Earlier today, I saw Gary Johnson on MSNBC, assuring a bewildered interviewer that if his name was mentioned as often as Obama or Romney were mentioned in the news, he would be the next President of the United States. That in and of itself is amusing, but what made it so sad was that he was talking to MSNBC over Skype.
And you thought the optics of the Romney campaign were tragic…
beltane
I am still of the opinion that Mitt Romney’s announcement that he has been practicing spontaneous “zingers” for the past three months is the most tragic thing ever.
Robin G.
There comes a point where second hand embarrassment overwhelms the schadenfreude and it just stops being fun.
Mind you, we’re not at that point yet. But I feel like it’s lurking on the horizon.
Will
What’s wrong with 3rd parties they often have good ideas and not just legalize pot or get back on the gold standard. FDR and his advisers were often influenced by Norman Thomas and The Socialist Party. Maybe then Obama wouldn’t help the Republicans gut Social Security and Medicare and what’s left of the New Deal & Great Society
All we have now is The Republican Party and Not-Quite The Republican Party.
Zattarra
@beltane:
Link please
dmsilev
@Zattarra: The Times has the story:
KG
I like Johnson, and I do think if he got more press he’d be doing well in the polls… Not enough to win outright, but I could see him swinging a couple of states from red to blue, maybe even winning one or two small states. And I’d love to see a functioning third (and fourth) party that could keep the major parties honest. I just don’t know how that happens in our system today
maya
@dmsilev: They’re equipping him with quips from the
BrighamHenny Youngman joke book.” Take my wife. Please!”
” Which one?”
Baud
@Will:
We actually have a Republican Party, a Democratic Party, and a bunch of dissatisfied whiners.
General Stuck
Johnson was an all out slacker governor, that about drove the legislature nuts, cause he wouldn’t sign very many bills. So they kept having special sessions, and Gary would say, ok, I’ll get back to you, but never did. This is basically a slacker state, so he was pretty popular. The land of “I’ll do it manana”
Maude
Does that mean if we mention Tinkerbell’s name enough, all we have to do is clap louder?
Chyron HR
A few samples from the Big Book of Romneyquips:
“Mr. Obama makes me reconsider the Church’s 1978 decree that blacks are human beings. Ha ha ha.”
“I have been accused of draft dodging, but did you know that my opponent did not serve in The Nams either?”
“Have you heard the one about the American citizens who were killed in Libya?” (This one always makes him smile.)
beltane
@Will: The Socialist Party, while not ever approaching major party status, had quite a bit more infrastructure and local grassroots support than any of our third-parties today, much of it centered on recent immigrants from Eastern and Southern Europe. In the early 1930’s my grandmother, now a very mainstream Democrat, was active in her college’s socialist student’s club, the membership of which was made up exclusively of the children of Jewish and Italian immigrants.
Decades of red-baiting have made it virtually impossible for any left-of-center 3rd-party to achieve any sort of widespread appeal whatsoever.
Moonbatting Average
@General Stuck: I didn’t know you were a Nuevo Mexicano, I miss northern NM so much! (in Dallas now, ugh) Mind if I ask where you are?
Amir Khalid
I wonder, why was NBC interviewing Gary Johnson in the first place? In a year when the Republican party wanted anyone but the widely disliked Romney to be the nominee, Johnson still wound up at the back of a field of the manifestly unqualified and the out-to-lunch. It’s hard to imagine him having anything of interest to say about the election now.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Don’t the Koch bros think of themselves as Libertarians? Not even the goofy one in Colorado is willing to give Johnson some money?
Isn’t Johnson’s version of libertarianism pretty much Romney/Ryan with legalized pot?
General Stuck
@Moonbatting Average:
Sure. I live in the SW corner in Grant country near Silver City. I love the North of NM as well, and have spent some time there. But it does get a little chilly for me. Warmer down here/
Nerull
@Will: And the “We’re not fucking the poor hard enough!” Libertarian party is the solution?
JustAnotherBob
@Will:
Ride that purity pony, boy. Give it the lash and you can make it to Purityland by sundown.
Maude
@Amir Khalid:
He doesn’t have to have anything interesting say to be on tv. The Sunday shows prove that.
Moonbatting Average
@General Stuck: That’s a great place to be, the Gila is awesome. Eat some green chile for a suffering ex-pat, ok?
blingee
Who do you think you are kidding Cole? You were the one masturbating over him every time Greewald mentioned his name. Or are you saying you disagree with Greenwald now too?
Chyron HR
@Will:
Obama should totally take a page from the progressive playbook of Franklin Delano “Firedog” Roosevelt. Maybe he could firebomb Kabul, or order all American citizens of Muslim ancestry to be put in concentration camps. Or he can just limit Social Security eligibility to white men only.
I’m sure you’d be happy with any of these options.
Cargo
I like the third parties (Libertarian, Constitution) who look at the Republicans and say “you know, these guys aren’t rightwing ENOUGH”
General Stuck
@Moonbatting Average:
Will do
A moocher
John, why does using skype make the sitch more pathetic?
Blingee, if I build you your very own fire, will you FGDII?
SFAW
I heard a semi-extended interview of Johnson a couple of weeks ago, on NPR’s “On Point.”
I like Ashbrook when he has political shows, but after listening to 15-20 minutes of Johnson, one thought that came to mind was “Tom, will you smack that glib asshole around for about 10 minutes?” Johnson didn’t make any serious points, just repeated stupid shit, and was a smart-ass to boot – frankly, I thought he was drunk (or maybe stoned, since he wasn’t slurring his speech).
I was an Obama supporter before I heard the show, and hadn’t really known much about Johnson. After that show, Johnson moved into the “No Fucking Way” column.
Sorry for the vent/rant, but the guy was just SUCH an asshole.
Chris
@Cargo:
To be fair, most Republicans think that already. Few are hardcore enough to go third party, though. (It’s so… anti-establishment. And it’s not at all a comfortable feeling being part of a minority).
Jade Jordan
Cole, Why is your college football team playing basketball in September?
SFAW
@Chris:
I don’t know, I think it’s because they understand that giving their vote to a third party as a “protest” (or whatever) helps their hated opponent (i.e. Dem) win.
Something about not laboring under the delusion that the two parties are exactly the same, etc.
AA+ Bonds
It would probably gain him 1996 Ross Perot levels of support
Simply put, there is nothing laughable about the amount of people who only gain popular support because of the media’s whims or perhaps you missed the entire Republican primary season
AA+ Bonds
Herman Cain’s speeches usually start with someone loading a YouTube about him
Spatula
@Baud:
You’re right Baud, none of us is worthy of the political efficiency and general awesomeness that the two party system in this very, very non democratic republic has done brung us.
I bow before it and your similar awesomeness in knowing it’s best to go along to get along and not complain about anything, lest attention be brought to the collapse going on around us.
Spatula
@JustAnotherBob:
Wow. So cool. Did you invent the PURITY PONY thing all by yourself, just now? That is so freaking original and great. Wow. hahaha..awesome
Roger Moore
So, is he just repeating the party talking points, or has he actually drunk the Kool-Aid? It’s the question I always want to ask when I hear somebody saying something this ridiculously stupid.
SFAW
Oh, look. Someone’s back to grace us with his awesome purity. I feel so much more impure, now.
Ten Ave marias and 10 Paternosters for me! Maybe then I will be worthy enough to think such vile thoughts as “How does he manage to see the screen/monitor with his head so far up his ass?”
Spatula
@SFAW:
I’ve been meaning to ask: Since I’ve been told repeatedly by the geniuses here that should I choose to NOT vote at all I am as much as casting a vote for Romney, does that mean if I actually DO vote for Romney I would be credited with two votes toward his election?
And if a non vote is a vote for Romney and I decide to vote for Obama, will that vote cancel out the Romney vote I would have made by not voting, and amount to my act being the equivalent of not voting at all…again?
Please help. I need the assistance of you democracy experts to unnerstand…
JustAnotherBob
@Spatula:
No, I just recycled a tired old line that we shouldn’t need any longer. But there are a few poor pitiful folks still lost in Unrealistic Woods.
SFAW
@Spatula:
FTFY
Chyron HR
@Spatula:
What you should really do is move down to Virginia so your vote against Obama will really COUNT for something.
Of course, the chances of you getting beaten to death for being a “fagit” will increase exponentially, but that’s okay. Those good ol’ boys would just be “standing their ground” against you, after all.
Spatula
@SFAW:
very weak. Grade: F
Tim in SF
What’s wrong with Skype? I make all my calls with Skype.
(suddenly I feel ashamed, but I don’t know why)
SFAW
@Spatula:
Oh, dear, an F? How shall I ever live with myself? I must prepare myself for seppuku.
You and Dennis Miller may be the two funniest guys on the planet. Or is it that you and Rick Perry are the two smartest? Either way, you’re super-dee-duper!
James E. Powell
How about this?
The structure of government provided in our federal constitution and nearly every state constitution, with a separately elected executive and bicameral legislatures, pretty much guarantees a two-party system. Third-parties have not been footnotes because they were all incompetent or because none of them had good ideas.
The only possible path to power for a third party would be the collapse of one of the top two, at which time the third party would become the second.
Spatula
@SFAW:
Again, really weak.
I was hoping you’d help with my question about the intricacies of vote-canceling vs. voting and all the quantum implications.
But clearly, you’re too stupid.
Narcissus
@Tim in SF: Like Gary Johnson, you don’t have a campaign apparatus.
different-church-lady
It is worst song, played on ugliest guitar.
different-church-lady
BATLIGHT!
SFAW
@Spatula:
No you weren’t. You were just trying (successfully) to be an asshole.
Keep telling yourself that, it fits with all the other bullshit you spew here.
“weak” riposte from you in … 3 … 2 … 1 …
different-church-lady
@Spatula: this would all be much easier if you simply let your voter registration lapse next time you move.
Linda Featheringill
@Will:
In 2013, I’d like to invest in a home FAX machine and FAX hand written letters to congresscritters, etc. promoting the actions that would please my little Marxist heart. And maybe a few other things.
Sort of like Tim was having us do during the ACA runup.
feebog
I see the Firebaggers are out and about this afternoon. Waiting for one of them to tell us there is no difference between Obama and the Rombot 2.0.
SFAW
@feebog:
Wait a minute – are you saying there is a difference? OMF!
Allan
Have you seen the pathetic Gary Johnson TV ad? Lame B&W horror movie about the eebil Democraps and Repiglicans. Audio is so badly mixed you can’t make out the dialog, which turns out to really suck once you figure out what they’re saying.
I’d link to it but he’s apparently too embarrassed to put it on his website.
Mnemosyne
@Linda Featheringill:
I sometimes wonder if any of the firebaggers who simultaneously call for single-payer healthcare and fulminate about any changes to Medicare realize that, by definition, a national healthcare system will kill Medicare. Any universal healthcare system will have to kill Medicare by definition because it would be ridiculous to maintain two separate systems, one for people under 65 and one for people over 65.
Spatula
@different-church-lady:
oh, you mean you can’t answer my questions?
Of course you can’t, because the “not voting for Obama is a vote for Romney” thing is bullshit.
different-church-lady
@Spatula: I’m just trying to help you escape your dilemma.
JustAnotherBob
@different-church-lady: Perhaps internet connection as well. Invest the savings in coloring books….
Spatula
@Mnemosyne:
So…wouldn’t a universal plan eliminate the need for Medicare? So why would anyone care if Medicare went away? Wouldn’t it sort of be like everyone having Medicare? Who are these imaginary firebaggers of whom you hallucinate?
Linda Featheringill
@Mnemosyne:
They’ll probably combine the two programs somehow but still call it Medicare. And just say that they’ve expanded Medicare. There would probably be less bloodshed that way.
Yutsano
@Linda Featheringill: It would be much simpler since Medicare is a familiar system to Americans and seniors overwhelmingly love it. The interesting part is if Medicare expands in its current iteration it usually covers 80% of costs, which means there will still be room for private insurers in such a scheme. And that doesn’t bother me. It works quite well for Australia.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@A moocher: I didn’t see it, but I suspect skype looks worse on TeeVee than a remote-studio shot, I further suspect Johnson thought he was being hip and edgy, or told himself he was being hip and edgy to excuse the fact that, following what Stuck said, he couldn’t fucking be bothered to drive into ABQ or wherever to be shot in a studio
Mnemosyne
@Spatula:
I’m still waiting for you to explain why Obama’s financial reform, health insurance reform, and support for gay marriage all take us in the “wrong direction.”
JustAnotherBob
If the firebaggers had read the PPACA they would realize that provisions in the act start the process of merging Medicaid and Medicare.
After a few years we’ll either see insurance companies do a great job of providing insurance at a good price or we’ll see budget concerns start the questioning about why we are paying more to suppliment private insurance policies for the “40 million” rather than giving them the cheaper government coverage.
I’m not willing to write off private insurance companies without giving them a chance to perform. If they are forced to deliver a quality product and then have to find ways to deliver at a competitive price we could see some serious innovation. Having worked in various government agencies, I wouldn’t say that innovation is their strong suit.
Mnemosyne
@Linda Featheringill:
That’s probably what they’ll do, but it will by definition be the end of Medicare as we know it, and doing so will require massive changes to the current program.
You can’t simultaneously hold the view that Medicare cannot be changed in any way and think that we should have universal health insurance because there’s no way to make that a workable system. Most of the problems with Medicaid are because it was set up as the poor sibling of Medicare so we do currently have a two-tiered system where you get better government healthcare after age 65 than you can before it.
SFAW
@Mnemosyne:
No, no, NO! It’s that “he didn’t do enough liberal stuff.”
Or not.
Mnemosyne
@SFAW:
Oh, I can go find the exact phrase if Timmeh wants to play his little word games and claim that he didn’t say Obama was taking us in the “wrong direction,” he said it was the “incorrect direction.” But it’ll have to wait until I get back from the bike shop. My rear tire is making a funny noise again and I’ve gotta take it over there before they close.
Ta!
SFAW
@Mnemosyne:
Don’t bother, I was just snarking purity-troll-boy, I’ve wasted too much time on him already, whether directly or indirectly.
Good luck with the bike.
trollhattan
@Mnemosyne:
Financial reform, healthcare, veteran’s care, ghey marriage–all delivered via drone.
Spatula
@Mnemosyne:
More intentional misreading of my comment, dear.
To paraphrase, I said that “enough” (or words similar)of his policies take us in the wrong direction to cause me great concern at the least, and perhaps to make me go “hmmm… what’s really up with this dude, and whose side is he really on?”
On all of the above you mentioned, I believe he has moved in a progressive direction, though with FAR less enthusiasm or conviction or aggressiveness than I would like to see or would expect from someone who means what he says. Regarding financial reform especially, it is far more milquetoast thus far than it needs to be and far too slow in coming.
Seriously, why do you keep intentionally twisting my words? I fuck up in my comments enough without you inventing things to argue with.
Gex
Okay, MN State Representative Diane Anderson came to my door today with a list of registered voters. When I asked her where she stood on the marriage amendment, she was super proud to have voted to put it on the ballot. I told her we were done here.
Thing is, I just told a Republican with a voter list that I’m not on her side. These days, it would be foolish not to check that I’m STILL registered in a week or so.
phoebes-in-santa fe
@General Stuck: I live in Santa Fe…
JustAnotherBob
@Spatula:
I believe all of us would have like more. A climate bill, full civil rights for all, an end to all the wars, the closure of Gitmo, ….
But some of us have looked at how bad things were at the beginning of 2009 and how strongly the Republicans have worked to produce failure. We see what has been accomplished and are thankful that we got what we got.
http://obamaachievements.org/list
PBO is a realist. He went to where the Republicans had left the wagon stuck in the ditch, pulled it out, cleaned it off, and started driving toward the progressive/liberal goal line.
Some, apparently, would have rather had him park himself just this side of the progressive goal line and wait for the wagon to come to him.
If you will take a little time and study what has happened I think you might have a bit different idea as to what has been accomplished. When you then consider the start point and the opposition I don’t think you will find it likely that anyone human could have moved things along faster.
SFAW
@JustAnotherBob:
Thanks for that link!
JustAnotherBob
I’m copying over something that I wrote earlier today on a clean energy site. I think it speaks to the issue of whether PBO has accomplihed much or not…
Then, consider that the three oil wars have cost us about $9 trillion dollars. More than 50% of our total national debt of about $16 trillion. If we are less dependent on foreign oil we are less likely to get caught up in a fourth oil war.
Now, was there a quick fix? I don’t see one. Most people would be totally unwilling to give up their personal cars. They would support impeaching a president before walking and riding the bus.
JustAnotherBob
@SFAW:
Have you seen this one?
http://whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com/
It’s a good one to email people with short attention spans….
General Stuck
@phoebes-in-santa fe:
Really, wouldn’t have guessed. :)
SFAW
@JustAnotherBob:
Well, I was about to bop over there, but …
SQUIRREL!
Comrade Jake
Just got back from Santa Fe. We had a nice dinner at this place called The Compound.
Ian
@Amir Khalid:
Saturday. More news coverage hours from here to the election. Generally, we’d be watching Lockup at that hour on MSNBC
You thought they had trouble filling the hours they already had scheduled for news!
dance around in your bones
I grew up in New Mexico. Santa Fe, All the Way!
Ruckus
@different-church-lady:
You mean the next time his mom moves and doesn’t forget to check the basement for anything left behind.
monkeyfister
He’s still going to sap a LOT of Conservative “protest” votes from Rmoney. He’ll cause more harm to Rmoney than Nader did to Gore. Mark my words.
More power to Gary Johnson!
karen marie
@KG: I hope you’re being paid well.
karen marie
@Mnemosyne: Uhmm … if we had single-payer, why would you need a segregated program for the olds?
Calouste
@James E. Powell:
The two party system in the US has nothing to do with the structure of government and everything with having first-past-the-post single member districts for almost everything.
Will
@Baud:
Right just as long as your side wins doesn’t matter what your side believes in
We love gay people, poor people not so much we love the free market too even more than the other guys
Cheap Jim
@Spatula: Look, on Jan 20, 2013, one of two people is going to be president. Jill Stein ain’t one. Nor is Gary Johnson. If you had a great need for some idea to be expressed in a candidate, you are over two years late in looking for it. You should have started, back then, to identify, recruit, and drive home a candidate.
People don’t get it; voting is the absolute end of the process. The whole thing starts much, much earlier. Sorry if you’re too much of a fool to have started when you ought to have, but that’s life.
Will
@Chyron HR:
Wouldn’t put it past him
FDR with all his faults and know they are plenty
still gave us Social Security while your guy Obama along with the DLC and Blue Dogs will help dismantle it
JustAnotherBob
@Cheap Jim:
Harsh.
But true.
It’s time to minimize losses. Jill won’t even be a blip on the radar. Mitt would be a terrible president for progressive and liberal interests.
If you can’t win with whom you really want at least make sure the worst person looses. Better to move a little bit in your desired direction than to move a bunch in the wrong one.
Then, the day after the election, get busy and start convincing us that you have a better idea….
different-church-lady
@Will: That particular chicken you’ve got there is already so fucked out that even Olive Garden wouldn’t cook it unless you took it to an STD clinic first.
Cheap Jim
@JustAnotherBob: Not harsh.
The start of the process is years away from any election. The midpoint is in thousands of school boards, city councils, and other penny-ante elected positions. Me, I’m OK with Obama; not joyous, just OK. But for those who aren’t, they missed the damn trolley years ago and they ought to learn that instead of just bitching.
LanceThruster
Please only feed the interesting trolls.
That is all.
Another Halocene Human
@JustAnotherBob: And you didn’t even get to the part where he put a huge downpayment on high speed passenger rail, which has successfully reduced commercial flights in Europe. Planes use way more fuel than cars.
Will
@different-church-lady: @different-church-lady:
@different-church-lady, that’s hilarious but try to focus and
stay on topic. Tell me do you usually vote for democrats or or only candidates that you get hot
How about getting some principals
JustAnotherBob
@Cheap Jim:
Harsh referred to this bit…
If Greens want to play in the big league then they have a lot of work to do in the minors. We’ve got a pretty strong Green party around here. Their ’04 presidential candidate is a local and Greens have held the majority of city offices in one of our towns.
Greens were doing pretty well until they ran Nader. I’ve met no one who felt that Nader caused Gore to lose, at least directly. But taking the chance turned a lot of us off. I had been voting for Green candidates when it was clear that the Democrat was clearly going to win, but after the Nader episode they’ve got a lot of making up to do.
I’ve got no use for spoiler moves. Well, unless they want to spoil Republican chances….
different-church-lady
@Will: Democrats usually align the most with my principles. (I have no idea what my principals think at this point, having not seen any of them for decades.) I have broken ranks now and again.
Just FYI: usually my caustic comments around here have a lot more to do with people saying stupid shit than any inherent animosity towards third parties or independents. Give me a candidate who’s got a viable chance of winning and I might tick the box. Give me a candidate running a vanity campaign and I won’t.
Is it ideal? No. Guess what — democracy means all the stupid fucking people get a vote too, and if you don’t get your shit together they’re the ones who get to govern. If we can somehow get ourselves into a world where the likes of Mitt Romney ain’t gonna get 47% of the vote the we can have deeper discussions about tightening the tolerance between my principles and the candidates I vote for. Wanking about vanity candidates on the internet ain’t gonna get us there. Perhaps a lot more third party reps and senators might, but that ain’t glamorous, so nobody wanks about it.
ETA: JustAnotherBob one post up says it a lot more concisely than I just did.
JustAnotherBob
@Another Halocene Human:
Good point. I had a chance to ride HSR in France this last spring. I came away totally in love with it. What a civilized and comfortable way to travel moderate length distances.
HSR has so many advantages over flying. Room. Terminals convenient to the city as opposed to airports out in the boonies. Smooth ride, no turbulence, no seat belts. Take your luggage on board with you rather than waiting and waiting at the carousel. Something to see outside the window other than “more sky”.
I’m hoping CA can get their system underway so that Americans can see how it works. We’re totally unable to learn from others.
JustAnotherBob
@Will:
I wonder if Will has a yet to be described form of dyslexia in which he doesn’t confuse his b/ds, p/qs, but his political parties?
You think he tried to write “Romney along with the GOP and Ryan” and it came out all ass-backwards?
Or is it a different conceptual problem that he presents?
different-church-lady
@JustAnotherBob: I believe, sadly, he meant exactly what he wrote. I’ve been seeing this same crap for, what, three years now — there is a fervent belief that at any moment dems are just gonna heave SS and the rest of the safety net under the bus. And every little tea leaf, every minor jigger is read as proof. I can only attribute it to cynicism run amok.
different-church-lady
“Lie Bot, what is the saddest thing?”
“The saddest thing is a man promising a country that there will be no more wars and no more death but cannot use a telephone.”
“Nooo!”
JustAnotherBob
@different-church-lady: There are some crazy-assed people on the right. I guess we should expect to have one or two on the left.
Clearly Social Security will have to be adjusted in some form as time goes along. We’re living longer, we’re not breeding new workers.
Raise the retirement age? Lower benefits? Raise the contribution ceiling? Import lots of new workers? Further “means testing” benefits? Some combination of some or all?
Personally I’d touch benefits last. Some people really depend on SS for just about everything.
Raising retirement age would be very tough on some, those who do physical work and are pretty much worked out by their mid-60s and those who get shoved out of the job market and have trouble getting rehired due to age.
Raising the contribution ceiling and returning some/all of the taxes collected as “income” to the Social Security fund would seem to be the least painful to me.
slightly_peeved
@Will:
I guess Will’s issue is with Obama’s education policy. More Principals, dammit!
nastybrutishntall
The problem with third parties is we have, on one side, a party of psychopaths who are happy to screw us back to the shit-covered middle ages and have all the money in the world and control half of everything already, and on the other side the party that you vote for that has a 50% chance of winning. There’s no room for anything more in that situation, besides vanity.
BruinKid
@SFAW: When it comes to libertarians, that’s a feature, not a bug.