Maybe You Should Have Asked Some Women

Hilarious:

Gov. Robert F. McDonnell is backing off his unconditional support for a bill requiring women to have an ultrasound before an abortion, focusing new attention on one of the most controversial pieces of legislation in Virginia’s General Assembly this year.

Until this weekend, McDonnell (R) and his aides had said the governor would sign the measure if it made it to his desk. McDonnell, who strongly opposes abortion, will no longer make that commitment.

But delegates and governor’s staff were scheduled to meet Tuesday night to strike a compromise after learning that some ultrasounds could be more invasive than first thought, according to two officials who were aware of the meeting but not authorized to speak about it publicly. Many of the bill’s supporters were apparently unaware of how invasive the procedure could be, one of the officials added.

Imagine that. Here are the chief sponsors of the bill in the Virginia Senate:

Jill Holtzman Vogel (chief patron)
Ralph K. Smith (chief co-patron)
Richard H. Black
Charles W. Carrico, Sr.
Charles J. Colgan
Thomas A. Garrett
Ryan T. McDougle
Jeffrey L. McWaters
Stephen D. Newman
Phillip P. Puckett
Frank M. Ruff, Jr.
William M. Stanley, Jr.

Here is the list for the House sponsors:

Kathy J. Byron (chief patron)
David B. Albo
Richard L. Anderson
Richard P. Bell
Robert B. Bell
Benjamin L. Cline
Mark L. Cole
Anne B. Crockett-Stark
L. Mark Dudenhefer
C. Matt Fariss
T. Scott Garrett
Chris T. Head
Gordon C. Helsel, Jr.
Riley E. Ingram
Joseph P. Johnson, Jr.
L. Scott Lingamfelter
Daniel W. Marshall, III
Robert G. Marshall
James P. “Jimmie” Massie, III
Rick L. Morris
Israel D. O’Quinn
Brenda L. Pogge
Charles D. Poindexter
Lacey E. Putney
Margaret B. Ransone
Nick Rush
Tony O. Wilt

Does something stand out about those lists of names to you? And again, let’s review what the bill does:

The ultrasound legislation would require women to undergo a test to determine the gestation age of the fetus, hear the heartbeat and be given an opportunity to see the images.

A woman who refuses to look at the ultrasound would have to sign a statement, which along with a print of the image would become part of her medical file.

The bill also would require women who live within 100 miles of their abortion provider to wait at least 24 hours before having the procedure, except in emergencies. Those who live farther would have to wait two hours.

Supporters of the ultrasound measure say it would provide crucial medical information to women seeking abortions; opponents say it would subject women to unnecessary tests and invade their privacy.

It is unclear whether insurance companies would cover the procedure.

Basically, you have a sausage-fest of obnoxious old men with nothing better to do than fuck with women simply because they can. That’s all this bill does. It won’t provide any additional information, it serves no medical purpose. It’s simply a way to screw with women who want to have an abortion. That’s why people who live 99 miles away have to wait 24 hours, but people who live 101 miles away only have to wait two hours. What changes in that two mile stretch? Nothing. It’s just a totally arbitrary way to fuck with women who want to control their own lives. That is all this bill does. It will save no lives, it will just make life miserable for some women who really just need to be left alone by the state. That’s all these assholes are doing.

Because Jeebus told them to.

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131 replies
  1. 1
    Tone In DC says:

    McDonnell is a pox on the whole area’s houses.

    I hope he has his “macaca” moment soon, I have even less use for him and Cuccinelli (sp) than I did for George Allen Jr.

  2. 2
    Carnacki says:

    They’re all for smaller government with fewer regulations too. Do you know what else is unnecessarily involved with the vagina? Douche bags like these

  3. 3
    Nutella says:

    A woman who refuses to look at the ultrasound would have to sign a statement, which along with a print of the image would become part of her medical file.

    So her failure to cooperate fully in the celebration of her rape important medical test would go on her permanent record? Sounds like a threat from the junior assistant principal to a misbehaving 11-year old.

  4. 4
    dollared says:

    John, you’re just not going to win the civility award.

  5. 5
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    Jesus needs to go have a talk with his brother Jeebus, maybe slap him around a bit.

  6. 6
    Lee says:

    I just read the bill, how does it require the ultrasound to be transvaginal?

    From what I remember with my 2 kids a regular ultrasound (and for sure a level 2 ultrasound) can determine all of the items listed in the bill.

  7. 7
    Rick Massimo says:

    If they hate women too much to even speak to them, they could’ve asked a doctor …

    P.S.:

    A woman who refuses to look at the ultrasound would have to sign a statement, which along with a print of the image would become part of her medical file.

    Which is nothing to worry about, because no one sees that except you and your doctor …

  8. 8
    eemom says:

    McDonnell doesn’t want the crazies to fuck up his chances of becoming Mitt’s running mate. End of story.

  9. 9
    Cassidy says:

    1) They knew it was invasive. They wouldn’t have sponsored it if otherwise. It was about punishing women. Lying fuckers.

    2)

    Because Jeebus told them to.

    This. The sooner this religion dies the better.

  10. 10
    beltane says:

    But look, the chief patron of the bill is a woman. Presumably Kathy J. Byron would have no problem undergoing a pelvic exam on the state house floor, conducted by a panel of experts in front of her fellow legislators, in order to prove that there is no sign of prior sluttiness in her reproductive organs.

  11. 11
    trollhattan says:

    Okay, so their compromise is any abortion-seeking woman must do a hundred pushups before the procedure. And not girlie knee-down pushups, either.

    Oh yeah, and recite the 2nd Amendment.

  12. 12
    Raven says:

    I suspect these fossil’s have like-minded hags waiting at home for them.

  13. 13
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    It’s simply a way to screw with women who want to have an abortion.

    The sluts must, must, MUST be punished. They must. Jeebus demands it. Punish the sluts!

  14. 14
    beltane says:

    @Tone In DC: In order to have a “maccaca” moment, McDonnell would have to be an actual human. So far, I have seen no evidence of this.

  15. 15
    nellcote says:

    When opponants of the bill go on teevee they should take an ultrasound “wand” to wave around. Considering the vast ignorance on the subject, I’m sure people don’t even know what the thing looks like.

  16. 16
    Mouse Tolliver says:

    Many of the bill’s supporters were apparently unaware of how invasive the procedure could be, one of the officials added.

    This is bullshit. Bob Marshall was on Jennifer Granholm’s show on Current TV, and he defended the state mandated rape law using the “once penetrated, always penetrated” defense. He said that since a woman agreed to be penetrated during an abortion she should have no trouble accepting a separate and totally unnecessary reaming from the state.

  17. 17
    PeakVT says:

    What stands out is that there are women sponsoring the POS. Apparently their empathy gene is missing.

  18. 18
    makewi says:

    What Happens During an In-Clinic Abortion?

    It’s common for women to be nervous about having an abortion — or any other medical procedure. But most of us feel better if we know what to expect. Your health care provider will talk with you and answer your questions. But here’s a general idea of how it works and what to expect.

    Before the abortion procedure, you will need to
    discuss your options
    talk about your medical history
    have laboratory tests
    have a physical exam — which may include an ultrasound
    read and sign papers

    Source

    Guess Jesus works at an abortion clinic then. Right John?

  19. 19
    Marcellus Shale, Public Dick says:

    transvaginal ultrasounds still needs to be the name of a band.

  20. 20
    PurpleGirl says:

    @Lee: Because in the early months the fetus is so small it can’t be imaged by a procedure outside the body. When the fetus is so small the probe has to be closer to the object.

    And most abortions are done in the first three months. When the collection of cells is less than 2 inches long.

  21. 21
    Ken says:

    Does something stand out about those lists of names to you?

    Yeah. There must be some interesting history behind “Israel D. O’Quinn”.

    But not quite interesting enough to make me look him up…

  22. 22
    BGinCHI says:

    Well, if “Israel O’Quinn” signed on, then it must be legit.

    Where the fuck do they get these people?

  23. 23
    dmsilev says:

    @Lee: The issue, so to speak, is that the great majority of abortions occur (unsurprisingly) in the earliest months of pregnancy, when the fetus is a tiny little thing weighing an ounce or less. A normal abdominal ultrasound can’t resolve detail under those circumstances.

    Since the bill authors were mainly interested in punishing women who had the effrontery to desire an abortion, a normal ultrasound wouldn’t be suitable.

  24. 24
    Andrew says:

    You have a few extra words in this post:

    Basically, you have a sausage-fest of obnoxious old men with nothing better to do than fuck with women simply because they can. That’s all this bill does. It won’t provide any additional information, it serves no medical purpose. It’s simply a way to screw with women who want to have an abortion. That’s why people who live 99 miles away have to wait 24 hours, but people who live 101 miles away only have to wait two hours. What changes in that two mile stretch? Nothing. It’s just a totally arbitrary way to fuck with women who want to control their own lives.

  25. 25
    BGinCHI says:

    @Ken: GMTA!

  26. 26
    Stooleo says:

    Jesus hates fornicators..

  27. 27
    beltane says:

    Here is Kathy Byron’s FB page http://www.facebook.com/pages/.....4952164908

    Why doesn’t she provide the public with her detailed obstetric history?

  28. 28
    Lee says:

    @PurpleGirl:

    Gotcha. Did not think of that. I wonder if a Level 2 (or whatever they are called now) would work without it being transvaginal.

  29. 29
    Rafer Janders says:

    Supporters of the ultrasound measure say it would provide crucial medical information to women seeking abortions;

    Mainly, that they’re pregnant. Which, you know, I think most women who want an abortion already know.

    I mean, seriously, what information is an ultrasound going to provide them that they didn’t already know? “Dear god, that’s a fetus up in there! I thought I was aborting a weeks old pot roast that hadn’t properly digested!”

  30. 30
    scav says:

    Spell-check moment: they didn’t know the size of the polls (not poles) that would be involved. For one, the Poles probably can be legitimately forgotten.

  31. 31
    Stooleo says:

    @beltane:
    Are you suggesting George Allen is human?

  32. 32
    dmsilev says:

    @makewi: The difference between consenting to an exam and being required by state law to undergo the same procedure apparently escapes you.

    That word ‘consent’ is important.

  33. 33
    beltane says:

    @PeakVT: Mean girls will be mean girls.

  34. 34
    Ken says:

    Great minds think alike! But I assure everyone that BGinCHI and I are not sitting in the same room (though if CHI is Chicago, we may be within a hundred miles of each other).

  35. 35
    Svensker says:

    @makewi:

    See, makewi, the difference between your doctor/clinic saying you need an exam for medical reasons and the fucking government saying you are required to have an exam for ???? reasons is…let me see. Hmmmm. What is the difference? What could it be?

    Edited for clarity. smooch

  36. 36
    Mouse Tolliver says:

    There’s an easy fix for this law. Just give a moral conviction waver to doctors who oppose rape.

  37. 37
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    @makewi: Way to totally miss the “invasive” part the law requires. It’s not just an ultrasound, where they put some jelly on your belly and slide a computer mouse around on it. It’s sticking a police baton up your vagina.

  38. 38

    What the fuck do they think an ultrasound is?

    Yeah, maybe they should have asked some women. Jesus.

    In other news, y’all have heard of Tennessee’s “Don’t Say Gay” bill, right? Now we have the (satirical) “Don’t Say Stacey” bill, named for our homophobic state senator Stacey Campfield. It’s pretty funny.

  39. 39
    beltane says:

    @Stooleo: George Allen is too dumb to be a robot or a companion animal so I guess we’ll have to claim him as human.

  40. 40
    FuriousPhil says:

    The anti-choice/pro-lifer strategy is: we can’t get THE LAW allowing abortion overturned (at least not until we stack SCOTUS) so we’ll just place more restrictions and harassment measures on this legal procedure. If they haven’t reached the tipping point where enough people just tell them to fuck off and mind their own business, we’re getting closer to it every day.

  41. 41
    Drive-By Nomad says:

    Wait til he’s the VEEP pick and his 1989 Master’s Thesis of Misogyny entitled “The Republican Party’s Vision for the Family” gets another look-see by 53% of the electorate.

    Guy’s toast.

  42. 42
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @makewi:

    You really are a cretinous git, did you know that?

    This legislation MANDATES a specific procedure in order to punish women, without regard to any medical necessity at all. It in fact overrides the professional opinion of the physician in favor of the punishment regimen of the slut shamers.

  43. 43
    Ken says:

    @dmsilev: Say, have any doctors expressed an opinion of this legislation? Because it occurs to me that requiring them to perform an unnecessary medical procedure might conflict with their medical oaths, their licenses, and their insurance coverage. It might even (gasp!) be against their religious beliefs and a violation of their First Amendment rights!

  44. 44

    Supporters of the ultrasound measure say it would provide crucial medical information to women seeking abortions….

    Such as … ???

    The ONLY “crucial medical information” it could possible provide is the information that a woman or the fetus are not healthy enough to go full-term. Which might not matter, since you’re at a fucking abortion clinic, hello.

    FAIL.

  45. 45
    Legalize says:

    have a physical exam — which may include an ultrasound

    Do you comprehend the difference between a physical exam ordered by one’s doctor in advance of a medical procedure that “MAY” include an ultrasound, and the state mandating that one SHALL have an ultrasound, dip shit?

  46. 46
    BGinCHI says:

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent): The troll doesn’t acknowledge the courage of any convictions, he/she just avoids the truth of the matter.

    And there you have today’s GOP.

  47. 47
    PurpleGirl says:

    Potentially not work safe, a series of sonograms, drawings and pictures found by Googling Transvaginal Ultrasound.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=transvaginal+ultrasound&hl=en&prmd=imvnsu&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=oWJFT9XhEoHv0gGL-r3qAw&sqi=2&ved=0CFAQsAQ&biw=1095&bih=592

  48. 48
    kay says:

    What I love about panicked politically motivated walk-backs by ambitious Republicans is how they leave all the paid hacks who defended this just hanging out there, exposed, as he runs away.

    They’ll defend anything.

    They’re ALL to the Right of this Right wing governor, I guess.

  49. 49
    DanielX says:

    Shorter Bob McDonnell: Okay, let’s throw this dead cat into somebody else’s back yard right the fuck now, because it’s really starting to stink.

  50. 50
    scav says:

    @BGinCHI: mqkewi’s just expressing her/his/its unique and self-confessed love of humanity by shoving medically unnecessary shit up women’s privates. Unlike [typo correct] the moral degenerates who assume women have brains and moral agency.

  51. 51
    Nutella says:

    @Ken:

    I did look up O’Quinn. He’s new so his record isn’t very long but get a load of the laws he’s been voting on here. Total wingnut.

  52. 52
    JCT says:

    @nellcote: Actually — I wouldn’t be surprised if the “cutaway” diagrams of the wand in place that have been popping up besides much of the news coverage of this fucked up piece of legislation helped make these old male douchebags a bit squeamish.

  53. 53
    BGinCHI says:

    @Nutella: Plus he was in Slytherin in prep school.

  54. 54
    arguingwithsignposts says:

    Fuck these fucking mutherfuckers. where’s my moore award?

  55. 55
    dr. luba says:

    @PurpleGirl: “Because in the early months the fetus is so small it can’t be imaged by a procedure outside the body. When the fetus is so small the probe has to be closer to the object.

    “And most abortions are done in the first three months. When the collection of cells is less than 2 inches long.”

    Actually, with a good ultrasound machine, you can usually see enough detail (heart motion, size) to establish dates and viability abdominally. (This may not be true for obese patients.) I’ve done lots of these ultrasounds. But you can’t get pretty, detailed pictures, and it might be hard to get a good audio heart sound.

    Patients usually won’t complain if the ultrasound is begin done for medical reasons. But, as noted, this is about forcing them to view the “baby” and hear its heartbeat so they will reconsider their evil ways and choose not to abort. So, yeah, slut shaming.

  56. 56
    Brachiator says:

    OK. Lots of smart Balloon Juicers here. I need to all to explain something to me. The Republicans want to kill health care reform. But they want to make an unnecesary medical procedure mandatory. And who’s paying for this?

    Or look at it this way. The GOP hates the notion of an individual mandate. But they would mandate that women have a dubious and invasive practices forced upon them.

    Bonus question. How come the guys who get women pregnant are not forced to view the ultra sound pictures? Not even husbands? Why not granparents, the family dog, and six strangers brought in off the street?

  57. 57
    Punchy says:

    A woman who refuses to look at the ultrasound would have to sign a statement

    The clown content of this bill is finally coming to light. Will the doctor be forced to hold her eyelids open, to ensure she doesn’t blink and miss the grey blob on the screen?

  58. 58
    Thoughtcrime says:

    No one could anticipate creeps getting slapped after overreaching into women’s privates.

  59. 59
    Tone In DC says:

    @beltane:

    LULz.

  60. 60
    Redshift says:

    @FuriousPhil:

    The anti-choice/pro-lifer strategy is: we can’t get THE LAW allowing abortion overturned (at least not until we stack SCOTUS) so we’ll just place more restrictions and harassment measures on this legal procedure. If they haven’t reached the tipping point where enough people just tell them to fuck off and mind their own business, we’re getting closer to it every day.

    Just like their strategy on immigration. They aren’t allowed to outlaw brown people living near them any more, so they pass “papers please” laws that are intended to make life so unpleasant for them that they “self-deport” to another state, at least.

  61. 61
    Maude says:

    @arguingwithsignposts:
    You didn’t get it? I put it in the mail.

  62. 62
    Ruckus says:

    Because Jeebus told them to.

    Actually, even as an atheist, I’d bet all the money you have that he didn’t. They just think he did. They’ve never heard or understood one thing or idea that jeebus is supposed to have said or espoused. I will accept that may have been your point in the first place.

  63. 63
    Starfish says:

    @Lee: Most abortions happen before 12 weeks of pregnancy. Between six and twelve weeks, typically you use the transvaginal ultrasound to detect the heartbeat because it is easier to see visually than it is to detect audibly with the device that can cancel out the mother’s heartbeat and detect the infant’s heartbeat.

    ETA: By easier, I mean that you can’t cancel out the mom’s heartbeat to hear the infant’s because the infant’s heartbeat is below the noise threshold of all the other stuff going on.

  64. 64
    scav says:

    @Brachiator: Insurance companies might refuse to pay, in which case the slut has to fork over. Making the process shaming, necessarily complex and expensive means the slut will do as she’s supposed to do. If the insurance company does pay, there are still all the other hurdles. And paragraph/question 2 assumes they have any interest whatsoever in being coherent or logical. That ship done sailed a long time ago. Last para? Don’t give them ideas.

  65. 65
    Cassidy says:

    Makewi know’s what this was about. Despite the evidence, it isn’t that dumb. Cowardly shitstain is simply flinging poo.

  66. 66
    PurpleGirl says:

    @Brachiator:

    (1) I’m assuming that the woman would have to pay as part of theinterview and other tests that may be part of the pre-abortion doctor/clinic visit. I don’t believe I’ve read anyone say who pays for it.

    (2) It’s slut shaming and punishment. A way to returning to the 1950s.

    (3) Please don’t bring up having the father (or grandparents or other relatives) view the ultrasound; in some cases that could open up a can of worms if the father doesn’t want the abortion done but doesn’t want to support the eventually baby.

  67. 67
    Democratic Nihilist, Keeper Of Party Purity says:

    But they want to make an unnecesary medical procedure mandatory. And who’s paying for this?

    Extra bonus – the patient. And insurance won’t cover that, sorry, your cost to get an abortion just doubled.

    Slut punishers indeed.

  68. 68
    General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero) says:

    @Brachiator:

    Best I can figure, the wingnuts are juggling so many lemons these days, they can’t keep track of how their talking points and hopes and dreams meld together into some kind of sane narrative. They used to could do this well enough, when trying to get elected. I think Obama and the tea party has made them break their concentration, and we get what we have. A hydra head of contraindication and sheer comic stupid.

  69. 69
    trollhattan says:

    @Cassidy:

    Cowardly shitstain is simply flinging poo.

    And running. Don’t forget the running bit.

  70. 70
    Drive-By Nomad says:

    @Brachiator:

    Simple: Republicans are evil fucking lunatics whose only emotions are 1) consuming hatred for all living things and 2) politically-expedient love for a couple of cells in a Petri dish.

  71. 71
    WJS says:

    @Brachiator:

    The Republicans want to kill health care reform. But they want to make an unnecesary medical procedure mandatory. And who’s paying for this?

    The only tax dollar worth spending is the dollar that might make a woman not abort her baby. And, after the baby is born, not one thin dime can be spent to make sure that the child makes it to adulthood.

    It’s all about the bootstraps. If you weren’t smart enough to be born with ones you can pull up yourself, you are clearly a poor person who is that way because Satan thinks you’ll make a wonderful sinner.

  72. 72
    tulip says:

    Well don’t blame McDonnell he’s just doing what an asshole like him is going to do… maybe those two fucking useless pieces of shit Kathy and Jill should never have co-sponsored, excuse me patroned, such a disgusting piece of legislature in the first place. They knew EXACTLY what was involved. I hope there is a special place in the hell that they believe in that those two get paid back tenfold.

  73. 73
    Cermet says:

    @Ken: There is this minor, irrelevant oath they take – “First, do no harm” How they square that with an unnecessary procedure that can (and is meant to) do harm is a gross violation of that oath. Funny how no MD’s are pointing out that little fact … wait, these people are first and foremost worthy about getting paid. Now if that was compromised, you’d hear a hollowing like no tomorrow.

  74. 74
    Redshift says:

    The thing that really weirds me out is that I knew Rob Bell back when he was just out of college, before he went into politics. I don’t know what the hell happened to him.

  75. 75
    Thymezone says:

    @makewi:

    I’m sold. I am getting an ultrasound as soon as possible. My only request is that you personally insert the probe. I’ll show you where.

  76. 76
    amy c says:

    My first pregnancy ultrasound was at 9 weeks, and happily, nobody had to shove anything into my vag. A regular ultrasound did the trick. BUT, all of the baby books and websites warned me that any time before 12 weeks would be fair game for the wand. I thought this was common knowledge among anyone who has carried a child in the past 10 years – but I look at that list and OH YEAH, A BUNCH OF MEN, never mind.

    I live in Virginia and in fact have a nice state government job…which I’m leaving in 2 weeks. A lot of factors went into this life decision, but a serious reluctance to work for Governor Bob, even at seventy levels removed from him, is on the list for sure.

  77. 77
    Cermet says:

    By the way -as writen and as copied in some posts, the law requires the biological father to sign off on the abortion before it can be done (note the wording about the father.) So if the woman is married and raped, the husband has no say but the rapist must ok the procedure … ditto if she is unmarried and raped; again, the rapist can force her to carry the fetus to term…

  78. 78
    Democratic Nihilist, Keeper Of Party Purity says:

    Wait til he’s the VEEP pick and his 1989 Master’s Thesis of Misogyny entitled “The Republican Party’s Vision for the Family” gets another look-see by 53% of the electorate.

    @Drive-By Nomad: Epic. Everyone should read that, the slobbering deference to his authority figures is truly something to behold.

  79. 79
    Patricia Kayden says:

    So when will women get the memo and stop voting for “obnoxious old men”? This is what you get when you vote for Repubs.

  80. 80
    PTirebiter says:

    According to Chunky Ross, this is just one more example of the Right helping liberals achieve their stated goal of making abortion safe, legal and rare. He points out that statistically speaking, wing nuts are better at making it rare than their contraception loving counterparts.

  81. 81
    anaboly says:

    The 100 mile limit, with a cursory glance at abortion providers (which may or may not be accurate) in Virginia, covers the WHOLE state except for the little slab between Tennessee and Kentucky.

  82. 82
    makewi says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    When planned parenthood does it – it’s for medical reasons, but when the state requires the same thing it’s for punishment purposes even when they say it’s for medical reasons.

    Conspiracy much?

  83. 83
    Frank says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Amen. It reminds me of Ohio where one of the unions endorsed a Republican.

  84. 84
    trollhattan says:

    @makewi:

    even when they say it’s for medical reasons.

    Think we’ve found your problem right there, Skippy. We can tent and fumigate, then afterwards you’ll need to replace all the rotted wood.

  85. 85
    makewi says:

    OTOOH – It’s nice that we finally found a government mandated health care situation you guys are against.

  86. 86
    Hungry Joe says:

    Supporters of the ultrasound measure say it would provide crucial medical information to women seeking abortions

    Doesn’t a doctor decide what “crucial medical information” a patient needs? But then, maybe everybody who voted for the bill is an OB/GYN, in which case, my bad.

  87. 87
    Thymezone says:

    @makewi:

    Can you name the other medical procedures that are required by VA state law, even when a patient and doctor don’t want to perform the procedures?

    Use both sides of the paper if you run out of room.

  88. 88
    Biscuits says:

    I’d like to suggest that the women on this list submit themselves for this procedure for the purpose of enlightenment of their male colleagues. It’s the only way to be sure.

  89. 89
    makewi says:

    @Thymezone:

    Fail. Planned Parenthood does want to perform this. It’s right there on their website under what to expect. Try again.

  90. 90
    Riilism says:

    It is my understanding (from Maddow?) that we can thank Justice Kennedy for these new abortion “education” laws since he felt it was very important that woman truly understand what they are seeking when they happen to randomly stumble into an abortion clinic while out for their morning stroll. I believe Kennedy is of the opinion that a great many women know less about abortion and it’s effects than he does and thus has green-lighted state sponsored “education” (someone else will have to cite Kennedy’s opinion and case) which, not surprisingly, has been used as a means of coercion and punishment against those seeking to exercise their constitutional rights.

    Also, this nonsense about what it says on a PP website. As I read it, the website is informing women what to expect, i.e., some states have mandated ultrasounds regardless of their medical necessity, so you “may” expect an ultrasound. That is hardly an endorsement nor is it a statement about the medical necessity. It is simply a statement about the facts as they exist in our country where Kennedy is a SCJ.

    Also, as I understand it (again, Maddow?), Texas’ law was very similar to VA, and it was in fact doctors who challenged it….

  91. 91
    Thymezone says:

    @makewi:

    Nope. Your own cited material says that the exam “may” include an ultrasound. It’s discretionary, obviously.

    What other discretionary medical procedures are required by VA state law?

  92. 92
    Drive-By Nomad says:

    @Democratic Nihilist, Keeper Of Party Purity:

    It also brings up harrowing memories of college with a typewriter, but that’s OT, except to say that I’m still a kickass typist and if the vile misogynist pig McDonnell gets the VP nod, I’ll have a fully text-searchable version of that baby on the intertubes on no time flat.

  93. 93
    trollhattan says:

    @Thymezone:

    Maybe there can be a Virginny law stating that massages must include “happy ending.”

  94. 94
    Thymezone says:

    @trollhattan:

    Well, if there isn’t, there should be.

  95. 95
    harlana says:

    The Queen of Hyperbole says: i will not be able to refer to these people as anything other than “these people”. this blatant conspiracy to take us back to the 19th century, all it’s co-conspirators.

    “Those People”

    they want to make Obama “The Other,” they want to spit on good people who just so happen to be able to think for themselves, those who want to punish women for being human beings, who want to take away all our rights and to eventually destroy us.

    Damn you all to the Hell you consign us to. May the Righteous shun you as “The Other,” the very Enemy of God.

    you will come begging to us for our protection when all your cruel, sadistic, malevolent plans go awry.

  96. 96
    Thymezone says:

    The next Virginia state law will require that spermicidal jelly only be used after each sperm is given a blindfold and offered a cigarette before execution.

  97. 97
    Joel says:

    The GOP tried to insulate themselves from criticism by having female sponsors in both chambers. Not that it would work, because it’s the content of the bill that is fucking rotten. I think that pointing out the male-ness of their sponsorship is a losing strategy, anyways. Focus on the content.

  98. 98
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @makewi:

    You remain a cretin.

  99. 99

    @makewi:

    discuss your options
    talk about your medical history
    have laboratory tests
    have a physical exam — which may include an ultrasound
    read and sign papers

    Source

    Guess Jesus works at an abortion clinic then. Right John?

    I’m sick and tired of people who are too fucking stupid to do their own fucking research opining on this. If you’re too fucking stupid to research an issue, then *shut the fuck up*.

    The Virginia bill requires an ultrasound that is able to obtain higher definition of the developing fetus than is possible for an abdominal ultrasound prior to about 12 weeks. So, for women who are having early term abortions, they will need a transvaginal ultrasound.

    An abortion provider may need to provide an ultrasound on the abdomen as part of pre-procedure screening as well. But this is not the same invasive procedure that the Virginia legislature is demanding.

    Trying to equate the two is either extremely dishonest, or flat out fucking stone stupid.

    Since this story has been going around for a while, I personally think it’s both – I think anyone who hasn’t bothered to learn the facts is both dishonest *and* stupid. Dishonest for hiding the truth – stupid for thinking they’re not going to be caught trying to do so.

    But, if they’re just too fucking stupid to do their own research, that’s fine too.

    (NB: Block quoting isn’t working right – my words start with “I’m sick and tired…”)

  100. 100
    makewi says:

    @Thymezone:

    Sure, you guys are all for mandates that require people give away their labor. It’s just the ones that might help to protect the health of a woman about to have an abortion that you are against.

  101. 101
    Svensker says:

    @LongHairedWeirdo:

    No, because if your doctor says you hafta before the abortion it’s the same thing as the government saying you hafta. See?

    I don’t get why no one but makewi understand this? Bueller?

  102. 102
    makewi says:

    @LongHairedWeirdo:

    The law does not specify a requirement of a transvaginal ultrasound. Speaking of dishonest and stupid as you were.

  103. 103
    makewi says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    This hurts coming from you.

  104. 104
    gwangung says:

    @makewi: Dishonest.

  105. 105
    Frank says:

    @makewi:

    It’s just the ones that might help to protect the health of a woman about to have an abortion that you are against.

    Shouldn’t you ask the woman if she wants it first? You people on the extreme right always claim that you are against the evil big government and tyranny etc etc.

    Yet in Virginia it is EXACTLY the evil big government and tyranny forcing the individual woman to have an intrusive procedure whether she wants to or not.

    Hell, is there any difference between Virginia and Iran on this issue?

  106. 106
    debbie says:

    @ dr. luba:

    Patients usually won’t complain if the ultrasound is begin done for medical reasons.

    I had a transvaginal ultrasound for other reasons. Maybe because I was expecting the other kind of ultrasound, I wasn’t prepared and the procedure wasn’t particularly comfortable. I think it would seem more so if a woman was under stress and dealing with the decision to have an abortion. It seems to me that, if the doctor maneuvers the probe the way they did for me, there could be a risk of the egg/embryo detaching.

  107. 107
    Cassidy says:

    Sure, you guys are all for mandates that require people give away their labor.

    Strawman. Debate fail. Too stupid to talk.

  108. 108
    Thymezone says:

    @makewi:

    Aside from the fact that your assertion is just silly, it’s also irrelevant. Unless you want to argue that mandated car insurance, or a tuneup required before issuing a car registration, is the equivalent of mandated shoving of something up your hoo-hah.

  109. 109
    Brachiator says:

    @General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero):

    I think Obama and the tea party has made them break their concentration, and we get what we have. A hydra head of contraindication and sheer comic stupid.

    Good answers one and all. Obviously, my questions were more rhetorical than looking for any rational explanation of GOP motives. The sad thing, though, is that this is more than comic stupid. The Republicans seem to believe that women will simply lie back and submit to this invasion not only of their privacy, but their physical being.

    @WJS:

    It’s all about the bootstraps. If you weren’t smart enough to be born with ones you can pull up yourself, you are clearly a poor person who is that way because Satan thinks you’ll make a wonderful sinner.

    This affects middle class women as well as poor women. I assume that the affluent would have power and influence to ignore this asinine rules, but the intent is to make all women submissive, compliant wives of the state.

    I would not be surprised if next the GOP mandated virginity tests.

  110. 110
    Riilism says:

    @makewi: Just because the mendacious purveyors of such laws choose to remain ignorant of or actively choose to ignore (or actually applaud) the practical impacts of said laws, does not mean that the rest of us have the luxury to do so….

  111. 111

    @makewi:

    The law does not specify a requirement of a transvaginal ultrasound. Speaking of dishonest and stupid as you were.

    Here’s what I said:

    The Virginia bill requires an ultrasound that is able to obtain higher definition of the developing fetus than is possible for an abdominal ultrasound prior to about 12 weeks.

    “than is possible for an abdominal ultrasound…” – see?

    So, are you too stupid to read simple English, or so dishonest you hope no one is going to read what you’re responding to and point out the bare-assed lie? Hell, the same information is alluded to in the main post!

  112. 112
    Emma says:

    @makewi: You’re one of those idiots who lost the dictionary page that includes “consent”, right?

  113. 113
    WereBear says:

    But delegates and governor’s staff were scheduled to meet Tuesday night to strike a compromise after learning that some ultrasounds could be more invasive than first thought, according to two officials who were aware of the meeting but not authorized to speak about it publicly. Many of the bill’s supporters were apparently unaware of how invasive the procedure could be, one of the officials added.

    Well, they are either lying or stupid; and it could be both!

  114. 114
    Emma says:

    Ah. Never mind. I should have known BJers would kick you into next week.

  115. 115
    Mayken says:

    It’s actually worse than that, it leads to this:
    http://drjengunter.wordpress.c.....-abortion/
    “The wages of sin is death.” They really believe that.
    These dirty old men just want women to pay with pain and/or death for the sin of exercising their sexuality. Or not being strong enough – physically or emotionally – to fight off rape or coercion.

  116. 116
    Ecks says:

    so today we learned that requiring people to have access to healthcare (so they can get treatment if they get seriously and expensively sick) is exactly the same thing as forcing people to undergo whatever random medical procedures the state government feels that they should undergo.

    You know the difference between your doctor telling you to have a procedure and your local legislator? The one of them is an expert in medicine, and is sworn to make you better. The other of them is sworn to do whatever the hell he likes so long as he keeps 20-30% of the population happy enough to keep voting for him (figuring only half the population votes in the first place).


    we really need to stop feeding this troll don’t we.

  117. 117
    PurpleGirl says:

    @makewi:

    Nope. The web site has

    * have a physical exam — which may include an ultrasound

    Please remember that if you have access to the web and can find information, then any other reader of this blog has the web and can find the information.

  118. 118
    MCA1 says:

    I heard a Planned Parenthood rep or someone else in the public health sphere on the radio the other day, saying that it’s been extensively studied, and showing women the ultrasound printouts when they come in to get an abortion changes their minds about whether to get the abortion or not ZERO % of the time. So, in addition to all the sheer meanspiritedness and invasiveness and pure lunacy that is this piece of legislation, it has the added benefit of being totally ineffective at reaching the teahadist’s actual goal, which is of course dissuading women from getting abortions.

    Which is why they leave this mandated procedure unpaid for. They’re hoping insurance companies don’t pay for it (and undoubtedly exerting whatever influence they can to persuade them not to), to economically force their morality on women who can’t afford otherwise.

  119. 119
    chopper says:

    @PurpleGirl:

    yes, “may”. as in “an ultrasound is not a requirement, or a medical necessity for an abortion”. yet the VA GOP has decided it should be treated as one.

    what reason, outside of slut-shaming, does the VA GOP have for creating a legal requirement that this be done when the people who actually perform abortions say it may only be needed in some cases?

  120. 120
    chopper says:

    @MCA1:

    they also want to make it as uncomfortable and shaming as possible. okay, we can’t legally stop you, but we do require that you let us shove this up your hoo-hah for no valid reason and you have to sit back and take it, you slut.

  121. 121
    Brachiator says:

    @chopper:

    what reason, outside of slut-shaming, does the VA GOP have for creating a legal requirement that this be done when the people who actually perform abortions say it may only be needed in some cases?

    What do doctors know? It’s not like medical school and science are, you know, objective standards.

  122. 122
    MazeDancer says:

    Trans vaginal ultrasound is a cancer screening. That’s what it’s used for – to get as close as possible to any malignant areas inside the body, in a woman’s organs.

    It can only be performed if the woman has a full bladder. So you have to sit in the waiting room really, really, really wanting to go to the bathroom. But what you have to do is wait. And go into a room to find out if maybe you have cancer.

    Or, in Virginia, to suffer invasion that no Constitution that was part of the founding of this nation should ever allow.

  123. 123
    Mnemosyne says:

    @makewi:

    When planned parenthood does it – it’s for medical reasons, but when the state requires the same thing it’s for punishment purposes even when they say it’s for medical reasons.

    Please post the medical qualifications of each of the sponsors of this bill. They must all be medical doctors if they’re requiring a medical procedure, right? After all, the person at Planned Parenthood who advises an ultrasound before the abortion is a medical doctor, so all of the legislators who wrote this bill must be equally qualified, right?

    Though the fact that you think that being a doctor doesn’t require any special knowledge or training about, like, medicine, so any Joe on the street can decide what medical treatment a patient needs explains a whole lot about you.

  124. 124
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Brachiator:

    What do doctors know? It’s not like medical school and science are, you know, objective standards.

    Exactly. In makewi’s world, chemotherapy drugs for cancer should be available over the counter, because it’s not like it takes any special knowledge to know what the dosage should be or what the best one is for your particular tumor. What do doctors know about medicine, anyway? A rugged individualist like makewi removes her own appendix rather than relying on “medicine” or “anesthesia,” thankyouverymuch.

  125. 125
    VividBlueDotty says:

    I have been hoping that some of the men involved in these recent assaults on women’s reproductive rights have come home to a modern-day Lysistrata declaration from their wives.

    Maybe that explains McDonnell’s turnaround.

  126. 126
    slag says:

    Leave it to conservatives to translate opposition of this bill into “Liebruls oppose ultrasounds!” I think we need a new bumper sticker:

    My aborted fetus is smarter than your Republican representative!

  127. 127

    […] John Cole. February 23, 2012 | Posted by: Frank | Posted in: Life under the Regency, Republican Lies | Bookmark this post QOTD » […]

  128. 128
    lorimakesquilts says:

    @Lee: @MazeDancer: Not that I’m defending this obscene piece of legislation but transvaginal ultrasounds are used for pregnancies. I had more than one. Each and every one sucked. Imagine a large dildo repeatedly jammed up against your cervix while the doctor is trying to turn the thing sideways to find the zygote, and you desperately have to pee because you have to have a full bladder for the thing to work. This is punishment, plain and simple.

  129. 129
    dr. luba says:

    @debbie: “It seems to me that, if the doctor maneuvers the probe the way they did for me, there could be a risk of the egg/embryo detaching.”

    Lots of medical procedures are uncomfortable (and I’ve been at the receiving end of enough of them). But you go through them because you need to. And you CONSENT to them–that is the key.

    And no, there is no risk of detachment. Those eggs and embryos are pretty damned tenacious. If they weren’t women wouldn’t need abortions to terminate a pregnancy.

  130. 130
    dr. luba says:

    @lorimakesquilts: “@Lee: @MazeDancer: Not that I’m defending this obscene piece of legislation but transvaginal ultrasounds are used for pregnancies. I had more than one. Each and every one sucked. Imagine a large dildo repeatedly jammed up against your cervix while the doctor is trying to turn the thing sideways to find the zygote, and you desperately have to pee because you have to have a full bladder for the thing to work. This is punishment, plain and simple.”

    Ultrasound have many uses. Transvaginal ultrasound lets the probe get much closer to the uterus/tubes/ovaries than a transabdominal one does. It provides more detailed views than the abdominal one does in all patients, especially in obese individuals. It is the ultrasound of choice in very early pregnancy, and for many gynecologic problems.

    The Virginia statute requires the sort of detail that only a transvaginal ultrasound would normally allow, as it is meant to be used in early pregnancy. It is only later in pregnancy, when the uterus is larger and in the abdomen, that good detail can be seen with a transabdominal ultrasound.

  131. 131
    brantl says:

    @makewi: Hey, Makewi, your source of birth control should be blowing yourself. And all procedures that are optional are optional, aren’t they, dumbshit?

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