#TrayvonMartin: The Zimmerman Apologist Train is Careening Wildly Off-Track

I’m not a fan of Nancy Grace, but this is worth watching for further insight into the depths of the cover-up that is going on down in Florida:

Clearly, the video released by ABC News yesterday destroys Zimmerman’s claim that Trayvon attacked him.

Additionally, the funeral director has stated that there was no signs on Trayvon’s body that would indicate that he had been in a fight. So we have a video of Zimmerman where he’s unbloodied, unbruised, not wincing in pain, and wearing clean clothes, and we have Trayvon Martin with no cuts or bruises on his hands; but somehow we’re supposed to believe that Trayvon punched Zimmerman in the nose hard enough to break it, then slammed Zimmerman’s head into the ground, and began beating him?

No. That did not happen. It makes no damn sense.

Aggressively stupid people like Dan Riehl are claiming that the grainy video shows a wound to his head:

Following up on a Daily Caller report, I did my own enhancement. [I’ll bet you did, Dan. -ed.]  I altered sharpness and contrast and enlarged a screen grab from the video, pictured below.

~snip~

One has to wonder if ABC did any video analysis on the footage at all. How is it not, at the very least, open for speculation as to what the video shows as regards Zimmerman’s injuries.

The claim all along has been that Martin was bashing Zimmerman’s head into the ground, or sidewalk. This image appears to support that version of events, certainly enough for speculation, making the claim ABC put forward extremely dubious, if not flat-out wrong.

Z-Enhanced

What is this arrow even pointing to?  Is this supposed to be a wound consistent with Travyon “bashing Zimmerman’s head into the ground”?  Is this video suppose to prove that Zimmerman was “likely” cleaned up at the scene?

Aggressively stupid person Dan Riehl also claims that the mugshot being circulated demonstrates that Zimmerman was “likely” cleaned up at the scene.  Small problem, though — the mugshot is from 2005!

There is quite literally no limit to Dan Riehl’s stupidity.

The bottom line is that the video annihilates Zimmerman’s claims that Trayvon beat the shit out of him. There’s no blood, no swelling, no wincing in pain — NADA.

Quite simply, what the Sanford Police Department is saying happened did not happen.

What the Sanford Police Department told Tracy Martin, Trayvon’s father, also did not happen:

According to Tracy Martin, the Sanford, Fla., detective recounted this sequence of events: Trayvon Martin walked up to Zimmerman’s vehicle and asked why he was following him. Zimmerman denied following the youth and rolled up the car window.

Minutes after Trayvon walked away, Zimmerman got out of his vehicle. Then came the second encounter, according to Tracy Martin’s recollection of the detective’s account. Trayvon Martin appeared from behind a building in Zimmerman’s gated community, approached him and demanded, “What’s your problem, homie?”

When Zimmerman replied that he didn’t have a problem, Martin said, “You do now.” The unarmed teenager hit Zimmerman, knocked him to the ground, pinned him down and told him to “shut the [expletive] up.”

During the beating, Zimmerman pulled his gun and fired one shot at close range into Martin’s chest. “You got me,” the teenager said, falling backward.

“What’s your problem, homie?” – seriously? Are you sure he didn’t say, “YOU GON’ DIE, CRACKA!!”

“You got me.”  Really?  Are you sure he didn’t say, “Game over, man! Game over!”

It’s ridiculous.***

Somebody better arrest Zimmerman’s ass. Today.

***If you, like I, need to laugh to keep from stabbing, may I suggest #shitzimmermansays?

 

[cross-posted at ABLC]

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156 replies
  1. 1
    Mnemosyne says:

    I really hope Dan Riehl doesn’t have kids, because apparently he thinks that if a kid realizes that s/he is being followed by a strange man in a car and the man gets out of that car to chase them, they should just surrender and go along meekly because maybe the guy is a self-appointed Neighborhood Watch commander and not, you know, a child molester like you would assume if someone was following a kid around.

    (Edited for clarity)

  2. 2
    Jeff Spender says:

    I’ve been getting into arguments with people I once respected about this.

    I literally had to beat someone over the head with ten independent news links before they even thought about accepting the premise the Trayvon Martin’s mother was trademarking those popular slogans as a way to gain control of the naked profiteering off of the tragedy and put the money to some kind of charity.

    It’s sickening. And, frankly, I don’t know how much longer I can keep it up. There is so much disinformation floating around, and people, like always, are so ready to believe any “fact” without looking into it and verifying it for themselves.

  3. 3
    WJS says:

    Uh, and where is Trayvon’s cell phone? Where did it go? Has anyone answered that question yet?

    There is a major coverup going on, and the trail is going colder by the minute. Someone needs to start talking to the officers on the scene and to the investigators and to the people who showed up and shut down the investigation.

  4. 4
    JoyceH says:

    I’d like to know what’s the deal with this Joe Oliver person. He said on Lawrence O’Donnell that he QUIT HIS JOB in order to devote himself full time to defending Zimmerman. Who can afford to do that? How many people could quit their jobs to become a full time defender of a close and beloved family member, much less some co-worker who you sorta knew?

  5. 5
    Satanicpanic says:

    This just shows how far some racists people will go to not accept that what Zimmerman did was murder and what the police did was a racially motivated coverup.

  6. 6
    Satanicpanic says:

    @JoyceH: Someone applying for a job at FOX.

  7. 7
    Comrade Mary says:

    “Play it, Dana. Play it right now!”

    Anyway, as you can see throughout, especially at the 6 minute mark onward, Taafe was the only white man there and should have been left in charge to direct the entire interview. Why wouldn’t Nancy Grace let the white man have his say?

  8. 8
    West of the Cascades says:

    Zimmerman will be arrested within a week – only question is whether it will be local, state or federal authorities taking him into custody. I hope a lot of other people go to jail or lose their jobs over this atrocity of an “investigation.” I fear that’s too much to hope for.

    Also, what was with ABC News superimposing its red and black “exclusive” tab directly over the portion of the surveillance video where Zimmerman’s head was most of the time?? Do they not understand that is EXACTLY where people would be focusing their eyes (or maybe they do, and the “ABC News Exclusive” is more important than the actual subject of the video??)

  9. 9
    Comrade Mary says:

    (Hey — the paragraph breaks are back!

    Thanks, web goddesses!)

  10. 10
    dmsilev says:

    “You got me.” Really? Are you sure he didn’t say, “Game over, man! Game over!”

    One of the commenters at Ta-Nehisi’s blog suggested that Martin’s next words were “I just got one thing t’ ask you. Bury me with my hoodie on.”

  11. 11
    Mattminus says:

    @JoyceH:

    Oliver was a former news anchor according to TP. Then he was working at the same company as a wanna be mall cop. My guess is that he see’s this as a chance to get back on TV, and possibly even a spot as “even the black Joe Oliver…”

  12. 12
    beltane says:

    @Jeff Spender:

    people, like always, are so ready to believe any “fact” without looking into it and verifying it for themselves

    I think we have to be honest with ourselves and acknowledge that these people are not so ready to believe any “fact” as they are eager to seek a version of events that fit their prejudices.

  13. 13
    Tavism says:

    I am 230 lbs. My wife is 130 lbs. We live in a very old brownstone where the kitchen and bath are both very small. When we bump into each other while cooking or getting ready for bed, my wife goes flying.

    I bring this up because I understand Zimmerman was 240 lbs. and Martin 140 lbs. There was never any logically possible way for Martin to physically dominate Zimmerman.

  14. 14
    Seebach says:

    I also am curious about how this Oliver guy is able to just quit his job to be a defender. And I’ve hard neither he nor his lawyer have seen Zimmerman in over a month.

    Who’s paying all of these people? What’s so worth covering up? What makes this dumb idiot Zimmerman so deserving of protection?

  15. 15
    lgerard says:

    No one has answered my 2 basic questions

    1. If the police had his cell phone, why didn’t they notify his parents that night?

    2. If the police had his cell phone, why was he sent to the morgue as “John Doe”?

    It simply makes no sense

  16. 16
    pragmatism says:

    KERNERS ARE GO REPEAT KERNERS ARE GO

  17. 17
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    The unarmed teenager hit Zimmerman, knocked him to the ground, pinned him down and told him to “shut the [expletive] up.”

    I heard a brief clip of Zimmerman’s father–couldn’t listen to more– saying that his 250 pound son was struggling to get up off the ground, but the 140 pound Trayvon had him pinned to the ground. I suppose there is some kind of magic-bullet quality theory where Trayvon could have gotten in a lucky punch that knocked GZ to the ground, if GZ were in mid-step or something, but how does 140 pounds ‘pin down’ 250 pounds?

    Also, too, I’m sure everybody’s heard that former Judge Zimmerman was shocked at Obama’s hateful rhetoric? I’m gonna crawl out on a limb and guess that Hizzoner’s TeeVees are all set to Fox, and irresponsibly speculate that a 28 year old who uses the word “c–ns” probably didn’t learn that word on the playground.

  18. 18
    Jeff Spender says:

    @beltane:

    I think we have to be honest with ourselves and acknowledge that these people are not so ready to believe any “fact” as they are eager to seek a version of events that fit their prejudices.

    I don’t find this to be the case all of the time. I know people who have preconceived notions of the world and find “facts” that fit their narratives. Those people I don’t engage with because they’re hopeless and it’s just an exercise in masochism.

    However, most of the people I’m talking about are just naive and don’t really pay attention. They’re getting information from the most convenient sources without checking to see if they’re reliable.

    That, I think, is one of the biggest problems we have in this country.

  19. 19
    shortstop says:

    @Satanicpanic: Apart from the fact that this kid lost his life needlessly and horribly unjustly, and that others will undoubtedly do so under this law, and that no one is so far paying the price of justice, this is the most depressing thing about the case. An investigation could prove Zimmerman and the Sanford police department guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt, and large swaths of Americans would still believe the kid had it coming and was the aggressor. They have a sick, sick, fucking sick need to believe those things.
    __
    I advise everyone to stay away from the comments sections at all MSM sources, lest you come as close to throwing up as I did (and yeah, I knew better, but sometimes you just want to know what you’re dealing with out there.)

  20. 20
    Sophist says:

    During the beating, Zimmerman pulled his gun and fired one shot at close range into Martin’s chest. “You got me,” the teenager said, falling backward.

    Really? I heard he said “Is this the end of Trayvon?”.

  21. 21
    Democratic Nihilist, Keeper Of Party Purity says:

    1. “They always get away”
    2. “Fucking coon”
    3. Dead black teen

    I refuse to indulge in the hagiography going on here with tapes and timelines and all the rest of that shit. I can blow that video up and prove that Zimmerman’s a reptiloid, given enough time.

    Given the fucked up state of the laws in Florida, it’s looking pretty much like Zimmerman did not commit a crime – according to the law. From where I stand it looks like cold-clooded chickenshit murder, but as I’m being reminded of with increasing frequency these days, I live in the United States, not the Confederacy.

  22. 22
    flukebucket says:

    Has anybody bothered to read Ann Coulter’s opinion of the issue?

    http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=50511

    My god she is disgusting.

  23. 23
    cleek says:

    wearing clean clothes,

    the events in this video took place four hours after the shooting.

    http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_n.....n-shooting

  24. 24
    Phoenician in a time of Romans says:

    ***If you, like I, need to laugh to keep from stabbing, may I suggest #shitzimmermansays?

    Zimmerman knew he was in trouble when Martin said “Say hello to my little friend!”. And he knew he was really in trouble after he shot Martin and a midget with a black belt rushed out screaming “Tray – NO!!!!”

    God, will someone just arrest him and get it before a court already?

  25. 25
    elmo says:

    Not for nothing, but Ta-Nehisi has been absolutely covering himself in glory with this entire thing. He has been thoughtful, reasoned, and totally, completely, 100% en fuego.

  26. 26
    Donut says:

    Those tweets from TNC are devastating. No offense intended to ABL, but I’m normally not a big fan of the Twit machine, I think it tends to dumb things down more often than not, but it is fucking great to make a sharp, quick point.

    At this point, I think just about anyone with skin a shade darker than ivory needs some god damned answers about WTF is going on with the new investigations, how extensive was/is the effort to let Zimmerman walk, and last but not least get some answers and a path to grief for not only Trayvon’s family, but basically to any and all African Americans. Think of this: outside of the larger sicual issues here, his poor family cannot rest nor properly grieve that young man’s death, and that is so wrong in every way. Indgnity on top of injustice.

    This bullshit was a lynching. There is no way to honestly dispute it, whether you like that word or not, that’s what happened, and people have the right to know why that was allowed to happen and some reasonable assurance that shit will be done to prevent it from happening again.

    This is what happens when our fine friends on the right are allowed to rhetorically run amok with no consequences and pushback, let alone write these shitty gun and ‘self-defense’ laws and lobby for them. Damn, we need to wake the fuck up on the left.

  27. 27
    pragmatism says:

    @flukebucket: thank goodness you said she’s still disgusting. if i found myself agreeing with nancy grace and ann coulter on the same day i would drop everything and wait for the sky to fall.

  28. 28
    dr. bloor says:

    Additionally, the funeral director has stated that there was no signs on Trayvon’s body that would indicate that he had been in a fight.

    I just saw this noted elsewhere. Does getting this from the funeral director mean that there was no autopsy? No postmortem photographs of the victim or photographic evidence of Zimmerman’s alleged wounds? Nothing?

    And I wonder why I’ve been wandering around the last few days with the words “tipping point” stuck in my head.

  29. 29

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Not to mention that Zimmerman would have Trayvon’s blood all over his clothes if he shot him while Trayvon was pinning him down. Anyone see any blood on his clothing in the tapes? Me neither.

  30. 30
    Jim Kakalios says:

    I banged the back of my head on a radiator once. It bled like crazy and required several stiches. There are A LOT of blood vessels back there and while it is not physically impossible to crack one’s head on concrete and induce bleeding, it is surprising.

    I assume that the police took photos of the injuries Mr. Zimmerman sustained? There would be a medical report?

  31. 31
    Mattminus says:

    During the beating, Zimmerman pulled his gun and fired one shot at close range into Martin’s chest. “I’ve seen things you people wouldn’t believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time… like tears in rain… Time to die,” the teenager said, falling backward.

  32. 32
    Jeff Spender says:

    @flukebucket:

    Has anybody bothered to read Ann Coulter’s opinion of the issue?

    My god she is disgusting.

    I do not hate myself enough to want to read whatever bile that harpy spews.

  33. 33
    Tony J says:

    Even laying aside the truly miraculous job those EMS techs apparently managed to do on Zimmerman’s ‘wounds’ (how do you make a head wound stop bleeding without stiches or a dressing? How do you wipe away the signs of a broken nose without an icepack?)
    __

    He supposedly shot a kid at close range, a kid who was supposedly crouching on top of him.
    __

    Where is the blood? Where’s Trayvon’s blood? Where’s a single speck of Zimmerman’s own blood?

    I guess the EMS techs put his nice white T-Shirt in a boil wash, followed by a spin cycle too. Now that’s what I call public service.

  34. 34
    Democratic Nihilist, Keeper Of Party Purity says:

    What makes this dumb idiot Zimmerman so deserving of protection?

    @Seebach: Now I think you’re catching on to the real issue. Word is he is likely what is known as an “informant”, and given some of the known issues in that department, I’m betting one of their “informants”, if turned, could send a LOT of cops to jail.

  35. 35
    xochi says:

    So that supposed scar on the back of his head. Apparently, dude got a severe blow to the head that happened to heal up and leave no blood, and the cops decided that, because Zimmerman has magical healing powers, they wouldn’t take him to the emergency room or anything. Occam’s Razor, people!

  36. 36
    shortstop says:

    @Sophist: I heard he said, “This punk does not feel lucky today.”

  37. 37
    Fwiffo says:

    The Zimmerman story keeps changing every five seconds. First he got out of the car to read a street sign, and was jumped while returning to the car. Then when that was obviously nonsense from his own 911 calls, he got out to confront Martin, lost sight of him, and got jumped from behind while returning to the car. Then in some versions he gets out twice.

    In some versions he’s getting beat up on the grass between houses, other’s he’s on the pavement.

    The first stories had him getting jumped from behind, now he’s getting decked in the face. There’s about a dozen different conflicting stories about the conversation before the altercation coming out of the Zimmerman camp. All conflict with the conversation Martin had on the phone.

    Now this new detail, they’re claiming Martin said something after he got shot, which is somehow not audible on the recording of him getting shot.

  38. 38
    MattR says:

    @dr. bloor: The funeral director stated that there was an autopsy, but I don’t think any details from it have been released. Yet.

    EDIT: From Nancy Grace’s site on cnn:

    Richard Kurtz of Roy Mizell and Kurtz Funeral Home in Fort Lauderdale said there appeared to be a gunshot wound in Martin’s upper chest area, but he received the body after the autopsy was completed so it was difficult to tell whether he had other injuries. He also could not determine the bullet’s entry or exit point.

  39. 39
    brent says:

    George thought he had a problem when Trayvon said “I came to chew skittles and whip honkies. And I’m all outta skittles.” #shitzimmermansays
    — Ta-Nehisi Coates (@tanehisi) March 29, 2012

    Well we know for a fact that Martin had plenty of skittles left that evening. So we know that Martin decided to savagely beat a practically defenseless Zimmerman despite being in possession many skittles that he could heartlessly devour instead. Are there no depths to the hulking monster Trayvon’s depravity?

  40. 40
    Democratic Nihilist, Keeper Of Party Purity says:

    Damn, we need to wake the fuck up on the left.

    @Donut: I’ve been waiting for most of my life for that to happen. Reagan – the only warning the left should have ever needed – didn’t do it. Bush II didn’t do it. 2010 didn’t do it.

    I no longer believe that it will.

  41. 41
    Warren Terra says:

    I think the real question here should be about the investigation: I’m glad we’re seeing this surveillance video, which appears to undercut claims that Zimmerman was severely battered, and that the funeral director is speaking out – but frankly, this shouldn’t be necessary. It’s now the anecdotal reports of some cops (and Zimmerman’s claims) versus a grainy surveillance tape from the wrong angle four hours later and the anecdotal impressions of the funeral director, who by his own admission is an experienced layman rather than an expert. But this shouldn’t be the case.

    When the cops arrived on the seen and found a dead human being, a smoking gun, and a self-confessed shooter, shouldn’t they have immediately have started treating this is a serious matter? Shouldn’t they have started photographing everything (it’s not like you pay for film and developing nowadays)? Taken the clothing into evidence in case a further investigation was necessary? Shouldn’t the autopsy performed on the young Mr. Martin officially and conclusively state the condition of his hands and other skin likely to suffer in an altercation?

    If they didn’t do all this, how can they justify not doing so? A dead human being lay rapidly cooling on the pavement – doesn’t that merit a careful approach? And if they did do all this, why haven’t we heard of it? You’d think some mention would have been made, as we all squint at mediocre security footage to try to assess the situation.

    Given that last I heard they still hadn’t interviewed Martin’s girlfriend – who by her testimony and the phone records was apparently talking to Martin within minutes of his death, including the beginning of the confrontation itself – I suspect that no evidence was in fact collected. And I suspect that whether or not Zimmerman gets off (as still seems quite possible under Florida’s Stand Your Ground law) the city could be in a terrible legal position for having failed to investigate properly.

    ETA Hey, the Edit function is now working properly.

  42. 42
    Joel says:

    Frankly, the audio is unconvincing to me. But just about everything else is.

  43. 43
    rikyrah says:

    I will repost something that someone wrote at another blog last night, and my response to them.

    From Miranda:

    Miranda
    What the Sanford PD wasn’t counting on, was that Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton are intelligent black folks that know their resources. The Martin and Fulton families are not brokedown and busted and uneducated. They weren’t going to just take it. Sanford PD thought Trayvon was just going to be another statistic, that nobody but his poor Mama would care about. Everytime I look at the photos of Trayvon with his dad, with his mom and brother on ski trips and horseback riding….I know. I know there is no way in hell Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton were going to let this go. There was no way at ALL that Trayvon’s cousins and friends were going to let this go. NO WAY. They knew they had resources to make this known. This was not some drug dealing gangbanger that got shot and its killing the right wing that they can’t turn Trayvon into that character.

    I couldn’t agree more with this remark.

    I was thinking about this tonight after dinner.

    IT KILLS THEM

    it ABSOLUTELY KILLS THEM

    that this family knew what to do. they knew who to call.

    Attorney Crump may not have won the case against the Florida Detention Center, but he changed how things were done.

    They were stunned that Black radio, Black blogs and REV. AL SHARPTON wouldn’t let this go.

    That’s why you see so much bullshyt about Rev. Al and his ‘ conflict’ in dealing with this case and being on tv.AIN’T NO CONFLICT.

    This is what Rev. AL DOES.

    They are madder than a mutha that so much of what Black folks have said over the years, in their dealing with the PO-LICE is obvious in this case.

    All the stuff that they respond to us that we’re ‘ imagining’ things’.

    They are MAD that everything we say that ROUTINELY happens with Black folks IS OBVIOUS in this case.

    And, they are MAD that an Obama Justice Department is the REASON all of this is coming to light.

  44. 44
    WhoopTDu says:

    Security camera footage released from Sanford PD. Sanford PD YouTube page.

    http://youtu.be/9WWDNbQUgm4

    Time-stamped, 6:10 mins in length.

  45. 45

    @cleek:

    I was under the impression that it was 30 minutes after the shooting. I will need to check to back up that assertion though.

  46. 46
    geg6 says:

    @Donut:

    This. A thousand times.

  47. 47
    Mnemosyne says:

    @MattR:

    The funeral director stated that there was an autopsy, but I don’t think any details from it have been released. Yet.

    IIRC, they did a drug/alcohol screening during the autopsy and that takes something like 6-8 weeks to come back from the lab. Sadly, “CSI” is science fiction and instant results don’t exist in the real world.

  48. 48
    Warren Terra says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    Well, sure, but the condition of Martin’s hands and face doesn’t require a 6-8 week lab test. Unless they just won’t release the autopsy report at all until it’s complete with all test results included.

  49. 49

    There is no time stamp on the videos, they are date stamped at 2-26 but not time stamped that I can see, though it could be my old eyes.

  50. 50
    cleek says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt:
    the time stamp on the video WhoopTDu posted are about 30 minutes after (they run from 19:52 to 19:56). but MSNBC said it was four hours after.

    frankly, i believe the timestamp.

    so, you’re probably right.

  51. 51
    Rob says:

    Zimmerman applied some of that magic ointment from Hunger Games immediately after the fight with Trayvon. QED.

  52. 52
    Comrade Mary says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt: It says 19:72 at the start — 7:52 PM. This is maybe half an hour after the shooting.

    EDIT: Weird, the time doesn’t elapse: it stays at 19:52:00 all the way through.

    EDIT2: OK, it’s at 19:54:00 when they cut to the corridor, but we never see seconds counting up at all.

    No blood on his shirt barely half an hour after the shooting. That was some magically healing broken nose.

  53. 53
    Tony J says:

    @Warren Terra:

    From what’s come out, ISTM that the homicide cop who was actually on the scene decided to bring Zimmerman in, hence the handcuffs, but at some point the DA, the Chief of Police and Zimmerman’s Judge daddy got together and decided to put the nix on any investigation and make the problem go away, hence the John Doe identification and the missing cell phone.

    Major blaring clue time. This had turned into a national issue and for half of the country Zimmerman is a racist vigilante who murdered a kid in cold blood then walked away. So where the fuck is he? Why haven’t we had the exclusive Fox News interview where Zimmerman tearfully admits to feeling really bad about having to shoot the kid, “But he was crazy, he was just hitting me and hitting me and I thought.. I’m going to die here.”

    My guess is that his father doesn’t think his boy would be able to keep up the story for ten seconds under the media spotlight.

  54. 54
    geg6 says:

    @Warren Terra:

    Shouldn’t the autopsy performed on the young Mr. Martin officially and conclusively state the condition of his hands and other skin likely to suffer in an altercation?

    From what I understand, the autopsy results have not been released. I could be wrong, but I have not heard any reporting that they have.

  55. 55
    Donut says:

    @rikyrah:

    Fuck, yes, all of that is on point. I’m so thankful that Trayvon’s family went to a legal team that seems to be acting in the family’s best interests.
    I’m still stuck on the fact that they can’t grieve the loss of their boy. They have no way to move past this horrible event. I think it would consume me to the point of madness, if I were his parent. To me, this is the worst of the injustices they have suffered in the wake of the shooting.. Every place that a reasonably normal American would turn to for closure and justice was closed off to them, before Rev. Al and others started publicizing the case. I feel like crying just about every time I see either of his parents talking about this, and they bear not only the personal issue , but the larger social and cultural issues. I am not the praying type but I hope they can maintain a reserve of strength and get whatever justice they can for their son and their family. The country needs this to go well for that family.

  56. 56

    @cleek: @Comrade Mary:

    Thank you both, so there was no time for him to have been cleaned up and change clothes. So my question remains, if the shooting happened as Zimmerman said it did why is he not covered in Trayvon’s blood?

  57. 57
    Warren Terra says:

    @cleek:
    30 minutes would seem to be just on the edge of the physically possible. The claim is that cops were at the scene within five minutes, and Zimmerman was interviewed and treated by paramedics at the scene. All this could conceivably happen and permit him to be in a parking garage under the police station 30 minutes later, but it’s tight.
    On the other hand, four hours seems too long, and all the indicators are that no real investigation of the scene was performed, so maybe thirty minutes it is.

  58. 58
    gwangung says:

    @Tony J: If ANY of the stuff reportedly said by Zimmerman about Martin is anywhere close to true, then, yeah….ten seconds. 15 seconds, being charitable.

  59. 59
    Mike E says:

    File Zimmerman apologists under the same banner as those who supported that cop pepper-spraying those seated nonviolent protesters, pointblank in their faces . Clearly they deserved it because, hippie arglebargle!

  60. 60
    geg6 says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt:

    if the shooting happened as Zimmerman said it did why is he not covered in Trayvon’s blood?

    Or his own, for that matter. Assuming that he really was beaten up by Trayvon as his defenders insist.

  61. 61
    Seebach says:

    But here’s the thing: Zimmerman previously assaulted a cop. I thought cops were sacrosanct? How come he doesn’t get a “dirty Mexican should go back to Mexico” attack from the right? I see the Breitbart sites are trying to stop the media from describing Zimmerman as “white” for some reason. Fomenting race war, I guess?

  62. 62
    brent says:

    @Tony J:

    I suppose its possible but I would think, even in the context of the highly unlikely possibility that George Zimmerman didn’t do anything wrong, he is being properly advised by his lawyers and his father that making public statements will not help his legal situation and is much more likely to hurt. He doesn’t need the PR. He doesn’t have a valuable reputation to protect. Whatever happened out on that street, his best bet to avoid further jeopardy is to keep his mouth shut. Fo sho.

  63. 63
    kc says:

    Not gonna watch Nancy Grace. But those TNC tweets cracked me up.

    (Laughing IS better than stabbing, as you say)

  64. 64
    WJS says:

    @Tony J: He sounded very simpleminded on the 911 call. And therein might lie the problem–he has a history of failure and a history of violence. He has a track record that demonstrates that he cannot accomplish much and cannot control his temper. No wonder they’ve hidden him away.

  65. 65
    kc says:

    I do think it is possible that someone could be in a frightening physical altercation and still escape as visually unscathed as Zimmerman appears to be in that video footage. But that video does make it pretty hard to believe that Zimmerman got his head repeatedly pounded into the pavement, as he told the cops.

  66. 66
    Arm The Homeless says:

    I don’t think I understand where the fact that the parents didn’t know where their son was, the parents and the media knew that night. Are there claims that no one knew who this kid was?

    I don’t understand the dissonance, can someone explain for me, please?

  67. 67
    Comrade Mary says:

    You know what? I think that time-stamped video is bogus.

    I don’t think it’s from the City of Stanford at all. The channel name is “Cityof Stanford”, the join date is today, there’s a handful of videos from the Martin case only and the tagging looks suspicious.

    Plus, the time doesn’t count up.

  68. 68
    jaime says:

    “Effin Cold?” Really?

    A laughable mishearing insulting to all people, not just the blah ones.

  69. 69
    Donut says:

    Ugh, I just jumped on my laptop, and the fucking banner ad at the top of the thread is now for “gunbroker.com” Fuck me.

  70. 70
    WhoopTDu says:

    @Comrade Mary:

    It says “Cityof Sanford” when I look at it.

    If, it is/was bogus how could they show all of this footage of him being walked around the police station?

  71. 71
    Frank says:

    Zimmermans friend keeps repeating that Zimmermans injuries are consistent with a self-defense claim. No, dipshit, they are consistent with someone that has been in a fight. Now it turns out these “injuries” are a fabrication.

  72. 72
    Ivan Ivanovich Renko says:

    When the cops arrived on the seen and found a dead human being, a smoking gun, and a self-confessed shooter, shouldn’t they have immediately have started treating this is a serious matter?

    That’s the crux of the matter, ain’t it? As far as the Sanford PD and prosecutor are concerned, a black kid isn’t fully human. As far as the white Right are concerned, a black person isn’t fully human.

    They treated Zimmerman like he shot a wild animal, because that’s what they want to think about black people in general, and there’s nothing we can do that would change their minds.

  73. 73
    Nom de Plume says:

    “You got me.”

    Actually, Zimmerman cried out “Speak, hands, for me!”, and then Martin gasped “Then fall Trayvon!”. Curtain.

  74. 74
    Mike Lamb says:

    I “get” why Sanford PD want to defend Zimmerman–racism, informant, whatever. There’s a motive.

    I don’t get the national right wing hacks wanting to defend this. It’s counterproductive. You don’t want Zimmerman/Martin being the poster-boys for “stand your ground.” This is how movements build to completely change policy. It makes far more sense to argue that Zimmerman was outside the bounds of the statute, that the statute wasn’t intended for this, etc. It’s stupid to continue to try to justify what happened.

  75. 75
    gaz says:

    So presumably if Zimmerman skates, we can assume, the Petty Hate Machine/GOP skipped yelling N—–r and just skipped to the legal lynching – (aided and abetted by the wingnut wurlitzer and the “liberal” media)

  76. 76
    Catsy says:

    @xochi:

    So that supposed scar on the back of his head. Apparently, dude got a severe blow to the head that happened to heal up and leave no blood, and the cops decided that, because Zimmerman has magical healing powers, they wouldn’t take him to the emergency room or anything. Occam’s Razor, people!

    Not only that, but let’s assume–just assume for a moment–that the notion that this dark line is a wound passes the laugh test. Let’s just for a moment evaluate it seriously.

    The dark line on the back of his head is completely straight, and extends from the back nearly up to the top of his head. All of the skin around it looks fine–isn’t obviously abraded, swollen, or anything like that.

    If this is a wound, it did not come from having his head slammed back into the concrete. You don’t get a wound on the top of your head from hitting the concrete on your back that way, and you certainly don’t get a nice straight wound extending all the way down with no other injuries surrounding it, as if someone had sliced you with a knife. When you get your head slammed repeatedly against the concrete, you get dozens of contusions, punctures and abrasions from the rough, irregular surface. It would be gut-wrenchingly, horribly obvious if that had happened, and that’s not even getting into the likelihood of a concussion.

    This isn’t countertop inspection or armchair kerning analysis, this is being able to use one’s fucking eyes and brain.

    It’s a moot point anyway. If you actually watch the entire video carefully, you’ll notice that at no other point in the video is there a dark mark like this. There’s nothing that indicates any kind of swelling or laceration, and with all the angles you see him from an injury like that would be impossible to miss, even if it was just swelling and no skin was broken. And in context, it is really obvious that it’s some kind of reflection or other trick of the light on the shiny skin of his head.

  77. 77
    geg6 says:

    @Comrade Mary:

    The cops have verified that it is their video from that night. Can’t remember where I saw that online just a couple of hours ago, but I know I did.

  78. 78
    Tony J says:

    @gwangung:

    If ANY of the stuff reportedly said by Zimmerman about Martin is anywhere close to true, then, yeah….ten seconds. 15 seconds, being charitable.

    I’ll be even more charitable. Given that a sympathetic Zimmerman interview would be – very – useful to the push-back effort, it’s possible that he himself is such a wreck that the people who covered up for him just don’t trust him to say what they need him to say.

    He murdered a kid. He may well have been desperate to live out the big man fantasy and finally impress his daddy, but once he’d done it in real life… at the end of the day he knows that he fucked up and he murdered a kid.

    Charitably, that might be a problem for him.

    And yeah, I’m being – very – charitable.

  79. 79
    Comrade Mary says:

    @WhoopTDu: Yes, there is a typo in the city name, and the account was just created today.

    Someone has some video, but the timestamp at the bottom doesn’t operate like any timestamp I’ve ever seen. It looks like a set of static images applied at various parts of the video. I don’t think this was put up officially by the City of Stanford. This looks more like an amateur marking up of genuine video.

  80. 80
    Chris says:

    @Jeff Spender:

    I know what you mean. This thing’s brought out the most aggressively racist shit I’ve ever seen on facebook.

    As with Obama reacting to the way Congress and the media treats him… I’ve mostly been amazed by how much self-control the black people I know on facebook have shown in these discussions, even when confronted with a complete raving fucking lunatic of a white conservative.

  81. 81
    Comrade Mary says:

    @geg6: Have they confirmed the time-stamp on today’s video? Did you see them confirm this video or the ABC video? Have they confirmed that “Cityof Stanford” is their channel that they just created today with three other Martin-related videos?

    I don’t doubt that this is real video, but I do doubt the provenance of the channel and the wonky time-stamp. This has not yet convinced me that this was taken half an hour after the shooting instead of the 4 hours MSNBC is reporting.

  82. 82
    vonnie says:

    EXFUCKINGXACTLLY!!! This pervert ass MF may be a gay pedophile for all we know… But no one is expressing the obvious story. This person is a stalking predator period…

  83. 83
    Fwiffo says:

    Apparently Martin climbed on top of Zimmerman, shouted “Made it, Ma! Top of the world!” and then was killed in a giant fiery explosion.

  84. 84
    WhoopTDu says:

    @Comrade Mary:

    The city in question is the City of Sanford. Not Stanford.

  85. 85
    geg6 says:

    @Comrade Mary:

    The only video I saw was the ABC video, which had been edited. The Sanford police confirmed that it was their video of that evening. I would assume ABC has the entire video and you could match that up with the one you say is wonky.

  86. 86
    Comrade Mary says:

    Gah — Stanford, Sanford. I’m escaping here between bouts of CSS poisoning. But it’s the “Cityof” versus “City of” in the name, plus the newness of the channel, that make me doubt this is the real City of SANFORD YouTube channel.

  87. 87
    jncc says:

    Gawker’s reporting that Martin’s e-mail and social media accounts have been hacked.

  88. 88
    Maus says:

    Trayvon needs better friends than That Ghoul Nancy Grace. She clings on to suffering to promote herself, not justice.

  89. 89
    Craig says:

    @Comrade Mary: Whoever said it was? Who cares?

  90. 90
    Tony J says:

    @brent:

    Respectfully disagree, to an extent. Zimmerman really does need the PR boost of a Right-friendly interview where he can get ‘his side of the story’ out there and hopefully change the thrust of the Media narrative. A big chunk of your country thinks he’s a racist murderer, and so far all of the ‘evidence’ being thrown out on his behalf just keeps on getting chopped off at the knees a few days later.

    Yeah, he doesn’t have much of a reputation to defend, but the people who orchestrated the post-murder cover-up do, and without the ‘real victim’ front and centre giving his story they’re left holding the can. How long before the Media narrative shifts from “What happened at the scene” to “What happened afterwards, and was there a cover-up?”

  91. 91
    pk says:

    I don’t get why so many people are invested in Zimmermann’s version of events being true? Why spend so much energy and effort in defending a guy who shot an unarmed child? Even in the best case scenario Zimmermann was in the wrong. He was clearly told not to follow Treyvon, but did so anyway and killed him. You’d think the natural instinct would be to side with the victim. Why go all out to defend the (most likely criminal)? Racism cannot be the only explanation.

  92. 92
    scarshapedstar says:

    I heard he shouted “WHO LET THE DOGS OUT!” because that’s a big hit by one of those ‘rap bands’.

  93. 93
    WhoopTDu says:

    from MSNBC:

    A spokeswoman for State Attorney Angela Corey said Thursday that the Sanford police surveillance video of George Zimmerman was not authorized to be released.
    Jackelyn Bernard, spokeswoman for Corey, appointed special prosecutor int the Trayvon Martin shooting death investigation, said the video “should not have been released.”
    Bernard wouldn’t say if Corey’s office was seeking to stop the release of the video Thursday or if Sanford officials discussed the release of the video with them, but by midday Thursday, the city of Sanford had posted the entire video on its YouTube channel.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46894226#.T3TA0THxq8A

    Also, too:

    http://www.news4jax.com/news/P.....index.html

  94. 94
    Ben Cisco says:

    I’m not a fan of Nancy Grace

    She finally weighed in, huh? How long did THAT take?

  95. 95
    geg6 says:

    @Tony J:

    How long before the Media narrative shifts from “What happened at the scene” to “What happened afterwards, and was there a cover-up?”

    Too late. It’s already out there. When Charlie Rose is questioning the veracity of the cops, as a cop or the prosecutor down there, you have to know you’ve already lost the narrative. There is no more conventional wisdom than Charlie Rose’s.

  96. 96
    Mike E says:

    @Ben Cisco:

    How long did THAT take?

    Blind squirrel is a season late; broken clock, nearly 12 hours.

  97. 97
    Roger Moore says:

    @Warren Terra:

    The claim is that cops were at the scene within five minutes, and Zimmerman was interviewed and treated by paramedics at the scene. All this could conceivably happen and permit him to be in a parking garage under the police station 30 minutes later, but it’s tight.

    It’s definitely possible if the paramedic treatment and interview were both perfunctory- which would be the case if he were basically uninjured and the evidence made it look like a murder. In that case, I’d expect the cops to cuff him and take him back to the station ASAP so they could book him and start giving him a thorough interview.

  98. 98
    geg6 says:

    @pk:

    You’ve never been a young black man, have you? There is not a kid of color on my campus who hasn’t said, in the last few days, that they could easily see this happening to them based on their own experiences with cops and, sadly, white people in general. Because cops and white people in general are often terribly invested in not looking bad in public.

  99. 99
    catclub says:

    @Rob: always important to have a good cut man in your corner. It worked for Rocky.

  100. 100
    Quaker in a Basement says:

    Hunh. No mention of Martin shouting “DY NO MITE!” or “Whatchoo talkin’ bout, George Zimmerman?”

    Highly suspect.

  101. 101
    Seebach says:

    @pk: Just world bias. It’s easier to live if you just assume the kid had it coming to him. If cruel things happen, then something terrible might happen to you, as well.

  102. 102
    Comrade Mary says:

    I found the Sanford official site and they do have a Trayvon Martin investigation page which includes a link to this video, so as weird as it appears, it’s legit and my suspicions were unfounded.

    (Why am I not totally surprised that they can’t get proper time-stamps working?)

    EDIT: Oh, fucking hell — frames? Really? In this century?

    The investigation page direct link is here.

  103. 103
    Tony J says:

    @WJS:

    He did, or at least ‘not the sharpest tool in the box’. Daddy issues and a history of violence do not a stable person make.

  104. 104
    Comrade Mary says:

    @WhoopTDu: I saw that MSNBC page, which was sloppily written, but the city’s website backed it up clearly, as I mention above.

  105. 105
    Julia Grey says:

    How long before the Media narrative shifts from “What happened at the scene” to “What happened afterwards, and was there a cover-up?”

    Well, the Media may not have shifted its focus yet, but with the DOJ announcement that they’ll be investigating the entire Sanford Police Department as a result of this, the force of Law certainly has.

    We just need to be patient. As bogus as Zimmerman’s story is, there’s no way he doesn’t get arrested and tried, and then we’ll see the evidence and have a much, much better idea not only of what went on out on that street, but what happened inside that police station after that relaxed little perp walk.

    I just point out over and over that if Zimmerman was beat up as much as he said he was, there was no way the EMTs wouldn’t have instantly taken him to an ER for a head CT and some kind of patching up on his nose/face. There’s no fooling around with head injuries. Closed head trauma can kill people in a matter of hours afterward. Remember Natasha Richardson? Paramedics TRANSPORT people who have hit their heads on concrete, especially repeatedly. I mean, hello? Subdural hematoma?

  106. 106

    Does Zimmerman have any friends who aren’t a generation older than him?

  107. 107
    Emma says:

    @Comrade Mary: From what I understand the video was not released officially. It was leaked by someone from inside either the police department or the mayor’s office.

  108. 108
    Tony J says:

    @geg6:

    There you go then. There’s a big gaping hole in the push-back shaped like the only person other than Trayvon to have witnessed the shooting, and that hole could only be filled in by BS for so long.

  109. 109
    Comrade Mary says:

    @Emma: See my link above: the first release was leaked, but the latest video is sloppy but authentic. Go here and follow the link.

  110. 110
    geg6 says:

    That last comment didn’t come out right. It’s not surprising that white people and cops are invested in making Trayvon the aggressor and not the victim. Incidents like this happen every single day in every city in America and most of America ignores it because, well…black youth = thug. But in this case, that equation wasn’t quite right. So now they have to double down and make sure the narrative that every young black man must be up to no good is not ruined forever or there will be hell to pay. Literally.

  111. 111
    Joel says:

    @WhoopTDu: Probably because the poster stole the footage from one of the news agencies.

  112. 112
    Tony J says:

    @Julia Grey:

    Point. At with the Feds involved, those EMTs are going to have to give sworn statements about what work they actually did have to do on Zimmerman.

    Countdown to “Nobody ever said Zimmerman was bleeding, just that he was being attacked and in fear of his life.” starts in 3..2..1..

  113. 113
    pk says:

    @geg6:
    I totally get it from a black man’s point of view. I get that cops would be indifferent or actively hostile because of race, and there is something more sinister going on here (probably to do with Zimmermann’s father). My point is to do with the right wingers, and just a whole lot of commentators on different sites. Why so much energy in defending the indefensible? I know right wingers are stupidly evil, but where is the upside in demonizing the victim and championing the perpetrator.

  114. 114
    D. Mason says:

    Fuck Zimmerman for a lot of reasons. Now I can add making me agree with Nancy Grace to the list.

  115. 115
    MJ says:

    Seeing Nancy Grace get into this reminds me that Robert Zimmerman (retired magistrate judge)is doing the same behind the scenes influence peddling for George that Joran van der Sloot’s father (an Aruban judicial official)ran on his behalf in the Natalee Holloway case.

  116. 116
    Birthmarker says:

    Maybe the Karl Roves of the world see it a a way to make some political hay? Maybe shoot some film of angry blacks marching, to be looped endlessly for months? To implant the idea of, If we just didn’t have this black president, we wouldn’t be having this unrest?

    Does anyone else think the New Black Panthers are an invention of Karl Rove?

  117. 117
    Chris says:

    The idea that George can’t be racist because he’s Hispanic (half Peruvian) is ridiculous.

    I’m married to a (white) Peruvian and have spent a lot of time in Peru. It is an ENCREDIBLY racist country and skin color plays a HUGE factor in social status.

    The vast majority of people in Peru are brown skinned of indigenous descent. But there is the white minority of mostly Spanish descent (and some of German descent who coincidentally just happened to start arriving towards the end of WWII). There are also many Asian Peruvians (a former president was Japanese Hispanic) and Black Peruvians and everything in between. The white Peruvians hold the majority of wealth and power and VERY much self identify as “white”. In a society where the racial ‘minority’ holds the power, race is a sensitive issue. White Peruvians tend to distrust people of color by habit – they feel their social and economic status is threatened. George Zimmerman would be considered white in Peru.

    My husband’s family would tease one of their sisters who happened to be slightly darker skinned and say she looked like the maid in family photos.

    Although the vast majority of the people are people of color, advertising almost exclusively features white models and actors.

    Rightwingers only expose their ignorance and hatred everytime they open their mouths.

  118. 118
    Birthmarker says:

    @MJ: I thought this too. I mainly thought that the Sanford police thought they could just sweep this under the rug and they would never hear another word about it.

    Hats off to Nancy Grace for taking the side of the victim in this.

    Does anyone else think Zimmerman almost looks like he just showered and changed clothes? The man looks totally pristine.

  119. 119
    BubbaDave says:

    @Donut:

    At this point, I think just about anyone with skin a shade darker than ivory needs some god damned answers

    I’m so pale I’m damn near albino– but I’m a human being, and that means I need some God-damned answers too. Justice matters; rights matter. If justice is a privilege that Trayvon and his family can be denied, than it can be denied to me or to you. So even leaving humanity out of it entirely, naked self-interest would make me demand answers.

  120. 120
    gene108 says:

    On the 140 lb teenager versus 240 lb 28 year old. I think the fact that gets overlooked is Zimmerman’s only 5’9″ tall.

    If Zimmerman’s fat and probably out of shape, I can see a tall, lanky, teenager beating him in a fist fight.

    Being a fat man, myself, I can honestly say a reasonably in shape 140 lb teenager could beat the crap out of me.

    Moral of the story is you can’t judge the ability of fat folks to fight, based solely on weight.

  121. 121
    Arm The Homeless says:

    @Birthmarker: That’s what I am asking. If we assume that the time-stamp is correct and the video is less than 40-minutes from the time of the shooting there is no way in any estimation that he could have taken a shower.

    He could have conceivably changed his clothes, but one would assume that the cops should have taken that as evidence. I didn’t notice a gun in any of the officer’s hands, which says that the evidence was dropped off before this footage, or they are in the trunk to be retrieved later.

    It all stinks, from ass to elbows.

  122. 122
    jncc says:

    Shhhh, gene you can’t interject any nuance into this discussion.

    I especially liked the post earlier today talking about how Zimmerman had “100 pounds of muscle” on Martin.

    I guess the facts of this case are just not disturbing enough and people need to put some delicious icing on the cake.

  123. 123
    Birthmarker says:

    @Arm The Homeless: I wonder if he showered before he went out on his evening “patrol.” I don’t believe anything happened b/t him and Trayvon, other than possibly a shove on the part of Trayvon to give himself a moment to escape. (Or Zimmerman could have shoved Martin, then shot him.) I would guess he shot Trayvon from a distance, based on his appearance.

    Of course this is just my opinion based on the inadequate official info we have.

    As a parent, I just think the parents deserve to know what really happened to their son.

  124. 124
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Tony J:

    I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re right. The fantasy that these kind of guys build up in their heads about what it would be like to be a hero isn’t what it’s really like when the “burglar” who just died on the sidewalk in front of you turns out to be a 17-year-old kid out for a walk to the store.

    Killing people is hard. It’s not like a movie. And the shock of it not being like a movie could very well break someone who was unstable to begin with.

  125. 125
    gocart mozart says:

    Dan Reihl’s face appears to support the view that he is a goat fucker, certainly enough for speculation, making any claim put forward that he is not extremely dubious, if not flat-out wrong.

  126. 126
    dms says:

    @pk: Hello???? That’s what they do…it’s what they’ve done all of there lives.

    And they get away with it. Max Cleland, anyone?

  127. 127
    Catsy says:

    @gene108: All of this is true.

    And all of it is one hundred percent irrelevant to the actual facts of the case, taken in context. Zimmerman is not a fat, flabby man. He’s a big, solid dude who would be intimidating as hell to a lanky teenager who isn’t any kind of hardened fighter or trained martial artist.

  128. 128
    Svensker says:

    @pk:

    I know right wingers are stupidly evil, but where is the upside in demonizing the victim and championing the perpetrator.

    Partly racial tribalism — young black kid is NOT in the tribe – and partly Guns=Good if they’re being used by not-blacks against blacks. Especially under a Vigilante=Good law.

    Siding with the victim means having to examine whether a young black male can be “innocent” and whether our society should allow guns to be used so carelessly. Sean Hannity doesn’t want to think about either of those things.

  129. 129
    Some Loser says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    For some anyway. For others, killing is easy. Some people quite like it.

  130. 130
    Quarks says:

    As a central Florida resident, the only thing I will say in defense of Zimmerman’s friend (not Zimmerman) is that after you’ve lived here for awhile, 62 degrees IS cold. In fact I am guessing that was the main reason Trayvon Martin was wearing a hoodie in the first place. He was from Miami, so he was REALLY freezing.

    I’ll also add that in my opinion — and only in my opinion — the video image doesn’t tell us that much about Zimmerman’s condition/bruising, since the image isn’t great and sometimes bruises show up the next day. What’s far more telling, I think, is that by everyone’s account, no one — Zimmerman, cops or paramedics — thought Zimmerman was injured enough to be taken to an ER, which definitely makes the claims of head injuries, wherever they were (top or back of the head), suspect, and makes me question the rest of Zimmerman’s various stories.

    And I’ll just add that none of Zimmerman’s defenders — friends or relatives — are doing the guy any favor here. The more they talk, the less inclined I am to believe them — and if this does go to trial and they can’t get a change in venue, I’m a potential juror. They really should shut up.

  131. 131
    rea says:

    You can see from the video that Zimmerman had a shaved head with a 5 o’clock shadow. Whatever Riehl did to “enhance” that still from the video, it made the 5 o’clock shadow a lot more prominent. The so-called wound is the same color as Zimmerman’s enhanced 5 o’clock shadow. It’s hard to shave the back of your head evenly. Likely, what Riehl found was simply a slight unevenness in Zimmerman’s shaving. That would also be consistent with the shape and direction of the alleged wound.

  132. 132
    MJ says:

    @Birthmarker: he Karl Rove New Black Panther link did cross my mind. (Porky’s got to find some way to spend all that 100’s of millions in Koch cash that he’s been sitting on.)

  133. 133
    rea says:

    @gene108: Zimmerman was clearly fat and out of shape in the ’05 mugshot–but the current video shows him looking like he’s been working out.

  134. 134
    jncc says:

    @rea

    I just watched the video again and you’re right, he has trimmed down.

    The interesting thing to me is that so many people were talking about what a big, tough, muscular guy Zimmerman was _before_ the video was released, when the only photos out there – that I’d seen anyway- showed a tub of lard.

  135. 135
    brent says:

    @gene108:

    If Zimmerman’s fat and probably out of shape, I can see a tall, lanky, teenager beating him in a fist fight.

    But Zimmerman isn’t claiming a fist fight. He’s claiming that this much lighter person pinned him down and overpowered him to the extent where he could slam his head to the ground. Zimmerman is really not that fat but even if he was, this would be an extremely unlikely scenario in that instance. It would be unlikely if the weight disparity was only half that. If Trayvon was some sort of trained wrestler or martial artist, maybe. But in a typical physical struggle between a small guy and big guy, big guy always wins.

  136. 136
    nellcote says:

    @pk:

    Why so much energy in defending the indefensible?

    Prez Obama was sympathetic. They must always be on the opposite side of any issue.

  137. 137
    jncc says:

    @brent

    From the stories I have seen, I believe Zimmerman claimed that Martin clocked him with one punch and that Zimmerman went down and Martin then got on top of him. Whether or not even that is believable is another question.

  138. 138
    shortstop says:

    It really doesn’t matter if Zimmerman had a shower and a change. His defenders, including this idiot talking to Grace, are now doubling down on their insistence that Martin broke Zimmerman’s nose. As several people in this thread have pointed out, a broken nose bleeds like hell, and blood can be washed off once it stops spurting–but I will add that a broken schnoz and the whole area around it stay massively swollen for hours. The police video shows a man with a not even remotely swollen face.

  139. 139
    rikyrah says:

    @Ivan Ivanovich Renko:

    That’s the crux of the matter, ain’t it? As far as the Sanford PD and prosecutor are concerned, a black kid isn’t fully human. As far as the white Right are concerned, a black person isn’t fully human.

    They treated Zimmerman like he shot a wild animal, because that’s what they want to think about black people in general, and there’s nothing we can do that would change their minds.

    this is it.

    tell it.

  140. 140
    brent says:

    From the stories I have seen, I believe Zimmerman claimed that Martin clocked him with one punch and that Zimmerman went down and Martin then got on top of him.

    Right. He is saying he got sucker punched. I am not dismissing that but I was pointing out that, according to Zimmerman, this was not a fist fight where Trayvon was using his reach and a superior left jab. Ultimately, he is saying that Trayvon was physically dominating him. A man with 100 lbs on his opponent who is oriented enough to take out his gun and fire, doesn’t get physically dominated. I have fought some myself and seen a lot of fights between people in different weight classes from the amateur to the highly trained. Even if the difference is like 15 lbs, it is a huge disadvantage for the smaller man to get too close. A big man, even one who is out of shape, can pretty much send a small man flying without too much effort and most definitely if he feels is fighting for his life.

  141. 141
    VividBlueDotty says:

    @Arm The Homeless: There is some question about when the parents were notified, but it was definitely not that night. The article you reference has been updated several times, and nothing in the original story indicates that they knew who Trayvon was or that his parents were immediately notified.

    However, if you are confused about this and other matters, it might be due to your choice of news source.

    This quote says it all

    On Monday afternoon, a FOX 35 News crew met with Tracy Martin who said the victim in the shooting is her 17-year-old son, Trayvon, who was visiting from Miami.

    If the news crew really did meet with Tracy Martin, they would know Trayvon is not HER son. Tracy Martin is Trayvon’s FATHER.

  142. 142
    jncc says:

    @brent – I think you’re generally right. The only circumstances I can think where Z might be telling the truth are 1) TM was a highly skilled fighter [no evidence of that], 2) TM got very luck with a punch that put GZ on the deck [also unlikely b/c even if he connected, he doesn’t look like he had the frame to generate that sort of power) or 3) TM got a good punch in and GZ went fetal because he’s such a wussy (maybe the most likely).

    It will be really interesting to see what the real eyewitness testimony is. Given the 911 tape, someone was screaming “help” for several seconds. If that’s GZ on the ground screaming while getting pummeled, then he can probably put together some kind of self-defense claim, regardless of how he ended up there (not that it’s right, mind you.) If the person screaming help was TM, then GZ is in very deep doo doo.

  143. 143
    cckids says:

    @Donut:

    I’m still stuck on the fact that they can’t grieve the loss of their boy. They have no way to move past this horrible event. I think it would consume me to the point of madness, if I were his parent

    This. I’ve got a 19 and a 17-year old, and it would kill me. To me, it would be bad enough if this had been treated “normally”; Zimmerman was arrested, evidence was taken, etc, and he got off at trial under this asinine “stand your ground” bullshit law.

    But to have the police/DA, ??? whoever, just decide that your child isn’t worth it & they can’t be bothered to even pretend to work toward justice? Devastating. Heartbreaking. I think that is the tipping point of this case that has moved it into the national psyche. The bald, bold coverup & ignoring the facts.

  144. 144
    Arm The Homeless says:

    @VividBlueDotty: The video from the story is from the monday after the shooting. I ran across this video because it’s the only one that had the actual words of the witness, “Joe”. Towards the end, it shows Trayvon’s father, and what looks like his father’s fiance.

    That’s what I am trying to figure out. When did the cops claim to know who he was, and where his kin were? The media released the name, so someone knew something. When did the cops know that something?

  145. 145
    jncc says:

    This implies that GZ was down to 170 pounds from 250: http://www.clickorlando.com/ne.....index.html

  146. 146
    Mouse-Bear says:

    @pk:

    Why go all out to defend the (most likely criminal)? Racism cannot be the only explanation.

    Yes, racism can be the only factor but here, we also have the fact that Zimmerman’s father is a Judge, with a capital J. There are still parts of the South where “My daddy’s the Judge” carries a significant amount of weight. Had that young man been white (and “not our kind”), Zimmerman might have actually been arrested but “My daddy’s the Judge” would get him some leniency. Of course, had he been white, he wouldn’t have been followed in the first place.

  147. 147
    jncc says:

    And, if I am reading the following right, the police put TM at 160 lbs (that has to just be an eyeball estimate, though, unless they got weight at morgue): http://www.scribd.com/doc/8694.....ice-Report

  148. 148
    GeneJockey says:

    @pk:

    I don’t get why so many people are invested in Zimmermann’s version of events being true? Why spend so much energy and effort in defending a guy who shot an unarmed child?

    I honestly think it was Obama’s statement that did it. Seriously. Prior to that, a lot of Wingnut commentary was “Sounds like a cop wannabe who took it too far. He was in the wrong”.

    Then Obama makes his statement, and now they have to N*gg*rize Trayvon and make him into a hoodie-wearing thug who jumped this poor guy and Got What He Deserved. Zimmerman has to be made into The Real Victim.

    It’s like every other damn thing the last 4 years – all you need to know, to understand what Conservatives believe, is to know what Obama supports. Conservatives will automatically believe the opposite.

  149. 149
    AxelFoley says:

    @jncc:

    You’re spending a lot of time it seems to defend Zimmerman. You wouldn’t be Joe Oliver, would you?

  150. 150
    jncc says:

    @Axel – yes, any statement that varies from “Zimmerman is a stone cold racist who intentionally stalked and killed Martin just because he was black” is really the same as saying that “Zimmerman is a kind churchgoer who was just trying to defend himself against a thuggish drug dealer.”

  151. 151
    Billy Rae Valentine says:

    @jncc:

    the thing about that is people who say that are just going off the reported info that was given out.

    240 – 140 = 100 pound advantage. i’m just saying that is what was reported. they’re not necessarily looking to make the story more dramatic. people are getting different info.

    to further demonstrate my point, the response from the right wing was to point out trayvon’s height as 6 foot 2 then 6 foot 3. they said he was 180 pounds. also they pointed out he is a football player (i read that he hadn’t been one for 1 or 2 years).

    now most say trayvon is 160 lbs. regardless of political affiliation or race. and now we see zimmerman doesn’t look fat at all; he looks positively svelte. so people’s perceptions are subject to the available info.

  152. 152
    Billy Rae Valentine says:

    i imagine that zimmerman will make it out cleaner than the Sanford PD. i think he’ll walk IF he even goes to trial. now the PD? they’re in a lot of trouble…

    i think arguments about how bruised up zimmerman appears are not really going anywhere. the police report does not claim a broken nose (but a bloody nose and back of head IIRC). i believe the lawyer inserted the broken part in the last couple weeks. broken noses CAN be virtually bloodless and his bruises and things might not necessarily swell up immediately.

    but ultimately i consider it mostly irrelevant. his self-defense claim means as long as he has a reasonable threat of “great bodily harm” he is justified. so he doesn’t need to be beaten up within an inch of his life, have a broken nose or anything. so none of this changes his defense. he looks pristine, yes. doesn’t go to the hospital? i get it; it seems like he wasn’t involved in a serious fight at all.

    it just means MAYBE his story is b.s. and will fall apart. that’s the key takeway, right? we think now maybe he’s totally full of it and was perhaps helped by authorities. i admit i’d like that because i think he is at fault and probably lying because he sees now there’s no witnesses. i’m only focused on what we can PROVE. this video doesn’t change much for me. funeral director? lol same thing he’s not a professional his statements raise suspicions but they don’t change much for me or prove anything.

  153. 153
    Jncc says:

    @br valentine

    I agree there is, still, a lot if incorrect info out there. I also don’t think it’s a coincidence that the most “damaging” incorrect info (foe each “side”) gets propagated the most quickly.

    Not helpful at all.

  154. 154
    jefft452 says:

    @pk:
    “I don’t get why so many people are invested in Zimmermann’s version of events being true? Why spend so much energy and effort in defending a guy who shot an unarmed child?”

    I agree with the people who answered “tribalism & racism” and “anything Obama is against, I’m for”

    But there is more to it:
    1 the crazy “stand your ground” law – we’ve had 30 yrs of gun nut protection laws being passed, and when innocent people are murdered by “honest, law abiding, gun owners” they always had some hook, some tiny factoid to cloud the issue and pretend that if more people were armed then nobody could shoot up a school, or if the kid hadn’t got the address wrong when he rand the door bell he would be alive today
    Here you have a blatant case of Florida basically legalizing murder
    The whole concept of letting wingnut lobbyists writing stupid laws that the States pass unquestioned took a serious hit

    2 slime and defend – In the past few months, smearing PP failed and Komen lost donations, smearing a collage student failed and Limbaugh lost advertisers
    If this keeps up, pretty soon people will stop believing wingnut smear campaigns, and their targets wont self-censor
    If the wingut wurlitzer fails to successfully smear a black teen, then 30yrs of conservatism comes crashing down

  155. 155

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  156. 156
    Groucho48 says:

    @jncc:

    My understanding is that the police used the height and weight that was on Martin’s Driver’s License for their preliminary report. I saw that in a blog comment, so, it may not be accurate, but, it sounds reasonable to me.

    Saw it on a right wing site, where the general consensus was that Martin was 6’3″ and over 200# and a current football player, and the comment got a lot of flak…along the usual right wing lines of…well he probably got the license the day he turned 16 and he was probably almost 18 when he got shot(Not true…he’d just turned 17) so, in those two years he could have easily grown into a strapping buck who would be scary enough to shoot on sight. Everyone agreed to make it so, and the comments went back to demonizing his suspension.

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