Open Thread: Romney vs. Sandy vs. NYC


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Timothy Egan, in the NYTimes, “Nature Votes Last“:

… Climate change is to the Republican base what leprosy once was to healthy humans — untouchable and unmentionable. Their party is financed by people whose fortunes are dependent upon denying that humans have caused the earth’s weather patterns to change for the worse.

At the same time, Republicans have spent the last year trying to win an argument about the role of government as a helping hand. By now, most people know that Mitt Romney, in his base-pandering mode during the primaries, made the federal disaster agency FEMA sound like a costly nuisance, better off orphaned to the states or the private sector.

His party can get away with fact-denial — in global warming’s case — and win cable-television arguments about FEMA, so long as something like a major news event, e.g., reality, does not shatter the picture. That’s where the storm upset a somewhat predictable race….

Also in the NYTimes, business journalist Joe Nocera looks at planning for a future where “once in a generation” storms are a lot more common:

…That fewer than 50 New Yorkers died in the storm is a testament to what New York has become very good at: evacuating. In 2006, Mayor Michael Bloomberg pushed the city’s Office of Emergency Management to develop a worst-case scenario evacuation plan; it has been the game plan ever since. As Sandy approached, the city told residents of the most flood-prone areas to leave, and readied its first responders. Incredibly, a large coastal neighborhood called Breezy Point in Queens burned to the ground with no one being seriously hurt. Most of them had left.

What New York is not so good at is preventing big storms from exacting an enormous toll on infrastructure, buildings and businesses. In the case of Sandy, the damage to New York City is estimated to be as much as $17 billion. Cities like London, Amsterdam — and, yes, Providence — have built systems to minimize the damage even Category 3 storms can cause. But not New York.

Part of the reason is that the cost of any such system would run into the billions of dollars. But another reason is that many environmentalists are firmly opposed to a big public-works project, fearing that it would give people a false sense of security about the problems posed by climate change. They prefer taking smaller steps, like raising the height of subway grates to keep water out of the subway tunnels. Bloomberg has embraced this approach…

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174 replies
  1. 1
    Robin G. says:

    I wonder how much terminal property damage there is in Manhattan. What will HAVE to be replaced, when all is said and done?

  2. 2
    SectarianSofa says:

    I am amazed that the US Military has been close to being called Socializt sympathizers over their efforts on greener/more efficient energy use, and their planning which takes into account scientific consensus on things like climate change….

  3. 3
    Punchy says:

    How are they preventing price gouging on things like cranes, tow trucks, and such….and who pays for that, the boat/car owner or the municipality?

  4. 4
    Mnemosyne says:

    But another reason is that many environmentalists are firmly opposed to a big public-works project, fearing that it would give people a false sense of security about the problems posed by climate change.

    Assuming this is true, that’s morally indefensible. More people should die so they’ll take climate change seriously enough? WTF?

  5. 5
    Robin G. says:

    @Mnemosyne: The firebaggers of the science world.

  6. 6
    SectarianSofa says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Assuming this is true, that’s morally indefensible. More people should die so they’ll take climate change seriously enough? WTF?

    It’s “the math”. At least accountants/actuaries/et al. take it seriously.

  7. 7
    RaflW says:

    Little bit of awesome:

    Vikings punter and social justice badass Chris Kluwe is reading Atlas Shrugged on the team plane today and live tweeting.

    @ChrisWarcraft Ugh, 2 chapters in and I already feel slightly ill. So many stereotypes and cariciatures on both sides. #labelsareasignoflaziness

  8. 8
    Vlad on the Tracks says:

    But another reason is that many environmentalists are firmly opposed to a big public-works project, fearing that it would give people a false sense of security about the problems posed by climate change.

    Um . . . those are some influential environmentalists, dictating New York Goddamn City’s disaster plans.

    Could we get quotes from (a) any environmentalist anywhere playing this kind of 11-dimensional chess in NYC (b) any NYC official who based disaster policy on person (a)’s 11-dimensional chess? KTHXBAI.

  9. 9
    PeakVT says:

    @Mnemosyne: The argument is that if more floodwalls and the like are built now in places like NYC, it is likely is that even more people will die in the future someplace else. The sad truth is that people someplace else will probably die due to Americans’ fossil fuel consumption whether or not floodwalls get built.

    However, I suspect Nocera has no proof that environmentalists have actually stopped a major flood protection project, and is just engaging in gratuitous hippie punching.

  10. 10
    lamh35 says:

    a little something for the horn dogs of BJ. Katy Perry opened for POTUS in WI today. check out her dress

    http://twitter.com/psddluva4ev.....08/photo/1

  11. 11
    Mark S. says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    He doesn’t back up that assertion at all. I think it’s “Both sides do it!”

  12. 12
    Nutella says:

    Voted early today in Chicago. Had to wait in line for an hour. Probably shouldn’t have waited till Saturday but it’s done now.

  13. 13
    JGabriel says:

    __
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    Joe Nocera via Anne Laurie @ Top:

    What New York is not so good at is preventing big storms from exacting an enormous toll on infrastructure, buildings and businesses. In the case of Sandy, the damage to New York City is estimated to be as much as $17 billion. Cities like London, Amsterdam — and, yes, Providence — have built systems to minimize the damage even Category 3 storms can cause. But not New York.
    __
    Part of the reason is that the cost of any such system would run into the billions of dollars.

    As does the damage from a single bad storm like Sandy. It would probably be a hell of a lot cheaper than $17 billion to, for instance, build seawalls at the Throg’s Neck Bridge, the Verrazano Bridge, and between Staten Island & Perth Amboy, just for a start.

    .

  14. 14
    katie5 says:

    Danger, danger, Will Robinson. With that swipe at environmentalists, Nocera is engaging in a “both sides do it” argument for spreading the blame around. This allows him to appear above politics as he neutrally presents the arguments. He presents no evidence for this claim about environmentalists.

  15. 15
    pseudonymous in nc says:

    Or, The Onion: “Nation Suddenly Realizes This Just Going To Be A Thing That Happens From Now On”.

    I don’t know where Nocera is finding his straw-hippies; there’s a wider argument that there is no techno-wizbang solution, but that doesn’t preclude mitigation for hugely dense populations.

  16. 16

    @Robin G.: And you take Nocera’s word as gospel? Maybe you’re the dumb one. Somehow I doubt this is their approach. After all, look at how many times climate change was mentioned during the just completed series of presidential debates.

  17. 17
    lamh35 says:

    “@PeterHambyCNN: Obama campaign says they have made 125,646,479 voter contacts this cycle. Team Romney has made 50 million.”

  18. 18

    @katie5: Yes .. maybe Robin G. needs to pay more attention.

  19. 19
    lamh35 says:

    “Obama camp says their ground game focused on quality, not quantity: no robo-calls. Cites 126 million in-person voter contacts. “(https://twitter.com/devindwyer/status/264839467385356288

  20. 20
    Kane says:

    TeamObama is about to end the political career of Mitt Romney once and for all. And in the process, they have exposed Paul Ryan as an extremist and effectively ended his media-created myth of being a deficit hawk. And also too, Obama has embraced Chris Christie, forever putting unbearable Obama cooties on him.

    It’s a threefer. They have taken out the Republican nominee and successfully ended any future presidential aspirations for what were considered to be two of the GOP’s rising stars in Ryan and Christie. Who do they have to offer for 2016? Jeb? Marco? Good luck with that.

  21. 21
    JGabriel says:

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    Robin G.:

    I wonder how much terminal property damage there is in Manhattan. What will HAVE to be replaced, when all is said and done?

    In Manhattan’s tight confines, there is very little room for extraneous infrastructure. Pretty much any and all infrastructure that’s damaged will HAVE to be replaced (or fixed).

    .

  22. 22
    lamh35 says:

    OFA Memo says campaign has registered 1,792,261 voters in key battleground states (https://twitter.com/samsteinhp/status/264833425977008129)

  23. 23
    Reason says:

    So Chuck Todd, not wanting to give up the horserace narrative, said that sure their poll of Ohio showed Obama up six, but if party ID is tightened he is only up three ergo OMG TOSSUP!

    Village wanker.

  24. 24
    Keith says:

    It’s funny to hear folks like Rove try to blame Romney losing on Sandy, when if the shoe was on the other foot, we’d all be hearing from Jim DeMint and Erik Erikson that this is God wanting Romney to win.

  25. 25
    lamh35 says:

    Sam Stein (@samsteinhp)
    11/3/12, 4:12 PM
    Messina says they have commitments from volunteers to do 700,000 shifts for GOTV from now till election

  26. 26
    mai naem says:

    That is a very kool dress on Katy Perry. Also too, Mark Cuban offered The Donald a million bucks to shave his head. Hee hee. I love it.

  27. 27
    lamh35 says:

    here is the link to the OfA memo detailing some of the stats on the OfA GOTV stats. If Obama wins, Dems will be fighting to get their hands on the brain trust info at OfA…damn.

    https://secure.assets.bostatic.com/pdfs/gotv/113Memo.pdf

  28. 28
    MikeJ says:

    @lamh35: Didja see the ballot dress from last week?

  29. 29
    MikeJ says:

    @lamh35: Didja see the ballot dress from last week?

  30. 30

    @lamh35:

    FWIW here in NC I have been getting robo call after robo call from both the Romney campaign and the RNC. All of them were bullshit “did you know that Obama is attacking religious freedom?” blah blah blah which is when I hang up. On the other hand the calls I have been getting from OFA have been real hoomins, last one was a nice lady from Asheville, she said “is your household leaning towards Obama?” I replied “no ma’am our household is 100% for Obama” she laughed and thanked me.

  31. 31
    PsiFighter37 says:

    Round 3 of canvassing in Dayton underway. Had a discussion with a 23-year old mother about taxes. I pointed out Obama lowered her taxes and Mitt Romney will raise hers. Didn’t fully sway, but I hope the direct outreach helps change her mind and keep her in our team.

  32. 32
    Another Halocene Human says:

    @Mnemosyne: I doubt this take on things is the most relevant point.

    Much more difficult to build the coalition to get a big project like that built in NYS. Look at what shenanigans go on with public transit dollars, just for fucking starters.

    Amsterdam is in a country that you could maybe compare to NYS without Upstate. Plus their vulnerability is drilled into their consciousness.

    Scholastic News told us that NYC would be drowning due to Global Warming back in 1989, but did anyone listen? //

  33. 33
    Baud says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt:

    I have been getting robo call after robo call from both the Romney campaign and the RNC. …. On the other hand the calls I have been getting from OFA have been real hoomins,

    Robots for Romney – humans for Obama…

    Seems about right.

  34. 34
    katie5 says:

    @Keith: It’s worse than that. It’s actually Romney losing to the godless homosexuals who caused Hurricane Sandy.

  35. 35
    IowaOldLady says:

    @Another Halocene Human: Maybe there’s something prophetic in NYC originally being called New Amsterdam.

  36. 36
    lamh35 says:

    seriously y’all should read that memo I posted. Someone said it should strike fear in the hearts of Romney & Rove. and if this stas are correct then DAMN!!! they should be scared if any other Dem pol got their hands on OfA’s list

  37. 37
    Another Halocene Human says:

    @katie5: Oh, the Northeast is littered with straw-being environmentalists with no scientific training–which is what makes them so damn annoying. But to pretend that such beings (could he dredge them up) have any political relevance is mendacity of the first order.

  38. 38
    dnfree says:

    Completely off-topic, but do you know how many Romney ads appear on your site when I visit it? I love it, because in the first place it costs them money, and in the second place, it makes me wonder how good they are at deciding where to advertise!

  39. 39
    piratedan says:

    fyi from GOS

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/.....p-40-in-AZ

    which is what overreach buys you and could actually put AZ into a pale blue cast and possibly put Carmona into Office over Flake.

  40. 40
    mainmati says:

    @Robin G.: Whole neighborhoods in Queens, Staten Island and Hoboken, NJ for starts. Some of the buildings in Lower Manhattan may need major structural repairs. The economic damage is going to be HUGE!

  41. 41
    gwangung says:

    @lamh35: Since I think Axelrod has said that this is his last campaign, I think the odds are good that this will be passed on to the right people….

  42. 42
    Anne Laurie says:

    @Mnemosyne: The argument, as I understand it, is that there were no fatalities at Breezy Point because people took the evacuation order seriously and got the heck out of there in advance. But if “their taxes” had just been used to build multi-billion-dollar seawalls, the temptation for lazy cynical couch potato Americans would have been to ignore the warnings, refuse to evacuate, and then die horribly (risk the lives of first responders) when those seawalls turned out to be less that 100% effective. After which, their heirs would sue everyone from Tha Gubmint to the guy whose catering truck served lunch to the seawall-construction crew, because someone had to be responsible and it sure wasn’t them!

    Think of it as a giant multiplayer version of the Four-Wheel-Drive Paradox. Lots of idiots end up crashing, and a portion of them dying/killing other people, because they drive too fast for road conditions (or drive when they shouldn’t be on the road at all) because having four wheel drive makes them feel “safe”. Giant public-works safety projects spread the benefits over a much wider population, while increasing the possible cost of catastrophic failure.

    Mayor Bloomberg is looking at the thankless task of persuading hundreds of agencies to spend millions of dollars preparing for an intricate series of interlocked projects. And when those projects are eventually approved, carrying them out will be an enormous expensive inconvenience, and take years to finish. Even assuming there are no miscalculations, no giant corruption scandals, and a Sandy-class storm that happens just a few days after the final dedication, institutional memory is such that nobody is going to say “Thank heavens Mayor Mike had such forethought!” But every commuter, commentor, and general wisenheimer from coast to coast is going to needle him non-stop for the next many years every time a prospective contractor is caught taking a department sub-sub-second-assistant to lunch, or when a construction glitch causes a traffic jam that makes several hundred Very Important People late for work. Maybe you would have the moral fortitude and vision to ignore such petty calculations, but then yours is not the kind of personality that usually ends up in charge of a city like Ankh-Morpork… I mean, New York! :)

  43. 43
    Robin G. says:

    @Phil Perspective: *eyeroll* If it’s bullshit, it’s bullshit. I certainly hope it is. But it also sounds like firebagger talk. The climate change folks have a few of those too. Regardless, I’m sure they’re not a substantial representation of the whole.

  44. 44
    the Conster says:

    @lamh35:

    Now we’ll know who to round up for the FEMA re-education camps. Woo hoo!

  45. 45
    Another Halocene Human says:

    @lamh35: I hope we get a really good candidate next time. NOT CUOMO. I might even go for Deval Fucking Patrick although he has entirely too much eau de Clinton on him for me.

    I take a lesson from the last 20 years: no more privileged white dudes like Gore and Kerry. They are SHIT campaigners, even if their hearts are in the right place. And we need excellent campaigners, people who can convince poor, abused people to get off their ass and get past their disappointment to vote. Not someone who’s out of touch and thinks bare knuckle politics is beneath them.

    Some of the DNC’s best spokespersons have been women who grew up poor. Like Karen Finney. She fucking gets it.

    I’m looking for someone who grew up poor or lower middle class but had a strong family structure (ie, not a Billy Boy who uses politics to avoid working out his deep-seated issues, because we cannot fucking afford fuckups in our standard-bearers). Someone who shows great intelligence but a certain degree of caution (not a Weiner, who takes too many damn risks and is addicted to adrenaline/testosterone). Someone with a proven record of working for the working class and not the ruling class. (Sorry, Cory Booker.)

    So, that said, what do we know about Jean Sebelius?

  46. 46
    katie5 says:

    @Another Halocene Human: Yes to some environmentalists being non-scientific and yes to them not being given any standing in the debates of Very Serious People.

  47. 47
    Roger Moore says:

    @Keith:
    The answer should be obvious. They know that God can’t possibly want Obama to win, so the possibility that Sandy is a divine intervention in the campaign is never even thought of, much less spoken. More importantly, they know damn well that their claims of inevitable Romney victory have been a crock from the get go, and Sandy provides a convenient last minute excuse for why he won’t. The dog storm ate my homework margin of victory.

  48. 48
    General Stuck says:

    My name is General Stuck and I approved this message.

  49. 49
    Jeremy says:

    I have to disagree with some who say that the super pacs made this race close. Look Romney was not winning from the start if anyone took the time to study the electoral college. The media has used conservative leaning polls to try to paint the horse race narrative but this was never a horse race.

    The super pacs failed to elect some hard core tea partiers in the senate in 2010 and they will fail big time in 2012. The problem with the GOP is that they have become radical, they don’t have a strong message for a 21st century America, and despite raising so much money Obama and the dem allies have raised about the same amount as Romney and the republican allies, and they have the better message.

  50. 50
    Another Halocene Human says:

    @PeakVT: The argument is that if more floodwalls and the like are built now in places like NYC, it is likely is that even more people will die in the future someplace else. The sad truth is that people someplace else will probably die due to Americans’ fossil fuel consumption whether or not floodwalls get built.

    I’ve heard some ominous stuff about new concrete contributing to CO2 production–can anyone chime in on that?

  51. 51
    Mino says:

    In Redstate Texas I’ve been robopolled thrice by Romney. I’ve been a registered Dem since 1968. And the last call came after I had voted. It’s just some Republican welfare, if you ask me.

  52. 52
    Another Halocene Human says:

    @katie5: Very Serious People are concerned about the view from their exclusive beachfront island property.

  53. 53
    Jeremy says:

    I think the republicans were more efficient with there money and messaging prior to Citizens united. GOP operatives are all about the money and they will continue to sucker in these GOP billionaires so they can become rich themselves. With spending limits you have to be more efficient with your money.

  54. 54
    lamh35 says:

    alright, where did this John Kerry come from?

    RT“@JohnKerry: was surprised to run into Mitt this afternoon in Sylvania, OH http://twitter.yfrog.com/odlldsej ””

  55. 55
    Baud says:

    @Jeremy:

    I agree with those who predict that the superPACs will do their greatest damage in less prominent races, like Congress and state races.

  56. 56
    Another Halocene Human says:

    @Mino: The sad thing is, robocall, so they’re not even hiring barely-above-minimum-wage call center slaves I mean totally not exploited free ‘Murcans.

    Not even snarking, as North Central Florida has a number of call centers and plenty of people I know have worked there when money got tight. (Pro-tip: it is every bit as soul-crushing as you would imagine.)

  57. 57
    mainmati says:

    @JGabriel: Note that Providence, RI’s seawall was built in the early ’60s back when confident America built infrastructure. Today, we live in the era of total Congressional failure mainly on the part of the GOP and investing in any kind of infrastructure gives them and their thuggish 1% backers a huge butthurt. Pathetic.

  58. 58
    leinie says:

    @RaflW: Kluwe is pretty awesome. As a Vikings fan I’d prefer to see him on the field less, but love love love his twitter feed, how he expresses himself, and how he is one of the good guys.

    Sad OT news – came home yesterday to find my cat Squeaker had died while we were at work. Found him on the bedroom floor, and he had thrown up blood. Don’t know what happened, but am terrified that someone poisoned him, and now my other cats are in danger. I know, don’t let them out, but I can’t always keep them in, they WANT to be out.

    Oh, and Romney? The last I see of him can’t happen too soon. As a recovered Mormon, he just freaks me the fuck out, he’s so steeped in the patriarchal bullshit of that religion. Plus, he’s just damned unpleasant and not very bright. He’s really wrong for America.

  59. 59
    Linda Featheringill says:

    @lamh35:

    Thanks for posting that memo. I copied it onto my computer so I can read it more carefully at my leisure.

    But the numbers! Mein Gott!

  60. 60
    Another Halocene Human says:

    @Jeremy: With spending limits you have to be more efficient with your money.

    It was not so much the spending limits as the control party operatives (in smoky back quiet rooms) had over the message and how the money was spent.

    Job creators have giant egos, hence each gets his own SuperPAC to push his own uniquely demented message. For example, those WhoseYerDaddy CDs were shown to be an own-goal in focus groups but some putz spent millions to mail them out anyway.

  61. 61

    @Mnemosyne:
    James Wolcott wrote a column around the Katrina event explaining that the storm was revenge by Nature for not taking global warming seriously.

    I have HATED Wolcott ever since.

  62. 62
    David Koch says:

    the polling-truthers on PPP’s twitter feed are hilarious

  63. 63
    Another Halocene Human says:

    @leinie: As a recovered Mormon, he just freaks me the fuck out, he’s so steeped in the patriarchal bullshit of that religion.

    Agreed. His whole tirade about early (forced?) marriages preventing gun violence was, I believe, the real Mitt Romney. It was neither a pandering moment, nor FOX bubblespeak. It finally explained his connection to Mormonism and why he is so involved. He has completely bought into this very Mormon notion of the primacy of marriage in human affairs and is an evangelist to this point. It’s based on nothing, but there you have it.

    Scary.

  64. 64
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @Mnemosyne: no, the point isn’t to kill people. The point is to rebuild sustainably and take action to lower ocean levels. Sea walls eventually become bathtubs, as in NO.

  65. 65
    David Koch says:

    Ann Romney on MSNBC is almost in tears.

    Oh, let me taste your tears, Ann! Mmm, your tears are so yummy and sweet. Oh, the tears of unfathomable sadness! Mmm-yummy!

  66. 66
    PeakVT says:

    @Another Halocene Human: Concrete generates CO2 during the production of the cement component, from both calcination of limestone and from any fossil fuels burned during the process. There’s also some emissions from mining, crushing, and transport, but I think those are relatively trivial in comparison. The intertubes tells me that 5-7% of all CO2 released globally comes from cement production.

  67. 67
    marianne19 says:

    @Another Halocene Human: Think Elizabeth Warren!

  68. 68
    Roger Moore says:

    @Jeremy:

    I think the republicans were more efficient with there money and messaging prior to Citizens united.

    I think they were more efficient before the grifter takeover. The party is being colonized by parasites, and the outside groups don’t seem to be any safer. There’s obviously some overlap between the two events, but I think the whole wingnut welfare circuit has been pushing things in this direction for a while. CU just put things over the top.

  69. 69
    PeakVT says:

    @leinie: Sorry to hear about Squeaker.

  70. 70
    PreservedKillick says:

    @Bobby Thomson:

    The point is to rebuild sustainably and take action to lower ocean levels. Sea walls eventually become bathtubs, as in NO.

    Agreed on all of that except lowering sea levels. Think we’re well past that point and expect we’ll see higher sea levels and regular Irene/Sandy events for the next hundred years, at least.

    Then again, the gulf stream could stop. That would take care of the tropical storms, in New England, anyway. Just make winters sorta harsh. Summers too.

  71. 71
    Baud says:

    @leinie:

    That’s awful. I hope the others will be ok.

  72. 72
    blingee says:

    I love this miniskirt Katy Perry was wearing today at an Obama rally.
    http://obamadiary.files.wordpr......png?w=655

  73. 73
    Mr Stagger Lee says:

    John Cole must be dancing WV scores and takes 31-24 lead, Notre Dame losing 20-6 to Pitt(Who lost to Youngstown State earlier this year) Now back to your regularly scheduled posts.

  74. 74
    leinie says:

    @PeakVT: Thanks. He was a funny, moody cat we’d had about ten years. A stray who adopted us. I sent his picture to Beth for the calendar, so hopefully he’ll get immortalized there. That’s the third one I’ve lost in a year – it’s just so hard and hurts so much, but the BJ animal lovers always make me feel a little better because they understand.

  75. 75
    trollhattan says:

    @Kane:
    Willard, the Commodore 64 of politics, will be heading to where he’s surrounded and loved by those for whom he cares the most–his money. His cabana boy, Paul Ryan, is ready to become the Windows ME PC of politics.

    The battle for 2016 begins on Thursday. Oh boy.

  76. 76
    RaflW says:

    Phew. Just dashed downtown to City Hall to vouch for two absentee voters who’s lease documents weren’t sufficient to register to vote. Made it with about 3 minutes to spare.

    (Vouching may well go away if MN’s photo ID amendment passes).

  77. 77
    Joel says:

    But another reason is that many environmentalists are firmly opposed to a big public-works project, fearing that it would give people a false sense of security about the problems posed by climate change. They prefer taking smaller steps, like raising the height of subway grates to keep water out of the subway tunnels. Bloomberg has embraced this approach…

    Sounds like a copout for me. I’d like to see some references to these environmentalists. The real impediment, as always, is cost. Fiscal cost.

  78. 78
    Davis X. Machina says:

    @Bobby Thomson:

    Sea levels will continue to rise, and stay risen, mostly. Brad Plumer in the Washington Post:

    The NCAR paper estimated that if emissions go unchecked, we could warm the planet 4°C over pre-industrial levels by 2100, causing sea levels to rise between two and five feet. By contrast, if we get really proactive at cutting emissions, we could probably keep the temperature increase below 2°C. But sea levels would still rise by between 11 inches and 3.5 feet.

    Move the cities, or raise the seawalls. Plan B or Plan C. There is no plan A.

  79. 79
    David Koch says:

    Mittens nearly broke down himself on stage. I have to think his internal polls are cratering.

  80. 80
    Yutsano says:

    @leinie: Poor kitteh. It does sound like poisoning to me. Hopefully it was just him.

  81. 81
    Violet says:

    @David Koch: Just saw that. Ann knows it’s almost over and this time it’ll be over for good. Those have to be tear of joy combined with tears of frustration and annoyance because she knows she’ll be the one who has to deal with Mitt after he’s lost.

  82. 82
    Schlemizel says:

    @leinie:

    No matter what happened thats a terrible thing to come home to, I’m sorry for you.

    We never let our cats out alone either and fortunately these guys don’t seem to mind. The last male we had was always making a break for it & getting the crap kicked out of him. We would take him to the vet & get him patched up and he would lay in wait to bolt as soon as he could. One time he didn’t come back.

    I hope you are wrong about poison. Its not any real comfort but I hope it was something natural as I’d hate to think someone around there is that much of an ass

  83. 83
    David Koch says:

    @blingee:

    I love this miniskirt Katy Perry was wearing today at an Obama rally.
    http://obamadiary.files.wordpr……png?w=655

    that’s not a miniskirt, that’s sausage casing.

    Damn, she has great legs.

  84. 84
    Schlemizel says:

    @David Koch:

    His concession speech is going to be a thing of beauty and a joy forever. I may DVR it to savor some day when I am feeling down (more than usual)

  85. 85
    trollhattan says:

    @blingee:
    Even though I’m prepared to punch the car stereo if my kid makes me listen to “California Girls” one more time, I can’t hate on Katy. She’s a good campaigner for the president and hey, Katy Perry–Meatloaf. You decide.

    http://www.usmagazine.com/uplo.....y-zoom.jpg

  86. 86
    Baud says:

    @Violet:

    I’d have empathy for them if they and their party weren’t such horrible people (and if they didn’t have a non-zero chance of pulling this out on Tuesday).

  87. 87
    leinie says:

    @Violet: No sympathy whatsoever for her. None. I didn’t think it was possible to dislike someone more than I did Mitt, but Ann proved I could. She bothers me so much more than he does. Something about that women just sets my teeth on edge.

    I was raised in the Mormon church, I know all about how they teach their youth that they are special, and chosen, and were picked to live in the Latter Days and help usher in the second coming of Christ. I get she was raised to think of herself as special and superior, and the money just makes it worse, but DAMN the lack of compassion or empathy or anything remotely like the pure love of Christ that I was also taught in that woman just boggles my mind. I really, really hate her.

  88. 88
    MikeJ says:

    Since somebody pointed to PPP’s twitter:

    Every age group in WA supports gay marriage except seniors. Voters under 45 support it 57/37: http://www.publicpolicypolling.....-lead.html

    Love the hed: WA-Gov close, Obama, gay marriage, and marijuana lead

  89. 89
    trollhattan says:

    @Schlemizel:
    He will “still believe in the greatness of America.” He better not go all, shining city on the goddamn hill on us, though. Also, too, I DEMAND Tagg don a plaid jumper and take the Santorum daughter role.

  90. 90
    Schlemizel says:

    @David Koch:

    She is a bit of a looker thats for sure.

    One of my favorite sick jokes from the time she was with Brand – a pic of the two of them with the caption “So easy a caveman could do her”

    I know, I’m a bad boy for laughing at that bit I like sick jokes

  91. 91
    gbear says:

    @leinie: Really very sorry to hear about your cat. This time of year mice are starting to move in and people are putting out traps and poison for them. It may be that your cat got a poisoned mouse or got into some poison not meant for your cat. I’m so sorry for your loss.

  92. 92
    trollhattan says:

    @Baud:
    Yup. For every “you people” she harvests an extra decade in hell. She’s stewing in self-pity and a sense of entitlement.

  93. 93
    Mnemosyne says:

    @leinie:

    Oh, no! Unfortunately, there are a lot of ways for cats to be accidentally poisoned (cats are among the animals that are attracted to highly poisonous antifreeze) so it’s possible that Squeaker ate or drank something poisonous at your neighbor’s and the neighbor never even knew it.

    If you think it would make you feel better to know what it was, you can ask your vet if they can do a necropsy (the animal equivalent of an autopsy) to figure out what happened.

  94. 94
    Yutsano says:

    @David Koch:

    that’s not a miniskirt, that’s sausage casing

    What you have accomplished has been verified.

  95. 95
    David Koch says:

    @Kane:

    TeamObama is about to end the political career of Mitt Romney once and for all. And in the process, they have exposed Paul Ryan as an extremist and effectively ended his media-created myth of being a deficit hawk. And also too, Obama has embraced Chris Christie, forever putting unbearable Obama cooties on him.

    Not only that, but Barzini is dead. So is Phillip Tattaglia, Moe Green, Hyman Roth, Johnny Ola, Frank Pentangeli. Today Don Obama settled all family business.

  96. 96
    Geoduck says:

    @trollhattan:

    Willard, the Commodore 64 of politics, will be heading to where he’s surrounded and loved by those for whom he cares the most—his money.

    Hey! I resent that! Commodore 64s were at one point quite useful! (Seriously, at the time, they were the perfect way for a kid to learn how to use a computer. Simple to operate, affordable, and hard to mess up.)

  97. 97
    Mnemosyne says:

    @leinie:

    The interesting thing about Ann Romney to me is that she was not raised in the Mormon church — she converted when she was a teenager (and IIRC convinced several other family members to convert).

    And as any fallen-away Roman Catholic can tell you, converts are the freakin’ worst. They’re always convinced that they understand the church and its beliefs better than you do because they chose it and you were merely born into it and raised in it. Gah.

  98. 98
    eemom says:

    Nate Silver today: Yes, Romtron could still win — IF the state polls are all fucked. Chance of state polls all being fucked=16%. bwaaahaaahaaahaaahaaaa

  99. 99
    lamh35 says:

    More from Sam Stein at HuffPo

    The Obama campaign says it has contacted one out of every 2.5 US citiThe Obama campaign says it has contacted one out of every 2.5 US citizens http://huff.to/U80HqE zens http://huff.to/U80HqE

  100. 100
    leinie says:

    @gbear: I hadn’t thought that about the mice. That actually gives me some comfort, thanks.

    He would pretend to be a fighter, but he was really a lover – the neighbor’s cat Indiana would come into the yard, and Squeak would get all bristly, but then the two of them would just sit a few feet apart and sing to each other – you know, that low growly-but-not-really noise? Used to entertain us no end. He was a big cat, but had this high pitched kitten squeak of a meow, which is how he got his name. He was a really good kitty.

  101. 101
    trollhattan says:

    @Davis X. Machina:
    We’re screwed and especially our kids are SCREWED. Every person who says the worst thing we’re doing to future generations is handing them a national debt is a dolt.

  102. 102
    dmsilev says:

    @David Koch: The word schadenfreude is such a gift to the language.

  103. 103
    Baud says:

    @Schlemizel:

    His concession speech is going to be a thing of beauty and a joy forever.

    I’m curious what the reaction to the speech will be among Republicans. They all hate him; they just hate Obama more. I’m not sure how they will react to Romney after he loses, especially after so many of them have been told to support him simply because he was going to win.

  104. 104
    gnomedad says:

    @Anne Laurie:
    Bless you, Anne Laurie, you are a genius. I think you have just laid down a Unified Theory of the Republican Party. Okay, a little lacking in the sniveling evil department, but still …

  105. 105
    Violet says:

    @Baud: @leinie:
    I wasn’t saying I have any sympathy for her–well, I do for her dealing with breast cancer and MS, but she’s lucky because she can afford the best treatment, but even so, that’s a challenge. I just think she’s hated campaigning and she’s happy it’s over while simultaneously she knows Mitt’s going to lose and is not looking forward to having to deal with him post-loss. That will not be fun.

    Leinie, I don’t think Ann was born Mormon was she? Didn’t she convert once she got involved with Mitt? She was so young it was almost the same as being raised Mormon, though.

  106. 106
    trollhattan says:

    @Geoduck:
    Presumably Willard was also useful at some point in his life. But the RomneyTron12 is Commodore-like in it’s ability to run a campaign and presumably, do some governatin’.

    Now the president, by contrast, is more like the 20-petaflop thingie they just installed at Oak Ridge.

  107. 107
    Schlemizel says:

    @Baud:
    I assume the reaction will be “WE TOLD YOU HE WAS NOT A REAL CONSERVATIVE!”

  108. 108
    Baud says:

    @Violet:

    I didn’t mean to suggest you had impure sympathies. :)

  109. 109
    dmsilev says:

    @Violet: I’d have a hell of a lot more sympathy for her if she had demonstrated any sense of empathy for other people beyond her personal circle. As it is, the sense of entitlement and “I’m better than you” just streams off of her constantly.

  110. 110
    Violet says:

    @leinie: Very sorry for the loss of your kitty. That’s so hard to come home to. I hope it was just an accidental ingestion of something, as others have suggested.

  111. 111
    Geoduck says:

    @MikeJ:

    Love the hed: WA-Gov close, Obama, gay marriage, and marijuana lead

    Mostly good, but if we end with that two-faced little snot McKenna as governor.. ugh.

  112. 112
    gbear says:

    @leinie: I know that it’s really painful to loose a good kitty.
    I know about the mouse thing because my cat clued me in to a mouse invasion of my house a couple weeks ago. She kept looking under the stove next to her food bowl. If she ever saw a mouse she would freak out and run away (although my new cat shows signs that he’ll be a ferocious mouser). I put out traps instead of poison because even if I could keep it away from the cats, there was no guarantee that a cat wouldn’t find a poisoned mouse. Haven’t had a mouse in the traps for a week now so I hope we’re done with the first wave.

  113. 113
    leinie says:

    @Mnemosyne: Ah, you’ve described my sister-in-law oh so well there. She converted, and is so much more devout and better a Mormon than anyone else!

    Of course, I’m an atheist now, so I’m doomed for hell and she doesn’t want me around the kids, but is forced to tolerate me because the rest of my Mormon family really does live/believe that whole importance-of-family stuff.

    Didn’t know she was a convert, that explains a bunch.

  114. 114
    dmsilev says:

    @Baud: As far as the GOP is concerned, Romney will become an unperson roughly 10 minutes after his concession speech. “A real conservative would have beaten Obama” will be spoken or written approximately a million times between now and January.

    The next round of GOP primaries will be epic.

  115. 115
    Paul says:

    @Reason:

    So Chuck Todd, not wanting to give up the horserace narrative, said that sure their poll of Ohio showed Obama up six, but if party ID is tightened he is only up three ergo OMG TOSSUP!

    And what happens if you loosened up the party ID, Mr Todd?

    He reminds me of Cilizza who claimed that Ohio was a toss-up just because Romney had said he couldn’t afford to lose the state.

    And CNN’s John King last night claimed that despite the poll numbers going Obama’s way in Ohio, he thought there was more excitement in Romney’s Ohio HQ than Obama’s. And thus, a toss-up.

    It is just sad to watch these pundits…

  116. 116
    jenn says:

    Yeah, I’d like to see some sources for that claim that environmentalists are opposed to big public works projects – it seems to me that most of the supporters of public works projects that I know ARE environmentalists. Perhaps they’re just taking what they can get, instead. At any rate, it’s always easier to get public support and an accompanying budget, when you’re rebuilding something that is now broken, rather than tearing something down and then rebuilding. And including Amsterdam in that list of proactive cities is a bit of a no-brainer, given that basically the entire city is a whole 7 feet above sea level.

  117. 117
    Violet says:

    @Schlemizel: That is exactly what they will say.

    @dmsilev: It certainly does. And I agree, she is shockingly insulated and unable or unwilling to look beyond or make any attempt to understand those outside her immediate circle. That’s probably okay if she’s just the wife of a rich guy–she can do charity work and ride her horse and interact with her family. But as the wife of a politician, she has to do more.

    I don’t think she wants Mitt to win, except it would be fun to be First Lady and have some sort of Project–like “Dressage in the Schools” or something–and get to do whatever she wants and be treated with respect. But outside of that, I don’t think she wants to deal with the PITA Mitt would become when he failed miserably at being President. She just wants to ride her horse and play with the grandkids and enjoy being rich.

  118. 118
    Baud says:

    @dmsilev:

    Romney will become an unperson roughly 10 minutes after his concession speech

    Probably the best result for Romney. Unlike McCain, Romney has the option of dropping out of the public eye after this.

  119. 119
    Mr Stagger Lee says:

    @Geoduck: Last I heard Jay Inslee has a 2 point lead. However there is a Tim Eyeman initiative that if it passes Washington must have a 2/3rd approval for taxes, that will be hell for budgets.

  120. 120
    Paul says:

    @lamh35:

    “@PeterHambyCNN: Obama campaign says they have made 125,646,479 voter contacts this cycle. Team Romney has made 50 million.”

    Based on how CNN has approached the polls, I assume CNN would claim this is essentially a tie…

  121. 121
    jenn says:

    @leinie: I’m so sorry about Squeaker, that’s awful.

  122. 122
    lamh35 says:

    VP Biden gots jokes…lol. Love “Ride or Die” Joe.

    “Daylight savings is MittRomney’s favorite time of the year b/c he gets to turn the clock back.” VP Joe Biden

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....e=youtu.be

  123. 123
    Mr Stagger Lee says:

    Cole must be pulling out his beard, TCU scores in the OT. Will someone think of Tunch here?

  124. 124
    Violet says:

    @Paul: This is just sad. I wonder how far ahead Obama would have to be for them to abandon the horse race narrative? Ahead in every swing state poll by six? Ten? Fifteen? Up to 320 electoral votes? 350? Obama ahead in a red state–Georgia or Texas?

    What in the world would get them to decide the narrative wasn’t “horse race”?

  125. 125
    Joel says:

    @Mr Stagger Lee: That thing is already passed. I believe there was the same Tim Eyman initiative passed the last cycle. I don’t know what power they have.

    Inslee has a 3% lead in the Pollster aggregate. Polling is much sparser, so it’s not as solid as even a 1-2% Obama lead, so take it FWIW.

  126. 126
    debbie says:

    @ Litlebritdifrnt:

    I’m in central Ohio, and I’ve been robo-called by Wayne LaPierre and someone speaking on behalf of Billy Graham. Today I got three mailers from FreedomWorks on why Sherrod Brown will destroy America. I think someone’s been sold a bogus mailing list…

  127. 127
    gelfling545 says:

    @Yutsano: It could be poisoning but not necessarily of an intentional kind. He could well have eaten a rodent who had been poisoned or some such. Also could have eaten from someone’s trash where food had gotten mixed with something noxious or sharp during disposal.

    In any case, condolences to his humans. Very sad no matter what the cause.

  128. 128
    gbear says:

    Romney will become an unperson roughly 10 minutes after his concession speech

    I can still remember hundreds of people bursting into a spontaneous chant of ‘Sha na na na, Sha na na na, Hey hey hey, GOODBYE!” from the crowd watching Bush and Cheney helecopter away from DC after Obama’s inauguration. It was bleeding very clearly into the live feed and the reporters weren’t quite sure how to deal with it. That was such a good day overall, including Cheney faking illness so that he wouldn’t have to stand for the new president.

    Romney will just go back to screwing people for money, but he won’t be able to be the guy who walks in to make the sale anymore. He will have ZERO clout as of next wednesday. The thought of a broken Romney makes me feel sooo damned good.

  129. 129
    trollhattan says:

    @lamh35:
    Oh Snap! Joe being Joe–one of a very few things I enjoy in politics.

    I expect Onion Joe to have an epic week–hopefully he’ll Tweet election night.

  130. 130
    trollhattan says:

    @gbear:
    Remember the Fox concern-trolling of how disrespectful that was? No, it was delivered with all due respect.

  131. 131
  132. 132
    Mr Stagger Lee says:

    @Joel: No it is back, Initiative 1185 requires 2/3rds supermajority in the legislature or the voters.
    You can see it here on the Secretary of States website.

  133. 133
    muddy says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    The interesting thing about Ann Romney to me is that she was not raised in the Mormon church—she converted when she was a teenager

    The really creepy part about it was that she went to live with the elder Romneys when she was 16, and George converted her.

    It’s the worst thing I ever head about him.

  134. 134
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    My office, which is strictly nonpartisan, is holding an office pool on EC results, with half the winnings going to help make a nice Christmas for a couple of families we’re “adopting” for the holidays. I’ve already decided that if I win, I will also donate my half to the Christmas fund. We are allowed to enter as many times as we wish, each time costs $10. I think I will enter five times, and the idea is that the closest EC results wins the pool.

    What I need is a good range of plausible, likely results. I do not want anything that suggests a win for Mittens. I’d rather eat the $50 than entertain that possibility. What I’m thinking is a range of five results, from a squeaker for Obama to a romp. I could pull numbers out of my ass, but I’d prefer to ask the BJ mind hive. No need to indicate particular paths, just numbers that could happen in reality. And popular vote is irrelevant in this exercise.

    Thanks!

  135. 135
    Mnemosyne says:

    @gbear:

    I can still remember hundreds of people bursting into a spontaneous chant of ‘Sha na na na, Sha na na na, Hey hey hey, GOODBYE!” that was coming from the crowd watching Bush and Cheney helecopter away from DC after Obama’s inauguration.

    I’m still convinced that was a contingent from Chicago, because that’s the song they play at White Sox games when a Sox player gets a home run.

  136. 136
    the Conster says:

    @the Conster:

    I think those debates he did really hurt him with a lot of people who thought he was a really nice guy. Who could’ve predicted he’d be just a huge dick like every other Republican.

  137. 137
    the Conster says:

    @Reason:

    WOLVERINES!

  138. 138
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Baud:

    U

    nlike McCain, Romney has the option of dropping out of the public eye after this.

    Do you mean to tell me he’s not going to be on “Dancing Dave and the Meat Press” every other Sunday morning from now until the Angel Moroni’s last trump?

  139. 139
    Mnemosyne says:

    @muddy:

    Eh, I’m pretty sure that if you go to live with your high school boyfriend’s family, you’re already pretty serious about marrying the guy, which would require converting if the guy you have your eye on is a Mormon. I have a hard time believing Ann was brainwashed into it.

  140. 140
    David Koch says:

    Jan Crawford is on CBS insisting it’s a toss up.

    Oy Vey. Die, corporate-media, die.

  141. 141
    danielx says:

    @SectarianSofa:

    Generally speaking – not to make a bad pun – the military folk don’t have the luxury of ignoring operational realities, unlike political bureaucrats (cough*Rumsfeld*cough). They’ve been planning for the general bad things due to climate change and fossil fuel depletion for at least a decade. After all, they can always say that they’re only planning for possibilities, which is what they do. You can bet that they have plans salted away for all sorts of unlikely eventualities: Invade Canada? That would be OpPlan Case Blue 17b, coming right up!

    it’s natural that climate change is a verboten topic for the Republican faithful. After all, a great deal of funding comes from people and organizations whose whole business model and assets are based upon fucking up the entire planet.

    And of course

  142. 142
    Baud says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Ha! McCain has that niche cornered. Once Romney loses, he really has nothing left to offer anyone, including the press.

  143. 143
    PreservedKillick says:

    @the Conster:

    Warren leading Brown by 6 points.

    Two robocalls today. The NRA warning me that Warren wants to take away my guns (we have strict gun control hereabouts, guys, but also a lot of shooting ranges – I can count at least 6 within a five mile radius.)

    Anyway. I don’t have, nor do I plan to purchase, semi-automatic weapons. But thanks for the warning.

    And Matt Damon left us a message. Mrs. Killick was at first confused and asked me if I knew who this Matt Damon guy was.

    Ahem.

    Matt didn’t seem worried about our non-existent semi-automatic weapons, but I’m OK with that.

  144. 144
    the Conster says:

    @PreservedKillick:

    I got Matt today. What a nice young man!

  145. 145
    Davis X. Machina says:

    @Reason: UNLIMITED ROASTED CROW!

  146. 146
    CW in LA says:

    @Mnemosyne: Di immortales, you have that right. I teach at a Catholic school. But it’s not just the actual converts: Whenever we’re herded into a presentation where the speaker begins by intoning, “I come to you with the enthusiasm of a convert”, you know it’s gonna be bad

  147. 147
    David Koch says:

    @PreservedKillick:

    Matt didn’t seem worried about our non-existent semi-automatic weapons, but I’m OK with that.

    That’s because Jason Bourne is an expert in martial arts.

  148. 148
    zacsmith says:

    I just came home from dinner and discovered my “Obama Y’all” sign (I’m in the suburbs of Atlanta) was stolen! Frankly, I’m surprised it took this long (about two weeks) in my very Republication neighborhood.

    S’ok… I’m a graphic artist. I’ll be making a HUGE replacement sign, and anchoring it into the ground of my corner lot. That should take just a couple of hours. Then I’m off the the local Democratic headquarters to volunteer.

    Stupid Republications. All that person accomplished was to activate me on behalf of Obama and Georgia Democrats, and cause me to send in $100.

  149. 149
    scott (the other one) says:

    @Another Halocene Human:

    what do we know about Jean Sebelius?

    Jean Sibelius was one of—maybe THE—greatest composers of symphonies of the 20th century. Also wonderful with tone poems. One of the very first world-famous Finns.

    Oh…did you mean Kathleen Sebelius?

  150. 150
    dmsilev says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Go here, and start with the current 281 (not including toss-ups), and then add and subtract states in order. I think 332 is the highest plausible number; that’s all of the swing states except NC going for Obama.

  151. 151
    PreservedKillick says:

    @David Koch:

    That’s because Jason Bourne is an expert in martial arts.

    He’d fit right in around here. Maybe he’ll stick around to protect us once Liz Warren steals our semi-automatic weapons.

    Or maybe he knows where she’s going to stash them and this is all a ruse.

  152. 152
    Geoduck says:

    @Baud:

    Ha! McCain has that niche cornered. Once Romney loses, he really has nothing left to offer anyone, including the press.

    And once again, the press likes McCain, even now. Nobody, except maybe his immediate family, likes Mitt Romney.

  153. 153
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @leinie:

    I am so sorry about Squeaker. Poor kitty, and poor you.

  154. 154
    trollhattan says:

    @Reason:
    I am so ready for you to place a BIG FAT CASH BET on that outcome. How about it, Taco?

  155. 155
    Joe Buck says:

    “But another reason is that many environmentalists are firmly opposed to a big public-works project, fearing that it would give people a false sense of security about the problems posed by climate change. “

    Really? Which specific environmentalist says this? Or is this a version of the Fox News “Some say …”?

  156. 156
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @dmsilev: Perfect, thanks, that is exactly what I was looking for! When I calculate my predictions, I’ll share them here so TacoDerf can laugh and point and tell me how wrong I am.

  157. 157
    Roger Moore says:

    @dmsilev:

    As far as the GOP is concerned, Romney will become an unperson roughly 10 minutes after his concession speech.

    More like 10 seconds into his concession speech, i.e. the point when it’s obviously a concession speech. The diehards within the Party will want him to screech about voter fraud and challenge every state where anyone can gin up the tiniest hint of a problem with the election. If he doesn’t do his very best to drag out the recounts for as long as possible, he’s the worst appeaser since Neville Chamberlain.

  158. 158
    Roger Moore says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    Look at the Princeton Election Consortium page. They have an expected distribution of electoral votes, and there seem to be several spikes that correspond to likely combinations of states.

  159. 159
    Kayla Rudbek says:

    We already bloody well know how to turn carbon dioxide into other substances chemically; the question is whether we can make it economically feasible and pull enough out of the atmosphere. We can even turn carbon dioxide and water back into sugar with light and magnesium ion photocatalyst; Matilda Brooks patented that process over forty years ago. US 3,573,184, ladies and gentlemen….

  160. 160

    Time for Bama to lay the wood to LSU.

  161. 161
    Lojasmo says:

    @Reason:

    LOL. That chicken has to be cooked and shredded by now, lady.

  162. 162
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @leinie: Aw. That cat story is what I dread most every time I leave home. So sorry for you.

  163. 163
    Joel says:

    @David Koch: Crawford is a republican. No surprises.

  164. 164
    Ken says:

    @dmsilev: Unperson is actually pretty good, compared to the alternative – the incompetent moron who lost what should have been a cakewalk, mentioned at least twice a week by some politician calling for the Republicans to go even harder right next time.

  165. 165
    Anne Laurie says:

    @gnomedad: Unfortunately, human nature is like water — it tends to seek the lowest level…

  166. 166
    JustAnotherBob says:

    @PeakVT:

    The intertubes tells me that 5-7% of all CO2 released globally comes from cement production.

    The important question would seem to be whether we would use more concrete building dikes or rebuilding our infrastructure on higher ground.

    We’ve screwed up. We need to cut our CO2 emissions as quickly as possible, but we have no technology for quickly sucking back the CO2 that’s already been released. We’re going to have to adapt to the change we have already created.

  167. 167
    PreservedKillick says:

    @JustAnotherBob:

    We’ve screwed up. We need to cut our CO2 emissions as quickly as possible, but we have no technology for quickly sucking back the CO2 that’s already been released. We’re going to have to adapt to the change we have already created.

    The richest country in the world, responsible for the largest per-capita CO2 production, has now unlocked huge reserves of hydrocarbons, on top of already massive reserves. The most populous has access to at least 50 years of coal.

    We’re *not* going to lock down our CO2 production. We had best adapt and work on sequestration technologies.

  168. 168
    Kayla Rudbek says:

    @JustAnotherBob: we have technology for reducing carbon dioxide into other chemicals. The problems are purifying the carbon dioxide present in the atmosphere, and running the reduction reactions. Both of these steps take energy. The question is whether we can come up with the energy to run the carbon dioxide reduction processes without generating more carbon dioxide than is used up during the processes, and whether we can make these economically feasible.

  169. 169
    JustAnotherBob says:

    @Kayla Rudbek: We can use concentrated CO2 (CO2 gathered from fossil fuel smokestacks).

    We don’t have any economically feasible ways of capturing CO2 from the atmosphere. The solution is to quit putting more into the atmosphere.

  170. 170
    JustAnotherBob says:

    @PreservedKillick:

    We’re not going to lock down our CO2 production.

    US CO2 production peaked in 2005 and has fallen since then. During the first half of 2012 we were at early 1990s levels.

    This drop is not due to us producing less electricity nor is it due to the economic recession. (A minor portion of the reduction seems to be due to fewer miles driven/flown.)

    A few years back we produced more than 50% of our electricity using coal. For the first half of 2012 coal produced only 36% of our electricity. This number will continue to fall as we have roughly 100 coal plants scheduled to close over the next few years.

    At the same time (thanks, PBO) our vehicle efficiency will continue to rise, letting us continue to drive but using far less petroleum per mile.

    We are increasing the energy efficiency of our buildings and electronic “stuff”. We are increasing the amount of electricity we get from wind, solar and geothermal.

    We have locked down our CO2 production and will continue to cut CO2 production at accelerated rates. Obviously we have done too little, too slowly to avoid climate change – it is upon us. But we do stand a chance of avoiding the worst.

  171. 171
    Calming Influence says:

    Karma dictates that the asshole Laughing His Ass Off @0:33-34 owns uninsured beachfront property in New Jersey.

  172. 172
    Svensker says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Go visit Nate Silver’s blog and Sam Wang’s blog. Then choose.

  173. 173
    Kayla Rudbek says:

    @JustAnotherBob: the question is whether the chemical or photochemical conversion of carbon dioxide to e.g. Formaldehyde, methanol, carbon monoxide, , glucose, etc. can be made economically efficient and energy efficient. Once we have carbon monoxide, formaldehyde, or glucose, we have lots of different routes for using those as feedstock in othe chemical or biochemical processes.

  174. 174
    Yutsano says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): Your wish has been granted Emissary.

Comments are closed.