It’s unclear exactly what is going on, but early reports say at least 4 people are dead and up to 30 have been injured in a shooting at a Sikh Temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin just south of Milwaukee:
Pictures from Chopper 4 showed at least four people who were shot, though Oak Creek Police did not confirm those reports.
One witness told Newsradio 620 WTMJ’s Dan O’Donnell that at least one, possibly four gunmen were hiding inside the temple after they started shooting.
Oak Creek Police did not confirm that they have a shooter in custody. At least 10 to 12 ambulances were on scene.
The shootings happened at about 10:30 a.m. at the Sikh Temple, on the 7500 block of South Howell Avenue in Oak Creek.
“My friend called and said ‘I heard the shot, and two people falling down in the parking lot.’ He saw the shooter reloading the gun again,” said witness Suni Singh to O’Donnell.
Right now on Twitter, there are reports that hostages are sending text messages to people on the outside and that those who may have loved ones in the temple should not attempt to call because the hostages are hiding their cell phones from the gunmen:
RT @sikhactivist: Victims in Sikh Temple asking: Do NOT call cellphones, they are currently in hiding and ringer may give up their positions. #TempleShooting
Reports on Twitter also state that a SWAT team is about to raid the temple to rescue hostages — some of which are children – from the basement of the temple.
We couldn’t even go three weeks without a mass shooting, and the sad thing is, the Aurora shooting had faded from the national consciousness as of a week ago.
You can follow WISN’s live coverage here.
[cross-posted and updated reports at ABLC]
sb
Goddamnit.
I am sick to fucking death of mass shootings. Just sick to fucking death of it. Seems like we have one a month.
Goddamn, confound and fuck every person who even thinks of doings something like this. Just awful.
Corner Stone
I say we take what Twitter is giving us and jump to hot conclusions right now!
raven
WISN-TV reports that a cop was shot (no confirmation on that). “still people inside in a tense standoff… hostage situation inside.”
The station also spoke to Amardeep Kaleka whose father was inside during the shooting. He was told by police that 20-25 people may have been shot inside. The man also said his mother is hiding inside as she believes the gunman is still inside.
Villago Delenda Est
@Corner Stone:
My conclusion: It’s Obama’s fault.
Just getting that in, and official, before Breitbart.com, RedState, and the OvenMitt for Tsar site do.
jrg
@Corner Stone: It’s pretty damn hard not to. Fortunately most of the anonymous commentators on this blog have better sense than one Jennifer Rubin.
danah gaz (fka gaz)
Cue the “surprising” news that these guns were legally purchased by crazy people.
At what point do we declare the NRA to be a terrorist organization?
When do we finally start holding vendors responsible for aiding and abetting murderers? Or even charge them with felony murder?
sb
@Corner Stone: Or we can just check out the live feed but to each his own.
wrb
It’s about time to start a magazine devoted to mass shooting coverage.
But should it be a monthly or a weekly?
Cargo
Let’s not politicize this, now isn’t the time, mourn the victims, obammy wants gun control, false flag operation, second amendment, we didn’t do it, was a crazy guy not a conservative, he was a liberal anyways, not responsible, not responsible, not responsible.
ABL
@Corner Stone: You’re like an old man yelling at the sky.
raven
@Cargo: Guy(s), it’s a team op.
Cargo
Remember how in “Escape from New York”, they walled off the island of Manhattan and made it a maximum security prison? We’re kind of living through that but in reverse.
c u n d gulag
Here’s the solution:
NOT any form of gun or ammuntion control.
NO!
NO MORE WEARING ANY MASKS TO PLACES OF WORSHIP!
MikeJ
@Corner Stone:
@Libby Spencer:
Mnemosyne
As Villago said in the thread below, looks like we have yet another fucking idiot with a gun who thinks turban=Mooslim.
Villago Delenda Est
@danah gaz (fka gaz):
Over a decade ago there was an episode of “Law and Order” where everyone’s favorite crazy prosecutor, Jack McCoy, attempted to put a gun manufacturer on trial for murder, seeing as the manufacturer’s sales team pretty obviously were pushing modifications of the product for automatic fire, and the product was very easy (almost too easy, if you get my drift) to modify. All in an effort to boost sales.
Tokyokie
How much do you want to bet that the gunman thought he was targeting Muslims? (Beaten to the punch by Mnemosyne.)
But hey, funny-dressing and foreign-looking, so close enough for psycho moron work.
wrb
It is Obama’s fault for acting like a Sihk
raven
@Villago Delenda Est: As you know, every incident like this boosts gun sales.
c u n d gulag
@c u n d gulag:
Ooops!
Make that masks and/or turbans!
raven
@Tokyokie: I’m going to say it one more time. Every report indicates there were multiple gunmen.
SatanicPanic
@Tokyokie: Nothing. That’s almost certainly the case.
wrb
@raven:
Means nothing. Lotsa people have been driven over the edge by Obama’s Muslim ways.
quannlace
What’s so bizarre is, I’ve got the radio on and none of the news stations have mentioned this at all!
Tokyokie
@raven: In other words, several morons who think they’re targeting Muslims.
The way I feel about most firearms is the way Groucho Marx felt about social clubs. He wouldn’t want to join a club that would have somebody like himself as a member; I think handgun sales should be restricted to those who don’t want to own them.
scav
@quannlace: But I’ve been seeing short mentions elsewhere on the web well before it hit BJ. Very odd.
beltane
@quannlace But if a couple of Sikhs or Muslims shot up a megachurch the whole f*cking country would come to a standstill.
Steve Crickmore
As additional facts come forward, Obama might start actually trying to speak about violent domestic extremism rather than ducking the issue. Rage/hate pouring from small brains armed with multiple large guns are a lethal combination. Presumbably, this is one of one reasons why he was elected, as a healer of the cultural wars in 2008, and why he wants to be re-elected.
gogol's wife
@Steve Crickmore:
Yes, it’s all Obama’s fault.
My husband is out there right now, staying at a hotel down the street from this. I can’t reach him, he’s in a museum or something.
Martin
@quannlace:
They’ll start talking about it now – a white person has been shot.
gene108
@c u n d gulag:
???????????
Sikh’s don’t wear masks.
Alex S.
Beaten by Mnemosyne with the turban=muslim-connection.
4tehlulz
inb4 bachmann
Woodrowfan
my first thought was teaparty-Faux viewer, but let’s wait and see….
jwb
@quannlace: It’s on most of the news websites. The reports, however, are very sketchy.
mapaghimagsik
Wisconsin?
Why u so crazy?
mapaghimagsik
Wisconsin?
Why u so crazy?
wrb
@gene108:
Right-wing Sikhs do
Corner Stone
@Woodrowfan:
Aw, hell no!
quannlace
Still nothing. Just traffic, weather and stories of how this is the 5oth anniversary of Marilyn Monroe.
Do they just run taped -news in a loop now?
gene108
@wrb:
Maybe this is part of Obama’s secret Muslim plan to exact revenge for the Mughal-Sikh warfare of the 17th and 18th centuries? (/sad, sad, sad snark)
Steve Crickmore
Obama is not to blamed, but has been very cautious in the bully pulpit. He says he wants a debate on gun violence, but for political reasons, he doesn’t want to be part of it.
raven
@quannlace: CNN is all over it.
GregB
The only solution to such mass killings is more tax cuts.
Lahru
I’m thinking teh gay lifestyle and teh cloud guy are involved in this.
gene108
@wrb:
On Sikh at a protest in England doesn’t equal a common practice.
me
The cops say it’s not an insider so that makes a feud, which apparently happens among Sikhs, unlikely. They also say it was well planned which doesn’t quite mesh with them being some morons who confuse Sikhs with Muslims.
gene108
Maybe these guys had a local old fashioned barbershop that catered to neighborhood men, but the neighborhood got taken over by relatively traditional Sikhs and they were going out of business?
This is just sad, sad, sad…
raven
Police Chief on CNN, one shooter, dead. 4 dead inside, 3 dead outside including the shooter. Looks like just one.
JGabriel
__
__
Thirding or fourthing Mnemosyne’s, & Tokyokie’s speculation that the shooters thought they were targeting Muslims.
Only question in my mind is whether these guys are gonna self-identify as white supremacists, militia, or Tea Partiers.
.
me
On the other hand, “Greenfield Police are also now guarding a mosque in their area.”.
Comrade Carter
I’m sorry.
As a resident of the Milwaukee area (Wauwatosa), and an atheist, I am totally sorry and I can’t begin to express my thoughts.
jwb
@quannlace: This might explain some of the silence: “Police are currently engaged in a tactical sweep to assess whether additional shooters remain inside the temple, and have asked the media to refrain from reporting on or transmitting images of police operations in the area.”
raven
@Comrade Carter: This problem is way bigger than Wauwatosa. (Where my dad was the basketball coach in 1954)
wrb
@gene108:
So you are saying that this was done by Obama’s agents, rather than by someone driven to it by Obama’s ways?
I guess that is the other possibility.
Professor
@Steve Crickmore: Why don’t you talk to your congressman/woman and senator about GUN control? That would be more appropriate!
Ash Can
@Steve Crickmore: What’s he supposed to do? He made a speech right after the Colorado shootings and said that assault weapons belong in the hands of soldiers and not civilians. He can’t pass an assault weapons ban — or any other kind of gun legislation — by himself. And yes, there are political reasons for him not to push hard. Do you think the NRA isn’t praying for an opportunity to go (even more) medieval on Obama’s ass now, during the election campaign?
I would love the sweet living hell out of it if Obama could cure America’s gun sickness himself. But I don’t see any way that would be possible. And if Obama can’t unify our society, as you referred to, it has nothing to do with his appeals to the decency of Americans and everything to do with the fact that a bunch of white-privilege bigots flipped their shit when he was elected.
JGabriel
@me:
Just because someone knows how to buy weapons in America (because that’s so hard) and plan an armed attack on unsuspecting church-goers, doesn’t mean they ain’t morons. It just means they’re violent, sneaky, morons.
.
Mnemosyne
@quannlace:
For the most part — yes. That’s one of the biggest complaints people have about megacorporations like Clear Channel taking over local radio channels. Because everything is piped in from a central location, it’s almost impossible for the station to respond to breaking news.
@me:
Not necessarily. There are a whole lot of conservative Christians out there who divide the world into “real religions” and “false religions.” The differences between Islam and Sikhism wouldn’t make any difference because they’re all false religions that set themselves against Christianity.
I would not be at all surprised to find out that the shooter thought Sikhs were just a different kind of Muslim, like Shiites or Sunnis.
Ben Franklin
Freepers speculate it is Black Ops Dem or MOOslims because Sikhs are war-like right-wing opponents to Obama.
h/t nomoremisterniceblog
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2914900/posts
Frankensteinbeck
@JGabriel:
Let’s wait. Yes, it’s a serious possibility. If it turns out it’s anti-Muslim violence, we’ll know soon enough. If that was the motivation, I doubt it will take long for that to come out. Murderously hate-filled goons tend to be proud of their hate.
Anya
This is horrible beyond description. When will our society take the gun issue seriously? My thoughts are with the victims and their loved ones!
wrb
@Steve Crickmore:
He’d just be wasting his breath helping Romney get the presidency, so I’d be disappointed if he came out hard for gun control.
Gun control efforts have mainly succeeded in getting right-wingers elected.
We aren’t close to being able able to enact national gun control legislation.
Hell, shooting Reagan didn’t even work.
AHH onna Droid
@gene108: oww, that was bad and too soon, but let me join you in that handbasket ( I contradict myself; I contain multitudes): you might as well speculate it was the local gun shop owner going postal because Sikhs carry daggers!
Amir Khalid
@me:
Maybe the thinking was, “Not Christian? Close enough!” In any case, not clear on the difference between Sikh and Muslim doesn’t necessarily mean not smart enough to plan an armed assault on a temple in the middle of services.
I do hope that the cops catch at least one of these fuckers alive, so that we’ll eventually have something more than wild speculation about who they are and why they did this.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
Check out Fox’s front page. This story ranks below the main story about Axelrod defending the Ohio voting lawsuit, and after a story about a man being arrested for violating probation by holding services in his home. Sikhs << white people for sure.
AHH onna Droid
I hope they shoot the gunmen in the head. I feel a little insane right now. Technically it wouldbe better for them to be caught and tried.
When is Pammycakes going to prison?
scav
@Belafon (formerly anonevent): Well, gun violence of this type shouldn’t be “politicized” that is say “reported too loudly” in any case.
rikyrah
prayers for the victims.
may the killer burn in hell
jon
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/17/us/sikh-owner-of-gas-station-is-fatally-shot-in-rampage.html I had the distinct displeasure of meeting Frank Roque as part of my work. The piece of shit still believes he did the world a favor.
Joseph Nobles
One gunman, who is already dead.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_SIKH_TEMPLE_SHOOTING?SITE=TXDAM&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
He fired on the first officer to arrive on the scene, who shot back and killed him, according to the AP citing the police chief. Seven people including the gunman are dead. No second shooter.
operation_debunk
Let’s not jump to conclusions people. I am from the Oak Creek area. I went to high school there. Let the authorites gather up info and give their official report before putting out conspiracy theories. C’mon….
El Cid
So will there be a big call by conservatives to make sure that more of our Sikh community is armed & carrying?
Kane
What the world must think of us.
Steve Crickmore
@wrb: It is pretty clear you are right. Obama feels safer with the ratcheting up of drone attacks. American politicians are often uncomfortable talking about non-violence. Even Hillary is not immune. Clinton at a Missourri fundraiser in 2008, introduced a quote from Gandhi by saying, “He ran a gas station down in St. Louis.”
eemom
Fuck this.
I fucking hate this fucked up country with its fucked up gun-love. That’s all I need to know.
PurpleGirl
@Kane: Via The Sideshow (Avedon Carol):
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/08/how-first-time-visitors-see-america/260541/
It isn’t specifically about the American love affair with guns and violence, but there are many things about us that most other people do not understand. Guns are briefly mentioned in one paragraph.
gogol's wife
@Joseph Nobles:
Thanks for that.
gogol's wife
@eemom:
Amen.
MoeLarryAndJesus
This shooting will disappear from the news in a day or two.
It’s not like this happened at Joel Osteen’s megachurch.
gogol's wife
@Steve Crickmore:
Please go away.
Chris T.
@Kane: Syrians offered a chance to obtain asylum in the US think: “no thanks, it’s too dangerous there.”
[Edit: I was being sarcastic, but apparently maybe not quite enough…]
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
I didn’t believe it, but….
Fox station in Milwaukee is saying that the Sikh religion is based in northern Italy.
Think they’ll blame it on autocorrect?
Tokyokie
@JGabriel: Not that any of those are mutually exclusive.
YellowJournalism
My children are in the States right now, and it scares the living hell out of me that this is happening again within weeks of the other shooting. That the targets are Sikh, which is my family’s religion, makes it worse. I do not think my children are in immediate danger and trust their safety to family, but it’s still quite freaky.
cjdavis
Live coverage – http://livewire.wisn.com/Event/Oak_Creek_Temple_Shooting
They just had a man on who spoke to witnesses, he claims two shooters, both now dead, who were dropped off by a 3rd person who then drove away. Five victims dead.
Mr Stagger Lee
Reading another thread at Kos, and the RKBA masturbators are out there in force, hey guys just because gun laws are not 100% effective does not mean there should be no attempts to control them. I mean is there any part of regulating guns, magazines, or bullets are you are willing to entertain?
the Conster
@Steve Crickmore:
Obama got elected, never having pushed for nor having passed nor promising to pass any gun control legislation, and within 6 mos. of his election gun sales had tripled and a lot of stores were back ordered on ammo because his silence on the issue to gun nuts obviously means that he’s plotting to take everyone’s guns away. So, yes, gun violence is all Obama’s fault, as is every other problem not yet solved by Barack “the Rock” Obama because of his failure to use the bully pulpit like the Green Lantern would. Really, grow the fuck up.
Yutsano
@YellowJournalism: This is happening well far away from where they are. And Washington, for all its faults, does not have a history of religious violence. One of the oldest synagogues on the west coast is in Seattle. Plus we’ve had Buddhist temples and Shinto shrines for almost a century.
lol chikinburd
Am I crazy for believing the earlier eyewitness reports of multiple shooters to be more credible than the current police report of a single shooter thankfully already disposed of? I mean, deference to the judgment of trained professional authorities is all well and good when everyone involved in an incident is white and mainstream, but when a whole group of witnesses are cultural outsiders, I can see how their accounts might be blown off in the official narrative.
lamh35
@cjdavis: is there any other live coverage? Because I listening to this one and the female newscaster is rubbing the wrong way for some reason.
I’m at work, so I have to use online video for live coverage and CNN is just showing replay video online
YellowJournalism
@Yutsano: Yeah I know. Just worried mom who is also sad to hear this about her home country. And going through kid withdrawals.
Mnemosyne
@lol chikinburd:
IF the eyewitness reports are accurate, I can think of a couple of reasons why the cops would keep it quiet until they finish investigating, like it might be easier to catch the getaway driver if he thinks no one is looking for him.
The reports I’ve seen say that they’ve stationed police at the local mosque, so clearly they’re taking potential threats to others in the community quite seriously.
Amir Khalid
@lol chikinburd:
I think it’s likely any shooters would have been conspicuous in the temple, by virtue of being the only people there who were visibly not of Punjabi Indian ancestry. Also being the only men there not wearing beards, turbans or steel bangles.
AxelFoley
@Steve Crickmore:
Fuck you, your mom and dad for bringing you into this world, and your dog, too.
cjdavis
@lamh35:
https://twitter.com/sikhactivist is updating rapidly, and has links to live coverage.
AxelFoley
@Steve Crickmore:
Got any siblings? Fuck them, too.
Mnemosyne
@Amir Khalid:
This is America, so there could potentially be some converts of European ancestry. They probably would be well-known to the rest of the membership, though, just by virtue of being unusual.
ETA: Also, from the story, the police are not discounting the possibility of additional shooters and are still searching the building:
The one identified shooter is the guy who was shot by police outside the building, but they’re still taking stock inside the building.
trollhattan
F*#king content-driven ads, “Tell Congress: Support the 2nd Amendment” showed up in the left-hand column of the Hindustan Times. They must really think we’re insane, and they be right.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/chandigarh/Four-killed-at-Sikh-temple-shooting-in-US-reports/Article1-908803.aspx
AxelFoley
@Ash Can:
Thank you. As you can see, I don’t have to patience to deal with likes of Steve’s bullshit anymore. You said what should be said.
Oh, and Steve? Still fuck you.
lamh35
This thing makes me think of my trip to India over 2 years ago where the people we met were so nice…Muslim, Christian, Hindu & Sikh and it makes me sad!
http://www.thedailybeast.com/videos/2012/08/05/i-can-t-even-talk.html
Anyone knows how this is being reported in India???
W. Kiernan
@wrb: Let’s start an organization, the National Victim Association, and publish a magazine titled “The American Rifle Target.” Just like the gun nuts, I have a dumb, kiddy hobby too – I like my sports car – but I don’t want to be represented by a lobby which work to remove driver’s license and speed limit laws, and which immediately launches media counter-offensives whenever some boozed-up jackass going to burn rubber gets sideways and flattens a bunch of kids waiting for the school bus.
lamh35
Indian Embassy issues press release on Wiscons Sikh Temple Shooting.
http://www.indianembassy.org/prdetail2006/press-release
Todd
Guns don’t kill people. Mental defectives with psychotic grudges and easy access to guns with high capacity magazines kill people.
danah gaz (fka gaz)
@Villago Delenda Est: This occurred on the show “The Practice” as well, IIRC.
Keep in mind that I’m not necessarily advocating that every gun vendor be criminally liable for murder. I maybe should have clarified: If it can be demonstrated that you were negligent, or even pushing the sale of weapons on to people who shouldn’t have them, not taking any steps to restrict who you are selling them to, or even selling them to people you have reason to believe shouldn’t have them, you should quite likely be criminally liable. In traditional crimes, there’s arguably precedent for this. In the case of selling guns, I suspect that the reason it’s not has a lot more to do with the gun lobby than any kind of justice.
In a just world, every single vendor at a gun show should be worried about being charged criminally for selling their guns to random people off of the street.
xian
@trollhattan: click it to make them pay for the click and to fuck up their stats
wrb
@W. Kiernan:
Love the name.
I think the format should borrow from hunting mags, aided by photoshop- proud hunter with his kill, heads mounted on plaques, discussion of the cool features of the mighty, mighty weapon that did the deed.
Amir Khalid
@Mnemosyne:
Punjabi or not, you can very easily tell a Sikh man from a non-Sikh on sight. They have a religious duty to wear turbans and beards. (Steel bangles, also too.) So a shooter would find it hard to hide among the congregation anyway.
You could be right about the police not wanting to compromise the search for the shooter’s or shooters’ accomplices. There was indeed a report that someone dropped him/them off at the temple. But reports this early, often from distressed and confused eyewitnesses, are usually uncertain as to details. We’ll see what the updates tell us about that.
geg6
Fucking mother fucking guns. And mother fucking bigots. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck.
I hate them. Just fucking hate them.
As soon as I calm down, I start sending positive thoughts to the victims and their families and friends. But I’m too pissed to think positively right this minute.
Amir Khalid
@Mnemosyne:
Punjabi or not, you can very easily tell a Sikh man from a non-Sikh on sight. They have a religious duty to wear turbans and beards. (Steel bangles, also too.) So a shooter would find it hard to hide among the congregation anyway.
You could be right about the police not wanting to compromise the search for the shooter’s or shooters’ accomplices. There was indeed a report that someone dropped him/them off at the temple. But reports this early, often from distressed and confused eyewitnesses, are usually uncertain as to details. We’ll see what the updates tell us about that.
Schlemizel
@Villago Delenda Est: NO! Obama agents did this so he can use it as an excuse to take away all my guns!!!
Please get your meme’s straight. Sigh, I wish I was kidding.
gogol's wife
@W. Kiernan:
Sign me up.
pat
My husband claims he saw a report somewhere that the NRA has already sent out a fund-raising letter based on this shooting. He’s pretty deeply involved in the Olympics right now, so it may or may not be accurate, but it sure wouldn’t surprise me.
trollhattan
We have an open case of the murder of two Sikh gentlemen killed committing the egregious act of going for a walk. Police still looking for a teetering full-size pickup possibly related to the murder. It would be wrong of me to draw any conclusions on what cohort typically drives teetering full-size pickups.
http://blogs.sacbee.com/crime/archives/2012/02/elk-grove-police-update-case-of-homicide-of-2-sikh-men.html#storylink=misearch
trollhattan
@pat:
“If only those Sikhs had been armed…stop Obama’s evil scheme, today!”
Ben Franklin
@trollhattan:
That’s a little narrow. I drive a long-bed. But I don’t need a ladder to board. :)
raven
@trollhattan: Sikhs are fearsome fighters.
trollhattan
@raven:
Aren’t the Ghurkas Sikh, or am I confoozed (as is typical)?
raven
@trollhattan: They are from Nepal.
“Former Chief of staff of the Indian Army, Field Marshal Sam Manekshaw, once famously said[2] about Gurkhas: “If a man says he is not afraid of dying, he is either lying or is a Gurkha.”
trollhattan
@Ben Franklin:
I have a simple test: so long as I can’t see six shock absorbers and various suspension bits in my rear-view while being tailgated by a truck, it’s likely being piloted by a normal person. But when I can… =:-O
MikeBoyScout
Yes, ‘n’ how many times must the cannon balls fly
Before they’re forever banned?
The answer, my friend, is blowin’ in the wind,
The answer is blowin’ in the wind.
gorram
@Amir Khalid: Most sikh gurdwaras famously try to be open 24/7 to any one interested for any reason (many offer food to the poor, for instance). It’s not inconceivable that they were welcomed as guests.
wrb
@trollhattan: Ghurkas are Nepalese, mostly Hindu
David Koch
this is what happens when you eliminate prayer in school
Omnes Omnibus
@raven: Possibly apocryphal story about Gurkhas: During training a group of recruits were informed that the next stage was going to be learning to jump out of airplanes at 800′. When the drill sergeant asked if their were any questions, a recruit raised his hand and asked if it would be possible to try it from 400′ just to get the hang of it. The drill sergeant said that at 400′ the parachute would not have time to open. The Gurkha recruit responded, “Oh, we’ll have parachutes? Never mind then.”
gorram
@Amir Khalid: They have a religious duty to wear turbans and beards.
Only if they’re male (obviously) and are “baptized” which isn’t obligatory, although it’s common.
raven
@Omnes Omnibus: Currahee!
raven
I want to smack this fucking asshole on CNN.
gene108
There are some very light skinned Punjabis, who are as white as any Greek or Italian. It might not be obvious a white guy is non-Punjabi at first glance.
lamh35
Interesting. Did they say whether the gunmen was another Sikh or a white male?
raven
@lamh35: They didn’t but he did say they were treating it as an “act of domestic terrorism”.
Mike in NC
@raven:
Interestingly, I read an article last year about several Sikhs currently serving in the US Army because of special skills. They’ve been exempted from regulations to permit them to wear beards and turbans.
Cain
@YellowJournalism:
There is a lot of indians who as they get richer vote republican. I hope they understand that all this muslim hate also affects the Indian community.
I consider this a hate crime, this is some right wing christian guy out to get us. Indian sikhs are bad ass, if it comes down to wearing guns, they’ll do it. Sikhs in the old days used to be armed with swords. They can pack heat as well as the others. That should scare the shit out of some people.
Amir Khalid
@gorram:
True story:
Back in the 1970s when Malaysia introduced the mandatory helmet law for motorcyclists and their passengers, there was this Sikh lady who tried to take advantage of the religious exemption for Sikh men. She wore a man’s turban to traffic court, and presumably she had one on when she was ticketed too. The magistrate didn’t go for it, though. She had to pay the fine.
Steve Crickmore
Some of you were beating me up, because I was trying to exhort Obama to do more with regards to guns and multiculturalism. I know it is because the wingnuts will go crazy but there it is. He is not going to make any pronouncements on gun control, other than call for more background checks, any more than vist inner city ghettos, or land in Kenya ever or, (he sent Hillary this week) or for that matter personally visit the Golden Temple in Amritsar, India when he had the chance, Question of Appearances: Obama Will Bypass Sikh Temple on Visit to India ) unlike conservative PM Harper of Canada, because of the wingnuts.
I remember it was Pat Moynihan who said a conservative president could take more liberal steps, than a liberal, and sadly, Obama doesn’t seem to disagree.
PurpleGirl
I’ve had one or two Sikh taxi drivers who did not wear turbans or beards, but they did wear a steel bangle on their right wrist.
KXB
@trollhattan:
Gurkhas are Hindus from mountainous regions of northern India and Nepal. Sikhs are a separate religion. Both groups have a reputation of producing tough as nails soldiers, which is why the Brits recruited them during the colonial era, and they still recruit Gurkhas today.
So far, it seems that the media is covering this without showing pictures of ongoing police operations, pictures of sirens, etc. Anything that might incline an unstable man from copying this is being hidden from view. It also has the benefit of shielding the victims from intrusive cameras. The policeman who shot and killed the gunman is expected to survive his wounds.
Cain
@KXB:
We could make a great remake of Rambo but with a gurkha guy instead. That would rock.
IowaOldLady
Interesting that this has been designated domestic terrorism so the FBI is in charge. I don’t think that happened in Aurora, did it?
Amir Khalid
@Steve Crickmore:
The Vulcans do have that saying: “Only Nixon could go to China.” But I’m not seeing how Obama could have helped avert this tragedy in Wisconsin with a visit to the Golden Temple in Amritsar.
LanceThruster
@wrb:
Only if they provided a public service mass shooting terror alert color coded predictions like a national weather map.
They could pick any number of parameters (joblessness, racial/religious/factional tensions, media demagogery penetration, etc.) and when something “unexpected” pops up, treat it like a microburst (touched down without warning).
That way, they’d be as useful as DHS declaring an orange alert.
Peter
P@Steve Crickmore: we were ‘beating you up’ because you’re an asshole. That simple enough for you?
lamh35
@Amir Khalid: Lord I sure wish I had the pie filter for that idiot…WTF does Obama’s trip to India even matter to this.
So some domestic terrorist decided “hey Obama didn’t visit that place in India…so I’ma shoot up a temple”…seriously WFT does Obama trip have to do 2ith anyhing.
(btw, I’m not gonna respond to that douche cause he’s obviously just on some kinda Obama Derangement Syndrome kick and is trying to be an idjit.)
Steve Crickmore
@Amir Khalid:
Apparently the reason was Obama didn’t want to be seen with a covering over his head, on entering the Temple; the wingnuts would get the vapors. But understandbly the Sikhs felt let down.
S. Phoolka, a prominent Sikh lawyer in New Delhi said he was disappointed that Mr. Obama would not visit the temple.
“We have worked so hard to establish in America that Sikhs have a very different identity than Muslims,” Mr. Phoolka said. “It is very unfortunate that even the White House is conveying the message that there is no difference between Muslims and Sikhs.”
gene108
@KXB:
The first CNN footage I saw about this stated they didn’t want to tip off the gunmen as to what police were doing, as they search(ed) the temple compound and conducted the investigation.
KXB
BTW, the gunman who got killed got off lucky. The last 2 people who oversaw the mass killings of Sikhs and violations of their religious grounds, Indira Gandhi and Michael O’Dwyer, were killed by Sikhs seeking vengeance.
Double Nickel
@LanceThruster: Anything south of Mason-Dixon would be bright red, no?
geg6
@Steve Crickmore:
First, you’re blaming the wrong person and wrong branch of government. Obama has spoken out about controlling assault weapons but no president can do much about any kind of gun control since it’s up to Congress to pass a law that I’m sure he’d sign.
Second, the mere fact of a guy like Obama being president speaks to his suppot for diversity, not to mention that of a majority of American voters. Obama and every person in the US who voted for him could scream about diversity 24/7 and the bigots would still be bigots.
You don’t seem to understand our political system or our society. I was always told that if I didn’t know much about something that I should be quiet and listen and learn.
Ash Can
@Steve Crickmore: You’ll notice that the article you linked to is dated October 19, 2010 — just a couple of weeks before the midterm elections that the Dems were having so much trouble with. Obama doing what Stephen Harper did may have cost the Dems the Senate too.
You’re finding fault with politicians for making strategic political decisions. It’s what they do, and to expect any of them, including Obama, to do otherwise is absurd and unrealistic. And to expect a moderate Dem president who also happens to be the first black president to suddenly turn into a raging lefty as soon as he’s elected is likewise absurd and unrealistic.
Amir Khalid
@Steve Crickmore:
Did someone from the White House actually state that as the reason, or is it just speculation from some disappointed people? In any case, the Wisconsin shooter, whoever he was, had no great love for Sikhs. I rather doubt that any overtures Obama made toward Sikhs in India would have dissuaded him today.
Steve Crickmore
@geg6:
Steve Crickmore
@Amir Khalid: “Temple officials said that American advance teams had gone to Amritsar, the holy city that is the site of the temple, to discuss a possible visit. But the plan appears to have foundered on the thorny question of how Mr. Obama would cover his head, as Sikh tradition requires, while visiting the temple.” So the most powerful person in the world feels he must placate right wing bullies in his homeland. Maybe Obama could have worn a football helmet, then they might have been happy.
Apparently Sikh abuse has been a huge problem for Sikhs in the US, because so many nutbars associate them with being muslim terrorists! Many have cut off their hair for that reason.
Yutsano
@Amir Khalid: OT: just because I’m an eternal optimist, Viet Nam had its first gay pride parade. The arc of justice is long indeed. Things do be a changing on your part of the planet!
Tokyokie
@KXB: The Brits (or more specifically, the East India Co.) used Sikh troops to quash the Sepoy Rebellion back in 1857. Not only did the Sikhs tend to be larger than other native soldiers in colonial India, the Brits found them far more dependable. One of the issues that touched off the Sepoy Rebellion were reports that the paper cartridges, which soldiers had to tear with their teeth, for Pattern 1853 Enfields had been greased with pork fat, infuriating Hindu and Muslim troops alike. The Sikhs, on the other hand, had no qualms about using the equipment.
LanceThruster
@Double Nickel:
True. They seem to be the climate change model of more severe and unpredictable short term instability, but with the long term prognosis of becoming more so.
And much like with detailed demographic maps by community and region, the pockets of sanity in some parts would barely register on the topographic model.
Amir Khalid
@Yutsano:
Ooh, I’d love to see a LGBT pride parade here in KL. It would be guaranteed to piss off all the right people. In fact, watching them get pissed off would be like 75% of the entertainment.
Origuy
@Cain:
Origuy
FYWP
Yutsano
@Amir Khalid: Oddly enough I could see them having more of a cow about the lesbian contingent. Good little Malay girls are supposed to get married and have lots of babies after all.
Cain
@Origuy:
You need to watch “Sholay” :-)
David Koch
This is all Obama’s fault for not using the Bully Pulpit and Drooooooooooones.
Also too, Bobby Valentine’s fault. He’s driving fans insane.
Ben Franklin
INSTAPUTZ
1. Over the next 72 hours, we shouldn’t “politicize” the event.
2. “Politicize” means “discuss legislative polices (gun control measures) that could have prevented the act.”
3. The shooter was obviously crazy and would’ve found some other way to kill the victims.
4. If the victims had been armed, fewer would’ve died.
5. If the shooter was motivated by animus towards Muslims, it’s because of Obama’s feckless foreign policy.*
*(And yes, Glenn Reynolds actually made that point about Mosque bombing.)
Cassidy
The US hired Ghurka mercenaries to guard certain areas inside the Green Zone. I was always impressed with their professionalism.
vestigial
@raven: From the CNN article:
.
zombie rotten mcdonald
I thought the Concealed Carry Law in Wisconsin was supposed to prevent this sort of thing?
Do not tell me that Scott Walker LIED to us!
raven
@Tokyokie: That is in “King of the Khyber Rifles (1954)
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
Back on the subject of the shooting, WISN is reporting that a neighborhood in Cudahy has been evacuated. FBI, ATF, and a canine unit are there.
ETA: And now an armored tactical vehicle.
Jay C
@Ben Franklin:
SRSLY? Even for the Instaschmuck, this is lame beyond belief — Did Prof. Reynolds elaborate on just what exact form less “feckless” policies from the Obama Administration might take? And how they might possibly ameliorate anti-Muslim animus? Anywhere?
zombie rotten mcdonald
@Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism:
Hold up just a second.
For a city with a kind of spotty record on assaulting union members and other citizens, WE HAVE A TACTICAL ASSAULT VEHICLE??!?!?
Jeebus, don’t try to steal our bratwursts, flatlanders!
Steve Crickmore
@geg6: After the Aurora tragedy he took the American president six days beore he uttered the gword..guns. Yes, I do know, he is in quite an impotent position, and this is a House issue, and it is easier for an acting President to talk about Mexican gun violence, than American gun violence, because of the NRA.
Patricia Kayden
@Steve Crickmore: I’ll concede that President Obama should have visited that Sikh temple. Not sure how that issue relates to the issue in teh post. Could you please explain? Are you really trying to say that had Obama visited the Sikh temple, the madman wouldn’t have killed 7 people in Wisconson?
Really?
General Stuck
Mr Crickmore is a republican ratfucking troll. I just been reading some of his comments on right wing blogs. Just soes you know.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@zombie rotten mcdonald: Eh, it doesn’t look like it has weapons. I’m not sure whose it is; my first thought was “bomb squad”.
Mnemosyne
@Amir Khalid:
It was pure speculation. But haters gotta hate.
@Origuy:
Which would, of course, only increase the awesomeness by a factor of 200.
Huego
I eagerly await Michele Bachmann telling us the Sikh temple shooting is a false-flag operation motivated by the Kenyan-Muslim-Usurpers anger over the Battle of Chamkaur. It might barely crack the list of Top 5 craziest things she has said.
Huego
Remember: Guns don’t kill people, people who listen to people who say “guns don’t kill people, people kill people” kill people … with guns.
dance around in your bones
I have a (grown-up) kid who just doesn’t want to hear about these things (shootings).
I guess that’s an ethos.
Fuck the easy access to guns. A rifle, a single handgun, I can see – but these multiple AK type guns…..fuck them.
Of course, I have no idea what type of gun was used so I guess I am just talking out my ass. I will await further info until I talk out my ass some more.
karen marie
@Mr Stagger Lee: By that idiotic reasoning, we shouldn’t have laws against bank robbery or drunk driving, and most def we shouldn’t have laws against smoking dope.
The story I just read about the shooting had a video of the police chief who said this is being treated as domestic terrorism and the FBI will do the investigation because of the size and scope. A neighborhood six miles from the temple was evacuated.
Hypatia's Momma
@Origuy:
I would watch this movie.
zombie rotten mcdonald
@dance around in your bones:
Yeah, they haven’t said. I would surmise that since the casualty count is relatively low (what a sad thing to say) he had typical hunting type equipment. Wisconsin is a big hunting state, and most guns are legal here.
The reports locally are that they are searching the gunman’s apartment in Cudahy. The town was evacuated in case of a booby trapped apartment like the guy in CO.
The continued news references to the police dog are kind of mordantly funny and make me think of an old Doonesbury cartoon, where somebody is visiting Duke:
“What’s with the land mines on the couches?”
“Training the dogs to stay off the couch.”
“What dogs?”
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@dance around in your bones: There were witness reports of two handguns. Take that with the usual grain of salt for eyewitness testimony, of course.
Evolving Deep Southerner
What does Nikki Haley think about all this?
LanceThruster
It’s rather sad that the gist of the CNN interview with a Sikh national leaser was not to confuse them with Muslims as much as that doing this is vile, period.
Steve Crickmore
@Patricia Kayden: @Patricia Kayden:
No of course not! And as we don’t know whether this was some soldier suffering post-traumatic stress disorder from years of war in Afghanistan who thought the neigborhood Sikhs were the closest thing to Afghans. All I’m saying, is that Obama if he continues ducking the more emotive issues in this complex world, global warming is another, or his penchant for secrecy that nothing that be perceived to be embarrassing, for fear of alienating the rubes in the USA, he is not going to part of the solution.
raven
@Steve Crickmore: You are a fucking jackass. Beat it.
zombie rotten mcdonald
@Evolving Deep Southerner:
What does Nikki Haley think about all this?
Tax Cuts!
SectarianSofa
@Steve Crickmore:
That makes about as much sense as forced platypus conversions.
zombie rotten mcdonald
@Steve Crickmore:
You’re a fucking ghoul, trying to score cheap political points on the corpses of innocent people.
And I say that as a zombie; I know from ghouls.
Steve Crickmore
@General Stuck:
I’ll make it easier for you. Here by way of allibi, are all my posts are on wizbangblue just google, some maybe with the tag, Obama as well.
General Stuck
@Steve Crickmore:
Now why would I waste my time doing that. One comment read was all it took to get your drift.
Another Halocene Human
@YellowJournalism: I would be scared. This incident reminds me of that angry old white man who intended to charge the National Holocaust Museum and spray everyone with bullets but got stopped by security. Wingnut heads are exploding and it frightens me.
General Stuck
@Steve Crickmore:
And even if you aren’t really a republican, then you’re just an Obama bashing concern troll. Six half dozen…….
But that is allowed here, so carry on.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
From the Guardian:
dance around in your bones
Thanks for all the info (or not info, as the case may be)…..
I just fucking hate that these mass shootings are so frequent, regardless of “the cause”…domestic, terrorist, or just plain nutball.
trex
@Huego:
I eagerly await Michelle Bachmann telling is this is a false flag operation….
Clearly neither she nor her vacant-eyed peers are going to know much if anything about Sikhs and their history, but I chose to get out of the boat early on this one at a number of winger sites and rest assured: the false flag meme is already covering the spread, tied in neatly with gun walking conspiracies and Obama using martial law to cancel the election.
Steve Crickmore
@General Stuck: I will consider it. I grant you I picked a day when there is not much anyone can say or maybe should say. I’m not an Obamabasher. I know he just wants to get reelected and create as little animosity between himself and the swing voters, so this is his modus operandi. He is not going to swing for the fences.
Wazmo
@trex: Well, that didn’t take long.
Another Halocene Human
I will not respond to the vile troll, but implying that our troops can’t tell the difference between Taliban fighters and fucking Sikhs is vile, slanderous, and utterly, utterly misinformed.
SiubhanDuinne
@Mike in NC:
About 20 years ago the RCMP made the decision (under great pressure, it must be admitted — there may have been a lawsuit, or the threat of one, don’t remember details) to allow Sikh Mounties to wear turbans with their red serge uniforms instead of the traditional Stetsons.
Another Halocene Human
@General Stuck: lol @ the ratfucker who thinks that taking on Wall Street, Mitt Romney’s secrets, and same sex marriage (as well as campaigning heavily in states considered “lean red”) is not swinging for fences.
Pretend emoprog fail.
TS
@Steve Crickmore:
So who are all the conservative Presidents (or candidates) that would do such a thing? Go preach your crap some place else – Mitt Romney just had a fundraiser with the NRA
zombie rotten mcdonald
@TS:
So who are all the conservative Presidents (or candidates) that would do such a thing?
I am sure it is the Nixon going to China crap, and teh Nixon started teh EPA crap.
Other than that, I suppose it is limited to GWB not nuking all of the Middle East or something.
zombie rotten mcdonald
@Wazmo:
It took four trained men to kill 6 people? I do not think that word ‘trained’ means what Alex Jones thinks it means.
Wazmo
@zombie rotten mcdonald: C’mon, we’re talking Alex Jones here-he makes Jesse Ventura look sane. Plus, he has to fill 3 hours of his show with 2/3rds of it filled with commercials.
The prophet Nostradumbass
From ABC News: Officials believe ‘White Supermacist’ behind ‘domestic terrorism’.
zombie rotten mcdonald
@The prophet Nostradumbass:
I AM SHOCKED. SHOCKED, I TELL YOU.
LanceThruster
Sadly, in parsing what’s true and what isn’t like serious people, I just watched tonight’s episode of Newsroom and I feel it didn’t take long for them to stop broadcasting the ‘truth.’ I agree with those sources that said Bin Laden was dead long before.
Carry on stating what can and can’t be true here in the looking glass.
zombie rotten mcdonald
@Wazmo:
I am still searching for the universal ‘sarcasm’ emoticon.