Stop the hate.
Welp, looks like it’s that time of year again! Time to blame the asshattery of a few hundreds Muslims on, like, 2.1 billion Muslims in the world, most of whom, I bet, have never not once burned an American flag.
First up? Newsweek. In the latest issue of Newsweek, Ayaan Hirsi Ali writes the cover story, and claims that radical Islam represents the mainstream of contemporary Islam. What evidence does she offer? None, of course! Just a personal anecdote to give her claims credibility. Besides, who needs evidence when one has a Muslim-y last name (like Kamal “Hillary Clinton is working with Islamists to shut down churches and synagogues” Saleem does) and can feed American wingnuts all the Islamophobia they need in digestible chunks.
After all, would a lady with the name Ali lie to you? She probably burnt some flags in her day, saw Jesus, and realized that here in America, we don’t burn flags — only Qu’rans.
Of course, she wouldn’t lie to you:
The Muslim men and women (and yes, there are plenty of women) who support — whether actively or passively — the idea that blasphemers deserve to suffer punishment are not a fringe group. On the contrary, they represent the mainstream of contemporary Islam.
And then there’s Joe Scarborough who went on a hate-filled rant about Muslims this morning, while Mika Brzezinski looked on blankly.
[read full-post at ABLC]
quannlace
That is not news. That is Mika’s M.O. every damn show. Can overly bleached hair cause brain damage?
Howard Beale IV
Not surprising to find Ali writing for Newspeak-after all, her hubby does too.
Comrade Jake
Ali is Niall Ferguson’s wife. Enough said.
Xecky Gilchrist
The Redoublechins are rapid-fire reiterating every dumb rightie hategasm of the last 40 years this summer, aren’t they.
Joel
Ayaan Hirsi Ali has gone through some pretty horrific experiences.
But this brings up that oft-misattributed Nietzsche quote:
Captain Haddock
Oh yes Newsweek, please explain how we can solve one of the most complex issues of our day in 3 pages of double spaced bullshit peppered with ads for allergy meds and cartoonish anti-depresants.
Sly
Speaking of assholes…
Shorter Mitt Romney: People who like Obama are all lazy freeloaders and I don’t want their vote.
Villago Delenda Est
@Comrade Jake:
Yup, that explains much.
Svensker
All of this stuff makes my heart hurt.
Felinious Wench
I stopped reading her a long time ago. Her experience with Islam has been horrible, I understand that, but she’s lost any objectivity as a result.
Or, what Joel said. :)
Golfina
I think visible Muslims, abetted by their governments, all over the Middle East went on a hate filled rant against the US over the last several days. Obviously, all Muslims cannot be blamed for the acts of some, but the issue is that the behavior we are witnessing on TV is insane by the standards of the civilized world. The sane Muslims must step up and stop those who are crazy. I did not think Joe’s “rant” was hate filled – I thought it represented what I suspect a huge majority of Americans believe. There is no way to deal with crazy people who kill because of a youtube movie – but we have no choice. We have to try to find a way so that if they want to kill, they don’t kill Americans.
LE
I’m going to be completely honest and ask this question because I genuinely don’t understand: WHY do SOME Muslims SEEM to riot and turn violent and take to the streets after every little offense? Obviously every religion in the world has these nuts, but it’s not at the same level or regularity as Muslims. I’m not trolling or baiting, I honestly just don’t understand.
Joel
I also think that this video is appropriate as well.
Frankly, the wingnut rage machine went into full gear before any of the facts filtered through, so it’s unsurprising that Newsweek had copy ready for the presses almost instantaneously.
some guy
Professor Khalil explains her best:
“Now I knew what it was like to be a combatant in the clash of civilizations. Having renounced Islam and openly criticized its political manifestations, I was condemned to a life cordoned off from the rest of society.” Who condemned you? People don’t know who you are, for potato’s sake. I feel sorry for Ali: she is obsessed clearly with Salman Rushdi (as you can tell from this piece) and she hoped that she would generate as much controversy and reaction as he did, but she failed. Instead, she weaves a tale from her imagination in which she is portrayed as this ex-Muslim who is chased by the savage believers around the world. Open the window and take a deep breath, damn it. I mean, I read the Arabic press daily and I watch Arabic TV and I have never ever encountered your name. Wait: is your name, Angelina Jolie? Because I hear that name a lot in Arabic TV.
one of his commenters notes she is also a Breveik sympathizer.
Villago Delenda Est
@Xecky Gilchrist:
They have to. If the lose again to the ni*CLANG*, FSM knows what will happen to them. Pull out all the stops, commit the reserve vats of hate, throw in the kitchen sink. It’s do or die a thousand deaths in a totally socia1ist Amerika with brown-skinned thugs everywhere demanding your papers, now, shithead, if your skin is white and your hair is blond.
some guy
http://www.loonwatch.com/2012/06/thinkprogress-the-american-enterprise-institutes-islamophobia-problem/
trollhattan
#MuslimRage evidently has blown up (heh) in Newsweek’s face. Tina fail.
http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/09/newsweeks-muslimrage-backfires.html
Chris
@Joel:
Yes, she did. So did Ayn Rand.
But you can always find a way that horrific movements had “reasons” for doing what they did (Tali = Soviet invasion, communists = corrupt dictatorships and fascist invasions, Ku Klux Klan and NSDAP = economic disaster). AHA has more of a right to be mad than some mouth breather in Kentucky, but she’s still dead wrong and the ideas she’s spreading are still a fucking poison.
(So, pretty much your Nietzsche quote).
FlipYrWhig
@Comrade Jake: Whoa, I had NO IDEA about that… I suppose any child of theirs will be on the staff at National Review within moments of the cutting of the umbilical.
I Am Mitt's Smirk (né Studly Pantload, t.e.u.u.)
@Sly: Can’t see the vid at work, but Josh Marshall at TPM took time off from the Rosh HaShanah holiday (L’Shana Tova, y’all!) to emphatically state just how big of a huge, steaming pile Mittens has stepped into with this passage.
Looks like I picked the wrong election cycle to give up popcorn.
Anya
Guess what, I am half Somali and I’ve never heard a single Somali relative mentioning her name. No one but Tina Brown and her crew cares about Hirsi- Ali. She lied about her life experience and embellished alot. She also blames fucked up family dynamics that are universal on religion. She has no credibility and the only reason she’s considered a “scholar” with her polyscie BA is because she bashes Muslims, thus making bigots comfortable with their bigotary.
LanceThruster
@LE:
I would say it is a fair question. I think it has to do with comparative periods different religions dealt with their own Enlightenment period. It wasn’t that long ago that xristians would treat blasphemers and heretics with equally murderous fervor. Islam still needs to go through that enlightenment period. Xristians did not give up the power willingly, it was wrested from them.
I suppose supporting Islamic moderates can help to bring that about, but to demonize them in a blanket fashion would, in my mind, only cause them to circle the wagons. I think the best way to support such reform is for secular institutions to show that everyone’s sacred cows are fair game and for religionists to learn to deal with it.
But it has to start on a small scale, and we have to be consistent and fair. There are certain xristian sects (Dominionists) that would bring back all the OT punishments if they could (thank goodness they have not regained that power).
Thomas F
ABL, I don’t agree with most of her views, but you evidently know very little of the life of Ayaan Hirsi Ali. She has lived a far more arduous life than you have and achieved far, far more in the face of life-threatening adversity.
There is more than a faint whiff of know-nothing ignorance in this post. Educate yourself before you speak next.
poco
@trollhattan: Yeah, been reading that on twitter and laughing uncontrollably.
ABL: That was one righteous post and I am so glad you wrote it!!
LanceThruster
@LanceThruster:
To continue on this theme, if religionists want other religionist extremists to settle the fvck down, they need to show that their god(s) can take it and to not get their knickers in a twist (Piss Christ anyone?).
It would also give the non-religious within their cultures something to gravitate towards. When I was atheist adviser to the student group, I marveled at the kids who came from a sectarian country, culture, or family, who were relieved to be able to reject theism openly, yet still hid this aspect of their worldview from their parents/home community.
We need to support freethought/religious tolerance in all its forms. Separation of religion/state is/should always be an American value.
Get it off the money and out of the pledge to show we walk the walk.
Mnemosyne
@Golfina:
I think you answered your own question right in your first sentence:
There are a lot of places in the Middle East where the governments find it much more convenient to turn the rage that their people have towards an outside force (the United States) to make sure they don’t realize that the US isn’t oppressing them, their own government is.
Syria has an ongoing (if low-level) civil war going on. So does Sudan. And Pakistan. The people in charge of those countries would far prefer to have the people burn off their rage at a distant target than risk having those people turn on them.
And, frankly, I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of people in those countries also prefer turning their ire on an outside force rather than deal with the massive problems inside their countries. Revolutions are hard, and they make life suck for a whole lot of people for a long time afterwards, even when they’re relatively peaceful as in Tunisia.
lumpkin
I think some of y’all are forgetting that teh US has gone on many hate-filled rampages and killed a lot of people because they are muslim. Was it right? NO. Is it right when muslims go on hate-filled rampages in retaliation? NO. I guess we are going to just keep killing them until they give up killing us. Well, that’s what they think too.
Mnemosyne
@Thomas F:
Sorry, but having bad things happen to you doesn’t give you a lifelong pass to say and do whatever you want. Some people are able to grow and mature after horrible experiences, like Elie Weisel or Nelson Mandela did, but some people become bitter and can never move past what happened to them. Ali is pretty clearly one of the latter.
I realize this is a difficult concept for conservatives to understand since you thought W’s conversion at the age of 40 after being a lifelong drunk gave him a free pass to stampede into other countries because FREEDOM!!
Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God
@LanceThruster:
This. Islam is the youngest of the Three Siblings, and it’s about 600 years or so ‘behind’ Christianity as a religion (‘behind’ in scare quotes because it’s obviously more complex than this).
Imagine if Pope Urban II had had access to nukes, all the mischief he would likely have gotten up to.
BTW, these periodic global flare-ups over who has the most awesomest imaginary friend ever are getting really fucking tiresome. I’m going to go eat some tater tots in protest.
LanceThruster
I have an autographed copy of Ibn Warriq’s “Why I Am Not A Muslim.”
Met him at a CFI convention. He, like Ms. Ali, knows the dangers of rejecting Islam. When I was part of a panel on religion at my campus, I opened by saying that in another part of the globe, or another time, I could be murdered, tortured, jailed, punished, ostracized, fired, or otherwise abused for my non-belief/disbelief and thanked them for including me in the discussion.
This needs to be the default position worldwide. That is an American value worth exporting, not the Ann Coulter insanity of convert them or kill them.
I’d like there to be a little welcome card on file, available to anyone joining the human family explaining that though they may have been indoctrinated due to the circumstances of their birth, that they were free to choose their own worldview regardless, and held full membership in the human family. It would be pointed out that they were loved and valued unconditionally and were welcomed to contribute to the betterment of the family on man. Point out that in fact everyone’s input was needed.
I find that preferable to the toxic tribalism we currently exhibit.
LanceThruster
@Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God:
I AM TATERTOTACUS!
Lyrebird
@trollhattan: I’m glad to hear this, and I want to join the “Newsweek — FOR SHAME!” movement. I also want to be as funny as Julianne Smolinsky:
srv
I’m sure getting rid of the last secularists in power in the ME will fix this feature right up.
If you have a couple of centuries on your hands.
Lyrebird
@Thomas F: I agree that Hirsi went through living hell. Not the sort of thing to make light of, even if I were better at comedy. I also find more than a whiff of condescension in your advice to ABL, but maybe you were going for deep snark?
Phoenician in a time of Romans
@LE:
I’m going to be completely honest and ask this question because I genuinely don’t understand: WHY do SOME Muslims SEEM to riot and turn violent and take to the streets after every little offense? Obviously every religion in the world has these nuts, but it’s not at the same level or regularity as Muslims. I’m not trolling or baiting, I honestly just don’t understand.
Well, there are several reasons why this might be:
i, Islam is a source of identity for people who lack strong alternative identities. A person might consider themselves more a member of the umma of believers than a Libyan or Syrian. Consider, when your country was insulted with the 911 attacks, you had people literally killing Muslims or people they thought were Muslim to avenge that insult, and burning an American flag in public can start a brawl.
ii, Islam hasn’t gone through an Enlightenment. Another way of putting that is that Islam is still a strong vital religion which has yet to have the power drained out of it with a mass rationalist undermining of its foundations.
iii, Protesting insults against Islam are a way to express rage for a people who would otherwise be brutally repressed for political displays. It helps that the Great Satan oppressing Islam is also the same superpower throwing its weight around and supporting those repressive regimes.
Thomas F
@Lyrebird: There is a bigoted, know-nothing undercurrent running throughout ABL’s post. I wanted to highlight the irony of that phenomenon in a post ostensibly condemning ignorant bigotry. Rather than kind-hearted or tolerant, it epitomizes smug self-satisfaction purchased on the cheap. It is an embarrassing display by ABL, of which she should be ashamed.
@Mnemosyne: Even a momentary gander through the intertubes would enlighten you as to Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s temperament — “bitter” is not only inapt, it is downright offensive. She overcame stultifying childhood oppression, educated herself, and became an elected legislator in the Dutch parliament. Only to be hunted on a daily basis for the crime of expressing her opinion on the religion of her upbringing, after her friend was butchered in broad daylight for expressing his (I sense a trend?). She is a rigorous thinker who has composed more than one serious-minded tract outlining her views. But you certainly have her nailed as a “bitter” person who had “bad things happen” to her.
You seem, like ABL, to enjoy wallowing in your ignorance.
Freddie deBoer
Thanks, very much, for this.
Tara the Antisocial Social Worker
Every time Newsweek does a dumb cover story, I have the same thought:
“Newsweek still exists?”
(Hey, at least they varied the cover from their usual mock-pron look.)
Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God
@LanceThruster:
Blasphemer!
Fortunately (for both of us), the Mighty Potato God is not offended by Blasphemers. Because He is, after all… just a potato.
mai naem
Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s also married to Niall Ferguson. BTW, it sounds like they were having an affair before Ferguson got divorced his now ex-wife and married her. More family values Republicans.
srv
@Thomas F: But they are just like us.
You didn’t think the enlightened actually got Said, did you?
Ruckus
@LE:
Look where the one’s rioting live. A lot more poverty than you’ll see here. A lot higher permanent unemployment rate, with no expectation that it will change. An awful lot of truth in the US is an imperialistic country out to steal their oil. And silence their religion. That’s not the government position but it would be if mittshit gets elected. Take the article mentioned in this post. Do they know that a lot of us don’t agree with it? No? Are there some of their leaders who agree with it and push that agenda? Yes.
It’s a crappy world and all we can do is try to be better.
Ken Pidcock
Egypt’s Prime Minister Hisham Qandil:
I’m afraid you will find that position – that freedom of expression should be limited when the expression could be regarded as blasphemous – to be quite popular among moderate Muslims. Some time ago, I attended a Salman Rushdie lecture where a couple of distinguished and polite gentlemen kept trying to press this point. And I don’t think I have to point out to BJ readers that this is an exceedingly dangerous position.
Those who find it convenient to dismiss Ayaan Hirsi Ali should at least acknowledge that she knows rather more about the scope of the oppression than do most of us.
Rushdie:
Some Loser
So we are just going to blame it on their culture and religion, right?
You guys do know the condition these people live in right? You do know America does a lot of damage in the Middle East and Asia, the part of the world where the majority of Muslims live. You do know that they have more than just religious reasons to be angry and lash out right?
You guys do realize the “Enlightenment” argument is bullshit. Most Muslims in more stable areas are perfectly well-adjusted. They don’t riot at a drop of the hat, and they don’t kill people for hurting their feelings.
What is with the ignorance? It has little to do with their culture or religion. They live in shitty, unstable conditions that are usually at least partially perpetrated by Western powers particular the United States. Even worse, the majority of Muslims in these shitty conditions don’t even riot. You blaming the majority of them for the works of the minority. A lot of these people are too busy being beaten down and suppressed by militant fanatics. It’s like getting angry at gays because of Log Cabin Republicans.
Please, please stop these paternalistic comments.
Anya
@Thomas F: Maybe you should watch this documentary.
Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a smarter version of “Ex-terrorists turned Christian evangelists.” Her story is more sympathetic and believable because she’s a woman and it’s easier to believe that an ex-Muslim woman was abused and forced into marriage than an ex-Muslim terrorist turned evangelists.
She’s nothing but an opportunist who’s gained fame and status because being prejudiced against Muslims is acceptable in the West.
ETA: You seem to be accussing everyone of not knowing anything about Ms. Ali, when in reality you’re the one who does not know anything about her. Ms. Ali went to the best school in Nairobi where she finished her high school. Get your facts before you lecture other people.
Mnemosyne
@Thomas F:
Dude, you have just claimed that Ali has had it worse than Nelson Mandela, who was imprisoned and beaten by his own government for 30 years.
Think that through for just a minute there. Really, you think Ali has suffered more than Nelson Mandela so therefore it’s okay for her to seek revenge on the people who wronged her, unlike the course Mandela chose? Theo van Gogh’s murder was worse than Steven Biko’s murder so of course she would be more bitter than Mandela?
Matt McIrvin
So far, while a bunch of people have died in these riots (some of them rioters killed by security forces), as far as I know the total American death toll is four, and those people were killed not necessarily because of the Youtube video but in what was probably an unrelated 9/11 anniversary raid by the local al Qaeda franchise (granted, that still ties into violent Islamism).
Meanwhile, a heck of a lot of Americans, most of them likely either Christian or secular, have been going on mass shooting rampages over the past couple of years, motivated by imagined grievances or the voices in their heads. I’d say that for Americans this is the more immediate safety concern.
Mnemosyne
@Ken Pidcock:
I guess you missed the multiple bomb threats that happened to movie theaters that tried to show “The Last Temptation of Christ,” the museum that tried to show Chris Ofili’s work, the museum that showed “Piss Christ,” etc. etc.
Thomas F
@Mnemosyne: My friend, please re-read my response and locate where I said that Hirsi Ali suffered through more than Mendela. Good lord, I didn’t even imply a comparison between them. You are doing heavy combat with strawmen.
I don’t take it that you deny that she endured unjustified terror at the hands of jihadist Muslims. Just because you dislike the lessons she has drawn from that experience does not entitle you to denigrate her suffering (which is precisely what you were doing — unlike you, I can and will quote your words back at you).
Hirsi Ali’s thesis is the following: Islam, as it is currently constituted, is structurally disposed toward murderous violence and the oppression of minorities in a way no other organized religion currently is. That of course is a different assertion than alleging that every Muslim is so disposed. Nevertheless, her opinions, grounded in empirical experience, run counter to the bien pesant views of complacent Western liberals such as yourself. Again, you may be correct, but you are obligated to address your cognitive dissonance in ways that don’t involve minimizing her unjustified oppression.
gloryb
I’ll throw this out here too:
My father grew up in a time and place where white Americans, at a whiff if some rumor, would go to black people’s houses, drag them out, lynch them and take pictures to use for post cards.
But no one blames all white Americans for this, even though black people wondered why they didn’t speak up.
So, let’s discuss how far someone can evolve in a short period of time and be a bit more hopeful for the rest of the world.
Matt McIrvin
Correction, six: two more deaths in Afghanistan.
Suffern ACE
@Some Loser: Thank you. I don’t even know where to start. Muslims are scary. Muslims aren’t enlightened. “Arab winter” (get it?). Garrgh.
We had such hopes that Tunis would be indistinguishable from Des Moines by now.
Gus
@lumpkin: Except this was in response to a fucking Youtube video. A really shitty one at that.
LanceThruster
@Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God:
Thank you for extending his tuberrific mercy.
I saw it more as a statement of unity with the Almighty Spud.
As those around Spartacus signaled their oneness in his mission by declaring themselves as the leader being mercilessly hunted by the Romans as a means of defending him, I too declare my my dedication to his crispy, starchy, savory seasoned goodness.
I am, indeed, Tatertotacus!
LanceThruster
@Some Loser:
I don’t see how discussion of the Enlightenment is somehow not applicable. Modern day xians have killed when performing exorcisms (pretty barbaric), but we generally don’t ascribe those acts to all of xianity (even though the RCC still deals with exorcisms).
I don’t think anyone was concerned that the Movie “Dogma” would cause murderous riots because of the irreverent “Buddy Christ.” “Life of Brian” was condemned (often unseen), but the violence that one might not be surprised by if a similar mocking tone was taking towards Islam or their prophet was not present.
I see the main aspects of the Enlightenment is that people might reject your religion (or any/all elements), openly challenge/reject your god(s)/holy figures/sacred texts, and you are no longer allowed to murder/torture/incarcerate them (though you may damn and/or excommunicate apostates to your hearts content).
ALL Muslims need to join the modern world in this regard. Enlightenment/reform involves this outlook. They need to embrace at some point the separation of religion and state (as we need to reaffirm our own commitment to such). This will be quite a hurdle, but at some point, seem natural for a person to be free to choose their own faith practice (reform means some adjustment to the notion that all are born Muslim, but some become apostates with dire penalties for same).
If Islam wishes to survive without being a regressive force, it needs to come to terms that some people may talk smack about it it.
Deal with it.
KS in MA
@Mnemosyne: Well said.
Hypnos
Arabs resorted to radical Islam because they tried secularism and it failed. Look it up – it’s called the Six Day War. Look up Nasser. Look up the PLO – it was a Marxist, secular organization.
Arab Muslims particularly, but Muslims more in general, tried to engage with the West from a secular standpoint, and they go crushed. Mossadeq is another case in point.
Radical Islam is the political response of a people who have been crushed by their enemies time and time again and have lost all faith in their secular institutions – the only thing that still gives them an identity in which they can have pride is the transcendental.
And to add insult to injury, this is the second time it happens. Islam already had its Enlightenment – it’s called the Islamic Golden Age. Look up the Mu’tazila. Then like now, this resurgence was crushed by external invasion, the epitome of which came in Baghdad in 1258. Funny, how history rhymes that way.
As for how other religions have supposedly outgrown this, Catholics and Protestants have been killing each other in Northern Ireland until 1998. There is a lot of violence in African Christian communities. Hindus regularly lynch Muslims. And it seems to me there’s a lot of rioting and burning down of shit going on right now in China. Not to mention 2011 London.
cumar
cumar
@ LanceThruster “They need to embrace at some point the separation of religion and state.” Right but the issue is much more complex than that. The separation of religion and politics in Somali traditional law is broader and about thousand years older than the Western separation of church and state. I think a lot of socio-economic issues should be properly addressed before political overhaul can bring about a satisfactory change….
http://dailyanarchist.com/2011/11/16/the-law-according-to-the-somalis/comment-page-1/#comment-81037
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xeer