Rush Limbaugh Goes So Godwin that ‘Going Godwin’ Now to Be Called ‘Going Limbaugh’

Because really.

TRANSCRIPT:

LIMBAUGH: Propaganda versus truth — which wins? Well, what did — what was Hitler more concerned with? Propaganda. Did Hitler succeed for a time? Yeah, he did. What was Clinton more concerned with — truth or propaganda? What’s Obama more concerned with — truth or propaganda? Who would you say is winning? Is propaganda winning or truth winning? We, the virtuous ones in our society — we think truth wins. We have this investment in the truth. We think it’s holy. We think that it is profound, and we think it’s persuasive.

I play you three minutes of Wolf Blitzer cleaning Debbie’s clock and I get an email, “No, no, Rush, she — Ryan shreds Medicare was said I don’t know how many times.”

That’s what people are going to hear, because the fear will always trump the good. Because people react to fear.

Setting aside the gall of a person who is fear-mongering in the very clip that he talks about Democrats fear-mongering, and setting aside that Rush is a doucherocket to whom no attention should ever be paid, the simple truth is that Ryan’s plan shreds Medicare. It does! P. Krugz. explains:

Mr. Ryan may claim — and he may even believe — that he’s facing a backlash because his opponents are lying about his proposals. But the reality is that the Ryan plan is turning into a political disaster for Republicans, not because the plan’s critics are lying about it, but because they’re describing it accurately.

Take, for example, the statement that the Ryan plan would end Medicare as we know it. This may have Republicans screaming “Mediscare!” but it’s the absolute truth: The plan would replace our current system, in which the government pays major health costs, with a voucher system, in which seniors would, in effect, be handed a coupon and told to go find private coverage.

The new program might still be called Medicare — hey, we could replace government coverage of major expenses with an allowance of two free aspirins a day, and still call it “Medicare” — but it wouldn’t be the same program. And if the cost estimates of the Congressional Budget Office are at all right, the inadequate size of the vouchers — which by 2030 would cover only about a third of seniors’ health costs — would leave many if not most older Americans unable to afford essential care.

If anyone is lying here, it’s Mr. Ryan himself, who has claimed that his plan would give seniors the same kind of coverage that members of Congress receive — an assertion that is completely false.

I know, I know. It’s Limbaugh. It’s nutpicking.

But in my defense, now that Media Matters has taken to transcribing his fuckery, it’s hard to resist bait like this. (I can only handle Limbaugh in transcribed doses. I refuse to listen to clips of Limbaugh talking lest I be overtaken by the urge to rip off my ears and set them ablaze.) Cut me some slack!

I know I know. It’s Limbaugh.

But —

Ok fine.

[via Media Matters]

[cross-posted at ABLC]






143 replies
  1. 1
    Calouste says:

    I play you three minutes of Wolf Blitzer cleaning Debbie’s clock

    The only way Blitzer is going to clean someone’s clock is if he has a bucket of water and a sponge.

  2. 2
    liberal says:

    We, the virtuous ones in our society—we think truth wins.

    That’s goddamned funny.

  3. 3
    General Stuck says:

    And the beat goes on

    “He seems to have a great family. And I really think he had a great health care plan when he was in Massachusetts. Seems to be working really well — One of the reasons why we set up the same kind of plan nationally and we’re implementing it right now.”

    — President Obama, quoted by Politico, when asked to say something nice about Mitt Romney.

    THIS, is how you eviscerate your opponent without leaving a scar.

  4. 4
    Hill Dweller says:

    This is their new narrative push. They’re claiming the Republicans are telling the truth(while running ads full of lies), while the Dems are lying about everything.

    Romney is repeatedly claiming Obama is lying. Ryan immediately started saying they’re running a campaign of substance, while Dems are lying. The wingnut blogs/cable shows are claiming the Dems are lying liars. A new ad from one of the new wingnut SuperPac ads alleges Obama is lying because he has nothing to run on.

    I think this new talking point is a tacit admission people are starting to view Willard as a lying scumbag. Instead of trying to pull Willard’s approval rating up, they’re going to try to drag Obama’s numbers down by painting him as a liar.

  5. 5
    Turgidson says:

    To paraphrase DougJ: If Rush is whining (angrily and loudly, I assume, but still whining) so desperately that he’s bringing Hitler into it, we’re winning.

  6. 6
    Steve says:

    The irony is Republicans whining “how dare you demagogue our Medicare proposal” at the same time they go around claiming that Obama stole $700 billion from Medicare.

  7. 7
    Baud says:

    It’s pretty clear that the Republican’s strategy this election is going to be “We know you are, but what am I.”

  8. 8
    MikeBoyScout says:

    Oh my!

    Please don’t let RomneyCare enthusiast and Slick Willard’s sad excuse for a press secretary see/hear this. She’ll faint dead away!

  9. 9
    danimal says:

    I love when the noise machine gets so discombobulated that they are forced into Hitler…Clinton…Obama type analogies. It’s so over-the-top that their audience slurps it up while clear-thinking Americans roll their eyes. Keep up the crazy hyperbole, Mr. Limbaugh!

    They’re losing. Badly.

  10. 10
    Bokonon says:

    Like Limbaugh said … we virtuous ones know that the Ryan plan won’t shred Medicare.

    Because we know the truth. We just know it. And nothing can convince us otherwise. Because we are virtuous. And we listen to Rush. We already have the facts.

    On the other hand, that OBAMA is gutting Medicare … gutting it! Gutting it! Gutting it! To give out free birth control to co-eds! And ACORN! ARGHHHH!

  11. 11
    Redshift says:

    @Hill Dweller:

    A new ad from one of the new wingnut SuperPac ads alleges Obama is lying because he has nothing to run on.

    Mitt has been repeating this one for months, projecting that Obama is making false attacks because “he can’t talk about the economy, can’t talk about his record.”

    Of course, in every campaign appearance, Obama talks about the economy and his record.

    I may have missed some instance, but except in cases where they cite bogus Politifart or pinocchio ratings, they don’t seem to actually say what the Democrats are supposedly lying about. Weird.

  12. 12
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    @Calouste:

    The only way Blitzer is going to clean someone’s clock is if he has a bucket of water and a sponge.

    .. and someone’s clock.

  13. 13
    Redshift says:

    The thing that’s so magical about the Ryan plan is that polling shows that even if you describe it in Ryan’s own words, people hate it. Wingnuts will still call it “demonizing” and “lying” no matter what, but quoting from it will be pretty powerful.

  14. 14
    ARoomWithAMoose says:

    Well this is their game plan, if they go hard negative all the time it’ll hopefully (for them) depress voter turn out across the board.

    They’ve got nothing else now since they doubled down on the crazy, and unlike with McCain, the candidate this time is willing to say anything, and the “not coordinated with the campaign” PAC funded air blitz will be pretty much wall-to-wall negativity.

    They’ve got nothing message wise that polls well outside the old white guy demographic.

  15. 15
    Baud says:

    @Redshift:

    even if you describe it in Ryan’s own words

    I expect that the Obama people are slicing Ryan video as we speak.

  16. 16
    Stuck In 60s says:

    Wait until the debates.

    Most challengers need to prove they are Presidential.

    Mitt will need to prove he is human.

    He can’t get through that much time — questions, asides from Obama — without confirming his weirdness and total cluelessness about 99% of humanity.

  17. 17
    beltane says:

    @Hill Dweller: In my own little circle of acquaintances I am seeing signs that the details of the Ryan agenda are beginning to frighten blue-collar Republican voters. Rush and the Romney campaign are probably aware that this could potentially destroy the GOP so their best response is to tell these people “Don’t listen to your libtard co-workers and neighbors; they’re lying to you just like the Kenyan usurper lies to you.”

  18. 18
    gnomedad says:

    @Redshift:
    Someone from the first Daley administration in Chicago once complained that the press should report what Daley meant, not what he said.

  19. 19
    Turgidson says:

    @Redshift:

    Now we just need to find a male Tina Fey to use Paul Ryan’s own words to hilarious effect on Saturday nights from now until the election.

  20. 20
    beltane says:

    @Redshift: Any rank-and-file wingnut who ventures out of the Limbaugh/Fox cocoon even briefly is going to be confronted with the terrifying dystopian vision of Ryan’s plan. The GOP propaganda machine will do everything in its power to keep these people believing that two plus two is five. If they fail in this mission they are pretty much done for.

  21. 21
    Baud says:

    @Stuck In 60s:

    Mitt will need to prove he is human.

    He will fail.

  22. 22
    runt says:

    We, the virtuous ones in our society…”

    Give the man this: He is really, really funny.

  23. 23

    @Baud:

    It’s pretty clear that the Republican’s strategy this election century is going to be “We know you are, but what am I.”

    FTFY.

  24. 24

    These people are fucking sick. We have to remember that, these fuckers are fucking sick.

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/201.....le-threat/

  25. 25
    Poopyman says:

    The only conclusion I can come to about the Ryan plan is that this is the Republican stealth euthanasia strategy for seniors. Is that irresponsible to speculate?

    Also,

    We, the virtuous ones in our society—we think truth wins. We have this investment in the truth. We think it’s holy. We think that it is profound, and we think it’s persuasive.

    sounds mighty familiar from a group back in the 30s and 40s. Maybe it’s because the post is about Godwinning, but there’s this strong familiarity….

  26. 26
    the Conster says:

    Mitt’s going to get crushed. He’s so in over his head right now – Obama’s in his OODA loop, and the only question left is how big he loses, and who gets blamed.

    We’re gonna need a bigger popcorn bowl.

    ETA watching Game Change now again for the umpteenth time, and it’s deja vu all over again. Also too.

  27. 27
    Bubblegum Tate says:

    During the Clinton years, I would’ve said that Rush doesn’t believe much of what he says–that he’s just doing a schtick to get paid. But today? I dunno…he’s been marinating in his bullshit so long and has sequestered himself from the real world so thoroughly that he might just believe his own rhetoric.

  28. 28
    beltane says:

    @Poopyman: Look on the bright side. If Paul Ryan gets his way millions may perish but at least we can look forward to some future government outlawing the GOP altogether.

  29. 29
    22over7 says:

    I don’t know, it seems kind of extreme, but maybe it’s not such a bad strategy. “Everything he says is a lie!”

    They’re trying to put Obama on defense, which is where he needs to be for any hope of a R/R victory.

    Of course, all Obama needs to do is to look Romney (or Rush, for that matter) in the eye and say, “I’m lying.”

    Remember what happened to Yul Brenner.

  30. 30
    Mr Stagger Lee says:

    @beltane: Personally I like to see this dystopian, first used on those Red State Farmers, who cheered Limpballs, these same yokels who called Al Gore fat, railed at the Kenyan Sochialist and now will be coming hat in hand begging for that “gubinment” to help them in this time of drought. Let these Hayseeds learn about Ayn Rand on their own hides as Sebastian D’Aconia would say.

  31. 31
    Caz says:

    Medicare “as we know it” is not sustainable. So we need to change it. What’s wrong with providing vouchers directly to people so they can choose their own providers? Is your problem with the size of those vouchers or with the voucher idea itself?

    And I don’t recall you having a problem with Obama taking money from medicare to pay for Obamacare. If you’re so worried about any changes to medicare, then I’d think you’d be a little concerned that our current president is essentially robbing it to pay for a health care system that is far worse than anything we have today.

    At least vouchers let people choose stuff for themselves.

    Check out Britain’s or Canada’s health care system and you’ll see how far worse off they are. They get it free, but they have to wait forever to see a substandard doctor. Not a good system.

    Govt should get out of the private market in all areas, not just health care. Every time govt gets involved, it gets worse and then the govt comes up with solutions for the problems they caused. It’s all designed to get govt in control of everything more and more. Wake up.

  32. 32
    Mike in NC says:

    ‘Going Godwin’ Now to Be Called ‘Going Limbaugh’

    Before I reached for my reading glasses, I thought that said ‘Goering Limbaugh’.

  33. 33
    Mike in NC says:

    @Bubblegum Tate:

    …he’s been marinating in his bullshit so long and has sequestered himself from the real world so thoroughly that he might just believe his own rhetoric.

    Kinda like the Mittster himself.

  34. 34

    @Caz:
    Congratulations! You managed to hit every talking point in order. Did you write that rebuttal yourself or did you get it off a script?

  35. 35
    beltane says:

    @Mr Stagger Lee: These idiots will be stunned to learn that the Republicans have it in for them and not just “those people”.

  36. 36
    eric says:

    @Mike in NC: that is a double-godwin….nice play. ::golf clap::

  37. 37
    raven says:

    @Caz: Where ya been shithead?

  38. 38
    Baud says:

    @22over7:

    Remember what happened to Yul Brenner.

    Or Harry Mudd.

  39. 39
    artem1s says:

    @Hill Dweller:

    they’re going to try to drag Obama’s numbers down by painting him as a liar.

    and is this the set up for Mitt’s parroting Raygun’s ‘there you go again’?

  40. 40
    Lojasmo says:

    @Turgidson:

    Fred armison should do nicely.

  41. 41
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    OK, time to play the “When will Rush use the N-word” guessing game again.

    Now that he’s gone Godwin on us, the other event cannot be too far off.

    I say by mid September. Call it the 17th.

  42. 42
    MikeJ says:

    @Hill Dweller:

    This is their new narrative push. They’re claiming the Republicans are telling the truth(while running ads full of lies), while the Dems are lying about everything.

    How is this new? They’ve been going non stop since before McCain lost so big.

  43. 43
    dance around in your bones says:

    Rush Limbaugh is like the salad shooter of lies – stick in a cucumber at one end and multiple slices o’ lies shoot out the other end.

    Plus – “WE, the virtuous ones?” Yeah, we all have our maids scoring hillbilly heroin in a back parking lot of a hotel, because we are so fucking virtuous.

  44. 44
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @General Stuck:

    THIS, is how you eviscerate your opponent without leaving a scar.

    I’m thinking’ Edward II here.

  45. 45
    Yutsano says:

    @Caz: You have absolutely zero idea what you’re talking about. Both Canada and Great Britain are extremely proud of their health care systems, to the point where even thinking about eliminating them guarantees a party will lose big come next election. I had a friend who had skin cancer in Vancouver. His time from diagnosis to surgery was 3 weeks. You can’t even get that down here. And it didn’t have a single expense on his part. Not to mention he saw world class oncologists. Get out of your fucking talking points. And ohj yeah four more years of a black President. Suck. It. Up.

  46. 46
    Baud says:

    OT: Yay Costco.

    Former Costco CEO and co-founder Jim Sinegal endorsed the president’s economic policies and bid for a second term in an email message Monday night to be blasted out by the Obama campaign.
    . . . .
    “You might be seeing some ads or hearing some folks say that President Obama doesn’t support small business owners,” Sinegal wrote. “But he understands that small businesses grow and prosper because of individual initiative – because entrepreneurs like you and me do the hard work it takes, and we can’t do it alone.”

  47. 47
    Mr Stagger Lee says:

    @Caz: As a resident of Washington State if what in Canada was true, Canadians would flood the border going to every hospital from Blaine to Tacoma. Hell the hospital chains would be building a massive hospital complexes on the American side of the border east to west. Then again why do Canadians have a higher life expectancy than Americans. No dessert for you!

  48. 48
    Hill Dweller says:

    @Caz: Medicare’s effectiveness is largely the result of pooling millions of people together and using their purchasing power to leverage lower prices.

    If you give someone a voucher, they’re going to spend more out of pocket because the coupon/voucher won’t cover all their costs, plus their actual medical care will cost more because they aren’t part of a larger pool any longer.

    Moreover, medicare guarantees quality, affordable healthcare. A voucher/coupon just guarantees health insurance, no healthcare.

    As for ‘the Obama stole money from Medicare’ bullshit, they slowed the rate of cost growth. There were no cuts. And their reforms didn’t touch benefits. They actually saved seniors billions by fixing the Medicare part D doughnut hole and made check ups free of co-pays.

    Finally, as we saw with Medicare Advantage(which ‘let’s people choose stuff’), the private sector is far more expensive than Medicare. In fact, Medicare, Medicaid and the VA have controlled cost growths far more effectively than private sector, while still providing quality care.

  49. 49
    Baud says:

    @Yutsano:

    Both Canada and Great Britain are extremely proud of their health care systems,

    GB freaking celebrated the NHS during the opening ceremonies.

  50. 50
    MikeJ says:

    @Yutsano: Dave Cameron called the Tories “the party of the NHS.” This was a defensive ploy because in the election everybody claimed that he would destroy the NHS. What do you think he’s tried to do everyday since he was elected?

    Conservatives are the same all over the world. They want to take credit for popular programs at the same time they try to destroy them.

  51. 51
    the Conster says:

    @dance around in your bones:

    It’s always, always projection. He means liberals. “Liberals, the virtuous ones”… Projection is usually clearer when they’re accusatory.

  52. 52
    japa21 says:

    I am sure, as soon as Congress is back in session, they will pass a bill censuring Limbaugh…IIRC, the Republicans are big on censuring Hitler comparisons.

    I love, BTW, Caz’s first arguement as to why not vouchers so people can see the doctor’s they want. The fact that they can see the doctor’s they want now appears to be irrelevant. In fact, they have a wider selection under Medicare than under the Medicare Advantage plans.

  53. 53
    eric says:

    @Mr Stagger Lee: Build a fence!

  54. 54
    Patricia Kayden says:

    I’ll never understand the lure of Limbaugh. Even if he were on the left, I wouldn’t like him. Obnoxious, loud, stupid, and egotistical. Nothing to like at all.

    And he’s the perfect one to blather on about Hitler.

  55. 55
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Hill Dweller:

    There you go, bringing those stubborn facts into this, polluting Caz’s carefully tailored talking points.

    OK, polluting is the wrong word.

    Annihilating is the correct word.

  56. 56
    raven says:

    Romney just told the Prez to take his campaign of hate back to Chicago.

  57. 57
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @japa21:

    Actually, in some cases they can’t see the doctor they want, because their insurance company dictates which doctors the insurance company will deal with.

    But private for profit bureaucrats don’t count as bureaucrats to morans like Caz.

  58. 58
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @raven:

    Delicious.

    OvenMitt is going to be all whine, all the time from here on out.

    Good thing he picked Ryan. He can have cheese with his whine.

  59. 59
    Mnemosyne (iPhone) says:

    Report from my Republican parents: my mom is now willing to admit Obama is a nice guy (though she still doesn’t think one of Those People should be representing our country) and she really, really hates Romney for being a Mormon.

  60. 60
    Abijah L. says:

    @Caz: Seniors, almost by definition, have pre-existing conditions. Health insurance on the free market is not readily available for people with pre-existing conditions. I could give you examples from my patients and from my family of people who were denied the opportunity to buy insurance because of completely non-threatening conditions. The for-profit insurance industry is non-functional in its current configuration.

    Quoting the leader of the Republic party is not nut-picking.

  61. 61
  62. 62
    raven says:

    @Abijah L.: Why would you try to talk sense to that douche bag?

  63. 63
    John O says:

    I don’t mean to troll, but I think the BJ World is sorely underestimating Ryan’s appeal. His politics won’t matter to a large extent with the American public, particularly since the Village is shooting their collective loads over him. This is where most American’s get their news.

    He’s a sane, though horribly misguided, handsome, articulate spokesperson. A VERY good politician.

    Hitler was a great politician. To continue the Godwin.

    Ryan, frankly, scares the snot of out me. He’s a smooth-talkin’, handsome, fit, major league prick, and I never underestimate the intelligence of the American public. And 51-49 isn’t going to be good enough in the long run.

    I’ll say this: At least this election is going to be about Big Stuff. If the GOP sweeps, I would encourage the Dems to completely capitulate, and make a very big deal about it, so that there are tent cities in the Mall by the end of Romney’s first term, employment numbers crash (though who knows), and the deficit explodes. This, to me, is our long-term hope.

  64. 64
    Hill Dweller says:

    @raven:

    Romney just told the Prez to take his campaign of hate back to Chicago.

    As I was saying up thread, they’re going to try to portray Obama as the one running a dirty campaign, while simultaneously running a dirty campaign and airing commercials full of lies.

  65. 65
    eric says:

    @raven: at least he did not tell him to take it back to africa — yet.

  66. 66
    22over7 says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Patricia, it’s all about angry white guys. Rush tapped into that rancid pool of wasted testosterone and has kept them angry for what, 30 years now.

    He’s the perfect guy for it. College dropout, draft dodger, couldn’t hold down a job, can’t keep a wife, missed out on fatherhood, but lucked into this zeitgeist and now he talks every day to his guys, telling them why they’re not losers, why it’s all those other people who ruined it for them.

  67. 67
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @dance around in your bones:

    stick in a cucumber at one end

    Eeewwwwwwww!!

  68. 68
    Baud says:

    @raven:

    Romney just told the Prez to take his campaign of hate back to Chicago.

    Barack Obama has a deep-seated hatred for white people and white culture.

  69. 69
    dance around in your bones says:

    @the Conster: Projection, thy name is LIE. And put all the blame on the other guy.

    I really and truly despise the Rush Limbaughs of the world. Because, you know, I don’t think he really believes this shit he spews. He just doesn’t give a crap, because he’s got his $400 mil and he can keep selling the bullshit to the rubes and keep collecting the ducats.

    The fucker. Twist and crisp in hell (if it exists) Limburger.

  70. 70
    japa21 says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: That is why the selection is wider in Medicare than Medicare Advantage plans. A lot of docs that are in Medicare that do not want to belong to Med Ad networks. There are none in Med Ad plans that do not belong with Medicare.

  71. 71
    eric says:

    @John O: he has never run a statewide campaign, much less a national campaign. there is reason that there have been NO representatives on any ticket in at least 100 years, much less a successful ticket. it is a different skill and requires endurance of a sort that the indulged do not have. I am not worried. he does not have the benefit of speaking at mickey mouse events in iowa or NH to get his chops up to speed. dont worry.

  72. 72
    joel hanes says:

    @Caz:

    [British and Candadians] have to wait forever to see a substandard doctor.

    Lie.

  73. 73
    PurpleGirl says:

    Over at The Mahablog, Barbara O’Brien has posted an Obama campaign clip from Iowa. Good stuff, really good stuff. He has the crowd eating out of his hand by the end. He asks if there are any people there who make more than $3 million a year, seems to point to someone in the back of the hall and says he could use a donation…

    http://www.mahablog.com/

    Look for “He said trickle down fairy dust.”

  74. 74
    John O says:

    @eric:

    “Don’t worry.”

    That’s a lot like telling a chronic depressive to “have a nice day.”

    We’ll see. I hope you’re right with all my heart and soul.

  75. 75
  76. 76
    Weaselone says:

    @Caz:

    Voucher Care is not sustainable. The total cost of providing equivalent medical care for elderly (government+out of pocket) will significantly exceed that of the current system.

    Obama did not steal any money from Medicare. What he did was implement policies that reduce the future increases in Medicare expenses going forward. This comes in the form of reduced payments to providers, and equalizing Medicare Advantage with standard Medicare along with other smaller tweaks. It does not cut benefits to the actual Medicare recipients. When exactly did efficiency become theft?

    What sort of choice are you talking about here? People still get to choose their actual healthcare providers under Medicare. They could also still choose to go with private plans if they wanted to fork over the extra cash. The only choice you’re talking about here is for seniors to pay significantly more out of pocket for the same or inferior coverage or go without.

    Your comment about inferior doctors and long waits is pure, unadulterated bullshit. For non elective surgeries, the wait in Canada and the UK is essentially equivalent to what we have here and the people in these nations receive an extremely high level of care. In addition, there actually is still a private system outside of the public one in these countries, if you have the money to take advantage of it.

    I think you should take your own advice and wake up. Private markets have failed consistently and spectacularly throughout history. I mean for fuck’s suck they were selling rotten dairy goods to poor people in New York City before the government intervened.

  77. 77
    dance around in your bones says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Sorry – that was kind of deliberate though, I must say ;)

  78. 78
    Baron Elmo says:

    @Caz:

    Someone here has been getting all his data from Fox News and Romney ads.

    And I don’t recall you having a problem with Obama taking money from medicare to pay for Obamacare. If you’re so worried about any changes to medicare, then I’d think you’d be a little concerned that our current president is essentially robbing it to pay for a health care system that is far worse than anything we have today.

    Wow, that’s a big shiny FAILsicle you’re licking on, pally. You do realize that this stupid right-wing talking point has been debunked to hell and back, right?

    Check out Britain’s or Canada’s health care system and you’ll see how far worse off they are. They get it free, but they have to wait forever to see a substandard doctor. Not a good system.

    Don’t know who you are, but I do know this: you have NEVER “checked out” the Canadian or British health care system. You speak from a world- no, a galaxy of rock-headed ignorance.

    Still, I’m glad you’re here, Caz. The laughs are hugely appreciated.

  79. 79
    Steve says:

    While the substantive responses to Caz were on-point, it might be Romney and Ryan themselves who provide the strongest counter-argument to Vouchercare. Even though this plan is supposedly awesome for seniors – we’re finally empowering them by giving them “choice”! – Romney and Ryan are solemnly vowing that not a single person who is currently 55 or older will ever be subjected to these reforms.

    If vouchers are going to be a better deal for everyone, and we’re all going to be bathing in free-market pixie dust, then why the insistence on exempting every single person born before 1957? Here’s the thing: if people age 55 and up have a huge problem with trading in Medicare for a voucher, so will everyone else.

  80. 80
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @Caz: And the first mother-fucking idiot of the evening shows up. Who had 31 in the pool?

  81. 81
    raven says:

    @Steve: Fuck a substantive response to that asshole.

  82. 82
    raven says:

    @Uncle Cosmo: That’s the kind of substance I’m talkin bout!

  83. 83
  84. 84
    Mnemosyne (iPhone) says:

    @John O:

    He’s a sane, though horribly misguided, handsome, articulate spokesperson. A VERY good politician.

    I just watched Bill O’Reilly’s show and he showed clips of Ryan’s interview with Brit Hume. Frankly, Ryan looked like a deer in the headlights. And if he can barely get through being fed his lines from Hume, he ain’t ready for prime time.

  85. 85
    trollhattan says:

    @Caz:
    May I subscribe to your newsletter?

  86. 86
    Hill Dweller says:

    If the wingnuts were really concerning about the sustainability of Medicare, they’d open it up to people of all ages. Instead of having to solely provide healthcare for the most expensive(by far) demographic in healthcare, they’d put younger, healthier people in the system, which would offset some of the costs.

    This gets back to socializing the losses and privatizing the profits. The insurance companies can pawn off the most expensive people(sick, elderly, poor, etc.) to the government, while taking the younger, healthier people, who pay more in than they take out, for themselves, reaping millions in profits.

  87. 87
    eric says:

    @eric: one more thing John O….here is the dynamic to watch for: In the event that Romney/Ryan are going down, then look for GOPers running to avoid joint appearance to avoid the stank and so that they can run on “local” issues. The real fear for the GOP is getting clobbered down ballot.

  88. 88
    Turgidson says:

    He’s a sane, though horribly misguided, handsome, articulate spokesperson. A VERY good politician.

    He wasn’t even articulate enough to get through an interview with Brit f’in Hume today. Brit. Hume.

    And really, the only political skills we know he has are to sweet-talk innumerate morons in Washington into saying nice things about him. He hasn’t had to do retail campaigning, he hasn’t had to debate a formidable opponent like Biden, he hasn’t been put through the kind of press scrutiny he’ll get (even if they treat him with kid gloves, it’s still more than he’s dealt with so far).

    I’d be more worried about the granny starver if he really was a blank slate. He’d basically be a male Palin who is capable of stringing together lucid sentences, and that might be enough to skate by. But his ideas are out there in all their cruel, inhuman glory. They already poll horribly. He has all kinds of hard-right anti-reproductive rights bullshit in his record that will make women run screaming in horror. He supported the Iraq War without a peep. Hell, he supported all of Bush’s budget-busting escapades without a peep. He has stated on the public record about a dozen times that Ayn Rand is his hero. The public will be learning about these things in more detail.

    Some enclaves of the media already are, to their credit, actually telling it like it is about his granny-starving policies. That’s a good sign for us and should only improve as the honeymoon ends and the Obama campaign rolls out its demolition of the granny starver and all he stands for. And they will.

  89. 89
    John O says:

    Already read the TPM article, thanks.

    Again, I hope you’re all correct. I just don’t think so. My (limited) understanding of history is that the rich always win until things get violent.

    An Obama blowout would give me a lot of heart, that’s for sure. I just don’t see it, unless something dramatically favorable happens in the interim.

  90. 90
    chopper says:

    @raven:

    that’s going to go over well. the only people who watch the president speak and think ‘hater’ are the guys whose votes you really don’t have to worry about, mittens.

  91. 91
    raven says:

    @chopper: Get used to it, it will be a central theme for the next 12 weeks.

  92. 92
    Lockewasright says:

    I oppose everything that pill addicted windbag ever says, but I cannot stand Godwin. As a formerly jewish person, I was raised to be all about “never again”. How are we supposed to be super vigilant about “never again” when any attempt to point it out if it comes back will be immediately dismissed by some moron shouting “Godwin” and everyone else mindlessly agreeing because… well… GODWIN!

  93. 93
    chopper says:

    @Weaselone:

    When exactly did efficiency become theft?

    do you really need to ask?

  94. 94
    John O says:

    @Turgidson:

    Geez, T, you think most of the conservative electorate has read Atlas Shrugged? They’re too fucking stupid to get through something that long, and too fucking immature to understand that it’s fantasy-fiction, no different than Harry Potter at its essence.

    I still think many of you are guilty of one of my life’s founding principles: We all wish everyone else was as smart as we are.

    Again, I hope I’m wrong. I mean, I REALLY hope I’m wrong. But I’ll put my money in stock if Romney wins, and hope for the best, personally. We will, after all, be on our own.

  95. 95
    AHH onna Droid says:

    @raven: Gave up on firebagging, I see, and letting it all hang out. Whoever here insisted that ‘baggers and purity trolls were republican plants was so, so right.

  96. 96
    Hill Dweller says:

    @Steve:

    If vouchers are going to be a better deal for everyone, and we’re all going to be bathing in free-market pixie dust, then why the insistence on exempting every single person born before 1957? Here’s the thing: if people age 55 and up have a huge problem with trading in Medicare for a voucher, so will everyone else.

    Obviously, this is a tell. But even this policy will affect current Medicare users, because the pool of users will continually shrink, reducing their purchasing power and raising out of pocket expenses. Congress won’t step up and cover the cost increase because the political power of Medicare users will also continue to shrink.

  97. 97
    raven says:

    @AHH onna Droid: Notice it was just a drive-by.

  98. 98
    beltane says:

    @Baron Elmo: Caz, like most other Republicans, knows just as much about the outside world as the average North Korean. He has no clue as to how ridiculous he sounds to those of us who have friends and family who live in other countries.

  99. 99
    Svensker says:

    @Caz:

    Check out Britain’s or Canada’s health care system and you’ll see how far worse off they are. They get it free, but they have to wait forever to see a substandard doctor. Not a good system.

    Big fat lie.

    True story: had an appt with my Toronto GP a few weeks ago. For some reason, I thought the appt was at 10:00 AM and it was actually for 11:00. I decided to just hang out in the waiting area for the hour (good magazine selection!)…and the doctor CAME OUT and APOLOGIZED to ME for making me wait, even though the error was mine. The staff nearly had to treat me for shock.

  100. 100
    El Cid says:

    @Lockewasright: I hate this inane invocation of “Godwin”.

    Godwin was the source of a trivial fucking quip about how bulletin board discussions tended to go.

    It isn’t a fucking prescription from someone worth listening to on when and how to reference one of the major political and social movements of the early 20th century in Western and Central Europe and in a different way Latin America in the late 20th century — Fascism.

    “Godwin!” like it’s some sort of religious rule. The moment someone whines “Godwin”, I know not to pay attention to the whiner.

  101. 101
    El Cid says:

    I HAV NAOW TYPED A LOT ON HOW OUR MEDICAL ROCKS AND OTHER COUNTRIES ARE KILLD BY SOSHULMUNISM, AND YET I STILL HAV TO WAIT FOR MY 15 CENTS

  102. 102
    suzanne says:

    @Baud: Just another reason I love Costco!

  103. 103
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @dance around in your bones:

    Oh yeah … I did see what you did there. But still, Eeeeeewwwww.

  104. 104
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @El Cid:

    Here, have a slice of pizza.

  105. 105
    Emma says:

    @Caz: Jesus. OK. I’m going to assume you’re Doug in disguise. Otherwise, you should really introduce the Alternate Reality you come from.

  106. 106
    Lockewasright says:

    @El Cid: rAmen!

  107. 107
    different-church-lady says:

    @John O:

    His politics won’t matter to a large extent with the American public, particularly since the Village is shooting their collective loads over him. This is where most American’s get their news.

    It ain’t 2004 anymore. By the time Obama’s done framing the guy as a granny killer, it ain’t gonna matter one whit what the Village thinks. For two reasons: (1) People don’t have the luxury of listening to the Village in stressed financial times. They’re paying attention to the very stuff that was in Ryan’s budget because they’ve had four years of that stuff mattering to them directly and (2) Obama is going to make it more fun for the Village to beat up on Ryan than lick him, because there’s nothing they like better than an alpha dog.

  108. 108
    dmsilev says:

    @Lockewasright: Godwin’s Law, in it’s original form, was descriptive. It said, more or less, that any given argument on the Internet would sooner or later involve someone calling someone else a Nazi. I’ve been reading internet forums of various sorts for probably 20 years now, and the original form of Godwin’s Law is pretty accurate.

    It later acquired a second prescriptive part, which was that the person calling someone else a Nazi was implicitly admitting that they had no more arguments to make and were conceding defeat.

  109. 109
    T_Malone says:

    @Caz: @Caz:

    Well Caz as a Canadian you really made me laugh but then again I have access to quality BC bud. Did the Frumster reject your application or what?

  110. 110
    T_Malone says:

    @Caz: @Caz:

    Well Caz as a Canadian you really made me laugh but then again I have access to quality BC bud. Did the Frumster reject your application or what?

  111. 111
    T_Malone says:

    @Caz:

    Well Caz as a Canadian you really made me laugh but then again BC bud is amongst the best. Did the Frumster reject your application or what?

  112. 112
    John O says:

    @different-church-lady:

    I hope you’re right, too.

    One thing I’ve always said about Obama, including here, is that he’s a pretty much a bad-ass politician with velvet gloves. I played a lot basketball in downtown Chicago in my youth, and you had better learn to take it and dish it out in that ‘hood. Talkin’ and takin’ smack is built into his DNA, and he’s good at it.

    I predict highest VP and POTUS debate ratings, ever. It’s going to be interesting, at least.

    But I still think you’re being way overconfident by underestimating Ryan’s personal appeal, politics aside. I hope Biden holds the cards close to the vest and doesn’t whip out the fact that Ryan would criminalize abortion recipients if he had his way. That would be good TV.

  113. 113
    Turgidson says:

    @John O:

    Maybe not most. But a fair number at least know enough about Rand to dislike her sick ideas. And besides, that was just one example of many as to why I think the granny starver will crash and burn. Social insurance programs are popular. This sick fuck wants to kill them. The voters will learn about this.

  114. 114
    El Cid says:

    Republican going after other Republican in Florida for plotting to kill old people with robot cars.

    Google’s driverless cars have a “license to drive” in the state of Nevada, but if you ask Republican state Rep. Jim Frische in Florida, folks are trying to give the cars a “license to kill” (like 007) in his state.
    __
    That’s the message driven home in his attack ad against his opponent, fellow Republican Jeff Brandes. The pair are facing-off in a primary which is taking place today.
    __
    Earlier, Brandes sponsored HB 1207, a bill which would legalize the operation of autonomous vehicles on public roads in the state. That is much the same as the law which has been enacted in Nevada.
    __
    The “Vehicles with Autonomous Technology” bill is still pending before the Florida legislature…
    __
    The ad shows an empty (completely empty) Prius speeding around a neighborhood, nearly taking out Grandma who is using a walker, no less. The implication is clear: Granny better watch out for these driverless vehicles.
    __
    In the middle of the ad, we hear that Brandes wants to legalize “driverless, remote-controlled cars” and that Brandes “had to convince the [state] senate it wasn’t witchcraft.”

    But, you know, Harry Reid and Romney’s taxes, and that ad about the guy whose wife died from undiagnosed cancer after Bain eliminated his job and thus health insurance, so, um, both sides do it.

  115. 115
    Jay C says:

    @different-church-lady:

    @John O:

    And just to add: The Beltway Village may be thoroughly in the tank for Republicans (or at least have to act that way for their corporate masters) – but one thing they love more than a broad-shouldered Randian-hero conservative is a winner; and if the R/R ticket continues to lag in the polls by early October, the Villagers will (grudgingly but surely) get over their crushes, and probably devote their coverage of the latter part of the Campaign to oh-so-Serious tut-tutting about whatever excuses they want to make up about the level(s) of Republican FAIL – while, no doubt, barraging the WH about scoring choice invites to Obama’s Re-Inaugural Ball(s)…

  116. 116
    John O says:

    To all:

    I would say I have a distinct lack of Hope at this point in my life.

    Good on ya for trying to give me some. But 90% of the Village Idiots are creaming their jeans/skirts for the Vulture/Voucher economic proposals.

  117. 117
    johnny umpqua says:

    @eric: Well, Chicago = Inner City Ghetto = Packed pimpmobile-to-crackhouse with Ni*Clang*s = close enough in winger white peoples’ minds to be indistinguishable from Africa.

    So, yeah, he was telling O. to go back to Africa.

  118. 118
    Gravenstone says:

    That bloated sack of shit Limpballs wouldn’t recognize the truth if it bit him on his shriveled, syphilitic cock.

  119. 119
    pk says:

    To everyone who is trying to intelligently answer caz. You know he really doesn’t want an answer don’t you?

  120. 120
    Soylent Green says:

    Most Americans have never heard of Paul Ryan. Some Americans have never heard of Mitt Romney. Half of these people will vote in November. Many people pay no attention to politics until the conventions or the debates or a week before the vote. Of course some of these people are idiots. But many are our smart, competent, hard-working friends and neighbors who simply don’t take the time to think about any of this jazz until its almost time to vote. To BJers, this is unfathomable. Tomorrow I could ask my coworkers what they think of the Ryan budget and most of them would say “the what what?” Ironically, we are federal employees.

    Ryan just got the nod and needs some training and practice. By September he will have his game on. The rethugs will get their message out, and many of the yet to be informed voters will be swayed by it. The message will be The economy sucks; let’s give someone else a chance to fix it. The message will be The government wastes our money; let’s start running it like a business. The message will be What about our grandchildren; we can’t leave this growing debt to them. It will be delivered by a couple of presidential-looking white guys who don’t have foreign-sounding names. And the GOP will enjoy more than a little success in suppressing Democratic voters.

    How will the swing states swing? It’s too early to say. But those of you who are crowing that it’s over, Ryan’s a joke and Romney is toast, are whistling past the graveyard.

  121. 121
    Shawn in ShowMe says:

    @John O:

    I would say I have a distinct lack of Hope at this point in my life.

    Twenty-five years of Dems turning the other cheek will do that to a fella. Homey don’t play that now.

  122. 122
    CardinalRed says:

    @Caz: You are WRONG. I am Canadian and you are full of shit. I have had excellent care all my life, including a stint in intensive care in my youth, and not one penny in bills. Never had to worry about going bankrupt for getting sick. That’s messed.

  123. 123
    CardinalRed says:

    @Svensker: See! They. Made. You. Wait.

  124. 124
    Mike in NC says:

    @John O:

    90% of the Village Idiots are creaming their jeans/skirts for the Vulture/Voucher economic proposals.

    The Village Idiots are exactly that; nobody 20 miles outside of the Beltway cares what they think. Ryan was rolled out just three days ago, and when the O Team is done with him he’ll be a greasy smudge on the sidewalk. As for how smart, handsome, and articulate the schmuck is: oh, please!

  125. 125
    Dexter's new approach says:

    @Caz:
    Check out Britain’s or Canada’s health care system and you’ll see how far worse off they are. They get it free, but they have to wait forever to see a substandard doctor. Not a good system.
    Govt should get out of the private market in all areas, not just health care. Every time govt gets involved, it gets worse and then the govt comes up with solutions for the problems they caused. It’s all designed to get govt in control of everything more and more. Wake up.

    I think you need the wake up call. I’m not going to waste time defending the solid HC systems in CAN and the UK, because neither is the model the U.S. is moving towards. Think Germany or the Netherlands, with many privately run choices for citizens.

    I have researched healthcare for 12 years, and it’s obvious to me and almost everyone that has done the same work that the U.S. system is the most flawed, underperforming system in the developed world.

    The U.S. pays 15-40% more for drugs and devices than a tiny country, govt run systems despite having a virtual (40% buying share in most cases) monopsony. Medicare pays the bills, but lets each hospital negotiate the price with no buying leverage and no price transparency (it’s in the contracts that they can’t go public with the price) Medicare comes out with next year’s reimbursement based on last year’s cost and the private insurers pay 10-15% more. That’s how it’s done. The Rs have fought direct pricing negotiating to protect industry profits.

    Anyone that knows anything about HC insurance knows that there are not enough financial incentives to manage patients to better outcomes long-term. People change plans when they change jobs, so it’s a short term commitment. And in the non-employer-based market, their main goal is to avoid taking on a potentially costly patients – the infamous 20% that make 80% of costs. A public option, where the govt negotiated prices and worked towards long-term outcomes, would blow away the current system. I mean even Rs knew this and said so.

  126. 126
    El Cid says:

    @pk: He wants his BitCoins.

  127. 127
    jshooper says:

    more like going greenwald

  128. 128
    El Cid says:

    @CardinalRed: You have just been propagandized by the soshullist tyranny you live under up there in Canadialand. If you could be snapped out of it, you would suddenly see that you are a detached head kept alive in a jar in a Stalinist Sudoku production farm.

  129. 129
    Suffern Ace says:

    @El Cid: When you find yourself Defending your program against charges of witchcraft, are you winning or losing?

  130. 130
    catclub says:

    @Steve: “Here’s the thing: if people age 55 and up have a huge problem with trading in Medicare for a voucher, so will everyone else.”

    Also, those under 55 will start asking pointed questions about why they are paying the same tax rates but getting far less out of the system. They have been paying in for 30-40 years already.

  131. 131
    Dexter's new approach says:

    And I want to add that the “free market” Medicare Advantage (MA) was a complete fail.

  132. 132
    patroclus says:

    @eric: William Miller and Geraldine Ferraro were both sitting House Members when they were on their respective tickets in 1964 and 1988. Of course, they didn’t win, which was your point, but you said that there haven’t been any on tickets at all.

  133. 133
    Rathskeller says:

    @japa21: The vouchers in Ryan’s plans are not to doctors, the vouchers are for insurance companies.

    Most seniors will be completely SOL under this arrangement. it’s like walking into a Mexican rug store and announcing “Hey, I’ve got $500 in my pocket. Say, how much are those rugs over there??” The healthiest seniors might be ok, the sickest would be rejected by for-profit insurance companies.

  134. 134
    El Cid says:

    @catclub:

    They have been paying in for 30-40 years already.

    SSHHHHHH!!! Stop with all the facts & stuff! You’ll get in the way! We got to ge rid of all these old fashioned, old-timey bygone era programs like Social Security and Medicare ’cause we’re new and hip and got to adapt and whatever!

  135. 135
    xian says:

    @Lockewasright: all Godwin said was that a sufficiently long flamewar would eventually yield a nazi reference.

  136. 136

    […] ticket. it is a different skill and requires … … Go here to see the original: Balloon Juice » Blog Archive » Rush Limbaugh Goes So Godwin … ← Romney Hits Obama for Cutting $716 Billion From Medicare to Pay for […]

  137. 137
    Donald G says:

    Is there a larger practitioner of Joesph Goebbels’s Big Lie Technique on the mainstream American airwaves than Rush Limbaugh?

  138. 138
    E S Holmans says:

    @joel hanes: @Baron Elmo:
    I’m an American ex-pat, turning 60 this year. I just had minor surgery, and chickened out and went private (it’s from my husband’s employer. Even with insurance, this is going to cost ME over £300. I’m never going private again. The NHS is marvellous, staffed by caring hurses and competent, some of then world-class, doctors.

    If Romney becomes president, I will not be able to afford health care. Yes, I pay 35 percent in taxes, but I can afford to. I can’t afford to pay £2500 for routine surgery in the United States; I’m disabled, unemployed, and hitting 60 in a few months. Until Obama is re-elected, I’m not coming home, although I dearly miss the America I knew 15 years ago. I would love to see my family and friends more often, but I simply can’t afford to travel to a place where I couldn’t afford to be ill.

  139. 139
    JR says:

    @Baud:

    Like his white Mother who gave birth to him, and his Grandmother who raised him after his Mom died. Sure he has a deep seated hatred of white folks. Sure he does, you hateful …person.

  140. 140
    brantl says:

    @Caz: My brother lived in Canada for two decades, their health care system beats ours, hands down. You’re an idiot. There is no long waits except for non-essential services. You moron

  141. 141
    ottercliff says:

    Stopped reading when he included himself in “the virtuous ones”. Couldn’t get my chuckling under control.

  142. 142
    Jeffrey Kramer says:

    Christ was reported to rebuke one man who called him “Good Master” because “only God is good,” and to have become very sarcastic at the expense of the Pharisee who “thanked God he was not like other men, sinners.”

    I have to wonder if there is a single one of Limbaugh’s Evangelical Fundamentalist Christian listeners who will consider for one single second whether it is really appropriate for anybody calling himself a Christian to be so flagrantly disobedient of Christ’s very, very clear instruction to avoid this “We virtuous ones” bullshit.

  143. 143
    fuckwit says:

    It reminds me of that old paradox: one person has a t-shirt that says “the person next to me is lying”, and the other person has a t-shirt that says “the person next to me is telling the truth”.

    Except, both people have t-shirts that say “person next to me is lying”, but one of them is actually telling the truth.

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