Excommunication Coming

The National Catholic Reporter calls Obama the more pro-life candidate (via):

There is no doubt Obama is pro-choice. He has said so many times. There is also no doubt Romney is running on what he calls a pro-life platform. But any honest analysis of the facts shows the situation is much more complicated than that.
For example, Obama’s Affordable Care Act does not pay for abortions. In Massachusetts, Romney’s health care law does. Obama favors, and included in the Affordable Care Act, $250 million of support for vulnerable pregnant women and alternatives to abortion. This support will make abortions much less likely, since most abortions are economic. Romney, on the other hand, has endorsed Wisconsin Republican Paul Ryan’s budget, which will cut hundreds of millions of dollars out of the federal plans that support poor women. The undoubted effect: The number of abortions in the United States will increase. On these facts, Obama is much more pro-life than Romney.

That’s some good reasoning, but it’s preceded by a defense of Cardinal Dolan that includes Canon Law justification of Dolan paying pedophile priests. In a way, that makes it even more remarkable, since even someone who can defend Dolan for that kind of stuff sees through the Romney/Ryan bullshit.






46 replies
  1. 1
    amk says:

    In a way, that makes it even more remarkable, since even someone who can defend Dolan for that kind of stuff sees through the Romney/Ryan bullshit.

    Nicely spun.

  2. 2
    Peregrinus says:

    I’m not entirely surprised. While the NCR‘s known for being lefty and nonconformist on a lot of political issues, I see it quoted fairly often when it publishes defenses of actual Church policy.

    Plus I understand some of their recent hires are well to the “right and defensive” of where it used to be.

  3. 3
    Poopyman says:

    Well, it’d be great if this actual analysis gets propagated through the MSM, but I’m not holding my breath.

    BTW, both links go the same place.

  4. 4
    Poopyman says:

    @amk: Compartmentalization, I suppose.

  5. 5
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    Liberals have always been more pro-life. At best, Republicans are more pro-birth, but I won’t even give them that because their motives are entirely wrong.

  6. 6
    Emma says:

    Well, Catholic policy has always been in favor of a strong safety net for the poor, so that’s no surprise. The other one? No surprise either.

  7. 7
    peach flavored shampoo says:

    I’m going to show you a writer for one Catholic journal fired by the end of the day. Also, too, the editor and content manager and IT guy.

  8. 8
    Scott says:

    Firebagger troll brings up drones in 3-2-1…

  9. 9
    Davis X. Machina says:

    This is all very interesting, if there’s a Catholic vote.

    But there isn’t.

    Catholics are split along racial and ethnic lines like everyone else.

    Hell, even First Things columnists don’t think there’s a Catholic vote.

  10. 10
    amk says:

    Game of Thrones author rips the rethugs for their voter suppression tactics & the teabaggers their racist antics.

  11. 11
    mistermix says:

    @Poopyman: Link fixed, thanks.

    @amk: Yeah, that does sound bullshitty, but read the piece. It goes from “Canon Law demands, blah blah blah” to the stuff I quoted, so it was really in blind pig finding an ear of corn territory.

  12. 12
    NonyNony says:

    @Scott:

    Firebagger troll brings up drones in 3-2-1…

    Right. Because Romney won’t also unleash drones where the military tells him to unleash drones. Hell Romney is slightly more likely to get us into a war with Iran – which should ALSO figure into people’s “pro-life” calculations.

    Anyway – if Obama is both more pro-choice and more pro-life, then that makes Romney more anti-choice and anti-life. Which means that Romney is a disciple of this guy. Honestly? Not surprised.

  13. 13
    sherparick says:

    You forget the real point of the anti-abortion, anti-contraception project. It is, in David Brooks’ and Ross Douthat’s of the world view to give women the right “incentives” to avoid “sexy time” and punish the ones who don’t say “no.” And it is also about, at least hoping, that once married, the “fairer” sex will be barefoot and pregnant and dependent on the family “patriarch.” Misery and poverty and suffering for both the women and the children they bear, but can’t support if a single parent (or even dual parent working class), is a feature, not a bug in the Ryan, neo-Confederate, Christianist Theocrat, world-veiws.

  14. 14
    Punchy says:

    Does the Vatican’s response to this involve anything we can call a “mass shooting”? The MSM and CNN in particular want to know…

  15. 15
    jibeaux says:

    @Davis X. Machina: Hell, Catholics split roughly 50-50 with the rest of the populace on abortion. As far as I can tell, if you had to isolate a particular minority subgroup that is the most blandly representative of American views as a whole, they’d probably fit the bill better than most.

  16. 16

    @Peregrinus: Does it get subsidized from Rome? If so, that’s the reason. Just look at what Ratso is trying to do to the nuns.

  17. 17
    amk says:

    @mistermix: I know. It was a compliment. :)

  18. 18

    @jibeaux: Bingo!! And don’t forget female contaception. The church prohibits it, yet close to 98%(polls I’ve seen) of Catholic women say they’ve used it at one point or another. If that’s not the strongest rebuke of a wrong-headed Catholic Church policy, I don’t know what is. Also, too, a big honkin’ middle finger to Bobo and Chunky Bobo.

  19. 19
    Davis X. Machina says:

    @jibeaux: Politicians, and pundits, fight the last war with a vehemence that embarrasses even the generals, who are famously always fighting the last war. Academics, not so much:

    Stephen S. Schneck, director of the Institute for Policy Research and Catholic Studies at The Catholic University of America (The only Pontifical university in the U.S.)

    ….the idea of a Catholic bloc is patently ridiculous. As voters, American Catholics mirror the electorate as a whole, divided into Democrats, independents, and Republicans at about the same percentages as all Americans. And it’s hard to trace such political complexity to religious allegiance.

  20. 20
    Mark S. says:

    Wow, the article goes into Romney’s fetus disposal business and his support from El Salvadorian death squads.

  21. 21
    Zifnab says:

    While I agree with a lot of the above comments that there’s not really a Catholic vote per-say, I wouldn’t write off comments like this.

    Within the pro-life community, there are a lot of die-hard single issue voters. Articles like this effectively take abortion off the table for readers that agree. Now Obama can go before Catholics and say “Look, even the conservative Cardinal Dolan says…” And independents who were sitting on the fence over their vote and ready to pull the handle for the GOP by default will waver a bit further.

    That’s a non-trivial turn of events.

  22. 22
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    @sherparick: Actually, it’s even simpler: It’s all about political power. Go look at the number of Denominations that supported Roe v. Wade. Even the Southern Baptists supported it. It changed when a few of the leaders realized they could gain political power by opposing the decision.

  23. 23
    Brian R. says:

    The whole piece is good. It goes on to point out the Stericycle stuff and condemn Romney as “an abortion profiteer.”

    Damn.

  24. 24
    Linda Featheringill says:

    Yeah, no Catholic bloc.

    However, this is only August. If this conversation has started in the church, it will likely spread in the next couple of months.

    Really nice that Stericycle and death squads are mentioned. So these topics have now been introduced to a lot of people, or will be in the next weeks, who otherwise might not have believed them. [It does sort of sound like made-up propaganda.]

    Very nice.

  25. 25
    Elizabelle says:

    @amk:

    Great catch.

    We already knew George RR Martin could write, but just wow:

    It would really be nice if there were still some Republicans of conscience out there who would stand up and loudly denounce these efforts, a few men of honor and integrity for whom “win the election” does not “win the election at any cost.” There were once many Republicans I admired, even I disagreed with them: men like Everett Dirksen, Clifford Case, Henry Cabot Lodge, William Scranton… yes, even Barry Goldwater, conservative as he is. I do not believe for a moment that Goldwater would have approved of this, any more than Robert A. Heinlein would have. They were conservatives, but they were not bigots, nor racists, nor corrupt. The Vote Suppressors have far more in common with Lester Maddox, George Wallace, John Stennis, and their ilk than they do with their distinguished GOP forebears.
    __
    The people behind these efforts at disenfranchising large groups of voters (the young, the old, the black, the brown) are not Republicans, since clearly they have scant regard for our republic or its values. They are oligarchs and racists clad in the skins of dead elephants.
    __
    And don’t tell me they are libertarians either. No true libertarians would ever support a culture where citizens must “show their papers” to vote or travel. That’s a hallmark of a police state, not a free country.

  26. 26
    Bulworth says:

    I hope this National Catholic Reporter doesn’t have granite counter tops….

  27. 27
    Nylund says:

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent):

    Romney’s people tell me his plan will use competitive bidding, in which the value of the voucher is tied to the lowest-cost

    One is about being there to support women, the other views all women who engage in sex outside of marriage as dirty whores who deserve to be punished.

    In a sense, one side is very Old Testament, very, “I am a jealous God, I am an angry God,” that likes to go around smiting people left and right. The other is much more New Testament and about love and forgiveness.

    It’s particularly odd when you think about which of the two claims to be more “Christian.”

  28. 28
    xian says:

    @Davis X. Machina: so much for Ryan delivering the entire upper modwest via the Catholic vote.

  29. 29
    xian says:

    @Davis X. Machina: so much for Ryan delivering the entire upper modwest via the Catholic vote.

  30. 30
    TK421 says:

    What will we learn next, that Obama wants to cut Social Security and Medicare???

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08.....wanted=all

  31. 31
    RedKitten says:

    You forget the real point of the anti-abortion, anti-contraception project.

    But that’s what I often wonder…what is their endgame? Where do they see all this going?

    Let’s say they win and get EVERYTHING they want. Hormonal contraception is illegal, abortion is illegal, and there are no more social programs. They really do seem to think that people will stop having premarital sex. So let’s say that happens: everybody waits until marriage, and then promptly gets pregnant. Do they expect married couples to only have sex when they want to have a baby? Really? Or do they expect every woman to be a Duggar and pop out baby after baby after baby, rendering them completely unable to join the workforce? And what do they think will happen to poor people who are married, and who can’t afford these kids? We’ve heard all kinds of scorn from them about poor people having kids they can’t afford. And yet they’re opposed to birth control. So do they figure that poor people should just NEVER have sex, period?

    No matter how many times I circle around this, I keep coming back to the conclusion that they just want poor people to basically die out, either through starvation or through lack of reproduction. I know it sounds extreme, but what other possible explanation could there be for their positions?

  32. 32
    Kathy in St. Louis says:

    The National Catholic Reporter is the more progressive voice of the Catholic Church. In fact, it’s so progressive that many Catholic bishops (neocons) won’t even grant interviews. A lot of the most conservative members of the Catholic Church (read Bill Donohue’s dime a post types) come to the NCR website just to rag on what few liberals are left in the Church today and to wish them eternal damnation. So, if you see some conservative articles there next to this honest assessment of Paul Ryan and Mittens, remember that they have to stay in business. Lots of the American bishops would love to find a way to make this operation go away. They don’t like that it points out their more egregious actions.

  33. 33
    Liberty60 says:

    @Davis X. Machina:
    Which is good news, in that we may be seeing the first fissure of the Religious Right, peeling away the more progressive Christian votes from the GOP.

    Ryan forces the Christian base to confront an issue other than sexuality or reproduction, and on this issue, of wealth distribution, the Gospels are very friendly territory for the liberals.

  34. 34
    Kathy in St. Louis says:

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent): Well said. That’s exactly the case.

  35. 35
    Davis X. Machina says:

    @Kathy in St. Louis: Real Catholics read The Wanderer….

  36. 36
    Mnemosyne (iPhone) says:

    I wouldn’t be surprised if the “Bain financed by right-wing death squads” thing was the breaking point. There are quite a few pro-life Catholics who were involved in the Sanctuary movement of the 1980s:

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctuary_movement

  37. 37
    Catsy says:

    @Elizabelle: Except when he leaves out verbs. But forgivable; it’s fantastic, it’s a blog post and not the sort of thing spell check would catch.

    But while Martin’s never made any secret of his political leanings, I’d wager we’re going to see at least one prominent wingnut call for a boycott of Game of Thrones.

  38. 38
    Kathy in St. Louis says:

    @Davis X. Machina: I just looked it up. I had heard the name, but never read it. Now I know why. Not exactly my cup of tea.

  39. 39

    […] I ran across an instance of this scheme on Balloon Juice.  Here's the whole post: […]

  40. 40
    FormerSwingVoter says:

    @Emma:

    Well, Catholic policy has always been in favor of a strong safety net for the poor, so that’s no surprise. The other one? No surprise either.

    It’s worth pointing out that many Catholics no longer feel this way. Remember that the whole “your employer can withhold birth control” kerfuffle was coming from Catholics, not Evangelicals.

    Many who would describe themselves as a “devout Catholic” these days really mean “Christian conservative”.

  41. 41
    burnspbesq says:

    @peach flavored shampoo:

    I’m going to show you a writer for one Catholic journal fired by the end of the day. Also, too, the editor and content manager and IT guy.

    I’ve got a Benjamin that says you’re wrong. In or out?

  42. 42
    burnspbesq says:

    @Mark S.:

    Wow, the article goes into Romney’s fetus disposal business and his support from El Salvadorian death squads.

    No real surprise there. The institutional Church has a very long memory where the assassination of Cardinals while celebrating Mass is concerned. The Vatican likes Cardinal Romero the martyr a lot better than it ever liked Cardinal Romero the liberation theology guy.

  43. 43
    Spike says:

    a defense of Cardinal Dolan that includes Canon Law justification of Dolan paying pedophile priests

    That’s the last straw. I’m switching to Nikon.

  44. 44
    Peregrinus says:

    @Phil Perspective:

    Wiki calls it independent, says it’s not connected to the Church in the least. My guess is that some of the journalists interested in covering Catholic topics have shifted, like a lot of Catholics, from left to right.

    @Spike:

    That hurt, you bastard. :P

    @NonyNony:

    And you owe me a new keyboard.

  45. 45

    […] is the most pro-life presidential candidate? According to the National Catholic Reporter…Barack Obama. And their logic makes a lot of […]

  46. 46

    […] defense of some of Catholicism’s less-defensible practices—is something. As Balloon Juice points out, you know you’re pitching something foul when an institution that backs pedophile-employers […]

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  1. […] defense of some of Catholicism’s less-defensible practices—is something. As Balloon Juice points out, you know you’re pitching something foul when an institution that backs pedophile-employers […]

  2. […] is the most pro-life presidential candidate? According to the National Catholic Reporter…Barack Obama. And their logic makes a lot of […]

  3. […] I ran across an instance of this scheme on Balloon Juice.  Here's the whole post: […]

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