Ron Paul, Abortion, and Honest Rape™

You need to watch Ron Paul answer a question about his views on rape, abortion, and reproductive rights:

“If it’s an honest rape,” Paul replied, “that individual should go immediately to the emergency room, I would give them a shot of estrogen.” He claimed, however, that if a woman is “seven months pregnant” and says that she was raped, “It’s a little bit of a different story.”

Apparently there’s something called Honest Rape™ and that is something different than Dishonest Rape™:

(video after jump)

Pepaw is off his rocker, but he’s “anti-war” so let’s keep talking about how awesome he is.  It’s important to the political discourse.

[via Raw Story]

[cross-posted-ish at ABLC]






83 replies
  1. 1

    Hey, Grandpa, here’s an idea: Keep abortion legal, then you won’t have to engage in this type of pedantry.

  2. 2
    Spaghetti Lee says:

    I…what?

    You know, I think the stupidest thing is that he thinks there’s just hordes of women out there who would actually do that, wait til they’re seven months along and then go get a ‘bortion, just because they love stealing taxpayer money so much. Women, right? If it ain’t chocolate and ice cream, it’s abortions.

    Christ, what a twit.

  3. 3
    bloodstar says:

    I suppose it’s just too easy to be outraged at the phrase honest rape than to be outraged at the actual substance.

    It should be blindingly obvious that Ron Paul was thinking that someone who is really raped should be allowed to have an abortion.

    His logic fails. Because first, how can you tell if someone is telling the truth about rape, I mean, are you going to have some sort of citizens panel that will determine if someone was really raped?

    Second, who cares about the circumstances of the pregnancy, particularly in the first trimester, if someone wants to end the pregnancy, they should be able to end it. No questions asked.

    And ABL, shame on you for intentionally minimizing the danger and risk of people claiming to be raped when they weren’t. Look back in History, and think of how many people were *lynched* because some one claimed they were raped.

  4. 4
    greenergood says:

    yet another reason to wish that evolution would’ve allowed human males to get pregnant …

  5. 5
    Soonergrunt says:

    Don’t forget the siren song of legal pot from this jerkass.

  6. 6
    R-Jud says:

    @Spaghetti Lee:

    Women, right? If it ain’t chocolate and ice cream, it’s abortions.

    Don’t forget shoes! With the money I saved not raising all those babies I murdered, I can get a pair of REAL Jimmy Choos! Tee-hee!

  7. 7
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Soonergrunt:
    Beat me to it :)

  8. 8
    Brutusettu says:

    At least he’s not advocating that if an engaged woman gets raped in a city and doesn’t cry out, that the rape victim needs stoned to death. That’s a plus.

  9. 9

    there. are. no. words.

    but since when has that stopped me or anyone else around ‘ere. i have to wonder what color the criminal code is in wrong pall’s world. i mean is honest rape a misdemeanor? if you raped someone under false pretenses, like you meant to pick their pocket and one thing led to another, something like that?

  10. 10
    Cacti says:

    When Keebler says “honest rape” what he means is forcible rape.

    If it’s statutory rape, then you’re a little trollop who should live with the consequences.

  11. 11
    ABL says:

    And ABL, shame on you for intentionally minimizing the danger and risk of people claiming to be raped when they weren’t. Look back in History, and think of how many people were lynched because some one claimed they were raped.

    oh fer crissakes.

  12. 12
    matt says:

    ignorant question here: why an estrogen shot?

  13. 13
    Sapient says:

    @matt: Maybe it works like Plan B?

  14. 14
    wasabi gasp says:

    there. are. no. words.

    Sure there are, and bloodstar even strung them all together.

  15. 15
    Brian R. says:

    @matt:

    ignorant question here: why an estrogen shot?

    It inoculates against the Acquired Federal Reserve Syndrome.

  16. 16
    tom says:

    @bloodstar: You’re an idiot. Go fuck yourself.

  17. 17

    @bloodstar:

    And ABL, shame on you for intentionally minimizing the danger and risk of people claiming to be raped when they weren’t. Look back in History, and think of how many people were lynched because some one claimed they were raped.

    No one is saying we should punish people because of accusations of rape alone, without evidence.

    What we are saying is that anyone [probably female] who complains of rape is entitled to medical care and prophylactic measures against pregnancy and disease. This is totally separate from crime and punishment.

    Let me assure you that I believe that half of all bad people are female. I’m not saying that women are all innocent. I am saying that they should get the medical care they need when they need it.

  18. 18
    madameovary says:

    Paul means that if a woman from HIS family is raped, it’s real.
    If anyone else is raped…it’s probably not real.

  19. 19

    I wrote about this today as well.

    At its core what this is about is rolling the clock back and re-litigating an argument they long ago lost: that certain people get to decide whether a woman was really raped, that certain rapes are awful and other rapes are OK. Say, a white man raping a black woman: well, not so bad as the other way around. Either way, it’s not the woman who determines whether she was sufficiently raped.

    We’ve already had these discussions in this country and we’ve already decided. There have been numerous Lifetime movies and Academy Award-winning performances and reams of articles in Marie Claire and Cosmo about this topic. We’ve decided that “no means no,” we’re all told this. Ron Paul is 76 years old and graduated from medical school in 1957 and therefore is of a completely different generation on these topics.

    And here’s the thing: it doesn’t matter! It doesn’t. Because this argument has already been won. And pharmaceutical companies now have invented the Plan B pill so a woman can decide for herself, she doesn’t need the gatekeeper of an ER doctor who graduated from medical school in 1957 and thinks he’s entitled to weigh in on the decision. Those days are over.

    People like Ron Paul are old men shouting at clouds. It’s too late. The argument has been won, and your side lost. For further proof, the marketplace your side claims to worship has created the product. What further proof do you need that your side lost?

  20. 20
    AA+ Bonds says:

    In related primary news, Kornacki at Salon.com on Romney, Gingrich, Nevada, and C.R.E.A.M.:

    Far more ominous is a New York Times report that Sheldon Adelson, the 78-year-old casino magnate who has directed $10 million to a pro-Gingrich Super PAC since the Iowa caucuses, now recognizes that Romney is likely to win the nomination and has signaled his willingness to ultimately back him. According to the Times:
    __

    Several people who have spoken with Mr. Adelson over the past two weeks said he would most likely continue to help the [Super PAC] as long as Mr. Gingrich remained in the race. But, they said, he is concerned that additional deep-pocketed donors have not joined him. And, they said, his affection for and loyalty to Mr. Gingrich, who met with him here on Friday, have not blinded him to the reality that the nominating contest is tilting in Mr. Romney’s favor.

  21. 21
    AA+ Bonds says:

    In related primary news, Kornacki at Salon.com on Romney, Gingrich, Nevada, and C.R.E.A.M.:

    Far more ominous is a New York Times report that Sheldon Adelson, the 78-year-old c*s*no magnate who has directed $10 million to a pro-Gingrich Super PAC since the Iowa caucuses, now recognizes that Romney is likely to win the nomination and has signaled his willingness to ultimately back him. According to the Times:
    __

    Several people who have spoken with Mr. Adelson over the past two weeks said he would most likely continue to help the [Super PAC] as long as Mr. Gingrich remained in the race. But, they said, he is concerned that additional deep-pocketed donors have not joined him. And, they said, his affection for and loyalty to Mr. Gingrich, who met with him here on Friday, have not blinded him to the reality that the nominating contest is tilting in Mr. Romney’s favor.

  22. 22
    RedKitten says:

    Jaysus wept. How many women do Paul and other no-choicers think are going along in their pregnancies, doing their thing, and then suddenly, in the third trimester, saying, “Takie-backsies!”?

  23. 23
    Baud says:

    @efgoldman:

    I know you have to write about something on Super Bowl Sunday, and I know that Paul pisses you off every time he opens his mouth. But he is no more relevant to national presidential politics than Harold Stassen or Lyndon LaRouche.

    I think much of the continued interest in Paul is based on the fact that, before he proved himself to be a electoral loser (again), there were too many so-called liberals who were Paul-curious.

  24. 24
    Citizen_X says:

    Example #356,238: When someone says, “I’m a Libertarian” these days, what they mean is “I’m an authoritarian Christian-Right asshole.”

  25. 25
    matt says:

    @Sapient: Just looked it up. Apparently this was a method of emergency contraception. Before the 1980s, that is.

  26. 26
    AA+ Bonds says:

    I’d also like to say that I am glad ABL is back because I was pretty :( that she left right before Greenwald made an ass out of all his defenders with that “I <3 Nazis" shit

    If Greenwald wants to play enemy of my enemy I can more than oblige

  27. 27
    AA+ Bonds says:

    @Baud:

    I think much of the continued interest in Paul is based on the fact that, before he proved himself to be a electoral loser (again), there were too many so-called liberals who were Paul-curious.

    I’ll go one further – there is a persistent subsection of Americans who are left sometimes, libertarian other times, because they are really:

    THE SUPPLEMENT CREW

    They’re the people who buy (and sell!) those holistic medicine caplets that contain 1/1,000,000,000th of, like, dog dandruff and the rest is glycerin and water

    They are stupid iconoclasts with no real political thoughts in their heads, just “FIGHT THE POWER”, and they loathe real action by groups of people – they love lost causes

    They are conspiracy theorists, 9/11 Truthers, and they are the sort of people who see “WHY CANT GOVERNMENT BE A FAMILY BUDGET WHERE NO ONE USES CREDIT OR LOANS” graphics on Facebook and repost them and never ever think to question whether that makes any sense (because they also repost stuff like GOVERNMENT FLUORIDE PROGRAM DESIGNED TO HURT BLACKS, etc.)

    They clapped for Ron Paul in 2008 and then voted for Obama since he was an outsider, and they will canvass for Ron Paul this year and probably stay the fuck home in the general, unless Paul mounts a third-party campaign

    They are a cult but they are a cult that voted for the Democrats in 2008 and they are “swing voters” and I know a few of them personally

  28. 28
    Lolis says:

    @bloodstar:

    I love it when trolls attack from left and right in the same post.

    ABL’s take is right on. I work with someone who is a fanatical Ron Paul fan and who was also raped. I am not going to send this to her though because I don’t want bring up any unpleasant memories for her. I am disgusted enough for both of us.

  29. 29
    Lolis says:

    @matt:

    Sounds like Ron Paul has likely performed what many righties would consider an abortion. I imagine back in the day they gave estrogen shots before Plan B was around.

  30. 30
    Baud says:

    GOLD! WEED! ESTROGEN! VOTE RON PAUL!

    @AA+ Bonds:

    I know a few of them personally

    The only Ron Paul fans I see are on the Internet. One of the many benefits of not having friends IRL.

  31. 31
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @R-Jud: How about McQueen’s skull clutch? To prove my heathen bona fides.

  32. 32
    Polar Bear Squares says:

    So, uh, you can’t be seven months pregnant and still be raped? WTF-ever.

    I really get the feeling these dudes live in a bubble and so many people kiss their ass they absolutely have no idea how fucking awful they sound.

    I also like how a shot of estrogen solves any trauma suffered from a rape. Preciate that, Ron. Lovely human being he is. Really.

  33. 33
    GregB says:

    Can we call it Abe Lincoln Rape?

  34. 34

    @Baud:

    The only Ron Paul fans I see are on the Internet. One of the many benefits of not having friends IRL.

    LOL LOL LOL

  35. 35
    Comrade Mary says:

    As I said in an earlier thread: note that the woman who was “honestly raped” must get a shot of estrogen instead of a handful of birth control pills, which is the modern approach to emergency contraception in the first 72 hours. A little pain and punishment with your treatment, madam?

    And sure, the shot used to be the older treatment before Plan B. So Paul’s choice of words means that he’s really not keeping up with modern medicine all that well, or it was an honest slip of memory (I think they give shots for that now), or he thinks a little extra jab will make raped women take their treatment more seriously.

  36. 36
    I_D_Inuse says:

    @Linda Featheringill:

    You appear, in this post, not to be very familiar with Jim Crow and its ongoing and very much alive legacy in Ron Paul’s world are you?

  37. 37
    Amir Khalid says:

    By “honest rape”, does Dr Paul mean what Whoopi Goldberg called “rape rape”? It was a stupid distinction coming from her, and it’s just as stupid coming from him.

    @RedKitten:
    What you said.

  38. 38

    @Baud:

    The only Ron Paul fans I see are on the Internet. One of the many benefits of not having friends IRL.

    I saw quite a few of them in Florida last week.

    The Brazilian tourists who were there looked a lot better.

  39. 39

    Another reason to care is that, admittedly it’s a very long shot, he could be the nominee or wind up on the ticket or even be a part of the winner’s Administration. Not to mention that I believe that he’s really angling for a real opportunity to make the Republican Party into his own image. He could one way or another, influence people who could wield power later on.

    HIs opinions could wind up as a position on a party plank, or influencing younger officials.

  40. 40
    R-Jud says:

    @Citizen_X:

    When someone says, “I’m a Libertarian” these days, what they mean is “I’m an authoritarian Christian-Right asshole.a Republican who smokes pot.”

    Fixed.

    @schrodinger’s cat: Fierce.

  41. 41
    Comrade Mary says:

    @I_D_Inuse: Jesus Christos, you Dr. Paul apologists take the fucking cake. You are going WAY off topic here and playing victim by accusing critics of either implicitly supporting lynching or being completely unaware of them.

    Nice derail, now fuck off.

  42. 42
    Mark S. says:

    I wonder how a rape/in*est exception would work. I doubt wingnuts would be okay with just going by a woman’s say-so that she had been raped. Does she have to file a criminal complaint? Get a judicial bypass?

    The rape exception is a cop-out for Broders and Bobos to stake out what they think is reasonable ground but it would be completely unworkable.

  43. 43
    Jewish Steel says:

    @AA+ Bonds: At least half of the musicians I know fall into one of these categories. Clowns.

  44. 44
    ABL 2.0 says:

    @Southern Beale: if you want to really have your mind blown, check out this argument. According to random Ronulan (and many like it), if you’re unsuccessful in fighting off your rapist, then you’re consenting to the rape.

    I mean — what the???? these people are fucking crazy.

  45. 45
    Lojasmo says:

    @matt:

    Because, although Paul is a board certified obstetrician, he is a fucking idiot, like bloodstar (or whatever)

    Fucking morons.

  46. 46
    I_D_Inuse says:

    @Comrade Mary:
    Are you reading challenged? I am saying Ron Paul is a pure ass racist.

  47. 47
    Peter says:

    @AA+ Bonds: WHOA hold on, what? I completely missed this.

  48. 48
    WereBear says:

    I think they let Paul do this to undercut the true anti-war and anti-drug-war movements.

  49. 49
    Rita R. says:

    @RedKitten:

    Well, no women they know of course. Not their wives, daughters, sisters, mothers, or any good God-fearing Republican Tea Partying women.

    But those OTHER women? Especially those women of duskier complexions and more liberal beliefs? Well, they’re all whores who love nothing better than a good abortion — the later in the pregnancy the better. They also want young girls to get the HPV vaccine so they can freely screw, screw, screw their way through middle school and high school, using abortion as birth control along the way.

    Don’t you know that women are slutty slutty slut sluts who can’t be trusted to be in charge of their own sexuality and fertility and who, if allowed, would kill all their innocent unborn babies in the womb? They must ask for permission to f*ck and not be allowed the means to prevent unwanted pregnancy or disease if they don’t.

    Thank God “libertarian” Ron Paul and his forced birth compadres are here to explain it all to Americans. And by Americans, I mean white men, who really should be the only ones allowed to vote.

  50. 50
    nastybrutishntall says:

    @Jewish Steel: I know, right? OBAMA KANABIS KKK HITLER! BRADLEY MANNING! DRONZZZZZZZZZZ!

    If we reimagine these dumbots as 40’s Communists-for-free-love carping about FDR and his use of violence — VIOLENCE I SAY! — against the honest proletariat of Germany (“Hitler FDR ther all teh same LOLZ!1!”) in his quest for imperial conquest, and then doing the same song-and-dance to defend Stalin in the 50’s, all this becomes so mundane.

    As it was, so will it be.

  51. 51
    YellowJournalism says:

    Honest Rape, Violent Rape,Real Rape, Rape Rape…it all comes down to “you better have had the shit beat out of you” and “pictures or it didn’t happen.”

  52. 52

    @nastybrutishntall:

    If we reimagine these dumbots as 40’s Communists-for-free-love carping about FDR and his use of violence—VIOLENCE I SAY!—against the honest proletariat of Germany (“Hitler FDR ther all teh same LOLZ“) in his quest for imperial conquest, and then doing the same song-and-dance to defend Stalin in the 50’s, all this becomes so mundane.

    Like the Zinn acolytes who like “FDR bad for going to war in 1941,” but forget that, pages earlier, Zinn wrote, “FDR bad for not going to war when the Japanese invaded Manchuria.”

  53. 53
    Comrade Mary says:

    @I_D_Inuse: Not reading challenged, but on a hair-trigger, I guess. Sorry for misinterpreting you.

  54. 54
    I_D_Inuse says:

    @Comrade Mary:

    I understand, takes all I have not to commit murder while living in my neighborhood in Dallas TX.

  55. 55
    Ben Cisco says:

    “If it’s an honest rape,” Paul replied, “that individual should go immediately to the emergency room, I would give them a shot of estrogen.”

    What, no leeches?

  56. 56
    Will says:

    As odious as Paul’s ideas about “honest rape” are, I have to admit I found his honesty refreshing in that interview. Unlike his GOP brethren, he was at least willing to admit that life does not really begin at conception, that no one really has any direct knowledge of what is going on inside immediately following intercourse. Sure, Morgan followed up and got Paul to say “oh yeah, it begins at conception”, but clearly Paul doesn’t really believe that, judging by his earlier, detailed remarks.

  57. 57
    Dia says:

    @Sapient:
    Except it doesn’t seem to help the boys Sandusky violated.
    Probably won’t help Bubba’s cellmate in prison.

  58. 58
    Ben Cisco says:

    I have to admit I found his honesty refreshing in that interview.

    Refreshing in the same sense one feels refreshed after a particularly bad bout of constipation has ended – you can tell by the smell that it’s over.

  59. 59
    Ben Cisco says:

    ABL, if I’ve not welcomed you back, please allow me to do so now. Keep doing what you do, you are appreciated.

  60. 60
    suzanne says:

    @bloodstar: Go die in a fire and stop hogging all my oxygen.

  61. 61
    Phoenician in a time of Romans says:

    Apparently there’s something called Honest Rape™ and that is something different than Dishonest Rape™:

    Oh, I’m sure Paul’s a far more subtle thinker than that. He probably doesn’t want women rewarded with free care for Fun Rape(tm), Deserved Rape(tm), or TooPoorToBeTakenSeriously Rape(tm) either.

  62. 62
    boss bitch says:

    @bloodstar:

    And ABL, shame on you for intentionally minimizing the danger and risk of people claiming to be raped when they weren’t. Look back in History, and think of how many people were lynched because some one claimed they were raped.

    Sat what? You wanna stack that up against the women who don’t report a rape for fear of not being believed by the police or loved ones? You wanna stack that up against the women who DID tell but their attacker is still at large?

  63. 63
    Amir Khalid says:

    @ABL 2.0:
    This vile “libertarian” position isn’t so far from that in some particularly benighted Muslim (I am ashamed to note) jurisdictions, where if a man is acquitted of rape (or, worse, even if he isn’t) the woman is thereby guilty of fornication. Yes, I am speaking of places that criminalize being a rape victim.

  64. 64
    boss bitch says:

    @Will:

    this better be major snark.

  65. 65
    Fiona Mackenzie says:

    First of all, this lying b’tard is playing the “3rd trimester” game, the completely and totally dishonest pretext that women go around aborting healthy 3rd trimester fetuses for convenience. I wouldn’t think anyone would be ignorant enough to swallow this, without even looking at the data, but then, the far right’s brain function seems prone to short circuits.

    Except for Rick Santorum’s wife, I probably can’t name two people who are publicly known to have had a 3rd trimester abortion.

  66. 66
    Fiona Mackenzie says:

    Yeah, well, you know, being lynched because of false claims of rape has always been almost entirely an excuse whipped up by males who can’t stand white women to be around black men who are more attractive than they are.

    In today’s world, getting a conviction for rape is almost an impossibility, unless the woman is badly beaten or slashed or somehow nearly murdered or actually killed. The claim that women go around making false rape claims and then courts convict people is a paranoid fantasy.

  67. 67
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @bloodstar:

    And ABL, shame on you for intentionally minimizing the danger and risk of people claiming to be raped when they weren’t.

    I don’t see where ABL said any such thing.

  68. 68
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Will:
    Odious views, when expressed with refreshing honesty, are not any less odious. And you have to wonder whether a crank like Ron Paul is admirably honest about his views, or merely oblivious to what other people think of them.

  69. 69
    Jenny says:

    OnlY Ron Paul has the courage to talk about “dishonest rape”

    /Glentard’d

  70. 70
    Jewish Steel says:

    @nastybrutishntall: Oh, man! I had such an interesting reply and FYWP ated it. You’ll have to trust me, cuz I can’t rightly remember it now.

  71. 71

    […] via { 0 comments } Metavirus filed this under: Abortion, Republicans, Ron Paul  […]

  72. 72
    Jeremy says:

    Shorter Will: Ron Paul’s views are odious but I like him because he’s principled.

  73. 73
    Mark S. says:

    @Jenny:

    I don’t see how any honest progressive could not support Ron Paul. They must really like dead Muslim children.

  74. 74
    Librarian says:

    Is that anything like the distinction that George Washington Plunkett made between “honest graft” and “dishonest graft”?

  75. 75
    El Tiburon says:

    Pepaw is off his rocker, but he’s “anti-war” so let’s keep talking about how awesome he is

    Just can’t fucking help it, can you. This is your main problem amongst many. You must always be looking to twist the shiv when not even necessary.

    My fault, though. I shoulda known better than to read onward.

  76. 76
  77. 77
    kay says:

    My son was palling around with Paulites, but he’s moved on, and he’s back voting for Obama.
    I told him he has to do 1 hour of Obama canvassing for each email he sent me about Ron Obama, so he owes like 100 hours.
    Call it community service:)
    It won’t matter, because he’s in Illinois, but its the principle of the thing.

  78. 78
    Narcissus says:

    Pepaw really is off his rocker. If we can somehow get people to start calling Ron Paul Pepaw I’ll die happy.

  79. 79
    rootless_e says:

    @El Tiburon: ABL lacks RESPECT and HUMILITY in the face of the awesome RIGHTEOUSNESS of the ELECT. But, really, many of us do – dumbass.

  80. 80
    Will says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    “Odious views, when expressed with refreshing honesty, are not any less odious.”

    I agree.

    “And you have to wonder whether a crank like Ron Paul is admirably honest about his views, or merely oblivious to what other people think of them.”

    I don’t believe there is an effective difference between the two here.

  81. 81
    Will says:

    @Jeremy:

    “Shorter Will: Ron Paul’s views are odious but I like him because he’s principled.”

    That’s stupid. I don’t like Ron Paul and never said I did. Nor did I say that I thought he was “principled”. I’m not a Ron Paul supporter, just to get that out of the way. I’m about as big an Obot as you’ll find in this country.

    I simply was surprised and found refreshing his candor on the conception issue. You won’t see any other GOP candidates go anywhere near that.

  82. 82

    […] (typeof(addthis_share) == "undefined"){ addthis_share = [];}Kindly old Ron Paul has some, ah, thoughts about abortion and something called “honest rape” in which reprehensible moral […]

  83. 83
    Binky the Bear says:

    It’s a politically clever way of diverting attention from the fact that Obama is simply continuing the Bush policies of diminished civil rights at home and a policy of outright murder by drone overseas, and there is no political alternative to these policies available to voters except Kucinich, a co-opted Democratic midget weirdo, and Ron Paul a co-opted Republican midget weirdo.

    Is there anyone who can get behind the Bill of Rights, enforcement of the rule of law, consent by the governed and hey let’s try not to just kill people just this time?

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