Entering White Cecelia

The latest Fox News Latino poll is in ho-lee-shit territory for Republicans, with Obama beating Romney 70-14 among Hispanics. All the other candidates are basically 70-14, too. Kos runs the numbers on Latinos in swing Presidential states, and of course this new low in Hispanic support hurts Romney’s chances. In 2008, 31% of Latinos voted for McCain. At the rate they’re going, Republicans will cut that level of support about in half.






207 replies
  1. 1
    slightly_peeved says:

    If you haven’t seen this yet, you have to: an Australian teen, Hugh Atkin, made a Romney/Eminem mash-up “Will the Real Mitt Romney Please Stand Up?”

    Will The Real Mitt Romney Please Stand Up (feat. Eminem)

  2. 2

    Amen. The diary on KOS is really quite good and worth the time needed to wade through the analysis.

    What we need, of course, is to get more Hispanic people actively involved at the polls. The Hispanic community needs this, too, actually.

    ETA: [Ah! I found it!]

    http://www.chron.com/news/hous.....415281.php

    I thought this was a cute side note to the effort to increase Hispanic participation in the electoral process.

  3. 3
    Marcellus Shale, Public Dick says:

    its almost hard to believe they could only get 14% of the “latino” vote, considering all the nationalities that are thrown in that category. that is tv test pattern ratings level bad.

    can’t say they don’t deserve it. now, can we try to actually get this group motivated to vote for obama and the down ticket candidates?

    i think we could, if we really tried.

  4. 4
    lol says:

    Being a pessimist, it might be easy to look at this and say support FOR Obama hasn’t increased so much as support for Republicans has disappeared (too embarassed) but down the line, they’ll vote GOP anyways and there will be no change.

    Fortunately, the poll asks who they voted for in 2008 – 61-28 Obama. So this is a 9 point improvement FOR Obama over 2008.

    If Republicans keep this up, Latinos are going to become as reliably Democratic as African Americans.

  5. 5
    Elizabelle says:

    @slightly_peeved:

    that video is genius. Emailing it to friends.

  6. 6
    Steve says:

    This might actually be good news for John McCain.

  7. 7
    comrade scott's agenda of rage says:

    But, but, but, the Villagers say it’s neck and neck because Romney’s gonna *kill* when it comes to Teh Whitey vote. And that Latinos don’t vote. And that Repup SuperPACs will swamp Dem ones. Etc. Etc.

    In other words, this is all good news for any given Republican.

  8. 8
    hueyplong says:

    It’s not like the GOP has accidentally sounded a wrong note with Latino voters. They’ve affirmatively campaigned on demonizing them. Two possible explanations are:

    (1) In their fact-deficient FoxNews bubble, they think any Latinos who can speak English are Randian achievers who are with them, and will now assume that only 14% of Latinos speak English; and/or

    (2) It’s their intention to prevent Latinos from voting in any event, so who cares how bad the numbers are among non-voters?

  9. 9
    MattMinus says:

    But…but…but the media keeps telling me that Hispanics, unlike all other people on the planet,value faith and family,which makes them a natural Republican constituency.

  10. 10
    gnomedad says:

    They’re just such poor sports.

  11. 11
    Egg Berry says:

    Looking at the map of the Illinois primary results, Rmoney only broke 50 percent in a few counties (I counted 2), but that included Cook County.

    People really don’t like them some Rmoney.

  12. 12
    Wag says:

    @comrade scott’s agenda of rage:

    And that Latinos don’t can’t vote because we won’t allow them to steal our country from the white guy.

    fixed!

  13. 13
    MattF says:

    Note to Republicans: They may not speak unaccented English but that doesn’t mean they’re stupid. Your move.

  14. 14
    capt says:

    Makes me wonder about the 14% but I totally understand the rest.

  15. 15
    jibeaux says:

    So there’s a 20 to 26 percentage point gender gap and a 56 percentage point Latino gap. Real headscratcher, that.

  16. 16
    PeakVT says:

    @capt: The 14% is either old Cubans or cares about abortion as much as the typical white fundie.

  17. 17
    dmsilev says:

    @Egg Berry: I counted three (Cook, Lake, and duPage). He came close in Will County (49.3%). For those not familiar with Illinois geography, that set of counties comprises Chicago and the first few rings of suburbs. In other words, the area of the state that’s most heavily (D).

    So, Romney is winning among Republicans who live in Democratic regions, and is losing or at best barely edging out his opponents in the Republican base regions.

  18. 18
    samara morgan says:

    In 2010 Michael Medved came out with No Political Future for an All White GOP.
    In it he states that the 2012 candidate will need 65% of the white vote to beat Obama, given minorities vote in the 2008 percentage for Obama, 82%.
    He also says it is impossible for the GOP candidate to get 65% of the White Vote.
    In 2008 hispanic and latinos voted for Obama at 67%.
    If it was impossible for the GOP to get 65% of the white, given the recent disaffection of single white women from the GOP over slutgate and the increase in the brown vote from 67% to 70%, is it now mathematically impossible for the GOP candidate to win in November?

  19. 19
    kay says:

    I love these polls because they really highlight how our entire political commentary industry focuses like a laser on white people.

    65% approval for Obama on health care (“everyone hates the health care law!”) and his biggest chunk of support comes from people with a high school diploma, the elusive “working class” that pundits are always pretending to care deeply about.

    They mean white people when they say anything. Just mentally preface every pundit statement with “white people”.

  20. 20
    Dork says:

    The diary on KOS is really quite good and worth the time

    Words that are rarely ever spoken anymore.

  21. 21
    samara morgan says:

    @jibeaux: you forgot the 84% black gap.

  22. 22
    beltane says:

    @MattMinus: No one who truly values faith and family is going to vote Republican as the only things Republicans value are money and white skin.

    The Beltway pundits may not be aware of this, but the so-called social conservatism of Latinos does not necessarily translate into the type of shrieking terror of “teh p**sy” experienced by white evangelicals.

  23. 23
    The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik says:

    Well, it’s a good thing all that anti-voter fraud legislation is going about. I mean, with a disadvantage like this, the GOP’s gonna need to do a LOT of disenfranchisement to win anything.

  24. 24
    Face says:

    Pretty sure Hispanics wont be voting in this election. Proof of citzy, 3 forms of picture ID, hair samples, and a letter from your mother will be required in every swing state.

  25. 25
    beltane says:

    @Face: This election they may even have to resort to demanding proof of male gender. Can’t have too many sluts women voting ya know.

  26. 26
    kay says:

    @MattMinus:

    But…but…but the media keeps telling me that Hispanics, unlike all other people on the planet,value faith and family,which makes them a natural Republican constituency.

    They do. They just think Democrats better represent traditional values.

    It’s 55/16 Democrats on “respect traditional values”. It’s 65/11 Democrats on “support small business”.

    Even wilder (and more interesting) 45% in this poll self-identify as conservative.

  27. 27
    Tone In DC says:

    @beltane:

    No one who truly values faith and family is going to vote Republican as the only things Republicans value are money and white skin.

    The Beltway pundits may not be aware of this, but the so-called social conservatism of Latinos does not necessarily translate into the type of shrieking terror of “teh p**sy” experienced by white evangelicals.

    LULz.

  28. 28
    Baud says:

    @kay:

    They just think Democrats better represent traditional values.

    They are right.

  29. 29
    MattMinus says:

    @beltane:

    Are Hispanics wiccans or something?

  30. 30
    bemused says:

    A Romney top advisor asked about Mitt’s shifting sand positions said on CNN that by the general, Romney will be an Etch-A-Sketch. That’s hilariously true but what kind of advisor would admit that openly on tv?

  31. 31
    Bulworth says:

    TeabagGOP aiming for < 5% African American vote and < 10% Latino vote.

  32. 32
    jibeaux says:

    @samara morgan: Well, if I named all the gaps, I’d be here all day.

  33. 33
    beltane says:

    @kay: The 45% of Democratic-leaning Hispanics who identify as conservative is not really a surprise. Valuing family is not just a catchphrase for those who actually value family. When you value your family you tend to support policies that benefit your actual family, such as access to health care and education. Instead of acting bewildered that conservative Latinos are supporting Obama, the media might do better to instead focus on the social pathologies of white conservatives, a group of people who value family so much that they are willing to condemn their own children to a blighted future just so they can live their dream of screwing over people who are different than themselves.

  34. 34
    kay says:

    @Baud:

    I think it would be great if pundits and those polled were operating under two entirely different definitions of “traditional values”.

    Confusion all around! Chaos and panic on the set of Morning Joe!

    You have to love how pundits completely accepted the Republican definition :)

    I always think pundits are, at base not so much GOP-leaning, but instead just rigidly conventional people. I think they’re more conventional and easily scandalized and upset than our local Rotary members, who are free and easy bohemians in comparison to Marc Halperin.

  35. 35
    MattF says:

    @kay: I’d use a different optical metaphor: non-white, non-male, non-Christian, non-Southern voters are outside the media field-of-view.

    Also, there’s another somewhat peculiar unstated idea, e.g., “African-Americans are going to vote for Obama regardless, so that’s not newsworthy.”

  36. 36
    cmorenc says:

    @hueyplong:

    It’s their intention to prevent Latinos from voting in any event, so who cares how bad the numbers are among non-voters?

    THAT. You’d be surprised (actually probably not so surprised) how many hard-core GOOPers firmly believe the 2008 election was fraudulently stolen from them by improper voting by: a) illegal immigrants: b) blacks and hispanics multiple voting (or voting without being actually registered) under assumed identities facilitated by lack of voter picture id requirements. Yes, the new voter id laws are cynically motivated to hold down turnout among democratic-inclined demographic groups, but they’re also rooted in firm belief that democrats couldn’t legitimately win the Presidency or a majority in congress without the aid of rampant voter fraud among minorities.

  37. 37
    kay says:

    @beltane:

    The 45% of Democratic-leaning Hispanics who identify as conservative is not really a surprise.

    It’s not to me, relying on a dictionary definition of “conservative”. Republicans have redefined a lot of words, which is a shame, that we let them change the meaning of words. If those polled are taking that word back to one that has actual meaning, good for them.

  38. 38
    Baud says:

    @kay:

    I always think pundits are, at base not so much GOP-leaning, but instead just rigidly conventional people.

    I think pundits operate in a system in which achieving success in their field requires that they accept the prevailing Republican method of evaluating the world (even if the pundits don’t adopt the GOP ultimate conclusions).

    I would like to see a poll of white people’s views that excluded the South, which for a variety or reasons is a whole different animal from the rest of the country.

  39. 39
    ericblair says:

    @kay:

    It’s 55/16 Democrats on “respect traditional values”. It’s 65/11 Democrats on “support small business”.

    These poll responses seem to (a) make sense from an objective perspective and (b) not correspond at all with the “mainstream” forcefed gooper pabulum coming out of TVs and radios. I’m guessing that so little of the gooper propaganda is targeted to hispanics (due to institutional hostility and ignorance) that most of the hispanic communities have been forced to make up their own minds instead. So you’ve got a core tribal group of goopers that have made their own reality bubble, and the rest of us browner, more liberal, more ovary-endowed, types are on the outside looking at the craziness from an ever-growing distance.

    Their only way out of this is massive voter suppression, and this seems to be well underway. It will help them, but it won’t be enough.

  40. 40
    Mark B says:

    Lots of Latinos are religious and family oriented, which would make them sympathetic to some traditional conservative values. However, the modern Republicans have bet the farm on xenophobia and racism, which pretty much alienates anyone who is a recent immigrant, or has relatives or friends who are. Nobody is going to vote for an idiot who wants to deport your ass.

  41. 41
    cmorenc says:

    @samara morgan:

    In 2010 Michael Medved came out with No Political Future for an All White GOP.
    In it he states that the 2012 candidate will need 65% of the white vote to beat Obama, given minorities vote in the 2008 percentage for Obama, 82%.

    And so their solution seems to be:
    1) Parade the trickle of black and Latino minorities who perversely fall into their orbit, as window-dressing for their openness to diversity;
    2) Discourage and frustrate anyone not in group #1 from voting to the maximum extent possible.

  42. 42
    kay says:

    @Baud:

    I think pundits operate in a system in which achieving success in their field requires that they accept the prevailing Republican method of evaluating the world (even if the pundits don’t adopt the GOP ultimate conclusions).

    I do, too. I think “the market” in punditry self-selects for conventional.

    Real people are so complicated, in their political views! I have a friend here, Darlene, an older lady, who was sort of a wishy-washy Right-leaning Democrat-really-a-Republican until her (grown) daughter came out as gay, and then all of a sudden she was riding around with a “hate is not a family value” bumpersticker on her huge sedan.

  43. 43
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @comrade scott’s agenda of rage:

    The Villagers HAVE To say that, because they are interested in the horse race, not in reality. They have to sell the election as “close” because it’s the only way they know how to frame an election, because it’s the lazy way to frame it, and lazy is the Village. They are slothful, decadent, worthless, and weak. Not one of them is worthy of life.

  44. 44
    samara morgan says:

    @cmorenc: this is true.
    the GOP has no other options at this point.
    in every GOP attempt to pander appeal to minorities the conservative base revolts.
    Slutgate is really going to hurt them.
    Single white women were the demographic that helped them run the Red Wave in the 2010 midterms.

  45. 45
    samara morgan says:

    @kay: even the great nate silver wont speak of the demographic doom that is looming on the event horizon for the GOP.
    he ignores the poll data that shows that minorities and single women are INCREASINGLY disaffected from the GOP so he can continue to feed the horse-race handicappers.
    No one pays to follow a one horse race.

  46. 46
    Redshift says:

    A couple of weeks ago, I think, I was listening to a discussion of the Republican primaries, and the fact was put forth that the GOP primary electorate is 91% white, and aside from Florida and Arizona, I think, it’s 96% white.

    After every election, wingnuts like to console themselves with statements of “if it wasn’t for the black vote, Democrats would never win an election.” But if it wasn’t for the white vote, the Republican Party wouldn’t exist.

  47. 47
    Chris says:

    @samara morgan:

    in every GOP attempt to pander appeal to minorities the conservative base revolts.

    Ding Ding Ding. Between a rock (the ever-growing nonwhite demographic that won’t vote for them) and a hard place (the Angry White Conservative base that won’t vote for them if they do anything that makes the nonwhites want to vote for them).

    Slutgate is really going to hurt them.

    Apparently it wasn’t enough to alienate minorities, they had to double down by hating women too. Man, have they got some dumb motherfuckers running their thing…

  48. 48
    Elizabelle says:

    @samara morgan:

    Thank you for the link, samara. Looks like you’re going to get me to read something from Townhall.

    Well, I guess I thank you …

  49. 49
    Stephanie says:

    Time for Romney to announce the “son of Cuban exiles” Marco Rubio as VP.

  50. 50
    kay says:

    @samara morgan:

    even the great nate silver wont speak of the demographic doom that is looming on the event horizon for the GOP.

    This is going to make you crazy, but we disagree about this. I actually believe that Democrats have to make their case to Hispanic and/or young voters, and I dislike analysis that assumes some slam-dunk generational or ethnicity advantage or lock. I think it’s disrespectful to voters, actually, but I know you love Big Trends and lots of numbers :)

    It isn’t the way I look at the world, but I think you can certainly look at the world that way.

    I will say think kos does a great job on Latino issues, across the board, and I like his approach to advocacy on immigration. He pushes, because that’s what advocates do, but not in a way that’s counterproductive, and he’s honest that he’s an advocate on immigration , so pushing, not “observing reality”.

    Those are two different things, advocacy and objective analysis, and he knows that, and doesn’t pretend he’s doing one while actually doing the other. I think he threads that needle perfectly on immigration.

  51. 51
    Punchy says:

    Things just got WAAAAAAAAY more wingy in the House. Former AF White Evangelly. Go figs.

  52. 52
    beltane says:

    @Stephanie: That will help Romney with right-wing Cubans but I’m not seeing how this attracts Mexican-Americans, Puerto Ricans or anyone else. Also, is it true that Rubio converted to Mormonism? That won’t help him at all with religiously minded Latinos one bit.

  53. 53
    Felinious Wench, Team Uterati says:

    This is, hopefully, what turns Texas purple. I have great faith in my Hispanic neighbors to vote their anger. And it’s there. Lots of first generation immigrants, lots of friends who are illegally here. I know plenty. This is our friends, neighbors, and families they’re talking about.

    Texas was founded by Mexicans.

  54. 54
    Ben Cisco says:

    So demonizing them, belittling their languages, and grandstanding trying to see who hates them most didn’t work. UNPOSSIBLE!

  55. 55
    redshirt says:

    Slightly OT, but I finally caught most of “Game Change” on HBO about Sister Sarah and I found it horrifying. Like a monster movie. Well done though!

    But the thought that these teams of Republican professional operatives knew what they were dealing with in Palin and yet still did everything they could do to get her into power is terrifying.

    Even the subtle ending where it seemed obvious they knew they just unleashed Frankenstein’s monster onto the world was disheartening, because, “Oh well. It’s a paycheck”.

    We’re dealing with moral nihilists who will strip a newly built house for a few hundred dollars in copper.

  56. 56
    Xecky Gilchrist says:

    @kay: I think it would be great if pundits and those polled were operating under two entirely different definitions of “traditional values”.

    I believe this is so. In fact, I think the entire point of using the phrase “traditional [family] values” – likely not developed by, but certainly I first noticed it being hammered to death by, George HW Bush – was that it conveniently failed to have any actual definition yet it sounds appealing. Now the Villagers think it means “Republican values” and voters all have their own ideas.

  57. 57
    kay says:

    @samara morgan:

    And, samara, I’ll just stipulate that I’m sure your numbers are right. I just think people are more complicated than numbers allow for. Nate Silver doesn’t think it’s more complicated than numbers, so I don’t know why he doesn’t agree with you. Maybe you’re projecting too far out for him, with your “demographic doom scenario”?

    Just a thought. I’m sure you’ll bring him around :)

  58. 58
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    OT, but there is four inches of snow on the ground, and more falling, in TrackTown USA. Mind you, the calendar says it’s supposed to be spring.

    Well, I guess this pretty much proves that Al Gore is fat.

  59. 59
    AA+ Bonds says:

    Whoa glad an FPer is checking out Fox News Latino, it is a fascinating look at the contradictions between right wing rhetoric and market reality for Ailes

  60. 60
    Splitting Image says:

    @kay:

    I always think pundits are, at base not so much GOP-leaning, but instead just rigidly conventional people. I think they’re more conventional and easily scandalized and upset than our local Rotary members, who are free and easy bohemians in comparison to Marc Halperin.

    Pundits have mostly bought into the idea that it makes sense for everyone who calls himself a conservative to vote for the same party. That doesn’t make any sense.

    A “family-values” oriented Hispanic who immigrates to the U.S. probably wants to bring his family into the country as soon as possible and have a few kids. Birth control is still a modern thing, so conservative families tend to be larger. An old-school Southern Dixiecrat will freak out at this, because conservative to him means keeping the racial ratios where they used to be. The fewer kids Hispanic families have, the better. Similarly, conservative Muslim women are more likely to want to wear the face veil, which means if they are in the U.S. or Canada, they want the country to grant them the right too wear it. Conservative non-Muslims see that as a radical change. There is no common ground there.

    It’s lazy to think that everyone will ignore the substance of real issues that matter to them and vote according to the labels that the pundits think should be attached to each political party.

  61. 61
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    The great fear of the Teatards is that the newly ascendant former minorities will treat them just as the Teatards treated the minorities.

    They’re right to fear this, because karma is a bitch.

  62. 62
    Napoleon says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Here in North East Ohio we are on something like our 7th 70+ day in a row and the paper today says it was the warmest winter we ever had. It avereged a daily high of something like 44 degrees. It may actually hit 80 today.

  63. 63
    redshirt says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: It’s going to be in the low 80’s in the mountains of Maine today. About 40 degrees above normal. Nuts.

  64. 64
    AA+ Bonds says:

    On a related topic, if anyone is still wondering why so many Catholics vote Democratic:
     
    Paul Ryan’s 2013 Budget Reflects the Teachings of Ayn Rand, Not Jesus Christ
     

    We question why Ryan, as a self-professed Catholic, would put the teachings of ultra-capitalist Ayn Rand (of whom he has spoken glowingly) before the teachings of Jesus and the Church . . . .
    __
    Rand, whose doctrine states self-sacrifice for one’s friends—a core tenet of Christianity—is akin to slavery, teaches the value of the self over all others. In her worldview, self-interest and greed take the place of a higher power.
    __
    Ryan’s budget emulates Randian principles by decimating safety net programs and turning them into voucher-based systems, ostensibly ignoring the human dignity of the most vulnerable in society. Catholics United calls on Congressman Ryan to sincerely examine his conscience and recognize the devastating impact his Rand-inspired budget will have on the most vulnerable in society. The social Darwinist teachings of Ayn Rand have consistently been denounced by major Catholic leaders as antithetical to Catholic doctrine.

     
    People on the left need to get it through their heads that they can appeal to Catholic doctrine far more effectively than the Right can

  65. 65
    Xecky Gilchrist says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: The great fear of the Teatards is that the newly ascendant former minorities will treat them just as the Teatards treated the minorities.

    Yup. Weird how it never occurred to the Teahadis that the way to avoid that might be being nice.

  66. 66
    Stephanie says:

    @beltane: I have to agree with this (even though it’s a Fox poll):
    Poll: Hispanic voters love Obama, but Marco Rubio could end the romance

    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sf.....5301.story

  67. 67
    jibeaux says:

    @kay: I think that’s a very good point. It’s not as if it’s actually statistically impossible for Republicans to lure away voters. They could start by not actively going out of their way to offend them on a daily basis. GWB got a very respectable percentage of the Hispanic vote, and IIRC Reagan got young voters. The die seems a bit cast right now because there is little evidence that the Republicans are interested in reversing the trend, but it could change. People can also stay home; it would be a mistake for Democrats to count on a loyal base of support that will exist independent of the party actually doing anything for those supporters.

  68. 68
    pk says:

    Look, Hispanics are going to vote for Obama because, just like the blacks they are all racists. Women and young people vote for Obama because they are dumb. Muslims and non Christians will vote for democrats because they are terroristic heathens. I wonder if there is something republicans can do to alienate the the Asians by Nov?

  69. 69
    Redshift says:

    Nate Silver doesn’t think it’s more complicated than numbers, so I don’t know why he doesn’t agree with you. Maybe you’re projecting too far out for him, with your “demographic doom scenario”?

    Nate doesn’t really with anything that long-term. His area is polls, and polls more than a couple of months out are pretty meaningless. Doubtless that’s why he “won’t speak of it.” Not speaking of it doesn’t mean he necessarily disagrees.

    And I agree with you, Kay, that Democrats shouldn’t just assume that because Republicans are driving away Latinos and women that they’ll automatically become Democrats, but from what I see, they aren’t doing that.

  70. 70
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: We had 85 degrees yesterday in Massachusetts and it is only March.

  71. 71
    kay says:

    @Splitting Image:

    It’s lazy to think that everyone will ignore the substance of real issues that matter to them and vote according to the labels that the pundits think should be attached to each political party.

    My personal experience with Latinos here (they’re Mexican-Americans, primarily) is that they’re much more pro-union than the “average” person here. It’s anecdotal, but it’s really consistent. I don’t think I’m the only person who has noticed this, because unions put enormous resources into that group.

    It’s just interesting that there’s all this stuff going on somewhat below the radar in this country, and we have such a HUGE punditry force clustered all over the white working class demo. One would think they’d branch out a little from their 1970’s 80’s 90’s “Reagan Democrats” analysis model :)

  72. 72
    Veritas says:

    Hope for your sake that all those supposed latino voters have a government-issued photo ID. ;)

  73. 73
    geg6 says:

    @capt:

    Makes me wonder about the 14% but I totally understand the rest.

    Old Cubans in Miami. ‘Nuff said.

  74. 74
    jibeaux says:

    @Stephanie: I’m worried about that too, although I read somewhere an explanation of why it seemed unlikely Rubio would be the pick and I have such a hole in my head that I can’t remember the reason. Other than the less than terrific odds of that being a winning ticket, what is or are the reasons folks know about?

  75. 75
    Redshift says:

    @pk:

    I wonder if there is something republicans can do to alienate the the Asians by Nov?

    Talk more about the US borrowing money from “Uncle Chang,” maybe?

  76. 76
    amk says:

    memhney will win all the whitey vote. coloreds can suck it.

    /veritas

  77. 77
    Shinobi says:

    Well it doesn’t matter what hispanics and independents think of Romney right now. What matters is what they think after they hit the “reset” button for the actual presidential election.

    Everything that has happened up until now goes away and they get to start all over not being a crazy right wing republican! Like an Etch a Sketch apparently.

    Which brings up two questions 1. Do they really think the electorate is this stupid? 2. Is it?

  78. 78
    geg6 says:

    @kay:

    Yes, this. Black and brown working class people don’t exist. And, lately, I’m not sure about the existence of women of whatever color.

  79. 79
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @kay: I agree with you, it is not a given that Hispanics will always vote for Democrats. Weren’t the Italian immigrants just as demonized for being “swarthy” and speaking a strange language and being Catholic, in early 20th century, not that different from Latinos today. Yet Tancredo is the most zealotish anti-immigrant politician I can think of and being of Italian descent does not make you automatically a Democrat, in 2012.

  80. 80
    amk says:

    @Shinobi: yes and YES.

  81. 81
    Redshift says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: As a friend in Texas said earlier this month, “It’s 70 degrees here in March. I don’t like it. That means it’ll be 140 degrees by summer.”

  82. 82
  83. 83
    Veritas says:

    @pk:

    Still jacking off to your creepy “HOPE” poster from 2008?

    Leader-worship is a democrat phenomenon.

  84. 84
    Redshift says:

    @Shinobi: I don’t think it is. Apparently McCain was limited in his ability to “move to the center” because conservatives didn’t trust him, so every “I have to pretend to be moderate to win” was in danger of being interpreted as “HE’S SELLING US OUT!”

    Imagine how much worse that will be for Romney, who really can’t be trusted on anything.

  85. 85
    jibeaux says:

    @Shinobi: I hope that in every debate in which Obama gets to point out March Romney v. September Romney, he’ll work that etch-a-sketch line in there.
    EDIT: Okay, maybe not EVERY time. After a hundred, it would probably wear a bit thin.

  86. 86
    p.a. says:

    Well, like the Republicans keep telling us, actions have consequences, and we must take responsibility for them. Recruit racists, cultivate them and their enablers until they gain control of your party, and reap the results. And then, of course, smear on a nice thick layer of sexist icing onto the bigotcake you’ve baked, and enjoy the eating come November. Can’t wait till we hear them blame it on the biased reporting of the MSM.

  87. 87
    Shawn in ShowMe says:

    @kay:

    This is going to make you crazy, but we disagree about this. I actually believe that Democrats have to make their case to Hispanic and/or young voters, and I dislike analysis that assumes some slam-dunk generational or ethnicity advantage or lock

    I think we all know where you stand on the voting trends, Kay. Those trends don’t just happen on their own, they’re the result of a number of factors, including voter education by people like you on the ground.

    But Nate is all about Big Trends and lots of numbers. As Samara points out, he carefully sidesteps the issue of demographic disaster for the GOP, even though the Big Trends and numbers reveal exactly that. When you consider that he’s being paid by a MSM outpost that demands a horse race, it’s no surprise.

  88. 88
    Mino says:

    Superpacs are reading the wind and deciding to switch support to down-ballot Republicans. Incl. the Koch bros. That can really hurt us.

    Is anybody else getting bombed by pro-fracking/Keystone adds that outright lie about the destination of pipeline oil?

  89. 89
    HRA says:

    It hit 80 yesterday in the Buffalo, NY area and slated to do the same today. We broke the old record in the early 1900s by 43 degrees. How about that for being known chiefly for blizzards?

  90. 90
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @Veritas:

    Leader-worship is a democrat phenomenon.

    You may have developed an amnesia about the Bush years but we haven’t.

  91. 91
    Veritas says:

    @HRA:

    Superpacs are reading the wind and deciding to switch support to down-ballot Republicans. Incl. the Koch bros. That can really hurt us.

    Damn straight. The Super PACs are going to start working overtime once the primary fight is over. Get ready for a strategic bombing by Karl Rove and CrossRoads America/CrossRoads GPS. And the Koch brothers are just now opening up their checkbook…

  92. 92
    Xecky Gilchrist says:

    @Veritas: Leader-worship is a democrat phenomenon.

    That’s right, Bush has been retconned into a liberal, hasn’t he.

  93. 93
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @Shawn in ShowMe: Our MSM could put Pravda to shame, I think. How can anybody trust them after the Iraq debacle I don’t know.

  94. 94
    Veritas says:

    @Xecky Gilchrist:

    No Bush supporters came even close to the 2008 hysteria around Obambi.

  95. 95
    kay says:

    @Veritas:

    Hope for your sake that all those supposed latino voters have a government-issued photo ID

    Nice. An admission.

    We’re going to spend a lot of time reminding them that conservatives are working very hard in places like to Texas to keep them from voting.

    What a godammned betrayal. You know who dragged your last incompetent over the finish line in Texas and into the Presidency, as Texas governor? Latinos. The same goes for Jeb Bush in Florida. You lost them as voters so now you’re going to prevent them from voting? You’re hoping they won’t notice the Texas and Florida voter suppression laws are targeted to the voters you lost? How did John McCain keep his safe job on cable tv and on the gubmint payroll? Hispanic voters.

    What a proud, proud moment for conservatives. Your entire legal brain trust is now devoted to preventing people from voting.

  96. 96
    Mino says:

    @Redshift: I can remember 100 degrees in March in San Antonio. It did happen. The earliest on record is Feb 21, 1996.

    But I don’t think it necessarily influences the summer temps.

  97. 97
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Splitting Image:

    You have a good point, I think — Latino and other “conservative” demographics tend to have a much more traditional idea of what conservative means than the right-wing radicals calling themselves “conservatives” right now. Conservative Latinos do tend to have larger families than whites, but that means, like, four kids instead of two. Very few of them are going Duggar.

    And while those conservative Latinos are anti-abortion, the majority of them want access to birth control so they don’t have to have 8 or 10 kids like they would in the old country, so I doubt the current anti-family planning crusade is going to go over well with them.

  98. 98
    Kirbster says:

    Mitt will try to sound centrist for the general, but he’ll still be stuck with the Official GOP Platform document, which is going to be very far to the right.

    Then again, very few Republican voters ever bother to read their party’s actual platform. If they did, they’d be horrified.

  99. 99
    Veritas says:

    @kay:

    Preventing illegals from voting, and preventing people from voting fraudulently. Honest, patriotic, legal hispanics should have no problem getting a government-issued ID.

    For fucks sake I can pick up an Indiana driver’s license (or a non-driving ID) in a space of about 2 hours, with a simple form filled out and $21 paid. If you’re too stupid to figure out where the nearest DMV is, too illiterate to fill out some simple forms, and too poor to pay 21 fucking dollars, I’m not sure you’re intelligent enough to be involved in politics, quite frankly.

  100. 100
    Shawn in ShowMe says:

    @Redshift:

    Nate doesn’t really with anything that long-term. His area is polls, and polls more than a couple of months out are pretty meaningless. Doubtless that’s why he “won’t speak of it.” Not speaking of it doesn’t mean he necessarily disagrees

    .

    So I’m sure Nate will trumpet the trends of demographic disaster in September, right? I’m sorry, but that’s not what the Times is paying for. And I’m not so much of a purist that I demand that he do so. Just saying I understand why he can’t.

  101. 101
    pk says:

    @Veritas:

    “My” creepy Hope poster? I think you’ve got me mixed up with someone else. Touch defensive about the love-sick Romney worshipful posts are you?

  102. 102
    Veritas says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Latinos are pro-life and have very traditional ideas about family. I’m going to enjoy the Feminazi freakout when they do take over the Democrat Party, and the coastal liberal crowd finally realizes that. By 2040 the Democrat Party will be fiscally liberal, but socially conservative.

  103. 103
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Veritas:

    You must have missed that billboard in Florida in 2004 that proclaimed the deserting coward “Our Leader”, then.

    Republicans are definitely believers in the Führerprinzip.

    You show it every time you fluff the vile shit that is Rmoney.

  104. 104
    kay says:

    @Shawn in ShowMe:

    When you consider that he’s being paid by a MSM outpost that demands a horse race, it’s no surprise.

    I don’t suspect him of that. Yet :)

    I have been thinking about something else, though. The lack of factual information in media. You know how they always say Obama has to “get his message” out on, for example, the health care law? They refuse to cover even the basic parameters of the health care law? It’s up to political campaigns?

    They mean “pay media companies to run advertisements in election years”.

    So they really directly benefit from “he said/she said” on factual matters, because campaigns have to spend millions to correct the lies of a Sarah Palin or a Michele Bachmann. It’s really in their interest to keep these fake controversies on factual matters going.

    I have been wondering if that’s the business model.

  105. 105
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Veritas:

    No Bush supporters came even close to the 2008 hysteria around Obambi.

    O RLY?

  106. 106
    Peter J says:

    @jibeaux:

    I’m worried about that too, although I read somewhere an explanation of why it seemed unlikely Rubio would be the pick and I have such a hole in my head that I can’t remember the reason. Other than the less than terrific odds of that being a winning ticket, what is or are the reasons folks know about?

    A ticket with a Mormon and a guy who was raised as a
    Mormon?
    A lot of republican voters already have issues with voting for _one_ Mormon.

    Rubio also seem to have fabricated his family history.

  107. 107
    Veritas says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Find me something even REMOTELY this weird.

    Morons actually think Obambi was going to pay their bills. Amazing insight into what the typical Democrat voter thinks the government should do, as well as being creepy as fuck.

  108. 108
    J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford says:

    @beltane:

    Also, is it true that Rubio converted to Mormonism? That won’t help him at all with religiously minded Latinos one bit.

    Actually, Rubio was baptized a Mormon when he was younger and converted to Catholicism. Mormon’s who leave the faith are not high on the Mormon-approved list.

    I don’t think Rubio will be the Veep nominee. Throw in his bullshit immigration story (his family fled from Batista, not Castro) and he will be more of a distraction than attraction.

  109. 109
    Chyron HR says:

    @Veritas:

    By March 2011, the glorious Tea Party will have repealed NigCare with their threat of a government shutdown! VICTORY!!

    I’ve always wondered–when your predictions of the future turn out to be hilariously incorrect, do you convince yourself that you never said them? Or do you retreat into a deranged fantasy world in which you were right all along?

  110. 110
    Veritas says:

    Or how about this from just a few days ago?

  111. 111
    Peter says:

    No Bush supporters came even close to the 2008 hysteria around Obambi.

    That’s funny, because my local paper still has a columnist who swears that Bush was a misunderstood great leader, one of the best presidents in history, and that history will remember him as such.

  112. 112
    Veritas says:

    @Chyron HR:

    ObamaCare will be repealed by the Supremes soon. No need for a government shutdown.

    The four conservatives joined by Anthony Kennedy will laugh and strike down your abomination of a law before it even gets off the ground. Suck it.

  113. 113
    Brachiator says:

    @hueyplong:

    It’s their intention to prevent Latinos from voting in any event, so who cares how bad the numbers are among non-voters?

    Not quite true. There are too many Latinos for voter suppression to be consistently successful.

    The real question is what the Latino voter turnout may be. Getting out the vote should be vitally important to Democrats.

    @kay:

    I love these polls because they really highlight how our entire political commentary industry focuses like a laser on white people.

    So true. Another thing that amuses me is how pollsters and political wonks ignore the Asian vote. Part of this is because compared to other groups, Asian Americans are often not a statistically significant proportion of the national vote, and tend to be concentrated in a few states.

    But voter, and financial, support for Obama is huge among most Asian American voters. But you have to dig deep to find out about this.

  114. 114
    comrade scott's agenda of rage says:

    @Redshift:

    Here in red, rurl, Central Misery, it’s late April weather. Literally spring is a month early and winter was mild.

    It won’t get to 140 here in the summer but this also means the insect plagues will arrive a month early and not leave until early November. Ugh.

  115. 115
    kay says:

    @Veritas:

    preventing people from voting fraudulently

    Ah, yes. Except the specific term you’re looking for is “voter impersonation fraud” although conservatives distort language, so none of them use it.

    The premise is that one person will enter a polling place and impersonate another registered voter. It’s not even a net voter gain! It doesn’t even work on a 1 + 1 = 2 level!

    The voter who is impersonating the valid voter is by definition replacing that voter! Are you familiar with a poll book? Know how that works? It’s not complicated. Once you sign in and vote, you’re done! That voter doesn’t get TWO votes, the impersonator and the real vote. 1 + 1 doesn’t even equal 2!

    Voter impersonation fraud is batshit crazy, if you’d give it 5 seconds of independent thought, and walk through the steps, but you won’t.

  116. 116
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Veritas:

    Latinos are pro-life and have very traditional ideas about family.

    And they are strongly pro-birth control. Whoopsie. Too bad, so sad for you guys that you listened to the craziest of the crazy pro-lifers and decided to campaign against birth control when no one except the very fringiest of white Protestants is against it.

  117. 117
    Chyron HR says:

    @Veritas:

    You should probably stick to gloating about your vague predictions of VICTORY!! in the future world of 2040. That way it will be decades before we can throw them back in your face.

  118. 118
    Veritas says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    They asked about “easy access”. They didn’t ask “should the taxpayer be on the hook for recreational sex”?

  119. 119
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Veritas:

    Find me something even REMOTELY this weird.

    Wait, you find a voter who expects help with their mortgage to be weirder than one who encourages children to literally pray to a cardboard cutout of George W. Bush?

    Dude, that’s fucked up.

  120. 120
    Chyron HR says:

    @Veritas:

    Fess up, you only switched from worshipping Pawlenty to worshipping Romney because the latter promised to make you the magic space god of an alien planet, right?

  121. 121
    Veritas says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    One isn’t picking the pocket of the taxpayer to fund their lifestyle, the other is.

  122. 122
    Mnemosyne says:

    @J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford:

    Actually, Rubio was baptized a Mormon when he was younger and converted to Catholicism.

    And, IIRC, he now attends a Protestant megachurch with his family, not a Catholic one. He’s like the Rod Dreher of Republican politicians.

  123. 123
    Shawn in ShowMe says:

    @kay:

    So they really directly benefit from “he said/she said” on factual matters, because campaigns have to spend millions to correct the lies of a Sarah Palin or a Michele Bachmann. It’s really in their interest to keep these fake controversies on factual matters going.

    Fake controversy, horse race, shit-stirring. It doesn’t really matter what you call it, I think we’re describing the same phenomenon. Not doing your job is more profitable than doing your job.

  124. 124
    redshirt says:

    Trolls are good for bizness!

  125. 125
    Veritas says:

    Seriously, HE GUNA PAY FOR MA GAS, HE GUN PAY MA MORTGAGE! is the mindset of the Democrat voter summed up–get other people to pay for my lifestyle, instead of work for it myself.

  126. 126
    samara morgan says:

    @kay: Nate deletes every comment where i mention Medveds article. I asked Medved himself about it himself on a thread where he was promoting Romney and got my comments deleted.

    I think we all know where you stand on the voting trends, Kay. Those trends don’t just happen on their own, they’re the result of a number of factors, including voter education by people like you on the ground.
    __
    But Nate is all about Big Trends and lots of numbers. As Samara points out, he carefully sidesteps the issue of demographic disaster for the GOP, even though the Big Trends and numbers reveal exactly that. When you consider that he’s being paid by a MSM outpost that demands a horse race, it’s no surprise.

    Nate is anal about presenting the both sides do it psuedo fairness doctrine. or conservatives will just shun him and make their own polls like they did in 2008.
    everyone links Nate like hes the oracle of delphi, even conservative shills like sully and allahpundit. if he points out the demographic timer aka the Doom That Came to Sarnath, he loses half his linkage.

    Nate usta say demographics is destiny.
    Notice he nevah says that anymore.

  127. 127
    Ash Can says:

    I’m still not convinced Veritas isn’t a spoof; his material is just too good. I mean really, take a look at this:

    For fucks sake I can pick up an Indiana driver’s license (or a non-driving ID) in a space of about 2 hours, with a simple form filled out and $21 paid. If you’re too stupid to figure out where the nearest DMV is, too illiterate to fill out some simple forms, and too poor to pay 21 fucking dollars, I’m not sure you’re intelligent enough to be involved in politics, quite frankly.

    Barriers to voting: Be able to get to a DMV, have the time to go through the process (hint: it’ll probably take longer than two hours for all the working stiffs who can’t take time off work and have to go to the DMV when all the other working stiffs go), be literate, pay money. A pretty good list, complete with poll tax. And funny he should mention Indiana, on top of it.

    As far as I can tell, Veritas is just illustrating all the GOP/right wingers’ favorite ways to fuck with American democracy, and emphasizes the point that, in the rare instances voter fraud actually happens, whaddya know, it’s a Republican that’s guilty of it.

  128. 128
    kay says:

    @Veritas:

    Walk thru your voter impersonation fraud scenario with me.

    I’ll be the undocumented immigrant, and you be the valid voter, and we’re in a state that doesn’t require voter ID.

    I walk in and state your name and ask for a ballot. The poll worker checks the book and hands me YOUR ballot. I then sign the book with YOUR NAME.

    You come in, perhaps hours later, and proudly demand your ballot. The poll worker checks the book, and HOLY SHIT! Someone impersonated you!

    You’re honestly telling me that would somehow go under the radar, to the extent that Federalist Society lawyers can’t point to any real life examples?

    Why did you believe such an outlandish scenario? Did you apply any thought to that?

    This example should make you question everything you read in the WSJ and everything you hear on Fox News, because you swallowed this ridiculous idea WHOLE, and you vote! You KNOW how it works!

  129. 129
    Veritas says:

    @Ash Can:

    OhhoooOooh! Twenty-one whole dollars! What an intolerable, unbearable burden! And filling out a form that takes a 9th grade-level reading comprehension! My GOD, what burdens shall they place upon us next???

    I guess when you expect the government to pay for your gas and your mortgage, you can’t set aside a few bucks from the malt liquor and lotto ticket budget so you can get a photo ID and vote.

  130. 130
    kay says:

    @samara morgan:

    he deletes every comment where i mention Medveds article.

    That makes me sad, Samara. I hate when you’re silenced :)

    I’m just kidding with you, I think it’s a good question, but I don’t YET think Nate Silver is bought and paid for. Now I have to go to work :)

  131. 131
    Ed Drone says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    OT, but there is four inches of snow on the ground, and more falling, in TrackTown USA. Mind you, the calendar says it’s supposed to be spring.

    And in the nation’s capital, it’s 76 degrees today, 80 tomorrow, and we had about 1/2″ of snow the ENTIRE winter!

    Another unsettling “but it’s not really global warming” year starts.

    Ed

  132. 132
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Veritas:

    They asked about “easy access”. They didn’t ask “should the taxpayer be on the hook for recreational sex”?

    Why is the Republican Party against married people having sex, Veritas?

  133. 133
    shortstop says:

    @slightly_peeved: Absolute brilliance.

  134. 134
    Veritas says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    We aren’t. We’re against the taxpayer funding it. Buy your own damn pills.

  135. 135
    Cacti says:

    Unless Romney markedly improves his standing with women and hispanic voters, there isn’t a winning electoral math for him.

    At this point it looks like he’ll underperform McCain’s 2008 result.

  136. 136
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Veritas:

    So how much of a poll tax do you want, Veritas, since you feel $21 is too low for people to pay for the privilege of voting? Should every voter have to pay $40 at the poll in order to get their ballot? Should it have to be in cash, or will poll workers have credit card machines at their desks so voters can pay using Visa or Mastercard?

  137. 137
    Chyron HR says:

    @Veritas:

    Malt liquor! “HE GUN PAY MA MORTGAGE!” All hail George Zimmerman! Don’t re-NIG NIG NIG!

    I think I’m beginning to see why Herman Cain’s 2000 Presidential run, his 2004 GA Senate run, and his 2012 Presidential run all died in the GOP primaries.

    (Is your prediction that he’ll be Romney’s VP still active, or are you pretending you never said that, either?)

  138. 138
    samara morgan says:

    @J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford: Rubio wont be the VP because the GOP doesnt want to waste him on a losing ticket. Failed VPs do not win the presidency.
    also its the Lesson of Palin. Hes too green.
    If the GOP had held off on Palin and groomed her she would have been formidable.
    trust, Game Change to Game Over is a lesson the GOP puppetmasters have learned.

  139. 139
    Cacti says:

    @Veritas:

    We aren’t. We’re against the taxpayer funding it. Buy your own damn pills.

    Liar.

    The Blunt Amendment was about giving private, non-religious employers the ability to force their religious whims on employees.

    Having never known the touch of a woman that wasn’t paid for, I can see why you wouldn’t understand why it would bother them.

  140. 140
    Ash Can says:

    @kay: When silliness like this turns up, whether spoof or serious troll, I can’t help wishing that the few-and-far-between actual sensible, lucid conservatives who have shown up here wouldn’t be such strangers. It’s refreshing to examine the viewpoint of someone who thinks differently but isn’t an out-and-out idiot. Too bad there are so few folks like that around.

  141. 141
    Judas Escargot, Your Postmodern Neighbor says:

    @Veritas:

    Leader-worship is a democrat phenomenon.

    The ghost of Ronaldus Magnus would beg to differ.

    Expect a visitation at midnight.

  142. 142
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Veritas:

    We aren’t. We’re against the taxpayer funding it. Buy your own damn pills.

    What taxpayer funding? My company coordinates my healthcare and I pay for that insurance. How on earth does “taxpayer funding” come into it at all?

  143. 143
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Veritas:

    Projection. How does it work?

  144. 144
    samara morgan says:

    @kay: dont weep for me kay.
    the more angry people get at what i say, the higher my truth-o-meter pegs.
    having my comments deleted is vindication.
    also too being banned.

    what i do not appreciate is sneaky little cowards that mark my comments as spam without having the nads for an actual banning.
    ;)

  145. 145
    Veritas says:

    @Chyron HR:

    What race is George Zimmerman again? Oh, that’s right–he’s latino.

  146. 146
    JCT says:

    @Redshift: I just got back from a business trip to China and I lost count of how many times I was asked about Romney and his China-bashing. Many times from academics that have appointments at US universities so they spend part of the year here.

    No love for Mittens with that constituency.

  147. 147
    Veritas says:

    It’s IS utterly hilarious to see you guys try to make George Zimmerman into a white guy because that’s the narrative you want, lest the “rainbow coalition” of black and brown turns out to be a myth white liberals tell themselves. The doublethink is astounding.

  148. 148
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Cacti:

    I’m just waiting for makewi to come back and tell us all that of course employers should be allowed to dictate religious practice to their employees. If a Catholic hospital can’t tell a Hindu radiologist who works for them that she’s not allowed to use the Pill because it’s against Catholic doctrine, then religious freedom means nothing in this country.

  149. 149
    Veritas says:

    @JCT:

    Like Democrats don’t engage in China-bashing? How many times do they whine about the Chinese “stealing” union jobs?

  150. 150
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Veritas:

    Still waiting for you to explain how the insurance I get from my private employer is paid for by your “taxpayer money.”

  151. 151
    amk says:

    veritas – you dumbfuck of a coward. How about you show your ugly mug here whenever mehmney loses the primaries?

    cowardly prick.

  152. 152
    Veritas says:

    @amk:

    U mad bro?

  153. 153
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @Veritas: Latino, usually means a person who speaks Spanish, Latinos can be Black, White and any shade in-between.

  154. 154
    Valdivia says:

    maybe too late but I do so love the New Pornographer’s music. Title for the win!

  155. 155
    amk says:

    @Veritas: you still don’t have real manly guts, no ? just like mehmney, run away when things get too hot.

  156. 156
    JCT says:

    @Veritas: More reading comprehension issues I see. My comment referred to discussions I had where *Romney* was brought up.

    How you morphed that into some general “Republicans hate the Chinese more than the Democrats” statement is unclear, but not surprising I guess.

    But I am SURE that Chinese-Americans will just love Rep James comment about “Uncle Chang”.

  157. 157
    Brian R. says:

    @Veritas:

    Leader-worship is a democrat phenomenon.

    Funny, I was just saying the same thing to my collection of various George W. Bush action figures.

    I’d love to say more, but I promised the kids we’d read up about the guy the RNC called “Ronaldus Maximus” and then go see how many of the thousands of items the Ronald Reagan Legacy Project has commissioned in His holy memory. Sure, we’ve been to the Reagan Airport, the massive Reagan Federal Building, the giant Reagan aircraft carrier, the Reagan library where GOP hopefuls come to genuflect, the various Reagan Highways, and all the rest, but I really want them to see the statue of Him made out of jellybeans.

    Yours in Reagan,
    Brian

  158. 158
    scav says:

    Veritas_chex_mix is off his script. I think he’s really worried.

  159. 159
    pk says:

    @amk:

    That’s because he is not a man. This is definitely a lovesick teenage girl.

  160. 160
    Veritas says:

    @Brian R.:

    We named all those things after Reagan because it drives liberals absolutely batshit nuts.

  161. 161
    Veritas says:

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    Zimmerman is a minority. Yes, Virginia, minorities can be racist, too, in fact, believe it or not (its true!) many hispanics don’t like black people.

  162. 162
    Brian R. says:

    I should add, thanks for reminding me of the vital work the Ronald Reagan Legacy Project does. I’ve got to follow their lead and be sure to demand that my governor issue a proclamation honoring the sainted one’s birthday next year and get a few more middle schools named in His honor.

    But you’re right — hero worship is for the dirty Demmycrats!

  163. 163
    cckids says:

    @MattF:

    Note to Republicans: They may not speak unaccented English but that doesn’t mean they’re stupid.

    No kidding. I don’t get the hating on someone with an accent. The way I see it, they know at least one more language than I do, and are making themselves understood & employable in it. I’m the one left feeling kinda dim.

  164. 164
    Veritas says:

    @Brian R.:

    All that stuff named after Reagan get you mad, bro?

  165. 165
    Brian R. says:

    @Veritas:

    We named all those things after Reagan because it drives liberals absolutely batshit nuts.

    So you’re motivated solely by spite? Good luck with that.

    Seriously, I love how much you idiots have bought the image of Reagan that you’ve created, one in which he never raised taxes, never negotiated with furriners, and just stuck solid to uncompromising conservatism. Your obsession with that myth is going to kill your party off in a matter of years.

    Keep fucking that chicken!

  166. 166
    Mino says:

    JP Morgan has closed its Vatican account. Evidently, Rome has been listed as being susceptable to money laundering. In fact, it’s been reported as the eighth most popular destination for dirty money, such as drug cartels, nowadays. Guess they are replacing the mafia of olden days with a more modern clientel.

    Kinda telling that JPMorgan is acting the purity police here.

  167. 167
    Brian R. says:

    @Veritas:

    All that stuff named after Reagan get you mad, bro?

    No, I find it sad and pathetic. If you all have to frantically race around the country forcing people to worship the man, it says a lot about how little he was loved.

    Sad and pathetic. Much like everything you’ve ever said here.

  168. 168
    Ed Drone says:

    @Veritas:

    We’re against the taxpayer funding it. Buy your own damn pills.

    Where is anyone asking the taxpayers to pay for pills? What’s asked for is that insurance cover them, and the user of the pills pays for the insurance. The meme that it’s sluts looking for free pills is a Republican’t party lie, repeated by the parrots and ditto-heads with no ability to think for themselves. It’s just like the voter-misrepresentation scenario — it doesn’t make sense in real-world terms.

    I can’t believe I responded to a fucking troll. I must be losing my grip.

    Ed

  169. 169
    Brian R. says:

    @scav:

    Veritas_chex_mix is off his script. I think he’s really worried.

    The flop sweat really is amazing.

  170. 170
    Geeno says:

    @redshirt: @AA+ Bonds: “Though I have faith, if I have not works, I am nothing”

  171. 171
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Ed Drone:

    It’s really not worth it. I’m only responding because I needed to kill some time since I’m my way to a dentist’s appointment.

    Which is paid for by insurance I get through my private employer, which apparently means that Veritas’ TAXPAYER DOLLARS are paying for today’s dental cleaning, because shut up, that’s why.

  172. 172
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @Veritas:

    Zimmerman is a minority. Yes, Virginia, minorities can be racist, too, in fact, believe it or not (its true!) many hispanics don’t like black people.

    Can you show me, where I have said that all minorities love each other or anything to that affect. In fact earlier in the thread I was questioning the demographic timer hypothesis. Lumping entire groups of people together based on their race, religion or gender, is what the GOP excels at. That’s why they thought that putting Palin on the ticket would get the support of Hillary voters.

  173. 173
    Ash Can says:

    @Brian R.: Almost as if they know full well that history won’t treat him well, and are scrambling to stave off the inevitable by (they hope) cementing (literally) a place for him in the national consciousness.

    Seriously, “Veritas” has got to be a spoof. Basically, he just wanders through the comment threads wearing a sandwich board that reads “Today’s Top Ten Reasons Conservatives Are Ridiculous.”

  174. 174
    Veritas says:

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    Many liberals do. And they’re going to be shocked when their little rainbow coalition doesn’t work out. Hispanics and blacks have no love lost for eachother. Just check out stories about southern California high schools sometime.

  175. 175
    cckids says:

    @redshirt:

    But the thought that these teams of Republican professional operatives knew what they were dealing with in Palin and yet still did everything they could do to get her into power is terrifying.

    Especially because they only seemed to see her dimness as a bad thing when she turned against them personally. Before that, it was just “oh, teach her a few lines”, and turn her loose. Short-sighted fools.

  176. 176
    Xenos says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Why is the Republican Party against married people having sex, Veritas?

    They are not opposed to all sex, just recreational sex. If you are enjoying it, you should not be doing it. Even married people.

    Yikes. When I moved out of the states I assumed my kids would move back there someday even if I did not. At the rate things are going I begin to doubt they ever will.

  177. 177
    Judas Escargot, Your Postmodern Neighbor says:

    @Mino:

    Evidently, Rome has been listed as being susceptable to money laundering.

    Some would say that John Paul I found this out the hard way…

  178. 178
    Brian R. says:

    @Ash Can:

    Almost as if they know full well that history won’t treat him well, and are scrambling to stave off the inevitable by (they hope) cementing (literally) a place for him in the national consciousness.

    It’s a genius plan. Because nothing makes a child revere an American like having that name associated with the horrors of middle school.

  179. 179
    MattMinus says:

    @Veritas:

    Really?!?!? We’re doing “U mad bro?” here now?

    http://www.reece-eu.net/galler.....eally-work

  180. 180
    samara morgan says:

    @cckids: oh, they figgered they had beaucoup time to school her if Sick Grampaw won.
    they only turned against her when she began to cost them in the polls.
    even then, they were under orders not to tell the truth until after the midterms. the GOP old white boiz used her right up to 2010– Rove only began to trash talk her right before the midterms when they had already sukked all the usefulness out of her.

  181. 181
    Valdivia says:

    @Stephanie:

    hope you see this. note that nowhere in the article does it say exactly what the head to head numbers would be if Romney picked Rubio. It only says more hispanics would vote for Romney. It says a quarter of those polled might. which means that the republicans might get 25% instead of 14%. I think the Rubio gamble would be idiotic for both Romney and Rubio. Romney because he would be using a weapon that works only with Cubans and those will vote for him already. And for Rubio because he gets a too early rollout and gets associated with a losing brand.

  182. 182
    scav says:

    @Mino: Here’s a clue from 2010 about how JP Morgan might be sensitive. Vatican bank chief investigated over money laundering claims

  183. 183
    Ed Drone says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Yeah, I agree it’s not worth it. Republican’ts seem to assume that any collective effort, even one as free-market as insurance, is somehow “social” action of the not-to-be-mentioned kind, and, thus, already part of the US government’s domination of life on earth; hence, anything of that nature is “paid for with my hard-earned taxes, dammit!” Facts be damned, they’re going to be RIGHT!

    Actually, they ARE right — right-whingers, that is. Did any political party in our nation’s history bitch and complain and whine as much as today’s Republican’ts? I guess perhaps during the Civil War, when newspapers regularly called Lincoln a “monkey,” but I’m not sure even then if it was so whiney, put-upon, and generally annoying an atmosphere as it is now.

    Ed

  184. 184
    Rafer Janders says:

    @Veritas:

    Umm, Latino isn’t a race: it’s an ethnicity and/or a cultural-langguage group. I have white, blonde, blue-eyed Latino friends (their German-Danish ancestors immigrated to Venezuela several generations ago). Hell, Louis C.K. is a Mexican, and he’s got red hair and pale freckled skin.

  185. 185
    gwangung says:

    But voter, and financial, support for Obama is huge among most Asian American voters. But you have to dig deep to find out about this.

    Well, not if you’re in the Asian American community…Heh.

  186. 186
    xian says:

    @Veritas: keep fucking that chicken

  187. 187
    wrb says:

    I’ve been wondering whether any of the crazy from the primaries will stick to Romney once the general starts. There are reasons to doubt that it will imo.
    This poll gives some hope. Romney’s big strength is that everyone knows that he’s a flip flopper and panderer. They don’t believe that he’s really for government ordered rape or that he hates latinos. This is strengthened by the negative adds his opponents are running. They are drumming the message that he is not a “real conservative” (doesn’t really believe the crazy ugly stuff) into everyone’s mind.

    So we’ll see. The Latino vote is very economy-focused. His “Obama’s had his chance, what the economy needs is someone who proven he understands it by making real” could be quite effective once it is flooding Spanish-language airwaves.

    Economic immigrants are self-selected for belief in the unfettered American dream. The US is an odd destination for those who want”sociilism.”

  188. 188
    Mino says:

    @Judas Escargot, Your Postmodern Neighbor: Holy Smokes! Never heard that tale.

    … the Masons, the Mafia, arms dealers, political kickbacks and monies funneled through the CIA to support Solidarity in Poland.

    from a fascinating artcle on the happenings:http://www.prose-n-poetry.com/display_work/10583/

  189. 189
    Emma says:

    @wrb: I don’t think this time it’s Romney so much as the whole Republican party. They have gone out of their way to infuriate latino voters. Yes, they will probably get votes, but not anywhere near as much as they need.

  190. 190
    Mino says:

    @wrb: Economic immigrants are self-selected for belief in the unfettered American dream. The US is an odd destination for those who want”sociilism.”

    That may be, but they also have the experience of right wing fascism in their homelands. They’re not gonna embrace it here.

  191. 191
    shortstop says:

    @Ash Can:

    Seriously, “Veritas” has got to be a spoof.

    If only everyone else could figure that out. I enjoy a good parody troll, and have even been a few (but not here)…but it loses its fun — except for the troll — when so many respond so very earnestly.

  192. 192
    Emma says:

    @Stephanie: Take it with a bucket of salt. It might end the romance with older Cubans and a sizable portion of the younger ones, but with the rest? Not so much. Latin Americans are a telenovela family: the infighting between branches is fierce and to the death.

  193. 193
    wrb says:

    @Mino:

    That may be, but they also have the experience of right wing fascism in their homelands. They’re not gonna embrace it here.

    True, but they’ve been subjected to all those ads from his opponents making the case that he’s only faking fascism in order to get the nom.

    I think it is possible that not much will still be stuck to his oily hide once he’s spent a few hundred million establishing his general election new self.

    People might say, “yea, of course he pandered in the primary, that is the only way a moderate could get the Republican nomination this year. It won’t effect how he governs.”

    Don’t know. We’ll see.

  194. 194
    SectarianSofa says:

    @kay:
    Real people are so complicated, in their political views! I have a friend here, Darlene, an older lady, who was sort of a wishy-washy Right-leaning Democrat-really-a-Republican until her (grown) daughter came out as gay, and then all of a sudden she was riding around with a “hate is not a family value” bumpersticker on her huge sedan.

    QFT and because I love this anecdote.

  195. 195
    Mino says:

    @wrb: I’d say, watch the money. Superpacs are peeling off to go down ballot. To me, that indicates they don’t feel he’s that hot a prospect.

    And economic immigrants aren’t fooled by smooth half-percenters. They’ve seen how the game plays out. We are just getting a taste.

  196. 196
    Tonal Crow says:

    Don’t stop the racism now, Republicans, or the lib’rals’ll rape you of the Presidency again!

  197. 197
    wrb says:

    @Mino:

    Good point. If they stay peeled once the general starts, trouble for him.

    The peeling now could be indicate either that or that they think he has it in the bag and they’ve spent too damn much on the primary already.

  198. 198
    SectarianSofa says:

    @Felinious Wench, Team Uterati:

    This is, hopefully, what turns Texas purple. I have great faith in my Hispanic neighbors to vote their anger.

    I’m hoping that soon ‘Tex-Mex’ will have a political analog that’s just as ubiquitous as the food.

  199. 199
    Ash Can says:

    @shortstop: Troll-bashing can clutter up threads, but it can also be therapeutic when you’re in a cranky mood. I don’t have strong feelings about it one way or the other.

  200. 200
    AA+ Bonds says:

    @Geeno:

    Exactly

    Republicans have been seized by New Evangelical/fundamentalist theology that explicitly states that works are not part of communion in Christ, and their policy reflects that; good Catholics are disgusted by this idea, and so you don’t have to mention religion once to point out that Republicans are anti-Catholic

  201. 201
    shortstop says:

    @Ash Can: But I’m in a cranky mood RIGHT NOW, so everyone needs to go with my feelings on this! Haw. I think I’ll go take a walk, enjoy the 79-degree sunshine and recalibrate my ‘tude.

  202. 202
    AA+ Bonds says:

    @Ash Can:

    I’m still not convinced Veritas isn’t a spoof

    LOL, gj Veri, Nothing Ever Changes

  203. 203
    staci says:

    @Egg Berry:

    Considering only 24% of the Republican populace voted, I’m not sure Mitt can take solace in this particular win.

  204. 204
    staci says:

    @beltane:

    Who is a better example of family values and “real” Americanism than the current occupants of the White House?

  205. 205
    ruemara says:

    Well, stepping away from the veritas life affirmation fun and heading back to the topic, I’m not exactly surprised. I do wonder if this is because Fox News does not have a serious, 24/7, spanish language clone. Univision et al simply are not conservative and fit more of the BET model before it dumped any news coverage at all. Not to get all predictive, but I think we will see more attempts to get into the multi-lingual propaganda in future. Not sure how they’re going to retarget the fear gun, but they will.

  206. 206
    samara morgan says:

    See what i mean about Nate?
    he just deleted this perfectly innocuous comment.

    Nate: The race will continue on until Mr. Romney clinches or everyone else quits, but the only real question is whether Mr. Romney could somehow beat himself.

    me: no, the only real question is whether Romney can get 65% of the white vote in November. Because if he cant, his electability is a lie and the base might as well vote Santorum.

  207. 207
    Xecky Gilchrist says:

    @cckids: No kidding. I don’t get the hating on someone with an accent. The way I see it, they know at least one more language than I do, and are making themselves understood & employable in it. I’m the one left feeling kinda dim.

    I totally agree, and another plus is that many accents are hawt.

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