Glad To See I Didn’t Miss Anything Big Today

Glennzilla:

President Obama today became the first American president to endorse same-sex marriage, telling ABC News‘s Robin Roberts: “it is important for me to go ahead and affirm that I think same-sex couples should be able to get married.” His record on LGBT equality has not been perfect, but it is one area where he has been quite impressive. He engineered the repeal of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell. His Justice Department is refusing to defend the constitutionality of DOMA in court, a very unusual step. He has ushered in a series of important federal spousal benefits for gay employees of the federal government. And now, for the first time, the office of the American President is officially supporting a policy that a mere decade ago was deemed truly radical: same-sex marriage. Those are real achievements. And, as virtually all polls reflect – underscored by last night’s landslide defeat for marriage equality in North Carolina — they carry genuine political risk. He deserves credit for his actions in this civil rights realm.

***

It may very well be true that Obama took this step not out of any genuine conviction, but because he perceives that high levels of enthusiasm among the Democratic base generally and gay donors specifically are necessary for his re-election, or because Biden’s comments forced his hand, or any number of other tactical reasons. I don’t know what his secret motives are, but even if they could be discerned, I think it’s irrelevant.

When it comes to assessing a politician, what matters, at least to me, are actions, not motives. If they do the wrong thing, they should be criticized regardless of motive; conversely, if they do the right thing, they should be credited. I’ve had zero tolerance over the last three years for people who pop up to justify all the horrible things Obama has done by claiming that he is forced to do them out of political necessity or in cowardly deference to public opinion; that’s because horrible acts don’t become less horrible because they’re prompted by some rational, self-interested political motive rather than conviction. That’s equally true of positive acts: they don’t become less commendable because they were the by-product of political pressure or self-preservation; when a politician takes the right course of action, as Obama did today, credit is merited, regardless of motive.

I was actually thinking about this on the way home, when I heard on NPR that Obama had made these remarks. My first thought was genuine surprise, as I thought he would never make an announcement like this until after the election. It’s just a risky position, and he rarely takes that kind of risk.

My next thought was that I bet people are going to be heaping praise on him, but all he has really done is express an opinion. What he should be really praised for are all the many things he and his administration have done, some of which Glenn mentioned, but that was really just the tip of the iceberg- check this exhaustive list of advances for gay rights. I’d cut and paste it, but it would scroll 4-5 pages.

That isn’t an “impressive” record. It’s AMAZING. That’s what flummoxes me about many activists. Those are real accomplishments, yet we still had folks (Dan Choi, Aravosis, I’m looking at you) flaming the President. Contrary to what Glenn says, the President stating he supports same-sex marriage isn’t an action, it’s a statement. What is listed here are real actions. Yet most of those accomplishments received little fanfare or were even downplayed by the very same activists who today are doing cartwheels over “just words.” It’s almost as if for some activists, affirmation is more important than accomplishments.

Don’t get me wrong, I think what happened today is a big deal, and I recognize how important it is and I am very glad it has happened. And I understand that affirmation in this context, by the most powerful politician in the country, can be a game-changer But even if Obama had maintained his earlier position on same-sex marriage, he still has done more to advance gay rights than any other President, by a ridiculously wide margin. Faced with a congress more hostile than what Bill Clinton ever faced, he is UNDOING much of the damage inflicted on the gay community by none other than Bill Clinton.

Flame away.

210 replies
  1. 1
    Steve says:

    Yup!

  2. 2
    khead says:

    No dude. Don’t gripe.

    Obama doing the right thing is fan-fucking-tastic.

  3. 3
    Joseph Nobles says:

    Credit to where credit is do: I’m happy that Glenn said this. In fact, later on he bats down some of the stuff I’m already seeing about how the pony could be better. Maybe the pony could be better, but this pony will ride.

  4. 4
    shortstop says:

    Nice.

  5. 5
    JPL says:

    I never had to face the hatred that being of color or gay brings but many friends have and I wept at the President’s statement. It truly takes a man of integrity and grit but why are we surprised? Isn’t he the same guy who saved GM and killed Osama.

  6. 6
    Baud says:

    Words are important.

    Deeds are important.

    I don’t know why we have to have a “less filling/tastes great” debate about which is more important.

  7. 7
    shortstop says:

    @Baud: I don’t think we are having that debate. Both are important–but words without deeds ain’t worth spit in measurable change. Deeds without words are.

  8. 8
    Patricia Kayden says:

    Nothing that President Obama does is going to be good enough for some people. Dan Savage appears to be disappointed with the President’s announcemnet today although I don’t understand what he thinks President Obama can do about states enacting anti-marriage equality laws.

    President Obama is neither a king nor a dictator. He came out and expressed his opinion and hopefully it will move some Black Christian fundamentalists in the right direction and put opponents of SSM on the defensive.

  9. 9
    Trurl says:

    You’ve got stones, Cole, sneering at Dan Choi, without whose courage in handcuffing himself to the White House, your dear Leader would still be ducking DADT repeal like the spineless, calculating piece of shit he was then and still is now.

  10. 10
    The Sheriff's A Ni- says:

    I’ve had my differences with Greenwald to be sure, but I’m with Joseph: Let that pony ride!

  11. 11
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    Here’s the thing about “political risk” on this issue:

    I’m sure that the Obama 2012 team did a lot of work with focus groups and polls to see how this might affect the EC vote totals, and decided that it was a wash at worst.

    The fundigelical scum hate Obama anyways, for two reasons; first, he’s near, and second, his middle name is “Hussein”. The fact that he’s been an open and committed Christian is irrelevant…he’s not their kind of “Christian”, the OT based nutjobs who worship a vengeful asshole deity. They are not followers of Jesus, they are rabid followers of Mammon.

    Coming out supporting gay marriage won’t effect that group’s vote at all. They still don’t trust the Rmoneytron (see the entire gay staffer flap) and they’re still likely to maintain pressure on the Rmoneytron to keep shoring up the pathetic bigoted hateful base.

    So, from a purely cynical electoral standpoint, this isn’t going to hurt, and will probably help, the re-election bid.

  12. 12
    VincentN says:

    I’m glad you posted that link, Cole. It’ll be helpful. I’m in another forum watching people say that while they’re glad that Obama has said this they’re going to wait for him to follow it up with some actions. This is what I wrote:

    “I’m seeing a lot of people saying that they’re thrilled about Obama’s words but are waiting to see if he follows them with action. You mean actions like these?

    1. The President signed the repeal of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell,” allowing gay men and women to serve openly in our armed forces.
    2. The Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act allows the Department of Justice to prosecute crimes motivated by a person’s gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, or disability. The Act was the first federal civil rights legislation to include “sexual orientation” and “gender identity.”
    3. For the first time, hospital visitation rights and decision-making rights are available to same sex couples at Medicaid or Medicare assisted hospitals.
    4. Obama also told the Justice Department to stop defending DOMA in federal court.

    Honestly, it’s like unless Obama personally orders the National Guard out to force churches to gay-marry people then he doesn’t really care about gay rights.”

  13. 13

    It may very well be true that Obama took this step not out of any genuine conviction,

    Same old Greenwald. Telling us that motives don’t matter so much, then going on to speculate on Obama’s. You know, there are any number of liberals out there to quote on this, that are also gay, but you choose this piece of shit that manages to weasel word in his usual self admiration of the worlds national truth teller, and kick Obama supporters to the curb, with his usual sctick of badass liberal hero. This should be a day of celebration for all liberals, but GG manages to turn into an ode to his cause, of ultimately, when all things are weighed in his pea brane, this is but a blimp on the road to OBAMA WORSE THAN BUSH.

    To hell with Glenn Greenwald, don’t need his bullshit, but it is your blog, and I can say what I think about stuff. And just did.

  14. 14
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Trurl:

    Forgive me, but Choi’s become a bit of pure theater.

    What he’s been doing doesn’t have much effect either way, really, in the larger scheme of things.

    Oh, it may make people like you feel good, but overall, it’s a sideshow.

  15. 15
    Chyron HR says:

    @Trurl:

    DADT doesn’t count because I said so also I can tell from the tone of his voice and having heard a few voices in my time

    It’s pretty clear at this point that the only thing you hate more than Obama not doing what you want is Obama doing what you want.

  16. 16
    dmsilev says:

    @Trurl: In case nobody’s told you yet, you’ve become a self-parody.

    Congratulations, I think.

  17. 17
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    I

    don’t know what his secret motives are, but even if they could be discerned, I think it’s irrelevant.

    Yet I am of course sadly obliged to speculate that they are the worst possible motives.

  18. 18
    Cheap Jim says:

    Don’t forget a big old slice of blame for Sam Nunn.

  19. 19
    Raven says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: He’s a pain in the ass and a fucking officer!

  20. 20
    lamh35 says:

    Faced with a congress more hostile than what Bill Clinton ever faced, he is UNDOING much of the damage inflicted on the gay community by none other than Bill Clinton.

    OMG!!!! THANK YOU. I’ve been saying this forever. The standard that Obama has been set to is freakin’ Mount Kilamanjaro compared the the ant hill that Clinton was held to.

  21. 21
    the Conster says:

    @Trurl:

    What a sad pathetic hateful little nutjob you are.

  22. 22
    Thymezone says:

    Great post, John. Greenwald is a dick. But even a dickish squirrel sometimes gets a nut.

    Obama’s conversion on this, wherever it comes from, is a winning move. Romney has no recourse but to become GW Bush on this issue. Even if he can do that with a straight face, nobody is going to believe him, not even the conservatives.

  23. 23

    Thank you. I’m so fucking tired of the assholes around here who can’t concede for one moment that President Obama has ever done anything right. I had a front row seat during the AIDS epidemic, when the American President couldn’t be bothered to pretend that he gave a shit that literally thousands of Americans were dying, because they were gay. I watched every human being I loved curl up to die like stray cats in some alley, while the American President (and most of the American people)looked the other way. To everybody out there who can’t pass up the opportunity to shit all over anything remotely good, I have a message for you from a few hundred dead gay activists who spent the last breaths in their bodies fighting for the right to be treated like human beings in this country: Go fuck yourself. This matters, and those of us who get it are happy, and if you can’t be happy for our sake, that says more about you than it does this President or this moment.

  24. 24
    Raven says:

    @Trurl: What courage, were they going to shoot him?

  25. 25
    Baud says:

    @shortstop:

    “words without deeds ain’t worth spit in measurable change”

    I guess I disagree because I think words can be the foundation for future deeds, even if by others.

    No worries. We have both in this case.

  26. 26
    The Sheriff's A Ni- says:

    @Trurl: not sure if serious

  27. 27

    It’s almost as if for some activists, affirmation is more important than accomplishments.

    It’s almost as if for some activists, affirmation is more important than accomplishments.

    FTFY.

  28. 28
    Skerry says:

    I don’t understand the legal/logistical ramifications of allowing states to have different laws regarding SSM. What happens when a legally married couple in one state moves to a state with an amendment forbidding SSM? Is their marriage essentially “annulled”? What happens to rights like health care coverage, etc?

    Can someone help me with this?

  29. 29
    AnotherBruce says:

    @General Stuck: Telling us that motives don’t matter so much, then going on to speculate on Obama’s.

    That’s not what he did, he did the opposite. read the whole thing. The key phrase is when, talking about Obama’s motives: “I think it’s irrelevant.” He was making a larger point than one about Obama’s motives.

  30. 30
    JPL says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: I felt bad that he was of such weak character, he allowed himself to be used. Same thing with Cindy Sheehan. There are those that don’t care about the suffering, they care about the using. (I’m not pointing fingers at some sites…just saying)

  31. 31
    Thymezone says:

    @Trurl:

    Wow, what a crapbag post. Even by BJ standards you have managed to get ten pounds of horseshit into a three pound bag.

  32. 32
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Raven:

    I’m guilty of the later, and I’ve also been accused of the former.

    So take it as you will.

    Of course, Choi never made it to O-3, so he didn’t have a chance to do much real damage, just get lost in a HMMWV on occasion.

  33. 33
    Pyro Joe says:

    @Trurl: I’ve got to admit, that was one of the funniest things I’ve read all day. Are you doing this intentionally?

  34. 34
  35. 35
    SteveinSC says:

    I was happily surprised at Obama’s move as well. In view of the redneck intellectual tractor-pull in the Tar Heel State, it was pretty ballsy. I’d be really too fucking happy if he would also make the decision to shit-can that mewling worm Axel-snot and have John Yoo arrested.

  36. 36

    @The Very Reverend Crimson Fire of compassion:

    My sympathy for your losses. I assume you walk in the company of ghosts. Many would say they aren’t real. The love, however, was real, is real, and will remain real.

    How are you doing now?

  37. 37
    JPL says:

    @jeffreyw: A comment without an appetizer is nothing.. how disappointing.

  38. 38
    dmsilev says:

    @Skerry: My understanding is that right now, if a married same-sex couple from let’s say Iowa moves to Kansas, Kansas won’t recognize that marriage and all the legal implications thereof.

  39. 39
    MikeJ says:

    @Thymezone: It’s a fake. I can tell by the pixels.

  40. 40
    Phoenix_rising says:

    Credit where it’s due, this does not happen today without the GetEqual rabble rousers chaining themsleves to stuff, including the fence at the WH.

    I say that as the activist who cleans up well, can pass for a straight woman*, and gets to sit with the befuddled Dems who can’t understand why those other gay people aren’t reasonable like I am.

    I just try to look serious and say, “Yes, I know it’s unfair, and I wish they would appreciate your substantive work too, but every group has its extremists. Glad to help you figure out how to spin this from a more reasonable perspective…”(that’s only 60% of what we want and would have been unthinkable 15 years ago).

    Fucking Overton Windows, how do they open?

    *ETA: this distinguishes me from some if my beloved colleagues, who can pass for straight as long as you think they’re dudes in the wrong restroom. Not that I’m somehow superior or different inside or have better political skills, just that life is unfair. The world is unfair. And this country is going to be exactly as fair as we can force it to become, as cleverly as we have to.

  41. 41
    shortstop says:

    @Skerry: Yes, the SCOTUS can help you with that.

    At this point we’re just waiting to see if they do.

  42. 42
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Thymezone:

    Even if he can do that with a straight face, nobody is going to believe him, not even the conservatives.

    This, right here, is absolutely key.

    His own base does not trust him, knows that he has a terminal authenticity problem. That’s why his presumptiveness took so long to establish, it’s why even in February the fundigelicals were looking for someone, anyone, to be a credible Not-Mitt.

    UNLIMITED CORPORATE CASH can’t buy trust. It can only rent acquiescence, and only for a very short time.

  43. 43
    Heliopause says:

    That’s what flummoxes me about many activists.

    Yes, yes, yes, we already knew you couldn’t possibly comment on this without invoking this tired trope. Moving along…

    he is UNDOING much of the damage inflicted on the gay community by none other than Bill Clinton.

    This as well is quite silly. Obama is today taking the leftmost practical position on LGBT issues. Clinton in his day took the leftmost practical position on LGBT issues. Obviously you can’t judge politicians on some absolute standard, you have to consider historical and cultural context.

  44. 44
    El Tiburon says:

    @General Stuck:
    Geez, you really are the ultimate douchebag.

  45. 45
    David Koch says:

    Sent Mitt Romney a generous donation.

    Thank him for opposing gay marriage and for defending traditional Christian values.

    Romney/Traditional Marriages 2012!

  46. 46
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    Shorter GG: “As long as Obama (or any other politician) does what I approve of then I’m OK with it, no matter the motive(s).”

    Nothing surprising there.

  47. 47

    @AnotherBruce:

    I did read the whole thing, and everything is caveated to the mystery of Obama’s motive, mentioning such several times for effect, then says he does not care what his motives are on this issue. He lets us know his disdain for anyone countering his steamy piles of bullshit on other matters concerning OBama fail with full mind reads of Obama on those issues. No, that is incorrect. Hardly anything the guy says is fully true, except in the most esoteric sense. And this double speak drivel on what Obama did today, is just one more example.

    But yes, let’s highlight and celebrate what this one pundit has to say on one issue concerning Obama, and all reflect on the salience of Nun rape jokes in our liberal tents. And then we can go back to Obama worse than Bush. No thanks.

  48. 48
    Raven says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: Just havin a little laugh.

  49. 49
    kay says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    It’ll be interesting to watch Romney. They’re going to want him to lead the charge against Obama’s War on Marriage but I don’t think he’s capable of leading on anything.

    He didn’t want to deal with this, but I think he has
    to.

    There’s risk for Obama, but there’s risk for Romney, too. His ( actual) backers don’t want him sticking on “social issues”.

  50. 50
    The Moar You Know says:

    Oh fuck, facts.

  51. 51
    MTiffany says:

    “It’s just a risky position, and he rarely takes that kind of risk.”

    I don’t see how it’s risky. It’s not like the demographic opposed to gay marriage was ever likely to vote for Obama anyway. To paraphrase Gertrude Stein: a bigot is a bigot is a bigot.

  52. 52
    Trurl says:

    It also goes without saying – in non-cult precincts, at least – that if W. had demonstrated an emperor’s arrogance in saying that US troops dying in Iraq were “fighting for me”, you’d all rightly retch in disgust.

    But in this as in everything, IOKIYO.

  53. 53
    Marcellus Shale, Public Dick says:

    party at the moontower

  54. 54
    Jay C says:

    What’s to flame, John? IMHO, you’re absolutely right. I’ve never quite gotten the Obama-bashing coming from the emoprog “left” over BHO’s supposedly “lackluster” backing of gay issues. Yes, he’s trimmed and tacked before the varying winds of public opinion on the matter; but when push comes to shove, has come down (as you point out, with actions, not just words) on the right side of gay issues time and again.

    Not to mention, that however “lackluster” President Obama and his Administration may be, the alternative Party’s opinion ranges generally from “doesn’t give a shit about gay issues” as the most benign position, down to active hatred at the other pole.

    To me, the choice is obvious…

  55. 55
    patroclus says:

    The list of accomplishments is impressive – he’s the most gay friendly President ever. I’m glad even Greenwald recognizes this. This should energize the gay dollar even though it isn’t policy; albeit he’s got lots of policy accomplishments to back it up.

  56. 56
    LTMidnight says:

    @Trurl: GTFOH kid. Dan Choi did nothing but embarrass himself, just like you’re embarrassing yourself now. Proving that your issue with President Obama have nothing to do with his policiies.

    When he gets re-elected, whiners like you will be rendered completely irrelevent, and the progressive movement will be better off for it.

  57. 57
    Evolving Deep Southerner says:

    As a person who has lived in the Triangle for about half a year, and who got to cast his first vote as a newly transplanted North Carolinian against this piece of shit, well …

    It’s not the first vote I’ve cast in vain and have still felt good about. Hell, I’ve always lived in Deep South shitholes – some shitholes in all respects, and some which were just shitholes in terms of pervasive bigoted-ness – and this is the first time my county (Wake) actually voted my way on an issue like this. I’m sure as fuck proud of Durham. The urban/rural-slash-educated/uneducated divide in North Carolina is stark. And scary. All those librul elites that I work with – I do not consider myself one and probably will never be so – are taking stock of their fellow North Carolinians on this one.

    Obama did this the day after this piece of shit passed two to one in North Carolina – a fucking SWING state, one he’s been visiting about a twice a month lately – and for that reason, I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

    I mean, look at it objectively. He’s come out for a thing that’s demonstrably unpopular in a state that he really, really, really wants to win, and not just for the electoral votes.

    ETA: Can’t understand Charlotte at all. I mean, damn.

  58. 58

    @Linda Featheringill: They are loving ghosts, and that’s enough to make anyone real. Life is sweet beyond measure, and I can’t imagine anything less respectful of their love and their memory than spending it in mourning. I just try to make them proud.
    But thank you. Your kindness is a gift.

  59. 59
    Steve says:

    @Odie Hugh Manatee: Should anyone take a different view? If the President signs a law I approve of, I don’t care if he’s doing it for the most cynical political reasons known to mankind. What matters to me is that it’s a law.

  60. 60
    Baud says:

    @MTiffany:

    It’s not like the demographic opposed to gay marriage was ever likely to vote for Obama anyway.

    Sadly, not every voter who pulls the Dem lever is so enlightened as to support gay marriage.

  61. 61
  62. 62
    dmsilev says:

    @kay:

    It’ll be interesting to watch Romney. They’re going to want him to lead the charge against Obama’s War on Marriage but I don’t think he’s capable of leading on anything.

    Romney’s first reaction was certainly interesting. He attacked Obama for being a flip-flopper on the issue. Then he added:

    “This a very tender and sensitive topic as are many social issues,” Romney said, “but I have the same views I’ve had since running for office.”

  63. 63
    LTMidnight says:

    @Chyron HR: Exactly. People like Trurl need to be able to say “I told you so. If only he’d listen to me” because that’s the only way whiners like him stay relevant.

  64. 64
    David Koch says:

    you Øbots are hilarious, treating NØbama as if he was Gaybraham Lincoln, when the true hero of today’s announcement was dan choi

  65. 65
    Alison says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    He came out and expressed his opinion and hopefully it will move some Black Christian fundamentalists in the right direction and put opponents of SSM on the defensive.

    I liked that he couched his evolution/new stance on SSM in terms of his faith, because I saw that as sort of speaking to those of his supporters who are against gay marriage because they see it as against their Christian beliefs. We’ve all heard how religiously observant African-Americans are less supportive of SSM (though I don’t know how true that really is, and bet it’s less so than the punditocracy thinks), and so I felt like he was talking right to those folks, saying “Look, I’m just like you, we’re the same color, same religion…and this is how I came to this. You can, too.”

    I know a lot of progressive Christians who have said similar things, that rather than see their religion and their support for LGBTQ rights as at odds, they see the latter based in the former, and quite easily.

  66. 66
    LT says:

    That’s exactly what I thought. It’s easy to be cynical about these things – I think we all knew his position was a LIE – no need to pretend otherwise – Obama supported gay marriage until he thought America couldn’t take TEH BLACK! and TEH GAY! down their throats concurrently.

    Ahem.

    But I really thought he’d wait until his second term. This is very impressive.

  67. 67
    West of the Cascades says:

    President Obama’s has been the best administration ever on LBGTQ issues. Given that some would praise him for his “action” even if it is a statement, and others praise him for his statement even it is isn’t an action, and others would condemn him for not actually taking an action, and others condemn him for suggesting that we still have a federal system of government, and others support/condemn him for almost every imaginable reason, it is a pleasant surprise that President Obama wants to continue doing this thankless job, much less make a principled statement about his personal views on a controversial issue.

    Watching the different extremes of the internet react in wildly different screeching ways reminded me of the Onion’s story on November 5, 2008: “Black Man Given Nation’s Worst Job.” That seems triply-true after nearly three and a half years. Kudos to the President for making this statement.

  68. 68
    LTMidnight says:

    @Trurl: Cry some more, kid. Cry some more.

  69. 69
    Smiling Mortician says:

    @Trurl:
    “on my behalf” =/= “for me”

    Just sayin.

  70. 70
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    @MTiffany: And wasn’t healthcare reform risky from a political perspective?

  71. 71
    Jeff Spender says:

    I honestly don’t see how this is a loser for Obama. If the right decides to go full-on with the culture war stuff while most people are still worried about the economy I think that will be a loser for them.

    Sure, the 45% of completely morons in this country will always break for Romney. Still, I think all of the people hyperventilating about the right making a big stink out of this are being hysterical.

    This is Romney for Zoroaster’s sake.

  72. 72

    @dmsilev:

    He attacked Obama for being a flip-flopper on the issue.

    No one’s that obtuse, or un-self-aware.

  73. 73
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Baud:

    Well, the thing is, I don’t think a great number of them, trolls posting here notwithstanding, will make their decision solely on the basis of Obama’s position as outlined today.

    There are a number of other factors. The serious single issue voters hate him already.

  74. 74
    Suffern ACE says:

    @Trurl: Nope. That actually would have been one of the more truthful things he said. a little recognition that he conspired to put them there would have sounded almost accountable and such.

  75. 75
    The Moar You Know says:

    I love what the usual suspects have been reduced to. What they say is true. Sometimes you can really taste someone’s tears through a screen.

    Glenn just raped half his firebagger followers with this post and all they can do is take it and weep. Or so far with at least two posts on this thread, embarrass themselves even more. Guess when you’re robbed by your idol, you’ve got nothing left to lose.

    How’s it feel? I’m genuinely curious.

  76. 76
    pablo says:

    Turning Point!

    After 3 years watching him cave to the right whenever they whined about something while searching for bi-partisanship, IF he caved to the left thanks to “Joltin’ Joe”, then thank you FSM!!!!

  77. 77
    DCLaw1 says:

    “Gaybraham Lincoln,” hahaha.

  78. 78
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    @Jeff Spender: There are people like my mom who will probably vote for Obama but have trouble with gay marriage. She’s not evolving as fast as Obama is. We don’t want people like her staying home.

  79. 79
    chopper says:

    it is one area where he has been quite impressive

    lol, did someone hack greenwald’s blog?

  80. 80
    kay says:

    @dmsilev:

    I saw it. I think it’s very measured. But that isn’t what they want. I just don’t think the Republican Party activists can accept such a weak response.

    This is really his first big issue as Party Leader. I wonder if he takes it up or not. I think I already know he doesn’t WANT to deal with this, at all, which us why he hid his gay foreign policy advisor.

  81. 81
    AnotherBruce says:

    @General Stuck: Well, it’s your perogative to assume bad faith for everything the guy writes. I think he wrote in an effective way that motives don’t matter as much as actions do. But y’know, YMMV.

  82. 82
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @dmsilev:

    “This a very tender and sensitive topic as are many social issues,” Romney said, “but I have the same views I’ve had since running for office.”

    When he said this, polygraphs in Upper Volta and Kazakhstan exploded.

  83. 83
    Jeff Spender says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    More to the point, Obama needs to energize people to vote for him. The sword, don’t be surprised that it’s double-edged. By generation enthusiasm within his own base, he’s going to generate some for conservatives.

    I think it’s cunning. Give support for gay marriage, generating the usual nonsense by conservatives. Let them blather on about that for days or months or whatever while he continues to focus on his accomplishments and the economy.

  84. 84
    Trurl says:

    @Smiling Mortician:

    “On my behalf” != “At my behest”

    Nice try though.

  85. 85
    Baud says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: I tend to agree. I think it’s difficult to predict how it will turn out in the end. Hence, the risk.

  86. 86
    Chyron HR says:

    @Trurl:

    It’s funny how Obama is supposedly too dumb to say anything right without his teleprompter, and yet you’re dissecting something he said extemporaneously to find the secret layers of meaning.

  87. 87
    David Koch says:

    If NØbama really cared about gay marriage he would divorce Michelle and marry a man.

    But nooooooooooooooooooo! he won’t do that. which only proves he hates gays.

    what a betrayal.

    Time to primary NØbama for this blue-dog/conservadem announcement

    Grayson/Edwards 2012!

  88. 88
    cathyx says:

    I just love 3 threads that talk about the same subject so we can rehash the same arguments. So fun.

  89. 89
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    How’s it feel? I’m genuinely curious.

    How does it feel
    How does it feel
    To be on your own
    With no direction home
    Like a complete unknown
    Like a rolling stone?

  90. 90

    @Trurl:

    Are you fucking serious? The problem most people had with W was the fact that he wouldn’t acknowledge that there were kids dying in Iraq BECAUSE of him. At least POTUS now states that kids are fighting for him, cause you know he is CIC. He gives the orders, it sort of comes with the job.

  91. 91
    Baud says:

    @cathyx: I know. Gay marriage is so 4 hours ago.

  92. 92
    Keith G says:

    @Trurl:

    “fighting for me”

    Actually was “Fighting on my behalf” which I think was a mis-speak for “fighting on our behalf” which would be rhetorically correct and so what Obama said is also rhetorically correct, if a bit clumsy.

    Shorter me: I am very gay and I am very happy that finally Obama did the right thing. Your silly arguments are a waste of time.

  93. 93
    dmsilev says:

    @kay: His problem is that electoral logic says “pivot to the center”, which on this issue is actually somewhere around “civil unions”, but the seething distrust of his base means that he feels a strong pull towards the extreme right.

    What a dilemma. Maybe if he had an actual moral core, there’d be a way out.

    So sad.

  94. 94
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    @cathyx: Actually, we could probably use 3 more to get it out of our system. At least we’re getting it done in one day this time.

  95. 95
    Ira-NY says:

    Who could have predicted that the Baggers would not like it?

    If you have the stomach for it, here are Baby Jane’s acolytes’ demented take on this. It almost unbelievable.

    http://news.firedoglake.com/20.....-equality/

  96. 96
    Mino says:

    @Cheap Jim: Yep. Mr Nunn buried the knife and broke off the handle in Clinton’s back.

    There should be a special place for Dems like him.

  97. 97
    DCLaw1 says:

    By the way, has Adam Serwer always been a dick or is this a recent development?

  98. 98
    Alison says:

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent): Is your mom so anti-SSM that the President simply saying he’s okay with it is enough to make her not vote for him? I mean…I don’t want to assume anything about her, but fuck, please tell me you can convince her that’s completely ridiculous. He’s not going to show up at her door with a lesbian and force her to elope or something.

  99. 99
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    @dmsilev: There is a part of me that wonders if he’s announcing it now, rather than 2013, to keep Romney from moving to the center. I’m curious what else he could announce after this.

  100. 100
    LTMidnight says:

    A true story:

    I was riding the bus to work, and in front of me was this mom and her two daughters. One looked to be around 4 years old and the youngest one maybe turned one not too long ago. The one year old wanted a toy that the 4 year old had. She went ballistic right on the bus because she wanted that toy.

    It was obvious that this little girl was spoiled rotten, but I didn’t know to what extent until what i saw moments later. The mom acquiesced and took the toy away from the 4 year old and gave it to the one year old. As the 4 year old pouted, a woman sitting in front of the two girls gave the 4 year old a toy she just happened to have.

    Lo and behold, now the one year old wanted that toy and started going ballistic. The mom tried to hand her the original toy from earlier and the one year old threw it to the ground. That’s right, the same toy she was losing her damn mind over less than a minute ago, she literally threw to the ground.

    It was obvious that with this spoiled-rotten little brat, it wasn’t about the toy but about getting what she wanted, WHEN she wanted it.

    This is the type of behavior that people like Dan Choi, John Aravosis, Pam Spalding, and the emoprogs display constantly.

  101. 101
  102. 102
    David Koch says:

    gays would have to be crazy to support a homophobe like NØbama

  103. 103
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    @Alison: No, it’s not that bad. It’s a bit more subtle, but I pretty much have to keep pushing my parents to get them to vote. My concern with her is that this keeps her at home. She will not vote for a Republican, but, like I said, she’s not ready to accept gay marriage yet. I’m pretty sure I can get her to vote, but I doubt every older person that’s dealing with the changing country has someone to keep pushing them. Heck, Harry Reid had to be wishy washy:

    My personal belief is that marriage is between a man and a woman. But in a civil society, I believe that people should be able to marry whomever they want, and it’s no business of mine if two men or two women want to get married.
    __
    I handled a fair amount of domestic relations work when I was a practicing lawyer, and it was all governed by state law. I believe that is the proper place for this issue to be decided as well.

  104. 104
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    @patroclus: “This should energize the gay dollar…”

    Hold it right there! Gay dollars? Is an Obama plot to monetize teh ghey? Are there gay dollars in my wallet, tempting my hetero dollars to do the nasty with them?

    More importantly, is George Washington OK with this?

  105. 105
    amk says:

    Your last graf. Also. Too.

  106. 106
  107. 107
    CaliCat says:

    He had me until the Obama’s been horrible, horrible, HORRIBLE stuff. I know it’s the Obama Derangement Syndrome talking but it’s just so tiresome.

    Cue the “Clap louder” nuts in 3,2,1…

  108. 108
    LTMidnight says:

    Yet most of those accomplishments received little fanfare or were even downplayed by the very same activists who today are doing cartwheels over “just words.” It’s almost as if for some activists, affirmation is more important than accomplishments.

    Moonbats always need to feel good about being moonbats. That’s why they worship guys like Dennis Kucinich and Alan Grayson

    They talk a whole lot of feel good comfort food for liberals to enjoy, but both have or will leave office having accomplished nothing.

  109. 109
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Odie Hugh Manatee:

    More importantly, is George Washington OK with this?

    Dunno about Washington, but Hamilton was supposed to be a big fan of musical theater. Jackson, not so much.

  110. 110
    cthulhu says:

    I, like Cole, expected this after the election. But the more I think about it, the more it makes sense now. This question is bound to come up in the debates and now the Pres doesn’t need to resort to a weak waffle and Romney will now likely have to answer whether he at least supports civil unions in front of a national audience. Yes on that and his base is irate. No on that and he’s out of touch (again) with 70% of the electorate. So the gay marriage thing has now flipped as a wedge issue in the other direction.

    Regardless of any calculation, it is a good day for equality.

  111. 111
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    @Steve:

    That’s my point. GG is no different than most other people when it comes to their issues, he just has a bigger mouth that flaps a lot and frequently says stupid shit when his pet issues aren’t going his way.

    IOW, he’s nobody special but his followers sure think he is.

  112. 112
  113. 113
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Thinking about it, since Washington spends a lot of time shoved into G strings around the country, I’m sure he would be down with this.

  114. 114
    JGabriel says:

    @Alison:

    He’s not going to show up at her door with a lesbian and force her to elope or something.

    Wait, you mean Obama’s statement doesn’t mean we can go to homophobes’ homes and force them to gay marry?

    Dammit, there goes my weekend plans.

    .

  115. 115
    Irving says:

    I posted this downthread, but in case you didn’t see it… the e-mail from Obama recounting the interview and asking for donations just came in. All you jerks who said this was a “reluctant, hastily planned” interview can suck it. Obama knew precisely what he was doing – energizing the base, getting big donations, and shaving off 7% of the independent voters by taking a stand. The man knows how to get elected. Deal.

  116. 116
    Baud says:

    All you jerks who said this was a “reluctant, hastily planned” interview can suck it.

    Who said that?

    ETA: And don’t forget to donate.

  117. 117
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Baud:

    Sounds like something Cokie Roberts would say.

    I wonder if the loons are calling for the head of Sheppard Smith right now?

  118. 118
    Suffern ACE says:

    @Chyron HR:

  119. 119
    MikeBoyScout says:

    Words. Deeds. ….

    All I know is that THIS IS A BIG FUCKING DEAL!

    Changes. Turn and face the strain.

  120. 120
    JPL says:

    @kay: Mitt needs a new toy..The magic 8 ball because that changes the answer as much as he does but it’s more decisive. I think Mitt is a sick, sick man. A friend in MA said he governed for two years and then said well I can’t do this, I want to run for President.

  121. 121
    pragmatism says:

    I demand that all front pagers post on this topic. Randinho, you like Barcelona. Barcelona wore a pink away kit. So we know where you stand (h/t Jonah g.). Too little too late from obama?

  122. 122
    Keith G says:

    @LTMidnight:

    This is the type of behavior that people like Dan Choi, John Aravosis, Pam Spalding, and the emoprogs display constantly.

    Big fricking deal. I am often amazed at the time spent here insulting marginal characters.

    Teeny-tiny Lilliputians attacking slightly larger Lilliputians. I guess it feels good for some, but it is all so unnecessary. None of the voters we need to reach give a damn about the folks you list. How does spending time on them get us any closer to our goals?

  123. 123
    Evolving Deep Southerner says:

    @LTMidnight: I guess it was the same spoiled-one-year-old behavior MLK and his ilk displayed, too?

    That’s fucked up.

  124. 124
    James E. Powell says:

    @Irving:

    Obama knew precisely what he was doing – energizing the base, getting big donations, and shaving off 7% of the independent voters by taking a stand.

    And leaving no room or time for Romney to talk about whatever he wanted to talk about this week and weekend.

  125. 125
    Baud says:

    FWIW

    Dan Choi ‏ @ltdanchoi
    I am energized by @BarackObama supporting marriage equality; I look forward to his continued leadership.

  126. 126
    Concerned Citizen says:

    @JPL: My Aunt helped him out with his campaign. Crossed party lines to do so. After getting elected he totally fucked planned parenthood, abortion rights, etc… She was outraged. Many in Mass remember what a two faced scumbag this guy is.

    Here’s hoping he loses all 50. He is human garbage.

  127. 127
    Brian R. says:

    @Evolving Deep Southerner:

    I guess it was the same spoiled-one-year-old behavior MLK and his ilk displayed, too?

    If you think MLK wasn’t a shrewd political operator who was willing to compromise when needed, you need to read some actual histories of the man.

    He held off on criticizing the war in Vietnam until 1967, for Christ’s sake. He wasn’t a purist.

  128. 128
    JGabriel says:

    There’s some speculation out there that Biden’s so-called “gaffe” forced Obama to take a stand on gay marriage.

    I’m wondering if the opposite is true — that Obama was ready to take a stand, and had Biden make the “gaffe” on-purpose to gauge the reaction.

    .

  129. 129
    Irving says:

    @James E. Powell: I’m beginning to think that Obama’s strategy for dealing with the UNLIMITED CORPORATE CASH is constantly define the agenda and make their talking points irrelevant. They’re advertising about Solynedra now in Ohio. Who cares?

    I’m planning on donating my time: I canvassed last year and I’ll do it again. Until then, I’ll chip in in $25.

  130. 130
    Evolving Deep Southerner says:

    @Brian R.:

    He wasn’t a purist.

    Obama isn’t, either.

  131. 131
    4tehlulz says:

    @Baud: Even Dan Choi has betrayed True Progressivism(tm)

  132. 132
    The Moar You Know says:

    Dan Choi ‏ @ltdanchoi I am energized by @BarackObama supporting marriage equality; I look forward to his continued leadership.

    @Baud: And Choi with the rebound. A truly shitty day to be a firebagger.

  133. 133
    LTMidnight says:

    @Evolving Deep Southerner: I don’t recall MLK not thanking JFK and LBJ.

    And he sure as hell didn’t tie himself in knots to keep from giving them any credit whatsoever.

    All the names I mentioned have done so to this president at one time or another.

  134. 134
    Thymezone says:

    @David Koch:

    Dude, you are embarassing yourself now. Please try to put some effort into this.

  135. 135
    Clime Acts says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    I’m sure that the Obama 2012 team did a lot of work with focus groups and polls to see how this might affect the EC vote totals, and decided that it was a wash at worst.

    Exactly. Because apparently, like Mitt Romney, Prez Obama believes only what the polls tell him to believe.

    So principled and brave.

  136. 136
    Thymezone says:

    @cthulhu:

    It was always coming before the convention. They did not want a floor fight over gay marriage in the platform.

  137. 137
    LTMidnight says:

    @Baud: Thus proving Cole’s point when he said:

    It’s almost as if for some activists, affirmation is more important than accomplishments.

  138. 138
    Brian R. says:

    @Evolving Deep Southerner:

    Obama isn’t, either.

    Exactly. And that’s why he’s accomplished more in office than any president since LBJ, despite having the worst level of obstruction from an opposition party since … well, Lincoln, I guess.

  139. 139
    Baud says:

    @Clime Acts:

    So principled and brave.

    He really is. Thank you for your continued support.

  140. 140
    Thymezone says:

    @Keith G:

    You just tossed aside the entire rationale for blogs.

  141. 141
    Brian R. says:

    @Clime Acts:

    So principled and brave.

    How should we attribute that quote? “Anonymous Loudmouth on the Internet”?

  142. 142
    The Moar You Know says:

    I’m wondering if the opposite is true — that Obama was ready to take a stand, and had Biden make the “gaffe” on-purpose to gauge the reaction.

    @JGabriel: Even their harshest critics admit that this White House is not prone to making political mistakes. In hindsight, has Biden ever made a “gaffe” that didn’t end up being a clear signal of policy or direction?

    I think this was planned months ago.

  143. 143
    LTMidnight says:

    @Clime Acts: Get happy, kid.

  144. 144
    eemom says:

    As many of you know I am never one to shy away from a good flamewar, much less relinquish an opportunity to sneer at Greenwald.

    But fer fuck’s sweet sake. This really IS a big fucking deal. This really IS a great day in American history. Why can’t we all just STFU for FIVE MINUTES and enjoy it??

  145. 145
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Clime Acts:

    Yeah, well your opinion on ANYTHING and ten bucks will buy me a very weak latte.

    (the other $8.50 is a bribe to the barrista to listen to the opinion)

  146. 146
    Evolving Deep Southerner says:

    @LTMidnight: OK, so today, Pam Spaulding (for whom this hits VERY close to home) et al, should be saying … what?

    THANK you, Mr. President?

    I think I understand, very superficially, why it went down this way, but I can’t imagine that I – a white, conventially married straight male – can imagine what it’s like for Pam Spaulding and others I know who are already legally married in other places, and who live here. I would not call their complaints the wailings of a one-year-old denied a toy the four-year-old (African-Americans in “American political years?”) already has.

  147. 147
    LTMidnight says:

    As far as Romney’s response to this, sorry Mitty, not good enough.

    The evangelicals are going to want you to come out for a federal ban on SSM. Give them to the end of the week.

  148. 148
    Thymezone says:

    @eemom:

    Alas, it’s BJ, where the discovery of the cure for cancer would be greeted with outrage.

  149. 149
    robertdsc-PowerBook says:

    I’m glad the President did what he did. Don’t care about the rest.

  150. 150
    JGabriel says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    In hindsight, has Biden ever made a “gaffe” that didn’t end up being a clear signal of policy or direction?

    Well, to be honest, I’m not real sure what policy or direction was being signaled when Joe asked a MO state senator in a wheelchair to “Stand up, Chuck. Let’em see ya.

    .

  151. 151
    Baud says:

    @LTMidnight: Exactly! Ed just had a clip of W. urging a federal constitutional amendment against gay marriage. Romney can’t do any less.

  152. 152
    Keith G says:

    @eemom:

    Why can’t we all just STFU for FIVE MINUTES and enjoy it??

    Because the pressure caused by unused bitching would cascade exponentially through the Internets until it reached Cole’s house where it would explode through the router and blast Tunch’s fat ass into solar orbit.

    So you see, we are only doing this for Tunchie.

  153. 153
    r€nato says:

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent): Yes, thank you.

    It’s not all about bigots and homophobes and fundie Bible-bangers who won’t vote for Obama anyway. There are a fair number of independent-minded voters who are still uncomfortable with the idea of gay marriage, even if they may be tolerant of gays themselves.

    Add into that the very real possibility that the GOP will once again use gay-bashing to motivate voters who otherwise are very unmotivated to go out and work for and vote for Romney.

    And that NC is a swing state where the DNC is holding its convention.

    This was a move not without risk, much like OK’ing the raid on OBL’s compound. I’m thinking that perhaps he chose this moment to announce it, in order to get it out of the way well before the fall. It was all but obvious that he supports gay rights including marriage equality. I don’t think he wanted to spend the next several months equivocating on something that had become fairly obvious. Say it, get it done, then move on to talking about the economy and who got Bin Laden and putting Baron von Mitthausen on the defensive for the next several months.

    This president is indeed cautious by nature, but he’s shown he has the stones to make a bold call when it’s needed.

  154. 154
    eemom says:

    @Evolving Deep Southerner:

    I have a shitload of married gay friends on FB. All of them are celebrating, and none of them are whining.

    Indeed, one who did in fact travel all the way to bumfuck Canada to have a legally cognizable wedding re-posted her lovely wedding picture today in celebration.

    So yeah, I do think it’s a case of fuck the whiners.

  155. 155
    cthulhu says:

    @Thymezone:

    It was always coming before the convention. They did not want a floor fight over gay marriage in the platform.

    Well, yeah, though I figured that could be managed if needed to avoid theatrics. The PUMAs seemed even more riled up in 2008 and ultimately even the media drama machine couldn’t juice that into more than a piffle.

  156. 156
    eemom says:

    @Keith G:

    well all right then. : )

  157. 157
    Evolving Deep Southerner says:

    @Brian R.: If he was as purist as the LGBT community wanted him to be, every position he holds today would’ve been held by him back in early ’07.

  158. 158
    amk says:

    Ah, the birther, deather, racist pig 3-fer troll is here.

  159. 159
    LTMidnight says:

    @Evolving Deep Southerner: You missed the point of that story.

    For that little girl, it wasn’t about the toy. It was about getting what she wanted, when she wanted it.

    The girl acts the way she does with her mom because she knows she can get away with it. Do you think she would act that way to someone she knows would spank her little spoiled ass if she did?

    What’s wrong with saying “Atta boy Mr. President” when he does something good?

  160. 160
    Gex says:

    Obama deserves a ton of credit. For actually doing things that have helped gays in areas he has some control over. And for being willing to work this issue in his pragmatic way with frothing extremists yelling at him from either side.

  161. 161
    Evolving Deep Southerner says:

    @eemom: Glad to know that symbolism conquers all among your gay FB circle. Ask them again when they’re getting fucked at tax time compared to their compadres next year when they have the exact same circumstance, in terms of household, but end up paying significantly different taxes for doing so. If gay marriage ends up getting approved at the federal level, it’ll be over a tax complaint. You know that ol’ Supreme Court: If you can’t put a price tag on your grievance, it ain’t a grievance. Just whining. As you say.

  162. 162
    4tehlulz says:

    @Evolving Deep Southerner: If only we had a liberal W, utopia truly would be here.

  163. 163
    Evolving Deep Southerner says:

    @LTMidnight: I guess I did misunderstand your story. Who is the “Mom” there? And who administers this spanking?

  164. 164
    Evolving Deep Southerner says:

    @4tehlulz:

    If only we had a liberal W …

    What the fuck are you talking about? Dubya Bush? You’ve lost me here.

  165. 165
  166. 166
    cthulhu says:

    @LTMidnight:

    It was obvious that with this spoiled-rotten little brat, it wasn’t about the toy but about getting what she wanted, WHEN she wanted it.

    I realize the point of the story is as a metaphor but it not possible to spoil a one-year old or even a two-year-old. The circuitry is just not there yet. And I suspect the Mom was thinking more about the needs of the other passengers on the bus than she was about the needs of the one-year-old.

    Oh, and spanking in such a circumstance would seem completely random from the child’s view and would have no lasting impact other than instilling non-specific anxiety.

  167. 167
    LTMidnight says:

    @Evolving Deep Southerner:

    The “Mom”( or Dad if you will) is president Obama. As Cole has already linked, his accomplishments on LGBT issue speaks for themselves. And yet, there are certain gay “activist” that do nothing but whine and complain (***ahem***Dan Savage***ahem***John Aravosis****)

    The one doing the spanking will be the Republican candiddate (presumably Mitt) if he wins.

  168. 168
    ReflectedSky says:

    @karen: Would that he would decide to take progressive stances on more issues in order to get money — and then be held accountable by the people who gave him the money after the election. (Meaning, I’m further to the left than a lot of BJ commenters, but I think blame for left activist passivity ultimately needs to go to the people who choose to be passive.)

    John, I agree with both Glen and you. Great piece.

  169. 169
    Evolving Deep Southerner says:

    @LTMidnight: So Daddy Obama should tell them to quit their fucking whining and wait their turn, or else Mean Stepdaddy Mitt will spank them?

    And you don’t see how the LGBT community might not take that well?

  170. 170
    Evolving Deep Southerner says:

    @cthulhu: So the LGBT community’s “circuitry” isn’t yet in place to know what’s happening?

    I understand extending a metaphor, but I’ll be damned if that’s not an example of stretching one to a spectacular disintegration. Either that or it’s the most patronizing characterization of a mature community’s reaction to a political decision as I’ve ever seen.

  171. 171
    LTMidnight says:

    @Evolving Deep Southerner: “Daddy Obama” should just tune out the spoiled-rotten brat just like most normal people do and continue to do what he believes is right.

    Again, what’s wrong with saying “Thank you, Mr. President” when he does something good. Maybe he’ll be more inclined to listen to them more.

  172. 172
    4tehlulz says:

    @LTMidnight: If he listened to them, that would make them insiders, the worst possible outcome.

  173. 173
    cthulhu says:

    @Evolving Deep Southerner: What the? I wasn’t trying to extend the metaphor. It was, after all, presented as true event.

  174. 174

    @eemom:

    But fer fuck’s sweet sake. This really IS a big fucking deal. This really IS a great day in American history. Why can’t we all just STFU for FIVE MINUTES and enjoy it??

    I couldn’t agree more, but I suspect the answer is no.

  175. 175
  176. 176

    @patroclus:

    “The list of accomplishments is impressive – he’s the most gay friendly President ever. I’m glad even Greenwald recognizes this.”

    Took Greenwald long enough to realize this.

    I mean…he’s just been about laying into the President for the past three-plus years and now is when he pulls this “list of accomplishments” shit?

    Sorry Greenwald, nice going, but so long as he keeps shifting back to the “Obama’s worse than Bush/equal to Romney/bring on Ron Paul!!” line of bull, my respect for him will be very, very low–more like zero point zero.

  177. 177
    eemom says:

    @Evolving Deep Southerner:

    Yer gonna have to step up the pace of that Evolving if you aim to stop sounding like a point-missing dumbfuck any time soon.

  178. 178
    Chet says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: Unless it severely depresses turnout in the general amongst black evangelicals and/or black secular homophobes. I really, really hope I’m foolish to worry about such a possibility.

  179. 179
    eemom says:

    [headdesk]

  180. 180

    @Jeff Spender:

    Agreed.

    So…are you the last Martian?

    (Sorry–couldn’t resist a reference from The Martian Chronicles…)

  181. 181
    eemom says:

    @Evolving Deep Southerner:

    Or to put it more kindly — since I am TRYING to be gracious this evening — why didn’t you just stop after you ADMITTED that you as a straight man have no idea WTF you’re talking about?

  182. 182
    Faux News says:

    @The Very Reverend Crimson Fire of compassion:

    I am a 52 year old Gay man. The Reverend is preaching the truth. Those of us old enough to come of age during the rise of HIV/Aids concomitant with Reagan and the Christian Right (Moral Majority) well remember the horrors of that era. Hatred and Homophobia and Hysteria ruled our lives. While our friends literally shriveled up and died? Seriously Gay Marriage debate 25 years ago? LOL. An fucking ABSURD concept that would never happen! Not in our life times (for those of us still around to grow old). What President Obama has done for the Gay/Lesbian community is simply amazing. A president publicly endorsing Gay Marriage versus some Senile has been actor who refused to even acknowledge or say the word AIDS or HIV. It’s a no brainer kids. Obama wins.

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  184. 184
    HobbesAI says:

    Multiple ‘Gaybraham Lincoln’ mentions with no Electric Six link?

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    @Evolving Deep Southerner: Mecklenburg County (including Charlotte) voted NO on 1.

    What exactly did you not understand?

  187. 187
    SamR says:

    Barack Obama is my new bicycle again.

  188. 188
    MosesZD says:

    @Marc McKenzie:

    Being nice to gays doesn’t excuse war crimes, covering up war crimes, blowing up innocents, shredding the Constitution or any of the other bullshit he’s done.

    MKay?

    Stop playing “Team Democrat” and start playing “Team America.” You’d, unless completely stuck on yourself, see that some rights do not excuse even great wrongs.

    Here, let me play a Godwin on you:

    Hitler was a vegetarian! Therefore he wasn’t that bad. He didn’t cause the unneccesary suffering of animals in order to eat.

    Sounds pretty fucking dumb, doesn’t it? Well, hopefully the completely over-the-top sarcasm penetrated your Team Democrat head.

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    Keith G says:

    This does seem to be a nearly textbook example of a way to use the “bully pulpit”.

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    TG Chicago says:

    Those are real accomplishments, yet we still had folks (Dan Choi, Aravosis, I’m looking at you) flaming the President.

    I know you didn’t mean anything by it, but much like it’s a bad idea to talk about a “chink” in Jeremy Lin’s armor, it’s perhaps not the best idea to talk about gay men “flaming” Obama. Just food for thought.

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    Lojasmo says:

    @JGabriel:

    Obama cures paralysis, rmoney takes the credit.

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    Lojasmo says:

    @Clime Acts:

    I bet there was no polling on ending the war in Iraq or offing Bin Laden.

    Tora bora?

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    amk says:

    @MosesZD: Don’t bleed too much. You’re anemic as it is.

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    rdalin says:

    Excellent post. I really liked that you called out Choi and Aravosis for their nonsense.

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    Clime Acts says:

    @eemom:

    So yeah, I do think it’s a case of fuck the whiners.

    Back to old habits I see, eemom.

    The results of your scientific FB poll are impressive.

  196. 196
    Clime Acts says:

    @eemom:

    Or to put it more kindly—since I am TRYING to be gracious this evening—why didn’t you just stop after you ADMITTED that you as a straight man have no idea WTF you’re talking about?

    Ummm…are YOU a gay man or woman, eemom? I did not know that…

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    @MosesZD: As I’ve said elsewhere, I (and most Americans, for that matter) simply do not give a crap about your liberscaritan laundry list, especially when most of it’s not even correct.

    My top concerns are:

    1. Women’s rights
    2. The economy
    3. Kicking Republican jackasses out of Congress

    Anything else falls far, far behind.

    Sure, beat that equine skeleton into the ground. It’s not going to get you very far with most of the electorate.

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    eemom says:

    @Clime Acts:

    I am omnisexual, Timmy. : )

    And I never purported to be scientific. I am just reporting on the joy of many people I have known and loved for many years…..and if it’s good enough for them, it’s good enough for me.

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    eemom says:

    To be CLEAR — because God knows anything I say can and will be held against me — I absolutely don’t mean “good enough” in the sense of this is it, we’re done. Obviously this battle is nowhere close to being won.

    I simply mean what I said above, which has been agreed to by people on this thread who sure as shit DO have the right to say it — not to mention my fucking archenemy Greenwald: it is a huge and wonderful thing that the President of the United States has today said YES to marriage equality, and it IS a cause for celebration.

    And having said that, fuck it. This being nice is exhausting.

  200. 200
    LAC says:

    Frankly, greenwald can continue to go fuck himself and keep his chinless ass in brazil. He is not the patron saint of gays and his opinion and a pile of shit are about equal. And cliime twat? Please promise me that a run through interstate traffic is a possibity with you. Makes your opinions bearable.

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    karen says:

    @eemom:

    I’m Omnisexual too! It’s nice to know I’m not the only one! *high fives you*

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    Tana Butler says:

    I just wonder if anyone else rolls their eyes and burps whenever someone posts some political screed (or almost anything, including the seemingly innocuous) under an anonymous “name.”

    What in the heck is wrong with you people? USE YOUR NAMES. Be real. Be truthful. Don’t just snark and run.

    Anonymous trolling and mud-slinging is NOT improving the internet. And I’m not talking about “Anonymous,” the hacking entity dedicated to bringing down those who live with a sense of false security that they are more important than the world.

    “Anonymous Loudmouth on the Internet” applies to every single person who posts under ay other name but their own. (Yes, I’ve done it, to rankle a horrible snob of a blogger, but no more.)

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    Batocchio says:

    he is UNDOING much of the damage inflicted on the gay community by none other than Bill Clinton.

    It bears mentioning that Clinton was pressured to do that by members of his own party, the same assholes who the Villagers still regard as moderates, centrists and Very Serious People. But good for Obama and his administration.

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    Thymezone says:

    @Tana Butler:

    All due respect, screw you. After many years of internet and Usenet food fighting, I absolutely will not use my real name on the tubes, there are too many loopy and sick-ass people out there who will stalk, harass, and generally fuck with you in real life because they don’t like what you are doing online.

    Anyone who engages in any real internet discussion on any serious subject using his or her own name is a fool AFAIC, and I strongly urge against listening to this naive advice.

  205. 205

    @Thymezone:

    Anyone who engages in any real internet discussion on any serious subject using his or her own name is a fool AFAIC, and I strongly urge against listening to this naive advice.

    Whether it’s a real name or a pseudonym, what really matters is the idea shared, no?

  206. 206
    Yutsano says:

    @Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): Yesbut…my opinions on blogs have real-world complications for my employment. We get yelled at early and often to watch what we say and do on social media. They even passed a law about it. So I’m staying right here behind my pseudonym.

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    @MosesZD:

    “Stop playing “Team Democrat” and start playing “Team America.” You’d, unless completely stuck on yourself, see that some rights do not excuse even great wrongs.”

    Blah blah blah….

    I already played “Team America”–remember those motorized bikes back in the day?

    And I’m sure moving the goalposts is a great way to build muscles, asswipe.

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    rumpole says:

    I wonder if there’s a lesson here–strong stand = political goodwill and reversing bad Clinton decision via “triangulation’.

    Let’s hope some of that makes it over to dealing with banks…

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    […] a big deal. As John Cole pointed out yesterday, the president had already compiled an impressive amazing record for LGBT rights, a […]

  210. 210

    […] why it was a pleasure to stumble across a list like this, via Balloon Juice, that provides a list of the things that are within the President’s control on sexuality […]

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