Harry Reid said that he knew a guy who knew that Mitt Romney did not pay any Federal Income Taxes for ten years. He mentioned it last Tuesday and it was clear that Harry was talking about Federal Income Taxes. This has sent many to the fainting couch. Conservatives howled and so did the worshipers of false media balance. Also queasy were pundits, progressives and Democrats who are uncomfortable when anybody on their side is at ease throwing a sharp elbow or landing a solid hit to the gut. And Harry Reid’s second hand claim about Mitt Romney’s taxes is a solid hit.
Of course Romney could clear it up by following in his father’s footsteps and releasing 12 years of his Federal Income tax forms. He could do this, but he won’t. He has things to hide.
Today–in a very rare moment when he let a few carefully chosen and GPO-friendly press members ask him question–Mitt issued a denial:
“I have paid taxes every year, and a lot of taxes,” Romney said. “So Harry is simply wrong.”
Funny guy.
The issue is: did Mitt ever have a year when he paid zero Federal Income Taxes.
There are lots and lots of different kinds of taxes we all pay. Mitt could have paid–and most likely did pay–lots and lots of property taxes every year. He had three to five estates every year over the last dozen years and his taxes on just his Utah estate were over $42,000 in 2007 and over $50,000 in many other years–and that was just one of his estates. And then there would be other local taxes, state taxes and taxes on various business entities that Mitt owned. And in any year when Mitt actually worked, he would have paid Social Security on his first $106,000 of recorded income.
Mitt could pay all those taxes and then use those payments, loopholes and shell corporations to bring his Federal Income Taxes to zero or at least a rate far, far less than the rate 95 percent of Americans pay.
So, Mitt’s statement, “I have paid taxes every year, and a lot of taxes” is a classic non-denial denial. Of course he paid taxes. What he didn’t say was that he paid Federal Income Taxes every year. His denial is not specific about the type of taxes he paid. His Federal Income Tax payments and the amount or rate he paid for each of the last dozen years is an open question. It will continue to be a fair question to ask and to speculate about until he releases his taxes. Until Mitt provides those returns, it is quite fair to assume that there were years when he used loopholes to pay nothing. His non-denial denial today was just so many more words added to his predictably rancid word salad.
After all, Mitt Romney is very comfortable telling lies–big and small.
Perhaps Harry Reid is wrong about Mitt Romney, but I would need to see 12 years of Mitt’s taxes to confirm that. Without hard evidence to back him up, there is zero reason to take Mitt Romney at his word about anything. Anybody who trusts anything Mitt says is a fool.
Cheers
Forum Transmitted Disease
“Where’s the tax returns?”
Just pull out “birth certificate” and replace. Season with teatard tears. Delicious. Serves 4 more years.
jayackroyd
Ding ding ding ding!
I think you have it, DG.
Baud
I hope Mitt caves because, damn, I really want to see what’s in those taxes.
Villago Delenda Est
Prove it. Release your returns.
You have nothing to lose but your chains, Mittens.
Villago Delenda Est
Has the virtue of being dead on target.
Fire for effect.
amk
Harry Reid is a LIAR
.
.
.
.
.
until mittbot shows his returns.
wrb
It is very strange that he did not phrase his denial so that it actually was a denial of the accusation.
He could have.
Why didn’t he?
Anya
Mittenz, show us on the doll where Harry Reid touched you…
amk
borowitz covers jenna jameson’s clarification of her endorsement of mitt.
“He’s the only person who’s assumed more positions than I have.”
“There’s nothing more American, I think, than screwing people you don’t know for money.”
“Mitt Romney will do to all of America what I have already done to half of America.”
jayackroyd
@Baud:
He has to cave. It’ll just be interesting to see whether he’ll do it before or after labor day. I think it’ll happen within ten days, and we’ll see whether DG is right–that he paid nothing to the IRS in more than one filing year.
Also, you know, there is a big wingnut message investment in the idea that only the fed income tax matters. The Galts are crippled by it, and the dirtbags, half the population, pay zero. So if it turns out that Mittens has used all those local taxes (paid by the dirtbags, but never counted) to offset his federal taxes, well, ooops.
And if he doesn’t release the returns, he’s toast. There’s so much fucking conservative narrative that’ll kill him. “If you’ve done nothing wrong, what are you afraid of?”
And that trope, “what are you afraid of” is an absolutely killer trope for this guy.
rikyrah
Rachel Maddow has done a series of excellent reports this week about how this is nothing new for Willard. How he lied repeatedly during the 2002 election campaign when challenged by Massachusetts Democrats as to why he wasn’t qualified to run for Governor. She laid it out, plain and simple – it was the same sorts of lies, and denials. Trying to pull the same lies today that he did in 2002, when faced with challenges about his tax returns…and it turns out that Willard LIED THEN…so why would he get the benefit of the doubt now?
Really good segments. you should get them and post them, one by one, because they build up to how this is just a repeat of what he did in 2002.
I will say GO HARRY
GO HARRY
GO HARRY
Dexter
Since reading that Jenna Jameson endorsement thread, I am seeing Fredericks blogads. Hmmm!!
The Dangerman
@jayackroyd:
The Wimp cover and the Reid knee to the nads in the same week; lovely “accidental” timing.
Joyhc
I second the reco on Rachel. She is doing a great job of thoroughly covering this.
Anya
Why isn’t Grandpa Walnuts defending Romney? After all he saw 23 years of Romney’s tax returns.
peorgietirebiter
Maddow does a great take down of Mitts lies about his taxes and his ad asking Ted Kennedy “what are you hiding” after Ted declined Mitts demand for Ted to release his Tax records. I don’t think she menrioned the clever word parse though. When I first heard it, my first thought was, that’s true enough, Mitt pays more sales tax that I earn in years. I’d like to know where he bought his yacht and what taxes he dodged in the process. It’s not as if he’d have to to Trailer it home from Monrovia or Caymen personally. Iimagine delivery’s included with you buy the d-bag upscale sporting man!s option to accomodate your warmblood dancing ponies.
Baud
@jayackroyd:
Why? If he were going to release his returns, the time to do it is now and end this thing, when most people still aren’t paying attention. Unless Mitt is trolling, he’s determined that whatever is in those returns is worse for him than keeping them secret.
Soonergrunt
I don’t think he used loopholes to pay zero taxes. That could be spun as “I paid the taxes that were legally required.” People would grumble, but they’d accept that, just as they accept that there are all sorts of things that rich people get away with that are not available to the rest of us because they can afford the lawyers and they have Senators on speed dial.
I think he probably took advantage of the 2009 tax amnesty for people who were illegally hiding money in Swiss banks. Most of those people ($5 billion worth) are VERY rich, just like Mr. Rmoney. This, however, is flat illegal, and there’s no way to spin it. That’s why they aren’t simply dropping the tax returns now and letting the issue burn itself out before the convention, or better yet, to have dropped them months ago and we’d all be talking about something else now. No. He did something blatantly illegal with his personal finances, took an amnesty, and would rather suffer all of this speculation and the crap that goes with it because what’s in those returns documents something unforgivable and unrecoverable.
Villago Delenda Est
As an obscure late 20th Century American politician put it to Mikhail Gorbachev, “trust but verify.”
Omnes Omnibus
@jayackroyd: I disagree that he will cave. If he was going to cave, he should have done so earlier. Doing it now, he just looks weak and all the info gets released into the wild. On second thought, given the skill with which he has been campaigning so far, you may well be right.
rikyrah
@Soonergrunt:
that’s right.
nobody doing LEGAL shyt needs AMNESTY.
AMNESTY means you were doing ILLEGALITY.
RaflW
Had the same thought in the car this afternoon when I heard the ‘denial’: Mitt paid taxes, of course he did, but did he pay Federal income tax.
Glad you front-paged the question. We need answers.
Dexter
Romney not releasing his tax returns is quite baffling. It is now known that he had offshore accounts, so that’s all out there and tax returns showing that won’t be that big of a deal. That leaves zero tax as the only reason why he is not willing to release them.
Another Halocene Human
@peorgietirebiter: As Kerry demonstrated with his yacht, these folks have ways to evade Commonwealth of Massachusetts luxury taxes. Lots of middle class people evade sales tax, too. F’ing disgusting, as far as I’m concerned.
Spaghetti Lee
I think it’s in Mitt’s best interests to not release his returns. “What could be in there?”-type speculation is easier for him and his cronies to slough off than a concrete fact that people would see if the returns got out. I think he knows that, or at least his handlers do.
But who knows? I think Mitt’s a coward and easily swayed. And if he doesn’t like Harry Reid nipping at his heels, wait until Obama brings it up to his face, at a presidential debate. We all know that’s coming, right?
stanchaz
Reid is Right. Release your Returns Romney …or go back to playing dressage! We all have a RIGHT to see a Presidential Candidates tax returns! Unless,,, you’re hiding something Mr. Mitt? p.s. AND how did you stuff all those millions into your tax-loophole IRA while the rest of us poor smucks have limits? You want MORE tax cuts for the rich, Mitt? WHAT GALL! Mitt baby- if you want to run for dog-catcher then keep your returns, and clean off your car roof. Otherwise put up or shut up and go away …. BEFORE the convention. The super-rich think that they have the God-given right to do anything they want in this great country- while the REST of us get screwed! ENOUGH!!!
Villago Delenda Est
@Spaghetti Lee:
“What is in those tax returns that you’re so afraid to share with the American People, Governor?”
The Dangerman
I’m sticking with my prediction from this morning; he HAS to get through the convention, then he can release and take the hit. He either has to release (sometime) or shut the fuck up about it and learn how to say “next question”. His “put up or shut up” was laughable and the nondenial denial was easy to read through.
jwb
@RaflW: After that statement by Romney, I’m certain he had at least one year where he paid no federal income tax. That was weaselly wording and an attempt to be too clever by half. I also think there is more in his taxes than no paying federal income tax.
Am I right in remembering Gingrich going after Romney on taxes during the primary, drawing some blood, but then mysteriously giving up that line of attack?
Baud
@Spaghetti Lee:
I think Obama will bring it up in the context of talking about Mitt’s tax proposals to have massive tax cuts to the wealthy, rather than the way Reid is talking about it now.
jayackroyd
@Baud:
Yeah.
Trouble is he’s tried to ride it out, and it’s not fading, it’s building. You’re gonna have shit like countdown clocks on Colbert. You’re gonna have more speculation–maybe, taxpayers actually paid him money for his fucked up IRAs. If he won’t release speculation is fair game, and while the Dems don’t have Rush, they can still say “Well, hard to say, but I just know none of my neighbors have accumulated 50 million in an IRA.” (The IRA thing is killer–people actually know how that works, and painfully pull money into savings to get the write off).
He can’t ride this out. And he’s gonna have a problem with the tea party folks as well as the general populace.
Not so much with our centrist media, who keep trying to kill this story. WHich is itself instructive.
PeakVT
There’s so many possible reasons for Romney to not release his returns:
1) Zero or negative taxes in one or more years
2) 2009 amnesty
3) They will prove he voted illegally in 2010
4) They will prove he lied about his status at Bain between 1999 and 2002
5) Outright fraud (least likely, IMHO)
6) They will reveal how he built a $100 million IRA (this may be a separate issue from his returns, though)
7) he’s Mitt Fucking Romney, and he’s told all you people need to know
8) all of the above
ETA: 9) Tithing issues
Wazmo
Reid is backing Romney into a corner of his own making, and Romney doesn’t like it. TOUGH SHIT, Mitt.
Mitt has the last clear chance to spike this-and he chooses not to.
That’s all the electorate needs to know.
Baud
@jayackroyd:
Is there any evidence that the tea party folks are thinking of anything except their blind hate for Obama? I don’t they will ever be a problem for Romney.
Omnes Omnibus
@PeakVT: I call a 2 and 7 combo.
rikyrah
@PeakVT:
you forgot:
1. he paid more in tithes to the Mormon Church than in taxes to the country he wants to be elected President.
2. Business dealings partnering with the Mormon Church – using the church status to get out of paying taxes
3. how he gave his sons 100 million dollars – TAX FREE
4. that he, in no ways, is worth 250 million (more than likely 3 times that much)
5. that the salary for those 1999-2002 Bain years was worth far more than a mere 100k a year…’ at least 100k is probably 8 figures per year…and, if he retired retroactively…did he give back that money retroactively
jayackroyd
@Omnes Omnibus:
That’s an argument I can respect. It’s, in fact, the obvious argument if there’s stuff too toxic to release.
But I don’t think he can stonewall this out. ALready the speculation engendered by his trying to stonewall it is as bad as the truth could be. (Or, IS IT?!?) He’s fucked, and that he didn’t deal with this a decade ago says a number of interesting things about the oligarchs who rule us.
millekat
A crack team of speechwriters are working on this right now.”Oh, yeah? What’s in the real birth certificate.”
jayackroyd
@Baud:
Sure. The tea party hated the bail out, and called up their elected officials in the same numbers leftists did. Did you not notice that Romney didn’t waltz to the party on the back of movement conservative ardor?
CW in LA
@rikyrah: Conversely, he stiffed the Mormon church in his tithing?
Donut
This maneuver by Reid and the Obama campaign has been nothing short of masterful. I can’t recall that I have ever seen a more effective political attack. The thing is air tight. They cannot stop it unless they cave, which opens up a whole new set of problems, both tactics-wise and in relation to Romney’s image. The guy caves on releasing his taxes? What else will he cave on? Imagine the conserative heads exploding over that. Mittens took the bait, hook, line and sinker and it’s been a joy to watch these last three days. Reid was the perfect choice to revive the topic. He took it down to the floor of the Senate, too, which was gutsy (for a centrist from Nevada).
More weeks like this, please, Democratic Party.
Omnes Omnibus
@jayackroyd:
That is the part I just don’t understand. from the moment he decided to run, he should have filed his taxes in a way was not toxic. If he had six or eight years he could release without getting killed, he could have done that and then said “Fuck you, you have seen enough.” How could he not have thought of this? Too entitled and too dumb?
Baud
@jayackroyd:
I think Romney had more of a problem with the religious right than the tea party. Nor do I believe that the tea party has any principled stance on anything, except that just about anything the Democrats want to do should be opposed.
feebog
@ Soonergrunt 18:
I think you may have hit the jackpot there Soonergrunt. Think about it; if he was going to release two years worth of returns, why not 2009 and 2010. Instead he releases 2010 and an “estimate” of 2011. Akward, and the fact that he has now pushed the 2011 release to late October gives fodder to those who insist he has really only released one year. Wouldn’t it be nice if some up and coming investigative reporter actuually asked him if he took advantage of the amnesty program.
And it also makes sense that Team Obama would know this. They are waiting for the shoe to drop for sure.
rikyrah
@CW in LA:
actually, that’s the only thing I don’t think he did. I honestly believe he tithed, and I believe he probably did numerous business dealings with the church and pimped their status as a church to get out of paying taxes.
that recent article about Mormon, Inc, added this as part of my supposition about the tax return situation. It’s sort of hard to explain to the American people about possible MILLIONS OF DOLLARS he made while hooked up with the Mormon church without explaning the Mormon church.
wrb
@CW in LA:
People keep raising this but I can’t see how it matters. He’s not going to lose any Mormon votes to the Kenyan.
Mnemosyne
@Soonergrunt:
Normally that might be true, but when Romney is pushing major changes to the tax code that will end up lowering taxes for the 1% and raising taxes on the 99%, it ain’t gonna be easy for him to explain why, exactly, he needs yet another tax break when he’s already paying zero taxes.
jayackroyd
@Omnes Omnibus:
Right. Exactly. If he was the least bit serious about getting involved in national politics, he had to accept the fact that he wasn’t gonna be able to manage his finances like an oligarch.
So that’s the real question. WTF was he thinking that he could be elected president while parking a billion in off shore IRAs? Or not being able to credibly deny doing so?
Baud
Two other possibilities come to mind:
1. Romney’s had business dealings with some embarrassing foreign persons and/or companies.
2. He’s donated to some charity that the GOP base would find unacceptable (pro-choice group for example).
peorgietirebiter
@Another Halocene Human: I was unaware of any kerfuffle about Kerry in Mass. What brought it to my mind was that here in TX yacht brokers just got an extension of a special sales tax rate that was supposed to be a temporary sales boost since they missed out on all the homeland security swag or something. This at a time when they were beating my teacher wife out the raise Gov. Goodhair managed to put off for three years. Not to mention changimg everyones contract to offer more long term job security by eliminating all contractual job security. You can’t make this up and most of her colleagues vote Republican. We’re through the looking glass down here.
Forum Transmitted Disease
1) Zero or negative taxes in one or more years
2) 2009 amnesty
3) They will prove he voted illegally in 2010
4) They will prove he lied about his status at Bain between 1999 and 2002
5) Outright fraud (least likely, IMHO)
6) They will reveal how he built a $100 million IRA (this may be a separate issue from his returns, though)
7) he’s Mitt Fucking Romney, and he’s told all you people need to know
8) all of the above
@PeakVT: You nailed it with number nine. If it ever got out that the Mormon church was running a two-tiered tithing system, it would destroy the Church. And given how Mitt has decided this is his hill to die on, I’m betting that’s the case.
Donut
@Baud:
It’s not the Tea-hadists that are his problem – it’s white, older, Republican leaning so-called independents. They think of themselves as moderates, some of them maybe even voted for Obama in ’08 and regret it. They don’t like Mmittens much already, and the tax attack compounds that issue.. If they are turned off and don’t turn out in big enough numbers in FL, OH, IA, CO and VA, Romney is just done, electoral college-wise .
Omnes Omnibus
@Donut: You know, people complained about politicians like Reid “keeping his powder dry” but I wonder if an attack like this would be as effective if it were not coming from someone like Reid. I wonder if this is the start of using the powder that has been kept dry for so long.
David Koch
Maddow was freaking out tonight, insulting Harry Reid.
Sad.
wrb
@rikyrah:
If he did this that’s a felony right there, or so I’ve read.
Could he really have brought himself to pay the $30m or so in taxes he would have owed?
amk
@Omnes Omnibus: What I don’t understand is how the MA dems let him get away with it all (no tax-returns, residency kerfuffle etc.) and made him a govnor of a frigging blue state. Obama team better study up on how the MA dems fucked that one up and prepare the rectifications.
amk
@David Koch: Really ?I thought she took mittbot to task ?
jl
Listened to the clip. Mit didn’t say he paid US taxes. Now, I’m not saying anything, I’m just saying he didn’t specify US taxes, is all.
At this point it is irresponsible not to speculate, this grifter might be the next President, for Pete’s sake!
The guy always comes across like a bad con man who can’t get his mind off the fact that his pitch is total con, and worry about the mark catching on starts oozing out of every pore from the second he opens his mouth. But, I am biased, I guess. I read up on facts.
Donut
@Omnes Omnibus:
Yeah, that’s what I’m getting at. He is not known as an attack dog. He’s a deal-maker, doesn’t crave the spotlight in the same way as a Chuck Schumer. Perfect choice to do this because it carries just a little more weight with the press and punditry.
Maude
@jayackroyd:
There was a news item a few months ago that Switzerland was going to hand over more bank info to the US.
Romney has a serious problem. I don’t know what the issue is with his tax returns, but he thinks it’s serious enough to stonewall. He’s not doing it for political reasons.
Maybe he’s afraid to hear those famous words from a judge: Will the defendant please rise?
rikyrah
@David Koch:
did we watch the same segment?
Maddow was blistering towards Willard. this was but one in a series of segments this week where Maddow has pointed out that Willard pulled this tax return CON in 2002, and that he’s trying to do it again.
She pointed out that Willard did the same thing to his opponent in 2002 that Harry Reid is doing now.
I didn’t think she was anti-Reid at all.
Gex
@CW in LA: Why not both? He could have under-tithed and yet paid even less in taxes.
Geoduck
@amk: My understanding is that his opponent, Shannon O’Brien, was spectacularly underwhelming on the campaign trail and dogged with scandal allegations.
dance around in your bones
This may be the theme song of Mitt’s campaign (and just as cheesy of a production).
Hill Dweller
Speaking of back-stabbing Democrats, I just saw one of Rove’s ads going after Obama for negative attacks on Willard, which uses an Ed Rendell quote about ‘going too far’.
David Koch
Arianna Huffington did this.
She ran for Governor in 2003, during the Gray Davis recall freak show, and it turned out she hadn’t paid any taxes.
So when cornered, Huffington said, she had paid a lot of taxes – property taxes.
wrb
I’m curious.
What percentage of those who have offshore accounts- especially in places like the Cayman Islands that don’t reveal who owns the account or what money is in it- don’t do it to cheat on taxes?
That is the purpose innit?
Twit has his money offshore because it likes the food or wants to learn the language or why?
mainmati
Yep, this is the corollary of those Gooptards that trot out the lameism that 47% of Americans pay no taxes, i.e. kids under 18, disabled people, retired people, people too poor to meet the minimum Fed tax limit, the unemployed, etc. Yes, the 1% have successfully created a system where most of the money goes to a tiny fraction of the population. Therefore, taxes…
feebog
@ David Koch:
Maddow took Mittens to the woodshed tonight. Get back on your meds.
mainmati
Yep, this is the corollary of those Gooptards that trot out the lameism that 47% of Americans pay no taxes, i.e. kids under 18, disabled people, retired people, people too poor to meet the minimum Fed tax limit, the unemployed, etc. Yes, the 1% have successfully created a system where most of the money goes to a tiny fraction of the population. Therefore, taxes…
mai naem
I am wondering if this guy is going to make it out of Tampa as the nominee. I kinda wish Reid had waited till it was closer to Tampa or even past Tampa. The thing is do Republicans even have an option? Didn’t Santorum, Gingrich and Perry not qualify in all of the states. Ron Paul is a nutcase so I don’t even count him in.
rikyrah
@wrb:
there are three types of people with accounts in the Caymans:
1. tax cheats
2. criminals
3. terrorists
yes, this is the company Willard’s money keeps.
peorgietirebiter
@amk: She did but after she talked about Jon Stewart’s rant against Reid, adding, “…righfully so.”. It was a little schizo but in the end it was Mitt who got both barrels from her.
feebog
@ David Koch:
Maddow took Mittens to the woodshed tonight. Get back on your meds.
PeakVT
@rikyrah: I think all except the first are good additions. I don’t think tithing more than he paid in taxes would be a problem by itself (i.e. if he paid 15% and tithed 20% that would be acceptable), but paying a single-digit rate would be.
jl
@wrb: The job creators’ productive ways are mysterious, and beyond us parasitic lesser persons’ ken. We would not understand.
Just as those ex Clinton and Bush number hack economists did not understand the ineffable materialization of the Romney tax cut boom upon his coronation in 2013.
And, shut up! Mitt’s running for president for Pete’s sakes!
rikyrah
@wrb:
there are 3 types of people with money in the Caymans:
1. tax cheats
2. criminals
3. terrorists.
this is the company Willard’s money keeps.
LanceThruster
@Villago Delenda Est: I believe protocol does not require former govs to be called governor; only senators and presidents.
(I looked it up for Ms. Palin).
Mr. Romney is more than he deserves, though it would be funny to call him “elder” Romney, or “bishop” Romney.
dww44
@rikyrah: Well, she did open up the show/segment with a direct criticism of Reid. I do think she presented this for effect as a good lead-in to her long piece on how Romney lied 10 years ago when running for governor and even before that in his run against Ted Kennedy. Might postulate that it all was for dramatic effect.
That was my take, cause I was a bit disappointed that she agreed with Jon Stewart, but then she’s always put Stewart on a bit of a pedestal.
JasonF
One interesting theory I’ve seen floated is the following: back in 2009, UBS struck a deal with the government and provided the identities of a number of US citizens with Swiss bank accounts. These were accounts of people who had used the Swiss bank accounts to avoid paying taxes. The IRS provided an amnesty to those people, provided they paid their back taxes, but the people identified by UBS were, in fact, felons who had illegally avoided taxes. The theory is that Mitt Romney was ones those people, and his 2009 return will prove that he is, in fact, a felon.
It is, of course, only a theory, based on nothing more than rank speculation, but since Romney refuses to release his returns, that’s really all we have to go on.
amk
@peorgietirebiter: stewart’s feefees seems to get hurt easily these days. fuck him if he can’t see the difference between dems and the thugs.
PeakVT
On behalf of many, FYWP.
Maude
@Omnes Omnibus:
I know a couple who are the same as Romney. It is the money and that brings a sense of special protection, goodness and ignorance.
They believe everything they think is right.
They are easy to lie to and fool. The arrogance is enormous.
I don’t really understand it, but I know it when I see it.
I am going to have one heck of a hissy fit this next week. I lent my laptop to someone and told him that if there was a problem, bring it back to me. I am a tech and this computer was given to me. I put a lot of work into it, it was running like silk and it has it’s little quirks.
I emailed him, telling him I wanted it back Monday and in his reply, he told me he opened an email and the computer went sour. He gave it to an IT guy and it would be done by next weekend.
I am going to tap dance on his head.
Now I feel stupid and like a fool. I want my baby back.
Omnes Omnibus
@wrb: Well, my money enjoys the skiing.
dead existentialist
Somebody’s blind trust just winked.
Omnes Omnibus
@wrb: Well, my money enjoys the skiing.
David Koch
@feebog: She called Reid’s statement a “strange attack”, “that’s outrageous”, “it’s weird”, “it rightfully got Senator Reid absolutely roasted on The Daily Show”.
She then said, Mittens did it too.
She could have done without tisking and fainting couch routine on Reid.
Wazmo
It’s time to destroy the GOP once and for all, as they have taken conservatism and perverted it beyond anybody’s wildest dreams. Anything less than the total surrender of the GOP is appeasement.
Geoduck
@mai naem:
Romney is going to be the GOP nominee, come hell or high water.
RaflW
@jl:
That’s some twisted, beautifully suspicious thinking.
Omnes Omnibus
@RaflW: Lawyerly even.
Dexter's new approach
It would be hilarious(ly sad) if Mitt was part of that 50% the tea fuckers are constantly bitching about (even though it’s almost certain the tea fuckers are ~50% non-fed-tax-payers too)
Job creators my ass, more like non-tax payers. The Treasury estimates the net cost of tax evasion or more nicely non-compliance is ~$300b, or about half of what the govt spends on “welfare” programs.
dead existentialist
@PeakVT: Do you have to make multiple comments?
Ha-ha, just kidding.
FYWP can be avoided by posting your comment ONCE, and if you get the time out notice, using the back key to back out of the comment area and then refreshing the page. Your comment should appear (so no need to resubmit it or anything) although sometimes it shows up waaaaaay down the thread.
I’m using Firefox and it’s happened to me a few times. Kind of a lot of work to post a lame comment, huh?
bemused senior
Here is my theory on Harry Reid’s informant, who has been described as “a Bain investor”. In a partnership, each partner gets the same copy of the partnership tax return which they file as part of their own tax return (Schedule K, I believe). Now if the Bain investment funds were structured as partnerships, with Mitt as the general partner, the investors would have seen that part of Mitt’s return, because it also was part of their return. Perhaps these showed no tax liability for the partners. I’d like to hear opinions from someone who knows much more about tax law than I do. This is based solely on my small business partnership tax return, before we incorporated.
Omnes Omnibus
@dead existentialist: And if you don’t hit post multiple times and it still does it? What then?
mainmati
@PeakVT: Yep, you nailed it.
amk
@Omnes Omnibus:
Maude
@Omnes Omnibus:
I hit submit and then played free cell. By the time I lost twice, the comment posted.
pseudonymous in nc
@jayackroyd:
More broadly, as I’ve said before, filling out tax returns is an experience shared by more Americans than watching the Super Bowl and the Oscars (and the Olympics). And Romney’s returns aren’t anything like those of 99.9% of Americans.
Omnes Omnibus
@Maude: I am listening to the Ramones’ Rocket to Russia. It diminishes my patience. Plus I still have 11 more minutes of birthday and I prefer that they go my way.
Anne Laurie
@rikyrah:
When Romney was running for governor here ten years ago, the suspicion was that Bain was a “front” where Romney acted as a figurehead for suspiciously-not-Mormon Wall Street banksters to take those hard-earned tithe dollars from trailer-park working-class Mormons in the Heartland(tm) for investment — while taking a hefty chunk of “service fees” along the way. The question, never answered, was how much baksheesh went to Willard and his fellow high-status bishops in return for bleeding their obedient lessers. If there’s any truth at all to those stories, Romney’s doubly fuxxored now: If (when) it comes out, every Mormon not in the top economic tier is going to feel personally betrayed. And at the same time, a lot of non-Mormons are going to hear the narrative as “powerful cultist fleeces his followers, not for faith, but for money & power”. So Mitt will look like a combination of Jamie Dimond and Tom Cruise… not a good image for the guy who wants to be president!
dance around in your bones
It seems to me that ever since the site re-do, multiple posts have been a feature.
It seems to me that ever since….etc Ѿ
The Dangerman
@Geoduck:
Almost surely so, but, in monitoring FOX, the morale is obviously way, WAY down over Romney’s chances. He’s like poker’s dead money … and he’s starting to stink.
ETA: Fuck me; used a bad word and I’m in the digital dungeon. LET ME OUT!!
Maude
@Omnes Omnibus:
Happy Birthday to you.
Omnes Omnibus
@Maude: Thanks.
redshirt
I’m going to sue this thread for making me crazy. I feel like I just went through some alternate dimensional time warp thingee.
Omnes Omnibus
@redshirt: No, no, no, once you are crazy, things are so much easier.
Gex
@redshirt: Best laugh I’ve had today. Thanks, Mate!
dance around in your bones
@Omnes Omnibus: Happy 2 more minutes of BIRTHDAY!
Omnes Omnibus
@dance around in your bones: Well, in my time zone, it is now “Happy birthday, Mr. President.”
magurakurin
@PeakVT: I’m thinking that it’s 9 and there is some behind the scenes Moron issues going on here between Rmoney, Reid and his source
scav
@redshirt: Good practice for far too many aspects of the political landscape, actually. Sort of the Vomit Comet compared to the real thing.
dance around in your bones
@Omnes Omnibus: Wait, Marilyn is singing to you in a breathy whisper?
scav
@Omnes Omnibus: We’re playing with time here. Celebrate until at least the Hawaiian Time Zone and then repeat a few celebrations at random.
Anne Laurie
@feebog:
Consider the source. This particular entity is happiest when other commentors are pixel-screaming at each other. If he can distract the rest of us to start arguing about whether Maddow was “too hard” on Reid, he’ll have a new warm fuzzy to cuddle all weekend.
Omnes Omnibus
@dance around in your bones: Let me check the apartment. If I don’t come back, you may assume something good happened.
@scav: Ideas… intrigued… subscribe… newsletter.
freelancer
@Omnes Omnibus:
Happy Birthday, OO!
Anne Laurie
@Omnes Omnibus: Happy belated birthday, and many happy returns, apart from those phantom comments…
redshirt
I am on a float in the backyard pool of my rich neighbor. Marco?
dance around in your bones
@Omnes Omnibus: Check the heating grates first…
Omnes Omnibus
@freelancer: @Anne Laurie: Thank you both. I have felt discomfort about my birthday ever since I discovered, earlier this year, that I share it with Tom Brady.
dead existentialist
@Maude: Hilarious!
dead existentialist
@Maude: I’m fucking still laughing! This is ridiculous.
Yutsano
@Omnes Omnibus:
I have a friend who has the same birthday as Hitler. No she never lives it down.
karen
I tried to post this before….
Is the McCain Oppo research 2008 real?
redshirt
@Yutsano: 4/20 man! Smoke!
dead existentialist
@Omnes Omnibus: Well, ya gets ya a Phillip screwdriver and a hammer. And ya . . . .
+
Villago Delenda Est
@Yutsano:
My sister informed me I share a birthday with Sarah Palin.
AIEEEEEEEEEE!
Steeplejack
@redshirt:
Polo! [submerging under water]
BillinGlendaleCA
I recenty found out that I share a birthday with Benny Hill.
dead existentialist
@redshirt: Polo!
(Somebody was bound to answer. I’d hoped it wouldn’t be me, but there you are.)
patrick II
@Villago Delenda Est:
Nice try, but the Hitler one still wins.
Amir Khalid
@Omnes Omnibus:
Really? I share mine with David Hasselhoff.
SatanicPanic
This thread is borked.
dead existentialist
@BillinGlendaleCA: Well here’s your legacy.
Embrace it.
freelancer
@Omnes Omnibus:
Oh whatever. Birthdays are the weirdest group of people and events imagined. I share my birthday with Claire Danes, David Letterman, David Cassidy, Tom Clancy, Tiny Tim, Herbie Hancock, Ed O’Neill, Jon Krakauer, Jennifer Morrison, Yuri Gagarin’s first flight into space, the first launch of the Space Shuttle STS-1, the date of the catch of largest tuna in the world, and the firing of Fort Sumpter.
Birthdays couldn’t be more random.
AntiCliche
I’m just praying this isn’t n-dimensional chess on the part of the RMoney team, having learned the lesson of Trump and The Long Form. Surely the indications we do have about incriminating stuff in the returns is more solid than the cogi-Taitz-tion about PDF layering the birthers were able to put together?
Yutsano
@Amir Khalid: All I get is Grace Slick. My birthday is not conducive to fame.
SatanicPanic
@AntiCliche: I thought about that for a brief moment, and then, given the way they’ve handled the rest of their dumbass campaign, decided that’s highly unlikely.
freelancer
@Yutsano:
If you’re 10/30, you get more than Slick. Henry Fucking Winkler.
patrick II
@AntiCliche:
No, I don’t think so. Anyone that rich and who did the type of vulture capitalism he did and had foreign bank accounts was going to give ammunition to the democrats. The only options for these tax returns are bad and terrible. If they were just bad I think he would have released them and taken his hits already. Or at least he should have — so I’m going with terrible.
Amir Khalid
Clint Eastwood has endorsed Mitt. Not surprising for Eastwood, given the man’s a lifelong Republican, but still kind of disappointing.
jwb
@AntiCliche: Playing that game would here would be utterly pointless. Have Romney spend a month or more looking clueless, and then release tax returns that in the best case scenario look like the 2010 returns? It just makes no sense.
I’m guessing someone is going to play a Rovian gambit and float some forged returns in the near future. An even better play would be to use one year of Romney’s actual returns that are not particularly horrible and have them leaked in a way that looks like they were obtained illegally and then call in all the GOP media favors to get the MSM throw the grand daddy of all hissy fits.
SatanicPanic
@Amir Khalid: I thought he was kind of going the Merle Haggard route, but maybe not. I still love the guy, but I agree, it’s a little disappointing.
Yutsano
@Amir Khalid: I guess it’s not too surprising. Although why Clint wants to be in league with a porn star is beyond me. He’s a money Republican though, not big on the social issues bullcwap.
Anne Laurie
@freelancer:
I share mine with Abigail Adams, Dostoyevsky, George Patton, and Kurt Vonnegut. All frustrated authors — especially the two who were best known for their books :)…
Gex
@Amir Khalid: Nothing like someone who’s pro-gay voting for Republicans all the time. Why bother saying anything nice at all, Clint? We get it. Your tax cuts are more important than other human beings.
NotMax
Granted that Mitt only sits for questions with ostensibly ‘friendly’ media (and only very rarely, even then), but the questions I would want asked:
“Did you receive or did you carry over a refund on your federal income taxes at any time during this century, yes or no?”
If met with the “I’ll have to get back to you on that” follow up with “Fine, when? Let’s set a date and time convenient for you right now, on the record.”
If met with “I’ve released all the information I’m going to release” follow up with “So you categorically will NOT deny receiving a refund on your federal taxes.”
Hey, a guy can still dream, right?
wrb
@rikyrah: @rikyrah:
And other unappetizing or unappealing business dealings.
It is not unusual for someone with his sort of MBA mind to invest in a business that he as an individual, in private, non-corporate life would consider immoral provided it is profitable. Because what is ethical for a corporation is whatever profits its shareholders and it seams clear the Twit has fully internalized this “morality,”
Porn, gambling,.. something worse…the fetuses, how did he make a profit from all those unaccounted fetuses the business he bought collected?
Other ne
dance around in your bones
Just found out I share a b’day with Ted Nugent.
Shoot me now.
On the plus side, Steve Buscemi.
Maude
@wrb:
I must disagree on one point. There is no evidence that Romney has a mind.
xian
@Donut: I look forward refreshing draughts of weepy wingnut tears in the winter complaining about Democrats and their “politics of personal destruction” from the party of Vince Foster and Long-Form Birth Certificates.
mainmati
@wrb: He talks like a corporate lawyer all the time when he’s not talking like a robot.
xian
@Omnes Omnibus: I’d say too greedy.
what
Romney’s justification for not releasing his tax returns is that it will be used by the Obama campaign against him as noisy distraction.
Perhaps he can be challenged on this….
If he releases 10 more yrs of tax returns (preferably prior to the rather extended period in which he has been professionally running for president) and none of those years involve him paying less than the 13.9% he paid in the 1 year he released, then the official campaign will declare it off limits.
If he’s still not willing to release it…then well….
xian
@feebog: even the 2011 thing is a transparent bullshit move he couldn’t get his fucking taxes done on time? he must have an army of accountants after all.
NotMax
@what
No negotiating, no conditions. This is the big leagues.
Per Harry Truman: “If you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.”
AxelFoley
@Anya:
Win
NotMax
Interesting take from across the pond.
How would Jesus vote?
barath
Stupid question – where did Reid specify Federal income taxes? I only see the word “taxes” and the context didn’t seem to specify a particular type of taxes.
NotMax
@barath
Reid’s mention of precedent, of releases by other presidential candidates, and of Mitt’s father carry an implicit statement of meaning federal income taxes.
barath
@NotMax:
Hmm…seems kind of obscure.
BillinGlendaleCA
@barath: It’s only obscure if it’s in your interests for it to be so.
What NoMax said.
NotMax
@barath
Not obscure at all, as George Romney was the first presidential candidate to release his federal taxes, and he released 12 years’ worth, along with a specific warning that only a single year’s tax return might be extremely misleading.
Calouste
And even then, I don’t think Reid and Obama will mind that Mitt brings up, say, paying property taxes on a primary residence in New Hampshire while voting in Massachusetts.
The prophet Nostradumbass
Well, it’s officially my birthday now, along with the President’s. Woo-hoo, et cetera.
JGabriel
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Dennis G. @ Top:
I actually find Mitt engaging in a non-denial denial kind of puzzling.
We all know Romney has no problem lying. He doesn’t do it well, but — I guess with the adage of Practice Makes Perfect lodged in his brain — Romney lies with the frequency of rats fucking.
So why a non-denial denial? Why not just flat out lie and say he paid federal income taxes the entire time? It’s not like getting caught in a lie bothers him. Romney gets caught lying all the time — and he doesn’t care, because he’s still rich afterwards.
.
JGabriel
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stanchaz:
I think we need substantial numbers of people to show up at Romney rallies and chant, “Release Your Tax Returns! Release Your Tax Returns! Release Your Tax Returns! Release Your Tax Returns!”
The prophet Nostradumbass
@David Koch:
I just watched the Maddow segment on that, and you are, in short, lying about it.
Thor Heyerdahl
Found out I share my birthday with:
Some Singers: Queen Latifah, Wilson Pickett
Some athletes: Timo Glock, Kimmo Timonen, Bonnie Blair, Guy Carbonneau
Some creatives: Ernest Gallo, Rudolph Diesel
Some je ne sais quois: Seymore Butts, Neville Chamberlain
Some assholes: Reince Priebus, Dane Cook
Bill
Notice that the paid preparer signed Romney’s 2010 return on 10/15/2011. These guys always take the six-month extension so they can figure out their schemes. We won’t see Romney’s 2011 returns before they are finished on October 15.
sb
@Thor Heyerdahl: Not bad.
I share a birthday with Stan Laurel and that’s about it.
Older_Wiser
“…rancid word salad.”
How many Sarah Palin moments is her male counterpart going to have?
Some more juicy bits on Rmoney here: http://politicalgates.blogspot.de/2012/08/the-leaked-stratfor-emails-exclusive.html
AxelFoley
@PeakVT:
In Soviet Russia, WPFY.
Snarla
So many talking points. If Mitt didn’t pay federal income taxes, that means he has “no skin in the game” and shouldn’t be allowed to vote, according to various RWNJs.
He paid lots and lots of taxes, but $374,000 is “not very much.”
kay
Well, I think it’s great. This is a long time coming for Harry Reid.
I listened to a long interview with Norm Ornstien and he says Republican obstructionism in Congress under Obama is unprecedented in US history. He gave example after example. Unprecedented in US history. And media won’t admit it.
So, Harry Reid has been dealing with these douchebags on a daily basis fir almost 4 years.
He’s human. If he’s exacting revenge, I can’t blame him. If he’s retiring, he won’t get another shot at them, in a way that
can hurt the whole Party.
Next he should ask if Romney is
collecting tax returns from the VP
contenders, and how far back he’s going.
Then he can start on the IRA and the
trust for the Romney boys, and where
are the returns for the trust?
rikyrah
Rachel Maddow has a series of segments this week that I think should be seen together. In them, Maddow dissects Willard and the tax returns, showing clearly that he tried this same program in 2002. She also shows, beyond a shadow of a doubt, how Willard LIED in 2002, pointing out to the rest of the MSM, that Willard has given up the right to be given the ‘ benefit of the doubt’, when it was obvious that in 2002, he lied through his teeth. Here’s a hint, Willard pulled the old ‘ retroactive’ card back then too. How come ‘ retroactivity’ comes into play when Willard is caught in, what would be considered FELONIES with other folks? How many folks get to LIE to GOVERNMENT ENTITIES and don’t get charged?
Segment One:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#48454163
Segment Two
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#48497159
Segment Three
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#48497173
WaterGirl
Has David Letterman done a Top Ten Reasons why Romney won’t release his tax returns yet?
That’s the point at which the so-called media won’t be able to ignore it anymore. Kinda like Gramps McCain was screwed when he ditched the letterman show and lied about it, and Dave really lit into the absent McCain.
WaterGirl
I have seen (multiple times) the TV ad where Romney singing america the beautiful while we see on-screen just what a fraud Romney is.
The thing is, I live in Illinois, so I’m surprised to be seeing any Obama ads at all.
Don’t they usually ignore the states that are slam dunks? Or is the Obama campaign smart enough not to take anything for granted? Or maybe they want to run up the popular vote as much as they can?
WaterGirl
MoveOn should run one of their video contests for the best commercial, where people submit videos of the top 5 or 10 reasons they think Mitt isn’t releasing his taxes.
Jay in Oregon
@Thor Heyerdahl:
I share my birthday with Ted Raimi, Patty Duke, Nostradamus, and Tycho Brahe.
On the other end of life’s skein: George Washington, Joe Simon (co-creator of Captain America), and Vlad the Impaler all died on my birthday.
George W. Bush got two shoes thrown at him on his last trip to Iraq; Mary Stuart becomes Mary, Queen of Scots; and Alabama became the 22nd U.S. state (and has apparently regretted it ever since).
Michael Bersin
@Villago Delenda Est: Uh, I think you got the wrong century. I do believe the movie actor worked at 19th Century Fox Studios.
Jinchi
Mitt Romney has said repeatedly that he’d be a sucker if he ever paid more than he was legally required to. We know he has an aggressive tax accountant (who else can get an IRA worth $100,000,000).
So the question is could someone in Mitt’s situation have paid virtually no income taxes?
If so, why would we vote for this sucker?