If Justice Kennedy strikes down the individual mandate but leaves PPACA otherwise intact, the only people who pay regular insurance premiums will be the chronically ill and these guys.
Call it Blue Cross/Blue Shield’s worst case scenario.
Chat about whatever.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
And I thought one of the people on DK’s Abbreviated Pundit Round-Up had it right: If the court strikes down the ACA, they will strike down any attempt at health care reform, including a Public Option or Medicare for All.
Catsy
Snapped this during my commute. I’d seen one of these vans once or twice before but this is the first time I’ve been able to get a picture.
Obots are everywhere!
Represent!
oldmtnbkr
For a different soundtrack and great scenery of Scotland, check out Danny’s video Way Home. Yeah, good thing he has NHS!
gene108
If you ever volunteer to participate in a phase III clinical trial to get a drug approved by the FDA, make sure the folks who designed the study don’t require you to wear a 24-hour blood pressure monitor.
Damn thing is annoying as hell. Squeezes your arm twice an hour during the day and once an hour, while you toss and turn fitfully in bed because your arm’s getting squeezed by a blood pressure cuff.
I really think people, who design these studies, should run through all the crap they put people through.
Maybe a new FDA mandate or something.
Judas Escargot, Your Postmodern Neighbor
Local News: Senator Scott Brown just voted with the rest of the GOP to continue over $4 Billion in tax subsidies for oil companies.
State of Massachusetts’ renewable energy industry: Already our 10th largest employer, with projected growth rates of 20% per annum.
Number of oil wells in Massachusetts: ZERO.
Amount of money Scott Brown took from oil companies: $152,100 (as of Nov 2011).
(Anyone else living in MA who’d like to propagate these numbers via Book of Face or whatever, feel free).
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
I call this the Nach Aetna uns fantasy.
Brian S
On the plus side, BC/BS won’t have any trouble hitting that 80% of premiums spent on care rule.
catclub
@Judas Escargot, Your Postmodern Neighbor: I just want to mention that Judas Escoffier is likely to be chasing Judas Escargot.
—
During my daughter’s childhood, a picture of a salmon being chased by a dish of melted butter was created ( not sure by whom) titled “A Salmon Swims from the Inevitable”.
chopper
well, i do have to say watching the insurance companies choke out and die over the next few years would be a decent consolation prize. of course, it would be part and parcel of a scotus looking to shoot down any decent attempt to fix the health care crisis in this country.
Davis X. Machina
Are you suggesting that tort reform isn’t the best way for a nation to prepare to deal with, say, a 1919-scale ‘flu pandemic?
Why do you hate Freedom™?
Mark S.
The House rejected Simpson-Bowles. Next up, the Ryan Plan:
It’s really hard to do anything when one party is insane.
gene108
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
Well duh…the day someone can run on a platform for universal health care and commandingly win elections, will be the day things change…
Right now pushing for universal health care is a big political risk.
Why?
Because right-wingers are paranoid. They think because NYC and DC got hit on 9/11/01, their home in Wilkesboro, NC will be next.
Also, too in order to defend their home and person in Wilkesboro, NC they will need to carry concealed fire arms on their person at all times, because of the astronomical crime rates in those places.
Therefore, they believe they’ll be subject to death panels, if government gets more control of the health care system.
Lurker
Don’t we have existing examples of mandate-free, non-discriminating health insurance systems right now in New York, New Jersey, Vermont and Maryland? Insurers in those states cannot discriminate against preexisting conditions by law, but residents are not mandated to purchase health insurance.
Linnaeus
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
Could very well be true. But if the ACA is struck down, I don’t see what else we’re left with but to fight for something better. This is just too large of a problem to be allowed to continue.
Catsy
@Mark S.:
I don’t know why this isn’t blisteringly obvious to anyone paying the slightest bit of attention to American politics.
ant
and this kid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RwgQ-tU930s
gene108
@Linnaeus:
Something better for the Republican and right-wing leaning Independent “half” of the country varies from a race to the bottom, by allowing insurance to sell across state lines, without any minimum standards to doing away with medical insurance all together. They will have people pay out of pocket for everything, because we’re a nation of hypochondriacs that routinely use too much health care because we don’t pay for it ourselves and that’s why medical costs keep rising.
There’s no rational, reasoned way to get through to these people. They either have to become dependent on government services – such as Social Security or Medicare – or they have to get totally screwed and realize the current system isn’t as good as they thought it was, in order to embrace a government solution to this issue.
If the PPACA is struck down, it’s game-over-man for universal health care for another 20 years.
Handy
We have to make some changes in 2012. We need to replace the teabagger congress critters with . . . well anything else. Obama could get more done if the house wasn’t infected with the teabagging crowd. The democrats are bad enough and not nearly progressive enough. IMO
catclub
@gene108: I think you do the people of Wilkesboro a grave disservice. Everyone around there knows its the folks in Mt Airy that are crazy.
—
Winston-Salem big city boy presenting.
Arm The Homeless
Living in Florida has made me very attuned to the Trayvon Martin case. I don’t want to think bad thoughts, but I get the feeling that this is going to be a very long and drawn out case where eventually it gets thrown out because of the circus surround it.
On the bright side, I don’t see them getting to trial until after the election.
Also, too, is it just a coincidence that he is wearing the same color clothes he was reportedly wearing during the shooting, and yet it looks like someone did his laundry before he is seen on video? 5 will get you 10 is you can explain how a point blank shot to the chest doesn’t splatter blood all over Zimmerman while he is supposedly laying underneath the dead kid.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@Linnaeus:
If this comes about, it would be due to DC coventional wisdom re: the 2010 midterms (and a subsequent failure of the Dems to capitalize on the issue in 2012 and beyond), not what SCOTUS does. Future congresscritters will stay away from healthcare reform if it is perceived as a toxic issue that is best avoided, because any bill you vote on will make things worse rather than better re: re-election. That appears to be what happened after the collapse of Clinton’s attempt back in the 1990s, which is why it took us this long to get to where we are now with Obamacare. If the PPACA is struck down, it will probably be another decade or two before you’ll see anything ambitious attempted in Congress.
andy
It’s interesting that so many people who so ostentatiously style themselves Christians are yet so dead set on joining the goats.
We’re fucked. We really really are fucked. So corrupt we cannot dig ourselves out if digging out means helping people we would prefer to die quietly out of sight.
Meantime, this guy is doing the best tricks beautifully photographed in Scotland.
Linnaeus
@gene108:
Oh, I’m not saying the work will be easy or that we’ll get good results anytime soon. But it’s still got to be done, even if it takes years. There’s no other choice.
dr. bloor
@Catsy:
Oh, it is. But as it happens, having a clinically insane political party around makes for great teevee ratings.
Linnaeus
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ:
Maybe so. Which is why it’s all the more imperative to lay the groundwork for that.
Felinious Wench
If it gets struck down, the Repubs will not be able to help themselves with the gloating. The images of them dancing on TV while sick people tell their stories about how the repeal affects them will be yet another image of the Republican party falling into hell.
Nero fiddling while Rome burns.
dr. bloor
@Arm The Homeless:
Oh, I’ll bet the Zimmerman family has already retained an expert to tell us exactly how such a thing could happen. And he will most assuredly be getting a lot more than “10” for his expertise.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@gene108:
Except for the fact that the Health Insurance an’t an industry in good shape. They’re supposed to be way passed the tipping point were there enough people able to pay their sky high premium to keep them going.
Keith G
Tim, we need more Max. Stat.
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Also…mobile site is not working well.
Jeff Spender
Yeah. The Conservatives on the Supreme Court are embarrassments. I cringed when I read transcripts of Scalia’s questioning and his pompous bloviating. My coping mechanism involves me sticking my nose in a microbiology textbook and research papers about the CD47 surface protein, so I’m pretty OK. Even though repeal of the PPACA means I lose health insruance and, due to my aortic valve stenosis, will probably be unable to afford any for a very long time.
Steve in DC
I don’t think striking it down is game over for UHC. The mandate was pretty stupid, but it’s suicide for Republicans to strike it down just because they want to deny Democrats victories.
The cost of healthcare is through the roof and that’s not going to change. And that cost is a boat anchor around the neck of many businesses and the nation.
If the supreme court shoots it down expect to see state level solutions start cropping up all over the place. Expect to see those states start working together for healthcare as well.
It doesn’t have to go through congress.
Hill Dweller
Kennedy seemed to be more worried about the damage done to the insurance companies if they strike down the mandate. He even wondered aloud if striking down the entire thing would be less damaging.
Nevertheless, the conservative justices seemed utterly clueless about health care policy.
JPL
Emergency rooms are not meant to treat common illnesses which is why ACA is so important. If the mandate is overturned, how soon before EMTALA is overturned.
I linked to Luckovich’s cartoon earlier but it needs to be highlighted again.
Arm The Homeless
@dr. bloor: Back and to the left … back and to the left … back and to the left …
I feel like I will be watching an iteration of this story on Law & Order, followed quickly by an Oliver Stone movie.
Anyone want to take bets on who plays Zimmerman?
Linnaeus
@Steve in DC:
That’s what I’m thinking, too. Striking down the PPACA doesn’t make the problem go away and while people do have an inordinate capacity to ignore problems, I don’t think this one can be ignored for much longer. Perhaps I’m mistaken on that.
flukebucket
@ant:
It is hard to believe that there are people who can do that. Watching it gave me the same feeling I had when John posted about the wing flapping flying human.
Don’t ruin the experience of watching it by reading the comments. People can be sickening.
geg6
I don’t like saying this or feeling this way because all we have is oral arguments, not exactly a fool-proof harbinger of what the eventual decision will be, and July will be soon enough to get depressed and then go out and fight like hell up until November.
But I really hate this country and most of its citizens sometimes and today is one of those times.
Hill Dweller
@Steve in DC: All those states will need at least some federal funding to get things off the ground. If the SC knocks down the medicaid expansion as well, it will throw virtually every post-WWII social program into disarray.
Judas Escargot, Your Postmodern Neighbor
@Felinious Wench:
I agree with all of this. And (given what happened to the GOP primary polls when they started cheering at the thought of sick and dead people during the debates), this could be turned against them.
__
If the Dems running for Congress had any brains (and enough cash), they’d fill the airwaves 24/7 with testimonials from people who lost their insurance when ACA was overturned. There will be a few million of them, shouldn’t be too hard to find.
__
Then again, we’re talking about a populace that cheered at the idea of the uninsured dying in the streets like dogs…
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@Linnaeus:
There’s groundwork to be laid regardless of whether the PPACA is struck down or not, because if it is upheld (which I still think is the most likely scenario by a large margin) then the next step is to address the source of healthcare costs on the provider side of the system.
The PPACA creates the necessary conditions for that by moving the health insurance industry into a near zero-sum condition so now they have an honest stake in provider cost reduction. That is why my mantra is Elkins Act, Hepburn Act. The healthcare industry today is an awful lot like the railroads circa 1903 in terms of both economics and legislative politics and I think a similar path is available to us to reform and regulate it so it doesn’t take such a large bite out of our GDP. But first we have to get a level playing field in terms of the cost structure of the industry so enough folks have a stake in overall cost reduction to make the latter a realistic target for Congress to aim at, and the PPACA does that.
cckids
@Felinious Wench:
.
More like Nero dousing the homes with gasoline while Rome burns.
Davis X. Machina
@Linnaeus: Higher premiums, higher deductibles, more exclusions, you could string the whole thing along for another decade, easy.
Things were ‘intolerable’ back when Sen. Harris Wofford rode HCR to the senate in a special election — twenty years ago. Santorum beat him, and Santorum in turn has been out of the Sente long enough to be a joke.
geg6
@Keith G:
You could be me. The only place I can read BJ these days is at work, assuming I have the time in the midst of awarding season. BJ won’t load on the home desktop because it runs on IE. And I can’t read the little, teeny, tiny, microscopic font of the mobile site on my phone. And the button that supposedly changes my phone’s view from the mobile site to the regular site is not there on my phone, no matter how many times I check.
I’m not going to email Cole about any of it, but I’m not happy.
Linnaeus
@geg6:
I feel that way sometimes too.
Catsy
That’s only the beginning. How many people with pre-existing conditions now have (affordable) insurance because of the PPACA. How many are still alive right now solely because of insurance they’d never get (or be able to afford) without it?
If the PPACA is gutted of Guaranteed Issue and similar reforms, expect to see more than just sick people telling their stories on TV. Expect to see dying people telling their stories, or their surviving relatives.
In many cases like this, repealing the PPACA is effectively a death sentence for them. And their stories and families cut across party lines.
Also, this:
geg6
@Steve in DC:
Oh, boy! Race to the bottom! I can hardly wait!
JPL
@geg6: ditto…
Steve in DC
@Linnaeus
I don’t think they are ignoring it now, at least nobody serious is. The cost is going through the fucking roof, and that’s not going to change.
Several states have already hinted that they are going to move forward with their own solutions, and good on them, many sound better than the fiasco that is Obamacare.
The Republicans are going to be pissed though. Obama put into place the most rightwing solution to healthcare possible outside of “hospitals no longer have to see people that don’t have insurance”, they couldn’t ask for more.
When that’s gone and states put into place better solutions that start working the ship will have sailed on the evil of UHC. All it takes is a few states like Vermont making it work and the rest will follow.
Democrats are way to concerned with federal solutions. The federal government is an asylum at best. Look at what’s happening now all over the nation? Be it the left or the right, all the battles and victories are at the state level. Ultrasounds, union busting, gay marriage being allowed. You can change things around much quicker.
piratedan
you know, what would be nice, is if our proud public servants, those in the judicial as well as legislative branches, had a taste of what it is that they’re feeding to their fellow citizens. No health care for me, means no health care for thee as well. Then other mandates should also be called into question, why should anyone have to sign up for social security, and that silly selective services stuff, no reason to have that, after all, we’re all armed and bunkered down in our basements thanks to our second amendment remedies.
After all, if these guys can take something as simple as limiting clips on a semi-automatic handgun as meaning that all guns are going to be confiscated, why can’t I see the removal of the health care mandate as a reason that I am no longer subject to any federal authority?
Judas Escargot, Your Postmodern Neighbor
@cckids:
…after taking out fire insurance on all those homes beforehand.
Linnaeus
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ:
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No argument from me on that one. I never thought the PPACA was the final word on health care policy. It was a step toward a better system, that’s all.
__
@Davis X. Machina:
You could, I imagine. Eventually, though, something’s got to give. It might be later than I’d like, but still.
PeakVT
@gene108: I disagree, simply because medical cost inflation will bankrupt us well before that.
David Koch
If they kill ACA, will the left wing pot heads who said ACA was a giveaway to corporations come clean and admit they were wrong? Or will they just come up with another conspiracy theory?
I mean if ACA was a boon for corporations (as they have insisted), then why didn’t corporations file amicus briefs supporting ACA? Why aren’t corporations publicly campaigning for the law? Why were Justices who favor corporations so hostile to ACA during oral arguments?
geg6
@Steve in DC:
Yeah, I guess if you live in Vermont you can.
Sadly, I live in Tom Corbett’s PA. He’s already cut half of any state funding for anything and anyone who isn’t a Marcellus gas driller and we expect the other 50% to be cut in the new budget in June. SCHIP is dead here. Education might as well be. The idea that the PA State Legislature (GOP led!) or Tom Corbett give shit one about what any other state is doing or whether or not the citizens of PA, whether small business owner or blue collar worker, can afford health insurance is too laughable to even consider.
You must live in a bubble.
Jeff Spender
Yeah. You know, in the end, I was happy with the PPACA because it meant I could get affordable health insurance. Despite its flaws, I am one of the people who will lose insurance because of a pre-existing condition, and I don’t want it to be overturned. I would just have to pray I don’t get sick.
Man, the insurance covers a yearly $6,000 battery of tests on my heart that I couldn’t afford otherwise. These tests are needed to assess the progression of my heart disease for the purposes of surgery and medication options.
So, frankly, I’m terrified.
Steve in DC
@geg6
What “race to the bottom”? Doing things at the state level does not automatically translate into a race to the bottom.
If states such as Vermont do set up a single payer system and it actually works that’s great. It will also kill off the “death panel” nonsense when that doesn’t happen. The cost benefits will be nice as well and you might even see people move there.
If the conservatopias don’t want to get into it and let things go that’s on them. But it’s self defeating when you compare them to states that did tackle the problem.
Going to the state level depends on the state for if it’s good or bad. But it does allow things to happen much faster.
oldmtnbkr
@Steve in DC: Yes, state-by-state (rather, province-by-province) proved to be the path to a good national system in Canada. So, let’s keep our chins up, eh?
Steve in DC
@geg6
I wouldn’t trust my state to fix it right away either. So it would suck for a bit, but it’s a path to getting an actual solution. As someone who was never happy with the current ACA and despise the fact that we caved to pass it, I’m perfectly OK with it being shredded and rolling the dice on getting something better.
WaterGirl
The new site is so hard on my eyes that I can only read for about 5 minutes at a time. Going away now, hoping that it gets better in a few days.
The mobile site is even worse, text is way too small and trying to spread the text to increase the size appears to be disabled.
Pretty discouraging overall.
David Koch
@Jeff Spender: on a serious note, you might want to move to Massachusetts where ACA would survive in the form of Romneycare.
Hill Dweller
@Steve in DC:
‘Obamacare’ already allows states to set up their own system, as long as they can prove it lowers costs at the same rate. For example, Vermont is going to implement single-payer.
That said, states will need federal funding. Romneycare was paid for in large part by medicaid funding. Again, if the SC knocks down the medicaid expansion in ‘Obamacare'(which would be radical by any measure), it would throw everything into disarray.
Nothing good will come of ‘Obamacare’ being struck down, at least not in the near term.
JPL
If ACA is overturned GA will demand that insurance companies be allowed to offer coverage that excludes women’s health. Of course it will be called better coverage for all
4tehlulz
Yes, I’m sure everything will be fine. Hey, if a few people die from being unable to get healthcare, the cost is perfectly justifiable. After all, you can’t make an omelet without breaking a few eggs.
David Koch
@WaterGirl: send an email to John. Maybe he’ll listen.
Death Panel Truck
Jeff Bezos says he’s found the F-1 engines that launched Apollo 11 to the moon.
.
The guy must not realize there were 12 launches of the Saturn V rocket: Apollos 4, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 and 17. There’s no way for him to know which one he’s allegedly found.
Warren Terra
Re Site issues:
I’m glad the Edit function now works properly (returns you to the thread).
The links at the top of each thread for the previous post and next post used, I think, to simply give the name of the post, and now say “previous post” and “next post”. I think it’s important to say “previous” and “next”, but couldn’t they say this and say the title?
I’d still love a Recent Comments list.
I don’t have WaterGirl‘s problem reading the site, but it sounds like a serious one it’d be nice to get addressed.
Judas Escargot, Your Postmodern Neighbor
@Death Panel Truck:
He can be pretty sure, though: You’re not allowed to launch a rocket (not even if you’re NASA) unless you can certify where the jettisoned stages are expected to fall into the sea.
__
I’d prefer that that money be spent to, you know, develop new rocket engines… but it’s Bezos’ money, so he can do what he wants with it.
dance around in your bones
@WaterGirl:
I don’t know what browser you use, but on Firefox you can install an add-on called NoSquint that lets you adjust font size on the full page and/or text only.
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Another feature of NoSquint is the ability to change the color of the background – the color choices are a little odd, but you can use a soft ivory or grey that would be easier on your eyes.
__
Even if Firefox is not your main browser, it might be worth it to install it just to read Balloon Juice, since I know from reading here all the time that you are a Constant Reader and you would be sorely missed if you had to leave because of site issues. You can keep your main browser and Firefox open at the same time, so no problem there.
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I hope this helps.
Robert Sneddon
@Judas Escargot, Your Postmodern Neighbor: All of the Apollo launches followed the same trajectory, more or less. In a perfect world there would be a neat pile of spent first stages lying in a heap on top of one another at the bottom of the Atlantic somewhere.
Nature being the cast-iron whimsical beyotch she is, a very unaerodynamic empty fuel tank plus engines tumbling from sixty-plus miles up is gonna have a really wide CEP when it reaches sea level. It’s a miracle they all hit the same planet never mind landing in any particular part of the ocean.
Oh, and there was one other Saturn V launch, carrying Skylab. It used an S1-C first stage same as the Apollo launches. The stage Bezos claims to have found might be that one.
TooManyJens
@WaterGirl: This helped me a lot:
http://userstyles.org/styles/63253/balloon-juice-comments-fixer
I went into that stylesheet and tweaked it so all the text would be black by adding this immediately after the @-moz-document line:
body { color: #000000;}
.entry {
color: #000000;
}
mick
yes yes! and if tiny monkeys fly out of my anus i will have to lay newspaper down in my den!