This is amusing:
But at a June 30 fundraiser in Wheeling, W.Va., Speaker John Boehner offered a surprisingly frank assessment of the dynamic that surprised some in the audience.
Aside from Romney’s “friends, relatives and fellow Mormons,” Boehner said, most people will be motivated to vote for him in opposition to Obama.
The Ohio Republican made the remarks when an unidentified woman asked during a question-and-answer session: “Can you make me love Mitt Romney?”
“No,” Boehner said. “Listen, we’re just politicians. I wasn’t elected to play God. The American people probably aren’t going to fall in love with Mitt Romney. I’ll tell you this: 95 percent of the people that show up to vote in November are going to show up in that voting booth, and they are going to vote for or against Barack Obama.
While it’s funny that every Republican knows what a dog they have in Romney, at the same time, it is very, very depressing, because you know what this means. If they can’t sell their guy, the only thing they can do (beyond the widespread voter suppression they have been working on) is to trash the other guy. So I expect this to be the ugliest election ever.
Hal
I’m surprised you feel this way, simply because from my point of view the Obama trashing has never stopped. I’m almost at a point where I think there really is nothing left but recycling the same old bullshit Repugs have already emphasized since 2007-2008.
cathyx
They love not Obama more than they hate Mitt.
Professor
But Romney has got some love in W.Virginia. It is a given that he will take the state! I’ve put serious money on that.
WereBear
But what else do they have? What is left?
He’s an alien from another country, an alien from another planet, a skeeeeery Black Panther with a secret mission from the Muslin Gawd who is both incredibly incompetent and fiendishly clever.
Like Hal says, the trashing has never stopped. And it’s kinda old and pointless, now.
Chris
A microcosm of how Republican electoral strategies have worked for decades. They can’t sell their platform (the last person who tried was Goldwater, and we know how he ended up). So instead they run on racial and cultural resentments, e.g. “trashing the other guy,” and just have to kind of hope that that’ll give them enough popularity to make it into office and then ram the platform they couldn’t sell through (the asshole in Wisconsin being one of the more blatant examples).
jl
Somebody sure has been trying to make people “fall in hate’ with Obama. Wunner who that could be?
cathyx
So you either vote for a black Muslim or a white Mormon. What’s happened to this Christian country?
David Koch
Can you make me love some soulless game show host who shipped my parents’ job to China, who belongs to a cult that makes a mockery out of Christianity, and who is an abortion profiteer?
cathyx
Someone needs to start the rumor that if Mitt were elected, he would make polygamy legal again. That should keep him out of the White House.
c u n d gulag
Oh, it’ll be the ugliest one ever, for sure!
My over/under for the first politician or pundit to scream, “N*gger! N*gger! N*gger!” is right after their convention, when Mitt doesn’t get much of a bump.
One of the House R’s will probably
winlose.Woody
It’s always ugly, but now a political party is owned by a media outlet; and we’re more wired than ever.
And George Zimmerman is the perfect Hero to represent the modern American Right.
Raven
I wonder if the fund raiser was at Oglebay Park? I spent some wild times there and at the Wheeling Dog Track.
Hunter Gathers
So what The Orange Boner is saying is that they’re going to spend all of their time and money reminding the country that Obama’s black. Has anyone forgotten that fact?
I don’t think that ‘The Sheriff Is Near’ is going to be a winning strategy in the POTUS election of 2012.
Another Halocene Human
@cathyx: Win.
Litlebritdifrnt
@David Koch:
THIS. If someone on our side does not make hay out of the “abortion profiteer” thing then it is political malpractice of the highest order. Also, too, it should be said again and again that Romney will be taking the Oath of Office on the Book of Mormon and NOT on the bible, hammer them with it. We need to take their tactics of hanging Reverend Wright around Obama’s neck and hang his “religion” problem around Romney’s neck.
Another Halocene Human
@David Koch: who belongs to a cult that makes a mockery out of Christianity
You mean like Newt Gingrich, Santorunarola, Alito, and all the other Catholics?
Co-redemptrix and papal infallibility my pasty Irish ass.
gnomedad
Post title FTW. Thanks for the earbug, also, too.
Another Halocene Human
@cathyx: Won’t fly. Anchor baby Mitt’s family had to swear off the celestial lovin’ to come back to the States. They’re mainstream Mormons; they’ve moved on to worshiping Billion$$ and hating on gays. (The LDS profits are involved in massive real estate grifts.)
MonkeyBoy
Romney has so little appeal I almost expect him to pick Sarah Palin (or a clone of her) as his running mate.
Sure many people thought Palin unqualified, incompetent, and surely a joke but she did drum up a base of rabidly enthusiastic supporters.
Risk-adverse Romney is likely to pick an inoffensive non-entity for VP. However if he picks a Palin like VP then his campaign can move into victim-hood mode where those who call the choice a redneck nitwit can be cast as bullies who hate women and America.
SiubhanDuinne
@cathyx:
I think you just did! That’s all it takes.
Valdivia
@cathyx:
I think if we tried to diagram that feeling we would break diagramming!
Narcissus
Yeah I’m not really sure how it could get worse.
I mean what line have they not already crossed twice?
gbear
If Obama wins this fall, it will be the most beautiful election ever.
CW in LA
Hey, I read a rumor that Willard if elected would legalize polygamy. Can someone please confirm? At the very least, the fact that he hasn’t denied it sure is suspicious.
I know a lot of us, not least the president’s campaign, are worried about the Rethugs’ fundraising advantage (= having the billionaires on their side). But here in CA, Meg Whitman’s whole strategy running for governor a couple of years ago was running a tsunami of ads sliming everything in sight. All she accomplished was making everyone hate her fucking guts. Look for the Willard campaign to achieve the same result.
Violet
@Litlebritdifrnt: The taking the oath on the Book of Mormon thing is definitely something that would seem scary to fundies. The Romney campaign could probably squash it pretty quickly, though, by saying he would take the oath on the Bible and then turn it to an advantage by saying, “See! He’s a Christian just like you.” Well, if they were skilled they could. Romney’s crew, I dunno.
cathyx
@Valdivia: Yeah, but it does make sense if you read it slowly.
cathyx
@CW in LA: Ive heard that too somewhere. We should go onto teaparty websites and see if there is any confirmation.
gbear
@CW in LA: It’s true!! I saw it on the internets.
Narcissus
Hey guys I just heard Mitt Romney wants to make polygamy legal because he’s hiding his harem in the Caymans
Valdivia
@cathyx:
I know, it was just too good not to comment on.
GxB
Money can’t buy ’em love, but what it does buy is good enough for their purposes. I’m seriously doubting these people can feel genuine affection for anyone other than themselves. Hell, their kids aren’t much of a priority from the looks of it.
Value of calling the shots from the very top down – priceless, for everything else, there’s rentboys and fleshlights.
A Ghost To Most
It would be irresponsible not to speculate!
Gin & Tonic
Easy to say “ugliest ever” — but I wonder what someone who lived through the elections of, say, 1840 or 1880 would say. They played some pretty hard ball back then.
David Koch
@Another Halocene Human:
Catholics don’t reject the holy trinity, don’t think God lives on Planet Kolob, don’t think Jesus lived in Kansas City, don’t say women can’t get into heaven, don’t reject the immaculate conception, don’t run around baptizing dead Jews (including Anne Frank – 12 times). This is just off the top of my head. There a lot more crap. And that’s not even including the magic underwear, polygamy, and prohibition against liquor, coffee, and sugar.
I oppose all religion, but Mormons are really kooks.
Anne Laurie
Dude, it’s always the ugliest election ever, because the grievances never change and the technology continually improves.
State-of-the-art propaganda — broadsheets and tavern buys — was used to let “everybody know” that John Adams had pimped young American virgins to the Russian czar during his ambassadorial career, while selling America out to France to fund his own elitist anti-Christian depravities. And that Thomas Jefferson was a repeat bankrupt who slept with his dead wife’s Negro half-sister, and sold the resulting offspring for profit. (The American election was too new an invention for the effectiveness of rumors about doddering George Washington having his head turned by that bastard half-breed Hamilton’s professional charms at the behest of New York bankers, but the hardcore anti-federalists are still pimping that angle.) Of course there’s usually a grain of truth, or at least truthiness, at the heart of these slanders — Adams (much as I love the guy) really was an elitist prick who sympathized more with radical French philosophers than the bulk of his proudly unlettered countrymen, and Jefferson really did sleep with Sally Hemmings.
Every president since then has been branded as an undercover non-native (Andrew Johnson was ‘really’ English, Tyler & Coolidge Canadian, Hoover born in China, LBJ in Mexico) and/or non-white (Jackson, Lincoln, Harding) and/or a business failure (Cleveland, Grant, Truman, Bush II) of suspicious religious affiliation (Madison, both ‘Rosenfelts’, JFK). Every one has been a sexual deviate (or at least deviate-curious) desperate to sell out his country to the rising global power of the moment (England, France, Germany, Russia, Japan, China).
But our communications technology & social-engineering skills have improved to the point where, in 2012, we have a magic-underwear Mormon son of a Mexican immigrant who’s spent his career playing elitist bankster games to hide the vast fortune he’s made selling America and his inbred slack-jawed co-religionists out to the UN and the ChiComs, trying to steal the White House (back) from a Kenyan Muslim half-breed who’s never had a “real” non-governmental job in his life, ever since his globe-trotting childhood introduced him to culinary, philosphical, and probably sexual practices that decent Christian Heartlanders(tm) can barely imagine (without help from cable channels & the internet).
By 2016, we’ll probably be able to download a Red or Blue TruGanda Fact-ion-aid(tm) dataset directly into our retinal implants, but the base script won’t change — our opponent is a member of That Tribe We Hate, who eats unclean foodstuffs and sleeps with taboo partners while worshipping graven idols and using more than his share of the common resources. All else is commentary.
Gin & Tonic
@Anne Laurie:
Wow. When I grow up I want to learn how to write like this.
gelfling545
@Violet: Hmm, so if someone were to question whether he would take the oath on the Bible I wonder what the professional christians would think???
Villago Delenda Est
“He’s not the ni*CLANG*”
That’s all they’ve got, and Boner just admitted it.
Triassic Sands
I guess I’m one of Boehner’s 5%, because I’m going to vote against Romney and the GOP much more than I’m going to vote for Obama. That’s less of a slam on the president than it is recognition of just how horrendous Romney and the Republican Party are.
Should Romney be elected, the only question in my mind is will he steal the title of Worst President Ever from George W. Bush? My money would be on Mittens.
Linda Featheringill
Bible versus Book or Mormon:
I would be more confident in his oath if he swore on a book he holds holy.
That copy of the bible that people use for the oath of office is just a book, you know. It isn’t magic. Merely touching it won’t make a person honest and trustworthy.
He may have read the Christian bible, I don’t know. I have read the Book or Mormon and it didn’t change my religious beliefs. But then I also read the Koran [in English] and found it interesting and at times poetic but not life changing.
They are all just books.
Obsessing over them is rather weird, in my opinion. And if you are getting super excited about which book goes where, you’re acting a little weird.
Another Halocene Human
@MonkeyBoy:
where those who call the choice a redneck
nitwit can be cast as bullies who hate women and America*.fix’d
*and let us not forget Mom, apple pie, and the flag
Villago Delenda Est
@Linda Featheringill:
He should take his oath on a stack of benjamins.
His true deity is Mammon.
Linda Featheringill
And while we’re at it, let us remind ourselves about freedom of religion. The Romney’s have a right to believe how they want to believe, without criticism or ridicule from the BJ group.
Another Halocene Human
@Violet: There’s no reason a Mormon wouldn’t swear an oath on a Bible. Do keep in mind that the big money shot in the BoM is when Christ returns to Earth
to attemptto save theNative AmericansLost Tribes of Israel and the sermon he gives? Is just cut & pasted-on-yaye from the Sermon the Mount. What a letdown!Linda Featheringill
@Villago Delenda Est:
Might be.
That is also my opinion of members of Focus on the Family and other groups, by the way. But alas, I’m not their judge.
Another Halocene Human
@GxB: Hell, their kids aren’t much of a priority from the looks of it.
Oh, he took care of his kids all right. They’re set for life and serving their country by working on his perpetual campaigns.
Now, if you mean by teaching them proper values and leading by example then, uh, no.
Violet
@Linda Featheringill: Anyone’s free to believe what they want to believe. That’s freedom of religion. Freedom of speech allows us to ridicule and criticize them for it, if we so choose.
As for Romney swearing in on a book he believes is holy, he should swear on his checkbook.
Another Halocene Human
@Gin & Tonic: Ma, ma, where’s my pa?
Shit, I dunno. Though it doesn’t get much dirtier than Tilden-Hayes… and that wasn’t the campaign that was so dirty.
I recall reading that rumors were circulating about Jefferson and Hemings back in the day, but all but one particular enemy refused to print them. That’s changed post-Drudge.
Elisabeth
@CW in LA:
And Romney’s already got a headstart in the unfavorability department.
Chewbackhair
Projection. It’s what Democrats do best.
Sell us your guy!
Tell us about all the great things Obama has done.
Closing Gitmo? (He didn’t even try!) Stopping Federal raids on Med MJ clinics? (Any day now!) How about not deporting undocumented persons? (Ignore that Obama has deported more in 3 1/2 yrs. than GWB in 8 yrs!) Not even one banker doing a “perpwalk”? (Corzine? Corzine? /Ben Stein voice) Why not talk more about Solyndra, Tesla Motors, A123, Fisker, Abound Solar, etc.? (Sell it as “We only gave a couple billion to our corporate contributors.”- and hope people forget the other $2.5 trillion in wasted stimulus spending.)
Yup. I said 2.5 Trillion.
The “$787 billion stimulus package” was supposedly a “one-time” boost to the Federal budget. But, the Fed “budget”* did not drop by anything close to $787 billion in 2010- it went up. There’s $1.5 trillion already.
Maybe they waited an extra year, and cut back that “stimulus” funding in 2011? (Nope. That’s when Barack started to kill Socialist InSecurity by slashing contributions. And, the “budget”* went up again!)
*The Democrat controlled Senate has not actually passed a budget since the 2009 Fiscal Year.
Linda Featheringill
@Violet: #47
Freedom of speech is actually about the relationship between you and your government and whether the gov has the right to make you shut up. Freedom of speech does not prevent me from criticizing you for what you say.
Another Halocene Human
@David Koch: Have you paid any attention to what has been coming out of the Holy See lately? The late JPII and his buddy Ratzi have been making a mockery of Catholicism, if it wasn’t mockable enough already.
I’m not impressed by Mormon theology–the whole men becoming gods with their own planets in the afterlife, spirit babies, celestial marriage, or the notion that purgatory is a waiting room where perky Mormons attempt to convert you, FOREVER (on second thought, that’s pretty creative–good shot)–but let’s have some perspective here. Catholic theology claims that you LITERALLY eat the flesh of your god in mass. (Btw, when they have interviewed lay Catholics and asked them to explain what Catholics believe about the host, they almost ALWAYS give an answer that is consistent with consubstantiation, ie, an answer that is officially heretical, because nobody but a few frigging loons actually believes in transubstantiation, maybe only a few more people even understand the damn word in the first place…)
Also, too, the Trinity? What the fuck is that shit? I asked so many questions about that in CCD because it made no fucking sense and got told it was a “sacred mystery”. Is that like a “special charism”? because all those boys and girls who got diddled by priests might have something to say about that.
edited to clarify that I am aware that Karol Wjckljwjnvc is dead and resting in a sarcophagus in the basement level of St. Peter’s in Rome
dr. luba
I was talking with my 19 year old niece today, and she mentioned that, on vacation in northern Michigan, they’d attended a 4th of July parade. There was a pro-Obama groups, and an anti-Obama groups marching. She found it odd that latter group wasn’t a pro-Romney group, i.e. that they didn’t stand FR something.
I told her that much of the opposition to Obama, and the movement to get rid of him, springs from having a black man in the White House. Yes, she noted, that sounded right, and besides, there are an awful lot of rednecks up north.
Interestingly, her father is a Palin Republican. Her younger sister told me that he had recently put a picture of Romney on the fridge. She (younger sister) proudly announced that she had sabotaged it.
The children ARE our future.
Violet
@Linda Featheringill: That’s what I said. The government can’t make us shut up about things. When you said this, above:
it sounds like you want whoever is criticizing or ridiculing the Romneys for their religion to stop doing it. You and I both seem to agree that the freedom of speech we enjoy in this country expressly means we don’t have to stop doing it.
Odie Hugh Manatee
It’s a sad state of affairs when a party candidate for the presidency is so bad that the only thing that party can do to gin up enthusiasm is to talk about how much worse the opposition candidate is. Judson Phillips, one of the Head Moolahs for the Teahadists, was on Tweety’s show (Smirk was hosting) and when pushed on his seeming lack of enthusiasm for Rmoney he admitted that he wished the Republicans had a better candidate but that he and others will have to “belly up to the buzz saw” to vote for Rmoney.
Hate has become the electoral strategy on the right.
Another Halocene Human
@Villago Delenda Est: Exactamundo
Another Halocene Human
@Linda Featheringill: That is also my opinion of members of Focus on the Family and other groups, by the way. But alas, I’m not their judge.
But the IRS is, and I wait in joyful hope &cet &so on & so forth.
Linda Featheringill
@Violet:
Ridiculing the Romneys for their religion is not illegal. Ridiculing the Obamas for the color of their skin is not illegal.
But in neither case does “not illegal” mean that it’s “right.”
Another Halocene Human
@Violet: Hah. His checkbook. There is nothing more holy than his sacred ambition. Don’t you know it’s Mitt’s turn?
I guess that’s a little hard to swear on, but he could always swear on his tube of hair cream.
Linda Featheringill
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
Yes, OT, but howya doing Odie?
Cacti
@David Koch:
Let me set you straight on Mormon kookery, you got some of it right, but some of it wrong.
They do reject the Trinity and believe God lives on planet Kolob.
They have their own version of the immaculate conception, wherein God came down and shagged the virgin Mary. That’s one of the more obscure teachings that most Mormons don’t even know about.
They believe the Garden of Eden was in the metropolitan Kansas City area.
They do practice baptism by proxy for dead non-Mormons and have done so for numerous holocaust victims.
They prohibit alcohol and coffee, but definitely not sugar. Mormons tend to go a little overboard on the sweets because it’s one of the few things they’re allowed. “The Church of Jesus Christ of Fatter Day Saints” is an inside joke referring to that phenomenon.
Anne Laurie
@Another Halocene Human:
Disfunctional parenting skills can be as crippling as cystic fibrosis or sickle-cell trait.
Some redneck on a cable channel tied the family dog to the roof of his junker, and when the kids pointed out the dog was shitting itself in terror, pulled over, hosed it down & kept on trucking? At least one expert would be called upon to point out that torturing animals in front of the kids/wife is a red flag for domestic abusers.
Not to mention “ordering” your grown kids & their entire families to show up for annual Right Thought vacations where the adults’ “personal issues” will be discussed & corrected at group sessions, after a strenuous round of physical competitions where only Big Daddy is allowed to win. Kim Jong Willard, or Mitt Koresh?
The way the Five Brothers show up on the talk shows, glassy-eyed & trading talking points in unison, I’m half-afraid one of them going to turn up with a crawlspace full of dead hitchhikers.
Tonal Crow
I concur. Romney is already the lyingest liar I can remember running in any American election.
Violet
@Linda Featheringill: I’m not disagreeing with you about whether or not it’s appropriate, but I don’t think that the Romneys have a *right* to be free of criticism or ridicule of their beliefs. The right is inherent is being able to believe what you want in this country. The right does not extend to free of criticism of that belief.
rikyrah
As someone on another blog commented:
*que Bonnie Raitt*
Turn down the lights, turn down the bed
Turn down these voices inside my head
Lay down with me, tell me no lies
Just hold me close, don’t patronize – don’t patronize me
Cause I can’t make you love me if you don’t
You can’t make your heart feel something it won’t
Here in the dark, in these final hours
I will lay down my heart and I’ll feel the power
But you won’t, no you won’t
‘Cause I can’t make you love me, if you don’t
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW9Cu6GYqxo
Another Halocene Human
@dr. luba: This is like stories I heard about the 1960’s. Damn. WTF is up with these people so stuck in the past.
I have a good story. I picked up my local college rag, which has this stupid libertarian columnist who won’t shut up (engineering major, mais oui). An alumnus wrote a letter to the editor dressing the libertardian down and refuting all his points, defending Obama’s record insomuch as he is a president and not a king with unlimited power to override a Congress determined to sabotage the economy and make him a one-term president. In the last two paragraphs the writer revealed that he is a life-long Republican but “like Jeb Bush*, I don’t recognize my party any more”. Ironically, the libertarian had a new column running right next to this letter denouncing political moderates as useless wishy-washy wastes of oxygen.
*yes, it is an odd world where Jeb! is considered a moderate, but there you have it
Cacti
@Another Halocene Human:
Didn’t Burr challenge Hamilton to a duel because he believed Hamilton had circulated a rumor about him having an incestuous relationship with his daughter?
Our national politics have always been ugly.
rikyrah
This is what doesn’t scare me, Cole. You act as if they haven’t called this President and his entire family, everything but a child of God since the moment he got the nomination in 2008. They’ve done and said everything about this President that is possible, outside of calling him outright a ‘Nigger’ (looking at you Santorum). Let them bring it….THIS doesnt scare me, and doesn’t even depress me.
Because, THIS is who these muthafuckas are.
And, all they’ve got is that Willard is rich and White. That’s it. Not a damn thing else.
I mean it when I say that the fellow White folks here better talk to their other White compatriots that have a history of voting against their own interests. Gotta give up clinging to that Whiteness.
Violet
@Violet: GAH. FYWP. Can’t edit. Should be:
The right is inherent in being able to believe what you want in this country. The right does not extend to being free of criticism of that belief.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Linda Featheringill:
Thanks for asking! I went to the first doc (post ER) today (two more scheduled later next week) and got the initial reports. I don’t really want to get in to details but it looks like some bad news with really expensive treatments/medications that there’s no way we can afford.
IOW, another day for another person in the fine medical/insurance system we have here in America. It’s a hell of a lot to digest (same for my wife) so right now I’m pretty much choking it down. I’ll find out more later next week.
GxB
@Litlebritdifrnt: While all is fair seeing as so much is riding on this election, if our side has to resort to purely emotionally charged pleading, rumors, innuendo, slander, and/or outright lies to “trick” enough on the fence into seeing things our way; and simple reasoned logic holds no sway over the vast multitudes of the electorate, then there isn’t much substance left to save. Ultimately we get the government we (collectively) deserve – pity we’re in the petri dish with them.
Another Halocene Human
@Violet: We’re asking you to stop. Is that clear enough?
I have no problem criticizing a religion, or people who set themselves up as pro
fiphets. I’m no fan of organized religion, especially when they really get organized like when they fund Prop Hate and NOM and engage in decades-long child rape coverups.But it’s really over the line to start slamming someone because of their religion. This is America, and you’re entitled to worship whatever goofy religion you so please, as long as you aren’t harming anyone else by doing so.
The notion that someone’s religion is goofy always seems rooted in the unspoken premise that is goofy by comparison to “real” religion, that is, “the one I grew up with”.
Unless a religion makes relatively few claims about the nature of our phenomenal reality (which are falsifiable) or about the unknowable (which inherently are not), such as some Americanized Buddhist traditions which have a good number of atheist adherents, it’s going to be kind of goofy to non-adherents. (IMO, goofiness or non-goofiness has little relationship to how socially harmful that particular religion is, so don’t take this as me saying that a non-goofy religion is better somehow.)
Nobody likes to be ridiculed, so American religionists–with the exception of fundagelicals, who are selfish pricks with no respect for others–have long practiced a M.A.D. policy with respect to the perceived goofiness of each other’s practices. We simply don’t mention how goofy we find them in polite company. That would be rude and might make the odd sincere believer among us or (more dangerously) the somewhat unthinking, closed-minded clods in the crowd feel shame, followed by a cleansing and highly weaponized rage, which will then be swiftly visited upon others.
This shouldn’t exempt religion from critical review, but, again, looking seriously at a religion is different from saying, “Wow, Bob is such a dork. Can you believe the silly prayers those people say? Oh, and I heard they believe you can marry at age fourteen. That’s messed up. Teeheeheehee.”
The goals of a more open, just, and vibrant society are not met by ridiculing, alienating, and bullying people for the religion they choose to adhere to.
Let’s not attack people for WHAT they are. Attack them for WHO they are.
Linda Featheringill
@rikyrah: #66
“everything but a child of God”
Nicely put. :-)
GxB
@Another Halocene Human: Well this point I was making was a bit more abstract. Clearly our choices are affecting the very planet we live on. So all pugs are ultimately screwing future generations – including their own. The Rmoney levels of wealth are probably reasoning that massive reserves of cash will spare their offspring come whatever man made apocalypse. We shall see, but I think few descendants of the feudal European kings have a sweet gig these days, and the fall were set up for is going to make even Tagg, Torque, Turd, Tank and Tripp (I may be getting those names confused) et. al. prospects look grim.
Linda Featheringill
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
Talk with your doctor about money. He probably has someone in his office that can show you options and/or refer you to people who can help. But he needs to know this.
Another Halocene Human
@Violet: Who said they had any right to be immune from criticism? I think we object to BJ doing it. Especially because there is no there there. We don’t know what Romney believes because he’s a liar who’ll say anything to get elected. (But if you read the tea leaves of his advisors, there’s reason to freak out, like, right now.) Given that he’s a liar with no principles, what relevance does his religion have? He’ll throw that over in a second for a buck or a chance at power. So who the fuck cares?
Mormon culture in the 60’s could explain what informed Romney’s horrible discomfort with gays/non-conformists leading to the scissors incident, but it’s useless as a predictor of future behavior…
Another Halocene Human
@Cacti: I think it fluctuates.
Another Halocene Human
@rikyrah: Everything but a child of God. You said it.
Another Halocene Human
@GxB: and simple reasoned logic holds no sway over the vast multitudes of the electorate, then there isn’t much substance left to save
We go to war with the human brains we have, not the perfect brains we wish could be…
Human cognition just doesn’t work that way. You either catch on to what marketers and the Republican party have understood for decades or you lose, even though you’re right, over and over again.
This cause is too important to sacrifice to some idiotic Vulcan purity march.
Linda Featheringill
@Another Halocene Human: #76
Yes. Remember who you are, Violet. We’re better than that.
[And no, Violet. I don’t hate you.]
Another Halocene Human
@GxB: So all pugs are ultimately screwing future generations – including their own. The Rmoney levels of wealth are probably reasoning that massive reserves of cash will spare their offspring come whatever man made apocalypse.
This is a really good point and I think you’re right that there is no mountain fastness, no desert island. In fact even the elites suffer, and badly, when they destroy the society they have benefited from.
Fear and greed make fools of men–and narcissists would rather rule in Hell than serve in Heaven. Combine that will too-liberal taxes and you get our 3rd world in the 1st world nightmare that is America.
Violet
@Another Halocene Human:
I didn’t criticize the Romneys for their religion. Please read the thread. I’ve been discussing the issue of criticizing them for their religion with Linda Featheringill.
@Another Halocene Human:
Linda did. See her statement below. Bolding is mind.
@Linda Featheringill:
Violet
@Linda Featheringill:
Please show me in this thread or another where I criticized or ridiculed the Romneys for their religious beliefs.
Linda Featheringill
@Violet:
Peace.
Violet
@Linda Featheringill: So you can’t find any examples?
myiq2xu
Which is why Obama is trying to run away from his own record. His only hope is convincing voters that Romney would be even worse.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Linda Featheringill:
We mentioned the money part at the appointment today and the doctor used a lot of “might”s, which was invariably followed by an involuntary facial wince. We will still pursue this angle and thank you very much for your advice! Medication prices mentioned were “thousands of dollars a month”. Also followed with a facial wince.
Of course our medical coverage is bottom of the basement since that’s where we live in life, so there’s no doubt that the necessary drugs aren’t covered and if they are, the copay is going to be killer.
Fun times ahead. Not. But I will plug through it just like everything else I do in life.
One bridge at a time.
Yutsano
@myiq2xu: You’re not clapping hard enough. Hillary still isn’t President.
suzanne
I have long wondered if Mitt and Ann have received the Second Anointing. Supposedly that temple ordinance allows one to lie, because one has already been “pre-pardoned” of sin. The LDS are so secretive about that ceremony that most of my LDS friends don’t even know about it.
GxB
@Another Halocene Human: Damn, I knew that post was going to backfire. But thanks for the catch, it does sound a bit Spockish doesn’t it? Actually that post was quite a bit longer but didn’t gel my position quite right so it got chopped.
I’ll admit to being a bit on the purity side, the firebaggers got me off that kick right quick, but my point being what are we going to do when the idiocracy has a lock on the majority? When no amount of our effort can sway us from axing education, science, and reality based decision making – thus further accelerating the death spiral. When we have to resort to their tactics and fight idiocy with tactics effective only with idiots, well that’s probably not going to end well.
suzanne
FWIW, here’s my two rules regarding religion.
1) If you have to pay to join, or if financial contributions are required as a condition of continued membership, RUN.
2) If they won’t tell you everything they believe, every ceremony they perform, how every penny is spent, on day one, RUN.
At some point, all the storytelling parts are just storytelling and don’t matter much. Once you decide to believe in anything you can’t prove, it doesn’t really matter what flavor you choose. But if you can stay clear of the many, MANY religions that violate Suzanne’s Rules One and/or Two, you’ll be okay, for the most part.
Chewbackhair
rikyrah-
Bush vs. Chimp. BusHitler. Sarah Palin is a Cunt.
This is from a black dude who says I typically have no interest in dating Black women! (because he’s such a a loser dude that black women don’t want to be with him– and the reason whites and “others” won’t date him is so totally raaaacism!)
Even better… “And i’m not saying that there aren’t any great Black women out there… there definitely are. But they are few“.
More Balloon Juice…“And Black women generally aren’t attracted to me because I’ve never been arrested“
I am lacking words.
magurakurin
The problem with Rmoney is not that he is a Mormon. It’s that he is a soulless vampire who will will suck the life out of all he can.
Hell, Harry Reid is a Mormon. I like Harry. Sure, maybe he is no Ted Williams of the Senate, but he has stepped up to the plate from time to time and gotten some hits. He’s a solid player and by most accounts a stand up guy. I’m not a religious person, but it isn’t as simple as “he’s a mormon, they’re kooky so he’s bad.”
Rmoney is bad. That he is a Mormon isn’t really a plus for me by any means, but on “the things that make Rmoney bad” list it is way, way down on the list.
Patricia Kayden
It’s been an ugly 3.5 years, so it’s no surprise that it’s going to be an ugly election. May the best man win (Obama being by far the best man, of course).
suzanne
@magurakurin: I have some big problems with the LDS Church. (None of them theological.) The Prop 8 shit, the fact that they are investing more in City Creek Center than they’ve spent in humanitarian aid FOR THE PAST TWENTY-FIVE YEARS in order to gentrify Salt Lake City (but now have to slash prices on the condos, hah!), not to mention the rampant, current, and totally par-for-the-course misogyny.
I can vote, and have voted, for Mormons, but it’s definitely an in-spite-of thing.
Lurker
@myiq2xu:
Um. I’m voting for President Obama this November BECAUSE of his record.
Why are you voting for Mitt Romney?
Heliopause
If Romney loses, which seems likely, they have absolutely nobody left on their bench who is even more centristy and inoffensive. They’ll have no choice but to run a lunatic against Hillary in 2016. That will be very entertaining, possibly making the Obama years look tame by comparison.
suzanne
Do y’all really think Hillary will run in four years? I think she and Joey B. will be done by that time, ready to kick back with a beer on the back patio.
Come to think of it, I’m ready for that RIGHT NOW. Fuck this running the country shit.
gogol's wife
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
I am so sorry to hear that. I hope you can get the help you need.
rikyrah
@Chewbackhair:
Um,I’m rikyrah.
I’m a female.
A Black woman, who, has repeated the meme of White folks that vote against their own economic self-interests…..because, it’s true. And, IMO, it’s because they cling to Whiteness.
Because, I am Black, I know those White folks won’t listen to me….
So, I ask the BJ White folks to tell these folks that vote against their own self-interest, to stop clinging to that Whiteness.
Z
It’s amazing how many Republicans could’ve run and gotten the nomination but were too comfortable/lazy/afraid to do so or so stupid as to think that running Bain Capital made Romney a formidable campaigner and President rather than a formidable Powerpoint presenter who doesn’t think about what to say after the next 15 minutes are over.
Obviously some of them would’ve turned into Fred Thompson/Wesley Clark/Rick Perry and we’d find out they couldn’t handle a national campaign, but there’s certainly a better-than-Romney alternative out there between McDonnell, Rubio, etc. No one had the balls that Obama did to not wait till their “turn.”
Weaselone
@Chewbackhair:
Shoo stupid, ineffectual troll. Stop pretending you give a rat’s sphincter about closing Gitmo or stopping the government cracking down on medical marijuana. Your side is the one withholding the funds to close Gitmo and ruled that growing marijuana for personal used was illegal in Raiche.
It has been said that it is better to keep one’s yap shut and allow others to suspect ignorance than to open it and remove all doubt. The stimulus bill was 787 billion dollars, approximately 1/3 of which was tax breaks. That you don’t see a $787 billion drop between 2010 and 2011 stems partially from the fact it wasn’t all spending hikes and partially because the stimulus wasn’t $787 billion over 1 year, it was $787 billion over 3 years.
As to why the budget and deficit were so high, it’s mainly the effect of the automatic stabilizers. When the country enters a recession, tax revenue drops due to lower wages, capitals gains and business profits. At the same time, spending rises more people and businesses utilize existing government programs and safety nets. That’s why the CBO placed the estimated budget deficit at $1.4 trillion before Obama even took office.
Kane
@Linda Featheringill:
True, Romney has a right to believe in the God of his choosing. However, because Romney has claimed that every decision that he makes is influenced by his faith, voters have the right to question and criticize him on the merits and faults of his faith. Voters also have every right to decide whether they want a president whose decisions are influenced by his Morman faith. If Romney believed in Thor or leprechauns, would it be out of bounds for the BJ group and others to question and criticize him on those beliefs?
Chewbackhair
rikyrah-
I suppose I got a little “hetero-normative” in my original reply…
So, you are a black lesbian that is considered unattractive by the other few great black women because you haven’t been arrested.
Really?
Nice recovery
Another Halocene Human
@GxB: Point taken, I mean it’s like edging towards a Straussian position and that way lies perdition.
I guess I don’t tend to think of it in terms of people being goobers because people as a group change over time and their opinions are malleable (which is exactly what big money takes advantage of). Different circumstances create different politics. At some point the other side goes too far and the rubber band snaps back as ordinary people lose their fear and fight with their all to change things. That’s what I believe.
Another Halocene Human
@Chewbackhair:
Now that’s just funny. I don’t care who you are.
catclub
@SiubhanDuinne: I just state as fact, that if he wins, he will be sworn in on the Book of Mormon.
I am guessing that it does not need to be stated that every Baptist preacher from here to Portland, Maine has told his congregation that that is a book of lies.
Citizen_X
@Chewbackhair: You fucking moron. The person you were quoting was not rikyrah.
Nice job pissing all over yourself.
Another Halocene Human
@rikyrah: Well, technically they aren’t clinging to Whiteness, they are clinging to a system of racial preference. Reifying whiteness actually undermines the thought structure by which (in part) they dominate, where they are the default, they are people embodied, and all other persons are somehow defective or other.
catclub
@suzanne: Elizabeth Warren (if she can squeak out a win in Mass for Senate.)
Agreed that both Biden and Hillary are probably too old (and also have more sense than the old people who have run lately).
Another Halocene Human
@Citizen_X: Must be a troll. They look like posts from an MRA site. The one site is a race troll twist on the old “women only like jerks, not nice guys like me, but they’ll be sorry one day, one day.”
Odie Hugh Manatee
@gogol’s wife:
Thank you very much. :)
Heliopause
@Kane:
I personally don’t consider it out of bounds for bloggers to question anything they want about a politician. For instance, it would be perfectly appropriate to question Romney’s, Obama’s or any other Christian’s beliefs; that a god-man was born of a virgin, miraculously healed sickness and raised the dead, then rose from the dead himself, then will someday in the future raise the rest of us from the dead if we believe in it hard enough. The Norse and Celts must have stayed up nights trying to think up stuff as ridiculous as this.
JoeShabadoo
I think trashing Obama is going to be hard because they have to stick in the general area of the truth. Since Obama is the president everyone knows him so they can’t just make shit up or go after his old Reverend anymore. They can lie but not about just anything.
Ratcheting up the attacks you see know about medicare cuts, tax increases and improving the private sector are all they can do. He is too much of a known quantity to really sling that shit on him.
John M. Burt
@suzanne:
I don’t know. I think Edward Bellamy had something when he said that in Looking Backwards’ Year 2000 churches were supported mainly by ticket sales.
Kane
But the thing is, they have been trashing Obama non-stop for four years. Seriously, could it possibly get any uglier than what we have already seen? They have shot their wad on every lie and conspiracy theory, and still, the public generally likes Obama.
And they don’t have anywhere near the ammo that they had in 2008. They can’t morph Obama into Bin Laden. They can’t tell voters that another 9/11 will happen or warn about death panels if Obama is re-elected. The pals around with terrorists line is weak as is the questioning of his birth place, citizenship and patriotism. They can’t even portray his wife as an angry militant Black woman.
Take away the Rovian fear cards, and they got nothing.
GxB
@Another Halocene Human: Christ I hope you’re right about the malleability of the general electorate – that rubber band can swing them back any time now… please… soon…
And FSM save us if that sucker snaps outright, here in WI I’ve had a few cold buckets of water dumped over my head in the past year or so, so I may just be excessively negative, but this shit is getting scary.
Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason
@Anne Laurie: Wow. Just wow.
Darkrose
Or by who they choose to love. Since the LDS have not gotten that message, I have no problem giving them exactly the amount of respect they’ve given me.
“Magic underwear” jokes are as childish as “magic cookie” references. Saying that LDS and Roman Catholic doctrine promotes hatred and bigotry? I’m going to stand by that one.
Darkrose
Given that Mormons in California were told that they had an obligation to support the Yes on 8 campaign, I think knowing that someone’s a devout Mormon is a very good predictor of whether or not they’ll think they should have a say in my marriage.
Triassic Sands
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
OHM, I know nothing of your situation, but don’t despair yet. There are many programs to help people with expensive drugs and I wouldn’t rely on a doctor to know what they are — doctor’s are often woefully ignorant of the realities of our glorious health care system.
For many medications it would be worth looking first at needymeds dot com. Of course, I have no idea what medications you are talking about, but there are an amazing array listed — both generic and brand name — at needymeds. Often the drugs are completely free; sometimes, as with greedheads like Purdue (the felons who bring us Oxycontin), there is a co-pay. (Purdue is one of the great examples of parasites (MDs in this case) who went into pain management to make as much money as possible. (Frankly, I was amazed they had any program at all. To be fair, I just checked their page at needymeds and the information has changed. It’s possible they don’t require a co-pay in some cases.)
If that doesn’t help, contact drug companies directly or visit their websites, because many have programs for people who can’t afford their medications.
One of the weaknesses of this kind of program is that it can often serve the very poor, better than those a bit better off. If a person has no prescription drug coverage at all, it can be easier to find help than if the coverage is merely inadequate.
I wish you luck.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Triassic Sands:
Thanks for the advice, every bit of it is appreciated! Some drug names were tossed out but there’s not much I can do but sweat it out until I see the next specialist, which won’t be scheduled until after my appointment with the surgeon on Wednesday. Though there isn’t a whole lot of ‘bright’ to hang on to right now, we’re hanging on to the bit we have and are hoping for the best. It’s far less depressing than the alternative right now. One thing to note is that the lump in my right lung is the least of my worries.
I never thought the day would come where I would be saying something like that!
Triassic Sands
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
And I’m sorry that day ever arrived.
Again, I know nothing of your condition, but I remember what happened to Stephen Jay Gould. He was diagnosed with peritoneal mesothelioma, one of the worst possible diagnoses. His statistical prognosis was very poor, but he studied the literature, and according to his account, realized that the standard prognosis is based on a normal curve. Yes, most of the people are located in the central part of the curve, but there are always tails, and those people, at least the lucky ones located in the good tail, beat the odds. Gould did, too. He did not succumb to mesothelioma. In fact, he lived another 20 years.
From Wikipedia:
May you live long on the tail.
JR in WV
@Linda Featheringill:
Linda, I respectfully disagree!
Freedom of religion doesn’t mean that one group of Americans shouldn’t do whatever they want – peacefully – about another group’s bizarre religious fixations.
I think reducing Mormonism to its essential foundations and making fun of the odd – strange, crazed beliefs Mormons are required to believe in order to be admitted to the Temple is exactly what is called for in thie particular election season.
If you disagree, that’s fine, you should show your respect for the finer qualities of Mormonism, while in the center ring Williard Rommany makes a fool out of a large (but minority) percentage of the population. I’ll watch it all and laugh and applaud, because otherwise I’ll spend the next few months crying myself to sleep.
JR in WV
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
Odie,
My father was diagnosed with leukemia, CMML, and now I can’t tell you precisely what those letters stand for. He learned shortly after diagnosis that the median survival period after diagnosis was 9 months.
He got good treatment in Houston TX, not always a given, and lived something like 5 years. It would have been longer, but he visited his home in WV, and the altitude (2600 feet above Houston) made him dizzy, and he fell and broke his femur. Recovery from the surgery took several months.
He was participating in a clinical trial of a drug that nailed his disease to the floor. The experimental drug could not be provided outside the clinical trial, in WV where he was rehabing from the fall and surgery. By the time he returned to Houston, the experimental med was no longer effective.
But my point is that various treatments are out there. Many of them will work on a significant proportion of those who try them. If you are persistent, incredibly persistent, that is your best survival strategy. Get help being persistent, too.
My best friend’s wife is beating an incredibly virulent breast cancer with completely normal treatments persistently applied. So hang in there. Thousands of researchers are working for you right now.
Best of luck!
JR