Mitt Romney is trolling America — he’s a walking rickroll ( a mittroll, if you will):
Updated 12:41 p.m. – GREER, S.C. — Mitt Romney said Thursday that he had never paid less than a 13 percent effective tax rate after reviewing his returns from the past decade.
The presumptive Republican presidential nominee did not pledge to release any additional returns beyond what he had previously pledged, but essentially quashed rumors that he paid no taxes at some point.
~snip~
“I did go back and look at my taxes, and, over the past 10 years, I never paid less than 13 percent,” he said, later adding: “Every year, I paid at least 13 percent, and if you add in, in addition, the amount that goes to charity, the number gets well above 20 percent.”But the former Bain Capital executive has been dogged by accusations — principally from Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) — that he had skirted paying taxes.
“Harry Reid’s charge is totally false. I’m sure waiting for Harry to put up who it was who told him what he says they told him. I don’t believe him for a minute by the way,” Romney said.
You know, Mitt Romney may be a proven liar, but that’s ok — I think he is trustworthy and I also think that his word is his bond; so when he says that he checked his tax returns for the past ten years and wants You People to know that his tax returns show that he never paid anything less than 13% in taxes, I am totally willing to believe him —
[read full post at ABLC]
Litlebritdifrnt
I saw Anne spouting this line too on MJ this morning. When is some damn reporter going to say “actually that 10% is tithing to the Mormon Church, it does not go to charity”. They need to point out that a miniscule amount of what the church takes in goes to charity and they also need to point out that he has no damn choice in the matter.
The Moar You Know
Count me among those who are starting to feel as though you’re taking advantage of both this blog and its readership to drive your own hit counts.
Not clicking.
Johnny Gentle (famous crooner)
Hey, cut him some slack. You don’t become fabulously wealthy by being an underhanded liar.
Lol
I’m sure Kessler will be awarding him 4 pinnochios any day now for making unsupported assertions.
Nemo_N
I’ve had sex with Kylie Minogue and Milla Jovovich. At the same time.
Brachiator
Ah, but what does his wife Anne say about this?
Maybe they should ask their horse. A hoof strike for each percentage paid.
Keep digging, Mittens, keep digging. His stubborn refusal to simply comply like any other presidential candidate is amazing.
So, let’s see. Palin and other dopes have been suggesting that Obama dump Biden for Hillary.
If Romney can’t be transparent and reveal his tax returns, maybe the GOP should dump him and replace him with somebody like, say, Ron Paul or Gov Christie.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
as skeptical as I am of our press, this issue seems simple enough that they may just keep on it, and Our Willard just stoked it up again, and the drones of the Beltway seem to be commenting on the “he didn’t say federal income tax”. Good. But this makes me want to kick a Tea Bagger:
Willard, this isn’t about your tithing. This is about your policy. Your entire campaign is based on the idea that you and people like you can’t create jobs because federal tax rates. Your church, your wife, your family foundation, none of that is relevant.
Side note: Does anyone know which state Our Willard actually declares residency in for tax purposes? Either MA or NH, no? Are you still living free of a state income tax in New Hampshire?
Steve
I just went back and looked at my last 5 years of tax returns. I paid about 25-26% – we’re talking federal only, right? And this asshole is strutting around boasting about how he paid a whole whopping 13%. Gee, isn’t he just a great American?
wrb
13% of what?
Another evasive and incomplete answer
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Litlebritdifrnt: in principle I agree with you, but Willard is just waiting to play the “attack on my faith” card (which will lead to more talk of the “war on religion”). and Politico et al are just waiting to help him whine about it, at least the first part
Zach
He’s probably telling the truth that if you divide “taxes owed” by “adjusted gross income” you get 13% or more each year. What he’s not saying is what the sum of “adjusted gross income” is for the past decade. I’m guessing it’s much, much, much less than the hundreds of millions he’s amassed in that time.
MikeBoyScout
Slick Willard lie about paying taxes? Never happen! YOU people!!
Wait. What?
Gekko/Galt 2012 – Who you going to believe? Us or your lying eyes?
Mike Lamb
@Steve: Seriously–he thinks saying that he paid “at least” 13% is helpful. Example 41237812038947156612 of how out of touch he is.
Beth
Still no word on his INCOME TAXES.
Note that these crucial two words are never uttered together by the Romneys. No one cares about all those other taxes. We need to know about his INCOME TAXES.
So yeah, Mitt’s just adorbs thinking he’s got us distracted with his clever parse-fu. Which no one has totally ever done anything like before! FTW!
I mean, anyone with a teenager is focused like a laser on the exact words, and we cannot be fooled. You’re busted, buster.
wrb
Is this 13% when all taxes (state, local, federal) are totaled?
AA+ Bonds
If he did pay over 20%, would liberals shut up about it, and why
redshirt
I have this wicked hot girlfriend, but she’s from Canada. You probably wouldn’t know her.
Martin
Reid didn’t say the last 10 years. He said “Didn’t pay taxes for 10 years”. Those 10 years could have been 1990-2000.
wrb
Pity the poor Republicans trying to defend him.
If only it wasn’t too late….
AA+ Bonds
What if he paid 50% in taxes and still commanded more wealth than a human being ever should, how about then
Would this be a “non-issue” to liberals
wrb
@Martin: I believe it was 10 years while at Bain, so definitely not the last 10
NonyNony
@Steve:
I was just thinking that this frank admission by Romney is almost as good as getting his actual tax records.
“I never paid less than 13%”. Out. Of. Touch.
Hill Dweller
Didn’t Mitt lie about his taxes when running for Governor in Massachusetts? If I recall correctly, Maddow did a story on him lying about paying taxes in Utah.
Brachiator
@AA+ Bonds:
Nope. The issue isn’t what he paid, or any particular detail.
The issue is the arrogance of his non-disclosure.
Romney is just about to stumble into Nixon territory. It ain’t the crime. It’s the cover up.
What is Romney covering up?
JGabriel
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Mitt Romney:
A) I don’t believe you.
B) Did you take advantage of tax amnesty in 2009, thereby tacitly admitting illegal tax avoidance?
C) Who gives a fuck what you gave to charity? You’re not running for chairman of the United Fucking Way; you’re running for President of the United States. The duties include tax law enforcement, as part of the executive branch.
.
AA+ Bonds
@Brachiator:
Isn’t the problem the obscene wealth that has allowed him to buy political office
KG
@AA+ Bonds: it would be a non-issue if he did what every serious candidate (and nominee) for president has done since the 1960s and released 5-10 years worth of tax returns. If it showed he paid little to no taxes, and did so legally, it would only be an issue in the sense of “look at how fucked up the tax code is”
Roger Moore
@Steve:
Who knows? Mitt was vague about just what taxes he was talking about. Is this just the taxes on his 1040, or does it include every other penny of taxes he paid to anyone for anything? And even if it was a minimum of 13% on his Federal taxes, that’s still pretty meaningless, since most of the big tax games come when you’re calculating your Adjusted Gross Income, not when you’re using it to calculate your taxes owed. Paying at least 13% just means he hasn’t been claiming any big tax credits, not that he hasn’t been playing fast and loose with deductions, fictitious business losses, off-short tax shelters, etc.
John
@The Moar You Know:
Indeed. Either post a whole post here or don’t post it here at all.
FormerSwingVoter
@Steve:
This. At one point a couple of years ago I actually did some research, and saw that at the start of every decade since the federal income tax began, the tax rate of median income workers has almost always been 25%.
Romney may be telling the truth – but even if he is, he’s paying half the tax rate of median-income Americans.
Martin
@wrb: He didn’t say. Reid is being a bit cagey about the whole thing himself I think because he knows that Romney releasing more returns won’t refute the claim – rather that getting the returns out there is the real goal.
I’m almost positive Romney didn’t pay taxes from 1947 to 1957, for example.
Zach
@Hill Dweller: He’s conveniently owned a home in income-tax-free New Hampshire for quite a while. It would be very interesting to learn how many years if any he’s filed as a New Hampshire resident. Maybe I’m too cynical, but I suspect you’ll find that he filed in New Hampshire every year that he wasn’t running for Senate or Governor in MA or living in the Governor’s mansion.
AA+ Bonds
I mean, it’s all well and good to claim “it’s the cover-up”, but why was it a question in the first place? There’s no need for bad faith
ABL
@The Moar You Know: take it up with Cole. Jesus Christ. I don’t care if you click or not.
ETA: it was his idea. it’s bizarre to me that some of you feel the need to keep complaining about it.
Trinity
Unreal. We pay 28% in taxes and make under 200k between us!
Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God
Massachusetts has a flat income tax: 5.3% earned income, 12% capital gains tax.
I seem to recall Mitt living in Massachusetts from 2002-2006.
Both numbers are less than 13.
Cassidy
@AA+ Bonds: Because he won’t do what every other POTUS candidate has done since his father set the precedent and then demands everyone be okay with it. All while palling around with people who want to see the current POTUS’s grades as far back as middle school and demanding to see the very first diaper with some baby shit in it.
SATSQ
Commenting at Balloon Juice Since 1937
I’m glad Mitt keeps reminding us that he won’t reveal his taxes for some reason. Also, it sounds like he could be shorting the Latter Day Saints.
scav
Never specified he paid the 13% in US taxes either, so another helping of more of the same. GSD he’s dull.
AA+ Bonds
@KG:
But why do we care about Mitt Romney’s tax returns so much? Christmas tradition? Are we worried he’s pushing coke to the Russians?
Or do we care about the rate he paid and whether we consider it obscenely low?
I would venture that Democrats have pursued a line skeptical of wealth in general, and particularly Wall Street wealth, and am trying to get people to remember the underlying issue
Brachiator
@AA+ Bonds:
No.
Ask Meg Whitman about how her wealth let her buy the governorship of California.
Also, while Romney spent a considerable chunk of his own money pursuing (and failing to get) the presidential nod in 2008, he has not spent as much of his own funds this time around.
If anything is obscene, it is the amount of money flowing in from Sheldon Adelson and other GOP Superfriends.
CW in LA
I do not think ‘quashed’ means what NBC News in the above excerpt seems to think it means.
MikeBoyScout
Because it would be irresponsible not to speculate ….
With bazillions of unregulated campaign expenditures and an effective voter suppression campaign across the nation, Gekko/Galt, dog forbid, tallies up enough electoral votes or SCOTUS votes to assume office without Slick Willard’s tax returns ever being released.
God loving conservatives, again in power, hack the IRS and put those returns showing what Slick Willard is so very scared of in the public domain. An uproar ensues.
The Republican party which never liked Mitt anyway jumps on board and force Slick Willard to resign, and Randroid Paul Ryan is your puppet president.
jibeaux
@AA+ Bonds: In politics? My, of course not. Bad faith, I get the vapors just considering the possibility of not taking a politician at his word. I’m sure he has an excellent reason for not releasing the tax returns and I, as a you people, am quite satisfied with that.
Joel
I like how the minimum standard for truth here is that Mitt Romney paid 13% in taxes over the last decade. It’s a pretty impressive framing on the Democrats’ part. Talk about fighting in unfriendly territory.
Steve
@NonyNony: Well, you know, if he paid more than the absolute minimum he’s required to, he wouldn’t be qualified to be President or something. Because it’s your solemn patriotic duty to minimize your tax burden. We actually skipped over that part in my civics class.
I’m actually fortunate enough that my company has a tax guy who does my personal returns. One year I had a meeting with him and he said, if you do any of your work at home, you should start taking a home office deduction. Well I went home and did some googling and I decided that, in good conscience, I just didn’t qualify for that deduction and couldn’t take it. I wasn’t even worried about being audited – I just said to myself, I can see the rule right here, and I know I don’t satisfy the rule, so how could I tell the IRS that I do?
This isn’t something I pat myself on the back for – it’s simply what I think normal, honest people are supposed to do. I know there are people out there who take every hyper-aggressive tax position they can and at the end of the year they probably end up with more money than I do. But I can’t control them, I can only control myself. Maybe I’m a schmuck for not trying to game the system.
f space that
@JGabriel: Exactly!!
scav
@AA+ Bonds: It’s also evidence of the simply shatteringly unbearable crushing blatherblatherblather burden he as ever so sacred job-creator is laboring under, so yeah, the fact that he’s not sharing the extent of his injuries is suggestive and worthy of investigation.
artem1s
@Brachiator:
ya gotta wonder. yes, paying little in taxes is embarrassing for about one news cycle. So is there something else? Is it in the details of his income or deductions? Did he throw the LDS some giant check to defeat Prop 8 that will get them both in trouble with charitable giving law? The obfuscation is just leading to more speculation on what he is hiding.
but more important, the rube just can’t keep from picking at that scab, can he? It’s like he NEEDS to make us believe there isn’t anything there.
Hill Dweller
@Zach: When Willard voted in Massachusetts recently, there was a small flap about him using his son’s unfinished basement as his place of residence.
I’m betting you’re right; he has been using NH as a tax haven.
Todd
Mitt, you bitch, your tithing to your cult isn’t charity. It is a fucking country club membership fee, and an essential part of your grift.
Frankensteinbeck
I would discourage speculation about how he might be telling a half truth. Romney has clearly shown his willingness to flat out lie. The only surprise would be that it took him this long to do so.
@AA+ Bonds:
All these reasons and more. Romney’s taxes are the gift that keeps on giving. They give us reason to talk about unfair tax rates, they make him seem suspicious and criminal, they make him look weak, and it’s quite possible there are secrets in there to damn the wealthy on still more fronts. Let us open up this box of treasures and see what we can do with its bounty.
Anatoliĭ Lъudьvigovich Bzyp (formerly Horrendo Slapp, Jimperson Zibb, Duncan Dönitz, Otto Graf von Pfmidtnöchtler-Pízsmőgy, Mumphrey, et al.)
I pray to God that he doesn’t let anybody see his taxes until at least the beginning of September. After the convention, it’ll be too late for the Republicans to throw him away and choose somebody else. So while I’d love to see them come out in time for the election, let’s hope Rmoney has at least the good sense to hide them for another two weeks or so.
I’ll say, also too, that I can’t believe I was actually pulling for Gingrich or Santorum to get the nomination back in the winter and spring. I had no clue just how abysmal a candidate Rmoney is. I should say, though, that I don’t think anybody could have foreseen how awful he is. He’s something beyond anything I’ve ever seen running for office in my lifetime, or even read about in history classes. This guy makes Richard Nixon look like Bill Clinton. He’s like a force of nature: There’s no way to reform him, there’s no way to change him, there’s no way to make him any better. It would be like trying to talk a tornado into becoming a balmy spring breeze.
SenyorDave
@Lol: Unless you are Mitt Romney, we’ll need some proof.
hueyplong
Now he’s just doing drip, drip, drip on himself.
Anyone who has ever filed a tax return knows that there are a lot of variables and/or interesting features of the return beyond the effective rate applied to the as-yet undisclosed adjusted gross income figure (such as how he got to that figure).
The most laughable comment yet from anyone is Ann Romney’s whine that if they selectively release a nugget of information that, standing alone, isn’t overly damning, people will just want to see more. No kidding.
It looks like this will go on for as long as people maintain an appetite for it.
Comrade Jake
Something tells me that “Hey! I paid a lot more in taxes when you add in all the money I gave to charity!!!” isn’t going to go over all that well with the public.
What a douchebag this guy is.
mdblanche
Wait, didn’t Mitt make his VP announcement last weekend to get this out of the news? Why is he discussing it? Is he trying to lose?
To which I can only say, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n5E7feJHw0
AA+ Bonds
I’m sorry but this “everyone does it” business just doesn’t wash – every last one of those fuckers also does his or her best to keep potentially embarrassing information out of the spotlight, as all of you well know – but why is this information likely to be embarrassing?
Harry Reid knows, whether or not you believe him
I think it is a good idea to get at the underlying issue: why do Democrats believe that Mitt Romney’s tax returns may be potentially embarrassing
And I submit that it is because a lot of people believe wealth should be taken from the rich and redistributed, and we need to feel satisfied that this has been applied to Romney in some token fashion, and there is nothing wrong with that
But it is the social issue at the heart of this ‘scandal’
And if Romney had been taxed 50% from 1990-2012, it would still be an issue to me and I think more people than just me
Cassidy
@AA+ Bonds: Your concern is noted.
SiubhanDuinne
@ABL: If I’m interested in your topic (I usually am) and have time (I sometimes don’t), I’ll click over. If not, not. Why does it matter to people whether or not you get moar page clicks? I mean, it’s no skin off them, right?
By the way, I did click on this one. I feel not at all diminished.
jl
TPM blog says it will look into the ins and outs of Mitt’s claim. That will be interesting.
Slightly OT, but re Paul Ryan, I do not see how his denial of Ayn Rand passes the smell test. If he just read the huge novels, then I guess it is possible that he didn’t understand her philosophy, though that seems a stretch.
But he says he was interested in her economics. Well, I have read her economic writings, and they are founded explicitly on Objectivism. It is impossible to escape her philosophy if you read anything she wrote, or, to put it charitably, being rather careless about the truth.
Whatever the merits of lack thereof of neoclassical economics, it is a coherent logical system built on a few explicitly stated principles, that can be passed off as reasonable and with weak ethical assumptions (though doubtful that remains true when you look at the way the principles are applied and theoretical terms interpreted in many applications).
But Rand’s economics makes no sense at all unless you understand how everything is made up (as you go along) to fit the moral universe of Objectivism. It is very explicit. Randian economics is absurd in every way imaginable except one. It is logically incoherent, and you will never ever see what Randian economics predicts would happen in in the real world. The only thing I can say good about it, is that Randian economics is built very explicitly on her philosophy. At least that part of it is clear.
So, IMHO, when Ryan said he got interested in Rand because of her economics, but did not understand her philosophy, then I think Ryan is either extremely stupid or is lying.
jp7505a
This is really really getting depressing. 40-45% of the electorate will vote for R&R when they have said
1. you can’t ask about my personal tax situation
2. you can’t ask about my business career even though it is said career that makes me qualified to be president
3. i won’t tell you how I will reform the tax code and what deductions I will close, until AFTER the election
4. I won’t tell you how I will cut spending, even though I have excluded about 80% of the budget from cuts, UNTIL after the election
5. I won’t tell you how points 3 and 4 will balance the budget by 2020, UNTIL after the election
6. and after the election we will have this discussion in a quiet room somewhere.
Now if this 40-45% of the electorate walked into a car showroom and got those kinds of answers from the salesman, I truly hope they would not be dumb enough to buy a car from him (or maybe I’m just being increditable optimistic about the level of intelligence here). So why in heavens name would they elect a president that way
JoyfulA
My biggest charitable donation is to a homeless shelter where I’ve worked as a volunteer and seen what great work it does with little money.
Could we ask Mitt about his favorite charity?
Nemesis
@AA+ Bonds:
What if?
What if Napeolon had a B52? We would all be speaking French.
romney is asking us to trust him. For obvious reasons, like his lying about his actual residence during his run for MA govenor, we want facts, not excuses. He is hiding something or he is afraid something will be toxic to his campaign. That is his problem, not ours.
Kane
Yesterday Ann Romney says, “And so, you know, I’ll be curious to see what’s in there too.”
Today, Mitt Romney says, “I did go back and look at my taxes, and, over the past 10 years, I never paid less than 13 percent.”
So did Mitt do all of his research yesterday after Ann’s interview? Or did Mitt know of this information before yesterday and just not let Ann know? Or was Ann lying?
jl
@jl:
Editing comments are messed up, so can’t finish edit.
one paragraph in my previous cmoment should read:
” But he says he was interested in her economics. Well, I have read her economic writings, and they are founded explicitly on Objectivism. It is impossible to escape her philosophy if you read anything she wrote on economics. “
jayackroyd
@Steve:
The thing that is so brain dead about this is people get their fucking paychecks. And the net is never 87% of the gross. Romney’s saying his takehome on his million dollar a month check’s is proportionately less that YOUR take home. He pays less in taxes than you do.
I mean here in NYC it’s about half the check. But it’s never so little as 13%
tamied
@Steve: There are a lot of us out here.
rikyrah
the hilarious thing between him and his wife is like…
how dare you peasants question us?
it reeks from every pore of their being.
and we, the peasants are like..
Mofo, just show us the damn tax returns.
dmsilev
@mdblanche:
He’s discussing it now because some members of the political press, bless their little hearts, have decided to keep hounding Romney on the issue. He’s been trying to find a better Squirrel! to distract them with, but so far nothing. Since he’s played the Veep card, he’s stuck until the convention in a couple of weeks.
Anatoliĭ Lъudьvigovich Bzyp (formerly Horrendo Slapp, Jimperson Zibb, Duncan Dönitz, Otto Graf von Pfmidtnöchtler-Pízsmőgy, Mumphrey, et al.)
@jp7505a:
7: I bet he even has a “secret plan” to end the Vietnam War, but he won’t tell us that, either, until after the election.
Anatoliĭ Lъudьvigovich Bzyp (formerly Horrendo Slapp, Jimperson Zibb, Duncan Dönitz, Otto Graf von Pfmidtnöchtler-Pízsmőgy, Mumphrey, et al.)
@JoyfulA:
No. If we see anything about his charitable giving, it’ll only give his poopnents “more ammunition” to use against him, and we wouldn’t want that.
Brachiator
@AA+ Bonds:
There are many issues at play here.
One of the biggest for me is that I absolutely, positively resent how Romney has arrogantly redefined the standard of disclosure. The one set by his own freaking father.
And his reasons for doing so, to remove the issue of his taxes from political discussion by the Democrats, is ridiculous.
And he has now swept up Ryan into his orbit. So, Ryan has shown Romney “several years” of his tax returns, but has withheld this from the public.
Would a President Romney change the rules and traditions with respect to disclosures for cabinet or judicial nominees?
The issue for me is that a candidate who unilaterally decides whether he will comply with accepted tradition, especially one who previously demanded that his opponents reveal their tax returns, is obviously trying to conceal something and is not an acceptable candidate for any public office.
And this is before we get to any detail about any particular tax return or tax year.
That’s my underlying issue.
Litlebritdifrnt
@Anatoliĭ Lъudьvigovich Bzyp (formerly Horrendo Slapp, Jimperson Zibb, Duncan Dönitz, Otto Graf von Pfmidtnöchtler-Pízsmőgy, Mumphrey, et al.):
Kind of like John McCain’s plan to get Osama that he said he would share with everyone once he was elected.
Fester Addams
Didn’t say to what country he paid said taxes to…
See also “Foreign Tax Credit”
Cacti
Richard Nixon said that he wasn’t a crook.
Frankensteinbeck
@dmsilev:
I look forward to the convention. It seems impossible to me that Romney would be unseated. Yes, there’s a LOT of buyers’ remorse going on right now, but he has the delegates, so he wins. It’s already settled. But SOMEHOW Romney will turn it into a train wreck. The man’s political acumen is breathtaking.
Roger Moore
@AA+ Bonds:
Because it is a nexus of a whole bunch of his weaknesses. It’s not just about his being a representative and agent of the ultra-rich in their class war against the rest of us. It’s also about him being insanely secretive about even the most trivial details and having enormous daddy issues. It’s also something that he’s clearly personally sensitive about, so it’s a good way of getting him angry and distracted from what he wants to talk about. IOW, it’s a great campaign ploy for a whole bunch of reasons.
handy
@AA+ Bonds:
I’m trying to understand your “concern” about all this considering you’ve done a lot of talk here about take-no-prisoners-politics-aint-beanbag libs need to start popping people in the mouth. Especially since it seems to be working, Willard’s getting his goad and demonstrates to more people everyday what an entitled wealthy douche he is.
Cacti
@Nemesis:
What would crack me up is if he was hiding past donations to planned parenthood or something of the like.
ABL
@SiubhanDuinne: whingers gonna whinge!
Cacti
Mitt’s taxes have been useful for skewering at least one Republican article of faith.
When you give the super rich tax breaks, they don’t trickle it down to the rest of us. They park it in the Caymans/Bermuda/Switzerland.
Litlebritdifrnt
Wonkette’s take on it
shortstop
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: That’s why another Mormon needs to do it. Harry’s already persona non grata at Romney barbecues…
JGabriel
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Nemesis:
Yep. Romney admits there’s something toxic in his tax returns every time he, or Ann, whines that Democrats will use them against him.
That means there is something in them that Americans should know about, something that Romney believes Americans would judge harshly and hold against him — something that would lose him the election.
.
Todd
@AA+ Bonds:
Because a big portion of his campaign message is that tax rates for Job Creators are too high, and they clearly need to be lowered so that the valiant Heroes of Conservative Tradition can supply the Horn of Plenty that will sustain us all.
Litlebritdifrnt
@JGabriel:
More frightening, something that would leave him vulnerable to blackmail.
Chyron HR
@SiubhanDuinne:
I’m so old I remember back when they were complaining that ABL’s posts were too long and that it was an ordeal to have to scroll past them.
artem1s
@Roger Moore:
the info purging that has become part of his job changing routine is pretty scary stuff too. Jeebus help us if he ever has a chance to affect any lasting change on the FOIA.
Rommie
Mitt: Yeah, look, I scored! How about that!
His team: Not in our goal you eeeediot!
Our team: Stop. Don’t. Help.
Martin
@AA+ Bonds:
Because it’s a trivial thing for him to do, and he refuses to do it. It is, in fact, the simplest of gestures he can make, because the tax returns are already done. If he can’t make the simplest of gestures to the electorate, why should we expect him to do something that requires actual effort?
It’s symbolic of his “I’m more important than you, I’m above these silly things” attitude.
schrodinger's cat
Heh if he has nothing to hide why is he so afraid.
mechwarrior online
Here is something to remember about Mitt, he has lied about his taxes before. He had claimed he filled in Mass but he didn’t… he then retroactively/amended filed in Mass so he could become governor there. I forget the exact details so someone would have to look it up.
So with that, things we know about Mitt and taxes.
-He won’t release them even though it’s doing incredible damage to him.
-Both he and his wife admit there are things in there that could be used against him.
-He’s lied about them before and had to fix them.
-He pays an absurdly low rate.
-One of the years he won’t release covers a year where the feds nailed a Swiss bank to the wall and forced them to give up over 4000 accounts that were illegally sheltering money, which is a felony. The IRS then granted amnesty to anybody that came forward for this.
This will be fun.
Mike in NC
@hueyplong:
For the next 80 days, on every day that ends in a “Y”, I want to see Mitt Romney in front of a microphone defending his refusal to come clean about his income taxes.
KG
@Frankensteinbeck: Hypothetically, what would happen if a majority of delegates abstained on the first ballot? I know they are “bound” to Romney, but what’s the penalty if they just say “nah, we will wait until the next round of voting”?
wrb
I think he’s trapped himself even worse than he had before.
His evasive phrasing suggests that we’re talking about nothing as simple as 13% in Federal Income tax.
However if it isn’t that simple and he releases- he’s cooked. So this will continue to boil.
Villago Delenda Est
Hey, OvenMitt!
Trust, but verify!
Turn over your tax returns.
Now, asshole.
The Other Bob
@ABL:
Why should anyone give a crap if you link back to your blog. It’s just a blog. Chill out peeps.
JGabriel
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Jim, Foolish Literalist:
It’s not a war on religion. If Mitt Romney says he wasn’t born in a polygamous Mormon enclave in Mexico, then I believe him. I just don’t think the American public can know for sure until we see his long-form birth certificate.
Is it so much to ask that Mitt Romney adhere to the standard set by the current president in releasing his long-form birth certificate? And that Romney release his taxes for the past 12 years, following the precedent set by Romney’s own father?
.
Hill Dweller
Willard’s assurances are irrelevant. His refusal to release his taxes is a tacit admission they’re damaging.
Ronzoni Rigatoni
@ABL: Jeebus H. Xmas, What’s so hard about a quick click to see what’s left? It’s kinda nice to even check out a new site (for me). So don’t pay att’n to the assholes.
BTW, when are YOU gonna release your Federal tax returns?
Cassidy
Oh wow! We’re the ones doing the swiftboating. What is this I feel? My heart is racing, I’m a little dizzy…..
Litlebritdifrnt
@Mike in NC:
Fear not, Harry Reid is on it (from twitter)
azlib
Mitt sure is making the case for raising the capital gains tax. 13% is incredibly low for all the millions he is making. He is hiding a lot of income behind tax shelters at that rate. When I was self employed with payroll and income taxes my effective rate was well above 13% and I was grossing less than $100K.
And what is this – charity now counts as paying taxes??? WTF. Keep digging, Mitt.
Cassidy
What would be really funny is if he pulled that and the talibangelicals looked at him like he was in a heathn cult or something.
Cacti
@azlib:
Well, ex-mormons do refer to tithing as the “temple tax”. You’re not allowed to participate in the most sacred rites of Mormonism if you’re not forking over 10% of your income.
Bulworth
That 13% is sure some seriously severe Taxed Enough Already tax rates. Don’t Tread On Me!
Jamey
@The Moar You Know: Ding!
Villago Delenda Est
@The Other Bob:
OK, this reasonable comment is way out of line.
It’s way out of line because SOME people here will whine like Gekko/Galt about ABL’s links back to her blog.
Stop being reasonable!
hueyplong
Mitt wants credit for charitable deductions as taxes, while his supporters won’t even let poor people count their actual state, local and sales taxes when claiming that those poor people “pay no taxes.”
JGabriel
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Hill Dweller:
It’s not even tacit. Mitt and Ann have both said repeatedly that the returns won’t be released because the Democrats/Obama campaign will use the returns against Romney. That’s a straight up admission that Romney thinks there is something in the returns that can be used against him.
Every reporter who gets that answer should be asking, “How would the Democrats use the returns against you? What specifically is in your tax returns that could successfully be used to derail your campaign? If nothing, then why not release them? And if there is something ambiguous or aggressive in your tax returns, shouldn’t the American people be allowed to judge its importance for themselves? It sounds like you don’t think very highly of America’s citizens.”
.
Brachiator
Every day, from now until the election, reporters should ask Romney and Ryan when they are going to release their tax returns.
The issue isn’t any summary, synopsis, briefing or chat from Mitt about what he paid or how much he tithed.
The question is, when is he going to release his tax returns.
This also needs to be asked in every debate, at every appearance, at every news conference.
If he cannot comply, as his father did, he should consider withdrawing his name from nomination by the GOP.
Enough of this tiresome evasion.
NonyNony
@Ronzoni Rigatoni:
I will not rest until I see ten years of ABL’s birth certificates!
f space that
All I can say is, I wish I paid 13% Federal income tax. That would be about half of what I usually pay.
Seanly
@Litlebritdifrnt:
I wonder if part of Harry’s beef is that Mitt’s been shorting his tithing (in addition to all the other reasons he wouldn’t like Mitt).
The more Mitt refuses to release those taxes the more the issue will stew. It almost has to be a candidacy crippling admission in there.
Mitt’s in the same position as a lot of suspects in “The First 48” after the detectives get them to admit piece after piece of a crime. Little left to do but come clean.
NonyNony
@Brachiator:
Honestly? I’m waiting for Romney to offer to let one reporter into a room with his tax records for a few hours to “set the record straight”.
hueyplong
What is striking about the Romneys is how angry they both get when addressing this issue.
As someone else said in another thread, it’s getting to the point where GOP types are so accustomed to home cooking on FoxNews that they can’t survive any kind of questioning that isn’t a mere set of declarative anti-Democratic talking points to which they can simply nod in agreement.
“What is your plan for ___?” is now considered an attack. They’re all turning into Palin.
JGabriel
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The Other Bob:
Seconded/Thirded/Whatevered.
.
Villago Delenda Est
@hueyplong:
The internal contradictions just keep on coming, don’t they?
Amazing, Olympic caliber mid air acrobatics of logic twisting about in ways that seem utterly impossible and against the laws of physics and gravity continue to be displayed by OvenMitt and his minions.
Villago Delenda Est
@hueyplong:
Shorter the Rmoneys:
“Shut up, that’s why!”
Litlebritdifrnt
Gotta love this “Mitt’s White Board”
http://romneyswhiteboard.tumblr.com/
SiubhanDuinne
@Chyron HR: ABL cain’t win fer losin’ !!
Mike in NC
@Bulworth:
When they enact the Ryan Plan, that will be changed to a whopping 0.82%, and then President Willard M. Rmoney will try to retroactively refile his taxes for the last 10 years.
JGabriel
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Chyron HR:
I’m so old … I can remember when when Angry Black Lady was still Mildly Annoyed African-American Woman.
.
Omnes Omnibus
@Nemo_N: Dude.
quannlace
Uhhh, aren’t charitable contributions tax deductible? So how does that add to his tax burden?
“Yeah, yeah. 13% . That’s the ticket! Now meet my wife, Morgan Fairchild.’
Randy P
I think the weaseling is pretty obvious here: 13$ of what?
If he received $100 million in income and made $99,999,990 go away by magical rich-person deductions, then maybe he paid 13% of the last $10.
The line about charity makes me even more suspicious because he’s saying the number he’s computing the percentage of is something other than what most of us would call “income”. It’s an “it depends” number.
srv
Good enough for me.
Vulture/Voucher 2012
Kane
Mr Romney should know that taxes and charity are two different things. And he should know that the obligation of federal taxes is different from a mandatory tithing levied by the Morman church. And he should also know that no matter how much he believes in the cause of his church, there is a world of difference between tithing and voluntarily giving to charity.
muddy
@Kane:
My father used to have my mother sign a blank tax return. Later in life (prodded by feminist daughters), she started asking to see. But she had no idea of finances (never was even shown her credit card statement, let alone ever wrote a check), and so he convinced her that the AGI was all the money he made, and then everything had to come out of that number. His thinking was, this will make her behave frugally. It didn’t, she just crapped on people who she thought had more money than that and did not budget it as wisely as she did. I tried to explain to her over and over the diff between your stated wage and the AGI, but nooooo…
Maybe Mittens makes Ann sign a blank form like that, so she will be frugal, it kind of shows in her dreadful fashion sense. Altho one could certainly dress better than that for a teeny fraction of what she spends, still she is probably clothing frugal compared to their 1% friends.
As far as my parents go, they were born 100 years ago (literally) so perhaps this sort of thing goes with an old-fashioned mindset. Don’t pollute the minds of ladies with the details of filthy lucre.
Jeff Spender
Paul Ryan’s newest claim about his medicaid cuts: “I included them because I was using Obama’s baseline.”
Unbelievable. Then again, I kind of revel in full-contact sports and the fighting spirit of the Democrats is a bit invigorating.
Elie
@mdblanche:
“Is he trying to lose?”
Good question. I echo the sentiment in one of the comments above, could anyone have expected what a completely miserable candidate Rmoney has turned out to be? I mean, its just gotta be leaving some of the Repub Cognescenti in complete, shock…
In a weird way its also frightening that our political system could produce such a terrible candidate — no matter what party. Its gonna take Ryan all he can do to keep HIS career intact after this.
Villago Delenda Est
@MikeBoyScout:
It’s not so much that Willard lies.
It’s that he lies so poorly.
Lojasmo
@John:
Fucking click through if you want to read it…or don’t. Either way STFU.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Your liberal media, ladies and gentlemen
I think Scherer smells opportunity in the coming ‘shake up’ at CNN. That job as the Reasonable center right antidote to that awful Rachel Maddow is just begging for some Reasonable Person to step in and fill the space left by that nice Campbell Brown.
waratah
I guess he was tired of talking about the medicare cuts, and wanted to change the subject.
rikyrah
@Todd:
But why do we care about Mitt Romney’s tax returns so much?
not just his message
but the GOP message of the past 30 years
Romney supporter
@quannlace:
Wow, your’re married to Morgan Fairchild? I’m a big fan, could you introduce us?
Jeff Spender
@Lojasmo:
Indeed. It’s not like we don’t have tabbed browsing and it costs so many vital kilocalories of energy to click a button.
rikyrah
More than one person has pointed out that he never says FEDERAL INCOME TAXES……
How come he never says FEDERAL INCOME TAXES
there are a whole lotta taxes out there.
uh huh
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@rikyrah: I wonder how many BYU accounting major-interns swore on the Golden Plates of Moroni and Joseph Smith’s Translation Hat to never speak of what they had seen as they pored through the Romney archives, toting up property taxes, sales taxes on horseshoes, pommade and $900.00 fishie tee shirts desperately trying come up with 13% for every year.
Brian R.
@NonyNony:
It’s like saying “I never killed more than one man.”
Dee Loralei
@Litlebritdifrnt: Brilliant! Mitt Romney single handedly keeping internet humorists alive and on top of things. And me in stitches! He’s more fun than McCain! As long as he loses!
shortstop
If I were one of Romney’s coreligionists, I’d be pretty appalled at his lumping support of his church together with the payment of taxes, given that his entire platform consists of whining about how oppressive and freedom-sapping it is that he should have to do the latter. Way to make it clear that he deeply resents every LDS donation he makes.
different-church-lady
@Steve:
An under-appreciated aspect of Reid’s gambit. Mitt appears to have fallen right into that snare.
shortstop
@different-church-lady: This incident has certainly given me a wider appreciation of Reid’s talents.
JGabriel
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Villago Delenda Est:
Which tells us something very important about Romney’s learning skills, given the enormous amount of practice he has publicly put into it.
.
Applejinx
I guess that rather than ‘he paid one dollar in taxes so he could say it wasn’t zero’, it’s actually ‘he got busted with the felony Swiss bank account and had to get amnesty’.
What else could it be?
Does amnesty for a felony crime mean he technically is allowed to be President, or is it more ambiguous? Who knows about that stuff?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@different-church-lady:@Steve: Amen. I confess it slipped right by me. An example of how the GOP and SCLM keep moving the goal posts.
Ronzoni Rigatoni
@NonyNony: LOL. Wish I’da thoughta dat.
Kane
@muddy: It seems that the situation becomes entirely different if you’re running for president and the issue of your taxes is somewhat of recurring issue and you put your spouse out on national television to answer a reporter’s questions. Under that scenario it seems that one might want to fill in their spouse about the contents of their tax records on the off chance that a reporter might ask about those tax records.
JGabriel
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shortstop:
MItt Romney:
Well, that tells us something else: can’t say for positively sure, given the wording, but it looks like R-Money calculates his tithing after taxes, not before. The LDS might have a problem with that.
.
japa21
Okay, somebody explain something to me. Let’s take Romney at his word and he paid 13% and if you counted charitable contributions (which includes the tithe) it is more like 20%.
Earns for the sake of argument $100. Pays $13 in taxes, but if you include charity it is $20. That means charity is $7. That $7 is 7% of income not 10%. Isn’t he just admitting to not giving the church everything he is supposed to?
Elie
@waratah:
LOL! It appears that is the case…
The Romney campaign makes a big damned deal of selecting the “conversation changer”, Ryan. THAT promptly goes into the toilet so bad that now neither knows anything about Medicare or budget cutting but its Obama’s fault no matter what. Then they bring on stupid Ann (AGAIN — don’t they get that she is no asset but as butfuck clueless as her hubby)Then to wrap that all up, they put the master of clueless speech, the Rmoney himself, back into making complete, ridiculous mess out of everything and bringing this whole tax thing back to the front burner.
Its hard to get a lick in on these people cause they are so busy hurting themselves. And remember, Romney has had 12 years to prepare for this run and he can’t get his head from out of his ass even for a minute. Yeah, Rove was supposed to make this a sure thing…I wonder if he flirts with the idea of suddenly wanting to spend more time with his family…
JGabriel
@japa21: Heh, looks like we both got there at the same minute.
hueyplong
The more we see of the Romney campaign’s lack of subtlety, the more we should assume that giving up the 2010 return absolutely, positively means there’s poison in the very next return as you go back– 2009.
So it seems like the “Swiss amnesty” thing is in there. For starters.
Niques
@wrb:
Don’t forget property taxes. County, right?
Brian R.
I say we follow Mitt around with signs that quote Saint Reagan:
TRUST, BUT VERIFY
Jay in Oregon
Didn’t Mitt Romney try to claim that his effective tax rate was something like 45-50% because Bain Capital had to pay corporate income tax, then take his earnings out of the post-tax amount that was left? As if he was paying Bain’s corporate tax out of his pocket?
Yes, yes he did.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/26/mitt-romney-tax-rate_n_1234950.html
(And this assumes that both Bain Capital and Romney himself didn’t do their damndest to minimize their tax liability…)
shortstop
@JGabriel: @japa21: Could be. He’s probably referring to 13 percent of the smaller amount of taxable income he has after charitable contributions are deducted.
That, of course, assumes that he meant to say “U.S.,” “federal” and/or “income” before “13 percent in taxes” and just forgot. Wink!
In any case, his very careful wording is “well above 20 percent.” Wouldn’t it be easier to name a higher percentage in the 20s, if he’s going beyond the minimum tithe (10 percent, if I understand correctly, is the number assigned to lower foot soldiers of the church; bishops are expected to pony up much, much more)?
Apart from everything else, it’s apparent that he’s not giving diddly squat to charity other than LDS contributions. Which wasn’t really any of our business–until he brought it up as a point supposedly relevant to whether he pays taxes and is a Deeply Giving Person.
The Other Chuck
I don’t care about the links back to ABL’s blog anymore. Long as there’s a good nut graf or two instead of a twitter or reddit style synopsis, I’m totally fine with it. This is the intertrons, with hyperlinkitizing and all that, embrace it.
eyelessgame
I’m willing to believe that *of the amount of money that, on his tax return, shows as bottom-line net taxable income*, he paid at least 13%. So should everyone.
As the Sainted Molly Ivins used to say, the scandal ain’t what they do that’s illegal. The scandal is what they do that’s legal.
Shawn in ShowMe
Can you impeach a person for perjury before he’s President? I think it’s important to send a strong message to future Presidential nominees: If you suck at lying, we will humiliate you. That’s why Queen Coulter is so incensed with Rmoney. Business? Business? Bullshit is our business!
Deception is a key prerequisite for the job. For example, Bin Laden thought that the stupid Americans had given up looking for him. And Obama got exactly the VP he wanted by lauding Ryan as a policy wonk.
1badbaba3
@The Moar You Know: @John:
Why do you hate capitalism?
KG
@Jay in Oregon: For fuck’s sake… this jackass has a law degree and an MBA from Harvard. Did he not pay attention in any of his (I’m assuming many) corporate law classes when they explained how alter ego, limited liability, and the legal fiction of corporate personhood works?
Saying that the taxes your corporation pays is the same as taxes you pay is a great way to make all those legal distinctions reduce to nothing.
wrb
@Jay in Oregon:
That might be another fib then. My understanding is that Bain’s deals were structured as partnerships, with tax passed through.
KG
@wrb: depends on the partnership structure. LPs and LLPs have to pay taxes as a separate legal entity, general partnerships may not but nobody does a general partnership unless they have to because of the lack of limited liability.
Geoduck
@Applejinx:
I think the only Constitutional requirements are you have to be over 35 years old, and a natural-born citizen of the United States.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
If I read it right, to get 13%* Mittens would have to be declaring less than $17,000 a year fricking year in taxes. lower Middle class drones like me pay 25%.
* or is it less
rikyrah
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
that’s why I love it.
it’s so damn SIMPLE.
what is Willard HIDING IN THE TAX RETURNS?
not only is it simple, and can reach the lowest of the low-information voters…
it’s also able to work around the MSM, which is covering for Willard.
The Other Chuck
@Geoduck: Resident for 14 years too. Article II Section 1:
The Other Chuck
Even if Slick Willard paid 80% in income taxes … most of his money is capital gains and *isn’t counted as income*
Mattminus
@The Moar You Know:
Grifters gonna grift.
shortstop
@KG: I don’t think he’s going for accuracy so much as shoveling out crap that tribal Republicans will enthusiastically lap up.
Of course, he’s also dumb, so there’s that.
Villago Delenda Est
@Brian R.:
I’ve been trying to find a way to send an email to the Obama/Biden people with that very idea.
Trust, but verify.
Skewer the bastard with the words of the Sainted Ronaldus Magnus.
Rob in CT
It’s like this. The boilerplate GOP position is that not only should taxes on “job creators” (aka the investor class, the .1%, whatever you prefer) not go up, they’re too high *right now*
The perfect illustration of the idiocy of this is, of course, the past ~10 years of Mitt Romney’s tax returns.
This is true if he really did pay ~13%/yr. Thirteen percent is outrageously low. Frankly, the 2010 return he did release should be damning in and of itself. And yet it seems likely that was “the good one” he felt he could release. Which I find… interesting.
If I recall correctly, my family paid 17% federal income taxes last year. We do well (gross earnings close to $200k). That 17% is too low, given the need for revenue to pay our country’s bills. It needs to rise, though preferrably once we get our economy moving again. There is no effing way my tax rate should be consistently higher than a guy pulling down ~$20 million a year.
The obvious issue here is taxing capital gains at 15% while you tax earned income at higher rates. Also things like carried interest that I admit I don’t fully understand.
[I can’t recall now whether I calculated the 17% based on AGI or gross income. I like to do both, because of course it reveals how much deductions/credits are helping).
Violet
@Brian R.: Trust but verify. Oh, that would be awesome. Please someone do this.
Rob in CT
@Villago Delenda Est:
St. Ronaldus was, if I recall correctly, quoting a Russian proverb.
Today, this would be proof that Obama hates America.
;)
Actually I love bringing out that quote. I think that’s a good idea.
Martin
@The Other Chuck: Cap gains are still income. They’re unearned vs earned income, but cap gains are still considered income taxes.
You need to look at payroll taxes, sales taxes, estate taxes, that kind of stuff to find non-income taxes.
However, given that Mitt turned 59 ½ 6 years ago now and has $100M in his IRA, it’s entirely possible that much of his income for the last 5 years have been IRA distributions and not cap gains. That isn’t considered income because it was treated as income on the way into the IRA. There’s probably a number of other sources of ‘income’ that would apply the same way. For all we know, 2010 (the year we have returns) was the one year he took all of his cap gains to show income and taxes.
Villago Delenda Est
@Geoduck:
There are the Constitutional requirements, and then there are the political considerations that make someone viable as a candidate or not.
Rmoney is flirting with fail on the latter.
1badbaba3
@Mattminus: mor fibre plz.
jp7505a
@Anatoliĭ Lъudьvigovich Bzyp (formerly Horrendo Slapp, Jimperson Zibb, Duncan Dönitz, Otto Graf von Pfmidtnöchtler-Pízsmőgy, Mumphrey, et al.): or afganistan, or whatever country we’re fighting in but no one cares enough to talk about, other the the familes and friends of the soldiers
Anatoliĭ Lъudьvigovich Bzyp (formerly Horrendo Slapp, Jimperson Zibb, Duncan Dönitz, Otto Graf von Pfmidtnöchtler-Pízsmőgy, Mumphrey, et al.)
@Brian R.:
I think what you meant was: I never killed more than one man in any one of the last ten years.
Villago Delenda Est
@Rob in CT:
Yup, he was. It was his way of demonstrating that he was as reasonable as some old babushka huddled over a samovar.
Which is why I love the idea of Obama/Biden using it on OvenMitt.
“If Ronald Reagan thought this was reasonable, why don’t you?”
SBJules
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I’ve been wondering what state Mitt votes in. Giving to charity(tithing? is not a tax.
Martin
@Rob in CT:
We paid 0.4% in federal income taxes on just shy of $100K in income. I had to verify that repeatedly as I just couldn’t believe what TurboTax was telling me. That was something of a fluke, but it wasn’t at all planned. Because our tax rate is down under 15%, we pay a 0% cap gains rate through this year, provided our unearned income doesn’t exceed our earned or AGI or whatever. There were a bunch of tax credits due to putting in new windows (paid for by the stock sale) and the kids, and this and that.
I live in one of the richest cities in the country and housing prices are absurdly high, but $100K is pretty easy living, even for a family of 4, and we usually do it on $60K. There’s no reason why we shouldn’t be paying much more in taxes – and for anyone earning $250K who complains, they can just DIAF. Even Manhattan is easy living at $250K. Fuck, ¼ of the people who live in Manhattan are below the federal poverty line.
Martin
@SBJules:
The Republican state. Remember, the social safety net can be fully dismantled because of charity. That’s been a Republican talking point since Reagan.
feebog
I’m pretty much convinced that the Romneybot 2.0 took advantage of the tax amnesty offer by the federal government. It fits with the timing of the closed Swiss bank account. It also explains why he realeased his 2010 taxes (albeit incomplete) and a projection of this year instead of 2009/2010.
Carl Nyberg
Does Mitt Romney want to be criticized in the media for Paul Ryan or his taxes?
He seem indecisive.
How does Mitt Romney figure that rolling out his tax returns like he’s doing a strip tease works to his advantage?
It’s almost enough to make me suspicious the elites nominated Romney to run against Obama so Romney could lose and the Left-of-Obama-on-the-economy citizens could feel good about beating Romney and feel emotionally connected to Obama’s victory.
Eli Rabett
He is adding in state taxes. Note that he carefully did not say federal income tax or federal taxes. Many of those years he was resident of MA which has an income tax.
Eli Rabett
And probably property tax
scav
If he’s counting donations and charity, he’s probably adding in the change he lost in the ever so many couch cushions in his ever so many mansions. The help probably found them — heaven forfend they forgot to include his munificence in their declared taxes.
shortstop
@scav: Mitt rightly suspected they wouldn’t, so he helpfully deducted it from their already scandalously low (“If you think $2 a day is not enough, Carmelita, I’d be glad to call ICE to get their opinion”) wages.
muddy
@Kane: No! No! The wifely helpmeet may not be exposed to that sort of info! It’s not seemly! All she knows is what he tells her, and that’s enough for her.
Maybe he knows she is a worse liar than he is, so best to keep her uninformed lest she spill accidentally. She’s not a professional trained business liar.
He feels it should be enough for the American people too, but sadly, no.
Applejinx
GUYS. NOTHING else matters but the amnesty.
It makes total sense- but more than that. Do you realise what that means, literally?
If Mitt Romney took amnesty for a swiss bank account that is a felony crime and they permitted him to get away with his crime provided he admitted it and paid penalties…
he is *drumroll* an ADMITTED FELON.
They don’t give you amnesty if you DON’T do the crime. Amnesty means you admit guilt in exchange for consideration. Admitting guilt to felony tax evasion means he is an admitted felon who’s been allowed to go free through the generosity of the USA.
He had to admit it to the IRS, and they will keep his secrets as well as they keep yours. It’s hiding in plain sight, negative space around what he is willing to admit and release.
He’s just not admitting he’s an admitted felon to YOU.
And amnesty means he’s not a ‘convicted felon’, he’s an ‘admitted felon’.
NOW do you see why he can’t come clean?
“I confess I am disappointed that my worthy adversaries, the Republicans, feel it’s appropriate to run an admitted felon for my office. They say Washington corrupts you. I hope it hasn’t corrupted me. I guess Governor Romney can claim a head start on that?”
Peter
@Litlebritdifrnt: In fact, NPR had a bunch of mormons on to talk about their religion last week, and one of the things they said was that the tithe went exclusively to the LDS church for administration and expansion. If they want to contribute money for charity, they have to do so on top of the tithe.
LanceThruster
Officer: Do you realize how fast you were going?
Mittens: Well, over the last hundred miles, I figured I averaged no more than 25 miles per hour. Less if you include the speed while I was parked in the underground garage.
Officer: My radar gun says otherwise.
Mittens: I scanned my memory and at no time was I driving over the speed limit!
Officer: But Mr. Romney…
Mittens: How dare you question my integrity! Good day, sir!
[Ann Romney from passenger seat] F#ck you, Dick Tracy! We rob banks!
[Mittens laughs and throws up gravel on the officer’s motorcycle as he roars off]
Thus begins the legend of Romney and Snide.
Applejinx
Better yet, if he’s taken amnesty he’s an ‘admitted felon’ whether or not he’s admitted it to the public.
“Oh, you’re offended? Funny thing- so am I. You see, I have not felt the need to commit felony tax evasion. I guess I’m just a po’ boy from Chicago. Poor but honest. I do applaud your decision to come clean. Have you committed any other felonies you think we should know about?”
Read that in Obama’s voice.
I’m serious, the amnesty thing is absolutely deadly in the right hands. Imagine Obama saying things like I’m suggesting- not a bit of it abusive, and should Mitt admit this amnesty, not a bit of it anything but literal truth.
This is the most politically dangerous bombshell imaginable- verging on ‘dead girl/live boy’ territory.
wrb
@Applejinx:
But there are so many other things it could be too!
The Other Chuck
I wonder if Obama’s going to ask Mitt point blank if he took amnesty.
Applejinx
@wrb:
They all pale next to the damage Obama could do in a debate with the fact that Romney is an admitted felon- IF we get this fact shared with us. If that’s it, then he shared it with the IRS and they’re keeping it in confidence but it WOULD show in his 2009 taxes.
Seriously. Compare:
“I understand you haven’t been tithing as your religion requires”
“Have you committed any OTHER felonies you feel you should tell us about?”
I don’t think there is any other thing that could compel this guy to take the course he’s taking. There is NO other possible thing hiding that’s as damaging.
Brachiator
@Eli Rabett:
Of course, in Romney’s case, this includes more than just the family home: “Romney’s personal real estate includes six homes: one in La Jolla, two in the Boston area, a ski lodge in Utah and two lakeside residences in New Hampshire.”
So, in Mitten’s case, the share of total taxes from property tax is much more than the average Joe.
Sneaky.
Valdivia
@Applejinx:
it would give new meaning to the phrase ‘I am not a crook’
He sounded a little like that today, just Trust Me.
wrb
@Applejinx:
Well, I think “We’ve discovered that you’ve been deducting $5m a year for the upkeep of your thirteen 600lb Jamaican baby mommas” would confuse his base a little.
muddy
@Valdivia: All that’s missing is the jowl flapping.
Valdivia
@muddy:
give him some time!
muddy
I’m sure he would go for a little “lift” first, if he hasn’t already. Ann looks to me like she has pulled her ponytail a little tighter too.
Valdivia
@muddy:
I am sure she has had botox done, but that doesn’t matter so much to me as her sheer entitlement and sense of ‘it’s my turn’
ugh
NonyNony
@Applejinx:
Eh. I think there’s a good case that there’s something like that in there. But I think it’s just as likely that his poor tithing would come to light and hurt his status among his peers in the Church.
One thing that Romney has shown time and time again is that he seems to be poor at the “gaming out how this will affect me politically” angle of campaigning. But he seems to be pretty good at figuring out how things will hurt him personally.
It’s likely that there something in those tax forms that would hurt his personal status.
Phoenician in a time of Romans
I also think that his word is his bond; so when he says that he checked his tax returns for the past ten years and wants You People to know that his tax returns show that he never paid anything less than 13% in taxes
*Bzzzt* He never said his tax returns said any such thing. Parse it carefully – he actually said ““I did go back and look at my taxes, and, over the past 10 years, I never paid less than 13 percent,”
Massachusetts, for example, has a 6.25% state sales tax. He might be engaging in casuistry which lets him count the direct cost of this tax and the indirect cost on prices of the people he bought fr- well, son of a gun, that’s 12.5% right there…
You’re a politician and a liar. Show us the tax returns, Mitt.
Elie
What also is interesting is that you don’t hear much of a peep from the Republican glitterati anymore. Mitt and Ann seem to be pretty much alone in defending the no tax release argument. Alls I can think is that the experienced politicos are just groaning and wish they had another choice — but it is way too late for that. And the “Boy Blunder”, RyaN is not gonna help much..
muddy
@Valdivia: Indeed, I think she has the snotty entitlement down even more than Mittens. Probably because she bosses domestic servants rather than executives.
I can just imagine what hell it would be to work for her. “Your child had surgery? So what, those sheets won’t iron themselves! And don’t forget extra starch in Mr. Romney’s temple garment. Just be glad you have Medicaid to cover your child’s surgery, soon you won’t be soaking up all our tax monies when we get rid of that. Then what will your excuse be to be an hour late to work? Sniff.”
Valdivia
@muddy:
that’s exactly the vibe I get too. She ain’t closing anything for Mitt she comes off worse than him.
1badbaba3
Jeebus, at this rate they might not even make it TO the convention, never mind November. They are truly not ready for prime time. And they haven’t even gotten to the point where they are gonna try and sell themselves as (not) Bush2 electric boogaloo, ‘cos that’s really all they got, and that’s really all they are. Pass the motherfrkkin’ popcorn please.
sneezy
@ABL:
No one is going to take what you do up with anyone but you, nor is there any reason they should. I don’t understand why you have so much trouble with this concept.
Thoughtcrime
@Applejinx:
I am not a “convicted” crook!
Villago Delenda Est
@Thoughtcrime:
Richard Nixon was never convicted, either.
But we all know he was a crook.
shortstop
@LanceThruster: You have been cracking me up for days.
Jay in Oregon
@sneezy:
This gets discussed in about every second or third ABL thread. John—the owner of the site, who graciously lets her post here?—has no problem with her linking her posts in this manner.
If her posting style is so offensive, you can just click on to the next non-ABL post. Because she isn’t going to change how she posts and Cole isn’t going to force her to change how she does it, so I highly doubt that the people whining in every ABL thread are going to change her mind.
1badbaba3
Hey, ABL trolls, either sack up and step to it, or shut the tuck up. This pig-tails in the inkwell shite is tired, tired, tired. Go help at RedState.
slightly_peeved
@Shawn in ShowMe:
Well, when they’ve lied on a FEC declaration, you may be able to straight-out prosecute them for perjury. Hopefully someone will get back to that.
hep kitty
Starting to feel like I’m watching a bad 70’s sitcom about detached rich white people.
Dennis
@NonyNony:
Eh. I think there’s a good case that there’s something like that in there.
What’s the ‘good case’, NonyNony?
I read and hear the speculation, but what’s the actual case other than your speculation?
slightly_peeved
Is it just me, or is “I don’t believe him for a minute” a really piss weak response to someone accusing you of something? Romney is the one person who doesn’t need to believe or disbelieve Reid’s accusation. He knows. The Romney doth protest too little, in this case.
Phoenician in a time of Romans
The ad I’d like to see:
Dear Mitt,
Obama whipped his out and showed everyone what a man he is. Are you afraid you won’t measure up? Do you have some reason why you and Ryan only show yours to each other so you can admire them in private?
Be a man, Mitt. Drop your secrecy and show us your tax returns.
LanceThruster
@shortstop:
Henry Hill: You’re a pistol, you’re really funny. You’re really funny.
Tommy DeVito: What do you mean I’m funny?
Henry Hill: It’s funny, you know. It’s a good story, it’s funny, you’re a funny guy.
[laughs]
Tommy DeVito: What do you mean, you mean the way I talk? What?
Henry Hill: It’s just, you know. You’re just funny, it’s… funny, the way you tell the story and everything.
Tommy DeVito: [it becomes quiet] Funny how? What’s funny about it?
Anthony Stabile: Tommy no, You got it all wrong.
Tommy DeVito: Oh, oh, Anthony. He’s a big boy, he knows what he said. What did ya say? Funny how?
Henry Hill: Jus…
Tommy DeVito: What?
Henry Hill: Just… ya know… you’re funny.
Tommy DeVito: You mean, let me understand this cause, ya know maybe it’s me, I’m a little fucked up maybe, but I’m funny how, I mean funny like I’m a clown, I amuse you? I make you laugh, I’m here to fuckin’ amuse you? What do you mean funny, funny how? How am I funny?
Henry Hill: Just… you know, how you tell the story, what?
Tommy DeVito: No, no, I don’t know, you said it. How do I know? You said I’m funny. How the fuck am I funny, what the fuck is so funny about me? Tell me, tell me what’s funny!
Henry Hill: [long pause] Get the fuck out of here, Tommy!
Tommy DeVito: [everyone laughs] Ya motherfucker! I almost had him, I almost had him. Ya stuttering prick ya. Frankie, was he shaking? I wonder about you sometimes, Henry. You may fold under questioning.
wrb
@Phoenician in a time of Romans:
There is something about the way Mitt and Paul look together. I think they will become very close friends.
sneezy
@Jay in Oregon:
I wouldn’t call her style “offensive,” although I’ll admit to not liking it much for other reasons. But that’s not what I was commenting on.
The only comments I’ve made in her threads had to do with her saying in effect “Don’t like what I do? Take it up with someone other than me.” That kind of snotty spinelessness just irritates me. But I’ve had my say and will leave it there.
metricpenny
@The Moar You Know:
ABL has explained that John suggested she do this so that she receives a portion of the revenue received from shared ads.
What is your problem with that? How does it harm you?
You sound like a TEA partier — disturbed by someone with less getting a hand-up from someone with more. And it costs nothing but a click.
Just scroll on, scroll on by.
3chordgroove
@Commenting at Balloon Juice Since 1937: I respectfully disagree. I believe that his “charitable donations” to the LDS are right in line with his income – 10% if I’m not mistaken. For his base – already unnereved and suspicious of the Mormon faith – this would be too much to bear.
Dexter's new approach
If Mitt is willing to give us more information on past years’ tax rates, at his word, why not release redacted versions of his returns to verify his claim. They wouldn’t have to show any other data or details to pick apart. This would pull a reversal on Reid at el by clearly refuting the impossibly high (or low) threshold of 0%, and make it more difficult to question his ridiculously low 13% figure, tax shelters, impossibly large IRA/401k, etc.
But he won’t, which tells me he’s clueless and arrogant (fits, so can’t rule out) or bulls-shitting. I’m going with both. I’m fairly certain he is taking the most generous-to-him analysis to get to 13%, and I’m more sure based on the parsed wording of his statements to date. This means including state, local, property, sales, other rich guy’s stuff and maybe even foreign tax (he’s that much of a rich fuck.) The kicker is he decided to add that if you count charity contributions (a tax deduction, not a tax), he was near 20%. That tells me he is out of ammo, it’s all baked in already. I’m too lazy to do the math, but I bet the real number is in the mid-single digits.
And this is before we consider the his other even-more-shady tax shelters and 9-figure 401k.
.
pluege
is there someone that thinks its OK for a multimillionaire making many millions of dollars per year to only pay 13% in taxes while middle-class America pays 25%? And the funniest part is that Mr. tax-loophole is running on closing the budget deficit by…ta-da! closing tax loopholes, the very thing he makes millions of dollars each year exploiting to the hilt.
republicans are bizarre and obviously think we’re stupid as hell.
Triassic Sands
Romney makes tens of millions of dollars a year without raising a finger and he’s proud to have a) paid taxes at a rate of only 13% and b) never paid a penny more than he absolutely had to. I’ll bet self-employed slugs who have to pay the full 15.3% FICA rate are really proud of Mitt for never paying a cent more than was legally required. No Patriot would ever pay a cent, not one effin’ penny more than necessary. After all, what is more American than to beat the IRS every year?
And correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t Mitt avoid FICA taxes altogether (those for Social Security and Medicare) on his millions of dollars of that come from investments?
Mitt, livin’ the good life, on the cheap. Working class dolts are really suckers, no wonder Mitt hates them so much.
e.a.f.
But you see 13% of nothing is still nothing. If he says he never paid less than 13% tax that might well be true, But what amount was taxable. By the time he used all his tax “loopholes”, moved money off shore, he might hve been paying tax on an amount smaller than those working at Wal-Mart.
First we ought to know on what amount mittie was paying this 13% because there is a big differance between paying 13% on $100K & paying 13% on 100million.
So yes mittie could be telling the truth, he just isn’t telling us the whole thing.
bob h
We will find that he never paid less than %13.7 on his adjusted gross income or taxable income, which is what you have left after deductions, losses, etc. His statement does not preclude his basically paying little or essentially no taxes.
LanceThruster
@shortstop: @LanceThruster:
I haven’t seen you around since I posted this. I hope you know this was not snark but a tribute to your warm accolades.