (back before it was Netroots Nation) and was outraged when she found out he was gay.

  50. 50
    Ruckus says:

    @Woodrowfan:
    This is the reason I have not wanted to do OFA door to door. I doubt I could have a peaceful conversation with a conservative. And I like that I have managed to stay out of jail all these years.

  51. 51
    JPL says:

    @gbear: He needs tea, lemon and honey. At least that what my mom gave me. His words are wonderful though.

  52. 52
    scav says:

    @MikeJ:

    “The Democrats have the phonebox!”

    This may very keep me going until Tuesday, even this of all Tuesdays.

    Bigger on the inside, so put that in your GOTV results. . . .

  53. 53
    sfinny says:

    Voted today at my county board of elections. Another women who was voting there was complaining about the fact that voter ID wasn’t required. The BOE worker calmly explained the law and basically told the woman that if she wanted to show ID, that was fine.

  54. 54
    Svensker says:

    @gbear:

    Really, Clinton’s voice is shot. Sounds painful.

    He got the same cold Violet and I have. Total throat buster. Or maybe he’s been making a lot of speeches….:)

  55. 55
    Princess says:

    Do you remember the old days when Clinton was running and every campaign he would totally lose his voice by the last two or three days?

  56. 56
    waratah says:

    Clinton really losing voice but enjoying so much he cannot stop

  57. 57
    Ruckus says:

    @eemom:
    So you might say she is batting a thousand.
    Can’t write
    Can’t understand reality
    Can’t get laid
    Can’t get invited to the in parties
    Can’t figure out how to not look her age
    Can’t figure out how to act her age

    Did I leave anything out?

  58. 58
    opie_jeanne says:

    @MikeJ: Could you explain that for me? I have no idea what “The Democrats have the phone box” means.

  59. 59
    gbear says:

    Clinton made it through. Here comes Obama.

  60. 60
    JPL says:

    OMG.. I’m in love..

  61. 61
    opie_jeanne says:

    @Yutsano: OMG! TARDIS!

    Is this the phonebox that was mentioned?

  62. 62
    JPL says:

    @JPL: Okay I’m not alone, a gal behind the President is wiping her eyes.

  63. 63
    Ruckus says:

    @opie_jeanne:
    See Who, Dr.

    Look at the picture over the President’s left shoulder. Looks like a blue phone booth.

  64. 64
    scav says:

    @opie_jeanne: ‘zackly. Speaking in high nerd was he.

  65. 65
    jurassicpork says:

    Here’s my exclusive video of the Elizabeth Warren rally in Hudson, MA yesterday plus a swat across Charles Pierce’s bow for his boneheaded Halloween post.

  66. 66
    Yutsano says:

    @opie_jeanne: @Ruckus: This might help. This was unfortunately unaired. But it’s dastardly funny.

    PS: QUACK!!

  67. 67
    opie_jeanne says:

    @Yutsano: At 4ish? That’s pretty early to start getting drunk.

    We have been invited to a party at my daughter’s house that evening, complete with her homemade chili and a bunch of like-minded people. We will hit the bar with you at some point, maybe with a bunch of friends in tow.

  68. 68
    MikeJ says:

    Didn’t repeat the revenge line.

  69. 69
    burnspbesq says:

    Anybody out there in Situational Ethics Conference-land want to try and explain how Alabama beats Oregon?

  70. 70
    feebog says:

    Got out and knocked some doors this afternoon for my Assembly Candidate Ed Headington. Going to finish the precinct tomorrow. Had a long and futile conversation with a guy one block up who is a fireman and a complete wingnut. One of these guys who thinks unions are evil, but is going to take the pension and run when the time comes. Never occurs to him that he wouldn’t have a pension if it weren’t for the union.

    Tired, but glad we can see the finish line from here. Hope everyone has a great weekend and GOTV!

  71. 71
    Raven says:

    @burnspbesq: They haven’t beaten LSU yet there Pac12 bitty.
    eta read my lips
    D
    E
    F
    E
    N
    S
    E

  72. 72
    gbear says:

    ‘Romney has the…brass to call it change’ snap.

  73. 73
    redshirt says:

    Shameless blog pimping: Redshirt’s Lament

    I’m working on a series of Obama VICTORY posts that I’m quite proud of so far.

  74. 74
    Raven says:

    LSU takes the lead!

  75. 75
    MikeJ says:

    @Yutsano:

    PS: Will be at Montlake around 4ish.

    I’m shooting for 4-5. Do I have yer email?

    Opie Jean, you gonna be there? Who else from Seattle is going to the election night thingie?

  76. 76
    JPL says:

    @gbear: fired up and ready to go.. I love this speech.

  77. 77
    Garbo says:

    I meant what I said, and I said what I meant, Obama is trustworthy, 100%.

  78. 78
    Louise says:

    Have to share:

    Last week, I was in a therapy session with a gentleman who has Alzheimer’s disease, when his phone rang and when his aide didn’t pick up, he answered. He is at the stage where he can give social replies but is not truly aware of what’s going on. I would have intervened, but I quickly realized it was a Republican political call.

    Voice on Phone: Mr. X, I’m calling because you are valued member of the Republican Party.

    My Client: Yes, okay.

    Voice: I want to be sure you’re aware how critical this upcoming election is.

    Client: Yeah, sure, hello.

    Voice: Don’t you agree that Barack Obama is just dangerous for this country, and that we must elect Mitt Romney?

    Client: What?

    Voice: Don’t you agree that it’s critical for the health of our nation that we fire Barack Obama? I’m sure you know that we can’t allow him to continue the current path.

    Client: Hrmph.

    Voice: Exactly!

    Client: What?

    Voice: His economic policies have sent this country into a tailspin and we must repeal Obamacare.

    Client: Repeal. Blerg.

    Voice: Yes! That’s right!

    This went on for another minute or so before the aide picked up the extension and the fun ended. The fanatic on the phone was so intent on getting his message out that he was oblivious to the person he was talking to. Idiot.

  79. 79
    pseudonymous in nc says:

    @JPL:

    Maureen Dowd has her usual snarky oped piece but this comment stood out If we know him, why does he seem so much slighter than the Barack Obama who thrilled the country a mere four years ago?

    If people were to subject Maureen Dowd to the level of public hatred and sheer crazy that the president has faced for four years, I suspect she’d seem “slighter” to certain observers.

  80. 80
    Yutsano says:

    @MikeJ: Dollared confirmed he was. I haven’t heard from Linnaeus, Thalarctos, or CaseyL yet. Or Bonny Anne. But if they were going to Drinking Liberally anyway that will be a good overlap.

  81. 81
    Elie says:

    @ruemara:

    Wow! take care of yourself… Nothing worse than when your body”acts up” leaving you mystefied and worried. Best wishes, Rue.

  82. 82
    PsiFighter37 says:

    Even Obama’s voice is pretty shot. Hope he takes a nice long Hawaiian vacation this December.

  83. 83
    MikeJ says:

    @MikeJ: To reply to myself, has anybody talked to Daryl? He was in the hospital last week because of his pancreas. I’m guessing he’s still gonna be there, and I doubt he could stop a mob being there even if he wasn’t.

  84. 84
    Another Halocene Human says:

    Republicans voting Obama

    damn, but they are dropping some good vids these last few days

    I just about died laughing at the Will Ferrell vid

  85. 85
    Robin G. says:

    @freelancer: I want Angry Harpo to troll a Romney rally.

  86. 86
    Spaghetti Lee says:

    Was half-paying attention to CFB on TV and saw a Todd Akin ad-the first one I’ve seen all election season! It had a white backdrop and nice tinkly piano music and talked about how you need to vote Todd Akin because he’d get straight to work (laser-like focus on jobs, etc.) while that Claire McCaskill would be all mean and partisan-y and try to get in the way of…Mitt Romney’s policies. Apparently Romentum is being taken on faith by the people making ads, too.

  87. 87
    Linda Featheringill says:

    As I have argued my way through several comments over the last few months blaming old folks for Republican popularity, I’m taking very selfish enjoyment out of seeing white males targeted.

    How does it feel, guys? You do everything you can for Obama and people say you’re a racist idiot because you’re white and you’re male. Doesn’t feel good, does it?

    That’s how I feel when people on this blog wish bad things would happen to all old people because of those who support Republicans.

  88. 88
    danielx says:

    @JPL:

    He seems less to dear Mo because in order to get anything at all accomplished he’s had to compromise with morons. That is, Republicans who would rather see the country go down the fucking tubes than allow Obama anything that appears to be of benefit to voters. None of which should be news to anyone with a pulse, naturally…but somehow it is news to MoDo.

    As to else, quaffing a Sierra Nevada Porter, snarfing up leftover M&Ms from Halloween and reading up on details for replacing the radiator in my car tomorrow, which promises to be an exceedingly sucky job. It couldn’t develop a leak three weeks ago when it was 75 outside, oh, no, of course not. Had to wait until it hasn’t cracked 50 for the last three days so the garage floor has had time to get REALLY cold…I’m already working up a collection of really obscene threats to frozen bolts.

  89. 89
    Elie says:

    @Svensker:

    I can also relate — both hubby and I have been sick and also have persistent cough…bummer.

  90. 90
    gbear says:

    Wow, Obama is really pulling out from the heart tonight. He’s sounding hoarse too but it’s just adding urgency.
    Speech over. Great finish.

    I liked when he said that he was just a prop for his own campaign now and the election was now in the hands of the volunteers and voters.

    CSPAN just said it was his 4th campaign stop today.

  91. 91
    AkaDad says:

    The only way I’d vote for Romney is if Keira Knightly says she’d sleep with me and since that isn’t gonna happen…

  92. 92
    Redshift says:

    @weaselone:

    It’s also inaccurate. While the split nationally is 65% for Romney, it’s far more favorable for Obama in the states he is actually winning and those white male voters are an essential part of his coalition of voters. Without white males in the swing and safe states, Obama does not win the election.

    We really need to get the results of white men by region, by state, and hammer every news outlet and pundit with them. The problem isn’t just in the Old South, but if there wasn’t a much bigger problem with the South, we wouldn’t be talking about this. There are a lot of truisms in American politics that, if you look at the regional breakdowns rather than the national numbers, are just wrong.

  93. 93
    Alexandra says:

    @gbear:

    Honestly, I think they know they’ve got this.

  94. 94
    danielx says:

    @Ruckus:

    And the younger the male, the lower the bar gets as the night gets older.

  95. 95
    pseudonymous in nc says:

    @Pavonis:

    another alternative history which could have easily happened: Britain cuts a deal with the American colonies giving them representation in Parliament, stopping the rebellion.

    I actually had this conversation with one of the NPS people at the Liberty Bell, while waiting for my Independence Hall tour. Basically, it wouldn’t have been sustainable, given the distance and time between London and the colonies. The colonial representatives would have become absentee advocates no less than the existing British supporters of colonial self-rule (the Wilkes faction) and my guess is that within a couple of decades, the British Americans feel no less aggrieved and accuse their representatives of going native. (And if there’s still a revolution in Paris, then that probably becomes the catalyst.)

    Remember, at the same time, the British East India Company was busily taking over large parts of the subcontinent in a more or less ad hoc fashion: before steam ships and the telegraph, colonial agents had huge amounts of autonomy, and it’s no coincidence that the first high-speed shipping and communications networks went to those places. But there weren’t really the structures to support colonial self-rule until the mid-1800s.

  96. 96
    JPL says:

    @gbear: He mentioned that was what democracy was about. It was a great speech and hopefully Elizabelle will chime in and tell us what it was like to be in the audience.

  97. 97
    PsiFighter37 says:

    Looked like a fun rally to be at there in VA.

    And with that, it’s curtains for me. Back to pounding pavement in the AM.

  98. 98
    Garbo says:

    Off to bed with Louis C.K., nite, all.

  99. 99
    opie_jeanne says:

    @Ruckus: Thanks. Figured it out.

  100. 100
    General Stuck says:

    It’s been a while, so a fresh Charlie pic

  101. 101
    Anya says:

    @JPL: Fuck Maureen Dowd and her trivial obsessions.

  102. 102
    JPL says:

    @General Stuck: He is so cute. There can never be to many pics of Charlie.

  103. 103
    Redshift says:

    FYI, the Asian guy over the president’s right shoulder was my friend Mark Keam, who was the volunteer leader for the campaign in my county in ’08, and who I’ve since helped get elected to the state legislature!

  104. 104
    opie_jeanne says:

    @Yutsano: Quack? Are you a duck? Or is this a message to

    DUCK!

  105. 105
    gbear says:

    @PsiFighter37: It looked like people were cold. Lots of wool hats and big coats. Good luck tomorrow!

  106. 106
    opie_jeanne says:

    @MikeJ: We’ll be there around 4-6. Then we’ll head to our kid’s house for supper. We may come back to the Ale House if her party breaks up too early.

  107. 107
    West of the Rockies (formerly Frank W.) says:

    @Linda Featheringill: Point taken, Linda. I try to avoid gross generalizations because they tend to really alienate a lot of people. As a 50-year-old white guy, I’ve been noticing quite a bit of what you’re talking about going on in the last few days, here at BJ and other spots on the web. Next time any of us feel inclined to begin a sentence along the lines of, “All Catholics/all LGBT’s/all straight people/all black/all teachers/all cops/all Latinos/all Asians…” we should just ponder how accurate our thinking really is.

    A lot of the “old people” I’ve known have really rocked — been kind, funny, wise, generous, and loving. I hope to be old myself some day… hey, it beats not reaching old age!

  108. 108
    gbear says:

    I’ll add a fresh picture of my new cat Edward. Edward and Halley are getting along pretty well now. I’m pretty happy with the progress.

  109. 109
    Old Dan and Little Ann says:

    I thought Obama’s rally from Virginia was great. It fucking pisses me off, though, how all of Mitt’s crowds look the same and Obama’s crowds are so diverse. But it’s no godamn wonder the Republicans are so screwed.

  110. 110
    sfinny says:

    @gbear: What a beautiful cat. Seems pretty comfortable and happy.

  111. 111
    Redshift says:

    @Old Dan and Little Ann: It would piss me off if Mitt was winning, but as it is, I just enjoy the side-by-side images of the past and the future.

  112. 112
    opie_jeanne says:

    @Linda Featheringill: Thank you, and I love you. It really gets old, doesn’t it?

  113. 113
    danielx says:

    @Linda Featheringill: It’s not a problem for me, Linda – in my neck of the woods it just barely counterbalances the majority opinion that any white male (like me) who votes for Obama is an idiot and possibly/probably a soshulist and/or a faggot.

    All of which, at this point, puts a spring in my step and a sparkle in my teeth. Never tire of hearing it.

  114. 114
    Spaghetti Lee says:

    @Linda Featheringill:

    If you don’t mind, I’d like to jump off of this for something that’s been bugging me, and it is an open thread…

    I got into an argument online (bad start, I know) over whether the race-altering makeup in Cloud Atlas was itself racist. I said no, because I thought there had to be some negative intent for something to be racist, and this wasn’t negative or derogatory so much as an artistic gambit about reincarnation and essential humanity beyond physical features and such that maybe didn’t come off right to some people. But there were a lot of people who were convinced it was basically minstrelsy (the actors and the characters they played were a variety of races, ftr) and argued such.

    Fine, nothing wrong with a good debate. In this particular debate, the its-racist contingent seemed unusually aggressive. I gave the above opinion and got two responses (both from white people) that were basically “Oh look what the white guy has to say about race!” I asked them whether they’d ever say anything along the lines of “Oh look what the black guy has to say about x” or any non-white race. That would seem very racist itself. I didn’t really get an answer to that, although I did get a few more “look at the white guy” posts.

    I mean, honestly, I am aware of arguments about white privilege and how it has to be deconstructed and how white people shouldn’t assume they’re the authority on racial issues, because they’re not. I agree with that, mostly. But at a certain level of this stuff , when you’re ignoring/mocking someone’s opinions based mostly on their race, haven’t you kind of cycled back around to racism? Judging an individual’s ideas based on their race more than who they are as a person?

    Getting back to what you’re saying, I think regardless of whether it’s ‘deserved’, complaining about old people, white people, rural people, etc. being the rot at the heart of the country is just pointless and damaging. All you’re gonna get is resentment and misunderstanding. But at the same time, it’s a fact that both white men and seniors are probably going to go 60-65 percent for Romney, probably more lopsided than any other demographic of that size, and if even 10% of them switched over the election would be a laugher, and that’s going to get mentioned when you’re doing poll analysis. There’s just no way around it. So I guess I don’t know what to say. Don’t bring it up unless you have to, I guess, is my answer, and be mindful of the people who don’t fit the description. I think that valuing people as individuals as opposed to lumping them into groups is a good core value to have, but unfortunately a lot of politics involves the latter, by necessity.

  115. 115
    Redshift says:

    @gbear: It’s pretty chilly here in NoVa today, especially at 10-11pm. It’s not cold by winter standards, but it’s gotten a lot colder in the past couple of days, so we’re not used to it yet.

    (I didn’t go to the rally because I’m tired after canvassing all day and Ms. Redshift is sick, but I’m sure it was a lot of fun.)

  116. 116
    gbear says:

    @sfinny: He still gets kind of wound up now and then and when he does he tries to go up high. I’m trying to teach him that down low is good. Halley still has times when I can tell she has Edward overload so Edward gets a time out in the back room, which he doesn’t really mind. It’s still a little rough around the edges some days, but Edward is generally a pretty happy cat now.

  117. 117

    Watched the president on MSNBC. He’s truly feeling it. I am really hoping Democrats all over the country are too.

  118. 118
    gbear says:

    @Linda Featheringill: Yesterday was senior discount day at Walgreens and I got 37% off of stuff I needed anyway (laudry soap, birthday cards, cookies), so it all works out…

  119. 119
    handy says:

    Poor SC, they had big plans and dreams coming into 2012. Now they are 4-3 in conference. My keyboard is now wet from all my crocodile tears.

  120. 120
    sfinny says:

    @gbear: That sounds like pretty amazing progress. My rescue cat still runs under the bed if he hears voices in the apartment building’s hallway, and it has been almost nine years. Not to mention his reaction if he sees another cat through the window.

  121. 121
    Cacti says:

    As we wind down to the big day, I’m no longer anxious about a win. I’m hoping the POTUS really runs up the EV count on Mittens.

    Defeating Obama was their unifying cause for the past 4 years. So, I want the GOP’s loss to be by a big enough margin that there’s no doubt they were rejected by the American people.

    I want them demoralized and in disarray, so that they start turning on each other.

    And that Chris Rock video is teh awesome.

  122. 122
    Redshift says:

    @Spaghetti Lee: It’s a tricky thing. It certainly seems to be true that being a white male is a necessary precondition for the kind of derangement we’re seeing, but it’s equally true that it isn’t the cause, because such a large portion of us haven’t become deranged. That makes talking about it realistically more difficult.

  123. 123
    mainmati says:

    I am a white male. I know a lot of white males (okay they live in the East Coast but they are a wide variety of white males). None of them like Rmoney; all are going to or already going to vote for Obama. So, we need to be more specific about who all these white males are that hate Pres. Obama; I suspect they live in a number of well-known southern and midwestern states rather than just everywhere.

  124. 124
    Redshift says:

    OMG! I just saw a post from my friend who has voted Democratic in the past, but voted for McCain and has been increasingly wingnutty since (on Facebook, he posted about “you didn’t build that,” he opined that Ohio voters would “regret it” if they voted to overturn the law abolishing public employee union rights, and he had some bizarre thing further back that seemed to be parroting a wingnut line equating progressive taxation with Zimbabwe, etc.) He’s voting for Obama!

    Apparently the deal-breaker was hiding his tax returns. Not what might be in them, but that he didn’t have the guts to stand up for what he did, and how his policy proposals would benefit people like him.

    Will wonders never cease…

  125. 125
    Redshift says:

    @mainmati: I suspect that’s too much of a generalization, too. There are Limbaugh listeners all over the country. I agree that more of them live in those areas, but some of them live everywhere else, too.

  126. 126
    Elmo says:

    @redshirt:
    Yikes, that is early. How far north are you?

  127. 127
    Rick Santorum's Leaky Faucet says:

    Introvert canvassing for the first time tomorrow. What do I wear? What if my awkwardness single-handedly loses the election for Obama? Ha! The ridiculousness of seeing that written out makes me feel better.

    In all seriousness, this is my concern. I am great at arguing in writing, but if challenged in person,
    I come off as a fool. I don’t want to needlessly alienate people by looking like an Obot

  128. 128
  129. 129
    eemom says:

    @Redshift:

    Keam defeated my neighbor — another pillar of the local Dem community — in the 2009 primary. He (Keam) is also a friend of a very old friend and colleague of mine who is active in the Asian bar community.

    Small world again, eh?

  130. 130
    gbear says:

    @sfinny: I was amazed last night when we all slept on the bed together for a while. That was a very surprising first.

  131. 131
    Old Dan and Little Ann says:

    I’m Irish and most of my friends think I am a dirty hippy liberal. I never bring up politics with any of them ever, but when they say something stupid I let them know it.

  132. 132
    suzanne says:

    @Spaghetti Lee:

    But at a certain level of this stuff , when you’re ignoring/mocking someone’s opinions based mostly on their race, haven’t you kind of cycled back around to racism? Judging an individual’s ideas based on their race more than who they are as a person?

    The best way I’ve heard it explained was essentially thus: Racism isn’t just prejudice, but is prejudice plus power. Judging an individual’s ideas on the basis of race would be prejudiced, if the individual was white, but racist if the individual was black, as the inescapable social structure surrounding the discussion is biased in favor of the white individual. However, if those were white people saying that to you, I don’t know WTF.
    I agree with your larger point regarding valuing people as individuals, and I agree that it’s important to remember that each person is the sum of countless experiences within an enormous overarching social umbrella. Having said that, I’ll admit that I tend to get pretty pissed when most dudes try to talk about sexism and gender issues, because they often say stupid shit totally unaware that they are saying stupid shit within a social framework that taught them that their stupid shit was awesome and valuable and gave them authority. So I can be sympathetic when other-than-white people want white people to STFU.
    As an aside: white people who say “I don’t see race” fucking irritate the living shit out of me.

  133. 133
    Geoduck says:

    @Redshift:

    I suspect that’s too much of a generalization, too. There are Limbaugh listeners all over the country. I agree that more of them live in those areas, but some of them live everywhere else, too.

    Yeah. Even the most feverishly unskewed polls didn’t try to claim that Romney has any chance of winning here in Washington state, but east of the Cascades, the map pretty much turns blood red. The Seattle metroplex simply swamps the drysiders.

  134. 134
    Cacti says:

    Many of my white male friends and family are also Mormons. So there’s a double dose of tribal identity at work.

  135. 135
    Another Halocene Human says:

    @freelancer (iPhone): “Don’t worry Canada. We aren’t ALL like this, only half of us are!”

    I don’t know how that’s suppose to calm their fears.

    The other half will run out of battery on their hoverrounds before they breach the border.

  136. 136

    @Another Halocene Human:
    A liberal is just a conservative with a preexisting condition.

  137. 137
    Maude says:

    @AkaDad:
    Keira knightly(R) is lying to you again. Vote Obama.

  138. 138
    priscianusjr says:

    @mainmati:

    I know a lot of white males (okay they live in the East Coast but they are a wide variety of white males). None of them like Rmoney; all are going to or already going to vote for Obama. So, we need to be more specific about who all these white males are that hate Pres. Obama; I suspect they live in a number of well-known southern and midwestern states rather than just everywhere.

    You’re making a very important point. This thing that “whites” full stop are largely against Obama is true for the red states. In the blue states, it’s close to or at the normal D/R split. Joan Walsh has an excellent piece on this.
    http://www.salon.com/2012/10/2.....white_men/

  139. 139
    Another Halocene Human says:

    @EconWatcher: What’s wrong with my kind? I really don’t know.

    I really thought having a Black president would kind of demystify the whole thing (the whole white people not in charge of everything ever thing) and reduce the fear factor but sadly, no.

    Why do people keep falling for this notion that just because someone is part of your “group” that you can trust them? I could see falling for trusting someone who appears to share your values and goals (I guess like the super-lefties who got caught up in “si, se puede” and were pissed after the election to discover they’d voted for a Democrat). I kind of feel sorry for Christians who go to those churches and get scammed by people looking for trusting marks just like them. But, dude, just because someone shares your accent or your gender or your sexual orientation or was born in the same church or likes the same haircut, do you really think that feeling of “brotherhood” over some superficial shit is going to translate into them legislating you special goodies? Gah.

  140. 140
    Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason says:

    @efgoldman:

    I am an old angry white male. I would sooner move to Pyongyang than vote for Mittster or any other of today’s GOBP.

    Agreed. I’m another old bald fat white guy. I’ve been a DFH since the 1964 mock election in Junior High when I voted for the guy from the Militant Worker’s Party. Romney and the Teahadis can DIAF. I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK!!

  141. 141
    Rick Santorum's Leaky Faucet says:

    @priscianusjr: White Cuban from Miami here, I’m an Obot all the way. So is my best friend, who is also Cuban (but would not look out of place in a Revolutionary Guard uniform). The rest of “my people” that I know are Rmoney all the way. Oh well. Just pointing out that there are a handful of us Miami Cubans who are liberals.

  142. 142
    Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason says:

    @Ruckus: No worries now. Go door-to-door on Election Day. There are no conservatives left in the walk list. GOTV!!

  143. 143
    auntieeminaz says:

    @gbear: He’s gorgeous!

  144. 144
    Another Halocene Human says:

    @JPL: Preznint’s got his swagger back. Hells, yeah.

  145. 145
    Another Halocene Human says:

    @handy: Maybe this whole “god-like coach” stuff is overblown.

    Nahhh.

  146. 146
    Democrat Partisan Asshole says:

    How does it feel, guys? You do everything you can for Obama and people say you’re a racist idiot because you’re white and you’re male. Doesn’t feel good, does it?

    @Linda Featheringill: Totally fine by me. I’m still white and male, and we white males still fucking run everything in this country, so people can say whatever they want. Doesn’t matter a bit. And I’m not going to stop beating on the olds who keep voting for Romney in overwhelming numbers, because they’re idiots.

  147. 147
    Not Sure says:

    Kenan Thompson is funny as hell, and I’ve been a fan since he was on Nickelodeon, but he’ll never be Chris Rock funny. I was laughing so hard, my wife was wondering what the hell it was I was laughing so hard at. SNL has been over for at least ten minutes.

  148. 148
    Another Halocene Human says:

    @priscianusjr: Yeah, but there are a lot of white males among those R’s in blue states. And they have issues voting for women, for example.

    We don’t have to hand-wring about why the South has so much bigger white gaps. Duh. Whole libraries are filled with history books and essays about that particular phenomenon.

    What I think is more the issue here is why there are so many white males (and some white females too) around the country who are not uber-rich like Romney nor could ever hope to be, yet who are going to vote for him this year.

    To be fair, Obama’s race is probably only responsible for a few percentage points. The rest is “any Democrat”. On the other hand, the Democratic Party is associated with affirmative action, civil rights, HUD, basically anything that levels the playing field. So we can say “They hate any Dmeocrat” but we’d be papering over the reason why. I’m sorry but “Carter was a whiny malaise loser” absolutely cannot explain all of that.

    I think it is white supremacy, and once you’ve accepted that poisonous outlook then white males, especially those who did not complete graduate degrees (much less likely to vote Republican) and who therefore have very specialized, lucrative skills, have the most to lose. Married white women depending on hubby’s income seem to see it the same way. And this loss is explicitly economic (though for the craziest of the crazies it does seem to be spiritual).

    That there are more white supremacists concentrated in the South and higher percentages of them in spread-out rural areas ought to really surprise no one.

  149. 149
    Another Halocene Human says:

    @Democrat Partisan Asshole: Aren’t olds going to skew greedy-bastard-party anyway because the poor die young?

  150. 150
    LD50 says:

    @Linda Featheringill:

    How does it feel, guys? You do everything you can for Obama and people say you’re a racist idiot because you’re white and you’re male. Doesn’t feel good, does it?

    For whatever reason, it doesn’t bother me. If anyone I met were to make that generalization about me, I would set them straight right away. But frankly I AM ashamed that so many people of my age, gender and skin color vote and think like such retards.

    What’s kind of amusing is going out of the country, and having other people notice that you’re American, and SEEING them get a worried look about what kind of crazy shit you believe. When you let them know you violate the stereotypes they have, their relief is amusing to watch.

  151. 151
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Democrat Partisan Asshole: This is pretty much how I feel. White dudes are ridiculous, responsible for virtually everythind that has ever happened in American politics, and need to wake the fuck up. And I say that as a 40-year-old white dude. Luckily there are fewer and fewer of us, relatively speaking, with each passing year.

  152. 152
    fuckwit says:

    I’ve said this before.

    If you’re female, you’re better off if Obama gets re-elected.

    If you’re middle-class, or want to be, you’re better off if Obama gets re-elected.

    If you have any kind of pre-existing condition, or any hopes to ever start a business or even change jobs, or expect ever to get ill, you’re better off if Obama gets re-elected.

    If you’re Latino, or an immigrant from anywhere, or the children of one, you’re better off if OBama gets re-elected.

    If you’re not christian (or mormon?), you’re better off if Obama gets re-elected.

    If you’re a senior citizen, or you expect to be one someday, you’re better off if Obama gets re-elected.

    I mean, what the fuck? Who is left really? Rich white christian men. That is the only group who should be voting for RMoney. I’ll give them that– he’s their man, all the way.

    Anyone else who votes for him, is doing severe damage to themselves, either out of ignorance, or, in the case of the teabaggers, out of an outright blind nihilism that just confounds me.

  153. 153
    the Conster says:

    I have to admit that over the past several months I’ve been looking at white men my age and older very, very differently than I ever have. I’m making assumptions about them that I never would have a year ago along the lines that the likelihood that they’re pathetic racist assholes is well over 50%, and I’ve gotten so sick of angry white men, I can’t stand it any more. I’m picking fights about it now, because I want angry white men to hear from a white woman their age how fed up I am with them and their endless privileged bullshit. They’ve been at the controls for the entirety of the history of western civilization, and they’re angry? Fuck that noise.

  154. 154
    Gwangung says:

    @Spaghetti Lee: My feeling is that we are so polarized on some issues, with race being one of them, we cannot have substantive discussion on issues unless ALL parties take massive efforts to npack all their assumptions and to take the time e to really listen to other people. For example on this issue of Cloud Atlas, I think there are certainly issues of privilege involved, but it is tied to pre existing racist practices that are being still maintained and defended by even sympathetic power wielders; however, for all too many people this gets subbed into a generalized “white people being bad” roar.

    As for Tuesday in Seattle, I might have the urge to show up (though I might have a problem recognizing folks…..Swiss cheese memory, I’m afraid…)

  155. 155
    Gwangung says:

    @fuckwit:

    I mean, what the fuck? Who is left really?

    Well, Asians.

    On the other hand, the women are considered sex objects and the men as effeminate ineffectual wimps by Republican alpha males so I guess we all get dumped in the women column anyway and get covered.

  156. 156
    swbarnes2 says:

    @Spaghetti Lee:

    I got into an argument online (bad start, I know) over whether the race-altering makeup in Cloud Atlas was itself racist. I said no, because I thought there had to be some negative intent for something to be racist,

    Do you see what you just did there? Your definition just ignores how non-white people feel about things, and instead, it’s all about what white people are thinking. Do you see how that’s problematic?

    Do you see why your non-white people hear you say that and conclude “This guy doesn’t have a handle on how things are for non-white people”?

  157. 157
    FDRLincoln says:

    Let’s see…

    I’m 44, white, middle class but struggling financially, and I live in a red state. I’m heterosexual and married.

    And I’m voting for Obama. Already have actually.

    Fuck off Republican punks.

  158. 158
    West of the Rockies (formerly Frank W.) says:

    @FlipYrWhig: You said: “White dudes are ridiculous, responsible for virtually everythind that has ever happened in American politics, and need to wake the fuck up. And I say that as a 40-year-old white dude. Luckily there are fewer and fewer of us, relatively speaking, with each passing year.”

    I can’t imagine you’d say, “Black dudes are ridiculous…” or “Asian women are ridiculous…”

    Flip, there are clearly plenty of white idiots, but aren’t you painting things with too broad a brush? If, indeed, Romney gets 65% of the white male vote, that still means that a hair over a third of white males aren’t ridiculous. Your last sentence that I quote above is also a bit curious to me… Would you ever say, “Thankfully, there are fewer and fewer (Jews, lesbians, blacks, Mexicans)… with each passing year”?

    Doesn’t reductionist language ultimately diminish the dialogue? I’m not trying to pick a fight, but do you see my point?

  159. 159
    Spaghetti Lee says:

    @swbarnes2:

    See this is what I was talking about. By what definition is stating my own opinion “ignoring” everyone else’s? I’m not ignoring anything. I’m just saying what I think about the issue. And I’m certainly not claiming to speak for “white people.” That’s a ridiculous notion. Two opinions can exist at the same time. Mine doesn’t cancel others out.

    I’m totally willing to go with the idea that, being a white middle-class American, I have blind spots when it comes to racism and bigotry. But it seems to me that (and you’re not the first person to respond like this) if the mere act of having an opinion and saying it is offensive, then why should I bother even joining the debate? If I’m just going to be yelled at no matter what I say and accused of ignoring the issue if I say nothing? That’s how I feel whenever I talk about this stuff.

    (And the people getting on my case were mostly white, for the record.)

  160. 160
    Spaghetti Lee says:

    @swbarnes2:

    Especially given that I said what the other side was arguing. Looking back I could have elaborated more, but FFS, it’s not like I’m pretending my opinion is the only right answer.

  161. 161
    Ruckus says:

    @the Conster:
    You have an extremely valid point. Except that a lot of old white males have the pretense of of privilege because they are old white males, except they don’t make anything of it. They are not racist, or misogynistic, or homophobic, or what ever. They may, and that is a may, gain advantage because the world is still in their favor but they don’t look for it or try to take that advantage. IOW they act like and are human and take all other humans at the same value. I call it trying to be, not trying to take. An example of a taker would be zomney. That’s all he knows. That’s all he wants to know. That’s all he will ever be, a taker. An old, white, male, taker. Fortunately not all of us old white males are asshole takers.

    Ruckus + some tequila

  162. 162
    TerryC says:

    @efgoldman: me2, born in the first half of the last century and quite pale. The old white guys voting for Romney, they’re the kids we went to school, even college with, who just hated every second that they were forced to try to learn.

  163. 163
    Ron says:

    @efgoldman: Sorry but “I’m a white Male and I hate Romney” has nothing to do with the data that says that the majority of white males support him. When people say “Demographic group X supports Y” it means “the majority of the people in demographic X support Y”. It’s not a generalization, it’s a statistical observation.

  164. 164
    Lojasmo says:

    @gbear:

    Senior white guy here. Complete Obot. Please let me vote.

    Mark Ritchie has your back.

  165. 165
    Beauzeaux says:

    @efgoldman: Thank you. My hubby and I are old, angry white people. We could never ever in a million years vote for any of the republican nominees in the last 50 years. (I might have considered Eisenhower but I was ten years old at the time.)

  166. 166
    Original Lee says:

    @Redshift: A couple of my FB friends who are Vietnam vets and have always voted Republican are (apparently) voting Obama – their break point was Benghazi and Mitt’s shameless attempt to politicize the event while it was going down.

    May there be many more of these stories!

Comments are closed.