Oh We’ll Make Time For This, He Said

And if there’s any doubt as to who controls the GOP leadership these days, the inmates are clearly not only running the asylum, they’re franchising it.

House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) and Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-VA) announced Wednesday that the full House would consider a resolution finding Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt of Congress next week. The House Oversight Committe voted Wednesday afternoon to find Holder in contempt because they allege he failed to turn over documents related to the committee’s investigation into the botched ATF operation known as Fast and Furious.

So yeah,nothing like a good ol’ Constitutional crisis just before the 4th of July.  Executive privilege apparently doesn’t mean a damn thing now to the selfsame Republicans who defended Bush using it over a dozen times.  POTUS is being impeached by proxy here.  These guys are now fully insane.

 

102 replies
  1. 1
    Maude says:

    Bet it backfires.
    People aren’t going to care about it and the Repubs aren’t doing anything about the economy.
    Is Romney alive? It’s so hard to tell.
    It’s hot.

  2. 2
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    I have to laugh about a car thief wanting to conduct an investigation of the USAG.

    Republicans love criminals, they put them on Faux and elect them to office.

  3. 3
    Hunter Gathers says:

    In the coming weeks and months, as the GOPers and their media sycophants try to make hay out of this, the nation will ask itself the following questions – “Why the hell are these idiots going on and on about ‘Fast and Furious’? Wasn’t The Rock in that one? What the fuck does a shitty sequel have to do with anything?”

  4. 4
    Raven says:

    Just got through driving from Savannah to Athens and tuned into Hannity. Gomer, Cornyn and a host of others, “This is worse than Watergate”!

  5. 5
    Baud says:

    I say good. The biggest problem we have is that the media isn’t reporting on how crazy these people are. Maybe their dancing in front of the cameras in chicken suits will help break through the cone of silence.

  6. 6
    gogol's wife says:

    @Hunter Gathers:

    that’s even my reaction every time I hear it, and I never saw the movie!

  7. 7
    fuckwit says:

    Hehehe, this is just Rethug Mafia revenge for the AG suing Florida to stop their civil rights abuses. They’re trying to get rid of Holder because he’s being mean to those good ol’ boy racists. Also, his hair looks kinda kinky… are you sure he wasn’t born in Kenya?

    Speaking of AG’s and contempt: Alberto Gonzales, and indeed Darth Cheney and Shrub himself, should have been held in contempt many years ago for stonewalling Congress. But, nothing happened. Hmm, I wonder why?

    We have a dysfunctional, corrupt House and Senate, and a partisan, corrupt SCOTUS. I think a good old fashioned Constitutional crisis is what we need right now. It’ll be interesting to see how Obama pushes back on this AG issue, and the debt ceiling, and other issues, and how he chooses to do it.

  8. 8
    JenJen says:

    @Maude: He’s an idiot, but even Michael Steele thinks this thing has backfire potential:

    Michael Steele: Optics Of Holder Contempt Hearing ‘Not Good For The GOP’

  9. 9
    Steve M. says:

    The Hill reported this morning that the NRA decided to score the committee vote on the Holder contempt citation, which means Republican committee members had to vote yea or their NRA letter grades would go down and they’d be tarred as gun-grabbers.

    I assume the NRA will similarly play hardball with the full House vote, which means it will get every GOP vote and a few voters from Democrats — and Boehner and Cantor have no choice but to hold the vote.

  10. 10
    Legalize says:

    It’s fucking hot; people want to have enough cheddar to sit on the beach for a couple of days; and the GOP is talking about a horrible Vin Diesel movie.

    Jobs, jobs, jobs ….

  11. 11
    Hill Dweller says:

    If it passes, this will be the first time in history the House has found a cabinet member in contempt of Congress.

    In other news(per WSJ), the IG’s investigation of Fast and Furious has led to a criminal investigation of court sealed documents being inadvertently given to congressional staffers, who then refused to give them back. Issa lied about how he attained them. I would love to see this backfire on that car thief.

  12. 12
    FlipYrWhig says:

    Maybe the idea is to have the Republicans in Congress act so stupid and crazy that the country starts to yearn for an end to the partisan bickering and decides to elect a uniter, not a divider. It worked for Dubya Bush. Problem is, Winthorpe Millingford Romney has been prancing towards pure partisanship for months, years really, and he’s not going to be able to pull that off.

  13. 13
    Nellcote says:

    @Hill Dweller:

    linky, please

  14. 14
    dmsilev says:

    These guys are now fully insane.

    (a) Are now fully insane? Like they weren’t already?

    (b) Peak wingnut is a lie.

    Pick your poison.

  15. 15
    Hill Dweller says:

    @Nellcote: Go over to TPM. They have it in their live update section.

  16. 16
    Sasha says:

    These guys are now fully insane.

    They were always fully insane. The difference is now that no one is trying to hide it.

  17. 17
    BGinCHI says:

    Where are the jobs, Boner?

  18. 18
    Culture of Truth says:

    Obama is going to veto their energy bill. All these years of reaching out and now he has the nerve to act like he’s President or something.

  19. 19
    The Populist says:

    @Maude: Hope they try to impeach him. Last time that happened, it didn’t go well for the party’s ringleaders.

    Anybody wonder what Rep. Rogan is doing nowadays?

  20. 20
    The Populist says:

    @BGinCHI: Problem is when you ask one of their insane message board defenders, they can’t answer it either. It’s OBAMA’S FAULT….ahhhhhhhhhhh.

    Wow. Unfortunately America isn’t always smart enough to ask why congress is wasting time on this nonsense vs. finding ways to get more Americans back to work.

  21. 21
    Thoroughly Pizzled says:

    Fast and Furious showed reckless disregard for the laws of physics and built up a complicated scheme for most of the movie before abruptly jettisoning it in the finale, but it was really fun to watch and The Rock did a good job.

  22. 22
    Tonal Crow says:

    Please Republicans, go full-metal impeachment against Obama! Let’s hear about birth certificates, Kenyan anti-colonialism, Indonesian mosques, 8-year-olds eating dog-meat, and how Obama has already used black helicopters to deport hundreds of thousands of Republicans to concentration camps outside Moscow.

    Get Bachmann-Palin Overdrive out there, and glop on the Santorum Sauce!

  23. 23
    Culture of Truth says:

    the last time the full house almost held a cabinet member in contempt was…. AG Janet Reno, when the GOP held the House. Just before they lost it.

  24. 24
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Sasha:

    This.

    They’re loud, and proud about their batshit insanity.

  25. 25
    beltane says:

    @BGinCHI: Boner gives us no bread and the World’s Shittiest Circus. In a just world, it would be thumbs down and to the lions they go.

  26. 26
    lacp says:

    They’re not all insane. The Orange Weeper is just venal and corrupt.

  27. 27
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Culture of Truth:

    All these years of reaching out and now he has the nerve to act like he’s President or something.

    Look at the guy. He’s near. There’s no fucking way he’s President.

  28. 28
    Valdivia says:

    yet one more reason not to read or watch the news.

  29. 29
    PeakVT says:

    On the other side of the aisle, once-and-future (hopefully) Speaker Pelosi is trying to frame the upcoming debt limit debate.

  30. 30
    ThatLeftTurnInABQ says:

    Being held in Contempt of Congress might have a little more sting to if Congress wasn’t so contemptible, a sentiment than on any given day roughly 80-90% of Americans agree with.

  31. 31
    Anton Sirius says:

    Can we petition Holder to retroactively rename it operation Bring It On instead of Fast and Furious?

    Because seriously: bring it on, House fucktards. Publicly wank over this incomprehensible drivel instead of doing something to get people back to work.

    NOTHING will better illustrate the case Obama needs to make against this obstructionist Congress than this asinine, ineffectual impeachment.

  32. 32
    Yutsano says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: Only allowable near President is Morgan Freeman.

  33. 33
    the Conster says:

    I love Republican overreach. They have the attention span of a two year old coupled with the game plan skills of a meth addict. This should work out real well for them.

  34. 34
    beltane says:

    It would be awesome if some organization conducted a mock trial of the Republican Party for their long-term efforts to destroy the United States of America. Sort of like laying out the prosecution’s case in an American version of the Nuremburg trials. There would be no legal ramifications of course, but future generations deserve to have all the damning evidence against this corrupt, fascist cult collected and preserved.

  35. 35
    Culture of Truth says:

    When the health care ruling comes down, no one will care.

  36. 36
    SFAW says:

    They’re loud, and proud about their batshit insanity.

    SAY it Loud, I’m Nuts and I’m Proud!
    – by the Godfathers of Crazy, The Least Working Men in Gov Business …. Ladies and Gentlemen …. Your Rethuglican Party!!!!

  37. 37
    Baud says:

    @Valdivia:

    Yep. Been there for a while now.

  38. 38
    Steve M. says:

    @Culture of Truth: “Just before they lost it”? That was in 1998; they didn’t lose the House until the 2006 midterms.

  39. 39
    SFAW says:

    Can we petition Holder to retroactively rename it operation Bring It On Bite Me instead of Fast and Furious?

    Fixed to make it more confrontational.

  40. 40
    Baud says:

    @Culture of Truth: Good point. This thing has a short shelf life.

  41. 41
    trollhattan says:

    That’s “car thief and arsonist.”
    Yeah, hard to imagine this getting much traction anywhere beyond the usual Fox hyperventilators.

    OT, I really like our veep, gaffes and all.

    http://blogs.sacbee.com/capito.....biden.html

  42. 42
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    This is what Holder gets for having the audacity to stop white Republican officeholders from removing brown people from the voter rolls in states like Florida.

    Since Senator Cornyn pretty much said this is the case, I’ll agree with him this one time.

  43. 43
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @SFAW:

    How about “Bite me cracker-ass honky”? Let’s crank that confrontation knob up to 11!

  44. 44
    Culture of Truth says:

    @Steve M.: Ah, you’re right – I was thinking of their losses and Gingrich’s resignation

  45. 45
    Rita R. says:

    Ovah-reach. They just can’t help themselves. Too much time spent in the wingnut bubble makes them believe that the nation really cares about these fabricated “scandals.” They’re not going to get the crazy GOP base more riled up to vote against Obama than they already are, while independent voters — if they pay attention to this at all — are going to want to know why Republicans are wasting time on this when we need jobs! Thank you Rep. Issa for helping the Democrats’ effort to take back control of the House.

  46. 46
    SFAW says:

    How about “Bite me cracker-ass honky”?

    Certainly more confrontational, but it’s not in keeping with the decorum of that august body.

  47. 47
    Maude says:

    I want a tee shirt that says, impeachment is on the table.

  48. 48
    cmorenc says:

    Part of the “insanity” is that it only took a very short time after Obama’s election (for some) and his taking office (for many others) to regard Obama as an illegitimate usurper who had only been able to gain office by hijacking a momentary perfect storm of public dissatisfaction with his predecessor, with an illegitimate assist from voter fraud and a legitimate assist from being blessed with an inept, weak opponent in John McCain. A second part of the “insanity” is the success of the very early decision to attempt to induce failure of the Obama Administration using Senate filibuster rules and total noncooperation, which progressively grew with their success in the 2010 elections into the belief that rolling back the entire foundation of progressivism, all the way back to the bedrock of the New Deal was feasibly achievable. A third part of the “insanity” is the ruthlessly cynical willingness to pander to and harnass the outright racism and nativism of a substantial part of their base, especially in the south and southwest, in order to achieve their aims. A fourth part of their insanity is a ruthless willingness to take advantage of the weakness of the mainstream media to shamelessly throw a continuing stream of outright lies against the wall of the public, knowing that they could count on short news-cycle attention spans and their ability to distract any adverse attention by creating yet another shiny object for the press to chase after.

    In short, they’ve developed a firm belief that whatever works to destroy democrats and increase their own power is not only justified, but works in practice, with enough evidence to confirm in their minds that they’re right about this. The troubling question this raises is: are they insane after all, or instead simply ruthless sociopaths?

  49. 49
    The Dangerman says:

    It’s going to be a long fucking summer (longer if you’re a Cubs fan); Holder, debt limit, etc.

    Wake me when it’s fucking over.

  50. 50

    @Culture of Truth:
    Gee.

    It’s almost as if the GOP had something against law enforcement (when they’re in charge).

  51. 51
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Culture of Truth:

    They did come damn close to losing the House, and that’s why Gingrich was basically forced to resign. Someone had to take the blame for such a pathetic performance when the expectation was they’d pick up seats, not lose any.

  52. 52
    russ says:

    to most poeple this is not a “Big F#^king Deal”, it just those guys in Congress doing what they always do.

  53. 53
    Yutsano says:

    @The Dangerman: Debt limit isn’t until January. But there’s a shit ton of tax policies expiring that could hit just about everyone. A shutdown is more likely about that. Ugly, it shall be.

  54. 54
    beltane says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: I wonder who Boehner’s Callista is.

  55. 55
    longtime lurk says:

    Republicans may in fact be overreaching here, but Holder is definitely not blameless in this.

    Some group of people within the Justice Department thought it was a good idea to sell guns to Mexican drug cartels. At least one of these guns was involved in the murder of a federal agent. Holder’s response to this has been to deflect all blame from himself, and circle the wagons to protect the people responsible.

    Well, the people responsible for this should be fired immediately, not protected, right up to the highest level officials who knew about and did nothing to stop it. If this had happened months ago, then Republicans would have zero ammunition for what they are doing now.

    So, even if they are overreaching, there is at least a kernel of “there” there, whereas if Holder had done the right thing in the first place then there wouldn’t be.

  56. 56
    trollhattan says:

    @beltane:

    I wonder who Boehner’s Callista is.

    Bottle of Canadian Club with a wig.

  57. 57
    Ash Can says:

    Based only on the fact that the House has the popularity ratings of e-coli bacteria, I don’t see how this ends well for these morons.

  58. 58
    BGinCHI says:

    Shorter GOP: Get the black guy! No? OK, get the other black guy!

  59. 59
    Svensker says:

    @Steve M.: Steve M. Says:

    The Hill reported this morning that the NRA decided to score the committee vote on the Holder contempt citation,

    The NRA is pissed at Holder because he tried to regulate border sales of large quantities of assault weapons. WTF? Why is that not a good thing? Except to crazy people. Oh, well, there’s your answer.

  60. 60
    The Dangerman says:

    @Yutsano:

    Debt limit isn’t until January.

    I thought the Republicans were going to go there again (somehow)? Something about not wanting to cut the Pentagon or some such shit (spoken as a former DOD contractor) so they’ll re-open the done deal (somehow).

    It could be that I heard that in one of my drunken hazes (not as frequent as for those poor Cubs fans, but up there).

  61. 61
    BGinCHI says:

    @trollhattan: Win.

    Might have gone with George Dickel with a wig.

  62. 62
    Svensker says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Dead honky!

    h/t Richard Pryor MHRIP

  63. 63
    TenguPhule says:

    Maybe the idea is to have the Republicans in Congress act so stupid and crazy that the country starts to yearn for an end to the partisan bickering and decides to elect a uniter, not a divider.

    If President for Life Barrack Hussein Obama wants to unite the country by water the streets of Washington with the blood of his enemies, I say, when do we start?

  64. 64
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    I might add that the poor electoral performance in ’98 gave a plausible pretense to dumping Gingrich, who had already managed to suppress a couple of palace coups. He pissed a lot of Republicans off when he was Speaker. He’s a great back bench feces thrower, but not so terrific in a leadership role. His pathetic Presidential campaign gives further evidence to support this assertion.

  65. 65
    TenguPhule says:

    In short, they’ve developed a firm belief that whatever works to destroy democrats and increase their own power is not only justified, but works in practice, with enough evidence to confirm in their minds that they’re right about this.

    And if anyone can explain how we get out of this mess without mass executions in a way that doesn’t involve freedom pony unicorns, I’d love to hear it.

  66. 66
    Nellcote says:

    @Svensker:

    The NRA has already told the house goopers that their vote on Holder contempt will count on their NRA scorecards.

  67. 67
    joes527 says:

    @The Populist: you know what? Throwing away a large chunk of Clinton’s 2nd term didn’t really work out for any of us. Rooting for injuries is a pretty fucked up response to republican stupidity.

    And yes, I think that they _are_ going to try to impeach him after the election, but even if it hurts the R’s it won’t be a good thing.

  68. 68
    ThatLeftTurnInABQ says:

    @BGinCHI:

    Might have gone with George Dickel with a wig.

    Johnnie Walker Red Label in a dominitrix outfit

  69. 69
    BGinCHI says:

    @ThatLeftTurnInABQ: Is that more expensive than the blue label?

  70. 70
    Nellcote says:

    @longtime lurk:

    Some group of people within the Justice Department thought it was a good idea to sell guns to Mexican drug cartels. At least one of these guns was involved in the murder of a federal agent. Holder’s response to this has been to deflect all blame from himself, and circle the wagons to protect the people responsible.

    Well, the people responsible for this should be fired immediately, not protected, right up to the highest level officials who knew about and did nothing to stop it. If this had happened months ago, then Republicans would have zero ammunition for what they are doing now.

    I call BullShit. Holder stopped the program, fired the AZ supervisors who where responsible for it, brought in an IG to investigate internally, has turned over thousands of pages of documents asked for and more. And guns were found where the border agent was murdered but it’s not been established that he was killed with one of them.

    The program was started during the Bush administration yet Issah has not questioned any of them.

    This is a blatent political witch-hunt which Issah has admitted to with different words.

  71. 71
    chopper says:

    @Baud:

    indeed. anyone thinking a republican house contempt resolution isn’t going to turn into a circus full of braying jackasses needs to remember who we’re actually dealing with here.

    it’s certainly going to keep romney out of the media spotlight.

  72. 72
    chopper says:

    @BGinCHI:

    in Issa’s staff, apparently.

  73. 73
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @TenguPhule: Hopefully the extractions involve the voted out of office kind.

    They really are idiots, Issia could build his case up, even if it is mostly lies, and let Obama poison himself. Instead Issia sets off a Constitutional crises like a moron. At the point it’s rally around a the president.

    I mean seriously, the Villagers are courtiers. It’s only a matter of time before they reach for the smelling salts.

  74. 74
    ThatLeftTurnInABQ says:

    @BGinCHI:

    Is that more expensive than the blue label?

    __
    Cheaper actually. I picked it because I was thinking that color-wise it was the best match for our esteemed Speaker’s sunset hue.

  75. 75
    longtime lurk says:

    @Nellcote: Sure, he threw a few low level agents off the train. I don’t think that is what was called for. The people at ATF were (once again) out of control, and in my opinion that calls for a thorough housecleaning — not firing a couple scapegoats.

    And again, the point is that IF a thorough housecleaning had occurred, Issa wouldn’t have even the slightest anchor for this whole circus tent he’s erecting.

    For what it’s worth, I think it was a big mistake to hide behind exec privilege in this case. They should just turn over the stupid documents, if nothing else then for the sake of living up to “the most transparent administration in history” as someone once said. As it is, people are going to think it smells fishy — and I haven’t decided for sure yet, but I might agree with them.

  76. 76
    BGinCHI says:

    @ThatLeftTurnInABQ: I meant with the value-added dominatrix part.

  77. 77
    Pandemoniac says:

    @longtime lurk:

    Some group of people within the Justice Department thought it was a good idea to sell guns to Mexican drug cartels.

    Really? Who? Grinder and Breuer both said they didn’t know about the gun walking when the program was active. U.S. Att in Phoenix office (Burke?) said he didn’t know about gunwalking when program was active and would not approve of such. That leaves . . . who, exactly?

    Holder’s response to this has been to deflect all blame from himself, and circle the wagons to protect the people responsible.

    Blame for? If by “circling the wagons” you mean “patiently pointing out” that nobody in DOJ approved gun walking, then . . .? The ATF field supervisors knew about gunwalking. The field agents knew. Nothing that the Issa committee has unearthed shows that anyone else knew. (warning pdf)

    All Issa is missing is Fluke in the wings. He is THAT close to bringing more blowback onto the GOP.

  78. 78
    SFAW says:

    Cheaper actually. I picked it because I was thinking that color-wise it was the best match for our esteemed Speaker’s sunset hue.Cheaper actually. I picked it because I was thinking that color-wise it was the best match for our esteemed Speaker’s sunset hue.

    Red and orange? Nah, too close on the color wheel.

    Blue and orange, though … plus it has the added benefit of being my high school’s colors.

  79. 79
    Pandemoniac says:

    @longtime lurk:

    And again, the point is that IF a thorough housecleaning had occurred, Issa wouldn’t have even the slightest anchor for this whole circus tent he’s erecting.

    Um. No. He is holding Holder in contempt for not providing post-2-11 docs (deliberations AFTER the program was shut down) He asks for docs then claims he didn’t ask for them. Cleaning house at ATF has NOTHING to do with this. Issa was briefed on F&F a year before whistleblowers came to light. He then circles wagons and heaps blame on DOJ for not stopping the show.

    For what it’s worth, I think it was a big mistake to hide behind exec privilege in this case.

    ExecPriv is only being invoked for post-2-11 documents that have nothing to do with the mechanics or details of F&F or Bush’s gunwalking program. In Jan2011, Burke announced indictments and the program ended after Agent Terry’s murder. Read the minority report, read the emails, the wiretap summaries, the testimony. It’s a big fat waste of time and govt money.

    If anything Issa says smells fishy to you after the Birth Control panel, it has more to do with your partisan sense of smell than anything else.

  80. 80
    GxB says:

    @Tonal Crow:

    Ahh, BPO featuring all the hits: “Let it [Wall Street] Ride”, “Fakin’ Carin’ Business” and perpetual crowd pleaser “You Ain’t Seen Batshit Yet”

  81. 81
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @longtime lurk: Of course the fact that the IG is investigating this at Holders direction shows that he is deflecting blame and circling the wagons, right? He should have fired everyone who ever got cc’ed on an email about this the moment he found out it was going on, amirite? Facts be damned; let’s blamestorm!

  82. 82
    GxB says:

    @trollhattan: Don’t be silly, that ain’t gonna make you a sammy.

  83. 83
    Spike says:

    @Hunter Gathers: Every time I hear “Fast and Furious”, I think “Mmmmm, Jordana Brewster”.

  84. 84
    rikyrah says:

    these sociopaths were always insane.

  85. 85
    Anton Sirius says:

    @longtime lurk:

    Sure, he threw a few low level agents off the train. I don’t think that is what was called for. The people at ATF were (once again) out of control, and in my opinion that calls for a thorough housecleaning—not firing a couple scapegoats.

    Please, by all means keep ignoring the fact that Holder himself started the IG investigation into this. It makes your motives that much more transparent.

  86. 86
    LAC says:

    @longtime lurk: That slutty Holder. If only he didn’t walk outside with that short skirt and high heels. He was asking for it!

    Please…. Don’t hurt yourself with that.

  87. 87
    Phoenician in a time of Romans says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Maybe the idea is to have the Republicans in Congress act so stupid and crazy that the country starts to yearn for an end to the partisan bickering and decides to elect a uniter, not a divider. It worked for Dubya Bush. Problem is, Winthorpe Millingford Romney has been prancing towards pure partisanship for months, years really, and he’s not going to be able to pull that off.

    Or perhaps the idea is to stick to rules and force Congress to spend all its time and energy forcing through a law change or whatever that will make Holder testify legally – only to have him turn around and fully cooperate, showing there is no there there.

  88. 88
    Mnemosyne says:

    @longtime lurk:

    And again, the point is that IF a thorough housecleaning had occurred, Issa wouldn’t have even the slightest anchor for this whole circus tent he’s erecting.

    When has that ever stopped the Republicans from pushing a bogus, trumped-up investigation? We’re talking about a group of people who started off investigating a failed land deal and ended up impeaching a president over a blow job.

    Even if Holder had fired every ATF agent in the entire United States, Issa would still be investigating. He’d just be taking the tack that Holder fired them unfairly over a program that was totally working and what was Holder hiding by firing so many people?

  89. 89
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    According to CNN:

    The committee’s top Democrat, Rep. Elijah Cummings of Maryland, accused Issa of setting an “impossible standard” for Holder by initially demanding documents the attorney general is legally prohibited from providing.

  90. 90
    Scott Alloway says:

    @BGinCHI: My favorite sour mash. So few people know how good it is. But with a wig? Nah. It’s just liquor.

  91. 91
    Ben Cisco says:

    @ThatLeftTurnInABQ:

    Johnnie Walker Red Label in a dominitrix outfit

    Before this mess is over with, he’ll be willing to settle for a jug of moonshine in a burlap sack.

  92. 92
    longtime lurk says:

    Ok, I see I’m the only one here who things mistakes may have been made in how this was handled. So, hopefully all of you are right and I’m wrong to be skeptical.

    But even if that’s true, I was against Bush invoking executive privilege to shut down investigations, and I’m against it now that Obama is doing it as well. I think we need less secrecy and more transparency. In my view, even (hopefully) baseless investigations like this have a silver lining because, as a side effect, it keeps executive branch people honest.

    And of course I don’t disagree that Issa is a clown (I wouldn’t say “insane” though — he knows exactly what he’s doing) with evil intentions.

  93. 93
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @longtime lurk: Yeah, that’s what everyone has been saying. You said Holder is deflecting blame. You said Holder is circling wagons. People pointed out two things. First, that Issa’s investigation is more than likely a partisan witch hunt rather than an attempt to gather facts. Second, that Holder has directed the IG to investigate the matter. You aren’t being skeptical; quite frankly, I suspect you are being disingenuous, but I am having a cynical day.

  94. 94
    karen says:

    Ok I am confused. If Bush instituted this program, can’t he and his administration be implicated as well? Or is it only illegal if your name isn’t Bush. And only illegal if you’re the wrong color?

  95. 95
    longtime lurk says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: yeah, maybe I am being a bit disingenuous — really just trying to give Holder the benefit of the doubt more than I’m inclined to.

    I’ve not been a big fan of his ever since he started sending his minions out to harass the medical marijuana clinics. Also, the opinions his OLC has issued on drone strikes, the definition of “hostilities” under the War Powers Act not including warplanes bombing targets inside a sovereign country, “due process” does not equal “judicial process”, and various other things it would be tedious to relate here — in sum, he isn’t as bad as Alberto Gonzales, but he’s not exactly a shining example of liberalism either.

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    Pandemoniac says:

    @longtime lurk:

    Ok, I see I’m the only one here who things mistakes may have been made in how this was handled.

    You’re not the only one:

    “This operation was flawed in its concept, and flawed in its execution.” — AG Holder

    I agree on transparency, more so when an injustice has been committed. Issa isn’t asking for documents that shed light on the who, what, when, where and why of the F&F operation. All of that was done pre-2-11. Americans do have a right to know who screwed the pooch ATF or DOJ or WH. Whatev. Issa doesn’t have a single fact to hang his investigation in this regard. If there’s testimony, emails, court filings that gun walking was approved at DOJ or WH before 1-2011, they should get to the bottom of it. Nothing from the ATF on up shows this. Issa is at a dead end here.

    As a point of comparison, Bush refused to let Meyers and Rove testify when they were found in contempt of Congress (eventually they relented and testified). Rove was even allowed (in the Plame case) to come back into Congress by Dems and amend his statements to conform to the truth (Oh THOSE journalists, yes I talked to them). In the end, U.S. Att Iglesias was vindicated and a slew of Bush’s DOJ peeps had to resign. Holder and DOJ officials have testified multiple times. Thousands of docs have been provided. Dead end.

    Issa’s holding Holder in contempt for failing to provide info on what came after 2-2011. He wants to know why Vince Cefalu was fired (asked and answered). He wants to know why Burke Resigned (asked and answered). He is on a classic fishing expedition. Cefalu and Burke’s info is already on the record. Another dead end.

    What is he looking for? What do you want to see uncovered? Can’t find it? I’ll help you.

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    KS in MA says:

    @ThatLeftTurnInABQ: Agreed. Do you suppose we could start an “I Have Contempt For Congress” demonstration?

  98. 98
    Pandemoniac says:

    @longtime lurk: That’s a nifty little list you have going there. Would you be happier if Issa pressed Lamar to investigate any and all of those issues? Don’t you agree that they have a better shot at questioning the constitutionality of and thereby scoring points on any of these fronts? I think so. And yet Republicans like Issa are tugging at loose and insignificant threads. This is the genius strategerizing that got the GOP in trouble on the Birth Control hearings.

  99. 99
    longtime lurk says:

    @Pandemoniac: Yes, I would absolutely be happier if they investigated those issues. Although, sales of guns to drug cartels isn’t exactly some meaningless nothingburger.

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    fuckwit says:

    Some FP’er really has to create a “The Sheriff Is Near!” tag, and start using it for stories like this. I don’t care if Cole bitches about more tags, this one needs to happen.

  101. 101
    moderateindy says:

    First off, I haven’t followed F&F very closely, but did the ATF sell the guns directly. I thought that they simply allowed the guns to be purchased and then tried to track them. Either way, what the hell is the difference. Are we ignoring the obvious, that if the gun that killed the border patrol agent hadn’t been sold, the guy would have simply been shot by the same guy with a different gun? Or are we pretending that a bunch of Mexican drug cartels would just give up trying to buy weapons because one of a million spigots had just run dry?
    Seriously, how is this a scandal? The guys that want the guns have nearly unlimited funds, and will get as many weapons as they want. The fact that one of the guns was used to kill a cop is meaningless. If that particular gun hadn’t been sold, it wouldn’t have kept the shooter from having a weapon to shoot.
    Honestly, I don’t know what the purpose of the operation was. How exactly did they think they could track the guns back to heads of the cartels? And even if they did arrest someone in charge what’s the difference? The organization isn’t going to cease to exist, someone else will take over. If they did take out an entire cartel all you end up with is the other cartels fighting to fill the vacuum that was created. But there is no way that the F&F program was ever going to accomplish anything that would make a difference to anyone in this country, save for a possible show trial and good PR for pols showing how tough on crime they were.

  102. 102
    Pandemoniac says:

    @longtime lurk:

    sales of guns to drug cartels isn’t exactly some meaningless nothingburger.

    You’re right, if only Issa were investigating THAT, eh? So he isn’t hitting anything on your list nor is he looking into selling guns to drug cartels.

    There’s your nothingburger on sourdough.

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