Taibbi Nails It

Exactly:

I’ve never thought much of Joe Biden. But man, did he get it right in last night’s debate, and not just because he walloped sniveling little Paul Ryan on the facts. What he got absolutely right, despite what you might read this morning (many outlets are criticizing Biden’s dramatic excesses), was his tone. Biden did absolutely roll his eyes, snort, laugh derisively and throw his hands up in the air whenever Ryan trotted out his little beady-eyed BS-isms.

But he should have! He was absolutely right to be doing it. We all should be doing it. That includes all of us in the media, and not just paid obnoxious-opinion-merchants like me, but so-called “objective” news reporters as well. We should all be rolling our eyes, and scoffing and saying, “Come back when you’re serious.”

The load of balls that both Romney and Ryan have been pushing out there for this whole election season is simply not intellectually serious. Most of their platform isn’t even a real platform, it’s a fourth-rate parlor trick designed to paper over the real agenda – cutting taxes even more for super-rich dickheads like Mitt Romney, and getting everyone else to pay the bill.

***

The Romney/Ryan ticket decided, with incredible cynicism, that that they were going to promise this massive tax break, not explain how to pay for it, and then just hang on until election day, knowing that most of the political press would let it skate, or at least not take a dump all over it when explaining it to the public. Unchallenged, and treated in print and on the air as though it were the same thing as a real plan, a 20 percent tax cut sounds pretty good to most Americans. Hell, it sounds good to me.

The proper way to report such a tactic is to bring to your coverage exactly the feeling that Biden brought to the debate last night: contempt and amazement. We in the press should be offended by what Romney and Ryan are doing – we should take professional offense that any politician would try to whisk such a gigantic lie past us to our audiences, and we should take patriotic offense that anyone is trying to seize the White House using such transparently childish and dishonest tactics.

Republicans are going to try to do to Biden what they did with Gore, but isn’t going to work. Gore comes across as a stuffy prick, so his sighing and forced hisrionics were easy to demagogue. But Joe was just being Joe, so trying to make his mannerisms into something just won’t work.






230 replies
  1. 1
    Liberty60 says:

    We need to bury the “Serious cat” Ryan schtick once and for all.

  2. 2
    cathyx says:

    The people who are undecided about this race don’t watch TV debates.

  3. 3
    Laura says:

    I’m wary of people who say they “never thought much of Joe Biden.”

  4. 4
    Chris says:

    But he should have!

    I agree.

    This is how you deal with people who are as completely full of shit (and of themselves) as Mittens and PR. Anyone who respects the American people as little as they do deserves no better.

  5. 5
    Davis X. Machina says:

    I’ve never thought much of Joe Biden.

    I’ve never thought much of Matt Taibbi.

    Incredible coincidence, no?

  6. 6
    MikeJ says:

    @cathyx: People who are undecided about this race don’t wipe the drool off their chins.

  7. 7
    smintheus says:

    It also worked because Biden didn’t mock Palin, who most people knew to be a lightweight. That implies that Ryan is a bigger joke than the ridiculous Palin.

  8. 8
    alicia-logic says:

    I’ve been saying for some time, Cassandra-like, that this is the basic problem of the media and that it seriously threatens the prospect of good self-governance. In a complex society, specialization is required because most of us can’t know everything necessary to be a good Senator, a competent auto mechanic, and a lawyer. We must rely on professionals to carry some of the cognitive and information filtering load so that we can make executive decisions.

    This applies as much to voting decisions as any other. As Sherlock commended our attention, in Silver Blaze, to the curious behavior of the dog in the night (he did not bark therefore the intruder was familiar to him), the citizenry is allowed to sleep through a government takeover by charlatans, expecting that if they were really that terrible the watchdogs of society would alert.

    And yet they do not. Only poor Cassandra does, shouting herself hoarse to no effect.

    Edited to clean up some grammar problems.

  9. 9
    Politically Lost says:

    we should take professional offense that any politician would try to whisk such a gigantic lie past us to our audiences, and we should take patriotic offense that anyone is trying to seize the White House using such transparently childish and dishonest tactics.

    Seems impossible with the media that we have. Until this changes (and I’m all for a civil war to make it happen) we will continue to see campaigns take the liberty of lying to our face.

  10. 10
    dr. bloor says:

    We in the press should be offended by what Romney and Ryan are doing – we should take professional offense

    If your profession is journalism, that is. If, however, your profession is one of the oldest…

  11. 11
    Cols714 says:

    This is why I worry that this election is shaping up like 2000.

  12. 12
    smintheus says:

    I’ve been surprised that Obama and Biden haven’t hit Ryan/Romney for their proposal to shut down the VA hospital system and replace it with vouchers. Last night would have been the perfect time for Biden to have hammered Ryan with it.

  13. 13
    beltane says:

    I just can’t stop laughing at how the party of “You Lie!” and 1,001 other crimes against common decency is getting their pink flowered panties in a bunch over Joe Biden’s lack of civility. That they can do this with a straight face is a testament to their utter and complete moral corruption.

    Someone needs to make a video montage containing all the best examples of Republican “manners” from the past four years and shove it in the faces of these flatulent, degenerate scum.

  14. 14
    RaflW says:

    I just felt like Joe really connected to real people who were watching.

    And since most Villagers would choke on a canape if real people showed up at a Georgetown cocktail party, they have no idea that Joe was human, connecting, and at his core, he was emotionally honest.

    That’s a shocking thing to be at his level of politics. And I love it.

  15. 15
    SFAW says:

    It would be outstanding if last night’s debate had any substantive effect on the election. Unfortunately, the Compromiser-in-Chief (or is it “Conciliator”?) already gave us the Awshit that wipes out a million Attaboys.

    One hopes that Obama gets a testosterone (or whatever) injection before the next debate, because playing the “serious” card seems to be a losing strategy/tactic. And until he and the Press start identifying Rmoney and Ryan for what they are, i.e. lying motherfuckers who will say and do anything – lies, big lies, or fucking-humongous-lies – to win the election, then it’ll be even more of an uphill battle.

    One wishes that Biden had said what he wanted to say last night: “Paulie, you are just so full of shit that your eyes are turning brown. How can you lie so much and still claim to be a good Catholic?”

    The last week has not been good for my blood pressure.

  16. 16
    J. Michael Neal says:

    @Davis X. Machina: In a piece like this, Taibbi is fine. Not excellent, mind you, but good. It lacks the punch of the stuff he was writing while he was in Russia.

    Where Taibbi gets lost is when he tries to do anything technical. He’s only marginally more numerate than Andrew Sullivan and is convinced that having writing skills means that he’s qualified to write about any subject he picks up. It’s fortunate that Ryan didn’t get at all specific, because then Taibbi would have been in over his head.

    As a pure polemicist, though, Taibbi does all right. As I said, he whole schtick worked better when taking on Vladimir Putin. Maybe he just doesn’t work as well fueled on American vodka.

  17. 17
    Maude says:

    The media believed that there were WMD in Iraq.
    They were shaking their pom poms for the invasion.

  18. 18
    Maude says:

    @J. Michael Neal:
    I’m sorry about the job. It used to be called over qualified. I ran into it a lot.

  19. 19
    Redshift says:

    Harry Frankfurt said in On Bullshit that he didn’t know of a good way to argue against BS, just that trying to apply logical reasoning isn’t it (because they can make up more BS with much less effort than it takes you to debunk it.)

    My experience since then has been that mockery is one of the best tools we have. I’m glad Biden applied it, in measure appropriate to the setting.

  20. 20
    Davis X. Machina says:

    @SFAW: Is the second debate the town-hall format, and the third debate the dick-measuring contest, or is it the other way round?

    I keep forgetting….

  21. 21
    BudP says:

    Mitt Romney : a man from Wall Street who wants us to agree to his giant tax plan, but won’t give us any details. What should we do?

  22. 22
    RaflW says:

    @SFAW: Biden did say that. Many times. He was just smart enough to say it through mannerisms and takedowns, not as the frontal assault some seem to want.

  23. 23
    SFAW says:

    @RaflW:

    Joe’s a great guy. A little clumsy, perhaps, at times, but that’s about it for the negatives.

    If John Kerry had half of Biden’s down-to-earthiness, he would have won in 2004.

  24. 24

    So how much of the drop in polls is related to the 70 million people who watched the debate and how much of the drop is related to the pure horserace coverage that climed it was a distater for Obama?

  25. 25
    PreservedKillick says:

    @Redshift:

    My experience since then has been that mockery is one of the best tools we have. I’m glad Biden applied it, in measure appropriate to the setting.

    This.

    IMO, Biden was way, way over the top in his reactions, and that was entirely on purpose. Everybody is talking about his laughing and grinning and so on…and that’s the point. Everybody is paying attention to WHAT he was reacting to as well. And they may not like Biden much for it, but they sure as hell won’t like what he was reacting to and that makes the lying just that much harder.

    Biden gave a hell of a debate, but he also laid the groundwork for a serious examination of just what R/R are up to…and why it is, in fact, something laughable.

  26. 26
  27. 27
    gene108 says:

    Didn’t watch the debate. Had company over, who weren’t interested in it.

    Anyway, from reading the post-debate coverage, it seems the debate has served to fire up the bases.

    Democrats declare it a big win for Biden. Republicans declare it a big win for Ryan. People, who are easily persuaded or cannot make up their minds (Independents), seem to think it was a draw.

  28. 28
    Calouste says:

    @BudP:

    Mitt Romney, the “uniquely qualified” “job creator” who actually hasn’t held a job himself in the last five years, and hasn’t held a private sector job in 13 years.

  29. 29

    @Cols714:

    This is why I worry that this election is shaping up like 2000.

    Or 1980.

    We do have mechanisms for pushback now that weren’t available to us then.

    Notice how even CNN was forced to walk back their VP debate poll.

  30. 30
    beltane says:

    @The Other Bob: Imagine if the media had been all aghast at Romney’s incessant lying instead of praising him to the heavens for it? I’d have to be on drugs to imagine a media like that in this country but you can be sure that if we did have such a media the polls would be quite different right now.

  31. 31
    RaflW says:

    Thinking some more about DougJ’s post earlier – the whole “Biden was mean” thing is part of the RW playbook. They know that if Dems start fighting back the way Biden did last night, the GOP is toast.

    So they are spinning like mad today, trying to dampen any urge to high-five and say “this is working” on the left.

    As DougJ says, Fuck em. Going hard at these lying assholes is what’s called for.

    Matt Taibi can have pretty fantasies about the press doing its job, but that’s just an adolescent wet dream.

    The right-wing meme-making machine is whirring at top speed today because what Joe did hurt them.
    Do it again.

  32. 32
    Violet says:

    I’d like to thank Martha Raddatz for moderating the debate so well. She asked great questions, follow ups, and insisted on facts. She did a great job.

  33. 33
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    @Cols714: From what I remember of 2000, though, there was almost no one in the media calling Bush on it. One of the reasons was that Bush/Cheney/Rove successfully made the press beg for access. Once that happened, the press gave themselves up. Fox helped with that, big time. Romney, on the other hand, made the press dislike him. So I don’t think it’s working as well this time.

  34. 34
    the Conster says:

    @Violet:

    Mostly. She was a foreign correspondent and hasn’t spent as much time in the Beltway.

  35. 35
    SFAW says:

    @RaflW:

    Biden did say that. Many times. He was just smart enough to say it through mannerisms and takedowns, not as the frontal assault some seem to want.

    Yeah, I know, but I still wish he had done it using my wording (or similar). Two reasons: it would have put a marker down; it would have gotten the Press to pay attention for a change; it would have caused untold quantities of delicate Rethug flowers, a/k/a sanctimonious, hypocritical pu$$ies, to stroke out, or at least have chest pains.

    OK, three reasons. (“Amongst our reason-ry …”)

  36. 36
    dmsilev says:

    @Violet: On the whole, definitely. The last couple of questions, though, weren’t up to the high standards of the rest of it.

    Maybe we could have had a social issues question that wasn’t framed around the quirks of Catholic bishops and their views on abortion.

  37. 37
    quannlace says:

    I just can’t stop laughing at how the party of “You Lie!” and 1,001 other crimes against common decency is getting their pink flowered panties in a bunch over Joe Biden’s lack of civility.

    Well, when you’ve got so substance to defend, you have to fall back on the fauxtrage!

    This reminds me of one RW radio host, doing his best to defend voter suppression and restrictions. Went thru the usual ‘need an ID to…” BS. But then he started to bemoan early voting, saying in mars the ‘sanctity’ of Election day. Sanctity? Excuse me? You want to explain just what the hell you’re talking about?

  38. 38
    PreservedKillick says:

    The other thing Biden did in that debate is work YouTube. You missed the debate? Man you gotta see Biden! What an (ass/show)! Check it out!

    And then you look. What’s this he’s reacting to? Cut the mortgage deduction? And where *are* those details?

    That debate was designed for later consumption and virality.

  39. 39
    Mudge says:

    Paul Ryan is characterized by the pundits as a very serious person of some gavitas. It is a facade and he is a fraud (see Krugman). The only way to deal with a self-important nitwit is to laugh at his mendacious seriousness.

    Biden did just that.

  40. 40
    nitpicker says:

    I note all the Joe Biden “Cheers, Champ!” beer koozies are sold out at BarackObama.com today.

  41. 41
    Cols714 says:

    I really don’t know what to do about this situation. In 2000 Gore got to be known as a fibber and exaggerator for almost nothing. In 2004 Kerry got to be known as a flip flopper for trying to explain his war funding vote. And now in 2012 we have someone in Romney who has done far more exaggerating and lying than Gore, and far far more flip flopping than Kerry.

    In 2000 and in 2004 the media had no trouble whatsoever painting both Gore and Kerry the exact way the wingnuts wanted them to. Now that we have a guy who is way worse than them and the media seems to not be running with either narrative.

    What can be done? I don’t think anything. I just have to hope that the nation sees what Obama has accomplished and votes accordingly.

  42. 42
    gene108 says:

    @SFAW:

    What amazed me is after Ryan’s speech at the convention, the punditocracy basically came out and said he lied and lied.

    If they’d done that to Bush, Jr., we may not have had as terrible a last 8 years as we’ve had.

  43. 43
    mo says:

    The whole deal with the Republican fainting spells is to get Dems to apologize for their bad behavior. Not Biden’s style. That’s why those Onion stories about him are so hilarious. You can hear him saying the lines.

    “Biden, who contacted aides Monday from an undisclosed Mexican border town, said the situation was getting “pretty fucking dicey” up in Washington and that it was time for him to “take a little vacation” and get his head straight.”

    Biden To Cool His Heels In Mexico For A While

    And he’s on record as saying he thinks these are hilarious and his kids love them the most. Not a guy you can shame into contrition.

  44. 44
    RaflW says:

    @Calouste:
    I kind of want to unpack the uniquely qualified thing, since Ryan clearly memorized that and used it at least twice last night.

    I mean, really? It’s fairly risible to us to think that Mitts qualified at all. But thinking about who Ryan was presumably talking to, why the uniquely qualified?

    I mean, there’s only two real candidates here. But I’m fairly sure some of Mitts recent bounce is actually coming from 3rd party candidate preferences going away.

    I suspect the unique in that trope is aimed at trying to lock down the base from drifting back to Anybody but Obama…or Mitt…voters.

    Seems like it’s coming from a place of weakness not strength to assert that, Paulie.

  45. 45
    Petorado says:

    @RaflW: Bingo.

    The reason pundits spinning Biden as being rude to Ryan won’t work is because Biden doesn’t hide behind a veil of BS and faux seriousness. When he laughed as he nailed Ryan about the stimulus, that was a really damned funny story. As Joe was astonished about Ryan’s lies, they were worthy of a WTF retort. But when Joe quiets down to talk about suffering and hardships people are facing, you know he’s pulling from his own first-hand knowledge of what these people are going through. Biden’s not a good liar, and that means his honesty really comes through when he speaks and you know when he’s telling the truth. And he did last night.

  46. 46
    Comrade Carter says:

    “Gore comes across as a stuffy prick, so his sighing and forced hisrionics were easy to demagogue.”

    Really? You watched that debate and this is what you think? That GORE came across as a “stuffy prick”, you were going to do what? Take BUSH out for a BEER?

    It’s really easy to demagogue when the media puts the talking points on a platter, eh?

  47. 47
    Violet says:

    @RaflW:

    The right-wing meme-making machine is whirring at 11 today because what Joe did hurt them.
    Do it again.

    YES! This! Do it again. And again and again. Crush those motherfuckers. Grow a fucking spine, Democrats. Grind the GOP into dust.

  48. 48
    Z. Mulls says:

    There are two things I’d love to see Obama do/say in the next debate.

    When Romney serves up a position that is clearly at odds with his previous positions, Obama should taunt him, “Oh, is that your new position?” And when Romney tries to bluster that this has always been his real position, Obama should say “Really? Wanna bet? I’ll bet you TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS you had a different position last month.”

    The other thing I’d love to see is — assuming Obama is at least holding his own and scoring some points — when the moderator says there are only a few questions left, Obama could say, “This is a great discussion. I’m willing to go an extra half hour. How about it Governor?” Catch him flat-footed.

  49. 49
    drlemur says:

    I would really like to see some more eye-rolling coverage of the “tax plan” of R-R. Everybody gets so caught up in the math not adding up, that you don’t even notice that it doesn’t make sense even if the math added up. A “revenue neutral tax rate cut” is not even a tax cut. If you cut my rate and eliminate my deductions, my tax bill stays the same. Who freaking cares? How is this even a policy?

    If you say cutting taxes will get you magic supply-side growth that will eventually pay for itself, you’re wrong, but at least you have a plan. Your plan is stimulus, btw, and at that point you should note that Obama’s original stimulus was about 50% tax cuts — which the R’s say didn’t work.

  50. 50
    scott says:

    @PreservedKillick: Clinton did it first a couple of days ago by mocking Romney (“where you been?”), and I thought then that ridicule is a really powerful tool for dealing with people who just don’t give a shit about facts or their own prior positions. You point out that they don’t, and then you mock them for trying to fool us. I know as good rationalists (and clearly the president sees himself in this way) we’re supposed to credit the opposition’s good faith and earnestly but fairly point out their logical and factual shortcomings in the search for truth. But all that is wasted and a dangerous diversion if the opposition isn’t interested in truth. Then your biggest job is to point out how uninterested they are in the truth with the sort of good-humored contempt that they deserve (did you really think we would fall for that?). This appraoch got a workout last night, and I loved it.

  51. 51
    RaflW says:

    @SFAW: OK.

    And, Biden has to be looking at a strategy that works for soft Obama supporters and undecideds, too. Your line is great – at an Obama rally.

    But if he’d come out as strong as you want, then the RW bellyaching might be ‘justified’ and then the tactic is lost, due to overplaying the hand.

    I thin Biden nailed it. Showed the right level of contempt for a bag of contemptible ideas, but didn’t overshoot.

  52. 52
    Robin G. says:

    @alicia-logic: Well, I’m depressed.

  53. 53
    Djur says:

    @Laura: Joe Biden, as much as I admire him as vice president, carried a lot of water for the credit industry as Senator. The bankruptcy bill he championed was really, really shitty. Taibbi’s beat is economic populism, and Biden has not been a heroic figure there.

  54. 54
    Violet says:

    @scott:

    Clinton did it first a couple of days ago by mocking Romney (“where you been?”), and I thought then that ridicule is a really powerful tool for dealing with people who just don’t give a shit about facts or their own prior positions. You point out that they don’t, and then you mock them for trying to fool us.

    Completely agree. Ridiculing them and making sure you indicate that the public is too smart to fall for that nonsense is the way to go. Laughing at a sociopathic liar is one of the few techniques available as a response technique because you simply can’t refute line by line when someone lies all the time. By including the public “Can you believe this guy is trying to fool us again? We’re too smart for that.” you make the public feel smart and “we’re in this together against this idiot”, which is also effective.

    An added benefit is Romney has very thin skin and cannot deal with people laughing at him. Want to throw him off his game–make him look foolish.

  55. 55
    catclub says:

    @quannlace: “Sanctity?”

    Yeah, that is why bars are closed on election day.
    Sanctity. French word for having 5 breasts.

  56. 56
    stratplayer says:

    @The Other Bob:

    So how much of the drop in polls is related to the 70 million people who watched the debate and how much of the drop is related to the pure horserace coverage that climed it was a distater for Obama?

    I strongly suspect the latter. The wildly over-the-top wailing and teeth-gnashing from Obama supporters like Sullivan undoubtedly helped push the media into a feeding frenzy. A somewhat low-information voter with whom I am acquainted watched the debate on YouTube knowing nothing about the media response told me she thought Obama came across perfectly well. She had no idea what all these panicky fools were talking about. If liberals had just kept their heads and resisted the media narrative about the debate, I’m not sure we’d be in this hole now. We are our own worst enemy sometimes.

  57. 57
    stratplayer says:

    @The Other Bob:

    So how much of the drop in polls is related to the 70 million people who watched the debate and how much of the drop is related to the pure horserace coverage that climed it was a distater for Obama?

    I strongly suspect the latter. The wildly over-the-top wailing and teeth-gnashing from Obama supporters like Sullivan undoubtedly helped push the media into a feeding frenzy. A somewhat low-information voter with whom I am acquainted watched the debate on YouTube knowing nothing about the media response told me she thought Obama came across perfectly well. She had no idea what all these panicky fools were talking about. If liberals had just kept their heads and resisted the media narrative about the debate, I’m not sure we’d be in this hole now. We are our own worst enemy sometimes.

  58. 58
    pseudonymous in nc says:

    @Djur:

    Joe Biden, as much as I admire him as vice president, carried a lot of water for the credit industry as Senator.

    Delaware senator. In other news, Iowa senators champion shitty farm bills and California senators champion shitty intellectual property bills. The ability of industries to own individual states, and basically dictate the actions of their politicians regardless of party is one of the many reasons why the Senate sucks, and why federalism isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.

  59. 59
    stratplayer says:

    @The Other Bob:

    So how much of the drop in polls is related to the 70 million people who watched the debate and how much of the drop is related to the pure horserace coverage that climed it was a distater for Obama?

    I strongly suspect the latter. The wildly over-the-top wailing and teeth-gnashing from Obama supporters like Sullivan undoubtedly helped push the media into a feeding frenzy. A somewhat low-information voter with whom I am acquainted watched the debate on YouTube knowing nothing about the media response told me she thought Obama came across perfectly well. She had no idea what all these panicky fools were talking about. If liberals had just kept their heads and resisted the media narrative about the debate, I’m not sure we’d be in this hole now. We are our own worst enemy sometimes.

  60. 60
    J. Michael Neal says:

    There’s a downside to playing up Romney’s inconsistencies and it’s a big one. If what you emphasize is that Romney will say anything about his beliefs you open the door to all of those who badly WANT to think of him as a moderate who had to lie his way through the GOP primaries. They become free to ascribe any set of beliefs to Romney that they feel like, and in a lot of cases, those aren’t going to be the beliefs we want them to hold or that bear any resemblance to the real Mitt Romney.

    Yes, I think the electorate might be that dumb.

  61. 61
    Amir Khalid says:

    @catclub:
    For some reason, I am reminded of Eccentrica Gallumbits, who is two breasts short of sanctity.

  62. 62
    stratplayer says:

    @The Other Bob:

    So how much of the drop in polls is related to the 70 million people who watched the debate and how much of the drop is related to the pure horserace coverage that climed it was a distater for Obama?

    I strongly suspect the latter. The wildly over-the-top wailing and teeth-gnashing from Obama supporters like Sullivan undoubtedly helped push the media into a feeding frenzy. A somewhat low-information voter with whom I am acquainted watched the debate on YouTube knowing nothing about the media response told me she thought Obama came across perfectly well. She had no idea what all these panicky fools were talking about. If liberals had just kept their heads and resisted the media narrative about the debate, I’m not sure we’d be in this hole now. We are our own worst enemy sometimes.

  63. 63

    @catclub: holy schneikes i can’t believe my keyboard still works after spitting water all over it. Cinqetitty indeed.

  64. 64
    Amir Khalid says:

    @catclub:
    For some reason, I am reminded of Eccentrica Gallumbits, who is two breasts short of sanctity.

  65. 65
    stratplayer says:

    @The Other Bob:

    So how much of the drop in polls is related to the 70 million people who watched the debate and how much of the drop is related to the pure horserace coverage that climed it was a distater for Obama?

    I strongly suspect the latter. The wildly over-the-top wailing and teeth-gnashing from Obama supporters like Sullivan undoubtedly helped push the media into a feeding frenzy. A somewhat low-information voter with whom I am acquainted watched the debate on YouTube knowing nothing about the media response told me she thought Obama came across perfectly well. She had no idea what all these panicky fools were talking about. If liberals had just kept their heads and resisted the media narrative about the debate, I’m not sure we’d be in this hole now. We are our own worst enemy sometimes.

  66. 66

    @catclub: holy schneikes i can’t believe my keyboard still works after spitting water all over it. Cinqetitty indeed.

  67. 67
    Amir Khalid says:

    @catclub:
    For some reason, I am reminded of Eccentrica Gallumbits, who is two breasts short of sanctity.

  68. 68
    WarMunchkin says:

    @Violet: I actually disagree with the “great questions” aspect. I was extremely surprised by her designation of Iran as America’s biggest national security threat. That’s a pretty big assumption that needs to be explained before being used.

    The abortion question was also not a question about abortion, it was a question meant to attack Biden, “How can you justify going against your religion on [insert issue here]?”.

    Why do people here hate Matt Taibbi? I find his characterization of Republicans as people who “keep their dress socks on while they do their biweekly duty to their wives” and “dickheads” as on point.

  69. 69
    trollhattan says:

    @Liberty60:
    Ryan’s a wonk like I’m a Buddhist monk; difference being, I know I’m not a Buddhist monk.

  70. 70
    stratplayer says:

    @The Other Bob:

    So how much of the drop in polls is related to the 70 million people who watched the debate and how much of the drop is related to the pure horserace coverage that climed it was a distater for Obama?

    I strongly suspect the latter. The wildly over-the-top wailing and teeth-gnashing from Obama supporters like Sullivan undoubtedly helped push the media into a feeding frenzy. A somewhat low-information voter with whom I am acquainted watched the debate on YouTube knowing nothing about the media response told me she thought Obama came across perfectly well. She had no idea what all these panicky fools were talking about. If liberals had just kept their heads and resisted the media narrative about the debate, I’m not sure we’d be in this hole now. We are our own worst enemy sometimes.

  71. 71

    @catclub: Well done catclub! Cinquetitty indeed.

  72. 72
    Culture of Truth says:

    You’re right, but the media is killing itself trying to make this all about Joe being mean.

  73. 73
    Amir Khalid says:

    @catclub:
    For some reason, I am reminded of Eccentrica Gallumbits, who is two breasts short of sanctity.

  74. 74
    blingee says:

    @J. Michael Neal: I stopped listening to anything Taibbi said when he jumped on the “blame Wall Street for everything” bandwagon and even tried to sell some books about it I think. Not because I didn’t agree, but because he was pretending he knew a lot more about macro economics than he does…which is just about zero.

  75. 75
    WarMunchkin says:

    @Violet: I actually disagree with the “great questions” aspect. I was extremely surprised by her designation of Iran as America’s biggest national security threat. That’s a pretty big assumption that needs to be explained before being used.

    The abortion question was also not a question about abortion, it was a question meant to attack Biden, “How can you justify going against your religion on [insert issue here]?”.

    Why do people here hate Matt Taibbi? I find his characterization of Republicans as people who “keep their dress socks on while they do their biweekly duty to their wives” and “dickheads” as on point.

  76. 76
    trollhattan says:

    @Liberty60:
    Ryan’s a wonk like I’m a Buddhist monk; difference being, I know I’m not a Buddhist monk.

  77. 77

    @catclub: Well done catclub! Cinquetitty indeed.

  78. 78
    Culture of Truth says:

    You’re right, but the media is killing itself trying to make this all about Joe being mean.

  79. 79
    Amir Khalid says:

    @catclub:
    For some reason, I am reminded of Eccentrica Gallumbits, who is two breasts short of sanctity.

  80. 80
    Amir Khalid says:

    @catclub:
    For some reason, I am reminded of Eccentrica Gallumbits, who is two breasts short of sanctity.

  81. 81
    David in NY says:

    @pseudonymous in nc: Used to be Biden:credit industry::Schumer:Wall St. But I think Schumer has cut away from Wall Street recently, after, however, screwing up the real possibility of fixing the carried interest scam.

  82. 82

    @The Other Bob: And how much of either component was people who had finally found their reason, any reason, to give themselves permission to vote the black guy out (in which case we’d have seen the drop at some point anyway)?

  83. 83
    stratplayer says:

    @The Other Bob:

    So how much of the drop in polls is related to the 70 million people who watched the debate and how much of the drop is related to the pure horserace coverage that climed it was a distater for Obama?

    I strongly suspect the latter. The wildly over-the-top wailing and teeth-gnashing from Obama supporters like Sullivan undoubtedly helped push the media into a feeding frenzy. A somewhat low-information voter with whom I am acquainted watched the debate on YouTube knowing nothing about the media response told me she thought Obama came across perfectly well. She had no idea what all these panicky fools were talking about. If liberals had just kept their heads and resisted the media narrative about the debate, I’m not sure we’d be in this hole now. We are our own worst enemy sometimes.

  84. 84
    Amir Khalid says:

    @catclub:
    For some reason, I am reminded of Eccentrica Gallumbits, who is two breasts short of sanctity.

  85. 85
    stratplayer says:

    @The Other Bob:

    So how much of the drop in polls is related to the 70 million people who watched the debate and how much of the drop is related to the pure horserace coverage that climed it was a distater for Obama?

    I strongly suspect the latter. The wildly over-the-top wailing and teeth-gnashing from Obama supporters like Sullivan undoubtedly helped push the media into a feeding frenzy. A somewhat low-information voter with whom I am acquainted watched the debate on YouTube knowing nothing about the media response told me she thought Obama came across perfectly well. She had no idea what all these panicky fools were talking about. If liberals had just kept their heads and resisted the media narrative about the debate, I’m not sure we’d be in this hole now. We are our own worst enemy sometimes.

  86. 86
    trollhattan says:

    @Violet:
    True, so long as said ridicule is anchored in reality. Knocking Romney on eternally shifting positions is on-target with all but the eternally stupified. Calling Obama “teleprompter-dependent” or “Kenyan” or “Mooselim” only works on folks who would never pick him in ten millennia, anyway.

  87. 87
    stratplayer says:

    @The Other Bob:

    So how much of the drop in polls is related to the 70 million people who watched the debate and how much of the drop is related to the pure horserace coverage that climed it was a distater for Obama?

    I strongly suspect the latter. The wildly over-the-top wailing and teeth-gnashing from Obama supporters like Sullivan undoubtedly helped push the media into a feeding frenzy. A somewhat low-information voter with whom I am acquainted watched the debate on YouTube knowing nothing about the media response told me she thought Obama came across perfectly well. She had no idea what all these panicky fools were talking about. If liberals had just kept their heads and resisted the media narrative about the debate, I’m not sure we’d be in this hole now. We are our own worst enemy sometimes.

  88. 88
    Richard says:

    Ryan’s a wank, not a womk.

  89. 89

    @catclub: Well done catclub! Cinquetitty indeed.

  90. 90
    stratplayer says:

    @The Other Bob:

    So how much of the drop in polls is related to the 70 million people who watched the debate and how much of the drop is related to the pure horserace coverage that climed it was a distater for Obama?

    I strongly suspect the latter. The wildly over-the-top wailing and teeth-gnashing from Obama supporters like Sullivan undoubtedly helped push the media into a feeding frenzy. A somewhat low-information voter with whom I am acquainted watched the debate on YouTube knowing nothing about the media response told me she thought Obama came across perfectly well. She had no idea what all these panicky fools were talking about. If liberals had just kept their heads and resisted the media narrative about the debate, I’m not sure we’d be in this hole now. We are our own worst enemy sometimes.

  91. 91
    Amir Khalid says:

    @catclub:
    Now I’m thinking of Eccentrica Gallumbits, who is two breasts short of sanctity.

  92. 92
    Richard says:

    Ryan’s a wank, not a womk.

  93. 93
    stratplayer says:

    @The Other Bob:

    So how much of the drop in polls is related to the 70 million people who watched the debate and how much of the drop is related to the pure horserace coverage that climed it was a distater for Obama?

    I strongly suspect the latter. The wildly over-the-top wailing and teeth-gnashing from Obama supporters like Sullivan undoubtedly helped push the media into a feeding frenzy. A somewhat low-information voter with whom I am acquainted watched the debate on YouTube knowing nothing about the media response told me she thought Obama came across perfectly well. She had no idea what all these panicky fools were talking about. If liberals had just kept their heads and resisted the media narrative about the debate, I’m not sure we’d be in this hole now. We are our own worst enemy sometimes.

  94. 94
    Brachiator says:

    Republicans are going to try to do to Biden what they did with Gore, but isn’t going to work.

    Very true. Before the debates, a headline at the De Moines Register predicted, Biden will pit skill against Ryan’s quick wit.

    Ryan’s wit was not much in evidence, and now the Republicans are turning into WATBs. They got outfoxed, and not even claims of low expectations about Ryan’s performance can help them.

    One other thing from the Register piece was interesting:

    More viewers than usual may also tune in because they want to learn more about Ryan, who is still a relative unknown, said Mitchell McKinney, an associate professor at the University of Missouri.
    __
    “His performance will speak to one of those questions that is typically front and center in a vice presidential debate, and that is him demonstrating his fitness for the presidency,” said McKinney, who studies presidential debates and political communication.

    Anybody know what the ratings were?

    Gore comes across as a stuffy prick, so his sighing and forced hisrionics were easy to demagogue.

    Yep. Stuffiness is sometimes an asset in a prick, less so in a politician.

    Yeah, Joe was being Joe, and his authenticity helped big time.

  95. 95
    Suffern ACE says:

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent): The other thing they did in 2004 was put Dan Rather’s head on a pike. That will kind of dampen pushback.

  96. 96
    Amir Khalid says:

    @catclub:
    Now I’m thinking of Eccentrica Gallumbits, who is two breasts short of sanctity.

  97. 97
    blingee says:

    @Z. Mulls: I as getting so fucking sick and tired of reading from all you experts who think they can give some advice to Obama about how to be President or to do a Presidential debate.

  98. 98
    Brachiator says:

    Republicans are going to try to do to Biden what they did with Gore, but isn’t going to work.

    Very true. Before the debates, a headline at the De Moines Register predicted, Biden will pit skill against Ryan’s quick wit.

    Ryan’s wit was not much in evidence, and now the Republicans are turning into WATBs. They got outfoxed, and not even claims of low expectations about Ryan’s performance can help them.

    One other thing from the Register piece was interesting:

    More viewers than usual may also tune in because they want to learn more about Ryan, who is still a relative unknown, said Mitchell McKinney, an associate professor at the University of Missouri.
    __
    “His performance will speak to one of those questions that is typically front and center in a vice presidential debate, and that is him demonstrating his fitness for the presidency,” said McKinney, who studies presidential debates and political communication.

    Anybody know what the ratings were?

    Gore comes across as a stuffy prick, so his sighing and forced hisrionics were easy to demagogue.

    Yep. Stuffiness is sometimes an asset in a prick, less so in a politician.

    Yeah, Joe was being Joe, and his authenticity helped big time.

  99. 99
    Richard says:

    Ryan’s a wank, not a wonk.

  100. 100
    Brachiator says:

    Republicans are going to try to do to Biden what they did with Gore, but isn’t going to work.

    Very true. Before the debates, a headline at the De Moines Register predicted, Biden will pit skill against Ryan’s quick wit.

    Ryan’s wit was not much in evidence, and now the Republicans are turning into WATBs. They got outfoxed, and not even claims of low expectations about Ryan’s performance can help them.

    One other thing from the Register piece was interesting:

    More viewers than usual may also tune in because they want to learn more about Ryan, who is still a relative unknown, said Mitchell McKinney, an associate professor at the University of Missouri.
    __
    “His performance will speak to one of those questions that is typically front and center in a vice presidential debate, and that is him demonstrating his fitness for the presidency,” said McKinney, who studies presidential debates and political communication.

    Anybody know what the ratings were?

    Gore comes across as a stuffy prick, so his sighing and forced hisrionics were easy to demagogue.

    Yep. Stuffiness is sometimes an asset in a prick, less so in a politician.

    Yeah, Joe was being Joe, and his authenticity helped big time.

  101. 101
    Amir Khalid says:

    @catclub:
    Now I’m thinking of Eccentrica Gallumbits, who is two breasts short of sanctity.

  102. 102
    sherparick says:

    Unfortunately, it should never be forgotten that Brooks, the Heilman’s, the Joe Klein’s and Mark Halperin’s, and all the talking heads on broadcast and cable TV (outside of Current) are rich, very rich, or wannabe rich. Although they look askance at the Tea Party primitives who now constitute the majority of the Republican party, they really do appreciate how those tax cuts for the 1% goes directly into their pockets and how much of those $50 thousand dollar speaker fees they have to shell out in taxes. This is very different then the media late 1960 and 1970s, before salaries of the “talent” exploded. Most made what was considered an “upper middle income salary.” And of course with tax rate on salary income of 70%, non-monetary perks, liberal expense accounts, and honors were the way most felt awarded by their work.

    I am old enough to remember the NPR of the 1970s, which was almost Pacifica Radio radical, even though its correspondents were a young Cokie Roberts, Susan Stamberg, and Robert Siegel among others. So the effect of age, big speaker fees, and high six figures to seven figures annual incomes should not be underestimated.

  103. 103
    Ding dong says:

    Here’s my problem with the msm coverage of Bidens performance. What was he supposed to do? If he acted angry they would have called him angry. And unpresidential. Just talking straight doesn’t get through so treating the punk with contempt was Bidens only option.

  104. 104
    Richard says:

    Ryan’s a wank, not a wonk.

  105. 105
  106. 106
    Amir Khalid says:

    @catclub:
    Now I’m thinking of Eccentrica Gallumbits, who is two breasts short of sanctity.

  107. 107
    sherparick says:

    Unfortunately, it should never be forgotten that Brooks, the Heilman’s, the Joe Klein’s and Mark Halperin’s, and all the talking heads on broadcast and cable TV (outside of Current) are rich, very rich, or wannabe rich. Although they look askance at the Tea Party primitives who now constitute the majority of the Republican party, they really do appreciate how those tax cuts for the 1% goes directly into their pockets and how much of those $50 thousand dollar speaker fees they have to shell out in taxes. This is very different then the media late 1960 and 1970s, before salaries of the “talent” exploded. Most made what was considered an “upper middle income salary.” And of course with tax rate on salary income of 70%, non-monetary perks, liberal expense accounts, and honors were the way most felt awarded by their work.

    I am old enough to remember the NPR of the 1970s, which was almost Pacifica Radio radical, even though its correspondents were a young Cokie Roberts, Susan Stamberg, and Robert Siegel among others. So the effect of age, big speaker fees, and high six figures to seven figures annual incomes should not be underestimated.

  108. 108
    Ding dong says:

    Here’s my problem with the msm coverage of Bidens performance. What was he supposed to do? If he acted angry they would have called him angry. And unpresidential. Just talking straight doesn’t get through so treating the punk with contempt was Bidens only option.

  109. 109
    Amir Khalid says:

    @catclub:
    Now I’m thinking of Eccentrica Gallumbits, who is two breasts short of sanctity.

  110. 110
  111. 111
  112. 112
    Amir Khalid says:

    @catclub:
    Now I’m thinking of Eccentrica Gallumbits, who is two breasts short of sanctity.

  113. 113
    JWL says:

    I’ve never thought much of Biden, either (or the democratic party, for that matter). But Taibbi’s point is spot-on concerning his “performance”.

    After the 1980 election, I witnessed the death of political rhetoric as practiced by the democratic party. Biden proved last night that it’s long past time for democratic candidates to wise-up, stop pulling their punches, and begin to return fire. The days of democrats permitting the GOP to set the terms of engagement is an indulgence the United States can no longer afford.

  114. 114
    blingee says:

    @Z. Mulls: yawn…another random anonymous commenter who thinks they know better than the President how to be President and how to do a debate.

  115. 115
    stratplayer says:

    @The Other Bob:

    So how much of the drop in polls is related to the 70 million people who watched the debate and how much of the drop is related to the pure horserace coverage that climed it was a distater for Obama?

    I strongly suspect the latter. The wildly over-the-top wailing and teeth-gnashing from Obama supporters like Sullivan undoubtedly helped push the media into a feeding frenzy. A somewhat low-information voter with whom I am acquainted watched the debate on YouTube knowing nothing about the media response told me she thought Obama came across perfectly well. She had no idea what all these panicky fools were talking about. If liberals had just kept their heads and made an effort to put the brakes on the media narrative before it spiraled out of control, I’m not sure we’d be in this hole now.

  116. 116
  117. 117
    stratplayer says:

    @The Other Bob:

    So how much of the drop in polls is related to the 70 million people who watched the debate and how much of the drop is related to the pure horserace coverage that climed it was a distater for Obama?

    I strongly suspect the latter. The wildly over-the-top wailing and teeth-gnashing from Obama supporters like Sullivan undoubtedly helped push the media into a feeding frenzy. A somewhat low-information voter with whom I am acquainted watched the debate on YouTube knowing nothing about the media response told me she thought Obama came across perfectly well. She had no idea what all these panicky fools were talking about. If liberals had just kept their heads and made an effort to put the brakes on the media narrative before it spiraled out of control, I’m not sure we’d be in this hole now.

  118. 118
    JWL says:

    I’ve never thought much of Biden, either (or the democratic party, for that matter). But Taibbi’s point is spot-on concerning his “performance”.

    After the 1980 election, I witnessed the death of political rhetoric as practiced by the democratic party. Biden proved last night that it’s long past time for democratic candidates to wise-up, stop pulling their punches, and begin to return fire. The days of democrats permitting the GOP to set the terms of engagement is an indulgence the United States can no longer afford.

  119. 119
    JWL says:

    I’ve never thought much of Biden, either (or the democratic party, for that matter). But Taibbi’s point is spot-on concerning his “performance”.

    After the 1980 election, I witnessed the death of political rhetoric as practiced by the democratic party. Biden proved last night that it’s long past time for democratic candidates to wise-up, stop pulling their punches, and begin to return fire. The days of democrats permitting the GOP to set the terms of engagement is an indulgence the United States can no longer afford.

  120. 120
    Montysano says:

    Slightly OT, but not really: who was the political genius who let Ryan’s douche-tastic workout photos hit the street the day before the debate, and where will they be working now that they’ve obviously been fired?

  121. 121
    stratplayer says:

    @The Other Bob:

    So how much of the drop in polls is related to the 70 million people who watched the debate and how much of the drop is related to the pure horserace coverage that climed it was a distater for Obama?

    I strongly suspect the latter. The wildly over-the-top wailing and teeth-gnashing from Obama supporters like Sullivan undoubtedly helped push the media into a feeding frenzy. A somewhat low-information voter with whom I am acquainted watched the debate on YouTube knowing nothing about the media response told me she thought Obama came across perfectly well. She had no idea what all these panicky fools were talking about. If liberals had just kept their heads and made an effort to put the brakes on the media narrative before it spiraled out of control, I’m not sure we’d be in this hole now.

  122. 122
    Amir Khalid says:

    @catclub:
    Now I’m thinking of Eccentrica Gallumbits, who is two breasts short of sanctity.

  123. 123
    Montysano says:

    Slightly OT, but not really: who was the political genius who let Ryan’s douche-tastic workout photos hit the street the day before the debate, and where will they be working now that they’ve obviously been fired?

  124. 124
    stratplayer says:

    @The Other Bob:

    So how much of the drop in polls is related to the 70 million people who watched the debate and how much of the drop is related to the pure horserace coverage that climed it was a distater for Obama?

    I strongly suspect the latter. The wildly over-the-top wailing and teeth-gnashing from Obama supporters like Sullivan undoubtedly helped push the media into a feeding frenzy. A somewhat low-information voter with whom I am acquainted watched the debate on YouTube knowing nothing about the media response told me she thought Obama came across perfectly well. She had no idea what all these panicky fools were talking about. If liberals had just kept their heads and made an effort to put the brakes on the media narrative before it spiraled out of control, I’m not sure we’d be in this hole now.

  125. 125
    Elizabelle says:

    @sherparick:

    So true. The top tier media has been corrupted by income, just as CEOs and CEO wannabes have been.

    Never forget.

  126. 126
    Amir Khalid says:

    Oh great. Now everyone thinks I’m obsessed with boobs.

  127. 127
    Marc says:

    The actual coverage of the debates seems more positive for Biden, largely along the lines of “Democrats loved the Biden that they saw last night.”

    That’s a very different take than “Joe was mean”

  128. 128
    Chyron HR says:

    This site is making me dizzy. Stop it.

  129. 129
    Violet says:

    Good lord. FYWP is working overtime today.

  130. 130
    trollhattan says:

    @Amir Khalid:
    [Bows in your general direction] You may have hit a new BJ-FYWP multi-post record. And such a popular and beloved topic. Am hoping the rotating ads are likewise on topic.

  131. 131

    God if I see one more of my conservative friends post proverbs 29:9 I am going to go to the top of the building and jump off.

    If these people thought Ryan NOT answering simple questions gave him a win, I give the fuck up.

  132. 132
    MikeBoyScout says:

    I’m so glad I chose to watch Joe kick Ly’n Ryan’s ass from here to Scranton and not watch my Stillers blow it.

    Gekko/Galt is the anvil
    We are the HAMMER!

    Hammer it home

  133. 133

    @Ding dong: If he had subdued himself they’d call him weak. He can’t win.

    I wish people would wake up and look at what Ryan DIDN’T say and ask why he can’t lay out anything to back up the rhetoric?

  134. 134
    Davis X. Machina says:

    @The Populist: Throw Matthew 25:31 right back at them.

  135. 135
    Yutsano says:

    @Amir Khalid: Well… ;)

    Nah. That was all FYWP.

  136. 136
    Brachiator says:

    @J. Michael Neal:

    There’s a downside to playing up Romney’s inconsistencies and it’s a big one. If what you emphasize is that Romney will say anything about his beliefs you open the door to all of those who badly WANT to think of him as a moderate who had to lie his way through the GOP primaries.

    This might be less of a problem than you think.

    First of all, despite Romney’s flip flops and inconsistencies, he is still articulating a clear rightwing policy. He can be attacked on the GOP plank and past governance, no matter what he has said and unsaid.

    Secondly, there is a clear pattern to Romney’s flip flops. He always walks back to the accepted Tea Party wingnut position.

    He can easily be put on the spot by specific questions. Will he appoint anti-Roe judges? Will he sit back and allow Republican governors to continue to attack women’s right to choose? Will he deport illegal immigrants? Will he back legislation to roll back gay rights? Will he rescind regulations which allow gays in the military?

    Or more directly, these questions can be framed as challenges, etc.

    There are all kinds of ways to neutralize Romney’s slippery lies, and to keep him from fooling people with his last minute attempt to dash toward the center.

  137. 137
    trollhattan says:

    @The Populist:
    The “wise man keeping-ith it in” sure worked well for the president last week, didn’t it?

  138. 138
    stratplayer says:

    Dammit! Sorry about the repeated posts! I kept trying to post it and I kept getting a server timeout error message. Now, suddenly they all appear! I hope someone can delete the excess postings so as to spare me further embarrassment.

  139. 139
    gogol's wife says:

    @stratplayer:

    Don’t worry, everybody here is used to it. It was a good comment.

  140. 140
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Yutsano:
    Not that I’m saying I ain’t, mind you …

  141. 141
    trollhattan says:

    WordPress+12

  142. 142

    @stratplayer:

    It’s OK. I was excited to see 19 posts quoting me for a second. I felt so validated.

  143. 143
    Unsympathetic says:

    When I have a few spare minutes, I like reloading Taibbi’s thread. It’s funny to see the racist/lying teatard commentaries go flying by.

  144. 144
    Suffern ACE says:

    @The Populist: And God Said “Do thou carest about the workers in the auto plants” and I said “My friend shows sympathy to people who have survived car crashes.” And God said “Well, o.k. then. I wish you wouldn’t talk using such obscure parables. I have no idea what you mean.”

  145. 145
    Auguste says:

    @pseudonymous in nc:

    Delaware senator. In other news, Iowa senators champion shitty farm bills and California senators champion shitty intellectual property bills.

    I get it, but: He fucked over the poor/hanging-in-there middle class. Fuck him on that issue, no matter what state he’s from.

  146. 146
    Yutsano says:

    @Amir Khalid: There’s really nothing wrong with it either way. It would just be a rather ribald statement from you. :)

  147. 147
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    Ryan is such a fucking tool, and the Village loves him so. All this brainless High Broderism crap.

  148. 148
    beltane says:

    And here we have the real source of the Republican whining http://www.politico.com/blogs/.....38330.html Apparently the most watched moment of the debate was Biden talking about Romney’s infamous 47% comments.

    We must never forget that while it’s OK to paint Romney as a flip-flopper it has to always be pointed out that his flips and flops are all in the service of his vision for America, a new, ugly America whose foundations will be built on the ground up bones of the former middle class.

  149. 149
    trollhattan says:

    Sure wish Benen had a top-tier national platform (Douthat’s seathigh-chair, for example). His Chronicling Mitt’s Mendacity series is essential reading. Exhausting, but essential.

    1. At a town-hall forum in Mount Vernon, Ohio, Romney said of President Obama, “He said he was going to cut the deficit in half; he’s doubled it.”
    __
    Romney is still having trouble with the definition of “double.” The deficit on Obama’s first day was $1.3 trillion. Last year, it was also $1.3 trillion. This year, it’s projected to be $1.1 trillion. When he says the president “doubled” the deficit, as he has many times, Romney’s lying.

    http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_n.....ol-xxxviii

  150. 150
    Auguste says:

    @The Populist: The irony about Proverbs 29:9 is that several translations make it pretty clear that it’s the wise man who should rage and laugh, thought it will do him no good:

    “If a wise man contendeth with a foolish man, whether he rageth or laugheth, there is no rest.”

    Or as the “Clarke’s Commentary on the Bible” points out,

    Whether he rage or laugh – Coverdale translates, “Yf a wyse man go to lawe with a foole, whether he deale with him frendly or roughly he geteth no rest.”

    It’s very, very telling that it’s only in modern times that the translations have focused on the fool as being the rager/laugher. Projection is a hell of a drug.

  151. 151
    Violet says:

    @stratplayer: Never try to post it a comment more than once. The first one will show up eventually if there’s a server time out.

  152. 152
    Someguy says:

    Biden modeled how you should always talk to a Republican. Laugh at them, interrupt, sneer, mock them.

    You aren’t going to change their mind but it makes others realize what a bunch of childish little clowns they are when they lose composure and can’t respond intelligently.

  153. 153
    Palli says:

    @SFAW: Correction: If Blackwell had not been a Republican and the Secretary of State in Ohio (in that order) Kerry would have been President. Planes from the sky.

  154. 154

    @Someguy: Agreed. It is much better when they know that we know they’re bullshitting. Desperate pivots to tone or process or elitism just are further tells.

  155. 155
    Chris says:

    @WarMunchkin:

    I actually disagree with the “great questions” aspect. I was extremely surprised by her designation of Iran as America’s biggest national security threat. That’s a pretty big assumption that needs to be explained before being used.

    I agree. Iran didn’t blow up the Twin Towers and I kind of wish the MSM would keep that in mind from time to time.

  156. 156
    stratplayer says:

    @Violet:

    Never try to post it a comment more than once. The first one will show up eventually if there’s a server time out.

    Really? That’s never happened to me before with this particular error message. I’ve had comments double post before but not the way it happened here. I should have taken a screen shot of the actual error message so I could try to figure out what happened. I’m far from a neophyte so this is quite perplexing.

  157. 157
    NR says:

    @stratplayer: Obama can’t fail, he can only be failed, eh?

  158. 158
    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism says:

    Should I assume y’all have seen the effort to buy Uncle Joe a Trans-Am?

  159. 159
    beltane says:

    @Chris: Iraq also wasn’t responsible for 9/11 but the media worked hard to convince Americans it was. Now that it’s ancient history it shouldn’t be hard to convince these same Americans that Iran did it, especially since the percentage of our fellow countrymen who don’t know the difference between Iran and Iraq is probably alarmingly high. What’s a ‘Q’ between friends anyway?

  160. 160
    Chyron HR says:

    @NR:

    Let us know when you manage to come up with a political philosophy you didn’t get off that sandwich board Bruce Willis wore in Die Hard 3.

  161. 161
    Svensker says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    You mean, you’re not?

  162. 162
    stratplayer says:

    @NR: I never said Obama was perfect. I just question the conventional wisdom that he was absolutely, irredeemably abominable, and how that conventional wisdom came about and was reinforced by liberal hysteria.

  163. 163
    McJulie says:

    I wish I were not paranoid enough to think of stuff like this, but:

    What if the powers-that-be were going to let Romney lose when it looked like the economy was going to continue limping along, but improved job numbers mean they’re ready to take over again?

    They can’t actually win on honest voting — but they can steal a close election, so they’re doing everything in their power to 1. get it close enough to steal, and 2. create narrative cover for the win.

    This is the follow-up to my paranoid belief four years ago that, just maybe, they let Obama win because they knew everything was going to hell.

  164. 164

    […] Balloon Juice » Blog Archive » Taibbi Nails It This entry was posted in Uncategorized and tagged biden, convince-you, despite-what, last-night, […]

  165. 165

    @Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: Uncle Joe’s on record as being a Corvette man, I think.

  166. 166
    Violet says:

    @stratplayer: Maybe it was a new/different message from the ones I usually see? In my experience, if an attempt to post a comment times out, it will frequently post twice, even though it never looks like it has posted and the message is some sort of server time out or whatever.

    If I press the back button and attempt to post it again (and again, etc.), it will also post all those times, even if the post looks like it’s not posting/is timing out.

    I’ve given up doing the stuff I just mentioned in the second paragraph, and my posts always seem to show up just fine, even thought I only press “Submit Comment” once and end up with the little circle going round and round on the tab and eventually it timing out to an error message.

    Maybe your experience has been different? Or something was different in this instance?

  167. 167
    stratplayer says:

    @NR: You didn’t read my post very carefully, did you? It cracks me up how so many conservatives actually believe the myth that liberals are all mindless Obama-worshiping zombies. You don’t know shit about us.

  168. 168
    trollhattan says:

    @ranchandsyrup:
    Gotta go with America’s Finest News Source here.

    http://www.theonion.com/articl.....4/?slide=8

  169. 169

    @trollhattan: Yeah, I love that. The Onion Joe Biden has muscled his way onto my “Which 4 people would you like to have dinner with” list. Here’s real Joe Biden’s response to Onion Joe Biden where he talks about his 67 Vette.
    http://whitehouse.blogs.cnn.co.....te-wheels/

  170. 170
    gelfling545 says:

    @MikeJ: I’ve come to the conclusion that they aren’t really undecided so much as that they know Romney is a complete disaster but they are hoping to find some excuse to vote republican anyway.

  171. 171
    Bill E Pilgrim says:

    @J. Michael Neal: Oy.

    You guys crack me up.

    You can mathematically measure how much shit that someone generally regarded as brilliant will get here by exactly how critical he’s ever been of Obama or, in this case, Biden.

    Taibbi can write circles around anyone I’ve ever read at this site, bar none, and does research far in excess of what anyone here does, not to mention most of the blogosphere.

    It’s like when people were slamming Krugman for being “naive”, that happened here constantly at one point.

  172. 172
    trollhattan says:

    @ranchandsyrup:
    That whole piece is win.

    “So I jumped on that sucker and laid rubber. A great feeling. That thing could probably beat my Corvette.”
    Willard’s the “car guy”?

  173. 173
    Chris says:

    @Chyron HR:

    Let us know when you manage to come up with a political philosophy you didn’t get off that sandwich board Bruce Willis wore in Die Hard 3.

    “I hate everyone”? :D

    Fucking TV censorship.

  174. 174
    trollhattan says:

    @gelfling545:
    Four years ago I had numerous conversations with friends and scquaintences who’d reflexively vote for McCain except, when pushed admitted they couldn’t, because of Palin. Will be curious whether any of them will hold similar thoughts about Ryan, but am afraid I already know the answer.

  175. 175

    @trollhattan: Willard’s dad was the car guy.
    After last night, the Real Joe Biden may have cracked the “dinner” list as well. The Onion wrap-up made my face hurt from laughing so much last night and is still making me laugh today.
    http://www.theonion.com/articl.....-in,29887/

  176. 176
    burnspbesq says:

    @catclub:

    Tres bien fait.

  177. 177
    Chris says:

    @trollhattan:

    Four years ago I had numerous conversations with friends and scquaintences who’d reflexively vote for McCain except, when pushed admitted they couldn’t, because of Palin.

    I was one of those.

    Had been a “moderate Democrat” forever, but was still naive enough to think the Republican Party might moderate itself, and doubly naive enough to think McCain was the kind of person who could do that. (After all, everyone says he’s a moderate, and he was against torture, etc…)

    The economic crisis/Palin selection was the double event that pushed me into “severely liberal” status. The Palin selection is when I realized it wouldn’t matter even if he was a moderate, he’d have to do so much to keep the freaks happy that he’d never govern as one anyway. Late realization, but better late than never…

  178. 178
    burnspbesq says:

    @Bill E Pilgrim:

    Krugman would be the first person to tell you that he’s politically non-savvy. It’s part of his schtick to put forth the economically correct answer with absolutely no regard for whether it’s politically feasible. And that’s fine.

  179. 179
    Bill E Pilgrim says:

    @WarMunchkin: He’s critical of Barack Obama.

    Having every single issue filtered through this fan worship of Obama is just so boring and predictable. Not saying everyone does that, John doesn’t for example, but enough others that it’s really annoying.

  180. 180
    Tonal Crow says:

    From a previous thread, in which it was asked:

    How do you debate a guy who just lies and lies and lies?

    “There you go again, Mitt. Look, you can go on promising that unicorns will fly out of your ass and bless every American with 3 mansions, 2 SUVs, and a partridge in a pear tree, but the fact is you’re just lying. Again and again. That shows not just dishonesty, but contempt for our intelligence. Further, it shows that you’re unqualified to be President. Blather all you want. We have work to do.”

  181. 181
    trollhattan says:

    @ranchandsyrup:
    Lordy, great stuff.

    Nearly locked my eyes rolling them skyward last night when Ryan tried to frame Willard as a car guy–because he hung with dad the car guy. Know what, that makes me a jet builder builder because my dad was a Boeing guy.

    More shameless was Santorum, who had to dig back to grandad for the coal miner cred. Again, and again, and again with the coal miner. No, Rick, Charles Pierce know what you are.

  182. 182
    NR says:

    @Chyron HR: What are you babbling about now?

    Oh, I get it. It’s the good old “Everyone who criticizes Obama is a racist.” Thanks for illustrating just how intellectually and morally bankrupt you guys are.

  183. 183
    NR says:

    @stratplayer: It doesn’t take a conservative to see that there’s a cult-like level of devotion to Obama on the left. Why else would so many on the left continue to support him even as he implements Republican policy after Republican policy?

  184. 184
    Agoraphobic Kleptomaniac says:

    I’m sorry but the best part of all of this (i’m sure this point has been made in this 200 comment thread) is that Republicans are eating their own crow by painting Biden as a gaffe-prone moron who is loud and will say dumb things, and now that he’s been loud and said Non-dumb things, the loud part of the attack rings hollow and sounds hackish and defensive.

    Joe Biden knows his shit, and his style is his own, but he now owns it, and the substance of his attacks ring louder and truer the longer you bitch about him being a moron and the longer he fails to be one.

  185. 185
    Dr. Morpheus says:

    Pete and Repeat were posting on a blog

    Pete logged out, who was left?

    Pete and Repeat were posting on a blog

    Pete logged out, who was left?

    Pete and Repeat were posting on a blog

    Pete logged out, who was left?

    Pete and Repeat were posting on a blog

    Pete logged out, who was left?

    Pete and Repeat were posting on a blog

    Pete logged out, who was left?

    Pete and Repeat were posting on a blog

    Pete logged out, who was left?

    Pete and Repeat were posting on a blog

    Pete logged out, who was left?

    Pete and Repeat were posting on a blog

    Pete logged out, who was left?

    Pete and Repeat were posting on a blog

    Pete logged out, who was left?

    Pete and Repeat were posting on a blog

    Pete logged out, who was left?

  186. 186
    Agoraphobic Kleptomaniac says:

    @NR: Need better trolls already. Do we need to go hire a thinktank to raise these trolls in vats now? They’re so tired and mundane.

  187. 187
    Redshift says:

    @NR:

    It doesn’t take a conservative to see that there’s a cult-like level of devotion to Obama on the left.

    Actually, it seems to. In pretty much every arena, you guys are the ones who are so adept at seeing things that aren’t there.

  188. 188
    Auguste says:

    @NR: First of all, he MAINTAINS some Republican policies, not implements them. Unless you count DADT repeal as a Republican policy simply because DADT was a Democratic one.

    But granted: Many of his actions are not good ones. Drones, first and foremost.

    He’s still WAY better than the alternative.

    If that makes me cult-like, then I guess I’m going to have to admit to…calling you full of shit and false equivalencies.

  189. 189
    Hill Dweller says:

    @NR: Who or what is your alternative?

  190. 190
    NR says:

    @Redshift: That must be the same talent that allows you guys to see the implementation of Republican policy as some sort of grand progressive triumph.

  191. 191
    Chris says:

    @Agoraphobic Kleptomaniac:

    Speaking of gaffes, I’m surprised more of them aren’t picking up on the “Syria is geographically five times larger than Libya” gaffe. Only time in the evening that I detected an opportunity for an anti-Biden soundbite.

    Or perhaps not so strange, if you assume that they probably didn’t realize he was making a mistake.

  192. 192
    Chris says:

    @NR:

    It doesn’t take a conservative to see that there’s a cult-like level of devotion to Obama on the left.

    Having seen how often this blog turned into an Obot vs Firebagger free-fire-zone in the last four years (or at least the two since I’ve been here), I have to say… WTF? The “Obots” might have the upper hand here, but there are other blogs where they don’t.

    (I don’t remember anything remotely like it from conservative blogs during the Bush years, incidentally).

  193. 193
    trollhattan says:

    Gosh, without The Onion I’d have completely missed Biden’s debate Tweets.

    Why doesn’t the backstage bathroom have a plunger? It’s not going to be Uncle Joe’s fault if the toilet can’t handle what he’s giving.
    __
    Leather jacket lookin good, but think these tight leather pants are giving me serious nut rash # debates
    __
    I’m giggling because I’m fucking blazed # debates
    __
    Time for a quick story about that Wisconsin woman named Janna Ryan who never experienced an orgasm # debates
    __
    Took most of the debate, but check out what I just carved into the table with my jackknife ow.ly/i/112Sq

    http://www.theonion.com/articl.....-du,29888/

  194. 194
    priscianusjr says:

    @scott:

    I know as good rationalists (and clearly the president sees himself in this way) we’re supposed to credit the opposition’s good faith and earnestly but fairly point out their logical and factual shortcomings in the search for truth. But all that is wasted and a dangerous diversion if the opposition isn’t interested in truth.

    Life 101: The minute you know somebody is fucking with you, ditch the rules. Because they already did.

  195. 195
    NR says:

    @Chris: In large part, I’m talking about here. Any liberal who dares to suggest that Obama does not deserve full and complete support gets called anything and everything from a monster to a racist. There are people here who see criticizing Obama from the left as a greater sin than killing children (check the drone threads for examples of this). That’s fucked up, and suggests a cult-like devotion to the man that’s way past creepy.

  196. 196
    stratplayer says:

    @NR:

    Why else would so many on the left continue to support him even as he implements Republican policy after Republican policy?

    You mean like the ACA? That, including the individual mandate, was a Republican idea until it wasn’t. And we on the “left” don’t have to support all of his policies lockstep in order to support his presidency overall. I really don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about, and no one else here does, either. You seem to have an endless supply of nonsense to pull out of your capacious ass.

  197. 197
    priscianusjr says:

    @WarMunchkin:

    The abortion question was also not a question about abortion, it was a question meant to attack Biden, “How can you justify going against your religion on [insert issue here]?”.

    It wasn’t meant to attack Biden. It was just a provocative (in the journalistic sense) way of getting into the issuing, based on the fact that both Biden and Ryan are male Catholics, yet obviously have entirely different takes on abortion. This was a debate, after all. I thought it was a good question for debate, and it sure as hell received a good answer from Biden. And by the way, he is not going against his religion, and he made that clear.

  198. 198
    trollhattan says:

    @stratplayer:
    The memory is not so good with this one. ACA, as well as DADT, Iraq, CAFE standards, that bloody pipeline, the stimulus, two SCOTUS justices….

    Not shabby, never enough, but let’s not forget Mich McConnell and the Republican house biting his ankles with every step.

  199. 199
    dogwood says:

    @NR:

    That’s fucked up, and suggests a cult-like devotion to the man that’s way past creepy.

    I agree, and I find your tedious cult-like hatred of the president equally fucked up and “way past creepy.”

  200. 200
    NR says:

    @dogwood: Fail. I don’t hate Obama. But thank you for illustrating another cult-like attitude: If you don’t love Obama, you must hate him. Sound familiar? “If you’re not with us, you’re against us” anyone?

  201. 201
    Rex Everything says:

    @Bill E Pilgrim: Word. If Taibbi were to blog for a few weeks about how great POTUS was, the Balloon Juice commenters would suddenly discern the profoundest depths of wisdom in his masterful prose, deeming his rigorous arguments to constitute wonkery at its most lucid.

    As things stand, he’s OK but bush league; he can’t turn a phrase like, y’know, T-Bogg, or articulate a point like Imani Gandy, or construct a metaphor like Tom Levenson (whose reservoirs can puncture things, man!)… Party hacks have always & everywhere been like this.

  202. 202
    priscianusjr says:

    @NR:

    There are people here who see criticizing Obama from the left as a greater sin than killing children (check the drone threads for examples of this).

    Look, this is not an abstract discussion. There’s an election coming up in a few weeks, have you heard about it? Either you’re voting for Obama or you’re not. Either you want other people to vote for Obama, or you don’t. If you’re not, and you don’t, and you call yourself “Left”, then you can fuck off.

  203. 203
    Enhanced Mooching Techniques says:

    @NR: Vote for Romney then.

  204. 204
    NR says:

    @Enhanced Mooching Techniques: Luckily, Romney isn’t the only other candidate in the race.

  205. 205
    stratplayer says:

    @NR: Who’s giving Obama “full and complete support?” What does that even mean? I’m sure you don’t mean that voting for one candidate over another means you support every single position the candidate of your choice takes. Have you ever heard of the “strawman” fallacy?

  206. 206
    Enhanced Mooching Techniques says:

    @NR: This is the United States, not Europe NR. Thank you for playing.

  207. 207
    Joel says:

    People, stop feeding the troll. Please.

  208. 208
    Herbal Infusion Bagger says:

    Pete and Repeat were posting on a blog
    Pete logged out, who was left?

    Bruce Nauman.

  209. 209
    stratplayer says:

    @Joel:

    People, stop feeding the troll. Please.

    We’re not so much feeding him as we are feeding on him. Or maybe just toying with our prey like cats.

  210. 210
    dogwood says:

    I was out of town and missed both debates, and I’m just now catching up here on all the hysterics. Despite all the hand wringing, Romney still has a pretty daunting task in front of him. He has to flip 9 states to eke out a win. The only Obama win from last time that isn’t being contested is Indiana. Unless all the polls from the swing states now show Romney with a decent lead, he is still behind. Obama can lose Fla, NC, Va, Ohio, and even Wis. and still win if he hangs on in iowa, NH, Co, and Nev. The elephant in the room that no pundit will talk about is the fact that there are no traditionally blue states that are starting to trend in the other direction (unless Wisconsin is in play because of Ryan). Outside of Iowa and NH, all of the contested battlegrounds are consistently Republican states. Republicans begin the presidential electoral process 45-50 ev’s behind, and are scrambling to hang on to their own territory. This isn’t going to change in the near future.

  211. 211
    Triassic Sands says:

    Excessive behavior from Joe Biden.

    Impossible. (The guy’s past makes it virtually impossible for him to exceed the expected standard of behavior for him.

    I listened to the debate on the radio, so I didn’t see any of the eye-rolling or sneering, but I could hear it in Joe’s tone and some of his words. And, yes, I agree that Ryan deserves flat-out contempt. It would be nice if the middle-of-the-roaders and undecideds understood just what flim-flam men Ryan and Romney are.

  212. 212
    Rex Everything says:

    @priscianusjr: I’m voting for Obama/Biden and I want other people to vote for Obama/Biden. But I don’t think criticizing the ticket equals dissuading others from voting for it.

    Take the Social Security issue. I feel that Biden should have pointed out yesterday that SS is eminently solvent. That to refer to it as “bankrupt” is to tell a fuckin’ lie. I want to criticize him for letting that lie slide, because he and Obama should be running as aggressively as possible on this issue, BECAUSE IT IS A WINNER FOR THEM.

    I think people should point this out on their Twitter feeds and their Facebook statuses and refer their friends to this article at every opportunity.

    This is criticism of the Dem ticket. And the motivation for my criticism, and the point, is that I want Obama to win big.

    (BTW, I feel like voting for Obama IN SPITE OF your and Enhanced Mooching Techniques’ and dogwood’s abrasive ranting. The party faithful might like it, but those who might waver? You’ll only alienate them further with that shit.)

  213. 213
    Triassic Sands says:

    There was one predictable, but still glaring omission in last night’s debate. Just like in the presidential debate Medicaid was strangely absent from the discussion. I checked the debate transcript and the only time the word was mentioned was when Biden called for Medicare Part D to be allowed to “bargain for the cost of drugs.”

    Otherwise, not a single word. And no mention, so far, by either Democrat of the devastating cuts Romney has planned for Medicaid.

    One could almost get the feeling that Obama no longer even pretends to be the last line of defense for poor and disabled Americans.

    Further, American ignorance about Medicaid is appalling. Medicare gets all the press, but Medicaid is where the real money is. That’s because it is providing care for 1 in 5 Americans — most prominently, the disabled and elderly in nursing homes. Romney’s plan for Medicaid will effectively destroy the program and leave millions of Americans — those least able to take the hit — without adequate (or even barely adequate) care.
    The idea that President Johnson, who created Medicaid, would ignore the poor and disabled the way current Democrats have is unthinkable.

    Nowhere is the real Mitt Romney more apparent than in his plans for Medicaid. Yet, neither Obama, nor Biden went after Romney (or Ryan) for their plan to gut the program.

    WTF? Not even lip service.

  214. 214

    @Bill E Pilgrim:

    Taibbi can write circles around anyone I’ve ever read at this site, bar none, and does research far in excess of what anyone here does, not to mention most of the blogosphere.
    It’s like when people were slamming Krugman for being “naive”, that happened here constantly at one point.

    In fact, my current beef with Taibbi is that he seems to be turning into something like a libertarian goldbug on monetary policy. He reposts stuff off Zero Hedge. He’d be the first person to call Krugman naive.

  215. 215
    Rex Everything says:

    @Triassic Sands: Vote for Romney then, & fuck off; Democrats have no use for you!

    Sorry, I just wanted to see how it felt being a mindless tool typical Balloon Juicer. Must say I can’t see the appeal, but the kids seem to like it.

  216. 216
    dogwood says:

    @Rex Everything:

    (

    BTW, I feel like voting for Obama IN SPITE OF your and Enhanced Mooching Techniques’ and dogwood’s abrasive ranting.

    Wow, a post about Romney’s electoral deficit is an “abrasive” rant?

  217. 217
    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism says:

    @ranchandsyrup: It’s a reference to an Onion story. Biden can’t accept that kind of gift anyway, but they’re hoping to buy the car, get Joe to take some pics with it, then auction it for charity.

  218. 218
    Rex Everything says:

    @dogwood: No, but accusing someone who disagrees with you of “cult-like hatred of the president” is.

  219. 219
    James K. Polk, Esq. says:

    @Rex Everything:

    The party faithful might like it, but those who might waver? You’ll only alienate them further with that shit

    Honestly?

    You need to work on this trolling, it’s super weak sauce.

    There are NO people reading this blog that aren’t FIRMLY committed to their side. Ascorbic verbage isn’t changing anyone’s opinion’s around here.

  220. 220
    Rex Everything says:

    @James K. Polk, Esq.:

    Honestly?

    Honestly.

    You need to work on this trolling, it’s super weak sauce.

    And here I was going for semi-ultra to fully-mid-preter weak sauce.

    There are NO people reading this blog that aren’t FIRMLY committed to their side.

    It must be NICE, not to mention CONVENIENT, to be omniscient.

  221. 221
    weaselone says:

    @Chris:

    If I recall correctly, Biden noticed his mistake and indicated that Libya was actually the larger nation geographically. He went on to emphasize Syria’s larger population and greater population density. I suspect that’s why the gaffe isn’t being exploited, because Biden noticed and corrected it within the debate.

  222. 222
    SFAW says:

    @Palli:

    Blackwell was only part of the problem. But I’m also pretty quick to blame St. Ralph the Pure for 2000, so I guess I should concede the point.

  223. 223
    dogwood says:

    @Rex Everything:

    No, but accusing someone who disagrees with you of “cult-like hatred of the president” is.

    OK, now I get it. NR calls people on this blog “cult-like” and “creepy”, and you’re fine with that. But if someone calls him the same it’s “abrasive.” Sort of like Romney being aggressive is heralded and Biden being aggressive is rude. Always a double standard..

  224. 224
    AHH onna Droid says:

    @Chris: Yeah, that got me until I realized it was vice versa. His leadup was garbled, a ‘u didn’t build that’ gaffe. Surprised the mod didn’t correct. Mebbe she knew what he meant. Ryan likely was thinking about how to roll out his next whopper and missed it.

  225. 225
    Rex Everything says:

    @dogwood:

    NR calls people on this blog “cult-like” and “creepy”, and you’re fine with that.

    If they are in fact being cultlike and creepy. The mindless tu quoque is always abrasive.

    Sort of like Romney being aggressive is heralded and Biden being aggressive is rude.

    No, not really like that at all. (Besides, FWIW, Biden was being rude. And as the article that occasioned this post pointed out, his rudeness was totally appropriate.)

  226. 226
  227. 227
    SFAW says:

    Calling Mitt a “car guy” because he’s the son of the man whose car company produced the Pacer, Gremlin, Matador, and Hornet (to name a few) is like calling Ed Wood’s son a “film guy.”

    [Disclaimer: I have a shitload more respect for George Romney than I do for his idiot son. At least George actually ran a company that built something, as opposed to tearing companies down. And George had more integrity in his left nut than 10 Mitts have in their entire bodies. Mitt a “car guy”? No, Carroll Shelby was a car guy, Enzo Ferrari was a car guy, Mitt’s just a mean, entitled prick who owns a bunch of cars.]

  228. 228
    Drew says:

    Nails it except for the “never thought much of” part. Sorry for your observational shortcomings.

  229. 229
    Kane says:

    First they said that they didn’t want to provide specifics about their tax plan to the public because their opponents would use the information against them. Then they said that they couldn’t provide specifics to the public because unlike every other tax plan in the history of tax plans, theirs can’t be scored under traditional Congressional Budget-scoring rules. Then they said that they can’t provide specifics to the public because they simply don’t have the time to explain their plan. Now they are claiming that it wouldn’t be prudent to provide specifics to the public because it would inhibit them from working with congress.

    Why anyone is buying this is beyond me.

  230. 230
    SFAW says:

    @Kane:

    Why anyone is buying this is beyond me.

    As has been ‘splained many times here: 27 percent of the electorate is certifiably insane, and they’re all Rethug supporters. Another 20-plus have the IQ of a dead carp. (I expect there is some overlap between these two groups, but my research does not provide a clear answer.) They, too, are Rethug (and some Blue Dog) supporters.

    The Rethug plan of ending our long, national nightmare of an educated populace is almost complete. Gilead, here we come!

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