Is Gary Johnson the Reason Mitt Romney Is Talking About Birth Certificates?

Neither a racist nor panderer be.

20120824-130505.jpgMitt Romney’s racist birther comments make no sense unless viewed as an attempt to pander to his base. But why would Romney need to be pandering to his base this late in the election? The 27 percenters are never going to vote for Obama. He should have the crazification factor voters locked up by now. But maybe the Libertarians are pulling some of them towards Gary Johnson?

Here’s an August 13 press release from the Libertarian Party in which they demand that the major polling outfits begin including Gary Johnson in state presidential polls:

Gov. Gary Johnson Could Cost Romney 5 Battleground States, 74 Electoral Votes Needed to Win in 2012

“2-Term Governor Gary Johnson’s Votes in North Carolina, Virginia, Florida, Nevada, and Colorado Could Determine the Winner of the 2012 Presidential Election”

Libertarian Presidential candidate Gov. Gary Johnson is polling at 5.3% nationwide. (JZ Analytics/Washington Times).

But look at the numbers when he’s included in statewide polls against Obama and Romney. 13% in New Mexico. 9% in Arizona. 7% in Colorado. 7% in New Hampshire. 8% in Montana. (PPP and others)

Governor Johnson’s poll numbers – and his votes this November – may be the critical factor in “Tipping Point” or battleground states like North Carolina, Virginia, Florida, Nevada, and Colorado – where Obama and Romney are 1% to 6% apart. Mitt Romney needs these 5 states, these 74 Electoral votes to win the White House.

North Carolina and Virginia voted Republican 7 out the last 8 Presidential races. Florida and Colorado voted Republican in 6 out of the last 8. Nevada voted Republican in 5 out of the last 8. All 5 of these battleground states voted for Barack Obama in 2008.

Zogby, Rasmussen, Gallup, CNN/Opinion Research, New York Times, Washington Post, LATimes, ABC, and CBS Polling Organizations all KNOW that 3% or 6% or 9% of the vote for Libertarian Presidential candidate Gov. Gary Johnson in these states could easily cost Romney 74 Electoral Votes – and the 2012 Presidential election.

Starting now, these organizations need to include 2-Term Governor Gary Johnson in all state Presidential polls – especially in these 5 “Romney Must Win” battleground states.

Gary Johnson was a 2-Term Republican Governor of New Mexico (1995-2003). During his 8 years in office, he vetoed over 750 bills – more than all other governors combined. He was repeatedly recognized and honored as the “most fiscally conservative Governor in America.”

Zogby, Rasmussen, Gallup, CNN/Opinion Research, New York Times, Washington Post, LATimes, ABC, and CBS Polling: Include Libertarian Presidential candidate Gov. Gary Johnson in all national and state Presidential polls. Show us the full picture.

[read full post at ABLC]






122 replies
  1. 1
    eric says:

    When he starts talking about going “back to gold,” that is when we know the true crazy train has left the station.

  2. 2
    fester says:

    Severely doubt that Johnson will get 2% or more as he is perforing the role of most 3rd parties in August… a safe place for disgusted partisans to register their disgust at their home party’s candidate. Most of his supporters will either vote Romney or stay home.

  3. 3
    Alex S. says:

    Friends don’t let friends use Zogby polls, or Washington Times polls.

  4. 4
    Davis X. Machina says:

    This happens every go-round, on one side or the other.

    Those 9% and7% numbers will shrink as the days get shorter. Johnson gets 2%, 3% tops. In the end, the Gary-curious come home, and vote GOP. There’s too much at stake, times are too parlous, to dink around with third parties.

    I mean, have you seen who’s in our I-do-mean-White House?

  5. 5
    mamayaga says:

    @eric: Isn’t that a case of Charlie Pierce’s “five-minute rule”? If you listen to a libertarian talk, it makes a lot of sense for the first five minutes. After that, it all goes off the rails and reveals the true crazy, usually in talk about the gold standard.

  6. 6
    Scamp Dog says:

    The full article mentions that Johnson’s doing well in Colorado, where I live. If I weren’t already spending time canvassing for the Obama campaign, I’d be tempted to do some rat-fncking and “help” the libertarians. Go, Gary, Go!

  7. 7
    Ann Rynd says:

    The more libertarian voters who learn about Ryan’s disavowal of Ayn Rand, the more likely they will want to go elsewhere to waste their votes. Libertarians tend not to like religion, big defense budgets, backstabbers. The Ryans and Romneys are really distasteful to them.

  8. 8
    Calouste says:

    @Davis X. Machina:

    2-3% would still flip North Carolina to Obama.

  9. 9
    beltane says:

    I wasn’t aware of the Gary Johnson angle but the GOP is certainly very worried about Ron Paul followers disrupting the festivities.

  10. 10
    amk says:

    @Davis X. Machina: You seem cocksure about those percentages you throw around freely. Got anything to back them up ? The rethugs will always vote rethugs doesn’t cut it since they didn’t in 2008.

  11. 11

    Is it possible Romney just says dumbass stuff?

  12. 12
    Zifnab says:

    @Davis X. Machina:

    In the end, the Gary-curious come home, and vote GOP. There’s too much at stake, times are too [parlous] perilous, to dink around with third parties.

    You only need to revisit Florida circa 2000 to know a few thousand votes can swing a national election. Buchanan caused Bush as much grief as Nader caused Gore, but we don’t like to talk about it because Bush won 5-4.

    And Mitt Romney doesn’t have George Bush’s charisma. There’s no reason to believe plenty of conservatives won’t register a protest vote against Romney this cycle, even in swing states. Certainly, the Libertarians are looking at this election as a ripe year. Everyone hates Congress. Obama isn’t overwhelmingly popular anymore, and Romney’s a dud. Conservatives are galvanized but they don’t have a Hermann Cain or a Newt Gingrich to demagogue for them.

    Johnson is exactly the kind of spoiler that can really injure Romney, if his campaign continues to hobble along through election day.

  13. 13
    Ann Rynd says:

    @Davis X. Machina:
    I don’t see libertarians as racist.

  14. 14
    butler says:

    @Calouste: It would also be 3-5 times as big as the libertarian vote in NC last time around.

  15. 15
    Tuffy says:

    Gary Johnson will steal as many kooky goldbugs from Romney has he will steal pot-head college kids from Obama.

  16. 16
    Wag says:

    @Calouste:

    Colorado, as well.

  17. 17
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    OvenMitt has no choice.

    He must continuously pander to the cretinous, racist base, or he’ll lose them to some third party, not necessarily Johnson. Perhaps the loons of the “Natural Law” party or one of the other bizarre fringe outfits for those who are not satisfied with the crazy in the GOP.

  18. 18
    kindness says:

    I smell a Ross Perot scenerio.

    We should organize donations to him.

  19. 19

    Romney’s path to victory has always been problematic.

    Gary Johnson puts New Mexico out of reach.

    Virgil Goode means Romney probably has little chance of winning Virginia.

    Jill Stein and the Socialist guy might pull some votes from Obama, but Romney is at higher risk of losing more of his base to Johnson and Goode than Obama is to losing votes to Stein and Stewart.

  20. 20
    Katharsis says:

    This smells to me like a way to once again delegitimize Obama. Perhaps some can see that Mitt rymes with sh… and come this november, if you can’t win then maybe you can take the majority of the vote away from the inevitable reelection of Obama and bitch about that. Same thing happened to Clinton with Perot.

  21. 21
    Bokonon says:

    Let’s see if the Romney campaign starts saying that Gary Johnson was really born in Venezuela, and that his birth certificate is fake. And that Johnson was once overheard saying “boy howdy, I sure do love paying federal income taxes”.

    And then having independent PAC groups attack him.

    Then we will know that the Romney people serious. By their choice of tactics.

  22. 22
    Hawes says:

    Romney is a dick. It’s really pretty simple

  23. 23

    @Tuffy:

    Gary Johnson will steal as many kooky goldbugs from Romney has he will steal pot-head college kids from Obama.

    Nah. Those are the kids who wouldn’t bother to put down the bong to vote without someone like Johnson running.

  24. 24
    Davis X. Machina says:

    @Ann Rynd: There are exactly 14 real libertarians out there. The rest are embarrassed Republicans. The secret ballot is not Gary Johnson’s friend.

    And parlous is a perfectly cromulent word.

  25. 25
    General Stuck says:

    I think the gloves are just about completely off, and the only moderating factor will be calculated solely on the rate of potential blowback, for crawling the sewer to GOP victory.

    We are only in the pre game warmups now, with both teams being introduced to the meat eating crowds, and replete with sophomoric catcalls and the like.

    The wingnuts may be, and are livid to get Obama out of the WH, and a big chunk, if not all the true believer base will crawl over many shitpiles to accomplish that goal. But here is the thing. The GOP, when you look past the propping up via their impressive media machine, and largely cowed MSM, they are several tribes with very disparate needs and wants, that are stuck together with the shakiest of shaky pudding, right now.

    They are only a spark away from having the next internal meltdown over this or that nugget of offense, from unauthorized farts in the tiniest of tents, to begin with. And the liberatarian wing is currently second seat trying to pilot the wingnut mothership to safe harbor and victory.

    It is not only Gary Johnson, who has a bizarre charm about him, as does Big Daddy Ron Paul who runs that crazy wing of the GOP. And Paul has managed to wrangle a kind of devotional shit parade for his self at the convention, so he and his quantum nutters don’t burn it all down. And true wingnut conservatives actually despise the Paulites nearly as much as Obama and dems.

    And Romney has the dubious job of trying to keep the animals from feeding on each other long enough to vote in big numbers, and work together enough to maybe win. It is like sitting atop a keg of Nitroglycerin that can’t be bounced around too much or, BOOM.

    Mitt wants to win in the worst way, and will whore himself out to the whims of these loony assholes, and try not to screw the pouch in the process, by going way over the line, even for a republican. Maybe he can pull it off, but I doubt it when things approach the critical mass of voting day.

    Democrats are a well behaved kindergarten class in comparison, that sometimes chunk a spitball at one another, but mostly get along. Mostly.

  26. 26
    Chris says:

    The right wing is Nadering itself? Oh, HAPPY DAY!!!!!

  27. 27
    Brachiator says:

    @Ann Rynd:

    The more libertarian voters who learn about Ryan’s disavowal of Ayn Rand, the more likely they will want to go elsewhere to waste their votes. Libertarians tend not to like religion, big defense budgets, backstabbers. The Ryans and Romneys are really distasteful to them.

    Reason Magazine and Ron Paul glibertarians have happily rolled over for the Republicans since the reign of Dubya. They pretty much kept quiet about Iraq and if you ask them about keeping religion out of an individual’s private affairs, they’re response is always, “Well … hey look over there. We want to legalize drugs.”

    And oh yeah, Ayn Rand was pro choice:

    An embryo has no rights. Rights do not pertain to a potential, only to an actual being. A child cannot acquire any rights until it is born. The living take precedence over the not-yet-living (or the unborn).
    __
    Abortion is a moral right—which should be left to the sole discretion of the woman involved; morally, nothing other than her wish in the matter is to be considered. Who can conceivably have the right to dictate to her what disposition she is to make of the functions of her own body?

    A Rand thumping libertarian cannot rationally be a Republican.

  28. 28
    burnspbesq says:

    Romney is talking about birth certificates so more people don’t catch on to this.

    http://www.analogplanet.com/co.....-elpee-set

  29. 29
    Soylent Green says:

    OT, but fabulous: http://www.onetermmore.com/video.html“One Term More”

  30. 30

    @beltane: the GOP is certainly very worried about Ron Paul followers disrupting the festivities.

    My mom is heading for Tampa tomorrow (weather permitting, I suppose) as a backup delegate, and she’s expecting the Paul contingent to make the week “interesting.” From her perspective as a longtime GOP loyalist, the Paulbots are mostly big talkers with no real experience in political campaigns or clear idea of how a political party works.

  31. 31
    Ann Rynd says:

    One of the Koch brothers was on the Libertarian ticket (vp) in 1980. They’re still interested in helping the party do well since it’s pro-business in a big way. Wouldn’t be surprised if some checks have Johnson’s name on them.

  32. 32
    Chris says:

    @Ann Rynd:

    The more libertarian voters who learn about Ryan’s disavowal of Ayn Rand, the more likely they will want to go elsewhere to waste their votes. Libertarians tend not to like religion, big defense budgets, backstabbers.

    The trouble with self-described “libertarians” is that it’s usually just an easy label people pick in order to stay aloof from ugly real world politics (lookit me, I’m smarter than all of them!)

    … but, when you take a closer look, it usually turn out that they’re just garden variety conservatives (“I really feel strongly that the government should stay out of my taxes!… but, yeah, I’m totally okay with DOMA and abortion bans”) or liberals (“I REALLY feel strongly that the government should deregulate pot and stay out of my sex life!… but, yeah, I’m totally okay with Social Security and Medicare).

    At least that’s my experience. Sure there’s real dedicated Paultards, Randroids and what-have-you, but they seem not to be the majority of self-professed “libertarians.”

  33. 33
    Culture of Truth says:

    I’m voting for Kodos.

  34. 34
    beltane says:

    Latest word is that Marco Rubio had to give up his prime-time speaking slot in favor of Ann Romney. While this will make Mrs. Romney happy, it is undoubtedly going to piss off some of the Miami Cubans who will see this as a slap in the face.

  35. 35

    @Bokonon: Let’s see if the Romney campaign starts saying that Gary Johnson was really born in Venezuela

    Well, come on, he’s from New Mexico, that’s not even a state.

  36. 36
    Tractarian says:

    It seems obvious to me that Johnson is more likely to take votes from Obama than Romney.

    Even though Johnson is a libertarian, he does not appear to be a hard right-winger. So, there’s little reason for extremely conservative voters to go for him instead of Romney. Indeed, from the perspective of those people, Johnson is missing Romney’s only quality: the ability to defeat Obama.

    On the other hand, I’m sure there are quite a few young, naive idealistic liberals out there who are “disappointed” with the President and wouldn’t mind showing some support for Johnson’s cannabis policies.

  37. 37
    Redneck Jeebus says:

    I wish Johnson would pull that much of the vote in, alas, I don’t think he will. My observations on Libertarians isn’t breaking any new ground, but if Republicans had any integrity whatsoever they would go all-out for Johnson simply because he’s not bullshitting us about what he believes.

  38. 38

    @Brachiator:

    Reason Magazine and Ron Paul glibertarians have happily rolled over for the Republicans since the reign of Dubya. They pretty much kept quiet about Iraq and if you ask them about keeping religion out of an individual’s private affairs, they’re response is always, “Well … hey look over there. We want to legalize drugs.”

    Not true- concerning Paul, anyway. He’s been down with religious establishment as long as it isn’t originated by the federal government. See: HR 300.

  39. 39
    penpen says:

    Does anyone have a link to a good explanation of all the “gold standard” stuff Paulites are obsessed with? I’ve never been able to wrap my mind around it and thus don’t understand why it is a sure sign of teh crazy.

  40. 40
    eric says:

    When someone tells me he is a libertarian, i say, oh and fuck you too.

  41. 41
    Ash Can says:

    I can definitely see an appreciable (albeit not large) number of wishy-washy GOP voters deciding Johnson’s the less odious white guy, and voting for him instead. Whether it actually tips any states remains to be seen, but it’s not implausible.

  42. 42
    Joel says:

    Gary Johnson probably doesn’t swing the race. He’s definitely going to be pulling the “High Times” share of Naderites, too. In other words, he’s pulling from both parties.

  43. 43
    jwb says:

    Really, this birther shit is all just another big distraction to get us to talk about something other than Mittwit’s finances. Let’s get back to talking about his tax returns and the Bain investments.

  44. 44

    @penpen:

    Because those people with the funny noses, clothes and hats are using fractional reserve banking to control the world!

  45. 45
    Mnemosyne says:

    I’m sure people are sick of me saying it, but there’s something hinky in their internal polling that has the Republicans freaking out. By this point, Romney should be swerving back to the center, but instead he’s moving further and further to the right, picking a running mate who wants to ban abortion and the Pill and now dipping his toe into the birther pool.

    I don’t know if this is the reason why, but there’s some polling out there somewhere that’s giving Republicans some very, very bad news about getting their base to turn out in November.

  46. 46
    sharl says:

    @burnspbesq: Ha, that looks… er, interesting. Also too, one of the commenters in the post you linked to found that it is available on-line as a series of mp3 files. Thanks, O clairvoyant ones at WFMU in 2007!

    ETA, just saw that there are also comments at the WFMU site. Since I can’t listen to any of that stuff now (um, yay?), the brave ones among those commenters may have some reviews to offer.

  47. 47
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    You know, speaking as someone whose path from Regan Republican to Obot when threw Libertarism; I find it really hard to believe someone who is a Libertarianism and not some Republican in hiding could stomach voting for Mitt and not just throw their vote way on Johnson in disgust. Lowering taxes for the just the rich, starting a war on porn and then marching off to war in Iran isn’t the Libertarian idea.

  48. 48
    gelfling545 says:

    @mamayaga: A young friend of mine who fancies himself a libertarian was ranting about how his “conscience” would not permit him to vote for Obama. Now I have know this lad since he was a child and his conscience has proved remarkably flexible in the past, but that’s another matter.

    He went on about how the media (probably controlled by the Dems & GOP who are exactly the same & in collusion) would never give the libertarian candidates enough coverage to make their candidacies viable. I told him that there was in all likelihood not ever going to be a successful presidential candidate who espoused the gold standard. His response was that sure there was that but …. as if it was just a charming foible.

  49. 49
    beltane says:

    @Mnemosyne: I do remember reading recently that Romney’s support among evangelicals is not terribly solid. These people really do not like or trust Mormons and the party establishment’s attempt to shut down Todd Akin’s campaign did not help Romney at all with his base.

  50. 50
    rlrr says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    I personally know some evangelical conservatives who have a big problem with Romney’s Mormonism…

  51. 51
    rlrr says:

    @beltane:

    And picking a Catholic running mate probably doesn’t help…

  52. 52
    ChrisNYC says:

    I’m with distraction as well. Has there been a day in this campaign, primary or general, where something Mitt Romney said made news in a way that has helped him? I don’t remember one. He made news today, reminded people he’s out there and managed not to make what is perceived to be a grave error. The birther thing doesn’t really help but our media has shown they think constant references to race are all in good fun and nothing to be at all ashamed about.

  53. 53
    DH says:

    Off topic, but I have a question for all tech BJ persons: I just went to to the Obama web page to make a contribution, and I was very surprised to see that without me even entering my name or email address I was showed the names of persons I know from my job who had liked the Obama campaign. Look I love Obama, but I really dont feel like sharing my political views with persons I work with. Does anyone here know what privacy bell or whistle I have to use on Facebook to block this?

    Thank You.

  54. 54
    JoyfulA says:

    And then there’s that former congressman (Virgil Goode?) who’s getting 8% of the Virginia vote, which is why Romney can’t win. Why have I read this only once, and “swing state polls” never mention him?

  55. 55
    beltane says:

    @rlrr: I thought for sure Romney would chose Bob McDonnell as his running mate, vaginal wand notwithstanding, as a way to cement his support among evangelicals. Either Romney was too stupid to do this or McDonnell was too smart to accept.

  56. 56
    penpen says:

    @Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): Is that what it boils down to, Protocols of the Elders type stuff?

  57. 57
    rlrr says:

    @DH:

    Were you accessing the page from work?

  58. 58

    @DH: If you haven’t “Like”d the Obama page, I expect your facebook friends aren’t going to see that you made the contribution. What you’re seeing there is an embedded widget that uses your logged-in facebook credentials to show you which of your friends have hit “Like” on the Obama page, on facebook. Your donation goes through an independent system with no visibility to facebook.

  59. 59
    RareSanity says:

    @Chris:

    … but, when you take a closer look, it usually turn out that they’re just garden variety conservatives (“I really feel strongly that the government should stay out of my taxes!… but, yeah, I’m totally okay with DOMA and abortion bans”) or liberals (“I REALLY feel strongly that the government should deregulate pot and stay out of my sex life!… but, yeah, I’m totally okay with Social Security and Medicare).

    I absolutely agree.

    Nick Gillespie is no more “libertarian” than Bill Maher. Gillespie is a standard issue conservative, and Maher is a run-of-the-mill liberal.

  60. 60

    The only person I know who says he’s supporting Gary Johnson is the RW troll who visits my place and claims Fox News is too liberal for him. And I’m pretty sure he’s not a real person.

    For some afternoon hilarity, try Yiddish Curses For Republican Jews. It’s pretty awesome.

  61. 61
    KG says:

    There’s been a couple of recent polls (going back to May) that suggest Johnson might make things much more difficult for Romney (Arizona, Tennessee, and Montana possibly in play). But for a third party candidate to have a real impact on a race, he has to have the ability to break through the noise. Not sure that Johnson has the ability (read: cash on hands) to actually do that. His latest report showed only $14k cash on hand. This strikes me mostly as Johnson trying to generate some attention for himself.

    Johnson is like Barr the last time around. He’s got a background that brings some legitimacy to the Libertarian ticket, but without the cash to get his message out, it still doesn’t mean much.

  62. 62
    General Stuck says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    I suspect what is freaking them out is the fact that nobody likes Romney, as compared to Obama in internals of polls. He is stuck in that under 40% ditch, and has really never gotten above 45 percent in overall preference over Obama for being president.

    It is very difficult to raise and maintain decent likeability numbers after they have sunk so low, that most pollsters, or a lot of them, think can be a death knell to a candidate, when they should have won on whatever the issue of the day was.

    So I think what is happening is the Romney campaign is vacillating between two main campaign strategies. One in which they concentrate on issues, taking the high road to get independents and some conservative dems, al la Reagan. And the other, a base only strategy that Rove and Bush made successful. But Rove has said, he couldn’t have won in 2004 without a very strong effort and turnout of the evangelical base. That viewed Bush as one of their own. Romney will have obvious difficulties with that. So Romney is back and forth with the Jekyll and Hyde personas, making people dislike him even more than they already do.

  63. 63
    karen marie says:

    @Cris (without an H): How does she justify being a Republican?

  64. 64
    Patricia Kayden says:

    I’m not quite understanding why Gary Johnson’s futile presidential run would push Romneybot 2.0 into birtherism. As the post correctly points out, The Bot already has the racist vote sewn up. Personally, I think The Bot is a nasty piece of work and made the birtherism “joke” to poke at President Obama. I don’t see him gaining (or losing) any votes because of it.

  65. 65
    R-Jud says:

    @Southern Beale:

    The only person I know who says he’s supporting Gary Johnson is the RW troll who visits my place and claims Fox News is too liberal for him. And I’m pretty sure he’s not a real person.

    Christ, doesn’t Doug J. ever work?

  66. 66
    sylvan says:

    @rlrr:

    I personally know some evangelical conservatives who have a big problem with Romney’s Mormonism…

    It must have been a quiet room.

  67. 67
    DH says:

    @rlrr: @rlrr:

    No, from my home IAir computer.

  68. 68
    RareSanity says:

    @penpen:

    You know that it is always like Alice in Wonderland when you try to “understand” conspiracy theories, especially right-wing ones.

    The gold standard stuff is basically saying that the root of all (economic) evil is due to fractional reserve banking. Goldbugs submit that the value of the dollar, should be pegged to the price of one ounce of gold. Similarly, the U.S. Government, should only be allowed to issue as many of those dollars, as the actual amount of gold that it possess.

    K-Thug has ripped this theory to shreds many times over, so you may want to look at some of his columns talking about it. But basically, if the gold standard is implemented, and rich people do what they do — hoard their money — then eventually there won’t be enough actual dollars in circulation to allow the country function.

  69. 69

    @Mnemosyne:

    there’s something hinky in their internal polling that has the Republicans freaking out. By this point, Romney should be swerving back to the center, but instead he’s moving further and further to the right, picking a running mate who wants to ban abortion and the Pill and now dipping his toe into the birther pool.

    While I don’t discount your insight, could it be that Romney is just a guy who says goofy stuff from time to time?

  70. 70
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Carl Nyberg:

    If by “from time to time” you mean “pretty much every time he opens his mouth,” then, sure. It’s possible that Mitt’s little birther joke just means that he genuinely thinks that the president is not really an American. Given that Romney’s sons are given to making birther comments in public, I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s a common topic of conversation in the family.

    I’m not sure why that would make it any better, though. As I was saying about Akin, honestly believing a lie doesn’t make the lie true. It just makes the person repeating the lie look even stupider than they did before they opened their piehole.

  71. 71

    @penpen:
    One of the articles of faith of the goldbuggers is that by pegging the valuation of everything to the value of gold it will eliminate the boom-bust cycle and provide more stability.

    One, the value of commodities fluctuate. This is true for gold too. So, it’s kinda a screwball idea that pegging everything to gold will eliminate fluctuations.

    Two, when the value of the dollar was pegged to gold, the economies boom and bust cycle was more disruptive than after implementing the federal reserve system.

    But the Ron Paul movement is more like a cult than a normal political movement. And showing the Paul worshipers facts doesn’t change their minds.

  72. 72
    RSA says:

    If you run your eye down the “Other” column in this breakdown of the popular vote per state in the 2008 Presidential election, you’ll see that only Montana and Utah had “Other” percentages above 3%. The mean “Other” is just 1.7%. Maybe that’ll make a difference, but it doesn’t seem likely.

  73. 73
    nastybrutishntall says:

    Libertarians are selfish, terrified loners who don’t want to engage with the world or society in any involuntary way. They also prefer ideological clarity, which leads their individualism to reject the regulation of social issues. Unless its abortion, because they’re all dudes. In other words, pro-pot Republicans.

  74. 74
    Chris says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    I’m sure people are sick of me saying it, but there’s something hinky in their internal polling that has the Republicans freaking out. By this point, Romney should be swerving back to the center, but instead he’s moving further and further to the right, picking a running mate who wants to ban abortion and the Pill and now dipping his toe into the birther pool.

    It might just be the fact that the teabagger base is SO fucking furious and unhinged since 2008 – and, as we’ve seen in most statewide primaries, a teabagger will always win over someone who’s perceived, rightly or wrongly, as a moderate. And that there therefore, Romney and the others are terrified to death that any move to the center is going to cost them more teabagger votes than the centrist ones they’ll pick up.

    I think that’s a miscalculation (most right wingers loathe Obama so much that they’ll hold their nose and vote for anyone with an R in front of his name – and besides, it’s better to lose right wing voters, who will just stay home, than moderate voters who’ll actually go over to your opponent). But remember that ever since Nixon they’ve been living by the creed that Angry White Conservatives are the only voters who matter. Maybe in fifty years and with the rise of the Wingnut Media Alternate Reality they all grew up in, it’s just become so internalized that they’re incapable of seeing the world in another way.

  75. 75
    Chris says:

    @RareSanity:

    From what I understand of the goldbugs, their contention is that our economy’s unstable because we’re basing our money on the arbitrary value assigned to pieces of paper or silver, when what we really should be basing it on is the arbitrary value assigned to pieces of gold.

  76. 76
    xian says:

    @Cris (without an H): wait, there’s a *new* Mexico?

  77. 77
    Chris says:

    @nastybrutishntall:

    In other words, pro-pot Republicans.

    Or Republicans trying to get laid.

  78. 78
    xian says:

    @DH: donations have to show employer

  79. 79
    RareSanity says:

    @Chris:

    True.

    I think that the expanded theory is that arbitrary = negative. Therefore, (negative X negative) = positive

    It’s all mathematical you see…

  80. 80
    The Moar You Know says:

    These election tossing results were gleaned from a Washington Times poll?

    ABL, it’s bad enough that all you do is copy and paste from your Google news feed, but to dump this steaming pile of shit here may be your lowest point in a “blogging” career that is nothing but low points.

  81. 81
    Epicurus says:

    And now the lying sack of crap is saying “it was just a little joke, not bashing Obama.” BULLSHIT! This man is so craven that he will lie about something he said THIS AFTERNOON. Please, please, please! Bitch, puleeze!! Just come out and say it, you bigoted prick…you don’t want one of “them” in the White House, do you? Talk about forked tongue…Willard seems to have a forked brain. I just can’t….

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18.....-at-obama/

  82. 82

    @DH:

    Does anyone here know what privacy bell or whistle I have to use on Facebook to block this?

    The “delete account and nuke the server it was stored on from orbit” button. I think that’s the only way of getting Facebook to respect your privacy.

  83. 83
    Caz says:

    Do you just make this stuff up because it’s fun or what? First of all, questioning Obama’s birthplace does not equal racist. I know to you, anyone who doesn’t support Obama is a racist, but that’s just liberal fantasy.

    Second, Gary Johnson has been a non-factor forever. He wasn’t in any debates, hardly any polls, no news show appearances, even on Fox, and most people don’t even know him. Most libertarians are going to vote for Romney. The rest will vote for who they’ll vote for regardless of anything anyone says. Libertarians are devoted and Romney talking about birth certificates isn’t going to change that.

    Do you have so little relevant stuff to talk about that you have come up with this crazy theory that Romney is talking about birth certificates to get the minority of libertarians who would otherwise vote for Gary Johnson??

    If you really believe the stuff you post, then you’re more out of touch with reality than I thought.

  84. 84
    Caz says:

    I’m glad I’m not as hateful and brainwashed and miserable as you fools. It must suck to be you. But I bet you love the little fantasy land in your head! So pathetic and out of touch. You don’t even realize when something is bad for the nation even when it’s thrown in your face. Useful idiots.

  85. 85

    @Carl Nyberg:

    One of the articles of faith of the goldbuggers is that by pegging the valuation of everything to the value of gold it will eliminate the boom-bust cycle and provide more stability.

    I think the bigger article of faith among the goldbugs is that switching back to the gold standard will drive the real value of gold through the roof, so people who have invested their portfolios in gold will make a killing. At the very least, the people who push the gold standard the hardest have also invested heavily in gold. If you don’t think they see profit there, I have a friend in Nigeria with a once in a lifetime business proposition to share with you.

  86. 86
    DH says:

    @xian:
    I realize that. What gets me is that Facebook just gives this info out to anyone. I understand that in 2045 no one will be able to run for President because of this, but I would like to do this donation without announcing it to the world.

  87. 87
    The Moar You Know says:

    Lotta blather on this thread about libertarians. Met a few over the course of my life.

    Not one is a “libertarian” (as if that were even definable). Every one of them is a Republican that, for one reason or another, is ashamed to admit it. They’ve voted Republican all their lives, they’ve donated to Republicans all their lives, and by some unbelievable coincidence they believe all the things Republicans believe except for pot being illegal.

    They’d have you believe that they’re against unfettered police power, but really start talking to them about it and you’ll find all that means is that they think whites should be able to do anything they want with the police’s blessing, like drive drunk, sell weed, and not pay child support (the three most common offenses of libertarians, big shocker), while blacks and browns should be sent straight to prison at any time because “they’re guilty of something”.

  88. 88
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Caz:

    First of all, questioning Obama’s birthplace does not equal racist.

    No? The president has shown two separate versions of his birth certificate, along with other supporting evidence, like the birth announcement that was published in the Honolulu newspaper along with the others at the same hospital that day.

    What, exactly, is the non-racist rationale for the desperate insistence by Republicans that Obama is not a “real” American in the face of the mountains of evidence proving otherwise?

    ETA: Though I do love how the guy who believes in the political equivalent of Bigfoot is calling us brainwashed. Projection today, projection tomorrow, projection forever!

  89. 89
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Caz:

    Also, Caz, have you figured out yet that since your hero Paul Ryan is proposing that the government ban most forms of the Pill, that means Republicans are trying to ban contraception? Or will you have some weasel way of claiming that because they’re not banning all forms of contraception, just the most effective ones, they’re not really trying to ban contraception at all?

  90. 90
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Really.

    The stupid of Caz. It burrrrrrrns!

  91. 91
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Southern Beale: Quite awesome indeed.

  92. 92
    sylvan says:

    @Caz:

    Gary Johnson has been a non-factor forever

    >Gary Johnson is a non-factor
    >Gary Johnson is the only one who gets it

    Pick one.

  93. 93
    Turgidson says:

    I’m convinced we have an aspiring performance artist on our hands. Could be DougJ, I suppose.

  94. 94
    Joey Maloney says:

    @rlrr:

    I personally know some evangelical conservatives who have a big problem with Romney’s Mormonism…

    Sure, but I can’t imagine it being bigger than their problem with Obama’s Nearism.

  95. 95
    Catsy says:

    @Caz:

    First of all, questioning Obama’s birthplace does not equal racist.

    And this, right here, is the only thing Caz has written that any sane person has to read in order to roll their eyes and ignore anything further from him.

    Context. We has it.

  96. 96
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Joey Maloney:

    My mom is not an evangelical, but she is very conservative, and I found out when we were visiting my parents last week that she’s now willing to admit that Obama is not a bad guy (though she still thinks our country should not be represented by Those People and we need a real (read: white) president again). Not only that, but she HATES Romney. Hates him, and part of it is because he’s a Mormon, and my parents have had some unpleasant business dealings with Mormons in Arizona.

    I really think the Republicans underestimated what kind of resistance they would get from conservatives over the whole Mormon thing, especially working-class conservatives (which is my mom’s background). They do not have a good reputation. At all.

    ETA: Occasionally needed clarification — my “mom” who I talk about in the present tense here is actually my stepmom of 30+ years, so she and I don’t have the same class background.

  97. 97
    Catsy says:

    @DH: Facebook blocker. The major browsers have some plugin or another to block those Facebook widgets that get embedded into almost every site.

  98. 98
    karen marie says:

    @Caz:

    First of all, questioning Obama’s birthplace does not equal racist.

    How do you know that Romney is not a racist? Provide one scintilla of evidence that he is not. You can’t.

    But let’s concede the point. What we’re left with is a person who goes out of his way to cater to and seek support from race-baiters and racists.

    Do you think that his behavior is in any way excusable?

  99. 99
    Yutsano says:

    @Catsy: Yesbut…only Caz is special enough to know DA TROOF!! And he’s so fucking special and superior he’s willing to slum among us icky libtartds to share DA TROOF!!

  100. 100
    Fluke bucket says:

    Neal Boortz was getting hysterical with his fellow libertarians for even considering Gary Johnson. Neal Boortz thinks that being anti-colonialist is being unamerican. His hatred of Obama is white hot.

  101. 101
    Mike in NC says:

    @Caz: You should take up drinking, heavily.

  102. 102
    dexwood says:

    @Cris (without an H):
    More a confederation of states of mind, that’s the NM I know and love.

  103. 103

    I dunno… the people I’ve heard mutter about voting for Gary Johnson are all leftist/liberal folks who are upset at Obama over foreign/military policy, and were thinking about voting for Ron Paul as an antiwar protest vote until they learned how repulsive he was, so they switched to Gary Johnson as sort of a blank placeholder.

    Though, honestly, I haven’t heard any of the disappointed Gary Johnson talk in months, so it may not be much of a live thing any more.

  104. 104

    @The Moar You Know:

    ABL, it’s bad enough that all you do is copy and paste from your Google news feed, but to dump this steaming pile of shit here may be your lowest point in a “blogging” career that is nothing but low points.

    What’s the point of leaving a comment like this? Seriously.

    Is this the kind of comment you want to be known for?

    ABL is a front page blogger at Balloon Juice. Deal with it.

    You are free to skip ABL. Why be pissy about it?

  105. 105
    Mike G says:

    @Ann Rynd:

    Libertarians tend not to like religion, big defense budgets, backstabbers.

    And yet, strangely, they end up voting for them 90% of the time.

  106. 106
    Brachiator says:

    @Caz:

    Do you just make this stuff up because it’s fun or what? First of all, questioning Obama’s birthplace does not equal racist. I know to you, anyone who doesn’t support Obama is a racist, but that’s just liberal fantasy.

    Questioning Obama’s birthplace DOES equal stupid. You know this. I have no idea why you keep insisting on stumbling over the same meretricious point.

    Most people who are gluttons for punishment like you go to private clubs. Do you need a safe word?

  107. 107
    tech98 says:

    @Caz:

    questioning Obama’s birthplace does not equal racist.

    Rrrriiiiiggghhhttt, that’s why there was so much controversy in the 2008 election over McCain being born in Panama. Not.

    Even if we concede your point, questioning Obama’s birthplace makes you ineffably stupid and ignorant.

    It would require that the FBI and Secret Service, who do background checks with a proctoscope on anyone running for high office, somehow could not discover such a basic disqualifying piece of information; or that these agencies, under the Bush Administration no less, would for some inexplicable reason conceal such a fact when found; and the Democratic Party would risk hundreds of millions running a candidate for President knowing the failure to conceal his birthplace would immediately disqualify him and sink the election.

    Not to mention the State of Hawaii-requested birth announcements in both Honolulu newspapers. But in the teatard mind an African college student knew in 1961 that his biracial baby would surely run for President of the United States someday, so he planned the deception from the start.

  108. 108
    Chris says:

    @Brachiator:

    Questioning Obama’s birthplace DOES equal stupid.

    That’s been my response to birtherism for a while. If it really means that much to you to be known as a fucking moron rather than a fucking racist, fine, you got it.

    Though it is racist, of course. No other candidate has ever been subjected to that, not McCain who actually WAS born in another country, not Clinton or Carter because even if they were Democrats, their middle names were “Jefferson” and “Earl” rather than “Hussein” – plus the white skin and Southern drawls. Anyone who buys the “Barack Obama wasn’t born American” is buying it solely because they buy into the notion that “real American” look, sound and are named a certain way, and there’s something terribly shady about not sharing that particular background.

    But what the hey, Caz, if it means that much to you, I forego the “racist” label and hereby dub thee “you idiot.” You may rise.

  109. 109
    JasperL says:

    The “libertarians” I know are all simply disgusted republicans. The way they all give themselves away is on the military (which they worship) and foreign policy. Bring up any number of Ron Paul quotes on the subject, and they recoil in horror.

    And even though they are disgusted by republicans, they’ll never be democrats because of 1) abortion and 2) they are disgusted that their “hard earned money” goes to “moochers and parasites who are poor, disabled, can’t work, work full time but can’t afford health care/food/rent, etc. I think they really believe that because they have a job with a nice employer provided healthcare plan, and aren’t poor or unemployed or too sick to work or mentally ill or disabled, there is no reason on earth other than laziness and general lousy character that EVERYONE isn’t doing just as well.

    Healthcare is a good example. Liberals think it’s a triumph that 30 million more people will hopefully get better access to healthcare under Obamacare. My conservative friends see 30 million parasites getting a benefit for nothing. They had to work for THEIR insurance, and 30 million lazy bums are going to get it for nothing.

    Bottom line is “libertarianism” gives them an excuse for this sick line of thinking – small, limited government means NO SAFETY NET, and poor people suffer like they deserve. I wish I was joking.

  110. 110
    Steve Crickmore says:

    @tech98: not to mention whisking (illegally) a eight month pregnant, woman from Hawaii on to three or four airplanes to get to Nairobi or Brussels or wherever this child was supposedly born, and then back again in a few weeks. It boggles the mind. Mitts Mormons’ gold tablets ascending into heaven has almost as much plausibility

  111. 111

    @Caz:

    questioning Obama’s birthplace does not equal racist.

    What level of proof would convince you that Obama was eligible to be POTUS?

    Have you set the bar this high for any other Presidential candidates? Whom?

  112. 112
    Corner Stone says:

    @Carl Nyberg: Man. Talk about really, really poor timing.

  113. 113

    @penpen:

    Is that what it boils down to, Protocols of the Elders type stuff?

    Sorry, I had to run to work, but on the off chance that you get back here…

    I think it boils down just a bit more, because the suspects can be the Elders of Zion, the Trilateral Commission, the Bilderbergers, etc…They’re looking for simple answers and simple solutions to complex problems. Goldbugs are usually conspiracy theorists at heart. Scratch the surface and you’ll find someone who believes in any combination of 9/11, JFK assassination, Lincoln assassination and Freemasonry/Illuminati conspiracy theories along with those listed earlier.

  114. 114
    AHH onna Droid says:

    @Carl Nyberg: oh boy, what youre telling me is that goldbugs are misinformed boobs like my high school history teacher (scary thought) who thought the stock market got started in the 20th century and the first crash ever was in 1929. I had to explain to her that they were called ‘panics’.

    (I think it was a big mistake to push out non-teacher experts from hs and replace them with education majors. Hs is way too far up the chain for that kind of ignorance. And I learned a ton in hs classes taught by industry refugees who couldn’t teach or even communicate worth a shit–but they knew their stuff.)

  115. 115
    Death Panel Truck says:

    @Brachiator: Wow. Ayn Rand and I actually agree on something.

  116. 116
    Susan K of the tech support says:

    @DH:

    I would like to do this donation without announcing it to the world.

    Log out of Facebook. Go to your browser preferences and look for the part that lets you manage cookies. Delete any cookies that come from Facebook (or delete all cookies, but that could be painful). Or if you are using chrome, surf to the site in stealth mode or whatever it is.

    Make your donation.

    Done.

  117. 117
    Lady Yehenara says:

    Mittens’ comments are unfortunate, pandering to his base. But it shows us the effect of Gary Johnson’s growing popularity among voters from the Republican party as well as the Democrats. Already the major parties put unnecessary requirements undo restrictions on Gov. Johnson’s quest to sign in on the ballots of all 50 states, but he did it. It is fear that Johnson will take considerable numbers of votes from each party. If Gov. Johnson gets only 10% of the vote, it will send shock waves across the country.

  118. 118
    gelfling545 says:

    @JasperL: I am thinking of my ex son in law whose daughter in insured by SCHIP. He sees no inconsistency.

  119. 119
    Matt says:

    During his 8 years in office, he vetoed over 750 bills – more than all other governors combined

    Amazing how the ONLY notable accomplishment the Libertarians felt like mentioning was DOING NOTHING. Not working to actually implement their platform, or anything like that – it’s like suggesting that a baseball player should get into the HoF for the largest number of pitches not swung at, or that a banker should be commended for not making any loans…

  120. 120
    GothVanhellsing says:

    @General Stuck: I love how so many people who don’t really know the truth about libertarians will let the media decide their only choices are a person who will rob them for the children, or a person who will rob them for defense. One thing that’s a given in all this is if you vote for the gop or the dnc you will be robbed.

  121. 121
    GothVanhellsing says:

    @Matt: Ya Gary Johnson’s record on accomplishments sucks. The ‘Left New Mexico with a budget surplus’ is the one that pisses me off the most, but ‘Restored State General Fund reserves to more than $222 million from a low of $28.1 million’ made me mad too. You know this stuff is not hard to research now that they have that inter web thingy right? You should try it some time.
    http://thevocalibertarian.tumb.....plishments

  122. 122
    fuckwit says:

    That explains it!! That explains the goldbug crap in the Rethug platform, and the crazy birther shit coming out of RMoney’s mouth.

    He’s looking at the numbers. And he has GOT to pull in those Libertarian voters if he’s going to win. So he’s going to double down on the crazy.

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