Open Thread

Talk amongst yourselves about various and what-have-you.

Some potential topics:

Peyton Manning has decided to sign with the Denver Broncos, who will try to trade Tim Tebow. LINK

Multiple Choice Mitt bashed “the faculty lounge at Harvard” yesterday. Favorably cites Harvard prof today. LINK

It seems that Jihad and rap don’t go well together. Rapping Jihadi Now Fears Terrorist Pals Will Kill Him

Personal Observation–once President Obama began the withdrawal from Iraq, the main thing that semi-sane people loved about Ron Paul became irrelevant.  In light of this, people have started to take a look at the man.  A look that doesn’t need to be a long, hard look, btw, and have noticed that he’s BATSHIT INSANE.

Tomorrow night is the season finale for Southland.  Boo.  Hiss.

Seagate Technologies has reached areal density of 1Tb/inch for computer hard drives.  The largest hard drives available today are 3TB drives.  This new density will allow drives in the 3.5in standard format to achieve volumes of 60TB within 10 years.  It won’t really matter though, because most of you will still not back up your data regularly.  For those that do, however, that’s an epic shitload of LOLcats and Rickroll videos you’ll be hoarding.

Also too,  I have a 13-year-old daughter, so I read The Hunger Games last night.  She wants to see the movie, and had read the book for a book report at school.  I tend to think I should be involved on some level in my children’s lives, so I sat down with a copy on my B/N Nook.  I read it in one sitting.  It doesn’t suffer from cheesy writing like a lot of YA fiction.  It’s a simple read, but an engrossing story well told.  I’m looking forward to the movie, where I will doubtless drive my daughter and her friends to the theater and then sit nowhere near her because apparently having a parent is like, soooo embarrassing, dad! (eye roll)

 

 

181 replies
  1. 1
    cathyx says:

    Now you have to read the next two.

  2. 2
    Bnut says:

    I know Elway hates him, but why would the Broncos trade Tebow? It seems better to let him be tutored by the best QB of the last decade. No one thinks Manning is going to make it 5 years, so you give the kid some development time. Also, Denver better work on that shitty O-line if they want Manning to make it 5 quarters, let alone his whole contract.

  3. 3
    Brachiator says:

    It’s a simple read, but an engrossing story well told. I’m looking forward to the movie, where I will doubtless drive my daughter and her friends to the theater and then sit nowhere near her because apparently having a parent is like, soooo embarrassing, dad! (eye roll)

    Treat to a nice lunch before or a dinner afterwards.

    It won’t really matter though, because most of you will still not back up your data regularly

    Now that we have the Cloud, doesn’t this mean that we don’t have to back up anymore? Obviously kidding, but still. Backup is easy, but still not as simple as it should be.

  4. 4
    BGinCHI says:

    Sit in the back of the theater and when anything at all suspenseful happens, yell “Don’t go in there!” as loud as you can.

    Kids love that.

  5. 5
    arguingwithsignposts says:

    Asshole Michael Wolff has come out in defense of Mike Daisey.

    But, once more, the journalism world is full of great shocked handwringing at the supposed deviations of the playwright and actor Mike Daisey for how his one-man show The Agony and the Ecstasy of Steve Jobs exposed abuses at the Foxconn factories in China, where Apple produces lots of its machines. Daisey, pretty much everyone agrees, accurately characterized the conditions at Foxconn, but he did this with various “embellishments.” Perhaps worse, he “lied” to Ira Glass, the host of Chicago Public Radio’s This American Life, which made Daisey’s drama the basis of its journalistic account of the abuses at Foxconn. Journalists can be like the FBI if they catch you lying to them.
    __
    It is the literalists versus the fabulists.

  6. 6
    Baud says:

    It’s been slow as molasses today.

    The first book in the Hunger Games trilogy is the best of the three, IMHO.

  7. 7
    Brachiator says:

    It is the literalists versus the fabulists liars.

    Fixed.

  8. 8
    Rosalita says:

    I love SouthLAnd. I hope they get renewed next season and for more episodes this season blew by way too fast.

    On Twitter today Shawn Hatosy said people were walking up to him on the street and asking him if he was still alive.

  9. 9
    Soonergrunt says:

    @BGinCHI: chuckle

  10. 10
    khead says:

    SweetPea smiles at you.

    We are going to eat…

  11. 11
    Wiesman says:

    Couple things:

    On Ron Paul, I agree with you that he is BATSHIT INSANE, but I don’t think Iraq is the ONLY reason that semi-sane people liked him. There’s that debacle going on in Afghanistan too, and until we get out of there, Paul will always have a following of people who should really not like him at all.

    On the Hunger Games, book one is good. Really enjoyable. Book two is pretty good, not bad at all. Book three is Laugh Out Loud And Hope You Don’t Have a Full Mouth of Liquid or It’s Coming Out Bad. I mean, it’s really really bad. Stupidly bad.

  12. 12
    Mark S. says:

    Of course you can’t sit with her and her friends. DUH!

    Does Elway booze it a lot, or does all his weight go to his face?

  13. 13

    @Bnut: BECAUSE JOHN ELWAY HATES JEEBUS!

    Actually, its probably because Tebow sucks as a quarterback.

  14. 14
    WyldPirate says:

    I’m waiting for an Apple fanboi to come on here and tell us how Apple invented hard drives and Seagate swiped the secrets for the technology while it was hidden away for safekeeping under Job’s nutsack.

  15. 15
    arguingwithsignposts says:

    @WyldPirate:

    I’m waiting for an Apple fanboi to come on here and tell us how Apple invented hard drives and Seagate swiped the secrets for the technology while it was hidden away for safekeeping under Job’s nutsack.

    Damn, I had to delete a whole comment. FU WP!

  16. 16
    Tonal Crow says:

    For those that do, however, that’s an epic shitload of LOLcats….

    You cannot have too many LOLcats. It’s a universal law, rather like the laws of thermodynamics. And speaking of LOLcats….

  17. 17
    Brachiator says:

    @WyldPirate:

    I’m waiting for an Apple fanboi to come on here and tell us how Apple invented hard drives and Seagate swiped the secrets for the technology while it was hidden away for safekeeping under Job’s nutsack.

    There are few things dumber than these Religious Software wars. Apple, google, Microsoft. Who gives a rat’s ass?

  18. 18
    Lee says:

    I’ve got two daughters (12 & 15). The 15 year old read it year or so ago and suggested it to me telling me “this is your kind of book”.

    I was really touched that she knew me enough to suggest a book she thought I would enjoy.

    I agree, an easy read. Yet a very entertaining book. The third book is the weakest of the 3.

  19. 19
    Msskwesq says:

    My wonderful daughter, a 2006 U of Wisconsin grad, all around great girl, was laid off her job today. This is her 2nd layoff since graduation. Both employers gave her high praise and raises, but when it got down to it, profits before people ruled the day. To say that she is just totally freaked out and super discouraged it an understatement. She is still traumatized from the soul crushing job hunt the first go round, now she’s just devastated as am I for her. What’s wrong with this world anymore?

  20. 20
    Phyllis says:

    Watching Tennessee get in their own way against Middle Tennessee. Middle Tennessee is killing them in the paint.

  21. 21
    Brachiator says:

    @Msskwesq:

    My wonderful daughter, a 2006 U of Wisconsin grad, all around great girl, was laid off her job today.

    Hope she bounces back and finds something else soon.

  22. 22
    Soonergrunt says:

    @Msskwesq: She might want to look at http://www.usajobs.gov, the federal government’s job site. We’re ALWAYS hiring.

  23. 23
    cathyx says:

    @Brachiator: Sorry about your bad news. Better start clearing out your new hobby room and make it her bedroom again.

  24. 24
    Schlemizel says:

    War is not Pauls only issue. A lot of uneducated morans think that the gold standard will solve all our financial problems. While it is incredibly simple to blow that stupid nonsense out of the water many of his fanbois are too stoned . . . and Dr. Paul will make that legal so whatever gold doesn’t fix they have it covered.

    Basically Paul is a variation of Jess “The Boobie” Ventura. Since he has no idea what the f he is going to do their fanbois believe they believe exactly whatever they want them to believe.

  25. 25
    dmsilev says:

    I’m trying to decide whether to vote for Santorum in the IL primary tomorrow. On the one hand, there’s something to be said for helping the freak show continue on for another few episodes. On the other hand, I’m not sure I could look at myself in the mirror after voting for Frothy.

  26. 26
    Roger Moore says:

    @Brachiator:

    Now that we have the Cloud, doesn’t this mean that we don’t have to back up anymore?

    Do you have a network connection that will let you back up 60TB of data within a reasonable time? Let’s assume you get screaming fast 100 Mb/s uploads, which is much, much faster than most people today have (3 Mb/s is still considered a fast upload on cable). That’s 12.5 MB/s, which means about 5 million seconds, or something on the order of 8 weeks, to upload 60 TB.

    That assumes your network provider doesn’t mind you using your link at 100% capacity for weeks at a time. Most providers have de facto bandwidth caps of a few tens to hundreds of GB per month. Getting the backup onto the cloud is one of the big things that’s held me back from trying this.

  27. 27
    The Dangerman says:

    Congrats to Broncos fans, but if I had just picked up a QB that missed an entire season for something that just might end his career with one nasty hit, I’d consider keeping Tebow. Dudes probably a career backup, but a halfway decent backup isn’t a bad thing to have when halfway decent backups are starting in some locales (read: Cmon, Seahawks, Tavaris Jackson AND Matt Flynn? WTF?)

  28. 28
    Msskwesq says:

    Thanks all for your kind words regarding my daughters layoff. We use to live in DC and she loves it there, so she may just try for a government job. We are now in Chicago. I have high hopes for her, but her hurting is do hard for me to witness…

  29. 29
    Schlemizel says:

    @Brachiator:
    My two youngest just graduated. The daughter is marginally employed so we are doing ‘part pay’ for crap like auto insurance. The boy is still stuck with a student type job but is sharing an apartment with like 6 other people so he is not 100% on our tab. We need to get the GD GOP out of power soon.

    It has to get better soon

  30. 30
    Baud says:

    @dmsilev: I never gotten behind the idea of voting in the Republican primary. I’d just as soon cast my primary vote for Obama to show support even though the Dem primary is uncontested.

  31. 31
    Roger Moore says:

    @Bnut:

    I know Elway hates him, but why would the Broncos trade Tebow?

    Because he’s a bad quarterback and unlikely to get a lot better. His mechanics suck, his release is incredibly slow, and he doesn’t seem to have much skill at reading defenses. Also, too, he’s stubborn about wanting to run a lot rather than learn how to be a classic pocket passer. As a Broncos fan, I’m glad to see their brain trust doesn’t seem to have fallen for Tebowmania and are taking advantage of the opportunity to move him while his value is as high as its ever likely to be.

  32. 32
    efgoldman says:

    Wicked bad Spring fever today. Mid-70s, bright sunshine, gentle breeze. Whole week, here in RI, is going to be like that. But there’s no climate change, and Al Gore is fat.

  33. 33
    scott (the other one) says:

    It doesn’t suffer from cheesy writing like a lot of YA fiction.

    Sounds like you’ve been reading the wrong YA (until now).

  34. 34
    Tonal Crow says:

    Re Tebow: “War on Christians” chants from the teatards in 5…4…3….

  35. 35
    dmsilev says:

    @Baud: I’m leaning in that direction. I think I’d rather cast a vote that reflects what I actually want instead of one that’s for shits and giggles.

  36. 36
    Mark S. says:

    @The Dangerman:

    I don’t think the offense they’re going to run with Manning is going to be very Tebow-friendly.

  37. 37
    Tonal Crow says:

    @Tonal Crow: Darn, LOLcat link borked. Try this one.

  38. 38
    New Yorker says:

    @Msskwesq:

    Welcome to my world. I’ve had 2 periods of 1+ year unemployment in the past decade (both times when graduating into a recession), and I experienced my first time being laid off a few months ago. I’ve had a number of interviews but no offer yet.

    The worst thing about the job hunt is realizing how worthless other people consider you to be. Case in point: a recruiter just blew off a phone interview I had scheduled last week. No call, no e-mail to re-schedule or tell me the position has been filled. Hasn’t responded to my calls and e-mails asking what happened.

    I don’t have kids or a mortgage, so I guess I’ve got that going for me, but I really, really hope that I’m dealing with the worst economy of my lifetime and that it’s all uphill from here.

  39. 39
    Geoduck says:

    @BGinCHI:

    Sit in the back of the theater and when anything at all suspenseful happens, yell “Don’t go in there!” as loud as you can.
    Kids love that.

    Also be sure to wear a baseball cap backwards when you’re picking up her friends.

  40. 40
    Roger Moore says:

    @Brachiator:

    There are few things dumber than these Religious Software wars. Apple, google, Microsoft. Who gives a rat’s ass?

    But how about the real Religious wars? Do you prefer vi or EMACS?

  41. 41
    cathyx says:

    I don’t have kids or a mortgage, so I guess I’ve got that going for me, but I really, really hope that I’m dealing with the worst economy of my lifetime and that it’s all uphill from here.

    Is going uphill good and downhill bad? But going uphill is more difficult than going downhill, so I never know which one is a better outlook.

  42. 42
    Baud says:

    @Roger Moore:

    Do you prefer vi or EMACS?

    Shit just got real…

  43. 43
    JWL says:

    “I know Elway hates him, but why would the Broncos trade Tebow? It seems better to let him be tutored by the best QB of the last decade”.

    T-Bo could be “tutored” from now until doomsday by every All-Pro QB that will ever enter the NFL’s heavenly choir, and it would prove an exercise in futility.

    Elway doesn’t hate T-Bo. Elway does, however, know the score.

  44. 44
    Legalize says:

    Excited about 4 Ohio teams in the sweet 16. Stayed up too late last night to watch the black and blue game between Cincy and Florida State. Glad to see that Mick Cronin has those guys playing mercilous defense like the old days. The Walking Dead finale was a nice thrill ride – cant wait for The Governor next season! Also, too, we’re thinking about turning on the ac tonight. Sheesh. Sitting around on the patio in shorts and flip flops, enjoying a cold, in March, while enjoyable, is weird.

  45. 45
    scav says:

    @Baud:

    @Roger Moore: Do you prefer vi or EMACS?

    @<a href="#comment-3119784"
    absolute hush

  46. 46
    Paula says:

    @scott (the other one):

    I, for one, am pretty incensed at the beating YA fiction is taking just because of Twilight.

    The Hunger Games trilogy is good — not particularly elegantly written, but still good. I thought the first book was weakest thematically, but, yes, more exciting and easier to read than the 2nd and 3rd.

    Even better are Madeleine L’Engle, Katherine Paterson, Walter Dean Myers, Avi, Cynthia Voight, Judy Blume, Lois Lowry, Robert Cormier, etc.

  47. 47
    Roger Moore says:

    @scav:
    You’re supposed to say “Neither! Real programmers use ed!”

  48. 48
    Mark S. says:

    Racist who sells “Re-Nig” bumper sticker insists N-word isn’t racist.

    Also, she has “an affable disposition and a hearty laugh” even while using racist language, and considers herself multiracial like the President due to her French, Scottish, and German ancestry.

  49. 49
    JGabriel says:

    Soonergrunt @ Top:

    … because apparently having a parent is like, soooo embarrassing, dad!

    To be fair, the concept that (generic) you come from a guy and a chick through a process where his dick ejaculates fertilizer onto her egg where it sits in her womb percolating for nine months before spitting you out … well, it’s hardly dignifying.

    .

  50. 50
    red dog says:

    I must be the only old fart with no teenage kids on here so…Southland is the only well written cop show and I hate to see it hibernate, plus Timmy T was never a QB so Denver got a win win.

  51. 51
    David Koch says:

    Free Market says Tebow is only worth a lowly 5th round pick.

    Such a disgraceful and disrespectful treatment of a true Christian is only further evidence of Obama’s war on religion.

  52. 52
    Yevgraf says:

    Backing up data is gay.

    I fear no crashes…

  53. 53
    David Koch says:

    @Mark S.:

    Racist who sells “Re-Nig” bumper sticker insists N-word isn’t racist.

    Maybe he has a point. Some people says minstrel man sambo blackface also too isn’t racist.

  54. 54
    New Yorker says:

    @cathyx:

    Uphill is good, in the sense that good economic indicators usually slope upward in graph form. Case in point:

    http://www.calculatedriskblog......-jobs.html

    Interesting that the Kenyan Marxist who wants to destroy America has presided over far better private sector job creation than his predecessor.

  55. 55
    scav says:

    @Roger Moore: and code in assembler. Not being real myself, I can still remember odd bits of troff –ms codes at inopportune moments, encountered yes, in vi. I beg coder absolution in that I was producing text at the time and thus belong to a different heritage and tribe.

  56. 56
    Satanicpanic says:

    Funniest thing I read today-
    “You may not like my ideas, but at least I put ideas out there,” Romney said.

  57. 57
    Mark S. says:

    @Satanicpanic:

    Mitt puts so many ideas out there, it’s hardly surprising that a lot of them contradict each other.

  58. 58
    David Koch says:

    Personal Observation—once President Obama began the withdrawal from Iraq, the main thing that semi-sane people loved about Ron Paul became irrelevant.

    Soonergrunt,

    are you saying Cenk and Glenn aren’t sane because of their support of Run Pole?

    How dare you!

  59. 59
    WyldPirate says:

    @Schlemizel:

    It has to get better soon

    Unfortunately, it doesn’t have to get better soon for everyone. For the vast majority of peoply, it hasn’t gotten better WRT pay and benefits. In fact, it has pretty much done the opposite over the last 30 or so years.

    OTOH, I have been told my glass is usually half empty.

    I guess I need a drink so I can get to +3 so I won’t give a fuck.

  60. 60
    Carnacki says:

    The correct pronunciation of Santorum is San-tor-ect-um

  61. 61
    gogol's wife says:

    @arguingwithsignposts:

    Is there anyone more worthless than Michael Wolff?

  62. 62
    Satanicpanic says:

    @Mark S.: He’s not even the most prolific. That title goes to Newt, now there’s a guy with a lot of ideas. Almost all of them bad.

  63. 63
    JGabriel says:

    @Mark S.:

    Mitt puts so many ideas out there, it’s hardly surprising that a lot of them contradict each other.

    Mitt likes to let his ideas roam free, gang up on each other, and bet $10k on the outcome.

    .

  64. 64
    Soonergrunt says:

    @David Koch: I didn’t actually say those particular things.

  65. 65
    Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason says:

    @New Yorker:

    I really, really hope that I’m dealing with the worst economy of my lifetime and that it’s all uphill from here.

    Gee, I thought that when I graduated with a BS in 1973 and an MS in 1981. Took me a year to get a job the first time and about 6 months the second. This economy is much worse – I hope I can keep the job I have.

  66. 66
    scav says:

    @Satanicpanic: Actually, some of the ideas they’ve put out are more out there than others, but I wouldn’t venture to suggest any single candidate has the unquestioned lead there either.

  67. 67
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @gogol’s wife: Tagg Romney?

  68. 68
    Joel says:

    Romney also went to the Harvard well quite a bit as Governor of Massachusetts. The guy is so transparent, it’s scary.

    Word on the street is that the… Patriots (?) might trade for Tebow. Leaves me conficted.

  69. 69
    Roger Moore says:

    @JGabriel:

    Mitt likes to let his ideas roam free,

    Which is why he gets so upset when reality starts to fence them in. Why do we have to let good ideas be shot down by boring old facts?

  70. 70
    Elizabelle says:

    @ Soonergrunt:

    I remember my dad reading “Sweet Savage Love” (bodice-ripper; paperback found in my possession at beach) a few years after 13.

    In one sitting, out in a beach chair. He never said a word about it.

    To my knowledge, no movie has been made.

    You got off lightly.

  71. 71
    jl says:

    “allow drives … to achieve volumes of 60TB within 10 years.”

    We may be able to store full size high res pics of Tunch!

    Unimaginable. Like science fiction in real life.

  72. 72
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    Banner ad for me now on the page is about learning “biblical Hebrew” online.

    Say what?

  73. 73
    Linnaeus says:

    Can’t believe it’s this warm, this late in the day, this early in the year in the Midwest. What the hell?

  74. 74
    Yutsano says:

    @The Dangerman:

    (read: Cmon, Seahawks, Tavaris Jackson AND Matt Flynn? WTF?)

    Carroll is looking for lightning to strike twice. The last time we dug into the well behind a Green Bay star we got Hasslesack. Who, on the whole, wasn’t too terrible. And T-Mac just can’t really get it together enough to carry a whole season. And Whitehurst is Whitehurst. Shorter me: not expecting much come August.

  75. 75
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @gogol’s wife:

    Is there anyone more worthless than Michael Wolff?

    The entire fucking Village.

    For starters.

  76. 76

    And to back up Dougj’s post yesterday on why many of the winger branetrust are scared of a Santorum candidate for president.

    quoted, National Journal by Rick Santorum

    “I don’t care what the unemployment rate’s going to be. Doesn’t matter to me. My campaign doesn’t hinge on unemployment rates and growth rates. It’s something more foundational that’s going on.”

    Now there’s a winner in 2012

  77. 77
    Jimbo316 says:

    Got the 13 year old daughter too and it’s okay that you are the chauffeur sans livery for endless soccer practice shuttles and girl gang school and other events but..oh yes…please do not sit with the posse during the movies. :)

  78. 78
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @The Dangerman: Speaking as a Green Bay fan, you guys got yourselves a decent starter. Flynn will do alright.

  79. 79

    Peyton Manning has decided to sign with the Denver Broncos, who will try to trade Tim Tebow.

    Yes and everyone in Tennessee has a huge SAD especially since our state legislature last week passed a resolution ordering him to come to the Titans (in between votes about Agenda 21 and some other wingnutty bs) but the REAL news is that our hockey team is bringing back Alexander Radulov.

    Now THAT is some news, people.

  80. 80
    Winston Smith says:

    I liked the Hunger Games better when it was called Battle Royale.

  81. 81
  82. 82
    BethanyAnne says:

    /sigh. I have to put my cat down tomorrow or Wednesday. It’ll depend on how Suli shuts down.

  83. 83
    El Tiburon says:

    Also too, I have a 13-year-old daughter, so I read The Hunger Games last night.

    Sigh. Please, you don’t have to hide behind your daughter. You wanted to read the book so you read it. Also and this if you want to play with the Easy Bake Oven, play with the oven.

    Post pics plz.

  84. 84
    RalfW says:

    A friend in Texas said this evening that a new Facebook ad is up encouraging people to go to school for “the growing field of ultrasound operators.”

    I shouldn’t be shocked by opportunism as women’s health is further politicized, but ugh.

  85. 85
    Liberty60 says:

    For some reason our Occupy group has had a pestering swarm of Paul fanbois cluttering up the FB page. I keep seeing the occasional Paul bumpersticker at rallies.

    I think they think that somehow the kewl anarchist pose struck by Paul will somehow fool people into thinking he is a progressive or something.

    Trouble is, I have seen a few who were.

  86. 86
    BethanyAnne says:

    Photos from 2 weeks ago. http://flic.kr/p/bEraux

  87. 87
    Studly Pantload, the emotionally unavailable unicorn says:

    I’m digging that the odds makers, who were giving the Broncos 70:1 odds of reaching the Super Bowl a month ago, now have ’em at 10:1. And while I’ll always savor that OT win against the Steelers, I’m just not gonna miss the hot & cold performances of Sideshow Tebow.

  88. 88
    Jacel says:

    When I first heard there was a young adult novel called “Hunger Games”, I assumed it was about bulimia. Now that I know more of what the premise is, I’m surprised that a Google search on “hunger games” “military draft” turned up just about nothing connecting those dots. The late Vietnam-era draft — now THAT was a life-and-death lottery!

  89. 89
    Elizabelle says:

    @Baud:

    FWIW, I had a hoot voting for Ron Paul in the GOP primary to stick a pin in Romney.

    Spring is not November.

  90. 90
    Amanda in the South Bay says:

    @Roger Moore:
    nano

  91. 91
    Yutsano says:

    @BethanyAnne: Much peace unto you during this difficult time. And you will know when it’s time to do the right thing.

  92. 92
    Soonergrunt says:

    @El Tiburon: I could never get that damn oven to work right. The cakes would always come out hard around the edges, and gloopy in the middle.
    What was your secret?

  93. 93
    lamh35 says:

    @Elizabelle: OMG!!! No you didn’t. I swear to you that is the first “trashy romance” novel I ever read. It started my love affair with trashy romances. Some years ago, I tried to find a copy of that book and I read it as an adult and OMG was it bad…lol. Trashy Romance novels have come a long way..

  94. 94
    Baud says:

    @Elizabelle: I know, I’m no fun.

  95. 95
    jl says:

    @Soonergrunt:

    ” The cakes would always come out hard around the edges, and gloopy in the middle. ”

    And the problem with that is…? They are better that way, at least for fressing.

  96. 96
    maye says:

    Re jobs… this site is a great tool for PR/communications and public affairs types:
    http://publicaffairsjobs.blogspot.com/

  97. 97
    JoyfulA says:

    @BethanyAnne: Lovely Suli. That will break your heart. We lost our 20-year-old dearie last month and are now catless.

  98. 98
    Comrade Scrutinizer says:

    @Winston Smith: This indicates ignorance of both Battle Royale and Hunger Games.

  99. 99
    Jimbo316 says:

    @Msskwesq: The 1 percenters and their political servants are determined to crush our children’s hopes for the future for the sake of their greed and lust for power. Our country has seriously gone astray.

  100. 100
    Elizabelle says:

    @BethanyAnne:

    Beautiful cat, BethanyAnne. I am so sorry.

  101. 101
    Soonergrunt says:

    @Jacel: Probably because there is no connection, except the one that you just came up with?

  102. 102
    Soonergrunt says:

    @jl: “fressing”?

  103. 103
    Recall says:

    Personal Observation—once President Obama began the withdrawal from Iraq, the main thing that semi-sane people loved about Ron Paul became irrelevant. In light of this, people have started to take a look at the man. A look that doesn’t need to be a long, hard look, btw, and have noticed that he’s BATSHIT INSANE.

    Being antiwar will always be relevent.

  104. 104
    Bruce S says:

    Is anyone here involved in anti-foreclosure actions at the local level?

  105. 105
    scav says:

    I’m trying to warp my brain into a space where it could even possibly be persuaded by a Jewish Man from Massachusetts and a Christian Woman from California that the Greatest Threat to One Man One Woman Marriage is Mitt Romney.

    I may need to stop throwing myself on the grenade and keeping the roboline occupied in order to save another voter in IL from the damn thing.

  106. 106
    Elizabelle says:

    @lamh35:

    Yes. It was the communal copy of SSL, and very glad the dad returned it. Whoever was next in line woulda been ticked.

    There have been quite a few “romance” and mystery novels set in the bayou state. Unlike, say, Oklahoma or the Dakotas.

  107. 107
    cckids says:

    @Paula: I agree. Twilight sucks with the power of a million Kirbys.

    Kudos to your list. I’d add Garth Nix’s Sabriel series, David Eddings Belgariad & Mallorian (sp?), Jim Butcher’s Codex Alera, & most anything by Robin McKinley, most especially Sunshine. Ray & Constantine wipe Bella & Edward off the f*cking map.

  108. 108
    Ash Can says:

    @BethanyAnne: What a fine kitty. Condolences to you at this very difficult time.

  109. 109
    khead says:

    @BethanyAnne:

    I’m so sorry. Wish I could do something, anything….

  110. 110
    Maude says:

    @Soonergrunt:
    Remember how the cakes tasted?
    They were great.

  111. 111
    cckids says:

    @Elizabelle:

    I remember my dad reading “Sweet Savage Love” (bodice-ripper; paperback found in my possession at beach) a few years after 13.

    In one sitting, out in a beach chair. He never said a word about it.

    Having read that myself in my teens, all I can contribute is : wow. Just wow. Dad & that book? Does not compute!

  112. 112
    Schlemizel says:

    @Carnacki:
    I thought it was Sanctorum (Latin for Holiest) but it also works for a mash up of his name with sanctimonious. Either works for me

  113. 113
    mainmati says:

    @Southern Beale: Washington Skinless fans are also massively disappointed that they must continue to limp along with Rex Intercepto and John Beckoning-but-not-providing. They were hoping for the elder Manning.

    Oh well, my hometown is Pittsburgh so we have the always injured behemoth Ben Ruthlesshamburger for another year.

  114. 114
    jl says:

    @Soonergrunt:

    ‘Fressing’ is a word adapted from German for mindless ingesting mass quantities, as our All American precious youth and he-men do, or should do.

    As I remember from my childhood, the main problem with those baking toys was that they did not make enough.

    Perhaps my memory is clouded, and I would try to recreate some of that great Easy Bakery product that I fondly remember, but I am too lazy. And I have plenty of money for Hostess and TastyKake.

    Note to self: stop by that store that stocks krimpets later tonight.

  115. 115
    RSA says:

    @Roger Moore:

    Do you prefer vi or EMACS?

    Sadly, whenever I ask my undergrad computer science students, “Who uses Emacs? vi?” only a few raise their hands, maybe 10%. Me, I switched from vi to Emacs in college, around 1984 or ’85, and haven’t used anything else since. Not that it’s the best thing around, I’m sure, but I’m used to it.

  116. 116
    cckids says:

    @BethanyAnne: So sorry to hear this. Suli is gorgeous.

  117. 117
    Schlemizel says:

    @Soonergrunt:

    Its German for eating but in a really impolite way. A human would essen a pig would fressen.

  118. 118
    grandpa john says:

    @red dog: Not really, Hell I don ‘t even have teenage grand kids anymore

  119. 119
    Lojasmo says:

    @WyldPirate:

    How about a “fuck you”? No waiting!

  120. 120
    ruemara says:

    @BethanyAnne: I am so sorry. My condolences. Suli is a lovely kitty.

    Hm. Domestic Partner with 4 years and counting of unemployment, me at 10+ years out from full time with a salary over $20k, house now up for short sale, beater car I was graciously gifted with 5 years ago now sitting in my driveway needing anywhere from $100 to $250 in repairs, no reserves and wondering what to do with…everything. I win! What do I get in these Hunger Games?

  121. 121
    kc says:

    Huh. My parents never read my books. Not that I would have wanted them to. I wouldn’t have particularly cared if they DID, I just didn’t care period. My fiction was the portal to my personal fantasy life. I didn’t need to have my parents involved in that.

    Of course back in MY day there wasn’t so much societal pressure for parents to give a shit what their kids were up to so long as we weren’t getting pregnant or arrested.

    Now, I DID sneak-read some of my mom’s trashy paperbacks . . .

    In conclusion, get off my lawn, you damn kids!

  122. 122
    b-psycho says:

    Personal Observation—once President Obama began the withdrawal from Iraq, the main thing that semi-sane people loved about Ron Paul became irrelevant.

    Wow, Obama called for a global drawdown of the empire & deep slashing of the military budget simultaneously with the Iraq withdrawal? How did I miss this news?

    It wasn’t just Iraq. Imperialism is unsustainable. That the mainstream Left constantly forgets about this whenever a Democrat is in office doesn’t cease to be disgusting because Ron Paul is a nut on other issues.

  123. 123
    Schlemizel says:

    @Jimbo316:
    Took the kids to the Pledge Of Allegiance Tour When I thought they were too young to be let loose in those conditions without me at least in the area.

    I agreed they could sit with their friends & I would sit in a place where they could find me if needed. Ended up sitting with a couple of other parents & having a pretty good time. I brought ear plugs (hey I’m not stupid!) I actually enjoyed a couple of groups. Ramstein lead singer came out totally on fire – very cool & the music was not impossible to enjoy.

  124. 124
    Soonergrunt says:

    @Schlemizel: ahhh. No wonder I wasn’t familiar with it. FSM help me but given the context “hard on the edges, gloopy in the middle” the idea flashed through my mind that “fressen” referred to something “American Pie”-ish.
    Ewwwww.

  125. 125
    kc says:

    @Elizabelle:

    Elizabelle, ha! That was one of my mom’s trashy books that I sneakily read.

  126. 126
    Baud says:

    Rachel is doing a big special tonight on the Obama administration’s progress on recovering nuclear material from other countries. So clearly that means that the GOP will come out tomorrow in favor of sending nuclear material other countries.

  127. 127
    kc says:

    @BethanyAnne:

    Aww. So sorry.

  128. 128
    Soonergrunt says:

    @b-psycho: Go back and re-read your post there.
    And then rethink your handle. It’s a bit too apropos.

  129. 129
    jl says:

    @Soonergrunt:

    ” the idea flashed through my mind that “fressen” referred to something “American Pie”-ish.
    Ewwwww. ”

    Yuk. You have destroyed the precious tykehood memories of Easy Bake. Shame shame shame.

    Edit: you live in OK? Aren’t minds like yours outlawed there by now?

  130. 130
    amk says:

    mehmney raised 11.5 mil in feb. One fourth of Obama. And yet msm pigs aren’t squealing.

  131. 131
    BethanyAnne says:

    Thank you all. She seems comfy right now, and that’s good. I got her and her sister heating pads for Christmas and she’s hanging out on hers.

  132. 132
    befuggled says:

    @RSA: Infidel.

  133. 133
    Soonergrunt says:

    @jl:

    Yuk. You have destroyed the precious tykehood memories of Easy Bake. Shame shame shame.

    I’m here to serve.

  134. 134
    Laertes says:

    So I visited RedState for my daily dose of schadenfreude. I don’t suppose I ever noticed this before, but the tab in my browser has their logo and the tab header “Conservative Blog & Conservative News Source for Right of Center Activists.”

    Fair enough. Truth in labeling, and all that.

    And I notice up near the top, below a red banner ad for a book about Ronald Reagan and above RedState’s large red logo, a few nav buttons: “Conservative News, Books, and Views”, “Conservative Book Club”, and “Regnery Books.” All in all, the word “Conservative” appears eighteen times on the front page.

    It got me to wondering. Over at DailyKos, the word “Liberal” appears zero times, but “Progressive” is more fashionable these days. That word appears four times, though two of those references are the name of an insurance company.

    So what I’m wondering is: Why do conservatives need such prominent signals that they’re among their own and won’t be confronted with unwelcome views?

    If someone offered me a link to “Liberal Books” I’d be turned off. Nobody does this, so I expect I’m not the only one.

    This question remains even if you don’t believe that Conservatives are more prone to epistemic closure. On the contrary: It’s even more interesting in that case. Suppose, arguendo, that Liberals are as clannish and hostile to outsiders as Conservatives. Why, in that case, are Liberals embarrassed by their clannish instincts, while Conservatives positively revel in theirs?

  135. 135
    CaseyL says:

    @BethanyAnne: I’m so sorry. She’s beautiful, and whatever hit her must’ve come on fast, leaving you no time to prepare. Not that there’s ever enough time, really.

  136. 136
    Marcellus Shale, Public Dick says:

    i got lured in for an ad for nook e-books, it wasn’t what i thought it would be.

    tebow fans, the 25% give or take of the nfl draw, go figure, are now referring to him as seyton manning.

  137. 137
    Nenevah says:

    @b-psycho:

    Wow, Obama called for a global drawdown of the empire & deep slashing of the military budget simultaneously with the Iraq withdrawal? How did I miss this news?

    Doesn’t need to. For many, Iraq was symbolism of bloated military budgets, the MIC and the imperial attitude. With it over, many forgot about it- nothing to remind them of it.

  138. 138

    @Baud: WAR. Get some. Bitchez.

  139. 139
    nevsky42 says:

    Well, just finished my first runthrough of Mass Effect 3…now just have to see the other fifteen or so endings…

  140. 140

    @El Tiburon:

    Also and this if you want to play with the Easy Bake Oven, play with the oven.

    I feel so much better knowing that there are .. others .. like me.

  141. 141
    BethanyAnne says:

    @nevsky42: lol, when you find them, let me know.

  142. 142
    N W Barcus says:

    I just wish somebody could tell us which PCs and other gadgets aren’t made at FoxConn so we could make informed decisions. (Dell, HP, Microsoft (Xbox), Asus, among many others, outsource manufacturing to FoxConn. In fact there was a recent mass suicide threat among the Xbox workers.) But it looks like none of the haters can see past Apple to giving us useful advice.

  143. 143
    Soonergrunt says:

    @BruceFromOhio: Let’s keep that on the down-low. Just because ET up there can’t keep a secret, doesn’t mean we MUST let the rest of the world in on it.

  144. 144
    Mnemosyne says:

    @BethanyAnne:

    The best advice our vet gave us when our Tashi had cancer was that as long as she still had the most basic functions (eating, drinking, peeing, pooping) and wanted to be around us, she still had good quality of life and we didn’t have to rush into anything. If she stopped one of the basic functions and/or started hiding, we would know it was time.

  145. 145
    Rita R. says:

    Sooner, the way you and Martin and some of the other dads here talk about your daughters really warms my heart. Fathers today are so much more aware of how important their attention, approval and support is to their girls. You’re such a key part of them growing up to be strong, self-confident women. As a member of the uterati, I salute you. :)

  146. 146

    @Laertes:

    Suppose, arguendo, that Liberals are as clannish and hostile to outsiders as Conservatives. Why, in that case, are Liberals embarrassed by their clannish instincts, while Conservatives positively revel in theirs?

    Interesting supposition. I interpret it instead as “constant reinforcement because you lost your fucking mind and can’t hold a pattern of thought together for the span of page load” versus “I know what the fuck I’m doing, what else is going on?”

  147. 147
    danielx says:

    Soonergrunt:

    When in public, you are an embarrassment to your daughter simply by being above ground and breathing, let alone visible to her friends. Never mind, it’ll only be five or six years and then all will be good.

    @Bnut:

    Why? Because Tebow may be all christian and shit, but that doesn’t mean he wants to play rhythm to Manning’s lead after having been #1. Conversely, Manning is not inclined to let anybody else take so much as a practice snap if he’s healthy – trust me, he’s got an ego and justifiably so. He sure as shit isn’t going to go through a quarterback controversy after all the drama here in my fair city in the last few weeks. Plus which I’ve heard they’re talking about 90 mil over four years; they can’t afford to keep Tebow and Manning both on the payroll. You’re right about that offensive line though – one bad hit and Peyton is the highest paid quadriplegic in NFL history. I wish he’d retired – he could go to work immediately as a QB coach for any NFL team and stay healthy a lot longer. I’m sure that Tebow would agree with me…heh.

  148. 148
    Smedley the uncertain says:

    @Bnut: Good thinking…

  149. 149

    @Soonergrunt: Sigh. I used to alternate between the vanilla cake and the cornbread recipes, just to keep it fresh. Good times.

    … and always use the 100-watters like it says in the directions. The 60- and 75-ers just don’t cut it, you need the full-strength shit to get the job *done.*

  150. 150
    BethanyAnne says:

    @Mnemosyne: Yeah, that’s good. Suli has stopped drinking. Her kidneys started failing about a year and a half ago. We’ve been taking her to the vet 3x a week for subcutaneous fluids, sorta kitty dialysis. This weekend she mostly stopped drinking, and started peeing where she was, rather than making it to the litter box. Talked to the vet Friday and today, and he says its time. So, probably within the next day or so, it will be time. I don’t want her to suffer, but she still seems mostly happy, just very calm. Just every couple of hours, she goes to a water bowl, yowls at it, and goes back to a sleep spot.

  151. 151
    Smedley the uncertain says:

    @Tonal Crow: What! I get a 404 on the link? LOLCats are not found….

    Say it isn’t so.

  152. 152
    Soonergrunt says:

    @Rita R.: Thanks.
    Daughters and sons are different, but you want the same thing for them. I want both of my children to be smart, well educated, decent people who serve their fellow human beings with integrity and humility. I want them both to find mates worthy of them, for whom in turn they will seek to be worthy themselves.

  153. 153
    Soonergrunt says:

    @danielx:

    When in public, you are an embarrassment to your daughter simply by being above ground and breathing, let alone visible to her friends. Never mind, it’ll only be five or six years and then all will be good.

    It was never like that with my boy. He’s 17 now, and we have some of the old fathers and sons issues, but he’s a good boy and we mostly get along. My daughter, though–I don’t think I could’ve done well if I had to deal with all the shit that junior high girls put each other through.
    And if that little girl rolls her eyes at her mother again, I’m pretty sure I won’t be able to protect her.

  154. 154
    MattR says:

    I am hoping the NFL Store will allow me to buy a customized #18 Broncos jersey with the name “Thank God” (“Not Tebow” is my fallback). If Peyton Manning gets hurt and never play a down for the Broncos, his signing will still be a brilliant move if it allows Denver to get rid of Tebow.

  155. 155
    Gravenstone says:

    As found on the Facebook, Knit a uterus for a Congressman in need.

    Might’ve been posted elsewhere, but thought it might fit in with this crowd.

  156. 156
    muddy says:

    @BethanyAnne: My Fionn, of the love story of last week, also had kidney failure. My vet said that they don’t suffer, it’s not painful. I took him to be euthanized though because a previous cat had died at home from it. When they said she wasn’t suffering I thought she would rather just stay home. She didn’t seem to suffer, but I really did. She got so still, and I kept checking for a heartbeat. The other animals kept checking her too, sniffing gently, she ignored them. Then they stopped, they knew before I did. At the end I was using a stethoscope, I was terrified that I would wrap her up too soon.

    I probably could have stretched out Fionn’s time a little while longer, but it would be the same in the end, and I knew I could not go through that another time. At least when you bring them, you are prepared and know when the end will be.

    I don’t guess it mattered to the cat, but it mattered for my peace of mind. I feel for you, I am filled with tears remembering how it was. Take care, be well.

  157. 157

    @BethanyAnne: I’m so very sorry. It’s never easy, though we know it’s the right thing. They leave such big paw prints on our hearts.

  158. 158
    El Tiburon says:

    @Soonergrunt
    What was your secret

    My sassy little pink apron.

  159. 159
    danielx says:

    @Soonergrunt:

    Oh, I’m with you – aside from the embarrassment aspect, my daughter and I get along pretty well and have done for a long time. She and her mother on the other hand have gone at each other hammer and tongs, which I’m told is not at all uncommon.

    I suspect fathers worry more about girls, though, knowing of the possibility that a daughter may encounter someone just…like…them. Which for a lot of guys is a truly appalling thought.

  160. 160
  161. 161
    muddy says:

    @lamh35: About damn time.

  162. 162
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @muddy: I wish we could be as merciful to our human loved ones as we are to our four-legged ones.

  163. 163
    Brachiator says:

    @Roger Moore:

    Do you have a network connection that will let you back up 60TB of data within a reasonable time?

    I was kidding somewhat, but I find this crossroads very interesting. Backup media is increasing in size tremendously (not sure about reliability). And as far as I am concerned, every PC, laptop, tablet and whatever should come with USB 3.0 and or Thunderbolt, period. At the same time, people want to stream more stuff, so the Telcos and media companies need to recognize that they can make more money finding ways accommodating demand than throttling it (insert scorpion and frog reference here, cause media companies and Telcos refuse to learn). Services like iTunes Match and Amazon and google equivalents are smart because they are based on the idea that they don’t have to store all your specific music and movie crap as long as they can let you reproduce your purchases from a common catalog.

    This leaves all the specific, individual crap that people think is important. I am betting that accommodation in the Cloud can be made for more of this stuff than people realize. Even stuff that is idiosyncratic junk. But right now it is interesting to see the pressure of demand hitting the resistance of media and Internet companies who are so stuck on old models that they don’t even try to innovate.

  164. 164
    muddy says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Me too. I have been involved with the Death with Dignity bill in this stste.

  165. 165
    Yutsano says:

    @Soonergrunt: Got it covered.

    PS she’s 48.

  166. 166
    pragmatism says:

    I consider the tebow exodus to be victory. I just hope it’s not VICTORY

  167. 167
    Brachiator says:

    @Soonergrunt:

    Daughters and sons are different

    Perhaps less than you think. One of my best friends had a daughter from a first marriage, and a son from his second marriage. He really wanted a son and was convinced that the boy would be a chip off the old block. But there was a time when his daughter was a pre teen, and I had to take my friend aside and point out that his daughter was exactly like him in terms of her drive, her curiosity and many of her interests (he was a top sales rep and was incredibly honest and customer focused). And, in some ways, his daughter had his back more than anyone. His son, by contrast, was spoiled by his over indulgent mother. Things were coming to a head because his first wife was having some difficulties and wanted to give up custody of the daughter. On the other side, his current wife hated both the old wife and the daughter.

    Bottom line is that my friend listened to me and not only took his daughter in, but sheltered her from the worst crap that his wife threw out. He later divorced the wife and his son resentfully took his mother’s side. But his daughter grew up free of resentments, and, a chip off the old block, is a VP of Sales for a big ass local company.

  168. 168
    Roger Moore says:

    @Brachiator:
    A huge part of the problem is that local connections are always going to be a ton faster than internet connections no matter what the technology. It takes me a few hours to backup my hard drive right now, and that’s to a local drive. If I tried to do it over the network, it would take days if not weeks. Admittedly, that’s a full backup rather than an incremental one, so I would probably be OK backup the stuff up to the cloud once I got through the initial transfer. At least until I get the next big data generator, like a HD video camera or even the D800 I’ve been thinking about.

    There’s also some question about security and confidentiality of data. Maybe I’m just paranoid, but I don’t like the idea of putting my data out on the cloud where anyone could read it. I use whole disk encryption on my computer and my backups, and I even write the disks with random data before I start to make things that much harder. Until somebody can come up with a transparent encryption system so that plaintext never leaves my computer, I’m going to be reluctant to put anything out there on the cloud.

  169. 169
    b-psycho says:

    @Soonergrunt: I’ve had that “handle” online for over a decade.

  170. 170
    Anne Laurie says:

    @khead: I remember your story about turning Sweet Pea into an Indoor Cat. And from this picture, the only one more pleased with the results of that ‘experiment’ than you… is Sweet Pea!

  171. 171
    Anne Laurie says:

    @efgoldman:

    Wicked bad Spring hay fever today.

    Fixed that for conditions north of Boston. Right now I hate trees, second only to our godsdamned little rescue dogs, because their version of Spring fever has them alternating between yapping & sparring with each other & I already had a sinus headache…

  172. 172
    Anne Laurie says:

    @BethanyAnne: Condolences — Suli is a beautiful cat. When we were playing that particular waiting game with our little dog Candy, our vet said he’d actually asked several humans with failing kidneys how they felt. They all said it wasn’t painful — they just lost interest in eating and wanted to sleep more & more of the time. Subcuteanous hydration doesn’t work with dogs, and we didn’t want Candy to suffer just because we dreaded missing her. But she let us know when she was ready, and I hope Suli will signal you as clearly…

  173. 173

    @David Koch:

    Free Market says Tebow is only worth a lowly 5th round pick.

    A 5 for a guy who will never be able to throw the out, who might, maybe, be able to transition to tight end or, what, fullback? I don’t see it.

  174. 174
    Winston Smith says:

    @Comrade Scrutinizer:

    This indicates ignorance of both Battle Royale and Hunger Games.

    Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.

  175. 175
    BethanyAnne says:

    @Anne Laurie: That really describes how she seems to be experiencing the past couple of days. Thanks again everyone.

  176. 176
    samara morgan says:

    Peyton Manning has decided to sign with the Denver Broncos, who will try to trade Tim Tebow.

    you heard it here first last month.
    Inshallah Tebow goes to Alabama where he belongs.

    It seems that Jihad and rap don’t go well together. Rapping Jihadi Now Fears Terrorist Pals Will Kill Him

    Sooner lets lose his inner JAFI. I knew it was just a matter of time.
    rap and hiphop are anti-authoritarian, not anti-jihaad.
    I wrote a paper on the globalization of hiphop.
    who’s the terrorist? by Palestinian rappers DAM

  177. 177
    samara morgan says:

    @Bnut: a lot of people here hate Tebow.
    Denver isnt Jeebus Country.

  178. 178
    samara morgan says:

    who’s the terrorist seems pretty relevent in the light of Bales, all american boi. Two foreclosures, four terms of duty, failing marriage, investment scam.

    He also faced a number of problems in recent years: Florida investment job went sour, his Seattle-area home was condemned as he struggled to make payments on another, and he failed to get a recent promotion. He also still faces a $1.5 million securities fraud judgment from 2003.
    __
    The National Association of Securities Dealers found that Bales, another man and his company “engaged in fraud, breach of fiduciary duty, churning, unauthorized trading and unsuitable investments.”

  179. 179
    Joe K says:

    @Baud #6:

    Yes the first HG book is the best, but IMO the most gut-wrenching moment in the whole series comes early in book 2.

    Also too, after “Winter’s Bone” I will happily watch Jeniffer Lawrence in anything.

  180. 180
    samara morgan says:

    @samara morgan: hahaha
    the bankstah warrior.
    proud of that Sooner?

  181. 181

    For those that do, however, that’s an epic shitload of LOLcats and Rickroll videos you’ll be hoarding.

    Since I am aware of all internet traditions, I feel I should point out that a “Rickroll” video is a video of Rick Astley’s “Never Going To Give You up”, and the only people stupid enough to have an epic shitload of Rickroll videos would be people… stupid enough to keep getting Rickrolled.

    Um.

    Never mind. Carry on.

    (BTW: hard drive prices are still sky high after the flooding in Thailand – lots of disks are (well, “were”, and I assume “will be again”) made in Thailand. They’ll come down, eventually. Think, $60 for 750gb – that’s what they were before the flooding. So, hold off if you can.)

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