Clown Team Six

OPSEC, the crew behind the video accusing President Obama of taking too much credit for killing Osama bin Laden, and of leaking intelligence while doing so, might be ex-SEALs, but they’re also hypocrites:

Rustmann and two other key members of the group, all self-described Republicans, have a history of talking openly to the media about national security, a review of articles and transcripts shows.

Rustmann appeared on Fox News’ “Hannity and Colmes” in 2005 to discuss Valerie Plame Wilson, a covert CIA operations officer who was outed in July 2003 by members of the George W. Bush administration.  […]

Scott Taylor, chairman of OPSEC, is a former Navy SEAL. An unsuccessful Republican candidate for Congress in Virginia in 2010, he sat down with NBC News last summer for a documentary titled “Secrets of Seal Team Six.” The film said the military had urged former SEALs not to talk.

And OPSEC member Chad Kolton, a former spokesman for the director of National Intelligence during the George W. Bush administration, helped make the office “more accessible to reporters, including regular off-the-record briefings by senior analysts on global hot spots […]

And here’s the story on the leader of a similar group, SOS, which is also pushing the line that Obama revealed secrets:

President Barack Obama is a socialist, was raised by communists, and wasn’t born in the United States, according to the former Navy SEAL who founded the group Special Operations Speaks(SOS), which aims to portray Obama as anti-military in this election season.

For some reason I don’t think this is going to be the Swiftboating that these morons envisioned.

89 replies
  1. 1
    The Thin Black Duke says:

    Somehow I don’t think reminding voters who killed bin Laden is a winning strategy for the GOP.

  2. 2
    WereBear says:

    I agree with the poster from a couple of days ago who pointed out President Obama came of political age in the 1980’s, when there was less of the “gentleman from Effedup” and less stark disbelief that yes, the Republicans really mean the stupid things they say.

  3. 3
    the Conster says:

    I love birtherism. It’s a self-administered IQ test, with the benefit being that the person willingly identifies themselves as a racist moron whose every subsequent utterance can be summarily dismissed. John Kerry had the misfortune of not having his very birth lied about, so swift boating was the only part of his story he was seriously questioned about. I think we all owe Orly Taitz and Joe Arpaio a debt of gratitude for representin’ the birther cause so emblematically.

  4. 4
    beltane says:

    @The Thin Black Duke: The basic message I come away with from these wannabe swiftboaters is that they are sad bin Laden is no longer alive. If you think about it, bin Laden was good to the Republican party so it’s not hard to see why they’d miss him.

  5. 5
    El Cid says:

    The moment I see a pile of ex-military guys form a political group with a fetishized acronym meant to suggest a bad-ass military operation or command itself, I know it’s these types of shit operations.

    It’s the same way in which guys in the militia movements always seemed to be colonels and generals and such, and there weren’t too many privates.

  6. 6
    c u n d gulag says:

    As with EVERYTHING on the planet, “leaking intelligence” IOKIYAR!!!

  7. 7
    kay says:

    I think the swift Boat Veterans relied on the rabid pro-war environment and constant fear-mongering President Bush used to manipulate Americans after the Iraq invasion.
    Dan Senor lying constantly, that sort of thing.
    I don’t know anyone who wants to go back to the neocon foreign policy, Republican or Democrat.
    I think they’re less susceptible to propaganda on this than they were in ’04.
    You listen to these guys, you end up spending billions and killing a lot of innocent people.
    It isn’t 2004. Iraq hadn’t turned into a tragic disaster yet in 2004.
    I think Romney’s foreign policy advisors are a political liability. There is no public support for the wars they’re promoting.

  8. 8
    ppcli says:

    Boy, this information came out fast…

    Hmmm…. It’s almost as if, after Willie Horton, and (Republican Primary) McCain’s “Black Baby”, Clinton killing Vince Foster, and “Gore claimed he invented the internet HAW HAW”, and the Swiftboaters peddling the most outrageous documentably false lies, and the astroturf Tea Party talking about Kenya and long form birth certificates without a hint of disapproval from the people signing the checks, and …..

    That is, it’s almost as if the Obama people expected that more crap like that was getting put together, and they prepared counter-assaults in advance.

    No wonder the Republicans are howling and whining about “divisive Chicago politics”. Obama just isn’t playing by the traditional rules. “Come on, Democrats! You’re supposed to just harumph and sputter while we peddle the worst sleaze”.

  9. 9
    El Cid says:

    Also, too, please throw Obama into that briar patch of emphasizing that he is too proud of having been the President in charge of actually getting bin Laden.

    Insult him for it all day, and all night, and what you’ll do is remind people that Obama got bin Laden.

  10. 10
    Shawn in ShowMe says:

    I don’t think these folks understand Swiftboating why worked. Swiftboating was all about defining John Kerry to moderates who didn’t know who John Kerry was. Everybody has already decided for themselves who Barack Obama is and what he’s about. He’s the most heavily scrutinized President in history and the most famous man in the world.

    Or maybe these ex-SEALS understand exactly why Swiftboating worked and are just a bunch of grifters taking money from a clueless sugar daddy.

  11. 11
    The Thin Black Duke says:

    @beltane: Agreed. Without their scarecrows, boogeymen and monsters, the GOP has nothing left to offer.

  12. 12
    arguingwithsignposts says:

    @Shawn in ShowMe:

    Or maybe these ex-SEALS understand exactly why Swiftboating worked and are just a bunch of grifters taking money from a clueless sugar daddy.

    Or, maybe they don’t understand why it worked but they’re still a bunch of grifters taking money from a clueless sugar daddy.

  13. 13
    beltane says:

    @kay: There is almost no support in any quarter outside of the Beltway for a war with Iran. Even in 2004, only three years after 9/11 and the constant pro-war media drumbeat, support for the Iraq war was tepid enough so that a candidate like Howard Dean could gain traction. An unpopular war with Iran led by an unpopular Romney (he might get elected but he will never be liked) would not be a good thing for the Republican party.

  14. 14
    El Cid says:

    @Shawn in ShowMe: Also, it was easy to play to a lot of hatred out there among certain pseudo-patriot types for anyone who publicly opposed and condemned the US war against Vietnam as a coward, traitor, and anti-American.

    It was a way of weaving together Kerry’s post-war evil activism with his actual wartime service to taint the latter with the former.

    Thus, for people likely to think like that anyway, it formed an easy, coherent narrative.

    For Obama, they’re undermining their narrative of Obama as anti-American Kenyonesian Muslim-lover who doesn’t have the stones to protect America.

  15. 15
    MattF says:

    There’s also the business of wingers accusing Democrats of committing precisely the offenses that they’re guilty of themselves. It’s almost as if… they’ve never taken Psych 101:

    Or… y’know, took it and flunked.

  16. 16
    Chyron HR says:

    Shorter GOP: “You didn’t kill that!”

  17. 17
    El Cid says:

    @ppcli: Actually, Republicans scream the loudest about “Chicago-style politics” when Democrats aren’t playing hardball. When Democrats get tough with Republicans (never mind the “Chicago” as corruption / mob nonsense), the bullying breaks down.

  18. 18
    Emma says:

    I’ve said it before and I’ve said it again: Barack Obama is blessed in his enemies.

    Of course, he’s also willing to kick ass and take names.

  19. 19
    ppcli says:

    @kay: Also, there was a lot of anger toward Kerry from veterans for his subsequent anti-war activism. A lot of stuff that vets would otherwise have been disgusted by was let pass for that reason.

  20. 20
    1badbaba3 says:

    I think what they are just too well mannered to say is ” in case y’all ain’t noticed O bam-a-lam-a is Black-blackity-black-black-black. And also too, BLACK!!!” Of course, that could just be me.

  21. 21
    kay says:


    It’s amazing how far off beltway and pundits are on this.

    We had a meeting here prior to the 2010 elections. Older Democrats, the kind of people who support any war the US is in, once the US is in. All of the men in the room were veterans, and many of them supported the invasion of Iraq.
    I asked what was the best thing Obama had done and TO A MAN they said “started a draw-down in Iraq.”

    The idea that people want to return to Dick Cheney Liz Cheney Bill Kristol Sheldon Adelson belligerence is cocktail party bullshit.

    But, then, we had local parades honoring permanently damaged or dead soldiers here, so maybe it was more real than sitting around a think tank round table. Nothing like seeing the patched up 19 year old go by to tallke it out of the lofty arena of think tankism.

  22. 22
    MattF says:

    @1badbaba3: … and his wife too. Don’t forget!

    Added: “Manners”? Ha ha.

  23. 23
    Suffern ACE says:

    @c u n d gulag: Well yeah. Because since the days of Nixon it’s been clear that they love America more and therefore are men of honor, who bravely step forward out of a need to save the country and make themselves rich in the process.

  24. 24
    1badbaba3 says:

    Why do they persist in thinking that the same shite that worked on Carter, Clinton, and Kerry will “rise again”? Do they not see, hear, or feel the power of our metrosexual black Abe Lincoln? Fools.

  25. 25
    kay says:


    I sort of disagree with this. There was public support for the invasion of Iraq. I think there’s polling on it, 70% or something. The day of the invasion, which is also the same day as one of my son’s birthday, which is why we were all home, people were driving by and honking their horns with sheer war fervor.

    My husband early and vocally opposed the invasion, and he’s not at all shy, he wouldn’t shut up about it, and he was just horrified at the celebratory feel in this town. Just disgusted and dispirited by it.

    Anyway. That was then. This is now.

  26. 26
    KXB says:

    There is a reason this Swift Boating will not work. In 2004, most average Americans did not know who John Kerry was, and most did not serve alongside him in Vietnam. So a couple of guys come on camera and say things that diminish his record, and then run clips of Kerry tossing his medals, and for some people that will plant a seed of doubt about Kerry’s Vietnam record.

    By contrast – all Americans saw what happened on 9/11. We were told it was done by bin Laden, and we wanted him caught, “dead or alive” as Bush said. Years went by, and no sight of him. Then, in 2011, during Obama’s administration, a highly risky mission is launched, and succeeds. Those some average Americans think that maybe it does matter who the president is in order to catch terrorists. Are they really going to thrown out their views because some guys they never met say otherwise.

    People were not a part of the Kerry story, but they were a part of 9/11. They can draw their conclusions, and aside from a committed anti-Obama faction, they will give him credit for this.

  27. 27
    maya says:

    OPSEC, SOS,whatever, just call them what they are – Swift Liars for Hire

  28. 28
    kay says:

    @El Cid:

    Thank God for Chicago-style politics, is all I can say.

    The douchbags who appear on Morning Joe selling their latest book would still be selling the story they invented out of whole cloth that Romney was an honorable man who would govern as a moderate without Chicago-style politics.

    They should hit him hard, every day, because they are the only people revealing anything substantive or important about Man of Mystery, Mitt Romney.

  29. 29
    beltane says:

    @kay: The support for the invasion always struck me as being as soft as it was widespread. As soon as the occupation showed the first signs of going badly, skepticism began to set in a lot sooner than it would have if people really, truly believed this was a war that was necessary for our national security.

    The town I live in has only 3,000 residents, four of whom lost their lives to this debacle, so the thrill of bombing brown people wore off pretty quickly. The Republicans around here are crazy, but they are crazy in a Ron Paul kind of way.

  30. 30
    robertdsc-iPhone 4 says:

    It’s disappointing to me as a SEAL observer & student to see former SEALs put their names to this kind of sorry business.

    This dishonorable garbage does no one well, let alone those who have gone through such effort to earn & keep a SEAL trident. Ridiculous.

  31. 31
    dmsilev says:

    @El Cid:

    When Democrats get tough with Republicans (never mind the “Chicago” as corruption / mob nonsense), the bullying breaks down.

    As witnessed by the Romney campaign’s hilarious “please stop hitting me” plea a week or two ago.

  32. 32
    Maude says:

    Kerry wasn’t a sitting president.
    The swift boating comes under the once rule. You can do it one and it will work, but not again.
    They are also spitting on the current Navy SEALS.
    Funny how they come out with this in an election season. So patriotic and brave.

  33. 33
    rikyrah says:

    They are also birthers

  34. 34
    HRA says:

    The leader of this pack is a birther and none too shy about his thoughts. That alone should discredit this bunch of misfits.

    9/11 is and was very personal to us. Bin Laden was the architect of it. President Obama vowed to get him and he did it. They seem to forget he is the Commander In Chief. He made the ultimate decision.

  35. 35
    1badbaba3 says:

    @rikyrah: That just makes them “rill ‘Muricans”. ‘Murica, Git Some! Heyuul Yeah!

  36. 36
    kay says:


    That sounds about right. I do think it’s important to remember that there WAS support for the invasion of Iraq, however, even if that support was predicated on lies that media and Republicans and some Democrats told Americans.

    My own personal theory on Iraq is the bogus justification of WMD didn’t matter to regular people. I think the WMD lie was for elite opinion makers, because THEY needed something to hang the invasion on.

    I think the 70% supported the invasion because they wanted revenge on whoever happened to be around after 9/11, and they needed reassurance we could still invade and conquer. All the “I believed Colin PowelI!” Doesn’t ring true to me. They wanted to hit something, anything, HARD, and Bush and media gave them Iraq.

  37. 37
    salacious crumb says:

    well fellating and deifying the military was and is always a double edged sword. Obama should have been expecting this as it was already done to Kerry. Sure Obama can ride high and brag about his kills and hit lists and Commander-in-Chief ability to order around Special Ops, but to think that all Special Ops would be in thrall of their black Commander-in-Chief Democrat ordering them around is fantasy. Obama should have seen this coming.

  38. 38
    Ash Can says:

    So racist asshole (the root of birtherism, after all) is chapped that the black president did what the white president couldn’t/didn’t want to do. Color me surprised.

    And I agree that this bullshit serves the useful purpose of reminding the great unwashed just who did get bin Laden. Keep it up, you geniuses.

  39. 39
    Valdivia says:

    Also, when you have the General in charge of the Seal Six Team telling Wolf Fucking Blitzer that Obama is an awesome president, you know this thing is just a waste of money.

    As Kay correctly says, ALL of America remembers the night we got Bin Laden and WHAT the President said. Their cutting and pasting of that speech to make it sound as if Obama took the credit for himself is just so heavy handed because it doesn’t fall in a vacuum, people Do remember.

  40. 40
    MattF says:

    @kay: That makes sense to me. My gut reactions to both Powell’s UN presentation, and to the claims that there was super-secret definitive intelligence that would convince anyone were “I don’t believe that”– and I’m prepared to bet that was the common reaction.

  41. 41

    I’ll have some more on this later. Once again, the slow child gets caught out.

  42. 42
    Chris says:



    Credit Reagan and Bush I: they addicted the nation to the war-as-campaign-commercial modern where you go in, bomb the shit out of some brown people, get out and throw a victory parade. Worked in Grenada, worked in Panama, worked in Kuwait. But as soon as it drags on a little – yeah.

  43. 43
    gravie says:

    Thanks for posting these items. I am sharing and re-posting as much as I can.

  44. 44

    Jon Stoltz of was on Hardball The other night and really slapped the swiftboater former SEAL around. Called him out on everything. I can’t figure out how to insert links on this thing yet but the video is out there.

  45. 45
    Steve says:

    @salacious crumb: Bahahahaha! Yeah, it was really an option to be low-key about killing bin Laden. Obama sure blew it.

  46. 46

    I think there was strong support for the invasion, because they believed the propaganda about what it was going to be like. We were going to go in, kick ass, be greeted as liberators, find the WMDs, set up a new democratic government, and then get back out again. It was going to be Gulf War II, Electric Boogaloo. Instead, it turned into Vietnam II.

    Shorter: people were gung ho about the invasion; the occupation, not so much.

  47. 47
    BobS says:

    @robertdsc-iPhone 4: That would be a great campaign commercial.

  48. 48
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Shawn in ShowMe:

    Or maybe these ex-SEALS understand exactly why Swiftboating worked and are just a bunch of grifters taking money from a clueless sugar daddy.

    Very possible.

    The entire Clinton hate industry seemed to be at its base all about grifting stupid rich reactionaries.

  49. 49
    Pope Bandar bin Turtle says:


    Where would jesusians be without Satan?

  50. 50
    desertflower says:

    And he’s a birther. That’s really all we need to know.

  51. 51
    Suffern ACE says:

    @salacious crumb: He did. Where is the evidence of a flat footed response?

  52. 52
    jshooper says:

    @salacious crumb: funny how you think this is all about what obama should be thinking…or should have “expected”…It must be paining you to have to twist and contort EVERY ISSUE to blame obama somehow…”fellating the military”…”kill lists”…WTF…any more greenwald talking points you can spew to distract attention away from the RACIST REPUBLICANS…who in this instance happen to be former seals

  53. 53
  54. 54
    salacious crumb says:

    @Suffern ACE: im just saying this response from OPSEC wasnt surprising. Sooner or later, it would happen. Obama and Democrats can pay homage to our vaunted warriors, but in the same breadth, have to take whatever these vaunted warriors throw back at them. after all no one can criticize our hallowed military

  55. 55
    salacious crumb says:

    @jshooper: Im just saying the OPSEC guys are hallowed and no one can criticize them ok? Obama can do that but only at the risk of being branded military hater.

  56. 56
    Bostondreams says:


    And not a very good birther at that. I believe that I read he thinks Frank Marshall Davis was Obama’s father, which would still and for sure make him 100% American.

  57. 57
    1badbaba3 says:

    Obama can do whatever the fuck he wants. He’s the motherfuckin’ Commander-in-Chief. Any questions?

  58. 58

    @robertdsc-iPhone 4:
    When I hear a story like this, I always wonder about their creds. The number of SEALS in bars has to exceed the number that were graduated and finished their careers honorably. Wasn’t the Stolen Valor act intended for people like this birther?

  59. 59
    leinie (iPad) says:

    Oh hell. My mother just emailed me some long forwarded email about some Navy Seal and what REALLY happened with Bin Laden. Because I’m supposed to trust someone who wasn’t there because he thinks some photo of Hillary Clinton is faked. Fuck me but this discourse is stupid.

  60. 60
    Hob says:

    @salacious crumb: That’s a ridiculous generalization. Kerry was as much a veteran as these schmucks, much good it did him. And there are already other vets taking Obama’s side very vocally.

    Not to mention that what you call “the risk of being branded military hater” is not a risk, it’s a certainty for everyone who ever ran against a Republican for national office, regardless of what if anything they ever said about the military.

  61. 61
    WereBear says:

    I thought the first rule of SEAL Team is you don’t talk about SEAL Team!

  62. 62
    salacious crumb says:

    @Hob: and thats my point, no matter how may kill lists Obama conjures up, how many renditions and night raids he orders to satisfy the military and its industrial complex, no matter how many odes and paeans he sings about our vaunted warriors, he will never get their respect. Where are the Navy Seals who should be making videos about how good a commander in chief he is?

  63. 63
    1badbaba3 says:

    @salacious crumb:
    HA! (Tweety laugh.)

  64. 64
  65. 65
    Yutsano says:

    @salacious crumb:

    Where are the Navy Seals who should be making videos about how good a commander in chief he is?

    Respecting the office of Commander in Chief and staying the fuck out of it. Notice that all the SEALs talking are retired? In case you didn’t notice, that’s a tell, and even though they’re retired they can still face punishment under the UCMJ.

  66. 66
    West of the Rockies (formerly Frank W.) says:

    This has been an enlightening thread. But I’m still a bit fuzzy as to why active military personnel continue to vote in favor of Republicans (if the polls are correct). We hear, anecdotally, that a lot of enlisted & officers and their families want out of the Middle East. Obama is (slowly) accomplishing that. He appears reluctant to enter into another protracted battle in other hot spots, whereas NeoCons are foaming at the mouth for further aggression. And the military supports… Romney?

    I’d have thought that by now there was certainly enough evidence that chicken-hawks are at the helm among the Republicans. I’d have thought that Obama has established some military cred with successfully taking out Osama.

    What am I not getting?

  67. 67
    Suffern ACE says:

    @West of the Rockies (formerly Frank W.): My guess is that they are more in play than before. The shameless campaign to make them extra special angry at obama and sequesteration and this issue seems aimed at keeping them in the fold. Just hazarding a guess, but they are countering Michelle’s and Jill’s outreach effort for families of soldiers and veterans. It’s what they do.

  68. 68
    beltane says:

    @West of the Rockies (formerly Frank W.): The Republican party is the salve the heals the pain felt by entitled, insecure white males. The GOP’s appeal is not about issues or policy positions-it’s about providing a message that gives meaning to the lives of the bitter and the butthurt. You really cannot look at the Republicans as a normal political party, they are a quasi-religious, tribal organization that provides life-support to the 19th century idea that white males are the natural lords of the earth.

  69. 69

    @Yutsano: well, it would be VERY unusual for retired personnel to be recalled to answer charges for disrespecting the CinC. I’ve never heard of that happening.

  70. 70
    Suffern ACE says:

    @Yutsano: They appear to be long retired to boot. I

  71. 71
    WereBear says:

    @beltane: The GOP’s appeal is not about issues or policy positions-it’s about providing a message that gives meaning to the lives of the bitter and the butthurt.

    So true; it took me a while to realize it because it makes no freakin’ sense. But that helped me realize I don’t have the hangups they are catering to.

    It’s all about the soothing lies. And really, what kind of lives do they lead that they so desperately need this kind of BS validation?

    Empty inside, methinks.

  72. 72
    Gemina13 says:

    @leinie (iPad):

    Snopes will be your friend. So will the clips referenced here. And a helping of exasperated “why the fuck are you listening to these traitorous morons, Mom?” may keep the emails at bay for a while.

  73. 73
    CarolDuhart2 says:

    @Yutsano: Not to mention that if you are an active Seal, the last thing you want is for anyone to know who you are. Double if you took out bin Laden-there are some butthurt jihadis who would love to take it out on you or your loved ones somehow. In fact, I don’t expect to hear any names from that mission except posthumously or maybe an anonymous book written in retirement.

  74. 74
    Chris says:

    @West of the Rockies (formerly Frank W.):

    From what I’ve read, the political landscape is pretty well represented in the enlisted ranks, with a good proportion of conservatives, liberals and independents alike. The officer corps is where there’s more of a conservative slant and people ego tend to be more politically active. Can’t remember where I read it, but my anecdotal family experience aligns with it.

  75. 75
    Yutsano says:

    @West of the Rockies (formerly Frank W.): I think you’re falling into a stereotype here. For the most part, enlisted personnel aren’t too enamoured with Republicans since they’re the ones who put their neck on the line when the neocons get an itch in their pants. Officers, however, trend more conservative. Of course there are just as many variations among AD as in the general population, but it’s not as black and white as saying they all vote Republican.

    @soonergrunt (nexus 7): Heh. Well I did use a weasel word there, and the violation would have to be pretty egregious. Plus as @Suffern ACE points out, they’re most likely not even IRR anymore.

  76. 76
    Cacti says:


    I sort of disagree with this. There was public support for the invasion of Iraq. I think there’s polling on it, 70% or something. The day of the invasion, which is also the same day as one of my son’s birthday, which is why we were all home, people were driving by and honking their horns with sheer war fervor.

    I remember it well. I remember my “christian” mother in law talking about how she hoped one of the bombs got Saddam while excitedly watching the evening news.

    I remember the various members of the “liberal media” barely containing their glee as they showed footage of the “shock and awe”.

    The whole thing had the feel of Nuremberg rally.

  77. 77
    JoyceH says:


    I thought the first rule of SEAL Team is you don’t talk about SEAL Team!

    LOL – years ago I was taking a class on a Navy base, and in front of one of the buildings I drove past was a sign – “Seal Team Two – The Silent Alternative”.

  78. 78
    Hob says:

    @salacious crumb: That wasn’t your point at all. You can change the subject, but we can still see what you wrote. This is a silly game.

  79. 79
    Nobody special says:

    I don’t think in the real world of voting that the military runs very much more Republican than the civilian world.

    I don’t think they would “recall” retired guys for dissin’ the CIC, they would just pick them up and prosecute them for talking about things they took an oath not to talk about. Breaking security on secure ops.

    Seals don’t really even admit that they are Seals. Not while they are ones. I wasn’t a Seal, and I won’t say anything about it. Nothin’

    Just how it is and should be… so these guys talking about Seal missions, they aren’t Seals or they wouldn’t be saying anything.

    One of the ways to tell someone isn’t a Seal is if they’re talking about it

  80. 80
    West of the Rockies (formerly Frank W.) says:

    Several of you (Suffern Ace, Chris, Yutsano) have suggested that the conservatives are (in bulk) in the officer corps — makes sense, considering the indoctrination they go through at West Point and Annapolis. Repubs remind me a bit of a colony of pissed-off red ants, tearing into and hoarding resources, stepping over their own dead, all in dutiful servitude to their queen/or chosen one (Romney). Maybe they same the same about us (though I think the metaphor crumbles at once).

  81. 81
    Soonergrunt says:

    @West of the Rockies (formerly Frank W.): You may be surprised to know that the service academies tend to produce the least conservative members of the officer corps. Four years of getting it pounded into your head that your job is to do what you’re told to do, when you’re told to do it and that the only time your political opinion is expressed is in the voting booth tends to mitigate against partisanship.
    The biggest liberals of commissioned officers I ever met were academy graduates.
    More the ROTC graduates from southern or especially conservative universities than the academy grads.

  82. 82
  83. 83
    LanceThruster says:

    I would personally like to thank Swiftboat Team Part Deux for their service in keeping America safe for corporate personhood. These are the values that patriots bled and died for since the beginning of the Republic. Also, too…the notion of win at any cost negates any scurrilous accusations of hypocrisy.

    For as we know, history is is written by the victors. We can truly do no wrong, regardless of any wrong we do…because we are the good guys!

  84. 84
    Chris says:

    @West of the Rockies (formerly Frank W.):

    I suspect most of the indoctrination takes place in the form of extracurricular activities rather than anything they’re officially taught, e.g. fraternities, student groups, churches and whatnot – James Dobson’s attempts to colonize the Air Force Academy for example.

  85. 85
    Chris says:


    That I believe. Never met my grandfather, but he was a West Pointer who I understand was pretty much exactly how you describe. The ROTC in my family, not so much.

    I also wonder how much of it had to do with income – as in, the more you have, the more likely it is that you joined the military as a personal preference rather than an economic need, and the more you likely you are to come with a ready made conservative ideology. The ROTC cadets I knew at Howard, the Washington HBCU – all seemed like perfectly sane people who’d make competent, professional soldiers some day. Their richer ROTC counterparts at Georgetown – not so much. Pretty much your stereotypical dumb jocks, way politicized and regularly mouthing off about Hajjis, Dirty Fucking Hippies and French Socialists, and how they wanted to kill them all.

  86. 86
    Patricia Kayden says:

    So do these “swiftboaters” think the Obama campaign is going to sit back and let their lies float around unchallenged. Obama is not John Kerry. He’s not running his campaign like Kerry. He’s fighting back.

    And no one is going to forget Bush with his “Mission Accomplished” banner, when ultimately, the US never won anything in Iraq (or Afghanistan for that matter).

    Bring it on.

  87. 87
    1badbaba3 says:

    Hey, Morans! If Obama doesn’t get the plans, and doesn’t approve the plans, then your dumbasses are just sitting around polishing each others knobs (in a very manly, not at all gay way, of course). Or do you get to make up orders all by your bad selves?

    Respect the motherfuckin’ chain of command, or start your own damn army.

    But that trick never works, now do it?

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  89. 89

    @Soonergrunt: Is there a difference between the academies? I’ve been hearing horror stories about the culture of mandatory right-evangelical Christianity at the Air Force Academy for years.

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