She’s Right

My first take on Hustler’s image of S.E. Cupp was “Was that the idiot who was on Bill Maher a few weeks back?” My second take was, “It’s Hustler, that’s what they do.”

But then I read this piece by Lindsay Beyerstein, and I have to say my first and second thoughts were wrong, and Lindsay is completely right:

I’d like to think that the scumbag(s) behind this feature hate reproductive rights as much as they hate outspoken women. How better to tarnish two objects of contempt at once? The more disturbing possibility is that the creators think of themselves as feminist allies.

The fight for birth control isn’t just about freeing up women to service men, as the guys at Hustler fervently hope. It’s about freeing women to participate fully in all spheres of life, including the public arena. We value women’s reproductive freedom because we value women’s freedom in general, including the freedom to express unpopular, offensive, and just plain ignorant views. Using sexualized attacks to silence women is antithetical to the struggle for reproductive rights.

She’s right.

*** Update ***

Also, too.

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261 replies
  1. 1
    Comrade Mary says:

    Thanks, John.

  2. 2
    satanicpanic says:

    This isn’t cool when the other side does it and it’s not cool when our side (is Hustler our side, yikes) does it.

  3. 3
    Alison says:

    It really drives me nuts when supposed “liberal” dudes think it’s fine to be sexist against conservative women because they’re conservative.

    No. It’s not. If someone has awful ideas or values or whatever, go after them for THAT. Cupp, Palin, etc, are awful people because they’re awful, not because they’re women. Misogyny is misogyny no matter the target, and it’s never okay. And trust me, most liberal feminists REALLY WOULD RATHER NOT have to defend people like them, so the sooner people drop that shit, the better.

  4. 4
    Arm The Homeless says:

    Woody Harrelson played Larry Flynt one time, so therefore Hustler is a Democratic ally.

    It’s an own-goal, but the question is whether the Village takes this as their “Both sides do it!” moment? Now that we have established that flesh mags are the political equivalent of Rush Limbaugh, every thing becomes more clear.

  5. 5
    Clime Acts says:

    She’s right.

    Oh bullshit, Cole. Cupp is a hateful pig who fights against most womens’ best interests. The policies she advocates would be responsible for countless unwanted pregnancies, back alley abortions, and general suffering.

    Weighing all of that against a photoshop job of her with a dick in her mouth, I have no sympathy.

    Hustler didn’t mock ALL women or ALL women pundits. It mocked Cupp because she is a woman pundit who is also a hateful, right wing nutjob pig.

    ETA: Hello, this is HUSTLER. It’s not as though this picture ran in The Nation.

  6. 6
    sfinny says:

    Absolutely yes, this pissed me off. I don’t care that she is the political opposition, none of this is OK. Hustler, though, is not my side. Not that it matters in condemning bad behavior.

  7. 7
    joes527 says:

    Good post. I’ve been equating this situation with the Limbaugh/Fluke situation in other threads. It is worth mentioning how they differ. (No, it isn’t that Cupp deserves it)

    It is that the assholes at hustler aren’t leading voices in a major political party. They are simply assholes.

    We should watch that enemy of my enemy shit. It will put you in bed with evil people if you are not careful.

  8. 8
    MikeJ says:

    You can’t really be pro sex unless you’re also pro woman.

  9. 9
    jeff says:

    I agree that it’s a disgusting photoshop and a sexist tactic. I would say I expect better from Hustler, but…it’s Hustler, the sleaziest publication I can think of outside the Washington Times.

  10. 10
    JasonF says:

    I think Lindsay is mostly, but not entirely right, but your first two thoughts are right, too — yes, Ms. Cupp was on Maher a few weeks ago, and yes, this is the sort of thing Hustler routinely does.

    As for Lindsay Beyerstein’s argument, here’s why I don’t completely buy it: Hustler is all about sexualizing women (but not because they speak out, merely because Hustler’s purpose is to titillate) and Hustler is also all about attacking the right (whether male right-winger or female right-winger). When those two missions coincide, you get things that look like they’re sexualizing women because they speak out, but really, they are just doing two separate things at the same time.

  11. 11
    Clime Acts says:

    The vast majority of us, including myself, would never have seen this image without the publicity you’re helping to give it here, Cole.

    Stop front paging links to right wing victim fantasies.

    Hello? It’s Hustler.

  12. 12
    gaz says:

    Who in their right mind would ever look to a rag like Hustler for any kind of profound insights on roles and rights of women in our society. That’s just fucking stupid, and I say this as a totally sex-positive person. It’s a porno mag FFS.

    Head meets desk.

  13. 13
    slag says:

    @joes527:

    We should watch that enemy of my enemy shit. It will put you in bed with evil people if you are not careful.

    Couldn’t agree more.

  14. 14
    Alison says:

    @Clime Acts: So go after her POLICY POSITIONS, go after her statements, her beliefs. But going after her in the way they did does none of that, and the sexual aspect of it was entirely unnecessary and inappropriate. If you don’t see that, then you need to piss off.

  15. 15
    gaz says:

    I find myself in agreement with Clime Acts @ #11 – not the other post. I don’t even know what to think about that, except to say that John’s on a bender. That’s the only thing that explains this.

  16. 16
    Jeff Spender says:

    Hustler’s what-have-you was just tasteless and inappropriate.

    But instead of just accepting it’s because the morons who did it are morons, we have to blame it on the liberals.

    Because these people are the most liberal liberals who ever liberaled (HA HA! I can’t remember who said that but I love this phrase).

    Gah. It’s just stupid.

  17. 17
    gaz says:

    @Jeff Spender:

    Hustler’s what-have-you was just tasteless and inappropriate.

    Yes. It’s Hustler. That’s their job. Why the front page on it?

  18. 18
    Jeff Spender says:

    @gaz:

    Yeah. Drawing attention to this was just poor taste.

    Bad form, Cole. I don’t often say this, but–I suppose this was more about the revelation you had than the content itself.

  19. 19
    Jon says:

    @Clime Acts:

    Yeah, I just can’t care about this kind of thing. Are conservatives as mad when they do this to a liberal woman? No. Are we as mad when they do this to a liberal woman? No.

    This is all about pointing out that the left are “hypocrites” and they “do it too.”

  20. 20
    Clime Acts says:

    @Alison:

    So go after her POLICY POSITIONS, go after her statements, her beliefs. But going after her in the way they did does none of that, and the sexual aspect of it was entirely unnecessary and inappropriate. If you don’t see that, then you need to piss off.

    Piss off, yourself, it’s HUSTLER, you moron.

    If you bothered to read the brief text accompanying the lovely photoshop image, you would know that this PORNO MAG DID actually go after her POLICY POSITIONS in you know, words.

    Do you normally go to Hustler for cogent political commentary of a respectful nature?

    I have no problem seeing right wing freaks mocked. I rather like it.

    And again I would like to note that I would never have known of this image without the efforts of the right wing wurlitzer and Cole’s assistance to it in providing links here.

  21. 21
    gaz says:

    @Alison: I agree Alison. It makes me kind of ashamed.

  22. 22
    butler says:

    Yeah. Drawing attention to this was just poor taste.

    Cole didn’t exactly break this. Conservatives are eating this up and splashing it far and wide. Planned Parenthood and Fluke have already come out in defense of Cupp and condemnation of Hustler. Its already out there.

  23. 23
    eemom says:

    This thread has the makings of a fine late evening flame war.

  24. 24
    Peregrinus says:

    @Jeff Spender:

    I think it’s only going to get more traction from here – it’s a chance for “bipartisan” action against an acceptable target like Hustler in which the target can’t really improve standing.

    (For what it’s worth, I think that yes, the image is misogynistic, and yes, that’s what Hustler specializes in. On the one hand I don’t think it’s much ado about nothing, but on the other this isn’t the least bit surprising.)

    @Jon:

    I don’t know that we’re not as mad when conservatives do this to a liberal woman. Rush’s weirdo fetishization of Sandra Fluke wasn’t quite the same thing as this, but had a lot of the same sleazy tropes in operation.

  25. 25
    MikeJ says:

    @eemom: No it doesn’t.

  26. 26
    Soonergrunt says:

    @MikeJ: There are a people who might have a nit to pick with you.

  27. 27
    Clime Acts says:

    This is the kind of thing that is much more about irrational, deep rooted American prudery than any imagined misogyny.

    Hate it when so called libs act as though mockery of a sexual nature is JUST THE WORST POSSIBLE, MOST OFFENSIVE THING that could ever happen.

    Please, Alison, get over yourself.

    A reminder: It’s HUSTLER. H-U-S-T-L-E-R.

    Not the NY Times. HUSTLER.

  28. 28
    satanicpanic says:

    @Clime Acts:

    Hustler didn’t mock ALL women or ALL women pundits. It mocked Cupp because she is a woman pundit who is also a hateful, right wing nutjob pig.

    Fine, but you don’t have to say someone put a dick in that lady’s mouth, which IIRC we’re all upset with George Tierney Jr. of Greenville, South Carolina for saying.

    ETA: Hello, this is HUSTLER. It’s not as though this picture ran in The Nation

    This is true.

  29. 29
    Jeff Spender says:

    @Alison:

    No. It’s not. If someone has awful ideas or values or whatever, go after them for THAT. Cupp, Palin, etc, are awful people because they’re awful, not because they’re women. Misogyny is misogyny no matter the target, and it’s never okay. And trust me, most liberal feminists REALLY WOULD RATHER NOT have to defend people like them, so the sooner people drop that shit, the better.

    I always hated all of the Ann Coulter adam’s apple jokes. There are a number of reasons to despise Ann Coulter, but that’s beyond the pale.

    I had a very conservative roommate. She was very socially liberal, but she was dealing with her parents’ influence and still supported conservatives. So she was all about Sarah Palin.

    What makes this interesting is that she majored in psychology with a specialization in sexuality. She was feminist and didn’t put up with any kind of objectification or misogyny. However, to help us survive the 2008 elections, we decided that the best way to do it was to play drinking games. Whenever McCain said “My friends…” or stuttered, I had to drink a shot. Whenever Obama said “hope” or “change” or any other kind of platitude, she had to drink.

    We ended up arguing over Palin’s cup size. It was good times, and the absurdity of it helped defuse the tension. Still, I feel somewhat guilty for that.

  30. 30
    middlewest says:

    This is one of the best days of Cupp’s life. This is why wingers do what they do, the hope they’ll stir up this kind of ugly shit. It makes them so fucking happy to believe that they’ve proven the rest of the world is as dark and vile as they are. The only “victim” here is good taste.

  31. 31
    gaz says:

    @butler: Cole didn’t break it, but Cole is furthering it. I for one, don’t come here to find a bunch of misogynist pornographic shit splayed all over the front page as though it’s somehow newsworthy. It’s not. It’s extremely low-brow bullshit, and even though I can sympathize with JC’s conclusion the question that looms larger to me is: How does this further any kind of discussion of women’s rights, or even point out some disgusting political hit job? It doesn’t. It’s tasteless and adds nothing of value.

    I’ve said enough on this thread. FFS, I’m done.

  32. 32
    Clime Acts says:

    @middlewest:

    Yes.

    ETA: Just realized this is entirely and completely one of JC’s expert “click/hit generator” threads.

    Why are we talking about Hustler magazine’s take on politics and the views of a misogynist right wing sex bomb pundit who happens to be female?

    Where are all the pics wingers put together of Hillary performing natural and unnatural acts? Why doesn’t Cole post links so we can discuss all of them?

  33. 33
    butler says:

    @Clime Acts:

    Do you normally go to Hustler for cogent political commentary of a respectful nature?

    I’ve never gone to Hustler for anything. I didn’t even realize it still existed.

    Nevertheless, this is shitty all around. Its stupid, mysogynist, insulting and offensive. It turns Cupp into a martyr. And it gives the right an ugly thing to point to and screech about mean liberals. I’ve already seen multiple references to this as proof of “The REAL war on women”.

    Awful in every way.

  34. 34
    Steeplejack says:

    “What Would S.E.Cupp Look Like with a Dick in Her Mouth?”

    Yeah, that’s out of bounds. Larry Flynt says “satire”? Bullshit.

    What would Larry Flynt look like with a rusty pitchfork* up his ass? Let’s see that picture.

    • © AsiangrrlMN Mfg. Co. Inc. “Rusty and trusty since 1985.”

  35. 35
    Redshift says:

    @MikeJ: “That’s not an argument, that’s just contradiction”

  36. 36
    Jeff Spender says:

    @Clime Acts:

    This is the kind of thing that is much more about irrational, deep rooted American prudery than any imagined misogyny. Hate it when so called libs act as though mockery of a sexual nature is JUST THE WORST POSSIBLE, MOST OFFENSIVE THING that could ever happen.

    I think you’re conflating prudery with bad taste and inappropriate nonsense. Prudery better describes laws that disallow women from breastfeeding in public.

    My reaction is not one born from a sense of prudery. On the contrary, I’m a very sex-positive person. What this is a vile depiction of a conservative woman, playing on misogynistic tropes.

  37. 37
    A Humble Lurker says:

    For those of you asking “Why bring it up, it’s Hustler!!” why does this blog have a ‘blogs we monitor and mock as needed’ thingie? Why the continuous mocking of Andrew Sullivan, Pink Himalayan salt lady, the Fonzie of Freedom, Limbaugh, and all the others who we already know are stupid and/or evil?

    Just sayin’.

  38. 38
    butler says:

    @gaz:

    I for one, don’t come here to find a bunch of misogynist pornographic shit splayed all over the front page as though it’s somehow newsworthy.

    As opposed to the various sexist, racist, or homophobic things that the right says which get posted here for discussion every day?

    How does this further any kind of discussion of women’s rights, or even point out some disgusting shit a repub says?

    How does demeaning a woman you disagree with as a sex object advance that discussion or those rights?

  39. 39
    jeff says:

    Why don’t you all shut your goddamned dick suckers!

  40. 40
    Steeplejack says:

    @jeff:

    Apparently you’re not familiar with the op-ed page of Jugzz?

  41. 41
    scav says:

    @Clime Acts: Funny thing about any position you take is that its from C L I M E A C T S. and thus either irrelevant or not offered in good faith.

  42. 42
    Clime Acts says:

    @butler:

    And it gives the right an ugly thing to point to and screech about mean liberals. I’ve already seen multiple references to this as proof of “The REAL war on women”.

    Why do you give a shit what “the right” says about anything? Fuck them.

    Since when does Hustler represent a responsible, mainstream voice in the MSM?

    You are playing the right wing victim game. Fuck them.

  43. 43
    Clime Acts says:

    @Steeplejack:

    Yeah, that’s out of bounds

    For Hustler Magazine? What galaxy are you from?

    Let’s see links to photoshopped pics of Hillary from the right so we can critique those and act outraged.

    You are buying into another right wing victim meme.

  44. 44
    Steeplejack says:

    @Soonergrunt:

    No, there aren’t.

  45. 45
    Jeff Spender says:

    @Clime Acts:

    Why do you give a shit what “the right” says about anything? Fuck them.

    As that horrible green muppet, Yoda, said, “That is why you fail.”

    The reason you have to care about what these people say is because this is what they load their guns with when they come to the fight.

    Apart from knowing what the opposition is saying and thinking, you have to know how to respond. More than that, you have to understand where their rhetoric comes from.

    As much as I hate to admit this, a lot of politics is based on stuff like this being fed to people who don’t pay much attention to politics or the news.

  46. 46
    butler says:

    @Clime Acts:

    Why do you give a shit what “the right” says about anything? Fuck them.

    Are we not fighting a war of ideals against them?

    Since when does Hustler represent a responsible, mainstream voice in the MSM?

    Since when is Hillary Rosen an Obama advisor? Since when is Harold Ford a top level Democratic representative? Since when is Bill Maher the leftist equivalent of Rush?

    Since when did facts matter when there’s a juicy story to tell?

    You are playing the right wing victim game. Fuck them.

    No, I’m trying to beat them, and preferably without my side falling too deep into the mud with them.

  47. 47
    Clime Acts says:

    @A Humble Lurker:

    Since when has HUSTLER MAGAZINE been a blog that is read and mocked regularly here?

  48. 48
    Rabble Arouser says:

    @eemom: Thems is fighting words…

  49. 49
    Abstruse says:

    It isn’t a victim fantasy and she didn’t “ask for it” by voicing her (disgusting) opinions. Some of the comments in this thread are made by some very stupid people.

  50. 50
    butler says:

    Since when has HUSTLER MAGAZINE been a blog that is read and mocked regularly here?

    You’ll notice that Hustler is never linked too. Cole linked to 2 other blogs who were commenting on the story.

  51. 51
    Jeff Spender says:

    @Clime Acts:

    Let’s see links to photoshopped pics of Hillary from the right so we can critique those and act outraged.

    Ah. So this is what it’s about.

    First of all, I’m not acting outraged. Second of all, I’m not playing into a right-wing victim meme. What I am doing is expressing my dismay that the sexual attack was mixed with a political attack.

    The political attack could be inferred to be from a liberal source, given the line about Ayn Rand. This means that they can advance the argument, no matter how tenuous, that liberals do this horrible stuff as well.

    We know that it was, in fact, assholes who did this, but it doesn’t hurt to express our dismay and say it is inappropriate.

  52. 52
    VincentN says:

    By the logic of some of the commenters on here, we shouldn’t have gotten mad at Rush Limbaugh for his comments about Fluke because it’s LIMBAUGH and that’s the sort of thing he does.

    Misogny is misogny. You don’t have to shed tears for Cupp but at least don’t act like this is okay simply because she’s a ‘bad’ person. This is the sort of thinking that leads to people laughing at prison rape jokes and the like.

  53. 53
    A Humble Lurker says:

    @Clime Acts:
    Way to miss the point. We know those blogs are stupid, we mock them anyway. We know Hustler is slime, were talking about/mocking it anyway. That’s the analogy.

  54. 54
    satanicpanic says:

    @butler: This is approaching a Jane Hamshers of the Left level of lawyering on CA’s part. I didn’t know we were limited to only mocking the blogs on the list.

  55. 55
    Soonergrunt says:

    @butler: It is annoying if, for no other reason than this:

    It turns Cupp into a martyr. And it gives the right an ugly thing to point to and screech about mean liberals. I’ve already seen multiple references to this as proof of “The REAL war on women”.

    S.E. Cupp is a first class moron, and there is plenty of reason to hate on her. But all of that reason comes from what she says and claims to believe and support. It has nothing to do with whether or not she is a she.
    That said, Hustler is the magazine that gave us Jerry Fallwell and his mother in an out-house.
    I’m not entirely sure that one jerkass conservative activist who works to damage women’s interests is any more deserving than another jerkass conservative activist who works to damage women’s interests just because she has two X chromosomes instead of X and Y.

  56. 56
    Steeplejack says:

    @VincentN:

    Well said.

  57. 57
    Clime Acts says:

    @VincentN:

    By the logic of some of the commenters on here, we shouldn’t have gotten mad at Rush Limbaugh for his comments about Fluke because it’s LIMBAUGH and that’s the sort of thing he does.

    So it’s your opinion that HUSTLER MAGAZINE’s position of influence in the pantheon of American political discourse is equal to that of Rush Limbaugh’s? I don’t know…maybe it is. Could only be an improvement.

    You’re being ridiculous.

  58. 58
    Jeff Spender says:

    @Clime Acts:

    So it’s your opinion that HUSTLER MAGAZINE’s position of influence in the pantheon of American political discourse is equal to that of Rush Limbaugh’s? I don’t know…maybe it is. Could only be an improvement.

    That’s…not right. What is true is that Hustler has a relatively wide circulation and is an easy target for social conservatives to latch on to.

    so it will spread in the media because of 1) Hustler’s popularity and 2) because it’s an easy target.

  59. 59
    Bnut says:

    People still pay for porn?

  60. 60
    hilzoy says:

    @Clime Acts: “Weighing all of that against a photoshop job of her with a dick in her mouth, I have no sympathy.”

    Weighing Tom Friedman’s “Suck on this” tirade against the Great Leap Forward or the Holocaust, I don’t find that it measures on my outrage scale. But why do we have to weigh things? Why can’t we just say: people shouldn’t be jerks, whether to people we agree with or to people we disagree with? Or: you should be able to participate in public discourse, even if you’re an idiot, without having someone photoshop a dick in your mouth? And why can’t we say this even if we also say: reproductive rights matter and SE Cupp is silly?

  61. 61
    Tim in SF says:

    Nobody, right or left, bats an eye at any of the gay baiting or emasculating comments coming out of the endless stream from the right.

    But Hustler, HUSTLER! prints something off-color and people get their panties in a twist.

    WHATEVER. YOU can go defend S.E. Cupp. I, for one, wouldn’t piss on her if she were on fire.

  62. 62
    rageahol says:

    @joes527: you are already in bed with evil people, whether you know it or not.

    I personally couldn’t give a poop about the purported purpose of this photoshop pictorial.

    by popularizing it, you are implying that mr. flynt is an ally of the left. he may be an ally of free speech, but that can go either way. by linking it, you are owning it for the nominal left, painting it as an operative who’s out of pocket rather than “oh, that’s kind of uncool [ignore].”

    good job, fuckwits.

  63. 63
    bk says:

    Before today, she was just another wingnut whose claim to fame was that she was known as “Sippy Cupp”. Now she is a wingnut hero, and look for her on a news show near you for the next few years. THAT’S what pisses me off the most.

  64. 64
    VincentN says:

    @Clime Acts:

    So it’s your opinion that HUSTLER MAGAZINE’s position of influence in the pantheon of American political discourse is equal to that of Rush Limbaugh’s? I don’t know…maybe it is. Could only be an improvement.

    I’m not sure why that’s relevant. And I’m not sure why you’re so mad about this. Okay, you don’t think this story is important or worth talking about. Fair enough.

    But why go into a frenzy just because we’re discussing this subject at all? Stupid stuff gets posted on the front page all the time and then we go nuts talking about it. It’s kinda what Balloon Juice is about. It’s not like anything we say here really matters.

    You got to relax. Go wait for a blog post more to your liking to emerge.

  65. 65
    Reinhold McSnake says:

    Anybody who reads Hustler knows that they’ve been Photoshopping dicks into the mouths of various well-known women for years. Interesting that the right’s rage-machine became activated for this specific instance and not Rachel Maddow’s similar appearance.

  66. 66
    Jeff Spender says:

    @rageahol:

    by popularizing it, you are implying that mr. flynt is an ally of the left. he may be an ally of free speech, but that can go either way. by linking it, you are owning it for the nominal left, painting it as an operative who’s out of pocket rather than “oh, that’s kind of uncool [ignore].”

    This statement isn’t logical.

    Perhaps you should lay off the rage. (heh…)

  67. 67
    rageahol says:

    @Jeff Spender:

    the line about ayn rand does not turn it into an either/or or left/right proposition. only a turdgoblin incapable of non-absolutist thinking would say such a thing.

    get fucked, also too.

  68. 68
    bk says:

    @Soonergrunt: Yes, and the Supreme Court decided in his favor, and I knew the lead attorney representing him. Imagine that case coming before today’s Court.

  69. 69
    rageahol says:

    @Jeff Spender: DO I NEED TO USE SMALLER WORDS FOR YOU?

  70. 70
    mouse tolliver says:

    For balance, here’s a picture of a male political figure with a great big #@%&* in his mouth.

  71. 71
    handy says:

    So how long before Obama apologizes for Hustler and invites Sippy Cupp over for a beer on the South Lawn?

  72. 72
    Clime Acts says:

    @VincentN:

    What makes you think I am in a frenzy? :D

  73. 73
    Jeff Spender says:

    @Reinhold McSnake:

    Interesting that the right’s rage-machine became activated for this specific instance and not Rachel Maddow’s similar appearance.

    I, for one, don’t read Hustler. So I didn’t know about them. I know about this because it has exposure, which is half the reason we’re commenting on it. It’s not like I go out and find instances of this stuff. I don’t really like to know what morons are saying on a daily basis because it depresses me.

  74. 74
    John Cole says:

    This may be the saddest thread in Balloon Juice history, although it is having the benefit of exposing the misogynist assholes and those with logic disorders.

    Apparently, to the brain damaged few, it is:

    1.) Ok to use vulgar sexualized imagery against ideological opponents.

    2.) Me mentioning this is and condemning it is doing more damage than the actual Hustler piece because “NO ONE WOULD HAVE KNOWN OTHERWISE.”

    Clime Acts and Gaz, you’re fucking morons. Thanks for making it so easy to ignore you in the future.

    Don’t like Cupps viewpoints? Fine. Attack her viewpoints. Act like it is ok to attack her in the way Hustler did, and you are part of the fucking problem.

  75. 75
  76. 76
    gnomedad says:

    @Redshift:
    No, it isn’t!

  77. 77
    Jeff Spender says:

    @rageahol:

    the line about ayn rand does not turn it into an either/or or left/right proposition. only a turdgoblin incapable of non-absolutist thinking would say such a thing.

    I don’t think that it does. If you look for the context of what I was saying, this is how it can be interpreted from a right-wing framing perspective, which is actually what they’re doing.

    @rageahol:

    DO I NEED TO USE SMALLER WORDS FOR YOU?

    I think you need to calm down. I disagree that we’re popularizing it, and that by talking about it we’re giving tacit approval to the message, and owning it.

    It’s illogical because it doesn’t follow. We’re not really popularizing it because it’s already in the media sphere, and we’re not giving it tacit approval, and thus owning it, because we’re actually condemning it.

    What this does do is give us an opportunity to discuss misogyny in various forms and how vile it all is, from any origin.

  78. 78
    handy says:

    @John Cole:

    Wait.Seriously? I mean, I read crap in comments all the time here about Rush Limbaugh and things going in and out of his various orifices, but people go “meh” when some juvenile idiots at Hustler go crazy with the P-Shop and we’re all supposed to rend our garments in sackcloth and ashes? Not endorsing either kinds of action, just wondering why we have an example here of GONE. TOO. FAR!!!1!1!1

  79. 79
    John Cole says:

    @Tim in SF:

    Nobody, right or left, bats an eye at any of the gay baiting or emasculating comments coming out of the endless stream from the right.

    Actually, we do. Right here. Every fucking day.

    Take your bullshit excuses for misogyny elsewhere.

  80. 80
    rageahol says:

    @John Cole:

    uh,

    by even fucking mentioning it, rather than leaving right wingers to victim-gasm over it without comment, you are implying that Mr. Flynt is “one of ours.”

    you’re the one that’s own-goal-ing, not hustler. you’re the one who’s playing hamsher this time.

    bravo.

  81. 81
    Jeff Spender says:

    @John Cole:

    2.) Me mentioning this is and condemning it is doing more damage than the actual Hustler piece because “NO ONE WOULD HAVE KNOWN OTHERWISE.”

    I noticed that the real focus of this post was the part where you were condemning it. To condemn it, you have to mention it, and to mention it, you probably have to link it for evidence.

    So I apologize that I said, earlier, that it was in bad taste. I sometimes get too mixed up in the object and not the content. It’s good to call this shit out and separate the bullshit from the salient points.

  82. 82
    rageahol says:

    @Jeff Spender:
    “it’s already in the media sphere”

    we are all Katie Couric now.

  83. 83
    Jeff Spender says:

    @rageahol:

    by even fucking mentioning it, rather than leaving right wingers to victim-gasm over it without comment, you are implying that Mr. Flynt is “one of ours.”

    How? How does this make any sense?

    How do you get from mentioning something like this in a post in order to condemn it to implying that Flynt is one of ours?

    Have you ever heard of the non-sequiter?

    Or do you have an actual argument?

  84. 84
    AxelFoley says:

    Is it wrong of me to think “So what?” If this broad is a wingnut, I don’t feel sorry for her or any rightwing female who thinks like her.

    Fuck her. Fuck all them broads on Fox News, fuck Michelle Malkin, fuck Ann Coulter, fuck ’em all.

    Ya’ll want to play nice with these fuckers. I don’t play nice with douchebags that have to qualms about being underhanded, I play to win. Let President Obama and other elected Dems and their spokespeople stay above the fray. The rest of us can get down and dirty with the Repugs.

  85. 85
    Jeff Spender says:

    @rageahol:

    we are all Katie Couric now.

    Again, do you have an actual argument or are you just going to hurl insults and dated internet memes at me?

  86. 86
    rageahol says:

    @Jeff Spender:

    you dont think that either condemning or agreeing with something publicly, IN AND OF ITSELF, implies some kind of relationship?

    can you not see how by commenting at all, it becomes an albatross?

    are you that dim?

  87. 87
    freelancer says:

    Cole,

    I love your writing because you’re one of the few bipartisan centrists who realize that both sides do it, where “it” is pretty much any bad thing like a porno mag mysogynistically photoshopping a wang into some asshole’s mouth and calling it “political commentary”, or a political commentator singling out a private citizen calling her a “slut”. You’re like the West Virginia David Broder. Have you always been so fair and balanced or is it something you learn over time as an owner of both a cat and dogs?

    /dougj, master troll
    FWIW, I agree. This is one of those things. Not helpful to anyone.

  88. 88
    burnspbesq says:

    @Clime Acts:

    And again I would like to note that I would never have known of this image without the efforts of the right wing wurlitzer and Cole’s assistance to it in providing links here.

    If you don’t like Cole’s editorial judgment, the door’s right over there.

  89. 89
    Reinhold McSnake says:

    @Jeff Spender: My point is that the rage machine is being activate partially predicated on this:

    She wondered whether there would be significant outrage if this magazine had done something similar to Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) or First Lady Michelle Obama.

    Pretty positive Michelle Obama has definitely appeared in that same feature. S.E. Cupp acts like there hasn’t been a longstanding feminist critique of Hustler going back years before Cupp herself was even born.

    The whole thing just reeks of bad faith victimology. The suggestion that Hustler magazine’s influence on the left and Rush Limbaugh’s influence on the right are anywhere near equal is totally laughable.

  90. 90
    LT says:

    This is just nuts. Ways the good Lindsay Beyerstein is wrong here:

    • She’s acting like Hustler is an accepted member of a group of polite commenters on political issues. Just so wrong.

    • She’s playing into the RW’s attempt to make things like this the “real” war on women, as opposed to the current crop of RW legislation that deservedly got the moniker. You can argue easily that Hustler is part of a larger WoW – but pretending that its part of the Republican legislative one is just wrongheaded in the extreme. The Republican WoW needs attention. and asshole fucks like SE Cupp who serve it need attention and scrutiny, not support in their diversions.

    • She’s also playing into the lie that this is the same as Limbaugh calling Sandra Fluke a slut. I dont’ need to explain how wrong that it.

    • If yo uwant to go after Hustler – go after Hustler. And it would really help if you think Hustler has done some terrible offense here if you’ve been consistient on this over the years. This is WHAT HUSTLER DOES. Exactly. Every issue. For decades. And the Supreme Court said they have a right to do it, just by the way.

  91. 91
    rageahol says:

    @Jeff Spender:

    you know, i’m not sure i can better illustrate the political principle that cole has stepped in here and tracked all over the house except maybe with the old saw about LBJ:

    “It’s like that old story about LBJ spreading a rumor that his opponent was a pig-fucker. You can’t say that, it’s a lie, Johnson’s campaign manager told him. “I know,” he replied, “I just want to make him deny it.””

    from
    http://www.motherjones.com/kev.....nty-zombie

  92. 92
    John Cole says:

    @rageahol:

    by even fucking mentioning it, rather than leaving right wingers to victim-gasm over it without comment, you are implying that Mr. Flynt is “one of ours.”

    So when I condemned the vicious attacks Rush Limabugh made on Sandra Fluke, I was claiming Limbaugh as a member of the left

    Some of you people are too stupid to breathe, let alone breed.

  93. 93
    Cade DeBois (@lifepostepic) says:

    I think the argument for denouncing what Hustler did makes itself when you looks at how “liberals” are objecting to showing any ounce of compassionate or liberal-minded principles toward Cupp.

    “She’s a big, mean Republican who hurt Obama’s feelings. BOOOOOOOOO! I won’t stand with HER!” It’s not about Obama or our different ideologies. It about silencing and discrediting women who seek to participate in politics. Could we try to keep our eye of the ball here?

    “Hustler does this all the time to a lot of women. Why should I care now?” Yes, why start caring now, since you couldn’t be bothered before when it was being done to women you didn’t despise as much.

    “Just another dumb conservative woman who shot her mouth off and pissed off the wrong man (who wants to fuck her cuz she’s hot–even I’d hit that!!!). Pfft. She had it coming. Next!” Heh. With friends like these.

    “Why should I care that some woman has been attacked when (according to my HIGHLY selective memory) no one on the left ever says anything when the right says crap about gays.” It’s not like ANYONE on the left has batted an eye int eh a last few days over that pastor who wants to throw gays in concentration camps and let them die out, or like any other homophobic comment ever made by anyone on the right that would help make the liberals’ case against them No, we’re too busy picking our ass cracks and whining about this stoopid War on Women.

    Yeah, thanks, liberals. Nice to know you’re with us women when it’s the selection of women you approve of.

  94. 94
    freelancer says:

    @LT:

    Dude, clear your cache and cookies, restart your browser, and stop mashing the goddamned “Submit Comment” button.

  95. 95
    LT says:

    Christ. Sorry, John. those comments were stuck forever – had to x out of them – but they had posted. Sorry.

  96. 96
    Clime Acts says:

    @John Cole:

    Thanks for making it so easy to ignore you in the future.

    Hey, fuck you, Cole. You’re obviously drunk again.

    Pathetic.

    It’s just so weird how someone who voted twice for GWB and was a raging far right wartard just a short time ago, is now an expert on all things progressive and democratic.

    You’re just as stupid and incapable of critical, non-emo thought now as your were then. You just switched teams and changed the color of your pom pons.

    Also too, a raging drunk.

  97. 97
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    This entire kerfuffle benefits two attention whores. SE Cupp and Larry Flynt.

    Both are winning. Everyone else loses.

  98. 98
    handy says:

    @Clime Acts:

    Also too, a raging drunk.

    Heh. Ouch.

  99. 99
    Yutsano says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: Indeed. But this thread was destined to train wreck. And Special Timmeh just got diarrhea of the mouth. I’m making popcorn.

  100. 100
    Clime Acts says:

    @John Cole:

    Act like it is ok to attack her in the way Hustler did, and you are part of the fucking problem.

    Cause you have such a solid history of progressive thinking . Let’s talk about all the war dead on your conscience…again.

    YOU AND A FEW OTHER MAROONS here are the only ones pretending that fucking HUSTLER magazine speaks for the left.

    Maybe you are still a wingnut. But now your specialty is ratfucking.

  101. 101
    rageahol says:

    @John Cole: was sandra fluke arguing against positions you publicly identify with?

    because i think that might be a substantial difference there.

  102. 102
    Clime Acts says:

    @John Cole:

    Take your bullshit excuses for misogyny elsewhere.

    Cause Cole’s history of feminism goes back decades.

    Not.

  103. 103
    burnspbesq says:

    So, let’s recap.

    The proprietor of a blog whose front-pagers and commenters routinely use the terms “fellatio” and “blowjob” to describe favorable media coverage of public figures of whom they disapprove, has a road-to-Damascus moment and belatedly realizes that such imagery is not funny, or cute, or snarky, or edgy.

    Could this road-to-Damascus moment lead to a physician-heal-thyself moment?

    Naah. How silly of me.

  104. 104
    Clime Acts says:

    @rageahol:

    by even fucking mentioning it, rather than leaving right wingers to victim-gasm over it without comment, you are implying that Mr. Flynt is “one of ours.”

    Bingo.

    Cole’s drunk again. I wonder what he’s trying to block out of his thoughts tonight?

  105. 105
    rageahol says:

    @Cade DeBois (@lifepostepic):
    if you want to cast your lot with Phyllis Schlafly, SE Cupp, et al I’m happy to ignore attacks on you by gutter-dwellers just like I’m happy to ignore attacks on them by gutter-dwellers.

    to do otherwise would be concern trolling.

  106. 106
    The prophet Nostradumbass says:

    @Clime Acts:

    Thanks for making it so easy to ignore you in the future.

    so then, you’re leaving? Good.

  107. 107
    rageahol says:

    WE MUST HAVE CIVILITY IN THIS DISCOURSE!

  108. 108
    burnspbesq says:

    @Clime Acts:

    Cole’s drunk again. I wonder what he’s trying to block out of his thoughts tonight

    Project much?

  109. 109
    burnspbesq says:

    @rageahol:

    You have a problem with civility?

  110. 110
    LT says:

    @John Cole:

    “So when I condemned the vicious attacks Rush Limabugh made on Sandra Fluke, I was claiming Limbaugh as a member of the left.”

    That’s the wrong way to look at it. What I think LB, and you and others, have done here is equivalent to buying into a twisted form of “everyone does it.” The only reason you know about this is because the RW went into “See! The Left are the real women haters!” ragegasm about it. By simply agreeing with them about the Hustler picture – and ignoring their obvious distraction – you act like the distraction doesn’t exist, and you do feed their lies, whether you mean to or not. SE Cupp goes on TV all the fucking time, and lies. And lies. And lies. And she feeds and aids a political agenda that actually hurts women. (And others.) Being holier than thou about a magazine that nobody even fucking thinks about over that is just dumb.

  111. 111
    burnspbesq says:

    @Yutsano:

    I’m making popcorn.

    Are you sharing?

  112. 112
    LT says:

    @John Cole:

    So when I condemned the vicious attacks Rush Limabugh made on Sandra Fluke, I was claiming Limbaugh as a member of the left?

    And your linking to Emily Hauser – who implies exactly that Hustler is on the Left – isn’t helping you there.

  113. 113
    burnspbesq says:

    @LT:

    SE Cupp goes on TV all the fucking time, and lies. And lies. And lies. And she feeds and aids a political agenda that actually hurts women.

    I wouldn’t know S.E. Cupp from S.E. Hinton, so for purposes of discussion I’ll assume that statement is accurate. If so, then what is justified is to take her on on substance, not to Photoshop a dick into her mouth. It’s wrong regardless of who does and regardless of why it’s done.

  114. 114
    Yutsano says:

    @burnspbesq: I might as well. Since this thread will produce neither heat nor light I might as well do something here.

  115. 115
    LT says:

    @burnspbesq:

    Bill Maher has her on. Fox News too.

    Picture this: Rush Limbaugh, after calling Fluke a slut for days, says “Oh look! Someone on the Left called me a bad word!” What’s happening here: Cole and LB and the gang are going, “Oh, gee whiz, you know, that really is a bad word…”

    It’s just not good or smart. Hey – my opinion.

  116. 116
    Joey Maloney says:

    @MikeJ: But I don’t have to be pro-EVERY woman to be pro-woman. I’m not pro-Phyllis Schlafly. I’m not pro-Maggie Gallagher. To the extent I’m even aware of Sipp E. Cupp (which isn’t far) I’m not pro-her.

    That said, Hustler’s little exercise stinks, not because it’s sexually humiliating but because it fails as satire. As a counterexample, I remember a cartoon from the early ’80s. It showed Margaret Thatcher pegging Ronald Reagan with a strapon, at the same time she was fellating some other leader, I forget who. The artist’s intention was almost certainly to ridicule and humiliate the Iron Lady, but also to make a point about the political situation of the day.

    There’s nothing of that here, just HURR HURR WE HAZ PHOTOSHOP. Yeah, good for you. Now if they had shown Cupp, I don’t know, sucking Rush Limbaugh’s dick and crapping out little teabags on the chair next to Steve Doocy (or something like that but actually funny as opposed to my lame top-of-the-head example) that would be defensible.

  117. 117
    LT says:

    @burnspbesq:

    “It’s wrong regardless of who does and regardless of why it’s done.”

    And you an point ot where you’ve condemned hustler before for doing this exact thing?

  118. 118
    Clime Acts says:

    Is it just me or does it seem of late that Cole only engages in comments when he’s wasted?

    Get some twelve step or professional help, John.

    You’re embarrassing yourself.

  119. 119
    LT says:

    John – please don’t mix me up with Clima Acts. I disagree with you, that’s all.

  120. 120
    The Moar You Know says:

    Awesome, a Balloon Juice shit fight. I live for these.

  121. 121
    Clime Acts says:

    @LT:

    John – please don’t mix me up with Clima Acts. I disagree with you, that’s all.

    Oh you sniveling, groveling, little back stabber…

  122. 122
    John Cole says:

    Is it just me or does it seem of late that Cole only engages in comments when he’s wasted? Get some twelve step or professional help, John. You’re embarrassing yourself.

    I’ve had 4 glasses of water from a pur filter, a diet peach snapple, a fresca, and not a touch of booze this evening.

    You, on the other hand, have drunk deeply from the bottle of gay misogyny.

  123. 123
    LT says:

    @Clime Acts:

    Oh you sniveling, groveling, little back stabber…

    “Backstabber”? What the fuck gave yo the impression that I was ever anywhere near you, you fuck? I think Cole’s wrong. I don’t think he’s an asshole or idiot, just wrong. This:

    Get some twelve step or professional help, John.
    __
    You’re embarrassing yourself.

    is you being a fucking asshole.

  124. 124
    John Cole says:

    @Clime Acts: You really don’t understand how much everyone views you as an ugly, reprehensible, vile, disgusting human being, do you? THEY DISAGREE WITH ME, THEY MUST BE SCUM!

    I guess being oblivious is a solid defense mechanism.

  125. 125
    Clime Acts says:

    @John Cole:

    Don’t believe you.

    You, on the other hand, have drunk deeply from the bottle of gay misogyny.

    hahahaha…

    Ah yes, lectured on misogyny by the wartard, GWB-loving wingnut Republican who claims instantly, magically to have seen the light just a few years ago…get back to me when you’ve been in and out of rehab a while, and have a couple of decades of clear headedness behind you.

  126. 126
    Clime Acts says:

    @LT:

    ooh…someone’s a little intense tonight.

    Are you telling me you’re denying the emails we exchanged before throwing down with Cole in this thread?

  127. 127
    Richard Shindledecker says:

    Gotta go to sleep – it’s late – but must say Lindsey’s usually right. She’s one of the best of this City – and has been for years!

  128. 128
    suzanne says:

    @LT:

    This is WHAT HUSTLER DOES. Exactly. Every issue. For decades. And the Supreme Court said they have a right to do it, just by the way.

    And your point, caller, is….?
    This is fucking stupid. So it’s okay for Hustler to objectify women because they have such a grand and glorious history of doing so?
    And, OOOOHHHH! The Supreme Court said that they could do this shit and not violate the First Amendment? Well, CLEARLY it’s then morally acceptable!

    With logic like that, you could be the next Prejean.

  129. 129
    eemom says:

    @John Cole:

    This may be the saddest thread in Balloon Juice history

    Cole, you are such a fucking PeeCee Wannabe drama queen.

    Maybe it’s guilt over all those years of being a republitard.

  130. 130

    @John Cole: Remember this shit’s performance in the Jerry Sandusky threads? None of his comments here should be in any way surprising. He’s a hateful, disgusting sack of shit. I am amazed that you have been so patient with him.

  131. 131
    eemom says:

    @LT:

    This time, I agree with you.

  132. 132
    Clime Acts says:

    @John Cole:

    You really don’t understand how much everyone views you as an ugly, reprehensible, vile, disgusting human being, do you?

    Wow.

    Why would I care what a bunch of anonymous morons on a blog think that they think about another anonymous moron on the Internet?

    Put down the booze, stop hiding from the world behind your animals, and come out of the closet; then you can lecture me on my personal qualities.

  133. 133
    Cacti says:

    People getting offended at Hustler magazine?

    Seriously?

    Seriously??

    This is the magazine that was sued by Jerry Falwell for publishing a phony Campari ad where ol’ Jer was reminiscing about losing his virginity to his mother in an outhouse.

  134. 134
    Emma Anne says:

    John, thanks for this. I really hope other progressive men will take a moment to see why this sort of thing is an attack on all women who speak out and not just on a specific person. That is the point of slurs, and their power.

  135. 135
    Clime Acts says:

    @eemom:

    Cole, you are such a fucking PeeCee Wannabe drama queen.
    Maybe it’s guilt over all those years of being a republitard.

    Bingo.

  136. 136
    Quaker in a Basement says:

    I’d volunteer to join the Hustler boycott, but I don’t buy their magazine. I also have no idea who their advertisers are, but if I knew, I doubt I would have any patronage to withdraw.

    Larry Flynt fashions himself a First Amendment crusader in pursuit of his own gain. He’s no friend to the left.

  137. 137
    eemom says:

    @eemom:

    This thread has the makings of a fine late evening flame war.

    A girl can at least get an I TOLD YOU SO in here.

  138. 138
    suzanne says:

    @eemom: So you mock the disabled in addition to fat people. A quality human you are.

  139. 139
    Kane says:

    Hustler has an image of S.E. Cupp with a dick in her mouth, but that means there wasn’t an image of someone else with a dick in their mouth. That’s the beauty of the free market, right?

  140. 140
    Dave says:

    Fuck “s.e. cupp,” and fuck hustler magazine. And, uh, like, whatever, fuck everyone who cares. Fuck you, too.

  141. 141
    eemom says:

    @LT:

    What I think LB, and you and others, have done here is equivalent to buying into a twisted form of “everyone does it.” The only reason you know about this is because the RW went into “See! The Left are the real women haters!” ragegasm about it. By simply agreeing with them about the Hustler picture – and ignoring their obvious distraction – you act like the distraction doesn’t exist, and you do feed their lies, whether you mean to or not. SE Cupp goes on TV all the fucking time, and lies. And lies. And lies. And she feeds and aids a political agenda that actually hurts women. (And others.) Being holier than thou about a magazine that nobody even fucking thinks about over that is just dumb.

    Correctomundo.

  142. 142
    Cacti says:

    @Quaker in a Basement:

    Larry Flynt fashions himself a First Amendment crusader in pursuit of his own gain. He’s no friend to the left.

    This, a thousand times.

    Shock and outrage are Larry Flynt’s bread and butter. People talk about how Hustler “crossed the line this time,” Larry Flynt gets free publicity, eyeballs, and $$$.

    Maybe tomorrow, Cole can do some navel gazing on how easily he was snookered by the same bit Larry Flynt’s been doing for the last four decades.

  143. 143
    eemom says:

    @suzanne:

    Look little girl, why don’t you just get off your Little Pony and try some reading comprehension for once? You might actually learn something.

  144. 144
    Keith says:

    You’re actually posting to complain about something that *Hustler* put out? Seriously, you can still catch up to the turnip truck if you run fast enough…

    Look, this is a manufactured Sister Souljah moment whereby right-wingers go on the radio drumming up outrage about some slight by *someone*. Then, you end up falling into the trap by wanting to appear even-handed (ala Stewart/Colbert) and thus jumping into the issue yourself; however, no matter how much better you feel about yourself for projected chivalry, YOU WILL NOT GET CREDIT FOR IT. As far as the noise machine is concered, Larry Flynt is now an Obama advisor and *obviously* a liberal.

  145. 145

    @eemom: You should be worried, Clime Acts is agreeing with you.

  146. 146
    mouse tolliver says:

    This picture was in the print version of Hustler. That means somebody didn’t just accidentally stumble across this image while Googling SE Cupp. They must’ve found this picture that offended them so much while they were fapping to an issue of Hustler magazine.

  147. 147
    Bnut says:

    Stopped in to check this thread out before bed. Left like this.

  148. 148
    Brachiator says:

    But then I read this piece by Lindsay Beyerstein, and I have to say my first and second thoughts were wrong, and Lindsay is completely right

    Nope. This is just pearl clutching.

    Hustler is vile, and they tend to take the low road, but they are still on the path of civil liberties. The same can not be said of conservatives.

    Flynt knows that he is a crude asshole, and wallows in the filth. Limbaugh acted as though he held the moral high ground. Big difference, among many others. And Flynt has featured some despicable characters in cartoons as protagonists, including a pedophile character. To spend a great deal of time bashing him for insensitivity would be like cussing out your shoe because you stepped in shit. It’s equally dumbass to suggest that Flynt is displaying some special animus towards strong women. He views the entire world from a warped perspective.

    And don’t people love to invoke the fable of the scorpion and the frog? Larry Flynt is the freaking Scorpion King. Why are you so shocked and outraged when he is true to his nature?

    In my book, conservative women who would take women’s rights away and who think that rape victims should be baby incubators are scorpions as well. They cannot claim the protections of any kind of feminist sisterhood while actively working to harm women.

  149. 149
    A Humble Lurker says:

    @Clime Acts:
    There’s an edit button, you know.

  150. 150
    eemom says:

    @The prophet Nostradumbass:

    I’ll never worry as long as I have you for my own personal little troll, ‘dumbass. You are so very reliable in that respect.

  151. 151

    @eemom: Congratulations, you’re starting to sound like Derf. Exchange the word “groupie” for “troll”, and you’d be indistinguishable.

  152. 152
    Kane says:

    The first thing out of S.E. Cupp’s mouth (no pun intended) was to bring up the names of Nancy Pelosi and Michelle Obama, attempting to score political points by making this a left vs right issue. That tells you all you need to know about Ms Cupp.

  153. 153
    eemom says:

    @The prophet Nostradumbass:

    wow, pretty quick on the retort there, dumbie. Your mom helping you?

  154. 154
    Mac G says:

    Those links were great and the points were valid. Being an ass hole towards women is not reserved only for one world view of men.

    The problem is with the editor of Hustler magazine and I am struggling that we are implicitly on the side of defending them like it was someone over writing for Think Progress.

    The picture was in poor taste and wrong. I just do not believe that this terrible photoshop running in a porno rag means the same as the other legit misogyny issues that liberal leaning media pundits have displayed or how most GOP men could give a rats ass about ANY women’s issues.

    For example, poll GOP & Dem men, who are supporting Planned Parenthoods?

    Totally can call out our own team for crappy behavior to be better but let us not forget who the true ass holes are as a group and it is not progressive men.

    Bill Maher, Matt Taibbi, Tweety, etc. do not represent liberal men and especially not Larry Flynt’s scummy ass.

    Hell, Milbank and Mr. Fix basically called Hillary a Bitch as humor and they are just village defending scribes.

  155. 155

    @eemom: No, she’s in bed, asleep.

  156. 156
    Q. Q. Moar says:

    S.E Cupp is a stupid cunt. I could give a fuck what Hustler says about her. Neither of them are on my side.

  157. 157

    @Q. Q. Moar:

    S.E Cupp is a stupid cunt. I could give a fuck what Hustler says about her. Neither of them are on my side.

    The Misogyny brigade chimes in again.

  158. 158
    Anonne says:

    John, the way I see it, you’re basically protesting Hustler’s basic existence. Last time I checked, Hustler wasn’t in the business of promoting women’s dignity. If Hustler did this to Kim Kardashian, what would we be saying? It seems the problem is that Hustler is targeting her for her idiotic political speech. That would then make all politicians out of bounds for criticism by Hustler. Granted what they did was disgusting, but that is precisely the kind of thing that they do regardless of whether not a woman’s speech is political.

    I have no problems objecting to Hustler’s existence as a matter of moral principle. In this instance I would be killing 2 birds with 1 stone. People who like porn have no real standing to complain about Hustler’s treatment of S E Cupp. All they are doing is using a political target to do the same damn thing they always do: objectify women.

  159. 159
    Cacti says:

    @Q. Q. Moar:

    S.E Cupp is a stupid cunt

    Has George Tierney, Jr. of Greenville, South Carolina come to visit us?

  160. 160
    Mac G says:

    @Brachiator:

    In my book, conservative women who would take women’s rights away and who think that rape victims should be baby incubators are scorpions as well. They cannot claim the protections of any kind of feminist sisterhood while actively working to harm women.

    Totally agree.

  161. 161
    scav says:

    @Brachiator:

    In my book, conservative women who would take women’s rights away and who think that rape victims should be baby incubators are scorpions as well. They cannot claim the protections of any kind of feminist sisterhood while actively working to harm women.

    But one thing that I always found reassuring about the ACLU is that they defended the rights of people that I utterly disagreed with. It felt pointless, smug and hollow to only defend those on “my” side. I wouldn’t claim her as a sister let alone as a fellow human being necessarily (I’m not even entirely sure who she is, and that should sting her). I’m certainly not pure enough nor consistent enough to pass muster with certain people posting here but Hustler’s line of attack does just feel off and undesirable on any but the “heh heh heh stupid bitches are talking again” line of rhetoric. The mere fact that they support positions shared by liberals because it is in their economic interest to do so isn’t enough to make them anything but an at-best temporary and tactical ally on certain points. It’s all kinda tricky in this grey area.

  162. 162
    Q. Q. Moar says:

    Has George Tierney, Jr. of Greenville, South Carolina come to visit us?

    I respectfully request that you shut your dick sucker.

  163. 163

    @scav: That is the thing about the ACLU, and it demonstrates something about the political Right in this country, and their contempt for the First Amendment.

  164. 164

    @Q. Q. Moar: Go back to the WoW boards, fuckwit. Or were already banned there?

  165. 165
    Q. Q. Moar says:

    Or were already banned there? You kiss your mother with that grammar?

  166. 166

    @Q. Q. Moar: Yes, I accidentally left out a word there. That’s your retort?

  167. 167
    Q. Q. Moar says:

    @The prophet Nostradumbass:If “Go back to the wow boards” was my prompt then, yes, that was my retort. Got anything for grown ups?

  168. 168
    ruemara says:

    The problem going on here is people can’t quite separate the target from the technique or from the targeter. Just because Sippy is being humiliated doesn’t make it effective. I don’t particularly mind the image because the words convey something more than humiliation of Sippy with a dick. It talks about her preferred method of birth control, since she’s against every other. S.E is a pretty vile person, but that’s not a surprise. Hustler is a vile publication. Also not a surprise. Hard to get riled up about this, because I find Hustler so damned offensive anyway. The support links that more make your point are the other ones that are not the main point of today’s RW outrage. Larry Flynt is a free speech advocate, sure, but I believe that’s more in a libertarian tradition. i don’t see him as a Democratic party ally. But he’s mostly a business man and this is simply good business. Even negative attention raises your visibility.

  169. 169

    @Q. Q. Moar: You don’t seem to have anything, so why should I bother? I mean, really, “Shut your dick sucker” [(r) George Tierney, Jr. of Greenville, SC]? Aping one of the stupidest people on the Internet?

  170. 170
    Q. Q. Moar says:

    “Hard to get riled up about this, because I find Hustler so damned offensive anyway.”

    Exactly. Hustler is fap material for subliterate mouthbreathers; normal people don’t care what they print because it is guaranteed to be offensive, vile, misogynist, what have you.

  171. 171
    A Humble Lurker says:

    @Q. Q. Moar:
    But even if someone is a lousy person they should still be treated as…a person. And if nothing else, it allows us to rub it in the opposition’s face that while WE condemn this crap, they legislate it.

  172. 172
    Q. Q. Moar says:

    No argument there. However, as there are already many people standing up to defend Ms. Cupp against the vile leftists at Hustler, I feel unburdened by any obligation to join in. I understand that this reflects upon my failings as a good person, to which I can only say “fuck it.”

  173. 173
    LT says:

    @Clime Acts:

    Are you telling me you’re denying the emails we exchanged before throwing down with Cole in this thread?

    Just back from the bar. John – you’ve got an actual fucking lunatic on your hands here. I have no idea who this fuck is.

    EDIT: This is probably obvious. Just noted anyway.

  174. 174
    Shalimar says:

    It’s sexist, misogynistic, in horrible taste, not even remotely humorous, and wrong in every possible way. It’s also Hustler, where I would assume people expect all of those things from everything they do. Hopefully, thousands of conservative bloggers will cancel their subscriptions over this.

  175. 175
    Amir Khalid says:

    Hustler, from what little I saw of it on my trips to the US many years ago, deals in pornography and crude, sexually transgressive, deplorably juvenile “humor” — the more so, the better. No surprise there, right? It has hit a home run here, and scored the extra point as well: people outside its regular audience, respectable political commentators, are actually discussing something it published. How often does that happen?

    That picture (to judge by the blurred-out version at the link) and the no doubt equally revolting copy that ran with it deserve to be denounced by the righteous and the serious. But here’s the kicker. The more you denounce it, the more publicity it gets, and the bigger Hustler‘s reward for this deliberate transgression.

  176. 176
    Older_Wiser says:

    Having raised 2 men myself, I always found that Hustler (copies of which they would try to hide) was pretty much an adolescent fantasy dream rag about what men wanted sexually from women, whether women wanted it or not. It presents women only in a sexualized way for male consumption. If there are women who want to be in it, fine, that is their choice.

    I think S.E. Cupp is a traitor to her sex because of her political positions, but she didn’t ask to be in Hustler, didn’t ask to be presented in a sexualized way which was supposed to humiliate her. It wasn’t a choice for her, even if she engages in blow jobs in private.

    So, as a woman, I reject it, and will continue to disagree with S.E. Cupp without having to denigrate her as a female human being. I mean, wasn’t that the whole point of Hustler?

  177. 177
    Marcellus Shale, Public Dick says:

    so…larry flynt fails to win a purity test?

    in other news, you can’t win friends with salad.

    what’s next? someone will attack jennifer for not being pure enough of a progressive for making a big thing out of a random on twitter? you know, punching down, afflicting the afflicted instead of the comfortable, and something like that.

    oh, wait. its contextual.

  178. 178
    Anne Laurie says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: @Villago Delenda Est:

    This entire kerfuffle benefits two attention whores. SE Cupp and Larry Flynt.
    __
    Both are winning. Everyone else loses.

    First sensible comment in this thread. Quite possibly the last, too also.

  179. 179
    Raven says:

    @Anne Laurie: How about a garden thread?

  180. 180
    Anya says:

    This is a disgusting image and an abhorrent tactic. Also too, what @Villago Delenda Est: said, BUT, when did Hustler become one of us? How is a porn magazine progressive?

  181. 181
    Sharl says:

    @Raven: Did you see that Paul Fussell passed away? I excerpted some text from this story toward the end of comments in the last Open Thread.

  182. 182
    Raven says:

    @Sharl: Oh, thanks for letting me know. If you have not read “The Real War” it’s worth the time.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/pas.....ussell.htm

  183. 183
    bemused says:

    @Older_Wiser:

    This. I totally agree.

    @Raven:

    Yes, a garden thread. Maybe it will motivate people to go out and attack the weeds instead of each other and it would be a lot more useful and productive.

  184. 184
    the fugitive uterus says:

    so, in other words, i’m not allowed to refer to Jan Brewer as a leathery old bat with the manners of a trailer park hag?

  185. 185
    the fugitive uterus says:

    and, yeh, don’t buy it, it’s what they do; everybody with 2 brain cells to rub together knows exactly what Hustler is all about and it ain’t about feminism. it’s also about Larry Flynt using his publication to attack people he considers to be hypocrites, especially sexual hypocrites. see Jerry Falwell. no dick in his mouth but he had sex with his mother in an outhouse.

  186. 186
    Todd says:

    I’m just trying to figure out who is still buying Flynt’s rag in the age of free Internet porn.

  187. 187
    Skippy-san says:

    You mean porn models have faces? I never knew. ;-)

  188. 188
    Jamey says:

    Not only do I not want Hustler to be ordained the “conscience of the Left,” but I am sad that they didn’t come up with the idea of S.E. “Two Girls/One” Cupp.

  189. 189
    Calouste says:

    @John Cole:

    Apparently, to the brain damaged few, it is:

    1.) Ok to use vulgar sexualized imagery against ideological opponents.

    So you are going to bring down the banhammer on anyone who has used the term “Kochsucker” on this blog?

  190. 190
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    @gaz:

    No shit, it’s a fucking sleazy porno mag and someone is offended by what is in it?! I’m not saying it’s right either, I’m just pointing out the obvious.

    Sorry, no outrage to spare here. Not a drop.

  191. 191
    different-church-lady says:

    @Clime Acts:

    ETA: Hello, this is HUSTLER. It’s not as though this picture ran in The Nation.

    ..yet.

  192. 192
    different-church-lady says:

    Are you telling me you’re denying the emails we exchanged before throwing down with Cole in this thread?

    You people exchange e-mail? That’s kinda weird…

  193. 193
    different-church-lady says:

    @Q. Q. Moar:

    I could give a fuck what Hustler says about her.

    You could?

  194. 194
    Waldo says:

    Hustler DOES NOT represent the left. That’s Playboy. Sadly Bob Guccionne is no longer around to provide the sane, centrist voice of reason.

  195. 195
    Ian says:

    I’m late to the party on this one, but all I’m going to say is that while what Hustler did was disgusting, I’m not sticking up for Sippy Cupp. She can fight her own battles. Show me the conservatives that stood up for Fluke against Limbaugh. Sippy makes her living bashing liberals and she’ll be back at it tomorrow morning. We shouldn’t play the frog to her scorpion.

  196. 196
    kindness says:

    I don’t know. SE Cupp deserves derision. In all honesty though, after I read her the idea of sex with her is the farthest thing from my mind. She’s right up there with the other right wing idiots. Obnoxious and fact challenged.

  197. 197
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    @LT:

    Yup, now Hustler = The Left. Nothing like running out and condemning someone and making it like you are condemning one of your own, even though you think you’re not.

    Hustler =/= Rush, not even in someone’s wildest dreams. Yes they are both sleazy, but one is raw porn and the other is political porn. One comes out once a month and the other is on-air five times a week.

    The Right says “Look what that leftist squirrel did!” and the Left falls all over themselves condemning the squirrel, as if they are squirrels too.

    Nuts.

  198. 198
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    A few random comments:

    1. This was a vile thing to do.
    2. No, I didn’t condemn Hustler for doing to others since I didn’t know they were doing it. Now that I know; it is vile if done to S.E. Cupp, Hilary Clinton, or Kim Kardashian.
    3. It is Hustler; it is what they do.
    4. The fact that Hustler magazine may have some editorial stance with which I may agree doesn’t make it my ally.
    5. Hustler magazine has a First Amendment right to free speech and S.E. Cupp is a public figure (by her own actions and choices) so she has, and should have, little legal recourse.
    6. This was a vile thing to do.

  199. 199
    Sally Rakowski says:

    Spending an inordinate amount of one’s day obsessing about an insignificant racist in South Carolina who tweets misogynist crap that no one would see, and then on the other hand condoning Hustler Magazine for worse misogynist crap that a lot of people will surely see is nuance I’ll never understand, I guess.

    Unless it goes something like this-

    “Sandra Fluke is a good person, so, wrong, and we’re coming after you and your employer and co-workers. S.E. Cupp is a bad person, so, meh, whatever, I guess it’s ok.”

  200. 200
    kc says:

    Wow, Scott Adams is a douche …

  201. 201
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Let anyone who is outraged about this boycott his magazine and advertisers.

    They won’t make a dent because they’re not customers. Now if they are his customers??? They’ll remain his customers.

    No matter what happens, Larry wins.

    @Sally Rakowski:

    It’s cute when crazy people like you add 1 + 4 and proudly announce that the answer is corn.

    High five!

  202. 202
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Odie Hugh Manatee:

    No matter what happens, Larry wins.

    I don’t disagree. I am pretty sure he is in it for the exposure and the money.

  203. 203
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Exposure is Larry’s thing, he’s made a life of it.

  204. 204
    Sally Rakowski says:

    @Odie Hugh Manatee:

    It’s hypocritical, unprincipled, unjustified logic no matter how you try to explain it, Odie. Both are wrong, very wrong, and the only way to claim otherwise is to admit your intellectual dishonesty.

  205. 205
    mapaghimagsik says:

    I am pretty certain there are more on the left defending Cupp than there were on the right defending Fluke. There is a certain irony here, that by what Cupp seems to be supporting, if the photoshopped dick was in a liberal woman’s mouth, she’d be curiously silent. On that point, it speaks highly of those defending Cupp.

    Skin mags have their own agenda, and they don’t easily fall on right/left. Ultimately, they need to sell magazines, and the religious right only supports them by possibly buying more magazines :), so they may appear to be more “left” when this is just one of those times that left/right doesn’t work.

    I haven’t seen too many congressmen kowtow to Hustler like they kowtow to Rush. I can’t buy the equivalence here, though I don’t think many people, save apologists, are saying that. But apologists gotta apologize, or something like that.

    And feminism has an internal debate as well which draws lines around sexual freedom, so sexualized comments are not always black and white by feminist grounds. I think it goes back to intent. If you’re using the sexual imagery to intimidate someone into not stating their views, that’s even feels a lot different than when someone uses the term ‘bitch’

  206. 206
    kc says:

    @LT:

    Haha, I love this thread!

  207. 207
    MattMinus says:

    I thought nutpicking was the lowest form of blogging until I saw this post.

  208. 208
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    @Sally Rakowski:

    First, I don’t give a shit about some loudmouth who bit off more than he could chew and refused to quit after he found out what a mistake it was. Second, Sandra Fluke was a private citizen trying to speak to her government about a concern of hers and was nationally smeared for days for doing so. S.E. Cupp is a public figure who has put herself out in the public sphere to push her crazy agenda and someone took a shot at her.

    Wrong is wrong but not all wrongs are equal. I know that might be a tough concept for a crazy person to grasp so I understand your confusion.

  209. 209
    Soonergrunt says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    This entire kerfuffle benefits two attention whores. SE Cupp and Larry Flynt.
    Both are winning. Everyone else loses.

    Yup.

  210. 210
    Marc says:

    Hustler had a famous case where they wrote an ad claiming that Jerry Falwell lost his virginity in a drunken bout with his mother in an outhouse. That wasn’t about his politics either. Is there any reasonable offensiveness scale where the Falwell ad isn’t worse than this? The Cupp image and text are really sexist, but that’s not exactly surprising coming from Hustler.

    There indignant feminist defenses of right-wingers use a Victorian standards of decorum on how ladies are to be treated – while the women in question are free to say outrageous things, and attacks on men are not treated in the same way. This smells a lot like the anti-pornography, temperance movement side of feminism, which I’ve never had any sympathy for.

    My problem with both of these Hustler ads (Falwell and Cupp) is that they fail as satire. Compare them with the Bill Hicks routine, where he imagines Falwell being discovered with the flayed skins of children in his attic. Hicks tied that to an actual point, and I thought it was brilliant.

  211. 211
    Downpuppy says:

    The difference in this case is that SE Cupp is a character created by a woman trying to latch onto the wingnut welfare train.

    When she started her career, and ever since, its been perfectly obvious that every single word she writes or says is just part of the performance. Whatever the original may actually feel, think, or believe is irrelevant – the character is driven only to succeed within the terms of her career. Once the money slows, she’ll move on to something else.

    So I can’t get behind her. It’s like defending wrestlers against Evil Andy Kaufman. This is exactly the shit she created the character for.

  212. 212
    Clime Acts says:

    @LT:

    John – you’ve got an actual fucking lunatic on your hands here. I have no idea who this fuck is.

    Thanks a lot, Judas.

  213. 213
    Ron says:

    I think expecting real feminism out of Hustler is pretty ridiculous. On the other hand, I agree with the general premise that it’s just as unacceptable for the left to use sexist language, etc. as it is for the right. That being said, people are imperfect and say things they shouldn’t at times. Unless someone is repeatedly doing it, the test should be what happens afterwards. In Ed Schultz’s case, he gave what sounded like a sincere apology (with none of the “if anyone was offended” nonsense). That doesn’t make what he said right, but it’s a far cry from the doubling down that people on the right sometimes do when confronted with a situation like that.

  214. 214
    Clime Acts says:

    @Sally Rakowski:

    and then on the other hand condoning Hustler Magazine for worse misogynist crap that a lot of people will surely see is nuance I’ll never understand, I guess.

    You missed a key point. No one here has specifically “condoned” anything in Hustler, except in your head.

    Since when is oral sex a bad thing, anyway?

  215. 215
    Clime Acts says:

    @Marc:

    My problem with both of these Hustler ads (Falwell and Cupp) is that they fail as satire.

    One of many points made in this thread is that no one of sound mind is looking to Hustler magazine for cogent satire in the first place, so the issue is moot.

    Unless you’re playing the right wing victim game. Or are a ratfucker.

  216. 216
    chopper says:

    @VincentN:

    i know, right? there are days where we’ll see 12 posts on this blog, 3 are about pets, 2 are about video games and 1 is about getting drunk and smoking a brisket.

    this isn’t a blog by and for policy wonks. if you think the post is about an inane subject, skip the fucking thing. i do it all the time.

  217. 217
    chopper says:

    so, have we finally ironed out the rules regarding what we’re allowed to get offended by and what we’re allowed to comment on without being the next hitler?

  218. 218
    The Tragically Flip says:

    Are people really trying to claim that Cole’s blog should abstain from giving attention to Hustler? This isn’t some c-list blog we’re talking about, this event is already news whether Cole comments or not.

    If feminists and male liberals (who can also be feminists, but I’m speaking of ones who don’t generally self-identify as such) didn’t comment to condemn it, we’d get endless rounds of “oh feminists were curiously silent when Saint Cupp was martyred by Larry Flint back in 2012” (conservative bloggers never shut up about the supposed “silence” of feminists on the subject of treatment of women in Islamic societies, using this claim to support their “liberals are rooting for the sharia takeover of America” theory).

  219. 219
    pk says:

    “Sandra Fluke is a good person, so, wrong, and we’re coming after you and your employer and co-workers. S.E. Cupp is a bad person, so, meh, whatever, I guess it’s ok.”

    Actually it does work like that in the real world. That’s why if Dick Cheney was on fire I would pour on the gasoline but do my best to save a burning dog. I hate Hustler and if I were the dictator of the world I would ban it, but as long as it is around I don’t care what it says about the anti feminist Cupp. The woman is an idiot and is out for attention. I am a woman and don’t feel obliged to come to the rescue of every woman and condemn it when she is subjected to misogynistic hatred. People like Cupp want to create a world where woman would loose all their rights and actually support misogynist men. Everyone else can be saintly and high minded, but I say screw her and Hustler both. And by the way here is the ever professional Ms Cupp with her legs on the table. Boy is this woman crying out for attention!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5jF_qMcRqw

  220. 220

    Larry Flynt likes to ratfuck the jowl-wagging moral scolds and crusaders of any political persuasion, usually by hilighting their hypocrisy. He’s a worm, but I can’t really condemn what he does there.

  221. 221
    Soonergrunt says:

    @chopper: Until those rules change in 3…2…1…

  222. 222
    different-church-lady says:

    mapaghimagsik:

    On that point, it speaks highly of those defending Cupp.

    There’s a difference between defending Cupp and condemning Hustler and Flint — please don’t blur it.

  223. 223
    eemom says:

    The thing about John Cole is, he doesn’t think things through.

    This is exacerbated by the ex-republitard guilt underlying his desperation to chime in with dumb ass memes like this one, as I mentioned last night.

    I might also add that he is perhaps not the brightest light on the Christmas tree. (That is unkind, but he has said much worse things about me.)

    Anyway, those are the operative factors here, imo.

  224. 224
    slag says:

    Personally, I appreciate when people point out and condemn misogyny where ever it comes from. Too much of that shit gets ignored or waved away with a “boys will be boys”. I find that attitude counterproductive and condescending. Guess what boys and girls, we can all do better! It doesn’t hurt to have that fact pointed out to us every once in a while.

  225. 225
    Clime Acts says:

    Seriously?

    THIS is the faux-sexy librarian moron this is all about?

    OF COURSE Cole would pretend to come to her defense: She’s Mann Coulter and Sarah Palin combined.

    Two! Two! Two bimbos in one!

  226. 226
    jamurph says:

    Enjoy losing much?

    Also, if you brain can’t handle paradox, then you aren’t a progressive…

    Ok. Yes sexism is bad. Very bad. But to put this in perspective… if women’s rights were a village then the right wing and their apologists like Cupp are the barbarian horde slaughtering every single inhabitant and burning down every single flammable material they can find. And there you are yelling at the defenders “don’t objectify anyone! That’s way worse than being slaughtered!” So FFS, who is really the bad guy here? The barbarians who want your rights crushed to the point of meaninglessness? Or the guy who maybe crossed the line in your defense? What is this? Bizarro world?

    It will take decades to undo these anti-woman, anti-gay, anti-brown skin, anti-human laws these monsters have enacted in relative minutes. FFS we are fighting for our very existence here. And on top of the fact that half the people representing us only do what we want or defend us some of the time… we also have to deal with this?

    Nerdy analogy: I don’t care if force lightening is a dark side power or not. If it works, its time use it. If we don’t start winning a few battles soon then there will be nothing left to save. You think you’ve seen the worst the right has to throw at you? You ain’t seen nothing yet. They ALWAYS manage to outdo themselves.

    Look at the past 30 years alone. How well did playing nice and clean actually work for us? How well does playing dirty work for them? This issue is truly absurd.

  227. 227

    Having been labeled at one point, ‘as this blogs biggest Obama fellator’ by the blog owner, I am going to file this nightmare of a thread under bizarro spoof, and just walk on by.

  228. 228
    amused says:

    Thank you, John, for the attempt, but I had no doubt that this was how this thread would go. It’s pretty ironic that after a week of condemning some guy on the twatter for sexualizing a woman because he disagrees with her stance, we have the same people saying it’s okay because this other woman is “bad.” It buys into the whole good girl/bad girl dichotomy: Good girls (and the definition depends on who’s talking) deserve to be defended, and bad girls (ditto) deserve what they get, and because everyone has their own definition of a bad girl, any girl is fair game at any given time. It’s not a left/right issue, it’s a misogyny/feminist issue. And for those whining that by bringing up the issue at all, John is perpetuating Sippy’s victimology – it’s the opposite. By condemning the tactic, John is not defending Sippy’s views, he’s saying that it’s never right to use sexualization of women as a silencing tactic. Predictably, the folks who enjoy using this tactic against their opponents don’t want to abandon their privilege and are vehemently rationalizing that their use of it is right while the other side’s use of it is wrong. Every feminist ally gets this; if you don’t, you’re not a feminist ally. Don’t feel bad, though – misogyny has been institutionalized for centuries, and judging by how easy the anti-woman forces have been whittling away at our rights the moment we get them, your privilege is still safe.

  229. 229
    Truthwhip says:

    I’m a staunch feminist, but I’m actually fine with this. Why? Well, because what Flynt did actually just underscores exactly the kind of sex that S.E. Cupp is always advocating for ALL American women of childbearing age who want to avoid pregancy. Since Cupp doesn’t approve of any kind of birth control and wants to defund Planned Parenthood, showing her demonstrating oral sex seems very appropriate. Furthermore, she deserves public humiliation for being the kind of authoritarian religious conservative whose goal is to deny every women autonomy over their own body.

  230. 230
    the fugitive uterus says:

    so, let me get this straight. right-wing women want to strip away the rights of women and basically turn them into helpless incubators while they, the winger women, get to f*ck and f*ck and somehow not end up having 10 kids. funny that. they did NOT come to the defense of Sandra Fluke and they want to undermine and destroy all the great strides accomplished by the women’s movement.

    but we are supposed to come trotting to their defense when somebody makes a mysoginistic comment or some photoshopped pic, in Hustler for godsake.

    i think Hustler is revolting and the image is disgusting, but if it weren’t for the progressive women’s movement, these women would NOT be where they are today.

    they let Limbaugh call Sandra Fluke a whore and a slut and smear here with hundreds of lies for 3 straight days and said nothing.

    as someone else said, it ain’t The Nation, for crying out loud.

    these women spit upon the legacy of progressive women that has made it possible for them to vote against their best interests. they do it all day, every day. they are ungrateful and mysoginistic.

    oh, and, FREE SPEECH! heh

  231. 231
    Truthwhip says:

    @jamurph: Well said! I agree completely.

  232. 232
    amused says:

    @the fugitive uterus: So, you’re willing to forgo advances for women because some bad women might benefit? I guess we should also eliminate medicare because some teabaggers might use it, huh?

  233. 233
    pk says:

    @amused:
    I don’t think anyone here is condoning misogyny. The question is why are we supposed to come to the defense of a misogynist (Cupp) against another misogynist (Hustler). I think Sandra Fluke did the right thing, by condemning Hustler because Cupp, like all right wingers shrieked like a whiny baby “will no one come to my defense” and Fluke was almost obliged to say something (what else could Fluke say by the way). This is not a “misogynist/feminist issue. It is about “do some people deserve to be defended when they are on the receiving end of the crap they themselves have been hurling. The answer for most humans with human feelings is no. I have no sympathy for right wingers male or female specially one who writes “I don’t know where women went wrong. Republican economic policies of self-reliance should be right up their alley. Instead, it appears as if they really just want to be taken care of”.

    http://articles.nydailynews.co.....e-voters/2

  234. 234
    LanceThruster says:

    I have often found Hustler pieces funny/not funny & sexy/not sexy and assumed that those pieces I did/didn’t, other people didn’t/did.

    That’s how I view the S.E. Cupp photoshop. I largely didn’t like her views as expressed on Bill Maher’s show, but also thought she was attractive and if given the opportunity to view her or engage with her in the manner depicted, would have to admit that I’d be into it.

    So many times sexual imagery is used to diminish opponents regardless of gender in truly ugly (though often colorfully descriptive ways). I think the US population on the whole was butt-raped without lube by the GOP, while the Dems stood by and pretended to be shocked while it happened.

    I remember any attempted interaction with PUMAs that didn’t bow to the superiority of Ms. Clinton as presidential nominee brought on a flurry of limp and small dick insults. I would get banned soon after for pointing out that it would be considered offensive, whether true or not, to go into graphic and demeaning details about the size or dryness/wetness of a woman’s cooch.

    I didn’t lose any sleep over the fact that porn producers created a “Nailin’ Palin” video, and don’t think that the sexualization of S.E. Cupp in this manner, while easily identified as misogynistic, is really any worse than the attempts to control women’s sexuality against their will that Cupp and others regularly espouse.

  235. 235
    the fugitive uterus says:

    @amused: um, those advances have already been made and have enormously benefited people like, Jan Brewer for instance. i don’t have to give up anything unless the right wing and their female minions succeed in trying to take those things away from me, and from you.

    also, b*tch that i am, i would not allow a teabagger to die from lack of health care if i could help it, but that’s just how most of us roll.

    conversely, they don’t care if i die. and since i am childless, it’s a 2 for 1 deal!

  236. 236
    the fugitive uterus says:

    anyway, i don’t have to run to this woman’s defense. there are apparently more principled and fair-minded, hairy-armpitted, Birkenstock wearing gals with more integrity in their pinky toe than i have in my entire body, out there on the internets to do that.

  237. 237
    burnspbesq says:

    @LT:

    And you an point ot where you’ve condemned hustler before for doing this exact thing?

    Had Hustler done “this exact thing” before, and had it come to my attention, yes, I would have condemned it. I don’t think the first condition is satisfied, and I’m sure the second condition isn’t.

    Any other questions?

  238. 238
    amused says:

    @pk: So, Fluke did the right thing? Wouldn’t that mean that all these people saying Sippy deserved it are doing the wrong thing? And it doesn’t count because Fluke was “almost obliged to say something?” To remain a consistent defender of all women, of course she was “obliged” to defend someone against misogynist attacks, even someone who didn’t return the favor when the opportunity presented itself. If you feel the need to reserve the right to condone misogyny (and that’s exactly what this thread is about, no matter how much you believe it isn’t) when it’s directed toward people you don’t like, you’re not a feminist ally, is all I’m saying. If you think you are a feminist ally, and think Sippy deserves what she gets despite the fact that she’s a woman, (just the wrong type of woman, apparently) you’re a hypocrite, pure and simple.

  239. 239
    burnspbesq says:

    @the fugitive uterus:

    so, in other words, i’m not allowed to refer to Jan Brewer as a leathery old bat with the manners of a trailer park hag?

    You can say it, but if you do the Association of Trailer Park Hags may sue you for libel.

  240. 240
    amused says:

    @the fugitive uterus: Wow. Way to perpetuate the stereotype of the ugly feminist. And in case you haven’t noticed, the war on women’s rights is steadily taking away those advances you now enjoy, but hey, we’ll just let those ugly feminists do the right thing, while you catcall from your privileged perch.

    I know, I know, “why so serious?” Bashing women is great fun unless you’re the one being bashed.

  241. 241
    RedKitten says:

    but we are supposed to come trotting to their defense when somebody makes a mysoginistic comment or some photoshopped pic, in Hustler for godsake.

    Yes. Yes we are. It’s called being a decent human being.

    If we don’t want that done to women with whom we agree, then we HAVE to speak up when it’s done to women with whom we do not agree. Otherwise, we’re nothing but a bunch of hypocrites.

    There are certain women, mostly public figures, who I loathe with the heat of a thousand suns. If they were to be completely eviscerated in the media, I would sit here and do the cabbage patch in my office chair.

    But when a woman…ANY woman, no matter how loathsome…is depicted in such a disgusting, sexist, debased manner, it hurts each and every one of us. It reinforces the idea that it’s okay to treat women you dislike as nothing but a series of orifices.

    I don’t care if it’s Hustler. If we would be angry at Hustler for doing that to Hilary Clinton or Sandra Fluke, then we must be angry at Hustler for doing this to S.E. Cupp. Because shit like this, and the shitheads here who are justifying it, only validate the feelings of those people who think it’s perfectly acceptable to treat women this way, if they’re not the “right” kind of woman.

  242. 242
    different-church-lady says:

    Again, people:

    – defending Cupp

    – condemning Hustler

    The difference between the two: how does it fucking work?

  243. 243
    Brachiator says:

    @RedKitten:

    If we don’t want that done to women with whom we agree, then we HAVE to speak up when it’s done to women with whom we do not agree. Otherwise, we’re nothing but a bunch of hypocrites.

    No,we’re not. Any conservative pundit, male or female, who did not condemn Limbaugh when he went after Fluke is fair game, especially if they otherwise attack or seek to limit the rights of women and other people.

    This is neither a game nor a fair fight.

    It’s interesting to note how one conservative commentator talks about the vile attack against Cupp, but blandly notes Rush’s “comments” about Fluke.

    Where is the National Organization of Women? Recently, they sponsored a boycott of Rush Limbaugh’s radio program because of his comments about Sandra Fluke. Yet, the virtual rape of a woman is somehow not their concern? The About section of NOW’s website states that, among other things, NOW focuses on representation of women in the media. Surely then, this despicable media attack of S. E. Cupp is in the realm of NOW’s concern. Or could it be that, because Ms. Cupp is a conservative, NOW somehow does not deem her worthy of defense?

    They are clearly trying to have it both ways, ducking any condemnation of Limbaugh, but wailing in outrage about Flynt.

    Where Flynt went wrong was in not nailing down the satire. Limbaugh brought out the diehard women haters. Hustler should have had a cartoon of George Tierney Jr. of Greenville, South Carolina doing something wrong to a conservative and saying something like “Aren’t you glad I’m on your side?”

  244. 244
    cpinva says:

    two things:

    1. ivy league to s.e. cupp: we want our diploma back!

    2. s.e. cupp’s “philosophy” is about as complex as my cat’s feelings about food.

    she’s worked hard to be a public person, and be paid well for the job. rude satire is part of the game. if you’re too sensitive to play, go back home to rich mommy and daddy.

    hustler’s take is rude, but then so is ms. cupp’s. reap, meet sow.

  245. 245
    Felinious Wench says:

    @RedKitten:

    Yes. Yes we are. It’s called being a decent human being.

    Thank you.

    I seem to recall a very strong reaction to a photo of Obama dressed in leather bondage gear, erect penis very visible, a while ago. It was meant to be demeaning and used sexuality to do it, and I don’t recall many of us saying “well, it’s X, what do you expect?” It was vile. And now we’ve got Hustler using sexuality to demean someone on the “other side” and some people are not so quick to condemn.

    It’s not OK under any conditions or set of circumstances.

  246. 246
    pk says:

    @amused:

    So, Fluke did the right thing? Wouldn’t that mean that all these people saying Sippy deserved it are doing the wrong thing?

    No it does not mean that all. I don’t see anyone here saying Cupp deserved it. As I said I would ban Hustler if I had the power. Hustler harms women all the time and it does not cause more or less damage when it goes after particular women. But when one misogynist piece of crap goes after another misogynist piece of crap, I would not rush to defend either. Misogyny is to be condemned, but right wing misogynists do not deserve to be defended.

  247. 247
    Darkrose says:

    @RedKitten:

    I don’t care if it’s Hustler. If we would be angry at Hustler for doing that to Hilary Clinton or Sandra Fluke, then we must be angry at Hustler for doing this to S.E. Cupp.

    Agreed. I do think we should make sure to frame the condemnation, though:

    “The Hustler image was appalling and far outside the realm of acceptable discource, and any thinking person would condemn that, whether it comes from a publication with a long history of misogyny, or from the standard-bearer of the Republican party.”

    In other words, shoot down the “both sides do it” argument by making it clear that Hustler is NOT “our side”.

  248. 248
    Darkrose says:

    @RedKitten:

    I don’t care if it’s Hustler. If we would be angry at Hustler for doing that to Hilary Clinton or Sandra Fluke, then we must be angry at Hustler for doing this to S.E. Cupp.

    Agreed. I do think we should make sure to frame the condemnation, though:

    “The Hustler image was appalling and far outside the realm of acceptable discource, and any thinking person would condemn that, whether it comes from a publication with a long history of misogyny, or from the standard-bearer of the Republican party.”

    In other words, shoot down the “both sides do it” argument by making it clear that Hustler is NOT “our side”.

  249. 249
    Darkrose says:

    @pk:

    Misogyny is to be condemned, but right wing misogynists do not deserve to be defended.

    So, being a right-wing woman means she was asking for it?

    To me, the whole point here is that we’re not like them, and that we’ll defend even people who attack us when they’re the target of *ist attacks themselves.

  250. 250
    pk says:

    So, being a right-wing woman means she was asking for it?

    No, Just because I won’t defend her does not mean I believe that she was asking for it. Yes, I pick and chose who I defend. I condemn Hustler, I would condemn anyone who uses these tactics to attack women. But I see both Hustler and Cupp as misogynists and would not defend her. She has no respect for women, makes offensive anti women statements, and so I would leave her to deal with the Hustler insult all by herself. After all, that is what an independent woman is supposed to do (according to her). Helping each other out is too communist.

  251. 251
    Kittehs to the rescue says:

    After reading that “Also, too” link I’m left wondering: is “b*tch” now verboten to use both on women and men, because it always is demeaning to women? (Same for “c*nt”, I guess.)

  252. 252
    amused says:

    @pk: So, you would condemn anyone using these tactics against women, but even though Sippy’s a woman, it’s okay that she’s attacked because she’s not a “good” woman.

    You do realize that you are no better than Sippy, don’t you? You’re using her criteria for your morality. Good to know.

  253. 253
    pk says:

    You do realize that you are no better than Sippy, don’t you? You’re using her criteria for your morality. Good to know.

    No. The only thing I realize is that you will believe what you choose to believe and further argument is pointless.

  254. 254
    different-church-lady says:

    @amused: I don’t think you’re operating the reading comprehension thingy correctly.

  255. 255
    Felinious Wench says:

    @Kittehs to the rescue:

    After reading that “Also, too” link I’m left wondering: is “b*tch” now verboten to use both on women and men, because it always is demeaning to women? (Same for “c*nt”, I guess.)

    I wear bitch as a badge of honor, and don’t mind being called one, and the women I know would agree. If a man called us a bitch, or another woman, we’d laugh and probably say “yes, you’re right.” It’s not as socially unacceptable or demeaning as it used to be.

    Calling a man a little bitch, not OK according to current social norms.

    Cunt, not OK. That one is still icky.

  256. 256
    Jesus H. Tapdancing Christ says:

    Newsflash: Sleazy porn mag does something sleazy and pornographic.

    All this time I thought Larry Flynt was a Sensible Centrist. To the fainting couch I go!

  257. 257
    LanceThruster says:

    @Felinious Wench: Though it is my understanding that usage of cunt has different connotations depending on if it is the American term or the British one.

    Great link on UK slang here though that one is not included – http://www.effingpot.com/slang.shtml

  258. 258
    Liquid says:

    Personally, I think she’s never looked better.

    From the glut of photos of her, all taken from any number of FOX programs, her only value to them (aside from towing the line) appears to be another horse in their stable (or harem, let’s be inclusive) of “news beauties” or what-have-you.

    Next scandal, please.

  259. 259
    gaz says:

    @LanceThruster: yeah – Cunt is totally different in the UK than it is in the US. I’m sure the etymology is the same, but outside the Vagina monologues or something you won’t hear anybody in the US self-identify as a Cunt.

  260. 260
    gaz says:

    @Darkrose:

    So, being a right-wing woman means she was asking for it?

    Perfect pitch. What an assbag

  261. 261
    gaz says:

    @pk: Fluke didn’t do it out of obligation, or reputation or whatever. It wasn’t some sort of political move. She came to Cupp’s defense because it WAS THE RIGHT THING to do.

    Your bullshit is very tiresome. You must be quite the ladies man.

    FFS

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