I Believe The Word You’re Looking For Is “Boy.”

Soonergrunt and I saw this at about the same time*, but here’s that survivor of adversity Josh Romney commenting on the nature and character of the President of the United States (via TPM):

“I don’t know if you guys saw the debate last week,” Josh Romney said, as the crowd cheered and applauded. “I take a lot of pride in that, because — I don’t know if you noticed, but I was — me and my brothers were responsible for my dad doing so well…

“So as a father, he learned how to debate an obstinate child. We had a lot of fun, we had a lot of fun watching the debate.”

Seriously, once again I find myself in the odd position of wanting to thank a member of the opposing team.  Really, Josh, I appreciate this insight, this glimpse inside the real views of Team Romney.

The President of the United States — the one who steered the country through the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression, the one who passed the most significant health care reform in two generations, the one who saved the auto industry (in which your own family once took pride, as I recall), the one who steered a very delicate course that ended with the fall of more than one dictator and the transformation of autocratic Arab regimes into something much closer to one their own people recognize as legitimate, the guy who got Bin Laden and all the rest — that great American is to you “an obstinate child.”


Oh — and I forgot to mention.  That president, our president, your president, like it or not, happens to be the first African-American to hold that office, which among many other things means he has to deal with a level of identity pressure unlike anything a born-rich, never-has-to-wonder-about-your-children’s-children’s-material-well-being guy like yourself.  And with all of that you’re going to call that man “an obstinate child.”  Just a brat arguing with Daddy-knows-best at the dinner table.  A servant, perhaps, a member of the lower orders, who should, by rights, know his place?

As I said, the word you are looking for is “boy.”  Really, you just said it.

IOW:  we approach asymptotically the point at which the entire GOP shouts as one: Ni-CLANG!

Oh. One more thing. Again, thanks Josh.  A significant portion of your dad’s polling boost has come from increased enthusiasm on your side, and a depressed drop on ours.  Stuff like this makes me and mine take notice, and it only does us good when you stir the pot this way.

Speaking out of snark for just one minute, despite all the evidence to date, Josh Romney’s remark reminds me once again that there is simply no bottom over there — no reservoir of shame nor self awareness that can puncture the single conviction that I can be sure the Romney clan possesses:  that theirs is the divine right to rule.  Such faith is, of course, singularly disqualifying its possessors from the reward they seek.

Let us make it so.

*Soonergrunt twittered on it first, but I got to Starbucks WiFi before he did, so there!

.Image: Jan Mitjans, Portrait of Maria of Orange with Hendrik van Zuijlestein and a servant,  c. 1665

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163 replies
  1. 1
    raven says:

    Fuckin little punk.

  2. 2
    brettvk says:

    I wish I didn’t hate these people this much, but they keep saying things like this, and it makes me wish painful death on them.

  3. 3
    gogol's wife says:

    I can’t watch that clip. These people make me physically ill.

  4. 4
    Violet says:

    I don’t think Josh Romney even knows he does stuff like this. If you asked him about it, he’d probably say, “As every parent knows, dealing with kids sharpens your debate skills” or something. Honestly, it’s so ingrained I don’t think they have any clue how it sounds to the rest of us who are aware of racial, class, social, gender differences and our history.

    When you’re a rich white man and you grew up in a rich white family, you really don’t have a clue unless you make a point to get one.

  5. 5
    Pavonis says:

    The Romney boys have a 100 million dollar trust fund from their father. I do hope they’re doing something extraordinary with their lives using that advantage.

    Just checked. Except for one doctor the rest are in finance and real estate. Yawn.

  6. 6
    Tom Levenson says:

    @brettvk: Not death. No physical harm. Public, deep, irredeemable humiliation — that I’m OK with.

  7. 7
    cckids says:

    So, Josh, you had “a lot of fun” watching the debate? Enjoy it,you racist little fuckstick . The rest of us had lots of fun all year watching your dad walk all over his dick trying to act like a human being. Now that you’ve had your little moment on the upside, the real Romney comes back out to play, and Daddy will get his ass handed to him. Thanks for playing, asswipe.

    ps, sorry for the swearieness, SPT and my son are bad influences.

  8. 8
    gogol's wife says:


    They’re helping their father run for president.

    And, Violet, I think he knew exactly what he was saying.

  9. 9
    eric says:

    @raven: back the fuck off. that little punk, as you so thoughtlessly and demeaningly called him, has done more and risked more for his country than you could ever dream of….my god, he stood arm and arm with Tagg supporting his father’s run for office. that is a level of sacrifice you could only dream about. that is Seal Team 6 shit, right there. so back off. i raise a glass of Bollinger Blanc de Noirs Vieilles Vignes Francaises 1997 in his honor.

  10. 10
    Villago Delenda Est says:


    No chance.

    These fucking cowards supported the worthless illegal, immoral war in Iraq, yet could not find a scrap of honor in their alleged characters to put their own precious asses on the line.

  11. 11
    gnomedad says:

    But some libruls said W had Daddy issues, so Both Sides Do It and Not Racist At All.

  12. 12
    Comrade Mary says:

    It’s bait. It’s meant to get under Obama’s skin and make him easier to needle at the next debate.

    This still makes him a vile little fuck, scion of a family of vile little fucks, but this isn’t a spontaneous expression of his vile fuckitude, but a strategic use of his vile fuckitude.

    (Violet, you’re being generous, but he doesn’t deserve your charity. He knows exactly what he’s saying.)

  13. 13
    TheMightyTrowel says:

    @gogol’s wife: I’m with you. They may be sheltered and privileged but they’ve been part of a nasty racist campaign for too long to cry innocence and ignorance.

  14. 14
    brettvk says:

    @Tom Levenson: I become a worse person when contemplating the people who produce these statements. Thus my despair.

  15. 15
    Violet says:

    I wasn’t trying to excuse his behavior. And maybe everyone is right that he knew what he was doing. But this kind of ingrained, casual racism and demeaning of the President are so normal to them that I am not sure they even know they’re doing it.

    That doesn’t excuse it–in fact, it makes it worse. If he was being a calculated dick, then, well, maybe he’s just a dick. But if he doesn’t even know he’s being a dick or even what he said unless someone calls him on it (and then he of course denies it), that seems worse.

  16. 16
    MikeJ says:

    we approach asymptotically the point at which the entire GOP shouts as one: Ni-CLANG!

    Doesn’t asymptotically mean it will never be reached? I wouldn’t bet on it. These are people that organize to run their SUVs in their driveways on earth day just to piss off liberals. I can easily imagine them organizing to yell “nigger.”

  17. 17
    shortstop says:

    @Violet: All that, absolutely, plus this lagniappe: Why were Mitt and Ann Romney’s kids all such fucking chronic liars growing up?

  18. 18
    lamh35 says:

    oh, but he only “alluded” to the POTUS as obstinate child, he did directly say Obama was an obstinate child.

    That’s just enough distance for the RWNJ and the “liberal” media to dismiss is as just “rhetoric”

    Jeez I can’t stand those fuckers.

    On other GOP/Can’t stand those fuckers news, Gawd damn u karma for making me feel sad for Sarah freakin’ Palin

    ‘I’m writing a fitness book!’ Sarah Palin hits back as the row grows over her shocking new skinny figure

    The woman looks sick and jeez, I really hate that I’m saying this, but she really does look like she needs help. In some of the pictures, she literally looks like a before and after pic of someone on meth!

    I sincerely hope someone has her ear and is telling her something’s wrong.

  19. 19
    Lie to me, say Republicans says:

    “The potato salad is fine. Go ahead and have some.”

  20. 20
    raven says:

    @eric: I never thought of it that way. I actually had some French bread in the Mekong Delta when daddy was having some in Pareeee. My mistake.

  21. 21
    shortstop says:

    @lamh35: Similarly, Jack Welch never typed the words “White House” in his infamous tweet. Jesus, these people are all thoroughgoing weasels. No normal person goes through life expecting this stuff to fly.

  22. 22
    RareSanity says:

    @Tom Levenson:

    I’ll settle for an electorial defeat and the joy of having that little wanker stands there and watch his dear ole Dad deliver his concession speech.

  23. 23
    raven says:

    @RareSanity: Whatup bro???

  24. 24
    shortstop says:

    @RareSanity: It’s not enough! I want the whole fortune squandered on the hopeless dream of a Mitt presidency! I want those five obstinate children crying over getting no inheritance because Daddy was bored and wanted a big new toy!

  25. 25
    different-church-lady says:

    I’ma say two things here:

    1) Tactically I ain’t gonna discourage anyone from making hay out of this.

    2) Realistically, it’s quite a stretch. I don’t at all think Josh Romney meant a direct comparison, and that is in spite of my extreme disdain for that entire spoiled brat clan. At worst it’s foot in mouth. It’s not event horizon.

  26. 26
    nepat says:


  27. 27
    Violet says:

    @lamh35: She really does look ill. And she’s dressing more and more like a working girl. She looks ridiculous for someone almost 50.

  28. 28
    RareSanity says:


    What’s up Raven?

    I sure hated being right about The Ole Ball Coach. That was just ugly.

  29. 29
    Lie to me, say Republicans says:

    “Oh definitely! Seat belts are for losers.”

  30. 30
    Villago Delenda Est says:


    Palin’s another one of these uncoachable wretches who frankly do not deserve so much as a picogram of our attention.

  31. 31
    raven says:

    @RareSanity: An ass whippin for the ages. And Carolina hangs 40+ on the Hokies in 3 quarters! I actually bailed after the 3d SC score and went back to the commitment ceremony!

  32. 32
    RareSanity says:


    Yeah, but it’s not going to happen, however deserving they are for such a fate.

    I’m going to set my expectations on something that is actually possible so I can actually enjoy the moment.

  33. 33
    ThatLeftTurnInABQ says:


    I’ll settle for an electorial defeat and the joy of having that little wanke too stands there and watch his dear ole Dad deliver his concession speech.

    Compounded by the knowledge that they blew on those dogwhistles until they turned blue in the face, and it still didn’t work. Folks this is what it looks like when the GOP’s Southern Strategy hits a wall at 75 mph and the airbag doesn’t deploy because they cut it up to make more sheets with eyeholes.

  34. 34
    shortstop says:

    @different-church-lady: Well, can we agree on this? Mitt’s bitchin’ debate stylists put that “I had five boys, I know when people are lying to me” thing into his sophist lineup for the very purpose of making the president seem like a child, not the competent and in-control leader of the free world.

    You can leave the racial implications in or out of that; me, I’m leaving them in because there’s quite a long and wide American history of white people comparing black adults to children. But even if you leave race out, the allusion to president-as-child is there.

    Now Josh just happens to say it again. It ain’t accidental twice in one week; it’s now a theme.

  35. 35
    Comrade Mary says:

    @different-church-lady: Gotta disagree: it was deliberate, right down to the buildup where he crowed about the way he and his brothers helped his father in the debate. They were obstinate children: Mitt trained against them, then went up against — what? a constitutional lawyer? an accomplished writer? the President of the United states? Nope: just another obstinate child.

    Anyway, this is reaching the expected levels of blue anger and red delight, if any of y’all care to Google josh romney obstinate.

    Bait. And is noticing the bait and discussing it as bait the same as taking the bait? Maybe.

  36. 36
    shortstop says:

    @RareSanity: Okely dokely. But Ima keep it in my wank bank.

  37. 37
    RareSanity says:


    You chose wisely.

  38. 38
    gnomedad says:


    The woman looks sick and jeez, I really hate that I’m saying this, but she really does look like she needs help. In some of the pictures, she literally looks like a before and after pic of someone on meth!

    Holy shit! She looks like she’s turning into Lindsay Lohan going through attention withdrawal.

  39. 39
    Lie to me, say Republicans says:

    “Go ahead, drink up! I promise to drive you home later.”

  40. 40
    shortstop says:


    the GOP’s Southern Strategy hits a wall at 75 mph and the airbag doesn’t deploy because they cut it up to make more sheets with eyehole

    That’s some solid work right there. Very nice.

  41. 41
    SatanicPanic says:

    @shortstop: It is a theme. It was uncomfortable when Romney said it, but I thought he was just being a prick. Now it’s looking like it’s something they actually sat down and discussed. I never thought anyone would run a nastier campaign than Bush in 2004, but Romney has done it.

  42. 42
    raven says:

    @RareSanity: I dvr’d it and was able to wallow in full agony without commercials.

  43. 43
    RareSanity says:


    No law against that.

    The wank bank is designed for those purposes exactly.LOL

  44. 44
    Darkrose says:

    @brettvk: Yeah, I keep trying to tell myself that it’s bad karma to wish harm on someone, but it’s increasingly difficult not to with these disgusting dickmuffins.

  45. 45
    Comrade Mary says:

    @shortstop: Co-signed. Even if this wasn’t planned as part of the debate — and I think it’s plausible that it was, but I won’t insist on it — they are playing on it now because it works with the butthurt felt by those who have been collectively scolding Obama.

    They want to work and work and work the themes of incompetence, weakness, even childishness, versus Big Daddy Romney, who raised his little liars right.

    Unless anyone here has a TARDIS and a bow tie, this would be a good time to stop freaking out, stop shitting on Obama and deal with this vile little fucks.

  46. 46
    Arm The Homeless says:

    OT: Anyone want to wager a guess on whether Halo 4 coming out the same day as voting will have any measurable effect on turnout in certain target demographics?

  47. 47
    Lie to me, say Republicans says:

    “It’s not that high. Go ahead and jump down.”

  48. 48
    Maude says:

    She’s not ill. She has deliberately lost the wight. She also looks like she had breast implants ala Dolly Parton.

  49. 49
    wrb says:


    All that, absolutely, plus this lagniappe: Why were Mitt and Ann Romney’s kids all such fucking chronic liars growing up?

    To be observant.

    “Lying for the Lord” is good, I gather, according to their theology.

    Seriously, I’ve wondered if this is why Mitt can lie so shamelessly without tell that people who judge with their guts can pick up.

    Most people have a sense that lying is bad and feel conflicted when they do it.

    If you were raised to think it good and holy if it furthers the cause, you would be free of conflict.

  50. 50
    RareSanity says:


    If he loses the cocktail party, the seat in his F150 is going to start feeling pretty warm.

  51. 51
    Shakespeare says:

    Just pointing out that the context for Tagg/Track/Tick/Tank’s remarks was Romney saying at the debate that he raised five sons so he knows all about debating liars.

    So they’re both racist fucks. And homophobic and sexist for good measure. Mormons, after all.

  52. 52
    Amir Khalid says:

    Dolly Parton has breast implants? Say it ain’t so!

  53. 53
    shortstop says:

    @wrb: Aren’t wingers always accusing Mooslims of this?

    Seriously, can you point me to some Mormon teaching that actually condones lying for the cause? This is the first time I’ve heard this theory.

  54. 54
    trollhattan says:

    Mother’s little helper?

    Maybe she’s trying out for “The Nutcracker”?

  55. 55
    shortstop says:

    @Amir Khalid: Breathe deeply. I believe those are real, not store-boughten.

  56. 56
    raven says:

    @RareSanity: The natives are awfully restless already. Punk messin with Arron’s house need to be lynched.

  57. 57
    Mary G says:

    Ugh. We have got to make sure these people are defeated. All my emails these days are from the Obama/Biden campaign plus about 10 senate candidates I’ve donated to. I am going to make calls to swing state voters from home, since I am physically and financially limited in what I can do.

  58. 58
    Joel says:

    You know what? Fuck these guys. Don’t care what they have to say, because they have nothing. I’m feeling good about this thing again. Let’s win this motherfucker so that the Romneys can go the way of the Palins that preceded them.

  59. 59
    Violet says:

    @Maude: She could be anorexic or bulimic. She’s definitely got psychological issues, so that sort of response to her waning popularity wouldn’t surprise me.

  60. 60
    raven says:

    @Joel: Nah, they have dough and will either way.

  61. 61
    Maude says:

    @Amir Khalid:
    I was saddened when I learned that Dolly indeed had falsies.

    Our front pager bragged about beating a deathly ill Sooner to wifi. I knew there was a reason I liked Tom.

    To add, Sarah is exercising and she loses weight in some places. She is very strong. She is carrying stuff and her stride is powerful.

  62. 62
    SteveinSC says:

    Speaking of running dog whistles in reverse, it seems to me that the Obama team should be running ads in the old confederacy and its newly acquired territories, that Romney has thrown them under the bus by ripping off his cloak to reveal “Moderate Man” the long-thought-extinct type of Republican. He is now in favor of all those things he shortly ago swore in Moroni’s little Jesus’ name that he despised while wearing his disguise of “Seriously Conservative” macho man. They better check his stance on abortion, affordable health care, taxing the rich, equal pay for women. Mein Gott the list is endless! They better not trust this tricky Mormon! He’s selling you out you mindless redneck fucks!

  63. 63
    shortstop says:

    @raven: But no one has ever said “No,” “I’m afraid you can’t have that,” or “Hey, fuck you” to them before…not in 40 or 50 years, anyway. The psychological damage this will do to them–the embarrassment and bewilderment and rage it will engender–will be worlds beyond the disappointment normal people feel when we don’t get something we want.

    Mmmmmm, I get kind of excited just thinking of their extreme mental distress.

  64. 64
    raven says:

    @shortstop: One of them will just pick up the mantle and run.

  65. 65
    Yutsano says:

    @shortstop: Dolly as usual is coy about it. However she has been making breast jokes since she was poor and relatively inknown.

  66. 66


    You can leave the racial implications in or out of that; me, I’m leaving them in because there’s quite a long and wide American history of white people comparing black adults to children. But even if you leave race out, the allusion to president-as-child is there.
    Now Josh just happens to say it again. It ain’t accidental twice in one week; it’s now a theme.

    Bingo. You have got to be immensely naive or ignorant not to realize what is transpiring here. It’s some of the most disrespectful shit in the world. And what makes it all even more infuriating is just how casually such racist utterances are accepted by the Traditional Media.

    I can’t wait until The Village burns.

  67. 67
    shortstop says:

    @Yutsano: Nothing in this world is genuine. NOTHING!

  68. 68
    different-church-lady says:


    Mitt’s bitchin’ debate stylists put that “I had five boys, I know when people are lying to me” thing into his sophist lineup for the very purpose of making the president seem like a child, not the competent and in-control leader of the free world.

    OK, I find the combined effect of the two instances more persuasive.

    Maybe I need to see and hear this stuff with my own eyes and ears to hear the dog whistles.

  69. 69
    SatanicPanic says:

    @SteveinSC: THIS. Everytime I troll on wingnuts I like to throw out- “yeah, he won the debate, by going back to his old RINO self. How do you like that?” I don’t imagine it matters all that much, but I like throwing it in their face.

  70. 70
    Paul says:


    “Lying for the Lord” is good, I gather, according to their theology.

    It is so screwed up. Their prophet endorsed the attack on Iraq. Funny stuff for a church that claims it is Christian. Compare that to the Pope who spoke against it.

  71. 71
    LanceThruster says:


    That’s about as nice a way as I could think to say it.

    What a bloody douche-nozzle.

    I’ve pretty much nothing but foul expletives for the entire clan.

  72. 72
    shortstop says:

    @raven: As what? The hedge fund-managing son of the universally unlikable and unmarketable Mitt Romney? Go for it, Romney children. Hope you make it to the first primary.

  73. 73
    the Conster says:


    Is this good news for John McCain? Because this is who he chose to be put in charge of the country in his absence. Holy fucking shit.

  74. 74
    lamh35 says:

    @Comrade Mary: like I said in the Romney thread over at Coates place, the Liberal/Dem/Sully/whatever “freakout” was par for the course (although I suspect the RW would be more likely and quickly to back their guy up. But us Dems are more moral folk the the right I guess) so meh on that…but the adopting of so much of the RW critic of Obama (too “arrogant” or “lazy” to prep) by not just Sully, but a few Obama “partisan” that I respected pisses me off more than anything. yes the debate wasn’t Obama’s shining moment, but adopting RW tropes ain’t the way to make any argument in my book. And I don’t believe that any Obama partisan/supporter would ever be okay with anyone putting the performance or critic of Obama in those terms. But from the comments I’ve read here and elsewhere, it would seem that even some of Obama supporters are quick to run through those tropes when Obama falls short. It’s kind of telling in a way.

    This Obama as obstinate child trope in right up in there with the laziness and arrogance trope that not just the right, but certain Obama “supporters” have dealt in since the debates.

  75. 75
    wrb says:


    You can google “lying for the lord” and find plenty.

    I once read a lengthy history of it but don’t remember where. If I recall correctly, it is rooted in early deflections of accusations of polygamy, and tied to the changeability of the faith- that for example, suddenly the teachings about black people are no more.

    A couple of the first that come up.

    “Lying for the Lord refers to the practice of lying to protect the image of and belief in the Mormon religion, a practice which Mormonism itself fosters in various ways. From Joseph Smith’s denial of having more than one wife, to polygamous Mormon missionaries telling European investigators that reports about polygamy in Utah were lies put out by “anti-Mormons” and disgruntled ex-members, to Gordon B. Hinckley’s dishonest equivocation on national television over Mormon doctrine, Mormonism’s history seems replete with examples of lying. Common members see such examples as situations where lying is justified. For the Mormon, loyalty and the welfare of the church are more important than the principle of honesty, and plausible denials and deception by omission are warranted by an opportunity to have the Mormon organization seen in the best possible light. This is part of the larger package of things that lead many to describe Mormonism as a cult. “Lying for the lord” is part of Mormonism’s larger deceptive mainstreaming tactics, and conversion numbers would drastically lower if important Mormon beliefs were fully disclosed to investigators. “


    This is quoted from ‘The Mormon Hierarchy – Origins of Power’ by Dr. D. Michael Quinn, Signature Books 1994. I highly recommend the book. It has over 300 pages of references. It took years to write, and it demonstrates in incredible detail, his lifetime of Mormon historical research.

    pg. 88: “Smith remained aloof from civil office, but in November 1835 he announced a doctrine I [Quinn] call ‘theocratic ethics’. He used this theology to justify his violation of Ohio’s marriage laws by performing a marriage for Newel Knight and the undivorced Lydia Goldthwaithe without legal authority to do so… In addition to the bigamous character of this marriage, Smith had no license to perform marriages in Ohio.
    Although that was the first statement of this concept, Smith and his associates put that theology into practice long before 1835, and long after. Two months later Smith performed marriage ceremonies for which neither he nor the couples had marriage licenses, and he issued marriage certificates “agreeable to the rules and regulations of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Theocratic ethics justified LDS leaders and (by extension) regular Mormons in actions which were contrary to conventional ethics and sometimes in violation of criminal laws.
    This ethical independence is essential for understanding certain seemingly inconsistent manifestations in Mormonism. Some had already occurred – reversals in doctrine and divinely revealed procedures, and the publication of unannounced changes in written revelations and historical texts. [I have examples of these below.] The Knight marriage was a public example of Joseph Smith’s violation of laws and cultural norms regarding marriage and sexual behavior – the performance of civil marriages by legally unauthorized officiators, monogamous marriage ceremonies in which one or both partners were undivorced from legal spouses, polygamous marriage of a man with more than one living wife, his marriage proposals to females as young as twelve, his sexual relationships with polygamous wives as young as fourteen, polyandry of women with more than one husband, marriage and cohabitation with foster daughters, and Mormon marriages of first cousins, brother-sister, and uncle-niece. Other manifestations of Mormonism’s theocratic ethics would soon begin in Kirkland and continue intermittently for decades – the official denials of actual events, the alternating condemnation and tolerance for counterfeiting and stealing from non-Mormons, threats and physical attacks against dissenters or other alleged enemies, the killing and castration of sex offenders, the killing of anti-Mormons, the bribery of government officials, and business ethics at odds with church standards.”
    References for the above:
    Dallin H. Oaks, Apostle, “Gospel Teachings About Lying”, Clark Memorandum BYU (Spring 1994 pg. 16-17). In this Oaks acknowledges ‘Lying for the Lord’ by early Mormon leaders. Joseph Smith lied about many of his activities and the overwhelming historical evidence forced Oaks to admit the lies. Among Mormons and former Mormons it has become known as “Lying for the Lord”.
    Bribery was OK: Journal of Discources vol. 9:4-5


  76. 76
    Paul says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    These fucking cowards supported the worthless illegal, immoral war in Iraq, yet could not find a scrap of honor in their alleged characters to put their own precious asses on the line.

    Don’t forget the cost of the war. These cheap, selfish, dishonest people started their dumb war, yet never had any intention of paying for it. And now you have Romney wanting a $5 trillion tax cut on top of that.

  77. 77
    shortstop says:

    @wrb: Fascinating, and total news to me. Thanks.

  78. 78
    scav says:

    @shortstop: Doesn’t speak well to the parenting skills of either Mitte or Annetoinette, that’s for sure. Dynasty of rude, clueless nasty twits. Will add pleasure to watch them all endure reality at some point.

  79. 79
  80. 80
    redshirt says:

    Damn! Palin is going full reality TV star. I blogged about this a few weeks back, but now wish I had waited for these new pics. Wow – ever closer to the day when the Presidency is determined in a “Dancing with Idols” type show.

  81. 81
    mk3872 says:

    And yet, still, Romney leads and is likely to win in November.

  82. 82
    Calouste says:


    She looks like the female Keith Richards.

  83. 83
    trollhattan says:


  84. 84
    muddy says:

    @Calouste: Perfect!

  85. 85

    @Shakespeare: And Mitt Romney at the debate very definitely did not call them his five sons when lumping the President with them as children. He called them “my five boys.”

  86. 86
    MikeBoyScout says:

    Don’t bitch.
    Don’t moan.
    Get Out The Vote!

    Gekko/Galt is the anvil
    We are the HAMMER!

    Hammer it home

  87. 87
    Maude says:

    I think Palin graduated from nutcracker to coconuts. It is all your fault that I said that, btw.

  88. 88
    lamh35 says:

    so romney new strategy is to completely ignore what he said past 18 months with a little help from the media.

  89. 89
    trollhattan says:

    Fine! [stomps off to clean keyboard]

  90. 90
    Narcissus says:

    I think the word they’re looking for is “shiftless”

  91. 91
    JWL says:

    Tom L: One question, posed with genuine regard for your political acumen.

    If Romney does prevail in November, what next for the democratic party?

  92. 92
    Maude says:

    Ryan came out with a real wingding about inner city. About “character” and discipline. We all know the drill. They are really building the racist bs up to a higher level that I’ve seen since the likes of Strom Thurmond.
    What gets me is that the lousy media isn’t calling them out on this.
    When Sununu said his lazy and all that remarks, the media just pretty much ignored it.
    Someone should ask Romney if he’s going for repealing the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

  93. 93
    El Cid says:

    Spoiled rich kid douchebag has spoiled rich douchebag kids.

  94. 94
    Tom Levenson says:

    @JWL: How the heck should I know? I’m just a guy with an internet connection (and 54 years of living in America, and 36 years of volunteering for Democrats beginning with the Good Father: Robert Drinan). We have a very strong bench — Hilary at the top I would say. We will still have the Senate, I’m pretty sure (crossing fingers). The House will be at least a bit closer, which always makes things interesting. And we know that the GOP is a party of opposition, not governance, so they’ll f**k it up in predictable ways.

    The rub is that the we face real, major problems that actually need things done, which the GOPsters won’t do, and the affirmative actions they may very well take will, based on the evidence we have to date (Bush 43, most obviously) make our difficulties worse.

    At the same time, the rolling coup-under-the-guise-of-law that’s been ongoing since Bush v. Gore (if not before) will gain further advantage from a Romney White House and Romney DOJ.

    All of which is to say that I think our concerns should be larger than what happens to the Democrats if Romney wins; it’s what happens to the country, and to the principle that government for, of and by the people should prevail in the land.

    This really could be for all the marbles, folks.

  95. 95
    Violet says:

    @JWL: Mass suicide.

  96. 96
    quannlace says:

    God, the sense of entitlement that exudes from that whole family, it’s not a waft, it’s a stench.

  97. 97
    Yutsano says:

    @trollhattan: Emoprog.

  98. 98
    redshirt says:

    Oh Democrats. Months of domination disappear in a debate in which the Repuke lied his ass off. Le sigh…

  99. 99
    Violet says:

    Sullivan is now calling the President vain and that he doesn’t “deign” to make a case for his presidency.

    Watching the meltdown is kind of fun. If you haven’t seen these two Twitter feeds mocking Sullivan, check them out:

  100. 100
    MomSense says:

    Dolly Parton had much bigger breasts back in the day but as you get older they just fall. She had a breast reduction and then a breast lift. I have always loved Dolly and I think she discussed it pretty openly at the time.

  101. 101
    Maude says:

    She never hurt anyone and isn’t a liar. I remember when she was first on tv. She had what it takes to make it.

  102. 102
    JPL says:

    @Tom Levenson: Your answer is correct. It’s not the party it’s the country.

  103. 103
    Ben Franklin says:

    @Tom Levenson:

    This really could be for all the marbles, folks.

    As a cautionary tale, see Cameron and the UK.

  104. 104
    Comrade Mary says:

    @Ben Franklin: Also Harper and Canada.

  105. 105
    Soylent Green says:

    Sarah Palin is a runner, and she works hard to stay in shape. She looks damn good for her age. How she looks has nothing to do with what she thinks.

  106. 106
    Eric U. says:

    @JWL: we survived Bush the lesser, we would survive Romney too. Probably be a lot less of us, and we’d all be living in the woods. The only redeeming feature of this distopian future is that the phrase “eat the rich” would be literal. Don’t think they can get a rich person’s paradise up in orbit fast enough to escape us.

  107. 107
    Sammy says:

    Wonder if Josh is the one who took Mitt’s illegial notes from Mitt after Mitt couldn’t get them into his right or left pocket?

    Mitt Romney, His Family And Cheating

    Mitt hands the cheating papers over to his son.

  108. 108
    MomSense says:

    You know the only reason people are freaking out about the debate is because the mostly white pundits all told/screeched/yelled at us that Romney won.

    And they had been building this meme for about a week before it even took place.

    I guess we all are supposed to just accept the criteria–aggressive, fast talking, saying things forcefully, looking straight at the President, etc.

    I thought his aggressive, fast talking style was bizarre-like someone on speed. He was even red faced and sweaty and a bit rambling. He was rude, interrupted, and lied a lot. My son was texting with his girlfriend during the debate. Her conservative roommate thought he looked creepy. Many of my former students said the same thing about the weird expression on his face while he looked at the President. One said that she didn’t know if he wanted to kiss the President or his Depends were leaking.

    To me it seems like we are upset only if we buy into the narrative the media created for us. Go back and watch it. I didn’t see the President as looking lethargic. He looked taken aback to me. I felt stunned as well when I heard Romney do a 180 on the central policy proposal of his campaign-across the board 20% tax cuts.

    And I am sooooo glad the President did not bring up the 47% line. If you saw Romney on Hannity, he had prepared his best “sincere” face and a thoroughly rehearsed and line tested response. That would have done much more damage. For me, I think the President made the right choice tactically. He avoided the big pitfalls. I told everyone that I expected the first debate to go Romney solely based on the history of Presidents and first debates. They are not used to being interrupted, having limited time, etc.

    Just ask Mondale, Kerry, Carter (in’80) whether winning the first debate matters.

  109. 109
    Violet says:

    @Soylent Green: Sarah Palin tells us she’s a runner. It’s up to us to decide whether to believe that.

    She did look very good when she was chosen for VP. Since then she’s aged tremendously. She’s also had some work done and it seems to have done more harm than good.

    Her weight loss is relatively recent and makes her look thin and ill. Maybe she meant to lose the weight but it’s not flattering.

  110. 110
    redshirt says:

    @Violet: Shallow as hell, I know, but I think she looks smokin’ now, more so than before. Still hate her, mind you – no starburstz.

  111. 111
    TheMightyTrowel says:

    @Yutsano: Just saw your comment on dead thread below….

    Tell your friend welcome to the arse end of the planet! I’m in the ACT so really in the middle of nowhere, but I seem not to have gone through the culture shock this time (too much work). My partner is moving here next month so I’m bracing myself for his version.

    Culture shock is no fun, but you pull out of it eventually. alcohol and chocolate help.

  112. 112
    MomSense says:

    I’m a huge Dolly Parton fan even though I’m not a huge country music fan.

    She is a tremendous songwriter, a smart business woman, and such an funny person.

    When Bob Edwards left NPR he played his favorite interviews and his interview with Dolly was his all time favorite.

    One of her quotes was “It takes a lot of money to look this trashy”. I just love her! I used to watch her weekly show. We are dating ourselves now!

  113. 113
    MikeJ says:


    Her weight loss is relatively recent and makes her look thin and ill. Maybe she meant to lose the weight but it’s not flattering.

    Same thing happened with Alton Brown when he lost some weight. Right after he lost it he looked gaunt. He got back to more normal looking without being visibly heavier. He did not, to the best of my knowledge, start wearing stripper heels.

  114. 114
    Bubblegum Tate says:


    Jebus. She’s gone full-on Real Housewife.

  115. 115
    gravie says:

    I’ll be doing get-out-the-vote canvassing the next two weekends in my neighboring state of Virginia. I can hardly wait.

  116. 116
    Hill Dweller says:

    The media was going to push the Willard won line regardless of the actual debate outcome, but the Matthews, Sullivan and Schultz reactions gave the rest of sociopathic careerists in the Village cover to hammer Obama, and give them the horse race they wanted all along.

  117. 117
    Maude says:

    She was on someone’s show before she had her own. Her voice was so lovely.
    She’s real.

  118. 118
    Violet says:

    Seriously? You think she looks good here? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....igure.html

    I think she looks like a hot mess.

  119. 119
    schrodinger's cat says:

    Andrew Sullivan just called Obama lazy on his blog, he was goofing off according to the hardworking pot smoking blogger.

  120. 120
    Violet says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: The hardworking pot smoking blogger who takes two weeks off at a time, multiple times per year, not bothering to check in while he’s gone.

  121. 121
    gwangung says:

    Hm. A young man who was born rich comparing a guy who fought his way from lower class to upper class to a child.

    Nah, not gonna make me angry. It’s just a total failure of an argument.

  122. 122
    McJulie says:


    You know the only reason people are freaking out about the debate is because the mostly white pundits all told/screeched/yelled at us that Romney won.

    So true. They are amplifying any Romney positives beyond reason — hyping them just as much as they will go. A disappointing draw/arguable loss becomes a clear and obvious loss becomes an epic smashing becomes Romney (apparently) winning the presidency in a single 90-minute blitzkrieg of lies.

    The freakouts that are really bothering me are the ones of the Obama tried to lose/Obama seemed disinterested/Obama didn’t prepare variety. That’s not critiquing a disappointing performance on one day — that’s attacking his motives and character. I just can’t believe that anyone who would do that was ever on our side to begin with.

  123. 123
    Tom Levenson says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: Saw that. Sully had been creeping back into my “worth a look” file.


    Hey: I agree with him that Obama really screwed up. But a single bad evening is not sufficient to decide that one of the most legislatively ambitious and successful Presidents of recent memory is lazy failure. I really don’t have any patience any more for Sullivan’s daddy issues. Just don’t.

  124. 124
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @Violet: That post of his made me really mad. Turncoat.

  125. 125
    lamh35 says:

    did Dems learn nothing from expectations game last time Biden will do fine, but fine=bad w/such high expectation. I see from my twitter timeline, that Ed Schultz and Tweety have all laid out what Biden better do on Thursday and the expectation that Biden wraps Romney’s lies around Ryan’s neck and all I see is a bunch of pundits on our side once again waging an expectations game that no way will Biden win. Ryan wins by default of standing up to Biden. mark my words, Biden will be fine, but the after debate punditry will of course be “not enough” on Biden’s part.

    I’d be interested in seeing what Rachel & Lawrence add to the expectations game.

  126. 126
    redshirt says:

    @Violet: Sadly, yes. She looks pretty hot. Like a B actress or washed up pop star. Not as a former VP candidate!

  127. 127
    El Cid says:

    I like to read Andrew Sullivan because out of the hundreds of thousands of writers throughout history and on blogs he is so, so, so fucking amazing that I just can’t stay away, he’s like some sort of fucking new Conrad, my God, apart from his entire oevre of shitty reasoning and stupid, ass-backwards pompous panicked right wing treason-accusing psuedo-arguments his prose is just so fucking amazing that I just have to keep going there and reading and reading and reading because out of the thousands of people who write around the world there’s just no one else in his league.

  128. 128
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @Tom Levenson: I must have seen a different debate than you and the Pundits. Romney came across as a bullying liar, smiling creepily all the time.

    ETA: I do think that explaining economics, which was the focus of the debate, is not Obama’s strongest suit.

  129. 129
    Ben Franklin says:

    I really don’t have any patience any more for Sullivan’s daddy issues. Just don’t.

    Getting more visceral with each take-down.

  130. 130
    Higgs Boson's Mate says:

    On the positive side, the little shite just torpedoed any possibility of a political career of his own while putting one square on daddy’s waterline.

  131. 131
    MikeJ says:

    @El Cid:

    he’s like some sort of fucking new Conrad

    What are they gonna say? That he was a kind man? That he was a wise man? That he had plans, man? That he had wisdom? Bullshit, man!

  132. 132
    Svensker says:

    @El Cid:

    Eggzackly. I just get so gobsmacked by him that it’s almost like high level meditation, the brain pulses a few times then clears. It’s better than a couple of double shots of espresso in the morning.

  133. 133
    kay says:


    It’s about him. He said Obama was like his hero, Reagan, so now he thinks the debate reflects poorly on HIM, Andrew Sullivan. Me, me, me. That’s all I hear when he talks.

    We have a magistrate here who was a Reagan delegate. He’s completely rational about Ronald Reagan. Can discuss him, good points, failures. It’s wild to listen to. He didn’t get the GOP memo.

  134. 134


    And am I gonna be the one that’s gonna set them straight? Look at me! Look at me! Wrong! [points at John Cole] You!

  135. 135
    FlipYrWhig says:


    I guess we all are supposed to just accept the criteria—aggressive, fast talking, saying things forcefully, looking straight at the President, etc.

    Yup. A bunch of shouty testosterone-fueled pundits started shouting in a testosterone-fueled way that the president wasn’t shouty or testosterone-fueled enough for their liking. The whole thing is circular, and we’ve seen it plenty of times before: the entire “Village” is obsessed with machismo, which they pretend is just their own knowledge of what Regular Guys Think but is basically themselves using imaginary Regular Guys for ventriloquism about their own psychosexual hangups.

    To what degree do people other than blowhards (to which add, for Sullivan’s sake, bears) give a shit about any of these things? Only to the degree to which we all have been soaking in a culture that treats Alpha Male dominance displays as evidence of political leadership. Which, of course, we all have been.

    But, for fuck’s sake, it’s getting really fucking old, and it’s soul-deadening to see a whole new generation of pro-am pundits in the blogosphere reenact all the same stupid shit: body language, hesitation, aggression, what not-very-masculine schlubs like Josh Marshall and Markos Moulitsas sometimes call “bitch slap” tactics… Dear God, borrow a copy of _Fifty Shades of Gray_ and jack it while the rest of us try to make and watch politics happen.

  136. 136
    El Cid says:

    @Svensker: I wish I could say that in the dozens of US and European papers each day and hundreds of blogs someone, just someone, could write with the the almost super-human prose skills of Andrew Sullivan, but, they just can’t.

    I mean, I’ve searched and searched, but I just have to keep going back.

    It’s true that so many of the arguments he makes are awful, even frightfully bad, but every now and then, he makes an argument I agree with, and he does so in that style which makes me imagine all sorts of Cambridge prestige, so I just melt, and I just keep going back, because no one else is worth reading man, just, no one.

  137. 137
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Ben Franklin: It’s not daddy issues, it’s masculinity issues. Quelle surprise.

  138. 138
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @FlipYrWhig: To me Romney came across like was auditioning for a Fox News gig

  139. 139
    MomSense says:


    Too funny! And Andrew says he is a supporter but he is the one sabotaging the President. This debate would be looong forgotten if he weren’t obsessing and catastrophizing incessantly.

  140. 140
    TexasMango says:

    I’ve been avoiding cable news, but I’ll guess none of them have even mentioned this.

    I guess it really is OK to call a black president a boy.

    And fuck anybody on left who is adopting GOP terms to describe Obama.

  141. 141
    kay says:


    I noticed it at the debate. Normal people don’t open with “my 5 boys lie constantly, and that makes them like my opponent”

    It’s a bizarre thing to say. It’s a way to equate boys and Obama.

    Of course no pundit said anything. The world ends if they mention it. The screeching from the Right would be unbearable. Then we’d have another fake-debate about “race in America” so at least we were spared that.

  142. 142
    Mnemosyne says:


    You know the only reason people are freaking out about the debate is because the mostly white male pundits all told/screeched/yelled at us that Romney won.

    Had to fix, because I really think it’s primarily a white male thing. As I was saying at the time, the only people impressed by Romney’s performance were white guys, because there’s something about that hyperactive “alpha male” shit that makes a lot of white dudes want to roll over and expose their bellies.

    Romney’s problem, of course, is that he already had the white male vote locked up. What he needed to do was convince women and minorities that they should vote for him, because the days of being able to win the presidency with the white male vote have been over for decades.

    I am a middle-aged white woman, and Romney’s performance made me think he was trying to sell me a lifetime supply of Sham-WOWs!

  143. 143
    brettvk says:

    @Maude: Porter Wagoner. I remember my first glimpse of Dolly on a B&W teevee when I was a child, on the Porter Wagoner show (they later had a rather painful professional breakup, IIRC). She actually wore a gingham dress, topped with those spectacular breasts, and I think they even put her hair in pigtails. Sometimes an image just sticks in your mind for the rest of your life.

  144. 144
    Jay in Oregon says:


    Sadly, yes. She looks pretty hot. Like a B actress or washed up pop star. Not as a former VP candidate!

    To be fair, she should never have been anywhere near the national stage.

    John McCain can FOAD for inflicting her and her shallow, mean family on the country.

  145. 145
    Gian says:

    Mitt raised 5 liars.

    that was my take away

    apples not far from tree

  146. 146
    amk says:

    Joy Reid tweet

    Pollster to @EJDionne: “I do a poll Repubs don’t like, they want to kill me. One Dems don’t like? They want to kill themselves.”

    Nice. And true.

  147. 147
    wrb says:


    Is this true?

    I’m a male who is genuinely puzzled by the reported movement of undecided females to the Romney side after the debate.

    Anyone have a theory?

  148. 148
    Violet says:

    @wrb: Theory: Suburban white women, who frequently vote Republican, who are scared by the freaky Republicans they see all the time were reassured by the NuMitt they saw at the debate. He didn’t seem like he was going to take away their birth control! He seems like their husband/dad! Vote Mitt!

  149. 149
    kay says:


    We have a lawyer here who is a new volunteer. First time ever. She’s a good lawyer and we’re lucky to have her. She’ll do voter protection on election day. She’s been following the endless freak out on cable TV and she said “are they always like that?” I told her “Yes. Always”

    I’m afraid they’re scaring her away . She’s been a “Democratic activist” for about 48 hours and she already hates us :)

  150. 150
    YellowJournalism says:

    I just can’t stop thinking about this. Would we have ever seen W’s daughters going around calling Gore or Kerry “obstinate children” after a debate? (Lame attempts at humor or poking fun at them, yes.) Palin and her snotty daughters I could maybe see it from (although the daughters may have left it as having practice arguing), and McCain came close with “that one.” It’s like it’s slowly getting worse. If he was able to run for a third term, I think his opponent might show up to a debate in a white hood, whirling a noose around the stage.

  151. 151
    Todd says:


    If Romney does prevail in November, what next for the democratic party?

    I either go all-in on being a full wingnut in order to preserve my station in life, or I start donating money to the new version of the Weathermen in order to help them acquire nitro fertilizer and the addresses of the homes, offices, country clubs and favorite resorts/nightclubs of the wealthy and their spawn.

  152. 152
    amk says:

    @kay: No wonder the kenyan muslin sezI don’t watch cable noise. We are gonna need smart lawyers like her this election pretty seriously. Way to turn them off.

  153. 153
    MomSense says:


    I thought I did write mostly white male pundits! Thank you for writing what I meant to say. I’ve been a bit hazy the last few days.

  154. 154
    Kane says:

    “I will not reduce the share paid by high-income individuals. I know that you and your running mate keep saying that, and I know it’s a popular thing to say with a lot of people, but it’s just not the case. Look, I got five boys. I’m used to people saying something that’s not always true, but just keep on repeating it and ultimately hoping I’ll believe it. But that is not the case, all right? I will not reduce the taxes paid by high-income Americans.”

    It caught my ear when Romney said it in the debate, and I’m surprised that others haven’t picked up on it.

  155. 155
    Mnemosyne says:


    I’m a male who is genuinely puzzled by the reported movement of undecided females to the Romney side after the debate.

    “Undecided female” is already “woman who doesn’t want to have to vote for the black guy,” so IMO any signs that Romney could speak without drooling on himself would probably sway them.

    I’m not at all surprised that right-leaning men (and right–leaning women) were swayed by Romney’s performance. What did shock me was how many supposedly left-leaning white men freaked out about it and were convinced that Obama had lost the election on the spot. WTF?

  156. 156
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Mnemosyne: OK, this is wholly speculative and even more petty of me to say, but, honestly, I think that a huge number of liberal pundits were nerds and dorks their whole lives, and they’ve ended up with a sort of arrested development. They always wish they had had the guts to fight back when it counted, so now they’re totally stuck on the idea that the politicians they support have to fight back and not get picked on. Then, with a different origin story, there are the blue-collar and blue-collar-by-proxy guys like Chris Matthews and Ed Schultz who _also_ crave rough and tumble politics rather than wussy bleeding hearts and flower power. So these freakouts are all about the overlapping neuroses of white liberal men and their craving for projections of toughness. As they were when it came to the debt ceiling, or health care, or any political issue where the big gripe is that Obama didn’t fight hard enough.

  157. 157
    Spatula says:

    So now “obstinate child = n****r.


    Well, if you say so.

  158. 158

    @Spatula: Dense doesn’t really become you, but I can’t control your life choices.

    It’s the infantilization of a grown man, Spatula, especially when the two Romney quotes are seen together. The history of African-American men being demeaned by being called “boy” is something I didn’t think anyone could actually deny. But then again, that appears to be why God invented the Internet.

  159. 159
    The Klown says:

    This place is funnier than The Onion.

  160. 160
    Comrade Mary says:

    @Joseph Nobles: Three Romney quotes. Ann is riding that horse, too.

    Mitt Romney’s wife, Ann, equated President Obama’s campaign to a petulant child during an interview Tuesday after being asked about charges from the president’s campaign that her husband had “lied” during last week’s debate.
    “I mean, lied about what? This is something he’s been saying all along. This is what he believes. This is his policy, these are his statements,” Ann Romney said in an interview set to air Wednesday on Fox News. “I mean, lie — it’s sort of like someone that’s, you know, in the sandbox that like lost the game and they’re just going to kick sand in someone’s face and say, ‘you liar.’ I mean, it’s like they lost, and so now they just are going to say, OK, the game, we didn’t like the game. So to me, it’s poor sportsmanship.”

  161. 161
    Maude says:

    That was it. Her hair, when I saw her, was not as puffy and she was in demure clothing. Thanks.
    I know I’m late, but I had to go to bed early last night.

  162. 162
    Rome Again says:


    As someone who grew up in a household with the same types of attitudes (although a lot less money, but still enough to be considered very successful), I can assure you they DO know what they are saying and they don’t care if you call them on it. They will not have any compunction to cease repeatedly using demeaning language about those who don’t measure up to their standards. I saw this firsthand in my own family, hence the reason why I no longer talk to any of those people. Racism and derision for those who live lives of ‘less importance’ give these people delight. Calling them on it will solve absolutely nothing. They don’t believe what they are saying is wrong at all.

  163. 163

    […] up, some great analysis on the Presidential debate from Tugg Josh Romney:  “I don’t know if you guys saw the debate last week,” Josh Romney said, as the crowd cheered […]

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