Tonight’s Festivities

Tonight we’ll start the VP debate liveblog around 8:30, in a post with comments turned off, and if the site stops working, I’ll turn all comments off. The test liveblog was viewed by a lot of people, but we learned that if we let a bunch of commenters into the liveblog, the stream becomes unreadable. So we’re going to let people comment, but only approve some, not just because we’re fascists, but also because we want to have something going on during the debates versus what we had last time, which at least for me was more-or-less nothing. If that doesn’t work tonight, we’ll try plan C for the next Presidential debates. Any front pager who wants to participate, send me an email and I’ll get you set up. We might also have a special guest, a debate expert, arranged by DougJ. Tune in and find out.

I guess Bernard has left me an opening here, because he’s apparently not positive that tonight’s debate will be a total disaster. The day is long, so perhaps he will tell us later why a Biden failure is an almost certainly. Meanwhile, here are a couple of my pollyanna observations about the VP debates. First, these things are set up via secret negotiations between the campaigns, who are risk-averse, so it’s tough for one candidate to score a total win. Expectations of a slam-dunk by either candidate are stupid. Romney did not score a slam-dunk last week, but the expectation that Obama would wipe the floor with him set up a liberal backlash. I don’t expect Biden to wipe the floor with a well-prepared, slippery weasel like Paul Ryan. Adjust your expectations accordingly. Second, the VP debate is always more heated, and also less important. Lloyd Bentsen did not become Vice President, and Dan Quayle is dumber than Paul Ryan.

Also, too: this week’s jobs report showed the best numbers since February, 2008. That’s a hell of a lot more important than a debate.






113 replies
  1. 1
    eric says:

    I dont know what will happen, but i do not think that there is a more misunderestimated figure in politics than biden. the guy knows how to bring it.

  2. 2
    Comrade Jake says:

    I posted this in Bernard’s thread as well, but I do think the comedy is something BJ readers will appreciate. Enjoy the epic fail that is the GOP’s Benghazi hearings. You have to hand it to the asshats, exposing state secrets because they’re all too eager to embarrass the President.

  3. 3
    Hill Dweller says:

    As the economy looks to be getting slightly better, it’s miraculously disappeared from the beltway narrative. Their only concern now seems to be covering for Willard’s lying.

  4. 4
    Comrade Jake says:

    It’s going to be an interesting debate, no matter what. Biden really did handle Palin extremely well four years ago, but I felt like he was probably instructed to go easy on her and held back a little. I don’t think he’ll hold back much tonight.

    Also, I don’t know about the rest of you, but I plan on drinking every time I hear “Ladies and gentlemen…”

  5. 5
    Cassidy says:

    Dan Quayle is dumber than Paul Ryan.

    Something you guys say about assuming facts not present, or something. I’m not that witty.

    I have a middle school choir concert to go to tonight. Of course, I’ve messed with my daughter and told her I’m only going to watch someone fall off the risers, but I’m looking forward to it.

  6. 6
    Hill Dweller says:

    Biden has to hammer Ryan’s(and by extension Romney) extreme economic positions. Judging from some of the polling, Willard had some success convincing people he was a moderate in the first debate. If Biden has one goal, it has to be nipping Ryan’s/Romney’s desperate transformation in the bud tonight.

  7. 7
    Shrillhouse says:

    Biden had to take it easy on Mooseface back in ’08, or else he would have been faulted for being to hard on her (like that awful meanie Katie Couric and her “gotcha” questions).

    He won’t have to worry about that this time ’round.

  8. 8
    amk says:

    You have a plan C too ? Wow, you should work for mittbot.

  9. 9
    Bernard Finel says:

    Actually, my expectation for tonight is exactly the same as yours, FWIW.

    The only way a veep debate matters is if people have real doubts about one of the candidates, and whether he/she might be able to step up if the president died. And even then, when does it matter? People thought Quayle was a lightweight. Debate with Bentsen exposed him as such. Bush still won.

    There is some upside, here, though in the sense that everyone “knows” Paul Ryan is a smart, well-prepared wonk. He isn’t, of course. He’s a fraud. And there is a small chance he implodes, but I think that’s unlikely, and as a result, I think tonight will be a snoozer.

    For all the talk of Biden’s “gaffes,” the guy is seasoned and extremely affable.

    Anyway, I’m not worried about tonight, but thanks for your concern.

  10. 10
    Ann Rynd says:

    Job reports? Good job report? Who cares about job reports when we’re all on tenderhooks about whether or not Biden will mention Big Bird?
    Get real, this debate will be all about style, gaffes and affect.

  11. 11
    Corner Stone says:

    I guess Bernard has left me an opening here, because he’s apparently not positive that tonight’s debate will be a total disaster. The day is long, so perhaps he will tell us later why a Biden failure is an almost certainly.

    Raawwrrrr!

  12. 12
    eric says:

    @Bernard Finel: i think it might matter if Biden can get Ryan to make categorical right wing statements that Ryan truly believes, but which Mitt wants to run away from. then that is the set up for the townhall … “mitt do you agree with your republican running mate that …”

  13. 13
    mistermix says:

    @Bernard Finel: Ha, good to hear. I agree that catching Ryan out would be a good bonus, but not likely. He’s not the salesman Romney is, but I think he can probably stick to his Randian BS for a 90 minutes.

  14. 14
    japa21 says:

    The new unemployment claims report is actually quite significant. In and of itself, it doesn’t mean much to people. However, IIRC, 350,000 is kind of the critical number. Claims over that amount indicate slow job growth. Claims below that number indicate good job growth. If this stays pretty much the same for the next couple weeks, it bodes quite well for the October jobs report which comes out the Friday before the election.

    Sometimes it is the last thing people hear that influences them when they go to cast their votes. I still think the bin Laden tape just before the 2004 election sealed Kerry’s fate. If the last thing to happen just before the election is job growth of 175,000-200,000 and another drop in the UE rate, that will, IMHO, seal it for Obama.

  15. 15
    Cacti says:

    I hope Joe will give us another quip as memorable as “a noun, a verb, and 9/11”.

  16. 16
    Hill Dweller says:

    @japa21: Benen always says under 400,000 claims shows an improving job market. Under 370,000 claims indicates good job growth. We’ve been under 370,000 claims for 9 of the last 14 weeks.

  17. 17
    Steve says:

    I think Biden will do well, but there’s not much upside to this debate. Even if Biden is fantastic, it’s not suddenly going to restore whatever confidence was lost from the last debate – only the President can do that.

    In contrast, the downside scenario would actually be pretty devastating for our team because it would reinforce the impressions from the last debate, but I really don’t expect that to happen.

  18. 18
    Cacti says:

    @mistermix:

    Ha, good to hear. I agree that catching Ryan out would be a good bonus, but not likely. He’s not the salesman Romney is, but I think he can probably stick to his Randian BS for a 90 minutes.

    I think team Mittens is holding their breath about Ryan sticking to the script.

    In theory, he should be able to. In practice, he’s never had a formal debate in his 14 year Congressional career and Biden is an old hand at debating.

  19. 19
    eric says:

    @Hill Dweller: you libtards dont get it…these numbers are cooked to favor obama…his rich hollywood sugar daddies are hiring people in the short term to make it look like the economy is improving. once the election is over, those jobs will disappear and those people will go make to mooching off of us all on welfare.

  20. 20
    Paul says:

    @Comrade Jake:

    You have to hand it to the asshats, exposing state secrets because they’re all too eager to embarrass the President.

    They hate the President of the United States more than they love their own country.

    Dick Cheney set the precedent when he helped out a CIA agent.

    They are just scum…

  21. 21
    JPL says:

    @eric: Not bad. You are no Jack Welch though.

  22. 22
    GregB says:

    Time Magazine has become Ryan Fap central.

    Someone needs to juxtapose these pathetic fanboy pics with Sarah Palin and Justin Bieber.

    http://lightbox.time.com/2012/.....l-moreon#1

  23. 23
    The Moar You Know says:

    I think team Mittens is holding their breath about Ryan sticking to the script.

    They should, as he won’t. The “smartest guys in the room” types – which Ryan certainly is – can’t help themselves. Best case scenario is Ryan’s going to come off like the arrogant nerd who got the crap kicked out of him every day in high school.

    Worst is that he’ll prattle on about how we MUST end Social Security and Medicare.

  24. 24
    mistermix says:

    @Cacti: But he’ll be doing something Biden and (esp) Obama can’t: prepping hard for a few days. He’ll make it, he’s not an idiot.

    He does have a bit of temper though. I’m interested to see if Biden will bait him.

  25. 25
    gbear says:

    I wonder if the moderator at the debates will mention that today is National Coming Out day and ask Paul Ryan for comment?

  26. 26
    Mark S. says:

    @mistermix:

    He’s not the salesman Romney is, but I think he can probably stick to his Randian BS for a 90 minutes.

    There will be plenty of BS, but it won’t be of the Randian variety. The Etch-a-Sketch has found the winning formula: “compassionate” conservatism. Lots of talk about how mean old Obama will cut Medicare and how much Ryan loves SS. I fully expect a 180 on Big Bird.

  27. 27
    Paul says:

    @JPL:

    His heart wasn’t really in it. He neglected to compare the United States to China/Soviet Union.

  28. 28
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @GregB: They should have taken his photo after he had come back from the restroom.

  29. 29
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    @Comrade Jake:
    @Hill Dweller:
    @Shrillhouse:
    Once again, expectations. Biden doesn’t have to prove anything; he’s the VP, not Ryan. It’s Ryan’s job to try to outdo Biden, with Biden going “Uhm, no” a lot.

  30. 30
    dedc79 says:

    The republicans have spent the last four years trying to portray biden as some stumbling, dumb fogey. He is none of those things (well, I guess he is kind of old) so I expect a lot of people are going to be surprised by how well he does tonight.

  31. 31
    eric says:

    @Paul: speaking of the commies you libtards love so much…look for gas prices to take a steep decline leading up to the election when Obambi’s comrade in arms, chvez, floods the us market with cheap gas to help his buddy get relected…then you will start hearing about obama and the dems wanting to repeal the 22nd amendment so that obambi and chavez can keep their commie love affair going

  32. 32
    Kay says:

    I’m going to watch at the field office. Biden is well-liked here.

    Although we watched the 2008 VP debate together at the field office and most of the men thought Palin won over Biden which is, of course, completely ridiculous :)

  33. 33
    dedc79 says:

    @eric: eric is this parody or real? I’d like to know before I bother responding

  34. 34
    Steve says:

    @eric: /applause

  35. 35
    Sly says:

    @eric:

    blargle blargle blargle blargle blargle blargle blargle blargle blargle blargle blargle blargle blargle blargle blargle blargle blargle blargle repeal the 22nd amendment blargle blargle blargle blargle blargle blargle blargle

    Hey, good idea.

  36. 36
    Cassidy says:

    1. OT: I’m gonna do some slight spamming over the next few months and I apologize in advance. My Firefighter class has to do a service project as part of our course. It’s not in the curriculum, but our Chief thinks it’s important to remind everyone we’re supposed to be role models and public servants; I agree with the sentiment. So, my class has chosen this one. I personally don’t have any attachment to lung cancer other than my continual fight to quit smoking, but this is what my class voted on. We’re doing the “Fight for Air” climb in February 2013 and between now and then we’re trying to raise $100 or more per person. If you have some spare change that you haven’t allotted for political races, would you consider it? Thank you.

    Your donation buys you a small part of misery on my part. We’ll be climbing 42 floors/ flights of stairs in full bunker gear and air pack.

  37. 37
    Soonergrunt says:

    @Cassidy: did you manage to navigate that minefield you were in earlier in the week?

  38. 38
    quannlace says:

    In practice, he’s never had a formal debate in his 14 year Congressional career and Biden is an old hand at debating.

    Didn’t Ryan refuse to debate his Democratic challenger in Wisconsin?

  39. 39
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @Soonergrunt: How are you this morning? Feeling any better? I hope Sooner doggie is taking good care of you.

  40. 40
    Soonergrunt says:

    @eric: I smell projection, mixed in with the faint scent of cheeto dust, basement mildew, and subtle hints of cat urine.

  41. 41
    Paul says:

    @eric:

    You are funny! I needed a laugh and I got it.

  42. 42
    Cacti says:

    @Soonergrunt:

    I smell projection, mixed in with the faint scent of cheeto dust, basement mildew, and subtle hints of cat urine.

    Nah. This one sounds like 14-year old on fall break.

  43. 43
    Cassidy says:

    @Soonergrunt: Kinda. They’re still in a Cold War that I expect to last until 12 becomes 18, but we got it figured out. I was able to pitch goth-punk Harley Quinn and the kid is cool with it. No we gotta find a used prom dress to rip up.

  44. 44
    Patricia Kayden says:

    Nice to see that the job reports and unemployment rate are going in the right direction. Funny that despite all the obstruction from the Repubs, President Obama was still able to get the economy going.

  45. 45
    Corner Stone says:

    @mistermix:

    He does have a bit of temper though. I’m interested to see if Biden will bait him.

    Biden is a master at that.

  46. 46
    lamh35 says:

    @mistermix: Biden has been off the campaign trail for since this weekend actually, I believe. I bet right after the 1st debate, they changed Biden schedule to include more debate time. Plus I believe I’ve read that Axelrod is taking over debate prep for Biden.

    So Biden has actually had more than a few days to prep. People have been so focused on Obama they didn’t notice that Biden has been used scarely since the debates. Biden’s been prepping plenty.

  47. 47
    Cacti says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Nice to see that the job reports and unemployment rate are going in the right direction. Funny that despite all the obstruction from the Repubs, President Obama was still able to get the economy going.

    Hence the collective howls of despair/outrage from the right.

    They couldn’t come out and say “We’ve done everything in our power to sink the economy!” But you know it’s what they were thinking.

  48. 48
    Corner Stone says:

    Every time I see Senator Blanche Lincoln on TV and then they show her title and it has a D before her name I am momentarily confused because I believe they made a mistake.

  49. 49
    Davis X. Machina says:

    John Sides, today at The Monkey Cage

    Even though he [Romney, ed.] is perceived as more conservative than the average voter—and increasingly so—he is still closer to the average voter than is Obama.

    For people still wondering why Obama’s not up 60%-40%

  50. 50
    quannlace says:

    Nice to see that the job reports and unemployment rate are going in the right direction.

    But what does Jack Welch have to say?

  51. 51
    Corner Stone says:

    @eric: You’re getting there. Last time you didn’t go quite far enough. I think this effort maybe just call him Obama and not Obambi but leave the rest in. Chavez was a righteous inclusion but the 22nd Amendment may have also been too ripe.
    It’s tough but I think you’re getting better.

  52. 52
    Soonergrunt says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: Well, after I blew a blood vessel in my nose coughing at work, and thereby creeped everyone out at work, I spiked a fever last night to 102.2. So I’m home again today.

  53. 53
    Davis X. Machina says:

    @Hill Dweller: My theory — electing a black President was a counsel born of desperation, when the country was plummeting down an elevator shaft, we’d try anything.

    Now, though, extreme measures like that are less necessary, and we can begin to return to normal white.

  54. 54
    shortstop says:

    @Cacti: Please don’t take anything that comes out of Mitt’s mouth as truth. Ryan has had eight formal debates already during his congressional career.

  55. 55
    Eric says:

    @Corner Stone: Whereas can one get valuable constructive criticism on trolling. :)

  56. 56
    shortstop says:

    @Corner Stone: If they’re showing her as a sitting senator, they are.

  57. 57
    Violet says:

    @eric:

    I dont know what will happen, but i do not think that there is a more misunderestimated figure in politics than biden. the guy knows how to bring it.

    Yep. I think the SNL parodies of him as a gaffe-prone fool and petulant teenager are contributing to that underestimation. I hope he surprises everyone tonight and Ryan is shown to be the petulant teenager.

  58. 58
    Soonergrunt says:

    @Cassidy: well, I’m only a year ahead of you on that one, so I got no advice for ya, other than good luck.

  59. 59
    WarMunchkin says:

    Submitting this without comment. Aw heck, don’t even click on it, just the headline is enough:

    Paul Ryan completes P90X-style debate training ahead of Biden showdown

  60. 60
    Kay says:

    I’ve never seen the attack dog Joe Biden, and I’ve been to a number of events where he spoke. I don’t have any idea what he’ll do, but I just haven’t heard him lay into anyone.
    I hope he’ll defend the stimulus. Ryan lies about it constantly, and Biden had a big role in getting it out. I hope he’ll defend it as one does their own work, personally.

  61. 61
    shortstop says:

    @Kay: I haven’t seen the attack dog Biden either. Enthusiastic, motivating, engaging, passionate, yes. But he doesn’t pummel people. I’m not saying he should, but I hate to see that be everyone’s expectation for tonight.

  62. 62
    zzyzx says:

    @Paul:

    What’s wrong with helping out a CIA Agent. They could use help and…

    …OOOOOOOH!

  63. 63

    @Davis X. Machina: Proof that if you howl long enough that Obama is the leftiest liberal who ever liberaled, people will perceive that he’s far to their left even when a majority of Americans actually agree with his major policy positions.

  64. 64
    Soonergrunt says:

    For whatever it’s worth, the audio of the the oral arguments at the Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces in the matter of Center for Constitutional Rights, et al v. United States and Colonel Lind are available here.
    There were several issues discussed, all of which revolved around CCR’s contention that the first amendment to the US Constitution is being violated by the military’s more restrictive policies customs and statutory limitations.

    I’ve never seen or heard of appeals court hearings before except on fiction shows like Law & Order so I’m not remotely an expert, but the Judges seemed like they were pretty hard on both Counsel.

  65. 65
    Violet says:

    @Cassidy: Kudos for this. I have a friend who is a wildfire firefighter. I know how heavy those packs and gear are.

  66. 66
    dmsilev says:

    @WarMunchkin: I have a sneaking suspicion that this story is a more accurate rendition of Ryan’s prep.

  67. 67
    Violet says:

    @Soonergrunt: Sending healing thoughts. Rest up. Take care of yourself. Sorry you’re having such a challenging time right now.

  68. 68
    jwb says:

    Let’s just try to remember that the role of liberal pundits and bloggers during but especially after the debate is to craft the best argument you can in favor of our guy and against the other guy. That doesn’t mean lying, and it doesn’t mean you can’t acknowledge shortcomings, but it means you are always taking aim at the other guy and that needs to be your focus.

  69. 69
    Higgs Boson's Mate says:

    Hold your horses; Romney and Ryan are now moderates (Because they said so). Ryan will try to come across as a doe-eyed, moderate genius whose economic plan is simply misunderstood. The vacant-eyed granny starver will not be appearing tonight.

  70. 70
    Mnemosyne says:

    Can people who decide to tweet be so kind as to use the #balloonjuice hashtag? I’ll be at someone else’s house with my iPhone so I’m not going to be able to see the liveblog, but I’d love to follow along on Twitter.

  71. 71
    Higgs Boson says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    Ryan will likely try to frame his Randian positions as promoting an “ownership society” in which even layabouts from the 47% have a share in their fates.

    I think this is probably what he would like to see:

    http://www.metafilter.com/1206.....ent-rights

  72. 72
    eemom says:

    Tonight we’ll start the VP debate liveblog around 8:30, in a post with comments turned off, and if the site stops working, I’ll turn all comments off.

    I have been commissioned by someone who shall remain nameless to continue my passive-aggressive work pointing out how much it sucks that Cole won’t get more bandwidth.

    I don’t actually care, because I had more fun last debate on FB
    — but I might point out that, except in the rare case of an extraordinarily talented blogger like Rude Pundit, live blogging is kind of pointless without comments. With all due respect, none of y’all — except maybe Mrs. Sarah — are in that category.

  73. 73
    Kay says:

    @shortstop:

    We were all shocked when he went into voting rights in Ohio in 2010. Very aggressive!

    I (fairly) recently went to a UAW event in Toledo where he spoke and it was 100% positive. It was him and Marcy Kaptur just loving them some American automobiles. A love-fest.

    Anyway, I’m not worried about him. If he has a “gaffe” political media will go fucking nuts, but no one here cares, at all, about his (alleged) gaffes. They see it as part of his personality.

  74. 74

    @The Moar You Know:

    Worst is that he’ll prattle on about how we MUST end Social Security and Medicare.

    That would actually be a GOOD thing for him to say, wouldn’t it?

    I’m more worried he’ll pull a Romboot and suddenly be Medicare and SS’s staunchest defender. And MSM will of course conveniently forget everything else he’s said in over a decade in the House.

  75. 75
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Kay:

    IMO, Biden is less an attack dog than the guy who gives you a jolly smile and a slap on the back and then cuts you off at the knees. “A noun, a verb, and 9/11.”

  76. 76
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    I don’t think it will do any good, but just for fun, we’re gonna make fun of this preening, forty year old wanna-bro, aren’t we?

  77. 77
    JayJohnstone says:

    I’m in a Red State and been just starting to phone bank for Obama in the battle ground states. First 25 calls and haven’t gotten the right voter on the phone yet. Is this uncommon?

    Also, I’ve been trying to figure out the right message to leave on anwsering machines. I think something very short about the importance of voting and perhaps a bit of early voting info. Any thoughts?

  78. 78
    Kay says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    I think he’ll do fine. He’s generous on a stage, though. He often promotes down-ticket candidates when he’s here ahead of himself. It’s nice, actually. He loves us all very, very much.

  79. 79
    👽 Martin says:

    This liveblog is shitty. It crashes my 17 year old PC. WordPress won’t post comments while its running. There are no Tunch pictures in the liveblog. ABL won’t approve my comment because she thinks its racist. Tom is too wordy in the liveblog, and he left out an Oxford comma – what a dick! Why is Betty talking about chickens during this debate? Didn’t Dougj already use that song reference? Getting lazy. No, mistermix, Joe Biden didn’t lose the debate because he spoke favorably about Apple. And how could we go through this whole thing without learning who Bobo thought won? Why the fuck do we bother coming here?

    Just thought I’d get all that out before the server melted down later tonight. Those who fail to plan, plan to fail.

  80. 80
    Soonergrunt says:

    @👽 Martin: I must be doing pretty well tonight, then

  81. 81

    @quannlace:

    But what does Jack Welch have to say?

    Jack Welch wants unemployment to be at 10% every year.

  82. 82
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God: anything else leads to a lazy, demanding discontented rabble instead of a thrifty, grateful working class.

  83. 83
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Kay:

    I just realized that all of that white guy alpha-male stuff that I’ve been complaining about all week is some of the stuff Biden can do really well when he wants to. Not necessarily the aggressive Sham-WOW! salesman stuff that Romney was doing, but Biden is very good at finding an opponent’s weak spot and making a sly joke about it that the opponent has trouble responding to without looking like a humorless jerk.

    I just want my crazy Uncle Joe to be himself tonight. I really think that’s all we need.

  84. 84
    hep kitty says:

    @Shrillhouse:

    He won’t have to worry about that this time ‘round.

    Most decidedly. I have been thinking the same thing. The restraints are off! And how many people, in all honesty, wouldn’t enjoy watching Joe drop-kick Pretty Boy Ryan across the stage, pick his sorry lil arse up, and do it all over again and again.

  85. 85
    khead says:

    Not sure if it has been posted anywhere else here at BJ, but check out this letter from David Siegel, owner of Westgate Resorts.

  86. 86
    👽 Martin says:

    @Soonergrunt: You’ve had a challenging enough couple of weeks. I don’t even want to pile on in jest. Get better man, and get all those loose ends wound up.

  87. 87
    jwb says:

    @khead: Same old going Galt shit.

  88. 88
    Kay says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    I don’t know.
    I think his strength is that people feel they know him and he’s good at heartfelt, positive recitations that are comforting. “I believe…” Like that. I generally see him as a positive figure. I really cannot recall much negativity from him, ever. I’m not knocking it. I think it absolutely works for him. I don’t see him as a score-settler.

  89. 89
    Hill Dweller says:

    @Mnemosyne: Some of my friends/acquaintances have talked about the alpha-male stuff in the last week, but I’ve tried to remind them that Willard’s tough guy act was an attempt to hide the fact he was running away from his past positions. Ultimately, Willard is a coward who tries to mask it with bravado.

  90. 90
    khead says:

    @jwb:

    I just wish they would.

    Also, I now see Digby and TP already teed off on the guy yesterday. I fail at the internets.

  91. 91
    Ash Can says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Biden is a master at that.

    I c wut u did ther

  92. 92
    shortstop says:

    @Kay: It’s absolutely his strength, and that’s why the right attacks him for allegedly being a dumb buffoon. He totally connects with people, and wingers have to attack that connection by telling people he’s not worthy of their liking or affection.

  93. 93
    nellcote says:

    Post debate, keep in mind that the msm has a huge amount of ink and bandwidth invested in Ryan’s economic “genius” and it will be near impossible for them to get past that.

  94. 94
    jayboat says:

    @👽 Martin:
    and a bag of chips…

  95. 95
    Ash Can says:

    @JayJohnstone:

    First 25 calls and haven’t gotten the right voter on the phone yet. Is this uncommon?

    Not at all. And if you mean that all you’ve been getting is nonsupportive responses, that’s entirely common unless your list is marked something like “hot leads,” which is a pre-pared-down list of people who have already expressed support and interest in helping with the campaign.

    And your message ideas sound fine. If you can leave a call-back number (the local campaign office, your OfA coordinator’s, etc.), do that too. Your coordinator should have some ideas too.

  96. 96
    lamh35 says:

    Gawd I hate to link to Dave Weigel (I think he’s a douche), but this article on Biden is a good one. Seriously, ANY VPDEBATE WORRYWART, STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND READ THIS

    Can Joe Biden Save Barack Obama? People are underestimating the veep. They shouldn’t

    Today’s vice presidential debate makes us glad of one thing. The phony, irritating, made-for-Twitter era pre-fight “expectation-setting” is over. Republicans won’t even pretend that Joe Biden’s synapses still crackle. On Wednesday, after a modest amount of Internet buzz over a Ryan interview that ended poorly, the Romney campaign compared Ryan’s local TV schedule with Biden’s failure to do any national TV hits since he endorsed gay marriage back in May. The Weekly Standard gave anonymity to a “Republican source,” who gloated that “Joe Biden gets used by the Obama Campaign like Bernie from ‘Weekend at Bernie’s.’
    If Romney-Ryan tried to praise the veep, who would believe them? The three funniest syllables in any GOP stump speech are “Joe Biden.” The titters start at the mention of his name; they continue as some Republican quotes his latest “gaffe.” Back in the summer, American Crossroads blew some of its bottomless cash reserves on a Web video compilation of Biden missteps, thanking Obama for keeping Biden on the ticket. (The idea that Biden wouldn’t be on the ticket was a classic, baseless August political story.)
    According to Pew, only 34 percent of people expect Biden to beat Paul Ryan tonight, even though they barely know who Ryan is. Only 39 percent of these voters actually like the president. I’m not even sure that the “Bernie” joke is wrong. When I last asked the Obama campaign for Biden access, I was told that the veep’s plane was small and filled—literally, man—with traveling press.
    So Biden enters the ring underrated, and Ryan enters it as a mystery. That’s obviously good for Biden. Ryan has outmatched mostly hapless Democrats in the eight debates he has competed in for his thoroughly safe House seat. Biden has lost two presidential primaries—one gracefully, one with maximum pain and humiliation—and coasted through some debates for his U.S. Senate seat. After spending some time with the Biden tapes, I’m convinced he’s being undervalued. He has a skill that now evades Barack Obama. He comes off like he actually cares about politics and wants to keep his job. And he’s gotten much better with time…

  97. 97
    hep kitty says:

    @Violet: The gaffe thing. It’s laughable considering what Ryan’s been doing. As in cutting off reporters b/c he can’t/won’t answer those trivial questions about those pesky budget numbers and tax cuts/loopholes.

    Well, it would be funny if it weren’t so tragic and frightening for the country.

  98. 98
    Lurking Canadian says:

    @khead: I’m not telling you which way to vote. I’m just saying, it’s a nice job you’ve got there. Be a damned shame if anything, you know, happened to it.

  99. 99
    Another Halocene Human says:

    @Sly: No shit. I always thought that two-term thing was a good idea until Obama came along. GODDAMMIT!

  100. 100
    Ash Can says:

    As for tonight’s debate, like I said earlier, Ryan has shown himself to be a pathological liar, and I’m betting that he won’t be able to help himself tonight. Even if Joe is his usual affable self, I can’t help but wonder if Ryan’s whoppers will get under his skin, especially in light of Romney making hay on the basis of dishonesty in the first debate.

  101. 101
    Kay says:

    @shortstop:

    I like him much more because endlessly savvy political media dismiss him (“HAH HAH HAH” the fake-laugh) and Karl Rove, Political Professional, thinks he’s an idiot.

    As far as I’m concerned, that’s an endorsement. I think the joy and generosity he sometimes puts out is genuine.

  102. 102
    shortstop says:

    @Kay: Very genuine and fairly irresistible.

  103. 103
    Another Halocene Human says:

    @Cassidy: I was able to pitch goth-punk Harley Quinn and the kid is cool with it.

    Ooo, that is f’n awesome. I wish my parents had been that cool.

    When I was old enough I did do some of my own costumes. I did Lorenzo the Magnificent, which went really unappreciated by my neighbors. Then, later, I did Starfleet Bajoran (totally home-made costume) which was also pretty much lost on my neighbors but it involved that face-putty stuff, so that was fun.

  104. 104
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @Soonergrunt: Take care of yourself. Make your self a pot of tea and curl up with a book.
    Or write a post making fun of Andrew Sullivan, whatever works!

  105. 105
    shortstop says:

    @Another Halocene Human:

    I did Lorenzo the Magnificent, which went really unappreciated by my neighbors.

    I’d have loved to see that.

  106. 106
    Another Halocene Human says:

    @JayJohnstone:

    I’m in a Red State and been just starting to phone bank for Obama in the battle ground states. First 25 calls and haven’t gotten the right voter on the phone yet. Is this uncommon?

    Nope, not at all. I was doing persuasion calls yesterday and the list wasn’t very long and even on that list there weren’t many to be persuaded.

    I think door to door will be the most important part. They’re pushing canvassing now that the 10/9 deadline has passed.

    I think the campaign needs money right now. And food. And they are planning to do follow up calls to everyone they registered to GOTV so calling is still important.

  107. 107
    Kay says:

    @shortstop:

    O/T but TPM has a headline “new polls suggest premature Dem freak-out”.

    I didn’t read it and I don’t know if it’s true, but that is an instant classic.

  108. 108
    Another Halocene Human says:

    @shortstop: It was actually lucky as hell because I picked up a stage costume at a rummage sale that looked nicely quattrocento (musta been from a low-rent Bard production) and was actually very comfortable to wear, and I had the frou frou nobility shoes, too. I think the flaming red tights made it, though.

    I even had an entourage of siblings, heh heh.

    I did young Lorenzo, although I didn’t get the hair quite right. I think I could probably do older Lorenzo now. I’d have to practice my hatchet face.

  109. 109
    Another Halocene Human says:

    @Kay: Reading TPM is usually not worth it.

  110. 110
    shortstop says:

    @Another Halocene Human: I loved every word of this.

  111. 111
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    @eemom:

    I don’t actually care, because I had more fun last debate on FB—but I might point out that, except in the rare case of an extraordinarily talented blogger like Rude Pundit, live blogging is kind of pointless without comments. With all due respect, none of y’all—except maybe Mrs. Sarah—are in that category.

    We’d prolly be fine with regular blog-commenting if we could figure out some way to ensure mistermix didn’t have to endure a slowdown like the proles. That seems to be the entire point here.

  112. 112
    Cassidy says:

    @Another Halocene Human: Well, we went from Arkham City HQ and a couple days of pouting and sulleness because I told her that was a little too mature for her age. The funny part is that she knew I would say that and already had a plan to alter the op by wearing a tank top and covering up the skin. Honestly, that would have been fine, but she didn’t anticipate me being not cool with the hip hugger vinyl pants. Who’d a thunk right? A dad not being cool with that.

  113. 113
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @Cassidy: hip hugger vinyl? that doesn’t sound comfortable. BTW have you finally succeeded in kicking the cancer stick away?

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