The girl that I marry

This is interesting (via):

A pair of surveys asked Americans a more concrete question: in 1960, whether they would be “displeased” if their child married someone outside their political party, and, in 2010, would be “upset” if their child married someone of the other party. In 1960, about 5 percent of Americans expressed a negative reaction to party intermarriage; in 2010, about 40 percent did (Republicans about 50 percent, Democrats about 30 percent).

A note of caution: This party animosity is not historically new, just new to last several decades. At least partisans today are not brawling with and killing one another, as was true in the 19th century. But something seems to have changed since the less polarized era of the mid-20th century.

I do have Republican friends and they all describe themselves as “conservative” (though they’re not, if you go by the issues). One thing I cannot tolerate, though, is above-it-all centrists and people who think David Brooks is wise and moderate (there’s a lot of overlap between these two groups of course). If a friend says “both sides do it” or “there was a great David Brooks column yesterday”, I razz them mercilessly until they’ve either changed their mind or yelled uncle.

79 replies
  1. 1
    schrodinger's cat says:

    What do you do if they say they like Tom Friedman?

  2. 2

    Well, since 1960, the parties have sorted ideologically, and the Republican Party has entirely abandoned policy beliefs for tribal identity. (I tried to substantiate that with some polling data and discussion here). So, parties mean something different now than they did then. Being a Republican used to mean having certain views on some issues, but probably agreeing with Democrats on others. Today, it’s a deviant lifestyle choice.

  3. 3
    DougJ says:

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    That’s only ever happened once. And I was so surprised I didn’t know what to say.

  4. 4
    Violet says:

    If a friend says “both sides do it” or “there was a great David Brooks column yesterday”, I razz them mercilessly until they’ve either changed their mind or yelled uncle.

    You live in a blue state or blue area, right? Here in red state land, I take a different tactic. I play dumb. When they say something stupid, I say, “Tell me more about that” and get them to tie themselves in knots. It’s kind of a fun game.

  5. 5
    Punchy says:

    OT:

    Regular Refs and NFL owners very close to a deal.

    Now, on with your regular programming.

  6. 6
    Jewish Steel says:

    An unseemly display of passion for what one believes to be right is not for Our Sort, dear. Better to cultivate an Olympic detachment.

  7. 7
    PeakVT says:

    I think a major reason people say “both sides do it” is that it’s a good excuse to be lazy. Democracy is hard work, but if you convince yourself that choosing one party or candidate over another is meaningless, then you don’t have to feel bad about being a freeloader on those people who do work keep our democracy going. People like Kay, for instance.

  8. 8
    Baud says:

    Looking forward to the 2013 version of Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner.

  9. 9
    Xecky Gilchrist says:

    At least partisans today are not brawling with and killing one another

    They came unarmed…. THIS time.

  10. 10
    Jewish Steel says:

    @Jewish Steel:

    an Olympic detachment

    could also be employed as a pick-up line. in certain circles.

  11. 11
    Pavonis says:

    My family has a very weird tradition of far-left politics combined with capitalist entrepreneurship. I’m the most moderate, being an Obot and all. My fiancée is from a conservative family but I think everything will go fine as they don’t watch Fox News or listen to Limbaugh, which eliminates the craziness factors.

  12. 12
    Violet says:

    @Punchy: Where did you see this?

  13. 13
    scav says:

    @Punchy: dear dear, iz our buznizmen learning? If so, what? I couldn’t decide which was the bigger sin in their eyes, gving ground whatsoever to the the dirty unions or associating competence with unions on a national stage.

  14. 14
    Corner Stone says:

    @Violet:

    I say, “Tell me more about that” and get them to tie themselves in knots. It’s kind of a fun game.

    I do something similar once in a while. Say something like, “What’s that about?” so I can see how far down the talking point they have swallowed. Then after a bit I’m, “Oh, you mean you were referring to XYZ where this, this and this actually happened? That’s what you were talking about? Thanks”.
    Usually I do that to the ones who claim to be independent but are really just embarrassed Republicans.
    The hardcore rwnj’s don’t feel shame or understand factual rebuttals so I usually just tear into them for a while.
    Like you, I live in a target rich environment.

  15. 15
    schrodinger's cat says:

    I used to have many Republican friends, after Dubya’s 8 years most of them voted for Obama 4 years ago and are doing so again

    ETA: One even went to Ohio for GOTV operations four years ago.

  16. 16
    Joe Buck says:

    The people I know who seem to like David Brooks and who talk like Broder tend to be smug, financially successful people who look down on both the left and the religious right. They tend to think that income inequality is just peachy, and that all will be well if we just follow the advice of the Economist magazine.

  17. 17
    Valdivia says:

    I was at a dinner party two weeks or so ago and someone there (girlfriend of a good friend) started on the both sides do it thing. I went at her for 45 minutes–everyone was stunned by my ferociousness. I felt a little sheepish later but knew she had just hit the thing that drives me craziest so that was short lived.

  18. 18
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @Valdivia: Good for you! This both sides do it nonsense, is what annoys me about Jon Stewart as well.

  19. 19
    Maude says:

    @Valdivia:
    Good for you.

    Andy Williams died. 84.
    Moon River.

  20. 20
    Ash Can says:

    OK, I have to say that this is ridiculous. Yes, we’re all rabid partisans here, but objecting to your own kid’s happiness, in a major RL situation? That’s going too far. I’m sorry to see both those numbers so high.

  21. 21

    I would be upset if either of our two little girls grew up and marriaed a Republican. Shit. This is the party of Mitt Romney, Mitch McConnell, Eric Cantor, Todd Akin, Steve King, Michele Bachmann, Paul Ryan, Scott Walker, Jim DeMint, George Bush, Sarah Palin, Dick Cheney, Rick Santorum, Rick Perry, Allen West, David Vitter, Jefferson Beauregard Sessions, III, Mean Jean Schmidt, and on and on and on. It’s the party of voter supression of minorities. Of torture. Of gleeful racism. Of thinly weiled warnings not to question authority (whe they are in power) tarted up to look like patriotism. Of disregard for the rule of law. Of showing up at political rallies wearing guns. I could go on forever.

    Nobody today who belongs to this party can do so and claim not to know what it truly stands for. Anybody who chooses this party has chosen to stand with those I named above, and thousands more just like them in state and federal office all over the country. To my mind, anybody who chooses the Republican Party states, as clearly as can be, that they for than greed, bigotry, cruelty and willful ignorance. I hope that we bring our daughters up well enough that the thought of marrying anybody who chooses to be a believe what Republicans believe would repel them.

  22. 22
    Lurking Canadian says:

    @Baud: I heard that she’s dating [stage whisper]a Republican[/stage whisper]. We can’t have one of Those People in the family. What would Grand Mama say?

  23. 23
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    What changed is that, for a brief period of time, the rich could not engage in class warfare to hoard all of the money. Now that most people alive do not remember the Great Depression, its causes and consequences, the rich are again able to engage in class warfare.

  24. 24
    comrade scott's agenda of rage says:

    @PeakVT:

    I think a major reason people say “both sides do it” is that it’s a good excuse to be lazy.

    This. I have a number of glibertarian friends who are essentially Embarassed Republicans. All they do is find examples of what they consider to be left wing double standards and say “see, both sides do it”. Or talk about how they have have plenty of positions that would be deemed librul…without ever saying what those positions are. Thus, they fall back on the both sides do it or toss out the usual glibertarian talking points to excuse the fact they’re embarrassed to admit they still vote Republican.

    No amount of “razzing” penetrates these people. None.

  25. 25
    El Tiburon says:

    On a somewhat related topic: how many have lost close, close firends due to political divides?

    One of my long-time best friends since high school has erased me from his list of friends over politics. Of course he is a die-hard Rush Limbaugh Republican. We would get into heated debates via e-mail but could always put it aside when face to face.

    Then his oldest son became a Marine a few years ago and he went over the deep end. Since these type of Republicans believe America-Hating Liberals like me think the military are nothing but savages, it got really personal for him. It is really a shame but oh well.

  26. 26
    scav says:

    My lot would marry whoever they chose damn the topedoes, but I’d feel sorry for any repub that married into one side of the family — asbestos gets singed over there over little stuff. Maternal side is outwardly politer.

  27. 27
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    Parents, don’t let your children grow up to marry Rethuglicans! Until & unless they convert. (Make ’em vote absentee & hand you the ballot for sealing & mailing just to be sure.) ;)

  28. 28
    Punchy says:

    @Violet: Sportstalk radio is all over this. Now there’s a blurb on ESPN.

  29. 29

    That was meant to read:

    Of thinly veiled warnings not to question authority (when they are in power) tarted up to look like patriotism. Of disregard for the rule of law. Of showing up at political rallies wearing guns. I could go on forever.

  30. 30
    Raven says:

    @El Tiburon: I dunno I like you even though you are totally full of shit about 90% of the time!

  31. 31
    Citizen Alan says:

    @Ash Can:

    OK, I have to say that this is ridiculous. Yes, we’re all rabid partisans here, but objecting to your own kid’s happiness, in a major RL situation? That’s going too far. I’m sorry to see both those numbers so high.

    If you had a daughter, would you want her to marry a conservative Republican knowing what we all know about the attitudes most Republican men have about gender issues?

  32. 32
    Face says:

    I think the daughter understands that she can wed whomever. However, the boyfriend would quickly learn that, should he be a wingtard, his bullshit wouldn’t fly at family dinners and parties. I’m guessing the threat of facts and honesty in discussions would be a strong filter in clearing her calander of dates with tea/fire baggers.

  33. 33
    Valdivia says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: @Maude: Thank you guys. I really couldn’t believe I had found someone actually saying that there was no difference between Dems and Reps. I so lost it. My friend looked at me and just laughed because he knows me and probably expected me to battle her to the ground.

  34. 34
    Michael says:

    I once dated a very sweet conservative girl. It was ok at first. We teased each other, but it was mainly good-natured and we accepted that the other had different views. Then, eventually it became clear she was a racist. I have Republican neighbors. That didn’t stop us from getting along. Then, during the Chik-Fil-A controversy, it became clear – they hate gay people. After that, I’m very much less-inclined to have our families interact.

    Overall, I have a few conservative friends. Some really hate Democrats. Some have very different views on guns, regulations, etc. than I do. That doesn’t prevent us from being friends (and actually often leads to interesting conversations). The problem is, there’s just a whole lot of bigotry in the GOP these days, be it against, minorities, immigrants, gay people, women, non-Christians, or what.

    Not all Republicans are bigots, but a lot bigots are Republicans.

    I have a co-worker who I had to do an errand with in another department. It took forever. Afterward she said, “Lord, those people are slow.” and I said, “You mean the people in payroll?” and she said, “No, black people.” I got mad at her! She then got mad at me, saying things like, “I’m just more honest than you!” It was the whole, “You’re intolerance of my intolerance makes you the true bigot,” argument.

    Experience enough of that, and yeah, you want to just write off anyone in the GOP. Maybe that’s not right, but it’s not a half-bad proxy for characteristics you don’t want in the people you surround yourself with in life.

  35. 35
    Cassidy says:

    @Anatoliĭ Lъudьvigovich Bzyp (Mumphrey, et al.): A-motherfucking-men. I don’t give a shit how “nice” he is, if one of my kids brings home one of these conservative, republican, glibertarian fuckwits I’ll sned that little shitstain right back out the door. Those kind of people are not welcome in my home for any reason.

    I just make fun of them mercilessly. I have a military buddy who put up some shit about the Obama flag and how he serve dhis country, etc. So I started linking to the other versions of campaign flags and willard’s Cayman Island flag and just being a sarcastic dick. Not a peep. Same with the “both sides do it”. I honestly don’t give a shit who I offend anymore

  36. 36
    Forum Transmitted Disease says:

    On a somewhat related topic: how many have lost close, close firends due to political divides?

    @El Tiburon: None, but I may be about to over religion. One of my good friends (two and a half decades and counting) married a Jesus freak. She’s quite nice and knows not to discuss publicly. He’s caught the virus, fine as well, except that he’s started pushing the “Christians are totally oppressed in the United States OMG it’s like 1984 in this country if you luve Jebus” horseshit and I called his dumb fucking ass up and told him he sounded like that drooling dipshit retard Dave Mustaine (we’re both grown-up metalheads) but stupider.

    That did not go over well at all.

    I hope he figures out not to say stupid shit in public, or at least not to say it around me, because I’m not going to tolerate that level of utterly false bullshit out of anyone.

  37. 37
    Corner Stone says:

    @El Tiburon: Not really a “close” friend but we did a lot to help each other over the years and did family things together when we could. He still replies to me if I email him but he never initiates any conversation now. He didn’t like it when I detailed for him all the racist shit going down around us and basically told him “if the party fits”.
    The other wingnut I’ve been friends with for 20+ years. He comes from a family of pure, Grade AAA wingnut and has married a hateful little RWNJ troll. We stopped talking about politics a couple years ago and just talk about football and family stuff now.

  38. 38
    catclub says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: Suck on this?

  39. 39
    WereBear says:

    Heck, my husband’s grandfather was a prominent local Republican; back when that meant Ike.

    But I have successfully radicalized Mr WereBear, who was leaning Democratic anyway, and was totally against W. But he was certain the “grownups” in the party would step in and straighten things out; aghast and tormented by 2004, like most of us.

    And yes, I have a wingnut brother. And yes, I do think there’s something wrong with him.

  40. 40
    bemused says:

    @El Tiburon:

    As if children of Dems aren’t in the military.

  41. 41
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @El Tiburon: (raises hand)

    Old friend from HS tracked me down in the early Oh-Oh’s–her husband’s a VC & they are modestly well off (by VC standards) & both dedicated libertarians. We quickly became/resumed being best of friends, & through the Baby Bush years we were close as brothers & sisters–& never let politics get in the way.

    That all changed the day Obama was elected. Suddenly my inbox was stuffed every day with all the whackadoodle CTs & wild rumors of the far right. I knew they were (& are) waaaay too intelligent to believe this crap (my guess is they hoped against hope some of it was true because it would make it easier to get rid of Obama) but I tried to debunk as much as I could in my spare time, all the while asking, then begging them not to let politics come between us–but whenever I exploded a myth the respone was another couple-dozen accusatory e-mails. It got me so upset I finally had to block their addresses. Broke my heart, because I know these are good people somewhere underneath it all & I still love them like siblings, but I just couldn’t deal with them on that basis.

    I know I ought to try contacting them again. But maybe not until election season is over.

  42. 42
    dww44 says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: Thanks for the Jon Stewart comment. When he gets on that tack, I generally change the channel.

  43. 43
    Hungry Joe says:

    We always have to fight to convince my wife’s brothers to vote for Democrats because they insist that the Dems are far too conservative. But they always come around; usually it doesn’t take much more than reeling off the names of some Republicans. We’re basically democratic socialists, so it feels odd to be considered the conservatives in the family.

    On my side, my father once voted for a Republican in a non-partisan judicial race (he’d gone to school with the guy) and we never let him forget it.

    Our 17-year-old daughter spent the summer as a volunteer at the local labor council, and I suspect she’d sooner marry a three-legged okapi than a Republican. We’d be more accepting, that’s for damn sure.

  44. 44
    cat says:

    I used to know republicans who voted for Bush 43 and really really regreted it. They voted for Kerry in 2004 and didn’t like it one bit, but they were happy to vote for Obama in 2008, they will still vote for Obama but won’t be happy about it.

    They loathe Romney, but if they had not switched parties they would have voted for Romney in the primaries because the rest of the field scared them shitless.

    I think the research shows most people have choice/change blindness so we are going to be stuck with a large GOP voting population as they can’t see the GOP has changed or they believe they’ve always supported the GOP policies.

  45. 45
    dww44 says:

    @Uncle Cosmo: I’m hoping you live in Red State Land and that this reaction/behavior of your good friends isn’t from a Blue State area. Seriously, though, I’ve found that Obama’s election has driven some of my conservative friends and relatives around the bend, but they try to cover it up.

  46. 46
    bobbo says:

    will you please talk to my parents?

  47. 47
    Ash Can says:

    @Citizen Alan: I’m operating under the assumption that I would have brought her up to have sufficient self-esteem and wisdom to recognize decency in a person, and to be able to tell who would treat her and other people with compassion and respect and who would not, with partisan labels being secondary. If she were to fall for someone with the moral orientation of Newt Gingrich, the real underlying problem would have been evident well before that.

  48. 48
    Roger Moore says:

    @Ash Can:

    Yes, we’re all rabid partisans here, but objecting to your own kid’s happiness, in a major RL situation?

    That POV would be easier to maintain if the Republicans weren’t so anti-woman. Do you really want your daughter marrying somebody who thinks the government should be allowed to tell her what to do with her own body? Is marrying somebody who disrespects her that much really the route to personal happiness?

  49. 49
    maurinsky says:

    I would have a hard time if one of my daughter brought someone who votes for Republicans. But I grew up in a family where conversations *start* with politics and religion, and I’m pretty good at talking face to face to people with whom I disagree vehemently.

    My ex-husband’s family were all New England Republicans, which is to say that now they all vote for Democrats, at least on the national level. My SIL married a non-party affiliated wingnut (semi-glibertarian – supportive of ending drug war, doesn’t think gays should be subject to a different set of laws, huge gun-nut, used to say bigoted shit but stopped when he was called out for it), but he generally votes for dems as well.

  50. 50
    Ash Can says:

    @Roger Moore: See my reply @ #46.

  51. 51
    catclub says:

    @bobbo: Did BOTH of them marry a Republican? Ouch.

  52. 52
    shoutingattherain says:

    Most all my friends are libtards. We loathe Teahadists. It hasn’t come to drive-by shootings, but the day’s not over yet.

  53. 53
    Rafer Janders says:

    I do have Republican friends and they all describe themselves as “conservative” (though they’re not, if you go by the issues). One thing I cannot tolerate, though, is above-it-all centrists and people who think David Brooks is wise and moderate (there’s a lot of overlap between these two groups of course).

    Centrists. Fuck me. Say what you will about the tenets of Republicanism, at least it’s an ethos.

  54. 54
    Susanna K. says:

    I’ve never met anyone who liked or agreed with David Brooks, but I hope I do someday. I would want to ask that person a lot of questions about their upbringing and general view on the world, sort of as an anthropological curiosity. I’d also want to find out if they are unintelligent or just hopelessly naive.

  55. 55
    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism says:

    @Citizen Alan:

    If you had a daughter, would you want her to marry a conservative Republican knowing what we all know about the attitudes most Republican men have about gender issues?

    That was my reaction to that report. And I get a strong abuser vibe from so many of the prominent R, also, too.

  56. 56
    shoutingattherain says:

    @Citizen Alan:

    If you had a daughter, would you want her to marry a conservative Republican knowing what we all know about the attitudes most Republican men have about gender issues?

    If my daughter decided to marry a Republican me and Mrs satr would cry ourselves to sleep every night wondering where we went wrong.

  57. 57
    El Tiburon says:

    @Corner Stone:
    My “break up” was very ugly and tragic. We were FB friends (shared about 50 friends from HS) until the wife called me a pile of shit and wondered why anyone would ever be friends with me in any context.

    I considered this guy a brother – his family my family. His cousin and brother also defriended me.

    I tried reaching out a few months back but to no avail.

    Fuck ’em and feed ’em fish heads. These people really really hate all things they perceive as liberal.

  58. 58
    NickM says:

    @El Tiburon: I lost a very close friend in large part due to politics. He had been edging further and further into Republican insanity for a while, but the final straw was over a big group e-mail. Someone e-mailed an idiotic group e-mail about liberals wanting to eliminate “In God We Trust” from coins. I wrote something relatively light-hearted back saying that there certainly wasn’t a big controversy about it, and pointing out that many coins back in the 19th century didn’t have it, and that it was a relatively new development. My friend wrote back an unhinged screed about liberals wanting to teach 1st graders about “rimming and fisting” in Sex Ed, and other unhinged things. I had to look up those terms, frankly. It was so unnecessary, so personal (I was the only liberal in the exchange) so crazy, that was the beginning of the end. Pretty sad, but I can’t say I feel too bad about it now.

  59. 59
    Chris says:

    @reflectionephemeral:

    Well, since 1960, the parties have sorted ideologically, and the Republican Party has entirely abandoned policy beliefs for tribal identity.

    Exactly. That question meant nothing in 1960, when both parties were really loose confederations of lots of small, localized party organizations that disagreed with each other at least as much as with the other “party.”

    What they should’ve been asking is “would you be displeased if your child married a liberal/conservative?” rather than Democrat/Republican. With that accounted for, I would wager that 1960 was a lot more like today.

  60. 60
    JWL says:

    “One thing I cannot tolerate, though, is above-it-all centrists and people who think David Brooks is wise and moderate..”.

    I’m so set in my views that’s it’s at times strange to remember that some people do think like that. Sort of like how I feel when I discover that a performing artist whose talents I admire is a political idiot. John Voight, for example… where is Joe Buck?

  61. 61
    Davis X. Machina says:

    In a family with memories stretching back to the Battle of the Boyne, this is not a new idea, and ‘getting upset at your kid marrying one of them‘ is on the mild end of the historical spectrum of responses.

  62. 62
    Cassidy says:

    @shoutingattherain: That and you’ll always be wondering when your daughter will get divorced as her husband finally came out of the closet the rest of us knew he was hiding in.

  63. 63
    Chris says:

    @El Tiburon:

    On a somewhat related topic: how many have lost close, close firends due to political divides?

    Not “lost” like your story. I’ve never had anyone drop away from me because I’m a liberal, but I’ve done so myself to quite a few conservatives. First to the fundiegelical church I started going to in college (young and stupid, had never had a bad experience with religion before that, what can I say?), because the cult was getting intrusively personal and would’ve ended up taking over my life if I hadn’t cut them off. The second time was post-2008 election, when a couple of my conservative friends who until then had been more or less normal flipped a shit, went off the deep end and literally every other conversation with them was either stupidly partisan or mind-bendingly racist.

    What I’ve found is that I can get along with conservatives fine as long as there’s something to talk about other than politics (even if politics sometimes comes up). I’ve got more than a few very good friends from the other side of the aisle that I’ve bonded with over movies, TV, favorite restaurants, board games, shared interests you name it. Those friendships aren’t in any danger. But if every other conversation is going to be a partisan rant/whine, I’m probably going to drop you like a hot potato. That’s just how it goes.

  64. 64
    Chris says:

    @dww44:

    Seriously, though, I’ve found that Obama’s election has driven some of my conservative friends and relatives around the bend, but they try to cover it up.

    Same here, as I said above –

    At first I assumed it was because these people (who were about my age) had grown up and come to political awareness in an era controlled, to an unusually strong degree, by their party (the Bush years) – and were basically throwing a tantrum because it was the first time they’d ever had to deal with a government they didn’t vote for. But I’ve heard similar stories about a lot of much older people, too. Guess the blah thing really does drive people nuts.

  65. 65
    Chris says:

    @Citizen Alan:

    If you had a daughter, would you want her to marry a conservative Republican knowing what we all know about the attitudes most Republican men have about gender issues?

    If I ever have a daughter who gets married in a ceremony where the words “wives, submit to your husbands” are spoken, I don’t care if it’s with a Republican, an independent, a Democrat or a fucking anarcho-syndicalist, I will consider it an EPIC failure of my parenting skills.

  66. 66
    Forum Transmitted Disease says:

    OK, I have to say that this is ridiculous. Yes, we’re all rabid partisans here, but objecting to your own kid’s happiness, in a major RL situation? That’s going too far. I’m sorry to see both those numbers so high.

    @Ash Can: I’ve dated quite a few Republicans in my day. Wasn’t a problem. If I had kids, so long as the person in question treats them well and doesn’t insist we all have to join the cult, I’d be fine with it. Kinda surprised at the number of people here who aren’t, although I get the concern about daughters.

    Plus, those GOP girls are hell on wheels in the sack. Absolute animals, especially the religious ones.

    ETA: I did end up marrying a Democrat, albeit one that’s considerably more conservative than I am. Politics is not an issue.

  67. 67
    bemused senior says:

    One of my daughters’ first big love interest was an African-American and a Republican. When he asked her if we were going to object to her dating a black man, she replied “No. But they might object to my dating a Republican.” She was joking, but only partly. I would be concerned if either daughter married a Republican, because I value our happy family times together, and I can’t imagine finding topics off-limits to keep the peace.

  68. 68
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @dww44: We lived on opposite coasts (of the same or different oceans, depending on where they pitched camp at the time) but kept in touch via e-mail & the occasional visit. The ideological separation turned out to be a few megaparsecs greater.

  69. 69
    Ben Cisco says:

    @El Tiburon: Lost touch with a friend (I moved away for a job but we talked and emailed). He worked in an office with a TV tuned to Faux all day, Limbaugh on the radio, Limbaugh emails in the inbox, etc. I found out that he fervently believed the Clinton smears from back in the day. He pushed back hard when I pointed out the obvious (to me, anyway) racism of the goopers’ reaction to President Obama, and was absolutely furious when he asked me if I thought black conservatives were Uncle Toms and I replied, “Knowing the true history of the novel and the man who inspired it, no.”

    That was almost three years ago.

  70. 70
    Chris says:

    @Forum Transmitted Disease:

    Plus, those GOP girls are hell on wheels in the sack. Absolute animals, especially the religious ones.

    Heh. I totally believe that, actually.

  71. 71
    jibeaux says:

    This year I hear a lot of “both sides do it” from conservatives. It’s like their way of admitting that their side is totally full of shit and indefensible, but that maybe they can at least fight someone undecided to a draw without having to make any actual arguments.

  72. 72
    El Tiburon says:

    @NickM:

    He had been edging further and further into Republican insanity for a while, but the final straw was over a big group e-mail.

    Oh the Group e-mail.

    My God these people smoke these down like crack cocaine.

    Back in high school (1980s) we were all pretty apolitical to an extent. Over the years, though, we all became pretty entrenched. I was radicalized during the Bush years; my friends were born into it (south Texas).

    I remember the first Group E-mail I received from my now ex-friend was a pic of the military not praying or something. The caption was something to the extent the ACLU would not allow the military to pray or some such nonsense. I Snoped it and replied. I naively assumed my friend would see the light and errors of his way.

    Boy was I wrong. He replied that it didn’t matter if it was true or not because the fact remained the ACLU were a bunch of communist America haters.

    What an eye-opening experience.

  73. 73
    kathleen says:

    You may like to know that Jesus is reported to have said: “Woe to those who are neither hot nor cold. I shall vomit them out of my mouth.”
    He didn’t mince words much.

  74. 74
    Merfy says:

    I can personally speak to this issue. I met my husband in the early 90s. Knowing his family were big Republicans in town, I turned him down every time he asked me out. In fact, at one point I tried to scare him away by describing myself as “this close to being a soc1alist.” (This was back when that term actually meant what it’s supposed to mean.) Anyway, long story short, he turned out to be a great person, and I eventually agreed to marry him without enough thought for what our political differences would mean down the road. My father, however, stood up at our rehearsal dinner and told everyone that on his recent visit to FDR’s home in Hyde Park he had thrown a coin into the fountain with the wish that Mr. Merfy weren’t a Republican. Well, he still is, and I am even more liberal than I was back in the day. Our relationship has its challenges (we nearly divorced after the election of 2004; I still can’t get over the fact that I sleep with someone who voted for Dubya!), and I certainly wouldn’t wish these avoidable troubles on my own children.

  75. 75
    WereBear says:

    It has been my experience that every nice person I meet who is a Republican are simply not in touch with what Republicans actually do these days. They dismiss Santorum as a “fringe” candidate, point out that “politics are crazy in the South/MidWest” when I bring up the awful anti-woman bills being passed there, and will exclaim they can’t stand the President, though everything they don’t like about him is a lie.

    They will not give up the fantasy Republican party that dwells in their head; and will not stop hating the fantasy Democratic party that is in opposition to it.

  76. 76
    Loviatar says:

    In 1960, about 5 percent of Americans expressed a negative reaction to party intermarriage; in 2010, about 40 percent did (Republicans about 50 percent, Democrats about 30 percent)

    You spend 40+ years not just disagreeing with me but demonizing me and everything I believe in and I’m suppose to fell good about my child possibly marrying your child. HELL NO!!!

    The only reason we haven’t seen a return to the actual physical conflicts of the mid 1800’s is because liberals/progressives remember the cost to the country. Conservatives also remember the cost but this time they think they will win the war so it will be worth it.

    However, just so we’re clear, we are there emotionally, this country is at a tipping point and is just a small incident away from some nasty inter party conflicts.

  77. 77
    Ken says:

    Verily, I’m in a mixed marriage; I’m a Democrat, my wife a Republican, or at least a registered Repub. Her take on Romney; “He’s an asshole”. I think she’s starting to come around..

  78. 78
    Rafer Janders says:

    @Forum Transmitted Disease:

    Plus, those GOP girls are hell on wheels in the sack. Absolute animals, especially the religious ones.

    So, so true.

    My policy has always been that I won’t let political differences stop me from having sex with Republicans.

    But I do insist on fucking them in the ass.

  79. 79
    Sondra says:

    While phonebanking for the AFL-CIO I got one Union household where the wife told me that her husband is the Democrat, but she is a Republican. She was very curious and really wanted information. She asked me to explain to her what Liberals really think.

    After a 45 minute conversation I said Lizzy, I’m the most Liberal Liberal you will ever talk to: the “Fire Breathing Liberal” of Bob Wexler’s book. And after talking to you all this time about everything we both agree on, I have to tell you that you are a Liberal too.

    Poor Lizzy was just stunned, but in the end she had no choice but to agree. I think she felt a lot better. She turned out to be a very nice lady who will certainly think about me when she hears the term Liberal being demonized.

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