Executive Privileges

Breaking this morning, The whole “Eric Holder/Darrell Issa Contempt of Congress” thing has been blown up by the White House citing executive privilege over Fast and Furious documents, the first time the Obama administration has resorted to the common Bush-era tactic.

President Obama asserted executive privilege over documents related to the “Fast and Furious” operation Wednesday as a House panel moved to hold Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. in contempt after he failed to hand over documents related to a congressional inquiry into the scandal.

In a letter sent to Obama late Tuesday, Holder urged Obama to exert executive privilege, because sharing internal documents with lawmakers could “have significant, damaging consequences.”

Sharing the documents “would inhibit candor of such Executive Branch deliberations in the future and significantly impair the Executive Branch’s ability to respond independently and effectively to congressional oversight,” Holder wrote to Obama.

In response, House Oversight and Government Reform Committee Chairman Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) said at the start of Wednesday’s hearing that he learned of Obama’s decision early Wednesday and said the move “falls short of any reason to delay today’s proceedings.”

In other words, Issa’s going ahead with the contempt vote anyway.  The fact of the matter is that Rep. Darrell Issa has increasingly asked for more and more documents with the intent of hounding Eric Holder and nothing has changed.  It remains a vendetta to impeach POTUS by proxy.  Five things you must know about Issa and his mad-on, from Ian Millhiser at Think Progress:

1. Issa Has No Case: Issa’s uncovered no evidence showing Holder bears any blame for the botched operations begun under George W. Bush, even though the Justice Department turned over thousands of pages of documents concerning the operations. Instead of accepting this fact, Issa has requested many more documents containing confidential information regarding ongoing law enforcement investigations, and is now threatening to hold Holder in contempt if these documents are not turned over. Holder is entirely correct to withhold these documents, however, because Justice Department documents are not subject to congressional subpoena if they would reveal “strategies and procedures that could be used by individuals seeking to evade [DOJ’s] law enforcement efforts.”

2. Reagan’s Justice Department Agreed With Holder: President Reagan’s Justice Department warned in the 1980s that the Constitution’s separation of powers prevents the kind of documents Issa is seeking from being revealed to Congress because of the risk that the legislature could “exert pressure or attempt to influence the prosecution of criminal cases.”

3. Law Enforcement Rejects Issa’s Witchhunt: Issa’s efforts to embarrass Holder are an unnecessary distraction that hinders the Department of Justice’s ability to do its real job. As an organization representing numerous senior law enforcement officials warned Issa, his efforts are “an impediment to the vigorous enforcement of violence and crime.”

4. Even Top Republicans Think Issa Goes Too Far: After Issa leaked his plans to pursue contempt charges to the media, the House Republican leadership pressured him to back off. Indeed, even House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-VA) has indicated that Issa is overreaching.

5. Issa Is Fixated On A Conspiracy Theory: Perhaps the most bizarre aspect of this affair is what Issa once suggested his investigation will uncover. In an interview with Sean Hannity, Issa claimed that the Obama administration “made a crisis” when they continued the Bush-era gunrunning operations because they wanted to “us[e] this crisis to somehow take away or limit people’s Second Amendment rights.” This accusation originates from a former militiaman who supports violent resistance to imagined government attempts to seize his guns. And it amounts to an accusation that a series of botched gun stings that begun during the Bush Administration were actually part of a secret Obama plot to release guns to Mexican drug lords, so that those guns could then be used to kill federal agents, which would then cause a national uprising in support of gun control.

 

None of this has changed with the White House now protecting Holder because Issa gave them no choice.  Holder sat down with Issa to make a deal and Issa brushed him off.  Issa will not stop until Holder resigns, or is forced to turn some sort of evidence against the President.  It’s a massive delusion Issa is under.

And now the Republicans will scream DICTATOR for a while, and then this story dies, hopefully.  But remember, it’s all about Issa’s lunatic hatred.

[UPDATE]  Judging from the comments, the wingers are so desperate it’s bordering on dousing themselves in gasoline and juggling blowtorches.

Share On Facebook
Share On Twitter
Share On Google Plus
Share On Pinterest
Share On Reddit

181 replies
  1. 1
  2. 2
    Hunter Gathers says:

    The GOPers will bitch, whine and moan about this 24/7 365. And nobody who works for a living will give a fuck.

  3. 3
    Dave says:

    Surely Fox et al. will not fail to remind everyone following this case (wingnuts) that Eric Holder is and has all this while been black black black black black black black black black black blackity black black black.

  4. 4
    Cacti says:

    @Another Halocene Human:

    In other racist news, Don’t retreat, reload! AZ radio “personality” calls Obama a monkey, says she voted for “the white guy”.

    And did so while on the phone with the former AZ Republican Party chairman.

    Like I said last night, if there’s a BJ pool on when a winger finally calls the POTUS a ni-CLANG, I’m betting on late July.

  5. 5
    Felinious Wench says:

    Issa’s an insane little bitch. And I write that as a sane big bitch who recognizes when someone cannot even put themselves in my category for radiant bitchitude.

    Seriously, we’ll have a lovely wingnut freakout in which this action combined with the order on immigration prioritization becomes a grand conspiracy for Prez Socialist Pants to take over the country from the Real Americans.

    Everyone get out the tequila to salute your wingnut friends and relatives on Facebook and e-mails and Twitter.

  6. 6
    Rick Massimo says:

    Sounds like Issa’s essentially looking for a Whitewater II. He can’t prove what he’s looking for, so he’s desperately hoping that more documents will prove somebody did something wrong somewhere somehow.

  7. 7
    Punchy says:

    Issa he going to go forward with this? Issa he gunna get any Repubs to vote in his favor? Issa he an asshole?

  8. 8
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    Sounds like the GOP has found its Whitewater for 2014-15.

  9. 9
    burnspbesq says:

    Meanwhile, on the other side of the pond, Julian Assange has again shown that he is not the smartest person in the room, by requesting political asylum from a country that has an extradition treaty with the United States.

  10. 10
    jl says:

    Issa promised the GOP everything in terms of Clinton era impeachment worthy scandals, and he has produced nothing so far. Time is running out, so he is resorting to Hail Mary passes.

    To be honest, I cannot be very sympathetic to either side, because I believe US drug and gun policies to be insane.

    I think our failed corporate media experiment has been horrible on covering this because it has focused, as always on the most trite sensationalism and partisan stereotypes in its coverage. I’ve found it very difficult to follow what parts of these gun trade programs started under Bush II versus Obama, and which administration is responsible for what mess ups. I have been so desperate for information, I have had to resort to (horrors!) miserable lefty, and nerdy wonky, blogs.

  11. 11
    Caz says:

    A border patrol agent was killed, and hundreds of guns were let go across the border without appropriate monitoring. I hope we all want to see this investigated to find out what exactly happened, why, and to ensure it doesn’t happen again. Also, if one or more persons are responsible, they should held accountable. That is what the investigation is about.

    In the past year, the committee has requested information from the DOJ. DOJ admits there are upwards of 140,000 documents on point. To date, they have provided the committee only 8,000. That’s like 5%. You think that’s responsive? Holder and DOJ have stonewalled, lied, and frustrated the committee’s investigation.

    In the 11th hour, Obama invoked executive privilege, which requires specificity as to what is being claimed and why. Obama’s letter didn’t contain this specificity, so it’s not even a proper invocation. In any event, if anyone thinks it’s anything more than an attempt to protect Holder for political reasons, they are woefully naive. Where was this privilege over the last year?

    It’s as if you have no desire for truth, reality, facts, or accountability, but merely are interested in protecting members of your party at any expense, even that of the nation.

    I’m sure that if the roles were reversed, the repubs would be doing the same thing. Both parties are equally corrupt. But I know of no other way than for both parties, when at fault, to be investigated and held accountable. In this case, it’s the dems who are in charge and screwed up. Maybe next time it will be the repubs. And I’ll call equally for them to be held accountable.

    A border patrol agent is dead because of DOJ’s actions and inactions, and the fact that you are acting purely politically (and based on your own ignorance and bias) is a slap in the face of the deceased’s family. You should be ashamed of yourself!

    It’s people like you that are assisting the corruption and incompetence in govt that is ruining this nation. Have some integrity, honesty, and courage and stand up for what’s right and not merely for your party. It’s disgusting, and for your sake, I hope it’s merely because you are misinformed by the media, because if you are well informed about the matter, then your actions in defending Obama and Holder and attacking Issa and the committee are shameful and nauseating!

    I would like you to stand in front of Brian Terry’s family and tell them that you think the fast and furious situation should not be investigated and that we should just ignore it and move on, because the risk of a high-ranking democrat being held accountable is far worse than Brian Terry’s death.

    Gutless POS!

  12. 12
    Chris says:

    And now the Republicans will scream DICTATOR for a while, and then this story dies, hopefully. But remember, it’s all about Issa’s lunatic hatred.

    Dress rehearsal for the Obama impeachment that will come should the man have the impudence to win another election?

  13. 13
    General Stuck says:

    I think it is obvious that these dumbass programs should have never been done, under Bush and Obama administrations. Selling guns to Mexican drug cartels was always going to end up being used against innocent folks. Not just internal to the cartels killing each other.

    I think it is a valid criticism that the Holder DOJ, continued “Wide Receiver” under Bush that morphed into “Fast and Furious”. Holder has admitted as much, and halted the programs, fired the USA, and took personnel action withing the AZ ATF.

    I would be more sympathetic to finding out more on what happened, if the republicans were not fixated on bringing down Holder, and ultimately the Obama administration. As they have refused to consider what happened when the programs first started under the Bush administration. The only possible dirt they are looking for, is evidence that Holder lied to them about not knowing the details earlier than he said. Otherwise, he has acted with prudence for decisively stopping the gun walking.

    But it was a program conceived by the Bush administration, and entrenched as policy in the local ATF and USA office. So it is very plausible, if not likely that those folks didn’t want DC and the new administration to be fully informed at what they’d been up to. Especially, as they wanted to continue it.

    Their sole focus on finding dirt on Holder, is pure political, when they are not willing to look at the Bush DOJ. And Holder and Obama have offered, even with the executive privilege, to sit down and work this out.

  14. 14
    Keith says:

    Also, keep in mind that the ability to invoke exec privilege has already been litigated when Dick Cheney decided to have closed door meetings with energy executives. Cheney won.

    Which also leads me to the leak investigation whereby McCain et al are saying that the WH leaked classified information. This has also been settled: if the WH did leak the classified information, it is, by definition, no longer classified since the Pres (and VP) can unilaterally declassify information.

    Thanks, Mr. Cheney!

  15. 15
    Cacti says:

    @Caz:

    Argle bargle blaaaargle!

    Fascinating.

  16. 16
    BGinCHI says:

    You mean Issa the car thief and felon?

    He’s a criminal who got elected by getting rich on car alarms.

    The karma that’s headed his way is going to hurt like a bitch.

  17. 17
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    I would like to modestly propose that every post on FF should include a link to Ryan Lizza’s profile of Issa, the luckiest unindicted co-conspirator this side of the Ford administration.

  18. 18
    rikyrah says:

    FUCK ‘EM.

    Good for POTUS and the AG.

    Issa’s ass SHOULD BE IN JAIL – criminal that he is.

  19. 19
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Caz:

    Both parties are equally corrupt.

    At last, some principled centrism!

  20. 20
    Linda Featheringill says:

    @Felinious Wench: #5

    President “Socialist Pants”

    LOL! That is cute!

  21. 21
    Hill Dweller says:

    @Caz: You seem to think Issa is seeking the truth. His only goal is getting Holder to resign.

    The Inspector General is investigating(at Holder’s request) the Fast and Furious operation. Unless you have any evidence the IG is corrupt/compromised, I’m not sure what else there is to do.

  22. 22
    4tehlulz says:

    I would like you to stand in front of Brian Terry’s family…

    You first, since you obviously care for the duration of the Obama administration so deeply.

  23. 23
    redshirt says:

    Part of the “Where there’s smoke there’s fire” strategy.

    To whit: Obama Admin could be the cleanest in history, but if the Repukes make enough noise that they are corrupt (as here), the 27 Percenters Plus whomever can be influenced will buy into it and it will soon become “common knowledge”. If successful enough it can spread outside their bubble.

  24. 24
    nastybrutishntall says:

    @Caz: Gee, perhaps you could read the above link, which answers your “concerns”. But just in case your link-clicking finger has an owie, here are the most relevant bits to puncture your bullshit-balloon: 1) Issa Has No Case: Issa’s uncovered no evidence showing Holder bears any blame for the botched operations begun under George W. Bush, even though the Justice Department turned over thousands of pages of documents concerning the operations. Instead of accepting this fact, Issa has requested many more documents containing confidential information regarding ongoing law enforcement investigations, and is now threatening to hold Holder in contempt if these documents are not turned over. Holder is entirely correct to withhold these documents, however, because Justice Department documents are not subject to congressional subpoena if they would reveal “strategies and procedures that could be used by individuals seeking to evade [DOJ’s] law enforcement efforts.”

    2. Reagan’s Justice Department Agreed With Holder: President Reagan’s Justice Department warned in the 1980s that the Constitution’s separation of powers prevents the kind of documents Issa is seeking from being revealed to Congress because of the risk that the legislature could “exert pressure or attempt to influence the prosecution of criminal cases.”

    Or, is it that perhaps, like Issa, you aren’t here to find the truth?

  25. 25
    Caz says:

    @Dave: What the hell does Holder being black have to do with this?? Are you that stupid and/or dishonest that all blacks in govt are above reproach to you by virtue of their skin color?

    Holder perhaps fucked up, and if so, he should be held accountable. It doesn’t matter what color his skin is. Blacks fuck up as much as whites, and blacks should be held accountable just like whites.

    Why is it that anytime a black person screws up, any effort to hold them accountable is racist. Do you think blacks don’t screw up? Only whites screw up? Blacks are untouchable and should not be held accountable for anything?

    Have some integrity for once in your life instead of being a whining, dishonest jerk all the time.

  26. 26
    geg6 says:

    Considering that Issa himself is a piece of shit criminal and liar, he really should have no credibility.

    But the “liberal” msm never seems to mention his crimes and lies.

    Personally, I’d like to take his own bug zapper and electrocute him with it, but I’m thinking he’s more of a cockroach than a moth.

  27. 27
    Linda Featheringill says:

    I would like to see Issa hold the contempt vote and not get enough votes from his own party for it to pass.

    Where can I order this and do I need money and will they accept a check?

  28. 28
    Cacti says:

    @Caz:

    Have some integrity for once in your life instead of being a whining, dishonest jerk all the time.

    Did you know that your angry tears taste so yummy and sweet?

  29. 29
    4tehlulz says:

    @Caz: y so sensitive?

  30. 30
    Chyron HR says:

    @Caz:

    Gee, you hold one Tea Party rally where people scream “LYNCH HOLDER!” and everyone automatically assumes you’re racist. How unfair.

  31. 31
    Rob in CT says:

    Partisan witchhunt it is, sure.

    But this isn’t a sex scandal. This is an investigation into something substantive, and people died.

    Issa seems to be a grade-A asshole. I accept that. Fine.

    But I’d rather the Dems didn’t hide. Turn over all the documents, and fight fire with fire (there should be Bush-era idiocy in there, since the program pre-dates the Obama Administration).

  32. 32
    jl says:

    @redshirt: I don’t think it will be that easy to make the partisan and hack Issa/GOP narrative that successful. There is a soundbite response: program and its problems started under Dub, and both administration share responsibility for the resulting tragedies.

    So, another mess started by Dub. Not a hard sell.

    I think will result in ambiguous partisan trench warfare that will not overwhelm more direct and pressing concerns for most people, like the economy and best economic policy.

  33. 33
    Cassidy says:

    @Caz: DAMN! Troll trifecta!

    It’s as if you have no desire for truth, reality, facts, or accountability, but merely are interested in protecting members of your party at any expense, even that of the nation…

    Both parties are equally corrupt…

    a slap in the face

  34. 34
    Brachiator says:

    Breaking this morning, The whole “Eric Holder/Darrell Issa Contempt of Congress” thing has been blown up by the White House citing executive privilege over Fast and Furious documents, the first time the Obama administration has resorted to the common Bush-era tactic

    A misleading summary. Issa is knowingly violating accepted rules and procedures in order to try to invoke some impeachment action.

    I think it is a valid criticism that the Holder DOJ, continued “Wide Receiver” under Bush that morphed into “Fast and Furious”. Holder has admitted as much, and halted the programs, fired the USA, and took personnel action withing the AZ ATF.

    Yep.

  35. 35
    Dave says:

    @Caz: Fuck you.

  36. 36
    Cacti says:

    @Rob in CT:

    But I’d rather the Dems didn’t hide cooperate with a bad-faith investigation whose motives are entirely political.

    Your concern is duly noted.

  37. 37

    There is absolutely NOTHING that Darrell Issa does that is not political. 100%. He’s staging these “congressional field hearings” all around the country in Republican districts, the one in Tennessee Monday was basically a campaign event for embattled Rep. Scott Desjarlais where the “testimony” was nothing but GOP talking points taken straight from a Frank Luntz press release.

  38. 38
    lacp says:

    @Rob in CT: I’m not sure that’s exactly true. There could be a substantive investigation, but it sure as shit isn’t going to be one run by Darrell Fucking Issa.

  39. 39
    biff diggerence says:

    Issa must not have gotten the memo that indicates 88% of the Republic is in Contempt of Congress.

  40. 40

    @Caz:
    Yes, it should be investigated. By Law Enforcement.

    Not Congress. Issa’s an ass.

  41. 41
    Hill Dweller says:

    Again, the IG, who is far more credible than Issa, is doing an investigation.

    Holder has given them thousands of documents. Issa keeps widening the scope in hopes of both Holder and the WH turning him down. Then he can scream conspiracy.

  42. 42
    Punchy says:

    Also, keep in mind that the ability to invoke exec privilege has already been litigated when Dick Cheney decided to have closed door meetings with energy executives. Cheney won.

    Ha ha! It was litigated with a Republican in office, about a Republican, by a Republican SCOTUS. It’s quite funny to think they’ll decide this the same way with Obama in office.

  43. 43
    mclaren says:

    So what you’re saying here is that once again Barack Obama’s White House is pursuing deeply discredited Reagan/Bush 43 policies that pushed us to the brink of an imperial police state.

    Thanks. I’ve been pointing that our for years now, and ignorant cranks on this blog have been giggling and snickering.

    Now maybe they’ll start to get a clue.

  44. 44
    4tehlulz says:

    @Rob in CT: I agree. The best way to end a fishing expedition is to pre-emptively bite the hook, and to ensure your purity of intent, you should do it when there’s no bait.

  45. 45
    David Hunt says:

    But remember, it’s all about Issa’s lunatic hatred.

    I’m not sure that I agree with this. My impression of Issa has always been that he’s a mendacious twit* who is cynically using the power of his position to hound the Administration hoping that some of the crud that he throws against the wall will stick. I think the crazy conspiracy theory is for the rubes. He wouldn’t be spouting that if he had anything even remotely more believable, but that’s the kind of nonsense that he’s stuck with. I just thank the FSM that he’s not claiming that Obama teamed up with Reverend Wright to murder Vince Foster.

    If Issa wasn’t such a toad, I might almost feel sorry for him. He picked up his little gavel thinking that he’d recreate the Clinton Whitewater days, with new bizarre stories about the President coming to light several times per week and reporters giving him free publicity pestering him with questions. The dumb fuck just didn’t realize in his gut that he was going up against the Jackie Robinson of the U.S. Presidency.

    ** “twit” should be spelled with an “a” instead of an “i” but I wasn’t sure that wordpress would let that through.

  46. 46
    Hill Dweller says:

    @mclaren: Do you honestly think this Fast and Furious operation would even make it to the President’s desk?

  47. 47
    middlewest says:

    What’s not being reported is how many democrats all over the country are receiving the same treatment. All of the staffers I know for state-level dems here in MN have been receiving harassing document requests and frivolous legal challenges from repukes for years, costing the taxpayers a mint in wasted time and resources. Of course, the only real scandals we have are on the teabag side.

  48. 48
    DCLaw1 says:

    Issa’s GOP colleagues are right to tell him to cool it. This will get no traction (outside the beltway chattering Heathers) and will only serve to distract from Romney’s generic, economy-sucks narrative.

    Plus, Obama is not seen as corrupt by most people. This does nothing to reinforce already-existing beliefs (excluding those who will never vote for Obama anyway).

  49. 49

    @Cacti: I’m in for August 14.

    And the latest Issa chapter of hatred expressed by a ridiculous investigation(though who better to know about crime, LOL)marks the limit of my outrage fatigue. They have simply lost their collective minds over a President who is near.

    Thus I may be away for a bit, as I no longer trust myself to comment rationally. Or to read news without a blood pressure spike. Kthxbai.

  50. 50
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Rob in CT: I wish I had your faith in humanity. Climategate (and all the related FOIA nuisance requests) and the Birthers have pretty much destroyed my ability to agree with you.

  51. 51
    Caz says:

    (1) Do you think anyone should be held accountable for Brian Terry’s death, along with the deaths of countless Mexican citizens gunned down with these weapons?

    (2) If so, who?

    (3) If you’re not sure who is responsible, how would you suggest we find out who is responsible and should be held accountable?

    (4) Who has Eric Holder held responsible or accountable? Not one person has been fired over this.

    (5) This has nothing to do with party affiliation. It has to do with integrity, truth, and character. Few in either party deserve much respect, but we, as citizens, ought to be interested in holding responsible persons accountable, regardless of party.

    (6) It’s a slap in the face to Terry’s family and all of us that our elected leaders are so dishonest, lacking in integrity and character, and disrespectful to the rule of law. If any of you are satsified with how they are treating this nation and it’s principles of truth, justice, and freedom, then you should be ashamed of yourself. Why any of you feel so loyal to these assholes is beyond me. They are using you and taking advantage of your lack of character. Stand up for what’s right and fuck all about which party the responsible persons have aligned themselves with. If we aren’t going to demand honesty and integrity from our leaders, then how do you expect this nation to survive, let alone succeed?

    They are the corrupt politicians; you all are the American people – act like it!

  52. 52
    Chyron HR says:

    @mclaren:

    So what you’re saying here is that once again you’re marching in lockstep with the Republican party, but it’s okay because you’re doing it “from the left”?

    Thanks. We’ve been pointing that out for years now.

  53. 53
    Cassidy says:

    SHorter caz: SLAP IN THE FACE!!!! SLAP IN THE FACE!!!! BOATH SIDES DO IT< BUT I ONLY SPEAK UP WHEN THE NI-(CLANG) IS IN OFFICE, JUST LIKE MCLAREN!!!! SLAP IN THE FACE!!!

  54. 54
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Caz: I totally agree. And I think we should investigate this right after we find out where those WMDs went.

  55. 55
    Hill Dweller says:

    @Caz: You don’t give a shit about Terry’s family. In fact, your using his death as a rationalization for a partisan tantrum is offensive.

  56. 56
    Zandar says:

    @Caz:

    1) Yes.

    2) Michael Mukasey.

    3) We know he was responsible.

    4) He stopped Mukasey’s programs. Some heads should probably still roll at the ground level.

    5) You’re not actually advocating that, judging from your previous TEXT BLOCKS OF YELLING.

    6) If Terry’s death is the bar, then you must really be irate with the Republicans, even more than the Democrats. Welcome aboard.

  57. 57
    biff diggerence says:

    Do you think anyone should be held accountable for Brian Terry’s death, along with the deaths of countless Mexican citizens gunned down with these weapons?

    Get in line.

    No one has been held accountable for 4000 Iraq War casualties.

    The Border Oinker’s family will also have to wait.

  58. 58
    Caz says:

    @Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God: Well excuse me if I don’t trust the DOJ to investigate the DOJ. What law enforcement agency do you think will be able to properly and without bias investigate the top law enforcement agency in the nation? That is what the House Oversight Committee is designed for. In fact, they are the only entity willing to investigate this. Nothing is stopping any law enforcement agency from investigating this, but if you really think some police department can adequately investigate this, you’re dreaming. The DOJ would eat any law enforcement agency for breakfast without skipping a beat.

    And no national-level law enforcement will investigate it because they are all led by democrats, and neither repubs nor dems will investigate themselves. Again, both parties are corrupt, so it’s important that the non-offending party investigate the offending party in times like this, otherwise no one will ever be held accountable for anything.

    It doesn’t sound like you’ve thought this out very deeply.

  59. 59
    butler says:

    (3) If you’re not sure who is responsible, how would you suggest we find out who is responsible and should be held accountable?

    By having a real investigation (like the one the IG is currently conducting), instead of a politically motivated witch hunt.

    Might be a good place to start.

  60. 60

    Holder sat down with Issa to make a deal and Issa brushed him off. Issa will not stop until Holder resigns, or is forced to turn some sort of evidence against the President.

    BS.
    Holder offered to let Issa see document of his choosing and give him a briefing if Issa would completely drop the Congressional Investigation.
    Can you explain why Obama invoked Executive Privilege over ( as the progressive talking point goes) a flawed LOCAL ATF Operation

  61. 61
    Dave says:

    @Caz: “truth, justice, and freedom,” LOL. As if border patrol / the DEA have anything to do with any of those.

  62. 62
    Zandar says:

    @WWStBreitbartD:

    Ask Bush, asshole.

  63. 63
    Chris says:

    @Caz:

    Well excuse me if I don’t trust the DOJ to investigate the DOJ. What law enforcement agency do you think will be able to properly and without bias investigate the top law enforcement agency in the nation?

    Ohhhhhhhhhhh, but you DO expect the House Oversight Committee to be able to investigate this “properly” and “without bias.” You fucking troll.

  64. 64

    This is about the election.

    Holder’s DoJ has been more aggressive in going after Red State voter suppression/purge efforts (among other civil rights violations) than Issa and the rest of GOP would like. This is of course unacceptable.

    Game this out: The AG is the only real threat to their plans at this point. Shame Holder into resigning, filibuster every AG replacement nominee for as long as Obama is President, and the DoJ is effectively neutralized. So the election can be stolen, as scheduled.

    Barring a resignation, if the GOP can poison the public perception of AG Holder to make him (and his department) less effective in fighting their corruption, that’ll do. Good fodder for the Talk Radio Turnips.

    In other words, a direct attack on the rule of law, to make a certain election outcome more likely.

    Please ponder just how disgusting this is.

  65. 65
  66. 66
    Mnemosyne says:

    @mclaren:

    So what you’re saying here is that once again Barack Obama’s White House is pursuing deeply discredited Reagan/Bush 43 policies that pushed us to the brink of an imperial police state halted a Bush-era operation that wasn’t working.

    Fix’d for your reading comprehension problems. What part of “Holder ended the operation and started an internal investigation” was confusing to you?

  67. 67
    Hill Dweller says:

    @WWStBreitbartD: Why is Issa asking the WH for documents, when there is no evidence Obama was involved in this? Did he do it knowing the WH would say no?

  68. 68
    marduk says:

    @Caz: The IG is investigating, at Holder’s request, in order to answer your questions.

    Why is this so hard to for you to understand?

    It’s quite obvious that this is so hard for you to understand because YOU DON’T CARE about the answers. You only care about doing political damage to the Obama administration, by any means necessary. The fact that there is a credible and, more importantly, non-political investigation ongoing means nothing to you because there’s no guarantee political benefit will accrue to your favored party as a result.

  69. 69

    @Caz:

    Well excuse me if I don’t trust the DOJ to investigate the DOJ.

    The OIG reports to both the AG and Congress. Why isn’t Issa talking to the IG if he’s so very, very concerned?

    So, excuse me while I ignore the rest of your blatantly partisan bullshytt.

    It doesn’t sound like you’ve thought this out very deeply.

    ..says the little dog, as he barks for his Masters.

  70. 70
    nastybrutishntall says:

    Trolls are out big today here and at ORNG STN. I guess this is the newest GOP Weapon of Mass distraction. I give it 2 weeks max before everyone remembers Romney is still a dick and Obama knows his ass from his elbow.

  71. 71
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Caz:

    That is what the House Oversight Committee is designed for.

    That’s what it’s designed for but, as with so many things Republicans have been put in charge of, they have hopelessly broken the Committee and made it impossible for it to honestly investigate anything.

    If there were actually people in charge of the committee who were interested in anything other than scoring political points and neutralizing the DOJ’s investigations of Republican voter suppression schemes, I might agree with you, but you seem completely unaware that Darrell Issa is a political hack who doesn’t give a shit about Brian Terry except as a pawn in Issa’s attempts to advance his own political career. Vin Diesel would do a better job investigating Fast and Furious than Issa would.

  72. 72
    gene108 says:

    Everything that GOP does is aimed at keeping the wing-nut base engaged and enraged.

    If the wing-nuts were ever allowed to calm down, i.e. no new Democrat/Liberal/Obama outrage revealed this week, they’d be less likely to show up to the polls in November.

    Republican election strategy has been for awhile not to appeal to people’s interests, but rather to make sure their guys are so agitated come November that more of their voters head to the polls than ours.

    Despite Kerry having leads over Bush, Jr. in 2004, with respect to where voters viewed them on the issues, Rove realized it doesn’t matter what people think, it only matters about how well you can mobilize your supporters to vote.

    Thus we had gay marriage banning ballot measures all over the place in 2004, so socially conservative folks would be doubly sure to get off their behinds and vote for Bush, Jr.

  73. 73
    Chris says:

    @gene108:

    Everything that GOP does is aimed at keeping the wing-nut base engaged and enraged.

    If the wing-nuts were ever allowed to calm down, i.e. no new Democrat/Liberal/Obama outrage revealed this week, they’d be less likely to show up to the polls in November.

    Every now and then, I wonder how they survive. Doesn’t that much rage just get exhausting after a while?

  74. 74
    biff diggerence says:

    That is what the House Oversight Committee is designed for.

    Yes. The same Committee that organized the Presidential Pee Pee Posse of 1998.

  75. 75
    Scott S. says:

    Let’s hope the feds are keeping a watch on who Issa is contacting. It’s a sure bet he’s sending classified documents about ongoing investigations to the people responsible for the crimes.

    Ya gotta remember where his loyalty is — not to Congress, not to justice, not to America. He’s got friends planning on blowing up buildings, and Issa wants to make sure they’re protected.

  76. 76
    KG says:

    @Caz: well, since everyone else is playing along…

    1. Yes.

    2. Whoever pulled the trigger (if it wasn’t a gun from the sting operation it would have been another gun)

    3. An investigation, which requires real police work, not congressional hearings

    4. The program has been stopped (as noted above), and my guess is people have been fired over it, though no big public announcement was made because, well, the Obama Administration doesn’t seem to be gigantic Drama Queens like the last couple of administrations

    5. So then, you feel the same way about the Yoo torture memos? Or the intel that got us into Iraq? (sidenote: I thought there were plenty of other legal reasons to go into Iraq, including Iraqi failure to abide by the cease fire from the first Gulf War, that doesn’t mean it was good policy) Or maybe we should look at the no-bid contracts to Blackwater and other companies with ties to Cheney?

    6. Yeah, slap in the face… so where were you on all the other stuff I mentioned? Or the joke that is TSA? Or the creation of “free speech zones” tucked far away from where powerful people are?

    Don’t get me wrong… I’m one bad day away from being on Doomsday Preppers at this point, but the shitshow has been playing on for a long ass while now; and at this point all we can do is hope that when the walls come tumbling down that it’s the Starks and not the Lannisters that win.

  77. 77

    @Zandar:
    Here is video of Eric Holder saying Fast and Furious and Wide Receiver are not the same.

    @Hill Dweller:
    Issa asking DOJ for documents. Invoking Executive privilege now proves Obama is involved with Fast and Furious.

  78. 78
    Caz says:

    @nastybrutishntall: How is Issa expected to uncover anything when the DOJ stonewalls and refuses to turn over 95% of relevant documents? Of course he hasn’t uncovered anything – that’s the point, he’s trying to uncover the truth but hasn’t been given any docs to look at to uncover anything.

    This has nothing to do with Reagan, Bush, or any other prior president. The ol’ “they did it first,” “both sides do it,” and “well this dude supports such and such” are all irrelevant to this.

    The Think Progress blog is a pathetic, dishonest, obviously biased and worthless read. I mean, if you buy what Think Progress is selling here, then you’re either a lying POS yourself, you’re brainwashed by the media propaganda, or just ignorant about the facts of the case so far.

    DOJ has, for nearly a year, refused to turn over 95% of relevant materials to the committee.

    Surely you think this situation, which led to the death of Brian Terry, should be investigated. And if so, then how do you propose that happen?? This committee is the only entity willing and able to investigate it, and they have been unable to obtain virtually any documents or cooperationf from the DOJ.

    Try putting truth and justice above your loyalty to political assholes in Congress who couldn’t give two shits about you. You’re like a dog that is beaten daily and you still run loyally to your master for the next round of orders.

    Grow some balls and stand up for what’s right and to hell what whatever party the real assholes in any given situation are part of.

    And you honestly can’t draw conclusions about Issa’s motives until he has some evidence to review and then decides to take some action. So far, he hasn’t been provided anything to evaluate, so he’s finally decided to have a vote on Holder’s contempt. When a high-ranking govt official overseeing an agency that let guns walk leading to the death of an American refuses to cooperate with a proper investigation, he should be held in contempt. Regardless of whether he’s R or D, black or white.

    This needs to be investigated, and whoever is responsible should be held accountable. DOJ is not cooperating with the investigation. What else do you need to know? Maybe Holder is responsible, maybe he’s not – how the hell does anyone know until the other 95% of relevant documents are turned over for evaluation??

    You all want to complain about Issa, but does anyone actually have the gall to say that we should just ignore what happened and just move on without looking into what happened??

    Some of you must know how full of shit and lacking in integrity you are on this. I know it’s hard to put your party loyalty aside, but when your party leaders are as corrupt as they are, then your loyalty is shameful and pathetic. You think any of these guys you are defending would waste one second of their day to protect or defend you?? Not a chance in hell. They’d sell you out without thinking twice, and yet you’re selling out your own integrity to defend them.

    If we as American citizens don’t hold our leaders accountable, what hope is there for this country? You are basically sending a message to them that their corruption is welcomed and even when their actions result in the death of good American citizens, you don’t care about looking into it or holding anyone accountable.

    I mean, it’s gotten so bad that the president has the idea that he can kill American citizens in his sole discretion without any regard for due process or the constitution. How are any of you ok with what’s going on in our govt today???

  79. 79
    General Stuck says:

    Any and all documents that are released by most federal law enforcement agencies, must be cleared by the agency IG, who ultimately decides what can and can’t be released. What falls under deliberative internal communications, are about always exempted. The Bush administration shortened this process, by simply telling the dem congress to go fuck themselves with Harry Reid’s dick, on about any request for info beyond the WH soup of the day.

    So It shouldn’t be surprising that republicans think IG’s are working for their exec branch masters, because they do for the GOP, though they are legally not supposed to. Whatever, listening to the nutters now scream about ‘coverup’ is like the wolves joining up for the neighbored watch program at Animal Farm.

    taking a short break from this insanity, to save some brain cells for the stretch run, so see youze later alligators.

  80. 80
    jl says:

    Issa is the desperate one here, in both senses of the word.

    There was supposed to be some serious impeachment cred or at least an established ‘most corrupt admin evah’ cred going on by now, and Issa produced nothing.

    Could be, what Issa claimed was not true, or Issa is incompetent and corrupt himself, or both.

    But Issa is the one that needs to ‘produce’. They say crisis creates opportunities, so let us see how well Issa meets the challenge.

    The probability that useful information about what actually happened will come of anything Issa suggests or plans is close to zero though, unless Issa totally messes up, probability of which is not zero.

  81. 81
    lacp says:

    @Caz: You can count on me! I stand with Darrell Issa, America’s Last Honest Man!

  82. 82
    KG says:

    @Chris: yeah, but watch what happens if someone says that Bush v Gore was the right decision

  83. 83
    Brachiator says:

    @Chris:

    Every now and then, I wonder how they survive. Doesn’t that much rage just get exhausting after a while?

    No.

  84. 84
    Insomniac says:

    @WWStBreitbartD:

    Invoking Executive privilege now proves Obama is involved with Fast and Furious.

    This is truly stupid. I mean megafucktons of stupid. How does one thing prove the other? Do you even know what Executive Privilege even means/entails? Twit.

  85. 85
    Maude says:

    The WH isn’t protecting Holder with Executive Privilege, it asserting Executive power that is equal to Congress.

  86. 86
    jl says:

    @Caz:

    “you honestly can’t draw conclusions about Issa’s motives”

    Doesn’t pass the laugh test. You have to do better than that.

  87. 87
    Brachiator says:

    @Caz:

    What else do you need to know? Maybe Holder is responsible, maybe he’s not – how the hell does anyone know until the other 95% of relevant documents are turned over for evaluation??

    Yawn. Why do you waste your time?

    “Evaluation” by Issa is not the same thing as investigation.

    It’s got nothing to do with party loyalty.

  88. 88
    Caz says:

    @KG: “my guess is people have been fired over it.” That’s your guess, eh?? LOL. Guess again.

    Try ignoring the R or D in front of these corrupt assholes’ names and then honestly looking at this from an objective point of view.

    People SHOULD be fired over this. Holder promoted some people moved them to Washington and out of the line of fire. Your guess is wrong, but I’m sure you don’t really care, as long as your boys Holder and Obama can stay above the fray you’ll let them do whatever they want because, hey, they are democrats and I’m a democrat, so we’re like friends and fraternity brothers from college.

    They are corrupt, lying scumbags, while you are a member of the American public. The only things you have in common with them is the letter D and that you are both lying. But you can do something about the lying if you want to.

    Why is it so hard to find fault with someone from your party? It’s not like Issa is going after your mom or your children. It’s a fucking attorney general, a political appointee who doesn’t give a shit about anyone except himself and his own power struggle.

    It’s not worth it to be part of either party these days – both are so corrupt and full of shit that I’d be ashamed to align myself with any of them, not Holder, Obama, Issa, Grassley, any of them.

    I think Justin Amash from Michigan might be the only elected official in D.C. with any integrity at all!

  89. 89
    Culture of Truth says:

    Boehner: The decision to exert executive privilege “implies that White House officials were either involved in the Fast and Furious operation or the cover-up that followed”

  90. 90
    Valdivia says:

    wow this thread is all pie!

  91. 91
    Commenting at Balloon Juice since 1937 says:

    @Zandar: This all assumes the shooter would never have gotten a gun from somewhere else, therefore Eric Holder is personally responsible.

  92. 92
    Chris says:

    @Caz:

    This needs to be investigated

    As has already been pointed out to you half a gajillion times, it IS being investigated. By people who actually do this for a living. If you don’t give a shit because you think Issa and only Issa can or should investigate this, that’s your problem.

    Next question.

  93. 93
    Chris says:

    @Caz:

    as long as your boys Holder and Obama

    … anyone else wanna take this?

  94. 94
    NancyDarling says:

    I haven’t read the thread, so someone may have covered this. George W. invoked executive privilege several times. Once to prevent us from finding out which oil barons met with Darth Cheney in the early months of the administration. Once to prevent “Turdblossom” from having to testify to a committee regarding fired federal prosecutors. Once to avoid releasing documents regarding Pat Tillman’s death by friendly fire. I can’t remember the others, but I bet one or two had something to do with the run-up to September 11th and what intelligence agencies were saying.

    I recall not even a mild harrumph from righties over these invocations—but maybe I missed it.

    Clinton invoked it over a dozen times. I don’t remember the reasons, but perhaps it was because he was playing Jean Valjean to Starr’s Javert.

    I recommend we all buy smelling salts futures. There is going to be a lot of fainting and pearl clutching from the loons in the next 5 months.

  95. 95
    Culture of Truth says:

    @Caz: They’re all corrupt criminals! Except for my guy! He totally has integrity!

  96. 96
    Culture of Truth says:

    Privilege Claims:
    Clinton – 14
    Bush – 6
    Obama – 1

  97. 97
    Bubblegum Tate says:

    @Dave:

    Surely Fox et al. will not fail to remind everyone following this case (wingnuts) that Eric Holder is and has all this while been black black black black black black black black black black blackity black black black.

    Did you know that Eric Holder has gone on the record as saying he refuses to prosecute any black-on-white crime?* It’s true–the people who’ve been screaming that Fast & Furious was all an elaborate plot to nullify the Second Amendment told me so!

    (* Here in the real world, what they’re referring to is the lack of prosecution of those black guys holding batons at the Philly polling place)

  98. 98
    Caz says:

    @Mnemosyne: I’m well aware that Issa and the rest of them are political hacks, but until you people start voting for people with integrity, then we have to deal with all these political hacks investigating other political hacks.

    We’re stuck with an entire DOJ, administration, and oversight committee riddled with political hacks, so that’s who the jobs fall to. In this case, the investigation falls to the oversight committee, run by hacks from the R party investigating hacks from the D party.

    So it will be far from perfect, but I for one want to see what documents the DOJ has so I can decide for myself who is most to blame. Holder is the hack who won’t cooperate with hack Issa, leaving us in the dark as to which hacks are truly to blame. So I’m fine with hack Issa holding hack Holder in contempt for failing to cooperate with hack oversight committee.

    I want the documents so I can reach my own conclusion. Aren’t any of you interested in seeing what the DOJ has so you can find out who’s to blame? Or maybe just to bolster your support of Holder?

    Let’s get the docs out of hack Holder’s hands so we can see wtf is going on!

    It’s not about politics with me, it’s about truth. But when the hacks don’t cooperate so I can find out the truth, it pisses me off. I am stuck with hack Issa being in charge, so I’ll support his efforts to get the documents so I can reach my own conclusion.

    And hack Obama and his bullshit executive privilege in the 11th hour is so transparently pathetic. He could have invoked this a year ago, why did he wait until the eve of a contempt hearing?? It should be obvious why, but none of you has the balls to admit it.

    It’s bad enough we have to deal with all these R and D hacks in Congress, at least you all could have some decency and hold hacks from whichever party accountable for their dishonesty and incompetence!

  99. 99
    prettyfoot says:

    @Linda Featheringill: HAHAHAHA…they only accept cash!

  100. 100
    burnspbesq says:

    @Caz:

    I would like you to stand in front of Brian Terry’s family and tell them that you think the fast and furious situation should not be investigated

    No one is suggesting that there should be no investigation. However, it appears that you are unable to distinguish between a real investigation and a politically motivated witch-hunt that is a blatant abuse of Congress’ investigative authority. Some of us are capable of making that distinction.

  101. 101
    nastybrutishntall says:

    @Caz: Terry was shot with a gun. A person used that gun. Where the gun came from doesn’t matter, since any gun would have killed Terry. The program that made that particular gun the gun in question is over in any case. Everything else is noise you are either being paid to make, or comes out of you involuntarily due to cerebral defects.

  102. 102
    LGRooney says:

    Who let the Breitbot’s out of Mom’s cellar? While whack-a-mole is fun, don’t you feel sorry for the moles at some point? Or, are you feeding the varmints just to show they’re trapped in a logical hamster wheel a/o will ultimately arrive at their final destination of ni-CLANG!!

  103. 103
    LGRooney says:

    @SatanicPanic: Your name seems oddly appropriate for this troll-infested thread.

  104. 104

    @mclaren:
    Thank you for bringing this up! It bears discussing occasionally exactly why the things Bush did were abominable, and why people like Mclaren are being dishonest by trying to make the ‘same as Bush’ comparison. Too many lies and false narratives float around, and they need to be debunked for those who hear them unchallenged.

    Context is always crucial. Bush’s actions were contemptible, even illegal because he used already existing presidential powers in ways that they were never meant to be used, sometimes directly in opposition to how they were meant to be used. This is a perfect case. Bush used executive privilege to prevent investigation of whether his administration specifically engaged in corrupt or illegal practices like using the DOJ to hound political opponents, or allow energy companies to set the policies that regulate them by direct negotiation with the Vice President. The intended use of executive privilege (which is as old as the US itself!) is to prevent the executive from having to reveal information that would spoil or endanger ongoing law enforcement operations. Which is, of course, exactly what’s happening here. Both Bush and Obama have used executive privilege, as have a lot of other presidents (George Washington, anyone?) Bush used it in a blatantly illegal, corrupt fashion. Obama has used it correctly, pushed to it by a fishing campaign by a man who has sworn to keep harassing him until he finds something, anything to start an impeachment hearing about.

    In the same vein (I’m running long and trying to summarize now), there are legal contexts in which the executive uses ‘state secrets’ in court, and always has. Obama follows them, Bush used them in blanket ways to prevent his law interpretations from being litigated. Law enforcement wiretaps, and always has. Bush refused to follow the system in place so he could wiretap whoever he wanted secretly. Obama follows the system in place. It was always ignoring the system to wiretap that was Bush’s crime.

    So, for those of you new to this subject, when people like Mclaren spout this crap at you and you’re worried that they seem to have some facts on their side, this is why they actually don’t. They’re arguing that the Sahara is the rain forest of Brazil because, hey, there are bugs in both.

  105. 105
    LAC says:

    @Caz: Do the words “pot”, “kettle”, “fuck off” mean anything to you? Or are the crocodile tears you are trying to form for (insert name of agent you had to look up real quick) causing a problem? Issa is vindictive tool who is going too far even fo his douchebag party. If he was serious and not the patron saint of assholes, the offer given would have been taken.

  106. 106
    Caz says:

    @NancyDarling: Again, this has nothing to do with Clinton, Bush, Reagan, or any other prior president. It has to do with Obama’s executive privilege in this case, and it’s obviously bullshit. He didn’t provide any specificity, which is required when a president invokes this privilege. That some prior president also did it incorrectly or dishonestly or for political reasons is irrelevant. I’m sure there have been plenty of corrupt politicians in the past, but that doesn’t mean the current slew of corrupt idiots is off the hook!

    This investigation has been going on for a year – Obama could have invoked privilege with specificity long ago. He did it on the eve of the contempt hearing without any specificity.

    Are you all truly satisfied with this type of conduct by our president?? I mean, he’s the freakin president, he should have some decency and respect for the rule of law! But then again, this is the first president in history who claims the right to summarily execute American citizens in his sole discretion, and to hell with the constitution and due process which citizens are entitled to. If he’s willing to violate the right to life of Americans without regard to the constitution, then why should I trust him on his last minute privilege invocation that isn’t even in the proper form??

    Holder and Obama are full of shit and totally corrupt. That Issa might be too doesn’t mean Holder and Obama are off the hook. But Issa is the hack in charge of the investigation, so I’d like to see people cooperate with his requests for production of documents so I, myself, can see what the docs say.

    You’re all a bunch of spineless cowards. It’s bad enough we have to deal with all these corrupt hacks in our govt, at least you people as citizens can have some character and honesty. This is why our leaders take advantage of us and are so corrupt – because you all back them up…all because they have the same letter of the alphabet before their name.

    I was a registered republican but changed because I didn’t want to be associated with the corrupt lot of R’s. You all ought to consider doing the same with the D’s. If they are going to give the D party such a bad name, why would you want to be part of the party??

    Pretty much, Obama and Holder could do anything they want, like murder citizens, and you’re ok with it because you’re all from the same political party. Better wake up, people!

  107. 107
    Forum Transmitted Disease says:

    This Caz fellow seems quite concerned.

  108. 108
    NancyDarling says:

    @Caz: Settle down, Caz. Take a few deep breaths.

  109. 109
    burnspbesq says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    What part of “Holder ended the operation and started an internal investigation” was confusing to you?

    Every. Single. Word.

  110. 110
    burnspbesq says:

    @WWStBreitbartD:

    Invoking Executive privilege now proves Obama is involved with Fast and Furious.

    Step away from the bong.

  111. 111
    MikeJ says:

    @Frankensteinbeck: I really really despise comment systems that have “like” buttons or let you upvote things. But there are rare occasions when I would use those mechanisms if they existed.

  112. 112
    Yutsano says:

    @Caz:

    I want the documents so I can reach my own conclusion

    File an FOIA. You won’t see the documents otherwise. And be prepared to get denied.

  113. 113
    JWL says:

    Zandar: You know it, and I know it, and rank and file democrats know it. But democratic party officials by and large accord Issa the respect due a member of an honorable political opposition, and refuse to condemn him as the disreputable charlatan he is.

    Why is that?

  114. 114
    Ash Can says:

    @Caz: So you’re going to implicitly trust a car thief and GOP hack who was all for this program until the political party in charge changed to get to the bottom of this and clear everything up. Got it. Here’s a tip for you, sugar. You’re going to get absolutely nowhere with us here because you’re wearing your own blatant dishonesty like a pair of brightly-colored Transformers underwear on your head. Act like you have a modicum of integrity yourself, and people might start to think there’s some value to what you say other than to amuse themselves by mocking you. You’re welcome.

  115. 115

    @JWL:
    Now that Breitbart’s found a new (and IMO more productive) role as fertilizer, Issa’s the only one who can be relied upon to bring the best cocaine to Arianna’s parties.

  116. 116
    The Dangerman says:

    I’m missing something here.

    The death of this agent (Brian Terry) is a tragedy…

    …but I’ve been told for years (decades? a lifetime?) that guns don’t kill people, people kill people.

    Now, not defending this operation, which appears flawed, but don’t blame this Dude’s death on the guns.

  117. 117
    Commenting at Balloon Juice since 1937 says:

    @Caz: You’re suggesting that you’ve read the 8000 documents that have already been released to the committee. I have no idea whether they’re available for public consumption. Care to briefly summarize them?

  118. 118
    Caz says:

    @Ash Can: What have I said that leads you to believe that I’m being dishonest on this? I’m outraged that an American was killed with guns our govt let walk into the arms of foreign criminals. And I want to find out who is responsible and have them held accountable.

    It’s being investigated by Issa and the oversight committee, so I want to see them get as much evidence as possible to shed light on the above issues.

    Then I want to see whomever is responsible be fired or criminally or civilly charged, depending on how bad the conduct was.

    I am not beholden to either of the two corrupt parties. I merely want the truth and heads to roll for the death of Brian Terry.

    Obama’s executive privilege is total political bullshit. Holder’s lack of cooperation is total political self-serving bullshit. Issa is trying to oust a high-level democrat in the process of investigating, but he’s in charge so I’ll support his efforts to obtain documents. The D’s in the committee only want to protect Holder and Obama. The R’s only want to get Holder out of office.

    I want to know what happened, who’s responsible, and then I want some action against that person or persons because it’s the right thing to do for the Terry family and America.

    I just wonder how you all are so sure that Holder ISN’T responsible! It’s quite possible he knew about it, gave orders concerning it, and is totally responsible. It’s possible he really knew nothing about it until after the fact. But when someone stonewalls like that, in my experience it means he’s hiding something and is probably guilty of something. He should be open and honest and take responsibility for anything he’s done wrong.

    No one in Washington anymore has the decency to be accountable for their own actions. Obama still blames Bush for everything, the R’s blame Obama for everything, Boehner blames Reid for everything, Pelosi blames Paul Ryan, etc.

    They are all full of shit and for a change I’d like to see some heads roll for the all the fucking up that going on on our dime! We are paying for all these circuses, and it’s costing a ton. $15+ trillion in debt and nothing to show for it but many more jerkoffs in Washington and a citizenry being held hostage by the actions of these jerkoffs.

    The whole lot of them should be removed from office and Congressional salaries should be capped at $20k per year. That way, the only people that will serve are ones that really want to make a difference, not people who want to make a career out of being corrupt and getting rich doing it.

    In fact, I’ve changed my mind – the federal govt should be eliminated and states should be in charge of all govt duties from here on out. Let each governor have a single vote, and national actions need a simple majority of governors.

    And on that note, I am done with this blog for the day. It’s been real, c-ya!

  119. 119
    Mike Lamb says:

    @Caz: As if the date that Obama invoked executive privilege means shit to you. Of course he would do it prior to a contempt hearing. Up until then, the admin probably thought they could work around this without it getting to a contempt hearing. Of course, that implies some level of reasonableness on the part of the GOP. Whoops.

  120. 120
    jl says:

    @The Dangerman:

    You are missing the GOP/wingnut maxim that any attempt at any intellectual consistency at all gets in the way of whatever BS needs to be pumped out to get their way right now.

  121. 121
    Culture of Truth says:

    so I’d like to see people cooperate with his requests for production of documents

    They have, over and over and over again. Maybe the claim is sound, maybe it isn’t. But you sound like a crazy person.

  122. 122
    Chris says:

    @Caz:

    I am not beholden to either of the two corrupt parties. I merely want the truth the investigation to be conducted by Darrel Issa, because I absolutely refused to accept any conclusions from the Inspector General’s already-existing investigation and barely even acknowledge that it exists. But I’m not a partisan hack! Why won’t you belieeeeeeve me!

    Fixed that for you.

    And on that note, I am done with this blog for the day.

    We’re all shedding a tear, Caz.

  123. 123
    Culture of Truth says:

    Holder’s lack of cooperation is total political self-serving bullshit.

    You only care about the truth but you clearly have already made up your mind.

  124. 124
    Terry says:

    @Caz: “This statement — “Why is it that anytime a black person screws up, any effort to hold them accountable is racist. — is demonstrably untrue.

  125. 125
    Bubblegum Tate says:

    @burnspbesq:

    I think that’s the official wingnut talking point now–I just saw it a couple other places as well. And, of course, since this aboslutely PROVES that Obama did the whole thing, they’re already discussing how long his jail term should be. Yup.

  126. 126
    amk says:

    The concern of the troll caz for the dead mehicans is quite touching. And the faux poutrage over “honesty and integrity” is quite stunning too.

  127. 127
    Chris says:

    @Terry:

    It’s also garden variety wingnut persecution complex bullshit. But again, he’s not a partisan hack.

  128. 128
    RobinDC says:

    Holder is a terrible AG. His idea of justice has consistently been a joke, I can’t stand Issa and would prefer that Holder be laid low by a real investigation instead of a partisan witch hunt, but honestly the man has it well in coming, and not just for this shit either.

    Hard to care about this one, it might actually set some good precedent for Congress to actually do something against the presidency, especially when high level cabinet members have basically given up on doing their basic jobs, like Holder has. The problem is weighing that good precedent against the bad precedent of contemporary republicans doing this, since their touch turns everything to crap.

  129. 129
    Caz says:

    @Commenting at Balloon Juice since 1937: I haven’t read them, but I can read enough analysis and opinions from across the board and summaries of them that it’s better than not having them out there at all.

    Some knowledge about what’s in the docs is better than none, so the more that are produced the better.

    Surely if the DOJ produces 130,000 docs instead of a mere 8,000, we will all be better informed about what went on. I’d rather sift through bullshit to form an opinion than to have no bullshit at all to sift through.

    You all seem to want either a perfect solution to everything or nothing at all. We’re never going to get a perfect investigation, a perfect set of evidence, perfectly unbiased actors, perfect processes, or perfect outcomes. But I would still like to see them put forth some effort to arrive at truth and justice.

    Right now, the current political climate in D.C. is about 10% of perfect, which is better than 0%, but I think it’s reasonable to expect at least 50%. The more honest they all are and more open they are, the better off we will be as citizens.

    Corruption is a lot harder to get away with at 50% transparency than at 0%. I am totally outraged at how our govt abuses its power, and I for one want to see people held accountable for their actions and I’d like to see an effort at least to be transparent and curb the corruption and incompetence.

    Our job as citizens is to demand transparency, competence, and accountability. Unfortunately, it looks like Balloon-Juicetard Nation is not interested in any of that, but is merely interested in playing political games and supporting the D’s over the R’s in every “game” that ensues every week in Washington. It’s not a game – it’s our country, our freedom, our lives that are at stake. Balloon-Juicetard Nation’s perspective on things is not productive, honorable, honest, or unbiased.

    But I like visiting this little fantasy world of yours because it helps me appreciate the truth that much more when I see a bunch of sell-out, brainwashed, biased, partisan, hack, dishonest citizens pat each other on the back and blame all of our problems on a single political party like it’s a game of Connect Four at the bowling alley for a 7th birthday party. It’s funny, enlightening, and motivates me to not be like that, lol.

    But I’ll admit, I have been dishonest – I said I was done with this blog for the day and then continued to participate in this charade. So I apologize and take full responsibility for my actions, and I hereby resign my position as resident BJ troll of the day and hope my successor conducts himself in a more forthright, genuine manner for the good of BJ Nation.

    See, Eric H., it’s not that hard. Just admit you’re a fuck-up and get a new day job. Obama could have ended this whole thing by just firing Holder. I mean, can’t he find another corrupt, incompetent liberal to take that post? There seems to be no shortage of those running around D.C. these days. In fact, I think Joe Manchin is perhaps the only D that I have any respect for these days. There are a few R’s I have respect for, but most are RINO’s, and in reality are libertarians or tea partiers who just chose the R to get elected. Standard R’s are as bad as the D’s.

    I would give anything to have Clinton back in office after having watched Bush, Obama, and prospective Romney in action!

    Later y’all! Keep keepin’ it real. LOl!

  130. 130
    Hill Dweller says:

    @Bubblegum Tate: The Speaker of the House said the exact same thing, and he’ll pay no price in the media.

  131. 131
    Yutsano says:

    @Caz:

    And on that note, I am done with this blog for the day. It’s been real, c-ya!

    Because GBCW=WINNING!!

  132. 132
    Culture of Truth says:

    Obama could have ended this whole thing by just firing Holder.

    So all your 12-paragraph protestations were BS

  133. 133
    TenguPhule says:

    Have some integrity for once in your life instead of being a whining, dishonest jerk all the time.

    And Irony screamed in her death throes as Caz killed her.

  134. 134
    TenguPhule says:

    Surely if the DOJ produces 130,000 docs instead of a mere 8,000, we will all be better informed about what went on.

    Surely Caz and other criminals like him would love to know how to avoid detection by looking at non-related documents from the DOJ to better assess how law enforcement is working to take them down.

  135. 135
    Tim C. says:

    Concern trolls seem concerned today.

  136. 136
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @Caz: How can we miss you if you never leave?

  137. 137
    Cassidy says:

    I haven’t read them, but I can read enough analysis and opinions from across the board and summaries of them that it’s better than not having them out there at all Redstate and NRO.

    Sounds about right.

  138. 138
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Southern Beale: Isn’t Desjarlais the scumbag wife-beater? I seem to remember hearing something like that around the time of the 2010 elections but can’t remember (and now can’t find) details.

  139. 139
    NancyDarling says:

    I wish I could be as pure and righteous as caz, but reality keeps intruding.

  140. 140
    Cassidy says:

    He kept saying truth and justice. But he kept neglecting to mention Mom, Dad, apple pie, baseball, Lee Greenwood, and Big Macs. I question his committment to patriotism.

  141. 141
    TenguPhule says:

    I haven’t read them, but I can read

    Objection! Facts not in evidence!

  142. 142
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Caz:

    I’m well aware that Issa and the rest of them are political hacks, but until you people start voting for people with integrity, then we have to deal with all these political hacks investigating other political hacks.

    Dude, Issa and the rest of the idiots in charge of the House are Republicans. Unlike you, I’ve never voted for a Republican in my life. Take the log out of your own eye before you start talking about the splinter in everyone else’s.

    If you’re tired of political hacks, stop voting for Republicans. You only have yourself to blame.

  143. 143
    Vico says:

    @Chris:

    But we must understand that upstanding gentlemen like Rush and Caz don’t care what color Obama’s and Holder’s skin is. Why must they be accused of racism every time they criticize them? They reject that characterization. So long as they can keep referring to them as “boys.”

  144. 144
    Vico says:

    @Chris:

    But we must understand that upstanding gentlemen like Rush and Caz don’t care what color Obama’s and Holder’s skin is. Why must they be accused of racism every time they criticize them? They reject that characterization. So long as they can keep referring to them as “boys.”

  145. 145
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @amk: His word count is quite impressive too.

  146. 146
    Scott S. says:

    @TenguPhule: It’s important for Darrell Issa to make sure his pals with the truck bombs know what the feds know.

  147. 147
    amk says:

    Standard R’s are as bad as the D’s.

    And yet I will vote for R’s every time.

    Fucking sanctimonious lying projecting asshole.

  148. 148
    NancyDarling says:

    We are mere pikers here at BJ. The comment thread on this story is past the 22,000 mark. And no, I didn’t read any of them. Maybe caz toddled off to that web site.

  149. 149
    Forum Transmitted Disease says:

    So you’re going to implicitly trust a car thief and GOP hack who was all for this program until the political party in charge changed to get to the bottom of this and clear everything up.

    Well, he’s not black. So there’s that.

  150. 150
    Mnemosyne says:

    Darrell Issa plans hundreds of hearings:

    To give an idea of how expansive Issa’s oversight plans are, look at the record of Rep. Henry Waxman (D-Calif.) when he chaired the oversight committee during in the 110th Congress during George W. Bush’s presidency. Waxman held 203 oversight hearings in two years; Issa has signaled he’s prepared to hold about 280 in just one year.

    But, really, Issa is investigating this because he’s just so gosh-darned concerned about it, not because he’s on a giant fishing expedition to dig up anything he possibly can to neutralize the DOJ before they can put a halt to the massive voter suppression operations that Republicans are running across the country. You betcha.

  151. 151
    NancyDarling says:

    Wonkette has my favorite Darrell Issa moment when he cries like a girl—or at least a baby—after Arnold sucked all the air out of his governor aspirations. Maybe it was the 1.7 million he spent getting the recall on the ballot.

    http://wonkette.com/470892/cry.....in-history

  152. 152
    Anton Sirius says:

    @WWStBreitbartD:

    Issa asking DOJ for documents. Invoking Executive privilege now proves Obama is involved with Fast and Furious.

    Only if the documents Issa asked for had anything to do with FF directly. Which they didn’t.

    You really are quite thick, aren’t you?

  153. 153
    gene108 says:

    @Caz:

    Are you all truly satisfied with this type of conduct by our president??

    Are satisfied with Rep. Issa’s conduct?

    Has his 1 year investigation found a better way for the U.S. DOJ to better conduct operations against drug cartels?*

    *Assumes Issa’s a decent guy, who only wants to make things better for all Americans and isn’t on a witch hunt to screw the Obama Administration.

  154. 154
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    @Caz:

    Did you say something? No? OK. I keep thinking that you are saying something but it must be the flies buzzing around the pile of shit that you are.

  155. 155
    travis says:

    Go fuck yourself troll

  156. 156
    travis says:

    @travis: That was meant for Caz

  157. 157
    Pandemoniac says:

    Anyone read the actual invocation of executive privilege?

    It would’ve drawn all the funny out of Caz’s hyperventilation. It is invoked only over the post February 2011 documents. By the date on these docs, the program had been wrapped up and put to rest.

    The ExecPriv claim isn’t over documents relating to the program, the agents running it, when/how/why/by-whom the program was terminated, who was sanctioned. All those docs are pre-2-11. Issa has all that. Not interested.

    The letter only covers any post-F&F deliberations at the DOJ.

    Any “concerns” by Caz and his ilk over the “accountability” for F&F and the death of U.S. agents is merely cadaver humping. Pure. And. Simple.

  158. 158
    shortstop says:

    wearing your own blatant dishonesty like a pair of brightly-colored Transformers underwear on your head

    I plan to work this phrase into conversations at every opportunity.

  159. 159
    NancyDarling says:

    @shortstop: Me too!

  160. 160
    Mnemosyne says:

    @NancyDarling:

    I called Issa a schlemiel yesterday, and I still can’t think of a better word to explain his inability to actually get anything right. Yiddish is so expressive when it comes to insults.

  161. 161
    Soonergrunt says:

    @Mnemosyne: Everything that didn’t purport with what s/he wanted it to be.

  162. 162
    patroclus says:

    @Pandemoniac: Thanks for actually reading it. That pretty much sums up the whole situation. Issa (and our local trolls) cannot answer that and it lays bare their constant lies about what they hope to accomplish with their investigation.

  163. 163
    LGRooney says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: How many footnotes does he have? That’s the real measure of intellectual integrity in wingnut world.

  164. 164
    catpal says:

    I think a great response to this could be “Hey Americans, do you Really want Republicans and this Issa guy spending another $100 MILLION of taxpayer money like Ken Starr did investigating everything President Clinton did?”

    Waste all that Time and $$$$ when Republicans and that Issa guy should be working on JOBS for Americans.

  165. 165
    NancyDarling says:

    @Mnemosyne: I think he is more of a schmo than a schlemiel since according to my dictionary, a schmo is a jerk. May we could call him a schlemielly schmo. Either way, he is most odious besides being a felonious, whiny-assed titty baby and a lying sack of shit to boot.

  166. 166
    Ghost of Christmas Past says:

    It’s too bad for you all that Wide Receiver was canceled 2 years before Obama even took office, let alone FnF got started. So there goes one talking point. I guess you’re left with false appeals to authority, tu quoque and ad hominem attacks. Let me know how that works out for you.

  167. 167
    Pandemoniac says:

    @patroclus: As with any other Freeper Freakout, a casual google of the relevant Obama Admin action and you go: that? THAT’s what they have their dainties in a twist about? Pfft. Whatev.

  168. 168
    JR in WV says:

    @Caz:

    But, but BUT, the whole operation was invented by – are you ready for this?_ The George W Bush Department of Justice!

    Attorney General Holder was handed a burning bag of crap stamped SECRET wherein the vaguely document details of Operation Stupid Name were preserved, and will eventually decide who broke what laws.\

    In the meantime Rep. Issa should STFU and let the lawyer-prosecutors deal with research, seek indictment (Of Bush appointees) and go to trial in cases where no plea agreement is reached.

    So YOU should STFU until the judicial process is completed, when legislative investigations become appropriateQ!@!

  169. 169
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Caz:

    Your howling pain is a like a tonic to me, teatard insect.

  170. 170
    The Populist says:

    Some site called the Washington Examiner is claiming this…

    I was on some hate site where the right wing trolls are using this info to “win” the argument:

    According to Grassley’s memo, Justice said that Holder “inadvertently” made the charge against Mukasey in a hearing.

    Here is the full text of the Grassley memo:

    To: Reporters and Editors

    Re: Second retraction of Fast and Furious Assertions

    Da: Wednesday, June 20, 2012

    The Justice Department has retracted a second statement made to the Senate Judiciary Committee. During a hearing last week, Attorney General Eric Holder claimed that his predecessor, then-Attorney General Michael Mukasey, had been briefed about gunwalking in Operation Wide Receiver. Now, the Department is retracting that statement and claiming Holder “inadvertently” made that claim to the Committee. The Department’s letter failed to apologize to former Attorney General Mukasey for the false accusation. This is the second major retraction the Justice Department has made in the last seven months. In December 2011, the Department retracted its claim that the ATF had not allowed illegally purchased guns to be trafficked to Mexico. Sen. Chuck Grassley’s letter and the Department’s response can be viewed here-1.

    In addition, the Justice Department released only one page of additional material prior to the Attorney General’s meeting on Capitol Hill on Tuesday. It is a page of handwritten notes by a public affairs specialist for the Deputy Attorney General, which the Department says it “just recently discovered.” The notes indicate that when Deputy Assistant Attorney General Jason Weinstein met with senior ATF officials on April 28, 2010, regarding the problem of gunwalking in Wide Receiver, the Deputy Attorney General’s public affairs specialist also attended the meeting. These notes can be viewed here-2.

    The notes indicate that Fast and Furious was also a topic discussed at the meeting, in addition to Wide Receiver. These notes further corroborate contemporaneous emails in 2010 that show Criminal Division Chief Lanny Breuer and Weinstein seemed to have been more concerned about the press implications of gunwalking than they were about making sure ATF ended the practice. (These emails can be viewed here-3.) The notes also undermine the claim that senior DOJ officials failed to “make the connection” between the gunwalking in Wide Receiver–which Breuer admitted to knowing about–and gunwalking in Fast and Furious. In fact, both cases were discussed by senior Department leadership and senior ATF leadership.

    Grassley made the following comment on these developments.

    “This is the second time in nearly seven months that the Department has gotten its facts wrong about gunwalking. Attorney General Holder accused Attorney General Mukasey, without producing any evidence, of having been briefed on gunwalking in Wide Receiver. The case Attorney General Mukasey was briefed on, Hernandez, is fundamentally different from both Wide Receiver and Fast and Furious since it involved cooperation with the Mexican government. Attorney General Holder’s retraction should have included an apology to the former Attorney General.

    “In his eagerness to blame the previous administration, Attorney General Holder got his facts wrong. And his tactic didn’t bring us any closer to understanding how a bad policy evolved and continued. Bad policy is bad policy, regardless of how many administrations carried it out. Ironically, the only document produced yesterday by the Department appears to show that senior officials in the Attorney General’s own Department were strategizing about how to keep gunwalking in both Wide Receiver and Fast and Furious under wraps.”

    ——————————–

    Where did they get this?

  171. 171
    The Populist says:

    @catpal: Let’s hope Americans can see this argument. I fear they won’t…

  172. 172
    Pandemoniac says:

    @The Populist: What? Are you saying that during the Bush Admin gun Walking is going on in the ATF and the DOJ doesn’t know? Thank you Grassley for pointing out what an out-of-touch AG Mukasey was.

    How dare Holder give Mukasey any credit for being aware of what is going on? And the arrests and convictions from said gun walking didn’t happen until Obama took office? What was Mukasey waiting for? Oh, Right.

    Same goes for Issa. He was briefed on the F&F program a year before the whistleblowers came to light and didn’t stop it. He should conduct an investigation and subpoena hisself for being such an ignoramus.

  173. 173
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Ghost of Christmas Past:

    It’s too bad for you all that Wide Receiver was canceled 2 years before Obama even took office, let alone FnF got started.

    So your claim is that there were two different Bill Newells in charge of the two different operations, one who worked only for Bush and one who worked only for Obama and not, y’know, one guy who worked for both administrations who ran both operations?

    That’s some delusional shit right there.

  174. 174
    The Populist says:

    @Pandemoniac: I agree with you. But I wonder where this rag got this info.

  175. 175
    Mnemosyne says:

    @The Populist:

    Grassley’s a Republican. He sent a blast fax everyone on his right-wing media list. Note that the “to” is “Reporters and editors.”

  176. 176
    Pandemoniac says:

    @The Populist: Grassley. The Agents in the Phoenix ATF office that provided a lot of the ammo for Issa’s committee go through Grassley then onto Issa. One in particular got shitcanned and this is the opening that Issa uses for claiming that Holder has tried to silence whistleblowers (BS). Grassley leaks like a soggy tampon.

  177. 177
    jefft452 says:

    @Caz: “(1) Do you think anyone should be held accountable for Brian Terry’s death, along with the deaths of countless Mexican citizens gunned down with these weapons?” sure
    “(2) If so, who?” Mexican drug cartels

  178. 178
    brantl says:

    @Caz:

    Have some integrity for once in your life instead of being a whining, dishonest jerk all the time.Have some integrity for once in your life instead of being a whining, dishonest jerk all the time.

    Pot, meet the mirror. If there is a more dishonest jerk on this blog than you, I haven’t seen him/her.

  179. 179
    brantl says:

    @mclaren:

    So what you’re saying here is that once again Barack Obama’s White House is pursuing deeply discredited Reagan/Bush 43 policies that pushed us to the brink of an imperial police state.

    Nope, dumbass, what we’re saying is that this was a program that was already instituted, was treated by the locals running it as SOP, and that Holder is putting a stop to it. Reading comprehension, much?

  180. 180
    brantl says:

    @Caz:

    (4) Who has Eric Holder held responsible or accountable? Not one person has been fired over this.

    The Us Attorney was fired over this. Reading comprehension, much?

  181. 181
    John M. Burt says:

    (1) Do you think anyone should be held accountable for Brian Terry’s death, along with the deaths of countless Mexican citizens gunned down with these weapons?

    Yes, I think that is a good idea.

    (2) If so, who?

    Quite a number of people, although I am not sure who-all.

    (3) If you’re not sure who is responsible, how would you suggest we find out who is responsible and should be held accountable?

    By a non-partisan investigation by trustworthy people who do not have a political axe to grind.

    (4) Who has Eric Holder held responsible or accountable? Not one person has been fired over this.

    Is that true? Can you provide a link to documentation of this claim?

    (5) This has nothing to do with party affiliation..

    Look directly into my eyes. I. Do. Not. Believe. You.

    (6) It’s a slap in the face to Terry’s family

    You are exhausting my patience with your repeated slapping of Agent Terry’s family in their faces. Stop it.

    They are the corrupt politicians; you all are the American people – act like it!

    Because the American people would never vote for That Man — they must be sleepwalking!

    Snap out of it, American people! [SLAP SLAP SLAP]

Comments are closed.