For those who might be wondering who the hell I am and what I’m doing here — just passing through. DougJ kindly slipped me a spare key on way out the door to his current undisclosed location. I’ll be gone once he gets back. I have a couple of other personal blogs, but from now until November I’ll be doing most of my serious posting at Detroit News, where I’ve been blogging to keep Michigan blue since 2004.
In all those years, I posted about Mormons for the first time just this weekend. Since then I’ve been deluged with emails from Mormons. Really long emails. With multiple links. They’re apparently very sensitive about how their charitable contributions are calculated.
I read all the way through every one of them because, I know nothing about Mormons. Never even met one in real life. They tell me they are not an organized group. They don’t speak on behalf of the church. Yet their emails are nearly identical. Except for this one stray bit which caught my interest:
There is a book out on the Mormon way of doing business. We are trained from a young age to learn skills that can be transferred to the business world.
I want to read this book. I wonder if I can buy it without joining.
Also too, open thread if you want it.
flukebucket
“The Mormon Way of Doing Business” by Jeff Benedict
I guess that is the one. You can buy it at Amazon
jheartney
They tell me they are not an organized group. They don’t speak on behalf of the church. Yet their emails are nearly identical.
Them and the scientologists, birds of a feather.
Brachiator
Sound as though they have picked up a few tricks from the Scientologists.
Elsewhere, here’s a fun bit of news:
Those pesky Canadians, with their stable economy and universal health care. How dare they.
Linda Featheringill
Amazon. About 10.00. Click through the BJ site and John will get a couple of coins.
Savage Henry
If I remember correctly, Dale Carnegie’s “How to Make Friends and Influence People” was originally titled “How To Be Better Mormon” or some such. It has certainly made it around business circles for the past many, many years. That might be a good place to start.
Nicole
Gawker had a link to a story about a guy in the Aurora shooting who left his fiancée and kids in the theater while he ran like hell:
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_21124909/young-family-survives-aurora-theater-shooting
I don’t judge the guy; I can’t begin to imagine what I’d do in that kind of situation, but after getting really annoyed yesterday by that dumb Slate piece about men just naturally protecting their wimminfolk, I confess I found the article a little satisfying.
(Spoiler: everyone in the family got out okay)
flukebucket
Hell, there is even video of the Mormon business magic.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
Tangentailly related.
Face
Not “way of doing praying” or “way of giving to charity” or “way of helping the poor”. Bidness.
Yeah, they’re certainly not a cult.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): I can’t type for shit, nor can I edit. FYWP.
WaterGirl
As I have said before, I will be sorry to see you go! Maybe this time Cole would have the good sense to ask you to stay.
(Has Cole noticed you’re here yet? I suppose that would be the first step.)
SteveM
Looks like you can buy a used copy for change found under the sofa cushions.
suzanne
Well, I’ve met literally thousands of them. Most of them are very lovely people. I like many of them, and love quite a few. And yet I know that they are completely full of shit, and your observations regarding their tendency for groupthink square with my experience 100%. The persecution complex is strong with them, and they belong to a very concentrated organization that varies very little across place and time—hence the extreme similarity.
Punchy
Perhaps time to go Red, White, and Blue Dawn on them?
LanceThruster
@Nicole: I would have to say that in almost any survival situation, there’s an element much like the safety announcement airlines give (“In the event of cabin depressurization, put on your own oxygen mask before helping others.”)
Deele
@Nicole: Make that EX-fiance, most likely.
Libby Spencer
@flukebucket: Thanks for saving me the search.
trollhattan
Last BJ thread on this topic I was involved in eventually yielded some significant Mormon butthurt in comments, re. unfair and deeply held librule prejudice. Will be expecting more of same in 3,2,1…
Their “charitable works” include pouring millions into California’s Prop 8, which not only stole civil rights from nonbelievers, it continues to cost us many more millions in its wake. Of course they have a long and proud history of limiting the rights of certain undesirables, so playing to strengths and all.
Yutsano
@Punchy: I for one welcome our new Canadian overlords.
Dork
@Nicole: Getting out OK was the least of his worries. I cannot imagine the crap he’s hearing–and will hear for the next 60 years–from his fiance about his “cowardice”.
I suspect he’ll need to postpone the wedding and think this marriage over.
brent
@Brachiator: I have seen this mentioned in a few places and it is interesting but I believe, as it has also been pointed out in a few places, that this may be the result of a housing bubble in Canada. We’ll certainly know soon enough.
22over7
The other day I asked where Romney’s ground troops were, since I’ve not seen a bumper sticker, a leaflet, a lawn sign, or a local office yet.
Someone here suggested that he was going to use the church for his volunteers. Maybe the church is on high alert for negative reporting, and your coincidentally identical emails are part of the overall election plan.
My hat? Very shiny and silvery, yes, thank you.
suzanne
I will note that, for all the greed and glorification of business acumen, many of them are POOR POOR POOR. Many of the LDS families I grew up knowing had eight children, while Dad had a blue-collar job and Mom stayed home. Many, MANY of them were on free or reduced lunch, Medicaid, welfare, sleeping two and three to beds. I imagine that alleviating this kind of poverty through the worship of money is due in part to the Church’s recognition that many of its members are suffering financially and therefore aren’t tithing much.
hep kitty
No one wants to touch the Mormon thing cuz “all religions are the same” OR “it’s not nice to do that”
Well, this is going to come up at some point in the campaign where people will want to know what Mormonism is all about and the church is so very secretive, it will be interesting to see how they handle that. (Or does questioning a candidate about his/her faith only apply when he/she is a Democrat)?
People who consider themselves Christian (we are talking NON-Christianists) but may not be particularly religious and don’t know anything about the Book of Mormon are still going to be very disturbed by what they read. It is not a major religion, it is not Christianity. So what’s it all about?
And, Mitt Romney (and I’m sure his family) thinks God wants him to be president which is the only reason he is putting himself through the degradation and agony of mingling with the help.
I am just saying.
peach flavored shampoo
Show me a Black Mormon and I’ll show you a white guy with a ton of black shoe polish.
Chyron HR
The Mormon way of doing business:
1) Do nothing.
2) ??????
3) Get paid at least $100,000 a year.
Brachiator
@Nicole:
James Taranto would approve this message.
@Savage Henry:
Never heard this before, and can’t find anything that confirms this.
Libby Spencer
@WaterGirl: Sshhh. I’m hoping he won’t notice… But thanks for the encouragement.
pragmatism
i believe that is maize and blue.
suzanne
@22over7:
Honestly, they all seem to respond in similar ways to any sort of challenge, not merely related to Rmoney or their increased negative publicity the past couple of years. It’s a very top-down, centralized organization that encourages specific talking points. That’s why all the missionaries are carbon copies of each other, too. (Also explains why missionaries serving overseas are instructed to refrain from telling even their families about the crappy/nonexistent medical care and appalling conditions they endure.)
Angela
@Nicole: There was a young black man who stepped in
to help the young mother get the kids out of the theatre. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/20/jarell-brooks-aurora-hero_n_1690579.html
MonkeyBoy
I guess to become CEO of a big company a Mormon needs to learn to suppress their instinct to cheat and screw over non-Morons.
Such adversarial traits and a sense of self-righteousness are useful in business as long as they are moderated.
Libby Spencer
@suzanne: I have to say they are very passionate in their defense but they have all been very polite. They do seem like nice people, but the similarity in their talking points was kind of eerie.
hep kitty
@Nicole: Well, I guess the fiance and kids just weren’t “worth it”
Mnemosyne
@Nicole:
I remember reading a very poignant story about a woman who was a security guard at the Murraugh Building in Oklahoma City. She had always thought of herself as a very tough, very prepared person, but when the actual bombing happened, she completely fell apart and was unable to be any help at all. It was really, really difficult for her to reconcile her self-image with what her actual reaction to an emergency was. I’m not sure what happened to her.
Which is a very convoluted way of saying none of us knows how we’ll react in an emergency until an emergency actually happens. It sounds like this guy is in for a whole lot of soul-searching about the disconnect between how he saw himself and what he actually did.
(Having been through a few emergencies — primarily earthquakes — my reaction seems to be to freeze, but I’m not sure how that would change if I was with someone I felt responsible for, like a child.)
Mino
And then there is this: Saul Alinsky would be right at home.
http://themormonworker.wordpress.com/
A lot of their young men are radicalized during their missions and don’t “recover”.
And if you are following Senate shennanigans, McConell is daring Reid to bring dueling tax bills up for simple majority votes. Blue Dogs are doing their thing, too.
joel hanes
@WaterGirl:
Libby blogs about national topics at The Impolitic
Book mark it, read it, maybe drop a few quatloos in the donations box.
jibeaux
@Nicole: I don’t judge him either, but I do wonder a bit how you lose a 4 month old who was in your arms when you were in the theater. You would think instinct and adrenaline would prevent you from putting the baby down.
DFS
@peach flavored shampoo: I knew exactly one (1) black Mormon growing up, actually, a former Pentecostal who converted. As to what his deal was, I could not tell you. But he was a hell of a nice guy.
Nate W.
As a former Mormon who was born and raised in the faith (and still living in Utah), I’m not sure that “The Mormon Way of Doing Business” was what this person was referring to. I’ve never heard of this guy Jeff Benedict, and I don’t think I’ve been out of the loop long enough to not recognize a Mormon celebrity. It’s just as likely that your emailer was talking about “Seven Habits of Highly Successful People” by Stephen Covey–this guy was an out-and-out Mo-lebrity.
LanceThruster
While this is certainly anecdotal, it is my experience growing up with Mormon neighbors. I am the middle child of a widower father who sent us to Catholic school as possible insurance for a better upbringing having no mother (and the schools were thought to be superior to the local public schools).
I learned not to go over there and ask them to play softball in the cul de sac on Mondays because it was “Family Home Evening” (they’d look at you like something you’d scrape off your shoe).
On the days they were not restricted, the Mormon boys would brag (for lack of a better word) about what they learned in their Sunday school (We have our own radio and TV station, we have our own state, the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, etc.).
I’d go and aks my dad about our church in comparison. After awhile he got frustrated with their constant one-upsmanship and told me to tell them, “We’ve got our own country within a country, our own army, diplomatic envoys, international radio and TV networks, many award winning films and television depictions, worldwide charities and civic organizations, hospitals…and we were the first expression of Christianity (in so many words).”
The LDS kids toned down their bragging substantially after that.
I am an atheist now (my dad was only ever a nominal Catholic anyway – barely even Easter and Xmas mass), but I am still appreciative of my Catholic upbringing (and salute those Catholics more about true justice than dogma), and remember the words of Father Murphy at my confirmation, “Attending mass on Sundays should be a joy, not a burden. If you don’t get anything out of fellowshipping with others there, for God’s sake, don’t go!”
Thank you, Fr. Murphy.
Nate W.
As a former Mormon who was born and raised in the faith (and still living in Utah), I’m not sure that “The Mormon Way of Doing Business” was what this person was referring to. I’ve never heard of this guy Jeff Benedict, and I don’t think I’ve been out of the loop long enough to not recognize a Mormon celebrity. It’s just as likely that your emailer was talking about “Seven Habits of Highly Successful People” by Stephen Covey–this guy was an out-and-out Mo-lebrity.
SatanicPanic
I can’t imagine a book about Mormon business success would include much more than- Join the church, sell to other members and their multiple wives.
ETA, almost forgot- use your 2 dozen kids as labor.
suzanne
@peach flavored shampoo:
I have personally met literally thousands of Mormons, and exactly ONE of them is African-American. He married a white girl.
Mino
@Dork: Hell, his kids probably want a divorce.
maurinsky
Listening to the original cast recording of The Book of Mormon will be much more fun for you.
Mnemosyne
@Nate W.:
I suspect you may be right, especially since Covey had all of his spin-off books for kids, teens, etc.
IIRC, the only religion that requires you to join before letting you read their materials is Scientology. Everyone else — including Mormons — is usually happy to let you read whatever materials they’ve produced even if you’re a non-member.
Another Halocene Human
@LanceThruster: Wow, Father Murphy was a wise man.
Fr Helmick scolded me weekly about not attending Mass every Sunday even though I was at the mercy of my parents and couldn’t have gone if I wanted to.
Plus, his sermons were boring.
SatanicPanic
@Angela: Just to mess with people, Obama should remark if he had a son it might look like this guy too.
Bobby Thomson
@flukebucket: The Scientologist version.
ETA: NSFW
rikyrah
they are a money grubbing cult that gives less than ONE PERCENT of its take to CHARITY.
LESS THAN ONE PERCENT.
BGinCHI
Mormonism is a Ponzi Scheme.
Discuss.
catclub
@Brachiator: I think Dean Baker
is calling the Canadian housing market a bubble. The graphs are not quite as bubblicious as those for the US market, circa 2005-6, but it appears inflated.
suzanne
@Mnemosyne:
They will not let you in the Temple or know about the contents of the Temple rituals if you are not a member. Even if you are a member, much is kept secret—I actually informed some of my LDS friends about the Second Endowment before they ever heard about it from the Church itself. And the financial records aren’t available to anyone except a very, very few.
Culture of Truth
Did you know the Olympics games have already begun?
Also this:
London (AP) — Britain’s Ministry of Defense says it scrambled a Typhoon fighter jet after an airplane entered restricted airspace in effect for the London Olympics.
Ruckus
@Angela:
Kind of makes a mockery of the WSJ asshole.
Another Halocene Human
@jibeaux: Some people are fucking cowards. That’s why I never believe people when they say what they would do in an emergency.
I work with people who claim they would just run away if something happened (fire, gunshots) but I’ve seen too many counter examples to believe that either… Some of my colleagues in this profession have run back inside the smoke to save a person in a wheelchair, or stood at their post and given up their lives to save others.
However, I’m always especially suspicious of those who brag about what heroic actions they would undertake if they were threatened. Bull. Shit.
It’s funny how the guys who actually DID serve never say much of anything in those conversations.
Culture of Truth
Gawker had a link to a story about a guy in the Aurora shooting who left his fiancée and kids in the theater while he ran like hell
“I was going to the car to get my gun! Really!”
LanceThruster
@trollhattan: Plus, their Prop 8 contributions were undeclared and therefore illegal.
Some pinnacles of virtue, eh wot?
Mnemosyne
@maurinsky:
I’m getting an ad for it at the top of the page! I’ve heard the whole soundtrack (G loves quirky musicals — he also liked “Avenue Q”) but sadly the tickets for the touring company here in Los Angeles are WAY out of our price range. Like $200 each for nosebleed seats.
The Moar You Know
@suzanne: I don’t know thousands, but my Mormon ex-girlfriend taught me quite a bit about them (she went back to the church after we were done, an involved process for her to be sure). I agree with your observations. I’d add that their sense of community is something that anyone would envy, although it manifests itself oddly.
By way of example: You’re the man of the house who loses his job. The church steps in immediately. Your wife gets fed, your kids get fed, they get medical care if needed, etc. Total safety net.
Except for you. You’re the man, and you are told point blank to step up, make it happen, and take your family back. You get no food. What you do get is an instant network of people who can and will hire you, and the odds of you staying unemployed for long is pretty much zero.
Just an example. There are many others. They don’t all march in lockstep, but they all march with a united purpose.
I like them, but then again I’ve never lived in a Mormon-majority community. I understand gentiles in those places get treated with a lot less friendliness than they would where I live.
Biff Longbotham
Hi, Libby. Two observations for you.
A) Mormons, in my (perhaps more than the average guy’s (but more on that at observation #2)) experience, are the nicest people you could ever hope to meet individually and amongst the creepiest to meet collectively. The inherent Stepford-ness really come across when in their company. Yes, this is bias and stereotype, although based on a fair ammount of personal knowledge and exposure.
B) Although LDSers are a small percentage of the US population as a whole, I found them to be very well represented in military intelligence when I was active duty Army, well above their national percentage. Returned missionaries have language skills that the military can use, as well as (often) a hefty debt from their two years of non-gainful employment that a stint in the military can help erase. ‘Clean’ living means fewer problems for them to get security clearances.
Rmoney had five strapping boys, and yet none served a day in the military. Hmmm. So much for any sense of civic duty. What does that flag lapel pin of his really mean to him?
Steve
The Detroit News seems like an unlikely venue to blog from a liberal perspective. My law school roommate made me cancel our subscription when they opined that anyone who believed Anita Hill was a complete idiot – and that’s pretty much been the tone of their opinion page for lo these many decades. It was a shame about the subscription, too, because they had a much better sports section.
Brachiator
@BGinCHI:
MormonismReligion is a Ponzi SchemeFTFY
@rikyrah:
Not sure why you want to single out the Mormon religion either for it being a cult or how it dishes out the money it rakes in.
Cult plus Time equals a “legitimate” religion.
And if I ain’t a Mormon and am not giving to the organization, how is it my business how they dole old their loot?
Nate W.
@Mnemosyne:
As far as Mormonism is concerned, the only thing not available to the public is the temple ceremony (which is easily available online, both the current version and the pre-1994 gory version).
That is, unless you count the Church’s financial statements… :P
Mnemosyne
@suzanne:
I mean “materials” like books, films, etc. No one keeps the Book of Mormon under lock and key like they do the Scientology stuff, and I doubt that a book encouraging kids to bring their Mormon values into business situations is going to be kept from outsiders. The ceremonial stuff they swiped from the Masons is all sworn to secrecy, though.
But I read Deborah Laake’s Secret Ceremonies, so I know all of the inside stuff now. ;-)
Culture of Truth
I don’t trust reporting on such events. Guy protecting girlfriends, etc. Too much temptation by our media to go for the good story.
Ruckus
@suzanne:
They want to trust that you will not bolt once they trust you with their “secrets”. Or fall down laughing.
ETA In other words how gullible are you and how well can you hold a straight face?
rlrr
@Mnemosyne:
Any room in a Marriott hotel will have a copy of the Book of Mormon next to a Gideon Bible…
trollhattan
@LanceThruster:
Living among heathen causes interesting behaviors among the believers.
Q: When you go fishing with a Mormon, how do you keep him from drinking all your beer?
A: Bring a second Mormon.
Thanks…here all week…veal…waitress.
Mnemosyne
@Brachiator:
Their “normal” charity giving isn’t really anyone’s business, but IMO it sure as hell is everyone’s business when their “charity giving” is going to influence elections. There shouldn’t be a religious exemption for political donations.
LanceThruster
I’ve got a question for those more familiar LDS particulars.
I’ve heard they are preferred as Secret Service agents protecting the president because of their unwavering obedience to authority.
Any basis in fact?
LanceThruster
@trollhattan:
xD
Mnemosyne
@rlrr:
We’re staying in a Courtyard next month, so I’ll have to check the drawer. G has a collection of Gideon Bibles he’s taken from hotel rooms but I’m not sure we have a Book of Mormon yet.
Culture of Truth
Where there’s a war to protect angl0-saxons, Mitt’s sons will be ready.
pragmatism
@Mnemosyne: england is upping the ante on all y’allz with nightstand books.
http://gawker.com/5928944/in-lieu-of-bibles-hotel-stocks-nightstands-with-fifty-shades-of-grey
those brits dodged a bullet: “Denby told NBC News he considered other books a bible substitutes — including Ayn Rand’s Atlas Shrugged — before settling on E. L. James’ Twilight-fanfic-turned-bestseller.”
suzanne
@Brachiator:
Based on my personal experience, I consider the LDS Church as an organization to be disproportionately harmful to the lives of its members and the communities within which it exists. The LDS Church is certainly not the only religious organization that I think is full of hypocrisy and rot, but discussing them here isn’t “singling them out”, it’s merely noting the distinct flavor of the shit sandwich they’re serving.
Maude
@Libby Spencer:
I just be you’ve had enough of us. It’s okay, you have a lot of company.
trollhattan
@LanceThruster:
Have a friend who’s an agent and I’ve never heard anything from him that would cause me to believe it’s the case. Mind, that’s just my opinion based on what he’s told me about their screening and training.
Maude
@Libby Spencer:
I just bet you’ve had enough of us. It’s okay, you have a lot of company.
Edit, oh oops. Tried to stop the page from loading when I saw the boo boo.
Culture of Truth
@LanceThruster: That’s true. That’s why Michelle Bachmann got all muslim agents. But don’t tell her.
Nate W.
@suzanne:
Once upon a time, the Church’s financial records were published, but they fell into a great deal of debt in the 1950s and didn’t want that known, so they stopped. They soon found out that their membership was happy just to hear the annual announcement that the auditors approved the books and so never started releasing their financials again.
dead existentialist
@Nicole: See Angela @ 30 below. And the mother and her savior were on ABC. Don’t think that engagement is gonna work out. Ouch.
trollhattan
@Mnemosyne:
Depending on thickness, could be handy for leveling an antique table.
Old Dan and Little Ann
I got a robocall from Callista Gingrich today pimping some video her and Newt made about God and America. To learn more about the video I needed to press 1. To stop getting the phone call I had to hang up and call back another number. If only it was reversed. Fucking assholes.
Mnemosyne
@trollhattan:
More like a handy reference while you read Under the Banner of Heaven.
Ripley
You know who else had a book about ‘doing business’?
suzanne
@Ruckus:
It’s also a control technique similar to what the Scientologists use. Give you secrets little by little, as you’re deemed “worthy”, and swear you to secrecy to create a feeling of superiority. It’s a pretty powerful way of creating mental allegiance.
LanceThruster
@Another Halocene Human: At Confession (an RCC Sacrament for those unfamiliar), we hated getting Father O’Donahue. He would badger us endlessly about what our problem was getting to mass (could never tell him the truth…like to sleep in, cartoon shows, outdoors having fun, etc.), whereas Fr. Murphy would pretty much be, “Try to do better…say 10 “Our Fathers” and 10 “Hail Marys”.
I became the master of the speed pennance (like the FedEx fast talker guy).
(For the sake of complete honesty and accuracy, I may have gotten the actual names of the priests wrong, but it was two Irish priests where one was truly beloved [he looked like Spencer Tracy], and one was feared/reviled [he looked like Justice Anton Scalia]).
rlrr
@Old Dan and Little Ann:
Who better to tell us about God and America than a disgraced former Speaker of the House who is also an adulterer.
Mnemosyne
@dead existentialist:
The “baby on the floor” thing sounds like they had the baby in a carrier, which is pretty common if you’re going to be toting a young baby around.
But, yeah, I have a feeling that the ring and the letters are going to be returned real soon unless he’s really convincing when he says, “Remember I said I was going to get help and you should stay put with the kids until I got back? Remember that? Honey?”
LanceThruster
@suzanne:
Kudos.
Beautifully expressed.
mapaghimagsik
We were in a cave, my SO and I. My SO had the lone flashlight when we saw some flitting. It took us a few moments to realize they were bats.
I think I managed to utter “Whoops, bats. They might have rab-” when I found myself completely in the dark. My SO was long gone, and I had to use the flash on my camera to find my way out. Only when I got out did they realize they had the flashlight and had left me with some bats in complete darkness.
I love them to pieces and wouldn’t want it any other way.
Bill
Unfortunately, two of those profiled in “The Mormon Way of Doing Business”, Kevin Rollins and Gary Crittenden, have since been fined by the SEC.
Mnemosyne
@suzanne:
IIRC, it’s not that uncommon for people who get up to the Xenu level of Scientology to crack and have a nervous breakdown when they realize that this is what they spent all of their time and money to learn, this is what they alienated themselves from their friends and family for.
Then they either leave or they double down on believing because they’ve already gone too far. Apparently poor Tom Cruise is still having trouble finding a woman who will double down with him once they get to the whole “flying Thetans in B-52s to volcanoes” part of the story.
Cacti
Libby,
As a 25+ year former Mormon, I can tell you that the LDS church is extremely PR-conscious, and ridiculously sensitive to negative publicity.
If you hear a lot of similar responses from Mo’s, the reason is the church practices centralized, top down, correlation in all of their instructional materials.
Free thought and straying from the reservation is not smiled upon. A Mormon publication once wrote…
“When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan – It is God’s plan. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give direction, it should mark the end of controversy. God works in no other way.”
Yet they wonder why some think of them as a cult.
Mnemosyne
@LanceThruster:
We had a great guy at our church called Father Job. His main problem with us was that he had come from an inner-city Chicago church and now he was stuck with a bunch of whiny suburbanites.
IIRC, he eventually managed to get re-assigned back to his original church, or at least back to a place where people had real problems for him to help with, like dire poverty or gangs.
Also, too, I remember that, as a rich parish, we had an “adopted” parish in the city that we would do food and clothing drives for a couple of times a year — we needed to give to them because they had so little and we had so much. I do miss the days when the Catholic Church gave a shit about issues other than abortion and gay marriage.
trollhattan
@LanceThruster:
Your story reminds me of a favorite George Carlin bit, about picking the right priest for confession. “You could see the line move, that’s how fast he was working.”
SatanicPanic
@Mnemosyne: I say she marries him anyway. And for the next 50 years say, “Are you gonna run away like a chicken?” everytime there’s a chore to do.
suzanne
@Mnemosyne: I’ve heard that, too. I’ve also heard accounts of that happening in Mormonism after the Second Endowment. They spend their whole lives suffering, abstaining from every pleasure, all for….not a whole hell of a lot.
Poor, poor Tom Cruise. My heart bleeds for him. LMAO.
flukebucket
@Bobby Thomson: Damn!
Libby Spencer
@Steve: It’s an odd fit to be sure. I’m pretty much the token liberal over there at this point. Over the years they brought in others but none of them lasted for very long. Most of them quit to get involved in political campaigns.
dead existentialist
@mapaghimagsik: “They”? Are you a Mormon?
rikyrah
@Biff Longbotham:
Not just his sons.
Willard pimped the Mormon church to draft dodge during Vietnam….and that was AFTER he had the nerve to protest IN FAVOR OF THE WAR.
George Romney didn’t serve in WWII – how exactly did an able bodied man get out of serving in WWII?
His granddaddy was hiding out in Mexico.
Libby Spencer
@Maude: Not at all. Love this place. I’ve been lurking here forever. Cole was still a hardcore Republican when I started. I check in here several times a day but don’t often comment because — I have 3 blogs and I’m now also addicted to social media. I hate to just post a comment and run, so often just read the threads and say nothing.
Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God
@BGinCHI:
I believe that “multi-level marketing” is the preferred term in polite circles.
dead existentialist
@SatanicPanic: Ha ha! I really did do that lol thing.
Ruckus
@suzanne:
I have a family member who has been in the cocoon of scientology for decades. We tried for years to talk some sense into this person but of course that only reenforced the dementia. So now we just live with as little contact as possible. It’s better for all of us.
MikeJ
@Mnemosyne:
To be fair, they say the best way to turn a Christian into an atheist is to send him to a seminary.
dead existentialist
@SatanicPanic: Ha ha! I really did do that lol thing.
MikeJ
@Mnemosyne:
To be fair, they say the best way to turn a Christian into an atheist is to send him to a seminary.
Cassidy
@Nicole: I won’t lie, as a father it is very hard to not judge this guy. I can understand the self preservation, but I would also like to think that the male instinct to protect your children is universal. I was raised that way (A man takes care of his family).
That being said, two things make me a little more sympathetic.
1) When I was unemployed, I could not effectively take care of my family. That was humbling. As the man, I had to ask for and rely on the charity of others. even now, my wife has to have job. We don’t have the option of her being able to stay home with the kids. It really makes you look at the paradigm of manhood and family.
2) The first major IED I worked, I closed my eyes and sprinted towards the casualties without hesitation. That was the longest 100 meters of my life and I kept repeating to myself that I hadn’t heard a secondary explosion. The insurgents at the time were detonating secondary explosions to hit first responders, Medics like me. I also kept thinking that my wife was going to be so mad at me. I dont use this story to illustrate bravery of any kind. I use it to illustrate how many differnt things go through a persons head during a crisis and that your brain knows when you are doing something that is inherently dangerous. That is very hard wiring to overcome.
Like I said, it really is hard not to judge. I just hope he finds peace. One of the most life altering, devastating things that can happen to a male is to be tested and found wanting. I’ve seen more than one good Soldier lose to it.
Ruckus
@suzanne:
I have a family member who has been in the cocoon of scientology for decades. We tried for years to talk some sense into this person but of course that only reenforced the dementia. So now we just live with as little contact as possible. It’s better for all of us.
Cassidy
@Nicole: I won’t lie, as a father it is very hard to not judge this guy. I can understand the self preservation, but I would also like to think that the male instinct to protect your children is universal. I was raised that way (A man takes care of his family).
That being said, two things make me a little more sympathetic.
1) When I was unemployed, I could not effectively take care of my family. That was humbling. As the man, I had to ask for and rely on the charity of others. even now, my wife has to have job. We don’t have the option of her being able to stay home with the kids. It really makes you look at the paradigm of manhood and family.
2) The first major IED I worked, I closed my eyes and sprinted towards the casualties without hesitation. That was the longest 100 meters of my life and I kept repeating to myself that I hadn’t heard a secondary explosion. The insurgents at the time were detonating secondary explosions to hit first responders, Medics like me. I also kept thinking that my wife was going to be so mad at me. I dont use this story to illustrate bravery of any kind. I use it to illustrate how many differnt things go through a persons head during a crisis and that your brain knows when you are doing something that is inherently dangerous. That is very hard wiring to overcome.
Like I said, it really is hard not to judge. I just hope he finds peace. One of the most life altering, devastating things that can happen to a male is to be tested and found wanting. I’ve seen more than one good Soldier lose to it.
LanceThruster
@trollhattan: That’s very funny. I never heard it from Carlin but I do remember that’s pretty much the way it worked in real life.
Cassidy
@Nicole: I won’t lie, as a father it is very hard to not judge this guy. I can understand the self preservation, but I would also like to think that the male instinct to protect your children is universal. I was raised that way (A man takes care of his family).
That being said, two things make me a little more sympathetic.
1) When I was unemployed, I could not effectively take care of my family. That was humbling. As the man, I had to ask for and rely on the charity of others. even now, my wife has to have job. We don’t have the option of her being able to stay home with the kids. It really makes you look at the paradigm of manhood and family.
2) The first major IED I worked, I closed my eyes and sprinted towards the casualties without hesitation. That was the longest 100 meters of my life and I kept repeating to myself that I hadn’t heard a secondary explosion. The insurgents at the time were detonating secondary explosions to hit first responders, Medics like me. I also kept thinking that my wife was going to be so mad at me. I dont use this story to illustrate bravery of any kind. I use it to illustrate how many differnt things go through a persons head during a crisis and that your brain knows when you are doing something that is inherently dangerous. That is very hard wiring to overcome.
Like I said, it really is hard not to judge. I just hope he finds peace. One of the most life altering, devastating things that can happen to a male is to be tested and found wanting. I’ve seen more than one good Soldier lose to it.
Violet
@rlrr:
Saw a snippet on the local news that some hotel in London is replacing Bibles in the nightstand with copies of “Shades of Grey”.
Cassidy
@Nicole: I won’t lie, as a father it is very hard to not judge this guy. I can understand the self preservation, but I would also like to think that the male instinct to protect your children is universal. I was raised that way (A man takes care of his family).
That being said, two things make me a little more sympathetic.
1) When I was unemployed, I could not effectively take care of my family. That was humbling. As the man, I had to ask for and rely on the charity of others. even now, my wife has to have job. We don’t have the option of her being able to stay home with the kids. It really makes you look at the paradigm of manhood and family.
2) The first major IED I worked, I closed my eyes and sprinted towards the casualties without hesitation. That was the longest 100 meters of my life and I kept repeating to myself that I hadn’t heard a secondary explosion. The insurgents at the time were detonating secondary explosions to hit first responders, Medics like me. I also kept thinking that my wife was going to be so mad at me. I dont use this story to illustrate bravery of any kind. I use it to illustrate how many differnt things go through a persons head during a crisis and that your brain knows when you are doing something that is inherently dangerous. That is very hard wiring to overcome.
Like I said, it really is hard not to judge. I just hope he finds peace. One of the most life altering, devastating things that can happen to a male is to be tested and found wanting. I’ve seen more than one good Soldier lose to it.
Libby Spencer
@Cacti: Wow. Guess most churches teach obedience but that’s an intense statement.
Violet
@rlrr:
Saw a snippet on the local news that some hotel in London is replacing Bibles in the nightstand with copies of “Shades of Grey”.
Cassidy
@Nicole: I won’t lie, as a father it is very hard to not judge this guy. I can understand the self preservation, but I would also like to think that the male instinct to protect your children is universal. I was raised that way (A man takes care of his family).
That being said, two things make me a little more sympathetic.
1) When I was unemployed, I could not effectively take care of my family. That was humbling. As the man, I had to ask for and rely on the charity of others. even now, my wife has to have job. We don’t have the option of her being able to stay home with the kids. It really makes you look at the paradigm of manhood and family.
2) The first major IED I worked, I closed my eyes and sprinted towards the casualties without hesitation. That was the longest 100 meters of my life and I kept repeating to myself that I hadn’t heard a secondary explosion. The insurgents at the time were detonating secondary explosions to hit first responders, Medics like me. I also kept thinking that my wife was going to be so mad at me. I dont use this story to illustrate bravery of any kind. I use it to illustrate how many differnt things go through a persons head during a crisis and that your brain knows when you are doing something that is inherently dangerous. That is very hard wiring to overcome.
Like I said, it really is hard not to judge. I just hope he finds peace. One of the most life altering, devastating things that can happen to a male is to be tested and found wanting. I’ve seen more than one good Soldier lose to it.
Cassidy
@Nicole: I won’t lie, as a father it is very hard to not judge this guy. I can understand the self preservation, but I would also like to think that the male instinct to protect your children is universal. I was raised that way (A man takes care of his family).
That being said, two things make me a little more sympathetic.
1) When I was unemployed, I could not effectively take care of my family. That was humbling. As the man, I had to ask for and rely on the charity of others. even now, my wife has to have job. We don’t have the option of her being able to stay home with the kids. It really makes you look at the paradigm of manhood and family.
2) The first major IED I worked, I closed my eyes and sprinted towards the casualties without hesitation. That was the longest 100 meters of my life and I kept repeating to myself that I hadn’t heard a secondary explosion. The insurgents at the time were detonating secondary explosions to hit first responders, Medics like me. I also kept thinking that my wife was going to be so mad at me. I dont use this story to illustrate bravery of any kind. I use it to illustrate how many differnt things go through a persons head during a crisis and that your brain knows when you are doing something that is inherently dangerous. That is very hard wiring to overcome.
Like I said, it really is hard not to judge. I just hope he finds peace. One of the most life altering, devastating things that can happen to a male is to be tested and found wanting. I’ve seen more than one good Soldier lose to it.
Cassidy
@Nicole: I won’t lie, as a father it is very hard to not judge this guy. I can understand the self preservation, but I would also like to think that the male instinct to protect your children is universal. I was raised that way (A man takes care of his family).
That being said, two things make me a little more sympathetic.
1) When I was unemployed, I could not effectively take care of my family. That was humbling. As the man, I had to ask for and rely on the charity of others. even now, my wife has to have job. We don’t have the option of her being able to stay home with the kids. It really makes you look at the paradigm of manhood and family.
2) The first major IED I worked, I closed my eyes and sprinted towards the casualties without hesitation. That was the longest 100 meters of my life and I kept repeating to myself that I hadn’t heard a secondary explosion. The insurgents at the time were detonating secondary explosions to hit first responders, Medics like me. I also kept thinking that my wife was going to be so mad at me. I dont use this story to illustrate bravery of any kind. I use it to illustrate how many differnt things go through a persons head during a crisis and that your brain knows when you are doing something that is inherently dangerous. That is very hard wiring to overcome.
Like I said, it really is hard not to judge. I just hope he finds peace. One of the most life altering, devastating things that can happen to a male is to be tested and found wanting. I’ve seen more than one good Soldier lose to it.
Cassidy
@Nicole: I won’t lie, as a father it is very hard to not judge this guy. I can understand the self preservation, but I would also like to think that the male instinct to protect your children is universal. I was raised that way (A man takes care of his family).
That being said, two things make me a little more sympathetic.
1) When I was unemployed, I could not effectively take care of my family. That was humbling. As the man, I had to ask for and rely on the charity of others. even now, my wife has to have job. We don’t have the option of her being able to stay home with the kids. It really makes you look at the paradigm of manhood and family.
2) The first major IED I worked, I closed my eyes and sprinted towards the casualties without hesitation. That was the longest 100 meters of my life and I kept repeating to myself that I hadn’t heard a secondary explosion. The insurgents at the time were detonating secondary explosions to hit first responders, Medics like me. I also kept thinking that my wife was going to be so mad at me. I dont use this story to illustrate bravery of any kind. I use it to illustrate how many differnt things go through a persons head during a crisis and that your brain knows when you are doing something that is inherently dangerous. That is very hard wiring to overcome.
Like I said, it really is hard not to judge. I just hope he finds peace. One of the most life altering, devastating things that can happen to a male is to be tested and found wanting. I’ve seen more than one good Soldier lose to it.
Ruckus
There seems to be a group of posters whom word press just likes to fuck with. It’s an ever growing group, so I have much good company.
Cassidy
@Nicole: I won’t lie, as a father it is very hard to not judge this guy. I can understand the self preservation, but I would also like to think that the male instinct to protect your children is universal. I was raised that way (A man takes care of his family).
That being said, two things make me a little more sympathetic.
1) When I was unemployed, I could not effectively take care of my family. That was humbling. As the man, I had to ask for and rely on the charity of others. even now, my wife has to have job. We don’t have the option of her being able to stay home with the kids. It really makes you look at the paradigm of manhood and family.
2) The first major IED I worked, I closed my eyes and sprinted towards the casualties without hesitation. That was the longest 100 meters of my life and I kept repeating to myself that I hadn’t heard a secondary explosion. The insurgents at the time were detonating secondary explosions to hit first responders, Medics like me. I also kept thinking that my wife was going to be so mad at me. I dont use this story to illustrate bravery of any kind. I use it to illustrate how many differnt things go through a persons head during a crisis and that your brain knows when you are doing something that is inherently dangerous. That is very hard wiring to overcome.
Like I said, it really is hard not to judge. I just hope he finds peace. One of the most life altering, devastating things that can happen to a male is to be tested and found wanting. I’ve seen more than one good Soldier lose to it.
Cassidy
@Nicole: I won’t lie, as a father it is very hard to not judge this guy. I can understand the self preservation, but I would also like to think that the male instinct to protect your children is universal. I was raised that way (A man takes care of his family).
That being said, two things make me a little more sympathetic.
1) When I was unemployed, I could not effectively take care of my family. That was humbling. As the man, I had to ask for and rely on the charity of others. even now, my wife has to have job. We don’t have the option of her being able to stay home with the kids. It really makes you look at the paradigm of manhood and family.
2) The first major IED I worked, I closed my eyes and sprinted towards the casualties without hesitation. That was the longest 100 meters of my life and I kept repeating to myself that I hadn’t heard a secondary explosion. The insurgents at the time were detonating secondary explosions to hit first responders, Medics like me. I also kept thinking that my wife was going to be so mad at me. I dont use this story to illustrate bravery of any kind. I use it to illustrate how many differnt things go through a persons head during a crisis and that your brain knows when you are doing something that is inherently dangerous. That is very hard wiring to overcome.
Like I said, it really is hard not to judge. I just hope he finds peace. One of the most life altering, devastating things that can happen to a male is to be tested and found wanting. I’ve seen more than one good Soldier lose to it.
Cassidy
@Nicole: I won’t lie, as a father it is very hard to not judge this guy. I can understand the self preservation, but I would also like to think that the male instinct to protect your children is universal. I was raised that way (A man takes care of his family).
That being said, two things make me a little more sympathetic.
1) When I was unemployed, I could not effectively take care of my family. That was humbling. As the man, I had to ask for and rely on the charity of others. even now, my wife has to have job. We don’t have the option of her being able to stay home with the kids. It really makes you look at the paradigm of manhood and family.
2) The first major IED I worked, I closed my eyes and sprinted towards the casualties without hesitation. That was the longest 100 meters of my life and I kept repeating to myself that I hadn’t heard a secondary explosion. The insurgents at the time were detonating secondary explosions to hit first responders, Medics like me. I also kept thinking that my wife was going to be so mad at me. I dont use this story to illustrate bravery of any kind. I use it to illustrate how many differnt things go through a persons head during a crisis and that your brain knows when you are doing something that is inherently dangerous. That is very hard wiring to overcome.
Like I said, it really is hard not to judge. I just hope he finds peace. One of the most life altering, devastating things that can happen to a male is to be tested and found wanting. I’ve seen more than one good Soldier lose to it.
Cassidy
@Nicole: I won’t lie, as a father it is very hard to not judge this guy. I can understand the self preservation, but I would also like to think that the male instinct to protect your children is universal. I was raised that way (A man takes care of his family).
That being said, two things make me a little more sympathetic.
1) When I was unemployed, I could not effectively take care of my family. That was humbling. As the man, I had to ask for and rely on the charity of others. even now, my wife has to have job. We don’t have the option of her being able to stay home with the kids. It really makes you look at the paradigm of manhood and family.
2) The first major IED I worked, I closed my eyes and sprinted towards the casualties without hesitation. That was the longest 100 meters of my life and I kept repeating to myself that I hadn’t heard a secondary explosion. The insurgents at the time were detonating secondary explosions to hit first responders, Medics like me. I also kept thinking that my wife was going to be so mad at me. I dont use this story to illustrate bravery of any kind. I use it to illustrate how many differnt things go through a persons head during a crisis and that your brain knows when you are doing something that is inherently dangerous. That is very hard wiring to overcome.
Like I said, it really is hard not to judge. I just hope he finds peace. One of the most life altering, devastating things that can happen to a male is to be tested and found wanting. I’ve seen more than one good Soldier lose to it.
Cassidy
@Nicole: I won’t lie, as a father it is very hard to not judge this guy. I can understand the self preservation, but I would also like to think that the male instinct to protect your children is universal. I was raised that way (A man takes care of his family).
That being said, two things make me a little more sympathetic.
1) When I was unemployed, I could not effectively take care of my family. That was humbling. As the man, I had to ask for and rely on the charity of others. even now, my wife has to have job. We don’t have the option of her being able to stay home with the kids. It really makes you look at the paradigm of manhood and family.
2) The first major IED I worked, I closed my eyes and sprinted towards the casualties without hesitation. That was the longest 100 meters of my life and I kept repeating to myself that I hadn’t heard a secondary explosion. The insurgents at the time were detonating secondary explosions to hit first responders, Medics like me. I also kept thinking that my wife was going to be so mad at me. I dont use this story to illustrate bravery of any kind. I use it to illustrate how many differnt things go through a persons head during a crisis and that your brain knows when you are doing something that is inherently dangerous. That is very hard wiring to overcome.
Like I said, it really is hard not to judge. I just hope he finds peace. One of the most life altering, devastating things that can happen to a male is to be tested and found wanting. I’ve seen more than one good Soldier lose to it.
Triassic Sands
@Mnemosyne:
I was going to suggest Libby read Under the Banner of Heaven. It’s worth reading.
Cassidy
@Nicole: I won’t lie, as a father it is very hard to not judge this guy. I can understand the self preservation, but I would also like to think that the male instinct to protect your children is universal. I was raised that way (A man takes care of his family).
That being said, two things make me a little more sympathetic.
1) When I was unemployed, I could not effectively take care of my family. That was humbling. As the man, I had to ask for and rely on the charity of others. even now, my wife has to have job. We don’t have the option of her being able to stay home with the kids. It really makes you look at the paradigm of manhood and family.
2) The first major IED I worked, I closed my eyes and sprinted towards the casualties without hesitation. That was the longest 100 meters of my life and I kept repeating to myself that I hadn’t heard a secondary explosion. The insurgents at the time were detonating secondary explosions to hit first responders, Medics like me. I also kept thinking that my wife was going to be so mad at me. I dont use this story to illustrate bravery of any kind. I use it to illustrate how many differnt things go through a persons head during a crisis and that your brain knows when you are doing something that is inherently dangerous. That is very hard wiring to overcome.
Like I said, it really is hard not to judge. I just hope he finds peace. One of the most life altering, devastating things that can happen to a male is to be tested and found wanting. I’ve seen more than one good Soldier lose to it.
Cassidy
@Nicole: I won’t lie, as a father it is very hard to not judge this guy. I can understand the self preservation, but I would also like to think that the male instinct to protect your children is universal. I was raised that way (A man takes care of his family).
That being said, two things make me a little more sympathetic.
1) When I was unemployed, I could not effectively take care of my family. That was humbling. As the man, I had to ask for and rely on the charity of others. even now, my wife has to have job. We don’t have the option of her being able to stay home with the kids. It really makes you look at the paradigm of manhood and family.
2) The first major IED I worked, I closed my eyes and sprinted towards the casualties without hesitation. That was the longest 100 meters of my life and I kept repeating to myself that I hadn’t heard a secondary explosion. The insurgents at the time were detonating secondary explosions to hit first responders, Medics like me. I also kept thinking that my wife was going to be so mad at me. I dont use this story to illustrate bravery of any kind. I use it to illustrate how many differnt things go through a persons head during a crisis and that your brain knows when you are doing something that is inherently dangerous. That is very hard wiring to overcome.
Like I said, it really is hard not to judge. I just hope he finds peace. One of the most life altering, devastating things that can happen to a male is to be tested and found wanting. I’ve seen more than one good Soldier lose to it.
Cassidy
FYWP
YoohooCthulhu
@suzanne:
I’d agree with this. When people see “mormons”, they generally see the successful ones. Almost every family has several black sheep who are more or less cast out and receive very little support.
Cassidy
FYWP
Steve
@rikyrah: George Romney was 34 when the US entered WWII. He was draft-eligible, but it’s certainly not the case that all men in their mid-30s ended up being drafted, and I’ve never heard it alleged that he dodged the draft. He spent those years running an organization that coordinated the auto companies’ rather substantial contributions to the war effort.
Cassidy
FYWP
Triassic Sands
If any members of traditional Christian churches want to criticize Mormonism, they should realize that the only reason Mormonism may seem sillier is that the traditional Cristian fairy tales are a lot older (Immaculate Conception, Virgin Birth, Resurrection, etc.)
Ruckus
@Triassic Sands:
But not actually less silly.
suzanne
@Triassic Sands: Belief is not the point. Once one decides to believe in something for which there is no evidence, there’s no criticism to level. Behavior, however, is completely open to critique. If the aforementioned behavior results in socially responsible, ethical behavior, then rock out with your cock out. But if it results in tribalism, abuse, suffering, robbery….I will never shut up about it.
Steeplejack
@Ruckus:
I feel your pain. It looks like Cassidy is going to retire the trophy, though.
Steeplejack
@Cassidy:
I think that’s a Balloon Juice record. My condolences.
Good post, though.
Cassidy
@Steeplejack: WTF? I didn’t even hit submit that many times?
Calouste
@Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God:
It’s more MLM than Ponzi. In a Ponzi scheme, the people at the bottom still get the inflated returns until the money runs out. I don’t think you get much of an immediate RoI if you are a newly minted Mormon.
Valdivia
@Cassidy:
that must be a record but as Steeple said, excellent illuminating comment.
Steeplejack
@Cassidy:
Like Ruckus said, “There seems to be a group of posters whom WordPress just likes to fuck with.”
FYWP.
ETA: I did think the repetition of your “FYWP” was the frosting on the cake. Hee-hee.
Brachiator
@Mnemosyne:
Sure. But here the standard is or should be the same for any religious organization, or church hiding behind it’s tax exempt status to do political shit.
Wow. The blog seems to be acting up. Posts appearing multiple times. Let’s see what happens when I try to submit this.
Cassidy
@Steeplejack: Glad I could provide some entertainment.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@suzanne: In other words,you agree with this. As do I.
JPL
@Steeplejack: I was going to reply to Nicole and mention that I had a little chat with my son about that incident but Cassidy set me straight about judging.
Barry
@jibeaux: “I don’t judge him either, but I do wonder a bit how you lose a 4 month old who was in your arms when you were in the theater. You would think instinct and adrenaline would prevent you from putting the baby down.”
Be in a violently thrashing crowd in the dark, with tear gas, being shot at, with massive obstacles in your way (seats). I can see ducking down, putting the infant down on the ground/in a set, and then being physically forced away.
suzanne
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): That is TREMENDOUS.
MoonBatman
The Police need more funding.
We got to outlaw suing the Police for Misconduct.
John Burge’s fondness for torture has cost Chicago taxpayers $33 million so far, with $7 million more on the way.
Steeplejack
@Cassidy:
Fifteen duplicates! Man, you are the Michael Phelps of FYWP. I am in awe. Srsly. (As the yoots would say.)
Ruckus
@Steeplejack:
ETA: I did think the repetition of your “FYWP” was the frosting on the cake. Hee-hee.
Yea I liked that part as well.
Cassidy. Welcome to the club. We got jackets. No acronyms for us though. $300 embroidered lettermens jacket with “Fuck You Word Press” on the back. I expect to make millions.
NancyDarling
@Cassidy: It bore repeating.
Ruckus
@NancyDarling:
Very nice.
HyperIon
Who is going to fix the fucked up comments?
Cole? Somebody?
trollhattan
@Steeplejack:
They would say “epic.” And they’d be right!
Pangloss
I am intrigued by your ideas, and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
gelfling545
@rikyrah: I believe George Romney was in the auto industry which was supplying military equipment and therefore classified as an “essential occupation” and exempt from service.
Roy G.
@Cassidy: Are you using an iPad or other mobile device to post? This happened to me when I used mine, and iirc is a problem with not syncing the keyboard ‘enter’ button with submit, so the poster thinks it didn’t go through and keeps hitting submit.
wrb
@Cassidy:
I don’t believe you.
Cassidy
@Roy G.: No, I was at work and the network was being slow and it would time out. So, I would hit back and try again. I did that about 5 times. Then I hit refresh and it came up with the duplicate comment page. At that point, I have no idea where 15 separate posts came from.
the dude
@The Moar You Know: I like them, but then again I’ve never lived in a Mormon-majority community. I understand gentiles in those places get treated with a lot less friendliness than they would where I live.
Mate, I used to live in the middle of Utah County (over 90% LDS) and never pretended to be anything other than a dirty atheist furriner and I got no grief from anyone.
Although I did have some other dirty furriner atheist friends who got shunned by their devout neighbours for the sin of having coffee in the house. Too much temptation, apparently.
Back on topic, there is an LDS Business College just west of Temple Square in downtown SLC. Does not look too big but maybe that’s where the OP’s interlocutor spent some time?
Terry
@jheartney: C’mon, their charlatan founders came along at least 100 years apart.
WaterGirl
Returned from some meetings and finished reading the thread. I must say this was a fine, fine thread with excellent comments.
baguioboy
You do know that the Mormons were the subject of an “extermination order” at one point, right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_Executive_Order_44
I think the jumpiness can be forgiven a little.
Odie Hugh Manatee
Having lived in Oregon, Washington and Idaho most of my life, I have met tons of Mormons. They’re not that much different than Christians in that they say that they are Mormon yet they have no problem violating aspects of their religion when they need to. We refer to Mormons that are like that as Jack Mormons.
Except on their religious days, that’s when they have to pretend to the rest of their crowd that they follow their religion religiously. I repair computers for a living and Mormons/Christians both love their pron. My secular customers seem to have far less pron on their systems, which is hilarious to me. You wouldn’t believe the amount of pron the religious guys have on their computers. I’ve been asked, discreetly of course, how they can hide any traces of pron on their computers so their spouses won’t discover what they are up to.
My being a long-haired heathen must make them think that I’m safe to talk to. Some have even asked me for the best way to hide from their spouses that they have signed up for pay pron sites. You should see their eyes light up when I tell them that if they are paying for pron on the internet then they aren’t looking in the right places…lol!
Walker
My childhood best friend’s father worked at Brigham Young in the 70s. One of only two Hindus in the area. He tells me the missionaries would show up ever other week (because they were bothering the other Hindu family on off weeks). With slide projectors.
But the kicker was that, even as a Hindu, BYU took a 10% tithe out of his salary to the church. Can’t do that anymore though; federal smackdown.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@gelfling545: Bingo. Before we entered the war, George Romney was involved in an air defense organization that later played a major role in ramping up wartime production by the automotive industry. He ended up one of the key men in coordinating between more than 500 different companies to keep that production going.
Lots of men got critical civilian work deferments in WW2. My father did, and then volunteered just ahead of losing his deferment when they started bringing the women into the factories. For the first year of the US involvement in the war, he built airplanes.
Codpiecewatch
I live in Utah and Mormons are extremely discriminatory. And, as far as their business habits go, they are extremely prone to pulling off fraud and scams. A few years ago there was a fire and I heard a church leader on the radio pleading with his flock to refrain from the urge to file false claims. Utah is #1 in the country for porn consumption and way up there when it comes to anti-depressant use. Non-Mormon children are not invited to birthday parties, gays are discriminated against, and whatever they say, it IS a cult. A huge, hateful cult.
LanceThruster
@Codpiecewatch: Thanks for the personal observations. While it is true that individuals can be as nice as you please, the group-think from any authoritarian body sure seems to make what would be otherwise reasonably decent people be pretty goddamned dickish.