You asked for Max, you get Max.
With a GH2 set more or less on automatic and a wide-ish 20mm lens on it, I bounced the ball, pointed and shot. The pic has terrible lens flare with a weird magenta cast due to the setting sun being almost in the frame, it has poor contrast due to said lens flare and I missed the focus. I have two dozen pics from the same day with better technical qualities, but for some reason I love this one. This is the sort of constructive ‘oops’ that Instagram gives more cheaply by adding a bunch of post-processing filters to a regular pic.
Chat about whatever.
schrodinger's cat
Invisible jump rope
kerFuFFler
My favorite of yours—–I guess I prefer fun snap shots to artsy, “serious” portraits of pets. This one captures Max’s playful energy! (You can always crop off some of the glare.)
Roger Moore
FTFY.
Maude
Is that a dog?
General Stuck
Hey Max!!
some of my most interesting shots are by pure accident, or born of camera incompetence on my part. Though, I market them as well planned and thought out dynamic, yet mysterious light and shadow purely due to my personal camera fu. Or something like that. We are about to get pounded here from a rather nasty T storm.
Ben Franklin
Sorry for the length, but I thought showing Craig Murray in his entirety was appropriate.
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/
America’s Vassal Acts Decisively and Illegally
by craig on Aug 16th in Uncategorized
UPDATE
100,000 HITS IN 100 MINUTES CRASHED THE SITE. WE DON’T KNOW YET IF GENUINE INTEREST OR DENIAL OF SERVICE ATTACK. OUR BRILLIANT WEBHOSTS HAVE QUADRUPLED THE RESOURCE, BUT IF YOU CAN HELP TAKE THE STRAIN BY REPOSTING I WOULD BE VERY GRATEFUL.
I returned to the UK today to be astonished by private confirmation from within the FCO that the UK government has indeed decided – after immense pressure from the Obama administration – to enter the Ecuadorean Embassy and seize Julian Assange.
This will be, beyond any argument, a blatant breach of the Vienna Convention of 1961, to which the UK is one of the original parties and which encodes the centuries – arguably millennia – of practice which have enabled diplomatic relations to function. The Vienna Convention is the most subscribed single international treaty in the world.
The provisions of the Vienna Convention on the status of diplomatic premises are expressed in deliberately absolute terms. There is no modification or qualification elsewhere in the treaty.
Article 22
1.The premises of the mission shall be inviolable. The agents of the receiving State may not enter
them, except with the consent of the head of the mission.
2.The receiving State is under a special duty to take all appropriate steps to protect the premises
of the mission against any intrusion or damage and to prevent any disturbance of the peace of the
mission or impairment of its dignity.
3.The premises of the mission, their furnishings and other property thereon and the means of
transport of the mission shall be immune from search, requisition, attachment or execution.
Not even the Chinese government tried to enter the US Embassy to arrest the Chinese dissident Chen Guangchen. Even during the decades of the Cold War, defectors or dissidents were never seized from each other’s embassies. Murder in Samarkand relates in detail my attempts in the British Embassy to help Uzbek dissidents. This terrible breach of international law will result in British Embassies being subject to raids and harassment worldwide.
The government’s calculation is that, unlike Ecuador, Britain is a strong enough power to deter such intrusions. This is yet another symptom of the “might is right” principle in international relations, in the era of the neo-conservative abandonment of the idea of the rule of international law.
The British Government bases its argument on domestic British legislation. But the domestic legislation of a country cannot counter its obligations in international law, unless it chooses to withdraw from them. If the government does not wish to follow the obligations imposed on it by the Vienna Convention, it has the right to resile from it – which would leave British diplomats with no protection worldwide.
I hope to have more information soon on the threats used by the US administration. William Hague had been supporting the move against the concerted advice of his own officials; Ken Clarke has been opposing the move against the advice of his. I gather the decision to act has been taken in Number 10.
There appears to have been no input of any kind from the Liberal Democrats. That opens a wider question – there appears to be no “liberal” impact now in any question of coalition policy. It is amazing how government salaries and privileges and ministerial limousines are worth far more than any belief to these people. I cannot now conceive how I was a member of that party for over thirty years, deluded into a genuine belief that they had principles.
Hill Dweller
Great picture.
I finally saw the clip of Willard’s white board debacle. He really is a soulless liar. Literally everything Willard wrote on that white board was the opposite of reality.
MikeJ
@Ben Franklin:
Why would anybody ask Nick Clegg’s opinion on anything?
Mike E
Gov. Corbett is getting near Cheney territory in teh polls…and this before his role during the Sandusky debacle has been fully revealed. Ouchie.
Mike E
@Maude: That’s levitation, Holmes.
Brachiator
This is how you do the Robin Hood thing:
And in the UK, leading economists are rethinking austerity (from the Guardian UK)
George Osborne faces calls from leading economists for U-turn on austerity: Almost half of experts who backed chancellor in opposition now say Treasury should borrow to spend on infrastructure projects
Pressure on George Osborne for a softening of the government’s hardline economic strategy intensified on Wednesday after leading economists who backed the chancellor’s plans in opposition called for immediate action to lift Britain out of double-dip recession.
ETA: Meanwhile, here in the United States, hack journalists and pundits are still peeing their pants over how “serious” Paul Ryan’s budget proposals are.
Also, link to Spanish story here: http://gawker.com/5935394/vigilante-mayor-of-spanish-town-steals-food-from-supermarkets-to-give-to-the-poor
Jewish Steel
So we get hoverdogs before we get hoverboards? Didn’t see that comming.
JPL
@Ben Franklin: When I started reading your comment, I thought they stormed the embassy. From what I can tell, he is still in the same place that he’s been in for two months.
Ben Franklin
@MikeJ:
Heh Murray would probably concur. Their National Politics are more inflamed than our own.
It was quiet during the Olympics, however,
Hill Dweller
Looks like Paul Ryan got busted for lying about stimulus funds.
Roger Moore
@Ben Franklin:
I will only say that we should wait until after the British violate the Ecuadorean Embassy before condemning them for doing so. It would be great to lay out exactly why it’s a terrible idea, but it’s unfair to treat hypothetical future events that you think might happen based on one source as a done deal.
Hill Dweller
@Brachiator: If those hacks would stop and look around for second, they’d see Willard and Eddie Munster running away from their previously supported policies as fast as they can.
Ben Franklin
@JPL:
Murray has contacts, being a former Ambassador. I wait for updates. They were threatening to do so, yesterday, but I thought the crisis ended when Quito gave A. sanctuary.
scav
Thinking about it, old Mittsters adding together his self-reported taxes and his reported donations to his church to produce a total does rather conflate Church and State. Its almost logic along the lines of All money I give to a Church should count as equivalent to money I might have owed the government. That is a weird boy.
Brachiator
The battle over civil liberties is universal:
Tell it.
ETA: Link for story here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2012/aug/16/pussy-riot-putin-russia-court-verdict
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Even Yahoo News which is normally Faux light is getting disgusted by Mittens. I think Romney’s attempt to stop Death Clock 2012 on his campaign only worked for 5 days.
PeakVT
The FAA gave it’s blessing to Cape Wind today.
DMcK
The magenta glow makes it look like an alien abduction. “Guys? Dog! Not cow! Hello?”
schrodinger's cat
Does anyone else here frequent ICHC and its sister sites? Their new “upgrade” has made the site unusable.
piratedan
nifty that Tim could catch Max being returned to his people, who have been anxiously scouting our planet in hopes of finding huge deposits of rawhide chewies…..
Origuy
A 41-year-old San Jose fire captain died of a rare form of cancer, leaving a wife and three children, including 17-day-old twin girls. A sad tragedy, that the whole community will mourn, right? Except for the people who want to rant about public-service employees. Why did I read the comments?
mamayaga
Re the Ecuadoran embassy: If they do that, it will not end well. I think the news that they were contemplating a raid was first revealed by the Ecuadorans yesterday, suggesting to me that there had been private threats that the UK govt had no intention of going public with. By making it public, the Ecuadorans are enlisting the rest of the international community for its side. The Ecuadorans also pledged that any UK force would be met with force. We could see some casualties and takeovers of UK and US embassies in any number of different countries.
As much as I prefer Obama to the alternative, this kind of thing prevents me from loving him the way many on the left seem to do. Not only have his Justice and Treasury Departments acted as if they are in thrall to Wall Street, Obama himself all too often acts as if he were in thrall to the security establishment in this country. In my opinion, both Wall Street and the security establishment are more of a threat to more US citizens than Julian Assange is.
dp
I purely love big, goofy dogs. Mine is a Rottweiler, and he’s about as stereotypically threatening a Rottie as Max seems to be a stereotypically threatening Doberman.
Yutsano
MAXPUPPEH!!
@mamayaga: Waitaminute…are you suggesting that the whole reason the British are threatening the Ecuadorian embassy is they are under the thrall of the Obama administration??
Martin
@Origuy: Never, ever, ever read newspaper comments.
Ever.
mamayaga
@Yutsano: Yes.
Elizabelle
Love the hoverdog. Great pic.
To go with it, in honor of a less fortunate pup:
Devo: Don’t Roof Rack Me, Bro.
JPL
@mamayaga: Neat… do you have a link?
Linda Featheringill
Can you be OT on an open thread?
A question on dkos was What is the first popular song that you remember?
After some thought, I decided it was probably Ragg Mopp.
Cute video done a few years later:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyANRiqzfio
In the comments on YouTube, one lady remarked on how much her young children enjoyed the song. I can understand why. It’s still a fun song.
JPL
@Linda Featheringill: Earlier I had on TV and Kathy Lee and Hoda were on, anyway, they spoke about 1953 hit songs and mentioned How much is that doggy in the window. I can remember loving that song. I must of been 4 so I guess that makes me old.
Amir Khalid
@schrodinger’s cat:
The old layout was better. They should have just prettied it up a bit.
gogol's wife
@JPL:
I remember loving that song, but I wasn’t born yet that year, so it must have stayed popular for a while.
LanceThruster
Poop! Everyone’s got a hoverdog but me! And my felines haven’t hovercatted in some time. They been far too busy holding the ground down (so dedicated they even do it while they sleep!).
burnspbesq
@Ben Franklin:
Yap, yap, yap. You still haven’t explained why Julian Assange should be above the law.
muddy
@mamayaga: Wall Street etc are indeed bad. But I don’t see what they have to do with this. There are women in Sweden who would like to confront their alleged rapist, I don’t guess they give a damn about Wall St. or Obama or any of that other stuff.
MikeJ
@mamayaga: And people say humour is dead.
Linda Featheringill
@JPL:
What was the name of that old TV show that featured covers of currently popular songs? I remember they did How Much Is That Doggie In The Window. And a little later did Steam Heat and Let Me Go, Lover, along with other goodies. I was younger then [:-)] but enjoyed it all.
I don’t remember the lyrics to Doggie but do remember some of lyrics to the spoof of it:
How much is that doggie in the window?
The one with the basketball nose.
He reminds me of my sweetheart,
He dribbles all over the place.
muddy
Roses are red
Violets are blue
You have a nose like a B-52
Kevin
Damn. I was hoping to get in early on this thread with a suggested caption of, “Max encounters his first garter snake”. Oh well…as usual, nice pic; I think it may be impossible to take a bad one of his handsome self :)
Linda Featheringill
Do you remember Clear Water?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BikyAeU2lU0
I was much in love with Roy Rogers at one point in my life.
bemused
I haven’t heard much news today until now. Ann Romney was on tv again today about their taxes, right? And Mitt said today he paid at least 13%. If they don’t want to their tax payments in the news, why the hell are they keeping it in the news?
Ben Franklin
@burnspbesq:
My Queensland Heeler (cattle dog) is an ankle-biter, too, and sounds that familiar ‘yap, yap, yap” with the same judcious flair.
Ben Franklin
More Dick waving………
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_world/view/1220562/1/.html
STOCKHOLM: Sweden on Thursday rejected Ecuador’s claim that Wikileaks founder Julian Assange would not get a fair trial as a reason for granting him political asylum, and summoned Quito’s envoy to explain.
“Our firm legal and constitutional system guarantees the rights of each and everyone. We firmly reject any accusations to the contrary,” Foreign Minister Carl Bildt said on his Twitter account.
Separately, Swedish foreign ministry spokesman Anders Joerle said: “The Ecuadoran ambassador is expected at the ministry as soon as possible.
“The accusations that (the Ecuadoran foreign ministry) has formulated are serious and it is unacceptable that Ecuador would want to halt the Swedish judicial process and European judicial cooperation.”
muddy
I wish I had my camera with me the other day at the millpond with my dog. I was throwing sticks for him to swim for, but he likes just to collect them and not bring them back. At one point he had 3 sticks in his mouth, and was herding 3 more in front of him as he swam, like water polo.
Finally I had to swim out and demand them, I had no more sticks to throw, and he was just swimming in circles with his collection. Mine! All mine! My kingdom of sticks!
NotMax
A little something from Mr. Cole’s neck o’ the woods.
Considering Mr. cole’s penchant for mashing appendages, perhaps his best bet would be as a spectator.
Roger Moore
@muddy:
It’s hard to believe that this is just about the accusations of rape in Sweden. Ecuador wouldn’t be offering him asylum, or Britain threatening to violate their embassy, if this were just about rape.
mamayaga
@JPL: Other than the Murray link above? His statements are being treated as credible by Forbes, and the Guardian reports that the US has been a party to the negotiations between the UK and Ecuador. Certainly there won’t be any formal statement from the UK govt that they are doing it on the behest of the US, but as summarized here, this threat is beyond extraordinary for a situation such as this. Don’t know why that would be if this were a routine extradition case.
Roger Moore
@NotMax:
And then he should be careful to wear his old combat boots, since the steel toe caps should be helpful in preventing accidental injury.
Yutsano
@mamayaga: Citation needed.
muddy
@Roger Moore: Not *just* about rape. But at the base of it, it is about rape charges, and I think sometimes people focus on geopolitics and forget that.
If I had made the report, I would not care about the geopolitics, I would only care that he had not answered the charges. And if he was so worried about being extradited somewhere then you’d think he’d have the sense not to go around forcing himself on women and give some government the excuse. I don’t think he imagines he should have to answer charges of any sort from anybody anytime.
He seems to me to be an entitled git, and uses geopolitics as a smoke screen to enable him to do as he pleases. At least holed up in the Ecuadorean embassy he is unlikely to continue his rapey ways.
What does Ecuador get out of all this? Does he have info on them they don’t want him to spill or what?
mamayaga
@muddy: I would very much like to see Assange given a fair trial, and if Sweden would agree not to extradite him to the US for other issues, I’d be quite happy to see him go back and do exactly that. Sweden not only won’t agree to that, they have refused to send someone to the UK to interview him (remember he has not been charged, just wanted for questioning). All this suggests to me that this is about more than the rape charge. This is not to say that the rape charges aren’t valid — it may be that the extra stuff has been loaded on to the case in an opportunistic way — but it has been muddied so much that there are no good choices here. I certainly do not like the idea of Assange getting away with sexual assault if he is guilty, but I also do not want to see the US taking advantage of this to get retribution over its Wikileaks embarrassments.
Triassic Sands
SWIFTBOATING 2012
Well, it’s begun. I just heard an interview with some fascist, er, high-minded American patriotic, more or less accusing Obama of treason for leaking secrets regarding the bin Laden killing. Further, the speaker (I didn’t get his name — a former Navy Seal, I think) wanted to emphasize that Obama had nothing to do with killing bin Laden — other people did that, not Obama.
Yeah, it’s hard to imagine any other president in our history taking any credit for a military act. I vaguely remember something called “Mission Accomplished,” but that couldn’t have had anything to do with presidential credit taking.
LanceThruster
@NotMax:
They didn’t build that road and shouldn’t f#ck it up, either. We can’t afford to fix the busted up ones as it is.
Ben Franklin
For the curious among us (heh) here is a timeline of the sordid events leading to alleged rape charges.
http://www.nnn.se/nordic/assange/suspicious.pdf
Corner Stone
@Triassic Sands: Do you mean this mess with SEAL Ben Smith?
http://www.youtube.com/embed/X-Xfti7qtT0
NotMax
Juan Cole’s piece on the Assange/Ecuador/Sweden/UK/US situation, while written with a decided tinge, is an okay rundown, particularly for pointing out the uniqueness of the allegations under Swedish law.
He does (surprisingly) give but passing mention that part and parcel of the whole situation is Assange trying to enter a jurisdiction where he is less likely to be handed over to the U.S., thence promptly sequestered in a black hole a la Bradley Manning.
Corner Stone
@burnspbesq: For a self confessed lawyer this seems like an odd stance.
danimal
Cole SMASH alert (check the comments). I ususally think of James Joyner as a reasonable Republican, but then he writes utter drivel like this. Once again, I’m reminded: There is no such thing as a reasonable Republican. Once there was, but not today.
I’m sure Cole will come back home full of piss and vinegar. Should be an entertaining evening.
Steeplejack
@Origuy:
Linky no work. I fix: “San Jose fire captain succumbs to rare form of cancer at age 41.”
Maude
@Triassic Sands:
I think this is going to fall flat.
Bin Laden is dead and no one cares about a bunch of whiny brats who hate Obama.
Tell them to get in line and bring a sandwich.
Corner Stone
@danimal: He is getting torched in the comments. Really funny shit.
rikyrah
One of Tweety’s old Aunts must be calling him 24/7 about moving in, cause he’s been a dog with a bone about Willard, Ryan and CouponCare. He’s not letting anything slip by when it comes to Willard and CouponCare.
General Stuck
@mamayaga:
Why wouldn’t Assange get a fair trial in Sweden? If you remember, Sweden was the country that was going to give him asylum via their wide open whistlblower laws, in the first place. And rolled out the red carpet for him, until his pecker was accused of malfeasance per Swedish law. Of course, in the fever swamp liberal blogs, this doctored up rape charges were done at the behest of Big America, ordering little Sweden around to comply with bigger CIA and Obama wishes. I don’t buy it, for a second. And could it just be that neither Great Britain, nor Sweden are all that thrilled with having a South American Banana Republic, short circuiting their judicial systems giving cover to an alleged rapist?
And does anyone really think, that Obama and DOJ are going to extradite Assange to someplace like Gitmo, or the states? For what purpose. The investigations long ago concluded that Assange simply received Manning’s info, and was not complicit in stealing the classified material himself, or his org Wikileaks. So the only possible way to prosecute him would be under the nefarious Espionage Act, which is not going to happen. Sweden is not a puppet state of the US, and takes seriously its roll as one of the most liberal Euro nations, especially on free speech matters.
Corner Stone
@rikyrah: Kate Michelman may be the worst TV spokesperson for an idea I have seen since the last time Katrina vanden Huevel showed her stupid non ability to speak on TV.
Corner Stone
@General Stuck: Ok people. That’s a wrap! President Stuck has laid it out for you.
Ben Franklin
@General Stuck:
For what purpose
Are you a lazy thinker? You know; the type of person who feels using your brain is too much like work?
Paul Ryan needs volunteers for the campaign.
Cacti
@danimal:
There is no such thing as reasonable Republican.
The Republican ticket is running on a re-legislation of the 20th century, removal of the social safety net, and zero-ing out the tax burden of the super rich. They are assisted in this effort by pack of gibbering, irrational, bigots otherwise known as “the base” or the “Tea Party”.
The Joyners of the world exist to give cover to both groups.
General Stuck
@Ben Franklin:
Go fuck yourself, you mealy mouth piece of firebagger shit.
Ben Franklin
@General Stuck:
I’ll give you the last word…..mmmmpppppffffffffffff!!!!!!!!!
Cacti
Are the firebaggers fapping about Assange in this thread too?
Okay, you win.
Julian Assange is one of the greatest humanitarians in history. A combination of Mohandas Gandhi and Martin Luther King for the internet age…
If either of the former two had been common cowards in the face of legal consequences.
D’oh, I just can’t do it.
Corner Stone
@Cacti:
If you mean come up with a reasonable comment relevant to this situation? Then no, you just can’t do it.
burnspbesq
@mamayaga:
Why should Sweden have to prospectively default on its treaty obligation, when there has been no extradition request from the US and may never be any such request?
As much as I wish it were otherwise, Assange hasn’t been charged with any crime in the United States, and it appears that Manning is too damn stupid to realize that his best way of avoiding a life sentence is to roll over on Assange.
burnspbesq
@Ben Franklin:
Hahaha, but you still haven’t explained why Julian Assange should be above the law. Can you?
NotMax
@General Stuck
Don’t forget that it was the Swedish government which was heavily involved in aiding and abetting secret CIA flights used for rendition and transport to black sites, involvement which the Swedish people named in a recent poll as the #1 scandal of their government in the last 20 years.
Also too, material released about Swedish activities and allowance of U.S. surveillance of Swedish citizens, under pressure form the U.S. and contrary to Swedish law, in the Wikileaks diplomatic documents.
Strictly for informational purposes, Sweden is a member of the Eurozone, but is not a member of NATO.
Ben Franklin
@burnspbesq:
Any more than I can excuse Obama for being above the Law, asswipe.
Cacti
Here’s what happens to troublesome journalists in the human rights utopia of Ecuador…
Go ahead and wave your panties at them, firebaggers. They rescued your little tin Jesus from sex crimes charges.
General Stuck
@NotMax:
And yet, Assange chose Sweden to hang his hat, and keep doing what he was doing under liberal Swedish free speech laws.
And you might want to look up the UN security council resolution the day after 9-11, where for the first time in its history, mandated that all signature countries shall fight against international terrorism within their borders.
Ben Franklin
Cacti Says:
Here’s what happens to troublesome journalists in the human rights utopia of Ecuador
Why are you stuck in that gear? No one thinks Ecuador some sort of Savior. They don’t even want it. But now, they have committed. It’s a Sovereignty issue. Deal with it.…
Cacti
@General Stuck:
Should have chosen France.
They don’t mind when their male celebrities get a little rapey.
General Stuck
@Cacti:
With the current state of skullduggery going on in Ecuador , I don’t think it is out of the question that they could be acting as a kind of kidnapper, holding Assange until someone offers them a bundle to turn him over.
Or maybe, it evolves into a Ransom of Red Chief situation, and they turn him over just to get the dude out of their hair.
General Stuck
@Cacti:
Yep, but Polanski wasn’t a prog hero, so his case of rapey scofflaw is an outrage on the left.
Cacti
@General Stuck:
Actually the editor of El Universo fled to the US and applied for asylum after his conviction of “criminal libel” against his excellency, El Presidente Correa.
Wouldn’t be surprised if this was a neener-neener by Ecuador, or they hope to arrange a fugitive swap.
Ben Franklin
Even Zero Hedge is calling it. Be Right of these guys, then be proud progressives.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-post-assange-or-corzine
Ben Franklin
Even Zero Hedge is calling it. Be Right of these guys, then be proud progressives.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-post-assange-or-corzine
Ben Franklin
Even Zero Hedge is calling it. Be Right of these guys, then be proud progressives.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-post-assange-or-corzine
NotMax
@General Stuck
Weak tea, indeed.
1) Your implication that I know not of the resolution is patronizing, at the least.
2) Security council resolutions have a rather spotty history of universal accordance to the letter of the document.
3) Nothing in the resolution requires Sweden (or any other country) to violate its own laws and its own constitution.
Ben Franklin
Even Zero Hedge is calling it. Be Right of these guys, then be proud progressives.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-post-assange-or-corzine
Ben Franklin
Even Zero Hedge is calling it. Be Right of these guys, then be proud progressives.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-post-assange-or-corzine
Ben Franklin
Even Zero hedge is calling it. Are y’all to the Right of these guys?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-post-assange-or-corzine
Ben Franklin
What the Fuck is with WP? Is it the software, or the fucking server?
General Stuck
@NotMax:
You left out the part in your initial comment to me, about the eavesdropping concerning terrorism investigation.
You are implying that there is something unusual, untoward, or unlawful about the US eavesdropping on citizens of a foreign country, And their helping with us to track terrorist suspects is against Swedish law. And I might have missed it, but didn’t see where your link provided a claim at illegality by the politicians quoted.
Every western country, to varying degrees cooperates with the US on international crime matters, and we cooperate with them. My reminding you of the extraordinary mandate by the UN, directing all signature countries cooperate and fight terrorism in their country, is fairly important when assessing legality, as I suspect most UN countries have the UN treaty plugged into whatever their individual constitutions are.
That some folks in Sweden are aghast at that occurring, to match against Assange himself choosing Sweden to do his wikileak work unfettered and state protected, is pretty weak tea, imo. as is the claim that Sweden will simply roll over and hand over Assange to America, that I haven’t heard our government even wants him.
Though if the then Swedish government helped facilitate our Bush era CIA/torture/rendition program, that is clearly illegal under any law. But they weren’t alone in doing that as Euro country’s go. And finally, Barack Obama is president now, not George Bush. That is a little patronizing, but still needs to be voiced now and then due to lingering effects of BDS.
NotMax
@General Stuck
Quite a difference between “eavesdropping” and surveillance.
We do know some details of the surveillance as conducted in Norway, and what has been publicly acknowledged in Sweden in no way contradicts similar practices taking place there:
And finally, Barack Obama is president now, not George Bush.
Irrelevant to your premise of Sweden not bowing to U.S. pressure: “Sweden is not a puppet state of the US” – which is towards what my original response was directed (that’s why it was blockquoted in that comment).
General Stuck
@NotMax:
From your link.
Every country plays these spy games out of embassies, even in the US, and for a very long time. Sometimes host countries okay it, and sometimes they don’t. So what is your point on how this has to do with Sweden handing over Assange to America, that has not said it even wants him? That somehow justifies letting the guy skip to Ecuador rather than face justice on rape charges in Sweden. The country Assange picked to legally hide behind in the first place.
NotMax
None at all, as that was not the part of your post to which my response was addressed*. I was pointing out that painting Sweden as a purer-than-pure liberal government unmarred by seamy cooperation and concomitant allowance that is at odds with that picture, either implicitly or explicitly, at the behest of the U.S. is dubious.
*Purposely did not bring up Assange, as the space here is, frankly, too limited for what I might care to expound about that.
NotMax
@General Stuck
Oh, and do you really do think that a program of payments by a foreign government to who knows how many nationals associated with the military and police to conduct surveillance of and report on citizens would occur without the knowledge of the government (as opposed to that government turning a blind eye to such activities to maintain official deniability)?
General Stuck
@NotMax:
You should have said this before. I wasn’t painting Sweden as some Shangri La of purity anything. What I said was they have very liberal laws on free speech matters, especially regarding whistleblowing. That must have impressed Assange, because he wanted to set up shop there, and the powers that be were delighted to have him.
There are always anecdotes to the contrary for any county’s bad behavior, and certainly the US pressuring is a strong force for smaller countries to deal with. But I don’t think anything we know of at present regarding this case, is justifiable in giving Assange political asylum any where.
General Stuck
@NotMax:
Every country has corrupt officials. Even Sweden, that isn’t Norway, btw. It does not sound like this went on anywhere near the ladder top of authority in Sweden. That would be involved with handling the Assange case.
CardinalRed
Tax, I asked for tax….Mitt Romney tax to be specific…