Malarkey

You won’t be surprised that the fainting couches got some pretty heavy duty use at the Corner last night. I do hope they put the plastic covers on first because I imagine it’s hard to get the stains out after 15 wingnuts have crapped themselves.

Over there there is very little about Ryan and his arguments. Rather they have post after post about how Biden was an oleaginous demagogue (Charles R Kesler), bizarrely impertinent (Michael Knox Beran), buffoonish (Victor Davis Hanson), a bully (Kathryn Jean Lopez), disgracefully rude (David Limbaugh – there’s another fucking Limbaugh? Why the fuck wasn’t I told?) and appalling and sophomoric (Rich Lowry).

All they have is screeching about how Uncle Joe had the gall to actually engage in debate in a fucking debate. Well, that and the CNN poll they are all trumpeting – a national poll with a grand total of 381 respondents, a higher than usual number of Republicans and a margin of error of 5%, which Congressman, sorry, Mr Ryan still only managed to win by 48% to 44%.

While the Village will almost certainly enable the wingnut freak-out, the reality as shown in the transcript is that Ryan sat there and spluttered and dissembled like a smug teenager who’s been caught puffing on a joint, while Biden hit him with facts on topic after topic, in between taking every opportunity to stick on the shiv (Sarah Palin and Jack Kennedy, anyone?).

There are so many parts of the transcript that I want to read over and over – Ryan again being incapable of explaining how he and Romney would pay for their tax cuts, Ryan admitting that they wouldn’t be able stop Iran getting a nuclear bomb in the first two months of a Romney presidency and that he was all for the US being involved in at least two more wars in the Middle East, Ryan saying that he really, truly wanted troops out of Afghanistan in 2014 as long as we didn’t tell anyone that we were leaving and then trying to explain this strange concept of “winter” to us all.

However, I just want to leave you with two sections that give me great pleasure, where Biden managed to pin the Congressman as the lying, hypocritical, stick-legged granny-starver that he is. These are beautiful, so I will let Uncle Joe speak for himself. Oh, and Joe, anytime you want to rent a Trans-Am and go do burnouts on Mitt’s front lawn, give me a call.

First, on the stimulus:

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: — months and months. They found no evidence of cronyism. And I love my friend here. I — I’m not allowed to show letters, but go on our website: He sent me two letters saying, by the way, can you send me some stimulus money for companies here in the state of Wisconsin? We sent millions of dollars. You know why he said he needed —

MS. RADDATZ: You did ask for stimulus money, correct?

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: Sure he did. By the way — (inaudible) —

REP. RYAN: On two occasions, we — we — we advocated for constituents who were applying for grants.

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: (Chuckles.)

REP. RYAN: That’s what we do. We do that for all constituents who are — (inaudible) — for grants.

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: I love that. I love that. This is such a bad program, and he writes me a letter saying — writes the Department of Energy a letter saying, the reason we need this stimulus — it will create growth and jobs. He — his words. And now he’s sitting here looking at me — and by the way, that program — again, investigated — what the Congress said was, it was a model: less than four-tenths of 1 percent waste or fraud in the program. And all this talk about cronyism — they investigated, investigated; did not find one single piece of evidence. I wish he would just tell — be a little more candid.

and then on the economy where, instead of pointing out the sheer stupidity of Ryan telling an anecdote about people dying in a car crash during a debate with Joe Fucking Biden, Uncle Joe manages to tie up the 47 percent, George Bush, two wars, Mitt’s deathwish for the car industry and a heartless Republican congress into a beautiful little garland and then hang it around Ryan’s neck.

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: (Chuckles.) The idea, if you heard that — that little soliloquy on 47 percent, and you think he just made a mistake, then I think you’re — I — I — I — I — I got a bridge to sell you.

Look, I don’t doubt his personal generosity, and I understand what it’s like. When I was a little younger than the congressman, my wife was in an accident, killed my daughter and my wife, and my two sons survived. I have sat in the homes of many people who’ve gone through what I get through because the one thing you can give people solace is to know they know you’ve been through it, that they can make it. So I don’t doubt his personal commitment to individuals.

But you know what, I know he had no commitment to the automobile industry. He just let — he said, let it go bankrupt, period, let it drop out. All this talk — we saved a million jobs. Two hundred thousand people are working today. And I have never met two guys who are more down on America across the board. We’re told everything is going bad. We have 5.2 million new jobs, private sector jobs. We need more, but 5.2 million — if they’d get out of the way, if they get out of the way and let us pass the tax cut for the middle class, make it permanent, if they get out of the way and pass the — pass the jobs bill, if they get out of the way and let us allow 14 million people who are struggling to stay in their homes because their mortgages are upside-down, but they never missed a mortgage payment — just get out of the way.

Stop talking about how you care about people. Show me something. Show me a policy. Show me a policy where you take responsibility.

And by the way, they talk about this Great Recession if it fell out of the sky, like, oh my goodness, where did it come from? It came from this man voting to put two wars in a credit card, to at the same time put a prescription drug benefit on the credit card, a trillion- dollar tax cut for a — very wealthy. I was there. I voted against him. I said, no, we can’t afford that. And now all of a sudden these guys are so seized with a concern about the debt that they created.

I mean it Joe. Call me and I’m yours.






128 replies
  1. 1
    r€nato says:

    Amazing how all the liberal media polling suddenly became unskewed in the last 10 days.

  2. 2
    Poopyman says:

    I would imagine this has been covered before, but is that a Photoshop? Because I’m pretty sure the guy playing Goober Pyle died a couple of years ago.

  3. 3
    Cargo says:

    @r€nato: It’s about to all get skewed again!

    “Rude Biden” will be the meme going forward. Rude! Disrespectful! Oh my stars and garters! From the people who like to shout “You lie!” at the State of the Union speech.

  4. 4
    Liberty60 says:

    I mean it Joe. Call me and I’m yours.

    Gonna be a long line, I think.
    Hell, I am in it and I’m a straight guy.

  5. 5
    YellowJournalism says:

    Not since Paul Newman have I found an older man to appear so attractive.

    Too bad Newman is dead. He would have made a great Biden in the HBO movie.

  6. 6
    Hunter Gathers says:

    Awful lot of the complaineratin’ on the Facebook today. I missed the debate, but the complaineratin’ means that Ol’ Joe beat the shit out of Slater from Saved By The Bell.

  7. 7
    quannlace says:

    What a hoot. So many ‘serioius’ pundits complaining about Biden laughing too much?
    And not a comment about Ryan’s constant expression. If ever I wished I could punch someone through a tv screen, it was Ryan’s condescending, smug little smirk.

  8. 8
    GregB says:

    Did any of these cretinous shitheels ever see their shape shifting leader Mitt during the primary debates?

    Stock in fainting couches have gone through the roof.

  9. 9
    LGRooney says:

    Although Biden did vote for both the Afghanistan and Iraq wars. Did he express opposition to, or reservation in, not paying for them at the time and instead sticking the cost on future generations? I don’t know. He did vote for the conflicts, however.

    I love him, too. I think he kicked ass. I’d be happy to have him in the WH and I’m happy to have him as VP. But, he, as well as plenty other Ds we prefer to venerate, although hopefully not with a blind eye, voted for the nonsense in Iraq and, if you think like me, the nonsense in Afghanistan.

  10. 10
    Kadzimiel says:

    I love the smell of napalmed wingnuts in the morning.

  11. 11
    YellowJournalism says:

    @Hunter Gathers: He wishes it was Slater. Not even close.

  12. 12
    Yutsano says:

    Oh dear. You know your sexual ministrations would place poor old Uncle Joe into a coma. But he would go down smiling that’s for sure.

    @YellowJournalism: He looks and acts a lot more like Screech. With no offence intended to Dustin Diamond.

  13. 13
    Original Lee says:

    I’m sorry, but that photo of Ryan makes him look like a geezer who got Botoxed and a dye job. My father-in-law is 76 and his arms look younger than Ryan’s do. And the expression on his face – did he forget to put his teeth in or something?

    That whole section about the recession falling out of the sky was beautiful. It’s as if Biden had been listening in on my kitchen table discussions with my spouse. You go, Joe!

  14. 14
    LGRooney says:

    @quannlace: I had to step out for a smoke at one point b/c I was ready to boot his lying mug. Even though Biden checked him, I was still too enraged at the BS knowing that people would buy it and imagining the reaction to Biden showing this twerp who the smart one was.

  15. 15
    muddy says:

    I slept well last night for the first time in a week. Thanks, Joe! I don’t mean to be rude or disrespectful but it was so great I came 3 times.

  16. 16
    MazeDancer says:

    @Liberty60:

    Very, very, very long line, indeed.

    Last night on Twitter, as Mr. Biden crushed the not-ready-for-heartbeat-away-whippersnapper, there was a very consistent Feel the Veep Love evolution in people’s tweets. Basically ramped up along these lines:

    Yay, Joe
    GO JOE!!!
    I Love Joe Biden!
    I LOVE HIM! I LOVE HIM!!!
    Joe Biden, I want to kiss you!!!!!!
    Joe, Joe, Joe….Take me, I’m yours!!!!!

  17. 17
    shortstop says:

    Can’t get enough of Joe’s love.

  18. 18
    schrodinger's cat says:

    OT but important.
    Why have we not seen Tunch? Is he in hiding?

  19. 19
    LGRooney says:

    @Original Lee: He looks like a pale version of Big Bird and if Romney was a smarter man, he might be looking to cut this one’s funding, too.

  20. 20
    LittlePig says:

    Folks, that picture is from Time freakin’ magazine.

    Supposedly at his gym, although as Doghouse Riley noted, most gyms don’t have kleig lights and a back drop.

  21. 21
    dkelly says:

    “(David Limbaugh – there’s another fucking Limbaugh? Why the fuck wasn’t I told?)”

    Yup. There’s a whole city of them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Girardeau,_MO

  22. 22
    muddy says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: LOL! Tunch as a Cabbage Patch kid.

  23. 23
  24. 24
    RinaX says:

    Over on the GOS, they show that Biden won a NBC poll of undecided voters in Virginia 5 to 1. Someone in the comments also posted that Joe won an ABC poll, but I don’t have hard confirmation of that.

  25. 25

    @Yutsano:
    After seeing Joe’s passion and vigor? I have all due respect for Sarah – indeed, I view as a legend, one of the greats in the arts of debauchery and fornication.

    Biden would walk out of the bedroom naked and smoking a cigar, and shout ‘NEXT!’

  26. 26
    c u n d gulag says:

    I want to have Joe’s babies! And I’m a guy!

    Biden v. Ryan reminded me of Hawkeye v. Frank on M.A.S.H.

    Joe killed Paulie so badly in that debate, that I suspect Mitt is rounding up Mormons to baptize his dead running mate.

  27. 27
    Cris (without an H) says:

    “oleaginous” FTW

  28. 28
    👽 Martin says:

    I thought Biden did well. I think Ryan did decently. It wasn’t a landslide, but I didn’t think the first debate was a landslide for Romney either until everyone went into full panic and then made it so.

    This won’t move the polls much. Mainly it sets up a bit of hope for everyone that Obama will bring it next week.

    The thing that I wish Obama would bring up in this tax policy question is that Romney/Ryan are planning on eliminating capital gains taxes and taxes on dividends and carried interest. It doesn’t matter how fucking many deductions and loopholes you close, or which ones, 0% of any number is still $0. Everyone is getting bamboozled over this. They’re proposing $0 in taxes for anyone who earns money off of wealth, and leaving the entirety of the tax burden to those whose income is from wages. At that point, the only people that will be impacted by eliminating loopholes are people that work, because they’re the only ones left paying taxes.

    So Romney pays $0 taxes, Buffett pays $0 taxes, Dimon pays $0 taxes, Adelson pays $0 taxes, the Kochs pay $0 taxes. Who’s left to balance that out to make this revenue neutral? Us, that’s who.

  29. 29
    Steve says:

    Something I learned last week is that if your team is complaining about the moderator and how rude the other guy was, you lost the debate. I got to apply that lesson this week.

  30. 30
    Yutsano says:

    @Frankensteinbeck: There could be a threesome with her, Joe, and Gloria. It’s not like the two of them haven’t indulged there before. Personally, I love Joe, but I’d do his son. :)

  31. 31
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @muddy: That’s Shiro, Tunch’s cousin from Japan he is a very cool cat.

  32. 32
    General Stuck says:

    “U.S. consumer sentiment unexpectedly rose to its highest level in five years in October as consumers became more optimistic about the overall economy in a possible boost to President Obama’s reelection hopes next month.”

    Obvious Obama plot to plant happy thoughts in voters minds, since we are like all of us a dogs breath away from the soup lines/wingnut.

  33. 33
    gocart mozart says:

    I was wondering the other day “Whatever happened to Screech from ‘Saved By The Bell?'” Now I Know. Thanks Balloon Juice.

  34. 34
    amk says:

    Call me and I’m yours.

    Get back to the back of the line, lady.

  35. 35
    shortstop says:

    @Yutsano: I don’t blame you, but don’t let him speak. That high-pitched squeak is off-putting. When I’m not the one making it.

  36. 36
    Cris (without an H) says:

    @LGRooney: Yeah, I saw that too. I think Biden was getting away with a fudge there: he was saying that he voted against the trillion-dollar tax cut, but left the impression that he voted against the other things as well.

  37. 37
    Rick Taylor says:

    I think you need to fix that link to the debate transcript.

  38. 38
    GregB says:

    The party of Joe You Lie Wilson, Rush Limbaugh, Donald Trump, Steve King, Ted Nugent and Hank Williams Jr. are very upset about Joe Biden showing disrespect to Paul Ryan.

    Haw fucking haw.

  39. 39
    WarMunchkin says:

    @LGRooney: Yeah that was actually a sleight of hand there, he did vote/support Iraq/Afghanistan. He was probably talking about the tax cut specifically, but in the grouping of topics it comes off as voting against all those things.

  40. 40
    Fuck ALL the chickens! (né Studly Pantload, t.e.u.u.) says:

    I could tell last night that the howls of butthurt from the right were all I’d need for sustenance over the course of the next few days, and the darling rat bastids aren’t disappointing in the least. I roll, naked, in the pool of their tears.

  41. 41
    Unsympathetic says:

    I’m trolling conservative websites this morning by taking the wording they used to claim Romney crushed Obama, replacing “Biden” and “Ryan” in the key places, and reposting it.

    Good times.

  42. 42
    Elizabelle says:

    Blurb at top of the NYTimes’ website story on debate:

    Democrats saw the vice president’s appearance as energizing, but many Republicans saw an easy opening and called Joseph R. Biden Jr. “unhinged.”

    Unhinged. Many Republicans saw ….

    Your liberal media at work.

    NYTimes has changed its web headline from “In Biden-Ryan Quarrel, Sharp Contrasts”
    to “Show of Teeth by Biden Spurs a Debate on his Performance.”

    So they’re covering the rightwing scream now.

    God forbid they stick to the policy differences, which virtually shouted last night.

    Here’s the start of Michael Shear’s article, top of NYTimes site now:

    Thursday’s vice-presidential slugfest has quickly become a debate about Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s grin.
    __
    Mr. Biden’s smirking, emotional and aggressively sharp approach toward his rival, Representative Paul D. Ryan, prompted cheers from Democrats who had been desperate for the kind of in-your-face political rumble that President Obama did not deliver during his debate with Mitt Romney a week ago.
    __
    But Mr. Biden repeatedly mocked and interrupted Mr. Ryan in ways that led Republicans to use words like “unhinged” and “buffoon” and “disrespectful” in the hours after the fast-paced, 90-minute exchange ended.
    __
    The question by Friday morning: Did Mr. Biden go too far?
    __
    The answer was elusive
    , with early snap polls suggesting that most viewers were divided over who won the debate.

  43. 43
    Yutsano says:

    @Elizabelle: Both sides disagree, but we’re just reporting teh facts! I’m so glad I don’t subscribe to that rag. Or any rag for that matter.

  44. 44
    SatanicPanic says:

    then I think you’re—I—I—I—I—I got a bridge to sell you.

    That “I-I-I” was where he was telling himself not to say dumbass

  45. 45
    Rosalita says:

    @Yutsano:

    He looks and acts a lot more like Screech. With no offence intended to Dustin Diamond.

    There was a photoshop of him as Screech with the rest of the Save the Bell cast yesterday…damn, where did I see that? Hilarious!

  46. 46
    artem1s says:

    @yopd1:

    that ad is going to pretty much write itself, I think

  47. 47
    aimai says:

    I love the fact that the NY times article implicitly admits that the function of the debate is not to inform voters of the two parties’ different policy positions but simply to impress them in some way with the manliness or the weakness of the various candidates. In what sense can anyone “win” a debate if not based on the content of the ideas put forth? In the sense that the debates are nothing more than the equivalent of a verbal swimsuit competition for political and emotional couchpotatoes. A democratic election ought not to be treated as the equivalent of single fighter mortal combat.

    aimai

  48. 48
    Yutsano says:

    @Rosalita: I saw one that was similar but it had Screech in it. Which I found highly appropriate. :)

  49. 49
    Rosalita says:

    Here’s Ryan, aka Screech

  50. 50
    👽 Martin says:

    To clarify, the reason why I don’t think much will change is that much of the debate was a tornado of statistics and obscure place names. That works in debates when one side is doing it and the other isn’t, but most people can’t follow or fact check it in real time, so they’ll credit one for knowing their stuff and the other for not. When both sides are doing it, unless someone is actually policing it, it turns into a he-said, she-said draw with most voters.

    I’m not sure the best way to combat the GOP firehose of faulty assertions here, other than to pick out one or two key one that they’re weak on, and keep hammering away at that – explaining it without a ton of statistics – and using that to suggest that all the rest is also bullshit. And to go after the obvious contradictions – if you believe in personhood at conception, then life of the mother and rape and incest exceptions, and access to hormonal contraceptions make no sense because you’ve declared anything from that point forward as murder anyway. It’s bullshit. It’s always been bullshit and someone needs to point out that its bullshit.

  51. 51
    👽 Martin says:

    FYWP!

  52. 52
    KeithinOhio says:

    Newsflash BJuicers…..CNN just admitted that their post debate snap poll was heavily weighted with Republican respondents. 48-44 Ryan with only a sample of 382 respondents? Meanwhile CBS, ABC, and NBC all have Biden winning with their snap polls. Our ground game must pull through. The MSM is in the tank for the 1%ers. FOWARD!!

  53. 53
    Rosalita says:

    @Yutsano: you’re right, I didn’t notice him over on the right side… the Ryan image was so overwhelming

  54. 54
    Culture of Truth says:

    It really was pretty masterful. He was brief, to the point, thorough but concise, spoke in full paragraphs, and took the fight to Ryan very step of the way.

  55. 55
    quannlace says:

    I’m trolling conservative websites this morning by

    On Free Republic, someone posted the shocking revelation, that the moderator (Raddaz, forget her name) once visited Biden at his home! Horrors! Conspiracy! Cue Issa to convene a Congressional investigation!

  56. 56
    Steve says:

    @WarMunchkin: He wasn’t criticizing Ryan for the war, he was criticizing Ryan for putting it on the credit card, i.e. not paying for it. Many Democrats supported the war but also supported paying for it. I don’t recall how Biden voted on those measures but I wouldn’t be surprised.

  57. 57
    KeithinOhio says:

    @aimai: I have constantly stated that the MSM has turned the debates into a Hollywood sideshow. Reality TV at its best. Your post is spot on aimai.

  58. 58
    General Stuck says:

    @Elizabelle:

    I don’t pay any attention to those idiots, especially the ones supposedly on my side. The theater of pol operation was built over 30 plus years with near all republican parts. The media left and right know that is where to get their bread buttered, in the back rooms of DC, a prevailing republican DC. For whatever the personal pay off is in the currency that runs that circus, that is access by and large.

    It will take some time to fix that situation, and until then, I expect nothing of concern for the truth out of that world. The public will eventually make the changes at the ballot box, or they won’t. We just keep fighting one battle at a time that is within our control. Or our reps control. That is all there is. imho

  59. 59
    Elizabelle says:

    @General Stuck:

    Yup.

    And Michael D. Shear used to be the Washington Post’s White House correspondent.

    ‘Nuff said.

  60. 60
    LGRooney says:

    @quannlace: I don’t remember where I saw it but I read somewhere that the wingnuts complained about the lack of objectivity in the moderator because her ex-husband’s re-marriage was attended by Obama when he was a student. WTF?

  61. 61
    cckids says:

    @General Stuck:

    Obvious Obama plot to plant happy thoughts in voters minds, since we are like all of us a dogs breath away from the soup lines/wingnut.

    No, no, all of us moochers & takers are lying again (like we did about getting jobs), so as to make Obama look good. We aren’t really more optomistic, we’re just acting.

    Gotta keep with the wingnut memes.

  62. 62

    Looks like the Kenyan Usurper must have employed some Chicago-style Tactics to skew some numbers in his favor again:

    The Thomson Reuters/University of Michigan’s preliminary October reading on the overall index on consumer sentiment came in at 83.1, up from 78.3 the month before, and the highest since September 2007, the survey showed on Friday.

  63. 63
    SatanicPanic says:

    @aimai: People have this idea that politicians lie all the time. They’re hoping at these debates that one or both of the polls will be caught in an obvious lie and then all their lazy suspicions about politicians will be proven true. I highly doubt people are tuning in to learn about the issues.

    And Romney pretty much demolished even that reason for watching the debates with his shameless lying. One of my pet wishes is that they just stop with the stupid debates altogether.

  64. 64
    hueyplong says:

    So a NYT writer says viewers were divided? They’re also divided about climate change, whether the Earth revolves around the sun or vice versa, and whether granny starving is a capital idea.

  65. 65
    batgirl says:

    @Elizabelle:

    Thursday’s vice-presidential slugfest has quickly become a debate about Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s grin.

    I see Michael Shear is a stenographer the the Republican spin doctors. They are the only ones “debating” his grin.

  66. 66
    Suffern ACE says:

    @Elizabelle: Yep. And after all of that experience, the best he can do is count blinks and measure how wide smiles are. The smile – too wide? Did it cross the line from grin to smile? Too many teeth?

  67. 67
    Kane says:

    Martha: If the Romney/Ryan ticket is elected, should those who believe that abortion should remain legal be worried?

    Ryan is looking at Martha as she asks the question. When the question is completely asked, Ryan briefly pauses and then looks up to suddenly notice that the camera and the viewer is watching him. He quickly looks away as one often does when one is about to lie, and then there’s a silence. It’s an incredibly powerful television moment.

  68. 68
    amk says:

    @quannlace: colbear mocked that pox news racist pig, lou dobbs for saying on air that the kenyan mulsin attended her wedding way back in 91 and the conspiracy was hatched at that time.

  69. 69
    zizi2 says:

    I hope Libs will take a lesson in how to always attack the other side regardless of how your side performs. That’s the way wingnuts leverage their control of the public megaphone to aggressively push their alternate reality.

    They are blatantly telling voters not to believe their lying eyes from the vP debates. Truly frightening what this country has been turned into.

    That simply tells us that regardless of how Pres Obama would have performed last week, the corporate media and wingnut paymasters already had their narrative cued ready to go.

    Dems learn. learn!

  70. 70
    Ed Drone says:

    People are calling Ryan “Screech,” but I think Eddie Haskell is more accurate.

    And the MSM can kiss my ass if they take up the right-whingers’ gripes about Biden’s demeanor. Rmoney did as poorly in the deportment department (unintended alliteration/rhyme there) and they tongue-bathed him like he was the Second Coming of St. Ronnie. As my mother used to say, “What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.” Suck it up, wingnuts, suck it up.

    And MSM, grow a pair!

    Ed

  71. 71
    Elizabelle says:

    Tee hee.

    NY Times reader comment to Shear’s story:

    Allow me to translate. “Unhinged” = Republicanspeak for “He kicked our butts.”

  72. 72
    Bruce S says:

    Trying to figure out this line from the NYT’s (bad) coverage of Biden/Ryan:

    Sarah Palin, the former governor of Alaska who debated Mr. Biden four years ago as the Republican vice-presidential nominee, said on Fox News that he reminded her of “of watching a musk ox run across the tundra with somebody underfoot.”

    Is Palin criticizing Biden or throwing Ryan under the…uh…musk ox? Reads like she’s trying to sound like she’s doing the former, pro forma for FOX, while really doing the latter – i.e. make Ryan look like a wimp compared to her and remind her dwindling fan base of her awesomeness. That’s actually not a totally awful verdict on the debate – as in the “Biden wiped the floor with Ryan.”

    (Palin of course had the advantage in debating Joe that if he had treated her as she deserved, and as he did Ryan, i.e. laughed at a lot of what she had to say, the gender thing would have backfired for him.)

  73. 73

    @Liberty60: Me too! I always liked Joe, gaffes and all. Now I’m loving him.

  74. 74
    amk says:

    @zizi2: This. Turn the fucking guns on the fucking other side.

  75. 75
    cckids says:

    @Bruce S: I said it last night; Ryan was unable to defend his math or ideas, but Palin would have probably run off the stage crying if she’d been challenged like Ryan was. She is used to having special treatment because she’s a girrrrl.

    Which, for me, is reason #1 I despise her. Her example hurt women in politics & life in general in all kinds of ways. She’s a shallow, grifting fool.

  76. 76
    amk says:

    @Bruce S: tundra twit’s 15 minutes aren’t still up yet ?

  77. 77
    Napoleon says:

    @Bruce S:

    (Palin of course had the advantage in debating Joe that if he had treated her as she deserved, and as he did Ryan, i.e. laughed at a lot of what she had to say, the gender thing would have backfired for him.)

    Plus she was so clearly outmatched and by that point everyone knew that she was in over her head that him being tough on her would have had a bully beating up the weakling on the playground quality to it.

  78. 78
    Suffern ACE says:

    @zizi2: You will pry our supposedly independent mavericky thoughts and contrarian anti-group think cocktail posturing from our of our cool dead-from-a-prexisting-condition-that-got-worse-when-we-were-unemployed-and-lost-our-employee-insurance-plan hands.

  79. 79
    JGabriel says:

    __
    __
    quannlace:

    What a hoot. So many ‘serious’ pundits complaining about Biden laughing too much?

    Really. If the only complaint people have is that Joe Biden enjoyed himself too much while kicking Ryan’s butt in the debate, I can live with that.

    .

  80. 80
    taylormattd says:

    @YellowJournalism: Thank you, I was just going to say that. Step off my Slater, ok?

  81. 81
    amk says:

    @Suffern ACE: I actually lolled.

  82. 82
    Ash Can says:

    Every time I see that photo of Paulie I laugh. I still can’t believe he okayed that shit for publication.

  83. 83
    zzyzx says:

    Can I say just how much I hate how we decide elections? The press going on and on about body language to the exclusion of everything else is just incredibly frustrating. Sure Obama might lose the election leading to millions of people being without healthcare once again, but the ratings for a few weeks were really good so who cares?

  84. 84
    Hill Dweller says:

    The media’s desperate attempt to make this a draw, while not surprising, really is pathetic.

  85. 85
    Bruce S says:

    I thoroughly enjoyed Joe Biden last night, but I have to say having watched him for what seems like forever, this was easily predictable. He did what he does and he did it well. Also predictable that the wingnuts scream bloody murder because Joe obviously didn’t take their Most Serious Person any more seriously than he deserves.

    I’m kind of not getting the effusiveness over Biden, in that this was vintage Joe dealing in this case with a callow ideologue-cum-opportunist – not the overnight emergence of a super-hero. I will say for Ryan that he kept his composure and a veneer of good cheer as he was having his ass handed to him. That was his only strength – probably his only good choice under the circumstances – and it served him and his fan club well in the wake of their defense crumbling at every turn. It’s pretty much all they’ve got this morning – Ryan was the “nice guy” and Joe was a bully. I guess that’s what I’d want my wife to say about me if I got the crap beat out of me.

  86. 86

    @zizi2:

    They are blatantly telling voters not to believe their lying eyes from the vP debates.

    I was trying to get at this the other day.

    Basically Gaslighting the whole country, or trying to. “No, you didn’t see that.” “No, you didn’t hear that.” “I know you were there, but that’s not what happened, you’re wrong.”

    And it’s new. Sure, the right wing has always been about spin and flash and how a certain vague claim was not-not-not a lie, strictly. But now it’s a blatant wave of Obi Wan’s hand, or Harry Potter’s wand, trying to create Reality on the fly.

    Never mind Job Creators. They fancy themselves to be Reality Creators.

  87. 87
    KeithinOhio says:

    CNN: Our debate snap poll was biased towards Republicans cnn.com/POLITICS/polli…

  88. 88
    beltane says:

    The one wingnut I have on FB is usually silent about politics but today is on the fainting couch sniffling and whining about Joe Biden’s “incivility”. She is ashamed of the vice-president because he is such a mean and disrespectful man (unlike those bastions of civility, the teabaggers).

    The minute anyone gives these bullies a taste of their own medicine they suddenly transform themselves into delicate Victorian ladies in need of smelling salts and corset loosening. I’ve got to say, the tears of assholes bring joy to my heart. You did good, Joe, very good.

  89. 89
    slag says:

    I gotta agree with this guy who addresses the “most mind-bendingly awful moment” of the debate last night:

    That’s right: “Mitt Romney’s a car guy, now I’m going to tell you a story about kids paralyzed in a car crash.”

    Seriously. What the hell was that?

    I kept thinking the end was going involve Romney as Monty Hall giving the family a chance to win a new car. Instead, it was just another noblesse oblige story that celebrates the idea of rich dudes getting to directly pick and choose the “deserving” poors on which they lavish their rich dude generosity.

    ETA I wonder what Rmoney would say to that family if they had voted for Obama. “Too bad you survived because now you’re going to have a ton of medical bills to deal with?”

  90. 90
    zzyzx says:

    However, the one advantage of the way the media works, is that the, “Much More Energized President Wins Debate,” headlines are already written.

  91. 91
    KeithinOhio says:

    @Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God: Spot on Judas. The question is will the American public fall for Gaslighting? We will find out Nov. 6th.

  92. 92
    beltane says:

    @amk: Poor Sarah, the most recent photo I saw of her had her looking like a late-era Michael Jackson. Very sad. Don’t be surprised if we soon hear of a shoplifting/disorderly conduct arrest from her soon as she has clearly hit the skids.

  93. 93
    Hill Dweller says:

    @zzyzx:

    However, the one advantage of the way the media works, is that the, “Much More Energized President Wins Debate,” headlines are already written.

    I initially thought this would happen, but after seeing the media desperately try to paint Biden’s wiping the floor with Ryan as a draw, I’m not so sure anymore.

  94. 94
    slag says:

    @beltane: Biden was way gentler on Ryan than Ryan was on the truth last night.

  95. 95
    gwangung says:

    Plus she was so clearly outmatched and by that point everyone knew that she was in over her head that him being tough on her would have had a bully beating up the weakling on the playground quality to it.

    But that’s what happened last night, right?

  96. 96
    the Conster says:

    @Hill Dweller:

    Look what happened when the whole country was allowed to hear the convention speeches unfiltered and uninterrupted – the Dems got a huge bounce. The media was left holding their limp d!ck. They couldn’t control the narrative because the “who are you going to believe, us or your lying eyes” about the Democrats was just too obviously rigged. So now they’ve got a format they can insert themselves into, and they’re determined not to let people trust their own instincts again. Why on earth would we need them if they just affirmed the obvious?

  97. 97
    Bruce S says:

    @beltane:

    Biden won on substance and clarity – that he obviously was enjoying himself as he was doing it was just icing on the cake. Romney was super-hyped and bullying – the moderator, no less – during his debate, and it’s the only thing that got him through with the appearance of having “won.” Biden was nowhere near as hopped up and aggressive as a strategy – he was clearly responding in the moment to what he knew was bullshit. Romney gave a performance, while Biden showed up and was totally himself – which was actually pretty much what Obama did as well. It’s just that Obama’s “himself” isn’t a person who enjoys or takes easily to that particular form of engagement.

  98. 98
    gwangung says:

    The one wingnut I have on FB is usually silent about politics but today is on the fainting couch sniffling and whining about Joe Biden’s “incivility”. She is ashamed of the vice-president because he is such a mean and disrespectful man

    You will ALWAYS come off as mean when you completely dismantled a shallow, unprepared oaf pretending to be a serious leader. There’s no way to be nice to a AA-guy trying to play in the major leagues; An NFL All Pro defensive is just gonna CREAM the local high school QB.

    Folks just gotta live with that.

  99. 99
    Enhanced Mooching Techniques says:

    So how is that an excuse with CNN, isn’t poll weighing supposed to correct that? From what I’ve been told if they didn’t do weighing all polls would show the Republicans way a head all the time because Republicans are more likely to have land lines and answer the phones.

  100. 100

    @beltane:
    I saw that picture, and thought “Cancer, or Meth?”

    Not that I wish either, even on her.

  101. 101
    jayboat says:

    I couldn’t stand all the whining and complaints of incivility on fb. All I managed to do was start arguments with idiots, and we all know where that leads.

    Then, I got lucky.

    I walked away from the desk to the back of the house and in my backyard was a gigantic swarm of dragonflies. New hatchlings- a thousand of them, all identical, about 2 inches long, bright orange. I grabbed a chair and sat down right in the middle of em. They were darting and dipping a foot or so above the lawn, sparkling in and out of the shadows of the morning sun. They would come up to within a couple feet of me, quick check of the human and then skip back to the task at hand, which appeared to be breakfast… on the never ending supply of small flying insects in south Florida. 8-]

    Best fucking hour of my year.

  102. 102
    ericblair says:

    @hueyplong:

    So a NYT writer says viewers were divided? They’re also divided about climate change, whether the Earth revolves around the sun or vice versa, and whether granny starving is a capital idea.

    The amazing insight I get from the dead tree media is that Republicans and Democrats disagree on shit. The insight I get from the teevee news is what all those kids are twittering on their Facepages. I know they want to just turn into a pure ad and propaganda delivery system without screwing around with any actual information, but Fox has got that completely covered.

  103. 103
    zzyzx says:

    Well the one good thing is that last Thu/Fri/Sat will drop out of Gallup’s tracking the next few days so it might look like an Obama boom no matter what.

    I want to convince myself that we’re not so dumb as a country as to take a 90 minute show over everything else, but we probably are just that dumb.

  104. 104
    Suffern ACE says:

    @Hill Dweller: I agree. It will be “Arrogant President Still Doesn’t Get It”. We’ve been down this road in 2000. We’re it not for Mitt’s religion, we’d be rehashing the beer round of questioning as well. In 2008, the press didn’t turn on the Dem candidate. This time they most certainly have.

  105. 105
    weaselone says:

    @Bruce S:

    I agree with Palin.

    I would also have accepted: “watching a grizzly disembowel a salmon”, “watching a Canadian club a baby seal” or “watching Limbaugh demolish a salad bar”.

  106. 106
    G says:

    @Cargo:
    Standard Right Wing procedure. If you can’t argue the facts, then smear, denigrate, and shit all over the person presenting the argument.

  107. 107
    Gndy53 says:

    @JGabriel: I’m surprised he didn’t fall on the floor and roll around. I know I would have.

  108. 108
    amk says:

    @Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God:

    Not that I wish either, even on her.

    Why not ? I would and I am. She was the fountainhead that brought the under-the-rock-slimy ugly racism & hatred and mainstreamed it.

  109. 109
    Napoleon says:

    @gwangung:

    Not really because Ryan was not generally percieved as being completely out of place (plus there is still the gender issue). Now maybe he is (though I think he is way way smarter then Palin) but that is not matters with perceptions.

  110. 110
    zzyzx says:

    If you want to know when I’ll panic, btw, it’s if Gallup doesn’t look better on Monday. After last weekend’s numbers drop out, things better look better at least in the registered voter numbers or this very well could be over :/

  111. 111

    @amk:
    I prefer that she live out many decades in ignomy, humiliation, frustration and isolation.

    Cancer or meth let her off the hook too quickly. How’s that?

  112. 112
  113. 113
    KeithinOhio says:

    @zzyzx: What are you talking about zzyzx? Are you saying that the MSM will be triumphantly winning this race for R/R? It aint over till its over.

  114. 114
    Cris (without an H) says:

    @cckids: [Palin] is used to having special treatment because she’s a girrrrl.

    I like almost nothing about Quitty, but I don’t think this statement is at all correct.

  115. 115
    Shana says:

    I remember reading yesterday that Ryan was supposed to be referred to as “Mr. Ryan” not “Congressman Ryan” but both Biden and Raditz referred to him pretty consistently as “Congressman.” Was the story wrong or did they both decide it was a stupid request? Anyone have any insight?

  116. 116
    Bubblegum Tate says:

    @Unsympathetic:

    I’m trolling conservative websites this morning by taking the wording they used to claim Romney crushed Obama, replacing “Biden” and “Ryan” in the key places, and reposting it.

    Ha! I’ve been doing much the same thing. They are none too happy about it. They get even angrier when they realize that I’m just using their own words.

  117. 117
  118. 118
    Lurking Canadian says:

    The pundits cannot accept that Biden laughing at Ryan was a reasonable response to him, because that would mean accepting that Krugman’s been right about Ryan for two years now, and Krugman is not allowed to be right about anything, and especially not anything about which Krugman is right.

  119. 119
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @JGabriel:

    Really. If the only complaint people have is that Joe Biden enjoyed himself too much while kicking Ryan’s butt in the debate, I can live with that.

    This. I was quite enjoying all those “happy warrior” moments last night.

  120. 120
    shortstop says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: When you think about it, there are few situations in which Joe Biden doesn’t seem to be enjoying himself, or at least embracing the moment for its unique value. No reason why cleaning the clock of some punkass jerk shouldn’t be one of them.

  121. 121
    Mnemosyne says:

    BTW, even in the Onion’s alternative universe, Joe Biden won the debate.

  122. 122
    danielx says:

    @Poopyman:

    Thought it was a dipshit ex-frat boy myself, but I understand your confusion.

    And yes, Joe Biden generally does seem to be enjoying himself.

  123. 123
    zzyzx says:

    @KeithinOhio:

    I’m saying if Obama isn’t winning in any polls come Monday, things are looking bleak.

  124. 124
    Joey Giraud says:

    My conservative brother watched with me. He was strangely silent.

    Facts and words aside, Biden did come across as the grownup in the room.

  125. 125
    g says:

    @GregB:

    The party of Joe You Lie Wilson, Rush Limbaugh, Donald Trump, Steve King, Ted Nugent and Hank Williams Jr. are very upset about Joe Biden showing disrespect to Paul Ryan.

    Yes, the guy whose running mate called the president a lying child wasn’t shown the proper respect he’s entitled to.

  126. 126

    @zzyzx:

    I’m saying if Obama isn’t winning in any polls come Monday, things are looking bleak.

    Give it until the Monday after. And focus on Ohio.

    Romney has no realistic path to victory without Ohio, and for whatever reason(s), Obama’s firewall in Ohio has held strong (so far).

  127. 127
    Paula says:

    So, I don’t quite understand this. More people are actually earning money again, even if they’re not at full-time jobs. Consumer confidence is up. Obama, for the first time in a very long time, is above 50% approval. But he’s still in danger of losing this thing?

  128. 128
    opie_jeanne says:

    @Paula: It’s all about belief vs. facts. There are people who believe that their taxes have gone up under Obama even though they have in fact gone down.

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