There Never Was No War On Women (Internet Division)

I’ve got a bunch of other “I should write something about this” entries in my queue — but a tweet retweeted from someone whose handle I didn’t keep (sorry) led me to an article that just short-circuited my rage-and-sorrow circuits:

A Californian blogger, Anita Sarkeesian, launched a Kickstarter project to make a web video series about “tropes vs women in videogames”. Following on from her similar series on films, it aimed to look at women as background decoration, Damsels in Distress, the Sexy Sidekick and so on….
Sarkeesian was after $6,000 to cover the cost of researching the topic, playing all kinds of awful games, and producing the videos.
You can guess what comes next.

In Sarkeesian’s own words:

“The intimidation and harassment effort has included a torrent of misogyny and hate speech on my YouTube video, repeated vandalizing of the Wikipedia page about me, organized efforts to flag my YouTube videos as “terrorism”, as well as many threatening messages sent through Twitter, Facebook, Kickstarter, email and my own website.  These messages and comments have included everything from the typical sandwich and kitchen “jokes” to threats of violence, death, sexual assault and rape.  All that plus an organized attempt to report this project to Kickstarter and get it banned or defunded.”

Head over to the link for more detail, none of it pleasant.

The good news is that Sarkeesian much more than made her nut at Kickstarter.  The bad news — as I’m guessing most of us know all too well — is that there is a depressingly large subset of our society deeply threatened by anything that amounts of an assertion of agency by anyone not supposed to possess it.  An African-American President is not just someone with whom to disagree; he is unpossible.  He must be Kenyan.

A woman in charge of her own body?  A woman asserting that femaleness is not simply a toy built for the amusement the rude boyz of the ‘tubes?

An abomination, it seems.

There’s nothing to negotiate at that point; there’s no middle ground when, to put it in the ever so polite terms of a David Brooks, us followers have to learn how to allow our betters to lead us as they did back in 1925.  (I’ll send you to the essential Charlie Pierce for details, properly dissected.)

I would say we have a long way to go — but anyone on the receiving end of this nonsense knows this without being told.  What I can say is that this is why the fight is necessary.  I get that some folks hate and fear the reality of change in society, culture, the Way Things Ought To Be.

Not my problem.

Theirs.

Image: Artemisia Gentileschi, Judith Beheading Holofernes1611-1612.






163 replies
  1. 1
    beltane says:

    Would anyone here care to take credit for this wonderful comment re: David Brooks? http://crookedtimber.org/2012/.....ent-418108

  2. 2
    Mino says:

    Interesting that far and away, the top TV show that generates research papers is Buffy.

    Did you know there was a Whedon journal called Slayage?

    Here’s the linkie: http://slayageonline.com/

  3. 3
    Tom Levenson says:

    @beltane: That’s the Pierce post, I think in its entirety — or pretty damn close.

  4. 4
    Valdivia says:

    The more things change. Inspired choice in art Tom. Artemisia, who also never experienced War on Women either.

  5. 5
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    I’m sorry, I would be pissed if my beard trimming was going as badly as the guy’s in the picture.

    @Mino: I read the article. It seems the authors didn’t do a very large canvassing. They didn’t look for obvious titles like Star Trek.

  6. 6
    Mino says:

    @beltane: Do you think Brook’s column was meant to discuss Hayes’ new book?

  7. 7
    beltane says:

    @Tom Levenson: And here I was thinking it was either you or Meterosexual Black AbeJ. I think I need to get out more.

  8. 8
    PurpleGirl says:

    Feminism: The radical idea that women are people.

    So simple, yet so dangerous. And so many just can not accept it.

  9. 9
    Mino says:

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent): Perhaps the entire assemblage but surely not an individual series. They did lump all the Aliens, though.

  10. 10
    Stuck in the Funhouse says:

    Excellent post, on a subject that is way misunderestimated. Obama becoming president surely did open my eyes to the high level of all the sorts of depravity, mostly coming out the mouths of white males in this society. And the usual suspects on the right wing, are only a tip of the iceberg, imho. I would bet dollars to donuts, that a lot of those vile comments coming to this woman, were sent by fair haired all American boy types, that have found a way to express their thoughts of hate and privilege, in a chickenshit way via the internet. And not all of them are right wingers. I never would have agreed the wide and deep degree of this problem in this the year 2012. I do now.

  11. 11
    jrg says:

    I don’t see what there is to get worked up over. So, 4chan is a bunch of assholes, and video games are geared towards men. What else is new?

    WRT the War on Women, this isn’t anywhere close to the ballpark of state mandated transvaginal ultrasounds, or the beanie brigade testifying on birth control to Congress. That really is new. Assholes on the internet? Not so much.

  12. 12
    Joel says:

    4chan is why I sometimes hope for an end to anonymity on the internet…

  13. 13
    beltane says:

    @Mino: Brooks is quite the coward, isn’t he. He felt the need to address the concerns of the riff-raff, but made it a point to not address said riff-raff by name because he, David Brooks, fancies himself an intellectual leader who must be respected while Chris Hayes is merely a defective follower who should never be spoken to directly.

  14. 14
    jwb says:

    @beltane: That is an epic and awesome takedown.

  15. 15
    S. cerevisiae says:

    Humans can really suck. In my next life I wanna be a dolphin.

  16. 16
  17. 17
    Stuck in the Funhouse says:

    @S. cerevisiae:

    I could be a dolphin, and be happy. But my first choice would be A Bird of Paradise, preferable in the south Pacific, but that’s negotiable.

  18. 18
    jwb says:

    @Tom Levenson: Same form, but it’s not Pearce’s response. It does some things better than Pearce, some things less effectively.

  19. 19
    Egg Berry says:

    @jrg: You assume this is just /b/.

    /b/ has always been at war with Eastasia women.

  20. 20
    Thoughtcrime says:

    @Stuck in the Funhouse:

    Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out.

  21. 21
    Hypatia's Momma says:

    @jrg:
    It’s good that you’ve never been the target of a concentrated attack in nearly every aspect of your life but do please try not to be so dismissive. “Well, that’s just how they are!” is one major reason why the War On Women is able to escalate.

  22. 22
    Dave says:

    All art is propaganda, eh Tom?

  23. 23
    Comrade Mary says:

    @jrg: A woman identifies herself by her real name on the Internet, she can be easily found by anyone with a scintilla of motivation, and she suffers an onslaught of hate, including DEATH AND RAPE THREATS — and that’s no big deal?

    Jesus fucking Christ. No, it’s not a problem affecting thousands or millions of women, but it’s a big fucking deal to that one woman and to any woman who looks at that and decides not to ever speak up on the Internet.

  24. 24
    Alison says:

    @jrg: I don’t know your gender, but as a woman I can tell you that being constantly subjected to the kind of intense hatred, nastiness, cruelty and repugnant imagery that many of us are simply for the galling crime of Existing Whilst Female On the Internet is definitely important. It is exhausting to deal with day after day, in the main forum where much of our lives now take place. I used to be an avid RPG gamer and while I was mostly lucky in that I had a core group of friends to game with who were not assholes, there were always some around, and I had many nights ruined by them. And while this never happened to me, I would also point out that many of these fuckers do not stop at just one or two “make me a sammich” jokes, but rather end up cyberstalking the fuck out of some women and quite literally making them feel unsafe even signing into a game or their email or a forum.

    Also, if you really think people who do this shit limit it to only online and anonymous spheres, I’d ask to reexamine that thought. These are the same assholes who will harass women in public places, who will demean them in schools and workplaces, etc. “It’s just the internet” hasn’t been true for a long time.

  25. 25
    Thoughtcrime says:

    Jeb’s backpedaling commences right on cue:

    Am reminded today why I rarely read headlines. #ContextIsImportant
    — @JebBush via HootSuite

    The point I was making yesterday is this: The political system today is hyperpartisan. Both sides are at fault.
    — @JebBush via HootSuite

    Past 4 years, Democrats have held leadership roles w/opportunities to reach across political aisle. For sake of politics, they haven’t.
    — @JebBush via HootSuite

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/.....modern-GOP

  26. 26
    David Koch says:

    @Mino:

    top TV show that generates research papers is Buffy.

    That’s because geeks and nerds (the people who write research papers) think she’s cute and approachable (as opposed to teh Cordelia who is too intimidating with her banging body).

  27. 27
    Hypatia's Momma says:

    @Egg Berry:
    I think a lot of this might be coming from TVTropes.

  28. 28
    lol says:

    @jrg:

    Don’t kid yourself that this is isolated to 4chan. Nearly, every geek oriented site has the problem of socially awkward college aged straight white guys from middle class families who are absolutely threatened by the anyone who brings up that they might have it easier than someone in the same position who doesn’t share all of those qualities.

    This sort of stuff *routinely* happens on Twitter. Some brogrammer tech company spouts some “funny” sexist nonsense in their advertising, gets called out on it, becomes defensive, their followers attack the defiant woman as a bitch/slut/etc.

    At least, if nothing else, the flood of misogynism amply demonstrated the need for this video series to begin with.

  29. 29
    Leeds man says:

    Interesting infographic from Chris Clarke.

  30. 30
    Egg Berry says:

    @Hypatia’s Momma: Never heard of that site, actually. I figured people would jump on /b/ because that’s the kind of shit /b/ would pull. My point being there are a lot of sexists/racists/homophobes/etc. who don’t even know what /b/ is, and have no problem spewing their hate on the Intertubes. That site would seem to confirm the point.

  31. 31
    RossInDetroit says:

    Maybe it’s just me but Pierce seems sadder and sadder with every takedown of Brooks. It’s like it’s gradually sinking in that the column in question is not aberrant but representative of Brooks’ thinking. Like refuting DB is not an intermittent mission but an endless slog through the rank undergrowth of self deception and intellectual dishonesty. And he’s starting to really hate it down there.

  32. 32
    Thoughtcrime says:

    Michelle should have joined Barack for a duet:

    Someone left the cake out in the rain
    I don’t think that I can take it
    ’cause it took so long to bake it
    And I’ll never have that recipe again

    “…BALTIMORE — President Obama went on the offense against Republicans and their nominee Mitt Romney, pushing back on the often-repeated accusation that his administration has ballooned the country’s deficit.

    “I love it when these guys talk about debt and deficits,” Obama told supporters in Baltimore. “I inherited a trillion dollar deficit.”

    “We signed two trillion dollars in spending cuts into law,” Obama said. “Spending under my administration has grown more slowly than under any president in 60 years.”

    Obama said that the country’s budget deficits and big debt were the result of the George W. Bush’s two tax cuts, as well as the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.

    They baked all this stuff into the cake with those tax cuts… and the war,” Obama said.

    “It’s like somebody goes to a restaurant, orders a big steak dinner, a martini and all that stuff, then just as you’re sitting down they leave and accuse you of running up the tab,” Obama said…”

    http://www.politico.com/politi.....25978.html

  33. 33
    Hypatia's Momma says:

    @Egg Berry:
    Ah, I see. TVTropes forum regulars have a reputation for misogyny and pedophilia and already hate Ms. Sarkeesian for doing the “Tropes V.S. Women” series.

  34. 34
    tofubo says:

    civ II, 2,000 years later
    .
    The only governments left are two theocracies and myself, a communist state. I wanted to stay a democracy, but the Senate would always over-rule me when I wanted to declare war before the Vikings did
    .
    http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming.....ization_ii

  35. 35
    Mayken says:

    @Stuck in the Funhouse: Yeah, I am still often surprised at how vehemently misogynist even so-called liberal/progressive men can be if you step on one of their sacred cows. It’s damned depressing, I can tell you.

  36. 36
    Alison says:

    @lol: Ah, yes. This actually reminds me of a recent incident where I was suddenly subjected to some incredible nastiness, though it wasn’t gamer related but rather another form of nerddom.

    I can’t recall the substance of it, but I replied to a tweet from Neil DeGrasse Tyson, asking him to clarify what he meant by something – specifically I think I asked something along the lines of “Your point being…?” He replied to me (in a way that made the tweet public to all of his followers) something vague, “I don’t make points, just offer information” or something like that.

    Within *seconds* I had a fucking deluge of what I can only refer to as hate-tweets. Dozens of them, calling me a bitch, a slut, a stupid piece of shit, ragging on my looks, my Twitter bio, my previous tweets, and basically my relative worth as a woman, human, warm hole for cocks, etc. I was called every variation on dumb, ugly, slut, etc I could imagine, was told in no uncertain terms HOW DARE I QUESTION THIS INTELLIGENT MAN ON ANYTHING I SHOULD SHUT MY WHORE MOUTH NOW AND FOREVER, basically. I am quite honestly not exaggerating.

    (What also disappointed me was that many of those tweets included Tyson’s @ name, so he saw some of them too, and did not seem to feel any need to ask people to chill out or leave me alone. I used to think he was a cool guy. After that incident, not so much.)

    So yeah. This shit is not just about a few people here and there saying a few meanie-face things. Some of these tweets were the nastiest, most hate-filled shit I have heard said to me. It was disturbing, to say the absolute least, to get that kind of vitriol thrown at me simply for being female and asking for a little clarification on something a man had said. I wasn’t rude, I wasn’t insulting, just curious…but I was curious while having a vagina, so obviously I need to be raped and/or beaten and/or made to STFU and/or die you stupid ugly bitch.

    Yeah, just the internet. Kiss my ass with that dismissive shit.

  37. 37
    anibundel says:

    @Stuck in the Funhouse: Those who were dolphins have already left. Their note said “So long, and thanks for all the fish.”

  38. 38
    Sentient Puddle says:

    @jrg:

    I don’t see what there is to get worked up over. So, 4chan is a bunch of assholes, and video games are geared towards men. What else is new?

    It’s wrong. All the sexist hate directed at Sarkeesian is wrong. Which is a good reason on its own to speak up.

    But in addition, you’re wrong. Video games are not geared towards men. Even if you discount everything from PopCap games like Bejeweled or mobile games (which you shouldn’t because they’re still video games), there are still plenty of women who play video games, and plenty of games are designed with women in mind.

    Yet you’re able to casually toss off that assertion because the video gaming community can and will spew shit like this, which clearly means that there’s no place for women in the community! Speaking as a video gamer, this is pathetic, and indicative that we need to police our own better. And for me, that’s another good reason to speak up.

    (To be clear, I’m not ragging on you for this.)

  39. 39
    Mayken says:

    @Hypatia’s Momma: This! A thousand times this! I’m so sick of explaining how, yes, these types of issues are of a piece with the beanie brigade fighting birth control and the vagina police etc.

  40. 40
    Hypatia's Momma says:

    @Mayken:
    “Boys will be boys!”
    “Just ignore them and they’ll stop.”
    “Have you tried smiling more? Boys like girls who smile!”
    “Maybe they secretly like you and are just trying to get your attention.”

  41. 41
    Mayken says:

    @Hypatia’s Momma: Yes, yes, yes and yes. Ugh! I’m about to turn a big round number and some things seriously have not changes since I was a little girl. Sigh!

  42. 42
    jrg says:

    Whew, I sure did kick a hornets’ nest with that one.

    Look, I’m not saying “boys will be boys”, I’m not saying “it’s OK”, I’m saying there are assholes. Many assholes have access to the internet.

    …And frankly, I’m not sure that nutpicking youtube comments is the way to go if you want people to take you seriously.

  43. 43
    Greyjoy says:

    One should also not forget, nor minimize, how trashing someone on the Internet can lead to the trash-ee having their employment and other real-life factors affected, for years on end. One forum on which I was once a regular had a bunch of users who decided to comb the Internet for naked pictures of all the female members, and post them on the site along with the female member’s username and other personal information. Why? Just because it was something to do. And when one female member happened to die in a car accident, some of these same users went to the memorial webpage that her family had set up, and posted the girl’s naked pictures all over it.

    You know, there are articles on CNN about women who get attacked or honor-killed in Afghanistan, and tons of comments about how Muslims or Afghans are cave-dwelling troglodytes who treat their women horribly—and then 5 minutes later they’re on a different page with an article about a woman doing, well, pretty much anything, and the comments are full of these same guys spewing exactly the same threats, misogyny and garbage toward the women who are their cultural peers that they’re supposedly so against when it happens in the Middle East. Okay, so maybe I haven’t had anyone literally come to my house and throw acid in my face or rape me because of my views, but then again I’m one of those female members whose junk is being displayed on a webpage because I expressed an opinion. Those same photos have been in circulation for over 10 years because the original person uploaded them because he wanted to humiliate me; and then someone else found them who wanted to achieve the same thing; and again, and again, and again throughout the years. Every day I wonder if I’m going to wake up and discover all my shit hacked and my professional credibility ruined because of this. Now how many guys do this to each other when they get pissed off?

  44. 44
    gwangung says:

    …And frankly, I’m not sure that nutpicking youtube comments is the way to go if you want people to take you seriously.

    I think this is an outsider’s perspective.

    Why is that a more relevant one than Ms. Sarkeesian’s?

  45. 45
    Hypatia's Momma says:

    @Mayken:
    I had a lot more, as I’m sure you can guess, but the rising bile, the increasing tendency for my fingers to just mash the keyboard in a rage of hate, and the urge to lure information out of my mom regarding the identities of my primary school teachers for the sole purpose of hunting them down and explaining why I believe their stupid excuses were, and are, harmful to me and society as a whole, preferably with a lead pipe, became a bit much and I had to stop.

  46. 46
    Egg Berry says:

    @jrg:

    …And frankly, I’m not sure that nutpicking youtube comments is the way to go if you want people to take you seriously.

    Close reading is your friend.

    as well as many threatening messages sent through Twitter, Facebook, Kickstarter, email and my own website.

  47. 47
    muddy says:

    @Valdivia:

    The more things change. Inspired choice in art Tom. Artemisia, who also never experienced War on Women either.

    Yeah, she had to endure the thumbscrews in order to give evidence at the own rape trial, because you can’t believe women unless you are torturing them at the time.

    I wrote an art history paper many years ago on the difference in depictions of the Holophernes scene when painted/sculpted by men, as opposed to her plain butchery. I do prefer the later 2 she did on this scene though, the 1620 one where she has a gold dress, and the blood is really spurting. Also there is one from 1625 as Judith and the maid with the head. Artemisia used herself as a model in most of her paintings, many of which involved abused women. She was a genius painter, I don’t think the one at the top is her best work.

  48. 48
    Walker says:

    Racism and misogyny are rampant in gaming culture. It is a major, major problem and is one of the reasons why there was such a backlash to the Real ID (you had to game under your real name, revealing your gender) push by Blizzard.

  49. 49
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Alison:

    (What also disappointed me was that many of those tweets included Tyson’s @ name, so he saw some of them too, and did not seem to feel any need to ask people to chill out or leave me alone. I used to think he was a cool guy. After that incident, not so much.)

    It’s entirely possible that he already had those assholes blocked and never even saw the comments. If you block someone on Twitter, they can @ you all day long and you’ll never see what they wrote. Can’t say for sure, of course.

  50. 50
    Alison says:

    @jrg: But it wasn’t “nutpicking”, if I have that term correct, to mean sifting through a lot of stuff and highlighting only certain aspects.

    Trust me, those comments were by and large the whole lot of them. I’d bet it would be immensely more difficult to make a list of any length of the non-awful comments.

    And again, we’re talking about a larger thing here, of which these comments are a microcosm, an example. This shit happens in EVERY forum online, all the fucking time, to many many women, for anything and everything. This was one way for this woman to show people the kind of shit we deal with. To say it’s just “YouTube comments” is not true. It’s fucking everywhere.

    Gah, seriously. If you can’t see how off you are about this, maybe you should just stop.

  51. 51
    Hypatia's Momma says:

    @Walker:
    Do you remember the Fat Princess meltdown? One woman on the internet made a few critical remarks about the game and guy gamers everywhere went into full-blown hysterics.

  52. 52
    muddy says:

    @Hypatia’s Momma: How about, “I can’t believe you reported them! Now those boys will have a black mark on their permanent record!”

    Yeah, thanks, Mom. They should.

  53. 53
    Alison says:

    @Mnemosyne: Well…but it wasn;t just a few people. I’d be surprised if he happened to have the 40-50 people who tweeted at us both all blocked. I mean, that would be an amazing coincidence. And he obviously checks his @ replies because he responded to my tweet very soon after I made it. He may not have seen all of them but he certainly saw enough to see what was going on, and didn’t say a word.

    I’ve seen other celebs on twitter call out their followers for shit like that. I was let down that he didn’t.

  54. 54
    Greyjoy says:

    Hey, if you need proof, go set up a female identity on some forum or game and go spend a few hours. Pick a photo of a woman who’s even moderately attractive as your ‘user photo’ and express an opinion on something relevant to the discussion of the day. See what happens.

  55. 55
    Mayken says:

    @Hypatia’s Momma: I hear ya. I have more than a few grade school teachers I’d like to slap, including the one who told my fourth grade best friend to wear a bra if she didn’t want the boys to grab her breasts (she’d developed much faster than the rest of us, needless to say.) Ugh! Must Control Fist Of Death.

  56. 56
    Mnemosyne says:

    @jrg:

    Look, I’m not saying “boys will be boys”, I’m not saying “it’s OK”, I’m saying there are assholes. Many assholes have access to the internet.

    Many assholes have access to the telephone, so there’s no point in getting upset about threatening phone calls.

    Many assholes have access to the post office, so there’s no point in getting upset about nasty letters.

    I’m assuming that you’re mostly speaking out of ignorance, because you seem to have no clue at all how how terrifying it is to have strangers call you or e-mail you with threats and insults. Because, yeah, 99 percent of those guys are bigmouth assholes who won’t do anything, but I know way too many women who were stalked because that 1 percent became obsessed with them and would start following them to work, following them home, calling them at work, finding their cell phone number and calling them, etc.

  57. 57
    muddy says:

    @Alison: Yeah, I got hounded off from Usenet with shit like this in olden dayze. You’d think things would have gotten better by now, but nooooo

  58. 58
    Hypatia's Momma says:

    @jrg:

    Many assholes have access to the internet.

    They also have access to actual women they meet every day and voting booths. I’m not sure why you think this behaviour is solely confined to the internet nor why you’re being so dismissive about a woman receiving multiple rape threats (while claiming to be on our side? Really?) but you need to stop defending your position and pay attention to what we are all saying. Don’t react; think.

  59. 59
    Linda Featheringill says:

    Trying to accomplish something, anything, can result in a woman being dumped on with a lot of filth.

    However, we have all known women who DIDN’T color outside of the lines and still had to put up with a lot of grief.

    So you might as well do what you want to do.

    Justice? I don’t know. Do you think it’s a myth?

  60. 60
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Alison:

    Ah, okay. I was hoping for the best since it doesn’t seem that weird to me that a guy with 500K followers would have 50 or 100 of them blocked. That does suck.

  61. 61
    Walker says:

    @Hypatia’s Momma:

    I remember that. Though my attitude about that game was “it is Japanese, and they make much, much worse games”. Not to downplay the issues with that game, though.

  62. 62
    Greyjoy says:

    You really only need ONE asshole to show up outside your workplace or follow you home from the grocery store in order to go from being a “woman dealing with assholes on the Internet” to a statistic.

  63. 63
    Stuck in the Funhouse says:

    Another day, another steamy pile from the peanut gallery.

    President Barack Obama is rapidly losing support among African-American voters in North Carolina, a new poll out today from the Democratic-leaning Public Policy Polling shows.

    The poll finds that Mitt Romney would get 20 percent of the African-American vote if the election were held today, compared with 76 percent for Obama. Overall, Romney has a 48 percent to 46 percent lead on Obama in the crucial swing state.

    20 percent of AA’s voting for Romney? who in their right mind would believe this. Outside the winger echo chamber.

    Jim Williams, a polling analyst at PPP, said it could be “statistical noise” that comes with a small sample (only about 200 African-Americans were surveyed). But he said it was not something the agency has “ever seen before.”

    No shit sherlock. Who does a statewide poll with just 200 sampled, when every other poll in the universe has Obama getting at least 90 percent of the vote. Everywhere.

    It landed on Memerandum’s front page lead, so a swarm of right wing idiots will click it about a gazzilion times, while the other hand jerks away.

  64. 64
    Karen says:

    I feel ignorant but what is the difference between “impossible” “not possible” and “unpossible?” Especially when unpossible isn’t a real word?

  65. 65
    muddy says:

    @Stuck in the Funhouse: Probably they were not AA and just said they were to fuck the poll.

  66. 66
    Mayken says:

    @Greyjoy: You know, I’ve suggested this to some of my male geek buddies when they tell me I’m “too sensitive” or what not and it’s funny how fast they run away from the challenge. I’d pay good money to have one of them take me up on it.

  67. 67
    Stuck in the Funhouse says:

    @muddy:

    that’s possible – maybe even likely

  68. 68
    jrg says:

    @Mnemosyne: Maybe I should state this a different way.

    When we talk about the “GOP War on Women”, we’re talking about all the egregious shit Republicans have passed, or are trying to pass. Those people can be voted out of office.

    When we talk about 4chan, or Youtube, or tweets, or whatever, it’s not actionable. You cannot vote 4chan off the internet. So, what you might find this compelling, I don’t see a point.

  69. 69
    Raven says:

    A thread for every commie soccer game. NBA, not so much.

  70. 70
    Greyjoy says:

    @Karen: It’s being used ironically. I believe it originated from the Simpsons.

  71. 71
    David Koch says:

    @Stuck in the Funhouse: Blacks are probably furious because Obama used a computer worm to destroy Iran’s nuclear centrifuges.

  72. 72
    Egg Berry says:

    @Only the Facts: Keep trying to derail that chicken, troll.

  73. 73
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    World of Warcraft trade chat is, as often as not, a sewer of sexism and racism.

    It’s out there, people. For reals.

  74. 74
    Hypatia's Momma says:

    @jrg:

    When we talk about the “GOP War on Women”, we’re talking about all the egregious shit Republicans have passed, or are trying to pass. Those people can be voted out of office.

    No, that’s what you mean by it. We, the actual women under attack, are dealing with the entire War On Women, not just your own hand-picked battles. None of the GOP polices (and there are Democrats who agree with them) would be possible, much less probable, were there not already a systemic, pervasive, ongoing climate of hatred.

  75. 75
    Yutsano says:

    @Only the Facts: Hi. The adults are talking here, so if you don’t mind going back down to the basement like a good little troll we’ll deal with you later. Kthxbai!

  76. 76
    gex says:

    Derailing for Dummies

    I do love the “not my problem” responses. I’m guessing those are not coming from anyone XX.

    What’s the big deal?

    Why get upset about this when you can simply tolerate it?

    You know, we can only think about THE.ONE.PRIMARY.IMPORTANT.ISSUE.(1) and everything else is a waste of time when you think about how important that issue is.

    You know there is female circumcision in some societies? Therefore American men terrorizing women is totally okay and NBD.

    (1)Issues affecting discriminated groups are NEVER the one primary important issue. If you don’t understand why, just ask a straight white male, he can tell you.

  77. 77
    Egg Berry says:

    @jrg:

    When we talk about 4chan, or Youtube, or tweets, or whatever, it’s not actionable. You cannot vote 4chan off the internet. So, what you might find this compelling, I don’t see a point.

    The point is to push back and call it for what it is – wrong, and not acceptable in general society. Racism exists on the Internet too. Does that mean we should just ignore it when it is leveled against and individual?

    Also, too, Levenson never mentioned “GOP” in his post.

  78. 78
    Joseph Nobles says:

    All this sounds hideously like the Internet’s version of the Tahrir Square sexual harassment.

  79. 79
    Karen says:

    @Only the Facts:

    You wouldn’t know a fact if it came up to you and said hello but let’s say I go for your Rovian policy which is, if you repeat things constantly, they become true…

    My facts about you are: your mother’s brother knocked her up and you’re the result. Because of that, your IQ is the size of an ameba’s. You wait at children’s schools and grab little girls to have fun with.

    Now if I repeat that enough times, will that become true, Mr. Rove’s browntongued love child?

  80. 80
    Jim C. says:

    Full Disclosure: I’m a volunteer moderator at this website.

    Anita gives a very good interview over on Gamespot.

    http://www.gamespot.com/featur.....amusToLara

  81. 81
    elm says:

    @jrg: Stop digging. Read more and write less.

    You’ve clearly had the privilege of not being exposed to this toxic crap and it’s obvious that you’re ignorant about it too. You sound like a fool.

  82. 82
    Comrade Mary says:

    @jrg: Tom didn’t use the phrase “GOP War on Women”: the headline says “War on Women”. Sure, the GOP’s fuckery is on our collective mind, but the actions of a horde of vengeful, childish assholes on the Net not only holds a non-zero chance of leading to real violence, but the threat of receiving similar acts of intimidation threatens and silences many other women.

    You cannot vote 4chan off the Internet, but you can act as an ally and say NO FUCKING WAY is it acceptable to treat somebody as Sarkeesian has been treated. The more people that speak up — the more MEN that speak up — the less socially acceptable it will become for other men to act like fuckwads. Don’t throw up your hands and act that the only way to make things better is to vote for a handful of people into a handful of positions out there. It’s a big world out there.

  83. 83
    Mnemosyne says:

    @jrg:

    When we talk about 4chan, or Youtube, or tweets, or whatever, it’s not actionable. You cannot vote 4chan off the internet. So, what you might find this compelling, I don’t see a point.

    Yep, just sweep it under the rug and pretend it doesn’t happen. Why bother your beautiful mind with petty things like women being harassed for participating in internet discussions?

  84. 84
    Greyjoy says:

    Uh, you damn well can vote 4chan off the Internet, by making that kind of activity illegal and shutting down their server.

    I hope you are not going to now argue that people should have the right to threaten and harass someone as an expression of their First Amendment rights. I mean, seriously? There’s a pretty slim line between letting people say whatever they want to women online and having it bleed over into real life–in fact, it bled over into real life well before the Internet came along. This kind of shit was SOP when women entered the workplace, and it still goes on despite the fact that it’s illegal at the state and federal level. I think we’ve seen enough evidence in the last few years that things which occur on the Internet have an ugly tendency to affect real life, and so, what–women are just supposed to put up with harassment, threats and organized targeting and life-wrecking because…because there are assholes on the Internet? Do you not see how that supports an incredibly ugly precedent that basically you can do whatever you want to someone as long as she’s a chick?

  85. 85
    Stuck in the Funhouse says:

    @Only the Facts:

    Blacks, like everyone else, are suffering under Obamanomics.

    Weak trollfu, we have standards around here.

    Blacks, like everyone else, are suffering from right wing idiots, or spoofs of same. It all makes the blogs go round.

  86. 86
    gex says:

    @Mayken: Check out PZ Myers site and you’ll find the atheist crowd is riddled with this same problem. They get offended when a woman says, “hey cornering me in an elevator to proposition me is threatening” and then commence with showing her exactly what threatening is.

  87. 87
    InternetDragons says:

    This is why I just shake my head and sigh when some starry-eyed optimist blathers on about how things will be just peachy once the Baby Boomers die off and our wonderful younger generation moves into prominence…because they’re so free of racism/homophobia/sexism compared to those yucky seniors, right?

    Wrong.

    I’ve worked in the gaming industry (just on a part-time, for-fun basis, mind you…my ‘serious’ work is entirely different) and/or have moderated various gaming-related discussion boards for years, and the overt bigotry and hate speech I hear spewing from the virtual mouths of pre-teen/teen/young adult gamers is enough to make me sick.

    It’s not isolated to 4chan. Those comments look very typical to me (as in, I see stuff like this on a DAILY basis). It’s often hard for me to just mentally shake it off, and I learned long ago to be rabidly protective of my identifying information on the internet and on gaming sites. It’s not just ‘talk’. Some of those idiots will happily make the shift from a nasty post or two to outright harassment.

    It’s not “a few assholes” with access to the internet. Granted, it’s not all gamers, either…but it’s enough to make me sad and sometimes even a little hopeless about the future.

  88. 88
    ChrisNYC says:

    @Hypatia’s Momma: This a thousand times! That “we” was really something. Holy crap!

  89. 89
    Mnemosyne says:

    Also, too, free advice for men who are completely clueless about why women get upset about harassing phone calls or e-mails: read The Gift of Fear. Then stop to realize that every woman in your life — every single one — has to analyze every encounter she has with a man to determine whether or not he is planning to harm her. Constantly. All day long.

    ETA: And that’s not even counting the extra stress that women of color get to go through as they try to decide whether a random person will decide to hurt them because of their color, because of their gender, or because of both.

  90. 90
    Valdivia says:

    @muddy:

    I read her story years ago and it made an impression. And her paintings are quite moving too.

    I think women should more often go all Judith on men :)

  91. 91
  92. 92
    jrg says:

    OK, whatever. Feel free to define the “War on Women” as everything anyone ever said that you don’t like.

    That’s a winner. Seriously.

    In the mean time, I think I’ll go find something constructive to do, as we’re getting into personal attacks (elm). You all are entitled to waste your own time. Not mine.

  93. 93
    Loderi says:

    @jrg:

    Oh, so now that you’re encountering simple name-calling instead of actual death and rape threats, you’re going to chicken out and run away?

    Bravo.

    Feckless Coward.

  94. 94
    Egg Berry says:

    @jrg:

    OK, whatever. Feel free to define the “War on Women” as everything anyone ever said that you don’t like.

    Wow, that’s a nice strawman you built for yourself.

  95. 95
    muddy says:

    @Valdivia: Oh, but then you’re a bitch and have no sense of humor!

  96. 96
    Hypatia's Momma says:

    @jrg:

    OK, whatever. Feel free to define the “War on Women” as everything anyone ever said that you don’t like.

    That is blatantly false and you have now entered the “arguing in bad faith” and “intellectual dishonesty” zone. Welcome to Rush Limbaugh’s world; enjoy your stay.

    You all are entitled to waste your own time. Not mine.

    Educating others on the most elementary facts about what women in this society, much less others, frequently endure is never, not ever, a waste of our time. I can see that you feel it’s a waste of yours, though, and that’s a damned shame.

  97. 97
    The Thin Black Duke says:

    I love the smell of White Male Privilege in the morning.

  98. 98
    Mnemosyne says:

    @jrg:

    OK, whatever. Feel free to define the “War on Women” as everything anyone ever said that you don’t like.

    Yes, because when boys called me “Jugs” in junior high, the problem was that I was oversensitive, not that they were assholes who should have been made to stop.

    I guess we’ve found the last person in America who thinks bullying doesn’t exist.

  99. 99
    gex says:

    @Mnemosyne: It’s funny how disapproval can look like tolerance/acceptance when done improperly…

  100. 100
    Valdivia says:

    @muddy:

    and I’d be proudly so :)

  101. 101
    scav says:

    mmm, I don’t the jrg’s pat on the head and lecture on how mice girls don’t get upset or speak of these normal and expected part of life went over has well as jrg expected.

  102. 102
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Valdivia:

    Inspired choice in art Tom.

    As a Judith IRL, I’ve always kind of liked that painting.

  103. 103
    muddy says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: “The heart of Caesar in the soul of this woman,” she said.

  104. 104
    Mayken says:

    @gex: Ugh, yeah, I recall that one too. My gods, that got really ugly. I have a young son and all I can think is how do I teach him NOT to be that kind of an asshole?

  105. 105
    Ben Cisco says:

    @jrg: When you’ve kicked a hornet’s nest, and have the presence of mind to realize that you’ve kicked a hornet’s nest, it’s probably a good idea to stop fucking kicking the hornet’s nest.

    Your mileage, of course, may vary.

  106. 106
    ChrisNYC says:

    @jrg: Yeah, that is a huge strawman. And despite what the resident troll says, the war on women fire has not burned out. Once again, votes from women will be a major force in getting a bunch of Dems and the President over the finish line in November. So, you’re welcome.

  107. 107
    Tom Levenson says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Got to say…been waiting for the right moment to post the AG version of Judith for some time.

    ’twill be redeployed as needed….

  108. 108
    muddy says:

    @Tom Levenson: Go for one of the later ones next time. The 1620 one is much more “butcher-y”, blood spurting. The 1625 version is after the chop but the chiaroscuro is to die for. And as usual, she is her own model. it’s superb.

    They had an exhibition in St. Louis of her and her father’s work 10-12 years ago, it was amazing. She was much better than her father. Just breathtaking in person.

  109. 109
    RSA says:

    @gex:

    Check out PZ Myers site and you’ll find the atheist crowd is riddled with this same problem.

    The sexism problem in the atheist community disappointed and surprised me. It shouldn’t have suprised me.

  110. 110
    Lojasmo says:

    @Only the Facts:

    Keep fucking that chicken, dipshit.

  111. 111
    Valdivia says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    I love that you have an Old Testament name, so do I. :)

    and I also loved that Tom chose this painting not just because of Artemisia, but because of the kick ass Judith.

  112. 112
    Alison says:

    @jrg: Are you fucking kidding me? Have you actually paid attention to what we’ve been saying?

    As for “doing something constructive”, some of us feel that trying to make our society – which INCLUDES THE FUCKING INTERNET unless you’re fucking 90 years old or something – a better place for everyone to inhabit, a safer, more welcoming place, to be constructive. Yes, I find it very fucking constructive to attempt to combat sexism, racism, homophobia, etc, even if I also realize that it ain’t gonna happen overnight, that it’s a fight that;s been going on for a long time and will continue for a long time, especially so long as people like, oh, I don’t know…YOU…want to ignore it and act like it doesn’t matter. It’s not IMPORTANT. It’s not a REAL ISSUE, it’s just us silly ladies getting our panties in a wad because someone said something mean.

    If you think threats of beatings, rape, death are no biggie and just something we “don’t like”, then maybe you’re just as fucked up as those assholes. If you think there’s nothing “constructive” about exposing the rife misogyny, hatred and spite hurled at the unprivileged, then maybe you’re just as self-centered as those who whine about bitches wanting free birth control or complain that their health insurance plans cover maternity care.

    Do you think assholes online who call a woman a filthy stupid slut for merely disagreeing with them, or who tell a woman they’re going to rape her if she asks them to stop calling her names, are going to give TWO GOD DAMN FUCKS about helping us battle the “real” war on women being waged by politicians? You think those motherfuckers care about rape kits being tested, abortion clinics being protected, domestic violence laws being observed? (On that last one, I’ll also note a lot of these 4chan type shits are MRAs as well and think DV laws are all about feminists finding ways to subjugate poor poor men.)

    It’s so easy for you to say we’re being silly, because you clearly don’t give a damn about anything that doesn’t directly affect you. But this SHOULD affect you, if you have a shred of empathy. You SHOULD care about the lived experiences of others, if you’re anything approaching a decent person. or you can be an asshole and tell us we’re dumb for caring, we’re not being “constructive” by wanting to not be treated like shit and called every name in the book and made to worry about our REAL LIFE safety by assholes on the internet.

    Jesus fuck, dude. I can’t even with you anymore. Talk about having your night ruined by someone on the internet.

  113. 113
    Greyjoy says:

    @jrg:

    In the mean time, I think I’ll go find something constructive to do, as we’re getting into personal attacks (elm). You all are entitled to waste your own time. Not mine.

    Okay. As a result of your failure to think the way I wish, I choose to waste my time by ferreting out all your personal information, taking your latest profile photos and photoshopping your head onto porn actors, publishing a page of said photos and disseminating the URL on Twitter and Facebook along with your real name and address, and then emailing them to your boss.

    Because that’s what assholes do on the Internet.

  114. 114
    Hypatia's Momma says:

    And because jrg’s smarmy “everything anyone ever said that you don’t like” will continue to piss me off for days:
    You, sir, really, really, need to get a god damned clue. And with all respect to Mr. Deutsch, that’s just the normal, everyday, harassment of adult women. That shit starts when we are just hitting puberty, if not before.

  115. 115
    Cacti says:

    @Stuck in the Funhouse:

    20 percent of AA’s voting for Romney? who in their right mind would believe this. Outside the winger echo chamber.

    It could happen.

    Mitt believes the negro to be non-cursed since 1978.

  116. 116
    muddy says:

    @Valdivia: When you see versions painted by men, they generally have her leaning way back so as to keep her dress clean, and ick, blood!

    Of course Judith is now Apophryca , they threw all the strong women stories out.

  117. 117
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Valdivia:

    I love that you have an Old Testament name, so do I. :)

    Judith, so I understand, is actually one of the only two female names in the Apocrypha*, Susanna being the other (there are some pretty good paintings of Susanna and the Elders, too, but I’ll take Judith Beheading Holofernes any day of the week, TYVM).

    *I don’t want to tell you how close I came to typing Apocalypse there.

  118. 118
    muddy says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Susannah and the Elders is the definition of creepy.

  119. 119
    Hypatia's Momma says:

    @Alison:

    It’s so easy for you to say we’re being silly, because you clearly don’t give a damn about anything that doesn’t directly affect you. But this SHOULD affect you, if you have a shred of empathy. You SHOULD care about the lived experiences of others, if you’re anything approaching a decent person.

    For someone who claims to be on our side, jrg came across as being not so much for women, and their right to be treated as people, so much as against the GOP.

    (Any moment now the Punctuation Police are going to bust down my door and have me arrested and brought up on charges of Severe & Egregious Abuse Of The Comma.)

  120. 120
    muddy says:

    Apocalypse isn’t much worse a spelling than what I provided, derp. ;-)

  121. 121
    kindness says:

    I don’t know. I mean I know the Breitbart contingent exists on the net. And I know there are bunches of folks who revel in the take down of someone (anyone really) who has blasphemed in some manner (which is all too easy to do). But I’m thinking that most folk out there are decent even if they are mentally challenged through their approval of Fox, Brooks & other morans of the world.

    So yea, that so many people (guys) are willing to write things they (hopefully) would never actually say face to face in public is sad. I like internet anonominity(?) but at a certain point passing some over the line messages on to webmasters/authorities is in order.

  122. 122
    Valdivia says:

    @muddy:
    I love how Artemisia got her digging into the blood

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    when I went to Hebrew school (soooo long ago) I was taught Judith but not as an Apocrypha

  123. 123
    gene108 says:

    Meh…Anita’s not going to address people’s concerns about men cyberstalking or actually stalking women on MMORPG’s…

    Maybe someone here should write her to add this to her series, because of the extra loot she got in her Kickstarter funding.

    I personally don’t get the point of what she wants to do and how it relates to people’s comments on this forum about the crap “gamer girls” deal with.

    She’s basically going to bitch about how Nariko from Heavenly Sword is a “Fighting (bleep) Toy”, which to me isn’t really relevant to the complaints stated here about the crap “gamer girls” get.

    I just don’t see how the appearance of single-player protagonists, like Lara Croft or Nariko, are relevant to anything broader than sex appeal – even digitized sex appeal – can help sell a product.

  124. 124
    Chris says:

    @InternetDragons:

    This is why I just shake my head and sigh when some starry-eyed optimist blathers on about how things will be just peachy once the Baby Boomers die off and our wonderful younger generation moves into prominence…because they’re so free of racism/homophobia/sexism compared to those yucky seniors, right?

    Agreed.

    What I find with my generation is that while they’re a lot less likely to believe horseshit like “things were better before civil rights and we should never have changed that!” they’re perfectly willing to believe that “things were horrible before civil rights and thank God that changed… but we’ve gone too far in the other direction now, isn’t affirmative action unfair to white people?” etc etc etc… in other words, they’re just as happy to walk into the teabaggers’ bullshit fantasy alternate reality world in which white people are some kind of oppressed reality.

    The horseshit isn’t the same from generation to generation, exactly, but it’s equally potent in both cases.

  125. 125
    geg6 says:

    Boy, I wish I believed in reincarnation so I could satisfy myself that jrg would definitely be coming back as a woman in his next life.

    Protip: If there’s one demographic that really doesn’t get much of a vote in what can be defined as the War on Women, it would be that composed of straight white males.

  126. 126
    gene108 says:

    Anybody know what happens with Kickstarter, if funding goals are exceeded?

    The website says, if funding isn’t met no money is charged.

    Doesn’t mention what happens, when funding goals are exceeded.

    If people get to keep the extra money, they’ll be looking at a some nice extra coin after the projects are done.

  127. 127
    Karen says:

    There has been venomous hate and contempt towards women on the net ever since we dared to invade it years ago. But there has been that War on Women for a good part of women’s lives.

    You know, like women being punished for having brains and wanting to matter instead of being a man’s arm candy or sidekick?

    Or salesmen or repairmen thinking women are stupid and will try things on them they’d never do with men like quoting outrageous prices or unnecessary repairs.

    And when women actually dare to correct a man? Hellfire raising down.

    Unfortunately, what I’ve learned I have to do to stop the hatefulness and attempts by guys to shut me up “you fucking stupid bitch:” is by saying the most horrible and vicious things back or by shaming them. It shows them that I will always fight back, which I know is not healthy. But I refuse to let them make me a victim.

    If I see someone is being victimized I’ll fight for them too.

    I hate the War on Women for making me just as hateful as the men who participate in spewed verbal vomit. Anyone who says it doesn’t exist is willfully oblivious. Anyone who says that it’s just boys being boys misses the point.

    This War on Women is meant to undo decades of fought for rights. And the way these “men” treat women is meant to punish us and put us in our place.

  128. 128
    Comrade Mary says:

    @gene108: I don’t understand your objections. She was planning one line of research about the representation of female characters in video games, and you dismiss it because she is somehow required to study real-life harassment of women and girls who play games?

    Sure, the latter is an important issue, and many people are talking about it, but her chosen topic is a perfectly valid choice. She’s been self-financed so far, and has enough of an appreciative audience that she went onto Kickstarter to see if enough people would be willing to finance a more expensive project. You’re free to comment on the validity of her viewpoints, but you don’t get to choose what other people get to research. What, are you going to bag on John next for posting about Tunch instead of making more political posts?

    And what people have been talking about here isn’t simply the “crap” that “gamer girls” get: we have been discussing the vicious threats made to this specific woman — who doesn’t seem to get any sympathy from you. You seem much more concerned that she’s dared to express the opinion that a certain female character is a Fighting Fuck Toy.

  129. 129
    fuckwit says:

    I’ve noticed a weird bifurcation on the internet, and among the younger generation. I find it a shockingly stark contrast.

    It’s just bizarre.

    On the one hand, I’ve noticed that the vast majority of young people on the internet seem less and less tolerant of racism, sexism, homophobia, irrationality, impoliteness, and uncivility than any previous generation. They’re much more conscious of their privilege; their ideals and their work ethic and maturity are all in equal– and high– supply.

    They’re relentlessly, habitually, naturally NICE and inclusive, and they will instantly haul up and school anyone who is meanspirited, racist, homophobic, sexist, etc, and will shun/ban them quickly if they persist. It’s a generation much less tolerant of the kind of bullshit and casual bullying and anti-social behavior that my generation of geeks used to consider normal. They are just not going for it.

    And, sort of boiling out of that group, as a super hard-core cadre of absolutely vile and immature and homophobic assholes: the 4chan/lulzsec/anonymous crowd. Now, I support a lot of what anon/lulz have done in terms of bringing corporations and governments to heel. I LOL along and that’s great– even supported them when they were working on the Egyptian revolution.

    But ever actually listened to these 4chan/anon kids on a channel? Holy crap, it’s “GAY GAY GAY GAY” and racism and sexism is all over the place. Like the Limbaugh crowd, they’re not just inadvertent assholes born into privilege, they KNOW they are assholes, are PROUD of being assholes, and are doing it ON PURPOSE.

    I don’t know why this phenomenon exists. Maybe they resisted all attempts at being domesticated by the nice kids, and figured, there’s no hope of ever fitting in, so they’re happy to sit in the corner and hurl crisps at the rest of the partygoers.

    It’s very strange. In my day, there was plenty of inadvertent, unintentional assholery born of unconscious privilege. It wasn’t so common to be called out on it, so it became habit (some of which I’m still trying to break).

    But it seems like nowadays, the kids are much more naturally and thoroughly conscious of their privilege and their responsibilities to society and each other, and most choose to shoulder that responsibility– and I think are a lot more grown up than my generation was–, but a small but VERY vocal minority are simply refusing to grow up at all. And those are the douchebags attacking this filmmaker.

  130. 130
  131. 131
    Sentient Puddle says:

    @gene108:

    I just don’t see how the appearance of single-player protagonists, like Lara Croft or Nariko, are relevant to anything broader than sex appeal – even digitized sex appeal – can help sell a product.

    For a time back when the very first Tomb Raider came out, Lara Croft was actually seen as a strong female character and role model (such as they exist) for a significant number of female gamers. They certainly pissed that all away really fast, but I don’t think you can blithely say female characters are there just for the sex appeal. Never played Heavenly Sword, but from the impressions I got, Nariko falls in a similar boat.

    And hell, while we’re talking about Lara Croft, you can’t look at the latest trailer for the reboot and not say they’re walking along a very thin line. That one you really can’t wave your hand and say “sex appeal” at.

  132. 132
    Karen says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    I had the same “big boobs” problem, only the boys in high school and college had this idea that my big chest meant that I was fast.

    I disappointed a lot of boys.

  133. 133
    Hypatia's Momma says:

    @fuckwit:
    Well, these types of attacks are not at all just from a “small but vocal minority”, this behaviour isn’t just the regulars of 4chan or “Anonymous” (it’s fairly mainstream, actually), and a good percentage of them are not kids.

  134. 134
    Chris says:

    @fuckwit:

    And, sort of boiling out of that group, as a super hard-core cadre of absolutely vile and immature and homophobic assholes

    Don’t tell me. 27%, right?

  135. 135

    @jrg:

    Many assholes have access to the internet.

    For instance, you.

  136. 136
    Ben Franklin says:

    @geg6:

    You get the book for that.

    Ever noticed how Mass Media has men portraying themselves as hapless, dick-brained assholes who are continually experiencing the undeserved largesse of their betters? We get the demographic we deserve.

  137. 137
    gene108 says:

    @Comrade Mary:

    Just pointing out that people, who are defending her because of Youtube comments or past experiences with how they’ve been treated on the internet are not going to get those concerns addressed by her video series.

    The content of her video series is unrelated to the issues brought up on this forum about harassment women face, when playing multiuser games.

    Maybe I misread some posts, but I got the feeling Anita S.’s video series was expected to address those points in some way and bring those concerns out to the general public.

    You seem much more concerned that she’s dared to express the opinion that a certain female character is a Fighting Fuck Toy.

    Fighting (bleep) Toy (don’t blame me, I didn’t bleep out the word on her Kickstarter video) was her term.

    I’m guessing she’s talking about “sexy” heroines in video games, I could be wrong. She wasn’t specific.

    From the Kickstarter video, I don’t think she’ll break any new ground in saying things that haven’t already been said about how male dominated the gaming industry is in terms of people working in it and its content.

    In a nutshell, I’m probably not her target audience for her production.

    Maybe I should make a video about why feminist critiques of pop culture need to work harder to address the concerns of male audiences, in order to be more inclusive? {/snark}

    we have been discussing the vicious threats made to this specific woman—who doesn’t seem to get any sympathy from you.

    There’s been a lot said about how off base people have been in threatening Anita S. I didn’t really think I needed to throw my two cents into the discussion, since the ground seems to have been covered about how inappropriate personal attacks are.

    As far as anonymous threats on the internet go, I think law enforcement should be able to treat it like any other kind of threat via snail mail or phone and trace back the IP address and deal with the punk, who issued it.

    It’d cut down on a lot of the noise.

  138. 138
    The Moar You Know says:

    This is why I just shake my head and sigh when some starry-eyed optimist blathers on about how things will be just peachy once the Baby Boomers die off and our wonderful younger generation moves into prominence…because they’re so free of racism/homophobia/sexism compared to those yucky seniors, right?

    @InternetDragons: Up next; my cohort, Gen X.

    This country is going to be so fucked.

  139. 139
    gene108 says:

    @gene108:

    From the Kickstarter video, I don’t think she’ll break any new ground in saying things that haven’t already been said about how male dominated the gaming industry is in terms of people working in it and its content.

    Let me clarify.

    In her Kickstarter video she showed her earlier trope series and bitched about all the firefighters in Lego City being men and all the cooks being women.

    Their fuckin’ Legos. Rip the head off the women and stick on on the firefighter body and you have a female firefighter. If the hair unsnaps/hats unsnap (they used to, when I was a kid) unsnap the girl hair and swap it for the firefighter hat and you’ve made a female firefighter.

    Gender roles in Legos aren’t really that set in stone as to be relevant to anyone capable of unsnapping a few plastic parts from their pegs and resnapping them in different combinations.

  140. 140
    gene108 says:

    @Sentient Puddle:

    I don’t think you can blithely say female characters are there just for the sex appeal

    That’s the impression I got from her, in the Kickstarter video from her use of the term Fighting (bleep) Toy.

  141. 141
    Hypatia's Momma says:

    @gene108:
    Really? You don’t understand why any woman would “bitch” (thanks for the condescension there, by the way) about a toy that has, for decades, been non-gendered and enjoyed by all suddenly appearing in the Girls Section all pink and fluffy-like? Really?

  142. 142
    Corbin Dallas Multipass says:

    @gene108: You clearly haven’t watched the videos. The lego women from the set she was critiquing were actually made to be incompatible for one thing. Furthermore the emphasis wasn’t on what you could do with the legos but how Lego corporation’s marketing had changed over the years from gender neutral to extremely gendered in the most stereotyped ways.

  143. 143
    Mnemosyne says:

    @gene108:

    Maybe I misread some posts, but I got the feeling Anita S.’s video series was expected to address those points in some way and bring those concerns out to the general public.

    Yeah, you misread some posts. As far as I can tell, her video series was expected to address the gender roles of female characters in video games, but the huge explosion of assholery at her daring to examine anything related to gender has turned the conversation to gender-based internet assholery instead.

    She wasn’t planning to discuss gender-based internet assholery, but the jackasses who decided to threaten and harass her turned it in that direction.

  144. 144
    Walker says:

    @gene108:

    There is no requirement that anyone in Kickstarter deliver anything at all. No matter what they say about their goals. You are simply giving money as patronage and may or may not get anything in return. For known artists, this does not happen as their good name is their brand. But there appear to be quite a few scams on Kickstarter.

  145. 145
    YellowJournalism says:

    @Hypatia’s Momma: Oh god! Don’t get me started on those new Lego sets for girls. I have no problem with here being a pink box basic set hat has some more pink and purple pieces in it, but those new sets that have characters and are set in cutesy situations like ice cream shops ad puppy paroles just make my teeth gnash. They have very few pieces to them that don’t have a set purpose, so there’s less creativity than even he Lego Star Wars or Lego City sets. They’re basically Polly Pocket by Lego, and they’re WAY overpriced for what you get compared to other sets aimed at boys. It’s insulting how it basically was created under e assumption that girls aren’t going to be creative and imaginative as boys with a set of blocks.

  146. 146
    Hypatia's Momma says:

    @YellowJournalism:
    As someone who fought vicious battles with her siblings over Legos, Lincoln Logs, and Erector Sets, this recent round of “marketing to giiirrrls” causes my teeth to chatter from rage.

  147. 147
    jayackroyd says:

    This version totally dominates the room it’s in:

    http://www.artemisia-gentileschi.com/judith4.html

  148. 148
    Comrade Scrutinizer says:

    Is@jrgIs your name Dibbler? Cause you’re sure as hell cutting your own throat.

  149. 149
    elm says:

    You’re a funny person, jrg.

    Tom mentions “hreats of violence, death, sexual assault and rape” in the original post, and you reply that:

    I don’t see what there is to get worked up over.

    Yet when I write (quoting in full)

    @jrg: Stop digging. Read more and write less.You’ve clearly had the privilege of not being exposed to this toxic crap and it’s obvious that you’re ignorant about it too. You sound like a fool.

    That is where you draw the line?

    we’re getting into personal attacks (elm)

    So rape and death threats aren’t even worth noting, but using the f-word (fool) is. Got it.

  150. 150
    elm says:

    Post is stuck in moderation, here it is without any links.

    You’re a funny person, jrg.

    Tom mentions “hreats of violence, death, sexual assault and rape” in the original post, and you reply that:

    I don’t see what there is to get worked up over.

    Yet when I write (quoting in full)

    @jrg: Stop digging. Read more and write less.You’ve clearly had the privilege of not being exposed to this toxic crap and it’s obvious that you’re ignorant about it too. You sound like a fool.

    That is where you draw the line?

    we’re getting into personal attacks (elm)

    So rape and death threats aren’t even worth noting, but using the f-word (fool) is over the line. Got it.

  151. 151
    Calming Influence says:

    Late to the party as usual, but I’d love to comment on the art (Artemisia Gentileschi, Judith Beheading Holofernes, 1611-1612):

    Women of Balloon Juice, I’m afraid it’s up to you. As much as we pontificate and theorize and plan and advise and rattle on, men just aren’t gettin’ it done. The hole we are in just gets deeper.

    We don’t need bigger balls, we need more ovaries. Note the calm expression of Judith as she does away with whatsisname. There’s no rage, no anger. Judith decides whosits time is over, calls in a friend, and she deals with the asshole.

    Just sayin’, we could use a little more of this on the “touchy feely” side.

  152. 152
    Corbin Dallas Multipass says:

    As one of the backers to this project I’m happy you featured this story, Tom.

    For those of you interested in watching her videos, I would recommend going to Anita’s website:

    http://www.feministfrequency.com/

    and her youtube channel:

    https://www.youtube.com/user/feministfrequency

  153. 153

    I get that some folks hate and fear the reality of change in society, culture, the Way Things Ought To Be.

    If you don’t understand that this is the primary driver of the Right these days, then you are missing the point.

    It’s not about “policy”. Sure, there are a few “conservatives” who really do buy in to the idea that we need to go back to the 1920’s. Most, however, just use those policies as a blunt instrument against “the libs”. They don’t think it through. If “the libs” don’t like it, then it’s what we should do.

    “The libs”, themselves, are the problem to the Right. It’s not the 1950’s any more, and that’s because “the libs” couldn’t make it that world, so they re-shaped it. As a result, we now live in a world where nobody knows “where they stand”. You can’t just punch an uppity woman or minority. Nobody will slap you on the back and buy you a beer when you beat the crap out of a gay. People are routinely allowed to walk around looking differently than “the rules” dictate, and no price is exacted from them.

    You are now required to deal with people as individuals, rather than scoring them by how well they adhere to the “unwritten rules” and treating them accordingly.

  154. 154
    kay says:

    @Todd Dugdale:

    As a result, we now live in a world where nobody knows “where they stand”. You can’t just punch an uppity woman or minority. Nobody will slap you on the back and buy you a beer when you beat the crap out of a gay. People are routinely allowed to walk around looking differently than “the rules” dictate, and no price is exacted from them.

    I love this.

    I tell conservatives they refused to treat people decently on their own, so we had to make new rules and occasionally threaten to enforce them. I would have been all for them policing their own behavior and not harassing people on grounds OTHER than “it’s illegal”, but obviously they failed miserably at that.

    I myself have no problem following the “don’t beat up gay people” rule, or the “don’t sexually harass people at work” rule, I don’t find those rules or social norms restrictive or onerous, because I wasn’t doing those things anyway.

  155. 155
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    Sarkeesian is a grifting piece of shit.

    What she is doing is utterly calculated to piss of the gamer fan bios. Gamer fan bios are notoriously hyper sensitive to any criticism of their favorite game by an outsider and pathetically easy to troll. Fan bois make winguts look the picture of decorum and rationality. This has nothing to with sexism and everything to do with how the computer game industry manipulates their customers.

    What she did is exactly the same as going up to a group of black men, screaming the n word and then whining about how sexists black men are after they get pissed at her. (and yes blacks have a real reason to be sore, unlike the gamer twits)

  156. 156
    Sentient Puddle says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    What she did is exactly the same as going up to a group of black men, screaming the n word and then whining about how sexists black men are after they get pissed at her.

    No, this isn’t correct. And I’ll point you to why:

    (and yes blacks have a real reason to be sore, unlike the gamer twits)

    Inasmuch as she poked at a sore spot in the gamer community, the community brought it onto themselves by having a long and storied history of acting like such dicks in the first place. I don’t lay any blame at Sarkeesian’s feet on this one.

  157. 157

    […] I noted in yesterday’s post, we’re smack in the middle of just such a period right now.  The Way It Used To Be is simply […]

  158. 158
    Comrade Mary says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    This has nothing to with sexism and everything to do with how the computer game industry manipulates their customers.

    Agency. Gamerz don’t have it. Riiiiight.

  159. 159
    JG says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: Actually it’s like she, in the same town as an active bunch of KKK losers, dared to have a project that looked at the racist overtones of Civil War Reenactments and Confederacy Day festivals.

    Yelling the “n” word in a room of black men is attacking someone with hate speech. Doing a video series analyzing commercial products, last I checked, does none of that.

  160. 160
    DMcK says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: Some nice victim-blaming, there.

  161. 161
    RedKitten says:

    The more people that speak up—the more MEN that speak up—the less socially acceptable it will become for other men to act like fuckwads.

    Yup.

    It’s interesting. I remember reading an article buy some guy who said that ALL men should take it upon themselves to never, ever tell or condone the telling of any rape jokes. Why? Because real rapists genuinely DO believe that any and every other guy out there would rape women as well, if they just thought they could get away with it. So a rape joke, to them, is a sort of “in-joke”, reassuring him that hey, all the guys here feel the same way about these uppity bitches who tease you and then say no.

    So I think that much the same principle could apply here. If any and all decent guys would speak up loudly against this kind of shit, it would go a long way towards a) helping people realize that it’s not just we hysterical females who object to this, and b) marginalizing that kind of behaviour instead of tacitly tolerating/encouraging it.

  162. 162
    DMcK says:

    Here’s a nice dissection of the kind of culture Ms. Sarkeesian is attempting to shine a light on.

  163. 163

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