The Great American Blackout Of 2012

Apparently Mitt Romney getting statistically zero percent of the African-American vote is too much to prevent the issue of gay marriage from permanently dooming the Obama campaign, as the Associated Press has found a couple of black pastors willing to tell their congregations to stay home over the President’s support for same-sex matrimony.

The pastors say their congregants are asking how a true Christian could back same-sex marriage, as President Barack Obama did in May. As for Republican Mitt Romney, the first Mormon nominee from a major party, congregants are questioning the theology of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its former ban on men of African descent in the priesthood.

In 2008, Obama won 95 percent of black voters and is likely to get an overwhelming majority again. But any loss of votes would sting.

“When President Obama made the public statement on gay marriage, I think it put a question in our minds as to what direction he’s taking the nation,” said the Rev. A.R. Bernard, founder of the predominantly African-American Christian Cultural Center in New York. Bernard, whose endorsement is much sought-after in New York and beyond, voted for Obama in 2008. He said he’s unsure how he’ll vote this year.

Luckily, not even the AP is able to completely escape the very real specter of GOP voter discrimination and suppression efforts and the new Jim Crow voter ID laws.

It’s unclear just how widespread the sentiment is that African-American Christians would be better off not voting at all. Many pastors have said that despite their misgivings about the candidates, blacks have fought too hard for the vote to ever stay away from the polls.

Black church leaders have begun get-out-the-vote efforts on a wide range of issues, including the proliferation of state voter identification laws, which critics say discriminate against minorities. Last Easter Sunday, a month before Obama’s gay marriage announcement, the Rev. Jamal-Harrison Bryant of Baltimore formed the Empowerment Network, a national coalition of about 30 denominations working to register congregants and provide them with background on health care, the economy, education and other policy issues.

Now anyone who has remotely been paying attention to my loud, snark-filled diatribes on Why The Hell You Should Vote knows that I agree with this latter position, especially when it comes to the African-American vote.  It stuns me that black pastors, themselves the key engines of the civil rights movement 50 years ago and organized into a real power as Dr. King’s Southern Christian Leadership Conference (an organization still run by his son today) would ever, under any circumstances, actively tell their congregations to abstain from voting.

It’s the most asinine, insulting, thick-headed, addle-brained non-solution to the problem I can possibly think of.  What the hell was the civil rights movement for if not to secure the right of all to vote, the single most powerful action you can take in a representative democracy?  If there’s any group that should understand that without the right to vote that you have no power whatsoever, it should be black pastors.

But no.  Apparently even with the Republican party actively trying to disenfranchise millions of black voters nationally here in 2012, it’s okay to say “Hey why should black folks vote?  TEH MORMONS AND THE GHEY just stay home.”

You could slap magnets on Dr. King’s grave and a have a large coil of copper wire and power half of the eastern seaboard from the spinning.  The fight is still going on, and we’re disarming because of the gall of one candidate wanting to expand civil rights to include another disenfranchised minority?  No, I’m going to need for these pastors to have all the seats in Great American Ballpark AND Paul Brown Stadium and sit the hell down for a second.

This is the AP looking for a story that doesn’t exist, and a scapegoat that won’t be needed.  Sick and tired of blah people getting the blame for LGBT problems in the country when the real bad guys vote and are Republicans.

Eyes on the prize, folks.

99 replies
  1. 1
    gwangung says:

    Who. I need a cigarette, and I don’t even smoke…

  2. 2
    kindness says:

    Every group has their bigots. Every group has people who are nice and people who are assholes.

    It is what is. Won’t matter. Obama will win.

  3. 3
    wesindc says:

    While I want everyone to vote, this could be a good thing in Maryland. The black church caucus there are the most vocal regarding the marriage equality vote. Considering the MD vote is pretty much stuck at 50/50 now, the fewer mouth breathers that vote will more then likely make the bill pass!

  4. 4
    staci says:

    My ex-husband is a Baptist pastor in Southern California. I called him when Obama made his announcement. He immediately said that not only would he not be voting for Obama this election, and he was fairly certain none of his congregation would be voting for him either. Whether or not they will vote down ticket, I don’t know. I said during that time that Obama had lost a lot of votes that day and I’m still unsure whether or not he can re-capture them for 2012. Folks can mock and attempt to shame to their hearts desire, but ridiculing people will not get them to the polls. I also talked to my very church-going niece in Savannah, GA. She also believes her fellow church members will sit this election out. I’m not so sure the AP is “looking for a story that doesn’t exist”. To what degree, who knows, but the issue is out there and it will not go away because people think these folks are bigoted.

  5. 5
    Dork says:

    “When President Obama made the public statement on gay marriage, I think it put a question in our minds as to what direction he’s taking the nation,” said the Rev. A.R. Bernard

    Shorter Rev. B — who needs foodstamps, housing loans, Medicaid, and family planning when fags can get hitched?

    Dumbest M.F.er I’ve ever heard.

    Edit: What in my above post puts me in moderation? Which word is taboo?

  6. 6
    jibeaux says:

    @staci: Eh, nobody cares what voters in California or Georgia are doing. Not exactly swing states.

    As for these preachers, if you’re too dense to understand the connection between civil rights for all races and civil rights for all sexual orientations, then yes, you’re likely too dense to understand civil rights at all. But I think it is a statistically insignificant number of A-A voters who are going to refrain from voting for Obama over gay marriage.

  7. 7
    The Dangerman says:

    I see Mitt Romney is in SoCal today for a rally. I guess it’s to raise his numbers amongst Latinos.

    Now, Mitt will lose CA by 60-40 and the Latinos lack of interest in him is only exceeded by African American lack of interest in him (lack being defined as within the MOE of zero)…

    …so another complete waste of time by him. I’m still thinking Performance Artist. Skipping the debates would seal the deal for me.

  8. 8
    Shawn in ShowMe says:

    It stuns me that black pastors, themselves the key engines of the civil rights movement 50 years ago and organized into a real power as Dr. King’s Southern Christian Leadership Conference (an organization still run by his son today) would ever, under any circumstances, actively tell their congregations to abstain from voting.

    What’s so stunning about it? Cherry picking the Bible is a lot older pastime than the civil rights movement. What’s next — being flabbergasted by Jews who practice apartheid?

  9. 9
    Triassic Sands says:

    True Christians don’t all believe exactly the same things — I realize there is ZERO ambiguity in the Bible and even the most detail-oriented forensic team would never be able to find an actual inconsistency in that work of godly perfection, but still, with all the Christians in the world there might be one or two who don’t see exactly eye-to-eye on every issue of morality.

    Any black cleric who thinks that the (perceived, aka imaginary) damage done to society by same-sex marriage would be equivalent to the catastrophic damage done across a wide range of issues by Mitt is just too stupid to be giving anyone advice about anything.

    I guess all true Christians have to stay home every election, since there will always be at least one disqualifying position for every candidate who will ever run for office.

    Don’t vote for candidate A because he supports same-sex marriage. And don’t vote for candidate B because she supports capital punishment. Don’t vote for C because she favors preemptive war, but don’t vote for D because he is for a woman’s right to choose. Even if we were magically able to greatly improve the quality of our political candidates, there will never be a candidate who satisfies a religious zealot on every issue.

    So, I guess the first rule of Christianity is DON’T VOTE, since supporting the lesser evil, even if it is a hugely lesser evil matched against Satan himself, means you’d have to vote for someone whose beliefs are not 100% in accordance with scripture (which would be impossible anyway if the unthinkable were true and the Bible contained even one moral inconsistency).

    Oh, and don’t vote for God — that SOB was a genocidal maniac.

  10. 10
    jibeaux says:

    @The Dangerman: Damn, he’s actually embraced the philosophy that the more voters see of him they less they like him, and has chosen the place with the best weather where he can do the least damage.

  11. 11
    NCSteve says:

    It’s unclear just how widespread the sentiment is that African-American Christians would be better off not voting at all.

    That’s AP for “my assignment editor wanted me to write this story and actual data would have undermined my ability to write it so I went with some anecdotes.”

  12. 12
    BGinCHI says:

    Black folks voting against the civil rights of others.

    Now that’s progress, GOP-style.

  13. 13
  14. 14
    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism says:

    “When we see you and certain other ministers who use the Bible in such an inconsistent and politically motivated manner in an attempt to defeat President Obama, you are not carrying out the will of our God of justice, you are instead engaging in Selective Scriptural Amnesia and committing Ministerial Malpractice….”

    Open letter posted on Facebook to a North Carolina preacher responsible for anti-Obama radio ads. Linky to an column about the whole business.

  15. 15
    taylormattd says:

    Apparently the AP was talking to Dan Savage, John Aravosis, and gay kossacks from 2008.

  16. 16
    Chad says:

    As a blah man if my pastor told me to not vote because Obama backs marriage equality I’d walk out of church with a middle finger raised for the women with the big hats to see. FOH

  17. 17
    Inkadu says:

    MLK’s right hand man was gay, and as soon as that was at risk of becoming public, he had to quit. Civil rights movements are always driven by a single population, not a theoretical orientation. Women ultimately screwed over blacks in the suffrage movement. And seriously, black culture is very hostile towards gays. There’s even a black atheist group thats anti-gay. Its extremely disappointing, stupid and dangerous to not support Obama on this, but not surprising.

  18. 18
    taylormattd says:

    @BGinCHI: Well, other than the fact that it’s not true, I suppose you are right.

  19. 19
    rikyrah says:

    light their asses up.

  20. 20
    staci says:

    @jibeaux: You know, some of you folks kill me. With your suave words, you can really move people over to your way of thinking.

  21. 21
    var says:

    Are you advocating the desecration of the grave of Dr. King? You’re as bad as Bush and All True Progressives should stay home this election to protest this kind of conduct by the Obots and their juicy balloons. So there

  22. 22
    gogol's wife says:

    @EdTheRed:

    Truly nauseating. This man has to be stopped.

    Isn’t it amazing how fluently he speaks there? When he’s among “his own”?

  23. 23
    rikyrah says:

    There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what,” Romney says in one clip. “All right — there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent on government, who believe that, that they are victims, who believe that government has the responsibility to care for them. Who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing.”

    Here’s a link to the rest of the vids:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....29455.html

  24. 24
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @staci: You said the people basically were not movable. If one takes you at your word, why should effort be spent chasing immovable voters in a state that is not up for grabs? One must prioritize, right?

  25. 25
    patroclus says:

    @Inkadu: Bayard Rustin was certainly gay, but I wouldn’t exactly describe him as MLK’s “right-hand man.” More like an off-and-on advisor. And, while the SCLC did distance itself from Rustin as a result of the FBI-generated controversy, in the early 60’s, Rustin morphed into A. Philip Randolph’s “right hand man” and was the principal organizer of the March on Washington in 1963, at which MLK rather famously made a good speech. I highly recommend “Lost Prophet” by John D-Emilio – an excellent biography of Rustin.

  26. 26
    Felinious Wench says:

    @Triassic Sands:

    So, I guess the first rule of Christianity is DON’T VOTE, since supporting the lesser evil, even if it is a hugely lesser evil matched against Satan himself, means you’d have to vote for someone whose beliefs are not 100% in accordance with scripture (which would be impossible anyway if the unthinkable were true and the Bible contained even one moral inconsistency).

    Bullshit. This has nothing to do with Christianity. It’s liberal vs. conservatives…and yes, there are plenty of liberal Christians.

  27. 27
    bondirotta says:

    Complete Twitter meltdown over the secret Romney speech tapes. This will dominate the whole week.

    Wowza.

  28. 28
    Culture of Truth says:

    The pastors say their congregants are asking how a true Christian could back same-sex marriage

    Which part of the new testament addresses this?

  29. 29
    patroclus says:

    Coretta Scott King, was rather outspoken in her pro-gay rights views. If either Martin or Coretta were around today, I supect that both would disagree vehemently with the bigoted views of some of these African-American “Christians.”

    Regarding the issue itself, Jesus rather specifically commanded people to love one another with no stated exceptions for gays and lesbians. If one purports to follow his teachings, I think they should be pro-love.

  30. 30
    Felinious Wench says:

    @Culture of Truth:

    Which part of the new testament addresses this?

    None. Pure bigotry.

  31. 31
    trollhattan says:

    A-freakin-men, Zandar.

    Vote, vote and vote. Vote some more, then vote.

  32. 32
    Schlemizel says:

    After President Johnson signed the Civil Rights act he is reported to have told aides, “we just delivered the South to the Republican Party for a long time to come.”

    This is the history of progress, it takes time, it is not a smooth upward arc, the oppressed can turn into oppressors and even Christians can ignore the teachings of the Christ. But you just suck up, ruck up and soldier on. Doing the right thing may cost you short-term but decent people do the decent thing even when its not the easy thing.

    If Barry cost the Dems a few votes people will come to regret not making the votes.

  33. 33
    patroclus says:

    @Culture of Truth:

    “Love thy neighbor as thyself”

    “Judge not lest ye be judged”

    “Whosoever believes in Christ as Lord shall enter the kingdom of heaven.”

  34. 34
    Schlemizel says:

    @Felinious Wench:
    Well, if you want to get technical, some of the epistles of John can be read to cover this. The problem for Christians is to explain why John would have say over what Jesus thought. He actually disagrees with the Christ on a few things and mostly those get swept under the rug. Why those letters are included in the New Testament say a lot more about the early Catholic Church and the politics at the time they decided what should be included in the Bible.

    The cafeteria method of selection greatly affected the total package to everyone’s determent.

  35. 35
    Felinious Wench says:

    @EdTheRed:

    MoJo has lots of juicy bits from Mitt’s “Whitey Tape”.It’s both nauseating and awesome.

    Oh man, these tapes are REALLY bad. Not “I can’t believe he said that” bad, they’re “I can’t believe he’s that cold and calculating and non-human” bad.

    It’s awful.

  36. 36
    Culture of Truth says:

    @patroclus: Ah, now I see the hidden anti-gay message therein

  37. 37
    Punchy says:

    @staci: So the correct thing to do….to capture these voters you describe….is to fuck over gay Americans? That’s the answer?

    Sometimes the right thing isn’t the easy thing, and in 10 years (3 years?), your god bothering acquaintences will look foolish for being such fucking bigots.

  38. 38
    Culture of Truth says:

    Wasn’t Jesus an unmarried 30 year old hanging with a bunch of guys?

  39. 39
    ThatLeftTurnInABQ says:

    @Culture of Truth:

    Which part of the new testament addresses this?

    __
    The part where Jesus got married and had a Big Fat Greek Wedding just to show everybody how it’s done, and then went to Las Vegas for the honeymoon, where he preached the Prosperity Gospel and wrote the US Constitution. Honestly, don’t you heathens know anything about the Bible? Sheesh.

  40. 40
    GregB says:

    @rikyrah:

    Mitt Romney is Sascha Baron Cohen.

  41. 41
    Felinious Wench says:

    @Schlemizel:

    Why those letters are included in the New Testament say a lot more about the early Catholic Church and the politics at the time they decided what should be included in the Bible.

    Ding, ding, ding!

    Been reading the Gnostic Gospels again. I heart Elaine Pagels.

  42. 42
    KG says:

    @Culture of Truth: well, 13 guys and a couple of prostitutes (allegedly)

  43. 43
    TG Chicago says:

    It’s the most asinine, insulting, thick-headed, addle-brained non-solution to the problem I can possibly think of.

    I know what you’re saying here, but it’s a bit off-message to refer to the president’s support of gay marriage as a “problem”.

  44. 44
    Nina says:

    I am wondering whether some of these pastors might have seen some anonymous donations lately. There is an awful lot of untrackable money in this election coming from the right.

  45. 45
    patroclus says:

    @Schlemizel: No. The bigots hang their hat on Paul’s epistles to the Romans and Corinthians; not any writings attributed to John. Paul, of course, was Saul of Tarsus, a relentlessly judgmental Pharisee that persecuted many prior to his conversion. It would seem that he didn’t let go of all of his views after travelling to Damascus. Jesus himself was pretty pro-love – the bigots today are more Pauline than Christian.

  46. 46
    Schlemizel says:

    @patroclus:
    Raised as a Methodist this one always annoys me:
    “Whosoever believes in Christ as Lord shall enter the kingdom of heaven.”

    So Hitler, who professed a belief in Jesus and the pedophile priests and all those Christian slave owners are in heaven today while Gandhi, Buddha and millions of aborigines who have harmed nobody are in Hell?

    What kind of God is this Hairy Thunderer?

  47. 47
    EdTheRed says:

    @Felinious Wench: It’s like a performance art project, where someone decided to pose as the absolute pinnacle of entitlement and lack of self-awareness. It’s like Patrick Bateman at age 60: I half expect him to start talking about Huey Lewis and the News while getting an ax ready.

  48. 48
    Chyron HR says:

    @rikyrah:

    “There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what,” Romney says in one clip.

    So basically Mitt is saying the only way he can win is if he gets a whopping 96 percent of the remaining people to vote for him.

    DERP DERP UNLIMITED VICTORY WORKS

  49. 49
    Paul says:

    It stuns me that black pastors, themselves the key engines of the civil rights movement 50 years ago and organized into a real power as Dr. King’s Southern Christian Leadership Conference (an organization still run by his son today) would ever, under any circumstances, actively tell their congregations to abstain from voting.

    Not only that. What’s even more infuriating is that here’s another group fighting for their rights. And these black pastors are giving them the cold shoulder. Did these hypocritical black pastors forget their own struggle for civil rights some 50 years ago? It is just appalling.

  50. 50
    Punchy says:

    well, 13 guys and a couple of prostitutes (allegedly)

    So Jesus was in a fraternity, eh? Tappa Kegga Brew?

  51. 51
    Schlemizel says:

    @Felinious Wench:
    Never read Gnostic Gospels, is it worth the time?

  52. 52
    Lit3Bolt says:

    Seriously, what is the African-American hostility towards gays based upon? Christianity? The same fucking Christianity that told them they should be fucking slaves and like it?

    Black preachers against President Obama over gay marriage should be fucking stoned to death. The fact that Black Christianity can be reduced to this is beyond fucking shameful.

    I guess we’re going to have to wait for a gay black president to be voted into the White House for these issues to be solved. Wake me up in the next 200 years.

  53. 53
    Schlemizel says:

    @patroclus:
    You’re right I got the wrong guy.

    I was trying to do 6 things at once & get ready to go out for the night – needed to think more & type less

  54. 54

    @Lit3Bolt: Well if you believe the latest theory of the Birther di tutti Birthers, we already have one.

  55. 55
    Schlemizel says:

    @Punchy: Nah, he was a good Jewish boy!
    He lived at home until he was thirty, he went into his father’s business, his mother thought he was God, and he thought his mother was a virgin.

    sorry for that very old joke

  56. 56
    japa21 says:

    @Schlemizel: Well, it doesn’t say that those who don’t believe in Christ as Lord won’t get into heaven. And there is actually some verses in the New Testament that recognize that non-believers may get in as well.

  57. 57
    patroclus says:

    @Schlemizel: I think you are conflating the “kingdom of heaven” with “heaven.” The kingdom of heaven is better thought of as a real earthly group of communal believers rather than some sort of pie-in-the-sky utopia to which dead people go.

    Hitler, by his actions, was clearly not part of the kingdom of heaven – Martin Niemoller and Dietrich Bonhoeffer, whom he persecuted, were.

    Otherwise, though, good point!

  58. 58
    Schlemizel says:

    @japa21:
    I can’t think of any at the moment but then its been 20+ years since I last read the dang thing. The ones I do remember tend to support the “None come to the Father except by be” track

  59. 59
    Felinious Wench says:

    @Schlemizel:

    Never read Gnostic Gospels, is it worth the time?

    I’d read Elaine Pagel’s book, then the actual Gospels if you’re so inclined. She does a great job at weaving the text of the G. Gospels with their beliefs, as well as how those texts got pushed out and supressed by the early church fathers.

    Changed my whole perception of Christianity.

  60. 60
    trollhattan says:

    @Felinious Wench:
    Finished reading the MJ excerpts. Yeesh, Willard truly is Gordon Gekko w/o the hookers and blow (or so we’re led to believe). Recalling Obama’s “bittergate” tape where he was caught basically telling the truth about religion and guns role in America, this is infinitely more damning. Willard is one crass dude.

  61. 61
    Culture of Truth says:

    @EdTheRed: If Mitt starts singing sussudio during a debate, run.

  62. 62
    Felinious Wench says:

    @Lit3Bolt:

    Seriously, what is the African-American hostility towards gays based upon?

    IGMFU

    It’s more nuanced than that, but that’s definitely how it looks from the outside of the community.

  63. 63
    japa21 says:

    @Schlemizel: Ah, but that particular phrase does not say one has to believe in Christ, more that He is kind of like a gatekeeper. Unlike what the current Evangelicals tell you, Christ himself (according to the Gospels (with the possible exception of John, the last one written) focused more on the works one did rather than some pronouncement of believe in Him.

  64. 64
    Culture of Truth says:

    Seriously, what is the African-American hostility towards gays based upon?

    media desperation

  65. 65
    Felinious Wench says:

    @trollhattan:

    Recalling Obama’s “bittergate” tape where he was caught basically telling the truth about religion and guns role in America, this is infinitely more damning.

    It needs to be a front page post.

  66. 66
    Schlemizel says:

    @patroclus:
    Actually the whole idea of Heaven is pretty iffy in the NT. If you read Revelations (and I would not suggest that!) It is stated that there will only be 12 dozen people in heaven at the time of the Second Coming. Some bright folks saw quickly that that was not enough to interest many people & tried to make it 144,000. Those guys are supposed to be the earthly Princes for Gods kingdom after the return.

    Everyone else is presumably moldering in the ground until the are resurrected for judgement. Those judged worthy will live in an Earthly paradise under the rule those 12 dozen & the rest will be tossed into a lake of fire to suffer for all time.

    This may take place on Kolob or Xenu for I can tell!

    I’m not getting ready to go out very well but I love these kinds of discussions!

  67. 67
    patroclus says:

    @japa21: Exactly. And, having just criticized Paul for his anti-gay bigotry, let me praise him by saying that it is his writings and actions that extended the love philosophy to non-Jews and heretofore non-believers. There is a dualism that one finds in Paul that is infuriating and frustrating – sometimes good, sometimes awful. Thankfully, the religion isn’t based on him, which is why there are Christians but not Paulines. Many preachers don’t seem to understand this.

  68. 68
    David in NY says:

    @Schlemizel: re: “Gnostic Gospels”

    In my view, they dispel any tendency to see the Bible as a book that talks about us — it clearly grew out of a world so different from ours … Great for context.

    ETA: And yes, read Pagels for explanation.

  69. 69
    Shawn in ShowMe says:

    @Lit3Bolt

    Seriously, what is the African-American hostility towards gays based upon? Christianity?

    Same thing Hispanic and Italian hostility toward gays is based upon — machismo. Christianity is the cover story.

  70. 70
    Scott S. says:

    @Culture of Truth:

    media desperation

    This, very much. The media wants a horse race, and they’re very willing to exaggerate the miniscule numbers of African-Americans who will stay home rather than vote for Obama.

  71. 71
    SBJules says:

    @The Dangerman:

    I just saw him on the local LA station & I noticed that Romney walks funny. I can’t describe it other then stiffly. Very odd. Somehow I don’t think he’s picking up any votes here.

  72. 72
    Anoniminous says:

    @Triassic Sands:

    I guess the first rule of Christianity is DON’T VOTE

    I’m cool with that.

  73. 73
    JayJohnstone says:

    Huge O fan but not convinced that Bittergate II will make any difference.

    “clinging to Gods and guns” was much worse re: Bad Sound Bite.

  74. 74
    raven says:

    More like Paul Broun stadium.

  75. 75
    Steeplejack (phone) says:

    @staci:

    It’s hard, maybe impossible, to reason people out of positions they did not reach by reason.

  76. 76
    Felinious Wench says:

    @Scott S.:

    The media wants a horse race, and they’re very willing to exaggerate the miniscule numbers of African-Americans who will stay home rather than vote for Obama.

    I think it’s insulting for anyone to say (or believe) African-Americans will stay home or vote against Obama due to his support of gay marriage. They may not love that he supports it, but they’re not going to vote against him on this one issue.

  77. 77
    Felinious Wench says:

    @Anoniminous:

    I’m cool with that.

    You shouldn’t be. That includes a lot of African-Americans. :)

    Edit: And Hispanics. In both demographics, ~87% are affiliated with a religion, the vast majority Christians.

    http://www.pewforum.org/A-Reli.....icans.aspx

  78. 78
    Shawn in ShowMe says:

    @Felinious Wench:

    I think it’s insulting for anyone to say (or believe) African-Americans will stay home or vote against Obama due to his support of gay marriage

    If you’re not insulting the intelligence of African-American voters, I understand the GOP revokes your membership.

  79. 79
    22over7 says:

    @Shawn in ShowMe:

    Shawn nails it. Fucking patriarchy, how does it work?

  80. 80
    David in NY says:

    @JayJohnstone: If I understand you correctly, I think you may not be right.

    Saying of all the poor and a good share of the “middle class”:

    “[M]y job is is not to worry about those people.”

    Not good for Mitt.

  81. 81
    muddy says:

    @japa21:

    Unlike what the current Evangelicals tell you, Christ himself (according to the Gospels (with the possible exception of John, the last one written) focused more on the works one did rather than some pronouncement of believe in Him.

    Beware the Pelagian Heresy!

  82. 82
    Walker says:

    @patroclus:

    The kingdom of heaven is better thought of as a real earthly group of communal believers rather than some sort of pie-in-the-sky utopia to which dead people go.

    And there is nothing in the New Testament that ever suggests that people go to the latter. Jesus always talked about the former, never the latter.

  83. 83
    Larv says:

    In my view, they dispel any tendency to see the Bible as a book that talks about us—it clearly grew out of a world so different from ours … Great for context.

    In a similar vein, I highly recommend the book “How to Read the Bible” by James Kugel. The author examines the major stories and parables from the bible and tries to put them in the context in which they were written, i.e. an ancient Semitic herding/agricultural society. He concludes that most of the biblical stories would have meant something quite different to their authors and original readers than their current interpretations by the major Judeo-Christian religions. Great book, if you don’t mind that anybody seeing you read it will assume you’re religious (I’m not).

  84. 84
    Felinious Wench says:

    @Shawn in ShowMe: “Same thing Hispanic and Italian hostility toward gays is based upon—machismo. Christianity is the cover story.”

    Well said.

  85. 85
    Anoniminous says:

    @Felinious Wench:

    It’s a question of numbers. Euro-Americans are 72% of the US population with 77% classifying themselves as Christian or 171,864,000. AAs are 12.6% or 39 million (and change) using the same percentage we get 30 million (and change.)

    So giving-up 30 million for 171.8 million seems a high-strategy payoff.

    :-)

  86. 86
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Schlemizel:

    So Hitler, who professed a belief in Jesus and the pedophile priests and all those Christian slave owners are in heaven today while Gandhi, Buddha and millions of aborigines who have harmed nobody are in Hell?

    Everyone you mentioned is in serious fucking afterlife trouble, because not one of them so much as whispered a “ramen” at the end of a sentence.

    Noodly appendages dipping them forever in boiling olive oil!

  87. 87
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Schlemizel: I am far from being a religious scholar, or even a religious person, but I always did find it odd that, as far as I could tell, the entire business of getting into Heaven was only ever determined at the end of the world — the Last Judgment and all that. And yet supposed believers kept carrying on as though Heaven was thickly populated right this very moment.

    BTW, isn’t the whole Shia/Sunni thing basically what would happen if some Christians decided that what Paul said didn’t really count as far as the tenets of the faith, and others said it totally did, and they kept arguing about it for centuries?

  88. 88
    Danack says:

    27% strikes again

    Thinking about recent attacks on U.S. embassies in the middle east, opinion of Romney’s comments on situation: 26% approve, 48% disapprove, 26% don’t know.

  89. 89
    danimal says:

    Ummmm, this may not be a popular comment, but it’s been noted in previous elections that some pastors play hard to get until (usually Democratic) campaigns donate to the local soup kitchen or fellowship hall building fund. Somehow ‘walking around money’ finds its way to the good reverend’s cause and the congregation receives a rousing, non-partisan non-endorsement. It’s all part of the dance, and it happens every 4 years. Obviously, there are Republican analogues to this phenomenom as well. Nothing to see here.

  90. 90
    Comrade Jake says:

    @bondirotta: my twitter feed is blowing up over Mitten’s remarks as well. How it isn’t a front page post by now is beyond me.

  91. 91
    Roger Moore says:

    @Culture of Truth:

    Which part of the new testament addresses this?

    I think it’s the part where Jesus talks about the terrible threat to marriage. No wait, that’s divorce, not teh ghey. Maybe it’s Matthew 7:3. No, more likely Matthew 7:1.

  92. 92
    gogol's wife says:

    @Comrade Jake:

    Yes, I keep sticking to the computer hoping one will start. TPM hasn’t hit on it yet either, although Daily Kos has.

  93. 93
    gogol's wife says:

    @Comrade Jake:

    Okay, Cole has one up now.

  94. 94
    22over7 says:

    @Comrade Jake:

    For the first time ever, I wish I were on the twitter. I was thinking, maybe the old, out-of-date iphone 4 would go on sale…

  95. 95
    ThresherK says:

    Tangent: I guess the best thing about having a black Protestant as my side’s standard-bearer is being spared whichever “non political” bishop whose job it is ride the Mitremobile to Fox News and tell America that “Democratic Candidate X is Not Worthy to Receive Communion”.

    (Said bishop, of course, has never heard of Rudy! or Newt.)

  96. 96
    Schlemizel says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: Apparently you are a conservative Pastafarian! I am of the reform, we don’t believe people are dipped in boiling olive oil! May you be touched by His Noodley Appendage rAmen

  97. 97
    Schlemizel says:

    @FlipYrWhig:
    I’m hardly a bible scholar, its just a hobby, if there are “jail house lawyers” then I guess I’d be a jail house preacher. The way some people like to analyze sports and argue for a team I like to deal with religion.

    My crude understanding is that it was a succession argument that caused the schism in Islam. One group wanted a descendant of Mohammad and the other wanted a different imam. I don’t remember what their religious differences were.

    There was a great episode of Cheers where Woody is set to marry this woman until he finds out she is the “wrong” type of Lutheran.
    Woody – “Ask her why she thinks the Book of Concord is not in line with the Scriptures!”
    Kelly – “Because it’s not.”
    Woody – “HERETIC !!!”

    Its over stupidity like that that millions have died

  98. 98
    Plantsmantx says:

    It was um…striking to read the quote from the black Southern Baptist preacher condemning some other black preachers for “betraying the black church”. The Southern Baptist church was almost as much of a cornerstone in the fight against black civil rights as the black church was a cornerstone in the fight for it.

  99. 99
    smith says:

    I know several African-Americans who aren’t thrilled with Obama supporting gay marriage, but they’re not pouting and staying home in November. They’re sticking with Obama even with their disagreement over gay marriage.

    The most recent polls that I’ve seen have African-American support for gay marriage at 59%-60%. That’s a pretty big number considering where it was a few years ago.

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