If it feels good, say it

If you didn’t get a chance, check out the TNR review of Douthat’s latest that Anne-Laurie posted on earlier:

Some of Douthat’s mistakes appear trivial. He seems to think that Pope Pius XII’s encyclical Humani Generis (1950) was responsible for the silencing of the Rev. John Courtney Murray, S.J., but it wasn’t. He writes of pre-Vatican II Catholicism that “the Church’s abundance of vocations meant that a life of vowed poverty occupied a place of honor in Catholic communities,” although most priests then, as now, were diocesan clergy who do not take a vow of poverty. Only priests, sisters, and brothers who belong to religious orders take vows of poverty, and many bishops built magnificent mansions for themselves in the pre-Vatican II days to demonstrate the Church’s increasing prominence. Douthat refers to “Baltimore’s Cardinal Patrick O’Boyle,” but O’Boyle never lived nor worked in Baltimore.

Other mistakes are more troubling. Douthat betrays the degree to which he has drunk the Kool-Aid being distributed by the papal biographer George Weigel, the American Enterprise Institute’s Michael Novak, and other neoconservative interpreters of Catholicism. Douthat writes that “In the intervening decade Wojtyla [Pope John Paul II] had come to the same view of Christianity’s situation as had Novak and other American Catholic neoconservatives.” Alas, the view from the corner office at the Vatican is different from the corner office view at AEI. It was this same putatively neocon Pontiff who wrote in his encyclical Laborem Exercens, that “we must first of all recall a principle that has always been taught by the Church: the principle of the priority of labor over capital

Who cares if it’s factually correct, though, it felt good writing it and it felt good for William Saletan to agree that his good friend Ross Douthat was a reasonable, thinking blah blah blah.

Somebody shoot me please.

The whole world’s a big game of Calvinball for the Douthats and Saletans of the world, whether they call themselves “secular liberals” or “devout Catholics”. You change the rules to fit what you enjoy saying and believing. Facts are for the little people.

If you unwashed haters like the Calvinball rules du jour, you’re an ill person who hates the world. But wait a few days, and the rules will change.

80 replies
  1. 1
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    Own your illness, man.

  2. 2
    burnspbesq says:

    15-yard penalty for piling on.

    Or, more appropriately considering what sports are actually in season, a two-minute, non-releasable penalty for a late hit.

    The problem here is that some unknown but non-trivial number of people will now buy Douthat’s book in order to see for themselves whether he really is that stupid.

  3. 3
    burnspbesq says:

    And no, I will not shoot you. Suffering is good for your soul.

  4. 4
    DougJ, Head of Infidelity says:

    @burnspbesq:

    The problem here is that some unknown but non-trivial number of people will now buy Douthat’s book in order to see for themselves whether he really is that stupid.

    That’s the meanest thing you’ve ever said to me. But you may be right.

  5. 5
    Hill Dweller says:

    Chunky Bobo is a republican, which makes him immune to a loss of credibility.

    Same goes for Romney. He is blatantly and consistently lying, but is paying no price. On the contrary, Willard is getting far more positive coverage than the President, according to the new Pew study.

  6. 6
    Mark S. says:

    I love the part where he quotes Chunky quoting Novak, and all of the sudden it’s all Judge not lest ye be judged, The Lord works in mysterious ways, etc. at least when it is in regards to the rich. Sluts and homosexuals do not get the same treatment.

    If you think that this incalculably vast Universe was created so that the Supreme Being could obsess about sperm cells, than you have reached the level of enlightenment of Ross Douthat.

  7. 7
    PeakVT says:

    One might think a book-length demonstration of sloppy, fact-free analysis would get someone fired from a job where they are ostensibly providing analysis, but not in America.

  8. 8

    We’re beyond the Enlightenment, beyond Post-Modernism, I think we’re witnessing the birth of a new age: the Anti-Enlightenment.

    Science is no longer trusted. People do not tolerate provable facts that are contrary to their assertions. People don’t even bother with religion as it has been traditionally taught.

    We just make s*** up as we go along, call it the ‘truth’, and deny anything that would make us question our opinions.

  9. 9
    gaz says:

    @Hill Dweller: That’s because manufacturing this match up as a horse-race, rather than what it actually is (the most politically one sided fight in modern American politics) is good for business, dontcha know… it’s all about the drama and the eyeballs. Fact is a barely noticeable casualty in the race for profit.

  10. 10
    srv says:

    In between all these existential failures, the thugman asks “who is Obama, really?”

    http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c.....ing-theme/

  11. 11
    Punchy says:

    So Doug is pimping TNR who reviewed a Douchehat column that Anne discussed? Uh, lulwut?

    I have to ask….what does Sully think of this?

  12. 12

    Christians in disrarray! Liberty University students protest an invitation to Mitt Romney to deliver the commencement address, saying he’s not a Christian, he’s a member of a cult.

  13. 13
    4tehlulz says:

    BANG

  14. 14
    gaz says:

    @srv: lolwut? I read that article. False equivalence at the very least. He’s outlining specific areas where Obama’s team has ignored certain aspects of a message, in favor of a message they think will win votes. Krugman says they may be very wrong about their tactic.

    Good god man, I hope your post was snark.

  15. 15
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @Southern Beale: That’s good news for McCain Romney!

  16. 16
    MattF says:

    @Southern Beale: Good link.

  17. 17
    jl says:

    DougJ forgot David Brooks.

    Over the weekend I had time to read some the links in the post on Academically Adrift.

    In the past I have wondered whether there would be another famous policy book with statistics as messed up as Bell Curve.

    With Academically Adrift, my long wait may be over. I’m going to look at a copy to see whether it can really be that bad.

    If the reviews are correct, then there is stuff in Academically Adrift that is not even sensible enough to be wrong, which is worse than the Bell Curve.

  18. 18
    some guy says:

    curious, but how did the DoucheHat deal with all those numerous passages in the New Testament that obsess over contraceptives and abortion? That must have been a bit of good sport for Mr. Monogamy, giving him clear scriptural support for his pro-abstinence message.

  19. 19
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @jl: I just realized the function of Punditubbies in the Media Village. It is to generate nonsensical memes, which other villagers pick up and spread and they soon become the collective conventional wisdom.

    Some examples
    1. Schools are failing
    2. Austerity is good
    3. Obama has not been vetted.

    and so on..
    Bobo seems to be starting a new meme, our higher education is in crisis. We all know what the solution is, privatize, gut regulation and it will all work out in the end.

  20. 20
    gaz says:

    @some guy: When Douthat can argue for abstinence only education, using facts, figures and studied outcomes, I will take him seriously.

    Which basically means never. I have house pets that are more coherent, rational and articulate than this idiot.

    Douthat and I are both Jesus fans. The difference between him and I is that what I take away from Jesus’ message is actually backed by studies of human behavior. Sentiments like, “love your neighbor and your enemy”, and “look out for people less fortunate than you are” actually have measurable societal benefits. He must have been reading all of the wrong parts.

  21. 21

    Meanwhile, back at the front, and the Clintonista concern troll brigade are busy as beavers telling Obama how things are done, or should be done.

    Obama’s missing theme – seems to be the meme wankery of the day, with Ed Luce kicking it off and Krugman piling on with the Obama/wimp canard, stroking his bullshit about the too small stimulus. Probably started with Big Dawg Bill providing the black guy POTUS some of his DLC wizardry. Somebody ought to stick a sock in the mouths of the lot of them, and explain how Obama is doing pretty good, and haz got more prog things done in 3 years than Clinton in 8, unless you count gutting welfare and repealing Glass-Steagall amongst his accomplishments.

    Oh, and then there is the always pure grade PUMA idiocy of Taylor Marsh, breathing a sigh of relief now that her hero rides in on his white libtard horse, with his white progressive advice, once again ministering the incompetent negro upstart. Just stfu already, Clinton suckers, and go count some centrist cash, or something.

    And a pre fuck you to any firebagging jackass that might wander into this thread.

  22. 22
    pragmatism says:

    OT but a study showing how “in the tank” the librul media is for Obama: http://www.journalism.org/anal.....ck_obama_0

  23. 23
    Nylund says:

    Hopefully, eventually, some form of AI, mixed with wikipedia or something can eventually automatically flag factually incorrect sentences much like how spell checkers can now automatically underline misspelled words. This would work not just on the writer’s side (like spell check does), but on the reader’s side as well so that whenever you come across a website with some sort of lie, it clearly underlines the passage with a big read squiggly line.

  24. 24
    gaz says:

    @General Stuck: LOL. I’ll probably get flamed for this, but I pretty much agree with Krugman’s latest piece. And I like Obama. He’s getting his 2nd term, BTW – no matter what Krugman says.

  25. 25
    Jay B. says:

    You think it’s bad now, just wait until Goldberg’s Magnus Dopus “The Tyranny of Cliches” comes out.

    You can’t even get past the fucking cover before it negates his thesis about cliches.

    And this, from the blurb on Amazon is impressive!

    “According to Jonah Goldberg, if the greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist, the greatest trick liberals ever pulled was convincing themselves that they’re not ideological”

    What?

  26. 26
    Tonal Crow says:

    @Comrade Dread:

    WeRepublicans just make s*** up as we they go along, call it the ‘truth’, and deny anything that would make us them question our their opinions.

    Fixed for clarity. Republicans are filling the discourse with bullshit so that the public perceives bullshit and truth as having similar value. Once that occurs, Republicans win because it’s much easier to argue bullshit than it is to argue the truth.

    The only question on the table should be how we defeat these nihilistic propagandists before they defeat rationality itself.

  27. 27
    arguingwithsignposts says:

    @burnspbesq: There can NEVER be a late hit on stupid.

  28. 28
    Ash Can says:

    From the link:

    My problem with Douthat’s book is not that his opinions differ from my own. My problem is that he does not seem to have any idea what he is talking about.

    LULZ

  29. 29
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    This might be appropriate: The death of Fact.

  30. 30
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Jay B.: Fight the tyranny of cliches by fighting a bunch of cliches? Woah, too meta for me

  31. 31
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @Ash Can: That’s my problem with the original Bobo, whenever he talks about Economics or Science.

  32. 32

    @gaz:

    but I pretty much agree with Krugman’s latest piece.

    Sorry to hear that. Krugman is a pansy ass ivory tower denizen who wouldn’t know political shit from apple butter. He’s the one that spelled certain economic doom from the ‘too small’ stimulus. He needs to shut the fuck up, and take notes from his political and intellectual superior, President Obama. At least till the election is over, then go back to the usual wanking.

  33. 33
    jl says:

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    I guess. One review had a quote from Academically Adrift to the effect that type I and type II error ‘wash out’.

    The book’s results depend on a little over 1000 statistical tests on around 2000 subjects. (Edit: apparently tests on individual exam results with some kind of mystery meat average standard error of something unspecified. Folks, this is stats on very bad speed with enough moonshine to cause alcohol poisoning, and maybe some acid thrown in.)

    What the devil do those people think they are doing?

    If I had a student who made Bell Curve type mistakes, I would not panic and would not get pissy. They are understandable mistakes a person up through intermediate applied multivariate statistics might make. So I would make an appointment to work through the issues.

    If the reviews of Academically Adrift are accurate, I would wonder how the student got through an introductory course. I might suggest they drop by the student med clinic for a check up. Were they having blackouts? Suddenly getting confused about where they were while at home?

  34. 34
    Culture of Truth says:

    Likewise, I like Krugman, but must respectfully disagree with his recent piece. Every time I see a Team Obama person on tv they say what Kthug says they be doing, abjuring happy talk and saying we’re making progress, but there’s still more to do, we’re not out of the woods yet, we’re adding jobs but unemployment is still too high.. etc.

    “But I have seen nothing these past three years suggesting that the political team has any idea how to play this game”

    No, nothing!! Unhappy talk, much?

  35. 35
    R Johnston says:

    @Southern Beale: Whether or not mormonism is a cult, it’s definitely not christianity. Mormonism isn’t the result of a doctrinal split within the church and it isn’t the result of an isolated cadre of christians evolving different ideas over time. What it is is the result of a con-man who lived among christians and wanted a con that felt familiar enough to draw converts but also was distinct enough that in the beginning, regardless of what mormonism is or is not now, it was a cult where the con man could exert direct control over his subjects’ lives and money. The distinct non-christian elements of mormonism persist even as mormonism has become less cult-like, are doctrinally critical, and have nothing whatsoever to do with an evolution of christian theology.

    It makes no more sense to call a mormon a christian than to call a muslim a christian, and no one would call mormons christians on the basis of doctrine if mormonism weren’t mainstreamed in the U.S. where claiming to be christian is a political advantage regardless of doctrine.

  36. 36
    Ash Can says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: For sure. And the fact that there are so many of these overpaid, overpublicized morons makes it all the more gratifying when at least one of them gets called out for his/her public idiocy.

  37. 37

    @Culture of Truth:

    You nailed it, and the reason it is important is that we are in the middle of an epic do or die election for the country, and maybe the world.

    And apparently, it is lost on some people that Obama has been for awhile now, publically spanking the goopers enough to give Ruth Marcus, among others, a case of the galloping vapors. But still the white liberal privilege keeps plugging along, to the sound of its own drum of we can do better than Obama. No you can’t but if you want to offer advice, show a little fucking respect.

  38. 38
    Steeplejack says:

    @General Stuck:

    [. . .] Krugman piling on with the Obama/wimp canard, stroking his bullshit about the too small stimulus.

    WTF? I thought Krugman was pretty reasonable. Here’s what he actually wrote, as opposed to what you read:

    Obama defenders do in fact have a clear story, which goes like this: he was confronted both with a very bad economy and with complete political obstruction–which mattered, by the way, even when Democrats controlled both houses of Congress, because of the filibuster. So he did what he could, via stimulus and other policies, and pulled the economy back from the brink. If he hasn’t done more, well, maybe he could have gotten a somewhat bigger stimulus, maybe he could have done more on housing relief, but on the whole he did pretty well given the political environment.
    __
    Let’s not get into the question of whether he could, in fact, have done considerably more. The point for now is that this is not the story the administration has been telling, at any point. First they insisted that the clearly inadequate stimulus was just right; then they have tried various anodyne slogans nobody remembers, all of which seem to imply that we’re doing just fine.
    __
    Presumably this reflects the judgment of the political team, which apparently believes that pointing out obstruction conveys an impression of weakness, and that happy talk is better than a Trumanesque campaign of hammering the do-nothing Republicans in Congress. But I have seen nothing these past three years suggesting that the political team has any idea how to play this game–and the happy talk leaves them completely flatfooted every time the economy underperforms.

    He’s not knocking Obama so much as his political team–which has done a God-awful job of getting a coherent message out and putting a beatdown on the Republicans and their economic bullshit.

  39. 39
    Ash Can says:

    @General Stuck: I’m not entirely on board with Krugman’s latest myself, but I certainly wouldn’t go so far as to say what you’re saying. Krugman on a bad day is still head and shoulders above the likes of Douthat and all the other pseudo-intellectual ass-pimples that make up a large portion of American punditry.

  40. 40
    srv says:

    @General Stuck: Actually, he predicted it would run out in mid 2010 and get a bunch of Republicans elected.

    But keep celebrating your minor depression.

  41. 41

    @Steeplejack:

    Oh please. Enough of this wankers passive aggressive wanking. Talking out of both sides of his mouth. That may impress you, but it doesn’t me. Krugman is dishonest, not only in his promotion of selected portions of his Keynesian theory, but failing to acknowledge that there has been a bunch of extra stim spending snuck into all sorts of other bills. Just not labeled ‘stimulus’. He predicted doom for the economy, if Obama hadn’t done what Krugman says he should have. Does doom look like it is happening at the current time?

    Presumably this reflects the judgment of the political team, which apparently believes that pointing out obstruction conveys an impression of weakness, and that happy talk is better than a Trumanesque campaign of hammering the do-nothing Republicans in Congress

    Maybe you and Krugman should start watching Obama’s speeches and events more. He has been doing precisely the above, for months now.

  42. 42

    @srv:

    It didn’t run out in 2010, and had about nothing to do with the 2010 election. Moron.

  43. 43
    dedc79 says:

    Glad to see someone’s at least calling him out on it. I listened through a whole freaking NPR interview of Douthat waiting for a single question challenging his “thesis”. I didnt hear any.

  44. 44

    @Ash Can:

    Krugman on a bad day is still head and shoulders above the likes of Douthat and all the other pseudo-intellectual ass-pimples that make up a large portion of American punditry.

    I don’t think I said anything remotely comparative with Douthat, or anyone else. What I said was straight up criticism of Krugman, same thing he does with Obama. And knowing full well that the guy is like liberal royalty around here and the liberal blogs.

  45. 45
    Nutella says:

    Some of Douthat’s mistakes appear trivial. He seems to think that Pope Pius XII’s encyclical Humani Generis (1950) was responsible for the silencing of the Rev. John Courtney Murray, S.J., but it wasn’t. He writes of pre-Vatican II Catholicism that “the Church’s abundance of vocations meant that a life of vowed poverty occupied a place of honor in Catholic communities,” although most priests then, as now, were diocesan clergy who do not take a vow of poverty. Only priests, sisters, and brothers who belong to religious orders take vows of poverty, and many bishops built magnificent mansions for themselves in the pre-Vatican II days to demonstrate the Church’s increasing prominence. Douthat refers to “Baltimore’s Cardinal Patrick O’Boyle,” but O’Boyle never lived nor worked in Baltimore.

    The converts never get anything right, do they? All they’ve got is too much enthusiasm and a totally skewed view of what Catholicism is.

    Too bad nobody ever gets fired or loses book deals for ignorance. Whatever happened to our storied USian meritocracy? /snark

  46. 46
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @jl: Bobo doesn’t care about academic integrity, he just wants to create a meme that will benefit his party and its agenda.

  47. 47
    gnomedad says:

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    gut regulation

    I thought they didn’t want FLOTUS to regulate our guts.

  48. 48
  49. 49
    Steeplejack says:

    @General Stuck:

    Does doom look like it is happening at the current time?

    No, it does not. And that is not what Krugman predicted. He said that because the stimulus was too small the recession would drag on much longer, which it did and has continued to do, despite blips in the jobs numbers.

    I am behind Obama 100 percent, but I think you’re demonizing Krugman, and I think Obama’s economic message is not getting out to the general public, only to sophisticated tea-readers such as yourself.

  50. 50
    Culture of Truth says:

    Speaking of NPR, they spent all Earth Day promoting one pro BP piece after another. Bacteria ate all the oil! Gulf shrimp are delicious! We’re all to blame for rig explosions!

    Talk about happy talk.

  51. 51
    shortstop says:

    @gnomedad: This made me think of gut flora. Sorry for sharing that.

  52. 52
    Citizen Alan says:

    @Southern Beale:

    Christians in disrarray! Liberty University students protest an invitation to Mitt Romney to deliver the commencement address, saying he’s not a Christian, he’s a member of a cult.

    Pass the popcorn. I am laughing my ass off at the spectacle of people who have been shrieking for years that Mormonism is a satanic cult and who will now grudgingly pull the lever for a satanic cult leader because the alternative is a black man. I’m actually looking forward to going to church with my mom on Mother’s Day to see what the pompous blowhard preacher at her church thinks about it.

  53. 53
    jl says:

    @General Stuck:

    ” Krugman is dishonest… in his promotion of selected portions of his Keynesian theory, but failing to acknowledge that there has been a bunch of extra stim spending snuck into all sorts of other bills… doom.

    Could you expand on those three, and mention where I might find Krugman doing those things, or give links?

    Particulary the distort Keynesian theory and doom predictions.

    As for being dishonest about the stimulus, taht might be true in his commentary, but the stats I have seen him give are aggregate statistics of actual spending ove time, so not sure why he needs to keep track of every change in legislation or budget maneuvers.

    Edit: BTW, I take no position on the quality of Krugman’s political analysis. People can demonize or defend him all they want for all I care.

  54. 54
    Culture of Truth says:

    Well sure, a big stimulus is good, and a really big stimulus is better than a merely big one. Good PR is good, really good PR is even better. Ok.

    By the same token, Krugman is a good columnist, he could be an even better one. To me there is not much “there” there, except his accusation of endless happy talk, which is simply not what I see coming from the White House or the campaign.

  55. 55
    Citizen Alan says:

    @General Stuck:

    You know, you’re not actually helping Obama nearly as much as you think by acting like the absolute worst caricature of a hysterical Obot cultist.

  56. 56
    Hill Dweller says:

    @srv: Republicans won because they scared the hell out of seniors with tall tales about Obama stealing their medicare.

    Polls have consistently shown the country blames Bush for the recession. Moreover, a bigger stimulus might have helped things turn around more quickly, but it still would have been undermined by the massive budget cuts at the state level.

    Remember, because the Republicans filibustered the stimulus, it gave Senate ‘centrists'(Snowe, Nelson, Collins, etc.) all the power. Said centrists used their power to arbitrarily reduce the size of the House version of the stimulus in conference by 100 billion(including 40 billion in state aid). In other words, those rocket scientists actually supported counter-cyclical fiscal policy, but completely contradicted themselves by reducing its size and effectiveness, because in their minds it made them look Broderesque.

    Obama has made mistakes, but we have to keep in mind he is working with the most right wing Republican and Democratic parties in modern political history.

  57. 57
    burnspbesq says:

    @gaz:

    I have house pets that are more coherent, rational and articulate than this idiot.

    That doesn’t make you special. That doesn’t even make you unusual. That just makes you a pet owner.

  58. 58

    @Steeplejack:

    but I think you’re demonizing Krugman

    I certainly do hope so. I’ve listened to that chubby little ratfucker wank the Obama is a wimp meme one too many times. As all the other PUMA shitheads then join right in. Krugman cares the most about keeping his PUMA/firebagger base of readers happy with this kind of rotten red meat of Obama fail, and maintaining the illusion that everything would be better if Obama had followed his advice. Krugman can’t carry Obama’s lunch pail on politics AND the economy, and when he writes this kind of swill, I will say what I think about.

  59. 59

    @Citizen Alan:

    Blow it out your ass. Obot cultist that.

  60. 60
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    This vile asshole REALLY needs a tumbrel ride, stat.

    Utterly worthless, dishonest, fascist…no redemption for the utterly evil likes of Douchehat.

    He is scum. Dispose of him.

  61. 61
    Culture of Truth says:

    Stay Classy, WaPo

    Obama’s Disingenuous Holocaust Speech
    By Jennifer Rubin
    “the speech was somewhat grotesque and hugely hypocritical”

  62. 62
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Southern Beale:

    Christians in disrarray! Liberty University students protest an invitation to Mitt Romney to deliver the commencement address, saying he’s not a Christian, he’s a member of a cult.

    These mindless fools should look in the motherfucking mirror if they want to see a member of a cult.

    Damn, we need arenas full of hungry lions.

  63. 63
    eemom says:

    @Southern Beale:

    Liberty University students protest an invitation to Mitt Romney to deliver the commencement address, saying he’s not a Christian, he’s a member of a cult.

    omg, that is SO fucking awesome. Because you just know the whole REASON for the invite in the first place is to start making the case for Mormony Mittens to the mouth-foaming fanatics that are the “base” of the republican party.

    But the little baby fanatics ain’t having it. hee hee hee.

  64. 64
    Steeplejack says:

    @Culture of Truth:

    [. . .] endless happy talk, which is simply not what I see coming from the White House or the campaign.

    Okay, what is coming from the White House? What’s their “nutshell” message? I just Googled “Obama 2012 speeches on the economy” and didn’t get much more than a bunch of links to the State of the Union address.

    I’m not the biggest political junkie in the world, but I read this blog and a few others pretty closely, and for the life of me I can’t see what Obama’s “message” is, other than things are getting better but it’s going to take a while. I know what (I think) the reality is: he has done a tremendous job in the face of bitter obstructionism from the Republicans. But I don’t see that message getting out to the public at large. Maybe he’s being too “presidential” and nonconfrontational, or maybe I just want to see him start to lay the blame where it belongs. We’re not suffering through something like a stretch of bad weather; the crisis was caused by policies created by real people–mostly the Republicans–and this fact needs to be pointed out and hammered home. And forcefully enough that Joe Six-Pack actually hears it.

    Maybe as Obama swings into the campaign season he’ll do more of this. But right now I do think there is a message gap.

  65. 65

    @jl:

    You know, we’ve been down this road before, and I have given you the reasons and sometimes links to back what I am saying. So this time, I will simply say that he has been obsessed with just the ‘federal money stimulus’ aspect of Keynsian theory, poo pooing or downplaying other factors like significant structural problems in play, to name one, and his bullshit on Obama caving with the debt deal, and not acknowledging clearly, the role of long term deficit reduction. Not to mention, I don’t recall him clearly and loudly support extending the Bush tax cuts right now, as part of the total keynesian package.

    He mentions these things in passing, at times, I suspect for cover when someone calls him on it, but his main obsession was with the size of gov. stimulus. So, I guess the fact that now we are recovering, after three short years of the worst recession since the GD, and Krugman and his acolytes are saying THIS is what he predicted with too small of stimulus. Give me a fucking break.

  66. 66
    priscianusjr says:

    I’ve gradually come to the conclusion that Republican ideology has morphed into a new religion of its own, of which there are at least three flavors — Protestant, Catholic, and Jewish — with obvious differences of form, but basically the same content. And that content is not the traditional spiritual content of any of those religions. On the formal side, they do a pretty good imitation. In retrospect, you can see this was already happening in the 1980s.

  67. 67
    slag says:

    @gaz:

    When Douthat can argue for abstinence only education, using facts, figures and studied outcomes, I will take him seriously.

    Like any other conservative, he probably saves his love of science for when he thinks it shows that black people are inferior. Otherwise, he has no need for it.

  68. 68

    @Culture of Truth:

    Now see what you did? You made me go over to wapo and read Rubin’s column! Shame on you!

    What would an acceptable speech included? I think that everybody who contributed to that disaster is dead now and we don’t have a time machine and so can’t go back and fix it. We cannot undo it. We can only remember it.

  69. 69
    karen marie says:

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    Bobo seems to be starting a new meme, our higher education is in crisis.

    No, as usual, Bobo is a follower, not a leader. The efforts to privatize not just elementary and secondary schools but state colleges as well, because giving “colleges the freedom to bolster their bottom lines in new ways” is more important than increasing the number of educated workers.

  70. 70
    Mike E says:

    @Culture of Truth: Not just on NPR, but the ANGA/ConocoPhilips/ExxonValdesMobil carpet-bombing of the media airways has been quite impressive on a Shock’n Awe level. Those record profits aren’t going to waste.

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    Okay, what is coming from the White House? What’s their “nutshell” message?

    I have no idea what the rest of the country is getting, but my own personal experience is that the economic message a lot of non-political junkies are hearing is coming from the Republican outlets.

    My parents aren’t die hard Republicans who religiously tune into talk radio, they’re the mostly non-political independent types, and I caught my dad saying stuff the other day about how Obama’s made things worse for the country.

    Same thing about the ACA. I’ve talked to a lot of folks who have no idea what’s in the law, but are against it because ‘soshalism’. It’s not until I start pointing out actual provisions in the law that they start to thaw a bit. And no one knew that most of the ACA actually started life as part of a Republican package of health care reforms in the 90’s.

    Maybe it’s because the corporate media refuse to call bulls***, bulls***. Maybe it’s because the GOP has cultivated a pretty wide media network to distribute their message, or maybe it’s because the GOP has a coherent voice and punishes dissenters.

    But from my own personal experience, Krugman has a point. The message isn’t getting out there. It’s being drowned out by bulls***.

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    Culture of Truth says:

    There may be a “message gap,” As I said, PR could always be better. I’m sure you’re aware of the silver spoon speech, he gives speeches like this all the time.

    In any case, my quibble was with Krug’s use of the phrase “happy talk,” which he used 3 times in a short piece. I too have problems with the Obama message machine, but this seems to me to be a problem Krugman feels in his gut to be true rather something that is actually happening.

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    Culture of Truth says:

    Romney: Obama caused the recession
    Rubin: Obama caused Communism in China

  74. 74

    @Culture of Truth: I think it’s safe to say that unless we’re killing a few million people to stop something that could possibly happen (but has a statistical probability of someone being struck by lightning after winning a billion dollar lottery), that Jennifer Rubin will be unhappy.

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    @Comrade Dread:

    http://politicalwire.com/archi.....obama.html

    Have you looked at recent polls? Not only on Obama’s high favorables, and around 50 50 approvals he’s had since day one, but the internals of those polls. They are a nightmare for the republicans, and Romney is the epitome of that nightmare, so they get the depravity of the wingnuts, and that runs square into the tribalism of the white party GOP, within a white majority country. So we have Obama leading in head to head polls, but those are unreliable this early, to determine the view the country at large has about the wingnuts, and that is mostly in the shitter. And seems to get worse by the day. So peruse some national polling, and also the swing state polling that is swinging solidly in the dems favor.http://politicalwire.com/archi.....obama.html

    The ACA is a tough one, as having really not gone into effect yet. And is clear that the mandate is sticking in the throats of a lot of people. It is an easy target to demogogue for the wingers, mostly due to it not in effect yet, and most folks realizing it won’t effect them if they have insurance already. I don’t know if messaging by dems and Obama on the ACA can do much good till the law takes full effect.

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    srv says:

    @Hill Dweller:

    (CNN) The economy isn’t just the most important issue to voters this year – with unemployment hovering around 9.6 percent, it’s roughly twice as important to them as the other top issues of concern combined, according to early exit polls.

    Sixty-two percent of voters name the economy as their most important issue this year. Health care ranks a distant second, at 19 percent.

    r

    People worried about their jobs voted. People who were unemployed and gave up on the hopey changey stuff didn’t.

    Glad the stuckian’s have decided they don’t and still don’t matter.

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    @srv:

    You have no idea what you are talking about, beginning with the claim that the stimulus had been spent before the 2010 election, when most of it hadn’t, and of course jobs and the economy were important, but the 2010 election was in line historically with other ones like it, and the exit polling was clear that seniors voted in larger numbers and flipped republican by 20 points, all on account of wingers scaring them mediscare.

    Glad the stuckian’s have decided they don’t and still don’t matter

    LOL, the stuckians are laughing.

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    Sly says:

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    Bobo seems to be starting a new meme, our higher education is in crisis. We all know what the solution is, privatize, gut regulation and it will all work out in the end.

    It’s not about privatization or regulation; in the end it’s always about deprofessionalizing the labor pool.

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    Baron Jrod of Keeblershire says:

    Anybody who is still whining about PUMAs in 2012 really needs to get the fuck over it already.

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    brantl says:

    @General Stuck: Panys ass ivory tower citizen or not, he’s still right.

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