Legends of the fall

Jonathan Chait thinks Ryan may emerge from this fall as a mere mortal, not the wonkish 6% bodyfat demigod that he was before.

Ryan is still an extremely skilled bullshitter — vastly better at it than Romney. But he’s actually seeing, for the first time, questions that attempt to pry information out of him, rather than the batting practice lobs to which he’s accustomed. He’s going to emerge from the race with his legend punctured.

Not sure I buy this. In a world where Art Laffer, Alan Greenspan, and Liz Cheney are still serious people, it seems to me that old wingnuts don’t die or even fade away, they just go to think tanks and Sunday morning shows to regroup.

Paul Ryan is a serious wonk because he is a serious wonk.






216 replies
  1. 1
    Calouste says:

    OT, but TPM’s descent to full Village-both-sides-do-it-content-free-win-the-minute status accelerates:

    Headline: “National Polls: Race Tightens”

    First article below that: “Mitt Dragging Them Down?”

  2. 2
    piratedan says:

    hell if Ralph freaking Reed can be rehabilitated back into the party structure, this will be perceived as a win by Mr. Casual Cruelty

  3. 3
    Eric U. says:

    I think the marathon story may have done him in more than the “no time to explain the math” story. The latter is just a symptom of his loss of status.

  4. 4
    Butch says:

    I think the last quote in the Chait piece says something about Ryan that ain’t good – referring not to your opponent but to “your enemy.”

  5. 5
    David Fud says:

    @Metrosexual Manichean Monster DougJ: I’m glad that you have embraced your classification with appropriate verve. You are a Manichean Monster because you are a Manichean Monster.

  6. 6
    The Moar You Know says:

    He’s going to emerge from the race with his legend punctured.

    Not happening. He’ll run in 2016 and be some other designated loser’s VP pick.

  7. 7
    Spaghetti Lee says:

    We should all be so lucky.

  8. 8
    Shawn in ShowMe says:

    Ryan’s going to emerge from the race with his legend punctured in the eyes of whom? The 27%? Unlimited Corporate Cash? Fox News? The Villagers?

    Nope, this is their rock star and a crappy album of duets released under the Romney label won’t materially effect his image. The GOP has too much invested in him. We’re going to keep pushing Chris Brown until you accept his awesomeness, dammit.

  9. 9

    @piratedan:

    hell if Ralph freaking Reed Richard Fucking Nixon can be rehabilitated back into the party structure, this will be perceived as a win by Mr. Casual Cruelty

    FTFY.

  10. 10
    the Conster says:

    @Eric U.:

    I think this too – it shows how carelessly he lies, and how he lies about things there isn’t a good reason to lie about, and that no one else would. It was a real tell.

  11. 11
    jl says:

    I first read that title as ‘Legends of the Fail’

  12. 12
    Napoleon says:

    I have to disagree, I think Ryan has been seriously wounded. He is the first “serious” conservative that I have ever seen so many Villagers move away from so rapidly. I think the trick this time is that I think his reputation was shattered fairly close to his rise in prominence. He hasn’t had 10 years on the talk show circuit.

    The interesting thing will be whether the right ever has any idea of how bad he has been trashed.

  13. 13
    Anoniminous says:

    Obama’s advisers must be pleased with themselves. Lyin’ Ryan was a GOP backbench nobody goofball until Obama singled him out during the ACA froo-froo. Now he’s the GOP VP candidate goofball Poster Child for glibertarian Fundie/Con policy.

    And he’s cost them their commanding lead among the 65+ crowd.

  14. 14
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    I am not representative of the American electorate or population. I still can’t quite believe we let Dumbya occupy the White House. I thought Dancing with the Stars would be cancelled before it’s third episode. The only thing that yam and marshmallow dish should be used for is caulk. And I hate pumpkin pie. That said, the more I see of Paul Ryan, the more convinced I am he has risen as high as he’s going to. People hate his ideas, and he’s a known quantity, I don’t think he can bluff his way in to higher office like Walker did. Also, too, for all his blue-eyed low body fat, he has the stage presence of the understudy in a high school production of Brigadoon. His hammy, graceless mugging is overshadowed by Romney’s unique combination woodenness and I’m-better-than-you arrogance.

  15. 15
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    So you guys think that Romney will have to carry all the loser stink?

  16. 16
    👽 Martin says:

    Jonathan Chait thinks Ryan may emerge from this fall as a mere mortal, not the wonkish 6% bodyfat demigod that he was before.

    Again, the only reason why anyone paid attention to Ryan is because Obama built him up. Obama gave credibility to Ryan’s budget by treating it seriously, by inviting Ryan to speeches and so on. Obama created an environment that projected that Ryan was a serious threat (because everyone was too lazy to scratch the surface), but where he knew Ryans actually positions were totally toxic.

    I mean, we’re having the election everyone wanted. This is legitimately turning into a referendum on how Medicare and Social Security should be handled, how taxes should be handled, and so on. This is less about Obama v Romney and more about Democratic ideals vs Republican ones – and we’re winning it against an economic and campaign spending backdrop that should have us losing badly.

    Of course Ryan will emerge as mortal, because he only got his superpowers when Obama handed them to him, and after the election, Obama will take them away again.

  17. 17
    cervantes says:

    Well, it’s a matter of degree. He may still show up on Press the Meat but he doesn’t have the chops for a think tank, even a phony wingnut welfare operation. And he’s got no chance for the Senate or other Great Things, he’ll just go back to being a backbencher. So yeah, he may still be a prominent inhabitant of Wingnutistan, but he won’t have a prominent place in the downtown of The Village any more. Not if he can’t even answer Chris Wallace’s questions.

  18. 18
    jl says:

    @Napoleon:

    I agree with you. I don’t think Ryan is a good BSer compared to Laffer, or Greenspan, or even Dub or McCain.

    If Ryan has been playing dumbass in recent interviews, then maybe he is not an awful BSer. If he has not been playing inarticulate choker, then veep debate will be interesting.

  19. 19
    David Hunt says:

    Paul Ryan is a serious wonk because he is a serious wonk.

    We have always been at war with East Asia.

  20. 20
    Tom Q says:

    @Calouste: Marshall is, as you say, an aspiring Villager, but those headlines also indicate ignorance of how polls work. For the race to show “tightening”, you’d need a poll that previously showed a wider lead now showing a smaller one. But the ABC poll — the one getting all the attention — is pretty much where the previous ABC one was, so it didn’t tighten at all.

    Makes a nice scary headline, though.

  21. 21
    Tom Q says:

    @Calouste: Marshall is, as you say, an aspiring Villager, but those headlines also indicate ignorance of how polls work. For the race to show “tightening”, you’d need a poll that previously showed a wider lead now showing a smaller one. But the ABC poll — the one getting all the attention — is pretty much where the previous ABC one was, so it didn’t tighten at all.

    Makes a nice scary headline, though.

  22. 22
    👽 Martin says:

    @Calouste: I don’t see how that’s in any way contradictory. One is forward looking based on daily tracking which shows a trend toward tightening over yesterday, the other is backward looking based on new polling that suggests that the drop in support for Romney carried over to others. With no daily tracking, there’s really no way to show a trend, just a potential correlation.

  23. 23
    Ben Cisco says:

    @jl: That would have been awesomer, I must admit.

  24. 24

    @Anoniminous:

    Lyin’ Ryan was a GOP backbench nobody goofball until Obama singled him out during the ACA froo-froo.

    Bullshit. Ryan was ranking member of the Budget Committee starting in 2007 and was promoted to Chairman when the Republicans took control of the House. That’s not a backbencher.

  25. 25
    eric says:

    two points: first, i think it is likely correct that Ryan’s presidential ambitions took a hit. he has never won a state wide election, so until he does so, i think it HIGHLY unlikely that he plays in this particular sandbox.

    that said, however, other than Cantor, there is no real competition for Ryan in the House leadership and the mass of those mopes are lucky they can spell ‘ryan.” so i see Ryan as a national figure by being a player in the GOP house, so long as the GOP maintains the majority.

  26. 26
    ThatLeftTurnInABQ says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    So you guys think that Romney will have to carry all the loser stink?

    __
    It depends on the election result cross-tabs for the over-65 set (aka yelling at chair voters). They are a traditional GOP stronghold. If Romney/Ryan actually lose this demographic in the Midwest and key states outside the Midwest then I think Paul The-First-Rule-of-Fright-Club-Is-Talk-About-Medicare Ryan is going to get plenty of stink on him. If this group is roughly a tie, the post-election blame could go either way. If this group trends back to the GOP on election day, then SS Mittanic will take all the blame.

  27. 27
    muddy says:

    Sweetest would be if Ryan lost his House seat as well. I’m sure a double simultaneous loss would not prevent him from appearing on Dancin’ Dave’s sad show, however.

  28. 28
    muddy says:

    Sweetest would be if Ryan lost his House seat as well. I’m sure a double simultaneous loss would not prevent him from appearing on Dancin’ Dave’s sad show, however.

  29. 29
    dmbeaster says:

    Regarding TPM, I tend to think a lot of that type of crap results from having a large staff writing a lot of the stuff. The sharpness of the writing on the site has dropped over time as a result, and I doubt Marchall gives it the same degree of editorial oversight that he might have in the past.

  30. 30
    Anoniminous says:

    @Tom Q:

    I’m all for scary headlines if it causes the IGMFY crowd to panic their Social Security and Health Care are in danger and vote Dem in the Congressional races.

  31. 31
    Ben Cisco says:

    @👽 Martin:

    Of course Ryan will emerge as mortal, because he only got his superpowers when Obama handed them to him, and after the election, Obama will take them away again.

    The One Giveth, The Count Taketh Away.

  32. 32
    Cassidy says:

    Nope. Ryan will buy a tire swing, cater what passes for BBQ in Ohio and since he’s “serious” the press will forgive and forget and he’ll be the strongest candidate heading into 2016. They will rebuild the “both sides do it” meme and serious people will fall for some sort of austerity to preserve what we have bullshit that doesn’t even fill 16 pages. Gingrich and Santorum will belly up behind him. The only thing that will tear Ryan down in 2016 is if Christie gets really pissed and wants it bad enough.

  33. 33
    eric says:

    @ThatLeftTurnInABQ: the stink will be on Romney and his moderate advisors for distancing themselves from the real GOP. Plus, Ryan will do the Palin and say that Romney silenced him from vigorously defending the precious chastity of GOP economic ideals.

  34. 34
    rlrr says:

    Re Obama:

    “His power lies apparently in his ability to choose incompetent enemies.”
    — Crow T. Robot

  35. 35
    RareSanity says:

    I agree that outright assumption that Ryan is some economic genius, because that’s what everybody says, has been lessened.

    The reason why it really won’t matter is, where else is the GOP gonna go for 2016? They’ve got nothing…it’s not like this will be some kind of watershed moment for teh crazy. They’re going to spend the next four years, much like they spent the last four years, doing nothing, and blaming the Dems for trying to do something.

    When 2016 comes around, they’re going to roll out Ryan, Christie (heh…literally, roll him out), and a bunch of others that will have no chance of winning the nomination.

    They’ll lose the general again, and from there, you’re guess is a good as mine what they’ll do.

    The more libruls hate a candidate, only makes that candidate more attractive to the base. Until they address teh crazy, this cycle will repeat over and over.

  36. 36
    askew says:

    @Calouste:

    Perhaps not the best headline for TPM to put up the day they announce their new subscription $$$$ plan. I only go there because I like their livewire summaries of today’s political stories. I then go elsewhere to get analysis on the stories.

  37. 37

    John McCain still makes frequent and regular appearances on the Sunday morning shows. Wasn’t he done? Finished?

  38. 38
    RareSanity says:

    @Napoleon:

    That’s a very astute observation.

  39. 39
    The Dangerman says:

    I think it depends – if Ryan goes 0 for 2 (loses his House race, too), he’s done. If he is still in the House, he will be rehabilitated. Who else is on the bench? Jeb? Please. Christie? Maybe, but his act will wear thin (the only thing about him to do so). Huntsman? Yeah, right. The troglodytes will go hard to the Right after Romney (couldn’t happen to a nicer Party). 2016 will be Ryan, The Sequel.

  40. 40

    @eric:

    Plus, Ryan will do the Palin and say that Romney silenced him from vigorously defending the precious chastity of GOP economic ideals.

    And with some justice. Romney picked Ryan, but has backed away from the Ryan budget- and tried to force Ryan to back away from it, too- ever since. Ryan can make a pretty good case that Mitt failed to run on the Republican budget. That ignores that he would have done even worse if he had backed it as hard as he could, but it’s a good case to make if you’re Paul Ryan.

  41. 41
    Sargeant Pepper's Spray says:

    Art Laffer, Alan Greenspan, and Liz Cheney may be ‘serious people’, but the one thing they all have in common is they are never going to be successful politicians. Selling their wares to the Washington Post’s Fred Hiatt and the University of Chicago’s Economics Department isn’t the same thing as selling it to grandma in Florida. Ryan may feast for a thousand years inside the Beltway’s Wingnut welfare gravy train, but his best political days are behind him.

  42. 42
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    Paul Ryan is a serious wonk because he is a serious wonkwank(er).

    A minor suggested correction.

    Look, the reality based already know that Ryan is a bullshitting asstard. The thing is, will this meme percolate through the thick skulls of the ready-at-this-very-moment-for-tumbrels vermin of the village, like the festering gobshite that is Dancin’ Dave, for example?

    I rather doubt it, myself. Rmoney will take all the stink, because, as we can predict with the unerring certainty of tomorrow’s sunrise, he’ll be called “not ‘conservative’ enough” by the usual Partei apparatchiks.

  43. 43
    rlrr says:

    @The Ancient Randonneur:

    He was regular since long before he ran for President, also many of the talk show hosts wishes he were President…

  44. 44
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    O/T but Barry Commoner has died at age 95. One of the giants and pioneers of the environmental/ecology movement. RIP.

  45. 45
    ThatLeftTurnInABQ says:

    @eric:

    I think the GOP going belly-up amongst older demographics that they’ve owned for a long time is going to be too big a story for the media to paper it over.

    The other angle is that the media will be falling all over themselves to come up with reasons why Obama’s victory “doesn’t count”, i.e. is an exception to the usual political norms and thus does not provide a mandate for Democratic policies, people weren’t really voting for Democrats, Generic Republican would have done way better, this election was special and won’t be repeated again, etc. etc. We will hear a lot about how Romney was a terrible candidate but that story will get boring after a while (especially since they’ve already be writing it for a month now) and they’ll have to dredge up something else, which is that Ryan scared off the old people.

  46. 46
    piratedan says:

    @rlrr: well I know that I could definitely support a Crow/Servo 2016 ticket no questions asked.

  47. 47
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Cassidy: Ryan isn’t from Ohio. Unfortunately, he is from Wisconsin. He will serve brats.

    That being said, I think it comes down to how badly R/R lose. If the GOP can shovel everything off on Mitt not being a real Con, they will. If it is an epic disaster, Ryan goes down with the ship as well.

  48. 48
    Anoniminous says:

    @Roger Moore:

    And what was his national Name Recognition? Not much:

    It all comes down, of course, to name recognition and voter reaction to how the media is reporting the announcement. Although Ryan, as House budget chairman, is well known in Washington DC he does not have a national presence.

    Beware of assumptions based on personal experience. US political knowledge is abysmal.

  49. 49
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @RareSanity:

    where else is the GOP gonna go for 2016?

    I’m predicting Scott Walker.

  50. 50
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Sargeant Pepper’s Spray: Dick Jr has dropped her married name and moved back to Wyoming, which is a small and red enough state for her to take a Senate seat, which I absolutely think will happen. I don’t think Wisconsin is red enough, even now, to give Ryan a promotion. And Chris Christie is the new Very Serious Entitlement Reformer. I think Ryan is the GOP’s Evan Bayh, if he can’t have the big chair, he’ll take his big blue eyes and go home to AEI and the $peaking tour circuit.

  51. 51
    Zifnab25 says:

    @The Ancient Randonneur: McCain’s a top tier veteran Senator who throws a mean BBQ. Paul Ryan was a rising star that burned a little to bright for its own good. Ryan will likely just cash out like the Palins did by becoming a reality show conservative icon and do the speaker circuit at high dollar ultra-conservative TED talks.

    These guys don’t really want the hard work of high office. They want the limelight and the rich life and a bunch of people telling them how smart they are. Ryan will be far more comfortable earning six figures a year at Atlas Shrugged recitations than he would have been in the Veep slot anyway.

  52. 52
    Cacti says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    So you guys think that Romney will have to carry all the loser stink?

    Not a chance.

    Ryan will be around as a Congressman for the foreseeable future, and may even win higher office in Wisconsin. But his Presidential ambitions die with the failed Romney campaign.

    His 2016 rivals will tie Mitt around his neck like an anchor.

  53. 53
    rlrr says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    I’d say a relative nobody like Obama was in 2004 for the Democrats, unfortunately the GOP’s up and comers are from the tea-bag wing of the party…

  54. 54
    chopper says:

    @Napoleon:

    i’m of both minds here. personally tho, i think mitt/ryan losing will hurt ryan the same way palin’s image was tarnished after 2008. yeah, the true believers still rallied behind her, but it was never the same. a measurable chunk of the 27% shrug their shoulders upon mention of her name. she’s associated with an epic loss, and so will ryan be.

    he’ll still try to rally and run in 2016 but he’ll be damaged goods to a decent degree.

    this is a great ancillary effect of mitt’s horrible run for the presidency. obama gets to keep the WH, hand the GOP a humiliating loss in an election that should have been far easier for them, and also as a bonus gets to kneecap the conservative movement’s bright rising star. it’s a three-fer.

  55. 55
    eric says:

    @ThatLeftTurnInABQ: as a counter weight, allow me to say that without ryan, what is the list of perceived serious GOP house members? the GOP needs him and the media needs him to speak for the GOP cause the FSM is not kind enough to give me Issa-Gohmert speaking for the HOuse ;)

  56. 56
    eric says:

    @ThatLeftTurnInABQ: as a counter weight, allow me to say that without ryan, what is the list of perceived serious GOP house members? the GOP needs him and the media needs him to speak for the GOP cause the FSM is not kind enough to give me Issa-Gohmert speaking for the HOuse ;)

  57. 57
    trollhattan says:

    I take Ryan’s little non-answer answer to Wallace as a tell. He reminds me of a daytime teevee magician or mystic. If anybody recalls “The Amazing Kreskin”, he’d set up an elaborate audience trick then rush through and shortcut his process because, “We’re running short of time” just before divining the correct answer.

    Bugged the crap out of me when I was eight, because I wanted to believe ESP was frealz (“you will now willingly share your candy with me.”) Ryan seems to be cut from the same Kreskin cloth, only he’s in congress rather than on Merv Griffin. To all our horror.

  58. 58
    The Moar You Know says:

    So you guys think that Romney will have to carry all the loser stink?

    @Omnes Omnibus: Ask President Gore about how much help Clinton’s Whitesnake Of Freedom (TM) helped his subsequential presidential career.

    Romney will not life this burden by himself. Nonetheless, Granny Starver ain’t done.

  59. 59
    Another Halocene Human says:

    @David Fud: Manichaean is one of those It’s Always Projection things. Talk about a black/white view of the world… emoprogs have to deny the humanity of Christ, metaphorically speaking. They think that they really can find a rainbowfarting, unicorn-riding Savior not of woman born, okay? Which makes them the Manichaeans.

  60. 60
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @FlipYrWhig: A Marquette drop-out?

  61. 61
    The Dangerman says:

    @Cacti:

    His 2016 rivals will tie Mitt around his neck like an anchor.

    I dunno; going back only one cycle, I think if Failin’ Palin had run in 2012, she would have been one of the last out (if not the candidate). Romney would have unloaded hell on her, but it would have been interesting.

  62. 62
    rlrr says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Wasn’t he asked to leave?

  63. 63
    RareSanity says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    I’m predicting Scott Walker.

    It’s possible, but his resume is about the same as Christie’s. It consists of, “Hey! Look! I was a Governor!”.

    But Christie won’t have to answer questions about union busting.

  64. 64
    sherparick says:

    @piratedan: You beat me to it. Ralph freaking Reed, from grifter central headquarters, a smoother talking, more well mannered “Lonseome Rhoades.”

  65. 65
    eric says:

    @RareSanity: too soon to tell whether the GOP will still be bagging teas as faithfully as now….if so, then it has to be a firebreather…if not, then the governors have a shot.

    I see Jefferson Davis VIII

  66. 66
    Cacti says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    Ask President Gore about how much help Clinton’s Whitesnake Of Freedom™ helped his subsequential presidential career

    Que?

    Clinton left office very popular and would have easily won again had he not been termed out.

    If anything, Gore harmed himself by running away from Clinton.

  67. 67
    lamh35 says:

    Way OT, but So I posted last time about a conservative friend of mine who was mouthing off about the ACA and I posted my response to her. Well this time I’ma tell ya’ll about a another friend of mine. We went to high school together. I can’t say that we even ran in the same clique in high school, but my graduating high school class was only 333 students and since it was a magnet school and at the time you had to test into the school, the majority of the class were always the same from 9th -12th grams.

    Just a little background, I went to an predominantly (i.e. all) Black magnet school in NOLA, so the person I am talking about is a black male 35-36 years old. So anyway, around the same time I got on FB (2008/2009), I began to frequent the poli sci blogs like this one. I rarely if ever posted anything political to my FB, but since the 2010 midterms, I began to post more political stuff, i.e. pics, blog posts, articles, and whatever piqued my interest. So today I posted the pic of President Obama giving the kid a high-five and the kids cute reaction to it, and this is what my friend wrote:

    Friend: “he left dad hanging,lol,its all about the kids in so many words. You are the one person in my friends list that find and post things that make me like Obama more,because Im fixated on my views and I dont really like no president like that no matter who because the whole party division is one big joke,democratic government/democratic president,its should be a no-brainer.But when I see pics like this and see the human side of Obama Im stopped in my tracks and I always have to admire it.I dont think no president can totally be human because of the job but Obama is damn sure the closest thing we ever had to it….”
    Lamh35 -I love lil man’s fist pump As for POTUS, I hear how you feel, and I actually know a friend or family member who seem to feel the same way, but I’ve become a poli sci nut, so I live and breath this stuff. I literally read and digest so much poli sic info that I find of interest and that I think people I know and love should be aware of and I like to share with friends an fam so that even if they do believe that all politicians are the same, being informed and aware of what’s going on in politics is still very important
    Friend: “you do the best job at it to if I didnt have u in my friends list I dont think I would get it…”
    Lamh35: “no prob…expect more to come…lol. You’ll never be able to say your uninformed…Lol”

  68. 68
    rlrr says:

    @rlrr:

    Kenneth Parcell Piyush Jindal Bobby Jindal

  69. 69
    chopper says:

    @Anoniminous:

    ryan wasn’t a nobody. at least among the GOP he was pretty well known before he was picked. the ryan budget was popular and notorious among goopers for a while before he became the veep nod.

  70. 70
    👽 Martin says:

    @eric:

    what is the list of perceived serious GOP house members?

    To who?

    Anyone serious to the base is going to look like a fucking clown to the rest of the world, and anyone serious to the villagers is going to look like a Democrat to the base. Ryan was the guy that temporarily could occupy both space – because nobody knew shit about him.

    Calling him a wonk is absurd, even on the surface. Remember the GOP budget that Boehner heralded – the one that had no numbers in it? That was Ryan’s first effort. Wonkish indeed.

  71. 71
    ThatLeftTurnInABQ says:

    @eric:

    the GOP needs him and the media needs him to speak for the GOP

    __
    If the GOP loses the 65-plus demographic, which is the scenario I’m postulating such that Ryan gets stuck with a bad case of the loser-stink, then there’s no way the GOP can hold the House. They have to hold their traditional advantage with old people in order to hang onto the House. If they don’t it means say hello to Speaker Pelosi again, and if we are that lucky then the House GOPers will be crowded out by their counterparts in the Senate. The House GOPers won’t get any media face time because GOP Senators and Governors will hog it all.

  72. 72
    Cacti says:

    @RareSanity:

    But Christie won’t have to answer questions about union busting.

    But Walker doesn’t weigh 400 lbs.

    I’m not being sarcastic either. Fat is a death sentence for national politicians in the television age. Bald is a close second.

  73. 73
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @RareSanity: Yeah, but if the objective is winning the Republican nomination, union-busting is a huge positive. I feel like Walker gets to say he’s the guy who liberals love to hate, and he beats ’em anyway. Plus, Koch money backs him up. He’s a stone-cold idiot, but that doesn’t seem to be much of a deterrent to Republican ambitions.

  74. 74
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @rlrr: My understanding is that he was at MU for four years but had sophomore standing when he left. Beyond that, I don’t really know.

  75. 75
    Ash Can says:

    Since when is Ryan an “extremely skilled” bullshitter? When asked for the math on his budget, all he can say is “There isn’t enough time,” and “If I had tried to answer the question, people would have changed the channel.” “Lame excuses” and “bullshit” are not the same thing.

  76. 76
    Nylund says:

    Yes, he’ll lose his immediate political luster, but he can always jump on the Wingnut Welfare Gravy Train and be paid up the wazoo either as a lobbyist or a Think Tank hack for some Koch-funded enterprise.

    Either way, he’ll end up making millions, hand over fist.

    That, or maybe he can put his kids on Dancing with the Stars and star in a few reality TV shows.

  77. 77
    Suffern ACE says:

    @ThatLeftTurnInABQ: I think we will hear that any state that Obama won in 2008 but loses this time is the true bellwether state where the true americans live. So get used to hearing about Indiana. Mitch Daniels will get fluffed again as the leader of the true americans in the true state.

    Also, since I think Obama will win with a lower Electoral vote count and lower overall vote count, it will be declared that the election doesn’t mean anything. Because it doesn’t matter if you win if you don’t win like Richard Nixon or Ronald Reagan.

  78. 78
    eric says:

    @ThatLeftTurnInABQ: my point is that the all or nearly all voted for the same stink. the GOP bench is so thin that ryan is a necessary evil if the media wants to have “serious” people discuss issues. they will say that Romney did nto defend the House (Ryan) plan. they will be right but they will also lie about what was in it. Ryan goes nowhere. Romney owns the stink because the entire House bought into the Ryan medicare elimination act.

  79. 79
    Another Halocene Human says:

    Why I am not an emo-prog

    By Me

    The test of an emo-prog, firebagger, or Real Leftie(TM) is whether they would vote for Jesus for president, if Jesus were running.

    I would not. I don’t think He would make a good politician. Let’s open up the Good Book and take a look at his track record, shall we?

    Now His ministry made some pointed and memorable critiques of the current regime on all levels, from the bourgeois Philistines to the priestly Sanhedrin, to the Herodian puppet government–although He didn’t really do a lot of railing against the Roman governors, which is kind of odd. But after three years of activism He got himself executed as a political prisoner, and without freeing the Jews. So already MLK and Gandhi have managed to acquit themselves better. Then after Dying That We Might Live, the pagan emperor Hadrian sacked Jerusalem and carried off a million Jews to Rome as slaves. Uh… good going, Lord and Savior. Muhammed, Joseph Smith, even the Buddha can’t match that abysmal track record. Maybe Lenin and Trotsky. Would you vote for Lenin? I mean he says some good things, but look how that shit turned out.

    So no, I would not vote for Jill Stein Jesus.

    Actually, Hadrian was a pretty cool guy (unless you were Jewish). He ran a pretty liberal administration, emphasized reason over superstition, the empire prospered, and he was for same sex marriage. Trufax.

    Signed,

    “Manichaean” Monster

  80. 80
    jibeaux says:

    @RareSanity: but he will have to drop an amount of weight roughly equivalent to a Hollywood starlet.

  81. 81

    Wingers are still going full-on with the “unskewed polls” thing. WTF is that about, anyone? Is that to keep their voters from getting discouraged and not showing up to vote or something? I don’t get it.

  82. 82
    RareSanity says:

    @eric:

    There’s no way that the GOP can do anything but go farther into the tea bag. Forget about The Great Orange One…the tea-baggers run the House GOP, nothing gets done unless they say so. So unless the GOP can get a few of them defeated this election, then a large number more during the mid-terms in 2014, they are stuck on their current course.

    Hell, I think any and everybody in the GOP has about the same chance of winning the nomination. But after four more years or tea-bagging, whomever emerges from the poo-flinging primary, will be greeted as warmly as a bad case of acid reflux, by the rest of the country.

  83. 83
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    the question that throws the 2016 game for a loop is Hillary. I think if she wants it, she’d be a powerhouse, and Christie and Walker both strike me as young enough and smart enough to not to pick that battle. The 2016 GOP primary might well make the 2012 line up look like a group portrait of the Founding Fathers. Santoromentum, baby! Catch it.

  84. 84
    eric says:

    @👽 Martin: you and I are not in disagreement, but as compared to his GOP House compatriots he is a wonk. a very scary proposition indeed

  85. 85
    geg6 says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    And I hate pumpkin pie.

    All the more for me, says geg6, a Thanksgiving baby (born 11/24).

  86. 86
    Redshift says:

    @chopper:

    ryan wasn’t a nobody. at least among the GOP he was pretty well known before he was picked. the ryan budget was popular and notorious among goopers for a while before he became the veep nod.

    Yeah, but that was after Obama started treating him as a serious voice of the GOP. His earlier budget (the one that would privatize Social Security as well as Medicare) didn’t get a lot of enthusiasm from his cohorts.

  87. 87
    Violet says:

    Whether Ryan keeps his halo is going to depend on what happens to the Republicans. If they continue to go ever-wingnuttier, then yeah, he’ll be given a pass. This 2012 debacle won’t be his fault–it’s Romney’s fault.

    If the Republicans recognize they have to change or wither, then Ryan’s non-math will be given more scrutiny and someone with math that actually adds up will be promoted.

    I don’t see the second option happening in 2014, and probably not in 2016, so I think Ryan will continue to be fluffed. But since his math failed so spectacularly this time around, people will be checking his arithmetic next time. If it’s still adding up only with the aid of magic unicorn smiles then he’ll have a hard time breaking out of the wingnut pack.

  88. 88
    geg6 says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    And I hate pumpkin pie.

    All the more for me, says geg6, a Thanksgiving baby (born 11/24).

  89. 89
    Redshift says:

    @chopper:

    ryan wasn’t a nobody. at least among the GOP he was pretty well known before he was picked. the ryan budget was popular and notorious among goopers for a while before he became the veep nod.

    Yeah, but that was after Obama started treating him as a serious voice of the GOP. His earlier budget (the one that would privatize Social Security as well as Medicare) didn’t get a lot of enthusiasm from his cohorts.

  90. 90
    Violet says:

    Whether Ryan keeps his halo is going to depend on what happens to the Republicans. If they continue to go ever-wingnuttier, then yeah, he’ll be given a pass. This 2012 debacle won’t be his fault–it’s Romney’s fault.

    If the Republicans recognize they have to change or wither, then Ryan’s non-math will be given more scrutiny and someone with math that actually adds up will be promoted.

    I don’t see the second option happening in 2014, and probably not in 2016, so I think Ryan will continue to be fluffed. But since his math failed so spectacularly this time around, people will be checking his arithmetic next time. If it’s still adding up only with the aid of magic unicorn smiles then he’ll have a hard time breaking out of the wingnut pack.

  91. 91
  92. 92
  93. 93
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Suffern ACE:

    think we will hear that any state that Obama won in 2008 but loses this time is the true bellwether state where the true americans live.

    Cracks me up when they try to paint Romney’s strenght (tied) in No Carolina as bad news for Obama. Obama was the first Dem to win NC since Carter, in VA it was LBJ, but now those are “must wins” for Obama.

  94. 94
    Culture of Truth says:

    I think this foray will help him long-term. He’s young enough to live down the defeat, which will not be his fault, but wingers will remember he fought the good fight without embarrassing himself. Indeed, it will be in their interests to promote the idea that it was the liberal Mitt Romney who spelled defeat, not conservative wonk Paul Ryan. So he may emerge a hero to them. To the media, less impressive perhaps, but now he is nationally famous. More importantly, he may learn some valuable campaign lessons from all this, should he wish to make a run himself some day.

  95. 95
    burnspbesq says:

    The notion that Ryan’s standing among Republicans may be damaged by being found out as a fraud and a charlatan implicitly assumes two things: (1) that being a fraud and a charlatan is A Bad Thing and (2) that being called out as a Fraud and a Charlatan by a Nobel-prize-winning economist is A Bad Thing.

    In Republican World, neither of those propositions is true.

  96. 96
    burnspbesq says:

    The notion that Ryan’s standing among Republicans may be damaged by being found out as a fraud and a charlatan implicitly assumes two things: (1) that being a fraud and a charlatan is A Bad Thing and (2) that being called out as a Fraud and a Charlatan by a Nobel-prize-winning economist is A Bad Thing.

    In Republican World, neither of those propositions is true.

  97. 97
    👽 Martin says:

    @Suffern ACE: Don’t write off Indiana too quickly. They aren’t polling much there, and the race was down to about 6 points last month from multiple pollsters until a single local poller came up with a 15 point lead for Romney. That last poll may or may not be an outlier, but Indiana isn’t showing the kind of trend that Ohio and Iowa are, and that’s odd. If sentiments in Indiana match Ohio, then that race should be relatively close – maybe within 3 points or so. I’d like to see some of the larger polling firms drop a poll there. Odd that PPP hasn’t been in there at all the last month.

  98. 98
    MikeJ says:

    @jibeaux:

    but he will have to drop an amount of weight roughly equivalent to a Hollywood starlet.

    I will repeat: the smart play for Christie is to bring in Huckebee, drop a bunch of weight and tell everyone how much he hates abortion.

    If McKenna pulls out a win you’ll see the villagers slobbering over a sensible centrist Republican who can win votes from Seattle hippies. Not that he is or will be sensible or centrist, but that’s what they’ll say.

  99. 99
    burnspbesq says:

    The notion that Ryan’s standing among Republicans may be damaged by being found out as a fraud and a charlatan implicitly assumes two things: (1) that being a fraud and a charlatan is A Bad Thing and (2) that being called out as a Fraud and a Charlatan by a Nobel-prize-winning economist is A Bad Thing.

    In Republican World, neither of those propositions is true.

  100. 100
    MikeJ says:

    @jibeaux:

    but he will have to drop an amount of weight roughly equivalent to a Hollywood starlet.

    I will repeat: the smart play for Christie is to bring in Huckebee, drop a bunch of weight and tell everyone how much he hates abortion.

    If McKenna pulls out a win you’ll see the villagers slobbering over a sensible centrist Republican who can win votes from Seattle hippies. Not that he is or will be sensible or centrist, but that’s what they’ll say.

  101. 101
    Another Halocene Human says:

    @trollhattan: Wow, that’s lame.

    The first time I ever heard of Kreskin was in “I Am Not Spock”, when not-yet-famous Leonard Nimoy was recognized by a pair of little boys as Kreskin and obligingly provided an autograph.

    James Randi has also mentioned him a few times, not really in a very positive way… but he’s no Uri Gellar.

  102. 102
    Another Halocene Human says:

    @trollhattan: Wow, that’s lame.

    The first time I ever heard of Kreskin was in “I Am Not Spock”, when not-yet-famous Leonard Nimoy was recognized by a pair of little boys as Kreskin and obligingly provided an autograph.

    James Randi has also mentioned him a few times, not really in a very positive way… but he’s no Uri Gellar.

  103. 103
    Political Observer says:

    More bad news for Obama–NEW CNN POLL: RACE ALL TIED UP HEADING INTO DEBATES, TOO CLOSE TO CALL

    http://politicalticker.blogs.c.....?hpt=hp_t1

    Yet another poll within the margin of error. The race is tightening fast…

  104. 104
    Political Observer says:

    Democrats danced in the End Zone WAY too early it looks like..race tightening…three national polls withing margin of error, Obama lead slipping in Ohio and Virginia…Romney turnsaround his campaign, wins or tied the last five news cycles according to Halperin and the Gang of 500.

  105. 105
    burnspbesq says:

    @Political Observer:

    The only thing “tightening fast” is your sphincter, because your guy is toast and you know it. This election has become a referendum on the social safety net, and your guy is on the wrong side of that issue.

  106. 106
    HgMn says:

    Yeah he is damaged goods ! — the marathon lie won’t go away – it was totally unnecessary — “hey I managed to do I marathon – one of my personal goals — how anybody does it in less than three hours –
    I just don’t know”
    would have endeared him to just about everybody – lying about it tells
    us a lot – (1) he is too stupid to know somebody would check
    (2) he is insecure

    Sometime soon I hope they put him on alongside Paul Krugman
    so that Paul can help him out with the math so he could explain
    his budget plans to the audience

  107. 107
    RareSanity says:

    @Southern Beale:

    I think (and someone can correct me if I’m wrong) that they’re pushing the skewed poll meme because, if the base perceives an inevitable Romney ass-kickin’, they may just stay at home on election day. If that happens, it will hurt down ticket races for the House, Senate, and state legislatures.

    If they can fool the base into thinking that the race is still close, then they may still actually show up and vote the whole ticket.

  108. 108
    rlrr says:

    @Political Slobserver:

    Just like last week and the week before, etc…

  109. 109
    trollhattan says:

    @Political Observer:

    Taco, Taco,Taco,Taco,Taco,Taco,Taco,Taco,Taco,Taco,Taco,Taco,Taco,Taco,Taco,Taco,Taco,Taco,Taco,Taco,Taco,Taco,Taco,Taco,Taco,Taco,Taco,Taco,Taco,Taco,Taco,Taco,Taco,Taco,Taco,Taco,Taco!

    Do I get a nickel for each, also, too?

  110. 110
    ThatLeftTurnInABQ says:

    Do not tip the poll dancer.

  111. 111
    gwangung says:

    I don’t see the second option happening in 2014, and probably not in 2016, so I think Ryan will continue to be fluffed. But since his math failed so spectacularly this time around, people will be checking his arithmetic next time. If it’s still adding up only with the aid of magic unicorn smiles then he’ll have a hard time breaking out of the wingnut pack.

    Seriously, do you think he’s going to pick up math at this stage of his life?

    In all honesty, it’s irrelevant. If he sinks without a trace, good. If he gets back up for 2016, he’ll probably bring the same crap and gum up the works for someone who’s slightly more serious. If he makes ANY headway, he’s gonna get sunk by his “budget.”

  112. 112
    chopper says:

    @Redshift:

    it wasn’t called the ryan budget for nuthin’.

    look, veep picks tend to be somewhat backbenchers by definition. they usually aint power players. nobody wants to be outshined by their veep pick. look at all the dudes on the VP ticket in the last 30 some-odd years, you’ll find only a few had real name recognition with the common douche.

    among the party tho, ryan had a name before mittens picked him. he was a rising star in the GOP.

  113. 113
    James E. Powell says:

    @Zifnab25:

    McCain has lived and continues to live off his stretch as a POW and as one of a few who somehow got themselves associated with the Village-approved topic of campaign finance reform. He’s got nothing else, but he doesn’t have any competition on those two issues. And during the Bush/Cheney Junta years, he was the one Republican who could put himself forward as not part of that group.

  114. 114
    Political Observer says:

    The polls are thightening THREE national polls now show Obama’s lead slipping. Is the Clinton Bounce over?

    Not good for the incumbent…this may be just like 1980 with a break for the challenger at the last minute!

  115. 115
    chopper says:

    @Political Observer:

    yes, ‘more bad news for obama’. because if there’s anything that has truly defined this race between obama and mittens, it’s that the news has consistently been bad for obama. mittens may accidentally shove his head up his own ass every single day, but seriously folks, it really is bad news for the other guy.

  116. 116
    RareSanity says:

    @ThatLeftTurnInABQ:

    The trolls around here were so much better back in 2008.

    We’re gonna need DougJ to assume one of his troll alter egos again, and show these amateurs how it’s done.

  117. 117
    👽 Martin says:

    Even the liberal Washington Post editorial board thinks Ryan is completely full of shit.

    Decent rundown of it, actually. Makes me think Ezra wrote the whole thing and signed everyone’s name.

  118. 118
    dogwood says:

    @👽 Martin:

    Don’t write off Indiana too quickly.

    This is magical thinking. Obama won Indiana by a few thousand votes in 08 because he had invested in the infrastructure for GOTV in the primaries. In the general election those structures were left in place and it produced a narrow victory. Obama had something like 43 field offices in Indiana and McCain had none. Spending money in Indiana this cycle would have been very foolish. Much the same sitiuation occurred in North Carolina, but OFA has decided to compete there this time which is probably a good thing. North Carolina is a changing state. Indiana is not. You have to pick your battles in politics.

  119. 119
    Hungry Joe says:

    @rlrr:

    well I know that I could definitely support a Crow/Servo 2016 ticket no questions asked.

    I’d lean Crow/Servo, but the Meadow Party’s Bill the Cat/Opus combo (“Two for America”) would be damned appealing, too.

  120. 120
    flukebucket says:

    @Political Observer: There is a RAZOR THIN MARGIN!

    Until tomorrow. And then Obama will have it in the bag. Until the next day and then there will be a RAZOR THIN MARGIN!

  121. 121
    Kathy in St. Louis says:

    Perhaps you are right and he will emerge as still the brightest kid on the block. But, really, how would anyone know that? He doesn’t seem to be willing or able to share any information.

    I think his real popularity among GOPers is due to the lack of talent they have. It’s sort of like rising in the Catholic Church….not much competition.

    He’s like a brighter Sarah Palin, who is almost one of the neat people and he’s on their team. I’ve got to say, I really don’t find him impressive at all. And that’s not because he’s a Republican. He just doesn’t seem to be the bright boy they’ve advertised.

  122. 122
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Political Observer:

    Disco Stu Political Observer: Did you know that disco record sales were up 400% for the year ending 1976? If these trends continue… A-y-y-y!

  123. 123
    👽 Martin says:

    You think any of us should bother noting that the president isn’t elected by national vote? Or recalling that Al Gore won the popular vote by half a point?

  124. 124
    Culture of Truth says:

    Paul Ryan wants to cut Medicare. The Village wants to cut Medicare. You do the math.

  125. 125
    MikeJ says:

    @FlipYrWhig: Yeah, that’s right, Barney. This year, I invested in pumpkins. They’ve been going up the whole month of October and I got a feeling they’re going to peak right around January. Then, bang! That’s when I’ll cash in.

  126. 126
    ThatLeftTurnInABQ says:

    @RareSanity:

    The trolls around here were so much better back in 2008.

    __
    The smart trolls are holding out, waiting for 2016.
    /The Conventional Wisdom

  127. 127
    Political Observer says:

    Polls tightening in Virginia too–Obama up only by two after being up by as many as nine.

    Democrats should be getting very nervous…remember 1980!

    And this doesn’t take into account the new voter ID laws, the long and complicated ballots in Florida (that will require at least a 12th grade level of literacy, something a good portion of Obama’s base doesn’t have) and True the Vote.

  128. 128
    Quincy says:

    I’m not sure we want Ryan to go away. If he runs in the 2016 primaries Christie, Jeb, Rubio and whoever else is up there will have to answer questions about the Ryan plan. If they diss it, they can’t get the nomination but if they sign on they have to wear it in the general. The worst thing that can happen is that the party learns from the pending disaster this November that voters won’t go for the “medicare reform” scam and then Ryan gets the muzzle and they do a better job of hiding their agenda next time around.

  129. 129
    👽 Martin says:

    @dogwood: I’m not necessarily saying that Indiana will go for Obama. Rather that I don’t think anyone will look at a razor thin victory turning into a few point loss as a bellweather of jack shit. If Obama did indeed lose Indiana by double digits as the last poll suggests, that would be worth looking into and drawing conclusions from. I just don’t think that’s going to happen. I think Indiana remains closer to a battleground state than not.

  130. 130
    rlrr says:

    @Political Slobserver:

    Who started playing the broken record?

  131. 131
    Culture of Truth says:

    Frank Bruni wants sacrifice. David Gregory wants sacrifice. Tom Brokaw wants sacrifice. When sacrifice is sold to America it will have sparkling blue eyes and a P90X body.

  132. 132
    Higgs Boson's Mate says:

    Ryan will treated by the GOP as a wounded warrior who tried his best to pull Romney across the finish line. Romney will take the full brunt of the blame because Ryan is the centerfold for all of the conservative’s crazy ass ideas and he therefore cannot have been in any way responsible. The only threat to his run in ’16 would come from someone to the right of him who also has nice tits.

  133. 133
    Redshift says:

    @Cacti:

    Ryan will be around as a Congressman for the foreseeable future, and may even win higher office in Wisconsin. But his Presidential ambitions die with the failed Romney campaign.

    I agree. The GOP “next in line” system means the runner-up in the primaries, not the VP loser who didn’t compete in the primaries.

    I suppose that if he became a better campaigner, he might be able to shake off the Stench enough to run on his own in the 2016 primaries, and do well enough to be “next in line” in 2020. But I think it’s more likely he’ll take the route that’s far less work and retreat to being a congressman that Villagers fawn over.

  134. 134
    Yutsano says:

    @geg6: I knew I less than threed you. :)

  135. 135
    Ash Can says:

    @Political Observer: Now, listen. You have to promise to come back here Thursday morning — Wednesday night right after the debate would be even better — and talk about the debate. Is that a promise? No fingers crossed, no backsies, none of that. You have to show. Got it?

  136. 136
    Lurking Canadian says:

    @Violet:

    If the Republicans recognize they have to change or wither, then Ryan’s non-math will be given more scrutiny and someone with math that actually adds up will be promoted.

    Until somebody drives a stake through the black heart of Grover Norquist and buries his undead corpse at a crossroads, there is no possibility of Republican math that adds up.

  137. 137
    Political Observer says:

    @Ash Can:

    Sure. As Chris Christie said this debate will totally change the trajectory of the race.

  138. 138
    Cacti says:

    @Political Observer:

    Dance for us little monkey.

    Earn those nickels.

  139. 139
    Ash Can says:

    @Political Observer: That’s a good boy! ::pats head::

  140. 140
    mdblanche says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: How dare you, sir. I’ll have you know one of my best friends was the understudy in a high school production of Brigadoon. What did that sweet girl ever do to you that you’re comparing her stage presence to Paul Ryan’s?

  141. 141
    Political Observer says:

    Can’t anyone here tune into reality and realize this race is not the same as it was a week ago? Obambi’s bounce is GONE in the national polls. It’s the same as it was back before the conventions when this thing was as tight as a tick.

    Get ready for a long election night.

  142. 142
    hep kitty says:

    Sorry to be OT but, holy crap, I just found out Ross Perot is still living and is talking to the press. Thought he passed away years ago!

  143. 143
    rlrr says:

    @Political Slobserver:

    Get ready for a long election night.

    When they call OH and PA for Obama, it’ll be over.

  144. 144
    dogwood says:

    @👽 Martin:

    One of the main problems in Indiana has always been the fact that it has consistently been a low voter turnout state. Polls close earlier on election day than anywhere else, and they were pioneers in voter id laws. The excitement of the Democratic primary in 08 brought tens of thousands of new Democratic voters to the polls. For Obama to keep it within single digits, a good share of these first time voters will have to vote again. If past behavior is predictive of future behavior, I just don’t see that happening.

  145. 145
    Jay in Oregon says:

    Anyone ever notice how our bouncing baby troll never actually cites actual numbers or polls? Just “up by two!” or “Obama’s support is eroding!”

    He takes after his favorite Presidential ticket, who think they can repeat the same thing over and over and have it magically become true.

  146. 146
    The Moar You Know says:

    The only thing “tightening fast” is your sphincter, because your guy is toast and you know it.

    @burnspbesq: Fucking win.

    Has the added advantage of being true. The worst day of Romney’s life is coming, November 06, 2012, where he’s going to have to stand up in front of his family, friends, supporters…and church. And he’s going to have to admit that not only that he lost, and that he’s not the manifestation of the “White Horse Prophecy”, but that he lost to a black man.

    I dated a Mormon for several years. They hate two things above everything else: black people and failure. His loss will be humiliating in that community, he will be shunned, and it is going to ruin his standing in his church for the rest of his life.

  147. 147
    The Dangerman says:

    @rlrr:

    When they call OH and PA for Obama, it’ll be over.

    I’m thinking when Florida is called, it’ll be over.

    As for Ohio, I’ll assume that openly calling for the end of the auto industry was probably a bad idea on Romney’s part.

  148. 148
    👽 Martin says:

    @Quincy: Christy won’t run. The GOP will run right from a loss this year. They might change course after 2014, depending on how that goes, but Christy won’t work with the base unless he also runs right.

    If the GOP turns left, I’m not sure they’ll turn in Christy’s direction, which will be hard to differentiate from where Democrats are. If they turn left, they might get Rubio, but my guess is that 2016 is another fail parade from the GOP, with their best general election prospects getting chased off by an unwinnable primary. Ryan will be well positioned for 2016.

  149. 149
    JPL says:

    @Political Observer: Last week you told me that the race was close and that polls lie. Now you finally admit, that Obama was ahead last week. I’m so confused. Try to keep your stories straight.

  150. 150
    Cacti says:

    @Political Observer:

    Get ready for a long election night

    Yeah, if you live in the eastern time zone.

    The pacific coast states that will put Obama over 270 won’t close until midnight.

  151. 151
    Hill Dweller says:

    @Political Observer:

    Can’t anyone here tune into reality and realize this race is not the same as it was a week ago?

    Hold on a second. Last week you were citing daily polls as evidence of the race being tied. Now you’re saying the race has changed from last week, becoming tied.

    Were you lying last week?

  152. 152
    rlrr says:

    @Jay in Oregon:

    Even Rasmussen has Obama ahead, for crying out loud.

  153. 153
    rlrr says:

    @The Dangerman:

    FL will be icing on the cake, Obama could still win without it.

  154. 154
    Triassic Sands says:

    Paul Ryan is a serious wonk, because he’s the closest thing the Modern Republican Party (aka Greedy Old Plutocrats) has to a serious wonk. When your policies are all based on fantasy, make-believe and wishful thinking, it’s pretty hard to come up with a serious thinker to explain those policies. After all, one of the main jobs of a policy wonk is deliver all the facts available that support your positions. Since that takes a Republican wonk zero minutes and zero seconds, the rest of the wonk’s delivery is going to be filled with stalling, dissembling, misdirection, and outright lying, which seems like an accurate description of Ryan’s 2012 campaign performance.

  155. 155
    Chyron HR says:

    @Political Observer:

    You forgot the part about how your True the Vote thugs are going to lynch every black person who tries to vote for “Obambi”, thus ensuring a Romney “victory”.

    ETA: After all, as the humiliating failure of Herman Cain’s 2nd presidential run demonstrates, there’s nothing that drives Republicans crazy like a black man above ground.

  156. 156
    Cacti says:

    @Hill Dweller:

    Were you lying last week?

    Nah, it was just working from a different script.

    You can’t get mad at the monkey for doing a different dance when the organ grinder plays a new tune.

  157. 157
    The Dangerman says:

    @rlrr:

    FL will be icing on the cake, Obama could still win without it.

    True, but I don’t think Romney can win without it (especially given how Ohio is trending).

    Also, someone said above even Rasmussen has Obama ahead; at some point, Rasmussen takes his finger off the scale and his last polling up to the election is actually pretty good.

  158. 158
    rlrr says:

    @The Dangerman:

    Obama has far more paths to victory than Romney.

    One way to think of it, Obama only has to carry the states Kerry won, plus one more.

  159. 159
    Calouste says:

    @The Dangerman:

    VA is the bellwhether state IMO. If that gets called quickly for Obama, it’s all up.

  160. 160
    NonyNony says:

    @Cacti:

    Nah, it was just working from a different script.

    PO is kind of weird for a troll. Most trolls try to piss people off – PO is more like a clown who’s trying to make use laugh.

    I’d guess he’s getting the micropayments from Mechanical Turk to post “Trolls for Rmoney” and he’s just doing the minimum possible to skate by and collect his $1.25.

  161. 161
    Ash Can says:

    @Jay in Oregon: I still think “Political Observer” is just DougJ giving us the runaround, since his material strays so far over the top at times. Even so, I think it would be highly entertaining to have a DougJ marionette running around here after the debate telling us how awesome Mitt was and how he debated circles around Obama, when we can all see Mitt smooshed on the wall like a fly that’s just been whacked with a rolled-up newspaper.

  162. 162
    MikeJ says:

    @Calouste: If Obama wins Virginia it’s all over. If he loses it he still has 37 different ways to win.

  163. 163
    rlrr says:

    @The Dangerman:

    If Romney looses FL, he has to win all the battleground states.

  164. 164
    rlrr says:

    @Ash Can:

    Romney could shit himself (metaphorically or literally) during the debates, and there would still be trolls saying how awesome he was.

  165. 165
    22over7 says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    You really think his church will shun him? I know we use that word as a kind of snarky thing, but to be shut out of his culture would be a terrible thing.

  166. 166
    rlrr says:

    @rlrr:

    And Fox “News” pundits…

  167. 167
    rlrr says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    I’m thinking Romney won’t take defeat will…

  168. 168
    nellcote says:

    @Calouste:

    TPM’s descent to full Village-both-sides-do-it-content-free-win-the-minute status accelerates

    Four years ago TPM would have been all over the RNC registation fraud scheme. Now I don’t think they’ve even mentioned it on the front page.

    Coming after a couple of years of Politico-lite deceptive headlines, TPM really seems to have lost it’s way.

  169. 169
    Cacti says:

    @The Dangerman:

    True, but I don’t think Romney can win without it (especially given how Ohio is trending).

    If Rmoney lost Ohio and Florida, he has no path to 270.

    Even if he flipped VA, NC, NH, IN, IA, NV, and CO, he’d max out at about 243.

  170. 170
    Violet says:

    @rlrr: Romney could call Obama an “uppity Ni-CLANG” (using the actual word), tell women they should stick to having babies and cooking dinner for their menfolk, tell everyone that if they’re non-Mormon they’re going to hell, talk about the daughter he had with his mistress that he’d married off to bin Laden, and roast a baby on stage and the Fox News talking heads and wingnut pundits (sorry for redundancy) would still say he’d won the debate and had done a fantastic job of convincing the American people he’s the right man for the job.

  171. 171
    RareSanity says:

    @👽 Martin:

    If the GOP turns left

    LOLWUT?

    Now you’re just trollin’ us…

  172. 172
    Ash Can says:

    @rlrr:
    @Violet:

    I know. And the worse Romney does, and the more loudly they praise him, the funnier it’ll be.

    (Edited to fix grammar fail.)

  173. 173
    El Cid says:

    Newt Gingrich is a professorial, academic statesman-expert. This is true because he did a PhD about education in the Belgian Congo.

  174. 174
    Violet says:

    @nellcote: The only reason to visit TPM these days is for the LiveWire.

    Last week Marshall posted several times saying he was working on some big post about economic optimism and was going to post it that night. He mentioned it more than once. I checked back the night he said he was going to post it and I think the thing was three paragraphs long. If he even posted it. Underwhelming.

  175. 175
    The Moar You Know says:

    You really think his church will shun him? I know we use that word as a kind of snarky thing, but to be shut out of his culture would be a terrible thing.

    @22over7: Yes, I do. His relationship with his church won’t ever be the same. They won’t kick him out…but things will be different.

  176. 176
    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism says:

    @nellcote:

    Four years ago TPM would have been all over the RNC registation fraud scheme. Now I don’t think they’ve even mentioned it on the front page.

    I don’t go there nearly as often as I used to (and I’m still in Ugg withdrawal /sniff/), but I’m pretty sure I’ve seen it front paged several times.

    *checks*

    There’s a front paged article on Sproul there right now, and it links to an earlier muckraker article.

    That said, I’m not nearly as happy with them as I used to be.

  177. 177
    Spaghetti Lee says:

    Interesting fact: The VP candidate from a losing ticket has never been elected president.

    However…it seems to me they’ve been keeping Ryan under lock and key (wasn’t Ryan supposed to defeat the Obamamonster with his Math Skillz? Isn’t that why they picked him) so it makes me wonder if, in preparation for defeat, the GOP is telling Romney to keep Ryan safe from the loser-stink. Might not work, but I admire the strategic thinking.

  178. 178
    burnspbesq says:

    @Political Observer:

    Do check back with us on Thursday, after Obama mops the floor with your guy.

  179. 179
    Violet says:

    @Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: Like I said, the LiveWire is the reason to go. For gems like this one:

    Donald J. Trump
    __
    @realDonaldTrump
    __
    In debate, @MittRomney should ask Obama why autobiography states “born in Kenya, raised in Indonesia.”

  180. 180
    Legalize says:

    But, but, but, Tidal Wave of Corporate Cash!!

    Awwwww:

    The Romney campaign is experiencing what some officials believe could be the beginning of a mass exodus of big money donors diverting their cash away from the Republican presidential hopeful and toward Republican candidates for the House and Senate races more likely to win in November, the FOX Business Network has learned.

  181. 181
    chopper says:

    @Hill Dweller:

    but ooooh, ‘it’s gonna be a long night’!. so that’s where mittens’ guys are at. yeah, we’re gonna lose and we’re gonna lose big and the GOP is gonna flip their shit and split and all that shit, but fuck you libs it’s gonna be a loooong night!

    of course it’s gonna be a long night. i’m going to be partying til noon nov. 7th. i’m going to be hungover and proud of it for a fuckin’ week. and i’ll be telling every republican i see to eat my entire ass cause mittens and ryan are going to get clobbered.

  182. 182
    Ash Can says:

    @Spaghetti Lee: Or, they may have sat down and started talking with him and realized, oh crap, there’s no “there” there, a la Sarah Palin. Not that I think Ryan’s quite as dumb as Palin, but he ain’t all that, either.

  183. 183
    ThatLeftTurnInABQ says:

    @Spaghetti Lee:

    Interesting fact: The VP candidate from a losing ticket has never been elected president.

    FDR in 1920.

  184. 184
    Culture of Truth says:

    In debate, @MittRomney should ask Obama why autobiography states “born in Kenya, raised in Indonesia.”

    “I was reading your tax proposal, Governor Romney… my reaction was…I know some people think I was born in Kenya, but I hope they know I wasn’t born yesterday.”

  185. 185
    Spaghetti Lee says:

    @chopper:

    It is kind of funny. “We’re almost not losing, libs! You scared? Huh, you scared?”

  186. 186
    Mnemosyne says:

    @piratedan:

    Joel: “What do you want for Christmas, Crow?”

    Crow: “I want to decide who lives and who dies!”

    Joel: “Oh, I don’t know …”

  187. 187
    West of the Rockies (formerly Frank W.) says:

    A few people have been tossing around Jeb’s name as important in 2016… Will he really be relevant in four years? He was last gov in 2007. I don’t watch Faux News; is he a regular contributor there? What’s he doing to keep his name in the public eye? Sure, Bush-lash may have worn off by 2016, but is ol’ Jeb actually all that charismatic? (Okay, I know Romney is not charismatic either, but Jeb seems like a pretty bland fellow and not nearly far-right enough in the estimation of today’s GOP.)

    What am I missing?

  188. 188
    Ash Can says:

    @Legalize: In all seriousness, that’s exactly what I don’t like to see. I don’t want to have the legislature playing chicken with the nation’s credit rating for another two years (or more).

  189. 189
    Spaghetti Lee says:

    @ThatLeftTurnInABQ:

    Ah, my apologies.

  190. 190
    Cacti says:

    @Spaghetti Lee:

    It is kind of funny. “We’re almost not losing, libs! You scared? Huh, you scared?”

    Some polls have Romney creeping into respectable margin of defeat territory!

    VICTORY!

  191. 191
    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism says:

    @Violet: I used to be addicted to TPM Muckraker and to certain commenters (NCSteve, Ugg the Repug), but I’m far more likely to remember to refresh Fark than TPM these days.

  192. 192
    Spaghetti Lee says:

    @West of the Rockies (formerly Frank W.):

    I think the last name is it. I don’t really see what’s special about him beyond that.

    Maybe I’m just paranoid (I actually know that I’m paranoid), but I supported Obama over Clinton back in ’08 because I didn’t think we should have 4 consecutive presidents from 2 families. The media, of course, loves dynasties. I think Jeb would find some support from the Media simply because they’d know how to deal with him.

  193. 193
    Culture of Truth says:

    FDR in 1920.

    War criminals don’t count!

  194. 194
    Randy P says:

    @Another Halocene Human: What does Randi have against Kreskin? My recollection of his mentalist act was that he was very upfront about it being trickery. I remember him explaining how perfect shuffles and being able to memorize an entire deck of cards at a glance were behind some tricks, and that impressed the pants off me as a kid. A lot more than Geller and his bendy spoons.

    I seem to recall that Kreskin’s TV show actually had a challenge that reads a lot like Randi’s, something like $10K to anyone who could demonstrate actual ESP

  195. 195
    chopper says:

    @rlrr:

    well, not quite. kerry got what, 251 electoral votes? obama could pick up kerry’s states plus one of ohio or florida and hook it up.

    then again, obama’s also pretty far ahead in NM, NV, IA and CO. that all together, plus the kerry states, is 276 electoral votes. which means he wins. meaning mittens has to win the bush states, including OH VA NC and FL as well as one of the above 4 states obama already has in his pocket, none of which mittens is even fighting for.

    in short, mitt’s boned even if obama loses ohio, virginia and florida.

  196. 196
    R-Jud says:

    @Spaghetti Lee:

    Maybe I’m just paranoid (I actually know that I’m paranoid), but I supported Obama over Clinton back in ‘08 because I didn’t think we should have 4 consecutive presidents from 2 families.

    Yep. ’08 was the first Presidential election since 1992 in which no Bushes or Clintons were running.

  197. 197
    Jon says:

    Matthew Yglesias is a serious person because he is a serious person. So too with half the people who talk about politics.

  198. 198
    Jon says:

    @R-Jud: I think that’s the real reason Obama won the primary. Everything else was word salad. And also, mostly based on no position Obama ever actually took.

  199. 199
    JoyfulA says:

    @dogwood: I’m wondering about South Carolina polling, believe it or not. An acquaintance there who’s been throwing GOP fundraisers for a decade or two just announced he’s voting for Obama. Is he an anomaly or a trend?

  200. 200
    Culture of Truth says:

    Yep. ‘08 was the first Presidential election since 1992 1976 in which no Bushes or Clintons were running

    30 freaking years! (technically Hillary Clinton “ran” so this could be the first.)

  201. 201
    trollhattan says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    I dated a Mormon for several years. They hate two things above everything else: black people and failure. His loss will be humiliating in that community, he will be shunned, and it is going to ruin his standing in his church for the rest of his life.

    It’s going to really suck for Tadd, or Todd, or Tank, or Tagg or whatever, when he has to don the loser kid’s plaid jumper for daddy’s little talk to LoserVille.
    http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/d.....1-main.jpg

  202. 202
    Culture of Truth says:

    1992 had a Bush AND a Clinton. “Transit of Bushtons”

  203. 203
    trollhattan says:

    @Culture of Truth:
    Clinton dynasty worries me not much (Chelsea, lately?); any more Bushes and the whole thing would go into the shitter.

  204. 204
    Emma says:

    @Suffern ACE: I don’t think that will work this time. This President doesn’t tolerate BS from the Press. He’s not afraid of them. His team knows how to push back effectively.

  205. 205
    Randy P says:

    @Spaghetti Lee: Doesn’t Jeb actually speak spanish, as opposed to the media trying to paint those noises coming out of W’s mouth as “spanish”.

    So they’ll be telling us that he’s sewed up the hispanic vote.

  206. 206
    trollhattan says:

    @Randy P:
    IIRC daddy referred to Jeb’s! kids as “The brown ones.”

    Yup, Hispanic vote delivered on a tortilla.

  207. 207
    chopper says:

    shit, i even got that wrong. obama could win all the kerry states plus just three of the 4 western states he’s ahead in – NV, CO and NM. and still win by a hair.

    mittens has to win the states he’s ahead in, plus FL, VA, NC and OH (!), and also IA (!!). and even then he loses. he also has to take one of NV, CO or NM from obama and he isn’t even really running in any of those three states.

  208. 208
    West of the Rockies (formerly Frank W.) says:

    Trollhatten, those Rick Santorum family photos make me sad. Was that one you posted @ #201 taken during a concession speech? His kids look pretty messed up and emotional.

    As to your point, yes, Mitt will face serious, permanent failure for the first time in his life, I daresay. Poop sandwiches all around for the Romney clan!

  209. 209
    trollhattan says:

    @West of the Rockies (formerly Frank W.):
    Yep, taken in ’06 the night he lost his seat. I hate politicans using kids as props in general, and young ones should never have to publically share in “dad’s failure” like this, but it’s how “Rick rolls” if you will.

    He’s a vile shell of a human, so I’ll guess Willard will somehow top him.

  210. 210
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @West of the Rockies (formerly Frank W.): I really do try to avoid playing a psychiatrist on the internet, but Rick Santorum sets off my crazy-dar. I don’t know what the psychiatric/medical term is for really fucking creepy, but he’s got it. There’s no way that’s a healthy family.

  211. 211
    LD50 says:

    Funny how despite the last few weeks of PO’s trolling, the overall numbers here hardly change:

    http://electoral-vote.com/

    …well, that’s not entirely true, Romney’s losing Ohio worse than he was 2 weeks ago.

  212. 212
    RareSanity says:

    @R-Jud:

    Yep. ‘08 was the first Presidential election since 1992 in which no Bushes or Clintons were running.

    Shouldn’t that be, first Presidential election since 1988 in which no Bushes or Clintons were running?

    You’re forgetting Poppy. Hell, if you count him being VP, it’s 1980.

  213. 213
    kay says:

    @LD50:

    Romney’s Lucas County Victory Center is only open 4 hours a week. Lucas is Toledo. I’m jealous of their “hours” sign, though. It’s fancy. Sort of Olde English.

  214. 214
    Yutsano says:

    @LD50: Sigh. Do we have to have the outlier talk again??

  215. 215
    Tonal Crow says:

    The term “bullshit” cannot be used too frequently with the words “Romney” and “Ryan”, because bullshit is all Romney and Ryan have.


    Romney you can’t hide yer Ryan eyes!

  216. 216
    West of the Rockies (formerly Frank W.) says:

    I agree, Jim (Foolish Literalist) @ #215… Santorum seems really, really resentful and uptight. Can’t imagine it’s easy to be one of his kids….

Comments are closed.